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⛓️Chain in Focus #6: Inside Kadena
Recorded: July 3, 2024 Duration: 0:47:48Space Recording
Full Transcription
You know, it's can't complain and been busy, been busy.
I think, did I see you in Austin, you know, at ConsenSys?
I can't remember if I can't remember if I can't remember if I did see you or not, but I'm
going to be seeing you next week anyway for ETC.
That's right.
So, yeah.
So, yeah.
So, yeah.
So, yeah, excited.
And thanks for having me.
Awesome.
No, it's definitely a pleasure.
We have a pleasure.
We've known each other in real life now for quite some time.
So, awesome to have you on stage here.
And share with us all the exciting things that you guys are really focused on, you know, bring
this to life and share this with the communities.
what we've been doing together and Kadena's positioning now and moving forward.
So maybe we can just kick things off with an introduction on your side, Nick.
We always like to start with a little bit of background and just, you know,
a quick hearing from our speakers about their journey and how long they've been in the crypto space
and, you know, kind of where they're at now in terms of their role on, let's say, the Kadena team.
Sure. I mean, so, you know, pretty decent history in crypto.
I first kind of got interested 2015, well, 2014, someone said, have you seen this Bitcoin thing?
And I started going down the rabbit hole 2015 properly.
I had the pleasure of meeting Dr. Gavin Wood in London whilst he was actually still with Ethereum back in the day.
And that really kind of sparked my interest in terms of what's going on.
But my kind of trade and training came from TradFi.
So I worked within a couple of tier one investment banks and then a hedge fund
and did a fair bit of kind of tech consultancy in London from 2016 onwards.
And then dived in full time with my first actual role in Web3 working in a DEX in the Cosmos ecosystem
and joined Kadena probably about 14, 15 months ago to kind of lead DeFi.
And I kind of say it in this way of open bracket, re-closed bracket, launching DeFi on Kadena.
And obviously, that's how we've got, you know, a nice partnership going with you guys at DIA.
Absolutely. And I mean, let's just dive in right from there, right?
You mentioned open bracket, closed bracket, launching DeFi at Kadena.
But so many of us in the audience are aware of the pretty thorough and broad history of Kadena within the blockchain space.
Right. So what does that really mean in your eyes?
You know, how is what's what's the status of Kadena today?
How is this evolved over the years, you know, because because even in the last cycle, right, when I was before I entered also my experience working in Web3,
when I was just, you know, more on the, you know, investment side, you couldn't go to you couldn't go anywhere to a crypto meetup without hearing about Kadena.
So there's been a lot of relevance surrounding Kadena for quite some time.
How has this evolved? And what do you guys, you know, how has this changed as you're currently positioned today?
Yeah, it's I mean, the Kadena stories, it's a fantastic story.
You know, it was built at J.P. Morgan, which, you know, a lot of a lot of maybe kind of decentralized maxis might think, you know, what does that mean?
But it was actually archetypes and like the, you know, Will and Stu created ChainWeb, the actual blockchain itself and packed the smart contract with language,
which is kind of like Haskell based, I would say, but it was created even from its origin to to manage, you know, millions of transactions simultaneously.
You know, it was created for FX equities, fixed income trading for J.P. Morgan.
And it was I would I would kind of say like the Onyx before Onyx and and it was a private blockchain up until I think 2019 and then it and then it switched to a public blockchain.
So it's got the kind of even pedigree and it's always had that purpose of being able to manage extremely large volumes of transactions simultaneously.
And and with the added edge and this is really the kicker for me, because, as you know, Dylan, you know, I'm obviously a big Bitcoin fan as well.
And and, you know, it's it's all done on a proof of work chain and it's got a very solid and existing kind of minor network.
You know, we don't we've never had any kind of stoppages, anything or anything of that kind.
It's not built in solidity.
You know, it's not something that we're kind of afraid to say.
You know, it's all that all the smart contracts are built within PACT, which, you know, it's it's obviously got some some advantages.
It has some disadvantages as well, obviously, for maybe having portability for some of the Ethereum dApps, etc.
But as we've seen a lot of a lot of solidity builders, once they kind of get stuck into PACT, they actually prefer it.
And they quite enjoy building some building some stuff in it.
We've been recently and I say recently, probably in the last 12, 18 months, you know, we've been looking at zero knowledge even before it was really trendy.
And our CTO is a big fan of the applications and use of zero knowledge within blockchain.
We've recently hired a new chief business officer, my boss.
So, you know, but fantastic, really, really kind of like reinvigorated and energized a lot of the direction and and.
And I guess, like strategic planning that we've got for the next six, 12 months with with maybe a bit more of a kind of where TradFi meets DeFi perspective.
And we've got some really kind of exciting dApps and apps and builders that have built some decent stuff on there.
We've got a really prominent deep in project that's been cranking along.
It's called Crank with two K's and obviously some DEXs.
We've got a supply chain.
We've done some bits and pieces with private enterprise as well on the on the maybe supply chain stuff.
We've got another project called DNA and also a certification business, but specifically for developers and bringing on, you know, online certificates and making sure that when you're seeing what someone's actually achieved and completed within a course, it's real and it's not fake.
And it just takes away all the hassle of, you know, having to go and kind of treble check that what you've been told is is true.
So we've got some games on there, got some gaming stuff.
I see Ron is in the audience, wizards and a couple of others as well.
So it's it's not doing too bad.
We've got decent stats on the transaction volumes, you know, like 350,000, 400,000, I think kind of daily.
And obviously it's all helped by having extremely low transaction fees.
I love it.
I love to see the the members, these these DAP teams within the Kandana ecosystem here on the call today.
Right.
Showing their strength.
So shouts out to all of you guys who are, you know, showing your your the strength of the ecosystem here and attending.
Really appreciate that.
Also really interesting.
Didn't know that Chain Web Impact itself was originally, you know, conceptualized and developed by JP Morgan.
So just to just to clarify, again, anybody in the audience, you know, who's kind of trying to familiarize themselves with these terms.
Right.
Kandana and correct me, Nick, if I'm if I'm mistaken here at all.
But Kandana is the essentially the foundation behind in that supporting the development of Chain Web.
So Chain Web is how you refer in the name of the blockchain that is actually being developed here.
Right.
The proof of work.
That's correct.
Yeah.
OK, cool.
So let's take this a little bit high level real quick again, because you jumped through a bunch of exciting things there.
Right.
You mentioned in first of all, I think it's super important to hone in on the fact that Chain Web is itself a proof of work blockchain.
You know, in contrast to today's kind of like blockchain landscape, where seemingly the, you know, most, if not like 90 percent of blockchains launching are proof of stake.
Right.
Can you take us through that?
What are you know, why originally was Chain Web launched as proof of work?
And maybe take us walk us through some of the pros and cons of, you know, still having a proof of work blockchain in an industry where the evolution is suggesting perhaps, you know, a favorite towards proof of stake.
Sure.
So, I mean, so Stuart Popejoy, the co-founder, Will Martino, obviously extremely big fans of the security aspects that Bitcoin provided.
You know, even even back in the day when, you know, there weren't really a million different EVMs, you know, you only really had kind of Ethereum and I guess Ethereum Classic once once Ethereum forked, you know, but but really, really a big advocate of a strong security aspect that you get from that proof of work system.
And, you know, one of the kind of key advisors that we have at Kadena that is, you know, extremely useful and helpful for lots of different members of the team is a chap called Stuart Haber.
Stuart Haber, who many people may not necessarily have heard of, he's one of the most cited individuals in Satoshi's original white paper for Bitcoin.
And, you know, when he, I think when he obviously saw the kind of like architecture and dynamics of how Chainweb itself would be functioning, was very excited to get involved with the project.
Chainweb itself, it acts as braided chains.
So even though it is technically one chain, it's actually acting as 20 chains currently.
You know, it was initially it was one, then it was five chains.
Now it's 20.
The kind of infinite scalability comes from the fact that as we need it, as the transaction volumes require it, you can add additional chains into Chainweb.
So you could scale it from 20 to 40, for example, if you wanted to tomorrow.
And you could take your TPS from 500 to 2,000 up to probably what would be, you know, I think from the estimates, 400,000 TPS would be your perfect number.
But having that braided effect of the actual chains means that you maintain a proof of work network whilst being able to actually scale it, which as much as I love Bitcoin, don't get me wrong.
You know, anyone who's seen anything with maybe ordinals or runes or some of the other attempts at kind of inscriptions, you know, you suddenly your transaction fees go crazy and nothing settles on on Bitcoin and you're waiting four hours for a block to settle.
So that's where the initial kind of thinking and architecture for it came from.
Nick, I love chatting with you because it's so funny how we have these like similar like passions and focuses in the crypto space.
Right. Like you, you were originally like a heavy Polkadot guy and went into Cosmos with the AppChain Infra.
Now you have a huge focus on the Bitcoin landscape and right developing proof of work blockchains.
I feel like whenever we chat, we get along, we get on with these conversations.
So it's true.
It's true.
It really is.
You've given away my portfolio history right now.
I'm just summarizing.
I'm just summarizing what you've said so far.
No, that's super cool, right?
Because we all understand or at least the benefits of having proof of work on security and decentralization are cannot be argued against.
Right.
But then when you look at the limitations there, right, you run into the trilemma with scalability.
And so it's interesting how you guys are taking this braided approach.
Right.
To kind of combat these limitations and scalability.
And when you look at Kadena at a high level, one of the overall visions and promises is this term infinite scalability.
One thing I want to relate that back to and that I wanted to ask you about was when the kind of like when you log on to the Kadena website or rather when you when you access it, the largest bold letters on the site read powering the human layer of blockchain.
Right.
Right.
We've already learned that this was originally created by JP Morgan and they created this at its origin to support millions of transactions and support scalability.
What does this mean?
Right.
When we look at scalability, when we look at all these things, connecting proof of work, what is the vision powering the human layer of blockchain really mean?
And how does that relate to, you know, Kadena's architecture and goals?
It's an interesting one because, I mean, even as I was walking the kind of conference halls of, you know, ETH Denver and again at ConsenSys, it was the first time that I actually saw other other blockchains kind of even including the word human on it since the very first kind of conferences I went to.
And it was actually something that Stuart Haber coined on a, on a, on a, on a, we used to do these kind of like YouTube videos with Stuart and Stuart, Stuart Pope, Stuart Haber.
And really what we mean by it is we're not just, we're not trying to, you know, enable technology to suddenly overpower exactly what we're, what we're trying to do in real life.
You know, we're, we're trying to empower people to be able to do things.
So, you know, for example, with, with the, let's say we take the developer certification that was, that was kind of created, you know, they've got like a hundred thousand developers that are, we're talking like JavaScript, TypeScript.
Rust, Rust, et cetera.
They're completing online courses and, you know, they're learning, they're adding value to themselves.
And at the end of it, they're getting a certificate.
Unfortunately, with a lot of maybe, you know, job interview processes and things like that that are going on, it's extremely difficult to tell, or it's extremely expensive, or it's extremely rigorous to have to verify.
Did this person actually complete this piece of training?
And, and, and really, so if you, if you want to try and maybe take a practical example of how that human layer comes in, if you can instantly verify if what someone is telling you is correct, based on the, you know, based on a, on a blockchain transaction and what happened at a certain point in time, you, you're actually empowering humans to show what their value is and show what their worth is.
So I know it's, maybe it sounds a tiny bit abstract, but there's other applications for it as well.
And really what we're trying to do is make people's lives easier.
You know, we're trying to make it so that, you know, your, your management of your own kind of personal wealth on chain is easier.
You know, it's, it's always annoying, you know, like if you, if something goes wrong with your bank account and you have to suddenly go to customer service and you're on hold for three hours, you know, this is the whole point of maybe why DeFi is going to be so important in the, in the next few years.
And we just wanted to really make it, make it obvious that we genuinely care about obviously people.
And even though we're a technology company, you know, we're not like maybe the technology companies that simply just want your data and want to, want to palm you off to whoever you might be.
And, and really like our main purpose and focus is trying to empower humans to do more things and, and have a, you know, a better life in some way, shape or form.
It's, it's, it's a very large, you know, goal, right.
And it's the goal that we, that we need more teams to be focused on in this space.
When I chat with like my friends who aren't in the space, you know, they say, okay, I'll, I'll get involved in crypto when it can actually impact my everyday life.
Right.
Like what's the, what's the go to market use case for, you know, bringing the masses online.
Um, and I just want to pick your brain on this a little bit more, right.
You mentioned like management of personal wealth.
Um, well, if you don't mind, it's kind of like brainstorming and shooting.
Well, it's just like, you know, you know, Nick, think about it like this, think about it like this, right.
So in terms of how many billions and billions of people are out there, right.
So if you want to go and set up a bank account, then you need to fit certain criteria.
You know, you need to be able to even maybe go to a branch.
You need, you know, you, you need to have, maybe you need to receive a debit card from, from the bank, or you need to rely on Apple pay or Google pay or whoever it might be to add your card details.
So if you then think about it from a, a, a kind of decentralized aspect, you don't need any of these things.
You know, you, all you need is a wallet and, you know, either a smartphone or a laptop or a computer.
And you literally, you're off to the races, um, you know, you can, you can purchase, you know, insurance on, on chain now.
Um, you know, there's, there's so many different aspects of what has always been, you know, not easy to attain for the vast majority of, of the planet's population, which is now attainable through decentralized applications or, or through, um, through specific blockchains that are offering, you know, services.
So it, you know, it's always like, you know, banking the unbanked is a, is always a really good way of saying it, but that is genuinely a problem.
You know, I was recently in Indonesia and, um, you know, obviously cash is king out there, but there aren't any, there's barely any ATMs in, in, in some of the areas where, you know, you have vibrant villages there.
So, and there's definitely no banks or bank branches, et cetera.
But ironically, they've got wifi and they've got electricity.
So, so you, you know, you, you've suddenly got this ability to reach people that traditional finance hasn't necessarily been able to either help or empower.
And, and, and I do believe that blockchain is getting us, um, a lot, a lot closer to being able to help these people.
I absolutely agree.
And, and my, and, you know, one of the mistakes that I made in my last question, right.
Is again, assuming that my friends who are asking these questions are, are a strong representation of the demand for this globally.
What you just referenced is so important.
Um, you know, I'm in the U S right.
But if you look outside the U S the use case for stable coins, for example, right.
For remittance payments and cross-border transfers is growing so fast, right.
It's the, it's, it's growing at such a high rate, um, outside of the context of the U S in, in, of maybe like Europe, right.
Is where we start to see these use cases really have, um, a promising impact.
Um, I, I, I guess like kick things off and get them off the ground.
Um, and then ideally over time, um, we start to see these have a larger impact in the U S in Europe as well, with the tokenization of assets with probably more of these, you know, uh, rural asset, you know, like fund managers being able to tokenize assets.
Stable coins is key and, and like the, you know, this is something that, you know, again, like just speaking personally, don't want to speak on behalf of absolutely everybody, but stable coins is absolutely key to really, you know, if you want to take it back to that human layer aspect of empowering the human layer, then it's definitely key for that.
You know, one of the largest, um, currencies by, by kind of volume outside of obviously the U S dollar is the Turkish lira.
And, and, and why is that?
It's because a lot of users in Turkey that have been absolutely decimated by hyperinflation wanted to enter assets that hopefully wouldn't be affected by the, by their like local hyperinflation, et cetera.
But at the same time, they could exit into a currency that they can then use for their everyday life.
So, and that's one thing that's definitely going to be a, a big focus for, for Kodena going forward is, is, uh, on stable coins and, um, and various applications of how that can help people.
And, and, and the use cases around it, not just for maybe the obvious of trying to trade BTC, USDT, you know, but, but other applications there as well.
And, and really you touched on it is, you know, it's something that you, you know, the U S dollar has definitely become number one in the stable coin world.
And, you know, you had news today from SOC gen, um, meeting the MECA regulations on, um, on their Euro, uh, stable coin, you know, circle with their Euro stable coin again as well.
And, and, and, and, and, and how we hopefully adapt and, and, and, and work and pivot to make sure that it's a success is, is something we're definitely focused on at Kodena.
Well, I'm really happy to hear that because this has really been top of mind on my side as well at DIA in how we can continue to tackle and support right price feeds and provide data for all of these different stable coins that are launching.
So I'm happy to hear that you guys are having a, you know, a strong focus on this and we can do this in collaboration with you guys.
I agree.
Like stable coins for me are really becoming the best, or I guess rather the most used use case of, if you would argue like DeFi right now.
Right.
Um, I read a crazy news title or a news article the other day that suggested, or rather stated that stable coin issuers, um, now are like the 18th largest holder of U S debt.
Right.
And, and, and that like USDC has like holds more U S treasuries than like other nations.
Um, it is growing at such a crazy rate and it's, it's almost becoming so in our face that, um, the use case is impossible to ignore anymore.
Not that we were ever trying to, but it's crazy, right?
Yeah.
You know, if you, if you go back to when interest rates were, you know, close to zero, none of the stable coin issuers had any interest in holding any kind of debt.
And now the interest rates have obviously been going up, um, you know, for the majority of them, they, they want to pass on that interest rate or interest, sorry, interest born on, on the actual, um, underlying currency itself to the users, which is fantastic, which is how it should be, you know?
And, and, and, and again, if you, if you go back to that kind of trad fire and defy aspect of it, you know, you get a savings rate from your bank, um, but they're taking, they're taking a pretty kind of decent size sliver of it.
And, and, and that's definitely somewhat something that defy is, is trying to, trying to overcome.
I mean, I've seen some, some interest rates on USDC, USDT, like 140%, you know, from, um, from liquidity pools.
I would love to find any kind of offering anywhere, which is similar to that in the trad fly world.
It's a, I think it's, it is impossible, right?
So that's something that defy can offer that the trad fly can't obviously not financial advice, do your own research, but these are the opportunities that are out there right now.
Um, you, you beat me to the, uh, to the NFA, uh, not financial advice, little disclaimer there.
Anytime we're talking about yield in three figures, I'm going to have to be very cautious on that.
Um, no, but definitely, definitely super interesting to see how this is growing and exploding, right?
Reaching this like Cambrian explosion point of, of adoption here in terms of stables.
Um, I want to switch up a little bit, bring the, bring the conversation back in and talk a little bit more about, uh, our connection.
Right.
The, the partnership in, uh, between DIA and Kadena and furthermore, the integration and what this means for the Kadena ecosystem.
Could you talk about this?
Maybe just elaborate a little bit on, on the importance of Oracle tooling on chain web.
It'd be super interesting.
I think for, you know, your audience in the Kadena ecosystem and our audience at DIA to better understand any context of how this came to life.
And like, this is not a copy paste EVM integration, right?
This is chain web that's proof of work written and packed with different, um, braided chains.
Can you give a little bit of background?
I don't know on, on sort of like how it, how this fits into the DIA or rather how DIA fits within the context of Kadena's, uh, rather architecture.
Definitely.
I mean, so, you know, we, we did quite a comprehensive review, um, across a lot of the different Oracle providers.
And you guys came out, you know, very, very high on a lot of different metrics, um, which, which is why we really were keen to partner with you guys.
Uh, you know, we have a, a lending protocol that's going to be, um, launching hopefully in the next, maybe couple of weeks.
Um, we've got, which is obviously going to be using the, uh, the, the pricing Oracle that you guys are providing.
Um, we've got a bridge that's coming as well.
Um, hopefully end of August, maybe beginning of September sometime.
Um, obviously don't hold me on, on specifically on the, the full dates, but that's the, uh, that's the, the very likely scenario.
So, and, and DIA's pricing fits into both of those, you know, we've got obviously some on-chain DEXs and, and how we can maybe introduce those DEXs into some additional aggregators.
Plus we've got a whole load of community of builders that are, that are building other bits and pieces, and they want to get a whole multitude of different pricing involved in their applications.
And now they're able to do that, um, you know, through the, through the Oracle that you guys are providing.
Yeah, it's super exciting.
I think that, uh, on my end, it's, it's the most fun part of the collaboration is after the integration is live and then really being able to, you know, support the dApps in the ecosystem.
Right now we've worked together to make sure, you know, to finalize the integration and collaborate between our teams on the technical side.
And now Nick, you and I get to collaborate more closely on like, you know, the, the, rather like, you know, the BD and the outreach side, really supporting all these different dApps.
And, and, and making this come to life and, and satisfy the needs of the, the different, uh, teams and ecosystems.
So it's exciting to see this and really excited to kick this off in this next stage of our partnership here.
And thank you for adding the context on that.
Um, no problem.
And like, just to say as well, it, you know, it's obviously because we're proof of work with our own smart contract language.
You know, it isn't just the kind of plug and play, um, and, and, and the integration work that the guys in your team did.
And, and obviously some of the assistants that our team did, but it went extremely smoothly and I could not have been happier for the, uh, for how it turned out and, and how unstressful it was.
So really hats off to everybody that, that did that and, um, and, and got the, uh, got the job done.
Yeah, I'm glad to hear that.
Um, you know, getting outside of the EVM environments is, is promising for us, I think, right?
We get to partner with new innovative environments where dApps are pushing the frontier, right?
Teams that have decided not just to copy paste into a new ecosystem.
While we love the EVM side, we find that there's pros and cons to both.
Um, and so, you know, kind of like these, some of these pros and cons you've been, you, you addressed earlier, but I think it's a great opportunity for us from both sides to, to go forward here.
Um, you know, I know, I know you're a big fan of Bitcoin layer twos, as am I.
And, and so, you know, it's expanding into that whole network of, um, of ecosystems is, I think really important for, for, for even blockchain itself, you know, and so much TVL is trapped.
I don't want to say, maybe trapped is in the right word, but say, should we say cemented in that Bitcoin overall, you know, like 5% of, of Bitcoin's TVL is actually distributed anywhere.
And, and, and then even wrapped Bitcoin on ETH makes up a big part of the ETH TVL, you know?
So, you know, the fact that you guys clearly see, you know, other, other ecosystems, which aren't necessarily EVM as, as having progression is a really good thing, I think, for the whole industry itself.
I appreciate that.
Yeah.
I mean, it's also, it's, it's a great opportunity, right?
Um, it's, I, I agree.
I mean, there's so much liquidity locked in, in that ecosystem.
That's such an opportunity.
Um, when, and, you know, like we're discussing the pros and cons of, of, or rather the pros of proof of work, right?
When you're, when you're envisioning all of these trillions or, you know, let's say billions of, of real world assets that will be collateralized and brought on chain, you know, where is this going to end up?
Is it going to end up in the most decentralized and, uh, you know, secure ecosystem that, or that there is?
Um, we'll see.
I'm not sure.
Actually, I'll actually, ETH is making a large promise for, for tackling and bringing that, those assets on chain as well.
So I don't want to get ahead of myself and make any, you know, don't forget Solana.
You know, don't forget Solana as well.
That is true.
That is true.
You know, one of my, one of my favorite, and obviously being kind of like the DeFi guy, one of my favorite DeFi projects is Jupiter, Jupiter Exchange, and had the pleasure of meeting one of the co-founders there in, um, in Austin.
And it was, you know, it's fantastic just what they're trying to do, how they're trying to keep it extremely simple, but at the same time effective.
So, you know, making sure that all of this, all of the interoperability between these chains does continue and, you know, capital will reside where capital feels it's most efficient, you know, to be placed.
So having an interoperability and giving the people the option of moving capital around is extremely important for the success of this industry as a whole.
Absolutely agreed.
And I'm really looking forward to that moment of inflection when liquidity becomes less fragmented and starts to become more collective.
You know what I mean?
I think that that's going to be a huge, a huge advancement for this industry.
Um, but yeah, you're right.
Can't forget about Solana and there's a couple other like pretty notable ones up there as well.
Um, just to, just to kind of reel it back in.
Sorry, I got a call there.
I probably went out, but I'm back.
Um, just to reel it back in, right.
We've talked in depth already about the technical advantages of chain web, um, that, you know, the benefits that developers experience when integrating into the ecosystem.
So apart from the technical aspects, you're that, you're the, you know, you're in charge and the head of, of DeFi here, right?
Um, what does this look like from your side as it relates to ecosystem initiatives?
You know, ecosystem initiatives for growing the user base, growing the amount of dApps.
Um, maybe this is a good chance to like kind of share with anybody in the audience who's a developer and might be interested in exploring the chain web ecosystem.
Are there any types of ecosystem initiatives that you think they should be aware of, or, um, you know, what has been successful in the past in terms of growing the developer base?
Yeah.
I mean, um, our CMO is probably going to already kill me anyway, because I, I put some dates on, uh, when some things should be coming out.
But, but from a, from perspective of, you know, getting developers to join the ecosystem, you know, we're looking to really try and innovate, you know, and, and it's, it's not necessarily just about maybe.
Replicating or, you know, a lot of, what do you get with a lot of EVM change, which is forking, et cetera.
You know, that's fantastic.
You know, it's great.
Maybe forking something, but maybe innovating and taking that thing to the next level, or even coming up with a brand new idea.
But, you know, if I can talk about another project that's, that's recently kind of joined the, the Cadena ecosystem called, um, Finux, Finu Labs, and, um, it's a predictions market.
Based on, um, predictions for financial markets, whether it's going to be, what do you expect the interest rate to be?
What do you expect, um, you know, GameStop shares to be, or, you know, obviously they've got a lot more than that.
But it's an, it's an interesting product that actually can generate value.
You know, you, people can use it to either hedge positions, take positions outright, et cetera, all done on chain.
You know, that you're not going to have some broker.
That's going to give you maybe not the best price that you would, that you would be getting somewhere else.
And, and you, you're actually completely and utterly in charge of, you know, setting up your own positions and the team that literally came in with the idea, um, you know, looking for a grant and, and, um, it's exactly what, what our kind of grants program was, um, was set up for, which is innovating, you know, driving actually the technology that we've got.
On Kodena, you know, smart contracts that are doing stuff that haven't been done before, um, and, and, and really growing the user base.
And I think they had something crazy, like, um, a hundred thousand plus, um, signups and 60,000, um, users getting stuck in, which are great numbers, especially for, for anyone that's, you know, wanting and wishing the Kodena ecosystem to do well.
And that's literally just from one, one dap.
So, you know, if you've got an idea, if you, if you really want to get stuck in, if you think you've got, um, you know, an opportunity to, to build something great, um, and maybe you don't want to do it in solidity, um, then, um, you know, Kodena could be the place.
That's excellent. Um, I mean, we definitely found it to be, uh, a place of opportunity at, uh, idea. Right. So, um, can attest.
They should be using your price speeds for some of the stuff as well, just so you know, Dylan.
Absolutely. I'm looking forward to it. Definitely. Um, exactly. Yeah, definitely. I need to, any developers in need of on chain price feeds, right? In need of oracles. Feel free to reach out to us. Now, you know, this partnership is live. We are on, I don't want to be mistaken here, but I'm going to take a stab at it. I think we are on chain six. Uh, is that correct?
Chain four. Chain four. I was going to, you knew I was going to say four. I started saying four and I came out like six.
You're on chain, you're on chain four, but the, the prices will be available across any of the other chains as well. And that's correct. It's, it's something that we've been, we've been getting stuck into. So, um, you know, look, we're absolutely delighted to have it. We've got, you know, we've got plans and, and obviously this is, you know, my job of trying to get buy-in and, and, and persuading the right people
to say yes, but we've got plans for a few more developments within the DeFi space. Um, you know, we've, we've recently had, um, some, some, some development going
towards, um, the NFT pieces as well. Um, with, with something called Marmalade, which is basically our NFT standards, um, and, and others as well, other areas.
Like, and I mentioned that, that deep in project crank, which has been really, really driving, um, driving some, some great adoption for not just use of chain web,
but actual interest in, in Canada and attracting even more people to the ecosystem. So fingers crossed, it keeps going that way.
Absolutely. Seeming, I feel confident that it will, um, especially in, in, in great hands, uh, as yours, Nick, as a head of, as head of DeFi there.
Um, yeah, so I just want to, you know, we're coming in on, on 45 minutes here. I think attention drops off after 45 minutes.
So we, we, we look to shoot for 45 here. I'm also, um, on my end, I think this has been a super thorough call.
Um, really exciting that I got to dive into, you know, like more of your mindset and how you guys are, are focused and, you know, tackling all these really different, exciting kind of like narratives and opportunities that we see in crypto.
Right. Um, I just want to ask Nick, like, is there anything that we missed before I kind of close off here?
Like any, I know I already kind of, uh, grilled you to share more than you probably already would have liked to, with, you know, giving some dates and whatnot, but I just want to make sure we didn't miss anything.
Right. We ironed in on a little bit of the ZK. Um, I think it was important to talk about these, uh, this NFT, um, kind of standard and the approach for NFTs you guys are building out.
Um, just want to make sure we didn't miss anything other than that.
Um, um, we've got, I mean, just, we've got a new indexer coming. Um, we've got a few other new bits and pieces coming.
I would defer to obviously, you know, marketing team to, to, to give any more info out on that, but I'm extremely excited.
You know, like I know we're, you know, July time, 2024. And all I can say is the team have been building and building and building and getting stuck into as many different areas as we possibly can.
Um, and, and there's just, there's a lot more to come. There really is a lot more to come.
Um, and I'm, I'm extremely excited, um, to be heading to ECC and speaking to, you know, other partners and other builders and, uh, and seeing where we land for, you know, end of Q3.
Absolutely. And just to wrap it up here, anybody in the audience who is interested in exploring the chain web, uh, ecosystem, Nick, as either a user, right.
Like an enthusiast or as a builder, um, where would you refer them to go?
You mentioned, you mentioned, you know, state-to-date with marketing. Um, what are the resources that you, you would encourage people to check out for next steps?
I mean, definitely discord, you know, head into the discord channels. Um, we've got, um, Kareena Academy, um, which is there for, you know, entry level, mid, senior.
If you, if you want to start writing packed smart contracts and, and, and get stuck in and, you know, one of the other things that you can do is you can obviously see every single smart contract that's ever been written on impact, um, through the, one of the new modules that we've created.
So you can even, if you want to, you don't have to replicate work. If someone's already built something that you want to use, you can, you can hit the ground running and, and take what's already been built.
So I would definitely say discord's the place to go. Um, a lot of our devs are in there regularly checking in. Um, if, if people get extremely lost, feel free to send me a message on, on X as well. Um, or, or even just send a message directly to the, you know, official Kareena X account.
Awesome. Excellent. Um, and at that, I just want to wrap up here and say, thank you, Nick, for joining us. Thank you for the Kareena team for, for having, for joining us as well. Um, and everybody in the audience, this has been a super intensive session.
One of our, one of our largest active audiences, I would say so far. So, um, I think it just kind of demonstrates the interest that people have in this collaboration and, uh, kind of echoes my excitement for what's to come here.
So, Nick, um, goodbye for now. I'll see you probably in less than a week from now.
I'm looking forward to it.
Absolutely.
Thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate it.
My pleasure. Excellent. Yeah. Looking forward to it as well. Um, anybody who's going to be at ECC next week, as Nick said, we're hosting an InfraGardens side event. Check it out on the DIA homepage here.
We'd love to see you and, uh, and chat and learn more about what you're building.
Um, and yeah, I'm going to close off. Thank you everybody for another great episode of chain and focus, and we'll see you on the next one.
Have a great rest of your, uh, have a great rest of your day. Cheers.
