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Building in Cosmos: Top Projects and Trends to Watch
Recorded: June 12, 2025 Duration: 1:22:15Space Recording
Short Summary
In a dynamic discussion among key players in the Cosmos ecosystem, the focus was on the upcoming token launch for Prism Zone, innovative yield opportunities, and the critical importance of user experience and strategic partnerships in driving growth and adoption in the crypto space.
Full Transcription
Thank you. GMG everybody this is took you so letting you know that we are getting this space up and
rolling and getting our speakers up on stage so please just give us a few minutes as we
get everything settled in thank you very much
gmgm everybody i'm just um sending out the space into the universe, into the Twitter universe.
Oh, I think I just muted myself.
Okay, I hope you guys can hear me.
I'm seeing some hearts, so I think it looks good.
I'm just going to make sure we get our speakers up on stage.
Should it be too long here? Thank you. Thank you. All right, all right, everyone.
This is going to be an interesting morning.
I know I'm talking to our other co-hosts in the background, trying to figure out how the
details are going to be coming forward.
Can you guys hear me right now?
Out of curiosity?
Thumbs up, thumbs down?
Oh, good.
Okay, okay.
Yeah, no, Malina and I are trying to figure out what happened
because somehow we're both on the GenZoo account at the same time,
and we're not sure how it let us both start the
space because we were having some initial issues so we're just we're gonna get that one fixed up
real quick thank you guys in the meantime um can we actually get some uh quick mic checks i know i
heard mr refractor in the background so good morning to you ollie hopefully you're having a
good day good morning it's uh can you hear me okay does it sound all I hope you're having a good day good morning it's a
can you hear me okay it's a sound all right yeah you're perfect man thank you
so much all right and then wonderful to have you Tony can you get a quick bike
check hello guys good morning good morning. Perfect. Thank you very much.
And then Hemu.
Good morning. Can you guys hear me?
Yes, absolutely. Perfect. Thank you so much, Hemu.
And then I believe our last one up on the list here is Hasham.
Hey, how's it going? Thanks for having me today.
Wonderful to have you here, sir.
And well, as we try and get our hosting situation
fixed out on the back end, actually,
I'm going to give a quick opportunity for Mr. Fractor
to kind of start this off.
Give a little bit of background information on who you are
and then who you represent today.
Yeah, I am co-founder of Prism Zone, which is a layer one blockchain built using the
Cosmos SDK.
We specialize in splitting out the yield from any kind of yield bearing token. So at the moment on our platform, you can do that with layer one cosmos tokens
like Atom, Osmo, Injective, Celestia,
and then also yield bearing stable coins.
So things like Ondo's USDY, Neptune's USDC and USDT.
And then most recently we've added yield bearing Bitcoin assets.
So starting off with Midas Bitcoin.
And so in the theory behind Prism is that in traditional finance,
the kind of yield swap market is the biggest derivative market or the biggest, I guess, market full stop in financial markets.
So it's kind of something like a 700 trillion market.
We think that as DeFi matures,
you're going to start to see the composition of yield swaps in DeFi mirror that.
And so, you know, in traditional finances, it's super useful
for things like anything that kind of has a yield associated with it, whether it's, you know,
mortgage, credit cards, auto loans, anything really. In the background, there's a large
yield swap market going on behind that. And so that was kind of my background in traditional finance,
doing that a couple of investment banks.
So JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs, before I started working in DeFi.
And so, yeah, I think that it kind of like opens up a new way
for people to kind of hedge, trade, speculate.
We are live on Mainnetnet have been for a year our token launch
is happening in the next week or two is the current plan and yeah other than
that excited to be here and speak to other people in the cosmos
well it is an absolute pleasure having you here today, Oli, and thank you so much for
giving that detailed and quite impressive background.
So always interesting to hear what all you have done in the past, considering how many
spaces we've shared together at this point.
So thank you very much.
Now, Tony, I don't know much about you, Goodsir.
Can you give us a little bit on your background and who you represent today?
Hello, guys. Thanks for having me here today. Sir, can you give us a little bit on your background and who you represent today?
Hello guys, thanks for having me here today. I am the community leader of the Cybernetics Group and the Knowledge Protocol, but today I am representing the Cybernetics. We are a private
group of investors who have been in traditional markets for years, now focus heavily on Cosmos.
We are a private group with structure,
and we see Web3 as pure business, actually.
We don't believe much in revolutionary talks,
no ideologists.
We just care about investments with decades-long
horizon. We treat this space like any other market with professional standards, even though
there are not many professionals in this market, sadly, but maybe someday. And, you know, cybernetics is, it's actually something unique, I think you can already see in
your audience, a lot of people from the cybernetics group. So, yeah, I, we are heavily invested in
Cosmos. We believe a lot in Cosmos. We are very active in the last year, actually,
even though we are in Cosmos since its inception. But we really believe that Cosmos is changing.
And we decided to have a more active role to become more visible to the public and help the teams we believe in in any way we can.
So, yeah, that's from my end in Cybernetics.
Thank you very much for joining us today, Tony.
I love hearing how much people want to help others in the field,
especially when they know that it's still such a new and growing field. Tony, that's, I love hearing how much people want to help others in the field, especially
when they know that it's still such a new and growing field.
So very excited to hear what you have to share today.
Now, Hemu, how are you doing today, sir?
Can you tell us a bit about who you are and who you're representing?
Yeah, good morning, everyone.
I'm Hemu.
Also go by Saeed, just to keep you all a little confused here.
But Saeed is what I go by in real life and with the Osmosis Polaris team as well.
And let's see.
The past few years, I've been the head of product over at Osmosis,
which many of you are familiar with.
And now we're building Polaris.
So I guess while we're not building, you can also find me over at TikTok.
So it's a two-part mission here.
One is to, of course, hopefully build Polaris and Osmosis and figure out how we can actually make products more accessible to not just all of us here, but ideally the next wave of users, we always are talking about onboarding.
And the second part of the mission now is onboarding those users,
which not enough of us talk about.
So as mentioned just a moment ago, I do spend a lot of time on TikTok
and Reels as well, where we're hoping to grow the pie for not just the cosmos,
but crypto as a whole for all of us.
The more people we can onboard, the more we all benefit.
So yeah, it's a multi-part mission here, building and growing the pie.
And it's been quite the adventure so far. We've learned so much from osmosis over the years.
And yeah, Polaris is now on a mission to take those learnings and continue growing the pie for all of us over the years. And yeah, Polaris is now on a mission to take those learnings
and continue growing the pie for all of us.
Well, it's always wonderful to hear
that there's different types of content creators out there.
And I am excited to hear basically your viewpoints
alongside Girl in the Verse as she creates
some pretty incredible content so i am
always interested to see how people are kind of you know uh sharing the educational side of things
so thank you very much for being here today and then um you said you go by saeed
is that correct i do yeah all right just so i uh have that in my brain for later on. Thank you very much.
Of course. And then our final guest of the day, Hasham, how are you doing today? Good, Siri. And can you tell us a little bit about who you're representing?
I'm doing very well. Thank you so much. I'm Hasham. I'm co-founder and growth lead of Ellis Network.
For those who aren't familiar with Ellis Network, we are an all-in-one DeFi platform.
Our mission is really to help users break free from their reliance on centralized exchanges.
So if you think of the great asymmetry out there, 300 million centralized exchange users
versus, let's say, 10 million DeFi users, it's not just an asymmetry, it's an opportunity.
So this is where we all have,
you know, as builders, as founders, as community members, a really great chance to help bring
those users over to DeFi, give them self-custody, give them more control, give them more financial
freedom. So that's our mission.
short sweet and to the point i love it now uh we also have our wonderful co-host up here today
uh girl in the verse how are you doing can you hear us okay is everything all right now
yeah i'm doing fine that was just so funny what a weird psyop on x but no no, I'm good. I'm here. I'm excited to like learn about building in or on
Cosmos just because it's not particularly like I would say something that I actually focus on.
So I am curious to hear from everyone here how like maybe even someone like myself, a creator
could be building within the Cosmos ecosystem. yeah, just a thrilled to be here.
I guess like I would want to maybe ask around, you know, why are you,
why are you all choosing to build within the cosmos ecosystem?
I'd love to hear like from everyone here,
why you guys opted for cosmos versus any other chain or protocol.
versus any other chain or protocol?
I can start with that if you like.
Yeah, who wants to go first? Go ahead.
So with LS Network, I think this was actually a really big discussion amongst the founders.
Should we build it using like on Ethereum or EVM or should we be an app on somebody else's chain?
Or should we be an app chain? So the decision came down to, you know, building with Cosmos SDK,
because it really is the best tech stack out there. In terms of customization, in terms of
what you can do, not just in terms of like the protocol level, being able to control block times,
being able to, you know, set your own parameters for governance,
for how many validators,
if you're gonna have validators versus governors,
things like that,
along with control over the application layer.
So to be able to have the ability to set up your front end
and make any of the changes that you may need to make.
So if you're a DAP building on somebody else's chain,
you're sort of riding along with whatever they're doing,
you know, in a sense, right?
So you're limited to their block time,
you're limited to their finality,
you're limited to some of the other design parameters.
But if you build your own chain using Cosmos SDK,
you know, the sky is the limit,
you can do anything you want.
So that's really the most exciting thing
about building in Cosmos.
Now, as far as user acquisition, user retention, those are the things that actually doesn't really matter where you build.
It's really more of your business development, your networking, your strategic partners.
So we envision the future is going to be, it doesn't really matter what technology you use to build, as long as it's really, really good and has a great user experience.
But you do have to reach out and connect to those other communities so you've got to get to the
solana users you've got to get to the ethereum users you have to get to the ton users and when
you do that uh it you know you you build this seamless user experience and i think that's one
of the great things that cosmos does is they've always been thinking about this internet of
blockchains concept where it won't matter what you're doing on the back end,
as long as you have a front end that connects you to everything.
So that's kind of our vision.
And I think most others here will agree,
because I think Polaris is doing something very similar.
So this is like a, I think, really the next frontier
in terms of like user growth and acquisition.
So that's why we decided to build here.
Oh, I might follow on to that.
I absolutely love all of the above. It all resonates with
exactly our mission here. Cosmos has been an amazing home base for us and always will
be. It's where Osmosis was, you know, and it continues to be the center of the Cosmos
and a lot of the trading activity. And it was excellent for momentum,
the initial wave for all of the insights we have today.
But the key now is to grow and to onboard everyone.
And our users, including all of us in the cosmos,
don't just trade things in the cosmos.
We catch up with a ton of our users every week
and everyone is trading everything in Ethereum, Solana, Bitcoin matters to everyone as well.
Even accessing ecosystems like Ton and Tron, which tend to be harder.
Most a lot of users end up still on centralized exchanges, right, because it's just the path of least resistance today.
So the cosmos is, you know, the home base for many of us in this conversation
and the way that we all benefit is by shipping a ux that doesn't just focus on the cosmos right
like it's always got to focus on what a user wants and what users want whether they're ethereum slana
even just genuine retail users like your neighbor next door who knows nothing
about the cosmos, they just want access to every asset. So making that as easy as possible and
should be hopefully front and center for all of our missions. And maybe the last note I'll add
here is I think so many of us live and breathe on crypto Twitter.
So I think it's super important that we start thinking about what that all looks like, what
growth and acquisition, user acquisition looks like beyond our bubble that we've been comfortably
living within for the past many, many years.
In addition to, of course, you know, there's so many different tops of funnel for user
acquisition, but that's definitely something we all need to be thinking more of.
In addition to always bolstering the cosmos.
Yeah, and to follow on to that, from our side, we, I guess my first experience building was building on the Terra blockchain, building smart contracts.
At that point in time, I, in time, there was a huge community,
a huge amount of TVL, loads of liquidity sloshing around,
but really robust, but obviously very flawed money markets.
But they sort of had all the components of a great ecosystem.
But what we found building with smart contracts was
we couldn't, we just,
you just can't build the product that you need to build.
When everyone needs to send a message to change,
change state on the contracts,
you just can't end up doing things that you need to do.
And so after Terra imploded,
kind of, we sort of took what we'd learned
having built with smart contracts and Cosmwasm and kind of realized that of took what we'd learned having built um with smart contracts and cosmwasm
and kind of realized that if we wanted to we just basically decided to be like completely
product focused and so we sort of been in our been in our cave being product focused for like
the last few years and when you're when you're purely product focused you know that they're
they're just kind of was no other choice for us
other than building with the Cosmos SDK.
When you can start building custom modules
that, you know, execute logic automatically
at the beginning and the end of every block,
you know, you can start creating some of the things
that we have on our blockchain,
like our AMM wouldn't be possible
if it wasn't built with modules.
You know, our DCA module wouldn't be possible. You know, our liquid staking module wouldn't be possible if it wasn't built with modules. You know, our DCA module wouldn't be possible.
You know, our liquid staking module wouldn't be possible without it.
You know, and so on and so on.
So it was a decision based purely on what the best technology was to build the very best product that we could build.
the best technology was to build the very best product that we could,
we could build. I think, I guess, you know,
one of the things we're now doing that kind of, I guess,
like echoes what, um, uh,
so you just saying is like, we, you know,
are now kind of realizing more and more that obviously, you know,
the, the sort of build it and they will come mentality doesn't necessarily
work as well um and people
have kind of you know a lot of people are sort of there's enough to keep them busy on other
blockchains that you really need to be offering something unique or offering a very very easy way
for them to um access your you know your tools your liquidity your your opportunities on your
protocol i think ibc eureka definitely helps with that.
But we're now building a couple of other tools that, you know,
like our asynchronous order book that we're building.
And one or two other things to try and unlock some of that kind of cross-chain liquidity
and cross-chain users so that they can kind of benefit from the tools that we've created without necessarily feeling like they need to leave their,
their kind of like home base, if you will.
So, yeah, so, I mean, that was, that's kind of like why we ended up in Cosmos.
All right. Now I can answer to this question as a builder, but again, as an investor, we are
in Cosmos, as I said, since its inception.
So the reason we liked Cosmos back then was its simplicity, what IBC was, how Cosmos SDK
led many new blockchains to appear out of nowhere for whatever reason. And we liked that
same modularity and how simple things were. As the time passed, we saw that Cosmos was an ecosystem
that didn't have as many exploits and hacks as, let's say, EVM ecosystem, which was very important for us.
It is something really, really important for investors to feel that their money is always
safe.
But truth to be told, Cosmos could be a lot different than it is today.
We saw much unprofessional behavior for a lot of big projects some years back.
We saw people getting millions and fighting on Twitter and Telegram like they were kids
or something.
But I think that the ecosystem is now very mature, how the Cosmo Hub now has a new leadership.
We believe the new leadership is serious people
that will do some serious work.
We see some projects with teams
that have been proven to be professional
through all this time, like of course, Osmosis,
how Alice is here, not that much,
but they have been very supportive and have helped the whole ecosystem
build nice vibes. So yeah, I think that the ecosystem is now very mature. We have started
to see many professionals building. I'm speaking about the teams. And despite we were not
much seen in the past, we now you can now see the cybernetics as
a validator as a group rating tweets on X. And I think it's the
best time now to show our support on the Cosmo Hub and help it get the place it deserves.
The good is that despite the mistakes of the past, the market is still very slow.
So I don't believe that the Cosmos ecosystem has been left behind to a point that it cannot recover. So that's why we're still here.
We believe that Cosmos ecosystem can be a top ecosystem just like Ethereum or Solana.
All right. Just like Ethereum or Solana was quite the interesting point to add on
at the end there. And I'm curious from your perspective, is that because of the sheer
amount of user base that's on Ethereum and Solana?
Actually, yes. A lot of users, a lot of dApps, of course, there are a lot of builders there. Of course, something worth mentioning is that
you see many Ethereum dApps deciding to build an Appchain on Cosmos nowadays. So I think
this just proves that the Cosmos thesis was right all along. Now we just need to build
on that thesis before someone else takes our bike.
I mean, my sort of, I guess, like open-ended question that I wonder myself is like,
Cosmos was the, you know, or Cosmos is slash was the internet of blockchains so you know for me the thing that attracted me to it was um you know uh it was it
was meant to create um the ability to create your own custom blockchain i think so i i think sort of
you know i think as you were alluding to like some of the you know along the way things got lost a little bit we did see we did see you know
very customized blockchains or app chains so things like 4chain terror terror one was um
a bespoke blockchain had it bespoke oracle it had like this bespoke um usd minting mechanism
lunar burning mechanism um obviously osmosis as a custom blockchain but
i think then we started to go down the path where we started seeing uh blockchains that didn't have
any custom uh any custom logic really um you know terra2 i guess juno uh you know one or two others
and and then we've sort of seen a lot of, you know,
forks in Cosmos that kind of like fragment liquidity,
whether that's kind of Cosmosm forks just launching on one blockchain,
you know, one blockchain or another blockchain.
And I think it's obviously with the ICL team taking over,
you know, it's definitely like reinvigorated a lot of new energy into
Like the skip team have built some of the coolest products already that a lot of people
either use and don't know they're using or people do use and absolutely love and know
that they're using.
And so things like Slinky Oracle, things like the Block SDK,
which is the MEV module, which we have integrated into Prism.
Things like GhostKit Build are absolutely amazing pieces
of tech, and now obviously IBC Eureka.
I guess my sort of question or thought is like,
what's the state of Cosmos now?
Like, is it focused, you know, with obviously Stride
now building an AMM on the Cosmos Hub,
and it seems like a bit more focused on getting an NFT platform
on the Cosmos Hub or getting an AMM on the Cosmos Hub
or potentially, you know, other key primitives.
They're looking at money market on the Cosmos hub.
Are we moving away from that internet of blockchains vision
that Cosmos had originally to now being like, okay,
let's create a load of smart contracts on the Cosmos hub
and there's less of a focus on the internet of blockchains?
Or do you think these two things are existing at the same time?
Like, you know, I'm interested in what people feel on it
because obviously like Hesham, you're building time like you know i'm interested in what people feel on it because obviously like hesham you're building a um you know you've got your own l1 hemmy you're part of
an l1 as well like so i'm interested in uh in what you and obviously tony you as a investor and an
outside observer as well i'm interested in what you guys kind of like think of this sort of vision
and direction at the moment and whether it's kind of clear or whether it's sort of time, time will give it a bit more clarity.
Yeah, that's a great question. of what happened with Terra and the centralized exchange collapses along the way, et cetera.
It's been a very difficult ride for a lot of people
who had this vision and wanted to see just really great things
happening for the space.
And it's unfortunate, like in the beginning
of any kind of technology, that you
have to endure these types of events.
It's just the nature of the beast.
So for us, I think that this, to your point
about the leadership at ICL with
Mag and Barry and all the people coming in, this is where I've seen a major shift.
So I've actually seen now that the sentiment has gone back to positive.
There's a lot more collaboration and consensus building.
It's not chain versus chain competition.
It's chain working with chains, working with other chains, DApps working with other dApps to figure out how to,
let's say, bring out the best in each other.
And I think that's really refreshing.
So really it's about building that unified front.
And once we have that, it's a whole lot easier
to go out and acquire that other user
from Solana, EVM, et cetera.
And do you feel it's clear on the,
do you feel like the focus now is more moving towards
building contracts on the Cosmos Hub
and having key primitives on the Cosmos Hub
and slightly less about the internet of blockchains
and providing info for app chains?
I think you'll always have a demand for having app chains exist for various reasons.
But this is just adding one more layer of optionality for people who want to build, who were generally geared towards building on, you know, using
solidity and building on, you know, Ethereum or one of the forks or L2.
This is now marrying the two.
So it's completing the vision of the Internet of Blockchains
rather than pivoting from the vision.
And I think that's super important to clarify
because that's always been at the forefront.
Cosmos has been a leader in this.
And in fact, really, it's Ethereum
that's actually kind of taken a page
out of the playbook from Cosmos.
So I see this as, okay,
when developers are able to now build
apps on directly on the hub they now have access directly to the traditional quote unquote
traditional metamask user and that gives them the ability to build a front end so that the user
doesn't even really know that they're on the hub they might think they're just still on ethereum
and that's really important in terms of kind of you know bringing this all together so i like it i don't think it's going to change you know the the trajectory of still needing to
build app chains for various things but it will certainly change the uh the priorities and change
how people make the decisions on whether to build a chain or adapt
yeah makes makes a lot of sense to me i i guess i'm i'm semi torn because
part of me um part of me really liked our vision before but then part of me was also in the past i
was like why uh if there wasn't if if the cosmos had um if the hub had smart contracts then you
wouldn't have had all these kind of vaporware l1s spring up that uh didn't really offer anything new and were just basically
cloning the cosmos sdk but enabling permissionless cosmo um so i kind of like the idea that there's
now daps on it and as long as that's kind of like dual focus on enabling the internet blockchains but
then creating the creed primitives on the Cosmos Hub.
I do think it's exciting, but I hope that it's,
what I hope is that the primitives on the Cosmos Hub
are going to be like, you know, iterative or evolutionary
rather than sort of just kind of forks of stuff
that's already out there, basically.
Yeah, that's a great point.
I think that is the beauty of the Cosmos SDK
is you marry that with the Cosmosm and EVM capabilities
that have been brought over from Evmos.
And you're really just creating this large canvas
for developers to customize even further.
And I think that's where the innovation piece still has to be at the forefront of the mind of the builders in the space.
One thing that we did exceptionally well over the past seven years or so is we did innovate.
We had developers come in and build things that were really, really incredible.
User experiences and user interfaces weren't quite there yet.
They weren't keeping up.
But we were ahead of our time, so to speak, in terms of being able to customize. And that's not going to stop, in my opinion, I think that'll
actually accelerate. You know, a lot of this is funding limited, you know, it's strategic
partnership limited, it's infrastructure limited, right? So all those things that are coming
together are actually going to accelerate it. So I don't see that being an issue. I know
that we're still kind of, you know, fledgling, so to speak, in the Cosmosm
world, but it is coming together. So when I talk to, you know, a lot of the people that
use it, so for example, I talk to Euclid Protocol, who's, you know, integrating with us in our
testnet right now using permissioned Cosmosm, our chain is permissioned, and then Agoric,
who's doing API orchestration and talking to various other partners who want to come in,
Intento, for example, they all want to come in
and actually get their hands dirty, so to speak,
with implementing Cosmos, and I think it's great.
And so this is where I'm seeing, okay,
some people are excelling building dApps here,
some people are excelling creating their app chain,
some people are excelling with the idea
of migrating to the hub.
And so that is the exact vision and mission
of the Cosmos hub is to give you that optionality.
So I'm optimistic.
And I mean, I think, again, it came down to leadership.
If you remember, this is the second time, right, that we have tried to, you know, have
applications built on the Hub.
The first effort failed.
And the reason the first effort failed really was a lack of unity, right?
Like a lack of communication or maybe too much
competing interest on trying to find a way forward. And we needed to just work that out
through conversation and work it out through, you know, kind of letting time kind of heal some of
the wounds. And here we are, and we're taking a second shot at it. And I think we're doing a,
you know, Mag and Barry are doing an exceptional job at it.
Now, I'd like to throw in a question here as this is
something that got brought up on a space probably I think two or three days ago in regards to the
amount of projects that are being built in the amount of chains that are being brought online
and I'm curious from your perspective especially with Cosmos do you guys ever feel like maybe there's too many different chains being
brought online or do you encourage there to be a multitude of new chains brought online
i mean and that's open yeah people. Yeah. For me, like, it's tough again because I think there's pros and cons, like, from my perspective.
Like, I think I love the fact that anyone can spin up a blockchain using the Cosmos SDK.
Like, I think that's a, you know, I think that's one of the great unlocks of the cosmos sdk um where i what i don't
um love so much is you know kind of like uh the consumer protection side of it like
obviously like spin up a chain do your own thing play it. You know, what I don't love is the, like, mis-selling things to investors
who are kind of, like, looking for opportunities, looking to try and, you know,
you know, we're all out here, like, trying to secure our family's future, etc., etc.
Like, you know, I feel like people need better protection from some of the chains
or some of the things that are spinning
up that are just vaporware with a roadmap that aren't actually shipping anything new or particularly
innovative. I think there's, you know, there have been a few chains that spun up and done that. And
I think, you know, we, we, I think I don't want to, I, I'm not a big fan of like
over regulation or over enforcement
I think as a community
the Cosmos community as a collective
can do a better job of
policing some of these things where
you know the more vulnerable
members of the community who
can get more excited by hype
you know
are looked after in the kind of questions
or the questions are asked of chains that are launching.
You know, what are you actually shipping?
Can we see actual stat like asking the actual technical questions
that, you know, you need to know to be able to decide
whether it's a good investment
or whether you're just yeeting into tokens
of something that's never going to have any revenue
and never going to have any kind of new or innovative product.
All right, I'll pass over to the others.
Yeah, I think that's a really great point.
You know, to get to kind of like, I don't know if this is like a great analogy or not,
but, you know, to look at it this way um i think the statistic out there is
that like more than 90 of restaurants that get opened fail and the question we should ask
ourselves is does this mean people should stop trying to open restaurants and i think the answer
is no right i think that people should continue because there is a demand for this but does every
restaurant out there deserve to exist and so it's kind of the same concept, right? If you take that same analogy and you say, okay, you know, 90 something percent of cryptos are going to fail.
And that's probably a true statement, right?
It's probably going to be higher than that.
It's probably going to be in the high 90s.
Does that mean they shouldn't at least try?
Should they not at least try to bring their product to market?
not at least try to bring their product to market. The difference is, I think, is the access of being
able to purchase or participate in a sale, you know, invest or become a user is pretty direct.
So most users get a chance to touch one of these products right at inception or even before
inception, so to speak, in testnet. Whereas on the private equity side, you know, there's only a
limited amount of people who have access into investing in a small company as it's trying to raise funds before it goes public, for example.
So the average venture capital fund or angel investor or anybody who's taken a chance at these companies already knows in their calculation that they're going to build a portfolio of 30, 50, 100, 200 companies with the expectation that only three to five of those are going to win. And that's really, really important, right? Because
what they're doing is they want to fund development. They want to give the founders
and those teams a chance to bring their product to market. And they understand that involves
writing a check because you have to pay for the development, but it doesn't guarantee their
success. And I think that's a really, really important thing. Us as community members, right? For those of us who,
you know, got into crypto very early on, we've been supportive. We get asking what we like. We
try to support what we like. We try to spread the word, but it doesn't guarantee that it's going to
make it. They still have to have a product market fit. They still have to have user acquisition,
user retention, revenue, to your point, Mr. Fakir,
about all of those elements that lead to a successful project.
But we shouldn't feel bad about that.
We shouldn't feel bad about the natural evolution
of how the cream rises to the top, so to speak.
And I'll leave with one last point on this particular thing,
which is the greatest projects in crypto probably haven't even been built yet.
They probably haven't even been ideated yet.
So we're that early in the space, right?
And I think that that's really important to keep in mind.
I'd love to follow on to that by zooming out and maybe even hitting you
all with like the retail perspective so everyone in this conversation we're all like crypto native
d5 folks we're all building in the cosmos we've been here for years um and i don't even think
this is a hot take anymore but like 99.9999 of crypto crypto is uninvestable, right?
It's a terrible investment.
It's like all of us here are probably not going to invest
in 99% of the people trying to start a restaurant.
It's a tough, risky business.
And crypto's got many more layers of complexity to it
around how even a token accrues or is accruing value,
if ever at all, right?
Like there's so many layers of like complexity around even like the economics of a token. And if it even needs to exist, I think on one hand, it's really exciting that everyone,
whether institutions or individuals can now invest on like day one, right?
Like on ground level and in a project and a company and a startup and an idea.
The reality also is that the majority of retail should not be investing in most cryptocurrencies
or in general, like if you're looking at like even Gen Alpha and a lot of the people who are the future, the next generation of investors, they're by putting all of your eggs in one basket.
And even if you're investing in 50 to 100 different cryptocurrencies, that technically is still putting your eggs in the same single basket here.
Right. Hopefully most of us have been around enough to know that you should have conviction, have conviction, but also diversify potentially, right?
And I think that if we really zoom out and then look forward to what matters beyond,
even beyond like everything that, you know, I can't remember who just said,
like the greatest things haven't been built yet.
I actually think that if we talk about even like
a product philosophy for a second, I think that we're all here optimizing a lot of the wrong
things like trade volume and, you know, number go up on all fronts. And the only way we build
an industry that has longevity and survives and thrives is if our users and the people who are
investing in our products also are given that longevity, which means most of those users
shouldn't invest in literally everything that you and I and everyone in this conversation are
excited about because they are all going to inevitably get rugged one way or another.
So I think even if we're, not to pivot things too much here,
but even if we're talking about like the future of what we're all building,
I hope that we're delivering, you know,
we're not necessarily encouraging our users to acquire 100 to 1000 different assets,
but we're here to help them on a much longer journey,
which is like part of how we're thinking about things at Polaris as well, right?
Like, you know, where I think so many of us are just used to the deck screeners
and pump dot funds of the world.
And even if we're talking about the majority of assets like on osmosis,
we need to move away from the casino that crypto is.
It'll always be somewhat of a casino.
And we need to start shipping experiences.
And good UX is a UX that prioritizes, hopefully, our users succeeding in the long term, right?
Not just near term where they might 100x something and then lose it all tomorrow.
Because if that happens, they're not going to stick around.
So hopefully, we're all building towards that collectively here.
And I think that's the only way we actually build, like all of us will be
building products that have longevity, that'll be meaningful to our users three
to five to 10 years from now.
I think that, you know, not that this is the right approach, but Robinhood and
Coinbase are clearly, if we look at their quarterly reports from like
when there was a lot of hype even a couple months ago, are like far outpacing any of us here in this
conversation. And to some extent, it's because they're also not feeding their users every random
asset that is probably not in their best interest. So obviously all of us are here to make every asset accessible, right?
That's the whole point of being on chain.
Hopefully all of us have the opportunity to invest in anything we want on day one.
And that's a beautiful thing.
But how we surface that, how we hold the hands of our users
is arguably just as important, if not more.
I know that was a bit of a pivot as far as what we're all here
building, but I think that's an important philosophy
for all of us to be keeping in mind.
Yeah, that's really, really great points there.
And I'm glad you brought up Coinbase
and the centralized exchanges because we're very keenly
interested in that side of things.
Because we want to know why a user likes to stay on a
platform like Coinbase versus exploring what the amazing things that Cosmos can bring, right? So
for example, you know, I post about this a lot where, you know, I'm a Coinbase user, right? So
by user, I mean, I bring my USDC into the blockchain space, you know, into the Web3 space
through Coinbase and then I get it off Coinbase pretty quickly. But I always try to do comparisons of, okay, I'm going to go on Osmosis, I'm going to go on Uniswap,
I'm going to go on Ellis, I'm going to go on Neutron, and I'm going to check out some swaps,
right? So I regularly do this, and I see, for example, if I'd like to do purchase $1,000 worth
of Bitcoin or $1,000 worth of Ethereum, When I go to those platforms, I'm getting maybe if I'm lucky about 970,
980 dollars worth of that, my money. Right?
So if I trade a thousand worth,
I get 980 worth of Bitcoin or 970 worth of Ethereum.
So those centralized exchanges are taking $30 or more on the spread.
They're telling you, and sometimes, you and sometimes if you're like a premium member or
whatever you might be, they'll say, oh, no fee trading. But what they're actually doing is
changing the market price on you, right? They're just including a spread in the actual price of
the token. So you're actually paying above market price for those tokens. And so I just wonder,
I'm so perplexed. I say, how do people actually throw so much money at these centralized exchanges?
They're willingly taking a really bad trade, taking a bad spread on the trade, when they could have done this swap on osmosis for like a couple pennies, right?
Or on Ellis, you know, in some cases with our swaps, with our pool designs, you actually get more.
So I demoed a $1,000 swap yesterday or a one Ethereum swap on Ellis the other day where you actually got more
than what the Ethereum was worth
because of our pool balance reward mechanism.
And this is the type of problem that like I wanna solve,
right, I wanna make sure that users are even aware
because I think the number one reason is
they don't quite know how to cross the bridge
from centralized exchange over to Cosmos.
So how do we get them there? I think it's been
mentioned over and over again on the space is you got to give them a good user experience.
For the most part, they're liking being on a centralized exchange because they can log in,
they can do everything in one app, they feel a little bit comfortable because it's a big entity,
even though they're relinquishing self-custody. And even though they have to do KYC, and even
though they have to do all these other, you know, jump through all these other hoops and connect their bank account, etc.
They still would rather do that and throw their money at those exchanges on fees rather than come and take care of it on the self-custody side.
And that's our problem to fix, right?
This is where we have the opportunity.
Again, I say the asymmetry is the opportunity because we can build great login experiences.
That's one of the things that we do at Ellis, right?
We let you log in with a Google account if you don't have a Kepler or a Metamask because
we want it to be super easy for you.
We want you to be able to jump from device to device, log in, get your funds on there,
start trading, stake, do leverage LP.
We launch perks next week.
We want it to be that centralized exchange feel without all the friction, without
all the KYC, without all the, you know, onerous fees. And I think that's where we got to go,
right? And we talk about it all the time, but we have to, to your point, say it about
looking forward, looking ahead and getting to that point where you actually get the development
to where it needs to be. You're going to have a massive inflow of users. And when you look at the crypto market right now,
3.4 trillion market cap, I believe, or whatever, it's a binary outcome.
Is crypto here to stay?
Because if it is, that market cap is going to go 10, 20 trillion, 30 trillion.
And if it's not, the market cap is going to go to zero.
And that's it, right?
It's not just going to sit here at 3 trillion.
It either accelerates or it goes to zero.
And I think that's a really important thing to keep in mind because that doesn't mean
that these cryptos will succeed most of them like you said are going to go to zero but the successful
cryptos will absolutely take off accelerate bring millions of users in and it'll be one of those
things where the the majority of crypto participants are users rather than investors.
And so you all here listening to this space are probably investors and users,
but the next incremental people coming into crypto might just be users because they like the app because it replaces their banking app or they like the
streaming app because it replaces their Netflix subscription, et cetera, et cetera.
Ooh, yes. Hesham, I agree with a lot of that.
And I want to add some hot takes.
So over the past few years, we've been talking to so many of our users.
And I think that hopefully some of the things I'm going to share will be meaningful insights
for all of us here, all of us building.
One, users don't care about fees.
I know all of us in this conversation do.
We are going to optimize for the fastest route.
We're going to optimize for the $10, $100, $0.10 that we might save.
That's all of us here.
All of us here are early adopters.
And that's the key thing to keep in mind.
So yes, Coinbase will rip you off of hundreds of dollars and then also abstract away where
those fees are going in the most nebulous, non-transparent way.
But even many of us in this conversation, I bet you are using centralized exchanges,
whether it's Robinhood or Coinbase, for a couple of things, the biggest one just being
convenience.
We don't care.
I don't think people are lazy.
I think people want the path of least resistance.
And on top of that, they want trust.
Those are two of the biggest pillars, I think.
And trust and path of least resistance kind of go hand in hand, right?
Like, I don't even think we need to talk about like,
yeah, not that this should be a hot take anymore, but I don't think good UX is anything
that matters to anyone.
Like if you go talk to the millions of people
who got onboarded into meme coins last year on TikTok
or any other web to, you know, retail medium. I don't think any of them
will care about. I don't think any of them will outright think something had a good experience.
And that's the reason that they used a product. They wanted access to an asset. They trusted the
medium, hopefully in which they acquired that asset. And was it and ideally it was easy for a lot a
lot of us even crypto native folks today like a lot of the people we've talked to during interviews
sometimes my mind is blown that like the most degen defy native people will still conduct half
their swaps cross-chain swaps, mind you, on centralized exchanges, paying whatever fee, because they
need to make a swap in the next five to 10 seconds to ape into something super fast on
a chain they don't have assets on.
And it is what it is.
It totally is what it is.
So that leads to the big question then is how do all of us here compete with centralized
exchanges, right?
Where they have trust, they have user
trust already. And things are easy enough, like let's disregard fees, let's disregard, you know,
like, even transactions, let's disregard self custody, I actually think self custody is a
terrible UX that none of us should be, all of us hopefully, you know, stand behind because of,
be all of us hopefully you know stand behind because of um you know i think our core philosophies
and why we're all here like self-custody is a good thing what it leads to for a user experience
is absolutely not right i don't think um and even things like privacy so so how do we actually like
compete in a meaningful way with centralized exchanges i think we need to go way further
way with centralized exchanges. I think we need to go way further, way further than simply good UX
and self-custody. I don't think those things matter. We need to shake things up. And I think
if any of you are following along with Polaris, sure. The premise is all tokens, all chains,
right? Like all networks, one app. And maybe that was the thing that we were leading with.
And even like at the center of our identity, six to nine months ago, to all of us here,
hopefully that's exciting.
Oh, you can finally connect every single wallet you have and trade any asset you want.
I don't think any of that matters.
I think that's all the magical foundation that needs to live underneath like to
all of us again hopefully that's exciting and refreshing that you can connect your your
capital wallet and trade your your atom or your your osmo for for bitcoin like native bitcoin
and bitcoin or hype and hyper evm stuff great amazing but we need to go way beyond that if
we're going to compete with centralized exchanges,
we need to be innovating in not delivering a vitamin, but a painkiller.
We need to be giving our users something that the centralized exchanges
will not give their users, that they can't give their users.
I think some of the very exciting things that we're exploring right now are,
hopefully all of us are thinking about,
is how are we going to live in a world two to three to five years from now
with both privacy as a default layer of how we're operating?
Because none of your grandmas or parents or brothers
are about to use crypto as their end all be all for everything
until your bank account and your credit card statements
aren't fully
transparent to everyone in the world, right? That's wild that we accept that as a reality today.
But then on top of that, what does the future of investing look like with AI, right? There's so much
exciting AI scaffolding that will hopefully be baked in, is being baked in the Colaris right now,
that I know Robinhood and Coinbase
are rapidly competing to add in.
But I think an exciting angle here is
Robinhood is never going to take a massive leap
at this stage at the risk of alienating
or churning 1% of their audience.
And I think that is an angle
all of us need to be thinking with, right?
Like we are small, we're all smaller, nimble teams,
no matter how many users we think we have today,
relative to a Robinhood and a Coinbase.
If Robinhood is going to ship an AI agent
that will invest on your behalf
or give you the scaffolding to make recommendations,
which is already entering maybe a hazy territory,
at the risk of turning one to 5% of their users,
that's a risk they're not going to take.
But that's a risk that we can take as an industry.
That's a risk that if we ship well,
the hundreds of, hopefully the millions of people
that are still curious about crypto,
that will be onboarded in the next six months to year to years
because they're following along and the moment Bitcoin's making headlines again,
they're going to discover crypto again.
They're not going to discover it on crypto Twitter.
They're not here.
They're going to discover it on TikTok, Instagram and every other channel that most of us need to be spending more time on.
They're going to, of course, know that they can acquire something
on a Robinhood or Coinbase.
They probably all already have Robinhood and Coinbase,
but will they do well if they're acquiring it on Robinhood or Coinbase?
Are they going to understand what they're investing in?
I think that's another interesting angle.
It's like for Polaris, one thing we're going to shift soon is,
why has nobody reinvented CoinGecko and CoinMarketCap yet?
I think that's crazy. All of us here are looking at a wall of data, right? And maybe some of us
understand what low float, high FTP is, but why are we not looking at able to like even do our
research in a way that's more human friendly? So I think that if we ship things that are more
human friendly with meaningful like AI scaffolding, not even like an agent that's investing on your behalf.
That's like a huge leap, right? None of us here probably want that to happen.
I think that's how we compete with centralized exchanges.
We push the bounds not on good UX for the sake of it being good UX alone.
We actually reinvent parts of the user journey that these bigger exchanges won't touch.
And I think that's where things get really exciting.
Maybe the last point I'll throw in here is distribution is huge, right?
Coinbase and Robinhood obviously have great distribution that many of us will struggle
to compete with, but we also live in a day and age where people trust people.
They don't trust companies.
And look at where the last wave of users came on from, right?
There is a, if you're looking at a lot of these exchanges, the trending section, some
of the trending sections were trending on TikTok.
I don't think we're bullish enough on TikTok.
I think that every week, you know, during, as a, maybe a shameless plug here, at least
when things were taken off with trump three months ago when things were
really really taken off every week i was getting a video to do half a million views at least one
video maybe two if you convert 10 of those users every time getting another 50 000 users in your
product every week is way better as far as growth and onboarding goes than anything i think exists
today you know all of us here competing for the same pie.
We're churning users from your product to our product to someone else's product.
And just trading users from one to the other is, I think, a losing game that is, like,
not benefiting anyone.
And I think trust is something that also comes with distribution.
And that's an interesting, like, take I've been running with here.
It's like, if you can own distribution well, and you are that point of education, that first point of contact with a new user, and you are a voice that they recognize, you also win their trust.
that they recognize, you also win their trust.
And, you know, Coinbase and Robinhood aren't on a TikTok
or Reels, like, pushing meaningful content.
I think we all have an opportunity to grow the pie.
We just need to be thinking a little more strategically about it.
We also all need to be thinking a little more about, like,
the definition of what we're shipping.
I think good UX is, like, we've been saying it for years.
Good UX is almost something we shouldn't even have
to talk about anymore.
It should just, it should be good UX no matter what,
but we need to be thinking about the differentiating features
that are a pain killer over vitamin D.
Oh, man, there was so many hot takes,
but also so many good points to be brought up
in all of that.
And I would love to actually hear from Tony on this from an investor perspective.
I know we're really close to the top of the hour.
If we have to close it out, that's totally okay, guys.
But I would love to hear, Tony, as far as on the investor side of things,
if you have any response to what Sage has said.
Actually, the guys covered everything. Something I just
wanted to comment on whatever we hear is that I love how teams
in Cosmos nowadays focus on actively making web three a
better place and more user friendly place and how they can
grow competing centralized platforms, which which is the actively making web3 a better place a more user-friendly place and how they can grow
competing centralized platforms which which is the which is the way they are the true
rival here and this just proves that cosmos now has professionals people having a real work ethic, building no matter the market conditions, which let's not lie about it.
It's hard for many teams, but it's great seeing them building and building hard and harder.
Now regarding the question, I have to say that there's nothing wrong with experiments. Everyone can try and do stuff, but reality
is that when you decide to launch a token, things become very complicated then. And I
think people should be very, very careful when they decide to do so. I think that's all I have to say.
The other guys covered everything.
Yeah, I'll add that Seyed, you know, brings up a really good point that UX is not like the thing
that's going to get people to come over. It should just be baked into everything that we do so it should just seamlessly work it's just the problem is i think right now a
lot of people are still struggling to be able to actually get their hands on a specific application
if i want to show my friends how osmosis works or how neutron works or how you know any chain works
they really struggle with just like okay how do i start how do
i get there right and so that's that's a problem right and i think the difference was if for those
who are old enough to remember the blackberry days the blackberry transition to the iphone
you never had to like have an instruction packet or instruction list to get your iphone started
you just turned it on and it worked and that's, again, that wasn't the thing that made the iPhone amazing. It's just that it just completely removed an element or a
barrier that would otherwise just kept people from putting it in their hands. So that's kind
of where I see the opportunity in terms of converting users over from centralized exchanges.
is it's just so many people 300 million people and i don't i don't think that they're there
It's just so many people, 300 million people. And I don't think that they're there.
no convenience is definitely the number one they're there but i don't think they they want to
stay there necessarily if there's a blackberry to iphone moment right where there's oh wow wait
i can do this and it's not that hard and it's actually pretty simple for me to just go on
osmosis or players this is pretty awesome and so that moment is coming right and i and that's you know i took my hat to all the people
who are building that and making that happen because uh when it does happen it's gonna happen
quickly right it's gonna be a very very um uh exponential event when all these people come over
so i'm i couldn't be more excited about what's coming oh i think i'd add oh go ahead sorry you go for it no i was i was just gonna say like i i
think for me you know when you when you talk about the black breeder iphone moment like i
i think that's a good analogy and like i think you know the way i'd look at it is i'd say that
those those two things really like yes they both made phone calls but in a weird way they were
completely different products.
It was such an evolution or revolution even.
And I think one thing that sort of I find a little bit frustrating
in crypto generally at the moment is like a fixation in like,
okay, let's create, you know, let's move people over from centralized exchanges
or let's move people, let's create another perpdex
and move people over from a perpdex to an on-chain perpdex.
I think, you know, the market has suffered things like FTX,
you know, BlockFi, various other different, you know,
Celsius, et cetera, et cetera.
And for some reason, the market seems to be showing that it still doesn't really care about self-custody,
despite having these blowups.
Like, Saeed, your point about privacy, you know, like, I still find it,
I still find it that despite, you know, like data breaches at Coinbase and other places
where literally hackers are getting hold of your data or your wallet, you know,
potentially like your home address,
your wallets that you've traded with, like, et cetera, et cetera.
Like this is,
this is real valuable stuff that's potentially getting leaked and the market
still doesn't really seem to,
doesn't really seem to care about this kind of stuff.
We're seeing some of the things like, you know,
some of the kidnappings that are now happening,
you know, like ledger employees and other kind of like, you know,
high-profile crypto people, sort of these kind of things,
like they should matter,
but it seems like the majority of people don't really seem to be caring about it.
I think like what's really going to move people on on chain is offering um offering some kind of product or service that
is so useful for them that it isn't available that isn't available in a in a easy onboarding
centralized way um i mean we're trying it with what we did like that was kind of like part of
the reason of what we why we're doing what we're doing just because you know my my background was
like i was trading obviously trading yield swaps with like hedge funds and um private equity and
asset managers and i was like this is kind of crazy that retail aren't allowed to trade these
products like all of these products that um are the foundations of corporate debt, government debt, auto loans, mortgages, etc.
Retail weren't allowed to participate in it.
And now we've, you know, now like the example I give, it's like now we've onboarded USDY on Prism, which is effectively um u.s treasury yield now retail investors for like the
first time ever can actually trade u.s and speculate on treasury yields which like they just
they were just never able to do that before where you're never able to totalize the yield and trade
a six-month yield for three months or nine months for six months etc etc and so like i don't think i'm not giving that as an
example of like a as a as like a revolution but i'm saying like we need to offer people products
and services that aren't available in centralized solutions and that's why i think things like
polaris are super cool because you know it's any token to any other token whereas if you go on a centralized exchange now and you
want to swap some you know some east for some i don't know some some other coin you have to go
east to bitcoin to the other coin or east to us and c to then to that other coin etc so it's like
a couple of swaps where it's like it's nice when you have rooting software like polaris or ghost git build
or um or you know i i really like one inch cow swap those kind of things on ethereum
um but yes it's like it's it's like you were saying hashem like i think the products that
move people on chain in there in you know in the tens of millions haven't been built yet and i think
that's what that's where i'd love to get excited and where i'd like to invest my time in my capital
and my uh you know any sort of any experience where i can help in things that are going to be
like new evolution and new and an actual new reason new product for people to go on chain rather than you know trying to say trying to often people centralize the experience but
decentralized because i think the market has just shown at the moment that for some reason it still
doesn't care about self-custody and privacy whereas i think i really think they should but it just
doesn't yeah i don't i don't think that uh i think a lot of us are excited to build the right things, but we
should reframe our take to realize that all of these right things from self-custody, privacy,
being on chain should all be the beautiful magical layer that lives underneath that a
user should never have to know about but still gets.
And I know that maybe is counter to what a lot of us are excited about,
but users will never care.
And it's in the best interest of a user that they will never care.
We have to deliver value on top of all of those things.
I think that one thing I disagree with is Coinbase's mission,
or base is just like, bring the world on chain.
I don't I also don't think that's the right take.
If you have to explain that to your neighbor or your friend or your grandma,
then we're all just going to be in this tiny early adopter pie forever.
I think that you don't have to understand how the Internet works or you don't have to feel like you're online.
You just care that you can use a product
that does something meaningful for you.
And maybe just to drop a little bit of early alpha here,
but Hesham, I agree that onboarding onto osmosis
or getting anyone on chain sucks.
It's crazy.
I think the tricky thing with osmosis is you have to...
One of our biggest learnings is having to onboard into something should never be work.
You're depositing funds, you're learning about bridges, you're bridging funds,
you're understanding all liquidity, all the things that no one should ever have to know about.
And it's great that all of us have figured that out thus far.
Everyone else who's coming on chain or into crypto should never even understand what that,
have to understand what any of that is.
So for the next version of Polaris, there's a huge update that's coming that was hinted at early on,
which is also just wallet abstraction.
Forget wallets.
The next version of Polaris will one be on mobile right
because all of us here might be on desktop but 99 of everyone else is just hanging out on mobile
and the next version means you can trade any asset without any wallet um using npc vaults is the
technical maybe jargon behind the scene here but the idea is that a user can connect all the wallets you have if you want or just nothing, right?
Just download Polaris.
Tell your grandma to download Polaris from the App Store.
And fiat onramp in, trade every single asset, any asset they ever wanted to.
Understand what those assets are.
Do research in a way that's human-friendly.
Ideally, invest in an abstract way of the things that you and I, all of us here, take for granted, like understanding what dollar cost averaging is and stop losses and limit buys and sells and make that all just human friendly.
Give people the AI scaffolding they need. I know these are some examples, but again,
we need to be shipping product experiences
that a centralized exchange isn't,
and ideally abstract away all of the jargon
that all of us at this point have blind spots to,
because a user should never need a wallet,
a user should never know what a bridge is,
a user should never know what liquidity is,
or what a DEX is, or what the liquidity venue is.
And hey, maybe there's a future in which
osmosis is the liquidity layer, is what we're thinking,
and Polaris is the front app, is the interface.
I think by owning the interface,
you check a lot of the right boxes, right?
And I think maybe just to wrap this point up,
I had a lovely call with a user last week,
which blew my mind.
It was the first real retail user I've ever talked to,
not just I've been, you know,
I've been on Osmosis for years.
I'm a Cosmos fan, blah, blah, blah.
This is a guy that joined crypto nine months ago
when things things when the
hype was just starting up right for the holidays and his friend onboarded him onto osmosis briefly
uh it was all right he's lived his life on centralized exchanges and then he discovered
polaris when we when we launched the alpha and he said that for the first time in his life
he was able to trade a trending asset. And even if he wasn't
super early, because we all know here that you have to be really early for any of that to matter.
He was like, it felt life-changing to me because I was finally able to just see what was trending,
buy that asset immediately and have it and sit on it. And spending life up until now on
centralized exchanges only, he just never had that opportunity.
So there are even little things that are lovely about being on chain and making it. And hopefully the next level is forget wallets, forget all of the above. We just ship the, we ship things that
actually matter to users on their journey, wherever they are. And that's, that's how we, I think all
of us here can here can build more restaurants
that will hopefully out-compete the 99 other restaurants
out there that are all building the same thing,
regurgitated over and over that users don't need
or care about.
Ooh, I love all of this.
And honestly, guys, it's been an amazing morning
having this conversation.
And there has been some truly impressive takes.
So I'm very glad that this has been recorded, especially for anyone from the Cosmos community.
This is going to be an epic one to go back and listen over again.
Now, I would love to give each of you guys some kind of like ending thoughts as far as the space goes.
I got to close it out in a few minutes because I do have to go to a meeting.
But Hasham, is there anything you would like to say as far as closing thoughts today?
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. It's been a real pleasure and an honor to be on with these
esteemed guests. I really learned a lot from everyone else speaking as well.
You know, I think just my message to everybody who's listening is, you know, have that long-term vision, recognize where Cosmos is
going to and how you can support it, whether you're going to be a builder, a founder, a user,
a community member, someone who participates in governance, be active, take control of what you
want to see in the space, build consensus, right? Use constructive criticism, give constant feedback,
do all of those things.
Because if you're sitting back and not participating,
someone else is dictating it for you.
So be a part of the process, do it in a professional,
do it in a very courteous manner.
And we're gonna do really, really big things together.
I do ask anybody who has very, very strong opinions about something
to just think about how you can be a beacon of leadership and collaboration
and motivating others through positivity versus being a naysayer,
versus FUD, versus, oh, we're all wrecked, or oh, it's another bear market, right? All of
those things, human emotions definitely come into play. But remember, you can be the champion of
what you want to see in this world. And I wholeheartedly believe that because I'm watching
it happen, right? I'm watching what's going on with the strong leadership we have from ICL,
and I wholeheartedly support that effort, and I hope you guys do too. So thank you for this opportunity.
Thank you as well, Hashem.
And that was a wonderful way to send things off.
Mr. Refractor, I would love to hear your closing thoughts as well.
Yeah, thanks very much for hosting and great to meet everyone else on space as well. And echo Hesham that, you know,
that's been super interesting to hear everyone's perspectives
and some of the alpha leaks.
I think like, yeah, like all I'd say is I think one of the great things
about Cosmos and all the app chains on Cosmos and, you know,
and dApps on top of those app chains is that Cosmos is super cheap to use.
And I think, you know,
one of the things that I'd strongly advocate that people do is just take
whatever is a small amount to you, whether that's, you know,
10 cents or half a dollar or a dollar or a couple of dollars and go and try,
go and try some stuff out on Cosmos,
like even if it's an absolutely tiny amount that you're doing,
just so you can see how some of these processes and these dApps and these innovations work,
like whether it's borrow, lend, whether it's doing a swap on osmosis,
whether it's trying out Polaris, whether it's doing some stuff
on Prism or on LS, et cetera.
Like you can go cover off a lot
and spend a very tiny amount doing it
and you'll learn an absolutely huge amount
throughout the process.
And you'll probably also be able to give us,
you know, give us builders some great feedback
about, you know, what works for you,
what doesn't work for you, what was confusing,
what was, you know, what was good.
So, you know, it's, we're building all of this stuff for users.
And so getting feedback and, you know, thoughts from people is so helpful for us.
But yeah, like, appreciate everyone tuning in and spending the time listening to this on a Thursday.
And yeah, thanks very much for the opportunity.
Wonderful, wonderful. And Tony, yourself, how about you? Some final thoughts?
I think that Cosmos has some amazing builders.
I think everyone listening to this space can understand that every single team works very hard.
that every single team works very hard. But something I would like to add is that no matter
how good the project is, every single project needs to have some good partnerships. Because
even if you have the best project in the world, competition and some other, let's say, partnerships
can be really, really brutal to you and eventually the project fails.
I'm confident that Cosmos is now more aligned than ever and we see some great partnerships
and collaboration across many projects.
And yeah, I think that's all.
I definitely see some amazing partnerships coming together in the cosmos atmosphere.
So it'll be pretty wonderful to see how the rest of this year alone turns out,
especially as the ecosystem continues to grow.
Now, Saeed, final closing thoughts here, and then I'm going to close out the space.
How about you, Good Say?
Yeah, let's all remember that we're building for people.
I think let's always just keep that in mind, everyone here.
Even if we're building things that are infrastructure related, at the end of the day, we're not building for ourselves.
We're building things that are infrastructure related. At the end of the day, we're not building for ourselves, here we're building for people.
And the more we're keeping that in mind,
the more critical we're thinking about the things
that we're shipping and the bigger the pie we're growing.
So whether it's growth related, whether it's product related,
whether it's technical and we're just building,
I can't remember who said this earlier,
but yeah, if you build it, they won't come.
So that's just never how it works.
Let's remember that we need to be growing the pie for everyone
and making things easier for people,
shipping things of value for people.
And the more of us that are doing that,
the more will accelerate for all of us.
I think Osmosis is a great start.
The Cosmosis is a really good start.
It's still the Bedrock Foundation,
but for all of us to get to the next level,
we have to be growing the pie
and building
for non-crypto natives as well. So yeah, super, super stoked to be on this today. Excited for all
of us to keep building. And again, as said earlier, there's so many things that haven't even been
built yet. And we all have a chance to build some of those things that will be the groundbreaking, life changing things that are ahead of us.
Wonderful. I know I'll be watching the cosmos atmosphere pretty heavily.
I say atmosphere probably because I keep on thinking cosmos instead of ecosystem.
I almost feel like it fits better at times. I don't know.
But either way
Cosmos as a whole is definitely something where there's there's so much good actually being built and
as far as web 3 goes I feel like
Some of the newer innovations are coming together on cosmos where other blockchains kind of
Maybe not Helped the the bigger picture as much as we had hoped
So I'm definitely looking
forward to seeing where you guys go from here and uh everyone down below everyone in the crowd
please make sure you're following these people up on stage today they are wonderful minds within the
scene and they also have an astounding amount of information in regards to what's going on in
cosmos but also their own projects.
So please make sure if you want that alpha, you are following them and make sure that
you are checking out these projects on the day to day because you never know what's going
to come out next.
And there's totally a very good chance that the best thing is still yet to come.
So just thank you guys for being here today.
And thank you everyone for joining up on this GenZo space.
This is Tokibusa.
Over and out, y'all.
Have a good one.
Bye, guys. Thank you.
