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Chads Lounge - Unstoppable Integration and XRP
Recorded: June 21, 2025 Duration: 0:46:40Space Recording
Short Summary
In a recent discussion, crypto enthusiasts explored the potential of new projects like MUCA, the strategic partnerships forming around ThorChain, and the ongoing challenges and trends in the decentralized finance space. Key topics included the integration of various blockchain technologies, the resilience of decentralized protocols against regulatory pressures, and the growth potential of platforms like ThorChain.
Full Transcription
Thank you. you
the second time I'm going to try reposting this here so people can see it but uh yeah hopefully uh unstoppable comes back there he was on a good rant i was really enjoying it
we'll give you time for everybody to come back
and uh yeah share this via post guys we are still going
Patriot are you back there all right you guys hear me damn it what the hell I
know it's frustrating here's it is I really like yeah unstoppable is on a on
a really good rant I was really enjoying it.
Hopefully we'll get them back.
Hopefully we'll get everybody back.
And with the Coke, I see... I'm going to reach out to Lady K,
see if she wants to come back, too.
Yeah.
With the Coke,
we'll have to splice these two spaces together
for the YouTube and everything.
Let's see here.
Thorchain, intern, can you make me co-host?
You are a co-host according to me.
Oh, really?
Okay.
Yeah.
I just see a speaker.
Yeah, that's the thing.
It's just such a mess.
I don't know.
I think they really...
You know, it'd be so simple to have a staging room.
And make this more stable number one.
But then before you even start a space,
like you can have like a,
like a semi stage where you can have it like shadow started and then invite
speakers and then start with all the speakers and the hosts,
everyone good to go.
So it's not like this awkward,
you know,
start time anyway,
but it's for me.
It's funny.
You know,
with Elon being so forward thinking,
you'd think he would pour a lot of money and effort in the funny um you know with elon being so forward thinking you think he would pour a lot of
money and effort in the spaces you know because he's he's pretty hot on making twitter the town
hall uh you know the free speech world's town hall you think and these spaces are are fantastic
uh concept way to way to do it right so um yeah it's been frustrating um yeah i would have to think that he's just
redesigning the whole architecture like they've given up entirely on x on on these x bases because
they're too unstable and he's building something from the ground up that's the only reason i can
think of logically why x bases are still like this that's the only thing that makes sense
thing that makes sense yeah sometimes it's better to start over
yeah sometimes it's better to start over
uh well i guess if the the the people who are running twitter before all the woke uh censorship
uh what do you want to call them if they're the ones who are behind the architecture of
the space i guess it makes sense right um you know they're mentally retarded so they built a mentally retarded structure
right yeah so you know there's just sometimes you just gotta like kill the baby and start a new one
you know what i mean it's unfortunate but you gotta call the week yeah yeah all right
unstoppable coming back where is he he's in our telegram right yeah yeah we have a um we have daddy
bio i don't know how to say your name i'm so sorry bro um i think he's probably getting on
the other account right now um here i'll share the link in that group we'll get him back up here if
anyone wants to speak please request um we'll bring you back up sorry guys you know how x's
are i wish i wish it could it didn't have to be this way believe it on the new intern he's been
killing it with his threads and posts but he can't dude he can't handle the twitter space
you know it's just uh some guys right you know yeah we're gonna have to deduct his pay the
friggin yeah terrible yeah yeah he's smart hazing um oh i see dd d daddy listener um maybe he's joining with a different account
yeah i don't i would think so yeah d daddy that's what i was thinking too how to say his name i
didn't was trying not to say that um okay i got some requests here all right guys we're cuts if you want to come up
we're going to keep the conversation going um man we had so many x our peers in here we got connie
hey connie thanks for joining uh man this has been a great space great i love it man everyone's
getting connected that's exactly what i envisioned i'm so happy um max uh do you got something you want to say you're on stage let you have a second to check your mic
there GM GM guys all right GM okay hmm I can't understand you could Can you try and clean up your mic there a little bit?
Okay.
I said GM, GM, guys.
I was on the previous space just now.
So, unfortunately,
S removed us from the space.
So, the moment I saw this,
I joined the space.
Okay.
Perfect. All right. Sorry, guys. I'm uh frantically clicking with my thumbs here on my
smartphone just moving around trying to get things up yeah i just tried to act unstoppable
to get him to to rejoin us here um so hopefully you can joe jumped up you got your hand up joe
can you help us keep the conversation going? Yeah, trying to.
All right, for sure.
Oh, for sure.
You guys can do what you want to do.
I'd like to keep the conversation going.
But when you guys back up, you guys could answer the question.
I wanted to know if there's like a community, probably a TG group or a TG community,
like a community, probably a TG group or a TG community,
or maybe there's an X community or a, our discord or, you know,
server we could join, you know,
some of us that are new to the chain and its communities would like to
probably get ourselves familiar with infrastructures and also get ourselves
familiar with more people in the already on the chain. All right. So I don't know if you guys are back up.
You can jump on that and tell us if there's a possibility for that.
And again, I saw MUCA.
MUCA is a phenomenal project.
I don't know if they're willing to tell us about MUCA
because I would really like to know more about MUCA.
I think Eric is here as well. willing to tell us about mocha because i would really like to know more about mocha i think eric
is here as well so eric might be able to give us uh a a solid uh information as to what mocha is
all about but yeah i don't know if you guys are back so you guys can continue uh yeah we were
joe are you we asking about uh discord and stuff for ThorChain?
Or Unstoppable?
Yeah.
Yeah, I was asking for Discord or any community whatsoever.
If you have a Telegram community for ThorChain, if we could join so we could probably get to... I'm posting it right now for you, brother.
Absolutely.
I got you.
I'm posting it right now. I finally can access got you i'm posting it right now i finally can
access the comments now that we've restarted the space i'm going to put in the comments and i'm
going to i'm going to sling it above us here in just a second but the answer directly joe yeah
the answer is yes there's a thor chain developer discord um which is uh more for just you know
talking about actual code and stuff on Thorchain.
And then we just recently kind of rebranded a Thorchain community Discord where people
can get more general and be more, I don't know what you want to say, ask more open-ended
questions and stuff like that.
And then, well, the Patriot Sounds, he's a mod in the telegram group chat for thor chain um so
there you go those are the three three main ways actually that i know but anything else patriot
you can think of um there are a ton of resources yeah with the telegram the discord as you said
developer discord we also got many different educational videos
um one done by kenton himself uh and yeah there's a lot of resources here i'm actually putting them
in the comments i'm trying to um and then i'm gonna pin them up to the top here so people can
see it new people who come in who are not familiar with thoracic so they can access those materials
um are any any luck on unstoppableet? What's going on
on that front?
There they are, I see, and they're listeners.
Perfect. Oh, nice.
I think my
Twitter is really wonky.
I'm still a speaker. I can't
see anybody.
Okay.
Kanto, I think
you probably might have, well, I say more, I think Petrod also mentioned earlier that Torchain account is, I mentioned something about OmniChain,
and I see that they are trying to integrate with SRP.
I want to know, would that also have a ripple effect,
you know, integrating with other chains as well,
aside, you know, SRP, would there be, you know,
Torchains integrating with other chains,
based on the fact that we are building, when it comes to Torchains, we are building, you know torching into which other chain based on the fact that we are building when it comes to
torching we're building you know infrastructure you know or what would i call it now infrastructural
base you know for other chains or to interconnecting other chains i don't know if you get my question
but i'm asking if uh the same way we are you know integrate people if you would be doing the same way we are, you know, integrated APL,
if we would be doing the same with every other chain, you know, in the long run?
I'm not sure if I understand your question completely,
but maybe I'll try answering it.
So, yeah, ThorChain connects other chains in the sense,
like the ability to swap the tokens.
It's not necessarily like communicating on different chains.
So it's just the ability to swap the native tokens with each other
without wrapping them, without using an IOU.
And so like, for example, the Bitcoin on Torchain is real Bitcoin,
native Bitcoin on a Bitcoin address that is your self-custody.
It's not a token like WBTC.
And that might sound simple, but it's taken over a decade to figure that out. And ThorChain was the first one to figure it out. And so if you can imagine, each blockchain is like a city, New York,
You know, each blockchain is like a city, right? New York, London, Tokyo, Hong Kong, Sydney, you know, you have all these cities around the world, but they couldn't, you couldn't go between them, right? They had these all individual economies, city to another to go from one move from one token
to another token on another blockchain does did that answer your question then i understand it
right it does it does it actually pointed me to the right direction so uh so i was asking yeah so you're saying that uh every other chains uh uh infrastructure
coin token can be assessed on the torching you know you know based on this particular idea that
has been done with you know btc just like the example you you made so what i was asking is
if this same or structure that is built with you know the btc token you
know on torching can also be implemented with solana you know with ethereum and yes yes and
thor chain is chain agnostic now with solana in particular like there's different like consensus
mechanisms and different ways that chains function like there's edsa and things like that we actually
are going to try and add Solana.
Maybe it might be the next chain.
I'm not actually quite sure.
But yeah, we are actually adding Solana,
but it takes a little bit of architecture work
because we have something called Bifrost.
And Bifrost is basically like the logic
and the information that helps the swap logic, right?
Like all the connection between,
like the communication between all the different like daemons that go to cosmos sdk that facilitate um you know like
the swap the help to do the swap logic basically i'm sorry i tongue twisted that but yes yes we
are chain agnostic and we want to be able to add any and every chain possible that is definitely
a goal 100 um i want to just like maybe we will go ahead to that if I just add to it Patriot just to simplify it a bit more
remember Unstoppable was saying earlier
that it's going to take like several weeks
to support XRP
on their wallet
like it just takes time to write the code
do it properly
it's the same thing on ThorChain
in theory we would want literally every
cryptocurrency right
but it just takes time to write the code
and do it properly
and without there being any, you know,
hacks or thefts or anything, right?
So in theory,
ThorChain could handle any token that exists.
It's just the developer time to make it a reality.
Right.
And to tack onto that, we actually tried to add Monero years ago, but we couldn't figure out a safe implementation to do it because the thing with Thorchain is it's not meant to do privacy natively.
It's just meant to swap assets, right?
And Thorchain has to determine finality of assets, like what went where to whom and to what to guarantee solvency and that we're not just sending out assets without receiving something. And we couldn't figure out how to do that with Monero. The
technology wasn't there. Now I'm thinking in the future, there will be a workaround and there are
other protocols working on that. And like I said, with my protocol, we do have privacy with Zcash,
which is great. But yes, there's a lot of technical challenges with adding chains like
anything else. And it works great now to Kenton's point. It works like butter now with our swaps, but guys, this took a long time to figure out. There was numerous
bugs when we first started in ChaosNet in 2021. There are hundreds of thousands of lines of code
in ThorChain. It is a big girl. It's a beast. It is not easy to facilitate cross-chain real
layer one cross-chain swaps, not wrapped assets. That's the easy cheat way to do it. We, you know, ThorChain from the ground up, our ethos was real layer one to layer one,
no cheating, you know, permissionless open, no KYC. If you can sign a transaction,
if you can craft a memo, you can swap assets. You don't even need an interface. You don't even
need Unstoppable. You don't need TrustWallet. You don't need any of these guys. If you can craft a
memo, you can make a swap. And that was extremely important design ethos from the very beginning um but i do want to go back
to unstoppable wallet i do not even remember what the question was before we got rugged by the um
oh go ahead kenton i'll help you get going here on supple we're talking about centralized exchanges
uh integrated on various wallets that um the users don't know
about they place a trade that's sex then freezes the trade ask for kyc and the user can't come up
with it uh because uh they just they just don't doesn't that documentation doesn't exist where
they live type thing and um you're talking about the banana farmer. It's mostly honest people.
And they're just,
basically they're the unbanked, right?
It's those two to four to six billion people,
however you measure it,
that are unbanked.
And the reason they're unbanked
is because they don't have this arbitrary KYC docs
that tradify demands from them.
So they're excluded from the financial system.
They're excluded from the world. And this is literally what the whole point of crypto is, is demands from them. So they're excluded from the financial system. They're excluded from the world.
And this is literally what the whole point of crypto
is, is to include them
and embrace those people.
And then these self-custody
wallets turn around and push people
through sex.
And it's like, what the hell?
It really bugs me.
But anyway, you were on a great rant
there, Unstoppable.
I don't know if you want to keep going with it or not.
Yeah, thanks.
Thanks for setting it up again.
Well, shortly about integrating centralized wallets into decentralized applications such as Unstoppable
and Changely specifically.
When we looked at Changely,
there were a lot of
feedback on reddit itself where people would complain about that they're stuck the funds
were stuck you know and when they approached us it looked like it's uh it looked like an
uncustodial atomic swap based exchange first you know but uh yeah upon further evaluation we kind
of decided okay it doesn't
suit us and the reason it doesn't suit us for that specific reason that they can just like
freeze your funds during the middle during the swap and later ask you you know to provide
all kinds of data which a lot of people may not be able to provide you know and that and it sucks to be in that situation uh
yeah one of the very reasons we started unstoppable because we were debanked you know uh with our
previous startup so and that was the reason to start unstoppable in the first place so
uh yeah it's a no-no for us and uh one of the reasons for example we don't provide buy crypto buttons in our wallet
or anything in that regard you know is because these are things these are the things that
well they cannot really confiscate a lot of funds when you're buying crypto with a credit card you
are kind of limited for at most work to a couple of k or so but still you are provided to provide
you are asked to provide a lot of data.
And at the same time,
you kind of being ripped off where you have to pay at least 5% or so on top
of your, yeah, purchase.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The credit card stuff is frustrating.
So I'm curious in that question for you.
I noticed your post, I don't know if it was the first one you put out,
but you put out a post saying Thorchain, forgive me, I'm going to get it wrong,
but it was something to the effect that Thorchain didn't freeze any swaps
during the Bybit hack and proves and shows Thorchain is unstoppable,
just like you guys.
And that's what attracted you to us.
Is that really what got ThorChain on your radar?
Or were you already in conversations before?
Or yeah, what happened there?
Well, we knew about ThorChain long before that.
It was just, this was a perfect example to illustrate
its resilience you know because you see a lot of chains being marketed as decentralized with
some kind of like innovative governance model but when when the heat hits the fan you know
all of that is crashing and that by bit hack was a good uh uh way in my opinion it did a lot of
marketing to torture it's actually a lot of those niche og guys that I talked to
yeah they they now see torchain is actually a decentralized because you
know very few people can understand tech very few people can actually go open the tech read the white papers go get check
github and see how things actually work and how resilient they are you know so
but a lot of people can see if they see that okay some kind of exchange was
hacked a lot of funds are being stolen and then there is a lot of tweets or
news about this protocol
freezing funds this exchange freezing funds this stuff freezing funds so this this is a real life
moments where you see that how resilient something is yeah and by no means i'm not defending the
thieves you know yeah no one should steal anyone's funds, you know. And it's a pity that some people lost money as a result.
I hope that no one did because Bybit actually refunded everyone.
At least they say so.
Yeah.
But at the same time, you know, you can actually see it's a good test for decentralization,
you know, and you can actually see that which protocols, which services are resilient.
So, for example, the more of the recent
hacks where the sui get hacked you know and you saw that uh well it's not actually a sui get hacked
it was uh a dex that was operating on on sui get hacked but uh at the end of the day they kind of
uh did a chain rework you know, where they basically excluded that hacked transaction
from the blockchain as though it never happened.
Yeah.
And I'm not judging them, you know.
I wouldn't want to be in that position and losing funds, you know.
But at the same time, you cannot really market yourself after that
as being a decentralized blockchain, you know.
It may be forgivable for Ethereum to do that back in 2016 when like
things were way more different you know but we are in 2025 there are a lot of l2s a lot of things are
going on so uh so yeah uh we definitely knew about torchain long before and uh we're meant to integrate it for us the delayed integration was
rather a matter of of UX complexity you know because it's not a
straightforward swap and when I say straightforward swap is like when you do
a swap on on some kind of decks and native a native DEX like Uniswap, you know, it's from the UI point of view,
the incoming and originating transaction is one transaction.
But when it comes to Torchain, it's two transactions.
And for a wallet, it needs to somehow know
that both of those transactions are belonging to the same use case,
basically, to the user wants to do a user
wants to send one asset and receive another you know and there are a lot of complexities
ui complexities in that regard to make it work as as we would like to so and uh yeah so it basically
got postponed constant constantly postponed because there was
something or another thing that was unclear for us how it should be done or
something had to be refactored first like we had to refactor whole transactions
logic we do in the app and there is there is a lot of logic because we have
16 blockchains and all of them handle transactions differently so
so yeah we knew about truck chain long before torching long before but that latest incident
is by bit kind of put it immediately put it on the priority list to us and some of the people that
to us and some of the people that uh uh donated to us they uh yeah they asked us to prioritize it so
oh cool that's uh that was actually my during the time in february is happening i was actually
that's the way i was looking at it like this could actually be round about good advertising
for thort chain for people who truly understand understand what everyone, what we're trying to build
here in crypto.
So it's interesting to hear that from you,
like a real-life use case.
So there's a question
about it. So one of the
reasons is that
in theory
why ThorChain, the protocol
is safe,
air quotes safe, is that the authorities appreciate and understand
that it is open source, decentralized, that they can't interfere.
But the front ends, like the wallets and the websites
that integrate into ThorChain, that's what they want to go after
and basically pressure them
or force them to put in a blacklist,
like an address blacklist
to try and prevent these illicit actors.
And a lot of ThorChain frontends
have implemented some sort of blacklist.
Would Unstoppable do that? Would implemented some sort of blacklist. Would
Unstoppable do that?
Would you guys implement a blacklist?
Would you follow, listen to any
authorities? Would you succumb to any pressure?
Do anything preemptive
to try and protect yourself
from the authorities coming after you?
Anything like that?
Well,
how to say it?
I would probably be in a different position if I lived in the US or if we operated in
the US because it's kind of easy to say these people shouldn't have done that and this because
you're not in their shoes.
But good for us is that firstly we are fully self-sufficient we are not taking any vc
money and we are not dependent on any kind of external funding source so we can kind of do
whatever we like with our time that's one thing secondly is we are not operating in any jurisdictions
where they can really force us to do anything you know because it's not really well there
is there is such thing as like direct money laundering you know where you where
you are where you are directly involved in some kind of illicit activities you
know then there is such thing that where you can where you just provide software and open source
software so what can what can theoretically uh can happen is that we are forced to add some kind
of blacklist and if we do not comply our app can be delisted from a app store or play market so i think that's the worst kind of uh pressures that can be put on us
yeah but so far luckily we have never been in that position to do that and should we end up
in such position we would probably choose not to be uh listed on those stores rather than uh
on those stores
rather than
rather than let's say
introducing some kind of
country-wide blacklist
it's one thing where you have
a blacklist from let's say
Interpol where they have
specific addresses
it's another thing when you have a blacklist
that's asking you to block a whole country
so you know
it's
I do not understand personally that.
And I would never want to be in such position having to do that.
But, yeah, life is life.
I hope it never happens to us.
And I don't think there is any way for someone to force us to do that.
Because, let's say, if you are operating a website,
it's fairly easy to force you to comply
because at the end of the day,
your website can't be confiscated.
When you are a mobile app or a software,
a desktop software, you know,
it's as long as this package is available somewhere
on GitHub, it can be easily uh like shared and distributed you know
without you even being involved you can say okay like just like you said you know there are some
uis or web apps that can integrate blockchain uh block lists you know but then there at the same
time there can be some others that don't and it's fairly easy for those to go viral within a day or
so you know so uh yeah i hope that answers your question it does it does i mean i can't say no we
won't you know because well everyone wants to live a happy and move freely you know but at the same
time yeah you wouldn't like to resist as much as possible to the extent you can.
Yeah, that's great.
That's awesome.
It sounds like you guys will take quite a bit for you
to bend the knee, which is great to hear.
You're saying true to your name.
Well, maybe you can help me up.
Forgive me for being a tech dummy.
You say as long as you're on GitHub,
what if GitHub or GitLab,
what if they shut you down?
Or can they?
Well, GitHub can.
GitHub can because essentially it's a centralized website owned by Microsoft.
But the thing is,
the importance of it is being Git platform.
Like, basically, you can easily migrate your code from GitHub to GitLab,
or pretty much you can, even if you are on GitLab,
you can just take this package and send it to someone,
and he can easily run it on his own server.
And I believe there are already the centralized
versions of this of this version tracking so basically github can shut
you down but it won't really damage you to a large it won't really censor you in
part it will just stop you from using github specifically but you can take
that dot git file and send it to someone just over telegram
let's say or over yeah over email got it and yeah uh so yeah yeah and and gitlab specifically i'm not
right now well familiar with how gitlab operates but i remember that we specifically added GitLab as a secondary versioning tracker instrument, just in case there are some ever issues with GitHub.
So I think GitHub is a bit more resilient, but yeah, I don't remember what was specific
about it.
So maybe it's some kind of uh uncensorable uh version of github so unstoppable is a a phone
app and a desktop download that those are the two no just just just the phone app just a phone app
okay and then so if i have the unstoppable app on my phone and i've got an Android so Play Store Google Play decides to turn you
guys off I can go access but I would have to like jailbreak my phone and then
somehow access the good file like yeah yeah if you are on Android yeah you
basically take the app file and send it to anyone as long as well as yourself you can just install it and
maybe like let's say a couple of months later we release a new build or someone else does because
our code is open source and says okay guys here is a newer version with that and that and that
update you know and you just take that file and install it, you know, by passing the play market entirely It's not possible with iOS. So it won't be possible to do an iPhone. Yeah, but yeah
If maybe I'm yeah, I'm probably
Sorry guys. I'm a technical fight when it comes to this like I've got a samurai wallet on my phone and
when the samurai the
samurai sorry when the samurai dev got thrown in a cage and Google did something to the app, made
it like unusable.
But I would assume they would have some, the samurai guys were pretty, you know, they're
are pretty, you know, they're similar vein as you guys.
similar vein as you guys.
Wouldn't, like, I guess what I'm trying to ask is,
like, if Google can go in and, like, affect my Samurai wallet,
can't Google go in and affect my Unstoppable wallet
and basically make it so I can't use it on my phone?
Like, what good is having this Git file
that somebody, we can send to each other?
Or would I have to, like, whatever Google does to my current version of the app,
I'd have to, like, delete it and then get the new app from you, for example,
get you to email it to me.
Then I can upload that new one on my phone?
Am I missing something?
What am I being dumb about?
What am I?
Well, like, normally well if you like normally if
you have an app installed uh the the nor the play market or app store should be able to influence it
or inhibit its functioning in any way but there are there are exceptions and for example a lot
of apps in the google play market uses this called like common Google
libraries you know like for example one of them is firebase it's a library that
provides a lot of out-of-the-box functional functionality like let's say
push notifications and so on so that I believe that that they can interfere
with so to answer your question for sure i would have to kind of look
a bit more into the samurai app on android and see how it's actually functioned to be able but
yeah normally it's they shouldn't be able to interfere so they can delist it from play market
they can uh basically prevent your users to download any new version of your app, you know, or even find your older versions of that.
But to my knowledge, out of the box, they should not be able to influence the app that's already there on your phone.
Okay, cool. Thanks.
And then you mentioned your jurisdiction jurisdiction do you mind saying what jurisdiction
you work out of or or if not if you want to maintain privacy i appreciate that
oh well we are distributed we are distributed like our team is mostly six people 16 17 people
who are full-time and we are distributed among three continents but none of us are located in us and
europe so yeah uh that's uh yeah that's probably the best way to answer it yeah um all right
patriots sorry matt you probably have some questions uh i'm done if you want to jump in
no dude actually i was going to give you some kudos this was a great question to ask i'm so glad you mentioned the bybit exploit and what how we respond to it because you know i think this is
actually kind of a poetic um relationship here because not only because your name's unstoppable
because that's what thor chain wants to be as well we want to be unstoppable you know and for those
who don't know in the audience um the bybit exploit, correct me if I'm wrong, I believe that was the
largest exploit ever, right? $1.5 billion from a single address. I might be wrong about that,
but I think that's right. There was enormous, enormous pressure, you guys, on ThorChain
to censor these transactions. It was huge, okay? We were getting blasted everywhere from these very
high profiles. And the thing how it worked,
it was a very, you know, it was a, it took a lot of gumption within our community to stay
firm to our principles. I mean, I know I was in DM screaming at people like, no, let the swaps
flow. Like this is, this is first principle sub. This is who we are. This is what we're going to
do. And our node operators, they did it. They held their own. They held firm to our principles,
but you got to understand how crazy this was. It 1.5 billion dollars and how it goes through thor
chain is there streaming swaps and streaming swap is like a swap that's broken into several
sub swaps and arbitrageurs come in between the sub swaps and rebalance the pools right
this is excellent price execution but it takes time to do. Now, these streaming swaps, they were like a few million.
I forget how big they were, Kenton, but they were going through our pools over a period of days.
These swaps are happening nonstop for days.
And our node operators had to withstand the enormous pressure and watch this go through each and every day through our pools.
And we did it.
And to Kenton's point and Enstoppel's point,
it was one of the greatest marketing opportunities with ThorChain
because we proved we were decentralized and that we meant what we said
and that we are interested in a permissionless infrastructure.
And yes, did you want to add something to that, Kenton?
I want to add some more color.
For anyone who's new to
what that story about door chain it wasn't unanimous by the nodes there there was actually
a lot of disagreement and uh there's a there's a mini node node war for lack of a better term
where some nodes started pausing the ethereum trades other nodes reverse it to resume it. And just the way ThorChain works,
it can go back and forth like a tug of war. And we had at the time was like over 40 nodes
on this tug of war. And it ended up, became 21 to 20 in favor of having the ETH swaps continue.
And the ETH swaps continue.
And then we had, oh, I don't know, I'm guessing at least 10 or 20 nodes,
maybe 10, 20% of the network leave.
Because those node operators, they didn't want to support this,
worried about the authorities, whatever their reasons were,
were not comfortable with that activity going through a door chain.
And they left.
And so this wasn't like a kumbaya, everything, all the nodes just got a log and everything moved forward.
It was a real stress test for the protocol.
And I want to say in the depths of that, I think we got as low as like 84 nodes, low 80s. And since then,
the communities rallied and we've recovered. And last I looked, we're at 119 nodes. Maybe we're
at 120 now. I don't know. But we basically, I'm not saying those node operators came back. I think we have a bunch of new nodes, new node operators have come.
And so I think it's fair to say
that the node operator set today
is they're definitely on board with permissionless
and letting things go.
ThorChain isn't here to play judge, jury, executioner.
It's a neutral platform,
just like Ethereum and Bitcoin.
And if there's any... I disagree with that.
I don't know what the hell they're still doing here,
to be honest.
I feel it wouldn't make sense
for somebody to still be here
and disagree with that.
So it was really great to see new nodes, new node operators and bond providers all jump in to fill that void from those that left.
And now we're back up to basically more nodes and more rune bonded than before the Bybit hack.
So ThorChain, in essence essence is stronger than ever now uh hey kenton i gotta i just um i'm gonna take
a quick pause um it's pretty crazy there's a fire right next to my neighborhood right now so uh
give me a second to make sure it's like someone i don't know so i'm just gonna be uh silent for a
little bit sorry guys no you're good um well maybe anybody else here? I'm sorry, I'm not co-hosting. I can't see if there's any other speakers. Anybody else want to jump up and say anything, ask a question?
Hey guys, Coke here. I did have my hand up. Can you hear me?
I can hear you. Go ahead, Coke.
Go ahead, Koke.
So actually, what I want to add is that this decision when the node battle happened,
like can we go through with the swaps or not, we have to add a little bit spice to this story as well.
Because our network was actually already one knee down from Thor5 Unwind,
and a lot of nodes actually left.
There was a lot of price pressure when it came to Rune token.
So it wasn't just, oh, should we let those North Korean swaps go through or not?
We were in an extremely vulnerable place as well.
And that actually added a lot of complexity to the network to operate as well.
So I just wanted to add this
it wasn't in the like comfort zone like should we should we do what we should not do there we
had like a three fires at the same time that we had to uh play around absolutely yeah and it was um
how do you interpret that coke do you think the the Thorify mess made the by bit decision easier
or made it harder for nodes?
I think it made harder.
Because as you know, if you're a node operator,
you have to have at least 300 000 runes so there was so you had to
juggle like the financial financial decision that you were already most likely down a lot plus
philosophical plus does the i don't know it depending where you are located at will somebody
come and knock knock at your door? So there was like we have this
Runtard who actually
was actually really scared of
this situation. I'm not sure of
scared but worried.
And aftermath
for Runtard actually was that
he is the weak link of the
throat chain. He is like
he operates a couple
of nodes. I'm not sure how many, but he can be one of those
persons that can be pinned down. And that's amazing. He started actually teaching his own
competition to spin up nodes. So these things don't happen again. So we spread out more of those
nodes between different people
and different parties. And that's why we have this churn period as well. So we have always
those fresh nodes. And that's why we actually want to raise our node cap as well, a little
bit higher. So we have more independent people in different continents some are talks like you can't on some are not talks they can be in
russia for example or asia or wherever and it will be a perfect solution for this really complex
problem yeah and just add more to the the thorfy debacle that happened in january and the room price
tank was tanking and tanked because of it. And someone might see that and think,
well, that's why the nodes let the buy bit trades go through
because they wanted to support the rune price
and get the rune price up and basically benefit off of it.
I think it's a valid criticism or thought.
But yeah, I don't think that was,
I mean, in the grand scheme of things,
like no one made any real money off of that.
You know, the nodes,
like at the room price right now,
it's like $1, I don't know, it's $1.30 something.
Like it's barely any higher today
than it was in
february um and you know the amount of fees are negligible compared to the fees that can be earned
over the next several years and in the previous several years so there's no real yeah i wouldn't
say absolutely we couldn't say that those fees covered the... Because we have to add in the reputation, like XSAC, BTC, whatever he was at our dose.
He has quite of influence as well.
So he was like blaming us that we are doing what we're supposed to do,
that we said we're going to do a lot of bad publicity.
We have a lot of soft fathers from the... So there was a lot of bad publicity. We have a lot of soft fodders from the Thor.
So there was a lot of people who got hurt with Thorfy.
Imagine if something happens again with Thorfy.
I mean, something happens again with the Rune or Thor chain.
They all jumped in again to point fingers at us as well.
So it was like
triple damage and like
you earned
let's see what we
earned I think we earned
1 or
2% of
the stake
in 4 days or 5
or 6 days so we
earned 1% of our money back in six days,
but we had this tremendous pressure, reputation damage or blaming or finger pointing.
Because at that time, nodes were fighting and we had this inner conflict.
That's why we couldn't spin it up as a really good marketing stunt.
Like, hey, North Korea uses us.
Must be good.
We were scrambling, so there was no time to spin it up in a better way or something like that.
I think it was a net loss at that time.
Maybe in the future, it's going to build up
and as a case study or shows that we are really good
and maybe that's why Unstoppable Domain picked us up, maybe not
