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Building Interop on Sui with Ika projects
Recorded: July 17, 2025 Duration: 0:49:42Space Recording
Short Summary
Eka is set to launch a transformative project that redefines wallet services in Web3, with partnerships enhancing security and user experience. The discussion highlights the importance of decentralized solutions for Bitcoin yield and interoperability, showcasing a trend towards innovative blockchain applications.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. Great day, great day, everybody.
Thanks, y'all, for joining early and promptly.
We're going to, as usual, let this percolate for a few minutes,
let folks join,
and then we are going to get it rolling. Thank you. Okay.
This is likely to be quite a robust space.
So I say let's go forth and commence again. Thank again thank you everybody for pulling up today and joining this space i have a feeling this is going to be a well attended space
and why don't we get played back uh so getting right into it today the focus the spotlight
the sign the love is squarely on eka eka formerly det. They've been working on something pretty remarkable for quite some time.
And the launch is imminent.
It's imminent.
And so the intention today is to allow Eka directly, as well as some of the folks building
on top of Eka, to speak to what's being done, why it is a game changer, the unlocks that
it allows for each of these individual protocols.
And then, of course, Sam made the time to join us today as well
to give his own thoughts and feedback from his unique point of view as well.
But this is going to be a really fun one.
I'm Savon. I'm on the partnerships team at Mystic Labs.
I'm not really going to be doing a whole lot of talking.
I'm just going to be teeing it up and let everybody else add their thoughts in.
But to start with, let's go ahead and let's start with you sam and then we're going to go through all the people building on eca and then we're going to end on
you david so you can kind of uh open it up for us but sam uh please introduce yourself for those
who've been living under a rock and don't know who you are sure thing thanks saylon uh so i'm
sam i'm the co-founder and CTO of
Mistin Labs, creator of the Move programming language. Day-to-day, I work on SWE, I work
on Move, I work on Walrus, I work with SWE community teams that are building awesome
stuff on SWE and on Walrus. My favorite teams to work with are teams who are really technically
ambitious and the Eka team maybe checks that box more than anyone else. So excited to be
here today, just getting people to understand their tech and partners
and getting excited before their launch.
Let me kick it to whoever's next.
Nanak, let's go with you.
And I apologize if I mispronounced your name.
No, you actually said it perfectly,
which is rare if I'm just reading it.
So thank you.
So yeah, I'm a co-founder of Human Tech,
and we're building Human Wallet on Ica.
So Human Wallet is what we call Wallet as a Protocol.
You see a lot of Wallet as a Service,
and we know Wallet as a Service is the best way right now
to onboard people to Web3.
The future of Web3 is logging in really simply to any dApp,
logging in with social accounts, logging in with email, phone number, passwords,
all these Web2 familiar ways of logging in.
This is how we're going to reach the masses, of course.
But then the question is, can you actually do that in a way that's self-custodial and secure?
And so ECO really solves this problem because right now, currently, there's a lot of custody
assumptions in this space. So doing it in a way that's actually secure against, for example,
that's actually secure against for example malware against attacks the
front-end against users losing their devices and in a way where no company
running the water service can conceal that is is a problem that Ika finally
solves for the first time that you know that we've ever seen so we're super
excited to be building on Ika
fantastic Robert So we're super excited to be building on ICO. Fantastic. Robert.
Hello, hello everyone. I'm super glad to be of this amazing set of speakers.
I'm a co-founder of Native. My background is actually in private banking, commodity trading, market intelligence.
And building on blockchain since the beginning of 2017, that's when I did my first startup.
And that was a startup related to commodity trading and blockchain.
It was way before adoption for that.
And over the years, yes, I was a core contributor to Ethereum, the GAF client, lead engineer
in Cosmos, Cosmos SDK, launched the Cosmos chains, and now super happy to build with the revolution of DeFi happening on 3 and notably powered by Bitcoin.
Thank you for that Robert.
Definitely we'll have some questions coming back to you later around developer experience
given your track record across Ethereum and Cosmos.
And last but not least, David, good sir, sir please remind the people for those who also have
been under a rock or under a squid maybe oh did twitter rug david or did it wreck me? Can y'all still hear me? Can I get some emojis if I'm still coming through?
Okay, David.
All right, y'all.
I think the ops wrecked David, so we'll give him a second.
You're about to say something, Sam, go ahead.
i was saying i think we need to get him up here to the speaker
Sam, I think we need to get him up here to the speaker.
yeah david is a g3h and he's a market listener sorry yeah yeah exactly it was uh it was demoted
to a listener but uh you can hear me now yes okay perfect um yeah great to be here with everyone
um some of my favorite people here on the space.
And yeah, I'm David.
I'm one of the co-founders of IKA.
We are a team that come from a background of cybersecurity and cryptography.
That's kind of our expertise. And that's also the starting point of how we tackle this very big problem of, you know, we say interoperability, but I think it's even more than interoperability.
It's actually taking the very basic principles of blockchain, which are zero trust.
The whole purpose of a blockchain is to remove the need for a user to trust any
centralized entity or any third party and to apply the same concept of zero trust to
access control, to interoperability, to all these things that were some of the biggest problems
in crypto until today. So in interoperability,
I think it's a pretty much a consensus when people say that interoperability is broken and
that bridges are not a good solution. Access control is a pretty universally agreed upon
problem where, you know, private keys are this very, very rudimentary mechanism for access control that is kind of hindering mass adoption.
And I think IKA is a really, really important building block in order to be able to finally solve these things without compromising on the most basic guarantees and fundamentals of blockchain.
the most basic guarantees and fundamentals of blockchain.
All right, now we're starting to get into the deep end of it, so let's keep going.
I'm going to try to repeat back part of the summary of what I heard you just lay out,
but it sounds like at its fundament, what you all set out to do with Ica is to modernize
access controls and take it beyond the kind of rudimentary key management
that has more or less been the standard in cryptography of blockchains up to this point.
Is that a fair characterization? And if not, can you please elaborate and better elucidate folks on
precisely what the innovation is that y'all are driving with Eka that makes things like the D-wallets
possible. Yeah, I think that access control is probably the most accurate way to describe it.
It's not the most effective, let's say, marketing messaging, just because most people don't really
understand what does that mean, right? What does access control actually mean? And
don't really understand what does that mean, right?
What does access control actually mean?
And what does it mean when you have it
in a decentralized and programmable way
or you don't have it?
But that's why we're focusing more on
like very concrete use cases,
like, you know, native with Bitcoin programmability
and the human tech team with custody.
And there are other like very, you know,
interesting interoperable DeFi or there are a
lot of very interesting use cases that derive from this very fundamental problem of access control.
And when I say access control, I mean, how do you determine when things are supposed to or aren't
supposed to happen, right? When you're in, let's say, a closed environment, a single blockchain like SUI, then access control is determined within the rules of the network, things become much more complicated and you need to start relying on trusted third parties or intermediaries in order to provide that level of access control.
Beyond that, we always have this problem of the access to the blockchain itself because blockchains are very, very radical and are based on cryptography.
cryptography, it creates a very problematic user experience.
It creates a very problematic user experience.
And, you know, teams like Sui have created really cool solutions like ZK Login, for example,
in order to solve these problems without, you know, giving up on the fundamentals of
blockchain and on crypto.
But again, these are only relevant
within the SUI ecosystem,
within the SUI blockchain.
And since we, you know,
notably Bitcoin,
but there are also a lot of other chains,
whether public chains
or private enterprise chains
that are becoming more and more relevant
and prominent,
we need to have a decentralized version
of this access control experience that can apply across all of these blockchains.
And that's where Ika comes in.
Got it. about eka it's struck me it's struck me that uh it's often most powerful when people do want to
allow for interactions that don't live solely on sweet but beyond it and so if i'm a sweet developer
when should i be reaching for eka versus a multi-sig solution versus zk login as an example
when it comes to things like key management or just
trying to get the most out of my application? Yeah, I mean, I think, I mean, probably Nana
can also talk to that. But I think from my perspective, it's not about, you know, choosing
this or the other, right? It's about what is the use case and having IKA as a fundamental building block within the Sui, you know, broader toolbox
in order to do whatever it is you want to do, right?
So I think Nanak gave, I was rugging a bit before,
but Nanak gave example of, you know,
wallet as a service solutions,
like, you know, Privy or Web3 Auth or Para.
Like developers on Sui are using this in order to, for example,
create a better user experience for their users.
Now they can have a decentralized version of that that is completely Sui native and
is running as a protocol on Sui instead of trusting that centralized party.
Today, you have a lot of Bitcoin derivatives that are powered by bridges
and centralized parties on Sui. Now you can also have a much more trust-minimized version of that.
And maybe in the future, I know that Native and others are actively working on it,
completely bridgeless solutions where you can actually control native Bitcoin. So the Eka capability
is just expanding the toolbox that Sui developers have in order to just allow them, first of all,
more optionality, and also maybe doing things that they would have to do through a centralized
trusted intermediary, but just doing them in a completely decentralized way.
trusted intermediary, but just doing them in a completely decentralized way.
David, I was wondering, as part of EkoTestNet, are you keeping track of how many different
networks people have used Eko to send transactions across? So, of course, you mentioned Bitcoin as
well. I've seen docs on Ethereum. How deep does it go?
So, we are going to launch only with the ECBSA and EDDSA and Schnorr support are coming slightly later.
Not far away, by the way, but still not going to launch with it.
So right now it is limited to networks that support ECVSA.
Granted, it's most networks, right? So, you know, there's also
Cosmos and, you know, basically most of the networks, but something like Solana, for example,
who we do expect to have a lot of activity with IKA. I mean, Sui and Solana are, in terms of the
ecosystem and the community and the culture are kind of very similar or have a lot in common.
So we do envision and see a lot of people using that the moment we have EDDSA signature supported
as well. And yeah, but I think, you know, it's very early to kind of figure out how exactly
people will use it and what networks will it be useful the most.
I'm even hearing things from people who are building within specifically just within the
EVM or Ethereum ecosystem that this can actually solve a lot of problems of, you know, L2 to
L2 interoperability that they haven't figured out yet.
So I think it's very, it's very, you know, early to kind of think where it would go. If I had to guess, I would say probably Sui, Bitcoin, Ethereum. And then when we add EDDSA, also Solana will probably be kind of the main ecosystems.
Thank you for that, David.
Nanak, we'll go back to you.
I know that Holonym Human Tech has been around for a while.
If I recall correctly, y'all even were involved in helping facilitate the crypto payments that were made to Andrew Yang's presidential campaign.
I bring that up because obviously Ika wasn't live then. And so between when you all first started building and the various use cases you support,
in what ways has Ika unlocked different capabilities for you?
And, you know, presumably that's largely around the wallets as a protocol.
But if there's anything else, we'd love to hear more about that, but also a bit more
in depth about wallet as a protocol and how
that compares to something like a privy, for example.
Yeah, thanks for the question.
So, yeah, we started about three years ago as a zero knowledge identity protocol.
And our first customer for that was Lobby3DAO, Andrew Gings, DAO that did his on-chain fundraising.
So we did zero-knowledge identity proofs for them.
And then over the years, we've expanded more towards a suite of tools for digital human rights with cryptography.
So zero-knowledge identity, instead of becoming our main product, became part of that ecosystem. And our long-term focus was on the wallet, like it became
on the wallet aspect because we realized, okay, the UK identity is great. All these other
cryptographic tools are great. But if users can't have self-custodial wallets at scale,
But if users can't have self-custodial wallets at scale, that have like cryptographic keys that they can use for identity, for payments, for anything else, then none of this can exist.
None of this can scale.
Like our future as a company and really as an industry really hinges on this one thing.
So Eka has actually been a key enabler in that,
in us realizing, hey, we can actually do this
in a fully self-custodial way.
So the initial idea behind the wallet was,
okay, well, what if instead of just having one key share,
like one key, we split the user's key?
Because users have difficulty recovering their key
if they lose the device and putting a
key inside a web browser which you have to do as a wallet as a service is not really secure for
for large amounts of money by large amounts i really just mean like you know more than maybe
a few thousand dollars i start to get very worried if your private key is just in the web browser
in the front end, not even in an extension.
And extensions themselves are not super secure either.
So we thought, okay, well, what if we split the key in two?
What if the browser only has half the key,
so if it's compromised or the user loses it,
it's not the end of the world,
the other half is somewhere else.
But then the question becomes where is somewhere else?
So at first we were saying somewhere else is our server.
So without the user share,
our server can't sign on behalf of the users.
So we're like, okay, this is self-custodial,
but it does mean we can censor transactions.
So it's not really the cypherpunk future
we're all looking for, it's not really a perfect solution.
And I was like going through all these research papers
trying to figure out new architectures
to decentralize our server somehow,
but there was just no straightforward way to do it.
And then I saw Ica announced, this is back when they were, I believe they were still
known as Dewallet Labs at the time. And they had this white paper on how to do exactly what I had
been trying to do. It's like, oh my God, like this actually unlocks the future they want for wallets.
And so I messaged David, we met up in Denver, and then, you know, it became very clear instantly that
the ECO is really, like, it's funny because they're not even known for the wallet aspect
right now. But, like, in our view, like, this has been the biggest unlock. And I think it's,
like, another, you know, it's just, it's one of the many use cases that can be built on ECO.
And, okay, I talked for a while,
so just to answer the final part of your question quickly
on how this relates to WOD as a service.
So right now, WOD as a service stores the whole key
in really three places, actually.
They often say otherwise, they often say,
oh, only the users have the keys,
but this is actually provably false.
The key is stored one entirely, like the user's browser has the whole secret.
The DAP itself has the whole secret,
or at least the ability to sign transactions on behalf of the user.
And the wallet as a service provider also has that ability.
So there are three single points of failure, actually.
Either if the browser is compromised, the wallet as a service company is compromised,
or if the DAP is compromised and they can drain all the user's funds,
which means that you're now, you know, these wallet as a service,
because that security model, they only let you have one wallet per DAP
because they know if that DAP is compromised,
they can drain your assets.
So they don't want one DAP to be compromised
and drain assets of another DAP,
because that would be a complete mess,
especially if you just have one malicious DAP.
So there's no interoperability between the different wallets.
So Eka, in this paradigm of 2PC and PC,
lets us have these interoperable wallets of the service
that are actually secure.
So even if the DAP is compromised
or the user's browser device is compromised
or we are compromised, the user's funds are still safe.
Savon, if I could just add like one sentence
to what Anak said, I think one of the cool things that Holonym is, I mean, Human Tech is doing is there, like a year ago, if you said, I want to build, you know, a better, more decentralized version of Preview, I want to build it on Sui, you wouldn't be able to do that because you have all these things that have to be centralized.
We wouldn't be able to do it on any blockchain.
And now with Ica, Sui becomes the first and only blockchain where you can actually build a better, more decentralized, more secure version of Privy and Web3 Auth and Para,
which is one of the provable product market fit solutions that we have in crypto today,
you can build it on-chain.
And this is what human tech is doing now on SUI, which I just think is mind-blowing.
I mean, at least to me.
No, I never need to apologize for jumping in, David.
Thank you both for that. I think
the length of your note there allowed for some nuance to be shared about the potential
problems with things like wallet as a service and where Humantech and Eka are helping to
solve that. To that point, it's been brought up on different conversations, but Sam, would love if you could briefly speak to what is it about SWE, SWE Move, that actually allows for something like EGA to be built on top?
You know, I've heard it's around the speed, some of the consensus aspects, object model seems to be critical as well.
But if you could talk about that a bit before we bounce over to Robert from Native.
Yeah, I mean, so I think it's really fundamentally about the technical vision for SWE as a network, as this global coordination layer, you know, not just a trading layer, not just a place for NFTs, not a place for stuff that's gone before.
But we fundamentally view the black chains as something where you help people coordinate where there's not another logical way to do it. And we don't want to introduce a trusted entity.
And so we tried to show the playbook for this with things like Walrus,
where this is especially valuable when there are many, many entities on both sides.
Like you have a distributed network in its own right that has nodes that use SWE,
that have their own staking on SWE,
that are listening to SWE for messages that are sent via smart contracts
that then take action on SWE.
And then so Ika is taking the same Morris playbook,
but then like taking up a notch,
like I said at the beginning,
like Ika is this extremely technically ambitious team.
Like the 2PC MPC thing is extremely novel.
It lets you solve this problem
of how the people are always asking of like,
how do I sign transactions from a smart contract?
But then adds this extra nuance of like,
you don't have to delegate all control for that.
There can still be a user share.
And then the thing I also really like
is that the ECOS team's ambition
spreads into the folks that are building on them.
Like if you look at some of the early projects,
like we have human.tech in this space,
this is proof of human, you know,
without the orb or like, you know,
other ways of doing this,
like this is like more,
this was already a really important problem
and becomes more and more important
in the world of AI.
You can just write,
you can just do so many more things
when you know that only real humans
can interact with your app.
You can be more generous,
you have less to worry about.
With native, you know,
we talk a lot about RWAs
and that being the next big wave of crypto adoption.
We think Bitcoin is already the most important RWA.
And, you know, Native is working on leveraging Eka to have programmability for Bitcoin
to make Bitcoin more broadly accessible to build it into the on-chain financial ecosystem.
And then with Aon, who's not in the space, but as a team I'm also a huge fan of,
they're doing all sorts of really cool stuff from like multi-sig management
to solving the hard problem of you have agents that have money and can spend money, but you
want to set up programmatic guardrails using SWE, using MoveRod, what they're allowed to
do so that they can do good things for you, but you can limit the sort of bad things they
can do, which I also think is an important problem.
So I think like there's a lot of things I could say about SWE technology and how it
enables Eka, but I think really the biggest through line for both Eka and the builders building on
top of them is just technical ambition, you know, taking great tech and putting it
applying towards important problems.
That's the thing that I'm most excited to see.
Thank you for that, Sam.
Jumping over to you, Robert, there was a post on the native account that spoke about three
key features that allow for the best BTC
yield hub. That was a simple UX, no bridging or wrapping and trust minimized. So I wanted to ask
you why these three qualities matter and specifically in what ways Eka enable you all to achieve those qualities. I see there are two accounts for Robert, so I think he got
rugged on one and is trying to join from another potentially. And both are gone now.
One second, and I'm sure he will be back up. While we wait for Robert to jump back in,
part of what I wanted us to touch on in this conversation
is the developer experience building on top of it.
I'm supposed to be joining as well.
Boom.
Yes, go for it, Robert.
Yes, I lost a couple of the last minute.
And yes, we need to repeat if there wasn't a question.
Yes, I got you.
So basically in short, there was a post on the native account that flagged UX, no bridging
or wrapping, and trust minimization as three of the key qualities required to have a strong
VTC yield hub.
So I was just curious if you could elaborate on why those qualities matter
and specifically how Ica is enabling
that experience for native.
Yeah, I think spaces are rugging today.
I always say when the alpha is too serious, man.
You know.
Maybe the forces to be don't want this space to happen. I always say when the Alpha is too serious, man, you know.
Maybe. The forces to be don't want this space to happen.
We'll push forward. Maybe you can move to the next question and Robert will rejoin.
Yeah, yeah, 100%. They want a world where everything is custodial, you know.
They don't want your own and your private keys.
So next thing I wanted to touch on is just developer experience.
It's, yeah, I'm sorry.
Yeah, we'll get back to you, Robin, when you get unrugged.
But developer experience is hypercritical, right?
Because if people are going to build, if people are going to use it,
they need to use something that's dope.
And you need developers to build something that's dope.
So we can start with you, David, and then we can go to you, Sam.
But I just wanted to know what's what sort of thing should a
developer have top of mind when they're building eco are there any early lessons from y'all's
experience internally um Nanak from y'all building on it Robert when when we can hear your audio
again uh but just want to kind of get into the dev x of building on top of ecoka? I'll give just my two cents. I think it's actually, you know, better to hear, and I'm not going to Robert talk about
this, but I think one thing from the Eka perspective is we're seeing a lot of devs kind of rethinking
previous assumptions.
I think maybe every single conversation I start with a developer,
it has to start with dismantling all of these preconceptions that they have about how to do
things. And it takes a while and it takes a few aha moments and light bulbs in order to understand,
oh, okay, there's actually a different way to do that than what I'm used to,
because you have to start thinking differently
about how signatures work and how interoperability works.
And it's just, yeah, it's kind of a shift.
And I think from the developer experience perspective,
one of the things that we really liked about Stewie
in the object model is it really works well with how you think about
access control. And, you know, on SUI, in order to build with IKA, you use an object called
D-WalletCap, a capability to control a D-Wallet, or at least the network side of a D-Wallet.
And that makes things, you know, after you go through the aha moments on
the product side and the design and architecture, it actually makes things much, much simpler for
developers because they don't have to think about it in a kind of workaround way, but they can
actually do it just like they would build outside of blockchain, right? You have like a very straightforward way of thinking about access control and how things are managed.
And if another object holds the D wallet cap, then he can control that D wallet.
So now you can have an NFT controlling a D wallet or a smart contract controlling a D wallet
or one D wallet controlling another D wallet.
It just makes things much, much easier.
And it makes it more straightforward to design
even very complex use cases.
So that's, yeah, that's my take on the DevX.
I think that's a really important point that with Ika,
and I think also with Sui and Move,
and also with Human Wallets,'s like it's very much,
and I think really any project that builds on these, it takes time and it takes
unraveling of assumptions to really see the main value props. But once those are unraveled,
once those assumptions are unraveled,
it's like, oh my God, this is a new world.
Like, this is actually like really incredible.
And this is one place where I think
all of our ecosystems are genuinely very early
in the sense like people are just starting to see,
you know, people are starting to unravel those assumptions.
So like just to list a few of the assumptions, one is writing smart contracts in Solidity is normal for most
developers, and we actually weren't even planning, David had suggested, oh, write your smart
contact control on Sui in Moo instead of Solidity, and at first, I'm like, okay, well, you know, Sui, you know, we're all used to Solidity.
You're not going to learn a new language.
But it's like, look, it's actually going to be
much quicker to write good code in Move than in Solidity
because, like, you know, especially for security-sensitive
use cases, and the object model is, like,
really appropriate for this.
And given the complexity that you want to do,
it just makes a lot more sense to bring it in.
So you wanted to move and it was very worthwhile.
And I think we see other developers realizing this.
And another assumption that, you know, people have
is that bridges, they just have to have an aspect of trust,
that there's no good way to make a decentralized bridge.
But then, you know, you have Ica also
showing, hey, this is possible, and what are the
things that unlocks, you know, stuff like native assets on Sui with native.
And for us, the
self-custody aspect of wallets has been that where it's like people just assume, oh,
Privy is self-custodial, you know, all these wallets has been that where it's like people just assume oh privy is self custodial you know all these wallets of service they're like
reasonably safe because they've been used by all these projects and there's
no way the company could ever have access user funds but then like once you
actually dismantle the assumptions like okay well now I see why human wallets is
important so yeah I think with within all these projects dismantling
assumptions leads people to realize okay like, like this tech stack of SUI, IKA, native human wallets is actually
like something really new and really powerful. Robert, are you there? Are you rugged? I'm there.
I was rugged two times, but that's strange. strange okay so I guess the question was
about the the narrative we have right about the bridges bridge less wrapping
no wrapping correct that was that so you can touch that one and then pull it
back to the devrex okay yeah let's go let me cover those two. So to talk about this bridging issues, I think we need to set the context firstly here.
So as some of the speakers know, we need to understand Bitcoin, how the Bitcoin works.
Bitcoin works fundamentally different than the Sui or any other one that most of us are using um there is no really a good
application layer execution layer in sui we have move in the three we have evm and a bunch of
others actually change we have also evm that that allows us to allow us to program anything
on bitcoin you cannot do that it's very very. That's also why you don't really have a DeFi on Bitcoin.
There is no DeFi application on Bitcoin.
If someone sells you that,
then probably it's just marketing bullshit.
And here, I mean, EKA, us,
I mean, we are talking all bullshit.
So we need to go now here to the Bitcoin ethos.
What's the Bitcoin ethos?
Don't trust verify.
And now is the real issue.
How you can use Bitcoin in,
how you can program Bitcoin,
how you can use Bitcoin in DeFi.
Since you cannot create a DeFi in a Bitcoin today,
and those program or program bridges will suffer from the same issue, yes? How
you can program the verification system on Bitcoin, then how we can use that Bitcoin
preserving the Bitcoin ethos? So the answer is, we cannot do it with bridging. Today it's
not possible. In YWARE or another, we will sacrifice something from the Bitcoin ethos.
Just to give an example, the most anticipated way today how to interact with Bitcoin is through BitVM2.
BitVM2 is not a VM, doesn't execute any contract, any program,
it's a very inefficient and optimistic,
and not fully even permissionless verification mechanism.
And there are many, many issues around it. I wrote like a few posts about that.
So if there is any question, we can follow up on that.
But that's what's today.
It allows you to verify something,
but you know, there are trade-offs.
So what can work?
We would need to get back to the principles
and think, you know,
is there any cryptography primitive that we can use?
So since we cannot program efficiently
some verification method, for example,
to prove something that's happening,
you can see it and prove it back to,
to verify it back on Bitcoin.
Yes.
So this is, there's no goal for that.
The solution comes up with, you up with what Ica is doing.
So instead of programming the bridge,
we are programming the wallet.
We are programming the access to the wallet
and everything what here the human and Ica
was talking about, we are applying it for Bitcoin.
With the revolution of non-collusive NPC,
we can finally touch Bitcoin, preserving Bitcoin ethos.
Don't trust verify.
Right, so this is the key part that we need to be loud about
because finally we can enable Bitcoin
in the web-related way.
This is our mission, this is what we do.
And this is Brutless, yeah?
So there is no programmable bridge between those systems.
We program the walls, we program the access.
And with the all ecosystem of Ica,
this will be the user friendly.
With the all ecosystem of Suii we will enable bitcoin to those amazing
d5 products social applications enable sustainable yield uh so that's really amazing it's amazing
because you know the bitcoin has the widest adoption by far and winning that match getting
that measure on sui it's undeniable um it must be an undeniable goal so yeah no wrapping
no bridging this is important for bitcoin because bridging didn't work today on bitcoin um i mean
no wrapping it's more complex um it's really about you know providing the access to native bitcoin
bitcoin must stay in bitcoin this is the home for Bitcoin, not intermediary custody.
So this is how we interpret those no wrapping.
Love to hear it.
This is the way.
Okay.
Yes.
Sam, do you want thoughts related to the devX?
Yeah, I mean, I really liked the discussion of capabilities
because to me, like we've internalized
capabilities so much because we always build things this way and we've had them for years
but this is and and it's just to me so obviously the right way to represent authority like it's an
explicit representation of authority you just look at the program and you see where that is
it makes it easier i think as as nanak and david were mentioning like to build derivatives on top
of it to have shared ownership and if you're building on any other platform
and you've got access control list
and this just doesn't work,
which makes it a lot harder to build complex things.
And, you know, at the risk of repeating myself,
like the thing that is so exciting about Ika
and the folks built on top of Ika
is that these things are ambitious,
they are complex.
Like the technical, like, you know,
just listen to the last like 10, 15 minutes,
like the technical underpinnings of these things
requires so much sophistication, so much work to get right. But the story of what
they enable is just really, is really simple and really nice. And so, you know, we're almost out
of time and probably my last chance to speak. So I'll just conclude by saying like, look, you know,
ECA has this mission of enabling coordination and connections across chains. Like the first
three things they're enabling are proof of human.
That's a huge problem.
Bitcoin programmability, also a huge problem.
And then this agents and spending story,
the AI, that's a huge problem.
So, you know, if the next five ecobuilders
are tackling problems this ambitious,
like this is going to be an incredible thing.
So I'm really, really excited for the launch,
the ecotech itself and the ecobuilder ecosystem.
This is just like, we're really privileged
to be working with these folks.
Let me second actually on one topic here. and the ecosystem. This is just like, we're really privileged to be working with these folks.
Let me say context for the one topic here. DevX requires the foundation.
I mean, I can create the best DevX in a web tool.
I can create the best DevX on a mobile, right?
It can be a phantom on technology
that is underpinning it,
but I can have a great devX.
However, is this something that we want to build?
No, great devX based on a phantom technology.
And this is the game changer, yes?
That's why we, I mean, we need to go, again, step back,
why we are building Web3.
Web3 is not the best example of the best devx right however you know notably
web3 is missing a good devx so um what someone was saying is you know having some some some
primitives that will enable a good match of you know building the right tools um
that's ultra important right this is not again like possible on Bitcoin, on a chain that is actually far also difficult.
And we must really highlight as an ecosystem, as a community, that here is with with sui with eka with holonym uh the developers are getting the tools
uh that were not possible ever before forward free absolutely robert yeah i'm so excited for
that uh just one thing i think just to clarify for holonym we started now human tech we started off
uh showing what's possible with zk with proof of human. And when we really think about the ethos, Robert, that you're talking about,
the trust but verify ethos of Bitcoin, the biggest opportunity today is to
build that into the universal interface that users
will have to access this world, right? And that's the wallet.
Maybe it'll turn into a browser, maybe it'll turn into something else, but it's going to be the wallet.
So if we can really build out this 2PC-MPC infrastructure, as we're showing today in practice,
we can really build out this wallet as a protocol thesis, this bat wallet protocol thesis.
And that's really how we take Web3 out of just this niche and out to the wider world.
Absolutely.
Interestingly enough,
last week I was sharing that space.
Brother, man,
I appreciate it.
I'm sorry you got rugged at the front,
but we are going to have to wrap it up here.
So I hate to be rude and jump again,
but, you know,
I'm doing my best to keep these things on the ground. I want to add one more thing here, right?
Last week I was sharing that space. You got to drop your CTAs, brother I want to add one more thing here. Last week I was saying this.
You got to drop your CTAs, brother.
Then we got to move it on.
Well, yeah.
I want to have a clear message, yes, for a call to action
that, you know, mobile.
Like, you know, building mobile-oriented
tools like, you know, DevX.
That was the next thing, you know, but we already
have the foundations.
We are creating those foundations.
Mobile is, you know, the next goal, but we already have the foundations. We are creating those foundations. Mobile is the next goal, winning the mobile.
Okay.
So follow Robert, follow Native.
Stay up to date for that so that you are ready when Native launches.
Nanak, any CTAs you want to point people to?
Yeah, I would say follow Human Tech,
follow Human Wallet,
obviously if you're not following Eco or Ciri,
then definitely do that.
And we
will have some exciting updates soon
for the community.
you may want to turn on notifications too for a human tech account.
Absolutely.
Head over to wallet.human.tech and you might find some Easter eggs there if you look carefully enough.
And thank you so much for having us.
It's been a really awesome space.
We really love the Sui and Eiki communities.
And it's really awesome talking with you guys.
Thank you all for joining.
Before we throw it to David for the last word, I'm going to promote on Sam's behalf.
Follow Sam.
He's the GOAT.
He drops a lot of stuff on Twitter, more stuff on Twitter than he used to.
And also, if you haven't and you're building on SUI, Move Registry.
We need y'all support.
Put your packages in the move registry benefits everybody
please and thank you david to you good start final word sam i i thought it was sam like
it sounded so much like him um yeah i mean we're going to launch very very soon um we're also
ramping up uh you know we have uh quite a few amazing builders that
have been with us for a very long time uh but we're also ramping up uh talking to new builders
and a lot of people are kind of exploring what you can do with eka um we just onboarded a really
great sui native devrel that a lot of people know vessel Faisal. And so please reach out on Discord, on X, wherever,
and figure out what new amazing things you can do with Ika on Sui
that you couldn't do before.
I guarantee your mind will be blown.
There you have it.
Again, everybody, thank you so much for joining all the speakers all the
builders everybody in the audience also want to give a shout out to simone and nina and zara for
helping put this space together thank you all for helping keep things on the rails there and um
yeah y'all have a blessed day afternoon evening wherever you're at in the world
and we will talk to y'all have a blessed day, afternoon, evening, wherever you're at in the world. And we will talk to y'all soon.
Peace. Thank you.
