Here we are it's Thursday
Bear with us for a couple of minutes guys. I gonna get tokenizer up here going to get chain stats up here going to get
Obviously people just starting to filter in right now
Super excited to interview tokenizer the dude is well
But I mean I'm always surprised when I meet people kind of face-to-face in this space
Such a kind of like an old mind like
You know in kind of like the you know younger aspects of tokenizer, but the dude is a wealth of knowledge
Really excited to dive into on-chain
The CTO of Casper Labs, which is met a par the car to come up and kind of give us a breakdown
Looking forward into 2024
I'm sure we'll kind of tackle the some of the polarizing stuff that is you know
Yeah, I guess you could consider it polarizing stuff
But it's always like people just take news and run with it in this space without really doing any digging and stuff like that
So really interested to interview meta. We've had meta on a couple of cross-chain spaces
This will be the first opportunity to kind of do a one-on-one which will be great
But that being said let me get tokenizer chain stats and Darren all settled and we'll we'll get started with you guys
Mike check Mike check. Can you hear me? All right?
Yep, you sound good man. How do I I always start rambling and then?
Forget to ask if you can hear me is my mic. All right
I sent an invite tokenizer and chain stats. So whenever you guys are free, feel free to come up
Do see Solana is back up and running. So that's nice a good way to start a Thursday
Let's see vet as well. What's up that?
Hey, what's up, man? How are you guys doing living the dream? Can we get that?
We should get the chain stats account up here as well. Yeah. Yeah, I can do that
I'm just I just have chain stats up here on
So there's not gonna be too much coming from chain stats side, but yeah, we can get them out there pressure
Let's just bring it up here for brand recognition for you. Love it
All right, all right, we're gonna get started guys, I think all of our mics are good
If you guys are just tuning in right now, I mentioned stick around we've got tokenizer here for an hour
We're gonna dive into all things on chain analytics through chain stats
Certainly gonna dive into tokenizer as well kind of background
Really interested in hearing what you've been researching recently as well and met a parlour car CTO of Casper Labs is coming on in about
An hour that being said want to kind of kick off here and we always like to get a little bit of an introduction
From our guests that we have so token if you can maybe give a background
What brought you yourself into crypto web 3 and you know, what kind of led into the development of chain stats as well
That'd be great. Yeah for sure, man
So I guess to start off I'll give a little introduction on how I got into this space to begin with so
it was around I want to say q3 q4 of 2020 and
I'm sure we remember that was kind of the phase where all those memes about money printer going burr was coming around cuz
That was when the whole COVID stimulus thing was at its peak, right? So
as a 20 euro or no, I was I was like 18 or 19 at the time, but I
Kind of figured, you know with how the economy was and then seeing all the money printing it'd be pretty rough
For someone my age to eventually afford well a decent standard of living, right?
So I knew I had to do something about it. I was always in traditional legacy markets
but as we know there's only so much growth there, so I
was actually working three jobs at the time and at
The graveyard job. I was working out which was just a UPS warehouse. There was this one guy who?
Was just crazy about crypto he was I mean looking back it was a really hard Bitcoin maxi
But he essentially introduced me into the space and gave me the value proposition of Bitcoin as digital gold
And I was pretty intrigued by then because I'd heard of Bitcoin before
Tried, you know buying some stuff on the dark web with Bitcoin as a teenager that didn't end up so well, but
That was kind of my quote-unquote
official introduction into the space to like actually understand the use case and value of it beyond
anonymous money and so from that point on I started digging further found out about aetherium and that's when I think I really fell
in love with the space because I just learned how much more you could do beyond
You know just sending transactions back and forth, but you were actually building kind of new infrastructure and use cases of a new technology, so
Yeah from that point on it was just like research every day for eight to ten hours
And we're you know we're still doing the same thing today, but of course
now comes chain stats which
We officially incorporated about exactly one year ago from today and
Reason behind why we decided to build is so we our team isn't so much
You know your traditional crypto team coming from large fortune 500s
But we like to think we're directly from this space so our CEO Brian. He's been
Kind of trading for the past seven or eight years now and me on the other hand
I've been kind of researching the space endlessly for the past couple years, right?
We both understand the value and use case to blockchain technology as a whole but at the same time
We see tons of shortcomings with the current infrastructure
Like from the fundamentals and if we talk about on-chain data. It's almost impossible to
Trace specific transactions and actually look at what you want right now with block explorers right like for the most part
They're just random numbers and transactions that
It's really hard to filter through at the moment
That's kind of a quick rundown on my past and then kind of just a quick gist on chain stats
Which in short if you guys want just like a quick summary. We're an on-chain analytics platform that
Specifically caters towards industry use cases of on-chain data, so essentially like
Using blockchain for actual industry purposes right so think like supply chain or finance
Yeah, yep, yep, that's fair
No, and it's always interesting dude, and we're gonna dive a little bit deeper into the weeds here with chain stats as well
But it's always interesting hearing
People's kind of onboarding. I'm sure everybody in this space right now has a very interesting onboarding story into crypto and web 3
It's I always like almost think of like
Signs of blow-off top and in these spaces is when you start hearing random dudes at work come up
You ask you about crypto, and it's like hey
but it you know some of us that you know it's interesting that you kind of talk about that as well dude because like
Those of us that kind of do take you know take the take the pill and kind of go down the rabbit hole
Like you mentioned eight to ten hour research days. I mean I can think back to one
You know Darren is probably the same thing
You really like if you take the pill you take the pill and you there's no turning back as far as like actually starting to get
Involved in the research and I mean how much you know how many deep dives and everything else to come along with it?
Um, I kind of wanted to ask you as far as chain stats are concerned
You kind of gave us a little bit a little bit of an overview
You know one of the questions that I actually should preface it this way too
I've been I was dm'd a couple of days ago being like hey. Do you know of any like you know comprehensive on-chain analytics platforms?
Because obviously you could go through you know you could look at Masari and the reports that they do or you could look at
What is a glass node or electric capital or?
Santiment does great stuff
And they all kind of do different things in this space. I guess to start with
Which ecosystems do you guys plan on being integrated with?
Maybe tell us where you're at right now as far as launch things like that which ecosystems you're going to incorporate at the beginning
And that'd be yeah, maybe go from there for sure yeah, so like I said we started officially building and developing in
Well, I guess January 2023 so about a year ago
One thing we've done that's kind of unique from you could say traditional crypto projects and even on-chain platforms
Is we decided not to take venture?
Venture money and private sales just because a lot of times. I'm sure you guys know about this
I mean, I'm not gonna say any names
but certain chains have taken a lot of venture money and
sometimes that kind of centralizes the company and network itself due to the large acquisition of
Say a large private equity company coming in and taking a large share right so we decided to you know
really build organically through our community and everything and
So we obviously don't have you know say 50 million and funds to allocate to development
But I think I'm very proud of
The speed and scale that we've moved out and I think well at least I hope our community would say the same thing
one thing I will say in terms of progress at the moment is that we are looking to
Launch our MVP and official application
sometime this year for sure obviously the MVP will roll out a little earlier as
that's the like initial product that we want everyone testing and using right so
Definitely be on the lookout for that now as for what?
Differentiates chain stats from all these other on-chain analytics platforms
Well, I mean there's a lot of them on the market already, right? Like I'm not gonna lie. There's glass node
There's sentiment. There's
Crypto quant and you could even put trading viewing kind of the whole analytics kind of thing, right?
So what separates us is if we look at each of these?
current analytics companies that I've named
They're all very web to focus right like it's very
Web to business where it's like you subscribe to the platform and then you get this this and that there's really no
Customization or say for the end user. There might be if you're a large institution or an enterprise where you're buying, you know in
Extremely expensive package deal, but for the most part for end users, you really don't get a say
What we wanted to do is truly make chain stats a platform for the people by the people and
essentially what that means is
This will this kind of answers the question into different chains that will be looking to integrate
So we don't want to actually pick these chains out ourselves. We want you guys the community to decide on
What chains you guys want to integrate and vote upon and this voting feature doesn't just stay towards, you know
different chains being integrated but different analytics that you guys want to see on the platform, so
I know I might be jumping kind of all over the place right now, but
We know I mean, I think what you're saying totally makes sense. Yeah, please continue awesome. Okay. I love it
so with current on chain analytics platforms, not only do you not get a say in
Different chains and the data you want but you one don't know where this data comes from most times this comes from
different API's and sometimes again, I'm not gonna point out any names, but
Because all these platforms are using and sourcing different API's
sometimes there can be wrong or faulty data inputs on a specific network or
dataset that you're looking at and when you're using this for research or trading purposes that can
Be a pretty costly mistake if you're getting the wrong data or delayed data, right? So
We don't want to do it through API's we want to directly source that data and I'll get into how we're sourcing this data
To answer your question the different chains that we'll have on it will completely be decided by
Community votes and the voting power of course comes from our stats token
Yeah, I'm curious or Darren, I'm sorry, we're gonna go sorry. Yeah. Yeah tokenizer, you know, you brought up a really interesting point
you know, we kind of like focus on all these utility coins, but
You're absolutely right like the Bitcoin
maximalist point of view where they're talking about how much money is being spent the debts and deficits everything that's going on and
The financial world was really something that hooked me into crypto to begin with even though, you know
I would identify more as a utility investor. I am absolutely, you know
100% with the Bitcoiners on that on that subject, you know, it's just
It's just it's an argument that that wins us over very easily
Tokenizer I'm curious you talk about the ethos of
Well, I know you and I have kind of talked offline as well as far as like, you know
Trying to find synergy with the stuff we're doing even with the Genfinity stuff
And it's an interesting viewpoint of trying to source data
That people actually like want and care about I mean, and I would love for you to maybe dive a little bit deeper into that
I mean we could think about the news aspects like in crypto media as a whole right now
What it kind of represents and I think we see a lot in crypto media of breaking news for the sake
And I was actually talking to Dagenham who I see down there as well about this yesterday
Like you see breaking news for the sake of breaking news across like any crypto media site
You know that kind of exists and you know for those of us that have been here long enough
You start realizing that obviously, you know, that's one model and that's one way you could go about it
But breaking news is only as good as the next piece of breaking news that comes out
What two people really want to hear about and I think a lot of the things that happen in the space consistently
Or you have new people coming into the space. They have no idea where to go or who to follow
There's no real comprehensive kind of guides that allow people to like participate in, you know
Easy to understand ways within these ecosystems
Without me ranting I would love for you to maybe go a little bit deeper into the ethos of
Why you feel it's important to you know build out data analytics
That the people actually want to kind of use and is there any competition out there?
Like anybody else doing that right now
Yeah, 100% I love this question so to start off with kind of you know, why we think it's important
So I just mentioned before earlier about how our team organically comes from the crypto space, right? So
we understand the current end-user issues and kind of
The distrust around certain data and then as you mentioned kind of all the breaking news headlines at this point
Breaking news really doesn't mean breaking news anymore. It's just something small that came out most times
but we want to you know, I'm like
Let me put it this way if if you think about the most fundamental use case of blockchain as a whole
What would you think most people would say I'd argue most people would probably point towards transactions and sending coins back and forth, right?
That's how Bitcoin came to
Well that was the initial value proposition behind Bitcoin right a peer-to-peer electronic cash system
Well, if you break that down further another level
What sending transactions back and forth is that's on-chain data every transaction that goes on the chain
Gets minted on the blockchain and it's immutable for the rest of the history of that network, right? So
We believe that's a very powerful tool that can be used far beyond just in crypto transactions
but if you think about all these other different industries that are beginning to move to blockchain as well like
Finance is a very obvious one. We've got the tokenization of assets. We've got CBDCs. These are all things that will
Be on the blockchain meaning that every time there's a change of hands or there's a use of say
Someone acquires a certain financial asset or there's a minting of CBDCs
these are transactions that will be minted on chain and the current issue around that is that it's
impossible to source this data at the moment, right like a
lot of us are having trouble look for specific wallets and transactions that were
You know digging through like for example during the recent
XRP wallet hack that was really hard to trace for the average investor
And then if we look away from finance, we can also point to the supply chain industry
so we know a lot of you know, global trade at the moment is moving to
You know the blockchain through the United Nations model on electronic transfer records MLE TR and that's basically to
traditional trade documents because by law they have to still be in paper because of a bill that was put in in 1882
Fortunately with blockchain we're able to move all of that paper on chain now
And so that's just another aspect of you know
Data that's going to be flowing through the blockchain that will probably need to be traced in some way
because in the supply chain, you don't just you know sign off a document and never use it again, but
supply chain and global trade
Bulk shipment of bananas can be up to 200 papers
And so that not only is a lot of papers, but when you minted on chain that can be a lot of data that can be
used for let's say secondary purposes now as for end users why we think it's important is because
goes back to the point that I initially brought up and that is an issue in finding truth in this space, right like
We see a lot of hype misinformation and scams and that is a
Large part of why you know crypto just still isn't taken seriously as a space today
And we want to make it so that there is a place that you can go to for truth
And there is a place where regardless of you know what watching ecosystem and what you prefer to look at in the space
There's gonna directly be a spot for you in chain stats, and if not guess what you can vote on
You know what you yourself want to see next in the chain stats ecosystem. I
Think it you bring up a few really interesting points that I don't think a lot of people I
Don't think a lot of people think about like the implications of kind of what's being built like I think a lot of the
Times you know you see newer ecosystems, or maybe I shouldn't even say newer newer blockchains newer ecosystems
Maybe I should say newer tools being developed on on chain
And let's just even take you know probably the easiest example like NFTs
And you know you know having kind of a place where you can see every NFT
That's being minted kind of in real time, and there's a lot of that already out there that exists right now
But it's not you know that infrastructure and that tooling like isn't just
For a picture of a unicorn riding a skateboard you know what I mean like eventually as like real-world assets come on chain
You know potentially in the form of NFTs or whatever it may be a?
That can be leveraged to showcase and extract data from real-world assets. You know across the board
You bring up another interesting point which I you know I'm curious like over time
You know you know goes through launch and and X Y and Z and we'll get into some of the I want to get into sourcing
Do you feel like this is just a product for?
Like retail participants like probably most of the people in this space right now, or do you feel like we're in this?
Podcast or whatever we want to call it or do you feel like you know there's an opportunity to kind of bridge the gap for enterprise
With with the data analytics standpoint and what you guys are trying to accomplish
Yeah for sure so we want to keep the use case as sort of universal as possible so because our platform is
Fundamentally agnostic we want to keep the use cases also as agnostic as possible so for example
I was talking about how retail can use this for you know tracking their favorite blockchain
Ecosystems voting for their favorite networks to come on and change that's and everything
We're actually in talks with a couple of other businesses and companies at the moment
I'm not going to name who they are, but I will say they have previously also been on a genfinity space and
specific use cases around
tokenized real-world assets and basically how they can be traced on our chain stats platform and so
We I initially explained how the end user platform itself will have a bunch of different
Chains that can be integrated depending on what you know the community wants right?
We have this other service where let's say you know you're an enterprise
And you are building in the supply chain industry, and you're looking to
You know comply to the ML ETR laws by the United Nations
Having data on Bitcoin is probably going to be pretty useless to you
You're like you're not going to use that most likely so instead we can actually white label
You guys a chain stats dashboard, and you can plug in exactly what data you want on there
So let's say you guys might be using hyperledger fabric right that's a very common one. They're using for industry purposes
Let's say you guys also have
Use cases around aetherium you can plug both just aetherium and hyperledger in because realistically
You're not going to need the data from those other chains
And so you're not going to need to see you know the price of Bitcoin today or the total net flows of Bitcoin going into
Estranges you're going to want to see all the transactions that are being validated through hyperledger for
you know whatever you guys are doing in the supply chain and then
Beyond that we can also integrate other because we're we're not exactly a blockchain right we're a
Data analytics platform this also gives you the freedom to plug in many other you know legacy
Tech stack so this might just be like oracle databases for example
And those are those are really important because we truly believe that you know
Seamless interoperability is always going to be essential even with blockchain
Like we're not going to just replace all of our traditional systems with distributed ledger technology as great as it is
We've spent billions of dollars the past couple decades in building up our current infrastructure
and so we think it's really important that businesses are able to also move their current existing infrastructure and
Have that also work with on-chain data so for example like with current databases. Let's say
For financial markets and everything a lot of this is just literally plain data sets where you're just looking at numbers
we want to be able to take that and
Essentially take those numbers and display users their own charts of whatever or I shouldn't say users
But business is their own charts of whatever they whatever data they want to see visualized
I'm sorry were you were you gonna continue my fault? I was going to ask like what what differentiates
Chain stats versus some of the other on-chain analytics
So to me our biggest differentiator is the fact that we are very community focused in the sense that you know
Some current on-chain platforms. For example, you absolutely do not get a say in
You know what data you get you don't get to know where the data comes from
It's just you either pay for it or you don't we want to make it so that the community has a say in every part of it
So let's say our platform is officially launched a year from now and we have some data statistics on
You know traditional things like price net flows
But maybe you guys want to see some more advanced statistics for let's say the Hedera ecosystem
You want to directly be able to track and source all of those on Hedera consensus
Validations that Atma is doing and maybe you want to even you know group those transactions specifically
So like in a single click you can just look at Hedera consensus transactions
But then in another button once you click that you can look at only Hedera
Transactions that are you know, actually sending H bar tokens from in a peer-to-peer manner
So I would say the biggest thing in terms of differentiating is that we are very
I'd say we are a lot more
focused on kind of allowing the
Community and having a say on where the next step of the ecosystem goes. I think it's interesting to you bring up
You know for those not aware, obviously, there's like different
Services through like a network like Hedera where you have HTS or HCS or you know, smart contracts or whatever
It may be a file service things like that
I've actually had like interviews where you know, we see a lot of marketplace is kind of derived from
NFTs and you know, obviously DeFi and DEXs and tokens and all that other stuff, but
It'll be really interesting to watch what's built as far as not only like from a data analytics standpoint
But like marketplaces surrounding things like consensus and all the other aspects that kind of come along with this
As this space really kind of grows and develops
So I think that there's I mean
I'm sure you guys know token that there's just tons of opportunities to actually innovate and build and integrate and figure out
Be portions of what represents kind of the killer app aspects in this space
So it's it's pretty interesting when you really start thinking about all the opportunity
What are you gonna say something Darren?
Yeah, I was going to mention we had a conversation a while ago
We're talking about economics and I remember you're saying that you were you were in
in in college and and one of the economics professors or it was like saying
That the you know entire system is based on this one way and you completely had it
Completely different and the things that they were teaching in school were completely different than them
What are what how it actually is? So I just wanted to mention that
Yeah, no for sure. That's that's a really good point and to go back to I just had this idea now
But to go back to kind of what you mentioned about what differentiates change stats
I think another you know, very common platform used for analytics, especially social analytics
Which are surprisingly really really important this day in the age of you know, the internet and social media
so I'm talking about lunar crush and this application has gained a lot of traction over the past few years and
So I kind of wanted to talk about kind of the key differences there because lunar crush also does integrate
certain on-chain analytics and as I mentioned social analytics, right, so
social analytics will also be something we'll definitely be looking to integrate just because in the age of you know, the internet and
information and everything it's
Social media just I mean, I can't really put a word on it
it's arguably the most powerful thing in the world right now and part of it is
part of that is why I'm so bullish on galaxy as well, so
What I was saying with lunar crush. I think one of the key differences there is
currently we look at lunar crush and
Back then you could actually access it for free now
It's 99% closed off to just a paywall and everything, right?
So we don't exactly want to go that route. We want to keep it fairly open for
you know most end users even if
You aren't paying obviously if you do buy the like actual subscriptions just like with everything like trading view or crypto quant
You will get access to more data and priority to
but one thing we did really like about lunar crush is that they also have a lunar crush token and that's kind of
Sitting at the core of access in their ecosystem. So the stats token
It for anyone who wants to you know, take a deep dive on the stats token. I did pin our
white paper walkthrough up there if you guys want to give it a quick read but a
short TLDR is essentially it it's rather similar to the lunar crush token in the sense that
Everything you do on the stats platform ties back to the stats token
And so what this means is what I talked about with the voting before where you could vote for you know
Your favorite blockchain ecosystems whether that be like Hedera or XDC or you know
Maybe you really like dogecoin. Well, we can do that for you
just vote for your favorite chain and along with that as I mentioned before the different services around
Or I shouldn't say services but the different data that's going to be displayed and kind of the growing amount of
Different types of data. So I talked about how you could filter
Hedera consensus services versus normal transactions, right?
Again, you guys can vote for those integrations with the stats token and then if you're a business, for example
And I'll get more into our other services in a bit. We have an integration and an extraction service
That will also be denominated in the stats token
But as we know most businesses probably don't want to be holding and buying crypto tokens, right?
So what we've done is actually made it so that
To make the stats token even further at the core of our ecosystem
Every time there's a subscription whether that be, you know
a retail user subscribing to our platform for more premium features or an enterprise using an actual
white label dashboard of chain stats
That can all be paid in fiat or stats tokens
But at the end of the day our treasury will convert that into stats tokens
And this is because we want to keep a really free flowing
basically how the stats token is utilized and really kind of
emphasize on that core approach of utility within you know
Having them be used for payments or whatever else crypto coins are being used for these days
Well, maybe briefly before I kind of asked this question
But I you know looking at your guys's site as well. You mentioned this stats token
And anybody that wants to do their own research on that tokenizer did post up the white paper up there
But what so can you describe what chain guardians are as well?
So the NFT aspects and just kind of walk us throughout that a little bit because I know it's kind of the header
Yes, absolutely. That was the next one. I was gonna go into so thank you for bringing that up
But in short chain guardians are gonna be
Validator nodes in our ecosystem. And so these are actually NFTs
I can see we've got a we've actually got a couple chain guardians up in the space right now, but these NFTs
Essentially are your access paths into validating for ecosystem
So you could think of our validation as kind of a permission sense, right?
Because you're gonna in a permissionless ecosystem anyone can simply set up a node and begin validating and you know
Learning rewards and all that good stuff
Whereas with ours we wanted a little more kind of security and privacy behind these validators because at the end of the day
Transactions going back and forth or NFTs being minted on chain, right? This is the well it I should
Resay that but a lot of that data is going to be transactions and NFTs minted on chain
but these are gonna be from different ecosystems and the main use of these transactions are to
Research and keep up with the markets, right?
So if you're getting wrong or faulty data inputs or you have a malicious validator
that can really damage the
Worse. Yeah, that could lose a lot of people money if there is a malicious validator and the data
They're validating gets through that shouldn't have gone through right? So essentially these chain guardians are
Validators in our ecosystem you do have to sign up in KYC with us
Of course, that's done in a very secure way. But once your KYC didn't everything you have
You get airdropped and NFT and this NFT
essentially is your path into
Currently we have in a total pool of a hundred validators
that's what we're gonna start off with and as we open up to more blockchains and different ecosystems like
Say when we're at 20 or 30 different integrations
100 chain guardians aren't gonna do it and we're gonna have to scale and open up spots for more people to begin validating for us and
When you do get your chain guardian
You are actually also airdrop the collateral amount to begin validating to well
I shouldn't say begin validating quite yet
But once their application is officially launched you guys also do get airdrop the stats tokens and everything and the reason we've held off
On you know launching a token and airdropping them and everything
Is because of the fact of well, I shouldn't even have to say it but US regulations, right? So
We we know how Gary Gensler is with
everything so we've been very meticulous and careful around
Working with our legal team. We fortunately have a really great legal team
And we're taking all the precautions to make sure that we are launching a proper utility token and when it launches
There will actually be use cases that and users can use with it right out of the box
That's fantastic. I wanted to kind of move into
Kind of some of the other aspects that you've
Been really involved in for the past few years. So, you know, and I'm curious if there's any crossover or synergy. I mean
obviously, you know leveraging, you know kind of customizable and
Like data provenance like aspects coming coming into account with like sourcing like data and the analytics aspects is amazing
But when you get into like research aspects, which is what you've kind of really dove into and continue to dive into
I mean, I'm literally looking at a tweet where you know, you post that you kind of had a
Tutorial on over ledger that there was at Zapier
Integration or walkthrough and Gilbert Verde and of quant who does not interact with the public at all
Like comments underneath and just like nice work, you know
Do you see that there's gonna be like cross by the way if you have an inroad to Gilbert and he reached out to
You at this point in time
Send a nice word our way. I'd love to do an interview with quants
But do you see any like kind of crossover or synergy as far as the research aspects being integrated on top of the data analytics?
Dude, um, I I wanted to first off say on that comment by Gilbert literally made my morning like
I posted that video last night and I woke up to like a bunch of notifications
I'm like man what happened? I I had to do a double take to make sure it was actually Gilbert and I
Actually woke my girlfriend up at like 5 a.m. She fortunately was quite understanding
She realized I've been looking up to Gilbert for a long time now, but
To go back to your question. Yes
I completely do think that there is synergy with you know, the research that we do with chain stats
I'll just give a quick example. A lot of you guys may know that I do a lot of on chain research regarding
Guess it's quite fitting. I'm bringing up Casper as mad as coming on after but I'll use Casper as the example here
So I've traced a lot of their on-chain data regarding on Nucleus Finance on their testnet and mincing smart financial contracts
So I'll actually put one of these up here right now. So you guys can see what I'm talking about
This thread basically walks you through three different type of types of smart financial contracts Nucleus Finance is testing
So they're testing them denominated in US
Swedish francs and Indian rupees and
Not the easiest to find if I'm being honest like it took me a really long time to
you know find the contract package to Nucleus Finance and then checking through all the transactions and
Each specific NFT mint to see like the difference between them
like if we look at these it might just look like I clicked on three different transactions, but
I'm gonna be honest. It took me
Probably three hours to put all of that together just from filtering through all the different transactions looking through which ones are similar
which ones are different the timestamps between them and everything and
I'm sure a lot of you guys may have also seen me doing similar with QnT tokens as
there's a lot of interesting interactions with coinbase 10 and the QnT tokens that
do kind of represent their subscription service quite a lot and
I'm gonna be honest. I think at this point I can check right now, but
842 screenshots on my laptop currently of just ether scan transactions on QnT and this is because you can't save
anything on ether scan and
They just recently added the filter function, which does help a bit but because you can't save anything
I'm screen-shotting hundreds of transactions just to remember the wallet address and then the hash and everything
Because you know it might sound ironic
Blockchains immutable. Why are you screen-shotting all of this? Well because keep in mind
These are just random strings of numbers if you don't have these memorized with a photogenic memory
you're going to forget about them and
Good luck finding that a transaction on chain again
To answer your question. Yes. I certainly do think with on-chain research both for fundamental researchers like us
But also technical analysts. It'll be a great supplement to what we're already doing
I'm curious and maybe this is something that we would have to have offline but anything interesting with the
Subscription aspects that you found through through quant
Um, I found quite a few interesting ones. I have wrote threads about them. I think there was a
This wallet stopped accumulating
QnT tokens for the last little bit but there was a phase from like it started on Christmas Day and then went to like
January 8th, and I think in that time that wallet accumulated like
12,000 QnT tokens or something and it was done at like very precise intervals
So I do not think it was a retail wallet either. And yeah, I mean 11 11 12,000 QnT tokens
I don't think many retails are holding that much
Go ahead go ahead there. What other coins are you tracking that are that have
Anomalies like that that we may have not have heard of I saw a post about routers
There's apparently somebody accumulating a lot of router have you looked into any other?
Um, I haven't looked into all too much tokens wise
I've looked into various other block explorers, but outside of quant and I know
LCX also did have a similar behavior to QMT tokens where they would be bought
Like in a massive bulk amount and then sent towards like multiple different wallets in one batch
Transaction and the interesting thing about those wallets is they literally only hold that specific token
they don't even hold any ETH to send the tokens anywhere and so
Once they get those wallets, it just stays in there pretty much forever
well when I still had time to research and do all the deep dives and crap and
When I mean fundamental research, I mean like spending
Probably three days to this is back when coin market cap. I think had
Six maybe six thousand cryptos listed instead of ten million or whatever's on there right now
And it still took like probably three days to go through
Literally, probably the you know, the first 20 pages and filtering by volume and then searching and doing all that crap
Do you remember whenever I posted about router at like a three million dollar market cap like in 2021 like all those coins?
And you still see some of them around obviously some of them didn't but didn't make it
but if you do enough research, I mean that just goes to show like that's like
Tokenize, you know, this as well as we do
We're kind of getting off topic here a little bit
But as soon as you start seeing stuff on Twitter, I mean the the jigs not up
But that's not the optimal time to be finding stuff
You got to really kind of dig in and try to find what's actually being built kind of behind the scenes before
You start seeing people posting about it all over Twitter and things like that. But um
I think it's pretty much like well at first, you know
It was like a dollar than a pump but it's pretty much it had been sideways like it's stayed within
You know a pretty small market cap for a very long time. So I haven't looked into it at all recently
I see some like a left zero
Integrations there. I do know that, you know, just through the grapevine you hear stuff not just publicly on Twitter
But here's stuff, you know about quants and what's kind of being built behind the scenes and I won't certainly won't disclose
Maybe we do a space that's just total like, you know
here's the stuff I've heard behind the scenes on some of these assets people would love it, but um, I
Gotta ask you tokenizer as far as Casper's concern
Terrence laughing like there's just no way I can publicly talk about crap like that
Well, I mean that's that's like some some people say it during these spaces and and a lot of people
Didn't didn't pick up on it and they say the the the information on the spaces
We try to make clips to kind of highlight that but you know
Not everything gets picked up and people here here's a valuable information that's going on going on in these spaces
token I gotta ask you since you've done so much digging into
Casper before we bring meta on in like 15 minutes or so. I'm curious. Do you have any questions?
You know that we might be able to get through
Yeah, I've got I guess I have two or three questions. I'd love to ask
so the first one um, I'm sure this I'm sure this question has been brought up a lot but
I'm just curious on kind of how the recent issues with IP we so I'm sure a lot of us
know IP we filed for a chapter 11 bankruptcy, which
Not not to be mistaken with a chapter 7 a chapter 7 is when they actually liquidated all their assets IP
We just restructuring um, but even then I'm very curious to see if that would hinder kind of the initial goals
They had set out with the 25 million patents and everything
The second question would kind of just be regarding nucleus finance as I've been digging on them quite a bit
I'd be quite interested to know what exactly they're testing because
As we can see they're denominated in three different currencies at the moment
The one that really sticks out to me most is the one
regarding the Indian rupees as we know Casper's formed a partnership with the government of Telangana and
One of the features there was tokenized invoices and this does seem to line up pretty well with it
So, you know if that's something she could speak on that'd be awesome
And then for the other what were the other through I know US dollars Indian rupees and you said
Swedish Franks Swedish Franks. Okay. Yeah, and then the last question is just
I guess this would more so be a suggestion but I'd love for her to
You know connect and find some ways to work with chain stats
I think there's a lot of things we can do with on chain data within the Casper ecosystem
Especially with how industry focused they are right?
Like they're not so much define NFT is like your traditional layer ones
But they've got very industry purpose stuff like they have IPs. They've got financial contracts. They've got luxury
spirits and alcohol which believe it or not is a
300 billion dollar market. I
Will try to get all those questions sir. I put out a post yesterday
It is one of the things that we try to focus on as much as possible is to try to actually get some questions from the community
Obviously, we know that there's kind of them
The aspects of some things just can't be answered or they'll be they're gonna be answered and you know
Kind of a very straightforward way, but I will certainly ask about nucleus finance
Three different denominations tracking, you know kind of transactions US dollars
I mean if you can find the information out there and you've already published it. I mean for me, it's like, okay
I'll ask the question. It's not like getting speculative on price or any of that stuff anyways, but
You know certainly ask about IP we because I was gonna ask that anyways and kind of just a very how do you deal with polarizing information?
What is actually going on? Is it kind of disrupting anything? I know that there's free structure stuff like that
But yeah, I'll get those asked and I also I should note to any of the community that might be here that dropped comments
Under the post that I put out yesterday. I'm gonna try to get those questions through as well
Yeah, I mean outside of that dude
Well, and if I can make a connection don't forget about me
I mean I think I really do think that you're on to you know
Kind of a a great use case here and just understanding the work that you put in that people can publicly see
If you're involved directly with chain stats as far as what analytics are gonna be involved in the research aspects
I mean, I think that that's fantastic. But um
Yeah outside of that. I'm curious like if you have any kind of thoughts about
You know where we may be at regarding, you know
This cycle. Do you kind of believe in the cycle aspects?
Where you think we're at where we where you think we may be going. That'd be great
Yeah for sure. So I try not to look too much at it from a cycles perspective
but I think that's kind of hard to do when you're in this market and I
Do think everything is lining up quite well for you know
Another traditional cycle to play out right like for the past two years
We've been slammed with nothing but just fud and hate from retail
Like we went from Celsius crashing down to Luna to FTX which caused
Silvergate and then block by was just a massive chain reaction of bad news and then all of a sudden towards the end of
This year or I should say like not end of this year. This year just started. Um end of 2023
Kind of a flip of the switch in like more bullish news, right?
like we saw a bunch of other partnerships being announced like
For example, we saw that we saw more ready
I don't know if I should use the term regulatory clarity, but we did see you know ripple
beat the SEC for the most part and then we saw ripple acquire license in Singapore and
it Singapore Dubai can't remember where it was but
Beyond that we also saw a bunch of
Kind of news and discussions around real world asset tokenization now, right? Like we saw Larry Fink
Literally talking about tokenized assets and while we're on the topic of Larry Fink and BlackRock that also brings the point
of course the Bitcoin ETF, right which I mean, um, it
It did seem like it was just a big sell the news event, but I think the kind of meeting behind that
I don't think a lot of people are seeing it because it truly does show market maturity in a sense
right, like we've literally gone from
Speculative internet money to oh this stuff is used for drugs to oh, it's just a pump and dump to now like
There's official there's an official regulated market instrument for it now
Like really think about that for a second and realize just how much this space has matured over the past few years
Darren and I talked about that all the time that we've been desensitized
We've been desensitized to the adoption of crypto because of like just you know, you've for those of us that have been here for
Six seven years longer. I mean you really get run through the wringer like I'm
I'm of the opinion that if you're consistently in crypto for a year, you basically take four to five years off of your life
Like we we talked to those
ETF managers and they were saying that this opens the door for
Financial advisors to start telling grandma, you know, you could put Bitcoin into your portfolio
You know financial advisors are now telling their clients
They have the option to do that and the amount of liquidity has has grown like enormously
According to the ETF managers that we've interviewed so far
Yeah, what's interesting too? Is it like, you know, you try to like eke out as much information as you can like we had um
Who is head of research at ripple wax? Come on talking about like the AMM or you know automated market maker and
talking about digital ID and
Verifiable credentials and stuff like that and you know, it's really it's very easy to like pay attention to someone like the you know
Some of like the hottest trends or whatever they are in the space, you know
We can talk about AI or we could talk about tokenization or any of that stuff
But one of the questions we asked her token was like, you know as verifiable, you know credentials
And you know through like zero knowledge proofs or whatever that may be that like actually
Gets built in or baked into some of these ecosystems and as that level of compliance really
Is kind of nailed down, you know, I think that that you know
Does this allow traditional financial entities and banks to like start directly participating in you know
liquidity on like on chain and start really bringing real-world assets on chain and I
Yeah, I think you start getting into that conversation and like with like the convergence of all this technology and
That's that's when you start really being able to actually say all the money type stuff that you see on like hyper videos all the time
I mean, that's what it really occurs. So I think that we've seen that I don't know if you agree or not
It's okay, but it's pretty crazy to like where how far we've come
No, I 100% agree with all that and like the even the whole like all the money stuff
I know a lot of that is usually used as a click click bait headline titles, right? But I
I think when it it really depends on context, right? Like if you're saying oh all the money is gonna be on XRP
I'm not sure we're on the same page
but if you're saying all the money in terms of all the value and all the
Assets in our world that are both currently tangible and also ones that are intangible moving on chain
Yes, I absolutely do think that's gonna happen just because when you move assets onto the blockchain
it truly unlocks a new level of access and
actually truly realizing the value and assets right like
because we have Casper coming on I'll just use IPs as an example, but
a lot of you guys might not know but over 80% of the S&P 500 value is made from
intangible assets like IPs and so
Incredibly hard to access right now
You can't really access them if you're actually a retail investor and if you are an institution
It's still quite costly between middlemen with blockchain. We can directly create peer-to-peer access of
Yeah, I don't know I mean if anybody caught it but like even seeing like, you know, I don't know if it directly stems out of the
You know the NFT stuff or whatever directly, but I found like a kind of just an off-shoot
Document from like UCL so University College College of London like maybe a year ago
This is like talking about Hedera and in that document
It was basically just kind of an overview of some of the stuff going on like a recap
And it just said want kind of like one or two sentences and I forget the company's name
But obviously that was built on Hedera and it talked about, you know
the use case of like tokenizing intellectual property and supported by British Broadcasting Corp
So BBC and like it's just weird because like there's there's no other context around that
I did enough digging couldn't find any other old research about that and then like eight months later you see like Oh doctor who is like
tokenizing intellectual, you know
Doctor who's intellectual property is being tokenized in the form of X Y and Z on Hedera and stuff like that
so like you start really getting into a
Lot of the ways that you know
Some of these different things that may be intangible right now start coming on chain and adding in liquidity to different aspects you start
Then you can actually start saying the things that a lot of people just draw, you know in imagine imaginary circumstances
On a whiteboard at home to get you know YouTube views
I completely agree with that and just like the whole aspect of like just to go back to saying like everything going on chain
It's not just assets, right?
But it's pure we're moving more and more into an economy where we're truly relying on everything being data
Whether you think that's fundamentally good or bad doesn't really matter
It's kind of the way the world is moving to with digitalization
Just one example of this is like digital documents. For example, we talked about this with MLE TR
You could argue those paper documents are actually for the most part valueless, right? Like it's tied to a specific
Commodity or asset that has value but the papers themselves
they don't actually have value and the reason I'm bringing this up is because
There's a lot of things in this world, which are assets that do have value
but a lot of it doesn't have value but
This is still all moving on to the blockchain and just to go back to you know, tying the space to change that
That's kind of why we're choosing to build with this agnostic route of just pure on-chain data
Like it's not for a specific industry or a narrative like a lot of these projects. They have a narrative of you know
For example real-world assets or supply chains or finance CBDC's payments
Etc. As I was saying before at the end of the day. All of this will eventually just be on-chain data
Yeah, yep, yep, yep, well for those of us just joining right now
Do want to give a gigantic shout out to tokenizer?
Not only for all the value contributions that you put into this space from
Really actually doing research
And there's not that many
you know of us out there that have actually really done research and I know you're continuing to do it on a daily basis and
That a thousand percent deserves to be applauded in this space
But also from the chain stats aspect
kind of on-chain data analytics
By the people for the people love the ethos
I feel a lot of synergy and what we're trying to accomplish here as well
If you guys haven't checked out or don't follow tokenizer, please give him a follow. He's a great dude
He does great research and give chain stats to follow and pay attention to what's coming down the pipeline for these guys as well, man
Really appreciate it tokenizer. Thank you
Yeah, thank you guys for having me on and I'm looking forward to seeing what you guys get out of meta
She should be coming on soon, hey
Yeah, should be about two minutes or so Darren. Did you have anything?
Yeah, I just wanted to thank tokenizer. It's always a pleasure to speak with them
I haven't spoken to him in a while. So it was a pleasure to have this great conversation
and yeah, thanks for coming up and I have to look I have to admit that I didn't know too much about
Chain stats. So I'll have to dig in through it and see see what it's about. And yeah
Nice nice thing talking to you. I'm gonna have to might well
I definitely want to keep the conversation going for chain stats even behind the scenes, dude
And I mean, I would love to just you know, reimplement for those that aren't aware as we wait for meta here
tokenizer helped with a lot of the lighthouse report stuff that Genfinity was doing at the at the very beginning
Kind of you know, heavy deep dives into what's actually going on across the board. I know tokenizer tackled
And utility coins and ecosystems. I should also give a shout out to citizen of the future kind of deep diving into the grid aspects
I know digital documents and documentation is one of the things that you guys have worked on together in the past and I mean
tokenizer literally saying that like the you know hand signing documents whenever, you know for logistics purposes goes back to like the late
1800s and it's still enacted today. So it should just lead you to believe of what actually happens when all these
traditional, you know means of of moving things across the board whether it's data money or
How ripe these ecosystems are for digitization? So tokenizer, thank you so much
We'll probably take a minute or two here while we wait for meta and we'll go from there for sure
Thanks for having me on again guys. I'd love to come on again in the near future and best of luck with meta
Awesome. Thank you. I'm gonna move you guys down to listener and for those just joining
We do have the CTO or chief technology officer at Casper Labs and co-founder of Casper Labs met a parlour car today
To go over all things Casper Network 2023
Looking forward into 2024 as well. So super excited to have meta today. We've had meta on I
Think for like two bigger maybe two or three bigger cross chain panels last year certainly want to do that again
But this will be the first opportunity we've had to really do kind of a one
On one interview with meta to talk all things Casper. So looking forward to that
So bear with us as we allow for meta to come into the space and come up. So
That was a good one man, I love talking to token I was research a smart, dude
I'm looking forward to seeing what he does through chain stats. I'll have to check out a little bit more about chain sass
Darren he was well on the side. I so I know what project he's talking about and I certainly won't disclose that but I
Saw a DAG them post now. Everybody's looking at the all the interviews that we've done in the past
And it's like well, good luck because there's there's been a ton of them. So
Yeah, I mean there really has been a lot of stuff kind of leaked and like nobody picked it up and like
We'd have conversations about it and then we would make we would make highlights about it and just not phrase it properly
And the highlights wouldn't even do that. Well because people
for some reason that they want hype and
Rocketship emojis and all this crazy stuff and they would miss a clip that we took out of a two-hour
segment where somebody accidentally leaked a partnership or
Whatever and when we pull it out and show it to people and people wouldn't even pay attention to it then
What was it like I'm losing I'm really losing track of days to was it this Tuesday
I think we had bit tensor on or not bit tensor, but tauci. So subnet 8 on bit tensor
And I messaged you and I'm like dude
I posted bit and I don't you know
I should be in my patreon more probably but I posted bit tensor my page here on a December of
2022 and it was total crickets
It just goes to show I mean once you start seeing things, you know start to take off in the space
it's like that that's when people start to care, but um, if metas in the audience will bring you up and
I'll probably just mute myself for a second here and I will get started momentarily
Yeah, bit tensor was one of them I missed and it's it's duly because my bias, you know
sometimes you have to you have to be careful biases that you pick up early on because of
Whatever reason and it happens to me often
I'll pick up a bias for for some some little reason and
And then I won't follow up on something because there's so many opportunities and I'll end up missing an opportunity
So it's always it's always important to be humble about everything. I
Totally agree. I invited meta up
mean the other thing that always happens just naturally in the space as we get kind of get ourselves into these silos and echo
Don't know for anybody that follows, you know
And by the way, I should mention please like and you know give Genfinity a follow
We've interviewed tons of different ecosystems and it's very intentional
we obviously work directly with with a few ecosystems as well, but you know all of the cross-chain stuff and all of the
You know ecosystem outreach and stuff takes a ton of work behind the scenes and it's all kind of
It's all intentional to the point to kind of get people out of the mindset of just kind of being you know
Totally focused so that you can actually see the bigger picture and everything else involved. So
Yeah, okay. I'll quit rambling. Let's get we'll get meta up here in a second. We'll go from there
I think I think she just dropped off
All right. We do a quick mic check meta
To see how the mics on her. Yeah, you sound good. Okay, great. I'm sorry. I'm late. I recently went through a
Security review of all my accounts and I updated my password and so now I don't have X working on my phone
So I was I was fingers crossed that it's working on my Mac
So I'm here on my on my computer. Glad you guys can hear me. Well, yeah, it sounds good
And I know that yeah Twitter. I always find it so funny that we are kind of you know at the forefront of
Innovation and technology and crypto and web 3 and everything else and yet we're sitting here on
Twitter and x spaces which is the most web 2 platform that we can possibly be be doing this on meta
It's a pleasure to have you today
I know that we've had the opportunity to have you on a couple of different, you know
Cross-chain spaces in the past, but this will be I think the first time that we've had
Kind of the honor to have you here and do kind of a one-to-one interview about all things Casper that being said
You know matter that we do have kind of a kind of a wide audience here
And I always like to give the opportunity for the panel and the panel speaker and guest
To give a little bit of an intro of themselves
So if you'd be willing to maybe just give a background of yourself
In kind of the traditional realm
Kind of lead us down that path of what brought you into crypto and web 3 and tell us what kind of led you into
Your role at CTO at Casper labs as well as a co-founder of Casper labs. I'd be fantastic
Oh, yeah, absolutely very happy to do that. So my you know software journey started really really early
I started, you know when I was a preteen working with computers and software and this is in the dawn of the personal computing age
so I'm kind of dating myself here as I say how long I've been in the space and
I really started working professionally as a software engineer around the calm boom just prior to that actually I was building
software in the educational, you know educational tech ed tech space and then went to go work for
Pretty revolutionary company called mp3 calm and who had actually built infrastructure that rivaled
YouTube they actually had YouTube for music way back in 1999
so actually building web to
You know scalable highly scalable content delivery systems way before it was actually a thing
And you know, I learned so much when I was working there about, you know
We were doing iterative agile continuous integration continues deployment a lot of the things that our tables makes today
We're really not a thing in 1999
And so that was a fantastic experience
You know that I got to really enjoy the hype cycle of the dot-com boom and you know, it's still informs
And you know that experience informs me today even when I look at you know, how these
adoption cycles kind of you know kick off and
Go through their boom cycle go through their bus cycle and and you know the timelines run that
And so then after I worked at mp3 calm the dot-com bust happened. I actually took some time off
I am a mother of three children
And so I took some time off at some personal challenges in my life during that time and then I went back to work about
2006 again as a software engineer working for a company called Div X
Worked for Div X for a little bit and then pivoted quickly into web analytics
I went to go work for a company called website story that then was acquired and acquired again by
Omniture I got to work for the indomitable Josh James
Who founded Omniture and he's now the CEO of Domo serial entrepreneur of a multi-billion dollar companies?
Omniture was Omniture exited a 2.9 billion dollar valuation after being publicly traded into Adobe
Chain up and was being tapped for the head of quality for all of Adobe and I got bored because it was just a really big
Company, and I discovered that my my itch is always in the startup space
So I left Adobe and then went to go do some startups none of those were successful and then I landed at Avalara
had a chance to work for Scott McFarland and I was and Kevin Riegel's burger who's founder of epic or and
Avalara ultimately wound up being exited
You know with a public offering and then being taken private by vista equity for eight billion dollars
and Avalara does sales tax compliance and I was one of their senior directors of engineering and I managed at one point or
another all aspects of their business on the technology side and
After Avalara, I left again because it became a very large company
It had gotten to over 1,100 employees, and I felt that it was time for something new so left Avalara and
Actually came into the public blockchain space by way of a friend of mine
Who had me working who had gotten a contract to build an open public, you know
public open source layer one and I got that project up to testnet that was with them for about 14 months and
They had raised significant amount of money during the 2017 ICO boom
This was 2017 and when I joined the project and by 2018 they had failed to manage their books
And so when Bitcoin went from 20,000 to 3,000 dollars
They had never liquidated any of their treasury and so they basically ran out of money
you know by the August August time frame and
That's where I met Rinal and some of the other co-founders in Casper labs
who saw my work and prompted me to
You know basically take this idea. There was this idea of an enterprise blockchain in the open source project
But really to take this idea of an enterprise to build a blockchain for the enterprise that was public and decentralized that had all the features
That enterprise use so I was encouraged to take my experience and my learnings from all the years of developing and shipping production software
To build a layer one protocol that I would be able to use in these kinds of companies where I had worked
That's fantastic and appreciate kind of the overview as well. If you could maybe just give us
Kind of a little bit of insights and then we definitely want to get into the weeds here as well
A little bit of insight is as far as what sets, you know, Casper apart from other ecosystems out there from other layer ones
Why is Casper needed in this space as the space continues to grow? That'd be fantastic
Yeah, so we took a very different approach when we were building Casper
It's like the first thing is we took a very pragmatic approach in terms of what does it take to build
Release like to build on this infrastructure in a manner which it integrates into web to infrastructure
Seamlessly right we didn't take this approach where you have to tear down and built from scratch because I fundamentally believe
That all the web to infrastructure that is currently in place is not going to be tossed out
It's just not the way technology is built enterprises always adopt technology very very incrementally
They'll dip their toe in the water. They'll find one small pieces of piece an area of ROI
they will integrate that they will learn and they will iterate and
You know my roles and all of these very large multi-billion dollar companies was on the quality and delivery side and release management
I was ultimately responsible to make sure that I could service customer needs
Deliver features of value and I had to do it without
Causing any regressions or step backward right and what that meant is I needed to be able to
Fully control the software stack know exactly what I changed in the software stacks and what the outcome of that would be
I also had to have tight governance over what happened on the software stack
Authorization and you know there were many many release gates. You know this notion of governance is
Something that you know web 3 enthusiasts seem to think that blockchain governance is a novel idea, but it's actually not
Software is very very tightly governed in technology companies and in the enterprise very tightly governed
There are rules around how features get implemented and shipped
Stakeholder sign-off and all of that needs to be supported by all the layers of infrastructure
you have like you have to take care of the chief security officer as well as a chief technology officer as well as the
engineering director and the product managers in an organization and Casper is one of the only protocols that gives
That enforces a lot of those things at the protocol layer while giving contract authors the flexibility and control
They need to do what they have to do
You know as as stakeholders of their software
That's fantastic. I kind of want to ask you before we get into this year
Kind of the road traveled thus far and just kind of looking through
2023 milestones and achievements I can see you know the launch of the the dev portal
Which I'm sure is very close to heart for you, and you know developer rewards and community initiatives
Can you maybe just walk us through?
You know kind of the road traveled thus far the state of the ecosystem as it is as it is right now as well as maybe
Any milestones and achievements that really stick out to you as far as the Casper ecosystem to date?
Yeah, definitely you know so it's you know building a layer one protocol with a bespoke VM
It's very challenging because you can't piggyback off of the etherium
Ecosystem because we chose to not go with the EVM and our reasons for not going with the EVM are very very explicit
The etherium virtual machine both in terms of how you work with the etherium virtual machine
And what you need to do in the enterprise it really doesn't integrate into the existing web to stack
The etherium virtual machine you know you can't run EVM on a local MacBook
Right you need a full you need an etherium node, or you need an emulator like truffle and ganache and those simple that infrastructure
Simply does not work with continuous. You know present-day tooling
It's an add-on, and it's a hack
It's something that had to be thought of after the fact and so we chose web assembly which came from the wc
3c consortium and web assembly does work with all things web to write
And that's why the Casper VM is web assembly only
Because again in order to integrate with the web to stack you need a web to execution engine, and that's what wasm is
It also you know dovetails tightly into
Everything else right when you think of web to infrastructure
So when you have to build an ecosystem around you know web assembly only
Right there's a few web assembly specific protocols
But EVM by and large is you know the lion's share of present-day today
We don't believe that's going to be the long-term play
So we are in this with a very long-term outlook that web assembly will ultimately be the adopted platform
So we've had to build a lot of our ecosystem from scratch and that does take time
But I'm happy to report you know some of the big
Milestones we've hit is we have decentralized exchanges on Casper. We have defi. We have liquid staking
We have bridges into you know other other ecosystems namely etheria polka dot Solana all these ecosystems. We have bridges into
We have a fantastic wallet infrastructure now and most recently you know CSP r.clique and CSP r.cloud
international or make services has
Provided easy to use you know a developer infrastructure to allow them to integrate wallet
You know multi wallet right not just a single wallet, but multiple walls, so it's decentralized
So trying to build out an ecosystem that is both decentralized first because that's very important to us and secure these things take time
But we have we've made some great miles to amino made some great inroads into having that all set up I
Kind of want to ask. I'm maybe just a couple more kind of primer questions here as well like looking at I
You mentioned the expanding ecosystem as well and certainly the user experience from the from the wallet aspect
Expected aspect is extremely important in that regard looking at 2023. You know
The grant committee you know receiving you know X amount of applications like hundreds and hundreds
I think 600 grant applications from the from what I found last year 45 grants being been rewarded as well
Can you maybe just talk or maybe expand a little bit on?
You know the the growth of the actual ecosystem builders within the ecosystem and what you've seen to date
And then I and then I want to get into kind of where we're at now because I know that you guys just pushed a new
Update and things like that. Yeah for sure so lots of you know the Casper Association has been focused a lot on
Infrastructure right so building that some of the wrapper infrastructure around the around the core Casper protocol right so
Odra dev is a fantastic developer framework that makes Casper feel very solidity like so there's a lot of help or functions
The Casper Association is going to be highlighting the order dev framework Maciez Alinsky who was one of the
What I call the ecosystem developers at Casper Labs
Broke out on his own stepped out on his own to build Audra and we think it's a fantastic framework that streamlines and simplifies
Smart contract creation for developers and makes building a lot of this infrastructure
So that's one of the one of the key grants makes infrastructure for CSPR dot cloud
That provides all the event data right and really easy to use API's to get data out of the mainnet
Out of the the Casper protocol additionally
We've had grants around seal storage that provides a secure minting environment, right?
You know NFT holders are concerned about digital rights management. And so we have some projects that are talking
Talking that we're talking to that we're working with that want to build art registries on Casper
IP we of course, you know is having some challenges
But they are also going to use some of those securing minting environments to meet their patents on Casper as well
The focus for the association has been really around those that infrastructure to make it easier and more streamlined for
developers to build on Casper
The Casper protocol is very very feature-rich
But it takes time to wrap your head around
Some of the you know around some of the capabilities of the underlying protocol make is re is going to is
Releasing a wallet that provides, you know, social key recovery and multi-signature which are native capabilities in Casper
But you know you want to make it accessible to users and builders alike, right?
So they are building some of those that infrastructure and those helper API's so that it's easy to take advantage of the protocols underlying features
Metta, can you explain kind of what happened with I believe there is a fork of the Casper blockchain
For the smart smart city in China
Can you kind of like tell us what happened with that with that project and and what was going on with it?
Yeah, so we built we built, you know what we call the open permission blockchain infrastructure, you know initiative in collaboration with BSN
And so what happened is is that BSN themselves, you know
The OPB initiative really didn't get that much traction full stop from red date technology
So they informed us that they were they themselves were actually shutting down shutting down the OPB initiative. That's what happened there
It wasn't anything that Casper was you know kicked out or it didn't work or anything anything like that
You know BSN OPB itself didn't really get didn't really get that much traction
Does Casper specifically have something for smart city infrastructure?
At this time. I am not aware if Casper has anything
There's nothing that I am managing actively for smart city infrastructure in China
That doesn't mean they couldn't be using a fork of Casper or they couldn't because they know clearly how to deploy Casper
But I am NOT actively involved in anything there
Casper god, I just said Casper meta
I know that you guys recently. Well, this was literally just like over the past 24 hours push the peregrine update and
Just looking through the 2024 roadmap for you guys
I mean peregrine from what I'm seeing is obviously, you know reduced times and latency and
Block time as well as validate, you know reduce validator fees
can you maybe just walk us through a little bit of what that what peregrine represents for the ecosystem then the next step Juliet and then
Finally kind of Casper 2.0 and the Condor release and what that's going to represent for the ecosystem as a whole and maybe I know
timelines are very very difficult to nail down but just kind of give us an idea of where everything's at now that you guys just
Pushed this most recent update. Yeah, definitely. So as everybody, you know understands here or if you don't like I can quickly tell you like
You know these blockchain systems these public layer once they are highly highly complex systems, right?
The reason they're so secure is because they they they run in the quote-unquote the wild
You look at any web to environment. It's a locked down
Firewalled environment which tightly governed tightly controlled tightly managed blockchain systems are just the opposite of that
Transact anything on the network
If these touring complete especially the smart contract smart contracting blockchains where you can do virtually any kind of computation
And so ensuring that they are up perform it secure
And you aren't introducing any regression type bugs means you have to be very very judicious during your testing phase, right?
and so we don't propose an upgrade until we are confident at Casper labs that the release is ready for prime time and
These these software updates will go through sometimes months of testing
under very specific targeted load scenarios and many many scenarios
You know, we are spinning inside of AWS networks of over 120 nodes to simulate
What what mainnet looks like and we run extensive tests against them
so I think it's important for the community to know that it's
Incredibly important for us that every single release must do no harm
And we will test the release as long as we need to test the release until we are absolutely confident of that
So with the peregrine release, yes, we shorten the block times by you know
we halved of the block times block times went from 32 seconds to 16 seconds and the
Formal methods in the highway protocol, which is the CBC Casper
They constrain us that we can only reduce block times by half
That's a core piece of the consensus protocol and the focus has been on performance because we want to leapfrog
With zoo consensus all the way down to four second blocks
Two second blocks or potentially even one second blocks and in order to do that
We need to make sure that the entire system can function at those block times not just consensus
Blockchain systems are a lot more than their consensus mechanism, you know
There's the virtual machine that you need to think about there's a deploy buffer. There's gossiping. There's network communications
All of these things need to be running very very optimally and very very secure with with tight deterministic guarantees
And I think it's interesting. We're gonna update
Yeah, no, please go ahead. I
I'll drop in a yes there, you know, we've seen that there are some networks that consider
Transactions per second just the network itself coming to consensus, but please go ahead. I we won't elaborate on that guy
Yeah, I know exactly so we are very we are very particular in our definition of a transaction
Transaction is a piece of user user generated work
Transaction is not a consensus message in our in our semantics and when we talk about a transaction
it is user work that the network is doing for a user and so
We take a very conservative approach in terms of our you know throughput and latency
And so, you know when you think about the whole system, right the entire system needs to function that fast and
Deterministically insecure and so peregrine we shorten block times to 16 seconds in order to shorten block times to 16 seconds
We have tested the network and confirmed that it's stable at 8 seconds
And we release at 16 seconds because again up time is the most important thing, right?
Security uptime robustness and then finally performance. That's our that's our prioritization. It will always remain that way and
Our goal right is to continue driving down
Latency, you know time to inclusion as we get closer to Condor
So the Juliet release which is scheduled after peregrine
represented a re-pricing of gas costs pretty pleased that we were able to you know
Keep maintain security and reduce costs, which is fantastic. It also included
Several performance improvements as well as the shortened block time
Juliet we're going to be introducing a new networking layer
We're contributing to the open source community by creating a networking protocol
That can be used by other blockchains called Juliet. It'll be released as a separate rust crate
As we were building Casper, we found that there wasn't a solid
networking layer that we could use in the protocol and
So, you know, we want to contribute to the open source community by creating a very robust and secure networking
network communications protocol that
Actually, if if a node becomes Byzantine and attempts to DOS another network another node in the network
The node itself a run out of memory. So it is provably secure, right? So I'm very excited about this
This Juliet release has been a long time in the coming long time in the making and we're hoping to release that to mainnet
By early March, it's in testing right now
We are working through issues
And and findings in our test scenarios. And so yeah, once it's live on testnet
that's when you guys know it's imminent, but may I ask you about wise key and
The partnership that that's going on with wise key and just what's going on with them
Yeah, certainly so, you know wise key is has been a partner of us they worked on wise.art they've also
You know, they are they have integrated IOT devices, right?
we did the first satellite mint out of space out of an NFT of an NFT on the Casper protocol and
Yeah, you can go to wise.art and you'll see that there are still NFTs on Casper there and they continue to be a value
partner of the ecosystem I
Want to ask you meta because I did poll kind of the audience yesterday on some questions and it's surrounding Condor
One individual had just a little bit of confusion, I think
But then it looked like there was kind of a breakdown here as well
This is from Brando. Somebody was basically asking if there's no Casper consumption for gas and transactions
What's the utility of Casper within the ecosystem for Condor at least how to enterprises what the enterprises have to you know
Have to do to run an application on the network
Do they have to have it on their balance sheet things like that?
Can you maybe just walk us through kind of what Casper 2.0 or you know?
AKA Condor represents for the ecosystem whenever that does release
Yeah, so I think there is a lot of confusion on the new gas mechanism with Condor and we'll be putting out some
Some blog posts and some visualizations and some some analysis in terms of you know
What we believe is going to happen not I can't talk about token price because that is completely orthogonal to the technology
But what I can talk about is, you know
What how will what are the mechanics of of the and what are the security guarantees around this, right? So
Will still be required to secure transactions on the network, right?
Because so what is ultimately the purpose of gas fees on any blockchain network?
The purpose of gas fees is to make a DOS attack expensive
Fundamentally that what is that's what it's about, right?
That means I can't spam the network with useless transactions at no cost, right in order to use the network
I must be engaging in real
Valuable work, right? I'm using the network
for something that I'm trying to
It's it's a legitimate use of the network versus a malicious use of the network
And so when you think about any kind of gas fees, that's that's the underlying purpose. That's the real purpose, right?
There's been plenty of research around
Transaction fees and the security of consensus and transaction fees have been shown
Through many research papers that they don't contribute to the security of consensus
So what transaction fees are for are to prevent somebody from filling up a block with just useless spam attacks
So if you want to get space in a block, you got to pay for it. And
So the way we look at it is if you want to interact with the Casper network
There's two ways you can interact with the Casper network
The first way you interact with the Casper network is you participate in consensus by locking your stake through a staking transaction
In exchange for locking your stake in a staking transaction the protocol rewards you right in terms of you know
The second way you interact with the network is you use the network to process a transaction and
In exchange for this value. You have to lock Casper for a period of time in protocol and then exchange for that
Your transaction is processed and committed to global state
So those are the two ways in which you interact with the network
now typically in most blockchains you
Give your token and the token gets transmitted to a validator and it leaves your wallet completely and
Really the tokens just go to these validators which results in even more centralization of the token
around the participants in the network namely the validators and
What we believed is that there is a better way to do this and the better way to do it is to lock the CSP
One we would have to raise the cost so it'll it'll take more CSP are
to process a transaction, but what happens is that CSP R is locked for a
In like a duration in protocol and the amount of available CSP are in a given wallet
Will slowly increase over time?
So that the user can now process another transaction
So what this does is it turns
The wallet and the wallet if with Condor could either be a personal wallet for an account or it could be a wallet for
Addressable entities the new notion of addressable entity, which means it's either an account or contract both of them will have purses
so in theory contracts will be able to pay for their own execution and
Contracts will be able to securely hold some CSP R to fund their own operations
After a locked amount of time a specific amount of time to find in protocol same for everybody
That CSP R will become back as available balance
There'll be a locked balance and available balance in the purse and so the available balance is what can be used for more
Transactions and the locked balance is what is being held in protocol for security reasons this way
the an attacker would need to acquire a very very very large amount of CSP R in order to lock blocks up a
Additionally if they decide to fill up a specific swim lane in Casper a specific transaction type because Casper
Blocks will have dedicated
capacity for key work that needs to be done in protocol if
They decide to try to lock up a swim lane the cost for those transactions meaning the amount of CSP R
They have to lock will also increase right making an indefinite attack harder and harder and harder for them to
Execute requiring them to accumulate more and more and more available CSP R within their wallet
So the you know the the mechanics of this model as I've indicated
They're it's complex right it's a complicated difficult problem to solve and so we'll be putting out you know
Content to help the entire community understand, you know, what are the implications to contract authors?
What are the implications to you know, how much you know token would you need it theoretically in order to you know fuel?
100 transactions a week as an example of specific type right and some kind of estimators and calculators to help people understand
Then I could you not can you talk about the IBM artificial intelligence thing that you set up
Certainly, what do you what do you folks want to know like we are doing a partnership like not a partnership but a co-development initiative
We are working to build in a great Casper into the Watson X governance product
And platform so what will happen is the Watson X governance?
Platform will be integrated with the public Casper blockchain
There will be contracts that enterprises will use
checkpoint their AIs in terms of the training sets and the data sets that they're using to train their AI and they will get
Guarantees around hey, this is the data set that was used to train this AI
This is the result of that data set right and they'll be able to use
The Casper protocol as an auditing tool to verify
And validate that a specific AI has been trained on a specific data set
That's an active development right now. No, it's okay. It's an active development right now
We have about 30 to 35 interested beta beta participants. There will be a public beta program for this product
And so it'll be a consortium of you know enterprises that will be engaging to help us co-develop this product
We're really excited about it. Sorry. Sorry for blurring out the the question. No, I did I just
Just blurt stuff out. So I apologize for the phrasing of the question
I'm curious your thought process meta and I like the community had some questions as well that I kind of want to get through
But we talk about you know AI and I'm sure you kind of being at the forefront of you know tech trends for four years
I'm sure you have some interesting thoughts around the way that some of the this these different technologies start to converge
And there's certainly the polarizing or trending ones
Which I think AI we have kind of seen trending recently we can think about like tokenization and then it gets really interesting
You start thinking about like verifiable credentials and all the other stuff that ties into it. But from the AI standpoint
What are your thoughts around, you know?
What we see in blockchain normally versus you know
Where there might be overlap with traditional business and how they leverage things like AI
Yeah, definitely so, you know AI is not a new technology, right AI has been around, you know for over 20 years
I mean I worked in natural language processing systems back in 2001, right where people you know
Use are using a eyes for resume scanning as an example is something that I worked on
You know Falcon fraud that does your FICO score that's that's built using AI type, you know
Technology and so what caused this AI boom really was a user experience change, right?
And I have found that that's that's the same thing that happened with the internet
The internet was around for over 20 years with DARPA and it wasn't until the advent of a browser
Which was the user experience change that the internet really took off, right?
and then of course silicon had a huge role to play when when mobile came on board is when the internet really became ubiquitous in
Our lives is the advent of smartphones and a high-speed connectivity and ubiquitous Wi-Fi ubiquitous 5g
And I think you know what we're seeing happening
No, it's interesting too. We had
Matai from Alliance block on like a month or two ago and they were at a conference and they were basically saying that like
665 hundred or seven thousand startups in AI. I think in 2024 were kind of
What's coming down the pipeline here, which is which is a crazy number
It is it is and the main reason for it is obviously silicon processing power made AI
Very very user friendly and usable and scalable and affordable and achievable like all those things
Had a role to play but AI has been is not a new technology, right?
And I feel like these adoption curves you build and build and build and build for many many many years
I feel that you know blockchain technology web 3 technology and the convergence of AI
Which you're gonna find is all these technologies are going to converge together, right?
Which is it's kind of a new thing typically or in the past we've seen a
single technology kind of come together
You know gain adoption and become go broad
But like we saw the mobile and internet come together
right and the mobile internet and 5g come together and you saw this explosion of
Right like putting a GPS in everybody's hand opened up a whole floodgate of capabilities that were not possible before
I think you're gonna see the same thing happen with web 3
You know and AI I think you're gonna see a convergence of between networking capabilities
I think you'll see when you see fiber optic in the last mile and broad availability of fiber optic
That's gonna really drive up performance on all of these networks
And in addition to like, you know
Just the abilities of these VMS and their cake processing capability will allow, you know blockchain technology to go mainstream
And I think I don't know what that future looks like
I can't imagine what's gonna happen in 10 or 15 years or what is that? What is that user experience?
I suspect it's gonna be wallet technology the ability to have a very streamlined
frictionless user experience, which is what the gasless transactions try to do in Casper, right that user experience
Component is going to be is what's going to be critical to spike adoption, right?
Making it so you can work with a contract without needing token. I think is
Fundamentally critical and our gasless, you know this notion of quote-unquote gasless
Transactions and contracts that pay for their own computation. I think it's gonna play a huge role in streamlining that UX
I've got some community questions. I've got one last question here
I know that we've got 20 minutes left so I might do a little bit of a rapid fire fire with you here in a
Second, but I saw that you guys are obviously at Davos
Obviously for those not aware, you know the world economic forum
Location and the annual convention aspects all things involved with that
you were sitting on a panel with
Dr. Lehman Baird who's obviously the author of the you know hashcraft distributed consensus algorithm co-founder of Hedera now sits its world's labs
you were also on a panel with president of the
Solana Foundation and chief scientist at DFINITY
When you look at like we talked about technology converging and I I know this is probably we could go on for this for 30 minutes
Or an hour, but if you can maybe just give us a brief summary of like as these technologies converge
How important it is or what you view to be kind of the patchwork of interoperability that is going to occur between networks?
And how important like I like the term co-op petition
How important you feel like co-op petition is going to be between these different ecosystems? I can't hear anyone
Can you I can hear you. Can you hear me there? I can hear both of you
Can you hear me Matta? Sorry?
Matta you're coming in and out before maybe maybe you need to leave and come back in
It may have been the the laptop, too
Let's see if she hops back up because I she was breaking up for like 10 minutes there
Just when we start getting into the juicy stuff
You know what the wise key integration I believe had to do with it was something
Wise key to generate the first ever NFT from space with the launch of wise key sat on SpaceX
Let's do a retest now, can you hear me Matta?
Darren you go back to that one in just a second
But the what I kind of that was asking about co-op petition patchwork of interoperability Davos who were sitting on a panel
You know yourself chief scientist at DFINITY as well as a president of the Solana foundation
do you believe that like as
The innovation kind of grows and as you know
The technology kind of continues to develop there's going to be like a patchwork of interoperability and how important is like
Co-op petition in that regard between these different, you know ecosystems and networks
Yeah, like I definitely believe that there will be that that
Standards will emerge. I feel like we're still pretty early in in the adoption cycle, right and I feel like just like we saw
Standards emerge around browsers for the internet. I feel like you'll see standards emerge in web 3
But I feel we are gonna still are very very early
No, I feel like we still are very very early in the overall adoption curve and those standards will emerge over time
I'm gonna I'm gonna go through rapid fire right now as well with you a little bit because I want to make sure I get
To the community questions here. I think
You know, we're all in the space and when news comes out
I think it's sometimes like very polarizing and news for the sake of news
In some regards, but can you maybe just address briefly the IP we aspects I know tokenizing
Patents and intellectual property. It was obviously a gigantic use case
And we've kind of seen come about that there's there's kind of just a restructure internally
Has anything slowed down in that regard as far as the use case?
If you could maybe just share your thoughts briefly, that'd be great
Yeah, look, you know, I think the use case stands on its own two feet, right I think there's merit in the use case
Internal information of IP we because I don't have much what I can tell you is that they have customers, right?
It's not like they don't have customers. They have customers. They are making a strategic they they are
Trying to operate the company within the constraints that they have and they're making strategic business decisions, right?
I wouldn't I wouldn't you know
Take a broad brush and say that the use case is bad or that they intend to not work with Casper
I feel that we need to you know
Give IP we the space for them to sort out their operations and when the time is right
They remain partners of Casper. I haven't heard anything to indicate otherwise, right?
It's unfortunate that they haven't done the minting as yet, but that's going to be driven by their own internal roadmap, right?
So that's all I can say about the map, right? Is that is that yep. Yep. Thank you very much. I appreciate you
Answering that we just had we had I don't know if you're familiar with the account
But tokenizer is like a fantastic researcher and I told him I'd give him a shout out there
They're building out on chain data analytics for chain stats and he's been
deep diving, you know a bunch of ecosystems for a while and he
He asked if we could touch base a little bit on nucleus finance and smart fine smart financial contracts
He did enough digging to find that like it seems to be that there's like three assets involved right now US dollars Swedish francs and Indian
Can you maybe just touch base? He wants to know what's being built or what's being tested?
I know that you probably can't get super into the weeds with a lot of different things right now
But um, if you could maybe just give us an overview and any thoughts on some of what he found that would be fantastic
Yeah, so you can go ahead and take a look at the testnet block explorer and you'll see nucleus finance has
Contracts there. There's over 13,000 contracts that are deployed on testnet and many of them have active usage on testnet, right?
Against Casper the nucleus finance products as I understand it
There's a fair bit of interest from traditional financial institutions around bonds, right?
So that's probably where you're seeing some of the interest around these different, you know
I don't know what you want to call it Fiat instruments
but it's really around bond bond vehicles and bond related products and
Remember I told you that enterprises will dip their toe in the water right and they're going to start with the lowest risk
Simplest thing and that's a bond and so that's what we're seeing
You know in terms of adoption from financial institutions around some of the nucleus finance smart financial contracts offering
Awesome, thank you meta. Another question is that I had kind of down in the comment section was
You know if you could touch base potentially on any current enterprise level, you know use cases that are kind of live right now
Are there any in the pipeline as far as deploying, you know smart upgradeable smart contracts things like that?
And I know that there's obviously NDAs in place
But if you could kind of just give us an overview of what those relationships currently look like
Definitely so, you know, we are talking to some folks that are that are grant recipients from the Casper Casper Network
We're talking to a company called equity bricks. They're based out of Seattle
They are going to be doing tokenization of real-world assets namely real estate. They are very excited
They're building on Casper and they have a multiple other
businesses that they want to use
Casper labs has built an application
You know, it's an integration. It's it's basically an open integration with Instagram on the meta platform that allows
Small brick-and-mortar businesses to use a rewards and point mechanism
I'm in talks with the Casper Association to see how we can leverage that
We're going to be entering the the open beta with meta here shortly on that. We're going into testing right now. We're also
Those of you that aren't familiar with X prize
X prize is probably going to start doing some marketing here over the next couple of weeks around their community debt governance Dow
If you noticed around their science vision earring
Summit that happened not too long ago. They used
Authorization NFTs minted on Casper and the intention is to expand that to build out
You know governance frameworks and we're partnering with Vadam on that and Vadam for those of you know, Eric Pouye
He was kind of the guy that quote-unquote invented the NFT
It's a little bit of a Craig Wright story in terms of who invented the NFT
Satoshi versus Craig White thing
so there's a couple of people that like to take credit for the creation of the NFT and Eric is one of them and he's a
brilliant technologist and
You know Vadam has built some really really interesting stuff and they are talking to several enterprises about their product offering and again
That's integrated with Casper
So there's some very interesting things that the ecosystem is building enterprises are slow to move so it takes time, right?
All these things take time. We believe yeah, a lot of projects that are
Dissatisfied with their current layer ones and will want to move to Casper post Condor update
Awesome, and I apologize for the kind of the overlap here because I know like that we're getting a little bit of kind of still
The Twitter connection. So we appreciate you bearing with us meta
And it's interesting you bring that up as far as enterprises being slow to move
I mean, I've done enough of these interviews where like, you know
Hearing of use cases that have proof of concepts
That started, you know three or four years ago
That were we may just start to see, you know
Some of those kind of actually going live and to the you know in the public eye like this year in 2024
Which is like crazy like that's the type of speed sometimes that we're talking about
Yeah, definitely, you know and it takes time these these things, you know building and getting traction takes time like, you know
Dr. Adele emissary has been involved with Casper also for like three years and he's doing his impact NFTs
Right and this is where you you know to create an impact
You donate either your time or your resources and an exchange for that you get this high impact NFT
And he's building some fantastic stuff and building out collaborations and deals and you know
drop linked commerce has built some incredible technology for decentralized Shopify on Casper and now is taking that to work with
Enterprises on their retail track and trace meta cast has been building for two years
And they now have multiple customers that are using Casper for track and trace
Both either against mainnet or private instance of Casper these things take a long time to build right to
To develop the technology to get those meetings to you know, demonstrate the value. So it's it's a long play
It's not like, you know, it's gonna happen in a few months, right nice things. Take time
No, what excites you the most about the future, you know, we've seen we've seen trends like or calls
We've seen trends like defy NFTs and the list goes on and on
What do you think is is a trend that nobody is looking at that?
You think is going to be really popular and take take the crypto world by storm
My feeling is the trend you're gonna see is you're gonna start seeing
You know mainstream tooling starting to integrate web 3 infrastructure
Right. So for example, you know, you may start seeing things like, you know Shopify
Accepting, you know USDC for payments and those kinds of things where the tools that everyday people, you know everyday quote-unquote software
Companies use starting to see that come online
I'm also keeping a close eye on regulation a lot of people don't know this
But there was a regulatory change that prompted the entire comm boom
Until a regulatory change is made you were not allowed to transact on the internet. You couldn't conduct e-commerce transactions
it wasn't allowed right and
Those kinds of changes are I think are going to are going to be things that I'm really excited about is to see
What happens both from a regulatory environment perspective as well as a mainstream like tooling tools?
adopting the underlying infrastructure perspective I
Last question here and I don't know
I mean we talking about kind of the staking aspects one individual did ask are there are there plans like ever in the future?
Have it been has it been discussed to potentially speed up the ability to you know
Once you lock up Casper to unstate Casper things like that. Like I'm assuming
obviously, there's lockup periods and things like that, but is there anything in the works maybe for like the future like long-term to
you know shorten that time frame or
Is that not being considered right now?
It's not being considered right now namely because it's the security
You know when you you know andres flack fackler who was the author one of the authors of highway?
And one of the consensus engineers in the past had a very strong
opinion that you needed to keep
You needed to have a lockup period in order to maintain the security of consensus, right?
And so while transaction fees don't contribute to the security of consensus
Lockups do right and so, you know in response to the community's request to streamline, you know
Switching from one validator to another we did you know offer this re-delegate, you know
Feature that enabled people to switch their stake from one validator to another, you know
But you still had to go through the unbonding period
So the unbonding period is is really important for consensus security. So we don't we do not have plans on changing it
Awesome kind of in the same vein as Darren here, you know, I always like to make sure that we didn't miss anything
I feel like we touched on 2023 and the road traveled thus far
I feel like we touched on you know, your thoughts as far as you know
Coopetition and kind of this patchwork of interoperability. We touched on
The IP we stuff a little bit we touched on defy
I know that which which you know, you guys have put out some recent blog posts about as well and
Peregrine going live obviously so congratulations on the smooth
Transition into the upgrade obviously reducing block time and thank you for actually, you know
I wasn't aware of the fact that you guys tested at eight second block times to go live with 16 second block time
So that was news to me and that's that's awesome
is there anything that we might have missed that you kind of wanted to touch base on as we kind of ramp it down and
Thank you for bearing with us. Obviously, I know sometimes joining a Twitter space on
Mac or laptop as most most of us have experienced is not optimal. So we really do appreciate it
Yeah, I'm sorry that I was I was a minute or so late
You know, like so I think I believe that you know, even today today even Casper offers really fantastic
capabilities for small businesses and enterprises alike to use right? So if you're building a project and
You want to build for the future right for a protocol that is going to give you the flexibility and control that you need
We're here. Absolutely to support you in your desires to go live, right?
So the association is focused a lot on gaming
The association is focused a lot on gaming and we're at Casper labs focused on enterprise adoption and real products that are gonna
That are going to under use the underlying technology again that user experience and making it easy for
Enterprises to engage with with blockchain technology is going to be the linchpin. That's going to be the key for mass adoption
Awesome. Well for those just you know that are that have stuck with us today and I you know
We have had a couple of audio issues
Heads up next Monday. We have an Alliance block next aerospace. We have a Hedera say Network cross-chain space
We have a flare networks and then constellation space on Thursday as well
We've had energy web on this month. We just had bit tensor on this month
It is certainly a pleasure to be able to have met a parlour car
Who is the CTO of Casper labs and co-founder of Casper labs up here with us meta?
Like I said before we've had the opportunity to bring you on a couple of cross-chain ones
But really a pleasure to be able to have you on here
Kind of one-to-one for an interview and we got to do this again because you're such a wealth of knowledge and just really appreciate an honor
You know, I kind of have the honor to have you on today. Just really really appreciate it. Thank you so much meta
Thank you so much for having me on and yeah
I'm available if you guys ever if any of your listeners ever want to DM me or reach out
Don't hesitate to reach me out. You can find me on telegram. You can find me on Twitter
Don't hesitate to ping me happy to talk
Thank you guys so much we will see you guys next time
Thank you Darren for co-hosting as always and meta
We will definitely bring you back on in the future big cross-chain space next time or whatever whatever you guys want to do