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Can China be stopped in Gaming? 🇨🇳🕹️
Recorded: July 9, 2025 Duration: 1:18:54Space Recording
Short Summary
The discussion centered around the growing influence of Chinese gaming companies, particularly Tencent, and their strategic partnerships and investments in the global gaming market. With Bitcoin reaching new heights and the emergence of innovative projects like Soulbound, the crypto landscape is witnessing significant growth and evolving trends.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. All right, all right, all right.
I was just getting the message out there.
I'm expecting Arcaders will come
Swarming in
We also have
Two other
Panelists
Great minds
Really refined speakers
That are set
To join us
To all
Who can hear me
Hear me clearly Big bigger x spaces are back
can i get some heart emojis in here
let's get some bigger love on the airwaves and let's just break the ice by asking our panelists what have you guys been up
to so let's briefly go around break the ice and also bring each other up to date with what's been
happening concerning you your project your personal life whatever you're comfortable spilling. Leto, let's kick it off with you, buddy.
Hey, how
are you doing? Big up, big up. How's
everyone doing here today? All's
going good right here on my side of Twitter. I hope
everything's going good with y'all.
Recently, I just do
some talk shows, whether it be
with Pandas and Friends,
a community show for Camp by Pandas,
or whether it be just my own uh show
where i just recently talked to someone at brave so that was pretty cool so that's what i've been
up to uh i love this part of twitter and i just vibe here thank you for having me up here big up
big a love to leto arcadas i'm sure that pfp familiar. He is a man that joins the server once in a while
to exchange a few warm words with us.
Thanks for the update.
Really, really interesting stuff you have going on with the pandas.
It's just that it happens to, I'm not sure if I should say,
early or late in my time zone.
Yeah, it's so unfortunate, man.
I wish it could be earlier for you.
But one day, I will pop us to join you.
I have a lot of stress that's keeping me awake at night.
So that particular night when stress is right on top,
I'll just come hang out with the lovely cute adorable pandas really cool that we
have pandas in the house because we're gonna be talking about china before we get there
soulbound let us know what have you been up to biggest spaces are back
biggest spaces are back baby yeah no i'm excited bro i saw this on Excohost, and I'm like, I got to sign up.
I got to sign up.
Yeah, man, this is Marcello, Head of Spaces here at Soulbound.
We're doing a lot of different stuff.
If you guys don't know who we are, we are a Web3 streaming platform.
So we're really looking out for the little guys.
We're bringing a lot of different things that you won't see within traditional streaming platforms.
And, yeah, we got a lot of cool stuff.
We got our TGE coming up very soon.
So super excited.
And for myself, I'm doing a lot of different stuff.
I might be the new intern at ex-cohost.
So if you see me replying to your post, that might be me.
But, yeah, big shout-out to your post, that might be me. But yeah, big shout out to everybody here.
Happy to be here.
Ooh, my boy has been cooking.
I will tell you, Arcade is this.
I have stayed consistent in spaces.
I do not join a space without Soulbound being in that space.
And he's not just joining the spaces.
He's dropping alpha, contributing meaningfully.
And I'm hoping that will be the same case tonight.
In turn.
Okay, okay.
We have a first time user.
Fantico.
Have I pronounced that in a fun way
Fantico
it's all good Fantico
whatever you want it's all
good it's a pleasure being here with
you guys
our first time on Big
X spaces but hopefully not
the last one
first of all thank you for
having us here having me here second of all
I think we can all send some applause emojis for our big boy Bitcoin who just made the new
all-time high uh don't know if everybody is aware but we're sitting a bit over 111k.
So that's a great way to start the space.
So, yeah, happy to be here with you guys.
And let's dive into our topics.
Oh, I love that. I love that. And yes, Arcadas, it is the fun time. Fun Tickle has joined the fun. Where has Fun Tickle been when we've been having fun?
Oh, I love that. I love that.
buddy I did not know BTC is at all-time highs like my energy so thank you for
bringing us that really good news my friend hopefully I agree it won't be your
last time here okay Creon tell us what you've been up to then we'll get to the
other beautiful panelists and then we'll break the ice on this topic it's a really
good topic I believe Creon hey what's everybody hello mr. console yeah I've been you know busy
with life and training and yeah I can see that it actually BTZ actually crossed crossed 112 K. So yeah new all-time high
I'm happy about that and of course. I'm glad to be part of this panel. This is an interesting obvious
You know topic. So yeah, I'm happy to be here everybody
Happy to have you here my friend and yes
BTC being at an all time high is time for retail to actually buy. I do not know how the psychology of retail operates but right now I'm sure they're feeling so pressed to jump in on the action whilst you, my good friend Creonon have been in the action for a long long time
okay we are going to introduce a legend i invited this man personally he's been a really good friend
between when our spaces went off, when our soft launch launched,
and now, Chain Brain.
Give us a little update of what you've been,
and an introduction as well, because you're new here.
But tell us what you've been up to.
Happy to have you here, buddy.
Chain Brain.
Yo, what's up?
Mr. Consul, what a legend of a host you are, brother. Oh man, that speaking voice, that introduction, that energy, bro, I'm taking it back.
Our boy Marcello is here from Soulbound as well. Fantastic having both of my good friends up here. yeah you guys um i am a marketing lead at voxie tactic it's a turn-based rpg um it's a play to
earn game so a bunch of tokenomics and the tournaments and prize pools uh for that game
we were just running uh we're giving away 5 000 well it's a prize pool of 5 000 us dollars for a
two-week competition that we're running with voxie tactics i've been working a lot promoting that
alongside with my man marcello been doing our streams we're going to be streaming again on friday uh mr console brother it means a lot that
you invited me thank you so much and i'm excited to meet all the fantastic people here from the
biga community so i'm so excited to hear all your takes oh yeah for. And I gotta tell my community this. Today, I need a volunteer.
Because I was invited on that stream, we played Voxies, and I was embarrassed.
So, Arcadas, I need someone to, you know, I need some redemption of some degree.
Okay?
You know, I'll just hop in real quick
I got revenge for like
okay Marcelo beat me like 8 out of 10 games
but I still beat him twice
and the last game he competed in extreme
arena in Voxy Tactics and that's where all the
diehards of our community play
it wasn't pretty
Marcelo
that was a rough play brother
Mr. Carlson Marcelo and I would love to invite you, man.
Whenever you're available, please hop on the spaces.
We love having you there.
You know what?
I'm not going to come alone.
I am going to pick the finest from this beautiful army,
and I'm going to come accompanied.
Because I can tell you guys for free, I went on there and I couldn't see.
It was nothing but darkness.
Marcelo had his sword swinging, magic, double turns.
He hacked the game.
The guy quite literally hacked the game.
And, yeah, I'm coming back.
I'm coming back strong.
All right.
Let's get to Valenia.
I hope I've pronounced that right.
Because in our other spaces, the host was really struggling with the pronunciation.
Oh, I remember.
I remember the guy.
The guy struggling.
It's your boy Axelito behind the account.
And yeah, I'm on my way home so uh
not much to add on the moment i just wanted to be here with uh cool people and share some insights
and uh basically balen is building a fantasy world with different intertwined experience
to yeah to get the the players enjoy some cool stuff built on Solana. And yeah, we'll get to talk more on the road
as we build up our conversation.
But yeah, excited to be here now, guys.
Excited to have you here, my friend.
You've been very consistent on the spaces as well.
I hope Arcaders, you can recognize the voice.
It's a different profile, but it's a similar voice.
A voice that is always full of very, very wise words.
Can't wait for you to give us your takes on this topic.
Last but not least, before we actually start talking about
Can't China Be Stopped in Gaming?
We have ex-co-host live and direct.
Is there anyone behind the account?
Nah, bro.
That's just me.
I'm trying to get you guys more views in here.
Oh, I love that.
Thank you so much.
Let's get some hearts out.
Let's get some hearts out.
Let's follow ex-co-host.
They do us all a really really good solid
okay i think we've broken the ice we've all caught up on what we've been up to since we
stopped hosting we stopped hosting because we went soft launch on mainnet but that's a story for another day. Let's get to our topic today.
And that is, can China be stopped in gaming?
And so I want to start this space by asking, do you guys see China as a threat in gaming?
And what are your views on this?
Just to gauge your sentiments on this.
Lito, let's kick it off with you well
i want to go at this from the angle of that their games are not really constrained by the same
social morals or plagues that we are for example uh in the united states we have daei initiatives
or just uh like a lot of roar roaring about like're subjugating, you're making this woman look bad or you're making this group of people look bad.
There's a lot of social morals that we have to adhere to.
But in the East or just China, let's say, they can add all the jiggle physics they want.
the jizz all the jiggle physics they want they can do as much as they want to make their games uh
want to like playable for their target demographic so they don't really have
that holding them back the way that we do i like that you bring that to the topic because we're
gonna get into the demographics we're gonna talk about the developers
we're also gonna talk about their gamers and you've already somewhat started helping us
in digging into this great topic i love that i love as well the use of the word social morals
we're gonna circle back to that inevitably. Soulbound, let's hear your
take on this question. What do you think?
Is China a threat in gaming?
What's your take here?
Let's go. I love
Lito's take. I'm going to take a different approach.
I think that just in general
from the innovation side
of things, I just wouldn't mess
with China. I think that the US
has obviously been a powerhouse
for the last century or so, plus probably. Yeah, the last 400 years, literally. But in the last
little bit, I think they've gotten very comfortable. And comfort leads to, yeah, you stop growing and
Yeah, you stop growing and you stop innovating and you stop doing new things. And you're already starting to see even just like the conversation around AI. There's a lot of stuff cooking in Asia in general and specifically in China. And I think when you throw in the conversation around artificial intelligence and gaming, that is definitely, I mean, the meta or whatever word you want to use, that is the thing of the next decade. And I really believe that over the next five to ten years, I still think we're very early,
you stop innovating and you stop doing new things. And you're already starting to see,
but over the next few years and over the next decade, those that apply AI to their businesses,
and that just applies even outside of gaming to just speak on a macro sense, but let's keep it
at gaming. Those that apply AI correctly to gaming and know
how to use these tools and maximize its potential, I think are going to blow a lot of people out of
the water. And right now what we're seeing with AI in general, I think coming out of Asia is
absolutely deadly from a business sense. So I really think that, you know, America's doing
its thing, but I think they're very comfortable.
And out of comfort, you stop innovating.
You stop trying new things.
You stop, yeah, you stop doing new stuff.
And I think that that's very, very dangerous to any industry.
So, yeah, I think there's that.
And then even just from the gaming side of things, they're absolutely crushing it.
I can't, I'm having a blank right now.
I can't name anything off the top of my head,
but a lot of titles that have come out of there are doing pretty well. And I would say that,
yeah, just with my previous point, I feel like if we don't catch up or we don't continuously
innovate and provide new things in the world of AI, that's absolutely going to demolish
everybody that is not applying this fast moving technology.
So yeah, that's what I think.
I think a lot of us can agree with your take there.
And thank you for as we get into the topic, introducing the macroeconomic picture.
You actually made me realize that before this spaces I was looking at those infographics
this is randomly but it's interconnected somewhat especially with what you said
and this infographic was showing on US trade partners globally in comparison to China from
2004 to 2005 and it's changed drastically so I love that you've brought
this angle to the discussion okay Fantico let's hear your take on this topic as well
as we just somewhat start to scratch it because we're gonna get a little deep for the hour that we have here definitely so actually honestly
is china a threat for gaming i believe right now china is a threat for everything not just gaming
not i don't know electronics or ai but simply everything they're they're showing the whole world that they're ready to
take over any kind of industry so and better and better and gaming as well I mean just imagine
they have Tencent which is the biggest gaming company in the world like I think so I I mean they have riots and epic and supercell and mobile
uh the League of Legends Valorant and all of those titles and there it doesn't look like they're
they're stopping anytime soon they're just trying to go deeper and deeper in every single niche possible gaming included because we're all
we also how powerful gaming is all across the world there are billions of gamers all
across the world either mobile console I don't know computer or anything
I don't know, computer or anything.
We are all gamers at our core.
And if this is a market you can hop on and just take the lead,
they'll just do it like they showed us with every other market
that they're currently taking the lead in.
Yeah, that ties into what Soulbound says.
And when you look at the numbers, the numbers don't lie, right?
And I think we should just get into this just because I'm getting very excited.
Of course, for all the hands raised, you can chime in on whether you think China is a threat or not.
But let me introduce another topic just inspired from what
fantico said when we talk about china's dominance and its growing dominance in gaming specifically
i think they already have mobile hands down under their control if i I'm not wrong, seven out of the top 10 titles
are from Chinese studios.
So let me introduce that to this topic.
Next up, we have Creon.
So Creon, give us your take.
I know you raised your hand to make a comment
on whether China's a threat on gaming,
but also give us your take on this mobile dominance,
which I believe China already has.
Ooh.
Well, thank you for that information, brother.
I have not confirmed that.
So getting it from you, I know that's fact coming from Mr. Consul.
So I don't know why am i excited about this because
um whether it's a threat or not i don't really care at this point but i'm but i'm more excited
about um because you know competition is good i'm neither um against america or the west nor um
pro china but i think you know a race for competence is good.
And I'm more excited about what they can come up with
when it comes to the quality of the games
and whether they're fighting for people's attention
or the gamer's attention.
That's going to be healthy.
I mean, I think that's just how I see it.
So I'm expecting more good quality
games and when it comes to like mobile um yeah i mean yeah i've seen a lot of mobile coming
mobile games coming from the from china and i'm actually playing um some of those games and um
i i wasn't really sure uh it was just like regional but now that they confirmed it, it's not what it is right now. So competence is good.
I'm waiting for more quality games coming from the West
and if they can offer, you know, far more.
I'm excited for it.
Yeah, I like that you said the games are really good.
Let's just have that echoing somewhere in the back of our minds, right?
Because we're going to circle to that and tied to what Leto was somewhat already talking about,
and that is target audience and demographics.
Let me just throw this out there to pivot us more into talking about the mobile dominance China already experiences.
Number one, Honor of Kings.
I'm sure you guys have heard of this title.
It's always number one on the revenue charts.
That's by Tencent.
PUBG by Tencent.
Genshin Impact by MiHoYo. My bad. MiHoYo. That's also by China. Call of Duty even
made their mobile game in collaboration with Tencent, which is China, right? So,
Villenia, please give us your takes on this.
Do you think it's a threat?
And what's your take on my opinion that mobile gaming is already just China gaming?
I don't think mobile gaming is just China gaming.
I think mobile gaming is accessibility for people playing in third world countries as well,
where they cannot access the consoles.
And the only thing they can play on, it's on their mobile devices.
Also, it's an entry point for upcoming generations of players
that use their parents' phones like we used to do
when we used to play on Flash games when we yeah when we were younger um i don't think
it poses a threat um what i think is that it all depends on what lens we are wearing what lenses
we're wearing when we we're seeing this imagine imagine thinking that for us westerners is a
it's a threat to engage with something that's completely unknown for us
and i can tell you bro like um like games from the east can have dynamics that get you hooked
let's imagine this case right i used to play a lot uh pests in pro evolution soccer back in the
pandemic and by the time it changed to a thing that totally sucks and you can see
the metrics of it how people stopped playing that game after the the updates from 20 2021
there was a chinese version of it that still allowed you to play there was another game that was similar to Ace Combat, which was an air simulation, a firefight air simulation.
And it was so crazy because the versions that worked and that kept users hooked for a longer
period of time were the Chinese versions that didn't move towards Western dynamics for value extraction of the users with
microtransactions everywhere. So what's a threat to us can be actually a window of
opportunity for new players and for people who they're only out of enjoying
video games, it's mobile. Ooh, okay, okay, okay. That's a spicy take, guys. I think that needs a
heart pump from everybody in the audience. Let me summarize what I believe I've heard you say,
and that is maybe we're looking at it as a threat, but they're offering us different experiences without the microtransactions.
And that's an opportunity.
That is a good take.
That is the type of take that makes me smile.
And I lay on my bed at night looking at the ceiling and it echoes in my mind continuously.
So I'll take note of that. We'll circle back to that. I also like that's what's led them to have dominance over mobile
So I'll take note of that.
We'll circle back to that.
because they've been working for mobile
and serving a mobile audience for a pretty long time now.
Chainbrain, give us your thoughts, buddy.
And thanks for the patience.
Brother, thank you for asking and for letting me know.
So here's the thing you guys um
there was a point made earlier by lito um concerning how uh they're not really like
china's not really dealing with the same constraints constraints as the americans
with dei and all that i think that's a fair point but i do want to also point out that since trump
came around dei is kind of dead i don't know if you guys noticed
like the whole dei movement is sort of under the ground ever since trump took over uh chinese
culture also has serious constraints when it comes to gaming studios and what they can and cannot
sort of like publish as a video game so it's also obviously you guys can tell like you can see it's
a very conservative culture it's an authoritarian government and it is also there
the gaming studios over there are also very limited so i do respect that they're dealing
with those sorts of pressures and able to come out with you know some really good stuff the other
thing is like i'm not really looking at it as us versus them like i'm supporting good games um and
if they're going to produce games that are going to act up as, act like wake up calls to greedy studios,
like EA and other publishers,
then really I welcome it with open arms.
Like if they're going to really make good games and they're going to
present some competition to these really greedy studios that we're dealing
with in North America and the collective West.
And I really support it for web three games.
I'm sorry.
Before I get into web three games,
guys,
like I don't know if you guys played a black myth,
Wukong, but God damn, that is a legendary game it just blew me away unreal like
it's so good it was it's like a it's almost like a souls-like but with like this fantastic lore
badass characters incredible progression it blew me away you guys and if you guys if you guys go
on ign like there's sorry not ign if you go on youtube and you check
ign's review of black myth wukong you're gonna see so much bias they're kind of like yeah it's a good
game yeah whatever and then in the comment section everybody's like dude f off like this is a 10 on
10 and you guys are on it because it's not from the west so there obviously is that sort of bias
happening uh last thing i'll say you guys is is like from a Web3 perspective, like Web3 gaming perspective, I think it's a very tricky one because obviously in mainland China, you're dealing with an atmosphere where crypto trading is very much not permitted.
I mean, they do support the technology.
They support blockchain tech or they're supportive of the technology, for example, for their digital one, for for example but they're not really supportive of the overall uh play to earn ecosystem although
people still do all these things under the radar uh but you're dealing with an authoritarian
government that's not that's really doesn't want to deal with that sort of thing so it's kind of
tricky when it comes to web3 gaming and obviously we're we're way ahead when it comes to that in
the way in the collective west and yeah that's all I wanted to say. No, I like,
I like the point that you and Valenia have brought to this discussion,
because why are we as gamers thinking that what's happening in gaming is a
trade war?
Truly,
it shouldn't matter who produces the experience.
As long as it's a good game,
why the hell are we getting all these publications of gaming is getting
dominated by China? It shouldn't really matter, right? At the core of it, if it's a good game,
let's enjoy a good game. And fun fact, because you spoke about constraints, I just couldn't help but think China is the same country that tried to make its demographic, and I'll try to say this without laughing.
They tried making their gamers only game once, or was it for 10 minutes a day? Have you guys come across that law?
I was just about to mention that.
Come again, Lito?
I was just about to mention that.
It's like 1.5 hours a day on weekdays,
and then I think they increase it to three hours on weekends,
the amount of hours people under 18 are allowed to play.
Yeah, Akedas, I need to know,
are you guys moving into China or out of China, if that's the policy that you've just had from Leto?
1.5 hours gaming a week, a weekday, full stop, right?
But this is just thoughts, Chainbrain, you've stimulated in me.
Valenia, I believe your hand was raised.
It's gone down on my side. Yeah. But pleaseia, I believe your hand was raised. It's gone down on my side, but please.
No, no, it was raised.
It was raised.
It's interesting.
I mean, let's think about something,
which is the level of control that exists there, right?
Like the level of how tech is intertwined.
And I say this not having been there yet,
but following some content creators
who have dedicated a good chunk of time into, you know, getting at least the awareness of how things are for us.
I am based in Latin America for us to understand this, how it works.
Right.
And we need to also be aware of, yeah, the level of control that exists in everything there.
everything there right and gaming it's not not gonna stop for that but we also need to be aware
Right.
And gaming, it's not going to stop for that.
of how there are places like macau which are there you know vegas of china and people go there
just to gamble and gamble and gamble and how the dynamic can be created towards that i mean we
already live in a world where gaming turns out to be more of uh it's becoming a lot of a waste of time when games are not in the
quality and when games are not in the how can I say this not in the possibility for people to create
community within them you know I think communities are getting more scattered I think people are
becoming more and more biased and the other aspect of this is the use of social media for it, right?
Some people really rather consume content of creators playing games
than playing games themselves, right?
Either because they are not that good at doing so
or because they don't feel like they have enough time to play,
but they have enough time to watch others do so?
And this is very important to consider
when we're trying to evaluate how things are done
in the biggest, let's say, stakeholder
or the biggest house of the East
compared to how we do things in the West.
I believe the model of the West compared to how we do things in the west i believe the model of the west
um seems to be becoming outdated or too extractive of value of the gamers and
i don't know if playing more hours and burning more of your of your dollars in your pocket it's
something that it's appealing you know but uh that's what we are here for right to try and discuss and figure out what
things can be of use in the positive manner from the east compared to the west i guess so right
yeah and if there's one thing i know about addiction when you try to limit that's when
you get people more addicted if i was in a country that's telling me only 1.5 game time a weekday,
my goodness, I wouldn't, I just can't help but anticipate the next day when I have
one hour, 30 minutes to play. I'm consuming games like a dog on rabies, but it's interesting that you spoke about control and i think that element
of china's control on its population and on the companies that operate in its territory
at least from what we know according to western media is why some people may feel, huh, this is something we should be worried about, right?
Because, and Fantico raised really good titles of studios, Tencent being the granddaddy that
he mentioned. There's no way the CCP is not operating through Tencent. And I think when you say control, I just can't
help but think, yeah, I think that's why people in the West are scared. Creon, let's get your
takes on this. Then I'll throw out another question. I lost some of my thoughts, bro.
But I think somebody mentioned earlier about companies, you know, kind of like greedy companies
are kind of like monopolizing. And it's crazy because I also mentioned earlier about companies, you know, kind of like greedy companies are kind of
like monopolizing. And it's crazy
because I also mentioned in a comment
about Tencent.
So not
really China, but yeah,
Tencent is in China, right?
And that's actually what's threatening
for me because
you know how it is,
China's like,
they're into data and privacy I mean I mean they like to kind of like breach data sometimes privacy and your privacy and that can be used for
many things for many purpose right so it kind of scary when a company like Tencent is monopolizing
gaming and that can be used for for so many things I don't know it can be for a side or scary when a company like Tencent is monopolizing gaming.
And that can be used for so many things.
I don't know.
It can be for a side or whatever.
Maybe I'm a conspiracy theorist, but it's something that I'm kind of like concerned about when it comes to like threat.
Gaming is as a threat, you know.
Yeah, I think I echo your sentiments there when we speak about control we know that is a
economy that's very well controlled and who knows what if this game's a brain rot to us
to educate their own education we saw that happen in t, right? We can at least say we saw that happen on TikTok.
If you compare the TikTok of the West
and the TikTok of the East,
it's different TikToks.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
Valenia, jump in.
Yeah.
I wanted to mention something there
as you talk about TikTok and stuff like that.
Like, literally,
a lot of positive metrics are being reached by Web3 Games just by using on,
just by playing with the TikTok algo
compared to the Insta and X algo, right?
They're reaching more awareness.
People are hooked into TikTok.
And I can tell you from content creators
I know on that social media
that is a platform in which even when you start creating by the moment you start creating and you
get hooked into it and you get to see the all those crazy numbers going on your brain gets broken
like the brain rod is real and not on only on the silly side of it but on the on the deeper
only on the silly side of it, but on the deeper layer of it.
And it's something that we must consider as well,
like how some of those dynamics that may happen on gaming in the East
will come back to the West and will end up having an impact
on the upcoming generation of gamers.
I mean, I know you guys mentioned PUBG before, but it was very hooked.
It was something very interesting when I started playing that game on mobile
and I got really hooked into it.
It was really giving me an experience I couldn't get otherwise.
Back in, this is 2018, 2019, right?
I didn't have a console with me, so I was just doing like a big console.
I was just doing PSP and mobile gaming.
And people get really encouraged to spend the money into that, bro.
At the end of the day, like down the road,
because they're investing their little time that they have, right?
It's not because they are forcing it on the microtransaction side of things.
I'm not saying that they don't have that.
Probably they do to some extent, yet think about it.
This is people who have a version of of communication messages in which
um you can do everything with those apps it's it's a it's a completely different world if you
even check how the tourist the the touristic sector works for the chinese market it's everything so
well crafted to be to be done under the sphere of as i mentioned before control you want to have
and it's uh yeah i mean talking about the free will that we have in the west sometimes for
businesses it ends up playing badly and it is what it is you know like we need to keep that in mind
and at the end of the day if a game is not profitable too, that means it's not going to survive for too long.
So, yeah, so many things happen different on the West, bro.
Yeah, the West and the East are really contrasts.
And your statement made me think, what if studios in the East are actually getting some sort of endorsement and government support?
Because we know that level of control happens in the economies.
Whilst in the West, studios are shutting down because they're not really getting that level of support.
Maybe the Western nations have not viewed gaming as a key driver of the economy as much as the East.
I want to push back on your very brilliant points, which I agree with.
But for the sake of discussion, let me be the devil's advocate here.
You're hooked to PUBG, my friend, just as you stated,
whilst in the nation, they're telling their audience to only play for
1 hour 30 minutes a day
you know and
I just can't help
absolutely
but that's displayed
I mean
that's displayed
that's using the tech of the East
displayed in the West
so to some extent
it overlaps with the TikTok narrative, right?
Like, isn't it what they might intend sociologically, right?
To keep, keep on having, uh, Westerners hooked into some of the stuff that
they're building for.
Um, I mean, this was, uh, yeah, this was for you.
I was using Huawei phones back in those days also you
know i i didn't feel like uh the american brand was fulfilling my my needs in terms of tech um
and some of the gaming experience that i was having because uh my girlfriend back then she
used to she used to have ios and the ios games were not fulfilling my needs you know when i tried to uh play with a
couple of games there so this is actually being hooked to the chinese tech of entertainment to
some extent and obviously they they need to keep on engaging their working force to do what they
are supposed to do on the daily life instead of just brain rotting with a shooting simulator.
Yeah, I agree.
And I know you spoke about monetization.
If you want to know what microtransactions are,
you need to play Genshin Impact.
They are literally the godfathers of gacha games.
If you think on that side they're being polite with how they just grab our wallets just just play that game buddy i'll i'll only say that just to push
back on your great points but i wholeheartedly agree the contrast is very vivid and it's it's
very interesting to discuss and i'm glad that we're having this conversation.
Let me just throw in another statement, then we'll come to you, Chainbrain.
Solbar and Fantico, you gentlemen have been a little too quiet.
Chainbrain, you spoke about Wukong Black Mist.
And I don't think there's any game that claimed 2024 as much as that game did and what's
interesting about this game is that it's not on mobile china's been known to be a mobile hit
wonder we just extensively discussed about china and mobile this was on pc what do you guys see concerning triple a development studios
not aiming for mobile but on pc and console coming out of china let's have a little
discussion on that chain brain you can kick us off
thank you brother well look there's there's something i want to point out to you if you look
at the the sort of market um if you look at the chinese market for gamers and compare that to the
united states obviously in china there's way more in terms of like the number of gamers but each
gamer has lower disposable income than the average american gamer so you're essentially looking they're
not far apart from
each other. Like China has more people, less disposable income. America has way less, but much
more disposable income. So in terms of like their, how much money is in each market, I believe the
United States is still more, but not that much more. So China is an absolutely massive market,
right? And the people there who are playing video games, like there's a lot of them who are just
like diehards and the things that they tend to play and let's not forget for that reason guys
like when when when china launches games on mobile they know their audience so well and they know
exactly how to create a game that's addictive they know how to create those dopamine loops
they know how to create a game that's going to get those people hooked and and playing for a
very long time so they are absolute masters in creating that sort of game now when it comes to console games guys like it's like i don't know if you remember when
nintendo released uh zelda uh the first zelda game that was open world for the first time
and it blew the pants off of like so many other game development projects and publishers because
they did it so well and it was their first attempt at creating an open world game for zelda it was insane like i don't know if you guys
remember when it first came out everybody was like god damn how did they get it so right and they did
and this is exactly i feel what happened with black myth wukong on a console because i think
this was one i think this was their very pretty much their first if i'm not mistaken correct me
if i'm wrong but i think this was their this was think this was their very, pretty much their first, if I'm not mistaken, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this was their,
this was their first console blockbuster,
triple a title that just everybody was mesmerized by the average gamer was just like,
God damn,
you guys are,
I can't believe you guys like release such a,
and it was so different too.
It wasn't just like,
you know,
a copy paste of anything else that we've seen.
It was something that we've never quite seen before.
I think it had some of the best lore I've seen in an action uh in action fighter a fighting game like
that one um so do i i do think that guys don't like don't forget the like in china they have
really really really brilliant people out like in china like if you guys look at what they did
with deep seek with like not even a quarter of the resources that open AI had or other AI creators
had in China, you guys, they're very smart.
They're very creative and they're able to create things with less, right?
So I do take that their potential to create AAA blockbuster games once they get their
heads in the game is absolutely massive.
Now, there's just one other thing I wanted to touch on real quick.
You know, there is this concern that we're just touching on concerning how, oh, you know,
China's TikTok and they're stealing our data.
And OK, sure, I don't disagree.
And I'm not a trust.
I'm not a fan of authoritarian regimes.
I'm from Egypt.
And, you know, I ran away from the totalitarian dictatorship in that country.
And Mr. Consul, I've spoken to him about that in the past.
So I'm not I'm not
for those kinds of regimes but guys do you think your data is really safe with Facebook do you
think it's really safe with any of these other platforms that are American homemade and home
grown like for god's sake you guys like this is the same country that's telling us there's no
Weinstein client list so get the fuck out of there like it's all over the place you guys the
corruption is everywhere um so i'm not you
know i'm just saying it's at the end of the day yes there are an authoritarian regime that might
be stealing data but i don't know if we're that much better in terms of what we're doing in the
collective west truly it's all about the narrative that's sold looking at how our data is manipulated
it's really the same on that side and on this side.
I think on that side, it's even better
because they tell you that they're taking your data.
On this side, they just act like they're not taking your data,
but they're taking your data, which is quite interesting.
But let me move us into a really good direction we're taking here,
and that is China and AAA titles,
China and titles not for mobile, but titles for PC.
I'll make a comment on what you said
because I'm very, very intrigued on what you said.
Let's first hear from Soulbound.
Soulbound, jump in, jump in.
Oh, man, I don't even know. I don't even know where to take the conversation.
Nadeem just absolutely crushed it.
I was going to comment on the whole desktop thing, desktop games compared to mobile,
which I think that, yeah, no, it's really interesting.
I really think that there's a huge place for AAA games or console games, desktop and console AAA games. You guys mentioned Wukong at 2024. Right now, no, I personally think there will always be a place for AAA games, console or desktop,
or something that, you know, mobile won't be able to provide.
I do think, though, mobile will continue to eat the market share.
I think it's something like 70% of gamers are playing mobile games right now.
So that's undeniable, just at the level of scale and accessibility,
especially a lot of folks do not have uh gaming pcs and consoles around the world but uh on a larger scale i
definitely think there will can there will always be at least maybe until the iphone or the next
device becomes the thing or the iphone or sorry or the phone the mobile device becomes so powerful
that then you can play it as a console
and play these triple-a games which to be honest we're probably gonna end up going there anyway
uh but in this time this current time right now i would definitely say um yeah mobile games are
continuing continuously going to dominate but i do think triple-a games um have something to offer
that no other mobile game could provide right now at least.
So yeah to answer your question coming out of China I'm still very bullish of a lot of games
coming out of there that are not mobile as much as they're completely dominating the mobile side
of things and I'm really bullish on a lot of games outside of China too. Shout out to like
you know I just mentioned Expedition 33 they They're an indie team from France, right?
So really cool to see that.
And, you know, I'm really excited to see a lot of the other indie games as well.
I literally just got my girlfriend addicted to Stardew Valley.
And I just saw a post how they just reached the highest rating on Steam.
And yeah, they launched in 2016.
So really interesting.
There's a lot of stuff there.
I don't think Stardew Valley has a mobile version, although I think they would be able
to do that.
But yeah, just to speak to my point, I definitely think we'll always yearn for that quality
type of experience until the next thing is able to do that for us.
That's what I think.
I also need to wrap it up. I have a Goblin Town AMA I'm hosting in a few minutes
but this was really great mr. mr. console one of my favorite hosts in the
space absolutely crushing it bigger love to all arcaders here Marcelo just dropped
the mic and he's about to leave.
I want you guys to follow him.
Let's give him some hearts.
Let's give him some hearts.
He's a man with a really, really generous heart.
I love him.
And that's why we need to give him the hearts.
Brilliant takes.
Yes, I agree that mobile is forever going to be Big big daddy until that changes i don't know what's
gonna change that and maybe the chinese are tired of dominating the mobile space and they
want to get into pc they want to get into the console they just want to flex more muscle
it's interesting that Chainbrain,
you said that they're producing this AAA titles less
in the sense of it's cheaper.
It's faster go-to-market.
They also have pretty intriguing laws.
Fantico, you've been quiet for a little while.
Before you and Lito leave,
I need you guys to say something
because both of you have been a little too quiet.
So, Fantico, Lito, let's hear from you.
What's your take concerning this?
Is the Western audience really hungry for Eastern law?
Are we in the West just finding budgets go way, way overhand?
Whilst in China, they're able to do it cheaper.
Is that going to be the competitive advantage?
Give us your takes here.
I think that in the West,
well, seeing what I see on Twitter,
I check out these posts,
I see these replies.
There's a common theme of
even Americans or people from the West
praising gaming companies from the East
like China over the good that they're doing in gaming.
I think that at the end of the day,
people just want to see good games.
And if it comes from the East or it comes from the West,
it doesn't matter.
They just want to see good games.
Of course, me being a proud American,
I would love for good games to come from here.
But at the end of the day,
if it takes for a country in the East, like China,
to give us the games that we want and enjoy playing, then I'm fine with it.
That's all I really care about.
Yeah, truly.
I think from a gamer standpoint, we need to revert to that ideology that Valenian Chainbrain introduced to us.
And that is, if the game is good, why should it matter where it comes from?
Okay, Fanticoico i saw you waving
your hands i don't know if that means you want to leave but give us your takes no no i was just
i was just waving soulbound because uh he was living but i completely agree with that i mean
we were talking earlier about the the conflict between is China a threat, is I don't know,
Europe a threat or any country or continent.
While on gaming, nobody is a threat as the guy said.
We enjoy any type of game produced by anybody.
Of course, we all want our country to produce it
because it's something normal but as long as i'm able to play it and it's not like gate kept to
their country i'm 100 happy that they produce that kind of game like black wukong is which
produced that kind of game like black wukong is which demolished 2024 and the gaming the
but the the console gaming industry and they took us by surprise and it's exactly what
what i was saying in in the start of the space i just believe that they china is trying to get into all sorts of gaming and not just gaming
they're trying to flex as you guys said trying to show off the world that they have the resources
they have the people they have the brain they have everything they need to create some, I don't know, triple, quadruple, 6000x AAA games.
They're ready to give us the best experience.
And I'm convinced that we will soon see more and more games, both on PC and console.
Of course, mobile as well and let's be honest all of us
mobile will be forever king because it's the cheaper the cheapest way to to play games all
across the world and not everybody has access to a pc or a console so yeah to be honest i'm not
afraid of china i don't think anyone anyone in here should be afraid of them, at least in terms of games.
OK. And yeah, while they're doing their stuff in a good way, I think we should all take profits on this.
We should all leverage it.
Yeah, I love that take.
And one trend I'm seeing from studios in the East,
specifically China,
is that they're not building for the Chinese audience anymore.
They're actually exporting to the Western audience now.
They are building games for us to enjoy.
You shouldn't feel threatened by this at all. Sorry to interrupt you. to the Western audience now. They are building games for us to enjoy. To be honest, to be honest,
it really looks like,
sorry to interrupt you,
it really looks like they're not building for China,
they're building for us.
It looks completely different than before.
Yeah, I agree.
The quality of the games are really sky high.
Their laws are really sky high.
And if they can get it to market cheaper, that means it comes to us cheaper, right?
Because some of the cost experience in development is pushed forward to the gamer.
I like that take, buddy.
Lito, thank goodness you are in Cleveland.
I saw you waving and I started to panic.
No, no, I was waving goodbye to Marcello.
But yeah, no, I think a little bit of a tangent.
We were talking a little bit earlier.
Someone mentioned how mobile is going to be king of gaming right now until something replaces it.
This is a slight bit of a tangent.
But I think that maybe give us like 20, 50, something 100 years.
think that maybe give us like 20, 50, something 100 years. I think that the thing that ultimately
ends up replacing this mobile meta is some form of affordable version of like reality glasses or
implants into our eyes. Technology and science is moving at a breakneck speed. I don't see it being
like crazy out of this world to think that 50 years from now, we can go outside and, you know,
just turn on a switch on our body or an implant and all of a sudden a sort of
reality, like telegram, like, let's say, uh,
like what that happened in star Wars would appear.
We basically wouldn't need phones anymore. They would be obsolete.
They'd be part of our body. You know, that's a little bit of a tangent,
but whoever like really masters that technology, they're going to be rich.
Yeah. And I hope to get the right body part, playing games. I want my pinky toe
to be playing games. I want this new tech. Yeah. I mean, let's see how it all plays out. We're here
to experience it firsthand, being in the game space
being in web3 gaming which also adopts this technology and takes the trends with a lot of
seriousness i don't know if it's gaming or mobile or ai it's just dominance and quality that's gonna
win the hearts of the users all right chain brain Chainbrain, let's hear from you.
I believe we'll just go around with one final question,
quick takes, and conclude the space
right at the top of the hour,
which is a little bit odd
because we always go 30 minutes over time.
But today we'll respect time
because biggest spaces are back.
Chainbrain.
Mom, man, this has been such a blast.
Listening to you as a host and to all your awesome speakers, Lido.
All of you guys, Funtico, really love listening to all your takes.
I think we all agree that China is not really the threat in gaming,
but I was just wondering what is the threat?
And what I believe is the actual threat are greedy executives are monopolies in gaming studios that have too much
control over publishers and developers toxic workplaces like you know i've heard i've read
things from actual people who used to work at ubisoft and at ea describing the environment
that they were a part
of and how toxic it was inside of those environments and how you know like dei is great and i i get it
i actually admired the spirit of it um but if you do read some of the things that some of those
people who worked at those projects were saying about the environment is like it was so toxic and
it was such a tunnel vision sort of environment and it was limiting creativity.
And it was just this micromanaging place where people were just not able to express themselves.
You know, a lot of that is also why Ubisoft has gone down the drain in so many respects.
If you look at their stock price right now, it really is not what it used to be whatsoever.
And their stature as a developer is really not where it used to be either um so you
know with that in mind if china if china is able to enter the game consistently like i'm not talking
about mobile games i'm talking about what more wukongs i'm talking about you know more of those
kind of games if they can jump into the space and really provide us with more of that at a at a
decent price point at a good price
point. I don't want it to be super cheap. Like I still want it to be competitive where people who
work in the gaming industry can still make a good living. So I don't want it. I don't want games to
be like $10. I also don't want them to be $120. So if they step in and provide that competition
for lore, uh, for pricing, for distribution of games, then I'm all for it.
And I want to see those executives in the West
think twice before they hike the prices of games
just because they know everybody's going to buy it
or just because they know they are the monopoly
or the big boy around the table.
So I'm all for the competition.
For sure.
And a lack of innovation from the studios is in fact a threat to them,
not even to us, right? And competition just grants us more options. If these guys don't get cooking,
if they don't get to the lab, they are slowly going to see their revenue streams dry up and they'll have to close operations.
But speaking about workplace culture, China is tough on that my friend.
I don't know if you've heard of 996 but those guys don't sleep.
They have their foot on the gas, heavy in comparison to the west but all that crunch time that studios experience
before the release of a new title or the release of a new update yeah that's something we need to
address and i think that could be a really interesting space to just pick your brains on
okay let's get to the final question i know with three minutes over time so you guys can just
brush over it very very fast when i was preparing this notes this was actually some time back
right we were to host this some time back but i believe we also got caught up with a few initiatives
concerning soft launch and what inspired me to just want to explore this topic
with the bright minds here and arcaders from the last hour,
that statement holds weight,
is the fact that in South Korea, they raised an alarm.
They raised an alarm because Tencent wanted to buy one of its studios
and Tencent was just buying all of their studios.
And they were just like, no, as an industry, we can't allow this.
China is just growing in influence.
I believe they own a few percentages of Korean companies.
None at the tips of my finger here.
But it just made me ask and I know we've
somewhat stated that the gaming aspect of them providing us good experiences and a threat
but what do you guys think about the money coming from China because if there's any studio that's
buying studios right now you spoke about Ubisoft my friend i think tencent made an investment in ubisoft
it's it's tencent tencent is really making money so let's just go around the table real quick
do you guys see that investments into gaming companies from china can be a little bit of a
geopolitical risk creon we're starting with you because you've been too quiet my friend
i thought you're starting with me because you've been too quiet, my friend.
I thought you were starting with me because I'm in Asia and pretty close to China. But, man, I'm really scared.
Not in a way that I'm finding finding but it's really bothering that Tencent
has a lot of influence and investment in every almost every games top games that
you can you can find on most especially in mobile and you know if they're trying
to acquire more companies to the games, that's really bothering.
I'm not even sure, but I can't help them in.
Their games are really good.
I play some of their games.
That's why I mentioned earlier that it's good,
but also in a way, it's a bit scary,
especially when they're monopolizing it.
I'm much more concerned about the data and the access that they have in all those people,
of people's accounts, you know, since they have like influence and, you know, power to do that.
They can have more control.
Hold on, I kind of like lost the question.
Bro, can you repeat that
that exact question sorry i'm taking time yeah no i'm loving hearing the rooster
i catered i hope you guys heard that or maybe it was my ears playing games with me but the
rooster the rooster is cooking the rooster is alive i'd love to hear what the rooster has to say as well yeah
but the question here is on on the gaming angle at least we've concluded that it's it's not a
threat as long as the games are good the price points are okay the quality of the game is all
right that's not a threat but But is money coming from Tencent,
which is actually like big daddy at this point,
a threat, a geopolitical risk for some of these countries?
Like South Korea raised that alarm.
That's the question.
Politically, man, it's hard to speculate on that.
But money coming from China, whether it's from gaming or anything,
any industry, that can have a lot of political influence.
And I don't know how will that affect us globally.
But you know how it is when China moves, right?
Even America, the United States, they get bothered you know at some point
you know um in a way so it can actually affect us you know indirectly but for us you know in crypto
web3 guys definitely directly we are going to be hit by that as well you know how how how do you political uh concerns affect the market
um yeah so it's a little bit threatening um to me as well so not happy about that that's why
i mean it has to be kind of like neutralized in some way it's why uh tencent monopolizing every studios every gaming of developers or studio companies
up that's that's concerning yeah I agree I mean they're just everywhere at this
point and they're liquid they're buying equity at a good premium and they're the
only ones buying which is very interesting or at least the only ones
making headlines buying.
Fantico, what's your take on this?
We're just going around really briefly.
Is it a threat? Is it not a threat? Is it a geopolitical risk?
Give us your thoughts.
So, as you guys said, yeah, they look like they're the only ones acquiring.
And as we were discussing in the beginning about Riot,
I remember the days that China took over, Tencent took over Riot and damn they did an unbelievable job with them,
with Riot, Riot being an American company, if I'm not mistaken,
before being bought by China.
Yeah, to be honest, I don't think it's a threat for us, for, I don't know, common people or Web3, Web2 users,
gamers in general, I don't think it's a threat.
But for the geopolitical side of view i think it's a threat
because if you saw the the way the states got into defense mode when they they they realized how much power China has over their population
because of TikTok and everything they are involved in,
they are trying to leverage in the best way.
So yeah, I think there's a risk of escalating stuff,
but I don't think that's the main risk.
I think that's just something on the side
but I don't see how they can be stopped to be honest I don't see a way of of you stopping them
in any way being I don't know the European Union or United States or any anybody they're liquid they they have money
and if they want to buy something they will eventually oh yeah that's a good one that
actually answers the question we've posed and the title of this space and truly they can't be
stopped who's gonna say no to money when it to money, as much as we speak ethically,
I don't think anybody cares where it comes from.
Clean, dirty, dirty, clean.
It's going to fund the dream.
It's going to help the studio bring its project to life.
And I don't think anybody judges that, right?
Mr. Consul, I just want to say this real quick.
I think that could be a strategy for economic warfare there say it oh
Kriot is being cheeky and making and wanting us to be here for another 30
minutes I'm gonna act like I did not hear that little please help me act like I
did not hear that real quick I just wanted to mention that it's also
important to mention that big
companies like tencent or these other big corporations in china that are involved with
gaming they're all at the end of the day run by the chinese communist party so if they ever need
like any amount of injection of money or if they don't care about regulations and want to rush any
sort of product or whatever they have the power of the chinese
club fitness party to do what they want so i don't know that's just something to really uh think about
you know so uh i also have to say uh i have to go now thank you so much for having me on
i appreciate uh thank you brian uh brian uh fun to go on the creon big uh y'all have a great day
so good to meet you bro good to meet you, bro.
Good to meet you too, man.
We'll talk to you again, actually.
But yeah.
I appreciate you, buddy.
And that's just facts.
These companies are not operating on their own.
And if there's one thing I know about China
and its control over its economy,
it's typically its monetary part. And the capital
exit is really looked upon keenly. They do anything possible to keep the yuan cheap for
their exports. And if China, sorry, if Tencent is moving money out of China, I'm believing that's not just a corporate decision.
Okay, Valenia,
let's get your takes on this real quick.
Then we'll come to Chain Brain
and I believe conclude
this as a successful space.
Specifically on what?
I got lost in the last bit.
Yeah, on Tencent money.
Is Tencent money a risk?
Geopolitically or for studios to be cautious over?
I mean, we're talking about a strategy of owning other studios just to gain more power.
Isn't that what studios in the West are doing at the same time?
Isn't that what we've seen that happen in the last decade
where big studios use buy others to get their IP and not develop it.
So as I said in the beginning, and I stay firm to that,
the risk depends on where we see it.
And the power of social belief systems through politics
has been displayed for many years already.
And yeah, I don't know.
If we are in a position of power ourselves
right here, right now to try and change that stuff,
it's going to keep on playing like that.
And if it's a threat for us,
it might not be a threat for them on the contrary.
So that's where I stand, yeah.
Yeah, and speaking of western studios buying studios
we need to stop microsoft from buying any more studios those guys are just okay okay okay i will
not extend this topic further chain brain creon i think i've got the disease. The rooster is getting in me. Chain Brain, please conclude us.
Yeah, no, I think, guys, I love it that we started off with China's the devil.
We got to watch out and all that.
And then I think we really progressed to a place where we all agree that they're not necessarily a threat per se,
they're not necessarily a threat per se,
but they're more of now a contributor
to the overall gaming ecosystem
by their own contributions
to creating different kinds of games.
We mentioned Wukong.
We mentioned how that was such a different kind of thing
that most of us were not accustomed to.
It was so fresh for me as a player.
I was like, wow, this is so different
and I would love to see more of that.
You know, the same can be said for games like Metal gear solid which are from hideo kojima uh i i hate konami but still you
know it's obviously a japanese studio um and also a different vibe of a game i i hate konami because
of what they did with hideo kojima but uh i know some of you might feel the same way if you if
you're aware of the lore between those two um but at any rate um yeah more of that you guys let's go you know i don't want games to be 10 bucks like i said i want
them to be affordable for children and for families you know i don't like what nintendo has done uh
with mario kart world and making it so much more expensive than it needs to be and when you look
when you dig deeper into it you realize that it's pretty much a thing where the IP is so powerful that Nintendo is like, you know what, man?
I can charge 300 bucks and the people are still going to buy it because you know what?
I own Mario and I don't like that, man.
It's abusive.
You're taking this legendary timeless IP and you're milking it for so much money when you don't need to do that.
You're not acting in good faith.
So I think that's the real threat i think those guys sitting in the boardrooms behind the
behind the scenes at the executive level those are our enemies not the creative hard-working
chinese developers and studios that are bringing us these fantastic innovative uh games love it
fantastic innovative uh games love it
wholeheartedly agree and i think that concludes our space in a blissful manner
shout out to everybody who has joined this panel arcaders should them a follow please i say this from the bottom of my heart this has been a really good
topic a very relevant topic and we've agreed that what we care about is the game experience
so gamers let's keep on gaming to the panelists i hope you guys will join us for our next discussion same time same place
different topic we're gonna be talking about something juicy something that has been happening
in the space that is starting to rub me off the wrong way okay and maybe i can do a little reveal
here i just feel like gaming experiences so much negative news.
And that's what I'm going to say.
So catch you guys next week.
Same place, same time.
Arcaders, let's keep on caring about the gaming experience.
Not what the media makes us want to believe.
There is no enemy.
The enemy is greed.
The enemy is the executives that are not pushing their studios to innovate any further.
The enemy is the micro transactions that are endless.
Whilst the game experience is soulless.
Salute.
Bye guys. Much love my friends. Great to meet you all thanks for having me
bye bye bye Thank you.
