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Bull Market Gems | Ether ETF | Gaming | SoFi | RWAs
Recorded: Nov. 15, 2023 Duration: 2:35:13Space Recording
Full Transcription
We have Scott here.
It's great.
for me at least not financial advice but i'm just looking for chains that haven't gotten their um
they're come up to the to the market i'm still surprised v chain is still around uh it's they
they had a really strong push as in terms of narrative like 2018 time frame but like the the
internal structures of like how they did how they wrote out their marketing plan was really poorly
executed um in terms of kind of like narratives that i think would be uh kind of like a potential
yeah but michael michael i spoke to you 10 weeks ago what would you be saying the same thing about
chain link yeah well no no actually chain links chain links internal integrations whenever they
started rolling out they did have marketing issues but their their issues were more technical right
they're basically developers the developers don't know how to do marketing right so like you have
to dumb it down in terms of marketing to make it to where the average consumer understands how the
language is going to be if you're going into there like creating a ccip and saying hey this is going
to be a cross-chain uh interoperability protocol they're probably like what the hell's going on
here but if you kind of break it down and say hey you're using the data to where you can track um
basically track data that's going to be off chain and bring it onto the chain
i understand how they work i'm trying to i'm trying to prove it because it's a different point
is that nobody's talking about chain link even though chain link was operating
uh very effectively in the background v chain has been yes nobody talks about it that's
the point is what i'm trying to get at but v chain has been the the silk road for the last decade
just about when they decide to start putting money into marketing is kind of how i'm approaching for
example uh how much do you might already know this but when you think about big box retailers right
the number one online is amazon right what's the number two
walmart nope ebay do you know how much ebay is worth
26 billion dollars 26 billion dollars
26 billion dollars nobody's heard of ebay but then ebay will do something and they'll put a bunch of money
behind an initiative it might be a web 3 initiative and all of a sudden they're the the hot tits again that's
what i'm that's what i'm looking for in terms of v chain it v chains market cap i believe is 16
billion i could be wrong it might be 1.6 i forget what it is but it's massive they just haven't done
a big marketing push once they do people like oh wow look what v chain's been doing they've been
solving supply chain issues and look at all these use cases so that's what that's my investment thesis
i'm just looking for chains that haven't had that that uh market awareness yet does that make sense
michael yeah yeah and i and i think that also you kind of also consider kind of like a 20 plus layer
ones or layer twos are also coming into the space with fresh liquidity like say just raised at a
billion dollar valuation so they have fresh liquidity for marketing and in an upwards momentum uh in an
upwards environment whenever you start seeing the markets go up what happens is like the layer ones
or layer twos are actually going into competing mode for their marketing spend so we saw this in i
i actually participated in this when i was doing marketing for polygon against avalanche
finance chain and a few others um during the whole 2020 and 2021 cycle and for that portion it's
basically who is the one that's going to be able to outspend in order to kind of acquire users but
my strategy was a little bit different it was basically marketing more effectively during the bear
and spending more during the bear and then spending less during the bowl because like your user
sentiment is going to be um your user demographics is not going to be actually equating
um whenever it comes to like a bull market because then you have speculators that come into the
picture right so like it skews your data while if you're marketing during a bear market um i would
say like kind of like the froth is kind of like off so it's easier to acquire users that are going to be
more targeted that are also going to be more uh tech savvy as well so i think like you're also seeing
a gaming narrative starting to be pushed up as well gaming companies uh so i i pinned onto the top as well
gaming companies majority of them were funded and you know 20 uh 2019 2020 time frame usually takes
two to three years for them to come out with a with a uh beta and alpha or even an alpha or a pretest
and then afterwards you start seeing um you know you're gonna start seeing a wave of users actually
push into start playing these games um and funny enough i've i've actually been able to hack you know
a few games already and kind of like mark basically told the uh the companies like hey look if there
are some issues with your game still um i know that there's tournaments going on for your marketing
spend and everything but just keep it keeping it in mind that the difference between web2 and web3
gaming is that web2 gaming inflation of the assets hurts the company inflation of assets and web3
gaming hurts the entire community but also one of the uh one of the narratives on here as well
is that vcs like to invest in areas that has max pain because max pain equals max profit and looking
at like defy and kind of like all of the other sectors in crypto as well uh gaming was the was the
probably the gaming was the top one that was the most underperformed um in terms of like majority
of investors were actually underwater with their investments and then also on top of that as well
you're looking at a three you know two to three year burn before a product actually pushes
out for revenue so i think that gaming is a really big industry um you saw in 2021 the nft wave of
where everyone's getting bored apes they're getting kind of like minty minting sprees there's a lot of
projects coming out but i think the nft structure of art and kind of like pfps was the wrong narrative
for the mass adoption approach i think that real world assets is actually going to be dominating that
side with uh nfts hey i'm going to just jump in really fast and uh and chase down this this this
opening apologies for front running the hand list i've got like literally three minutes before i have
to run to a thing wanted to just briefly mention i love what michael just laid out as far as max pain
equaling the potential for max profit i'm just gonna i'm gonna ad lib there just a tiny bit and i went
ahead and tend something to the nest as well which is current google trends so the data you know the
trend is your friend and and data is what shows you that right as it is right now um today right we see
that definitely there's max pain and when you evaluate some of the current retail searches retail
web searches for some of these assets the critical infrastructure of more established projects
makes sense to people right bitcoin investing is a corollary to investing in gold in the mind of
retail they're searching for it you can't like this is not these aren't ads that are being served to
people that they are then clicking on these are voluntary searches on google so this is what the
mind of retail actually is web3 gaming yeah which line is that correct dead last as far as
now i'm not saying that there's anything wrong with that i'm just saying that today right now retail
is not showing quite the interest that we want it to in order for web3 projects to perform
the way we hope they will and i love that wag me games is here i love what wag me games is doing
i love what scott and iron are doing they are the epitome of passionate founders and they are the
ones that are going to make it right they're like i'm just calling it right these are the ones that are
going to make it people who pattern their business after these two are going to make it because they
they have the passion to bring them through some of the pain but uh but as it is today right right now
v chain why is it number one in google searches everyone just shat all over it so why is it number
one here's why they had a strategic partnership with ufc you look at the ass of every fighter
in the octagon what does it say v chain retail doesn't understand it but they recognize it now
i yield the time love you guys bye
and the mic was dropped
i'm still perma bearish on v chain that was the worst take i've ever heard from
great insight by minor biz i wanted to hear what i think his bull market gems were but sorry go ahead
guys i think i think wag me had his hand up before i did uh i wanted to shout out him to wag
this is the perfect time wag me games is the official sponsor and i want to have scott come
in here and scott quick just like 30 second pitch what is wag me games and then say your piece
yeah great thanks guys so yeah wag me games we're a gaming franchise wag me games the name of the
franchise our first game is wag me defense we're a mobile strategy tower defense game similar gameplay
to clash royale those of you who play mobile games but we're just as much like
like clash royale as fortnite is like call of duty our goal is to lead with a transmedia type
franchise where we own all the ip have an original story we have comic books on openc we're developing
our own anime right now actually it's come along quite well and really just trying to foster a
community around enjoying fun games and really diving into the lore of the characters so you're no
longer just making the best team you're making teams and strategies around your favorite characters
and really bringing gameplay to a whole new level here we host battle royales two to three times a
week we have our own custom category on kick.com where our streamers are uploading content and you
know really trying again foster that gaming community where everyone's just trying to come together play a
fun game talk smack and then give away fun prizes obviously um as far as the conversation lots of great
insights here by doug hype by digital uh and by seth as well um kind of circling back to what you were
saying earlier noah where you were kind of asking you know aside from the you know bitcoin and ethereum
what's the next thing and you mentioned infrastructure and then after that you suggested like hey maybe
gaming comes after that right and what i really think is going to happen it's a beat no building in the
space what i've realized is we've had to spend just as much time building our game as we've had to spend
working on building the infrastructure right like working with um immutable working with magic and
working with all these you know different companies to try to create the best technology to allow players
whether they're web 2 or web 3 to come in download the game and start playing with as little friction as
possible and so uh i guess my suggestion would be would be gaming is definitely going to be a big
hit in the next bull run feel it in my bones and if you really like the infrastructure play i would
dive into what infrastructures are being built that provide the least amount of barriers into getting
into gaming and then see what gamings are building on those infrastructures and so for us you know being
the first mobile game that's going to be able to implement immutables passport and all the seamless
integration that they're already offering that's why i'm excited what do you guys think about that
yeah i think it's a great point and it's kind of what i was alluding to if you don't know how to
pick the right games if you don't know how to pick the right uh real world asset protocols i don't even
know how people are going to pseudo invest into real world assets i think the the safest bet and i put
quotations on safest is is the infrastructure that this stuff is probably going to be built on so is
immutable x going to be the um layer two that most of the games are built on i don't know but it does seem
to me at the moment that it's it's um it's in the leader it at least it's one of the ones in the lead
i have not messed around on solana too much but the community cannot be refuted and also the idea
that it's easier to onboard on solana from what i understand than it is in ethereum i think that could
be a big gaming play and of course avax is a big gaming infrastructure play with the subnets with games
like shrapnel and d5 kingdoms that are already utilizing the subnet so those are kind of the safer
plays that i i think about when i think about investing in infrastructure and really quick
full disclosure i do own a wag me genesis nft um i met scott and i in back in i think march of 2022
when you guys came on for an ama so you guys have come on for multiple amas and and now you're a
sponsor of today's show so these guys have stuck around man there's they're still kicking and that
genesis nft is looking pretty good so um okay well so far uh we talked about gaming and go ahead
i don't have a genesis nft well you should have been around in april of 2022 when i hosted them
i'm telling you that's back when we were hosting i mean this was still bull market this is a late bull
market we were hosting five to seven amas a day and these guys i'm not even it's not even a
a bullshit show i mean these guys really stood out i reached out to iron afterwards and i said hey
man i would love to get um i would love to get my hands on one of these genesis nfts and by the way
bullish bullish on projects that didn't force launch during the bear that had both the the
aptitude and awareness as well as the resources to wait until it made sense
um i think that's also a really good sign for projects yeah no doubt noah you saw the you saw
the human emperor suit at nftnyc right i did man you were rocking that thing in pretty pretty warm
temperatures that was fun every time my friends come to my house they're like they want to try on the
suit like i don't think you would understand how much work it is to put it on
doc yeah boomer question here uh ama can you please define that for me anyone else doesn't know what
you're talking about ask me anything basically a podcast association yeah basically a podcast style
interview of uh project protocol and solution you start with founder introductions or whoever's
speaking on behalf of the project's introduction i get i get it i get it got it i think that the
community needs to be aware that when they're when they're trying to onboard people in my generation
or people who aren't even familiar with gaming or crypto or uh or the entity any any the whole the
whole universe that these acronyms um are problematic to communicating and onboarding uh you know new communities
yeah i mean i think am a probably more of a generational thing than a crypto thing you
have amas for other industries as well you can have amas but and you can have a uh a donald trump
ama you can have a donald trump and celebrities really made it popular especially when movie runs
like that was like the biggest thing amas don't give doc any ideas okay no trump amas
i used the trump example because i know doc it's not really a new thing doug doug what's going on man
see there's no such thing as a stupid question you guys got to remember that okay
oh yeah doc amas stand for ask mary anything too soon
oh yeah are you trying to propose to me right now
no no didn't mary trump pass away yesterday
sorry go ahead doug where they kill the room
a fidget old man before we before we leave web3 gaming though no i just wanted to say something
real quick because i'm really curious as to people if people think web3 gaming is on the rise or not
like that chart shows that like there's less public interest in web3 gaming and you know if you go
into reddit or any of these like web2 gaming forums almost everybody to the t dislikes nfts for various
reasons but i'll tell you this noah so like that's talking about paying attention to the market in the
general sentiment right but you all if you look deeper and you talk to people like myself or maybe
michael or people that are like you know really intelligent you know you'll realize that the
reason those markets and those sentiments are there is because all the content creators and
influencers have vilified nfts and web3 and now we can make a comeback if we can have content creation
shows amazing things happening and like you know really educate people and bring people together
because eventually the technology and the cool stuff happening is going to win out eventually that
sentiment is going to shift and they're going to realize that you know web3 gaming and the things
that are happening here are pretty awesome like shrapnel just getting 20 million dollars of investment
money and there's a lot of really cool things happening in web3 right now let me tell you like there's
so many things to be excited about that are actually real not just speculation not just like you know made up
things but actual like people and projects in this space right now that come from a background of
doing huge things like for example noah shrapnel's head of marketing tony he is one of the people
that that brought that merger of amazon and twitch together like people that have done huge gigantic
things in the space in the past that know what they're doing that understand markets that understand
business and that's really the things that make me bullish because it's not just people randomly
deciding to make a project anymore it's people that are really really knowledgeable and that have
liquidity and can make big dents in the space and um and bring it all together so you know there's
actually like a lot of reasons for us to be like really excited but the question is is like that
enough is like the market itself and how long is it going to take i think eventually we're definitely
going to get there it depends on just like how quick it is you know i'm really trying to deploy right
now doug like so much dry powder is being deployed out of venture back into gaming right now it's
absolutely crazy to see how much dry powder that's just been held up for the last like year that is
just needs to get spent because of vesting cycles and it just so happens that the markets are returning
so i mean literally right now i mean if you just look at any of your you know top four top four uh
exchanges and you look at your top four vc firms right now and you ask them where they're deploying
capital at the moment i promise you it's all in gaming the amount of conversations gaming studios
are having right now with you know sefolio ventures bitmart you know bitmarts uh you know
venture arm right now is crazy these these these studios right now are like evaluating themselves
right now based on how big time is doing how shrapnel did right so i don't know like what this means
long term but i can tell you that at the end of the day i mean follow the money i think that's just how
the game works at the moment and if you follow where the money is going the dry powder is getting
released in gaming at the moment from nway gaming with animoca to you know what's the folio ventures
doing with arcstream capital there's a lot of good things going on which is a bullish signal for us
obviously if we're talking about the broader market like obviously i think there's a sentiment that we're
never going to get over which is that most traditional gamers shit on web3 gaming however i think
that's just a lack of infrastructure and proper esports opportunities for game web2 gamers to get
introduced to web3 gaming i promise you if a couple of these companies i'm investing into are keeping
my eyes on right now that are organizing esport events for web3 focused gaming do some big numbers
it's going to attract other web2 esports gamers who think they can fry up these web3 gamers and get
access to capital which will naturally start boosting the awareness of it but what do i know we'll see
yeah doug so while i i played shrapnel at consensus and i will say it was indistinguishable from any other
fps that i played and i agree with kaylin i think while there are probably some awesome games being
built in the background that are getting bc funding the majority of the nft game or sorry the majority of
the crypto games and the tokens that are being speculated on are not the in my opinion are not
the ones i think that they're just that they are meant to be specular they are being speculated on and
sure people might make money off of them but i generally think that gaming web3 gaming as a sector
it has a lot of room to grow and it still needs to win over the hearts of the average gamer that just
enjoys playing um i don't know fortnite or wow or um baldur's gate or any of the other web2 games that
are fun to play and there's no um there's no paywall to to get through let's go i mean i could go on
about this for days i i just think that web3 gaming is still quite speculative and it still has a lot of
room to grow and it's it's so hard to tell even the good games like shrapnel it's so hard to tell
if this is going to be around in five years so many big game studios have tried and poured in money
and and failed um in building a great video game that has longevity let's go to yeah let's go to ryan
yeah uh one thing i wanted to to jump in on here when it comes to the web3 gaming that i think is
is going to be a big catalyst in this cycle is that i i feel like one of the reasons why gamers
really there's there's a few reasons why i guess traditional gamers have hated on uh crypto gaming
or web3 gaming um and and one of those reasons definitely during the last cycle at least was the
fact that uh nfts were bad for the environment or the energy usage that it required to to mint nfts and
the cost associated with moving nfts around just it it made the the concept of web3 based gaming with
embedded nfts and in-game collectible items uh that that you own kind of i think it was a big turnoff
for a lot of the the community that's why when you saw in reddit forums and in gaming forums so much
hate being being spewed towards web3 gaming but i think that narrative is is really finished at this
cycle i mean we have so many first of all we switched ethereum from proof of work to proof of stake
right so we that that is just factually no longer true it's not an energy consumptive uh blockchain
anymore uh you know 99 or more reduction in energy usage and so you have the environmental impact
element of it that people were were screaming about uh no longer being a factor and then on the other
hand you have all these scaling solutions that make it faster and cheaper to move these items
around and to trade these items and to make these games you know more affordable to play and so i think
those two elements are really change the way that people think about web3 gaming or or i guess some
of the concerns that gamers have with web3 gaming uh and then and then the last thing i would say is
that i i really think that once the the real catalyst for web3 gaming will be when when the users don't even
understand that they're using blockchain in the background they don't need to know that they're in a
web3 environment necessarily uh but if the technology and the underlying infrastructure
makes the game more enjoyable and allows you to uh interact and have interoperability between different
games and and collect items in a different kind of way then i think that's what brings users into
the ecosystem that's why we saw companies like roblox i think the roblox ceo is just on cnbc last week
talking about how they you know could potentially see nfts being brought into their ecosystem that could
port from game to game and so i think that uh you have these you'll have these traditional gaming
companies and a lot of the names people have been talking about here who um you know have come into
the space because the technology is so compelling they're just going to build front ends and that
that people recognize and and are used to using whether that's mobile or or what have you in the
back end it's going to be the the web3 element of it that uh that many gamers may not even realize
they're using until they're deep into the gaming rabbit hole uh is nobody talking i was i was i was
talking but i was muted um i don't know what happened there i i just want to echo what ryan what ryan was
saying there i always say that the future of mass adoption is when blockchain or web3 or whatever you
want to call it from a ui perspective a front-end ui perspective is indistinguishable and it's
interfaceable the way that we um interface with web2 and the way that we we see web2 when we log on our
computers michael yeah i like a lot of the narratives that he kind of brought up like if you have a game
that's going to be very fun and you have it to where you have to log in with a wallet then you
have to verify that you have to like create additional loops uh in order for the user to
actually play the game they're gonna have a bad time right and i think that another narrative that
not a lot of people might know is going to be the uh the campaigns that actually was produced
by the busy web2 companies what do gaming companies um to kind of push away from nfts because they
see it as a as a model that would actually hurt their business model so let me give some brief
context um when i was 13 i played a game called maple story and i made ten thousand dollars a month
doing power leveling services selling in-game currency uh selling in-game assets and everything
and i probably got over a thousand plus accounts banned from that um basically just just from that
career afterwards went on to csgo i supplied a lot of the the lottery uh a lot of the lottery kind of
like uh content creators that would basically need a lot of uh different items i use botnets to kind
of create 300 plus simultaneous accounts running in order to collect assets um and then afterwards
also coached a team in fortnite even though i don't know how to play the game at all um and have
them qualified in the 2019 world cup so for like each one of these different games right there's a way
for users to kind of like find uh basically like they're going to pay money to get skins pay money to
kind of like use for items or different things it all goes to the company and if you have if you
actually add nfts into it there could be a potential to where the revenue is then cut right so you're
looking at user economies and you want to control the user economy flow because you you are the game
provider you want them to be able to uh to not take any of the profits and just wanted to just you
know they play the game but i think web3 companies are now looking at exploring user economies and seeing
how they can create revenue models that could potentially last with it um but it is like you
think of these content creators and like these esports um these esports organizations like their
main bread and butter is basically going into these tournaments in the web in the web 2 side
and getting paid and sponsored by some of these companies to play the game and bring these teams on
to kind of like build the competitive esports portion it's like for them it's like why bite the hand
that's going to feed you no i don't want to add nfts into this game and that's where the narrative
kind of starts shifting for a lot of people if you looked on reddit uh before reddit reddit had this
thing to where they uh airdropped i believe it was like a million plus nfts to a lot of its uh a lot
of its users overnight on polygon and like the the news for nfts and kind of like narratives on reddit
literally shifted right because like people were like oh crap i didn't even know this was actually an
nft i used this you know it was a seamless process it wasn't too difficult i used i used a
credit card to purchase this thing you know if you make it easier for people to kind of onboard
you're gonna you're going to have a greater user experience which wouldn't care what type of
technology it is like for me as a gamer i was like i don't care what's on the back end of it as long as
i can enjoy the game there's no bugs with it and there's not a freaking uh you know lobby full of
hackers in there that's going to ruin my good time right i want to be preferably the hacker on it
but in a web 2 environment once again the inflation goes to the company in terms of uh the revenue
while in a web 3 environment exploits and kind of like uh glitches and all these things
now hurt the entire community and not just the company so it is a little bit more of like a
a liability portion for companies as well by the way michael you just gave me a like literally i'm
going to make a viral uh marketing campaign you know those things where people like walk in the
streets and then like ask them questions that are like really dumb for like a dollar
it would be something where i ask people about their in-game their in-game assets and then
let them know that they're actually nfts and see the response i think that would be a that would be a
great campaign that'd be dope because like a lot of people have the stigma of like nfts or scams but
majority majority of the companies are already looking at how to build um nft structures into their
games or even like ubisoft and all the other ones are looking at creating uh smaller brands to test
you know basically to test the the technology before they place it into their major brands
but um maple story is coming on to the uh the blockchain so i'm definitely waiting i want to
see how they uh how they're going to implement this are they are they moving over the game entirely or
are they just creating an iteration of the game on the blockchain they're they're they're creating
another version of it on the blockchain um and they're going to be on i believe they're going to
be a polygon cdk so they're going to have their own private chain um that's just going to be for uh
for nexon and from maple story that's interesting i uh i wonder how many other mmos would follow suit
if it if it was a success j man what's up no how you doing brother doing good a little bit under the
weather i have a cough but um otherwise man doing good market's looking market's looking how it's
looking huh that's great i got a call there no market's looking up i love seeing these these dips
getting gobbled up and i'm i'm hoping for a bitcoin spot etf approval between now and january 10th or
whatever the date is yeah it'll be it'll be it'll follow the trend of of you know the previous years
where you know there's you know some some kind of sell-off november ish going to to december then
obviously turn around january a little bit of correction february then we just you know wherever
life takes us from there this would be fantastic um but i i don't know who who was mentioning this but
somebody was mentioning venture capital statistics and uh for for those of you that um
um haven't been on my spaces with uh with mobi media um i am a very large contributor and behind
the scenes to venture capitalists um i've raised uh around 19 million dollars on 14 projects through
partnerships um i have a large as large as tier one venture capital firms tier ones are considered
anything one hundred and fifty two hundred fifty million plus um all the way down to tier three and
tier fours um been in cryptos 2016 and i do a lot of uh analytics stats uh vetting and that kind of
deal for you know venture capitalists so um i i had to triple check my my statistics because you know me
i'm also an ex-gamer i was competitive gaming shoot in my little teen years but yeah it was uh it was
definitely um a good ride so i i when i found crypto i said gaming has to be part of this this is
gaming is in my blood i want this to work but let's reverse this back because some statistics
were put on and i want to just kind of correct this it's okay i understand it could just be from
maybe you know wherever but um my and on my last analytics uh the top let's say the top six
coinbase animoca a16z alameda is still on there spartan and polychain and this is by investment
size and the amount of investment projects that were there so without animoca let's take animoca out
of this because they're obviously the gaming venture capitalists right the the next six um they haven't
invested in gaming at least back from may um i went back to binance and binance has not invested in
gaming for a while while meaning august i went back to august looked at all their investments
from curve alt layer kilio kinza so yeah just we just want to kind of kind of bring this up i i don't
know the gentleman that was that was kind of on there but that's this is definitely my my background
and stuff oh okay i'll put throw it out there and say that was me i i should have clarified you're
right sure you're correct i really should clarify that i'm referring to gaming focus vcs when i said that
you're you're 100 correct i don't notice any other traditional you know like you mentioned spartan
or any of these other vcs because frankly i don't really touch that ecosystem much at all i was more
so referring to game but you're you're 100 correct and we should be more careful with what we're saying
because we don't want to we don't want to put the wrong information out there especially on a big
panel like this and and give people the wrong impression because you are correct it's a super slow
it's a super slow roll right now yeah and i'm not listening i'm not shitting on you
already do they include metaverse in those math is metaverse gaming yeah so i i do the the the
analytics sites that i use they do categorize everything very specific and tax accounting
infrastructure if it's metaverse gaming lending stable coin you know all that deal just to get
okay okay i reiterate the question just just for clarity oh when you when in both of your statistics
were you guys including or excluding uh metaverses or digital ecosystems from gaming or is that
included in the gaming system um i did i did a quick roundup on gaming since that was specifically
mentioned but i can do that or anyone else can i can i'd be more than happy to get my source um one of my
analytics site they're they're more of an on a broad aspect is crypto-fundraising.info follow the money
my friends i'm just i'm just i'm just asking yeah oh i said no no no i said no no yeah okay so
if you change them and include metaverses i think those numbers are drastic and different correct
i can i can you know what i can go out kind of mute myself and i can i'll come back in a few minutes
okay all right doug i don't i i only i only say that for a specific reason is that uh i don't wow
almost got killed i don't think that metaverse i don't think that gaming or metaverses will be
different fundamental ecosystems just because you're just because you're playing uh a competitive
activity i i think it's larger business uh ecosystems that's why i just want to know the answer
before i again we're in front of a large audience
doug what do you think so you know that's the thing is i try to look and see what i can actually
find like when i'm going around the metaverse and the web 3 world of like what are companies actually
doing right so and i'm doing this as a huge segue you know what because i am now officially on your
show making the biggest announcement of my entire life no are you ready for this
i'm ready okay so this is the biggest announcement my entire life noah like um i'm launching this
brand hyped and we literally you know speaking about like web 3 games and their their ability to make an
impact shrapnel is now my official sponsor and they're actually actively going out and supporting
people like crazy in this ecosystem right now bro like of course like now i'm tied down tied in with
them like financially obviously but this is the thing they are going around and not only vocally but
monetarily supporting hiring people and trying to really show people not only that their project's
going to be great but the ecosystem itself needs to have support content creators show hosts all this
different stuff like um tomorrow gamified is a great show too that sam hosts and they're also like
tied in with them as well and supporting them it's such a huge thing to have a web 3 games in this space
that are picking it up and doing huge stuff scott here with wag me games is doing all kinds of cool
stuff with content creators right we're good friends we talk on the phone all the time like this kind of
stuff is what actually moves the needle and shows you know what's happening in games so like in the
tweet i just put up above i want to know from your audience noah and the people because this is a
huge cross section of people across web 3 it's not just gaming people it's not just finance people
it's not just sofi people i want to know your like your impressions of like where do you think web
3 gaming is going what do you actually see happening are you actually involved are you playing games you
know like late at night i'm playing like sometimes i'm playing fortnite og sometimes i'm playing
runiverse sometimes i'm playing wag me defense you know what i'm saying like there is a lot
happening right now to be excited about if you look at it from the actual builder side of web 3 gaming
and the support they're giving now on the other side noah you'll see that like there are some things
that are happening in web 3 gaming where people are being laid off like you know people are like you
know at a point where things aren't going so well for their project right so there's two sides to the
story but i'm telling you right now that if you are actually in the driver's seat there's really cool
exciting things happening and there's liquidity actually like um kaylin said there is powder in
the space right now and there are things happening to be excited about so but that usually happens when
they see actual communities being active right tomorrow i'm going to be talking to defy kingdoms they
have a huge community of real hardcore players right but you don't often see them in places like
this they usually stick in their own community but right now we need to be like the tipping point we
need to like be the flame that brings people together to come together to show the strength
of web 3 gaming and not just be like in our own sections we need to come to shows like this with like
moby and you guys we need to come and hang out with like wag me games we need to hang out with
kaylin with michael and everybody here that's doing stuff and show that you're actually like
invested with your time and when that happens liquidity shows up and i'm really excited to further
this conversation on this show and in other places with people like michael and scott and
kaylin and jcrypto and everybody here because you guys this is a really good discussion right now
this is really important for people to understand because we can make an impact through content
creation and these shows and all these people here in noah that are in your space how many people
are here right now 500 600 700 people to understand if you become involved and start hanging out with
like people like noah and fidgetle and michael that you can really become part of something that's
going to grow and be like the next wave of what's going to happen with fintech web 3 gaming all that
stuff so i'm really curious i'm gonna people know doug i'm gonna piggyback by the way i'm officially
going to listen to any of your calls during the next poll because you are the worst chiller i've
ever heard in my entire life which means you're not rugging anybody and just just drop your your
recommendations i'll be following so all ball it's true i'm overly honest digital it's one of those
things where like i can't help it okay so i'm gonna i by the way that's like that's like talking
to noah like noah helps me like convert crypto and i can hear his brain like having ethical conversations
i would listen to whatever noah said as well just to be honest with you all right i don't believe no
one knows how to go so so i'm gonna play devil's advocate here for a minute doug and i want web 3
gaming to succeed more than most people and i as someone that played more wow that i can't care to
admit i really wish because i was an early adopter of wow because i played in the early days i really
wish that the notion of asset ownership on the blockchain existed because a lot of the items
that i earned could be traced back to early 2005 and we all know when it comes to notoriety on the
blockchain when it comes to uh history on the blockchain things like let's let's refer to things
like crypto punks that um being part of the early days and having items that were earned in an ecosystem
in its nascent period can be worth a lot decades and at this point it'll be 20 years almost 20 years
since since wow was released it could be worth uh quite a bit of money i could trade it on an nft and
to piggyback off of what michael said earlier like i could trade it on a proprietary nft marketplace
activision could earn a percentage of that everyone wins i am very excited for web 3 games when they
finally or blockchain games or whatever you call it when they're finally done right and i'm not
refuting i mean i wouldn't have wag me up here as a as a show sponsor um i wouldn't uh you know i i
wouldn't have them um as part of our you know as part of our show and and also um wouldn't have
projects like shrapnel up here if i didn't think they were they were pushing the needle forward in the
right direction even actually i think they were trying to push the needle forward in the right
direction but i i worry that it's early because when retail investors they come and they see something
like d5 kingdoms and they go and they they put the jewel token in coin gecko and they see the price
has gone from twenty dollars to ten cents they're sitting there scratching their heads like what what this
is uh this is a ponzi scheme even if i'm not saying it is or it isn't i'm just saying that
that is the public's perception of web 3 games of nfts when they go and they look at a chart or when
they are told that hey this person is owning you in this game because they have a genesis nft pack
and this genesis nft pack costs two thousand dollars um and now it's trading for ten thousand dollars and
so i think that with web three games they need to learn to walk a fine line between not allowing
pay to play uh or pay to win because that's what a lot of them do and that's what gamers hate but also
making sure that there isn't this underlying token that is getting dumped that that is having real
world value traded for it and then getting dumped in the open market um like we saw with some of these
early play to earn models but anyway i i'll pass it to scott
thank you noah a couple things one um michael i'm gonna be i'm gonna dm you for my personal account
because we were on a space with each other before and i meant to dm you i want to make sure you get
in there and try to break my game i think that that type of knowledge is just invaluable i mean well
super valuable i guess is the best word to say it so i'll be shooting you a dm uh but noah so kind
of getting back to what you were talking about with owning your assets and being very early to some
of these games so what we've actually noticed with our game even in beta our day one and day
seven retention numbers are like astronomically higher than we even anticipated them to be and
i think a lot of that is attributed to the fact that you know the even though we're free we're free
to play game people are playing the game and they're getting these different characters and
they're leveling them up and they're having fun but they can go to the marketplace and see that
there's value attached to that real world value whether it's five dollars or like some of our
legendary uh founders edition cards have been selling on aqua and immutable for like 500 right
but regardless what it is it's that collector's mentality so for example i collect funko pops i have
all of the dragon ball z funko pops and you know part of the flex of collecting is saying hey
i have this funko pop that you don't have that's really cool and it's worth three thousand dollars
right and in the gaming world and collecting world it's never really seen as showing off because we all
love to see these collectible things so much that like we just think it's cool to know somebody that
owns you know an unopened you know super mario brothers nes game right like oh i got a buddy who has
you know the original nintendo still in the box and it's worth 50 grand like in this world it's cool
to kind of brag about those things and i think what's happening in these games that do have nfts
so for example i play big time and i love flexing my battle axe absurd runner because there's only a
hundred of them and if you wanted one today you're spending like 900 on the marketplace and so when i'm
running around in dungeons and doing my thing and hanging out with my party i see people because
you know it tells you when you're being inspected i see people inspecting my gear all the time and i
know i have good gear and i do the same thing to other people who have gear that i think is cool and
so i think it's like now that you can flex like hey you know i have this it's really rare and i know
if i wanted to sell it today i could sell it at a premium i think that just kind of adds to the allure
of making owning an nft cool what do you guys think about that
yeah i mean i think that this is not i first i agree scott i think it's very cool i think this is
not something that's new i think this is something that existed in mmos before blockchain was a
mainstream topic or a mainstream innovation you can go back to wow again i'll always revert back
to wow if you were part of one of the few guilds that could clear noxoramus back in the early vanilla
days you just chilled on your character in a major city and you afk'd and you would have a crowd of
people surrounding you and inspecting you so i think if you could scale that uh beyond what are these
words you're saying what which which definition which acronym would you like for me to break down
yeah welcome to my world but basically scott what i'm what i'm saying is i i agree i think that if you
could broaden this outside of the world of a of an mmo or even a video game then that's um that's when
you're talking metaverse that's when you're talking someone inspecting you and seeing your board ape and
your crypto punk and all the other um all your neo tokyo citizen and all the other stuff that people
uh that people showcase on their their web three well zapper profiles or dbank profiles
michael uh sorry go ahead doug i just wanted to throw in real quick well they're dude if you under if
you actually look at reality the metaverse exists already within first person shooter games they're
getting users to create their own maps and their own ways to interact and have fun and they figured
out a way to like create their own kind of version of a metaverse and it actually really works really
well our version of metaverse is where we just like create some world or some place to hang out and
nothing really happens it's not going so well right you really need to look at web 2 and what's popular
and what people are doing and they're utilizing content creators and gamers to supplement their own like
you know actual production and create these like places for them and then they get like you know
maybe some rewards from that or whatever but we really need to pay attention to like when we use
we use all these terms like metaverse whatever blah blah blah we sound like a bunch of boomers
half the time because we're not actually paying attention to the successes that are happening what
actually works with people right right now in fortnite you can go play all these special zones
special maps and people are using them they're actually like the biggest part of it right now i just did
that last night with a bunch of like the only people you know what i mean it was a really great
time and it was a lot of fun so we need to look at things from the actual perspective of what's
working and what's happening and what humans want to do versus like us trying to like force this idea
of a metaverse on people right and um you know eventually it's all going to kind of merge together
but like our concept of the metaverse when we talk about we need to understand also the fact that
there's like literally a billion like 16 year olds in an actual metaverse right now
yeah absolutely um i'm excited to see maple story because the maple story is an og and i've heard
a lot of things about maple story and i had friends that played maple story so i'm excited to see
an iteration a blockchain iteration of a very popular mmo michael i i freaking reached out to them and i
literally told them i was like you guys have to get me on because uh i basically was uh part of a guild
called uh basically fm king which is for free markets so we actually controlled the free market
of the game and at one point nexon actually made it to where like so we were we were actually gaining
a lot of traction and a lot of uh in-game assets like we we went ahead and went past the maximum
uh amount of money a character could have which is like 2.148 billion so we we had multiple accounts
that we would create and i think our entire treasury was like 50 or 60 billion in terms of like uh the
in-game currency and we would supply them to kind of like websites and all these things because like
once again people if they want to speed past the game cool pay you know pay me usd uh pay me usd for
some of the in-game currency but also playing devil's advocate as well as like i was a nightmare
for the developers like they it it got so bad to the point where like me and my guild um i i don't
know if this is official from them but they changed the game completely to where it was easier to kind
of like power level it was easier to level it was easier to get items and everything which kind of
really killed um any like monetization portions that us guilds were trying to create an exploit
so i think that another thing for like web3 games right now as well as like i was already able to
hack some like i was i was able to find some exploits on some of the games that we've mentioned in this
call already uh in this um you know in this twitter spaces already and i'm you know i'm actively reaching
out to them making sure that they're able to patch these things up and everything because once again
it's gonna have cascading effects on the community and if i'm able to find which i already did uh
find a way to duplicate items and make it to where i can almost infinitely print an item um it's good
it's it's really gonna hurt because hackers are able to kind of go in and be able to exploit them
there was i don't want to mention any of the names just in case if anything happens but there is one fps
game that i was able to hack into that was actively hosting a tournament and i was able to climb on
the leaderboards pretty quickly um i was i i reached top place and then afterwards i messaged them and
i was like hey look just fyi i was hacking could you please remove me off of the leaderboards um i
know that there's potential for like tokens to be placed into my account and everything just go ahead
and just ban me i i do not want to receive them for from the tournament and this is how i actually hacked
the game so i actually gave them the video me doing a deep dive of like how i hacked them and how i
basically ruined the experience for others as well so i think that like web 3 you know what
their gaming companies really really need to focus on the biggest thing is security because if i'm
able to go in there exploit a game whether it's going to be small bugs or even big bugs as well
like if i get god mode in a game that there's there's no way for you to kind of like stop me
right if in f in an fps game if i have it to where there's speed hacks there's unlimited ammo there's going
to be uh under the bullets as well i put on chams where i can see through the walls like i play then
again i can place on aimbot and all these things and i go into the game for like five minutes and
figure these things out imagine the experience whenever you have a million users and let's say
one percent of them is like me and we're just going to go in and exploit the entire time you'll
have like gta all over again where you go into a lobby you just get instant killed and spawn camped by
by these hackers so gonna reset the room really quick and focus the last part of the broadcast on
sofi because we've seen the viral rampant production of these in my opinion premature sofi dApps and
platforms like friend tech like stars arena and now we're seeing republic which is at least from a
very quick analysis taking the instagram and tick tock model and trying to bring it on the blockchain
the the question is is and i want to get republic on at some point but um with a platform like republic
is it really that much different than an instagram or a tick tock i mean isn't all they're doing just
taking a model that exists adding a token to it putting it on the blockchain and saying hey this is
decentralized what what about it makes it decentralized michael all right so let's let's
kind of like go into the first one which was uh friend tech so friend tech was able to raise from
vcs and everything they implemented a model to where you can actually finally like for content creators
and kind of like alpha groups and everything uh you can finally reward yourself and your users by
investing into you so it's like similar to like social investing right or like content creator investing
into their companies and everything for them to scale and grow and receiving part of the revenue
now if you're on instagram you're on uh facebook or kind of like other platforms as well like you
don't get incentivized or paid for a lot of your engagements so like a lot of content creators will
have to actually go and produce uh and create sponsorships and create different revenue flows for
them to actually continue on supporting their content like if you look at like uh the early days of
like youtube as well as like no one was getting paid for youtube but and what happened was basically
like no one was able to make it a full-time job but they had they had to find ways to you know support
their lifestyle and and do this as a full-time career and same thing for like twitch you know twitch
started to monetize youtube started to monetize uh you're looking at twitter as well like twitter started
to monetize for its creators as well and i think that the more that you're able to empower your creators the
more that you're able to uh to effectively get them to continue on producing content and being on
the platform so being being on the social media networks so like that's why you also see like
only fans really really scale really hard because like for them it's like those type of like that niche
of content it was a token gate it was kind of like not a token it was like a more of like a membership
access type of portal but it also rewarded the the content creators you see patreon as well with their
subscription models to give you exclusive content exclusive access so like these social platforms i
think that as more models kind of come in uh friend tech did a really good in a integration in the
beginning with kind of like adding on celebrities and everything but it's also kind of like the clubhouse
days right like you come on to clubhouse it was hype for like a good season or two and then afterwards
like all right cool now what's kind of like the next narrative for it so they didn't get the the
the proper user um i would say user retention strategy so they had the user onboarding strategy
which is really really well but the user retention portion retaining a user on your platform is the
one of the hardest things to do if you're i mean the the second hardest thing to do the first hardest
things to do is get them to actually go onto the platform the second thing is retaining them
but once you lose a user um this is also kind of like in uh previous businesses as well it's like
if you lose a customer let's say you go to a restaurant if you lose a customer it takes you
probably double the marketing spend in order to acquire that user back so like you're looking at
companies that really have really uh really good onboarding programs but it's just the retention
portion so then you start seeing like stars arena stars arena once again got hacked um but avalanche
was able to cover for them and everything refunded the users on that portion but like for that portion
it's like if you get hacked your your stigma especially at an early stage growth is going
to be around you got hacked like i don't i definitely don't want to be on you and then now
you're looking at like uh republic republic is actually before republic there was tomo tomo was
another version as well they started integrating more of uh private chat rooms and some of these
stuff now is incorporated with frantek and stuff but uh for like a private instagram you know now you're
looking at token gated content that once again you can have uh i believe it's a hundred percent
revenue after fees and stuff like that goes back to the user and the content creators so the thing
about that is like now it's an incentivization model for them to be retained on the platform
you now have a way for to keep the users on but one of the things is that if you're on the app
you have to start looking at your user data and seeing how can i keep this user on the application
for at least five minutes like if you're scrolling through instagram you're probably on there for
like like you know five minutes ten minutes maybe 15 20 minutes but like if you're looking at like
tiktok tiktok for example you're probably scrolling like endlessly for like i do this as i i do this
sometimes as well as like i'm scrolling and i'm like oh i really gotta stop i got shit to do but like
you know like they the way that they create their content in their uh what is it called their their
their engine finding and their engine matching as well for content is really key the engine
matching is the most important one especially if you want to do continuous scrolling or kind of like
uh continuous content delivery and integrating it to like adding discovery for additional content
creators that would be within their niche so studying the user understanding what the user likes
what the user doesn't like as well okay but so with frintech though you had a key that was changing
price based on the demand uh the the demand for it people were speculating on each other's keys
this is quite different patreon or only fans or even yeah patreon or only fans for example where you have
exclusive access to someone's content but you're not speculating on a token it's a fixed price
but so you're looking at one of the ways that frintech kind of like scaled and descaled so like if you
were early into the platform you were able to scale because you were you were actually able to produce
and kind of like bring the up wave with the uh with the content creators but looking at a user base
let's say like a year from now let's say some of these users are now generating you know their keys
are probably going to be worth like ten thousand dollars like is there a way for a like it now limits
your community's growth you don't want to make it to where there's a model that limits growth um so they
could implement models of like making it to where it's going to be certain you know cut off at certain prices
like like membership portions and everything but like some of these keys they're worth like
thousands of dollars it's like i'm not going to purchase that thing i'd rather just go on to
twitter and see if they're on other social media platforms now of course there's going to be
exclusive alphas or things like that in order for them to push up to a thousand dollars right like
if a user goes in and doesn't get the immediate attention or kind of like the the information that's
going to be worth a thousand dollars i'm just going to sell the key but if you paid for uh like
let's say a membership and there's a no refund model you're kind of screwed so it's kind of like
the only fan model same thing is like some of the content that you see on there isn't going to be like
like you pay for something let's say there's a there's a there's a marketer on there that i kind
of follow i don't know why he uses only fans i'm pretty sure he'd be better off with patreon but
basically for him his model is basically like he gives really really good marketing alpha i'll pay
like i'm glad to pay 100 bucks 200 bucks a month to just listen in and see some of the content
strategies but if it starts going up to like a thousand dollars and i'm like hey your content is
probably going to be delivered and you know the value of it is probably going to be worth 100 bucks
i'm not going to pay that i'm not i'm not going to pay that portion so friend tech so friend tech
does have a scaling issue whenever it comes to the content delivery one application that tried to fix
this was tomo tomo made it to where you can also you can do um what was it called i believe they
called it votes so basically if the content creator is not on the platform you can already purchase
votes in order to turn into keys later on once the content creator comes onto the platform so basically
sometimes you'll come on and you'll actually see hey look i already have 50 bucks from my community
already trading my my votes in the beginning so it gives them an early incentive but also same thing
for that one it doesn't have the scalability factor because once keys get really really expensive
you then limit your user growth so i think with republic um depending on how they release their new
features right the the features for like how the token gating is going to be how the exclusive content is
going to be and stuff like that those areas are going to basically make or break um if they're going
to be a competitor especially because like instagram is now able to you know instagram has the reach
the discoverability portion and that's like the biggest thing is like why do people say uh you
know there's like multiple streaming platforms that you can go on besides youtube but why do people
stick to youtube it's because youtube has discoverability yes maybe the revenue flow may
be a little bit less but they also have the user base as well so like the company also has to market
their brand uh to consumers in different categories and try to find a niche category and really really
study their users and see hey look maybe uh i think republic has a really big dance community right
so for them incentivizing uh uh incentivizing that category is a growth factor but you also
have to look at sub factors of okay what do also um what is associated with people that like to dance
maybe they like to listen to music all right cool now i look look at the music category all right music
category then you break it down to like sub genres and everything so it's it's slowly building these groups
um once again it's it's still super early for republic i think friend tech is uh i mean they had a
really good launch but i'm i'm not going to be able to i'm not going to use them ever again
um stars arena i'm probably not going to use them just because they got hacked it is a bad sigma and
everything tomo i already got off of that portion too as well so for social fight social social fight
apps really neat like they're they're facing giants so it is a very very big uphill battle for them
and i guess i would be comparing apples to oranges to saying uh it would be comparing apples to
oranges if i was to say that web 3 games are also facing giants not really so the the web 3 giant so
like if you make a web 3 game that has all of the elements of a web 2 without the complexity for the
user you're basically a web 2 game right like no one's going to understand the difference between a
web 2 and a web 3 the the only difference that they're competing against is going to be like
gaming studios and everything right but there's also different genres that you can also target
so like you don't have to go into a really really competitive fps or really uh build out a really
really expansive mmo strategy uh mmo game you know you can go side scrollers mobile is actually
dominating a lot of the areas as well what was a really good um really good use case for for for
for web 3 games that allows for uh basically the the traditional kind of like the traditional gaming
crowd to also get discoverability onto your game without you know forcing down hey look you have
to have a metamask you have to have this you have to have that uh you have to mint every single thing
you know it doesn't factor that in for them
doug do you think that um despite everything that michael said i agree with most of what he was
highlighting i do but i think that sofi is going to have a much harder time much steeper uphill battle
um than game five but do you think that social five will still be something that is broadly speculated
on as a as a bull market narrative well there's like a definitely a big correlation between gaming
and sofi because they're both gamified things right like um the problem is that you hit paywalls
all these sofi apps and um let me just give an update to a couple of things that michael said
because there's actually a bunch of sofi stuff that does allow you to buy keys ahead of time i
believe new book bitcoin city does also the avax hack they got the most of the money back from
the hacker i don't believe that avax covered them i know there's a lot of converge controversy around
that but like and they did take out a tiny loan so they cover everybody and there's a they
changed teams like five times right there's so much controversy and the problem that happens is that
uh um getting users and retaining users is really hard and if we compare sofi to gaming which i think
we should like getting new users and retaining users it's all about having something they want
to do and having very low cost of entry when you hit paywalls it causes a problem like champions arena
was this huge amazing you know uh game web 3 game on mobile that just went crazy they had like you know
100 000 downloads in the first week or something right everybody was playing it it seemed like
but then they hit a paywall where it was pay to earn and you started to having to invest heavily to
get anywhere and like the activity and the daily active users just dropped like crazy and i think
we see that same thing happening with sofi where you get to the point where it's so saturated where
you're like oh all the impressive exciting people are so expensive the only people that can afford to
buy them are other whales so then you just have whales trying to tell everybody to do stuff and then
do stuff and then people kind of get a little bit disinterested and they're not sure exactly what
to do and it takes a lot of energy and a lot of work in those markets to keep people interested like
with new bitcoin city where you have like fun games and tickets and raffles constantly it's like a full
time job running these things right and when you hit these paywalls it's so hard and then what is
the question is what is the actual utility you get out of it so michael you gave a great example of
how there's certain things that you actually find valuable that you'll pay for but if it's going if
it keeps going up to where it's like you know a thousand dollars to buy a key it's not worth it for
you because think about that like if you're in a sofi app and you want to buy someone's key and say
it's like 200 like usd right maybe not the biggest deal but if you're there to be active and invested
and be in many different like communities and people that adds up really freaking fast right so who's
really going to be in there doing that other than whales and then what happens is the whales then
start to sell their keys because they want to make a profit and then people fud them so there's this
definite cycle of issues that come up and it's real i think sofi is a really cool thing but it's so hard
and you have to look at gaming for answers so i'm gonna i'm gonna push back then um i think that what
both you and michael are speaking about which which does hold water and i agree with is when the
social five platforms are trying to to actually compete with other social social media platforms
in that regard i completely agree it's you're fighting the biggest giants in the world uh and
you're not going to succeed the only person who's going to monetize x is going to be elon musk
the difference is and where i think uh the winners will will rise from and i think friend tech uh is the
perfect example is it's not trying to do too much it's not trying to become its own social fight like
social media platform it really is an add-on uh and and that's how i think it'll survive and i think
it'll thrive as as an add-on to existing social media platforms and i think other platforms right
stars arena is trying to be a a replacement it's not going to work new bitcoin city doing too much in my
opinion i think most of these will survive but they'll scale back to basically plugins and add-ons
to your twitters to your tick tocks and they'll find interesting ways to incentivize and monetize and
reward uh the surviving ecosystems that will live and thrive um so that's my prediction and i think within
that sphere uh i my personal belief and my thesis is that these become uh the foundations for global
reputational networks so i'm looking at as an all of social five as kind of like a uh a digital
identity l1 and i think that's where the ecosystem will go in terms of uh trust as ai becomes more
prevalent as as uh elections come up that that's where i think social five will will flourish as the
foundational layer for uh global reputational and quasi or semi um anonymous ecosystems i think i could
be wrong that that's a really good interesting point because i think that you're agreeing with
me and disagreeing at the same time because we have this situation where um that's a really good
point and it's a really strong point but also the problem is that with social five there's such a big
incentive for them to make an income off of it that they're gonna people keep on moving to new
platforms and now there's like 25 social fi apps and it gets so spread out so like who's going to
actually have a utility or something worth all that's going to get into the eyes all the apis are open
source so i'm not looking for one winner or the other winner can get an entire data set so right
which we'll see what is getting this theory and generating data that i think is going to be the
uh the the threshold layer for mutational networks so yes we're agreeing it's my business
you guys also have to look at the the the marketing narrative of the most expensive thing in the
internet right now is users retention so the platform that actually has the the growth and user retention
strategy that actually matches their clientele and kind of like their demographic and is actually able to
you know keep them on the platform is going to be the one that's going to be dominating right
because like if you're on like for example you're on tick tock for a good few hours sometimes just
scrolling advertisers love it because they know that and understand that hey look my ad is actually
going to be placed and shown compared to uh if i place it on like a smaller platform so there's more
revenue that's going to be flowing into these companies which then again they should place back into
their uh you know their creator pools or kind of like other campaigns to get more general awareness
and everything so i think that for for social files like these they are in terms of like fighting against
like facebook and kind of like these big uh you know media giants they're definitely going to be losing
in the beginning but if there is an incentive and a narrative and the way that they execute it if it's going
to be better for the user experience you'll start seeing um companies and and brands start shifting
towards that especially if they know that it's going to be a more beneficial thing like why do people
use twitter for crypto twitter like how how do we get that trend it's because twitter was
to be able to uh you know effectively build a community on here
so like crypto is really prevalent on twitter i i i agree michael so what i think if we're if we're
distilling it down the average user so tick tock is the most uh used app uh it has an average daily
uh consumption of i believe 43 minutes um the second by the way ironically is is actually a web 3 game
called uh um i can't remember the name i've mentioned it before it's huge in the philippines
um so i what what i think is i think socialfy succeeds not on trying to compete to be the 30 to 40
minutes a day uh product i think it's the three to four minutes a day where you check in and it's kind
of like it's almost like your social media uh like repo you go and check in how how you're monetizing
things in more digestible consumable pieces i don't think it's the thing that you go and try
to usurp your your your airtime from existing social media platforms so again i think we're
agreeing i just kind of trying to clarify got a lot of hands up um scott but before i pass up to scott
because we are we are almost at the top of the hour here again i want to i want to iterate wag me
games is a sponsor of today's space um i love what they've been building over the last year and
a half that i've known scott and ian i am a genesis nft holder so full disclosure on that end and and
scott the mic is yours thank you so much no it's been such a pleasure here i love joining spaces i
always learn so much i meet so many new people uh lots of different narratives here lots of great
discussions so guys first off thank you so much for all the all the great discussion today um i did pin
our founders packs to the top here if anybody's looking to get into wag me we are a free to play
game but obviously if you have a founders pack 3000 on openc i think we're about 60 minted right now
you know that's how you flex that you're the og you get the founders cards uh but one thing i one
thing i wanted to say actually i watched a really interesting video yesterday and kind of bringing back
the narrative to gaming here and talking about implementing ecosystems i think we have a huge
advantage in web 3 it's a it's like a double-edged sword being so involved with your community because
one side of things you have your ear to the ground right and you can hear all the needs and wants of
your community to try to build best uh then the other side of that is you know you're also very uh
visible and transparent and the community you know isn't necessarily going to understand
business side of things and they might get upset or frustrated if you're not moving at the pace
that maybe they expect you to right but i think that the positives vastly outweigh the negatives when
it comes to being in touch with your community and the example i want to give is diablo 4 i had no idea
that their use their daily active users dropped like 99.5 and this isn't even a guesstimation like
it's i i thought it was absolutely insane because like my neighbor plays diablo all my friends play diablo
and when it first came out that's all they talked about i saw videos everywhere about it um but then as
i watched this video and i started to learn that they were basically doing all the things that if they
just came to a twitter space like this they probably wouldn't do and of course you know
a lot of it has to do with pay for power a lot of that has to do with you know creating these dlc packs
that you have to pay for them in order to have the best characters uh there were characters that came
out i think it was the the paladin where basically did like zero damage and they didn't want to take
the time to go in and rebalance their characters because it would take too much time uh it just didn't
listen and blizzard obviously over the last few years has been going kind of downhill with like
all these legal lawsuits and things like that but again right if they actually if these gaming studios
paid attention to what the gamers wanted they wouldn't be running into these brick walls all the time
and it's like what what business doesn't listen to their customers right you have to listen to your
customers they're the ones buying your stuff you don't have to listen to all their ideas but
you know it's good to kind of jump in sometimes and see what's going on it's really easy to get
stuck behind closed doors where everybody's yesing you to death to every every idea you might have
but anyways i just thought it was interesting because i had no idea that diablo 4 dropped 99.5
like that's that's unheard of not surprising and it's so ironic that blizzard games blizzard
cannot build games that retains players because they have the formula to build games to retain
players so many of the og blizzard games still have such thriving and vibrant communities and for
whatever reason whether it's retail wow expansions whether it's diablo 3 or diablo 4 they just can't
seem to build a game that players want to stick around long enough um you know long enough for
one or two years uh michael yeah diablo 3 was the one that kind of pissed me off because
i was actually making money in that game and all of a sudden they started up basically doing uh they
stopped the transfers of all the assets and everything so basically i want to know the games
you didn't make money on michael that's what i want to know is there is that a short list of games
that you couldn't make money on i love it i mean like so like so okay so i'm gonna dive into this
and it might be a little bit of a a balance between like the developers as well but if you
make a game and there's no user incentive but it is really really fun what's going to happen is that
it's going to create a black economy so as demand for that game increases with user base there is
going to be black economies that are going to be like the black markets basically like for me
selling accounts power leveling services selling items that are going to be you know similar to like
otc transfers um selling in-game currencies and everything and you know there is going to be
services that are going to be revolved around that that they cannot control that's probably out of
their terms of service now if they start enabling that type of features and saying hey look we're
we're going to be okay with this what's going to happen is that you say yes to everything and it's
going to create a stagflation of growth because basically what's going to happen is that the the early
iteration of how the game kind of formed was between you and your team you guys created a an
amazing combo but once the community kind of gets uh gets involved into it it starts splitting off and
going like a million different directions right and you're not now going back to something that
the team holds dearly to because like the team then starts losing retention of uh of commitment and
saying hey look i this is not the way that i wanted to envision this game and it's going to a path where
i don't like it so like there's two examples in marketing and crypto marketing right now that i
think i can kind of like share one is uh ftx so my friend was the uh basically the marketing advisor
for ftx before you know all this trial stuff happened and another one of my friends was actually on the
binance side so you just called trial stuff so you just called the trial trial stuff okay sorry okay
just making sure they're correct but uh but like basically for for ftx their strategy was complete
opposite of what binance was going to do their strategy was more whatever the user decides to
want to list and whatever's hot we'll kind of place it on there and they start they tried to listen to
the users as much as possible so you start seeing a lot of these coins kind of come on and and be a part
of uh ftx while binance would take a smaller approach like even coinbase too would take a slower approach
but in the end kind of like what happened was uh you know there is two there's there's both models
right you could be the the community pleaser right and please the much as much of the community as
possible but in the end it's never going to be enough it's kind of like an asian parent like my
mom's never fully happy of me and i'm like okay cool like what more can i do even if i save the world
she's not gonna be happy but the other portion of it is also you know being stern and saying hey look
this is the product that i wanted to deliver to you and this is the experience i want you to have
with the game it's because this is my joy and my passion i do not want to create something that
feels incomplete um so like user i mean user feedback is always going to be uh recommended
like you definitely should ask your community because your community is going to give you alpha
of like what's happening what's going on if there's exploits if there's going to be um you know hype
around it if there's ways to to work with content creators that are definitely going to be boosting
your views on twitch and the other side is basically making it to where hey blizzard is
like we do not want people to do this do that do that but they do have a user growth user-based growth
and there is a type of user that they're trying to push for and in marketing it's kind of a pushing
for your your perfect your perfect customer right you have a male demographic and a female demographic
of who you think your perfect user is going to be and you're trying to market towards that uh
towards that area if you do it in the beginning that's perfect because then you'll attract your
perfect your your clientele that you want to be attracted to but if you already implement some of
these features and then take them away it once again it's like you're now redoing user acquisition
and then after that redoing user retention as well so you're double you're basically quadruple spending
in order to get back to where you know it's going to be your perfect type of little game
but it's because you didn't listen to the community or kind of like made um you know made features that
you then you then went ahead and took away
jayman yeah i was kind of hoping i was uh gonna go before michael because i think we kind of went
off into the gaming side but going into the social side and and to answer um doc i did uh i did look
uh for the at least the top 10 all the way to shima capital and i found two metaverses out of
the 80 investments um out of there just want to let you know that i did that for you um but
that doesn't mean it's not bullish because there's still a lot of other bcs just because they're not
in the top 10 they're still putting 20 50 million dollars into metaverse and um and gaming so you know
i'm i'm still a gaming fan but um on the social side social media side a6 a16z just putting 54 mil to
story verse and 16 mil to iyk did that close i didn't know yeah yeah yeah yeah they closed a
while back yeah okay yeah i only look back to uh to uh july august september um but maybe maybe
further back probably probably some more stats but um going back to the social side uh so michael
mentioned some og websites right specifically twitter right you can't obviously compare to twitter
right because they had a leg up on the formula that you know i i kind of i saw this in obviously with
when i went through marketing stuff and you know school and all stuff but um in the news world what
what do they they say that sells sex and misery right what is twitter sex and misery right for
the most part right i mean all of us here we all interact and we're using it for business a little
a little bit different than the majority of the public that uses this platform to cancel each other
out and or to complain about something because it you know misery sells better than pretty much
anything besides sex and sex is what's more what sex are you doing on twitter not not so much like
that same thing i'm like what genre no no hold on hold on let me go back and explain it's the genre
of sex whether it be the desire of being a fan of your favorite high-end celebrity right or the fact
that that you know twitter is very lack on their policy of pornography or whatever it is so sex and
misery i mean everyone can hear agreed that that's the way new cells are things right so in their
world it's ratings in websites or apps what is it traffic and engagement right with apps it's how long
can you keep the person on the screen right screen time is is is the way i'm sorry jay what's what's
what sex are you doing on twitter i i guess you didn't listen to the to what i was saying before
because i said all of us here are what using it for business and growing ourselves i did say that
maybe kind of interrupted me while i was saying that but um but before that um i was talking about
the general public right because it just because crypto twitter and us we don't maybe some of you
guys do down there whatever it is don't participate in that in that style of culture right the general
public and the way it's you know it's done i mean you can use the common kind of deductive reasoning
and logic since that's the greatest thing that sells this platform is growing like crazy right
what is instagram instagram is a way to superficial show yourself in in the the greatest light and hence
that genre of sex not so much you're actually performing the act please stop taking a literal or
trying to twist that but it's it's the genre of sex right which is the illusion of desire and and and
want or or or the superficial side of things so that you know that that those two formulas is
basically what kind of trumps pretty much anything except for facebook they have the marketplace going
on which is the largest e-commerce site in the entire global world so they're still you know they're
still beating everybody in that notion but as far as all the others smaller side you're looking at
some kind of misery right or some kind of desire so you know and i mean argue with me or not on that
i mean it's it's you know tall tale proven stats of in in in in that type of world but yeah i just
wanted to bring that up but sorry yeah i genuinely wasn't arguing with you i literally had like i was
trying to envision what people are doing with regards to sex on twitter oh okay okay i couldn't
come up with an answer like i know what doc's doing or no answer that question for us no no i'm just
playing let me stop no it's you know twitter twitter has been known to have a very lax policy
on its you know pornographic content and you know only fans creators all that good stuff blah blah blah
blah blah whatever so that is driving obviously a lot of market to twitter as far as whoever's in
that market right whatever whether it be the general and i'm talking about general public not all us
business folks that are in here please don't get offended by this or if you're in that lifestyle
don't get offended by this i was just pointing out kind of general statistics so
no i will agree i've been getting i'd like to actually ask the the panel has everybody else
been getting more follows from like random only fans people like when you click on their page you're
like nope didn't want to see that and go back no but i'm not as handsome as you are so you got to
take that into consideration i'm actually in doc's only fans it's pretty great you should sign up for it
whoa wait a minute doc oh lord it's all about practice man it's good utility bro
so there's a there's a way to oh there's a way to not get a lot of spam bots to to kind of like
be a part of your network just don't post like that's what i do like i i i'm the type of person that's
like if you know me you know me um i have a little like i only have like 4 000 followers and everything
but the alpha that i usually give and in terms of like who who actually follows me and everything
like there is some content creators that are like millions and millions of followers and everything
that follow me i don't mean it's like showboot or anything but it's like i want to be able to connect
on social media platforms with the ones that i really want to connect with i i don't i do not
want to have it to where it's like hey i have a hundred million you know a hundred thousand
followers and everything and it's hard for me to actually go through my messages because then it's
going to be like uh i'd rather just start pushing messages over to like telegram or kind of like
uh whatsapp and everything to kind of like make sure that i'm not getting over congested
it's like i don't i don't want to be able to receive a thousand messages from a lot of strangers i
rather receive the messages that i want from the people that i i do care about and want to stay
connected with you know it doesn't really get as bad as you think um like it gets to a point
well i was going to say when you have a lot of followers i mean take it from somebody with three
million on youtube it gets to a point where people just kind of assume they can't reach you so they
don't reach out so it doesn't really get as bad as you think michael honestly like you might have
some time but there's a big influx but i mean a lot of the times and i always preach keep your dms open
because i do um i get a lot of great networking and a little a lot of great relationship building
just from going through dm so i just just wanted to say that so you don't close that door completely
no no totally so like when i was working with like uh polygon and uh managing their twitter and
everything it was just it's like 400 messages a day type of thing and i'm like i i can't even
differentiate um so i would just have to switch them over to other platforms like email or stuff
like that to to make sure i'm able to connect with them and like even even till now like sandeep's uh
inbox is literally blown up like every single time just because like the ecosystem has grown so much
and there's a lot of companies building on polygon but like even for that it's like it's hard for me
to reach him now too he'll like hey look sorry i have a thousand telegram messages and everything
and like he'll reply to me in like a week so it's like i i don't want to get to that
here's on the response on twitter pretty quickly which is ironic
yeah yeah but like for telegram and some of the other areas because like telegram is where we have
most of our groups for like internals and everything but uh yeah i i don't know i guess it's just my
stigma of like staying back behind it behind the shadows and if you know me you know me type of deal
compared to hey i'm going to be able to showboat and say hey look i have all these followers and
everything so other michael i'm fairly sure we took for me i don't think we took a business call a while
back go ahead doc
now i was going to say to mike that uh michael excuse me that uh you know with changes here in twitter
uh you can restrict your dms of course to blue check followers you can also set up a circle which
would be only people a messaging group that will only be people that you add and as far as messages
beyond that you you are segmented between blue checks and and the bots which are typically unchecked
so you you can screen those dms down to a usable
no matter what the next
holy crap i just checked the i just looked at the box that says message requests
it's like 800 and oh hell no i'm not gonna look through all that uh so if you message me and i
didn't see it sorry i'll start clearing through some of this i just noticed the message request portion
and it's all it's all like hidden messages and everything but you're gonna say
you're gonna see mike you're gonna go down a rabbit hole there you're gonna see a lot of
oh i lost my uh my dog now i need some meat to put to to get him back oh it's fantastic dude
i i have a saying in the military it's uh basically if you give me a cold like a sad story i'm just
gonna say sucks to suck because it's not my problem
yeah lots of hello sirs do you need promo or hello sir do you need kyc finance account a lot of
sirs the more sirs i see the the less likely i am to read the message but i digress i wanted to
i wanted to talk about real world real real real world assets and what the implementation of those
might look like how you could potentially take advantage of real world assets we could talk about
it now but i think it might be better to have a separate space for it i don't know we've been going
for two hours and we've certainly gone longer here's the here's the here's the best thing noah
you're selling your house as an nft and you accidentally click a link and lose your house
yeah i mean i think i think it means the infrastructure needs to mature more and there
need to be certain safeguards in place but i do i do think that a real world asset implementation
is going to happen and it's one of those things where i scratch my head i wonder well if jp morgan
for example wants to bring assets on chain then they'll probably use their own private blockchain
same with fidelity uh why would they even use um why would they even use a public ledger so
uh given that i think w w r god i'm dyslexic rwa's called just call them digital okay
given that i think digital's will uh will be massively adopted at some point i would love to
know how to get ahead of the curve and front run that retail um investor interest and and buy into
infrastructure that they will be implemented on but i think it might be a little too soon and too
difficult uh to to forecast what do you think michael there's a uh company called courtyard uh that
has been courtyard.io but on twitter we've had them on for uh for an ama i love what they're doing
yeah yeah yeah so basically for them if you guys don't know they found a way to tokenize pokemon cards
so what do you mean what do you what do you mean they found a way so so like okay so the security
and the security and redeemability of real-world assets is the biggest issue right having it to
where you're going to be able to redeem the asset in case if uh you know the user wants to hold on to
yeah yeah so they place it in a vault and uh also the data system where you can uh ship your pokemon
card is going to be graded and they'll then mint it on the blockchain it does take a little bit of
a delay and stuff just respectfully respectfully you said somebody figured out how to tokenize
pokemon cards um i'm pretty sure they have they have an address where people send in the pokemon cards
they take 45 plus pictures it's called stitching they stitch together a digital version of the pokemon
card which is required to be graded by a third party uh they vaulted and allow for liquidity so
i like what they're doing but to imply that they're doing anything novel uh i've been dealing with
vaulting physical goods for about five to six years now so what i think the important part
the important parts let me finish the important part to identify what court are doing right and
where i think the market's going in terms of rwas as as do all emerging markets is small that's niche and
curated so they are the place you go for pre-graded uh liquid liquid liquidity on pre-graded pokemon
cards and i think you'll see a bunch of those in terms of niche solutions because vaulting is a niche
solution and niche products correlated to those niche solutions yeah i was gonna go to the niche
portion because like real world assets has basically anything that you own literally anything in your house
could be a real world asset that's could be placed onto the blockchain the uh the only thing is like
no one wants your your own shoes right so that's that's going to be something of a of a different
category but i think that the demand if there's going to be demand uh for specific goods like you're
looking at like fashion is going to be a really really good one for uh real world assets as well they
have the uh the the digital representation of the owner for the ownership of the physical items as well
you're going to start seeing e-commerce integrate it um if especially if they're going to be doing
authentication portions like luxury brands gucci prada they're already looking into creating a
bit kind of like fidgetal a portion of it where there's a fidget there's a physical and a digital
version of it but what did you say i couldn't hear i i couldn't hear you just four more times
so it was loud on my end i think i heard you say something but i wasn't sure yeah so basically a lot of like
luxury brands are looking at how do they create a fidget digital version basically a physical and
i was just making sure i heard you correctly cool yeah yeah yeah so yeah i think real world assets
do have a very big category because then the the hard ones to actually penetrate is going to be the
regulated entity ones so for example if you're looking at real estate cars uh anything that has to
deal with like medication um things that are going to be restricted basically what i'll put under a
restricted category is going to be the harder ones to penetrate as a market for rwas but the ones that do
the ones that are able to get the the qualifications and the certifications and stuff like that
in order to incorporate it will have a pretty large scaling factor like if you look at
uh zillow and kind of like uh what was it zillow redfin and a few other marketplaces for houses
if you're if you are able to have it to where the housing provider is going to be
settling uh an estate basically is settling an escrow through an nft contract you then eliminate
the 10-day wait and you effectively make it like one or two you are definitely going to be every
realtor's best friend across you know the entire world just because everyone hates the escrow the escrow
process that's going to be happening with it but but i think nova said it earlier was like jp morgan and
them they they still want to create the process to where they are going to be holding that information
privately right to to make it to where it's more private data for them to be able to control
because once again they're able to create derivatives off of this as well
um while a contract is an escrow the company could place up additional uh collateral to then lend out
that escrow then i have a yield what if what what if what if what this is completely i'm gonna point
out three real quick things um because you stepped into the lion's head um if my name wasn't obvious
uh what if title is held an irrevocable trust an irrevocable living trust and the beneficiary is the nft
so i was actually trying to create this uh basically decentralized trust structure but i
i lost you michael i think you i think you rugged uh okay so michael i already did it um i'll
point out two funny things uh a previous company doing fidgetals we approached lvmh and we're like you
should have all your your bags and your stuff on on chain turns out they already had a private uh
chain for about eight years and they liked counterfeits and helped build their brand we
also spoke with the one of the largest chemical manufacturers pharmaceutical manufacturers in the
world we got we were going to on chain confirm and prove the active ingredients um we got to the ceo
and then they stopped talking to us uh five weeks later uh it became public knowledge and they were
putting in five percent of the active ingredient that they said they were so uh blockchain is for
an ethical world and ethical world we do not live in
i just added you back michael go ahead no
oh no i was gonna say that i think michael is still
queued to come up but he's he's now up sorry i got rugged uh what was the what was the question
earlier sorry i got disconnected oh so i've already put title of a property uh as an nft uh as the
beneficiary of an irrevocable living trust so even when the transfer sales no transfer actually needs
there is no escrow whoever holds the nft at any given time is the owner of the property
um that was one the second thing i said was lvmh has had its own private uh chain and has had
chips nfc chips in their bags for about eight years now uh and third was uh with a previous
company we approached a chemical manufacturer a pharmaceutical manufacturer who we spent about
five months or something like that talking to them then we got to the ceo he ghosted us and about
five weeks later gave public knowledge that they were putting in five percent of the active
ingredient they said they were so i i fortunately or unfortunately blockchain is ready for an honest
world but the world is not wanting blockchain to be honest yeah because like if you look at these slow
systems they're slow for a reason right like if you're placing it uh are you placing the title so
you're placing the title of the actual uh house onto an nft but are you verifying it with the municipal
kind of like the the municipal district the original filing of ownership of the property
upon initial uh acquisition of transfer the title holder was an nft it was the address the for the nft
that gets placed into the written irrevocable living trust and the beneficiary is the contract
address for the nft it doesn't make a difference who owns the nft at any given time the owner of the
nft can redeem the product the the property uh by virtue of them owning the nft so it doesn't even
necessarily need now you need to pay your taxes of course that that's a legal requirement separate
from the functionality but technically speaking title never changes just just the holder of the nft at
any given time so if there's a pour over will or a flow over trust uh it all gets resolved by the same
uh instrument yeah no i was i was trying to create decentralized trust uh as a previous company and
it uh it didn't work out but like going into those structures and kind of like seeing uh because i was
going to add a real estate play into it and looking at the title portion then finding out about
municipals and kind of like the true domain ownership is basically uh the the true domain ownership is
basically based off of the the county that you're in and everything like that makes it a little bit more
complicated but i think these systems are slow for a reason they're slow because they have multiple
middlemen that are able to control the process and of course they make it to where each industry is able
to be uh basically able to flourish with it because if not you could be created you're basically you're
eliminating a lot of the middlemen that run the the current systems right so like for example like even
looking at like bankers or looking at kind of like the the defi side right as well you're eliminating the
middleman so i think that each industry that gets targeted by blockchain technology is going to
go through a wave that uh whether it's regulation whether it's going to be create you know breaking
away from the legacy systems it does it does take time but the ones that do and are able to penetrate
it effectively and work and be able to work with legacy systems and also blockchain systems are probably
the ones that are going to scale faster just because they they don't have too much you know too much red
tape of being on one side too much or being on the other side too much um they're kind of like right
in the middle to be able to integrate that so the bridge basically is going to be the most most important
can i ask go ahead let me get this thought out real quick before and then i'll go to your book
um my thought process or kind of answer to you michael is that i'm taking the don't ask for permission
beg for forgiveness approach right because at the end of the day i know the governments just want
their taxes right and that if they do uh uh a dive in they'll see that that title was was properly
uh traced and transferred and then the only question then is were all the fees properly paid
but i i'm taking the approach of doing it functionally and then right this will only become an
issue once that property is either inherited if there's a dispute other than that those who are
or are living in it and are the purported owners won't have conflict because they hold the nft so
there's not going to be any disputes to resolve the only time a dispute is going to be needed to resolve
is when uh most likely there's a death in the past uh or a liquidation of the trust itself at that point
there will just be an on-chain proof of the title the asset and the trust that that's how i'm approaching
it i don't think any of this will get approved but i don't think on the back end what what what
what issues will you deal with like what fine i don't think there's any real fines i don't think
there's any real issues on the on that end for for the issue side especially when it comes to real
estate each kind of state has their own independent uh policies like for example like you're looking at
let's say for example you have that house even though you are the the true beneficiary owner of it
there is tenants that are living in it that pays back to the trust right and the tenants then say
hey look in california they're just gonna be squatters um and you after a certain amount of
time or if there's like any type of like liens on the house uh due to like taxes and everything
other other people could be able to purchase it if there is going to be a question about the uh the
transfer what will happen is that they will dive into the paperwork and say this is probably not an
entity that is going to be registered with them so that it's unable to be transferred over so for
example like if you are transferring an asset and placing it um over to like let's say i have
family in vietnam and i say hey when i pass away i want them to be able to own this house what happens
is that they're not in the system uh basically they're not in the system and also the jurisdiction
that can be enforced so for them they would have to come over a claim or find a way to to to basically
work through the uh the legal system i disagree claim from who i do real estate in real life that's
that's my bread and butter um i'm also an attorney i'm a real estate attorney yeah so like
let's say for example a and the house goes into a lien and the beneficiary still has to be able to
you know go over and kind of claim it but the beneficiary is in a u.s citizen um it isn't considered
a person and within some of the contracts depending on how you do also how you create your trust as well
trust can be very very uh beneficial for a lot of people and it could be also very sometimes trust
can also be dissolved because of the fact that the bylaws aren't properly written and everything as
well um and some of the some of the statements contradict itself like there's no uh consideration
or there's no beneficiary that's gonna be properly uh recorded um yeah there's a whole bunch
of things so fyi if anyone's listening and they want to create trust go to a trust lawyer and make
sure you do it properly because the hardest thing to do is to to revert it when you don't understand
the verbiage of it and it's like a 50 page document and you're just like bro i know it's english but i
don't understand this english
duck yeah no just in terms of uh uh title and recording processes and the league is the legacy
process you know efficiency isn't going to drive a change in in this particular market in my
opinion i mean to find tight and it isn't just state by state it's local governments and versus
local governments and along with the title and recording you have all sorts of of tax laws property
tax laws it it is so enmeshed in the current system that um you know it's it's really not even
in web 2 in a lot of ways you know you have to you have to in here in la to to get title documents
most times you have to go down access the computers in their office get the right file and carry it to
a window ask for a copy of that file and you get it mailed to you within 10 days or a month so i mean
i don't know what's going to drive the change um from from from that sort of system into a web 3 trusted
system uh i'd love to see it happen but i don't think efficiency is the thing that's going to be
the driving force to reiterate if the nft is the beneficiary then he who holds the nft at any given
time is the beneficiary so again the my point i guess both to michael and to talk is those issues get
resolved when it's an issue and then the question becomes who would be disputing a lien is a good
point right but a lien would require an adjudication as well as uh a name defendant otherwise you'd have
to prove some sort of proof of service uh easily appealable but the reality is what i'm saying
majority of the time these will resolve themselves the majority of the time the name defendant would be
the state because usually like the the true ownership of every property in the united states
is for their municipal so that's why i asked you earlier it's like it's been this you will also
record it into this as well because for them it's like if they're not getting taxed on if they're not
getting home taxes they'll place a lien they'll try to find a way to kind of like place into wholesale
um place it into you know these other categories so that they can actually make it to where is it
asset generating no i i agree i agree michael but if you're paying your taxes that's why i was very
clear you still owe your taxes if you're paying your taxes and following the regulatory steps
when does a dispute arise outside of of a death or disposition uh and and i think that the those
the minutiae will be resolved at that point because it's not really absent a municipal municipality uh an
inherent uh um claimant essentially
yeah i i totally agree with you with there like so this is just one example on real world assets in
terms of like how real estate is going to be partial of it but also looking at uh delivery basically like
how i was saying in the beginning delivery and also um storage of the assets are going to be the biggest
biggest biggest portion of it because the majority of it is let's say for example you're trying to buy a
car right you're looking through carvana carvana already sources and basically has the storage and
deliverability of the cars same thing for like tesla and some of the manufacturers um but if you're
looking at buying a representation and then accepting delivery and being able to say hey look i'm converting
this nft burning it and being able to claim the physical asset of it is where companies would actually
be able to really scale if they're able to have that delivery um become you know a lot more efficient
like you think about it this way if i was going to buy a house and i know i was going to be able
to afford it whether it's getting a loan or being able to qualify for it and stuff if i can skip the
escrow process that's a like a week process or you know it's a one week process or pay on the blockchain
for this company maybe they take a little bit more of a fee but i can get it at a more effective time
it now allows people that are going to in you know going into real estate that really really need to
deploy capital pretty quickly and being able to flip homes or or whichever strategy that they're
trying to use it with with real estate to be able to be very you know be faster with their business
model you think about it this way if you're able to on chain on chain would be fantastic for 1031 right
for both what both sides right there's the there's uh the whatever it is six week i believe six week
uh identification period right which is really a look back which is done fraudulently all the time
and then there's your 90 day or 180 day window uh which would all benefit from being on chain
interesting i hadn't thought about that yeah because you look into like evergrande um from china like
they're they're they're about to offload i mean like thousands of properties right so for for example
if you're able to offload it at a more quicker and effective rate i mean it could it could save a
company from bankruptcy or it could also be able to batch you know multiple deals together as well
um but basically it's like the delay anytime that there's a delay in any system you're you're losing
in terms of the the cost value of the time right so the if the time is going to be a seven day delay
you're losing out on potentially seven days of profit if you're going to be able to wait for that window
um and vice versa same thing if you're doing a sale and you're waiting for that money to come in
same thing you're like you're that money could also lose you deals if you needed that money for
potential things that come up and there's also the litigal litigatory uh and tax issues of a look
back of in kind uh or like kind so interesting i think there's a lot of benefits actually with
regards to 1031s i'll fuck around that thank you
well i really enjoyed that exchange and i'm glad we got to cover all the topics okay man what's up
oh no i was hitting the uh the hundred percent my i had fat fingers so it slipped over buddy
no worries i'm glad we got to cover all the topics and i really appreciate everyone coming on it's
been a great it's been a great panel it's been a great space i want to give a special thanks to
our sponsor of today wag me games scott thank you for being here and uh thank you to my co-host
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