Hello Mike test one two I
Hear you loud and clear. Hello everybody. Welcome to 79th DC roundtable
Lots of ups and downs mostly downs
Haven't been accustomed to so much down and red candles in the last few months
But yeah, you had to go through these pullbacks are
Very natural in a bear market, especially in crypto. It's
It's the very natural to have like where well, it's not natural
But it happens in crypto to have like 30% pullbacks
During the up only period so yeah, it can be it can be a little bit difficult for people are just
starting out in the space or is their first bull market or something like that and
It's it can often be like kind of daunting and oh my god, I'm poor again, you know
While waiting and Jonas Jonas start with some media while we let some people flow in us. Yeah. Yeah, sure
I'm gonna I'm gonna put up a tune and
Well, we wait for people to flowing
Now when I talk to God, I don't understand he said sit by me and I'll be your God in hand
Don't ask me what I think of you
See what is here we have penny bags as a speaker we have the Gaussian ghosts and Gaussian sneak
Is here in the speakers as well
Yeah, it's been doing really well
YouTube you should be you should check it out
His educational videos about everything that's going on dote chain
we don't have a lot of you to put it that do that and I think he's
hitting a great niche and
As dote chain becomes more popular. So will he so welcome him and we have penny and Jack, of course was usually on the
Main account and myself. I'm on the main account today
How is everybody doing on this 79?
Don't change a roundtable
Little bit of a stabilizing in the Bitcoin price here
We've had like, you know, many many I guess weeks almost of up only and it was starting to scare me a bit
If I'm honest, so it was gonna get to a million dollars before the Harvins
So the fact that it's cooled off slightly is really good
I don't want to get to that supply shock moment this early
I don't think we all want we all want to enjoy this run and have it last for quite a while
so yeah, I know some LDA execs and just you know, smart people that we've been talking or like kind of like
consensus between a lot of
What I think is kind of some of the smarter money is we don't want to go up too fast
You go up too fast. You don't build a base and it could come crashing down hard
I think it's much better for us to start building some support structures and bases and you know fall back kind of points
You know, so I'm actually like oddly when I saw, you know
When I woke up in the morning and saw prices were down quite a bit. I was like, okay cool
We really do need this. It's it's it's a little scary when you've been in this industry long enough
Like too big of price growth actually kind of starts to scare you, you know
Yeah, because we've all seen it crashing it down once it you know
It breaks off the top and it continues going up. There's no
support levels for the price everybody was just buying on the way up and once it starts crashing down all the stop losses get
Activated everybody that's shorting will get to their shorts filled
It just goes down really quickly and the issue with Bitcoin only going up this
Far and this fast is that there's no time for the rest of the market to adapt
There's no time for dominance to to flip over to two altcoins a little bit so that the industry can breathe
It's Bitcoin only which is understandable with the ETFs and everything and the institutions
Buying Bitcoin and mass in the last what is it now two months three months?
But yeah, there's no time in this
When it when it the momentum of Bitcoin is so so strong
there's no time for for all points to breathe and to catch up with it and
We need these pullbacks. Although, you know, you see that bit when Bitcoin goes down altcoins lose much more
But then they have time to regain that that momentum and they usually
Outperform it percentage-wise
Due to the you know, huge market cap
There's more leeway and more upside potential for for smaller projects to grow in in value then then for Bitcoin is
You know, it's not going to do a 1000 X overnight. Whereas some smaller projects might in the bull run
Ivan, what do you think? What do you think?
So besides all those I and I think you know as much as I've never really like been sure that that would always happen
But in all my my cycles and this is my third full cycle
So I went, you know 2015 I got in in the bear then 2017 bull
18 through 20. So okay, so I went yeah bear bull bear bull bear and now into bull
It always does seem to do this and I always think like it's not always gonna do this and we shouldn't just always think it's
Gonna but you know, maybe I'm I'm wrong
I maybe it'll just always do this where Bitcoin runs and then once Bitcoin cools off
Then, you know aetherium and blue chips start running and then then the all start, you know hundred X thing
So yeah, I mean do we think this will always happen this way? I'm unsure
But it does seem like that is always kind of I think it's such an ingrained thing into people's minds that it becomes a self-fulfilling
Prophecy. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's how a market work markets work, you know, like
It's often a self-fulfilling prophecy because a lot of people watch for example, technical analysis
A lot of people watch the same indicators and act at the same time
Following these indicators and it's like mass
Hive mind that just goes into that this self-fulfilling prophecy
However, it's also interesting that we also say this time is different and every every cycle every bull market. We say this time is different
2017 this time was different because there was ICOs and aetherium
2021 it was different because of you know memes NFTs
Defy it was different now. It's different because
institutional money is coming into
Into Bitcoin and probably
Ethereum eventually through
We also say it's different but the general
Way the market acts and people react to it. It's kind of the same every time
Same thing first Bitcoin than alts 2021 same thing Bitcoin than alts. We cannot really say about
2014 bull market because there weren't that many
Alt coins at that time. There were like a handful of really good ones
And the rest was like most of them were copies of Bitcoin and forks, etc
but for the last two bullish cycles, yeah that the market has
Just don't fall into thinking it will be the same make me I don't
Yeah, I don't mind the the blue chip that all it's all that stuff
But what I what I really don't like is the four-year cycles
I don't I don't know how a healthy it is. I think I
Think but rather than having boom bus cycles. There are healthy aspects of a boom bus cycle, right?
Because during the bus you weed out all the crap
But the reason a lot of the crap is there in the first place is because the booms are too hard
So I wouldn't much rather see instead of you know
500% gains it with a you know
Then an 80% drop or whatever or like a thousand percent gains with 80% drop and then thousand percent gains four years later with the 80%
Drop it would be healthier if we could just build slowly and steadily and I actually think the cycles
Well, they were really healthy for adoption early on because it generated this big hype waves
I think we've got enough of the hype wave the world knows about blockchain. They know about doze
They know about Bitcoin eats et cetera
Polygon and I think it would be healthier for us to just have like more like how the internet has just had this like
Since the 2000 and like two three years, you know has had just consistent growth with like punctuated pullbacks
Which are good to clear things out, but I think it'll be so much healthier
I hope we could get out of this cycle mentality because it's just not healthy to have to like companies have to do weird stuff to
during the bear markets and you got to lay off people and you know, or like luckily LDA didn't lay anyone off didn't even
LDAs are incubation marketing firm incubated those chain and quicks off and polygon and a bunch of others
But you know, we we made it a point not to lay anyone off
And we the way we did that was we and not cut anyone's pay. They're the only people's pay we cut was
Myself the CEO and all the execs and then we left all everybody else's pay we left intact
But it's just it's frustrating right like these bull bear markets are I
Don't think it's the healthiest way for us to build. I hope I hope the cycles deteriorate over time and mathematically they should
Because we're putting zero inflation that having shouldn't matter
Yeah, but but still still I think we're very early still
Considering the amount of people of the world population that actually
Holds crypto whether it's Bitcoin or something else is very small still so
Com put out a report. I saw that said
580 million crypto holders in the world. I don't know if that's accurate and you know, they're bullish and biased
But that was interesting to see I don't know what that means though. Is that including like on sexes?
Is that including just self custody? Is that including because do you include ETFs in that? I think you do
But what do you think Ivan?
That doesn't seem accurate to me to be honest. That's a that's a huge number
That would mean like 25% of the population has crypto. I highly doubt it
No, five hundred and eighty million out of the whole world. No, that's less than 10%
So I think that the more accurate
Analysis was like something like two and a half three percent
Instead of more like this is like what you're telling me is
Just shy of ten percent. It's a lot. I think it's it's very optimistic to think that that that it's that much
As well like who like out of those that have crypto and inverted commas on the census
Then like how will that translate to people that actually use crypto or most of these people that just have a kind base account and hold
A few coins, you know, there's a big different track between being on chain and access
Rather than just having an app and having some representation of a token
Yeah, and they could have multiple wallets too. So it all depends on how they obtain the data like what's
Personally have at least 15 wallets with crypto on them on different blockchains on the same blockchains
I have maybe five different Bitcoin wallets
I mean if they count the number of wallets they haven't asked me personally how many wallets I have to count me in that
5500 million as one person so they're counting the wallets. It's
The it does go both ways though, right? The statistic is pretty skewed. I think yeah for sure
And if you're doing Bitcoin the right way and dogecoin the right way
You never use the same wallet more than once your wallets are supposed to use new UT XOs. So
and there may be dust left in some that could be counted or not or whatever but
There I mean, there's some good stats on like wallets that hold over a certain amount, but it goes both ways, too
So yes you or I like I know I for sure have at least 50 wallets over the last 10 years
You know that have stuff in them on lots of chains
not including like dust but you know say 50 actual wallets, so
Yeah, I may have 50 wallets, but then there are also maybe 50 people who are on Binance
Right, so it goes both ways because they're they don't show any on chain metric
So I don't know how I don't know how they're counting
I will investigate as we go through this show. I'll try to find some more numbers on that
It seems reasonable to me 7% of the world or so
I mean, I think the estimates in the US which are and this is like from Coinbase and Robin Hood and Venmo and PayPal and
Cash app and all these I think the estimate I saw there was that it was something like 20
To 30 percent of the US have crypto now
That's there's a lot of speculation and a lot of that is a lot of that's doge by the way a big percent of
That is just people that bought doge during the last run, but um
It's actually a huge percent of it
It's kind of crazy doge really is a gateway drug for crypto for people
I mean look at so many people here got into d5 through doge and doge chain
But yeah, I'll look into the number some more
I'm interested actually it doesn't seem that crazy to me to think that 7% of the world has some form of crypto
Even if that's ETFs or coinbase or whatever, but all I think I think that's too high. I think like under 2%
statistic that you're giving me because
Everywhere I've read the last like research analysis and everything was like two and a half percent tops something like that
Yeah, and that doesn't account for like deviation or duplicates or like botting
Like you know and people like airdrop farmers like who create like hundred wallets, you know or more like
But as I said, it goes the other way too because you could have a hundred million people on on
Binance and that's only shown as one wallet on chain because it's the Binance wallet or they have like seven wallets or something
You know for a hundred million users, so it goes both. I guess they're counting
I guess they're they're counting the number of users because those are like public numbers or at least semi
public the numbers of the the the users on on centralized exchanges and
even if you take out the the bottom 100 exchanges and you take
Exchanges like the top 50
The numbers of the number of users there should be pretty easily obtainable. I think
All I know is and you might still have in the same actually way you said earlier both of you guys
You might have multiple Binance accounts, right for different things or whatever or you might have that's that's becoming much more
Difficult to be honest because there's KYC everywhere now. So
You can't really have multiple accounts for a single person is buying it used to be easy everywhere
I think Binance is full KYC in all countries now, right? I think so. Yeah, so
Cook coin as well gate has become full KLC as well
The only exchange that I have used
Lately that's still not fully KYC is Mexico, but they have instead instead
Putting up KYC. They just restricted certain countries. I think
So, yeah, Ethereum ETFs a lot of people are very very bullish on these
Well, whether they're ETH maxis or just altcoin maxis. They say that the potential of ETH
ETFs might be even higher than those for Bitcoin
Line of thought is that they're correlating this with the last bull market where ETH like
Overperformed Bitcoin by maybe one and a half X or something like that
yeah, a lot of people are are hoping that this will be like the
The the catalyst for for the the altcoin boom market, which will be in May now
There are some issues and they're not
They're not 100 100% dialed in some
In the US for example are pressuring the SEC and Gary Gantzler not to prove any other
Because of you know, the same old rhetoric. It's too volatile
It's the space is rife with fraud and scams, etc. Etc. So we might see a bit of a pushback before
Ethereum ETFs are actually
Allowed and accepted by the SEC
Which means for example, let's say may
Is the first wave that gets pushed back to let's say July
And that gets pushed back again until August and that gives us pretty much
what we all expect the bull market to last and to really pick up like
2024 it might be like that. How anyone is arguing
Okay, maybe I'm being too bold in what I'm saying here, but I
Don't see how each should get an ETF before Doge
No, fundraise Doge had no team tokens. No foundation. No, nothing. It's clearly completely decentralized. I
Don't see how why eat his second on the list
General adoption justice, but the number about two spot in in market cap
Traded volume, etc. It's it's just the most interesting asset after Bitcoin
For for you know institutional investors, maybe that isn't the big argument that like these other ones could be securities
Whether it is a security go ahead Jack just say me out here. So
In terms of it's like origin stories and like general properties
It might be true that I'm
My book by the way, or can people hear me? Sorry? Okay great. The interface is a bit strange
Alright, so yeah, right. So in terms of its fundamental properties, I think doge
Probably could fit the criteria
But there's a couple of things first of all to get an ETF is a really costly process and somebody has to do it
Somebody has to sponsor and go through the process and get in it
And so when you've got these big firms and not only just somebody because like for example
You could say well the doge community could pull resources and hire a lawyer or whatever and they could but it really needs
to be somebody with a track record of getting these things done because
Really the SEC isn't out to approve like small potatoes ETF
They want like the big players because it's not just
They basically want to deal with a few large actors in the space
So that they're easier to bring them all to the table and regulate them and so like if and the problem with that is with doge
Specifically is when JP Morgan and you know
These big kind of like black rock and fidelity began is looking at you know
Where they can because they don't really it might not even be that they believe in Bitcoin or aetherium to any degree
They just think that it's going to be a widely traded product. And so that ETF will generate a lot of revenue
As they pick up some money from the fees right every time there's a transaction with these yeah
And so they're looking at it from the point of view of what you know, they're fairly serious stratify
client, what did they want to invest in or what would they trade the most and
The likelihood of them trading a meme coin is really low
The like look maybe personally or for fun, but the likelihood of you know, like a pension fund
Buy an immune coin is like basically non-existent. So they'll do it with
You know aetherium because there's a belief that aetherium's got great underlying technology that it's you know
like all these things that it's trying to be like the world computer and then also
You know the smart contract layer and all this stuff. And so there's a real belief there institutionally that aetherium is going to be
That player or something like aetherium
And so that's the main reason why it won't happen is not because it can't but more likely just because it's it's not
Going to be popular among stratify investors. So no one will push it to happen if you know me
That doesn't mean that a community effort can't succeed in the future though, so if there's anybody there who
Desire to throw like, you know hundreds of millions of dollars that making this happen
And you know, you know, you can pull the money and you can get a lawyer who's well-versed in securities
I mean it's possible. It's definitely possible
So it's like it could be the could doge community or it could be it could just be the the houses that want to sell
This thing so even if it was the doge community though, it's like them
Which platform does it trade on so like, you know BlackRock Fidelity Vanguard
They all have their own stocks and shares platforms right where you can allocate for their sponsored ETFs
And so it's difficult to know who would work with the doge community to do that
I mean, it's all I'm saying guys is it's possible. It's just unlikely
I love that we have such smart people on this space and like we're in my mind. I'm just thinking oh, well
It's like super decentralized. It's a commodity. It should be just a clear like this is easy
Just approve them and they'll be smaller companies that will want to do it
But at the end of the day, the reality is you're right Jack
I mean if you look at the market cap of doge of at only 24 billion, you know
The reason BlackRock did the Bitcoin ETF and Fidelity is because they think there's huge amounts of inflow that could come into it
Even if they get a small percent of Bitcoin, which they're already at 15 billion and just in just so actually all the Bitcoin ETFs
All combined are larger than all of doge
So I guess doge even though it's number nine on coin market cap is relatively small and even if it seems like a clear win
Decentralization and fair launch and that it's clearly not a security
Whereas ethos still in question as it could be a security. I don't think it is. I think that's silly
It's stupid if you eat is not a security but Gensler won't acknowledge and they won't give a clear answer on that yet
And partially because it had the token sale and stuff
But yeah great points and that's why I love having a bunch of smart people on the stage where we could bounce ideas off
Each other because it makes sense. Yeah, is BlackRock gonna go for you know, those only has 25 billion in its whole market cap
You know, it's not just the market cap. It's the optics
You know BlackRock as a you know serious trade fight organization
Listing and a meme coin ETF, you know, people are already wary of Bitcoin ETFs
They're not 100 100% mean I don't know in the finite. We were kind of seeing some of these
Jesus my good rug. Can you hear me?
Somebody trying to call me great
Can you hear us I can hear you know, all right. No, somebody's calling me and I was rugged my mic
So so yeah, we've got um, I mean we've got a billionaire like we've got a long we've got Twitter
We've got like buy your dough go buy your Tesla with doge
I mean, ah and I've seen a lot of these uh hedge fun money people
Starting to play with mean coins. I mean you've got a got bit hedge fund that is backing mean coins now
Don't know. It might be closer than you think buddy. Like honestly
Like there's what's up David, by the way, good to have you bro
This is what I was gonna say as well. Is that like, you know, you know, maybe
Doge's decentralization is actually its benefit and strength, right? Like
that means that you know, either a trad five platform or
centralized exchange or even a Elon
They'd be even more kind of incentivized to be the first movers to to actually put in the ETF
Application for something as decentralized as those right? They'd be happy to do it. Especially if they had like they're making fees
So like this is this is an offer
I mean we've got the Doge one satellite
We've got I mean, I don't know
There's a lot of hilarity that may end up happening in the future
Well, and also like, you know when we're talking about institutions back in the ETF and doing the legal side
Which is like really important and there are now fairly big web 3 institutions
like you mentioned some of the market makers the big headphones like got bit and so on but this there's others and
It's not outside the realm of possibility that one of those guys will try and bring like what would be good is if they did
A meme index so like this is my personal opinion because meme coins are super risky, right?
So like if you had, you know a top 10 like in the same way that they have the Dow Jones industrial average
But it was like, you know all the S&P could have like, you know
The meme index and then that'd be like the top 10 means of that season
In a basket, but yeah, I mean someone someone will probably do it eventually. It's where the things have happened. I
Want to see more on chain ETFs, by the way, we got mine your biz Seth. Hey, what's up?
Hey, so y'all y'all talked about memes and I think you said the word mean coin three times and I had to appear
That's uh, just part of my contract. So hey, I don't control these things
Something something like that. I thought it was like it was like evil motherfucker that only jumps in to talk when it's convenient
No, something you said something three times. I
Yeah, I that are David's that something three times but hey David good good to hear your voice guy
I haven't I haven't I haven't heard your voice since we were since we were having shisha in in Florida, but oh, yeah
Yeah, but uh, yeah man very good times but uh, no the the the the sort of the meme coin mania
That's happening right now
If we could have every bull run kick off with meme coins sort of being leaving the charge like please it can I be part
Of the program now the social program how we see a capital flow in these markets
I literally just came here to make that comment
I didn't want me I want memes to to be the the new harbinger of a bull run and then and then the last
For gains to flow into would that be amazing you get a double top
But it's at the beginning of the bull run and then we see capital outflows into Bitcoin
And we see you go to Altcoin season and NFTs and stuff and then we get it back and meme coins again
Anybody else just me double tip
That's what we were talking about last time on the last faces last week is that the dynamics have changed and
what we're seeing here is that
So meme coins are picking up the base first instead of just Bitcoin there's
Can you hear me guys? I mean, I'm sorry
Think I think something happened with my connection. I don't know
So yeah, and and the last of course the last wave
Will always be the the outflow into meme coins because once Bitcoin and and the blue chip
Altcoins get tired a little bit. They
Kind of finished their their potential run and upside they're still the memes that can do a 100 1000 X
Yeah, it's it's going to be interesting
But whether it's going to play the same way on in each bull cycle
I guess we'll see in four years again, even though we don't like those four years cycle, but I guess we're still on that
Yeah, and I think there's for this for this run. Also, and I apologize if this is a hand-raising space
I'll I'll be I'll be a brief here but
But as far as they're being sort of like an institutional entry
But yeah, no need to raise your hands guys. Yeah, you're good. Awesome
I just didn't want to break protocol or be rude, right?
But as far as they're being yeah kind of a different movement of capital this time around
I think David had the nail on the head as far as I've seen
Institutional money in meme coins and the way that we didn't before Pepe kind of like really proved the concept
In that it's like oh, yeah capital
Institutional capital can definitely find incredible alpha if this is done, right?
It's like any other asset we've launched in this ecosystem with one key difference
Retail actually kind of gives a shit because they're fun. They don't suck. So like so it's one of the best plays they've done
I mean, yes, Bitcoin is not a meme at this point Bitcoin
I can tell you working in tech Bitcoin was a meme in 2015
100% of me we absolutely made fun of it internally at Microsoft, which was stupid
But um, but like now you got these institutions just saying like, you know, this is make make a make a cartoon picture
But you know, maybe let's just print money out of thin air, dude
Where has this been all my life like everybody who manages money wants to be able to do magic internet money?
Yeah, anyway, that was my piece I
Think I I can't hear rock anymore Gaussian snake you have your hand. No, I'm just not you're just not used to it
I'm here guys. Can you hear me? Okay?
Yeah, awesome. Yeah, I just wanted to respond about kind of what you guys were talking about
I posted in the chat a chart of
Total three minus stable coins divided by Bitcoin. I don't know if you can see it in the chat or not
But I want you to take a look at that and tell me that does not look freakin bullish
It looks like it printed like pretty much a triple bottom
What does that tell you how far down how far where are we going? I see a lot of calm bar down
It's probably gonna be near the bottom
Now in the comments as a speaker you can actually post stuff oh
My in the jumbotron, but that's fine. Let me find it. Yeah
You're you're talking short term on the BTC like triple bottom. Oh man
technical analysis I used to do this like a lot in the in the last couple of cycles
But I just transferred into more of an investing type now
I don't really look at charts anymore on the short in the short time frames because
This is a week in so I wouldn't really consider it short term. I guess you call it more medium term
But what does this mean? So basically total three, you know is the entire altcoin market minus theorem in Bitcoin, right?
I think thanks for posting that on the jumbotron because I don't know how to do that. But um, so
Yeah, there's a lot to unpack here. Let me just try to make it kind of kind of simple
So what you're seeing is altcoin strength against it. That's what you're seeing and
If you look at the chart, you'll notice, you know, of course
You'll probably have to click on it to see the entire picture that in late 2020 or in early 2023
The value of altcoins against Bitcoin just absolutely tanked
Like like this is what we're seeing here, you know, cuz what do we care about with our altcoins?
We care that they outperform Bitcoin, right? They outperform the US dollar. That's great
but we want to see them having relative strength against Bitcoin and aetherium and
Like that what you're seeing what you're seeing in green and red. That's the Gaussian channel or the gap Nate as I like to call it and
When you when you see it turn red like that, that's it's a lagging indicator that kind of gives you an idea
That overall prevailing market momentum has been very bearish and it's concave down
Almost like a hill shape indicating extreme bearishness as we were heading into, you know
July and and so forth and around July we hit our first bottom our late June
2023 I'd say more close to late June and then we got a nice bounce out of that
but then we had another bottom sort of towards the
August I can't really tell just looking at this right now
I think maybe around September timeline and then most recently we hit another bottom
The Gaussian channel though has started to inflect and it's looking a little bit concave up
So typically when this happens, you see it you see some kind of
You can ignore the little little blue dots Dave, can you
so like the little blue dots you can ignore that was a parabolic SAR indicator I had on and I forgot to turn off but
What this looks like to me and you know a technical analysis
It's it's really the only tool that we have besides fundamental and you know
Pumplimental analysis like list like what's going on in the hype sphere like our things being hyped up
But it looks to me that that all coins are gearing up and getting ready to outperform
Bitcoin in a big way. That's what I'm seeing from this chart. I
Could be wrong. We could fall off a cliff again
But after seeing that massive capitulation that we had in early 2023 heading into
June of 2023, which I would kind of refer to as a final altcoin reckoning
It seems to me like all coins have been holding their own against Bitcoin much better than they have in the past
And you know, I think there's good reasons for that. Like if you want to like think from a market psychology point of view
Think of like what all coins are now compared to what they used to be in
Previous cycles, they were kind of a joke
If you go all the way back to what we have barbecue coin
The altcoins themselves kind of started out as memes right, you know dogecoin being a hard fork of like coin
Was not recognized as a hard fork of like coin
Thought it was as just a simple meme even though dogecoin was a lot more than that
It was a payment system, right? So I feel like now we're in a space where you've got, you know, things like I
Do the web three spaces like every night with Carla and j5 and we talked a lot about you know companies like gala
Like who was talking about gala last bullet run now. They're doing film like film three
They're doing you know still doing games are doing music
You've got decentralization making its permeating its way throughout all these these major companies and the altcoin space is just so much more
Serious of a space and I feel like, you know, maybe I sound a little too bullish
But I am so bullish on all coins this bull run. I think that this is kind of our dot-com moment
Internet companies had back in the late 90s and I think the there's gonna be a lot more
Quote unquote blue chips. I know I consider polygon a blue chip
Those chain I think's gonna be a blue chip like these layer twos Manta
So on and so forth like how are they just gonna dissolve and go to nothing, you know, yes, there'll be a bear market
Yes, I'm sure it'll be brutal. But I
See that we're we're having like a Renaissance right now in crypto. We're in the middle of it's hard to see it
When you're going through it, but I think it's reflected in the charts
I think you can see that that triple bottom is one of the most bullish signs. You can possibly have in technical analysis
Just like a triple top is which is kind of a unicorn in a way hardly ever
I don't know that we even have many cases of it in existence
It's usually invalidated but would be the one of the most bearish signs you could see so
I'm expecting big big things from all coins in terms of outperformance against Bitcoin
That's just something I wanted to mention. I have other things I want to talk about but I'll just mention that for now
And by the way, I think you're totally right on the L2 thing and that's why you know
Those chain is becoming a you know, two L2 of E, but I think L2s are the new L1
I think L1s have stupid stupid valuations. I was talking about it in the last spaces. Yeah, like so
If you just look at revenue generating and like volume generation. So today quickswap has
Million in volume on just POS. It's also the number one decks on doe's chain
It's also the number index on manta number one decks on astar number one decks on immutable
Number one decks, you know POS is but like so just on POS it has 236 million in volume
Well, if you combine suey
Chronos mantle say Hedera Cardano
Tell us you combine all of those and it's only a hundred that's 189 million in volume across those are chains
One decks on a yeah application. I think these these L1s are vastly overvalued if a chain like look at Cardano
Cardano has 25 billion dollar market cap. No offense Cardano lovers like maybe someday it'll take off but
9 million a day in volume quickswap has
236 million. What is that? That's we have 24
What is that like 24 to 30 times or something the volume of all decks is all applications on Cardano combined
Just on quickswap those chain probably almost has as much volume as Cardano on some days
So Cardano has a 25 billion valuation. So I think a lot of these L1s are stupidly overvalued. It's a lot of marketing
It's a lot of influencer buy, you know deals. I think that I know of in the background
I'm sure, you know Seth would I don't know if you'll want to speak to this because a lot of days
Are you kidding rock I'm not I'm not suicidal and neither are you I know that has to be said out loud dude
Yeah, I think some of these chains like are just they've done really good with marketing like
Hedera four billion dollar
Evaluation with 11 million in volume say 2.3 billion valuation with 3 million a day in volume mantle 3 billion valuation
17 million in volume. That's a l2
Chronos l1 18 million in volume 3 billion dollar valuation
Suey 25 million a day in volume 2 billion valuation optimism
So like quickswap has more volume than optimism and Cardano combined and here's
It's got a 53 million market cap. And if you combine theirs, that's 30 billion
It's almost like a 500 a thousand times difference in market cap to volume. I don't understand it
I do think L2s are gonna be the new L1s
I think these stupid valuations of L1s will vanish into thin air for the most part
I'm not saying those chains in particular guys. Don't get mad at me. If you're holding those bags
I'm just saying L1s have stupidly high valuations and it's not gonna be about L1s anymore
It's gonna be about being attached to and I think it's gonna everything is gonna bit branch off of Bitcoin and aetherium
Yeah, I thought all smart contracts will go to aetherium
But now we're seeing a changing of the like kind of culture and I think Bitcoin will have a lot of it's a lot
Of smart contract stuff on its L2s, but it's between value storage smart contract settlement layers
It's Bitcoin in aetherium and that will be 95% of everything. I think moving forward
The tail end of that really fast and to just say it like so you and I were at the Bit Angels pitch event in
At East Denver, and I think we didn't talk to one of the one of the same projects there
I won't name names because we're not here to you know, promote anybody else
But like you're saying with Bitcoin and things being built on top of Bitcoin
Yeah, there's some stuff that's building being built natively on Bitcoin
One of the biggest this bull cycle one of them the biggest narratives has essentially been like oh, yeah
Well, let's let's build an EVM on top of Bitcoin right as an L2, right?
There's there's just as much value being derived from creating L2s natively on
On top of Bitcoin as being built that close to to aetherium
And the layer zero narrative is kind of it's kind of falling by the wayside
Right now in terms of being like a deployable narrative that a lot of groups are actively seeking out
Like layer zero is not the the narrative that I think that I think capital is looking for right now
But they're somehow okay with what you just said
L2s and all kinds of L2s that are a little bit closer to Bitcoin and a little bit closer to aetherium and a little
Bit closer to like just whatever a specific L1 a choice including Cardano, right?
Really pushing. I think they're at their midnight protocol, which I still don't fucking understand. I'm out of privacy
BitTorrent change I think what Binance what about Binance chain does Binance chain have no it does, right? Yep
Yeah, BNB. Yeah, they they just you know, they just copy past it optimism
Look, I think I'm not saying that like you can Bitcoin will have it all but I think you'll have most of it
I think I think Binance is here to stay Binance chain is here to stay
And if they but I think Binance chain will plug into ETH at some point through maybe polygons AG layer
And I think also there's up there's some other X factor variables and factors and stuff like doge
You know from speaking to the foundation and seeing what their roadmap is there
They want to move those to proof of stake and I don't know
You know if that'll work or if it's a good idea or not
But it's interesting and they said a big part of their goal is to have side chains as part of that narrative
so they want to make they want to move doge to proof of stake and then they want to have some infrastructure so that it's
easy for side chains and L2s to plug in including doge chain and you know
I'm talking directly to the foundation about this now
So they're they're finally like opening up their minds. I think to side chains and L2s it took Bitcoiners 15 years
But they're finally opening their minds
So doge could be a contender, but you know, I'm just gonna be honest
I don't think doge will be as big at all as aetherium or Bitcoin. I'm sorry
Maybe people won't like me saying that but it's just it's not as big as Bitcoin or for aetherium, right? Definitely not
Some people here may disagree with me and I'm sorry if I'm offending anyone
But well, let me air my grievances first and my grievance says first time because you have offended me rock in so many ways
But let me start with this. Let me start. Let me start with how you offended me with the doge clearly
Everybody loves doge and and part of the part of the the proof there is the Robin Hood effect, right?
I know you guys have talked about this in the space
This is this is your stock and trade is is the is the broader doge ecosystem
But but seeing the capital inflows from Robin Hood cannot be overstated fresh capital
Not just new wallets being provisioned on chain because as we all know that's another one of the hijinks
It's played in this industry not pointing fingers. It's just it's just part of the game
It's just it just is so you have to know and I mean and frankly if you're not cheating you're not trying when it comes to
Competition. So we know that everybody who wants to be relevant is working with market makers is working with some odd
Some degree of automation is working with protocols that show
We'll say higher than organic
Total volume on on certain chains and this is not me pointing fingers at any chain because it's just a primitive
It's just a part of the game that we play here. She's a part of the ecosystem
I think I think 95% of projects use like some kind of inorganic wash trading volume
Yes, exactly, right? So it's so it's across it's both to prop up price action
But it's also to prop up total daily active users and it's also to prop up total volume
And it's also in some cases with certain protocols to show the protocol dominance on a certain chain and brag about that
Because these are all these are all marketable talking points, right to say we made up
Whatever 15% or we made up 30% of network volume for you know for a month straight. It's awesome
I mean, it's a very awesome narrative very powerful, but you know because it's a powerful narrative
Everybody wants to be in that position to have those bragging rights
And so, you know again, if you're not cheating, you're not trying bag borrows deal do what it takes
It's a lot of fraud man. I will I don't I don't know
I don't agree with your if it's not if you're not cheating you're not trying now. It is difficult because I
I'm talking about baseball. I'm not talking about like I'm not talking about like, you know hockey where you could get punched in the face
If you foul somebody I'm talking about baseball stealing. I was just gonna say wait
Did you know what example I was gonna use? I was gonna say Major League Baseball. Wait, what are we on the same wavelength?
There's nothing here what I know man
So rock what I think what I think is happening is I'm building towards something where I'm where I think we are saying the same thing
Organics matter most right because they bring in the fresh capital. They bring in the fresh liquidity
They bring in the new one your baseball reference. How does that correlate now?
So how that how that correlates is that you still want to get people to show up to your game
So you have to have the most exciting games and let me move that like move that analogy just a little bit since
We're talking pro baseball. Hey Jose can say go
Juice a little bit. Yeah, just a little bit. Why cuz we want the game players to be bigger faster stronger. Wait, what?
Everybody wants the game to be bigger faster stronger
And then when they see that it's bigger faster stronger, then they say well me an organic consumer
I want to spend on the most exciting game what looks what appears to be the most exciting game that one
That's the one with that, you know with with Jose can say go at 21 fucking inch biceps
Right try like you don't need 21 inch bicep
You don't need to look like Arnold Schwarzenegger to hit a baseball
But we're gonna go see that game nine times out of ten and we're gonna spend on that game
And you know by the the cold root beer is a cold cold hot dog and and flat root beer
Right nine times out of ten on that game if that's who's playing in the arena
So people you know, we're pretty simple. It's just it's it's regular market psychology
What I'm suggesting is you still have to go to where there are cultural events that build a community
That's why there's such a the NFT people. They kind of had it right with community being the thing
As long as your community doesn't go broke and you're bringing in fresh capital
if you got the vibe if you got the bigger faster stronger game if you've got the spectacle if you've got the man in the
Arena giving his blood sweat and tears and I can say this as a member of the cool
Seeing that the founder went to a fighting event literally let himself get knocked out what happened to the chart it printed a 10x
Right after cuz he was the man in the arena. We want the spectacle
We want to believe we want to be drawn in and sometimes the big numbers help with that. That's all of a sin
Yeah, my kind of way of looking at it is and it's unfortunate
But like in Major League Baseball, you know
There were people using steroids and they had to crack down on it because while it was cool to see
You know can say go people just hitting these home runs out of the park all the time
Like, you know every game or whatever
It the problem is that people didn't want to use steroids
They couldn't compete and so you it became a thing where you had to use steroids or you just fall off
And so like that's kind of what happens in in crypto
And because a lot of exchanges they require either certain volumes either to get listed or to stay listed
And so people they resort to this wash trading now like lucky for us
And I could put my word on this quick swap
Doge chain as far as I've ever known and I'm pretty sure I mean, I think I I would hope I hope I would hear about it
But I we've never done anything like that and it's funny because when we've talked to some market makers, they're like, why aren't you doing this?
They're like everyone does this you need to do this and I just we will never do that
I think a lot of people doing that stuff are gonna go to jail probably like that's to me wash trading is fraud
Cuz like you're saying if you're not cheating you're not trying and everybody else is doing it
I don't care to me that's deceiving and fraud and and a lot of those people will probably end up in jail
Sure. Well, so let's let's let's talk about it in this way
So Lee talking about with those chain
If it's it's a if it's a derivative or an associated project with doge doge was the people's coin
As an alternative to like when it was not a pure hard fork. Yes
It was hard forked but there were plenty of primitives right about that blockchain that were changed significantly
Including the emission schedule and everything else right it up
I think originally it was there's a lot about that
That's suspect when when your founder is a is a is an outspoken self-proclaimed communist
There might be something to the tokenomics. It's a little different right from from other economic systems, right?
They that as a primitive they're building some things
communists like the work communists
Yeah, so before I get sued for defamation, please please somebody fact-check me there
But that's that's how I understand it is easy. He was actually openly
Openly profess to be a communist. I'm sorry a Marxist weird character
Yeah, yeah, so I'm sorry, but but yeah, so probably be a socialist Marxist. Maybe maybe not a communist
I may have misspoke in there, but but just to say it's going it's going to be a little bit different
Nothing right I think you're right too. I think you're right too. Thanks. Thanks for keeping me honest
So just just to say it's gonna be it's gonna be a different economic system there to your point
If doe's chain is like the people's chain if it's the people's mean if this is the legacy mean that brought us into
Everything we're seeing now with all the weird mania and the 10 x's and thousand x's and people hopeful to plant their flag and make
A home for their memes and make a home for their projects associated with such an awesome meme that gives you that halo effect
You need to have the people there you can't rely on anything less than having the people there with their capital and ideally right at size
Right in volume over time. You have to align yourself with cultural movements
That matter that people actually want to be a part of and we can't use the playbooks that work to blast cycle on the cycle before
You've been hearing from a lot of people. This might be the last cycle we get like this
So you have to be aligned with cultural movements that matter just in my opinion
Which by the way rock is what I it's what I'd sent to your DMS and and why I actually not in my way
To come to this space to to make sure that I talk up dose chain because I think it has that much potential
But but yeah, I think I think
You're involved in by the way, you feel free. I would love to because
No, I'd love to I'd love to because I want to get the memes there
I want to get I want to get things that matter like does chain there
So Texas Eclipse is happening in early April. It's very last-minute
It came to me though from a person who I sit on an advisory board with who who?
To ESPN super cool dude absolute love the guy so servant leader type guy and
He and his team they create
festivals in the style of Burning Man and
They they chase the solar eclipse around the world and they set up a festival very similar to it
But because of the the build-out they wind up having to do a really fancy build-out
So it's not cheap and they do charge admission and and everybody still pays it
But they still wind up having 55,000 plus attendees at every single event and we're doing a web 3 activation within there the last one
The team that that set it up our team they captured over 10,000 brand new wallets
From attendees who earn at least 50% above the median income for their market and we're doing that here in the United States
We anticipate bringing online
20 to 30,000 brand new wallets with people who are overqualified to be involved in crypto
Some of them may already be involved in crypto
But we're there helping them get their onboarding and helping them decide which projects and ecosystems to be involved in the big thing for me
Is I just want to see my friends there?
I just want to see people who who I know do good work there and who are involved in crypto and
and great education like the Gaussian snack and some of the some of the
Alpha that we're getting from him and like David airdrop who you know who understands how to build communities both bottom-up and top-down
So we're gonna be there for four days just outside of Austin, Texas
And then the eclipse will pass over us in the path of totality at an event
That's similar to Burning Man, but with a lot more resources and a lot more organization
but still tens of thousands of people who are interested in learning about all the stuff that we've been talking about and
And because of their life choices, they've managed to be in a position where they can put capital into our markets and into our project
So I'm excited about it for a few reasons, but the marketer in me is like not sleeping these days
I've been absolutely restless
From the passion of what we're gonna do there bringing new users into the ecosystem and fresh capital in the ecosystem
So, what is it it's like it's like a music festival rave Burning Man
Think of it is so think of it. That's I'm so glad I'm so glad you asked
It's Texas. So if you know, they're compassionate care laws. No, there's not gonna be like some open drug bazaar, dude
When they say don't mess with Texas, they're talking about state troopers
Not the state right itself like don't ever then Ken Bozak can can attest
You don't want to be that guy that gets caught with drugs in Texas. Your life will change forever
No, I know so I talked about the dinner after the bit angels thing he was helping to organize it
He so Ken's doing great, I think he's coming back and and yeah, so it was 2017 or 2018
He and I we met up at World Crypto Con in Las Vegas right after it happened
Yeah, so it was yeah, it was it was an interesting time
Yeah, yeah exactly so it was a Ross's mom was there
Lobbying with us, but he had just come from a flight where yeah
He was flying through DFW made the mistake of you know, he had a layover and he's like, you know
What I'm gonna go see the city a little bit. They were just waiting for him
they were like because they knew he was there they were just waiting for him to leave the airport and
You know because he was in transit back to his home market where he could possess certain things
Took one foot outside of the airport and they had him an abdomen right there and and stuck a charge to him
So he he kind of it's kind of persona non grata in Texas and has been for six years. I'm
Anybody knows him knows this. So this is a this is a thing
It was a tiny here's the thing possessions 9 10 to the law and possession in Texas means
Means 0.0, whatever grams of anything that they don't like there
So I think it was literally just weed
I think I think he even had a script for it back in his home market
So yeah, but it was never seen that guy without weed
He was smoking a wax pen inside of the eat Denver conference. He offered me a hit. I'm like, I'm all right, man
I'm working now. It's it's Denver man. They call it the mile high city for more than one reason
Yeah, I get it is legal there. Yeah
Yeah, so anyway, just just just to say this event though
It's not think think of it less like burning man
Think of so think of it more as as just a festival for the eclipse
That's being run by the people who put on all the infrastructure for burning man. So everything you would need their food running water
Clear really good high bandwidth internet. They've been doing this for years and they had one in 2017 in Oregon where they had over
55,000 people there now, they didn't have the web 3 programming attached to it yet that got integrated later on and that's why we were
That's what we're so hopeful. We're gonna be able to bring 20 to 30,000 brand new wallets online as part of the event
Activities that we're doing there think of them like games and puzzles right where if you want to go to certain events
You have to do certain things with your wallet
But they're they're made very simple because one of our partners hand builds an account abstraction wallet
That makes it simple and it's white labeled just for this event
So we're making this easy as possible for anyone to come online with a wallet
Export their keys and put them in a med mask
But first we get them using tools that they understand on day one as a beginner
So so it's pretty involved actually a lot of planning has gone into this
And we do have a track record of success at a previous event
But right now yeah, it's like what I'm focused on my part in it is a much smaller stage inside of it
We're we're all web 3 that's our only focus is web 3 and web 3 education
So for me the whole festival is you know through my lens
It's a web 3 festival because I'm because I'm catching as catch can with a larger, you know prospect pool of
55,000 plus people and I want them coming to our area which is gonna be the best area by the way
We have the the drone area light show. We have a dome by Incendia the people that make the giant
Performance domes at Burning Man that literally have a gas pyrotechnic system that lights itself on fire and then extinguishes itself again
We've got some pretty amazing stuff where we are
But we're only talking web 3 there and we're partnered with an impact an impacted charity
Called Joy's kitchen. If you know if you know that place, you know joy's kitchen from the Central Texas area and so they're
They they feed homeless and and and underprivileged families
So we've got a couple things going on there. So if you know, I mean you might be thinking oh, it's you know
Whatever you're trying to attract Silicon Valley execs out there to all like whatever snort MDMA and sit in a cuddle puddle for
Three days and single by eye. That's just not that's just not what we're doing there. It's a lot more web 3 focused
Damn that's what I was hoping for though
Just well, I mean, but the nice thing about that rock is it for guys like you we had that too
Because it is still bringing in you just have to know where to find it
Hey rock, can I can I address what you said earlier about the layer twos? Yeah, sure. Go ahead. I
Mean Bernie man sounds really cool, too
But okay, we can put those two together. Yeah, I was just I agree
I just wanted to say that I agree with your thesis that
Layer twos are the new layer ones and I do think that polygon is going to eat into layer ones in such a huge way
That a lot of chains like Solana won't see it coming. Polygon is gonna be number three behind aetherium
You heard it first for me. I've been saying that a lot
I wanted to share a few other things polygon has been my number three for like when people sorry to interrupt
But just when people ask me like what's safe to invest in I to be honest. I don't tell them doge
I tell them I will often mention doge later on in the conversation as like a fun one, you know, Elon's on board
But I don't think doge is like a safe one especially because they're not gonna be next to me later when I you know
Like they're gonna get pissed off if they buy the top or they sell or they panic and this and that
So like doge is super volatile
But like to me Bitcoin Ethan and polygon are just like blue chip throw them in a ball and hold it for 10 years
I think doge you definitely can do that too, but people play doge differently. So like to me that's through safest or yeah
I think you know and polygon with polygons EKVM ag layer
You know, you have true interoperability you have an increase in transactions being actually more efficient
How can you possibly go wrong with that? Like that just sounds like it'll blow salon out of the water. Thank God
Hey, sorry, sorry for the sorry for interruption I didn't I didn't want to do
I didn't want to do a Cuban goodbye and just leave for a pack of smokes rock. Thanks for having me on stage
Thanks for letting me talk a little bit at this event
I hope to see anybody who's you know, that's where that is their scene there
But but I'm excited my bags are packed for all the all the kind of cool stuff that that's Gaussian is talking about for
The altitude but thanks you guys
Seth guys if you want to go to that event or if you know, thanks for he can help with all that kind of stuff
But yeah, what I was saying is uh, I just think polygon is like the hidden
The hidden gem this cycle like I think everybody's fighting it right now saying oh the price isn't moving up or whatever
And it's like they forget that polygon ran late last cycle. It's probably gonna run a little bit late again this one
That's just how it goes. And if it hasn't truly run yet
so people are just so impatient in this space, but
Just you know, I've read in it 250 X last cycle. Oh, actually almost 300 I think
It's it's such an undervalue gem and does chain is gonna be running on top of the of the ZKVM
Using the CDK. So I mean like
Doge chain is polygon like in some ways. It's a more colorful of community focused, you know chain
But I also want it brings doge to poly on any
Doge is no one that is now plugged into
Ethereum or will be plugged into aetherium through doge chain
Exactly like like and and the Denkin upgrade is is pretty much a statement to layer 2 is like hey
You guys run the show now. So
But real briefly like I pinned some stuff up here that I wanted to talk about before I forget
I have three really comprehensive videos that I put together
That I pinned in the jumbotron for people to check out share whatever you want to do
They're all educational videos
With a little bit of shilling. So the the first one is is a video on doge knolls and Bitcoin ordinals
just kind of introduced people to the history of ordinals and what's going on with ordinals on doge on a
Doge coin and and Bitcoin but more emphasis on doge coin
Of course is there more fun on there and then the second video is as a comprehensive
Well, I don't remember the order I posted him
But there's a video on that quick swap that I did just a few days ago
And just talking about what an incredibly undervalued Dex that is and a steps and all of crypto
I mean, I I've used a lot of them and I love quick swap and I'm not just saying that cuz you're here rock
And it's just such a seamless
Cheap user experience like people say, you know people always bragging about Jupiter's like Jupiter is not a Dex guys
It's a hard fork of uniswap and it's it's 10,000 times better than uniswap
I I look at the chart for quick swap and I just am like blown away by how undervalued it is same thing with those chain
I did a video on that just a couple days ago to educate people on doge chain including doge tools
And and I also wanted to mention
Freaking Owen Hayes our little you know genius in the background
We just whitelisted US do out of the Nova Dow on quick swap. It's been whitelisted
It the US do pretty much function more or less as intended. And for those of you don't know you
The over hyper over collateralized stable coin you were talking to me about the other day over collateral. Yeah, it's a hyper collateral I stable coin
So I did a mathematical breakdown of it. In fact, I should probably post that one too in the jumbo truck
My entire YouTube is pretty much a polygon YouTube
with you know, Nova Dow doge chain and so on but
Is a hyper collateralized stable coin that's pegged to the value of doge coin in a very creative way
It's actually a piecewise for those of you math nerds like me. It's a piecewise linear defined function
So depending on what the price of doge coin is that'll determine
this the scaling multiple that
That the US do is is paid by and so the US do was funny because when it was in test net
It deep pegged to the upside
Though we have to like a dollar 50 at one point. It was like
Owen actually did mention that that was possible. He warned us not to do large. Yeah
Mints because it could yeah. Yeah
Yeah, I mean to be fair considering the like a bear market situation with stable coins for a while
It's really nice to have one that deep eggs in your favor
Exactly. Like we didn't have any massive deep eggs to the downside. It's got a fail safe for that
I think we went down to 97 cents or something like that briefly
But you know if it's a stable coin
It's it's not going to be at a dollar perfectly the entire time the idea is to get it as close to a dollar as
Run on it was very successful and it's been whitelisted on quick swap
You know, which is a huge thing because now doge chain has a native stable coin
And of course any chain can pick up this stable coin at any point that they want
But to see this on doge chain to have a hyper collateralized stable coin that addresses the shortcomings of piece of crap stable coins
like like UST from last cycle, we don't want to see another death spiral guys, so
I don't know. I looked at the math behind it kind of broke it down talked to Owen about it
And you know, there's more complicated ways you could you could have run the math, you know, you you could have done different
You know, it's a linear regression thing
You could have done quadratic regression stuff like that, but then you have the issue of cost
So for I think for what I think it's a lot more brilliant of an idea than people might give it credit for
And see how it functions, you know in in this coming next phase of our mania whenever that is
And and for you know, defy on doge chain and and and I don't like to see us do make us win other chains as well
So just a plug for that and a plug for Owen Hayes
How amazing is it guys like everybody like give yourselves all a pat on the back
We've been building this thing together for doge this doge utility layer
This smart contract layer this now and now and more importantly than ever a scaling layer for doge which wasn't really needed before
But now or with doge-in-alls clogging the chain
We actually do need scaling for doge now, it's being built into the doge foundation road map
This is not not us exactly, you know directly
But like, you know us and other L2s anyone who wants to build a sidechain or L2 for doge
We were the first and the and still the only successful doge L2 and I think only one at all
We have the first ever doge back stable coin built natively on doge chain guys
Like what do we do it like this is it's just crazy to be a part of this and you know
This movement is getting bigger
We get more and more projects and people reaching out to us all the time interested in building stuff on doge chain
Interested in doing doge-in-alls and then bringing them to doge chain and we'll give some updates on all that stuff here soon
But yeah, congrats everyone. This is a big day for all of us that you know
Working is intended. Yeah, and I asked Owen if he'd come to the spaces, but I don't know
he might be he might be sleeping or busy developing at the moment, but
Yeah, that guy's a genius like he I'm just so impressed with what he's done
But just in general for you know
The doge space as a whole just just the whole polygon slash doge ecosystem as a whole I know he's kind of the go-to
Yeah, like I've been you know, very immersed in that and I think I think it's just a matter of time guys
Like like retail hasn't shown up here in a big way yet
We know that dogecoin like Elon Musk recently said I put the full clip in my video
Doge coin is the people's coin. It's a community coin. It's not the venture capitalist coin
Like so many of these other piece of crap
Layer ones and layer twos
Sorry, but it bothers me. I can't stand those layer ones that are just all about
Hype and you know, they the VCs get in super early and they you know get their 10,000 X's at retails expense
You know, yes, it's player versus player, but they have an unfair advantage in the game
So I love what what you're doing here rock and what everybody else is doing here
For this space this interconnected world of polygon doge chain doge coin
Novodow quick swap. It's all interconnected. It's all beautiful and I love you know with I am max now coming on board
It's just great and I don't see any way that we're not gonna lead the charge in the bull market
There's just no way it's not gonna happen
Yeah, thanks for the good words. Yeah, me too. I agree with that especially with GKE VM
Soon for doge chain plus, you know dozens of other chains that will connect between each
With between each other and ethereum roll up on the ethereum
And asset composability will be a huge thing. So I
Guess everybody will will get their fair share of communities
But the thing is that we will be able to share these communities and liquidity between these communities across these chains and this
Interoperability will be insanely
Bullish for for the entire space. I can't I
Don't see it either way. Honestly, I just think exactly what you said
It's just a matter the one thing that that we don't really seem to do that other chains
I don't say we shouldn't we don't do it, but all these other chains like Celestia Solana
They're all focused on marketing. They're focused on hype. They know what pumpamentals are
They know how to get people in the space the magical airdrops, you know
Like that completely bashed on them or anything, but I'm not a fan of that personally
What you know what I love about polygons
Doge chain etc. Is that everything's grassroots and community driven? So if the marketing happens
I mean at least I can speak in the Nova Dow, you know people like me members of the Dow
We're the ones who do the marketing. I feel like doge chain is very similar
Like and I feel like well that marketing does need to be focused on though, right?
And I think that other chains do it better than we do and you know, that's and that's fine
Let them let them market themselves to death. But when when our tech comes out and blows them out of the freakin water
It'll kind of speak for itself. But yeah
I know that polygon hasn't been the best when it comes to marketing and naming, you know
Renaming themselves pol is probably not the best idea
But honestly just makes me love them that much more because I know they're hard at work in the background
Focusing on what's important focusing on making this space legitimate and not just a bunch of hot air like some of these other chains do
100% agree with that and you know
I'm on the same page with you guys and especially on the ag layer when we the more we talk about it the more excited we
Get right just that that liquid that acts of liquidity bringing it all together rolling it all up
It's like it's not getting the credit that it deserves but it soon will like you you and I both know it
Right you obviously are looking into the analytical side. I'm looking into the tech side
But either way, it's a win-win no matter what so it's gonna shine no matter what so I'm with you at number three
I think that's fun. I say number two
But hey what you know, I could dream. Oh
I'm down with number two for polygon. Hell. Yeah, that would be that would be a shock to me
But at the same time maybe you know, polygon is aetherium, right?
so there's a better version of it a much better version of it and I feel like Vitalik and
And and the theorem developers understand that or we wouldn't have the Duncan upgrade. So
Yeah, I just think we have to be patient
We just have to be a little bit patient and I tell my you know
I tell people in my telegram from my youtube channel guys like you're gonna make money in these product
Like I can't give financial advice, but you're gonna make money just be patient
Like what's the big deal if you got to wait around a few months or a year, you know, who cares?
Oh, no, you have more time to accumulate horrible
You know polygon is so massively undervalued as an entire ecosystem
And it's like what was polygon doing during the bear market?
Were they doing like manic airdrops and fluff fluff me sessions with kol's? No, they weren't doing that
They're building they were acquiring companies
Like I call them the google of crypto that's how I refer to polygon whenever i'm talking about like they're the google of crypto
You know, they're they're they're they're so freaking huge. You don't even know it yet
Yeah, and I think if they're the google of crypto
I think they're ag layer is the linux of cryptos since they've open sourced it completely
And that allows doge chain a lot of access
Yeah, I mean doge chain becoming a cdk gets access to over a hundred billion dollars of liquidity on ethereum
Guys we just need marketing at this point like and hey j5 what's up, by the way
What's going on rock? Hope you're doing good
Yeah, man, uh, go ahead. Gaussian continue on yeah
Oh, no. No, I was just saying we just need marketing
Like I think that's the one thing that the one piece that might be missing right now
Maybe we're just not ready yet to get everything out because I know uh, was it march 27th? Is that right rock?
That's the that's when zkvm, uh goes live
No, he's talking about the denkin upgrade is only live on polygon. I think in april I read. Oh, oh got it
Got it. Yeah. Yeah, I was just thinking it was like march. I remember seeing something about march 27th on valentine's day
Coming out from polygon themselves, but maybe I don't know much about that
But yeah, they just uh someone from polygon just said that on the last basis
Yeah, so I just feel like marketing at this point is is probably what what is needed
But I love the idea of organic community marketing
Just we need it, you know
Like people are sitting around like when are my bags going to pump like when is it going to be this price?
It's like get out there and do your own marketing
And that's what I mean to be fair it did go from like
70 cents to like a dollar 20 in the last like couple months. It's pretty nice pump. I would say
Is that a dollar 11 right now? Yeah, especially considering the huge market cap. It's hard to move that market cap
So well, and it also didn't lose a lot during the the bear market
It didn't it didn't drop as much as a lot of other things that dropped like 95 percent plus
Matic like held reasonably well, but I think so just knowing the the polygon team
They're definitely holding back on a lot of marketing airdrops stuff all this stuff until uh
They are they're tightening up still the zkvm zk rollups technology already
So like it was kind of crazy. We talked about on the last space
But just in the last week I noticed that the gas fees on zkvm dropped by like 90 or 95 percent
So we thought for sure that dankun was live and you know 4844 and put it in charting all this stuff was live
But apparently yeah, they tilled us on the space earlier today. No, it's actually not live on zkvm that flagship chain yet
The l2s like maybe astra amanta
Um, you know and doge chain when we go live
And uh x1 soon. So quick solve is number one on all those by the way
But um those could launch it like if gelato or caldera or gateway are these rasp providers? They if they offer that
Uh early on they can I think gelato said they are going to be offering that quickly
So like zkvm itself maybe isn't doing it, but the zkvm chains
These all these different l2s they can do it if they want
But it already dropped 95 percent the cast on zkvm
So that's crazy to think it's going to drop another maybe 90 95 99 percent people say it could like 60 x like
lower reduction in cost or and and increases in speed and things
So yeah, it's it's looking good. I mean
ethereum is pushing towards
Uh, like this roll up centric roadmap
They're calling it which is that they want to focus ethereum
Like what my prediction has been for years is the settlement layer and i've been saying that on this show actually
For a long time that it'll be a smart contract settlement layer. That's what blobs is that's what dankoon is
That's what like 4844 and proto dank sharding is is it's a shift
To like prioritizing or giving special treatment and a different type of transaction type
Um putting data on the chain and then there's all these things around it like that
You can put data on ethereum and then like I think it's I don't know the number of times someone mentioned
Maybe it's six months. But after some time then that that
Thing falls off of the chain and it's still it's just stored on the l2s now, but for like six months
It can be stored on ethereum
This brings down costs and stuff, but there's a bunch of a bunch of benefits to these blobs. It's a whole new type of
Uh transaction type specifically just for l2s, which we will utilize. Of course, we will be using blobs on with those chain
Um, you know when it goes live, I don't know if it'll be live the day it goes live
It probably will though and I and um, I guess we could talk a little bit about where doge chain is on all this
The updates so we we last week we went live with the public test net. We've got some people playing there
Um, which is great and then
We've been building the doge nals bridge
That's taking a lot longer than expected
We're getting to the point where it's we're getting so close to the next
That if we can't get the doge nals bridge done soon
We may just say let's not waste time
Making it for the legacy chain. Let's just make it for the
And uh, you know, this is up to the community so the community can discuss this and you know
We can talk about it on reddit and and but like that's what a lot of us are thinking now is maybe if this
Doge nals bridge is going to take a lot longer like if it's still going to take another month or two. I mean
Hopefully I I and we haven't put a firm date out, but I think soon we probably will
Affirm date on doge chain 2.0
I I I don't want to say a date because then we say dates and then you know developers are off and stuff
But there's big updates that have happened. I the update that just made the gas fees cheaper on zkbm
We were waiting for that that was supposed to happen in january got pushed to end of february along with that came
Custom gas token which is require. We need that like we can't go live without that because we have doge's gas
We don't want to use ethereum as gas
Um, that's not what this chain is about right?
So now custom gas is live has um is ben live now on test nets
For it, um, and we're going to integrate it into our test net now
and uh, no chains have deployed it yet, but custom gas is
Is now available in the main implementation for uh for cdk. So
Um, we're going to put it to test net first
See how it goes. You guys will see that go live hopefully soon
And that was a big that's a big deal
We really needed that because like we don't want to launch the chain if doge is not gas
Yeah, that's that's a big deal for us. So, um, that's that's where we're at. Um, we you'll start hearing a lot more
about projects, uh, you know signing up for we're going to put out uh, like a grant program and a
Set up the airdrop program for doge chain 2.0 soon. It'll be same. Uh
same token, um, you know, there may be some like technicalities with like, uh
Having like a version of the token on ethereum or on the on doge chain 2.0
But it there will be no change in tokenomics or anything like that
Um, unless the community wanted to vote for something like that, but I don't see why I don't see it being necessary
But uh, you know, all this is still flexible enough to the community for discussion and decision, uh, but yeah, um
We'll probably put out a grant like form
application soon for projects that want to come to doge chain 2.0 and uh, you know
With again with community voting and discussion, uh do a huge
Airdrop slash grants program slash points program slash volume incentives liquidity mining incentives
And really just try to blast the hell out of this thing when doge chain 2.0 goes live
And i'm i'm hoping we could do that in the
I don't want to say it exactly a time or anything, but in the coming months for sure soon
Really as soon as possible
Um, and like now that we're getting a lot of these updates that we were waiting on I think it's it's almost go time
Now it's a matter of getting a lot of projects signed up for grants
Um getting people to play with the test net
Please go use the test net launch your stuff on the test net
And then uh, yeah, like we could be off to the races soon
We needed to solve this doge nosed bridge and then
You know either the doge nosed bridge comes to legacy and doge chain 2.0
Or if if if doge chain 2.0 is ready sooner than later
Maybe we don't need the doge nosed bridge for legacy and we just launched the doge nosed bridge for the uh for doge chain 2.0
Doge chain legacy and doge chain zkvm will have uh, some type of interoperability between them
So regardless of where the the bridge goes
Available on both chains by the way. Finally, I can hear you rock after you reconnected
I was a very one-sided conversation
Before that I was just hearing one peep one one side of the people that were answering to you and then silence
So you really couldn't hear me I thought it was just
Then I just couldn't hear you at all when when you were speaking it was just complete silence
So as I was just waiting I didn't know how to mod or what to answer or anything
Regardless of of whether the bridge is on zkvm or legacy POS chain
It will be functional for both chains as long as the chain runs
Yeah, that's rock pretty something pretty
Clearly there for everybody to know where we stand on the roadmap and we'll be keeping you guys updated on on these things
Uh regularly in uh in the chat and uh on uh on twitter, etc
That's three. That's three big updates guys for us
I mean that's den kun which will apply to us and all of the 90 ip's that go with that
That's um, the new update that polygon pushed it changed, uh throughput and gas costs
And uh, and that's the custom gas token
Uh, uh use usability that's three big actually changes just in the last week since our last basis
So it's really exciting. I know, you know, everybody's anxious and they want to see this as soon as possible
And people are pushing and like hey, why does chain 2.0 hurry hurry?
But you know, we got to do it, right?
And I think you know the timing in the market and things couldn't be better hype is higher than ever and you know
with dojianals clogging, uh doge
Uh proof of work, man, we're gonna be the we're gonna be the release valve i'm i'm really excited
This is exactly what happened with polygon and ethereum and when polygon was under a penny and I was telling everyone
Trust me when ethereum gets clogged
That's our time to shine and now literally we're seeing doge get clogged and it's the same things happening now where i'm literally talking to
Some of core devs of doge and they're now opening their minds like okay, maybe doge chain can help doge scale
So it's really cool to see guys and and we just got to keep our heads down and you know
We don't want to fight any like, you know, doge maxis that don't like us. We got to just prove ourselves to him
That's it's our job to prove ourselves and and be diplomatic and respectful to them and just always keep proving value and bringing utilities to doge
in uh other news something uh
Quite interesting happened this week by the way in the in the blockchain space
speaking of maxis and bitcoin maxis and
Actually, the the judge said that quig right is not satoshi considering all the
false documentation and the falsifications that he provided I think it was uh about time that we
that we really had a clearance about this case and the
The grievance that he caused to a lot of people uh suing them left and right for uh,
Being the the creator of bitcoin where he clearly really wasn't
Uh, I know rock may might have some opinion on this
Regarding quig right and uh, I know that we we all waited
This uh, this should be over for for quite a while now. It has been dragging on for years. I think since uh
Since the last bull market if not longer, I mean he's had several cases now
He's sued a lot of people now people are suing him
Uh, and I mean I said from day one. I always thought he was not really satoshi
I thought he was a scammer and a con artist
And um, I had a it's crazy man. I had a lot of people around me
Especially in like 2017 18 a lot of like pretty pretty big people too who were saying oh, I don't know
I think it's him. I think it's him. I remember there were people saying he when he got his
Courier to deliver some private keys from the tulip truck. What whatever the hell that thing was
That you know bitcoin was gonna crash so much and I was just like, you know
It basically fuck you guys. It's stupid but
Uh, it never happened and he turned out, you know, many times to be proven his fake in this most recent trial
I I didn't follow it completely. I'm just bored of following this this loser, but it basically like
The judge caught him in lies. He had his wife doctoring like
doctoring like photoshopping emails and they caught them and like
He had to explain himself and he just looked so super stupid to everyone
I mean the guy is clearly a con artist
he's a liar and he was just trying to play off the fame of bitcoin and like do
This like total con scam like, you know
I'm satoshi so people should invest in things that i'm doing like what a what a piece of crap just just what a loser
Uh, and now that's that sums it up pretty well a loser. He's a loser
I mean for finally we have a judge that officially says it's funny
I saw I think it was peter mccormick who actually craig right sued peter. So peter does the what bitcoin did show great show
Um, I like peter. I I talked to him once in a while, but so
Peter got sued by craig because he said on one of his shows that craig was not satoshi and that he was a scammer
Basically what i'm saying now and so craig who I think is a lawyer
Has or has big legal team. I think he was a lawyer at one point in the uk
but uh, he sued him for defamation or something and I think he
But like it was like just because the judge was like, okay, technically maybe he
I think peter had to do an appeal to uh to reverse the judgment or something like that. I'm not
Lawsuit, but it was not good for peter that definitely
Well, but at the end of the day that the final ruling I believe
Was the judge like could see that craig was bullshit and that he didn't think he was actually satoshi
But he did deem that it was like maybe technically defamation
So I think what happened is he had to pay uh craig one dollar. I think the judge said, okay
Yeah, I guess it's defamation. But you know the punishment is pay him one dollar
So I think that's all that happened. That's that's what uh, you know judges do to
The judgment to the the pleading party but not really
The jury says that it's it's not really relevant and uh, that's the way to do it just one dollar
Now craig right cannot even publicly publicly declare he satoshi anymore
So the judge so peter. Yeah, so peter said
That he he made a tweet now after getting sued for saying stuff now. He made a tweet and said
Uh like hey everyone we're all satoshi and then he said like in parentheses
Except for craig, right because he's the only person in the world that has been legally deemed not satoshi
Well, if anything, it's so great I was gonna say well if anything, you know all this nonsense with craig, right
At least bring shines the light on bitcoin again, you know, I mean that's something good comes out of it
I guess it's such a waste of money dealing with that that guy
You know, what's that is? He's actually a really smart guy, too
But like I don't like scammers. I don't like liars
I don't like people who deceive people for their own well-being
And uh, that's that's what he is. He's a scammer and that's not to like say and you know, it's interesting
There's a lot of ice I even over time i've been getting to know more people in the bsv community and i'm not
Big fan. I don't like bitcoin cash
I was a big fighter in the in the block size wars against bitcoin cash and sv
But I don't have any problem with them or their community. There's some great minds. They're actually I mean, it's pretty interesting
A lot of the bitcoin ordinals people or actually they came from uh, bitcoin sv and bitcoin cash
And actually a lot of developers on doze chain even came from
What was it? Uh smart bch it was like a evm chain, but it got
Yeah, that's right there for the bridge but and a lot of them came here. I mean the thing is
A lot of these people were the more open-minded bitcoiners
Now I think they followed a false idol. I think craig is the con and a scammer and they followed the wrong guy
And I think roger also was like a trader to bitcoin in a lot of ways
But in but in many other ways the community were very open-minded and wanted to try to build things on bitcoin
And it was and this was actually I think a mistake of bitcoiners and the maxis
Is that anyone who wanted to build stuff on bitcoin? They got their hands slapped and like, you know
That's why I think rootstock didn't work. That's why colored coin didn't work. That's why vitalik left building bitcoin
Vitalik was building colored coin
Which was kind of like smart contracts and tokens on bitcoin
But the bitcoin community didn't really like it or want it or said it was scam stuff could be scammy
And so vitalik left and made ethereum
I mean look at we push people away a lot of the bsv people a lot of the bitcoin cash people
They were people who wanted to build stuff and didn't want to just sit around as you know, bitcoin pet rock gold
Whatever, which i'm a huge bitcoiner, but let's be real. It's kind of like, you know
It does have boomer call at ease, you know, but uh
A lot of these people that wanted to build cool stuff
They went over to bsv. They went over to bitcoin cash and they built stuff on
So they had a lot of experience building stuff on bitcoin whereas the bitcoiners didn't because they didn't like building stuff on bitcoin
Because they thought that made scams. So interestingly once ordinals came
And the the culture shift started to happen where bitcoiners were more open-minded to this stuff
Well, guess who had the most experience building on bitcoin?
It was the bsv years and it was the bitcoin smart bch guys
And so they were able to like I don't know the number but it's a very large percent a majority probably of ordinals projects
Bitcoin ordinals and now spilling over into dojianals were people from like bsv and bitcoin cash
It's a large amount of people. So it's interesting
This is why I try not to like badmouth communities even though I didn't like
You know craig wright and I I was a big fan of uh roger bear for years
Actually, I used to follow all of his his talks and work and i've worked with him on some stuff actually a long time ago
Like I didn't like, you know during the the I didn't like forking bitcoin that that was really bad for the community
And so that made me really not like roger
but the truth is like those are the more like
Innovative a lot of the innovative people were in those communities and so, you know
We have to keep an open mind and you know, they had their reasons for going that way
I think it was you know bsv and bitcoin cash, you know
They haven't succeeded, you know, because I don't think it's good to split the community
But you know, they are innovators and it's great to have them coming back to bitcoin to build stuff on bitcoin now
The people from bsv and all the people at bitcoin cash that tried to build on on
On bitcoin, they they created stacks. They created ordinals
Uh, not single-handedly, but they worked on on on different. Uh
Projects that that pushed I think I heard that is that true stacks was from um
Bsv bsv years. I think I heard
I think so as well. Yeah, i'm not 100 on it
I can check it out. It's like a multi-billion dollar bitcoin l2
Yeah, stacks is like the biggest one
It has a three point almost four billion market cap now 31
spot and uh, it reached it surpassed its all-time high just like bitcoin one of the
Rare old coins that have done that this cycle already four billion market cap
And I think it finally just surpassed quick swap in tvl
I think I think it just passed quick swap in tv. I think it's got like 160 million in tvl
Probably much less volume than quick swap, but cool to see them growing
Yeah, speaking of ordinals. I just posted um
Casey wrote armor's blog post about about creating ordinals back in 2022 and he actually does a really great job on his
Website he's a bit of an anarchist
Some strong opinions, but he's a really great job on his website
Of explaining the history of ordinals and kind of mentioning some of the stuff that you already mentioned rock
Um about how you know, uh ordinals could have been developed a long time ago like and there were many attempts to bring defi
Uh to bitcoin and other kinds of innovations exactly what you said. So I posted that there for anybody who's curious
It's crazy to think that bitcoiners, you're not okay. Look I get it
They the the big thing is like they didn't want people. I think the kind of nuanced mistake here was
We don't want to change the base layer and this is like my opinion has always been the same of this
But I think now people are realizing. Okay, cool. We don't have to change the base layer
Just build in higher layers the same thing we did with doge chain the same thing we did with polygon
These are like you build in layers so that you don't have to compromise the decentralization or the security of the l1
So I don't know why bitcoin like was kind of so against this for so long in a lot of way
I mean bitcoiners do want to do this, right?
But they're cool with lightning network. They're kind of cool with liquid and it's getting bigger now
But they were very against any like evm smart contract nft's tokens anything that had tokens
And I think that's a major failure the reason ethereum thrived so much and some of it was garbage and scams
But the the fact that people could launch a token raise money quickly for a project
Speculate on a project and then build millions of thousands of thousands of different projects raise money
Get money speculate have a vested interest. That is really important
You're not gonna like bitcoiners have this weird thing where they're like libertarians and i'm a libertarian and they're free market people
But then they don't want people to build a token on top of bitcoin because that must be a scam
Well, then how the fuck do you expect these teams to either raise money or to have like?
You know a token that can be used for utility and all the different things that come with that speculation
You know a lot of the speculation drives innovation
But if all the bitcoiners always say no, you can't have tokens because they're all scams
Well, then you're not going to get very many people building stuff
You need the tokens they have there are value to these tokens ethereum figured that out. That's why you've had an
cambrian explosion of protocols on ethereum and all the innovation happened on ethereum because people could launch a token and do an ico
And make money and that's actually a good thing when you want capitalism and innovation
You know capitalism to drive innovation
You know, what's funny too is like now that we have b5 being developed a lot of it has been scams
That's kind of the great irony
Uh, it's true, but but no it has some great gems in there. No, no
No, i'm not going to say that there's all scams
But I just think it's kind of it's kind of fun
It's not funny for the people who've lost money. I I remember putting a little bit of money into dova
I'm not sure if you've heard of that rock
Project a while ago, um a few months ago and got got kind of rugged on that but which one was that what chain?
Sorry, dov swab dova. Okay. No, I don't know
Yeah, just some chinese company that because I was I was like big on the on the multi-bit train in the beginning
You know brc20 erc20 bridge with the you know deeper. I looked into them. I was like, I don't know about this
But I think they're interesting. I think I don't know because i'm not one of our the devs
But I think our the dojanals bridge has a lot of aspects of that, but i'm not sure
Yeah, I mean it's a great idea. Um to have that kind of bridge but
Um, yeah, I mean i'm very bullish on ordinals. Don't get me wrong
It's just uh, I just think it's kind of funny to see yeah, there's gonna be scams everywhere
It was unavoidable. I actually didn't know that backstory that you told about uh, vitalik
I'm i'm I was actually ignorant to that. So it's kind of like would ethereum even exist if he got his way
Yeah, I worked. I worked with that the team that built colored coins. I worked with them for years lda incubated them
Um, not we didn't incubate colored coin. We incubated another company. Uh,
chromopolis, which we later rebranded acromia, which was mainly being used for like closed blockchains for government like
The swedish land registry and these kind of things. It was an interesting project
They were the ones that launched mines of delarnia and my neighbor alice these games. We also incubated those and uh
But we we left all those projects like four or five years ago, just because
To be honest, I didn't think they were uh
And I I feel bad saying this but I didn't think they were really going anywhere
Uh, even though I mean they're they have crazy market caps now and stuff and uh, but I just it's not
It wasn't that interesting to me. I wanted to build more in like ethereum and polygon
But yeah, we worked with them for a while
Yeah, vitalik worked on colored coins he I think he wrote the white paper or he helps with the white paper
So do you think ethereum would exist if he got his way?
If if bitcoiners would have embraced what he was doing more
No, the ethereum would not exist. I think I think he would have been on top of bitcoin. Could you imagine?
How different the space would what he's he's almost said as much
I mean, I don't know that i've heard him directly say that but he has said that he like, you know
I'm pretty sure he said that you know bitcoiners kind of pushed him out and pushed a lot of this stuff out
Because they just weren't that interested in it like, you know
You could in the metadata of bitcoin. It's very similar to ordinals, but like ordinals did it better
In the metadata of a bitcoin, you know of a satoshi you could attach you could basically
Put uh, like they were calling colors like that's why it's colored coins
But you could say maybe like you you could have a red coin and this red coin was used for whatever
It could be something like maybe a stable coin or something
Um, and so people try to do that. There was I think there was also there was master coin
I think which was doing something similar and then I think there was name coin was also something similar
man, my history i'm forgetting i'm getting older my memory's not as good but
Um, these were all doing kind of similar things
They weren't like smart contract layers
But they were like hacks little hackarounds to put like metadata into bitcoin
And like it just I don't think it would take off because bitcoin is just that every token was a scam
So what's the point of building a token layer if every token that comes out on it
You're just going to call it scam. It's not going to work, right?
So now ordinals is what really flipped. Everyone's opinions. I think
Now people are open to this stuff and now there's you know
Hundreds of millions and billions of dollars going into these things now
I mean ordinals alone is like a hundred billion dollars or something
Yeah, some people call it bitcoin's first child, but it really isn't you do the history, um, but yeah
All the others just died in child
Yeah, they were they were miscarriages
I mean lightning network is great
I I know a lot of people, you know think it has a lot of limitations and it does and we don't even know
if lightning network will be like
If it'll even be used for like coffee and payments
What a lot of people are starting to think is that and I I don't totally agree with this
I think it probably still will be usable for coffee and payments and stuff
But what a lot of people are thinking is that lightning network could
become like a layer two of bitcoin that other things other protocols interact and settle to
Like liquid could settle to lightning
These bitcoin l2s can settle to lightning and other like banks and other people can settle to lightning and lightning will settle to bitcoin
And it'll be like this this this layer that all the different protocols communicate through
They use lightning network to communicate through each of them and then they settle the big payments to bitcoin
Afterwards, so that's a possibility. I don't know. I think lightning network still is likely to be used for payments
But i'm unsure. I mean it's working now, but the problem is as bitcoin gas fees
Again higher it gets harder to open and close channels
But there are hacks around this like batch. I'm not gonna get into it
But there's a bunch of like things people are working on there's actually like probably a thousand developers working on lightning network
It's got like a ton of mind
Like intellectual capital behind it. I still am very hopeful for it. I was one of the first 500 lightning network nodes
Um, but we'll see we don't know how these things will play out, but we got time
Yeah, I wonder if uh, anybody's going to move uh
Some sort of lightning network for dogecoin, but I doubt it
There's i'm talking to uh, some people who are building it. Um
I don't think it's moving very fast because i've offered help
But we've i've offered to even like maybe dogechain could uh, like, you know
A dao or foundation could donate to get lightning network built for doge, but they haven't taken us up on it yet
So I think it's moving pretty slow
But that's something I would really love to see because what you could do with that is um, once you get multiple
Networks using lightning network, you can do atomic swaps
So lightning network is actually built to be able to you could like have if you have bitcoin lightning network
There's already a light coin has lightning network now if you get doge lightning network, you can have
Inner you could have atomic swaps between bitcoin doge and light coin without uh
Without any decks or without I mean you could build decks front end on it or whatever
But without any like third party involved you could do it totally trustlessly, which is really cool
And I don't know why that hasn't happened
Yet, i'm sure it will sometime
You could have um, actually, uh
You know someone i'm working with now his son is cordon for manera and they just did atomic
Swaps on manero. So i'm not sure how they're doing that. I haven't had a chance to look into it, but
Yeah, I would love to see like imagine if we could have like manero doge light coin
Um bitcoin and others, you know doing trustless swaps between them you have thor chain for that now, which is great
I like thor chain a lot also working with that team on something
But uh, yeah having it totally trustless without even validators in the middle is pretty interesting
I think maybe the reason they haven't pushed that is because thor chain is there and thor chain does work pretty well
side side rants and theories
No, I would just say i'm just letting rock know. I love these
These are the best ones like diving into all this theory just like it opens the mind
So love it. Love it. Love it. Don't ever apologize
Ethereum actually could plug into lightning network too, by the way, I think they would just have to do an update to
Or unless they already have fixed transaction malleability. I think that's like the main requirement
But um, yeah ethereum theoretically theory ethereum could join lightning network too. Imagine that you get cross chain
You could swap bitcoin for ethereum trustlessly
That would be amazing. I think that would open up a ton of like liquidity flow and like just capital efficiency
We should push on that man, I wouldn't mind donating money towards that
I'd like to see that there was radon. I invested in radon. They were supposed to be lightning network for ethereum
But that never worked out
But I invested a good amount of money in that because I really wanted to see it happen
That was like six years five years six years ago
Dude, that was that was seven years ago. Actually, holy shit
Do you guys remember radon 2017 j5's hardy
Yeah, many many many vaporwares that didn't make it
Oh man, there were so many
I used to invest in a lot of altcoins back then. I don't really invest in a lot of altcoins anymore
I've got like maybe you know five or six things. I will even touch
I just I just don't it's not my thing. I mean i'm
I'm mostly in like Bitcoin, ETH, Polygon
What I do instead, you know
To have exposures do multiple things
Let's say I do the same thing
That you do five six altcoins, but instead of one altcoin
That location I use as an entire portfolio for shit coins
Small smaller allocations to stuff that are very risky and uh, uh, like what percent like five ten
So, let's say uh your portfolio consists of
50 percent bitcoin 15 percent ETH
The rest is altcoins. For example
Distributed like five positions
So instead of five positions, you have four positions of ten percent each
Or nine eight percent each and the last eight percent is distributed onto like ten shit points that
Are super risky and could go to zero
Yeah, honestly, I think I I should like I should not be lazy here and I should
Take a take a million bucks or something or 100k or whatever and just go spread it out a bunch
Amongst a bunch of alts because I do
like not financial advice, but like like, you know galcy and your charts kind of back this up too, but
I mean i'm even telling my like I don't normally tell friends and family to buy alts
You know because I just they don't if they don't I always tell people only buy alts
If you actually are really deep in the market and you can make a good choice about these things because it's very difficult
You need years of experience before you can even I think you should even think about like picking alts
It's very difficult and a lot will lose
Yeah, I think right now is probably like the the possible roi on alts is like probably the highest it's ever going to be
Right, but like at this very point right now
Um, yeah, yes, I mean just since you summoned the snake
Yeah, this is something I talked about a lot is risk management
I actually have a five-part risk management series on my youtube channel that i've been doing i'm three parts into it going onto the fourth
And we talk about things there like investor mindset
Portfolio management theory, you know, uh
Market psychology risk indicators and exit strategy exit strategies. So that's all on my youtube
But yeah speaking about altcoins, I agree with you 100 percent
A newbie into crypto should stay away, especially from the degen plays
What I usually advise people to do is hey if you're going to purchase
an altcoin view it like the same way you'd view any other purchase in your life like a car or
A house or whatever. Everybody comes in with a different amount of money. So, you know 100 000
To you might mean a hundred thousand to somebody else
So it's all about portfolio percentages and risk management and it's like it kind of blows me away
I was actually just talking about this in my chat not that long ago
How you know when it comes to buying a car or a house or you know
Going, you know finding your kids college or something like that. You're going to do your research. You're going to immerse yourself
In um, the fundamentals of that purchase, you know
What is the neighborhood like and so on and so forth for a house?
But with altcoins, we just shove money into it and forget about it
It's like I won't invest in anything
That I can't see myself so every altcoin project i'm invested in which is pretty much the entire polygon ecosystem for the most part
Minus a couple shit coins on base
I'm immersed in the communities
Well, you won't be surprised if people are not actually doing their research where they're buying when they're buying a car
You you would be surprised the number of people that are paying
Lease on a car that they cannot afford
And um, you know when they need to resell it and they don't have money for food or stuff like that
Keep those people out of crypto
They're here. They're here so many people you need it. You need if you're buying a car
Come on, like if you're buying a car, you need to spend
Months. I I anytime i'm buying a car i'm spending months. I mean like my next
Car purchase. I spent years and years waiting and that's cyber truck, which i'm waiting anxiously on but
Like even tesla. I was an investor in tesla for
Two years and had read elon's book
Front to back multiple times and studied everything about it probably spent a thousand hours studying tesla before I ever bought my model 3
Um, and now i'm you know, i've had that for five years and now i'm waiting for my cyber truck
But um, yeah, generally like people are so
Uh, what's the word? Impulsive, you know, they they get some money and they want to buy a car and then they just like go
Buy it and i'm like take your time
Make a hundred offers to people on used cars, you know
And like, you know find the best possible deal really think it through I do the same thing even with small purchases
even very small purchase like me and cine have been wanting a big painting for our room and
Like we spent like a I don't know six months like thinking about the perfect painting for our room
Um, just if you're gonna spend money just like really I mean take your time, especially in investments like I always had a rule
Uh like going all the way back to 2015 16 and it was I would not be lazy about altcoins
I'll always go read the white paper first, you know, read the white paper dig in deep
Don't just throw shit at something because some kol told you to it's the stupidest thing to do
Should be either functional or leisure if you have the money to be leisure you can buy whatever you want anyway
You know, but if it's functional just buy that what you can afford. I don't understand. I have
I have friends. This is like a third world country where I live in
They rent so they don't own a home so they need to pay rent every month and um, they buy brand new
And then they pay a lease on that for five seven years
Etc and uh, you know salaries are pretty skinned in in this country
and I just don't understand that mentality just to be in a new car and
Show that you have money even though you don't I just don't understand
You should I think you should never buy a car like
One of my rules in life is I don't spend more than like I don't spend any money
That would actually dent my net worth so like if I if let's say so for example
if I had a hundred thousand dollars, I'm not spending more than
Two to three thousand on something and maybe maybe if it's a car make maybe five thousand or something
If I have a million dollars, then I now I can spend you know
20 to 50 000 on something if I have 10 million then I can spend 200 to 300 000 on it
But like I I just have this like kind of rule that I never dent my net worth
I never like spend on leisure or on a car or on anything. That's gonna like if you only have like
You know people it sucks because financing has ruined the way people think if you only have
Ten thousand dollars in savings and you go buy a fifty thousand dollar car
You know, I don't want to be mean because I know a lot of people do it
But you're you're you're smoking crack
You should not be buying a fifty thousand dollar car if you have ten thousand dollars in savings and people like well, it's okay
It's only a eight hundred dollar a month payment. I can afford that
Yeah, but you still just spent you don't realize you just spent fifty thousand
And you're gonna pay a shitload in probably seventy or eighty thousand after interest
When I like when I had my first million from crypto I
Was I think I was still driving a three thousand dollar Honda Civic
Yeah, that's the Warren Buffett mentality rock that you have and that's why that's why you continue to be so successful
Financially is because the secret is to live below your means and shove whatever extra extra you have into investments
but mindfully and I think like
Exactly, that's the key put it all in investments you have it in the crypto now
And I did I sold everything I had I sold my dream truck and I I drove a three thousand
I think it might have been two thousand dollar Honda Civic
For years and I just had all my money in mainly Bitcoin and you know some ethereum
For yeah, like that was in 2015 through then 17. I started buying small coins
I started gambling a little bit
But yeah, I agree with your premise which is like all coins are extremely risky
They don't do well against Bitcoin during Bitcoin mania runs because you know Bitcoin dominance kind of eats them alive
But but there is a time to get them
There is a time to get into them and I think my my point was people
In this space need to take risk management very seriously and not just listen to what some kol says
Like you said kols are out to enrich their own pockets
and they don't give a crap about retail, but
Um, you know, it's a zero-sum game and people don't realize that they that
30,000 they spent years saving to disappear in a moment, especially people who do leverage trading too
So, um, it just it just it boggles my mind
Um how people will throw large sums of money and I mean i'm guilty of it, too
I'm not going to sit here on my high horse, but we'll throw large sums of money at stuff
They don't even understand and and I read the white papers too of anything i'm putting my money into so
Uh, but I don't think a lot of people do that. I think most people don't they just say oh pretty coin
I mean, I guess if you're investing in meme coins and it's a small part of your portfolio and you're just like you look
At it as gambling, you know, I mean a lot of these don't have white papers. So whatever have fun, but
Uh, and that's a little too, but don't
Don't put 50 of your portfolio in
Please please guys, you know, don't change the chain of memes and dreams and you know, we love the memes
But don't put 50 of your portfolio in memes. Just don't that's not safe
I want to see you guys. I want to see you guys here in a few years still still around
I don't want to see you guys get liquidated and like, you know, turn your tail and run which a lot of people do it sad
Yeah, that that is part of the risk management thing is like I think in my portfolio meme coins make up less than half of a percent
Uh, they make up practically nothing. Yeah, I just don't want that. Do you count doges?
Do you count doges meme coin in that?
No, half a percent is really
Not not anymore. I I think it's not enough anymore
the the dynamics of memes and uh
Have changed since the last bull market
5 percent is something that you can consider
But 50 though, I kind of agree. I agree with you on this one
Ivan and I don't hold a lot of other memes other than like doge but and like the most of those memes
I buy are just because I like the communities the same with nfts all the nfts. I own actually all the nfts and memes
Outside of and and yeah, I guess doge too
But like all the memes I own that are on doge chain all the memes the nfts I own anywhere
It's all just because I like the communities and i'm more supporting those communities, you know
Like I didn't buy my like my pfp here is a doge, you know
Uh, I didn't buy that because I wanted to make money on it. I'm never gonna sell it, you know
Like it's it's probably a less than one percent chance that I ever actually it's like a zero percent chance
I'm not gonna sell this thing
It's just I like the community and I thought it looked cool and I just bought it because I want to be part of the community
Um, you know, i'm not buying it because i'm gonna if it if it hundred x I wouldn't sell it
It's like so um, but I think Ivan's right. I think look i'm in a different situation, right?
I've made my wealth so I understand other people have it and they want to take more risks
So i'm not like a get like gaussian said, you know, I don't want to be on my high horse here
I do think it's safe to hold a good amount in bitcoin and eath and polygon and doge, but if you want to
Play with these meme coins and alt coins and gamble like
Yeah, I mean, you know, let me look at it
Like if it was like my little brother or my like one of my siblings and they came to me right now and said
15 of my portfolio and meme coins
It's not a bad idea right now right now is just like
If if the cycles play out the way they've played out in the past and alt coins start doing
I mean like let's be real and it's not financial advice. They they could easily do 100 x's thousand x's
I mean look at it. Just the stuff that I was
Involved with last cycle. I mean quick swap to the 2000 x
Matic did like a 300 x 250 300 x
Doge chain in the bear market did like a 45 x. Um, and as pulled back now it's only at a 12 x. Um
What else uh, I said polygon, uh, I mean a lot of these I mean probably maybe let's look at some projects lda incubated
um, there's many projects that hundreds or thousands of x in the last cycle, so I
You know, I think it would honestly if you're if you're not wealthy already
I might even say it's irresponsible not to
Take some risks on some alts right now. Like you probably should
Uh, like just look into them
I'm, not saying like d gen and just do total gamble bullshit
But like I guess if what I would probably do if it was me and I wasn't wealthy
I would probably have like I'd probably split it mostly amongst defi because that's what I understand the most
I'd probably put a ton in like I'd probably split it like, you know
maybe 20 of my portfolio and maybe like
You know uni and quick and
chain link and avay and compound and balancer and maybe gmx
Synthetics like good defi products. That's what I like the most and then maybe I would like put
Five to ten percent in like just really cool like nfts and meme coins. Maybe I don't know
I'm not doing that but like if I was if I was like broke and I was trying to make my first money
I'd probably take some risks there. I took a lot of risk in 2017
Yeah, one thing that i'll say to that is
I know you're saying about a thousand x's and stuff
But we also have to keep in mind that total market cap is gonna total three
The altcoin market cap is going to have diminished returns compared to last cycle too
So, I mean, I do think people should manage their expectations. Can you explain that? I I still don't quite understand
Yeah, i'm not i'm not quite sure that that's accurate to be honest really yeah
I mean because like what well it could it could end up being inaccurate, but i've looked at total three
Um history of it on on a logarithmic regression. What is total three though? Explain it one more time
Is it is it because I think it's just like alts
It's it's it's it's outside of ethereum and bitcoin. So it excludes and why did it say usdt next to your chart?
That's the part that was confusing. Oh, oh, that's just a ratio
Um of me taking all coins and subtracting out stable coins and then dividing it by bitcoin to get okay
So it's all so it's okay. So it's everything
So it's basically everything that's not bitcoin
E and stable coins. Is that right?
Uh total three by itself does include stable coins, but it does not include bitcoin and e so i'm confused again
Uh, let's just say everything except bitcoin and e
Stable coins. I don't really know how much of an effect they actually have
Overall, um when I subtract it out and take the ratio. I don't notice much of a difference as to when I leave it in
Um, I guess the point is like if you think about alt coins that were coming out back in
2016 2015 what were their total market caps that they were coming in with not very high, right?
Sometimes in the hundreds of thousands maybe less
Now you have things like for instance pith on salona came in with a 500 million dollar valuation
Now is that thing really going to thousand x I think it came up with billions in fully diluted
Yeah, yeah, it is billions in fully diluted. They were supposed to give us a three million dollar grant by the way, but it didn't
Yeah, so they're I mean they're they're 15 percent or so of their total supplies been released
Right, just take them as an example and how many others are there like that?
What did celestia come out with an insanely huge valuation? So you have to dig deep into the micro cap world
Um things that are capable of a hundred hundred fifty x I I actually you know
Um put some money into nova dao for that reason
I mean like partly and also like the idea of a community driven dao like that's not our you know
That doesn't function like arbitram or something
But uh, you know nova dao when I when I started investing it was under a hundred was under a million dollar market cap
And now it's around 3.4 million, but it went as high as 10 million
So so is no can you help me out here because I love owen and but I haven't actually gotten deep into nova dao
I like you know his gooeys and I like a lot of the stuff he's building
Um, but how does nova dao so is nova dao like a parent dao of all those things
So the company that owen uh founded is called studio nova
And studio nova is producing games. Like you know, you just said like gooey's meta vice gooey's doge tribe
These are games that are in development usdo
And the dao votes and ratifies
The dao submits votes and ratifies proposals
That directly affect studio nova
And the dao has a treasury of funds. They have some mgen ai which is um, I don't know if you're familiar with that image generate
Imagine ai is the actual name of the company. It's a decentralized image generation
artificial like kind of like uh
And so we have some of those funds in the treasury and then we have east in the treasury
And so any community member can request those funds through a dao proposal. So
Um, but yeah, it's basically the parent of studio nova
That's cool, man. I got to get some of that
That's one of these ones where when I say like I don't really buy a lot of things
I usually just buy things to same thing with stocks. I only buy stocks
Every stock I own that's not an et is just like an etf like, you know, smp 500 are literally companies
I really believe in and I want to win, you know, like micro strategy and tesla
Like I bought and I think uh, what else is that?
Stuff like that, you know, I buy things that I believe in I i'm voting with my money, you know
I'm showing support with my money. So like yeah owen and and everything he's building there
I would love to support by investing. Uh, so I got to get that i'm gonna i'm gonna do that soon
I got to do that. That's one that like i'm honestly like, you know, it seems like has a great community
But really I want to bet on owen
Um, i'm just there to support him
He's been through hell with like dogeira dao the predecessor to nova because he gets he gets put on all these side quests by other people
But he never makes time to focus on his own stuff
And finally he has decided to focus on his own stuff and he's he's shining, you know, so
Well, i'll take the blame or at least quick swap might take the blame for one of those side quests
I guess but that one now is under nova dao and is that's that stable coin because I I think it was
I think darren from quick swap. He's the producer of the all roselita polygon show
He uh, I guess he one day
Would just told uh darren. Hey, like
Do you think there's a way to get a native stable coin on doge chain and uh, like a few months later?
I think that's when he launched he figured out usdo or whatever
But uh, yeah, so some of those side quests can help nova dao, which is cool to see but it makes sense now
Because you know, he's building multiple things and they're all their own things
But if you put it under the dao, that's a pretty cool framework that all these yeah, it's a genius
I love I love the way he's running it there and it's got the spirit of doge coin to it, you know
Um, it's you know, no viet no venture capitalist investments. Everything's community owned, you know, and
It was was more to do with like diminishing returns
Maybe i've been in ic differently on this but you know
If you look at the total crypto market cap over time
You can include bitcoin and ethan there if you want to
You notice the diminishing returns?
I I what I do is I fit a logarithmic regression channel to all the data with like three standard deviations from the mean
And increments and you can see the diminishing returns play out
Where you're just not going to go as high as you did before in terms of multiples, right?
And you're not going to go as low either in a in a in a healthy
Averages I get right. So you're talking about average. Yeah, like i'm yeah, i'm not saying you can't find
You can't find a coin that's going to do a 10 000 x or a thousand x. I mean i'm not going to say that
Projects like that are not rugs are coming in with higher valuations than ever before
Um in any previous market cycle, I think you'll see this continue into the next market cycle and the next market cycle
How do you think the s&p became what it is today or the nazdak where you know?
You're not going to you're not seeing thousand x's that often there, right?
I mean, these are different it's a different animal altogether, but you know, we're talking you know, s&p's been around for
A lot longer than most of us and any of us than any living person, right?
Since the late 1800s. Yeah
In that perspective is that
You're counting that these projects even coming at 500 million for example market cap
Speculating that they're fairly valued at their at their launch
in my opinion is not the case because the entire
Crypto industry is very undervalued still and I still think it's very early
And there's so much upside potential even
I understand the diminishing returns that you're that you're trying to convey here that but
Eventually, yeah, it is going to calm down and we're not going to see the entire altcoin market cap
Just uh, you know 10x each each cycle. I don't think it even happened last time. I think it it was something like
Through 4x or something like that the entire market cap of all coins from the bottom to the top
But that means that the bigger projects will do have less
Upside potential, but there's so many
Interesting projects that are on
many blockchains fresh blockchains
either, you know use different
Layer tools, etc that that can actually do these
Yeah, I think I think it's going to happen
It's just it's going to be less common like last cycle
It was so easy to find coins that would make these insane gains. I think compared to now
Like people even in my group we're talking about, you know 3050x. That's really good
I mean you where can you find that in the stock market?
Other than nvidia maybe you know, like
So I guess what i'm trying to say is like I think people need to manage their expectations
And if you want those huge gains, you're gonna have to take on some pretty big risk
Yeah, I think if you're in this space enough and you're like coming to these spaces learning from the best in the space like
listening to the right podcast
Don't and become guys the one thing i'll say is like be really careful with k-wells because like they're mostly paid
And I can tell you some of the ones I won't name the ones
I I know are like paid more heavily and I know because i'm the one that pays a lot of them
Um because we work with them like lda is an incubation and marketing firm. So i've worked with most of them, but
Like there are good ones and there are you could kind of tell
You could kind of tell when they're telling you a bunch of like just hype bullshit
Then you kind of know they're being paid if they're
Like i'll give an example
Cryptolark love the guy he's I think like I I know he's well
I don't I can't tell you that he's never getting paid for anything
But he has ways to monetize like his newsletter and I know that i've offered him money
multiple times to talk about projects and
He's every time said no, I I won't take any money, but i'll talk about the project because I believe in it
You know lark talked about polygon totally unpaid. I promised that he talked about uh,
Uh quick swap totally unpaid. He talked about uh doge chain totally unpaid. So
I actually he's one of the ones that I believe in just because I know i've offered him money and he wouldn't take it. So
Um, I but there's a lot of them that that you know, they won't even talk to you unless you're paying them. So
You know and it's sad. It's kind of like frustrating, you know, um, but
Just be careful with k-walls
I think try to find people who are less you and always know that people have a bias right like even me here, right?
Uh lots of biases. I hold lots of bitcoins. So I I maybe i'm pumping my bags on bitcoin, right?
I hold lots of ethereum i'm building stuff on ethereum. I
I hold lots of polygon. Uh, you know, we incubated polygon. I
Doge chain and incubated quick swap. I have biases
So always remember everybody has biases even the people you trust or believe in they all have biases
So always try to take that bias and and like account that in your you know
If you're listening to someone and thinking of you should like buy something
Because everybody has a bias. So always try to understand that that's really important
But I don't know. I just try to find people that I can I feel like I can trust
And um, I lean more into the tech side than anything
You're in it for the tech
We are actually I'm a hardcore capitalist but yeah
I love the tech the most. Yeah
Yeah, I think people should invest in projects they believe in and I agree completely with what you said
I mean that is such an important message because a lot of kol's are paid and
That's how they make their money and they're going to make their money whether you win or lose
Um, like i'll tell you I won't I I know some that like I can't say who they are and this is what I was
Hinting to set because set works with a lot of kol's he knows exactly what i'm talking about
But i'll tell you some chains that I know have kol's that they claim they don't uh, and people claim they don't
I know cardano has a ton of paid kol's because I know some of the deals
Uh, I know salona has a ton of paid kol's I know of the deals
I'm not involved or i've seen them directly but i've had friends tell me and like they claim they don't have any um
Paid kol's like so a lot of these chains that like
I'll just leave it at that
But yeah, I know for a lot a lot of a lot of this industry is built on
like marketing and advertising and kol's guys and I look I know better than anyone because I
Own i'm the ceo of lda and we're an incubation marketing firm
So like and we you know, just like any other marketing firm. We're marketing things, right?
I'm like keep in mind my bias here guys. I'm a marketing guy
I'm also a marketing guy. I own a marketing company
So all these are always things you just have to keep in mind when you're listening to anyone, you know
You know, it's kind of like what trump said. Oh, uh
Once he's like, uh, what did he say? He said uh
Like I know I know they're like, uh, you know corrupt because i'm like paying them or something, you know, like
Like some of these politicians or you know, whatever or or they try to pay him or something
Sorry, I don't remember what it was
But you know you like there's all there's always a game and you have to understand the game and you got to like
You got to either you got to either learn how to play the game or navigate the game and not get like swindled by the game
What what I love about nova dao especially though is that we don't have that element there. It is entirely community driven
Meaning that if we want to promote it, I got to go make videos about it
As a member of the dao and then there's there's advantage and disadvantages to that. I mean those chain I think
Has an element of that also right where it can work
It can work to your disadvantages in some ways because you're not you're not going to get out there in the behemoth ways that
That you know other daoists could possibly get out there. But at the same time, you know, what you're getting is pure
Well, I could just give you some insights on that actually I mean like quick swap
It doesn't pay kol's but I we're actually now talking a lot about doing that and like getting a lot more kol exposure
I think what I would like to do is maybe a community vote about it
So this community could be well aware and have transparency. We actually have some kol's that are gonna
Uh pitch some some community votes, so they'll do a vote to get paid to do videos and stuff
I like it a lot more when stuff's transparent
Dose chain has had a ton of unpaid like support like so much so much unpaid like people talking about doe's chain
But uh, there are kol's who have had like, you know incentives either or like i'll give like a good example
This is um early on doe's chain. Um, so both quick swap and doe's chain never did any investment rounds, right?
Except for with the caveat doe's chain actually had started to do an investment round
um raised a bunch of funds and then decided for
Decentralization and regulatory reasons to that they that it wasn't a good idea to do a investment round
But we had already, you know made a lot of these deals with a lot of people including a ton of kol's
And so what doe's chain decided to do was refund
All of those people give them all of their money back, but they still got their tokens
So that was like, you know cool because then they were like, whoa
Like, you know because there have been people who refunded and then they didn't give them the tokens and then the token did really well
And people got really pissed so doe's chain actually gave everyone their money back
Uh, or if in if they even collected the money whatever they had agreed to though
They they got the tokens and what was so cool about that was like, what do you think those people did?
These were like institutional like, you know, high net worth people and kol's
Like just the intent of investing they talked about doe's chain and they and they they they that's how one of the reasons probably that doe's chain had
70,000 tweets a day about it at its peak and I think that'll happen again with doe's chain 2.0 and and you know
There's it's always about incentives, right?
You can't just expect people like bitcoin's the only thing where there was like very I mean there were incentives through mining
but that's about it, right there weren't like
A lot, I mean and then there were companies that could profit like coinbase and exchanges, but there was no like
Bitcoin dao that was paying people or anything like that
But uh, you have to have incentives aligned and so like with doe's chain 2.0
I think the best way to do incentives is that dao does a vote openly and transparently
And gives say whatever 10 million dollars of grants and airdrops to incentivize people to come to doe's chain 2.0
I think that's a great idea. It'll be up to the community, but I think it's a good thing
Yeah, I just think it's about being transparent
You know kol's are gonna kol
I think but the ones I believe in are the ones that are honest about it, you know and say on a video
Yeah, look, I want to let you guys know either. I got paid
to you know by this project or sponsored or
I invested in this project or I invested in the private rounds or whatever. Just be honest about it
It's okay. Like people need to make money, but just be honest about it
I really like how you approach things with uh,
Number one focus being on transparency because that there's no better marketing in my opinion than that
Is having a ceo who's transparent and he's willing to tell you the hard truths
And then I think that's a I think that's a great idea to find creative ways to incentivize kol's and other marketing campaigns
That are not so sleazy, you know, so
I I I agree with you. I think there's ways to be done
You're definitely uh marinating costs in my head to take back to the dow
actually one of the biggest
Accounts in the world. I can't say who it is, but just uh approached us
Very famous person everybody here every single person would know the name if I said it
Once to get more into promote like doge and talking about doge and
Was we were thinking about doing something with doge chain in that person
Like I should stop you there because we never know
In early early discussions, so we really don't know of course
I'm just putting out for the sake of transparency that I think that if this
Person does want to do this. I think it would be
You know in doge chain's interest to to do stuff like this
I I think that like doing deals with big people is a good thing as long as it's transparent and open. That's all
I've been on for six and a half. Yeah guys, we're going to wrap it up
I wanted to talk about tick tock a little bit and the ban and everything around it as well
But I think we can we can see what happens during the week and talk about it next week
It's been two and a half hours already
Anyway, two and a half hours here and we did four hours today at quick swap because of the time change
All right polygon polygon quick swap all those do polygon show it because so what happened? How did that happen?
Did this do not change times? So we we haven't changed time actually
Neither us or asia has changed time already only the us has
For some reason last year. It was first we changed and then you hadn't changed. It's always such a cluster fuck
Uh, what is that? What we gotta get the world needs to get its time zone shit together
Yeah, I think with remote work and global like fucking annoying, man
It depends on who creates the call for example in google google
Calendar if it's an american person that creates the call
The call for me will move one hour earlier
And if if I created it will stay the same
so since I created the the schedule for the twitter spaces, uh, it stayed the same
And uh all the calls that were created by execs that are in the usa. They were moved one hour earlier. It just
Just such a cluster fuck which means that the quick swap spaces had moved one hour earlier since you guys
Uh, somebody from the us actually scheduled the the spaces, you know
Yeah, so let's get those lined up so that we can because it's really nice that
A lot of the polygon people like you you guys always hear me at the end
I always tell me hey come over to the doge chain space and we want to get those people to flow over
It worked out today because we just went for four hours on that one
So it worked out fine, but I can't do six and a half seven hours of spaces, uh, my throat
Penny you have uh, you have your hand up before we wrap up, you know what I was thinking
I was thinking uh, we'll go to tenny and we'll do and we'll call out uh audience members and read some comments real quick
But uh, I was thinking would it be crazy guys for us just one time?
Maybe at like our two-year mark maybe in combination with uh, the all rosita polygon or something if we did like a a 24 hour
Space and just like I I like I don't think I would be able to be on for all of it
But we could just have people switch in and out and take over as hosting. I don't know
I just thought that might be a cool thing to do one day maybe
During peak mania, by the way, owen sends his love. Uh, he can't make it because of wi-fi issues. I guess where he's staying
Cool we gave him a lot of love today. Yeah. Thanks. Tell him let him know. All right
But I gotta get I gotta get it can you send me um some info
Yeah, rock out. Do you want me to just do me to do what I do?
Where where how I buy the token whatever? Yeah, I've done uh, multiple multiple videos on it
Do you want me to just dm that to you, please? Yes, that would be great. All right. I'll send you a dm after spaces
Cool. Yeah, if you said it's like a 3 million market cap, it's 3.4 right now. Yeah, bro. I think that's yeah
If if owen is leading this and he and he's got, you know, great community
But i'm by the way, I have so many people from the community. I always hear people talking about it
So clearly it's a strong community. I'm definitely down to yeah
I'll dm you. Yeah, as soon as the spaces are over i'll i'll shoot you a bunch of info
Uh, you buy it on uniswap. It's actually really easy
But uh, yeah, I have uh, I have videos on it. I can send you or whatever you want
Sweet and once we get doge chain 2.0, we'll we'll get we'll get some liquidity pools going over there too on doge chain
All right guys, uh, let's do oh penny bag penny bag
Yeah, I just wanted to do a shout out to uh real dogepunks on doge chain as they uh donated a thousand dollars towards a stray dog
animal care center in thailand recently
So just uh wanted to yeah, just give a big shout out to them
Wow, that's great. Yeah. Wow, that's super cool. Yeah. So if you guys want to show some support, um, just uh, check out their
Or check out my profile as well as i've shared the link and yeah show some support
This is what I love the most about. Uh web3 and crypto in general is just uh getting a community together to rally behind
You know certain causes or topics that they believe in
Um and just yeah use the collective power of community and and what cryptos enabled us to do
Um, how much are rdp's right now?
Uh, I'd have to check they're usually they're usually sitting around
Like the 220 to 280 w doge range
What is that in and doge or in dollars? I'm not even sure now. I don't I don't look at the prices
I hold for like 30 30 40 dollars. I think something like that
Yeah, all right. I will to support them donating i'll go buy some more of those
I I have a lot I have hundreds but i'll buy more
Hey, well, you know, they may pay off and it's it's still my favorite nft collection in the world
I think there's only like last I checked there was only something like um
Like 180 or something like that on the market. Like everything is uh
so the inventory is very low because uh
Yeah, people have just been um holding them tight and uh
Yeah, i'm sure once we get um doge chain 2.0 up
Yeah, not financial advice or anything. But like we should see uh nft start popping off and everything and
Yeah, i'm excited for what's to come
Hey, let's next week. Can you or anyone that's involved in shiberium or rio? She chain
There's new there's a new chain now going on sheeb. Can you guys give an update on that?
I'm, just curious and like, uh, you know, we try to be friendly with them and stuff
But yeah, just curious how all that's going
Um, I know they had some rough starts and stuff, but um, I love seeing more more dog chains come up
I'm hearing a lot of rumors of of doge l2s and side chains coming which is cool because that
Us being the first one it's like stacks
They were the first uh bitcoin l2 and as lots of bitcoin l2s are coming out since stacks was number one and first
Their valuation is skyrocketing. So
Uh, uh not financial advice i'm not saying that that's what's going to happen with doge chain or anything like that
I'm, just saying I think it's good
The more people who launch these these dog l2s and side chains and stuff just proves that we were like two years ahead of the game
That we were onto something first
Well, I always I always believed it from the very beginning as soon as I saw a doge chain
I was like this makes sense, you know, and actually when you think about it, um
Well, I don't know if this is statistically correct or not
I I bet you the gauzey and snake could correct me on this. No problem because
he he he uh, he knows a lot so
Didn't we create an l2 for doge coin?
quicker or sooner than and then l2 was built for
bitcoin and since uh doge coins kind of a fork of of light coin, which is a fork of or was also a fork of
Lucky coin I guess from back in the day
And it's also a fork of bitcoin. So like technically we were building l2s
even before bitcoin itself
But we might i'm not sure they might I think stacks could have been around the same time i'm unsure
But uh someone could go find that
Um, it would had to be pretty close. They were probably around the same time, but i'm unsure
But yeah, we were definitely one of the first proof of work evms for sure
Yeah, so that's like that's a feat in and of itself and um, oh, yeah
Yeah, i've been bullish since the very beginning as soon as I saw as soon as I interacted with doge chain
I'm like, this makes sense. You know
What does everyone think about what do you guys think? What do you think penny about doge in general?
It's not been like running as much as I would have hoped or thought
Uh, but I think I think doge will have its time to to shine. It was cool. Elon
Pumping doge recently. What's up on stage? That was cool
Yeah, I think it like I was surprised to be honest with you that it ran up
As quick as it did to the 20 cent mark per or their boats, but oh really?
Yeah, but it's been it's been like a slow mover compared to other meme coins that have popped up
Yeah, she pumped a bunch. Yeah, yeah, floki floki reached. It's all damn high almost. I think floki just whoa
Yeah, floki ripped like out of nowhere and I wasn't keeping up with any of the news or anything
So I don't know what the catalyst was for that one. But uh
Doge will have its time. Those will have its time
It's the by far the strongest of the communities of the meme by the way
That's something i've been having i've been having like a thought about like my kind of
I guess my my thesis. I don't know if it's an investment thesis, but or just a thesis in general about doge
I know a lot of people like foundation and a lot of people
they really want to see doge used for payments and like as a currency and I think that's cool, but
I also I don't know. I look at it. I probably lean more
Towards just it's the reason i'm involved in doge is is the community isn't I don't I don't
Personally i'm not using doge for payments for anything. I'm not buying coffee with it and I don't really care to
I just love it for the community to be honest and i'd like to to use it
Use I use it in defi. I like to use it in defi
That's right. Actually, I guess I do use it as a payment all the time on doge chain for virtual payments
But yeah, I don't use it in the physical world at all. I see it as like the the onboarding
like kind of sandbox for crypto in general, um for the masses that's what I want to see it at least as like I just
That's what got me interested in it, too
Like I started off in crypto just speculatively trading and not like I didn't know anything about defi
I didn't know about like how chains actually operated and worked
And like I never got into the weeds of you know, what was
Actually building on the chain and uh now you're building in defi. Yeah. Yeah
like this is crazy like i've learned so much in the in a short amount of time that like, uh
my journey's been in crypto in general, but um
Yeah, everything was learned from being on doge chain and from the community actually teaching me like I didn't
Get to know all this stuff just by happenstance or anything like that
Like the the community was the one that actually educated me
And that's where like I like to try and give it back
And give it forward and like that's what to me also what doge stands for too, right?
Like it's a do good like even though it's a meme coin
Like everybody is prescribed to the same kind of ethos if you believe if you believe in it
It's you believe in that ethos of do do only good every day, right? Like that that's something that you know
The the community itself can rally behind and so
Like i've just i've seen so much generosity from all the different projects people working together
Um, there's a little bit of there
Of course, there could be tribalism at times, you know between projects and stuff like that
That's only natural and that that's that happens on every chain
But like from from what i've heard from the community in general too, they they time and time again said that
The community is like it's like no other right on on doge chain. Like most chains aren't like
Like our chains. So yeah, I just I sorry i'm like sounding all bullish and everything
But yeah, I can't wait to see it grow
And and this is like an important part of like history. I feel like uh
So yeah, it's just it's gonna be wild times going forward. Hopefully
Yeah, I think that doge community is so much more vibrant since doge chain and doge and also have come man and go ahead galsian
Just I was just going to speak to something that penny bags was talking about which was
You know that the move to 20 cents or whatever i've studied the
chart of doge pretty pretty extensively with
With its own log regression lines and doge has a tendency to make very impulsive moves out of nowhere
So it will what it'll do is just crab for a while and it's kind of weird to see these charts patterns play out
Over and over again like history rhymes. It doesn't repeat
With certain projects. I mean doge's been around for a long time. So
Um, it just crabs for a while. It's just what it does and then out of nowhere
Um, and I know elon's uh, elon musk has a lot to do with doge's movements in the past
But I hope we can get past that. I mean elon of course has done a great, you know
Hasn't great for publicizing doge to the end and kind of helping brand it as a community coin, which it it really is
You know, so there's always a narrative behind why price moves the way it does
But i've just noticed that myself that doge will just like
Go up impulsively out of nowhere
I mean to be honest before elon started talking about doge
I would probably never tell a family member or friend to buy doge
And I still don't i'm not like out there telling him when hey buy some doge, but if people ask me
I because elon's behind it. I feel so much more comfortable
Like I feel like that kind of helped it to become like I mean doge is a blue chip to me
You know like, you know, depending on how you define blue chip doge to me is definitely a blue chip
So I think it's like it's volatile and it's risky and you have to let anyone you know
If you have a friend that asks should I buy doge just let them know like hey, okay
Yeah, buy but don't don't like if it starts dropping don't panic sell
You know just hold it like anything else that you believe in if you believe in it
Buy it to hold it. Don't buy it to flip it or whatever. I don't I don't think that's safe
But um, yeah doge is definitely a blue chip and elon was a big part of that you got, you know
Arguably one of the greatest, you know contributors to society in the world who you know, his favorite is, you know doge
You know that that helps me to feel more comfortable telling like my friends if they ask me like yeah
Yeah, you can get and I tell people sometimes i'm like, you know
You could get a little doge on top of your other, you know, your bitcoin or your eth or whatever
I feel even more bullish now that doge is out. Um
Because like now I view doge as like, okay
So the price goes down like I want to buy more because I see
That I can get more dogecoin and dogecoin like as a utility now
Like I can inscribe something on that dogecoin like it has real value and utility to me now where I can build things
And communities and projects with it like that's the way i'm viewing doge now
That I hope I hope more people kind of view it in that in that same manner too or or take it into consideration. Yeah
Cool penny you want to uh read us out some or gaussian do one of you want to read some comments and then one of you
Want to read uh audience members out and shout out some audience members. I can read comments. Sure
Yeah, working on that right now. A lot of them
It's it's just good to get everyone involved in like and if more people by the way crypto connect
Why are you not up on stage man? There's so many good speakers out there. Why are you guys not on stage?
Yeah, crypto connect said at mr. Blueberry Cohen, etc. I mean, yeah, there's a bunch of next time come up guys
Sheebs dude, whatever all you guys like come up next time, but go ahead. Uh, gaussian. No worries. Um
Yeah, actually when you said crypto connect that was actually the comment I was on
He said dig the tunes as always to mr. Blueberry 258 richie guru posted some doge memes
Crypto connect, uh great intro tune tune karen. Oh karen's the queen of web 3
You guys know who karen is, right?
says well worth a listen, um
E3 was trying to get testnet tokens and it kept saying busy. Try again later. Just wanted to let you guys know
Mason the rain god said he's another rock
Um, I guess these comments might be a little out of context. Am I doing this, right?
Yeah, it's okay. Some of them were probably to like conversations we had so maybe they we we got to read them
Ivan you got to keep us on it
We got to read them throughout the show and not wait till the end
We should really do that like maybe halfway through or a quarter way through or every hour or something
But yeah, let's do that next week or even as they come in
DJ posted elon musk's, um
At giga berlin where he talked about doge point for a minute and a half, which is also in my video
So he posted a a direct link to that
Tim to nz said buy om nom and come in on top. So om nom is a new meme coin on doge chain
Quite the contrary actually it's the it's the oldest
The market cap is large enough that I guess it isn't new. Yeah. Sorry. I I actually
There's so much stuff to unpack here that I actually was ignorant to om nom. So om nom was one of the first
Meme coins on doge chain actually and it's just really cool to see that it did like someone said it didn't adx
In the last month or something. Is that true? I got a 14. Yeah
Shame on me shame on me for that. Uh, i'm not familiar with everything
Uh, it's great to see it succeeding because you know, it's been around for so long
And there's a lot of people in the community that that hold that I don't remember if I have any
The community has actually made created their own telegram channel now and a brand new website for the token
So that the community's kind of taken it back from previous owners or or it was like in limbo
Um on chain for a little bit and yeah, this this pump got it
Um back up and started and it's it's been raging ever since it's doing pretty good. I've looked at the uh
There there is a narrative going on around right now, um to do with like
Meme coins on every chain, uh blue chip meme coins where people are kind of looking looking towards some of the first
Meme coins on each chain and and kind of gravitating towards those
So I think people are are you know, that that's why they're jumping on um, nom right now
Yeah, yeah, that's super super cool i've heard there's some other ones that have been pumping too
But uh, yeah, that's that's great
You know, i'm very similar to floki actually because they both had like the founders or whoever just kind of
Stopped helping or stopped supporting or just disappeared or whatever. There was no bad rugs or anything like that
It was just like they just kind of stopped supporting or whatever
But then the community just took over and floki-fi actually what happened was it was rugged by the founders
I think and then the community took over then it was rugged again. I think or something
But then the third time the dev the dev
Floki if I if I remember correctly and then like the third time around now it's been like quite successful
I guess what happens is like eventually all the dev tokens that can be sold are kind of sold and then
The community just takes over at that point. Is that kind of what happened with floki?
I think we should have the floki guys on we we've had uh them on before
Yeah, who's the guy we used to have on all the time? Um
Yeah, because floki-fi lockers on doze chain. Um, what's what's the guy we used to have on all the time guys?
From floki we we had the the official account from floki
Yeah, who was speaking on it? Do you remember? No
I can't remember either. We should have them on fine. Let's find them and get them on be cool. Talk mean claims with him
Can continue with the comments
Let's let's wrap it up guys. I don't I went through the comments. There aren't any there's a bunch of spam
Uh, okay below what you read so I don't think it's really rare five has this hand up
Yeah, let's uh j5 if you real quick so we can uh, we can wrap up quickly
J5 you can go now. I don't know if you you can hear ivan or not
This is speaking guys because I can't hear him I can't hear j5 at all. Yeah, I can't hear him. He might have gotten
Affected by this x issue happened to me last night in spaces. Yeah, I couldn't hear rock earlier as well. It's uh,
An issue sometimes somebody gets rugged as long as it's not as it's not the the organizer. It's fine
Uh, he might be jumping back in okay
We'll we'll just name uh penny. Do you want to name uh, shout out people? Are you a media or?
Uh, sure. Sure. I'll show some people out if you want
Uh, cool. Yeah crypto canuck in
In the crowd here the defy addicts toad sir sheaves
I'm always so hard to pronounce your name man. So sorry if I butcher this but uh zan zan key
Um, we've got queen of doge chain
Uh, we've got dustin vibes alessa
mogul karen. I hope you're not a bad karen
Patches dr. William charles
Uh, the sex the sex offender. Okay. All right sex as in cex
franco, wah more more africa
flame horse and coded crypto
I see also seneca bch. She maybe you enjoyed
Seneca our talks about uh the history there. Maybe you hate me or maybe you like
my fairness or whatever but
Sounds I see another one. You didn't shut up dan ski. What is that dude? Is that an rdp with like?
That's not a real rdp. Is that what is that? That's a dan ski 1995. That's an rsp
That uh, so a real sheep of punks which real doge. Oh cool created. Yeah, but there's a
I need to get mine man. I have hundreds of rdp. I should have gotten a bunch
You have a bunch of them. You just need to connect your your wallet on the on mantra on the shebarium. Uh
Net and you will see them in your wallet
That's that's what i'm kind of pumped
I could get i'm gonna like get a bunch of new random nfts with random traits that i've never seen
I need to do that. Yeah, just okay. I got three things to do today
One is get I need to get nova dao. I need to go claim my
Uh, and there was one other thing. I I wanted to invest in that. I said I wanted to support anybody remember
There was something that you you were gonna buy some rdp's to support the yes
Yes, let me let me write these down buy more rdp's
to support uh charity giveaway
Rsp's thanks guys. All right
Cool. Can I do a quick shout out real real quick? Um, yeah, I just uh wanted to say and you know j5 is up on stage too
J5 and carla hosts nightly
Web three spaces that start at nine o'clock p.m pacific standard time. I have no idea what that is in utc. Um, but
But never with the time change, you know, I can't remember if it's plus seven or plus eight
But uh, I would just encourage anybody listening to join us
carla will post a link on her uh twitter x page and um
These are nightly. They put them on two hours. Sometimes they go three hours all things web three karen the web three queen
Uh is also in those spaces every night and there's actually quite a few people that see jeremy nuclear cowboy
We're all one big family here, you know, so if any of you are uh awake at nine p.m
Pacific standard time come join in with our with us and our spaces i'm i'm there almost every night, too
So just wanted to shout that out
Yeah, thanks for that man. Uh, i'll try to join if i'm if i'm awake
Like 4 a.m for me, I think so. I guess i'm not going to join
So I sometimes have like tournaments
Street fighter tournaments until late at night because they would
With people all over the globe so might be able to join but I highly doubt it but rock can
Give me the info under the bus here rock rock will join, you know
Wait, what day is that? It's every day
Okay, cool. Yeah, send me the info
Okay, we'll we'll send it to you
I'll send it to you with the nova dows stuff and carla might have the latest link to the spaces or j5
Yeah, we'll also see you guys
And I just realized I have a call in eight minutes. Wonderful. So my voice will not get a rest
Cool see you guys. Cheers everyone. Cheers guys. Thanks for joining this week again and see you next week