♪ I want to be with you, I want to be with you ♪ ♪ I want to be with you, I want to be with you ♪ ♪ I want to be with you, I want to be with you ♪ ♪ I want to be with you, I want to be with you ♪ ♪ I want to be with you, I want to be with you ♪ ♪ I want to be with you, I want to be with you ♪
♪ I'm gonna give you the thingy with the one in each letter saying ♪ ♪ All of them, yeah ♪ (upbeat music)
♪ You wanna be free ♪ ♪ We will be safe to hold now ♪ ♪ We will probably be better ♪ ♪ Find any way somehow ♪ ♪ If you wanna stay forever ♪
♪ Oh, something weird ♪ ♪ Oh, something stupid ♪ ♪ When you're going to stay ♪ ♪ I'm not going to escape ♪ ♪ What if I give you the thing ♪ ♪ You're the one who needs that I say ♪ ♪ I'll hold you tight ♪
♪ When I can give you everything you ever wanted is that I say, oh, oh, day ♪
Hello everyone, Happy Thursday. It's Thursday. We're almost through the week. Thanks for joining us today. I'm Zandra, the community manager for Charmverse and your host for the Twitter space. If you're not familiar with Charmverse, you should definitely check it out. We are a
Web 3 community platform to help you manage members, coordinate tasks, facilitate decisions, and really just hold each other accountable. Members can sign in with crypto wallets and gain access via community tokens and NFTs, and it brings together onboarding payment management, proposals, project trackers, and data repositories.
all in one place. So again, please check it out after the space. But for now, I would love to introduce you to Chris founder of Topple. Hey Chris, how are you? Good to be here with you, Zandra. I'm doing great. Where are we going from? Coming from Austin, Texas. Is it warm there?
Um, it is warm. We had some not great weather last week, but uh, the sun's peeking out today. So no complaints. Yeah, starting to warm up. I'm actually in Maine. It's starting to warm up. It's a little rainy, but it's starting to feel like spring. And I'm pretty excited about it. So feeling good about it. So
We're really excited to introduce topple to our listeners if they're not familiar. So listeners topple is the world's first blockchain designed to be an impact monetization engine. And of course we're going to dig into that. So Chris, break that down for us. What does that mean?
Yeah, absolutely. So really looking at that idea of impact monetization. What that means to me and what that means to topple is how can we make positive impact? How can we make environmental sustainability?
economically sustainable and economically profitable. When I came into the international development, sustainable development space about half a dozen years ago, this was really one of the first concepts that I was introduced to that everyone in that
space is just so engaged in and so interested in right now. How can we take all these initiatives to create more inclusive development or better wages and supply chains or regenerative finance like how can we make those things profitable and how can we make those things economically
attractive. And that is what we are trying to do. That's what we're trying to power at topple. Making purpose profitable is another way that we sometimes say it. I love that. I think sustainability is such a big topic. We need more of it in Web 3. So very much appreciate what you're doing. And definitely
I decided to continue talking about this with you today. So when we talk impact, I think if you're in Web 3, you hear about impact DAO's, impact communities. Really what we're talking about is people trying to do good for the world essentially to break it down in pretty simple terms, right?
Yeah, absolutely. Come see me now many flavors many types of organizations, but yeah, good for the world building good. That's fantastic. We're on the same page already. So who doesn't want that right? Who doesn't want more positive impact for the world?
that obviously we're dealing with climate change and just less equitable situations. So the more positive impact we can do in this new-ish industry, the better.
What would you say is the biggest problem in blockchain technology today as most of us know it if we're not a top of a side, right? In blockchain technology as we know it, what are some of the biggest problems we're seeing?
So I think a lot of the problems that we're seeing are all kind of resulting in the same bigger problem, which is we've gotten very, very good at building things for ourselves. Right? I think we've gotten really good at building crypto projects, building tools, you know, applications, whatever we want.
to call them for the people that are already evangelized. I think we're really good at building, to put it maybe a little bit negatively, we're kind of really good at building in our echo chamber. I don't think we are always the best at focusing our decisions
focusing the choices that we make on how can we bring in people to web 3 and how can we just use the power of the technology to deliver some value, some purpose, some benefit that like isn't just kind of like crypto trading or crypto
price speculation like evangelizing. I think we've really gotten good again like building for ourselves probably need to do a bit more introspection a bit more focus on how to just like deliver the technology to people that have problems and like just need the solution but don't necessarily need to fall in love with all things crypto.
I think that is very well said. I think the people that are already here are excited about Web 3 and invested in Web 3. And I think you're right. I think a lot of people are focused on building for those people. What are those people need? But how do we get more people into Web 2? How do we onboard these people?
And I don't know a simplified way not everyone wants to have to sign up for that wallet and jump through those hoops right we want to try to make it easy for people and keep those newcomers in mind and Sustainability should definitely be focused on as well because I think web 3 and specifically blockchain technology is kind of in
Wait, this is a little overstating, I don't know, but considered almost like an enemy of sustainability from what we heard in first years, right? It's been known as an industry that's responsible for an excess of carbon dioxide and like creating or emitting, you know,
more carbon dioxide than something like the largest coal plants, you know? So like, that's really scary. And I think that makes people maybe anti-web-3, web-3 skeptics, however you want to say it. So that's also why I'm really excited to bring you and topple into the discussion today because it doesn't have to be that way.
Yes, no, you're absolutely right. I mean, we've got a bit of, you know, we've got perception problems and that, you know, for whatever reason, you know, those negative headlines, they catch, you know, whether they're negative headlines about, you know, money being stolen out of a
crypto bridge or whatever that electricity or that CO2 emissions tracker is, whatever it is, bitcoins not like the size of Germany or some country there about in terms of its emissions. Those headlines catch and I think in a lot of ways groups like ours
a lot of other ReFi projects as well. We really are trying to put out a more positive narrative and really a narrative that is just around the benefits of the technology for problems that people do recognize. When we're having these ReFi conversations or when we all
are onboarding new carbon projects. For example, we work with a lot of groups that are building new marketplaces or exchanges for carbon credits or groups that are interested in issuing carbon credits for the things that they're already doing. Our pitch isn't around crypto trading, it's not around crypto
It's around just the benefits of the technology and so many people miss that right because it's not as it's on a splashy of a headline which can really just dive in with people and explain and unpack for them. So like you have this problem, maybe it's a problem around transparency or maybe it's this problem around like inter
your different data systems or this problem of just like the settlements and the speed at which you can execute trades and all the value props that we're talking about, all the benefits that we're pitching are just those technology benefits. You have a problem, you have a problem that's standing in
the way of your impact initiative. Maybe this is the technology that that can help solve that. I think that's a pretty flashy headline and would get my attention. I think that's great. So tell us, okay, so how is topple more energy efficient? How are you changing things?
Yeah, so I mean energy efficiency. I think this is like one of the big areas that that we as an entire crypto space have like kind of undersold ourselves because it's really in a lot of ways like every new blockchain that every but almost every new blockchain that's come out in the past five years, you know, we don't really
We don't choose proof of work anymore. If someone's building a new Web3 project, the default system has hooked over to proof of state, right? So we're not running mining, we're not running those big data centers anymore. Everyone is able to do that, that exact level of security, sometimes maybe a bit less, sometimes.
maybe even a bit more security, we're all able to do that economically now. And I think it's kind of amazing that we've started making that flip five years ago as crypto just moving from proof of work to proof of stake. And we're still fighting this narrative. And I mean, we're working on that, other projects out grand.
represent where the engineering is today. And I think Toppo is definitely active in that space, but by no means are we the only ones. I'd say for us, the bigger focus has been dealing with kind of a secondary problem that I expect the space will probably
probably get some heat on as you know, as we come into the coming months and years is around like the economic central organization and just like the level of concentration of wealth that exists in a lot of these projects. So building a blockchain that is energy efficient, pretty easy. Building a
watching that is energy efficient but also more inclusive or has like a better distribution of its ownership that's the tripier part. You know I'm glad you brought that up because I feel like and I could be wrong but I feel like when the merge happened oftentimes or at
at that point, we were talking about like, oh, we're becoming more energy efficient, but you're saying this has been being worked on for years now. But you're right, this isn't what's in the headlines. It really is kind of the more negative side of things. So I'm glad that you're clarifying that, like, that this has been a problem. Blockchain's been working on for a while.
Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I remember being around in the Ethereum community before main net even launched and there were already plans and already discussions, prior to the first version of the network watching, as to what the proof of state transition was going to look like.
actually even built in for for anyone who's unfamiliar with it. There was this idea of an ice age in Ethereum and it was going to be the mechanism by which we kind of forced the network to go from proof of work over into proof of stake. And you know, just because everything in engineering always
takes a bit longer than his plan, that had to be like the way to a couple of times. So that transition into proof of state was, you know, literally plan for and literally acknowledged in, you know, in the earliest conversations around the theorem. I'm, yeah, like I said, I'm glad that you're, um, that you're mentioning that because I guess I wasn't totally
aware of that and I'm sure some of our listeners were definitely not aware of that. So that's great to hear. So I wanted to have into the other part you were talking about which was like the inclusivity. But first, so topple is a layer zero block chain. So oftentimes you hear L1, L2, what is L0 or layer zero mean?
So layer zero for us at least and you know crypto is a new space moves very quickly. We don't always agree on our terms, but for us being an L zero means that we are we have a consensus protocol. We have like a settlement layer that everything ultimately boils down.
But we can support multiple different ledgers or multiple different, you know, even smart contract virtual machines all running inside the same ecosystem. So, you know, other projects that at least by our definition, we
would consider other L0s. So avalanche is in a lot of ways we think of L0 because it has the idea of subnets. You can kind of create your own little blockchain attached to the main avalanche chain or polkadot. Can we thought of at least on our definition of an L0
because you have those parachains and those relay chains. And even the Cosmos ecosystem with the messaging protocol that they have to allow their different walkchains to talk to each other, we think that represents an L0 as well. Really, we're just trying to acknowledge the fact that
You need, you kind of need a bit of heft or you need kind of like a single unified token ecosystem to provide security for blockchain, but that doesn't mean every, you know, everyone needs to be writing their smart contracts in the same exact language or something like that and allows for.
a bit of diversity inside your blockchain ecosystem. Cool. All right. Thanks for breaking that down. So, Topple is a layer zero blockchain that's built to drive sustainable and inclusive growth. So, we're talking about inclusivity. How are you doing this? What does that look like?
So I see what that looks like for us is it takes form in the projects and it kind of in the groups that we work with and support, but then also takes a form in the design of the protocol itself. So, you know, to give you an example on, unlike the application side or the use case side,
a lot of couples early work, we focused on supply chains actually. We found supply chains to be both, you know, really a pretty powerful use case for blockchain technology in particular, but also really an ideal like bootstrapping mechanism back to that idea of how to get adoption
how to branch out of the Web 3 echo chamber and get to new areas. There's one of the things that we discovered with supply chains is you can bring on supply chains and you can sell the idea of Web 3 and blockchain to one supply chain at a time. So many crypto and so many Web 3 use cases are fundamentally
market place based and whenever we're dealing with a marketplace, you've got like that double-sided problem of you can't detract buyers until you have sellers and you can't detract sellers until you have buyers. And you know, bootstrapping or setting all that up is a pretty big go-to-market or pretty just big start-up challenge, so to speak.
And supply chain devoid that because you can sell the idea and you can provide the value of greater transparency or of like the immutability of data that can be provided for for this supply chain information. You can provide that and you can roll that out one supply chain at a time. So that was really one of the areas that that double technology first
started being used and first started getting traction. For us inclusion and inclusivity in those use cases was really all about how can we get down to the first mile. The first mile in supply chains meaning to the actual mind sites in the end of
if we're talking about something like diamond or gold or if down to like the farming cooperatives and individual farmers if we're dealing with Kikow or tea or coffee like how can we actually get the technology and how can we actually get the data capture that everyone's interested in down to that
to that first mile level. And so for us, that was a lot about, can we integrate the technology with SMS? So we don't have people needing to like manage crypto wallets and crypto keys, but can they actually just submit data and review data via SMS instead? Or for us, it was about saying, how can we
design a system that has kind of very, very simplified, very accessible multi-party sign-off. So for example, some of the work that we did was around helping buyers, helping retailers verify that fair wages and living wages were being paid.
in the case of coffee supply chains, we did a lot of work there. And there was this problem that obviously the big companies in those supply chains would like claim, right? They would just say they were paying fair wages and living wages even if it wasn't true because they were the ones being asked. So we had a start devising system so
that individual farmers could actually certify that information or also share that information. First, that idea of inclusion was really about getting down to the first mile. When it comes to the design of topple itself and how can we make that more inclusive, we've actually tapped into a lot of the ideas and a lot of the research
that was spearheaded over the years by the group radical exchange. So if anyone is familiar with the idea of quadratic voting or quadratic funding, these are new ideas and what? Political theory or new ideas and economics as to how we can better finance
public goods and how we can kind of wait decision making or wait funding decisions towards smaller individual contributors and away from bigger whales or things like that. And we've taken a lot of those radical exchange ideas into how the troubles of economics works.
and how cobble government works? - So cool. You mentioned the coffee thing and I really, I wanna give people some more concrete examples of what they can do or how it works, right? So some examples that I saw. So coffee you mentioned, making sure free wages are there. Another interesting one was conflict free diamonds.
Yeah, so we've done conflict three diamonds conflict three gold to this you know very similar principles of You're making the data immutable on the blockchain so it can never be tempered with a cleaned up after the fact, but you're also extending You know the data capture you're extending
who you're asking these questions to down to the individual minor level or the individual trader level and you're getting away from just those very large groups who have the incentive to misreport this information. So yeah, comfort three diamonds, comfort three gold, or other areas.
You know, carbon credits are another, I think, pretty tangible example. That is really just an area, like actually completely outside of Web 3 and blockchain that is going through so much innovation and so much disruption right now. There's a real interest and there's a real
drive to improve the way that we measure carbon or the types of carbon instruments and carbon trading structures that we have. And all of that is just being led by climate scientists and statisticians. But these new
methodologies, these new carbon players, then they need an infrastructure, or they're not necessarily interested in building out their own registries or building out their own exchanges. And so some of them have started partnering either with Topple or with other players in the space to say, can we just do our trading
on a blockchain or can we just use blockchain technology as registries or kind of as the database where we store these new carbon credits so we don't also have to be here on technology companies. And this kind of leads to the monetizing impact when we talk about carbon, right?
So yeah, that is yeah golden example of it. So your carbon can be like tracked tokenized and transacted.
Yes, exactly that. But this idea of carbon credits and turning some form of impact into this quantifiable tokenizable monetizable unit, we think, can and should be applicable out
side of the carbon space. So we've actually started working with about 10 different NGOs and social enterprises around tokenizing non-carbon impact. So obviously impact comes in many, many forms. We have, you know,
We have gender equity related projects or we have biodiversity projects which aren't necessarily about capturing more carbon but protecting biodiversity in certain key ecosystems around the world. And we're asking the question together with these partners of
of how can we turn their impact into tokens and how can we help them monetize that those other forms of impact beyond just carbon. I love this. I'm already learning so much. I love this. I want to go backwards for one second because
is something, one of the projects, impact projects that you had worked with. And I feel like this affected everyone. So I just want to give you a shout out for this was COVID-19 test kits was another thing that you partnered with as far as
Yeah, just kind of helping that transparency, right? So where was that? Like, how did that fall in? Was it the results of these? What was it?
Now, so where that fell in is that fell in actually? It's kind of weird. It was a locally based partnership, which was kind of a weird thing to be doing when everything was remote, everything was virtual, but we partnered with another Austin based technology provider who
who does a lot of work in the healthcare space and what they were being tasked with by some of their partners is there was a big spoilage problem in the supply chain as everyone was trying to get COVID-19 test kits shipped around the world because what I didn't know at the time and I didn't really learn and understand
until we were engaged in this project is the test kits, or at least a lot of the early forms of them, were very temperature sensitive, meaning that if it got too hot or if it got too cold anywhere along the supply chain, these test kits, when they would arrive on site, they wouldn't be accurate anymore.
would give false readings. So it was very important that we were able to track and properly attribute if and when temperatures got too hot or too cold and we needed somewhere neutral, we needed somewhere credible
we needed somewhere immutable and tamperproof that this data could be stored so that all the different supply chain partners couldn't really agree and figure out who was at fault. And even so insurance payouts could be managed properly because all these supply chains are insured, but you can
actually collect on those insurance claims if you can make the report and if you can argue what went wrong and whose responsibility it was at the time. So we learned a ton about cold chains, health care supply chains during that process, but it was, yeah, I think a very tangible way
way that trouble does a lot of impact things, but usually a lot of us aren't directly affected by them. But I think this is a good example of that. Yeah, do you think the knowledge you gained from that specific experience will help you maybe get more involved in like, I don't know, say the D size space?
I think so. And I think in a lot of ways, this is kind of been what Topel is always focused on. We kind of made a unique decision relatively early on in our history to start working with projects as quickly as possible. So for, you know, for anyone who may not know, Topel,
actually hasn't even gone through its own TGE yet. We haven't listed our token. We haven't flipped on, you know, staking for the community. We haven't flipped on community governance yet. Those things will all be coming later this year. So really in a lot of ways we
are pre-wanch, but we've always prioritized getting those use cases out there, getting those early experiments being done. Because there's only so many things we can possibly imagine, or there's only so many questions that you can answer just standing up the whiteboard. Yeah.
We've learned a lot, we've learned a lot through the COVID project and kind of know how to, I think, now better apply the technology to maybe pharmaceutical or maybe scientific data use cases going forward. We've learned a lot from our early carbon work. And so we now know how better to deal with it.
with carbon space and even the energy space. We've learned a lot just because there's a very strong nexus that exists between energy and energy transition and decarbonization. So, you know, I'd say in a lot of ways this is another thing that we looked into the Web3 space and the public.
lacking that we're really, really good back to that earlier point of building in echo chambers. As a space we're also really good about just like going off into our offices or getting heads down our desks and building something. Sometimes we kind of forget to actually kind of validate that out in the market.
I think that's a good point. You know, go see what's actually happening out there and things are always changing so quickly, which is why I was thinking about the D-Size space. I actually just hosted a Twitter space yesterday with a D-Size panel and pretty fascinating what's happening in that world.
So it would just make sense for Topple to also start venturing that way. How long has Topple been around? So Topple, we got to start very, very, I'd say slowly and cautiously in 2017, 2018, but really we only got
going, I'd say closer to 2019, 2020 is so, you know, let's say about five years old by most meaningful metrics. It's been around for a while. Yeah, seeing a lot of things, learned a lot of things along the way. A lot has happened in that time. Oh, yes it has.
So, I guess if you were telling, you know, pitching topple, why topple? What makes this blockchain so special? I mean, obviously you're designed for impact, but what are some of the other talking points you would go directly to as far as topple?
So the things that we really go to when talking about topple is we really do spend a lot of time on this idea of being purpose built of being, you know, kind of focused around this thesis of impact because, you know, there is no
technology that is fully general purpose, right? You're always making trade-offs, you're always choosing this over that or that over this and nothing's ever perfect. And what we've really found in the ReFi space or what we've really found with, you know, out of the global south and emerging markets,
emerging market partners we work with is there's just this incredible resonance and incredible excitement when these groups that are usually so neglected by technologists and general and technology companies actually find something that is built for them, prioritizes them, etc. So
So, you know, that really is a big area for us. But beyond that, we have, you know, we've put a lot of effort into the, like the usable security of how topple handles smart contracts of how topple handles data. So this was, you know, an area
of that that took a lot of research on our part and I think we really in a lot of ways led to a pretty innovative solution. Topple, the way our smart contracts work is we actually run smart contracts only as a layer two or all top of smart contracts are basically
Now, what does that mean? What that means for us is our smart contracts can be run locally. So in any of the enterprise things that we're doing or anytime anyone really worries about how sensitive their data is, smart contracts can run locally or smart contracts
can simply be run at a much lower cost because there, maybe all know, or maybe are a bit familiar with L2s, L2 costs are typically a lot lower than L1 costs. So smart contracts can be more secure because their local or smart contracts can be cheaper to run because they're
an L2. We think that's a fairly interesting differentiator and then there's been a lot of research done on our tokenomics, I would say, as well in that topple has a one of the first ever, at least to our knowledge, semi-stable coins that will be in existence.
So, top of put a lot of work into really reimagining how payments are handled in our network and kind of shying away from or turning away from the idea of like peg stablecoins that need to maintain perfect one-to-one ratios with another currency just towards this idea of
Like asking the question, well, what if a blockchain was kind of like a country and countries have currency and those currencies need to be somewhat stable, but they still can move around. Currencies aren't usually pegged to each other and kind of replicating that thinking in the in the payment vehicle for a top of a swatching, which we also think is quite unique.
Yeah, thanks. I definitely think that's kind of what I was getting at. You nailed it. As far as the data and you know, verifications of the relevant data and stuff like that. So thank you. So what inspired you to create topple? And when did you kind of first decide
to get into this world. I guess also what were you doing before this? Three questions throwing those all at you. All right, I will figure out a way to sort through that. So I've been in Web 3 and in one form or another, I kind of fell down that rabbit hole actually all the way back in 2011, 2012.
So I was back in college still at the time and I had some friends that were really into Bitcoin and everything like that and they kind of hooked me in to be honest. So David in the space casually as I was finishing up university and then as I was coming out of university I started my first startup in the web through
space. Much more on the on the pure FinTech side. We were doing, we built out a platform and a mobile application to handle payments paired with a customer loyalty, customer engagement platform that we were marketing to local businesses, the food trucks, coffee shops,
And I did that for about two or three years and learned a couple really important lessons before selling off selling off the intellectual property selling off of everything that we did for that. The first lesson that that I learned was there are a lot of use cases of
blockchain or there are a lot of things that you can do that are they're kind of neat they're cool they're interesting but they're not super valuable so kind of learning the difference between I think shiny and problem solving or shiny and valuable to turn in that process the other thing I learned was just how challenging it can be
to build out on top of a technology that is maybe not built with your exact use case in mind or is still going through a lot of its changes to the application and the platform that we built back then was built on a very, very early version of Ethereum and I definitely have the battle scars to
just how hard it was to work with that technology in the early days and just how much this idea of real world or rather physical world retail payments was not a use case that the Ethereum had prioritized. So coming out of that, I had made a lot of connections
incidentally enough into different development banks and different UN agencies that were starting to experiment with and starting to explore the potential of crypto and of watching technology to sustainable finance or to multilateral
finance where loans or different development programs would be offered to global south countries and global south economies. And I was privileged enough to be a part of a lot of those early working groups that were being done at the UN, at the World Bank, etc. And I really just got an appetite for how much could
potential there was at the intersection of a blockchain and impact and how I really did just feel it was a space that was that was under addressed in a lot of ways. It just wasn't a focus of of any crypto or any web three discussions that I was having, you know, on Twitter or Reddit, things like that. So, so we went out and we built a blockchain for that purpose.
And you're crushing it. Yeah, I mean, you're learning as you go as we all are and kind of figuring it out along the way and and I love it. So between ReFi building sustainable blockchain
and just creating new systems that are more accessible and inclusive. What are you most excited about for the future of Web 3? How sustainability fits into it? Just in general, what are you kind of geeking out on and most excited about?
I think what I'm most excited about is I'm waiting for the renaissance of Dao's and governance. And so in a lot of ways in crypto, foreign web3, what goes around comes
around. And before any big wave that we've ever had, whether it's NFTs or DeFi or proofy state, there's always like this false start or this early example that kind of catches fire, but then everyone forgets about it. And it goes dormant for a couple
years until everyone rediscoveres it again. NFTs were a big thing for most people only in the past two years, but I remember thinking back to whatever it was 2016-2017 when crypto kitties first came out or DeFi summer was in
2022 or sorry 2020 but maker and kind of that first ever DeFi stablecoin project goes back to the earliest days of Ethereum. And so while I think we've seen some experimentation in some early use cases for for DAOs and for community voting, I don't think we
have seen nearly what we are going to see and nearly the kind of the Canberra explosion of experimentation there that I'm hoping and expecting we'll see probably in the next 18 months to two years. I think blockchains are just such an ideal and such an exciting place.
around for us to experiment with new models of human and new models of economic coordination and cooperation. And that's what I'm super excited about is innovations and governments, innovations in community decision making that again 18, 24 months really hoping to see a lot there.
Yeah, I look forward to kind of keeping an eye on all of this. Listeners, if anyone has any questions, please raise your hand and we can bring you up on stage to ask Chris any questions you have about these topics. And
Let's see. So, oh, as a founder, speaking to future founders that are listening, what is a must-do in your opinion? Something you feel you did that you did right and you would suggest other people do.
So at least for me, and I know founders for whom this doesn't look like something, let's take this all with the grain of salt. But for me doing something in which I find purpose is absolutely critical. And there are so many ways being a founder is
It's fun. It's exciting. It's incredibly flexible sometimes, but there are also a lot of challenges. There is a lot of uncertainty and self-doubt that can go into that. And for me, what's always gotten me through those most challenging times of being a founder and of the
I look at this and I can recognize and I can remind myself that there is a reason that I'm doing this. There's a purpose that I'm doing this, that the world hopefully will be a better place if we succeed. And that's really been something that's gotten me through the
challenges or blow ups or whatever number of crypto winter we're on right now. So yeah, being able to find that purpose and have that purpose is important. And I think the other thing is just learning to not wait for things
things to get more calm in auto ways, startups and entrepreneurial life, especially in a space like Web 3 is the literal embodiment of chaos. And I found kind of my own mental health and my own just outlook really improved
I just once I embraced that I spent a lot of my early time as a founder like waiting to raise our seed stage or waiting to then get to series A or waiting for whatever that milestone was going to be that was going to change things and make everything all better and all calm down.
approach is just embrace it, accept it, and learn to enjoy it. And I'm stop fighting the gay house. I like that. I mean, being a founder from founders that I've spoken with, you know, it's not easy. Like you said, there are benefits. It's flexible. You have a passion about what you're doing. So that's fantastic.
But it's a lot and you are navigating a lot of chaos and yeah, just start building and working your way through it and figuring out as you go and stop waiting around. I think that's great advice. How about something that you might not do again if you had a do over?
founders, at least most of the founders I meet, myself included, were very, very ambitious. I think there have definitely been times where I've tried to do too much too fast and you know, we would try to stand up another vertical or stand up another workstream or
immediately start expanding into a second area before we really had our feet under ourselves in the first. As a founder, you feel like everything is super super urgent and if you don't do this in the next 90 days, someone's going to beat you to it. And yeah, sometimes that definitely is the case.
but there are also a lot of things that we kind of rushed or doubled up on doing that. We made the decision to double up on them four years ago and I still actually haven't seen anyone else bring that idea to market. So definitely some things we could have waited on and maybe taken into a bit more one at a time.
All right, great and thanks. Thanks for sharing that with all of us. So as we wrap up, hold on a second. No, OK. As we wrap up, what is next for topple? What's coming down the pipeline that you can share with us?
Yeah, absolutely. So as I alluded to, topple is we're not yet decentralized. We haven't gone through our token generation or token listing, anything like that. Really because I was pretty active in the space during the ICO craze and I just, I saw
I saw projects of like five or six people where you would have to have four of them managing the telegram chat another person running around getting a change list things and you only had like one of your people that was able to actually move the project forward. So I think I gained a healthy respect for the channel.
of turning over to decentralization and token listing, everything like that. But that is finally the stage that topple is that now we've gone through a couple versions of our blockchain. We've locked down and developed, I think, really exciting tokenomics and governance models and we will be.
going through our token generation event and turning ourselves over to Dow based and community based governance by the end of the year. We're starting to really stand up a community for that over in our discord over in a few other channels in advance of that.
Yeah, people are getting interested in how to both build on top of but also to take some stewardship in this impact community, this impact protocol that we're building out. The time for us to open the community doors will be later this year.
Amazing, very exciting. I look forward to following the journey of topple. Listeners, topple is an impact technology economy that enables digital and sustainable transformation across value chains and empowers the monetization of impact verified on the topple blockchain.
Definitely check it out Twitter. It's @topple_protocol and the website is topple.co. Please go check them out. Click on Chris's PFP and give him a follow as well. They're doing super exciting things in the impact world.
the beach at Charmverse. We love of course. So showing all of our support. Chris, you've been a fantastic guest and very informative. I'm really excited about topple and what you're doing over there. Thanks so much for having me. This was a wonderful one. Yeah, absolutely. And I hope one day we get to meet in real life.
And yeah, everyone you change the world topple proves it go check it out amazing blockchain And let's all follow their journey together. So thanks again Chris and yeah, I hope to talk again soon Thanks again, oh one little shout out everyone. I'm gonna be right
a blog post in the coming weeks about this discussion we have and featuring topple because like I said at Chombers we really love what they're doing so keep an eye out for that on our Twitter page and all of our socials will be putting it out there soon but yeah extra support for topple from us and yeah keep crushing out their Chris
Thanks. - Have a great day everyone, and we'll see you next time. Bye.