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CharmVerse Chats w/ Kazm
Recorded: Dec. 22, 2022 Duration: 0:38:00Space Recording
Full Transcription
Awesome.
Should I dab right in?
Yeah.
So wait, I see we have someone else from Chasm as well.
Who else do we have here?
Here we have Natalie, who runs Growth and Product.
Hi, Natalie.
Nice to meet you.
Thanks for joining us.
Hey, everyone.
Nice to meet you too.
All right, so I feel like we're going to talk to you know,
who's going to be a person in the chat, but we're going to do the way to look at one of the
And then, the other day we're going to talk to you know, so we're going to talk to you know,
we're going to talk to you know, for us that's a tool, but we're going to talk to you know,
I'm going to talk to you about how to open up a cloud, right?
sees it that way but that's definitely what we're using yeah and that's what chasm is doing
specifically okay that's right chasm is the data-driven sorry oh no no you go tell us about
it yeah so chasm is the data-driven crm for went through we basically plug into every community
touchpoint so socials like discord and twitter on-chain data um from different blockchains
and specific smart contracts and first-party data we have sdks to create unified customer profiles
and help you understand where those customers are coming from we then automatically segment and label
all this data with ai and we help communities use this data to optimize their growth engage their
members and automate workflows amazing i feel like this is a tool that a lot of people are going to
be really interested in learning about because in web 3 it's all about community and i think a lot
of us are looking for that community building but also the community management tool so yeah so
let's um before we go too far i just wanted to get in a little bit of the backstory um so you met your
co-founder danny franklin you guys both worked at google right
yeah that's right we were both at google before this um i was at google for a bit over six years
for the first couple years um i was working on applied machine learning solutions so we have a pretty
long background in terms of like data technology generally and danny was also focused on data
pipelining and data infrastructure um then i founded my first startup as part of google's internal
incubator area 120 and that was called a rivet it was a reading app for kids that actually used
machine learning to listen while kids read out loud to the app and give them feedback on their reading
and we grew that to be the most widely used reading app for kids worldwide within a year of launch
and danny was the lead engineer on that project so we've worked together for over five years now
um he's my favorite person to work with i think we make uh an awesome team amazing i love i just like
knowing um some founders background stories right like charm versus co-founders have now had i believe
three companies together and you know i just think the history speaks to the project as well so
very cool and then so did you sell that company and then you guys decided to start chasm together
well that was done within area 120 so google kind of technically like owns all the startups from the
beginning but you do hand it off to a google department so we got to hand ours off to the
google assistant and you know last we heard that they were um hoping to integrate that into the
assistant to make reading assistants more widely available to kids uh worldwide um obviously we're
not at google anymore so so we're not kind of in touch with what's happening with that um but yeah we
handed off the google assistant and we both left google just under two years that sounds like a very
cool tool by the way um so yeah so let's get into chasm then why did you decide to go crm tool what made
you go that direction yeah so i mean obviously we have a background in data so we were looking
for an angle to do something with data generally and one thing that got us excited about web 3
is that web 3 is basically just you know this big open database right it's a big part of the
superpowers of web 3 is a composed ability the ability of communities to build these network um
these data-driven network effects where it's not owned by a big corporation so we were looking for ways
to take advantage of that and when we started we started just interviewing tons of projects and
communities and it was really clear that there was a huge pain point around just knowing who your
community members are like they had a hard time telling when they're talking to someone in discord
am i talking to like a vip holder who can help me grow the community and has a ton of followers on
twitter um am i talking to like a rank and file member that i want to keep happy who's you know who's
out there um touting our community or is this just a spammer or speculator who really isn't
contributing and is just trying to like make a quick pop and without these unified profiles it's
really hard to know who you're dealing with and how they can help the community and it's hard to
know where the right kind of community growth is coming from and we thought this was like pretty
ironic because that whole promise of web 3 is supposed to be that open data it's that big community
owned database so we thought we could help communities put this data to work and help them use this
data to grow and engage their communities in in an authentic way yeah that's awesome because i feel
like web 3 opens up all these possibilities and all of these communities and people you can connect
with that you might not be able to otherwise but yeah how do we best manage it how do we figure out
what their skills are and like you said who are we working with we don't know so um this is a game
changer and like i said i think what a lot of people are looking for in this space um so you
started to touch on it for sure but like what changes when you go from using a web 2 uh crm tool
to a web 3 crm tool yeah so in web 2 crm was mostly helping you pull first party data from first party
sources so like when a customer is on your app or they're talking to your customer service team or
your sales team or your website um but those existing solutions don't really make a lot of
sense in web 3 because that's not really how you're interacting with your community right it's not first
party data from first party sources it's mostly these third party socials or blockchain data or
people doing things that leave a trace on chain but are actually done on third party platforms like
open c right so you kind of need to really focus on piecing together all this fragmented
information from all these fragmented community touch points there's also a really big missed
opportunity of those old tools right because in web 3 so much of this data is public right if you look
at someone's twitter profile or their wallet history you know so much about them out of the box
there's a lot more labeling and segmentation we can do out of the box for our clients so as soon as
they hook up these data sources because this data is public we can start labeling and adding
information to members that you wouldn't be able to do if these data sources were totally private
right so i have my twitter account and i have my instagram account but where's the overlap and how do i know
where that overlap is yeah that's right and also just because those are public accounts right you can
know immediately like this person's an influencer or this person's into these topics or this person
you know based on their wallet history they're likely to buy nfts that appeal to these kind of needs
um there's a lot more that you know than if you're looking at you know just the analytics from your web 2 app
where it's just the data that um is about that customer interacting with your problem right so
things can be kind of custom directed to me based on my history profile that i'm building on chain
cool yeah that's right so you actually wrote um a blog post on chasm recently entitled web 3 unlocks
communities where you kind of talk about uh how tokens can be integral to building communities and i feel
like we're going down that road so i wanted to mention it um anyone who's listening you should
definitely go on and check out the blog post really cool but let's talk about that a little bit like
um how tokens do give power to people and collectives um and dive into that a little bit more
yeah so in web 2 you kind of needed all these community platforms to be like all-in-one platforms
because switching costs are so high right so if you talk to someone who runs like a facebook group
or that has their community mostly interacting on twitter like asking them to move that community
to another platform is really hard because you're going to lose a lot of people right in web 3 the
great thing is that your relationships your memberships those aren't owned by any centralized entity
right they're all on chain so you now have this possibility of using a whole ecosystem of niche
platforms that can instantly recognize those relationships and respond to them so you can
really slap together all sorts of tools um and create a cohesive community experience with different
tools that might not be related to each other so for example like if i'm a member of an nft community
i should be able to log into a token gated chat app and instantly be put in the right groups with my
community members or i should be able to go somewhere else like a you know web 3 token gated
patreon and instantly be shown premium content that i have access to and you even have this
possibility of having members all around the world using different platforms that you as the community
leaders or the community admin aren't even aware they're using because those platforms can see the
data of who's a member and who has what status and who's related to who um who has these relationships
with who else and i think that that's a that's a huge unlock that isn't talked enough about in web 3
that it really takes these relationships and it makes it possible for collectives to move dynamically
um through digital experiences whereas before they were stuck in one digital experience yeah it really
is a game changer um you know you were saying like switching platforms in that article you talk about
like it's so hard to get a community to move from one platform to another right it's just kind of a
headache it's you know oh i don't want to sign up for another thing and i you know it's just and
this makes it so much easier to connect with your entire community um so i yeah so i really i like
you're creating an ecosystem rather than you know here's some of my group here and here's some of my
group there and how do i collect them all together so instead web 3 is creating that ecosystem
um you todd you were oh go ahead yeah no i i think that's right and i'll say it's even beyond
like memberships right so if you look at something like a farcaster where it's one-to-one relationships
um that are stored on chain that's super powerful right because now anyone can build these apps on top
of that um that immediately build on the relationships that you've stored through a farcaster whereas you
can't do that with like twitter right i have all these followers or facebook like i have all
these relationships somewhere they're on a database somewhere right but there's a central
centralized entity that's stopping other startups from building cool experiences or services on top
of those relationships but now those are on chain it really frees me to move through digital experiences
with my relationships and take those with me um and let lots of people cater and build on top of
those relationships absolutely i mean decentralization you know the power of decentralization is
is really that it's serving it's serving us right it's serving the end user um ultimately which is
which is very cool um you touched on nfts and you wrote another great article that i want to talk
about but i want to really get into chasm first so people are familiar with what we're talking about
and go check out the platform so let's break down some of the kind of the key features of chasm so you
have one a big one is managing your members right so you meant you mentioned um being able to like
segment tag and filter tell tell us more about that
yeah so when you log into chasm for the first time as a community admin you basically plug into
different community touch points so you'll connect to your smart contracts you'll sign in with twitter
you'll sign in with discord and we basically create this big member database for you
with unified profiles for every member and we have different ways of helping you tie together
those member profiles with their consent so that you know like this twitter user is this discord member
is this holder on chain right and we make it easy to see who's contributing where and to incentivize
the right kind of contributions through this unified data so you're able to really understand who
is in your community and what they're doing
that's right it's like one big database with all the data of all your members across all these
different touch points you can really easily filter and segment and kind of see who's who's doing what
and reward them um on different platforms for the different things they're doing to help engage and
grow your community another cool thing i thought was you can see kind of you can optimize your growth
across different social channels right and kind of see what's working what's not that could be twitter
discord etc so tell us how that's working where people can use this to optimize their social growth
yeah i mean once we have all this data we can create these dashboards and we show you these dashboards
for each of these community touch points so let's show you like which content is actually resonating
with your community that you should kind of lean into more or how engagement in one platform is
translating you know into something on another platform like how is your engagement on twitter
or on discord actually translating into nft sales and you know i think we all know that going community
first in web 3 is so critical you have to really pay attention to what does your community actually want
like what is resonating with them and be responsive to those needs absolutely um and another big thing i feel
like with web 3 is onboarding you know it's really important to make sure you're providing the right
information but also making sure you have the right members and you also help with that with chasm
yes so we have these allow list forms that are totally white labeled um you can brand them they're
totally customizable and you can embed these into your own product or into your own landing page
and if you use these forms they're fully integrated into our database so you'll be able to see live
results as soon as someone fills out this result these forms you'll be able to see that in all of
our databases and in all the dashboards that we've built for you so cool uh we actually tried this
and our on charmverse and chasm forms are embeddable on there everyone so definitely check it out uh yeah we
love we love having those and we've been messing around with them so very cool to just be able to embed a
form right into our space and see you know see what's going on with our socials and and members
and all that good stuff so that's super cool um yeah i thought that was really cool to see that
working i wasn't sure if we were going to uh announce that today but i'm excited definitely yeah
we've been messing around with it we've been we've set up our chasm profiles and have definitely been
checking out and it's been working great so um definitely wanted to give a shout out that
you know this isn't that we're using it and we're loving it so um yes it's fantastic um another thing
is let's see what else was i going to mention um oh automation and integrations so kind of like
triggering workflows for messaging and notifications and all that stuff you want to know about you offer
that as well yeah that's right so one of our newer features is that we have webhooks and we have
zapier integration so for any of these events that we're tracking you can use that to trigger
automated workflows so like a good example is if you have a member um whose wallet you know and you
know their email that's linked to that wallet if we see a new nft purchase you can use that to trigger
like a thank you email or reward or really any automation through those tools that we're used to
being able to build upon in web too that's cool um yeah there's so much capability to this tool
i love it um and tell me about the attribution and acquisition features that you offer
yeah so this is also one of our newer features and it's been getting a lot of traction recently
but we have these sdks for attribution tracking and those sdks are baked into our embeddable
whitelisting forms so if you use one of our forms and you embed that on your own landing page or in
your own product or if you send them to one that we're hosting for you we'll actually capture which
members came in from which campaigns and help you mark conversion events that are like far downstream
so on-chain events and tie those back to the campaigns that led to those conversions
so for example you can see which influencer partnerships are leading not just to people
connecting their wallets but that actually lead to holders that hold for at least three months
or which discord collabs are bringing in the gamers or the whales or the people who end up
staking your token instead of just doing the bare minimum to get something free
so many capabilities i feel like i need like a whole day to really sit down and geek out on chasm
right now because i just feel like there's so much information in this tool that um that's
beneficial no matter what business you're in you know as long yeah that's amazing um so i don't want
to forget to mention the nft article that you wrote why nfts will upgrade everything because you've
mentioned nfts a number of times and nfts are changing pretty quickly right now you know they used to
just be this you know people would just think of them as this digital artwork or whatever and what's
what's the purpose of them right a lot of people new to web 3 but i feel like they're changing a lot
and your article why nfts will upgrade everything was really interesting um because you're talking about
how they can and are going to change our lives so let's talk about that a little bit because it's very
cool um the functionality of of what that could mean for us
yeah i mean i think if you like pay attention to the media narrative around nfts they really focus
on like overpriced artwork right or these these things that i would kind of consider as like a proof
of concept for what nfts can be and for me it always goes back to like going back to first principles
like everything we care about is non-fungible right our relationships our experiences the our homes
our cars our items all those things are non-fungible and we already know that digital representations of
these things are useful and common right so every company you interact with has a record of everything
you've purchased from them or if you're using any big web 2 platform like they're creating representations
of your tastes and what music you like and who you have relationships with and they're using this
to drive more revenue from you right and to deliver a better experience and that's great
but only they can do that and they can only do it if they think it's going to drive more revenue out
of you as the customer so it just seems like like it follows pretty naturally that if you decentralize
these representations you give me as the end user control over my own user data about all these things
that are so important to me and you unlock all these powerful use cases where now anyone can build
services on top of that data to make that data useful for me yeah and some of the use cases you
mentioned well like all of the use cases you you mentioned just really stood out to me um so i just
want to talk about some of them because it might be things that people are not thinking about um
when they think of nfts and how they could be used so one is like an interior design proposal
so they look at a blueprint blueprint of your oh my goodness blueprint of your home your taste your
budget whatever and then could find furniture that fits the room or design custom art based on
your taste like that's wild
totally right so like if you if you get a house built like someone has a blueprint of your home right
that data exists somewhere some some company has that right but you typically don't do anything
with that after you move into your home but it totally makes sense that if i had like an nft
of my home that knew all the dimensions of every room and knew like where i was based and you know what
outlets i'm close to i should be able to plug into like you know like a furniture shopping experience
like wayfair and just tell me immediately like which items fit in which corners and maybe i have
another nft from you know my experiences shopping on amazon that that represents my tastes and that
can be used also to filter to which furniture items and which artwork not only fit but actually line up
with you know what kind of items i'd like and there's just so much you can do with this once i as the user
actually own that data and i can give access to whatever services i want i need that like now as a person
that just bought a couch that's too big for my living room i'm like where where were you you know
four months ago when i i needed to do this um another really cool thing you know we were talking about
um the the reading assistant that you had made you know we're talking about educational content being
tailored to a person whether it's their knowledge as is or how they learn um again very cool that you
could use an nft in that fashion yeah totally i mean so much of what we do in education now is around
credentials right and they're kind of owned by these big old school universities or you know just the
fact that you worked at some company represents that you have experience in some field um but if you
really had a good representation of what i've actually learned and learning experiences that i've gone
through and which ones have worked for me and what kind of value have actually delivered to my
employers or to the dows i've worked for right how many services could you build on top of that to
really tailor customized learning experiences for me or to show me like which um job opportunities
perfectly fit the experience that i have and might you know lead to me moving up in the world in a way
that i want to um and so i think there's a huge unlock opportunity there in the education space for sure
yeah yeah it's wild it's just um just ways that i never even thought about it until i read that
article and it was just great to point them out and then a couple others were just you know personalized
recipes based on your tastes or your health or goals you're striving for it could be wardrobe you know
based on your size and style or um personal assistance you know ai assistance to help you with your
schedule and stuff like that like just every portion of your life could be affected by how nfts are shaping
up right now
yeah absolutely i mean every web2 company collects this data and and uses it to do a better job of
serving their customers right it's it's just a universal thing so i just don't think it's such a big
leap to think okay now we give that to us and we open up so many more use cases with so much more
data if if i hold all that data and i can plug it in wherever i want i think that's really yeah i'm
really glad you wrote this article because i do think that people are a lot of people especially
people just hearing about web3 or just hearing about nfts or they don't quite get the concept and
they're like wait why why would i buy this this yeah they don't get it you know and then you present
all of these possibilities and and how it's shaping up and i think it's gonna it's gonna make it far
more mainstream and people are gonna get super excited about it awesome i hope so so what's next
do you have some features you're adding for chasm what what's happening over there let us know some
inside details if you're able to share yeah for sure so we've been in a beta since august and now
we're getting ready to launch our paid plans so we're really excited to come out of beta and release
access to like premium features and make some of our more premium features that we've been working
with clients in like a white glove capacity to make those more widely available um although we always
will have a free plan available and we always want to make sure that you know the brand new the
smallest nft communities can still come on and get use out of out of what we're doing um and then
we're really focused on delivering like a high class developer first experience so we think like
the real power of this data is if we can integrate with everything and if we can make it really easy to
use this through our sdks and our apis to have like in-product personalization and messaging
and tons of integration so we want to plug into all sorts of blockchains more data sources
and also add access to all the tools that we used in web 2 so those can be used to help the growth in
web 3 and then finally we want open source binding so we want to make it possible for anyone who has
you know their own web 3 platform or a new blockchain or even you know a messaging tool or
something to be able to integrate with us both as a data source for for us as data that goes into our
product and on the output side as some action that we can trigger based on the events that we're
tracking um so that anyone can integrate with chasm and that we can really enable this ecosystem of tools
and capabilities for communities trying to grow a lot on the horizon i like it um do you do you and
your team attend any of the web 3 conferences and you know talk about your product and and that kind of
thing yeah absolutely um it's kind of been a learning arc for this year we earlier in the year
we went to nftnyc and i feel like we didn't really know what we were doing we were just kind of wandering
around and meeting different people and it was a great experience we learned a ton but i don't think
we we knew yet how to focus ourselves at these conferences and more recently i was down at art basel
um and it was just one of the most productive weeks i've had where you know we really understood
like who we should be talking to and you know how we can make the most of that time and actually use
it to build relationships with um the real builders in the space so yes we're we're making an effort and
we're trying to get to as many conferences as we can cool yeah i uh i feel exactly the same way i also
went to nftnyc and it was my first web 3 conference and again was just kind of didn't know how it all
worked and you know who i should be seeking out and just all that stuff but it was a fantastic learning
fantastic learning experience i met so many great people um but then i went to uh devcon in bogota and
like that second conference was so much better and i just felt like i finally had my feet under me and
was and was ready to go so any chance you're going to eat denver
i am i just uh i just picked up a buffet corn nice well we should meet up when we're out there
that would be awesome yeah we're gonna have some of the charm verse team out there so we should
definitely try to meet up along the way and be in touch so for any that would be great i'll have my
co-founder out there as well we can all get together yeah we should definitely do that so for anyone
that joined i kind of want you to give like the overall of what chasm is before i let you go back
to work for the rest of the day but just for any late comers to the space just to give them an
overview what what would you say if you had to give like a quick overview of chasm
chasm is the data-driven crm for web3 we empower web3 communities with unified data
end-to-end attribution and integrated tooling we plug into every community touchpoint socials
blockchains and first-party data to help communities optimize growth engage members
and automate workflows and you can check us out at chasm.xyz he stole my thunder i was going to tell
them that oh sorry um you can also follow them on twitter actually please go follow them on twitter
it's chasm app uh you can click on the chasm pfp also give ben a follow they're doing really cool
stuff a lot more cool stuff on the way um and if you're using charmverse you can embed those forms
right into your charmverse space which is also really cool and um ben i'm i might be reaching out for
a tutorial or you can put me in touch with some of your team because i feel like maybe i'm not
unlocking the pure power that chasm offers and is dealing with our social media and membership and
stuff like that i would love to just be using that tool to the best of its ability so really excited
what you guys are creating over there absolutely we'd love to uh give you a tutorial and thank you
so much oh my goodness thanks so much and natalie i didn't even get to chat with you i'm sorry
oh don't worry about it at all just listening all right well nice to meet you maybe i'll meet you
in east denver if not maybe another time but ben let's definitely be in touch and uh and try to get
together at and uh meet up when we're there but thanks for taking the time to chat with me
really happy to share chasm with our listeners
thank you and thanks everyone for listening go check them out thanks thanks natalie thanks ben
and have a great rest of your day and happy holiday season happy new year all right take care everyone bye
