to the party we're just getting started go ahead you're welcome to bring all your
trauma we are all the same here just trying to get back
welcome to the party we're just getting started go ahead now send my count to
your mama we're just as fucked up as you come on let's go get high
Life is better in the metaverse
Cause I'll walk to the moment we go
Life is better in the metaverse
We're just getting started
Break all your ties with old drama
We're just getting started
So make another to your mama
This world just is fucked about too
Come on let's go get high
We all gonna make it so dead
Those eyes consider my day
But here's your piece of pie
It's all just a matter of time
Life is better in the metaverse
Cause I'll walk to the moment we go
Life is better in the metaverse
Cause I'll walk to the moment we go
Life is better in the metaverse
Say goodbye to the moment we go
Goodbye to the life that we all know
My period I fell in reverse
Forget a thing you've been taught first
Now that you'll be to my happy place
Life is better in the metaverse
Call me to the life I'm better
But that shit lays right together
Goodbye world to the moment we go
Life is better in the metaverse
Goodbye world to the moment we go
Life is better in the metaverse
Goodbye world to the moment we go
Life is better in the metaverse
Hey, hey, hey, here we are again.
Hope all is well, hope all is well.
We've got Lucas on the stage, we've got Dusty coming up very shortly, we're gonna carry
on the carbon credit chat that we've done for a bit spread out, but we've done it for
So it'd be good to sort of tie it up and try and put a neat bow on top of things, but yeah,
Mr. Lucas, you're on stage.
Yeah, it's good to see you too.
And yeah, well, I'll start off by just throwing a massive thanks out to the community as well
for all the support we got yesterday with our Winter Monkey launch, yeah, another really
successful launch and yeah, it's really humbling, it really is to sort of get that support from
so many people and yeah, it does mean the world, it really does.
I think I was looking through some of the stats today and I looked on a space scan and
the total volume in US dollars was $11,742 worth of trades.
That's not all obviously come to myself, but there's obviously been some trades amongst
And believe it or not, the whole of the Tezos chain yesterday in that 24 hours did $11,795.
So yeah, we are $3 short of basically the whole volume of the entire Tezos chain, which
is a massive achievement for the Chia blockchain.
I think it just shows how we're growing slowly but surely.
It's always one of those things when you put some work out there and a lot of people obviously
following us and following the project and what we're working on, but you never do know,
you really don't know, you never know if it's going to hit or you always have those doubts.
But yeah, the support from everybody in the community is just, it really is incredible
and I really do appreciate it and what can I say?
The funds are coming in and pretty much tomorrow you can follow those funds, they'll go straight
over to the NFTR guys who are working on some really cool stuff for us as well.
So that's sort of the way this is working.
We're building up and creating this sort of whole ecosystem to be something pretty cool.
Before we dive into the carbon credit chat, go on Lucas.
Oh sorry, I was just going to say Chia Star is definitely rising.
I don't know if you saw somebody bought 65,000 Chia and won by.
Larry Fink mentioned Chia or I should say more appropriately, the World Bank Carbon,
what do you say, the World Bank Carbon Market Ledger and I was on Wolf Finance, invited
me on a couple of nights ago and I mentioned Chia and those Trader Deejins lit up like
they had just discovered Chia and they were excited to hear me talk about it, so put that
I think yesterday the price has pumped, I claimed it as being because of the monkey
zoo launch, but I suspect there was other things behind the scenes.
I think one of the interesting tweets I've seen this, probably the most interesting tweet
I've seen this week was Gene's tweet about IPO, he tweeted I think something like 11
hours ago that it was IPO season and that meant that the world, what did he say, people's
accounting skills had gone wonkers and so it must be time for IPOs.
Yeah, exactly, exactly that.
I think there was something in there that clicked my interest, the word may and I'm
pretty sure it was obviously meant as in maybe round the corner, but who knows, it could
actually be a month and that's just pure speculation, don't take that as anything else.
Darn it, I can't get my own thing, where's our wink wink emoticon?
I don't know if you saw too, we've got slowest time down listening, but did you see the Morse
I did, I did, yes, and that led on to a conversation about carrier pigeons and it crossed my mind
that surely we can have dolphins that can trade across the ocean, but yeah, no, you
know, that just sort of goes to show the incredible power of offer files.
It's a hell of a long piece of Morse code for an offer file, but hey, you know, all
else fails, that's how we do it.
Yeah, fun fact is I'm old enough that when I joined the military back in 1992, the part
of my training, I was in the Royal Signals, was to learn Morse code, a bit of Morse code
I can't remember hardly any of it now, but you know, the Didard type stuff was ingrained
into me for a while, so it's very rarely used these days, but, you know, this...
Did you learn how to wave those flags around like the...
Well, off the side of the boat.
I've always been enamored by that and the lights that the sailors would do with their
I could go into stories about sort of communications and, you know, the way that it works in a
sort of a military environment and the tactics that people use to do things is just fascinating,
it really is, but that's not what we're here for.
That's not what we're here for, but I just want to, just before we get into the carbon
credit stuff, just run through a couple of bits that took my eye this week.
There's a few bits, obviously, the Hoffman IPO tweet, which I thought was interesting.
Chia obviously pumping a bit yesterday along with, you know, most of the rest of the markets,
but I think we did incredibly well as well.
Just got to bring up the great interview that Gene had with the technology poet on YouTube
If you haven't listened to that, you have to go and listen to that, because that was...
It was really interesting and really great to hear somebody, you know, sort of almost
being green-pilled as they went along, and, you know, Gene's a wonderful talker, isn't
And, you know, he explains things really well, and, you know, all fair play to the host.
I mean, she really knew her stuff and understood it, and that made for a really great conversation.
So hopefully they'll do more of those, because I think that's a great way for anybody who's
generally interested in crypto, not even necessarily Chia, to get a good understanding of, you
know, just how all this works and what are the pitfalls of certain sort of consensus
mechanisms, et cetera, et cetera.
So, you know, certain, obviously, it's slightly biased towards Chia, but, you know, if we're
in this ecosystem, then, you know, we obviously think that this technology is here to stay.
So a couple of other bits I picked up this week.
The Crypto Echo, I don't know if anybody spotted him on the timeline.
He seems like, you know, I think he's Canadian.
He does a lot of great little videos, just sort of off-the-cuff, rough-and-ready videos,
I love the way, you know, there's certainly a place and time for, you know, well-edited videos.
But I like the way he goes in, sort of tries to do something.
If it doesn't work, he sort of figures it out and works around it.
But, yeah, he's sort of just popped out of nowhere, really.
And he's done a couple of sort of little monkey's-o videos, which I sort of, you know, really appreciate.
And I messaged him the other day to sort of say, you know, thanks for sort of looking into it and doing your stuff.
And can I send you some bits?
And he's now, he's like insistent that I can't send him any bits to sort of help him out.
So, you know, he seems genuinely interested in sort of this technology.
And, yeah, the Crypto Echo, I think once we get going, I'll pin a few bits to the top.
So everyone could go and follow these people, because he's definitely worth a, he's definitely worth a follow.
And like I say, the rough and ready videos of him just just sort of going through things is definitely worth a watch.
And then the last thing I want to mention before we go carbon credit is the Circuit Dow,
which is probably right up Lucas Street as well, have just started on Testnet.
And, you know, I know a few people, I know Mondo has been playing around with it as well.
I haven't had the time to play around with it at all.
But, you know, that looks quite an exciting new thing that's going to be appearing.
Lucas, have you looked into the Circuit Dow at all?
Oh, yes, I was in there a Discord and following it for a while, but I've been so busy lately that I've gotten behind.
But their mission, I think that it's, I don't know, I'm very glad that they are embarking on opening up the credits to everyone.
So yeah, to them. Yeah, it's definitely one to watch and to keep an eye on.
Like I said, I know Mondo has been playing around with a few other people.
So, yeah, I'm really looking forward to getting to learn a bit more about that and how that's going to operate.
And yeah, great stuff. But let's let's dive in.
It's just as a side note, I've got the three o'clock kickoff, which is exactly when I start.
This was the the League Cup final over here in football.
I call it football. Liverpool v Chelsea. And as a Liverpool fan, I have got the Liverpool game on on the side on my Skygo.
So I will be doing my best to concentrate as best I can.
But let's let's dive into to the next stage of, you know, carbon credits and where are we going to head today?
What are we going to talk about? Oh, well, good luck to your team today.
Hopefully they do well. And it's always always fun to I think last time we had soccer stuff, it was like the World Cup.
And I think I was definitely egging some of you guys on when it was like France versus England.
And I can't remember who won that game, but I'm pretty sure Cass remembers.
Yeah, it wasn't it wasn't England.
Yeah, let's let's let's dive into it. Let's let's see what we want to talk about.
I think I think if we sort of recap the first couple of spaces, you know, the first the first base we sort of talked about,
generally sort of the history and the overview of carbon credits.
And then the second space we talked about more of the technology side of it and how it's come that they sort of tried these things on Ethereum.
And now they've moved across onto cheer and it's all operational on cheer.
I think we can sort of touch on a bit of that as well today and then maybe just sort of talk about where we think it's going to be going in a year from now
and say five years or 10 years from now, you know, and take it wherever it goes.
So I'll sort of pass over to Lucas and Dusty to to sort of get stuck into it.
Yeah, yeah. So the the carbon market is is like a speculative market that continues growing right as you have.
You've got offsets and the credits, you know, voluntary compliance of two different markets.
You know, over time, things just are are going to trend that way.
You know, it's interesting to see like BlackRock CEO Barry talk about that carbon market.
Recently, you also seen Elon Musk talk about it.
So it has to be some sort of like financial penalty if you don't do these things and people are just going to forever utilize the current technology they've got.
And, you know, if you think of like a big business, this is impacting the bottom line and their shareholder dollars.
So, you know, you need to have some sort of, I guess, governance or some sort of payment, like in the states, they've got methane in 2024 is the first year we're doing methane.
It's part of the Inflation Reduction Act, like a methane tax, you know, again, they're specifically in the states and other other places.
They're giving dollars from like the American or the government side that you can invest and change your business style.
So to get those emissions and to kind of knock things down, like if you look at here in the states, we have Amazon delivery trucks and they're mostly all electric powered.
You know, I think one good argument is the grid that they tie into.
It's not it's not fully renewable, but it's still like three quarters to 60 percent of natural gas.
Natural gas is much better than coal and other types of energy types.
But, you know, it still has a big, big carbon emission side.
You know, and again, you you get into this, I guess, dilemma of electric vehicles and electric system, renewable energies.
But that is battery storage.
You have to have large lithium batteries to to hold that energy.
And you've only got a couple of hour charge on those batteries.
Once you get up to like hundreds of megawatts or gigawatts, it's only good for a couple of hours.
You know, you could like stage gate it and have certain percentage like tie in when certain parts are needed, but you're not going to fully refill those batteries quickly.
Or you have to have a really, really big renewable generation side and a smaller percentage of battery side for that.
So it's going to take a while.
And in the states, it's only started being pushed by 2021.
2022 is kind of where you're kind of seeing things you pushing in.
You know, the what you're going to see is the compliance market be the biggest thing where it's going to be significantly billions and trillions of dollars as these assets are worth more in the future.
And certain types of carbon offsets are going to be worth a lot more like if you've got like like a biofuel type where you're actually capturing the carbon, which.
And then you could use it as like a fuel source.
That's that's going to be the ones that will be worth the most.
But it's also the most capital investment and the hardest to make.
Yeah, I just want to maybe ask Lucas, the Larry Fink one that you said when I didn't I didn't see that one.
But it's interesting, you know, obviously BlackRock has one of the biggest asset managers in the world.
So, you know, I think they kind of were shying away from ESG and wanting more to be like, you know, bottom dollar again, it's a business.
So they want to create wealth and capital.
Well, and I know I when I've touched on it in the first episode, but, you know, the the World Bank is moving the the denomination of the exchange markets or the the exchange rates
sold out by the IMF to carbon.
And this is a this is they're trying to answer a question as to how do you how do you limit the number of dollars that are made in the world?
And a long time ago, I would say in the 70s and even before then it was it was decided that we needed to somehow begin to limit the amount of energy.
Because if if dollars are just going around the world, repricing, resources and labor, then you have a problem.
And so this is that sort of the structure that especially like the world finance is beginning to understand and invest in.
So I don't know how much you want to get into that, but, you know, we have these 30 by 30 initiatives here in the United States, political initiatives.
And these are part of, you know, like a political response also to to limiting the amount of development, the amount of of of resource exploration in in the in the different states.
So which will be part of that system? You want to get into that, Dusty?
Yeah, yeah, we certainly can.
I mean, and again, I think this is for everyone.
This is like a market that's been around for like two decades and year over year, they have more taxation, more value.
I think I think last year was like it's kind of like they break the record every year because you get more involvement.
And last year they did like ninety five billion for the carbon taxes and emissions training system.
Yes, that's what they're called.
So those two combined got to ninety five billion this last year.
And if you look at if you look at the charts of like historical information just year over year, it gets bigger.
Yeah. And I mean, you know, part of part of why we're all here is Chia and Chia is so very important because of its decentralization, decentralized nature.
But, you know, like I see I see a big problem, like, you know, people say, why, Chia, why do you need the decentralization?
And it is because there is going to be massive there will be massive attempts of fraud because whenever you're when you're when when you're trying to control an area from another area, this presents a problem.
And whenever it's something that's that is notionally intangible, like how much carbon are you sequestering?
You know, I think we're going to see I think we're going to start to see more kickbacks as we move through this or or more.
How do I put this? We're going to see.
I don't know, nation states that begin to question like what what who how who they're giving their autonomy to.
I think that Javier Malay and, you know, his buzzsaw and the farmer that, you know, like, think of the farmer's rights that we have going on in France, et cetera, et cetera.
I think that this is this is going to have massive impacts to industries like agriculture and and also impact states like New Mexico and Colorado that in states in the West that have large, large portions of land.
And the notion that that urban areas are going to section off large parts of the world to turn them into preserves is going to be very sticky.
Yeah. And you also need to buy in from, you know, you need you need the corporate side also to get in, not just the government side.
I mean, the biggest market that has grown is the European ETS like that.
You know, all of these started, let's say a dollar to five dollar range.
And, you know, the European ETS is the only one that surpass one hundred dollars per percent of carbon.
Right. So it needs to be a larger buy in.
And there and there is no tax in the states. Right.
Like, I think you look at some of the taxations and Canada is the one that is probably the biggest one that we see some sort of taxation from.
So, you know, these are markets that are going to be coming into the space.
They're just they're just not there yet.
And, you know, it's it feels like a long time, but like two decades is how long this market has been around.
And you're completely right. Like the the like how you don't want to buy an asset.
Like if you're a company, you're buying an asset and you're buying it off of like an Excel sheet, you know, what kind of governance factor is there?
That's how she gets. And that's that's a block chain.
And before they even had Chia, they reference block chain utilization so people could see it retired on the block chain.
You know, no difference then.
You know, proof of stake is obviously not probably the way to go.
And at the same time, there are issues in the past of like rolling the chain back.
And, you know, I think Jean mentioned in his conversation of like, if you roll a chain back and you something is retired on chain,
you know, that that is that is not a good way to go.
So, yeah, no, I definitely agree, you know, the governance is the biggest reason why the World Bank is using Chia.
You know, I work in in aviation and this we first started to see in aviation the emission credits that national carriers were purchasing.
And to me, I was dismayed to see, you know, just in a way that the rubber meets the road.
It was it was a it gave the industry a chance to to foist change and growth.
And to me, like it was at one time before the inception of like this notion that you could make people feel better about flying all over the world
by telling them that they were purchasing carbon credits to offset the the carbon emissions from flying.
So we stuck with jets rather than moving back to like, I think that we will see pusher propped like a massive change in the design of aircraft
in which the engines are pointed backwards, which curiously enough is a much, much, much more efficient way to build an airplane.
But rather than see that we've seen 20 years of large fanjet engines that that the existing airframe models were not designed for.
This is what led to, you know, Boeing 737 crashes with the with the 737 Max aircraft.
And so these are some of the reasons that I like, you know, I get and I think that the like Chia's contributions to the carbon markets are going to be essential.
But I also see the big problems in that sort of in in in a world in which we can we can ship, I don't know, the the the ecological the ecological blah, blah, blah.
Sorry, I have a dog who's biting my hand here. Stop this.
The the ecological consequences of our industries into another part of the world, like if if you can buy a forest in Costa Rica to continue to fly everywhere, is it fair to Costa Rica?
And what has it done to the the natural the the natural forces of changing industries in in like, you know, in aviation?
Yeah, yeah, I mean, certain markets are certainly going to have like the most amount of carbon emissions.
So those are probably the best ways to go tax.
And and, you know, I think you always see business people get in like I think our Cubans always been in the news about carbon credits last year is when he started like his new company that says they're going to do like a billion dollars for
sequestering Congo carbon credits.
So it's like there's these other businesses that are still coming in and investments that are coming in, but they're all not using, you know, Vera and others yet, right?
Like they want to kind of have their own initiative. And at some point, you know, if if you want to be factual and, you know, you want it to to go through Vera's and the carbon markets, you're going to have to assimilate
and go into the world's biggest. But, you know, I think one of the biggest issues is it's just it's there's big businesses that can utilize it for economic growth.
And it's it's it's happened that way for a long, long time.
So, yeah, I think that's the biggest aim for the world bank is to utilize, you know, they used to change their the world bank change their name.
I think it was last year where it was the it wasn't the Climate Action Data Trust.
It was like the the climate warehouse.
So they basically stated like the climate warehouse is a all encompassing program and the CAD trust is like a function within that warehouse.
So they realize they can't be the only thing.
So they're trying to bring everything in together that would be utilized on characters.
Right. And go ahead, monkey. No, no, Karen, Karen.
Well, and going back to the World Bank, I don't know if it makes sense when I say that the World Bank is moving is is moving their denomination into carbon credits.
But the World Bank has something called special voting rights or they change the names of them over a couple of years.
But basically, the amount of dollars.
visions of the International Monetary Fund is how the United States as I mean, when we talk about third and second world countries, it goes back exactly to that system.
And those countries that are receiving loans from the IMF are are the second world countries,
those who had opted out or third world countries and or as they prefer, the global south.
But, you know, the other aspect of this is is if everybody is not playing the game, then does it work?
And and so, again, like I don't know if that makes sense as to I think a lot of people don't understand why World Bank and why carbon is so important
to the World Bank. And to me, that is it, because part of the problem that the World Bank saw before is that the United States, as we see price inflation and begin to understand monetary base inflation of the dollar,
it was a huge problem that we could just create dollars, send them to the World Bank and there not be some sort of limit to the number of dollars in parsing out, you know, effective altruism to the rest of the world.
Yeah, and I mean, the World Bank makes sense. I mean, they're, you know, if it was like a Google or something, you know, to big companies throughout the world, but the World Bank certainly makes sense with their directive and it's like a central location to go through.
So, you know, I think just over time, you're going to see this natural progression of going to the World Bank and, you know, if you've got programs that that are sequestering or doing carbon removal, you know, it certainly makes sense to to go where all of the big players are.
But I think, you know, the biggest issue they keep referencing is they're trying to get everything, you know, diversified within the climate warehouse and that would be utilizing the cat trust, because right now, like, there's so many different areas that are completely spread out.
And I know I hate to say it, but I think one of the biggest thing is carbon taxes will certainly be a bigger presence and that is going to force the utilization of like a safe system.
Like if you're being taxed at a business level per ton of carbon emission, you know, you want to make sure that you're not like implementing a system that is not fully monitored well, which has always been historically something with the carbon market that has not done well, which is why they need a blockchain utilization rather than a company they go to.
You know, you mentioned sequestration also and and we talked or I mentioned earlier, the the emissions, you know, this and and so so sequestration is is like an ocean of what
I mean, is is there is there like an outlet that you see or options in which they're amalgamating? Because it would seem to me like a sequestration concept would figure in differently than like paying off or buying emissions.
So carbon sequestration is like turning into biofuel. So that's the actual removal from from the atmosphere and then turning into like a biofuel.
You know, you could use that as like another energy source, but those ones are very, very minimal.
It's it's not a big part of the market yet, but those those are the ones that are worth the most like if you're looking at monetary value.
But it also requires the most amount of capital investment, right? Like if if you're, let's say, a poorer country in the world, you don't have billions of dollars to create this technology to utilize it.
So, you know, the sequestration of it will certainly be more evident in the future.
And again, I think I think the biggest thing that's going to happen is you're going to see carbon taxes and on those costs will go to like those who pay for services or just the general public.
you know, I'm sort of changing the subject slightly, but, you know, people like Elon Musk, you know, they'll they'll come out and say, you know, you can you can fill up X amount of fields or, you know, this space with solar panels and we can power the United States or we can build these giga factories and we'll produce enough power, batteries, whatever, to to power the United States, you know, I mean, are these things actually realistic for starters?
And this is really the idea behind carbon credits rather than rather than a tax is the bigger picture to kind of force the world to go down this route where we are using more solar and more, you know, renewable energies, you know, is that the bigger picture or are we just being taken for a ride basically to to sort of take more tax more money from us?
looking, looking at like carbon reduction, I think is the biggest theory that they want to go. So if you look at the carbon emissions over the last like 20 years, it like exponentially keeps going up. Now, the reason for that certainly is more energy, but when it comes to like, I can certainly talk on like the, you know, energy sector for
you know, solar panels, they're not incredibly efficient at this point, and they've been around for a long time. You know, you're, let's say for one widget of energy in, you're getting 0.25% out at best, and that's at peak.
Now, obviously, it's not sunny 24 hours a day, the transfer from, you know, the photovoltaic cells and putting that into battery storage. It's the most efficient process we have now or wind or, you know, you could have dams like water, hydro, but the biggest issue with those is the battery storage.
And so for the degradation of solar panels, they degrade quite a bit, they have to be cleaned, which, you know, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but the batteries itself, they degrade about 1% per year. So in the utility industry, every four years, we replace a certain percentage of those batteries, depending on how well they do, because you're, you know, moving energy from cathom to anode, which is not necessarily a bad thing, but the batteries itself, they degrade about 1% per year. So in the utility industry, every four years, we replace a certain percentage of those batteries
but it's certainly not efficient. And like, you know, one industry you look at is like, the lithium industry, right, where those prices in stocks before were really low, and now they're getting higher. So it's just like another market to go. And then also like, what do you do with the batteries when they're all done? Because these battery storage projects are, they take up acres and acres of land.
They have to be cooled as well. And, you know, no different than like if you have an electric vehicle driving the cold doesn't really do that well, no different than batteries. So that's always going to be like a big issue.
One of, I don't know, I'd say one of the biggest issues that you're always going to have is just going to be a constant need of replacement and removing those batteries. And when you're doing batteries at megawatt capacity, it's a large capital investment.
And as a business, you're going to have to recoup those costs somehow. You know, in the utility industry, it's a little bit different because those costs were transferred to your ratepayers and they offset and have to pay for them.
And then, you know, you could do rate case increases. And then just over time, you increase the price and consumers don't have an option. And the other thing that will happen, right, like you see in California, a lot of residential areas have solar, but they still have to pay to be connected to the grid.
Unless you're completely, you know, isolated and you're not connected, then you're not paying a big price. But, you know, an average home, you're probably spending $80,000 to $90,000 to do that for how much like if you don't want to completely impact your day to day life.
But as in, you know, as a whole homes, users just use a lot more energy now than they ever have, which is, you know, it's not going to change anytime soon.
Yeah, I mean, that's that's it sort of it's sort of kind of disheartening, isn't it, really, when you think about it, to sort of that extent that, you know, that the sort of solutions are perceived to be maybe a better solution for the environment, et cetera, et cetera.
But, you know, when it comes down to bottom dollar, there's probably not going to be a great deal of difference and probably going to be more expensive to do it that way. So we've got Walter on stage and you've asked to pop up. So, hey, Walter, how's it going?
Hey, guys. So I'm a friend of Lucas's here. He invited me to the stage here. I was just curious and listening. The carbon tax credit stuff is very interesting stuff to look at because Lucas actually nailed the point perfectly.
He said, does the system actually work if not everybody buys into it? And the answer to that is really just no. If you if you look at what's really happening in energy distribution across the world right now, China is producing 300 new coal plants to be up within the next year.
They've produced 20 new nuclear plants that are going to be put up in the next five years.
You know, the deal is when we're telling these countries and telling these different places when you need to buy carbon credits and you need to do this sort of thing, the places that don't pay attention to these rules are the ones that are going to excel.
And all the countries that do this are going to be hindered. It's very easy to see it. When you look at the amount of energy that's being produced by China, they're going to be an economic superpower simply because the amount of energy that they're going to be able to produce over the next few years.
It has nothing to do with the carbon credits concept. The reason it's so unpopular is because it's actually insanely expensive for the countries that try and go along with it.
If you look at the net zero statistics that have shown up across a lot of these different countries in Europe, every single country that's tried to push the net zero by 2030 has lost a massive percentage of their energy production.
In UK specifically, I believe you sound like you're from the UK, monkey. I can't really tell you that. But I mean, that might be true. I mean, how much is your energy cost gone up for the average home? And that's that's a good question to start with.
I mean, it's gone crazy. It's gone crazy. It's tripled over the last two years, I'd imagine. It's crazy.
Yeah, I mean, that's why they consider in places like Germany, you can now can be considered energy poor, right? I mean, they have no energy production anymore because they've had to go backwards.
The reality is when we tried to move to these, you know, the idea of renewable energy is laughable because what the better thing to do would be to further the world using fossil fuels as fast as we possibly can and then reverse it back down to the idea of using renewable energy.
But instead, we decided to just throw out all of the energy production that we've done in the past 70 years and try to create this new renewable structure that just simply doesn't work.
I mean, just the windmills that everyone talks about. No one talks about the fields and I mean fields and fields and fields of these propellers that they have to be changed out that are completely non biodegradable.
They just sit there and rot afterwards. I mean, these things are not made from good materials and not made from new renewable materials.
But my favorite personal thing about the windmills specifically that a lot of people don't know is that so my older brother runs and produces oil down in Texas, West Texas, he builds oil pumps.
And he said the windmills are the funniest things because when they first show up, the oil producing companies actually love them because they can tap into the energy to run their pumps.
But the funniest part about them is that each one of the windmills has 2000 gallons of oil in them as the lubrication is the lubrication.
So they're not even renewable in that manner. So it is hysterical that we believe that these renewable processes are going to be so much better for the environment and everything else when they're not doing anything to help us really.
I live amongst a field of windmills and my uncle was actually the head of whatever, Wyoming's Royal Electric Corporation.
And I was very interested years and years and years ago when I asked him about wind energy and he said, well, no coal companies going to buy it or coal companies will do everything that they can in order to not co-opt into that system.
And I mean like going like maybe going getting away from getting away from window because, you know, he asked me he asked me, like, why, why do you believe in wind?
And I said, well, we own a farm and there's there's no coal underneath it. But by God, we got a lot of wind on top of it.
But you know, it's also interesting that like the wind concept that we've embraced and the solar concept that we embrace are also piggybacked on this national grid system.
Because because I do think there are valid concerns in and it is and it is a very real political question as to how much energy do you want to produce?
You know, like the thing that we've done in in in setting up our grid and coal companies is to expect more, more, more, more, more.
And is that always necessarily a good thing? You talk about getting behind according to China, but why are we in a race with foreign countries?
And, you know, this this to me is part of the like the is why this will remain to be an issue and is something that like we need to be looking at this carbon structure and improving, not just throwing it away.
And, you know, I'm all about water.
And and I just want to go to to like the current concepts of water are in fluctuation as to as to, you know, the the lies and the stories that we've told ourselves.
So in Colorado, everyone will tell you about their water right. But what they won't tell you is that there is a price for the replacement of water.
And we ignore and price the the cost of water so low as as for it to be is as it to be unnoticeable.
You know, that the town of Nucleus spent forty five paid the federal government forty five dollars for the water that they had.
Now, politically, what this lines up is is whenever if all you have is your call on water and you pretend that there's an unlimited amount, then what happens in a dry year is is those places of political power.
Los Angeles and Las Vegas call for that water and nobody's going to tell them no.
And in two years ago, you know, two years ago or no, it was just last year of the federal government paid on behalf of Colorado, 13 billion dollars to the states of California and Nevada because Colorado had used their water.
And in the meantime, rather than rather than building more reservoirs and holding water in in not just not just large reservoirs, but what we call buckets of water and everywhere that we can, we have a system that is that is empowering those political voices to call water at a time of need.
So that's a really good point, Lucas, because one of the biggest things that California has done badly over the past 50 to 60 years, you know, they have this big problem with the fires and everything.
And part of the reason that they have these issues is because their refusal to actually do anything in the environment around them.
They haven't built a water reservoir in California since 1975. I mean, that that is a huge mistake on their part.
What on earth were they thinking not doing that? And then all these fires start popping up because they haven't done any deforestation.
I mean, this stuff is preventable. And if we had intelligent people in charge, we would have prevented this stuff from a long time ago.
Yeah, agreed. And the fire the fire effect is 100 percent right, too, because just like water, you have a tragedy of the commons and you have great groups of people gathered in a city who say, well, let's just section off 30 percent of the land and 30 percent of the forest and 30 percent of the water.
When I think it's actually a much more nuanced, you know, like what we need to be doing is like not every tree is the same and people don't understand.
Like, I mean, like if you if you're grazing the forest, like what it is actually a fight over is the fairness of who gets who gets to enjoy in those rewards.
And if we can't have that conversation at a local level, then those people at the local level levels are the losers.
And so, you know, to me, to me, like like doing a do not like understanding a denomination of resources is not is not the Achilles heel of the carbon system.
What the Achilles heel is, is the is sort of the top down structure. And this is also why I think that blockchain can bring to it a breath of fresh air.
So go ahead, Dusty. Yeah, I was going to mention, like with their issue is like old distribution lines that they don't go maintain.
Like if you're a business, you've got capital budget and you've got an operational budget.
So when you get to be really, really big, you know, operational maintenance budget, you can't get those dollars back.
So PG is biggest issue is they didn't put what's called the reclosers on old distribution lines.
A recloser will work in cycles like 60 cycles in a second.
So what that'll do is when there's a fault, it'll completely wear like a short circuit or completely remove electricity, but big, big utilities.
And, you know, they just didn't have them on there, which, again, that's that's why they got sued hundreds of millions of dollars and they went bankrupt.
I think they've gone bankrupt a few times now because they're they're really trying to transition to to this other area.
And then and then, Walter, one of the comments you made earlier, you know, again, like these renewable projects, these large interconnects are great.
But they will run into an issue at some point, like you do need nuclear because you've got something that's called phase rotation.
So you can't have a completely renewable system because the 60 Hertz is like the American system that we have.
And once it gets to a certain level, you remove renewable projects off the grid because they are pulling down the Hertz rates.
And that's actually a point. So one of the products, I don't know if you are familiar with the company, my family's company, Lucas mentioned that you're a utility guy.
So I'm curious if you've heard of power monitors incorporated or power quality test equipment group.
No. Anyway, well, in one of the products we produced is actually called a we call it the seeker.
And it's designed so that when renewable energy products, something like solar panels.
So one of the issues that a lot of these utilities that we work with run into is that when people have solar panels and whatnot on their roofs and everything else like that.
And the grid is in the middle of the day and it's some peak moment.
Well, the grid is not really designed to have energy produced back into it rather than being going one direction.
So that's I believe that's what you're speaking about, right?
Yeah, you just have to keep that like you have to keep.
Well, in the States, we have we have 60 hertz. So once you get to like point five hertz below them, then you just just drop that type of source off.
But, you know, in the States, again, you've got a lot of petroleum, you've got coal, you've got nuclear, natural gas is still the biggest one.
So these have like these are creating phase rotation for three, three phase ABC or one, two, three every place is a little bit different how they talk about it.
But it is certainly an issue. And that's what you could never really go to truly like all renewable.
You basically just need to have generators that are turning to keep that same hertz rate or or you or you damage like the rate of electricity within a grid.
And then you just then you just drop those renewable sources.
So, again, I think I think there's always this idea of like we can go 100 percent renewable, but we would completely have to rechange how the grid is done.
And I don't know if that would ever happen.
I mean, maybe the problem gets bad enough that it does. But, you know, you you have trillions of dollars of infrastructure installed that is set to work with certain a certain hertz rating.
So it's not like a simple change of like changing like one or two things. You've got breakers, switches, transformers.
You've got a lot of already installed infrastructure that is already set for the system.
So it would be a big, big change within a system. And, you know, renewable does make a big sense.
But, you know, it could never be the biggest producer for our current set up.
So I mentioned earlier, Dustin, that that part of the problem is the is there is no I mean, if you're paying an if you're paying a utility to to supply the amount of demand, then there is no question about like what is that demand.
But here I think is where Chia and blockchain really brings something new to this to this concept of carbon, of of denominating the world in carbon or energy production, because like look at look what's going on.
You know, we had early in the blockchain revolution, everyone was just running towards these proof of work, proof of stake chains and doing things that were that were targeted blockchains or targeted computing, targeted, distributed.
Like, think of distributed computing, distributed proofreading, etc., etc.
And I think that I mean, I've I've said for a while, like, I think 2024 is going to be a revolution in crypto of going back to this concept and actually implementing it.
We're seeing the helium network combined with T-Mobile revolutionize internet access and telephone access in Miami.
And I think that this is going to be part of of what we will see in I mean, if if if you if you can put well, if you can, if you can begin to, I don't know, pay people for if you can actually pay people for the amount of energy that they're not using, then the system might work.
I guess that's what I'm getting at in short.
Yeah, the biggest issue with that is we use so much more electricity than we ever used to like a kind of figure before, but about five years ago, you know, one megawatt was 250 residential homes.
Now one megawatt is 80 to 100 homes. So just as a society, we're using a lot more electricity now than we ever used to.
So you have a lot more generation that's needed. And it's just, it's not going to change. I mean, if you look at like your day to day life, think of, you know, five years ago, how many times did you see a Tesla on the road, not that often, or especially if you're somewhere cold, but like in bigger cities, you see them all the time.
And they have, they're just kind of pushing them out a lot more. And, you know, these are like up to 100 kilowatt hours for the battery sizes and some of them.
So it requires a lot of pull from the grid. But yeah, you know, you'll probably get some sort of system in the future, but where you're not taxed as much or you're not, you get some sort of credits back.
But, you know, the biggest issue is just things increase over time. You'll get to like rate case increases. I think like California this summer off peak is 86 cents per kilowatt hour.
So it's pretty significant. And if you, you know, for those that live in California, they can talk a lot more about it, but like the rates continue to go up.
I mean, that's what happens when it's really populated and you have a lot of energy pull those businesses still need to operate and provide you with electricity.
So it's not a great scenario because it's going to happen year over year. You've got inflation, you've got an industry that always has an increase for their wages.
These are unionized people where every year they get X amount percentage more, so then everything costs more. And that's why you can look at any of your own utility and just search their name and rate case increase.
And you can find so many articles of why they're where they're happening. You know, it's it's a system that's going to ever increase.
So this is this by economists. Go ahead, Walter. Oh, I'm sorry. I was just mentioning the fact that, you know, this is a factor in my state. I live in Ohio and I've been watching the energy rates go up and up and up and up.
It's almost directly correlated to the push towards the renewable energy as the number one provider of the energy in the area, which is one of the reasons I'm so against the idea of just throwing out the old system that was working and was actually able to support the grid that we were in the area.
I mean, West Virginia alone produced more energy for the local states in the area around them in the states around them than any other state in the region. And we decided under Obama that we were going to remove the coal plants because, well, we just don't need them, apparently.
Well, that turns out to be wrong. I mean, like you just said, the amount of energy that we are requiring and using is only going up. So why would we start removing sources of energy that we have?
All that's done is increase the rates within West Virginia and in my state by 30 percent in the past four years. I mean, those rates are only going to go up higher and higher and higher. And the local utilities in this area just released information saying that the rates are going to continue to go up by 1 percent every month for the next 24 months.
So, you know, everyone in my state is now going to be paying almost 50 percent more for our energy than we were just a few years ago. And that's because we've decided we don't want to use the reliable forms of energy that have existed forever.
I mean, West Virginia went back and they don't even need to use coal. West Virginia has mass amounts of natural gas resources as well. If we just went back to that, we would actually have enough energy in this area that we'd be able to produce.
Now, California is unique from what you were just speaking about a minute ago, because California hasn't produced any energy production in a long time. California, almost all of their problems for energy production is entirely due to their own policies.
Yeah. Well, Dusty and Walter, you're both saying something that is a trick that Kings once played and now our Federal Reserve and Treasury play on us.
You know, like we say that rates and rates go up and up and up. Well, this is where the notion of inflation comes in. People say, why inflation? Well, because it's easier.
You know, if you're inflating the monetary base, then the prices on different areas are up to political gamesmanship.
And so what we've seen is, I mean, especially like looking in the last couple of years, whenever a real monetary base inflation has been, well, go look at the raises that our governments are giving themselves, somewhere around 10%.
Meanwhile, they talk about 2% to 4%. And so they go around and pick winners in industries as to who's going to be actually getting like the real money or the real increase in price over the monetary base.
And this is this is so to me, this this argument over, you know, the price of energy is actually a political argument over how much money that we're making and who's in charge of eliciting the winners.
Yeah, one problem that you're going to see in the future as well, it's a lot of utilities aren't producing their own, can always produce their own electricity. So they have these things called interconnects that tie into the grid.
These are multi-billion dollar projects. Some of it comes from the inflation reduction act that companies get to get back, but you're always going to see the rates go up.
Because you're then going to have to be buying energy from these companies. And there's things like, from the inflation reduction act where they have like investment tax credits and production tax credits that are providing money to these companies that are buying and selling, it's just going to continue going up and up and up.
And there's going to be, I think, I think, I think a really good timeframe to assume would be like by 2032, you're probably going to see a tax credit, a tax system in the states come in.
Because that's when this inflation reduction act kind of ends the money for putting renewable systems into the grid. So you're going to see a lot more, a lot more things come at a later date.
You know, when the inflation reduction act came out, I understood what they were getting at by trying to curtail the amount of energy production. But the sad thing is, is that as long as, I mean, again, it is a political money is a political phenomenon.
And if we're not addressing, like, if the groups of people who are affected are not addressing those, those rates or making those decisions, then it's very easy. Or it is the it is the political slip and slide to foist it on to somebody else that you don't see, not in my backyard, whatever.
So, I don't know, it's it's I'm glad that we're talking about the info inflation reduction act. But will it really, will it really curtail inflation? I mean, has it curtailed inflation?
No, I think it was just called that just to get it passed through. Because because you're going to see tax credits, right, like 2025 is when the inflation reduction tax care start taking place.
So it's going to be like a like a greenhouse gas emissions tax.
So that's that's, you know, 2025 is in the States when you're going to see this huge transfer and stuff like, oh, you're going to be losing capital wealth for your business.
If you're a large emitter of carbon, and you have like this rollout period till 2032. But that's when you're really going to see it impact us.
And yeah, I mean, think of like, it's super easy to look back, like think of how much like a subway sandwich was over a while ago, like you can go get like a $5 foot long.
And now it's like 15 bucks for that same sandwich or $12. So like everything.
But meanwhile, I mean, but meanwhile, dusty, while that is, you know, like a 5% increase in the price, we've increased the monetary base by 30%.
And this is this is like the true problem. I mean, I mean, when we're printing a trillion dollars every 135 days to service debts, then those people who are who are who gave us the loan 3040 50 years ago and are now are now pinned to the to to to the inflation of the monetary base are going to remain winners.
And, and, you know, like, and I love that we have a conversation about energy. But again, I'm afraid this has got to be a conversation about money.
And, and again, I don't I don't mean to say that that the carbon market is not a, I don't know, a step in the right direction, etc, etc.
And certainly, like putting it on a blockchain, absolutely necessary if it's have is to have any chance for success.
But we have to begin to understand that that price inflation is not monetary base inflation.
And, and we need to, we need to, in my mind, we need to have very regional currencies that are that are exchanged against this concept of energy production.
I think, yeah, I mean, I mean, ultimately, what it comes down to really, I think is, you know, what sort of circling back to what I said a minute ago about, you know, is this really, is this really about looking after the environment?
Or is it really about looking after the economies around the world? You know, is, you know, if you look at if you look deep enough, pretty much anywhere, any problem is either caused or solved by money.
So, you know, and regardless of Chia being involved with, you know, creating the, you know, the system behind carbon credits, you know, and I guess, you know, the big question is really, you know, is this is this just sort of some sort of way of,
you know, involving money, and just another another tax, really, rather than actually achieving anything in the long run.
You know, I don't, the more I sort of learn about it, and most of this is for you guys, I have to say, so the more I learn about it, the more I think, well, you know, is there more extreme ways of doing this?
Or is this the best way to do this? You know, I just don't know. And, you know, the more I hear sort of, you know, yourself, Lucas, talk about, you know, the behind the scenes stuff that, you know, let's face it, 99% of us don't really understand or know about or care about.
It sort of fascinates me in a way. And it sort of, it does, it does, like, is it, you know, is it just is it just a scam? You know, let's beat around the bush. Is it just a massive giant rug pull to to get more money out of this?
I don't know. I don't know. What's your thoughts?
I would say that it that it that earnest people have tried to seek solutions to two problems. And rather than fighting the fighting the world denomination by the dollar that they tried to seek a parallel system.
So, you know, monkey, I don't talk about my project. I've actually made some massive inroads in the state of New Mexico, because I look at the carbon, the, the, the, shall we say, energy monetization system and say that, well, we need to work with this and we need to improve it.
But again, to me, it's not like, like what we seek is emergent solutions. And we need to we need to bring political conflict to localities. We need to like, that is the way to to minimize political conflict is to keep it local, you know, keep it with your neighbor.
And to that reason, I think that we should be we should be considering this carbon monetization or or carbon denomination scheme at a municipal level or at a county level.
So that like, because if if you're if you're thinking of this at a local level rather than at a world level, then the solutions of, oh, you know, like taking millions and millions of acres and turning them into untouchable land and then policing that amongst groups of people is not going to be is not politically feasible.
Or if it's at a town level and and I mean, to me, this is all comes down to municipal accounting, you know, economy and this whole notion, like economy is run politically for so many years on this notion of inflation.
And it abused the the Rawlsian veil of ignorance of those people who are involved with it, which is to say, again, you know, like every like our political our political economists run to the grocery stores and talk about price theory and pay attention to prices while inflating the monetary base and sending spigots of money through the banking system to wherever they need to put out a fire.
Now, and think about like, and I don't know how I don't know how you pay your utilities in in the UK. But here in the United States, we have some nominal I'm just going to stick with water because it's it's the most easy.
It's the most easy utility to get to. So so like in in in the town of Springer, New Mexico, where I live now, you have your we are allotted 9000 gallons per month per home.
And that number isn't real. You know, we have a reservoir where it's 6000 6000 feet to to drill down into the water table below us.
And so we use water from the sea water on river that come from the song or the increase the mountains. And we have a reservoir called like eagles, like eagles nest. And we know very, very real number of how much water that we have in expectation of the coming year and in each month.
Do we figure that out and divided amongst the people who live in the town, and the ranchers and everyone know we tell them that they have a right and the right is like how how early the first person came and applied for that right and they and they have an unlimited amount.
That's not real. What we should be doing is is saying to people instead of at the end of the month, like, Did you use your 9000 gallons? And this is how much you owe and you have a fixed amount that is that is that is going towards the the maintenance of the lines and the and the cleaning of the water.
No, we need to be saying to people, this is how much is in the water is in our is is in our water budget for this month on the very first day of the month. And we need to say this is how much your take of it is or how much your share of it is.
And and then, like, if we settle that at the first of the month, we can pay people for the amount of water that they don't use because we've given them an actual number to begin with of what is their share rather than than persisting with the lie that there's an unlimited amounts and that the price is going to have any effect on the amount of use.
So to me, that's where the solution is, is merely at a local level figuring out what the what the share of resources for those local people are and and then setting up local monetary systems that reward people if they forgo some of that use.
I mean, could that could that happen with power though, Dusty?
I would say a very unlikely because because those are those are businesses. I mean, yeah, like, no, no different than I'm sure with water as well. Save the same system, but, you know, unfortunately, those are energy producers that have large costs.
These are, you know, entities that spend billions of dollars a year, so they need to make money back in. And then when you incorporate as a business, you know, you're not gonna have a business that just like breaks even every year or shareholders of that private entity or just not an investment.
So like, it's a fantastic system for water. I really like that idea. I mean, it would be having people to be more conscious of what they utilize, you know, you don't have the shower running for like five minutes just to warm up.
But for that for the energy system, unfortunately, it's for it's a it's a profit based system where most of them have shareholders and that's what they're, they're going to work towards is going to make a profit.
And as things always increase, I mean, as we never see the price of electricity decrease.
You know, we have different classes of water. And of course, we have different roles for the commercial for commercial water, agricultural water, municipal water, ecological water.
And you're absolutely right, Dusty, but when you talk about billions of dollars, those are just made up.
You know, that's part of the inflationary lie that is that has propped up a system that robs localities. And, and, and I do agree that it won't work for the grid system, but we talk about energy production and we don't necessarily get into the massive grid.
Now, why does Texas have their own grid? And I know, I know that they get thrown over the bus for not being able to meet the band in 2019 in the winter in a cold snap.
But at the same time, you know, Texas also recently on its Republican primary talked about forming its own bank and, and, and many others and many other things that basically we're saying we're getting off the dollar and, and, and our, our energy grids, I think will begin to fracture along like what we see as, as, as new regional monetary systems.
So, I mean, like, I think like we talk about energy production, maybe we should be talking about the structure of the grid system, like, like how feasible is it to be and how much loss is there, you know, we produce energy in all these places, how much loss is there transferring it, and also, again, like,
you know, like why, why, I don't know, like, like it is also politically, I would say unfair or, or not nuanced is not a nuanced system that that takes into possibility all the different energy production that we could be having everywhere.
And I mean, I'm thinking of, of forests in New Mexico that are uncut and yet, you know, burn at 3 million acres of a time, like, we're kidding ourselves if we say like we shouldn't be using wood for fuel or, or at least adding that to the tranche like nobody has jobs in New Mexico why because all the, all the forests are sectioned off.
And they're owned by the federal government and they're preserved. And so we have no, we have no industry in logging we have no, we have no industry in furniture.
We have no industry in, in grazing in, whether it be sheep or cattle, and those were traditional industries that we used to have. And now we expect people to sit at home and do what?
Move to a city so that they can, so that they can stand next to a water cooler and participate in the job market of fake money that's distributed by the federal by our Treasury Department and the Federal Reserve. I don't think that system is holding up very well.
Yeah, so you're, you're losing like five to 10% like loss from like your generation to transmission and eventually to distribution. That's a pretty decent percentage that you're losing in the state's net grid.
going to renewables to like, like, I mean, you know, they're like Walter was talking about massive windmills, but like the town of Springer has a solar farm.
Like, you know, in Australia, the windmills aren't aren't these massive, massive things that are designed to contribute large amounts of power into the grid, but ours are supposed to augment our home use.
I think that that it's a much more viable solution to be trying to figure out how to, how to power and, and to use batteries, especially iron batteries, rather than lithium or nickel or other light metals like what, you know, like if if a battery doesn't need to be moved, why didn't, why aren't we making it out of
more, more prominent resources iron being a top of the list. And I think those are, I think those are some of the solutions that we're going to see.
And I don't know about the ins and outs of the accounting of the of the energy that goes in and out of the grid. But, you know, like you also look at a town and you say, if you're, if you're going to have solar solar panels, why isn't every, every, every house,
in the town have a solar panel on the roof? Well, again, it goes to a problem of paying and fairness. You know, Austin has Austin Texan has long had programs where you could apply and get solar panels on your roof, but they can only handle like 200 homes a year.
And so like, what, what could be a good idea and a much better solution has been handicapped because there are large corporations who want to protect their bags and send money to their shareholders. And we have been politically unable to to break that cabal.
Yeah, I don't, I don't know if that would ever change. I mean, you'd need like, something completely different, like a different system you need like a state run, like, like in the states like how the mail system works, you would need like a large entity to kind of hone that.
And you know, one thing to also think about like, you have a thing called nameplate generation. So X amount of megawatts, you're already losing converting that type, one type of energy in and doing energy transfer, you're losing 18 to 20% right off the bat just for energy transfer.
So it's, it's not an efficient system either. And, you know, just think of like, when you're driving somewhere and look how old infrastructure is at times.
Well, that, that like the, the age of our infrastructure has everything to do with, again, like the, the amount of monetary base inflation that has occurred. You know, think back into the late 80s and the 90s when people were talking about the tailors of the
And, and fixing, fixing the, the inflation to 2% that were the monetary base inflation to 2%. Why did that never take because because our system is untenable without picking in winning picking losers and those losers have been, you know, like at the very least, like our infrastructure,
why our infrastructure is very easy to overlook. What did we do? We just, for, for years, politicians just increased the time window of, of, of how good that infrastructure was worked, whether it be a bridge or a water line.
And we've come to a point where a transite pipes in the ground hauling water are collapsing. And, and, and politicians, if you go back and look in the 70s or 80s, they say, well, these pipes are good in the ground for 20 years.
20 years came up and politicians just got around a table and said, well, we, we have a report from a, a, a very knowledgeable person who says they can actually last 30 more years.
And everybody just nods and they said, oh, okay, so 50 years, we don't have to worry about this for 30 more years. Great. And, and this, you know, that, that is when I talked about the picking and winning of losers.
I'm not talking about somebody in a dark room with a wizard and a green curtain, but it happens at the, it happens just like that right there.
You know, we don't have the money to fix this. We're going to pick what loses our infrastructure loses.
So yeah, I think most systems have like a run to fail system in the States. You just run it until it breaks. And that's like predetermined time of how long these water systems can last or electric systems can last.
And then you, you, you only fix it when it breaks.
The town of Springer still has cedar wooden lines.
I mean, that, that's the world over though, isn't it? You know, I think, you know, you just look at mobile phones, you know, they're, they're built to, they're built not to last, aren't they, you know, that's the world we live in now.
So it's a, it's a throwaway world, unfortunately. And, you know, that, that, that's a different topic completely. But I mean, just to sort of try and try and sort of wrap things up in the next sort of 20 minutes or so.
But I mean, where do we think, where do we think this is all going to be in say, say a year's times or say, say, yeah, say a year's time and then maybe five years time and then maybe 10 years time.
Where do we think we're going to be at? Are we going to be at the stage, say, you know, in a year's time where, you know, it's going to come more mainstream understood and something that people are going to start paying attention to?
Or do you think, again, it's just going to be, you know, pushed to the side, pushed to the side until, until it starts actually hitting people's bills, you know, when it comes to whether you're buying something from a shop, whether it's at the petrol pumps or whether it's at, you know, your utility bills, etc.
So, I mean, where do we think it's going to be in, say, say a year's time, for instance?
Dusty, you want to go first? You want me to?
I'll go first because I can definitely talk for a bit about this part.
Well, I'll go first because I just want to talk about sort of the monetary or like the political attention paid to it.
We're absolutely going to see more and more discussion of carbon.
It's like corporations, especially international shipping corporations, Sumitomo, etc., etc.
And governments are well aware of both the problem of the world denomination of the dollar.
And when I say the denomination of the dollar, you know, like you can just like in the crypto sphere, you can print all of your L2 that you want, but it's L1 that matters.
You know, like if you make all the monkey zoo that you want, monkey, like it matters what the base price of chi is.
So, and the world has been trying to get off of it and carbon, the carbon market is the best alternate solution that they've had, but it certainly has its problems.
I saw recently the Jamie Dimon. Well, number one, Larry Fink and BlackRock, and this sort of move to crypto,
I look at like the BTC, the exchange traded fund and things that we're seeing as off-ramps for people to get off the dollar and onto carbon.
And again, I mentioned we were making one or we have to create one trillion dollars of debt every 134 days to service the debt payments that we're already making on the dollar.
That system is untenable. People talk about revolution, etc., etc.
No, we're just going to move to a different system. And then states and other debt holders are going to fight over how much of a haircut they take of fake numbers.
So I think the carbon markets are absolutely crucial. When I hear that Jamie Dimon sold 125 million dollars of JP Morgan stock and people say, what's he going to invest it in?
He's not going to invest it in the stock market. He's going to invest it in carbon.
And I don't know what that'll look like, but the stock market is denominated in the dollar.
And again, if you're printing a trillion dollars every couple of months, then that's a huge problem for somebody who's looking to, I don't know, for some sort of security in the future.
So I think that's what we're going to see. And then also I mentioned that we would see different regions who are taking the ideas of basing their monetary systems off of energy production.
And I think that we will continue to see that. And it's not as threatening as it sounds.
You can do it through sort of like this top down carbon structure, or you can do it through commodities.
Commodities rely on local resources and local production.
And I mentioned that we have these tiers of first, second, and third world, depending on who was playing ball with the first world countries who had all the money in the liquidity pool versus who was getting loans from the IMF second world countries to those third world countries.
Well, these global south or third world countries are definitely looking into commodity exchange rates and having monetary systems that are based on commodities.
Those will be much more tied to energy production more so and less gainable because they're actually bound by the workers in the land than a carbon market.
So the carbon market definitely useful, but I would also be looking to commodity based monetary systems.
Yeah, I completely agree with you. I think that you're going to see a taxation come in, and that's going to be the avenue that is utilized.
And yeah, I mean, the stock market sale, I mean, that makes a lot of sense.
These are big industries that are going to get into a market that has buy low and sell high at some point.
Yeah, I think at some point, I'd say by 2025 through 2032 in the States, you're going to see a larger impact where you're going to be seeing carbon taxation on just your day to day purchases.
You're going to see a lot more happening.
And that's the only that's the only system that we have right now is like to tax.
But I mean, what difference does it make if you tax in the States and some countries, but we have other countries who don't tax at all.
You know, as mentioned before that, like China and other countries are using a lot more coal.
And I mean, it's a it's a cheaper way to go just because these other systems are really big and expensive to have like nuclear systems.
You don't really see too many nuclear except for Bruce Power in Canada is probably the only one that's really been pushing for it.
But yeah, you're going to see a lot more taxation in the future.
And it's just it's going to you know, it's going to be taken advantage of by companies.
I think that's probably one of the biggest risks that you're always going to see if these big companies come in and spending hundreds of millions of dollars buying carbon credits.
You know, that's it's a yearly to yearly admission thing like it's not like you buy it once.
So it's a it's a great cycle for money that you're always going to make something.
So that's why it's I think at some point it's going to turn into like a game where people are businesses are going to be utilizing it.
I just unfortunately, I think, you know, that's it's the backbone of it is it's going to be utilized for profit.
Isn't that that's sort of like a bit of a sad state of affairs, really, but I guess that's the world we live in, isn't it?
If there's money to be made, someone's going to make it, you know, and it would be nice.
I mean, another question would be is, you know, is there is there anything that we can do as, you know, the sort of bill payers and the people that pay it?
You know, is there is it ever going to get to the stage where, you know, like like Lucas was sort of saying there on a micro level where in my household, I don't use as much power or, you know, I, I choose to, you know, use my energy provider that only provides power from, you know, whatever it is.
It's not like a good old power solar.
You know, is there going to be is it going to get down to that level or is it or are we just looking at attack sort of across the board? It's going to happen. And we're all just going to have to lump it like it or lump it.
Yeah, I think I think the difficulty with that would be you need to have a pretty big capital investment to do it yourself to be completely isolated.
You know, let's say the average home system with like battery storage as well as, you know, solar or other other sources you're probably spending at minimum sixty, seventy thousand dollars.
So that's why a lot of people don't don't do it because they look at that rate. And let's say your bill is two hundred dollars a month right now. It goes up to two twenty five, two fifty.
It's like that, you know, discussion of like at what point do you realize that you need to make a change? And and again, you're spending two thousand dollars a year, three thousand dollars a year.
It's easier to like pay for it monthly rather than saying, hey, you know, you're going to work out a lot more money up front.
And then still then you still need to change out your batteries, you still need to change out your panels. So it's a great alternative, but it isn't going to be a full replacement.
You know, it certainly works. And then you have to be more diligent of like, all right, here's my per kilowatt per day allotment.
And, you know, where where am I going to become more efficient? And then just to touch on the soccer game that's going on, hopefully, hopefully you're a fan of that.
Can I go there on the outside?
No, I was not. No, I was not. That was a ridiculous decision. Yeah. Yeah. Tax that. I don't know. But yeah, no, I think I think sort of wrapping it up then.
Sort of the next, you know, the next few minutes. But, you know, it seems to be that it's coming regardless. It's coming regardless.
And I would like to think that it's going to make a difference somewhere. I really would, because, you know, there's been there's been so many different sort of schemes and things.
And obviously, I live on the different different part of the world to you guys. So things are very different.
I mean, my my electricity bill over the last few years has gone from, say, one hundred and say one hundred and fifty pounds to two hundred pounds a month, which, you know, U.S. is what?
Two hundred and fifty dollars. Canadians, obviously more. But it's now at five hundred and fifty pounds a month.
You know, and that's that's now affecting lots and lots of people. That's now sort of creeping into where it's affecting middle class families.
And I don't know sort of across the U.S. how you know what the price prices are or anything, really.
But, you know, I think I think we've got to be very careful about how this is implemented, you know, when it's passed to the customer.
And and what we do have here in the UK is we have a lot of choice or we did have a lot of choice until until all this power problem hit us.
But, you know, we could pick companies that source their electricity from, you know, renewables.
We could pick companies that did this and that. You know, we had a very good, I guess, sort of market when it came to options of, you know, who we who who is our provider of electricity.
You know, the infrastructure is obviously the infrastructure, but we had choice there.
So that's what I was talking about when it comes down to, you know, if a company can supply their power to a household.
I don't quite know how this works, but, you know, in such a way that that it is more eco friendly, then surely that that household shouldn't be taxed as much.
And I guess it comes down to like, you know, anything else in the world, recycling, for instance, you know, there's households that recycled sort of due diligently.
And, you know, there's not a thing that goes in the wrong bin, for instance. Again, I'm referencing the UK here.
But and there's households that just chuck everything the same business like fuck it, you know, it doesn't matter what's the difference, not going to make any difference.
But so I guess, really, is it ever going to get to that stage where, you know, if you follow the rules, you do your bit, you know, you buy your vegetables, not in plastic bags.
You know, you we sort of go back a little generation or two where, you know, we shop differently, we choose our providers differently.
And, you know, I would like to think that that's going to make a difference to us at the end of it, rather than rather than just the big corporations taking the money, being able to afford to pay whatever tax they can pass it on to us job done.
But yeah, I think the last few the last few spaces when we've talked about this is really an eye opener from from lots of points of view.
You know, I was going into this looking at it from from sort of the cheer blockchain technical point of view.
And, you know, it's really clever how it works to having a better understanding of sort of the global the global repercussions that are going to come from this is going to be it's going to be huge.
And like the question there about, you know, where it's going to be in a year, five years, 10 years, I think 10 years from now, it's going to either be a massive problem or a massive solution.
And it's going to be really fascinating to watch that journey go. So, yeah, we'll we'll fight across to you guys for a last sort of final comments and then I can watch the last 20 minutes of this game.
But yeah, Lucas, go ahead.
Well, monkey, I thank you for having these spaces and this series of conversations.
I don't think that there's a more important conversation to be having. And to your question as to whether we're going to see change or we're going to be stuck in mired in the same system.
I think that we I think that like monetary systems that had limited amount of supply like the Bitcoin have already been just giving giving people who did not have a frame of reference an ability to imagine the world in a different way for for 15 or 20 years.
I mean, I would say and I like I say like the Bitcoin because the movement had begun even before then it it you know, we can we can pick all sorts of landmarks and blah, blah, blah.
But I would you know, I was in Argentina in 2007 and I was talking to someone about the dirty war there.
And I said, what changed? And he said, well, it was there was like this slow, slow, slow progression.
And it was like all of a sudden everybody opened their windows. And I think that like we come to a point in which everybody opens their windows and says the dollar denominated world system, one world currency system has not worked.
But the top down the top down notion of an inquisitorial, you know, one world power running the world is is it is not congruent with our humanitarian values and that we that we turn and have those conversations.
And again, I look at El Salvador and Argentina and other nations in the global south. And I say that it's already well on its way and has begun.
You know, like we don't see a world in which everyone is is there. There are some people still dying to get into America because they believe in the in the narrative that we have a money tree that grows in Washington, D.C.
And if you stand close to it, then then you have the fruits of those benefits. But there's a great larger number of people in the world who have decided to solve their political conflicts at home.
And, and I hope that we start to in the UK and the United States, where we have these fabled money trees sooner than later.
Yeah, I think to help tie it back to Chia, like as these other utilizations of the carbon marketer being put in as part of the climate warehouse, you're going to see a larger utilization on the CAD trust.
So it's certainly going to happen. And it's in a year or a year thing, right? So if you're if you're a business or someone who's looking to make money in that market, it's like a yearly system that needs to be replenished.
So for the CAD trust, it will be utilized quite a bit. And I think one thing that we're going to experience is at some point, it's going to be more significant fee pressure.
You know, that's kind of what you want for a blockchain. But as more countries and more adoption happens, you're going to see a tie back to that.
It's just, unfortunately, a system that isn't going to change anytime soon. And it's just become a lot more reliant on it.
And then just to your comment before, like if you could go to companies that have like renewable sources, renewable projects are a lot more expensive than non-renewable.
You know, unless it's like nuclear is the best thing that you could have. Like in the future, you'll see small modular reactors that are able to move around.
They'll probably see those, but the technology is not there yet. So that that would be the long term solution to to replace renewables, to replace other things because because you again, you run into a phase rotation issue in the future.
But yeah, I just, I look forward to more utilization with Catross and you can kind of see them talking about it more and getting more integration.
And if you look at the observer node, there's just a lot more utilization. And, you know, year over year, you're just going to see it get bigger and bigger and bigger.
I mean, for us to use Gia and talk about like the good it does. I mean, it's a proof of work chain that uses hard drives.
And so it's it's not as bad as Bitcoin and others. But overall, it's probably like one thing that we utilize a lot more is just like why, you know, why the systems are going to work for them.
Awesome, awesome. Yeah, no, I think I think, you know, I really do appreciate you guys coming and giving up a bit of time and dusty, you know, giving up your sort of Sunday.
You know, really appreciate it when you've been able to come in. And, you know, I hope to do this again. I think I think, you know, we'll give it a bit more time and and see where we are.
But, you know, any any time that this this topic of conversation comes up, you know, it's always going to interest the cheer community because of, you know, the way that it's all operating on top of it.
And, yeah, no, I really do appreciate you guys time coming in and your knowledge base as well, because, you know, I've certainly learned so much.
I really have. And and it's and it's sort of exciting and scary at the same sort of time, really. And I do I do wonder where it's going to be in a few years time.
I really do. And I think, you know, it's worth us doing this conversation every sort of six months or so just to see where we're at and, you know, have a quick sort of recap on on how things are going.
You know, not only from the cheer side, but like you say, from a society society side as well. So, yeah, no, I appreciate your time, guys.
And we'll we'll wrap it up here. So it's a reasonable time for people to listen in on the return.
And again, I just want to thank everybody for yesterday for supporting the monkey zoo project.
And, you know, the winter monkey launch was a massive success. And there's about probably well in about six hours time, five or six hours time, the the halving for halving event for the winter monkey finishes on Mint Garden.
So if you're if you're still looking or on the edge, there's still some one XCH offers there, which will be going up to two XCH after that, after 10 o'clock my time.
So a quick plug there for for myself just as we finish off. But I think to wrap it up, then a really a really great sort of three episodes of some really interesting topical sort of debates as well.
And yeah, appreciate your time. So any any final, final words from yourself, Lucas? I know you'd like to talk.
Sure, monkey. One final word. I'm going to be doing a new morning space with American Mission with Walter and Patrick Rafferty.
And and Walter has already deemed me that and I was not aware of his background in energy.
He just I had brought up carbon credits recently in a space with him and he was very knowledgeable.
So I invited him in. But I can assure you that we're going to be talking a lot about this from a political level and getting into the weeds of what's going on at the state and federal level in the United States and around the world.
And it will be a topic that I can't I can't stop turning away from.
Obviously, it's my whole project in one three. So then and by the next time you hold the space, I hopefully will will have some of the complex thoughts like condensed into into more digestible sound bites.
But thank you, monkey. I and dusty. Thank you so much, too. Like I learned a lot, too.
I was very excited to get a deep and nuanced view from you like we we had spoken in several rooms.
And I always I always appreciate finding out, like, what is the what is the you know, what is the view from from the actual implementation?
Like the you're where the rubber meets the road. And so good stuff.
I think, again, I think probably this is tell tell all your friends.
This is the most important conversation that you've heard on spaces and Web three.
And you can tell Elon and Kim dot com that, too. Yeah, I appreciate the conversation.
I certainly love to do it like every quarter. I can provide some sort of updates.
But it's the utilization of the states. You know, I just want to make sure that monkey can put on his Chelsea jersey and watch the game as well.
So try to know where I would say, how dare you? How do I read?
If as we say, if you're not read, you're dead. Yeah, let's wrap it up, guys.
Thanks so much. We'll do it again next week. I'm not sure what the topic of conversation will be next week.
But it probably won't be as intense or we'll play dive more into the NFT world, I would imagine.
But yeah, appreciate your time. And I think we I think we got a guarantee there that we get a quarterly review from Dusty about Chia carbon credits.
So that sounds like a done deal to me. And yeah, let's wrap it up.
I appreciate everyone coming out to listen and especially you two guys for giving up your time on a Sunday.
So yeah, catch you all next week. Thanks very much.