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CEX vs DEX liquidity and Plato’s cave
Recorded: Dec. 1, 2025 Duration: 0:41:49Space Recording
Short Summary
In a recent discussion, crypto enthusiasts explored the implications of centralized exchange failures, the emerging trend of decentralized exchanges, and the critical need for on-chain trading to enhance market integrity. Key insights included the concept of 'drop 10' liquidity, the decline in token values due to lack of M&A opportunities, and the philosophical parallels drawn from Plato's Cave regarding market perceptions.
Full Transcription
Music All right, all right, we're going to start here in a second and waiting for one or two
people to join in.
We got an idea today.
We're going to go over the idea of Plato's Cave.
Oh, Michael, nice.
Michael joining in.
We have a co-founder of Alpha Growth, Joe Bjornsson, coming in too hot.
Let's see if he gets in here quickly.
All right. hot see if he gets in here quickly all right he wants to come up and speak that's awesome um starting starting oh yeah come on up and speak right to speak cool Cool, cool, cool.
Let's set the context here.
There's a lot of talk about numbers and trading and things around like hyperliquid and centralized exchanges around 1010 really kind of fracturing, shaking the market out.
fracturing, shaking the market out. And when you get to this, this downfall of when the biggest
centralized exchange fails, their, their ADL, their, their, you know, there was only sales only
you weren't able to buy for about 15 to 20 minutes. If you kind of go through the reports and the
records and everything for about like 20 minutes the largest centralized exchange in the world you could only sell and
that basically created a crazy dip that may or may not have stopped the bull market
but effectively made a lot of people question the reality of the power of centralized exchanges versus
decentralized exchanges. And we've started a lot of conversations internally. And Michael's been
doing some gas study research and things along that line to figure out what's really going on
here. Is it real? Is trading on a centralized exchange real or is it a shadow of real and i think that's what the
the conversation we're going to have today is really about um functionally when you trade on
a dex the liquidity is there you know how deep the liquidity is it's locked in a contract it is tvl
it is you you know even though it could be removed the tvl can be removed the positions can be
removed generally the cost of gas and everything is people aren't going to remove those positions
because the cost of placing an order, there's a true cost of placing an order and removing
an order.
That's kind of like the first thing.
The second thing is a lot of ghost TVL. Like I used to work at an exchange 2013, 2014.
And what we found was that most of the order books were ghost order books.
These order books were inundated and there wasn't any like real liquidity there.
The order books were like a copy pasta of order books from other exchanges.
And so you had a reflection of a reflection of a reflection
so like the actual liquidity in these order books were like paper thin and we kind of saw that when
the downfall of like the on 1010 is like we saw that the order books uh weren't as deep as as
perceived and this created a whole bunch of unravels and a whole bunch of like, you know, second degree derivatives that challenge what actually is there and what is actually available.
Okay, cool. This is recording. Michael you want to join in on the conversation all right maybe we'll have him join in here in a second or so. So you have, you have like, you know, 2014, there's like seven or eight
exchanges. They're like ghost order books. And then we have these order books made by these
market makers that are kind of like ghost order books as well. So like we have this term in,
in kind of our analysis that we call it drop 10, which is basically based on how much liquidity is on decentralized exchanges.
Your real value of your token is basically how much you can sell before it goes down by 10%.
And that's pretty much what the market cap of your token is.
So the market cap of these things are like hundreds of millions or billions, but it's not real market cap because you wouldn't be able to sell the whole thing.
Like if you tried to sell the whole thing, it'd be sold at a discount.
And because of the lack of M&A and token deals, there's pretty much down only on a lot of tokens that launch.
much down only on a lot of tokens that launch, A, because there's not necessarily real utility
or real value there, but also there's not this concept of M&A. You can't really accrue
more value to the token through a merger. So a lot of the companies that do expand,
they get a little bit of a land grab. And, you know, another company
comes in, a larger company kind of rolls them up into a larger purchase. And they have like, they
can kind of support the infrastructure, cut some costs, make it more valuable. You have this
aggregation. In a tokenized world, you don't really have M&A. And because you don't really have an M&A,
you can't really realize the prices of the entire market cap.
So that's kind of like one of the main issues.
So big issue number one, without M&A, the market cap isn't really real.
Big issue number two, if you drop like 10% in the value, that's about how much liquidity it is before you start having these cascading events, especially if there's leverage involved.
So what you really got here is like a three-fold problem um you know
centralized exchanges obviously like you have the ftx thing you have cripsy way back in the day you have some other ones like you know um you know bitmex uh was was considered
You know, BitMEX was considered kind of pseudo-illegal with, like, its 100 to 1 perps.
So you have, like, 100x leverage.
And so you have, like, this – over the course of time, you have consistently, again and again, have things like FTX fall apart, right? And so when you're talking about like global access,
and that's really like the sales position of the centralized exchanges.
The sales position of the centralized exchanges is like,
we are going to get you access
to all of these retail traders.
And the promise of retail trader,
it's kind of like morphs projects
and makes crazy deals with Binance and Coinbase and everywhere in between of these
centralized exchange listings. So while the centralized exchanges are beholden to countries,
nation state governments, they're beholden to market makers, they can copy pasta, order books from exchange to exchange, and there's no cost of placing orders.
And certain market makers get preferential treatment.
So it's not necessarily like an even playing field, right?
It's a playing field that is effectively – it's fake. It's an image. It's a shadow. And that kind of comes to the topic of Plato's Cave,
right? So in the allegory of Plato's Cave, you had this idea of these prisoners that were chained,
and they couldn't see, they could only see shadows on the wall. And the shadows that they saw on the wall, they thought was the real world.
And the real world was really outside the cave, but the images and everything that came
through, it was a derivative.
It was not real.
And basically what that allegory kind of talks about is how we always perceive the world
through our eyes and intention and the attention that we
give to something may or may not be real it may just be an illusion and and kind of go
philosophically like perception is reality and so what i'm kind of uh putting out there is this idea that Plato's cave is a centralized exchange.
And what I mean by that is that what happens on a centralized exchange is not really the
real liquidity of the trading. Like if the chain goes away that has the assets issued, the centralized exchange gets completely rugged, right?
And so they're always going to be at a discount or at a derivative, right?
The real deal is that these tokens live on a chain, and if they're traded on a chain, it's closer to reality than the reality of trading on a trade is there so you can do that. But if there's no cost to place an order or remove an order,
you effectively have this situation where it's not real.
And so when you break it down,
the decentralized exchange is the real world.
Everything else is a derivative, and that derivative can be manipulated by the chain and the underlying.
A great example of this is ETH staking.
So there's these indexes and these paper contracts.
Caesar, which is like a CoinDesk's index on the staking rate.
There's like a Caesar rate.
They're starting to do off-chain derivatives and paper contracts around ETH staking rate in New York.
And so they take the staking rate.
And then what functionally happens is if you know, if you're making a lot of transactions, you basically reduce the cost of the staking rate.
What's up, Joe?
You want to come up and chit-chat at a speaker?
Cool.
So, Joe, we're talking about centralized exchanges decentralized exchanges
and plato's cave um do you remember the allegory of plato's cave where the people inside the cave
made assumptions about what was going on outside of the cave and it was just a shadow
yeah dude exactly okay got it exactly and and so uh one of so one of the major concerns that I have in trading and kind of going over things, especially at Binance at 1010, is that effectively – all right, I just went into like a different spot.
Can you still hear me?
Let me know if you can't hear me anymore.
Gotcha.
Okay, cool.
It's a cave.
It's an illusion.
Hyperliquid is an illusion.
Binance is an illusion.
On 1010, Binance failed, and they only had sales only for like 15, 20 minutes.
This effectively created this crazy cascade.
effectively created like this crazy cascade.
And the pricing of the oracles on DeFi
were all out of whack when the actual rates on chain
were real, right?
So the DeFi liquidity was real.
And so what I'm interested in,
or really kind of like thinking about deeply here is like, is the long term solution decentralized exchanges because of fraud, corruption, being held responsible to government bodies, governmental bodies, and all of hyper liquid and finance trading almost being like people playing with shadows in Plato's cave because it's not real
and one example this is like you can if you take the tokens and you rug the chain
like what happens to the trading on the centralized exchanges it's gone right so
they're always kind of playing in this like strange derivative and they're not really playing in the real world.
Are centralized exchanges typically, I know it depends on the country, but are centralized exchanges typically insured the way that, let's say Robinhood would be?
Are they able to offer certain protections to their users
i think their terms of service is like protecting themselves at it's because of like the network
effects they may have some um they have paper contracts with like like people that matter
let's you know call that 10 million 100 million in token and and they're probably
adding protections and contracts and you know liabilities and and options and whatnot but for
retail now they're not really adding like a ton of retail protections the only thing that you really
can do is like hey here's transparency we actually hold the token that we have after ft text um ftx that
kind of became common uh but you know you can also like kind of abstract that into how coinbase and
has coinbase prime uh they could say oh we have all these tokens but you know is it really part
of coinbase or is it trading or is it proud of coinbase prime i'm not claiming that they're
so is it trading or is it proud of coinbase prime i'm not claiming that they're doing fraud i'm just
saying that um they may not necessarily have all the all the tokens that they have um i think i
think it's it's it's not it's not about like being you know being mean and saying like oh these people
are probably committing fraud i think it's just natural human instinct if you have humans behind the wheel we get greedier and greedier because at a certain point you know our bonuses are only so
big and our revenue and profit is only so much and then okay we either have to cut costs or we have
to increase increase revenue and so one way to do that is to we have this is capital inefficient for
us to just keep all these tokens on our balance sheets
when we could be earning yield on them in defy or we could be scalping volatility on defy and that's
i think that's just the natural progression of what's going to happen in the financial world no
matter what and that's what happens you know that's how the mortgage crisis happened right
same exact concept is they they ran out of good loans to put into these products so they had to keep going down the risk
curve yeah i think the exact same thing is just naturally going to happen in centralized exchanges
i'm very unsurprised by that reality but the problem is that normal people like us are going
to get that we're the ones that get screwed and then the whole market and then they probably are
going to somehow blame crypto as a whole instead of blaming the centralized custodians.
The whole entire backbone of DeFi is based off of the largest volume in centralized exchange, which is Binance.
So all the oracles were based off of Binance and Binance failed.
And their bull stopped.
Yeah, that's a huge problem.
Yeah. and our bull stopped yeah that's a huge problem yeah and from a from a narrative perspective also it's it's kind of a bummer that um the two i think is it fair to say that the two
worst days in the past five years were ftx were caused by ftx and binance yeah is that fair to say
well luna luna was bad and luna was defy right yeah proper defy
okay so then yeah those three those three things so two-thirds call it two-thirds of the past five
years i i was more involved i wasn't involved with that ftx at all i i know luna was about seven or
eight billion and there was two billion dollars worth liquidations on finance someone message me did you get
out did you get out of Luna I was like now little be fine it's so wrong I was
so wrong on that one I was like it's too big as like yeah 97 cents good good
buying opportunity I was like completely wrong the FTX one was, was, uh, a complete, complete disaster. What's really
interesting is that FTX was the first place where you could do your, um, you know, 5X up and down,
right? So 5X, you know, 5X E, you know, 5X short. And I think like, if you kind of like look at it's
like superpower, what everybody used look at its like superpower what everybody
used ftx for is basically what people use hyper liquid and lighter now and astor these these
exchanges are like ftx was for for leverage and people use that leverage but it's also how they
like got got wiped.
There were some people that manipulated some leverage and took out a billion dollars, which is incredibly crazy.
So when you go to those, there's a couple different things here.
So when you go to the centralized exchange, you're betting on their infrastructure.
And Binance's infrastructure failed. You're also betting that they remain solvent
and they can manage like the risk adjusted leverage correctly.
And to your point, Joe, people want bigger and bigger bonuses.
They may or may not give them the same amount of leverage, right?
They'll give them like, they're going to give more and more people leverage
because that's what makes money, whether or not that it's risk managed or not.
So like over a not long enough time horizon, you're going to get, you know, a 2008 crisis
because it's just human nature.
And whether they mispriced a currency or mispriced their token or the the cost of risk
eventually they're gonna mess up so is there any is there any future let's just
if we were to focus on just one the one issue which so to your point exactly
you're trusting the infrastructure that a centralized exchange or for
for all i mean really any any exchange any protocol you have to trust the infrastructure
and no one has time to go in and say oh which oracle are you using which rpc node provider
which whatever which chain is this actually on the rails of hopefully no one has to care about
that stuff in the future just as today when i use a credit
card on a machine i don't know how many people are touching the money because i don't care and
it doesn't matter right so because you hopefully for it because i don't have to pay for it that's
that's a very that's a good distinction of why that reality exists but i think the the issue
the issue here is how are you supposed to with something that is custodial versus non-custodial, something like Binance, how many different...
Is there a centralized exchange aggregator that has a much more robust infrastructure suite where it's not just like Binance uses Binance oracles.
And because that can be extremely conflicting. It can be an extreme conflict of interest.
If Binance is making money on underlying assets being swapped and they also are controlling the
prices in terms of like, where are they actually getting those prices from? Their own order books?
prices in terms of like where are they actually getting those prices from their own order books
yeah their own order books in the volume
yeah and the reason why Binance is Binance is because they do have the most volume
isn't Binance also one of the largest market makers in a weird way
they hold a tremendous amount of token supply in order to get listed on Binance
what are they doing with that token supply
are they making markets
i lost you Thank you. Testing. testing
there you are
oh good oh your your voice is crisp yeah crisp voice had to switch to a computer okay cool
sorry about that um let's see all good i got i got 10 minutes i got 10 minutes till our uh
our king weekly but okay cool okay the my question was so for instance I remember talking to Redstone um and they you know they
were like yeah they they take Binance takes a huge chunk of our token supply in order to get listed
which is ridiculous and so predatory but it probably helps them more than it hurts them
in the long run but what is Binance doing with that five percent ten percent of token supply what are they doing with that
yeah they're they're they're market making they're giving it to their market makers so the market
makers they are are they market making is this a fact are we sure about this because i don't want
i don't want to accuse them of doing something that we don't know is true are they actually doing
their market making with that right i'm sure they i'm sure it comes out as like an options contract or like uh they can't sell for
12 months that's what i've seen before okay but then after 12 months let's say let's say the token
is doing doing fine they can sell but um and market making is buying selling pricing whatever
i guess i'm just trying to i'm just trying to really wrap my head around this if in terms of
the incentives and the parties involved if if Binance is acting as a market maker to some
capacity then they are also the ones that are pricing the books and they're earning money on
the trades all of that stuff is it's a little bit of a conflict of interest if you think about it
I'm not saying this,
the 10,
10 was malicious and there was,
there were bad actors that were doing things on purpose,
but I just don't think that that incentive model makes a whole lot of
sense.
Yeah.
I agree with you,
dude.
It's there.
They're making so much money.
They are,
they are the global bazaar.
They are the amazon of the crypto
market and and kind of like there's this thing of like if if you're not on amazon you're like you're
not in the market and and basically if you want to compete on global commerce you have to be on
amazon if you want it and you got to be on finance and you got to be on amazon if you want it and you got to be on binance and you got to be on finance
yeah because they're making because at the end of the day they're making a lot of people rich
they're making themselves rich they're making themselves they're making a lot of people
they've made a lot of people money and then those people whether it's in Turkey or I don't know Portugal whomever they you know
they may they do a 3x on ethereum and then people are like oh what like I want to get into crypto
and right here make a Binance account this is where I did it yeah and then it's it's network
effect yeah so it's the global marketplace and that's why they get the most volume and that's
why but what I'm effectively that I'm saying is like over and i started talking about um the caesar rate are you familiar with the the staking caesar rate
no it's the index of um the the staking rate and so they're starting to make uh options contracts
on the staking rate which is like the index of the ETH staking rate. So they don't, because people are, um, afraid of smart contract risk,
they effectively are like, Hey, we're going to use paper contracts and start
doing options on the, like validators, ETH validators are doing paper contracts
and kind of like doing PTYT, selling the upside yields based upon the staking rate.
And they're not doing that on-chain.
They're doing it off-chain.
So they can guarantee their income as an ETH validator at scale.
okay that's pretty smart yeah and but um the staking rate can be manipulated by increasing
Okay.
That's pretty smart.
Yeah.
the amount of transactions on ethereum uh i think it's about the flip again i think ethereum
is about to to go negative it's deflationary again um based upon staking and transaction usage and what what basically that means is that you're
making these paper contracts that are years long that's also like plato's cave right it's not it's
not real and and because the accessibility and the current kind of like tools don't seem fluid enough on like the pseudo finance global marketplace people aren't trading
it as such on on chain which makes the whole entire thing fragile like I guess what I'm
proposing here is like over a long enough time horizon you have to move DEXs on chain and you have to have the move the majority of volume on chain.
Otherwise, you'll get manipulated and washed and rugged.
It's just a matter of time.
And who I think you I know what you mean, but I think you misspoke.
You said you have to move DEXs on chain.
You mean you have to move centralized exchanges on chain.
You have to move the majority of trading volume to dexes from sexes from from centralized exchanges to decentralized
exchanges i completely agree isn't it this is kind of like narrative wise isn't it just very ironic
that that it's not on chain like we're crypt the idea of crypto is basically like a speculative
like we're crypt the idea of crypto is basically like a speculative lever for this new technology
called blockchain yet 99 of the speculative trading is not happening on the underlying
technology it's like 80 still happens off chain i thought it was more than that i thought mo i
thought it was like 99 no it's it's it's it's still majority but it's not i thought it was like 99%. No, it's still majority, but it's not.
I thought it was a huge majority.
What am I thinking?
Isn't it like, oh, it's Uniswap token.
That was so ironic.
Uni token volume is 99% on centralized exchanges.
Yeah, which is kind of crazy.
Which is hilariously ironic.
But anyway, I'm completely with you.
So who do you think is going to be the biggest?
What's the catalyst?
What's the big, what's going to be the thing?
You said in a long enough time horizon,
what is actually going to metastasize and drown the beast?
Is it people?
It's hyper liquid, just too much leverage.
Well, I think hyper liquid is on chain
and they're doing like this synthetic leverage,
which is like super interesting.
And when they fail, they decide, oh, we're not going to pay that off.
When their risk management isn't there, it's kind of interesting.
They've pulled that off a couple of times.
But because of the synthetic liquidity nature of hyperliquid, it's now tracking lots of volume.
tracking lots of volume so the will you explain uh tldr what the difference between synthetic
liquidity and regular i can probably fill in the blanks but i want to want to hear a good definition
i'll just i'll just take you know eth because we mostly play in it okay Okay, so it's $1.6 billion worth of volume in the last 24 hours of ETH on Hyperliquid.
And $2 billion of volume on Binance.
So it's coming on chain, dude.
So synthetic meaning that they basically have market makers like position trades and
basically you can do it with leverage so you you effectively can have like let's say you want to
like have a position where you're you're making a trade on on binance and then you're hedging it
on on hyper liquid and then you're kind of managing the interest rates back and forth.
The current funding rate is about 11% per year.
So the funding, which means that if you buy $100 worth of ETH and then you short $100 worth of ETH on Hyperliquid, you'll get $11 back at the end of the year.
So there's 11% basis trade right now on hyper liquid um and the reason why it's they they the reason why it's synthetic is because um they don't actually hold
the eth uh they they hold um they don't hold the eth right they right? They just allow you to trade on the ETH prices
and then manage the interest rates.
And they use the dynamic interest rate management to,
there's no ETH there.
And it's basically based on of Binance,
Binance volume.
Hyperliquid almost always trails Binance prices by like a second or two.
Okay.
Yeah, that's a little more surprising.
Yeah.
So they're basically using interest rate arbitrage and synthetics,
which is also not really...
It's also Plato's Cave.
But at least it's like on-chain Plato's Cave, right?
It's like one step in the road.
Yeah, that starts to get really strange.
The whole synthetic thing is either going to be...
I mean, technically, every single RWA is synthetic.
Every single, like 100% synthetic.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Which is why I don't actually...
When people say like RWA and DeFi,
it's like that's technically never possible.
That's 0% possible.
Yeah, you have to protect it with bullets, dude.
What you should say is like synthetic exposure to RWA.
That's what you should call it.
It's not real-world assets on-chain.
That's not what that is.
It's synthetic exposure.
Yeah.
That's it so once again
like the most successful reasons of success in like the last year like athena and hyperliquid
are probably like the two most successful products if you will are are both kind of synthetic. We're moving away from...
It's the financialization of the financialization.
Again, it's not the core thing.
I guess it's the way of the world though, right?
Yeah, I don't think there's new trends.
It's just, it rhymes.
It rhymes with what has happened
and what will continue to happen.
But that's crazy, it's rhymes. It rhymes with what has happened and what will continue to happen. But that's crazy, dude.
Hyperliquid has, what was that?
Like 80%?
That's pretty crazy that they have 80% of the volume of Binance.
I don't think they could ever have more.
I don't think they could ever have more.
Is that because...
I think that that might flip them.
They might have more in a giga-gigable degen frothy economy.
Sure, sure, sure.
But it's kind of like things trading at a premium to NAF.
It's a synthetic. Binance actually has the token uh yeah but also i mean think about like 2007 temperature check on the derivatives market versus like like the mortgage-backed derivatives
market versus the number of like the real estate market. It was like 20 times bigger.
Yeah, man.
That's just how we're greedy bastards, man.
That's what we do.
Like, how can we make more money on this
and then get the risk off of our own balance sheets
and hand it to somebody else?
Have somebody bet on our bet.
That's what it is.
That's what insurance is.
That's what reinsurance is and as soon as someone solves that problem on chain credit default swap marketplace for instance
i know it's expensive as hell because it's so hard to underwrite but then that'll that'll
quadruple the size of the market and then it'll pop and then it'll you know and then we'll be right back and then that's all fun and games okay i'm three i'm three minutes
late to a call i don't know why this call starts at the 20 instead of the 30 but i'm three minutes
late all right see you guys all right later all right we're gonna close it up here we're gonna
close it up.
If you place your positions correctly in the real world on chain,
you should always be at an advantage to and not be so.
I think every time you go synthetic and every time you go to those edges, you're kind of adding risk on risk.
And if you can manage that correctly, then it's fine.
However, given a long enough time horizon, you eventually will have some sort of black swan and mess up. And over time, more liquidity should come on chain.
More trading should come on chain because that is reality.
And everything else is an abstraction of that reality.
What a token is worth in a pool V2 or some hyperliquid order book seems to be more real and more sustainable, has a more sustainable price point than what the price is on Binance.
Because of the abstraction and because of the speculation, the centralized exchange pulls the narrative and it has the volume so that it pulls the liquidity because money wants to move fast.
Anything that has any sense of moneyness or trading, it wants to go where the action is and wants to keep on flowing.
So it flows there. So the question really becomes is like, how do we intensify trading and volume and incentivize that in a non-predatory way to suction back the liquidity onto the on-chain and to bring people on-chain?
So it flows there.
Because the more people that are on-chain, the better it is for the entire industry and ecosystem you get more gas you get more trades
get more volume you get more attention as you get more gas trades and volume i mean that that should
really be the the the goal is to get more and more people on chain bring the world on chain
they get more and more people on chain, bringing the world on chain.
As Jesse from base says, all right, I'm going to edit there, bring more people on chain.
How do we incentivize people to trade on chain?
How do we get them access to the assets?
How do we make it easy so they can just click from their phone, whether it's synthetic or
not synthetic?
You know, maybe it's the job of companies like Alpha Growth to understand and move the
vaults around. So things move on chain, and they can help that direction while getting access
to distribution such as Binance, such as Hyperliquid, and moving things along those lines.
Moving things along those lines.
So I'd love to hear your thoughts on this article we're going to write,
on this post, or even in this message if you happen to listen to this.
What are your thoughts?
Do you think over the long enough time horizon things moves on chain,
time horizon, things moves on chain or will, will off chain always be one other, one other,
or will off-chain always be?
one other kind of metaphor allegory. I think this feels like is, that reminds me of is,
uh, iPhone apps versus mobile web. And, um, you know, I think, I think like,
so the centralized exchanges feel like, feel like iPhone apps versus mobile web.
And it's like as the infrastructure of mobile web gets greater and greater, the need of an app becomes smaller and smaller, especially like progressive web apps and things like that.
So as the infrastructure on chain, eventually you really shouldn't even need apps.
Like the web should just be strong enough infrastructure.
But it's proven since the creation of the iPhone and these iPhone apps, it's proven that this isn't the case.
But will that, and is it because of a functional or philosophical, like the convenience of the thing, or is it because the phone makers are putting in artificial hurdles to keep the app economy going?
I feel like you could just connect things to progressive web apps today and have if they were allowed to
give the access but they're like no we want to hold off access so if you had a truly open phone
with progressive web apps would you actually even need apps on the phone or is it or is it a security
thing so lots of questions in there um centralized exchanges feels like you're offloading the security and risk
to the centralized exchange versus the smart contract risk.
And over a long enough time horizon, trading should flow to on-chain
because it's where the assets are issued and it's closer to real versus the unreal,
and it's closer to real versus the unreal,
which is all of these other vaults and structured products
and centralized exchanges.
Cool. That's the time.
Thank you for listening if you're listening in.
Bryan Colligan, founder of Alpha Growth,
and thanks for listening. Bye.
Host
bryancolligan
from
AG Product
