I just wake up. I don't say nothing. I'm gonna go go. I don't stay long. I've been
That's the case. Right? I've been down
For the summer boy, I'll keep you my boys in the summer boy. I keep making noise. I've been here annoying
The back on the job jump a lot is she
Big these up and beat them these bags you can't believe them
I never saw the country but the money comes to Sweden. I meet them then I leave them. I wake up play my demons
I never go my circle. I can't trust you with my
Only when I sit you've a pop now I get just now on the top now and no one it's time
Stick up top down. I get free. I don't go buzz and I don't play J. Watch me ski
Yeah, see you now. I could tell you watching me
I go books for Tommy. I'm more like his league rock star baby turn from the sun this I
Don't play nothing. I own this. I'll say nothing. I go switch
Gm gm absolutely love to be back with our weekly spaces with
ZTX and for today we have planned something that's a bit different to the latest spaces that we have been doing and
Karma, and I have been on a call and have been strategizing a bit
And we kind of realized that with so many of the gaming projects that we've been speaking about
Often it came to the point that many games many projects start as a single product first
They start with a game with a very very specific focus and many of them want to scale want to build up their own
Ecosystem eventually want to have their own
World of games etc etc etc, but they are just not yet at that point and
they also highlighted many founders did that it is so important to like focus on one thing first and
then start thinking about how you can scale from a product to an ecosystem and
for that reason we thought given the
Second anniversary of Azuki and given the plethora of announcements that we've seen around that
That there is no better guest and no better brand to have with us on stage than them and and Azuki to kind of
Talk about what it takes to grow a brand from a single product to an ecosystem that focuses on
More than one individual thing and also we have seen a nod and into gaming
We have seen Azuki announcing that they do want to have one of the focus points on gaming
On a hyper casual mobile game featuring the beans IP which I'm also curious to hear more about that thought process and more about where this
Basically line of thinking in the overall strategic lineup is coming from and
With that out of the way them welcome to the stage. It's been a while since we chatted last time. How have you been?
Hey, legendary is great to be up on the stage
Especially on the second anniversary of Azuki and with so many as we key in the audience and man
I am so impressed by how far you've come and an old you've grown
This last year, so it's amazing to be on on one of your stages finally. Thanks for having me
Thank you very much. Thank you
Parma welcome to the stage. Are you feeling a bit better? How are you doing?
Hello everybody, yeah, I'm I'm on the sick side, but I'm actually feeling really elated
I'm in New York right now just traveling and I woke up today and everything is completely bathed in snow
It looks like in a fairy tale. I'm looking out of the window right now, and it just yeah
It just looks like a fairy tale. I've never seen anything like this in New York
Gorgeous thing to wake up to and of course an even better panel to jump into so you know just yesterday
I was on the simplified spaces
It's with rules now and we discuss gaming and CTX is very frequently tuning in to share our
Experiences and we were discussing even on that game gaming spaces the power of IP and how important it is going forward
For the gaming, you know sub niche for the hyper casual gaming niche
so I'm really excited to jump into the conversation today and show just how
Intertwined IP in the gaming is and there is just no better IP to discuss this with in the Zuki
Couldn't agree more with that
Ashley welcome to the stage. How are you doing? How have you been? I am?
I've been super busy. I feel like this year
I feel like all of us had that you know weird holiday season where we don't really do much and I feel like now
I've made up for that a lot. So super excited to have this conversation. Actually, I've been a beans holder for a while and
So yeah, I just I just love the fact that you know, when three is going in a more
Gaming direction. I really want more RPGs to be honest. So that's that would make my day even better to be honest
The one thing though I would have to add is I love RPGs
But when do we find the time to play all of those like I've been thinking to give
Baldur's Gate 3 a try but then I realized I just don't have 110 hours to put into the main campaign now
So this is the only caveat to that
Sansa welcome to the stage when when I'm scrolling through the audience, I see so many elementals Azuki's beans and that's absolutely amazing
What are your thoughts on on the panel on the audience and how have you been?
Hey, uh, sorry voice crack. I didn't drink water like I should have before started talking. So I'll get so good. Good morning
Um, I first of all, I'm doing great doing great
I also do not have 110 hours to put into gaming like yourself
Um, unless my daughter wants to start playing with me in which case maybe but no I I absolutely have been loving
Everyone kind of on seeing Azuki for what we kind of always knew was always here
It's beautiful to see people just kind of
Bring bring in to their condition is a little bit as well
I you know, I don't know if you know legendary but I started a group chat called garden central for people who are new
all azuki elemental and beans
Because I found that there was a little bit of a lack of of a group chat for all holders
To kind of talk and be convened
So we've been busy not gonna lie and that's that's that's a testament to
How how well azuki is executed with the announcement over the last couple of weeks so really really excited for um
Derek to hear dem today, you know
When you know when he gets on his soapbox, he gets on a soapbox, but everyone better be taking notes
That's all i'm gonna say about that
Absolutely love to hear that and yeah with that out of the way let's let's get started maybe let's um start with you dem
Um start with diving into the plethora of announcements, but start on the personal note
How did you feel from you know?
In over this journey over the last two years from uh the azuki min to getting to the second anniversary how that
How did this feel on a personal level?
I got I got pretty emotional i'm not gonna lie. Um
As you may know I was at google before as a product manager and
I had achieved a certain level of success there and I was leading my own team
But but I was very unfulfilled by the work
That I was doing at google and the fact that I was launching product
Two millions of people about everything that I launched kind of turned into numbers and metrics and it just felt very dehumanizing. And so
When sagabon called me two plus years ago and said hey, like what do you know about discord?
I I didn't know anything about discord, but I was just like looking it up as we talk and I was like, yeah
Yeah discord, I know I know so much about discord put me in coach
And so I just I couldn't miss the next thing that he launched after after having seen what he did with the cox protocol
And I just you know, I just sort of fake it till I make it, you know
I just sort of manifested um this role and and it's been
It's been such a fulfilling journey even though it's been tough at times and we've lost the trust of people and and we've made mistakes
Overall when you look at the azuki community and how interconnected it is and and how much?
People believe in the brand and and want to succeed and how much they built themselves of that brand how much they put into it
Um, it puts me in a situation personally where I am with probably the best team that I ever work with
With a ton of resources and a ton of things to develop and build but also
Building something that it's quite personal. Like sometimes we think of azuki as like a really big brand in the web3 space
Concept of brand like in that in the real term of like how big a brand can be there
They're quite small like we we make product for for a very passionate
Uh group of people and so to to reach the two-year mark on such a strong note
With such a strong year ahead in terms of what we can release and the things that we can develop this year
It's it's a blessing and and to have been given
Multiple opportunities by our community to learn from our mistakes and come back again. It's exciting. So it felt nostalgic
Um, but it also felt really energizing to to reach this point and you know
And to see that what we were putting out was really resonating with people after two years
Uh that that that gave us all a lot of energy
Yeah, I can absolutely relate to that and two years is a very very long time in crypto
Like feels more like two decades in in a web2 life
Um, I mentioned it a couple of times that you have those three more than one focus point
You actually have those three focus points that you outlined in in the announcement, uh four days ago
Gaming, I think over the course of um our conversation. We'll definitely dive into all of those
But why don't you give us like, um a headline overview of what those
Individual aspects are anime physical gaming and what is happening in those verticals?
yeah, I think I think the tweet was necessary because
We had started azuki as a metaverse anime brand and and we want to evolve into something much greater
We've always had a dream of being a decentralized anime ecosystem a decentralized anime brand
It was very important to put it
into such simple terms as three branches or three pillars of the ip strategy because
We've been doing really exciting things, but we saw from our community
And from the wider space that they were not really
Connecting the dots as much as as we thought they were so
This is not a change of our strategy. This is not like a like a pivot
It's just a way to encapsulate it in as simple
As as possible terms that we can then repeat in terms of narrative and in terms of the space understanding us. So
This is just an iteration of what azuki has always been we've always talked about decentralized brand building
We've always talked about co-creation. We've always had an anime aesthetic
We've always had great physical products that we made with a lot of love and we've always had gaming people within our company
We always had a gaming dna when you look at hoshi boy previous projects or when you look at steam boy
Who was the lead character on overwatch? There was always a game like component in what we did and so
It was really important from a storytelling perspective because this space is so narrative driven that we now
Could go into 2024 and tell people very clearly
We're becoming a decentralized anime ecosystem and the way in which we're going to grow that ip
And reward our community is through anime is through physical goods and it's through gaming and it's that simplicity
I think that we're going to carry into this year in terms of the energy that we bring and the storytelling that we do
So it was important to put it together, but it it's but it's not a pivot, you know, like we've been doing this
Like we're not new to this, you know, we've been we've been doing this
But it's important to tell that story, you know in a clear and concise way because some of the points were not being connected
Is it fair to say that the
Connective tissue the glue between those three verticals is the ip is the brand that azuki is building
Absolutely, and I think it's more important than just the connective tissue
It is the whole thesis for the brand
Because as we enter a world in which you can create
So cheaply with ai technology as we enter a world in which we're so
Like heavily interconnected online and as we enter a world in which you can have
Part ownership in the characters and in the ip of any single brand
It will become more and more important how strong the ip is
On top of which the ecosystem is built than the actual ecosystem building
I mean you can look at it from the gaming perspective
Like the barriers to create a game were so high before you needed so much money. You need such a strong team
The thesis is that in five to six year time
It's going to take actually very little to make a game and it's all about who are the characters. What is the world?
What is the story? That's what's going to draw people in same thing with animation
It used to take so much money to make animation
And now that that that that cost that barrier to entry is going to decrease over the next 10 or 15 years
And it's all about it's all going to be all about who are the characters?
Who are the what is the world and what is my connection to it? And most importantly the fact that we can
Give people ownership of characters. We can give people ownership of different parts of the ip through the method of nfts
That is going to be a differentiating factor between
Companies that are built centralized and they build their ip in a centralized way and they're constantly chasing
Down and shutting down any co-creation and companies that embrace
Co-creation that are like co-creation first that invite co-creation and that are able to accelerate past those centralized brands because
At their core they're already sharing a flywheel of rewards for people that co-create with them. So
It's not just connective tissue like ip like that is the thesis like that is the future
Of azuki as a brand and we think that that is the future of brands
The future of brand is really really strong ip that is decentralized first and open to co-creation
You mentioned a couple very very interesting things in there. Um, you said on the one hand, you know anime is
It is a very competitive segment. The entry barriers are getting lower ai
A tool that will allow many many more people to explore building projects trying to build their own ip etc
In in the world that shapes out like this and in a sector as competitive as the anime market
Which I feel like that many people are still underestimating and you know, we have a very very
Uh strong audience and just taking that that minute before I get to the question to compare those two markets real quick
If you look at the gaming industry as a whole
The market size for projected to be for 2024 is
The anime market has been at 25 ish billion last year
So that's already a tenth of the gaming market
And if you look at the growth rate at the kegger the compounded annual growth rates actually
The anime market is growing a bit faster than gaming
And if you look at those numbers in in 2030 where they're projected to be
um, the anime market will be
At 63 billion and gaming will have grown to 426 billion us dollars
So it is a very very competitive sector. This sector is growing so fast even faster
although it's not by a large margin, but even faster than gaming
And you have a isa technology coming in where many people will have an easier
Way to try to build their own ap. So what does it really take in a competitive landscape like that to build?
Um a brand to build an intellectual property. That's truly outstanding and unique
Oh, did he cut out I I stopped here in legendary can you guys hear
Okay, you guys hear me. Did I lose everyone?
No, we can hear you. We can hear you, right? I can hear yeah
Uh, where did you lose me then on my long ass monologue?
I think I think you're talking about like gaming and anime and the growth rates
I'll sum it up real quick. Um, so I said gaming sector very competitive anime very competitive anime is growing even faster than gaming
and in a competitive landscape where
Anime draws a lot of attention where AI makes it easier for people to try to build their own brand their own ip
What does it take for a brand like azuki to build an ip to build a brand that truly stands out?
The number one thing is a set of characters and a story
That really truly draws you in and and that is down to us as a team to create
Um, I think one misconception when we say decentralized brand building
It sounds like everything's going to be pushed out to the community
Uh, and no work will come from us and I think that is the wrong way to think about it
I think uh the key to success here is that we create
characters and we create a narrative and we create a world that is
Incredibly compelling and that draws eyelids both from like web 2 and web 3 people and so with our short front anime series
The goal is that we can prove that the azuki ip is not just super powered by the fact that it is nft enabled
But also by the fact that we can create a really high quality
piece of content of anime with really veterans from the industry
And and with very well respected people and that that story can capture your regular anime fans attention
So it needs to be a really strong story and it needs to be really strong characters
There needs to be a commitment across the board to higher than average quality
And I think that's an advantage that azuki has because the way that we're built and the way that we're resource
We don't have any like vc money
We don't have any of those like restricting factors for larger companies where they have to cut on costs and they have to cut
On production and quality because they have these like sort of targets of year over year
We're not tied down by those things. We can come in really hard with really high quality products
And then I think the secret sauce and the reason why we will eventually
Um, you know perform much better than centralized ip is is that we're open to co-creation
So if we do a great job of creating a really compelling universe with really compelling characters that are very very much like
Attracting the attention of web 2 people and web 3 people
And we continue to deliver very high quality projects and really high quality products and experiences
Since we're open to co-creation
We will then attract and we will continue to encourage creator within our community
That are rewarded by a flywheel to to do their creation
And then we will have not just sheer labs pushing for the azuki ip
But all of these different nodes in the network also pushing for it. That's stage three
But that's the differentiator right because like everybody can everybody that's talented can create great characters
Everybody that has a lot of money can create very high quality products with no compromise for cost
But the final stage, you know, like the final leg of the race where you really head to head with the final competitors
That's where if we've built the right flywheel to encourage co-creation from our community then all of a sudden we've got
100 thousands of people pushing for us while they're running out of steam and there's just this one centralized company
That's building the ip all together. So it will be a multi-year process to like sort of build all of this out
But I think in the end stage when they're sort of running out of jews
They're sort of running out of steam and fumes
We will have a flywheel to reward our creators and we will have all of these innovative ideas
That centralize ip's often miss out on like one one story that I go back to a lot is the story of twilight
And 50 shades of gray. I don't know if you guys have read 50 shades of gray
I'm pretty sure ashley is aware of 50 shades of gray. I don't know why I think sounds has heard it as well
Maybe the audiobook. I i've you know, you're aware
You're familiar with the material
50 shades of gray started as fan fiction for twilight
So so it started as a story of you know edward and and and then like, you know doing the dirty
But the twilight people didn't want that they didn't want that creator in their community
So they're like now you can't build within our ecosystem
You can't build and co-create with us get out of here. So the author she was a very smart woman
She was like, all right. I'll just create my own ip
She's sold more books than twilight
She'd sold more movies than twilight because frankly the idea is brilliant and and the twilight people as an ip
They've lost out on all of that value because they were not built for co-creation. So it's not that like
Twilight just sat around and waited for their community to make dope stuff
But when the community of twilight make dope stuff
They were not built to accept that and incorporate it into their brand
And they missed out on like a 2x 3x growth on their brand because they were not really willing to co-create
So I think at the end of the race
If we execute all of the things that are in the playbook at the end of the race
The last bit of advantage would be that co-creation piece
I love the focus on co-creation and I also like how this is a pattern that because you mentioned the twilight story
Um that is also a pattern that we see in gaming very very often, right so many popular games or franchises
We're actually mods of other games dota being based on on on the warcraft ip
Is one of the first examples that always comes to my mind
Um, and I also liked how you explained that building a decentralized brand doesn't mean
just pushing the work on the community and
Obviously you've been doing a lot of work to to grow the azuki ip
also outside of x outside of our little
Bubble in here and I think it was in
That you unveiled the partnership with ipx formerly line
and line friends being that that global character brand that
originated from the line messaging app and
Has obviously millions of users in in in the states, but even more users in asia
And has built their own ip has built their own merchandise and has been doing
A lot to well grow that and nurture that ip we've seen
Following an approach where they absolutely dominate gifi dominate instagram half the physical toy lines
Um a playbook where they now partner up or with
partnerships acquisitions
collaborations in whatever form they happen
are very very important to
Grow a brand from like a singular position to something that can carry a whole ecosystem that exists
Um outside of a bubble and I also think um, I definitely want to hear more about that
And I know it's a year old news, but I find it very relevant in the context
Of talking about ip about that ipx partnership how?
How that fits into your thinking of co-creation and also here?
Um for the sake of basically having multiple views on that from ukarma after that
on the collaboration with stickily
Yeah, I think that's gonna be a great question for when
Wizzwang our head of growth gets up on santa spaces. So let me let me just show a espresso shot later today. You're gonna have a
List there and she's going to be talking about ipx
And then tomorrow we're going to be doing a discord stages at 6 p.m
Where we're going to have feb and we're going to have a steam boy talking about our partnership with densu
I think what i'll say in a more general term is whenever you decide on an element for your ip strategy
It needs to be like a net ad to what you're trying to build
And so when you decide to bring in a partner, you need to bring in a partner that has
Skills or capabilities or assets that you do not have so for example
One thing that line france has figured out is an in-store experience that feels really premium and luxury and cute
But at the same time is in like prime location
So the bean the beans brand was all over gangnam, which is the you know
The best sort of shopping neighborhood in order in order of soul. It is like where all the luxury stores are
They have a location. They're like a physical retail location. That is beautiful. It's a really
Experiential type of store and so to be able to put our products and our ip within that
Context really elevates it
So when you look at somebody like line friends and ipx the resources that they have are of course production resources
But more importantly physical locations like they were putting
24-7 a beans video on time square all throughout this weekend
So as people were like walking around they were seeing beans in time square
Like that is something that they bring to the partnership for free
Same thing with densu like densu is an amazing production agency
But they're also a really really large advertiser with a lot of like really strong brand connections
So not only is densu helping us connect to legendary directors like goro tani gucci in terms of the anime production
Because they have such a wide range of skill sets. They're also suggesting us
partners and sponsorship partners for the garden tour events like when you can find a partner or you can find a strategy
That benefits you multiple dimensions
Then you're onto something really exciting like why is pudgy so smart on one hand
The jiffy strategy is brilliant because it gets a lot of people
Looking at their gifs and it gets a lot of people like being aware of like what the pudgies look like
But at the same time they're able to use that production to create custom gifs for their community
Which the community really enjoys they feel like really recognized by it
So boom they found an element of their ip structure that does multiple things for them
And that's so much better than getting you a partner that just does like the one thing, you know
And I think that's why you have some partnerships that are more of like a one and done like oh, this was cool
This was exciting like museum of mahomes, you know, we were able to do something with patrick mahomes
But you know there weren't there weren't like a whole set of capabilities that help each other out
But when you look at a more long-term partner or a long-term strategy
It needs to give you multiple things at once for it to be worth all the time and investment
Yeah, I also liked how you said that such a long-term partnership at the end of day needs to be a net
Ed for your brand and I have one more follow-up question before i'm going to throw it to you karma on that
partner with a company or with a project that is to be
A more long-term a more sustainable partnership and liking the case with
ipx is actually something that touches
The heart of your brand touches the ip and works like in very very crucial parts
Of your brand. How do you make sure that?
That partner actually understands the dna of your company and the dna of the brand that you're building
Is this something that only time can tell is this something where you have to?
Purely rely on gut feeling or are there a couple of criteria that you can apply to them?
Did I cut out again or did uh them lose me karma, can you hear me?
I can hear you perfectly fine them
Are you still with us or were we just confused as to which one of us should be answering the question?
I actually thought that was a question for you karma
No, what that that was a question for you them though
All right. Can you repeat it then because I was like I was like, all right. I'm off the spotlight now
It's karma's time taking taking a moment to hydrate. Uh, yeah, the question was when you when you have a partnership
Like the one with ipx that is sustainable that is long term and that touches
Um the heart of your brand that touches your ip
How do you make sure that that partner really understands the dna?
Of your brand of your company of your ip is it something that only time can tell is it something where you go by gut feeling?
What a couple of criteria that you get like it's it's time and especially when it's an international
um partnership it's travel time so
wiswang and the team and sagabon and elaine had to travel to korea multiple times to
Visit their stores and to sit down with them and show them
Our twitter feed and show them our community members and their creations and they had to show us their products and their production
And we had to talk about our history and we had to go back into like
Why certain decisions were made with our ip and they had to tell us certain stories and and sort of the lore of the brand
intra company intra community things that are very um, sort of
You know central to to us and so that's why the ipx partnership wasn't
Um as quick as like the web3mind would expect, you know
The web3mind would be like, okay, the partnerships announced and the products are in store like two months later
We really took the time to make sure we understood brown and we understood the cast of characters and what they meant
And they trusted us to treat those characters well within our ecosystem and they understood beans
They knew who these characters were and what they were doing in the world and they understood our community
And why our community was so engaged with beans and that takes time. It takes travel. It takes trust
Um, you know and it's and it's it has to be done
Right, um, and so I think it's really good that we took our time to do this thing, right?
And I think now there's a very strong understanding between both ipx and ourselves about what our ip's are and what our capabilities are and
What we can trust each other on and we can bring to the table
And so that's unfortunate because web3 doesn't always necessarily give you the time to do that
There's a ton of pressure to rush things
There's a ton of pressure to to bring things out the door and I understand also from the community that you know
It can be frustrating to see things not move at the speed
Um that other projects might move or that other brands might move, but I think it's crucial
I think it's crucial and we're lucky to have a core community that's patient enough and experienced enough
And that has run their own businesses and that hasn't been in these negotiations before that they understand it
Um because otherwise it would be very very difficult to do what we do
But you know when you can finally show them the end result and they look at it and they're like this feels right
Um, I think that's actually a really good point of like
Earning the trust of the community. So we're lucky to have a community that gives us time to do things, right?
And we don't take that for granted
And so we take we take all that time that they give us to make the best product possible and make sure that it feels
That makes so much sense and I like how you highlighted that
The value of travel time in you know a space that is so digital as ours
It's probably something that we don't necessarily think about at the first glance
um karma, I would love to loop you into this conversation and
hear from from your side a what is going on with stickily and ztx and what is
The ip play the thinking behind that
Yeah, and I will need to zoom out in order for you know
Like my plug to make sense within the realm of the ip discussion that we've been in
Um and something I really really value about everything you've just outlined them like you really drill in on the long-term vision
And the individual steps and considerations needed to do this
Um, and I think that's that's you know, the fundamental of it
So at ztx we are building something slightly different than azuki whereas azuki is building
You know ip first and product seconds, which
In my opinion is the best way for nft projects to grow and you know expand
Ztx is building a platform first and ip second
The consideration that you know, we do have the web2 business. We have the peto behind us with 400 million users plus
So there is the backing that is necessary for us to pivot build a platform and start onboarding an audience second
You know, whereas whereas for the majority of nft projects, it's the inverse. That's that's the case
And one thing I wanted to echo that you also said is the timeline of things
um in web3, we genuinely are living on
Or rather when we approach brands for you know future fashion collaborations and digital fashion
Drops that we will be doing at ztx and we have been doing at zepetto
the normal work length or the work timeline with with a web2 brand
Is usually counted in like, you know, six months plus like you started like six months of
Planning and then you go from there
The timeline is absolutely insane like you feel like if you send someone a message and they haven't responded in 24 hours
They will just never respond to you. Like this has died a very premature death
Um, i'm sure you you will all relate
Sometimes when it's like, you know pre whitelist stage someone doesn't have to respond in an hour and you immediately have a feeling like oh
Um, okay. This is just like a funny funny digression
But in terms of building ip and building a very very sound platform
Another thing that really resonated with me that you said was
How gracious and how important it is to have the initial community that will allow you that necessary time and will allow you the ideation
That is necessary for you to deliver the best product to them. I feel like very very often the
I would say the missteps we've seen in the space the missteps we have seen
Um, I mean misstep is like, you know a very valued way to to call it
But some of the things which haven't gone as well as we have hoped for in the space
I feel we're largely due to the immense pressure from communities on those teams
And of course to a large degree, this is justified. We all want the projects to do well
We all want them to really advance and you know outperform all the other ones
Is that zero sum thinking?
But so very often the projects which will build robust ecosystems and robust ip's
Need to really measure their steps
And rather execute at the highest level of quality at a slower pace
Than you know, keep iterating in a very very quick succession on things which may or may not be a hit
Yeah, these were these were some very very loose thoughts on
You know everything you've just said and how it resonates in context of building a platform rather than an ip
And I think these are universal lessons that many many projects could take to heart
Yeah, I love love that reflection and
one topic I really also wanted to dive a bit deeper into is um,
The collector status 1.0 because I think it perfectly ties into our ip conversation
Um has one of the challenges in my opinion at least for
particular brands in web3 pfp projects in web3 is
That you on the one hand have the overall collection on the other hand you want to drive
exposure to individual elementals individual azuki's individual beans
And want to actually make people be excited about specific traits specific trade
And for me one of my hypothesis when I changed my pfp to my elemental sloth
Was exactly that there is
Not um, like I wanted to be the number one sloth in the web3 space and
The sloth wasn't occupied as a brand by a content creator back then
And I found this guy right with him and just went on that brand building journey
And I think i'm not the only one who has
Seen something very specific in their azuki in their bean in the elemental and then went with it
Um, and you have recently
Introduced the collector status with the tiers with uh new emblems
Can you maybe before we get into into the discussion into some of the more detailed questions that I have on that?
Thinking behind the collector status how that came to be and how it fits into the existing
Collector profile into the existing emblems
Absolutely collector status is very integral to ip building
But at the same time it's a very targeted product
And it's not like the end all be all for the azuki ecosystem neither from like an ip growth
Perspective or from like a rewards to collector's perspective
It is a very targeted and it's the version 1.0
Of what will eventually become the whole collector status experience
but but the reason why it's so important to ip building is that there was already this behavior of
Buying an azuki or an elemental or a beans that you love
And then shopping around the collection and falling in love with different trades and falling in love with different types
That is not just a collector behavior. It is also an ip building behavior
The more time that our fans and our community spends
Looking at all the different elementals and learning about the different domains
And looking at the different azuki and looking at the different weapons and trades
The more time that they spend there
That's time that they're spending in the universe
That is ip building like that creates a connection between them
And the characters and the world because these characters are built very much within the universe and so
A numerical system that enshrined the value that we give to the more rare azuki
To the super rare azuki to the spirits to the kigurumi to the gold creating a system that like
Rewarded people from appreciating that was very very important because as an ip company that wants to build characters
We don't want nft's to just become tokens. We've always said that the art is a wrapper for the token
But if we really hyper financialize nft's
Azuki as a brand loses a huge advantage that it has over other collections
Which is the depth of the collection and how enjoyable it is to find that one azuki that really represents you as a brand
Now the goal of collector status is really to reward a type of behavior. That's not rewarded anywhere else
There's all these other systems that will reward you for providing liquidity for giving out loans for taking out loans
For bidding for buying for selling for dumping all of that shorter term behavior is really well enshrined within other systems like blur
But the long-term collecting trading
Building curating a collection really appreciating the rarity like that is not really appreciated anywhere in the current systems
So it was very important to assign these numerical values that are not
They're not based on what we think about the rarity of the collection
They're based on the existing marketing market behavior like markets are really powerful
And so we looked at what was trading above floor
We looked at what trades already had a community built around them
We looked at what trades people were being excited about and we're like
Let's really try to find a set of numbers that allow the short-term people and the long-term people
To agree on the potential value of of an nft because right now the only
Measure of value for nfts is being enshrined by other systems
And so everything's turning very short-term very buy it sell it buy it sell it flip it flip it
System what we're starting to see is that a short-term trader and a long-term collector with long-term conviction
They can now have a more clear discussion about what the true value of one of these nfts are because there's now
a point system with it obviously
It's such a complex system and there's so many factors at play
That we're going to need to iterate on this like time held is not being taken into consideration right now
This long-term holding behavior community contributions
Which are huge like all of those things that people do outside of just collecting are massive
And so I think that's why it's also a very targeted
System it is very is being very targeted at the collector at like the long-term collector and holder
And it is not the end all be all but we can only release one product at a time
I think if we had released, you know, six or seven products at a time
It really would have cost like a lot of confusion and so we have to keep it simple
We're very happy with the reaction of the market and with the reaction of both long-term and short-term collectors of it
I'm also getting a lot of feedback about you know
This thing we could have done better and that thing we could better which is healthy
Like that's exactly at the stage at which we are in terms of the development of the product
Like we need to hear from the community what could have done best
but I think what's very important for me to say out loud is that
Long-term collecting and spending a lot of time
Looking at the collection to try to optimize the points and try to maximize the points that you get out of the collection
That is actually a good behavior for IP building
You know, like that's the old joke of like I came into this collection just to like flip it and I became a community member like
We have created a system now where even if you're coming in as a flipper
And as a short-term holder
You're gonna have to read through all of our emblems and or of like our fluffly lore stuff and blah blah blah blah
And you might just fall in love with that one animal
And you might just fall in love with that one red og ozuki and you might just fall in love with that one kigurumi
And so maybe we can turn more long-term short-term flippers into longer term, but more importantly we can reward
Long-term collectors and those that appreciate rarity of the collection. We can reward them
We can show them with points and we can show them with with badges and with these
Progression system we can show them just how much we appreciate them. So it was a very important release and god
I was so nervous launching it because there are so many factors at play
So even though it wasn't perfect at launch it did get a good reception
And now we get some time to really look at the feedback and keep improving it
I love how you said that you used the the market data to also establish a bit of the the points ranking
and I also liked the decision that you made on purpose to not have that protocol support to not
Have lending liquidity farming other points farming on on external platforms as part of that
But really focus on that long-term holding behavior
that you want to incentivize
And when when you guys posted the update on the collector status
That the longest discussion the most difficult discussion was
Transparency versus collectability
Do you want to make sure that all the points are known and be as transparent as possible?
So that everyone can make an informed decision
Versus do you want to keep the magic of not completely revealing the formula and the secret sauce?
Behind all of that and keep a bit of the collecting magic and in the end you made the decision
To go towards transparency and show how
The the specific point values work
What was the deciding factor that swayed the decision pro transparency in the end?
Yeah, we're lucky to have
You know some really smart people working on this product that are not me because i'm not very smart
Um, so location tba and serif from our team serif is our new
VP a product and location tba is one of the co-founders
They were most involved in this decision making
And I was pretty happy with how they laid out like the the advantages and the and the disadvantages
And I think at the end of the day the compromise towards more transparency
We have a more holistic understanding of their nst space now and you can't ignore the short-term traders
You can't ignore those people that are hustling on the intraday trades and on the swing trades
And that are flipping and that are providing liquidity. And so if we had
Invested in the storytelling and in the lore aspect of it
We would have missed a chance to create a common language between
Some market participants and other market participants and the goal the whole goal of collector status was to try to get
The market to appreciate what our long-term collectors already knew which is that the azuki collection is very deep
It has a lot of really different trades that are very cool to collect and to discover and so
If we had really obfuscated the point value to a point where a trader couldn't really understand it
We would have missed a chance to create a bridge between
Our superfans that love a red azuki or a blue azuki or a gold kigurumi and the people that are just here for a quick
And so we're pretty happy with the balance that we struck
But it's something we have to say vigilant because once you gamify the collecting experience
It could become overly gamified
And so, you know, I think world, you know, serif is a big nerd and location is a big nerd
We all talk about different video game systems. They were talking about location tva always talks about civilization
personally, i'm a dungeons and dragons nerd and in dungeons and dragons like
Of course, there's rules and there's numbers and there's math and you can min max your characters to hell
But if you really want to have a great game at the table
You got to keep the storytelling alive and and you cannot let
One single player just be doing like very complex math all the time and boring the hell out of all the other players
And so we need to stay vigilant that this gamification of the collecting experience
serves as a language between short-term traders and long-term collectors, but it doesn't become
this like insane game of point maximization that just completely destroys our culture and
That's that's just going to happen through iteration and we're happy to have a community
That's very vocal when they don't see something that they when they see something that they don't like
And so we'll just keep listening to them and try to find a happy balance
But you know given how high
Risk the launch was and all the factors
I'm very happy with the decision that serif and location made here towards more transparency
Because we are seeing short-term traders be able to value
A mid-rare now based on the point system that we establish even though they might
Not care so much about the fact that it's a kigurumi and it's a cat and it's so cute and it has a sword
But they're like, oh, you know, I can see that it's worth this many points
So therefore i'll buy it and i'll hold it and i'll wait for somebody who appreciates the art because I inherently think that
Increases its value above the floor and and I think we're we're happy with that at this point
Well, we'll keep on pushing for a better and more advanced system
But it is quite an achievement and i'm very happy that serif and location made that decision
I think that d and d analogy is
It's just fantastic and my inner nerd is cheering at it because it makes so much sense, right?
You enjoy the storytelling you enjoy the narrative and yes, there there is fun in moon maxing
But that can't be everything for a brand that is building
And an ip ecosystem karma when we spoke about the collective status
I know you had many many many thoughts on that. So would absolutely love to hear from you
Yeah, this is a brilliant topic
And you know for those who are just tuning into the spaces like, you know
What could potentially a metaverse like ctx and and an ft slash brand, you know
IP project like azuki have in common and the fact is that you can just learn so much from each other and I remember
You know months ago even back when we were still designing the ui the look of the ztx platform the user experience
i'm going to be honest them like the
Azuki collector profiles were for me
One of the main example I was bringing up to my team
In our you know meetings on on the user user journey within ztx
On how I would love to involve and then tangle the user
And now bear with me as I expand on this on this topic because it generally is something that I believe everybody should be looking into
Now for those of you who have never seen an azuki collector profile, you know, maybe you're from the ztx community
It's almost like your online calling card
Um, you can feature all the nfts you own within the azuki ecosystem
Um, it's sort of like really like blows up your nft like it extends the background onto your entire screen
So it just looks like a gorgeous deliberate page rather than something you're viewing an open c
And you look much more at someone's identity
Than just their inventory of nfts. It's it's a very very emotional experience even looking like, you know, someone's someone else's
You then also see their journey within the ecosystem
You see different emblems which signify, you know different trades that they've collected
You also see different badges which can be awarded for participation in community sprints community missions now apologies them
Like I should i'm like woman's planning azuki profiles to azuki community
But this is this is for the benefit of the ztx community here
It's fascinating to see it from your perspective actually so i'm learning a ton keep keep keep woman's planning, please
So, um, yeah, so when I was looking into it originally it generally seemed to me like the first
Participants identity within an ecosystem in a shareable way because you also get your own url
Collector slash whoever you are i'm right now looking at dingleings, uh, you know page and just simping over his nfts
So it it gives you not only a link that you can share with your fellow community members
It gives it gives your nfts. It gives your collection a home which fills
You know a part of the ecosystem again, rather than just the
clinical cold and emotionless front page or like your collector page of an open sea
So this was an incredible move and I haven't seen it done
Remotely as well as azuki did anywhere in any capacity and now of course
You've also added this, you know point system where people can you know acquire ranks different traits like so like boost you in different ways
It's an entire gamified presence
Now, okay, like i've simped enough now
What's my point here now for the majority of not just nft projects meta versus games
What you care about as a project what you care about as a team
Is retention how long do you get to keep the customer keep your community member within your ecosystem?
And this was a brilliant move to keep them within that ecosystem even more and help them identify with that ecosystem
In a very very tangible way and this is something the majority of games gaming projects also have to look at
You know no matter what you're into, you know, you look at parallel you look at I don't know star atlas
All those different games want to achieve the same thing
They want you to be really involved within the within the ecosystem
They want you to be involved in the story and they want the highest possible user retention
They want to retain you on their websites and similarly down the line for ztx
Your ztx avatar is going to be your identity within that metaverse and we want you to identify with that person with that
And we want to create a page create a home for all your assets for all your interactions
For the digital fashion that you are accumulating for different
aspects and different nfts that you craft in game and
To direct finish this entire tangent
The azuki collector profile is always going to be for me exhibit a of how we want to do it
And what we want to strive towards over a long period of time
Because of course for a game it's going to be significantly more complex than in azuki's case, which is you know static static nfts
But just an incredible an incredible example of how one project can learn from another even if they are in completely different verticals
At the end of the day standing at the same well of user engagement
From this initial very small pool of web-free user base. We are now expanding towards. Yeah ip
Anime we are like hyper contextualizing and in terms of games, you know
We really need to learn from that in order to also understand how to retain that user base and make them very very passionate
You know advocacy, um, sorry advocates for us
Just like the azuki communities. Okay, this was a very very long tangent
But I think you see them how it like it has featured very heavily in all my discussions with the team
Um, so it was great to see also from your perfect perspective how these collector profiles have grown
And it also pivots me towards the topic. I think that we wanted to touch upon legendary
It's not that far removed
from like, you know the realm of possibilities that
Eventually, the majority of large projects will also have their own marketplace
Now I know this meta comes and goes and you know, opens he still retains, you know, strong hold over everything
We all love liquidity. We all love just like a one-stop shop, but I think as these um, you know, ip
Metaverse gaming projects advance and become bigger and bigger the nfts will become more and more complex
It's going to significantly become much more difficult for the for the
Marketplaces to display all those, you know, um all those important metrics
For example, if you're buying a gaming nft, it's very difficult to see an open sea
What the utility is how that nft will look like in game and my personal little
Is that we will see more and more projects 2024 2025 advance and have integrated in game
In experience marketplaces and purchase opportunities in order to come away from this clinical
Collective pfp marketplace experience, but this is just something I wanted to throw out there and would really love to hear what you think about that then
on the wider point of how you build a great product and and you know
You'd looking at our our product. I I really appreciate that and I think it's it looks really good for ctx in the future
Because you can only build great product by by looking at and being inspired by other great product. Um, I'd love to share
one of our biggest inspirations for the collector profile which was actually
Rahito son who is one of our advisors for a long time and sort of a legend in old sorts of collecting circles
Um and a conversation that he had with sagabon on on a tour of his house
He is a massive Ferrari collector collector and he keeps all of his
Ferrari collectibles in this glass
collectible space in in the garage and he sort of
He showed that to sagabon and said whatever you make
Whether it's something big or something small you need to imagine
That the collectors within within your community that people that follow your brand
They're going to want to show it at the center of their home
And and whenever they bring somebody over to their home
It's going to be a special moment for them to show that to everyone. And so I think that was one of the physical
Spaces or inspirations that we took away from this idea that whether it's an nft or whether it's a physical product or whatever it is
It needs to fill a place within within this glass
um exhibition space that that are that are you know communities going to use to to show to their friends and so
It was one of the main inspirations for the for the collector profile. I think that
On the topic of retention
We're maybe in a different position
Interestingly, so like i've always fought to increase
Retention and reduce churn in the products that I was building and it was all about like how we can increase it and I think with azuki
We have a sort of backwards problem where we have already such an engaged and loyal community
And we're now just trying to build products and experiences that justify their commitment
And their long-term stay in power these people that have been with us for two years
Like it is more about just making them feel rewarded for all the things that they've already done
You know, I think collector status is less of like a forward looking
effort to increase retention and more of like a backwards thing of like hey
We saw you collecting all of these rares and these meat rares and we saw you creating communities
Around all of these trades and like we want to reward that experience
We want you to feel like we also get it like we also love that the fact that you're doing this and so
it's interesting and I think that's one of the differences between building in web 3 because
um through the power of nfts and through the power of like the sort of
Decentralized ownership your starting point is not that you have to build an audience
Your starting point is that you already have an audience and now you got to build product that they'll love and engage with
And that's always been something that azuki has had to deal with because we very early on acquired a very excited community
And a very loyal community and now we had to deliver on their expectations
And that will continue to be a big challenge into 2024
And it's a very interesting topic, which is the topic of expectations now
Whenever we do something great our community really celebrates and they feel justified in their past conviction
But also they take whatever we did and they create like a 10x expectation for what our next delivery will be
Which is kind of a dangerous road to be on on one hand
It's like amazing to have that passion
But you know if I mentioned something like oh japan airlines might be a sponsor at our next event
The instant reaction of an azuki community member is like oh we're all getting free tickets
Sponsored by japan airlines to go to the event and it's like that is such an unreasonable increase in expectations
Like do you know how hard it will be to even hypothetically launch that partner?
Like actually onboard them in time
But but it is it is just the the fuel like the rocket fuel that drives web 3 projects forward and so
I mean, you know as far as like
Is it bad or is it good? It's actually great, you know
Like it's better to be building with the with the raw materials of like such
Massive passion for a brand than to be trying to get people excited about something that they're not really excited about
But it's a completely different challenge
So you have to switch the way that you that you think about it
So I don't know how well that answers your question
But it was something that I really wanted to talk about so I just took it to to what I wanted to talk about
And it's such an important point right the expectation management and the user retention as you said the expectation wouldn't be
Economy tickets wouldn't be business class, but it would be first class tickets because we are in web 3, right?
And I think this is also one of the reasons why we thought that having that that fireside chat with you
Would be such a valuable discussion because many games that we are talking about many founders that we are talking about
Typically are still in the stage of user acquisition. They are pre-launched
They are maybe just about to launch a token and they are not yet in the user retention phase
and this is why I love to you connected user retention with the collector profile and
We only really touched on the the anime side of things a bit. We didn't get into the gaming
We didn't get into the pbt's. So, um, I do think we have
To to do another round of that, um fireside chat, uh in in in in the future
Because we've been running for a bit more than one hour and I do want to be respectful
Of everyone's time both everyone in the audience as well as our speakers
Um, but before we go, uh, then one final question out of everything that's basically on the horizon
For azuki. What's the number one thing that?
Excites you most for 2024 and beyond if you have to pick one
I think it's the fact that
Decided to communicate our
North star our direction as a brand our our narrative
And to more people more often and so we have really listened to our community and they've said we love the secrecy
But but we love the surprises like keep the surprises
But we need to know what direction you guys are going so that we can all pull in the same direction
And so what i'm really excited about, you know, there's really big things we're releasing in short form anime in april
We're looking we're working along from content anime. We're looking we're working on short form anime content
We're working on partnerships physical products. We're working on hyper casual gaming experiences
We might you know, we we might work on an additional game on top of that
I mean there's all these things
That are exciting because they're finished and they're ready to launch and there's all these things that are exciting because we're in development phase for them
But I think what's going to really change
The vibe and the energy of being in the garden is the fact that we now have a cohesive coherent narrative
That we want to repeat over and over and over so that our community really understand it
So i'm going to be on spaces a lot more we're going to be holding a monthly like deep dive stages tomorrow
We're doing the first one in anime, but we will do once in other topics
And I think it's going to be that like acceleration of co-creation sort of better communication like more clear and more
More current and more um open communication with the community while also keeping
Surprises and exciting things and like a little bit of hype
Um out here and there, you know
So so I think it's just going to be a year where we get to talk about what we do more often and our community is less
Confused about what's happening in the yuzuki world and they have a very much more clear image
And that way we can move away from this energy that we've had in the garden of like what's really going to happen
Should I really be holding this or whatever and like get just get excited about the things that are actually being launched
We don't have to get excited about this like fake hype or like these images that we built in our brains like we can just be
Like okay, this is releasing at this day. Oh, that's really cool. Okay, the beans are in the ipx store right now
I think that's really going to change my job and it's really going to change our relationship with the community
And it's going to allow us to do more co-creation
A bunch of stuff to deliver and and still some mysteries some secret stuff that nobody knows about that. That's that's a great mix for it for
That is such a good answer. I really appreciate it, especially also from the perspective of being a holder myself
Uh with that being said karma, why don't you wrap us up for today's space?
Absolutely. Well i've been searching for my elemental for like two months now
I just can't find any with like black wavy hair so that it actually fits me
If someone has one I I I thereby encourage you
Jokes aside. This has been an incredibly illuminating conversation and I really appreciate everybody's time
I won't repeat myself, but I do want to highlight again that it's
How much you can learn from other projects in the space even if they are not in the same vertical as you and we keep these spaces
On a weekly because there is it's it's one of the single most ry
Friendly things we've ever done at ztx just talking openly with other builders with other communities
And knowing exactly which directions to take or which angles to consider as we expand our product
In order to learn from everybody else because you know
Many people have done this roller coaster ride before or in front of you
And you're just missing out on all the important lessons. They might they may be able to you know, pass on to you along the way
I also wanted to say that I know everybody is incredibly eager to jump back into the ztx beta
We are earlier in the stage of you know, expanding our product and azuki is but
Our entire team is working very diligently on on you know, getting it back online after after we have to implement some changes
We're going to be back with more updates very very soon and relaunching that beta allowing everybody
Also from the garden to jump in and check out ztx is the apps of priority right now
So looking forward to that for sure and thank you them looking forward to more discussions like this in the future
Yeah, I hope all the uh elementals and azukian beans here give ctx a follow give legendary a follow and give karma a follow
Um, you guys are definitely asking all the right questions
And i'm excited about the way that you guys think about product and legendary, man
I've never been a host in one of your spaces, but it was such a great experience
So thanks for having me up
And I hope that you get a bunch of follows from all these azukian beans out here and you do become the number one sloth
And thank you to everyone in the audience have a fantastic rest of your tuesday
And everybody go to santa spaces where lis is going to be talking about beans lots of lots of azuki people in spaces today