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Coffee with Captain from @dGenNetwork
Recorded: May 15, 2023 Duration: 2:40:03Space Recording
Full Transcription
We'll be right back.
Now I got coin.
I see where y'all are going.
Papa says web one.
Hello, I'm on web two.
I was living the dream.
Now I'm on web three.
GM, GM, we'll get rolling here very soon.
Thanks for joining us.
Happy Monday.
This episode is brought to you by DGEN Network, the only community-based web three media network,
bringing you the very best content in the NFT and cryptocurrency space.
Please visit DGEN.network and check out our other great shows.
That's DGEN, D-G-E-N.network.
Welcome to the future.
GM, GM, happy Monday.
Hope everyone had a great weekend.
Steve will be joining us.
We'll get rolling here in a bit.
If you haven't done so already, drop us a GM down there in the chat below.
We'd certainly appreciate it.
The space is linked up above if you feel so inclined to share that today.
And again, hope everyone had a great weekend.
I see Ben Eethminer, not to be confused with Ben.Eeth.
Ben, I don't believe you are the recent recipient of $6.9 million via presale, correct?
Yo, that move was crazy.
It's the fastest DGEN raise I've ever seen in my life.
Pretty wild.
If you're not familiar, I know Whale dropped a thread out this morning.
I'll go see if I can track it down and drop it up above.
It gives you pretty much the breakdown in, I don't know, 24 tweets or so.
But yeah, it was, I don't, I'm kind of at a loss for words.
I don't really, I don't know.
Everyone can find Whale.
Actually, I will drop it up above if you want to read it.
But I will probably delete it later because I don't want to give it attention or drive more.
Actually, the presales is closed.
I feel like I'm in a safe zone.
Presales closed.
The public sales not went live yet.
So yeah, just attempting not to draw more attention to PSYOP, I believe is the, this, this presale that is on the back of the bin coin.
But in better news, blue chips are, it was a good weekend, Steve.
We're up four-ish percent across the, across the index.
Things are appearing like a little, some healthy movement we haven't seen for a bit.
Reverse the trend as of late.
And big, busy week with VCon.
I know we've got a couple of normal shows here Monday through Wednesday.
I mean, we'll run it back every, every weekday at 8 a.m.
But Thursday this week will be a special show.
We'll be live in Indianapolis.
Sean from Alien Friends hooked up an incredible spot for us.
Really excited about that.
We'll get details out.
If not today, we'll get details out tomorrow or Wednesday prior to Thursday morning.
But yeah, everyone that's going to be in Indy this week, hope to, hope to see all then there.
But Steve, GM, sir, you slept well last night, I see.
Yeah, I, I definitely, I mean, I was up early.
The reason I was late is I was finishing a couple Starbucks things before the show that
I wanted to get done because we're on some, some tighter deadlines and we have VCon this
week.
So I'm trying to get ahead of it.
And this weekend was spent, God, probably 12 hours worth of writing.
I think if you did the math on how much I'm being paid for the book versus the amount of
hours I spent writing, I'm probably making below minimum wage, but it's awesome.
And, uh, we finished our official sort of like, like this draft is, there's going to
be like cleanups because, and I can explain process if people really care about the process
of writing a book, but this draft will need like our editor to comb through for consistencies
because we'll like move stuff from the end to the beginning.
So like when stuff like that happens, you need to make sure you don't say like, as we mentioned
earlier, when you didn't mention something earlier, but like the actual book as a whole is
like kind of structured right now, like a book.
So I spent an ungodly amount of time on that this weekend.
Um, has worked with Scott, you know, for a couple hours yesterday, just combing through
and making sure, um, all of our, like for people who are, you know, haven't written like
sort of longer manuscripts, there's a, and I don't understand why it's TK for it to come
because it's not C it's K, but, uh, you put these letters TK in places where maybe you
don't quite have an example or something, or you'll be like, you know, like boarding
yacht club, moon birds and TK.
Cause you want to find an example later down the line.
So we filled in all the TKs.
There was like, I don't know, like 70 of them yesterday on the phone.
Like where we rubber hit the road or we need to fill in examples or sentences.
We couldn't quite figure out how to put.
And, uh, yeah.
So it's like super excited yesterday when we finished that, uh, that round and are getting
ready to send to some test readers, send to our editors.
So, um, was a busy weekend for me.
I did not get down.
I see you remove the psyop, uh, thread from, from whale above.
I did not get down on that one.
Um, and, uh, follow that super closely, but yeah, overall, I think, um, nice, nice little
weekend in NFT land.
Seems like things are Pepe pumped a little bit.
So I got out of Pepe and turbo for now.
Um, so yeah, so I don't know what, uh, how was your weekend overall?
But did, how did the, uh, meme street treat you?
Was it break even Steven to a T?
Uh, no, I, I was down.
I ended up down a little, I'm probably the only person in the world who lost money on Pepe.
So I ended up down ever so slightly on Pepe.
Uh, ever so slightly on turbo.
Um, I probably am, let's see, I'm probably up ever so slightly again on, uh, my overall
meme coin plays, because there was a couple that I played with last two weeks ago that
did pretty well.
So, um, relatively close to break even Steven, but, um, no, it was, it was fine.
And like, there's comes a time sometimes these things too, like at least the way I play them
where there's sort of these combinations of risk tolerance plus attention.
So for me to pay attention to Pepe and turbo was more, you know, exhausting than keeping
them in my bags for like cutting the losses at that point.
Um, plus I'm starting to stack a little bit of ETH and, and sell, except some Weeth offers,
do some things because I'd like to work myself towards probably a clone pretty soon here.
Um, my shopping list is sort of like clone squiggle, uh, D God, uh, in that's sort of my
list at the moment.
So I've been thinking a lot about what I need to do to get that.
Um, I was talking in the war room a little bit.
I might, uh, next pump, maybe sell my mutant and then buy two of those three, right?
Because you could probably get a squiggle or a D God, a floor stay relatively similar.
No way.
No way.
What you think?
I mean, I guess if mutants really pump, I mean, I I'm in the market, I've got my mutant
listed.
I may roll into a squiggle.
I mean, you'd have to, you'd have to sell for like two X floor to get two of those three.
You can probably trade your mutant first.
Maybe I misunderstood.
No, no clone.
So like if mutants pumped by a few ETH, let's say that they did.
Gotcha.
Gotcha.
Gotcha.
Yeah.
And then I'm thinking like, yeah, yeah.
So that's fair.
Yeah.
Like I've got mine listed in like this, I don't know, 16.69, some, some sort of mean pricing.
And I think floor went up over 10 over the weekend.
And yeah, that was my thoughts.
I don't know.
I've, I've been on the fence with D gods also a squiggle.
I just don't know.
Like with D gods, I know we'll have a catalyst soon with season three with squiggle.
Squiggles, like, will we, like, it's just, it's, it's, I'm wondering, like, I'm not overly
confident.
Like we've actually seen the, the, the true bottom.
And so like, I'm still awaiting that moment for a squiggle entry, just because I don't,
I think without a catalyst, there's a chance it could, it could fall with the, with the
market, but it definitely hasn't dipped nearly as much as I thought we'd see like sub five
squiggles in this bear and good game me.
But yeah, I definitely would like to like to add one to the vault sooner or later.
Yeah.
And that's kind of what I'm thinking is like, honestly, I don't particularly care about the
price.
I just want to own a squiggle.
So it's like, you know, it's like, if I, if I, like I said, if I were to, if mutants
pumped, let's say my mutant pumps to like, you know, like, let's say they pumped to 15,
for example, and squiggles stay flat relatively at 10 and Izuki, I mean, Izuki, I mean, um,
clones stay, you know, let's call it like, you know, three to four, then I could theoretically
sell the mutant, get the squiggle, get that, or get the D god, get the clone.
Um, that, that's kind of the thinking that I have behind there.
Um, cause I'm, I'm trying to like more and more, just like spread myself to the things
I want.
Ultimately I'll decide if I ever need to sell them or want to sell them, but, um, owning
a Ute's great, but I feel like a D god is sort of the top piece of that ecosystem.
And I, I just like what, um, I just think that there's something there with that community,
um, and that team, if they put it together, um, put it all together.
So, so yeah, so that feels good.
And like I said, I just want to own a squiggle.
Like when I see people who own squiggles, I'm jealous.
Um, you know, it's, and it's not just like about like FOMO, it's like, it's something that
is deeply connected to what I do and what I love.
And so it feels like it's just one of those things I should own.
Um, or I want one as my signature when I, at some point in my life, it'll be like the
squiggle to be my email signature.
My, my, my personal signature is a very sloppy, uh, Dr. S like CJ it's, it's illegible.
Um, but I could, I would, I would, uh, target a squiggle that looks like my current real life
signature.
Yeah.
I, um, I, I, I, it's funny.
Like I use my board ape as my business logo and my, uh, it's funny actually too.
Also work discussing by the way, and I thought it was interesting, the war room.
So GM, everybody, by the way, as always, I know we're coming in hot.
Um, you know, we'll, we'll maybe talk a little psyop, maybe talk a little bit, you
know, with, cause now that the pre-sale is over, I feel like we could, it's newsworthy,
right?
Um, that's what I said right before you joined here.
I felt we're in like a safe zone because the pre-sale is over.
It's not live anywhere.
The listing is not live.
So like we, I feel like we can talk about it without, uh, driving any extra attention
towards someone making purchases live on the show.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So hit us with the GM, hit us with a, like, uh, a bookmark.
If you do that sort of thing, I, I didn't know that people do that sort of thing, but people
do, and I've heard that the alpha, um, give it a retweet.
If you are feeling so generous, uh, we'll get this room kind of warmed up and going,
but yeah, I think we got Ben inside.
I've talked a little this morning.
I had a take over the weekend that I did not expect to, uh, I was just expressing my feelings
and apparently it, um, it, it got a lot of, uh, uh, a lot of attention.
So that tweet continues to get a lot of replies to it, which I'll pin to the top in a second,
um, about just people fighting for sport at this point.
Um, like I said, I don't, I don't think it's for sport actually.
I actually, like I thought a lot about this over the weekend and yeah, I, I just, I don't
know.
I think it's the critique is, is warranted.
Do you think that it's bad that you only made $6 million on codependence?
I don't, I don't think it was fun.
Like I saw some people that like that was fun, but I think it's vastly different than some
of the other stuff we've seen on the timeline.
Do you think it's, do you think it's bad that, uh, that, uh, Proof partnered with one
of the, with the largest streaming platform in the world and put no effort towards it?
Uh, that's actually, I think it's bad that they put no effort towards it.
I think that's the bad part.
Yeah.
I think it's a, it's a comps issue again.
Again, like someone who wants to root for them, it's like they need to stack wins and
this is one like they could have took a win, but they like, I just, I just feel it's like
it was a miss.
They continue to have misses.
I think, I think the critique there on like, I don't, is it going to hurt them?
I said the other day, it's probably like a nothing burger, but it was like, I think someone
said in the, in the war room, they just recently, they were approved past day one or, and they
recently let their proof pass go.
It's like, it's a ghost town in there.
And I think this is part of the reason, like, because of the mixed community sentiment, it's
they need to be very thoughtful with all their stuff.
Like you just said it, you nailed it.
There was without any thought involved, like they need to be very intentional with each of
their moves, each of their announces that that may suck.
Some may disagree with that, but I just think in terms of some sentiment and momentum is
such a real thing.
Like, I just, I think they need to be more intentional with their partnerships and, and
their communication.
It's not like it's the end of the world.
It's not like worth even, it's not like necessarily newsworthy, but I do think that the critique
is fair.
I don't, I still don't fully understand the critique.
So like, I, first of all, I don't want any of my teams that I like sort of products that
I'm buying and investing in walking on eggshells for what they do or turning down.
Like if a company reaches out and says, Hey, we want to do this with you.
Let's, let's do this like gated thing.
Let's test this new use of the technology.
I wouldn't want anyone to turn it down.
Like, I mean, again, like if, if like, whether it's Ugar or D gods or any of them, I wouldn't
want them to be like, yeah, you know what?
Spotify, no thanks.
Because we're worried that people may not like it or it's not going to move the floor price.
Like that's, that's not, I just, I would respectfully disagree.
I, if, unless there's an intentful plan, like it's a distraction.
I do.
That's how I would operate a business.
Like, unless it's like sometimes nice to haves are distractions and not nice to haves.
And I think this is like, we saw this play out in real time because of the response.
Like it could have been a, yeah, thanks, but come back and talk to us when you actually
have something Spotify.
We don't want you to use us and our, our audience for you to like test the web three waters.
Like, I think there's real critique there.
I think we also heard from Violetta and other web three artists and musicians that there
could, this could have been a home run if done with intent.
That's all I'm saying.
So I think, yeah, the critique's fair.
And if, if holders are upset about announcements that just missed the mark, I don't think there's
anything wrong with that.
I think it's, I think Yuga hears them and sometimes they're not fair, but I, you know, I don't,
I don't see them firing back or, or, you know, outside of the, outside of the other side
meant, which by the way, that's actually the newsworthy stuff we should probably hit on.
I really don't want to spend the whole morning talking about proof again.
I think a good chunk of our audience is getting pretty, pretty tired of the, the continual
proof, both on both sides of it, just ongoing discussion when it's really like to, to, like,
we'll mostly agree.
It's kind of a nothing burger that it's not really the leading news headline.
But, um, the, the bigger news I think is in the Yuga system.
There's something like 52 million ape that comes unlocked here, I think mid month.
Uh, so any day now I'll go get the exact details.
So I'm not misleading anyone.
And then, and then, uh, ape staking gets cut another goes from like 30 million to 20 million,
I believe is the, is the next, uh, the next chunk.
Uh, and that's June 1st.
So I think there's some, I'll get the data here.
So I'm not just speaking from the hip, but, um, yeah, I just, I think critique is fair
and that's part of like building in public.
And I think that what we've seen is those founders who snap back, um, it's just, it's
not well received on, on the flip side.
It's, it's very disheartening when you see someone say, Hey, I'm dropping this, this coin
and there's nothing.
And they, they raised $6.9 million.
Like it's, it's extremely difficult to be a founder and a builder in web three now.
And, you know, on that topic, another, another more newsworthy, I'd rather get into is like
stuff like, like shout out to the clouds of the world launching in this.
I don't even know what on, on cred is, I think I'm pronouncing it right, but I saw,
you know, tease, tease the project, something he's building.
He promises it's not a, another, uh, another meme coin.
Although that's the, that's the, like the short path, right?
Like the short path to, to attention in this industry is we've, we've seen time and time
again is make number go up and it's, it's not healthy.
I want to get away from it at the same time.
I don't think any founder in the space who's building in like the community sense can be
naive to community and market sentiments.
It's just, it's, it's an unfortunate reality that something that they have to think about
in this space that CEOs and, and business leaders, founders in the past never had to
think about, like they had to think about shareholders.
Yes, sure.
They had to think about the market is in the, the, the, the stock market, how they would
respond to numbers, but in terms of like hanging on every word and every announcement, this
is, this is a new error.
And it's just like, we can get upset and it's like, oh, they're fighting people.
Like that's not fair to the founders or we could embrace and be like, okay, what could
we do better in the future?
Because it's, it's an ongoing thing with proof.
And I think that's, that's the issue.
And then, and then sometimes the response to it, it's just, it's adding fuel to the fire instead
of just embracing what this space is.
I'm not saying it's good.
I'm just saying like from a, from, you know, the, the outside perspective, seeing others
navigate a little more gracefully.
I do think that all moves should be, I mean, it's your word intent.
I think be very intentful in this space from things you take on partnerships, you take on
collaborations and, and announcements.
I think it's whether we like it or not, it is, it is a big deal.
So yeah, not, not, and again, not specific to prove, like you said, I'll, I'll kind
of move past that one.
Cause I, I will, I will hard disagree with everybody who thinks it's very, it's bad for
them to be talking to the world's largest streaming platform in any way, because I didn't
say it's bad for them to be talking to them.
It's it to do something without any intent or any plan.
I don't think is, is good for any business or company.
That that's what I'm, that's my critique.
I won't do it at the moment.
I'm sure I could look back and find like countless examples of Yuga and other ones who just did little
things like this here along the way, but it doesn't matter.
Like it's, it's proof they tend to get funded no matter what they do.
And that's fine.
Like I get it.
It's part of the game, but to me, I was just going to say on the whole, I think we also
need to need to move away from the word FUD.
I think FUD is too, like sometimes FUD is real FUD, fear, uncertainty, and doubt.
Other times it's just critique.
It's criticism.
Like that's, that's okay.
Like I want critique.
How can we be better?
Like that's, that's like, if you see me in VCon and we're having a conversation, you want,
like really want to connect with me, tell me how we could make this show better.
Like I, I want that critique.
It doesn't seem like a lot.
And again, not proof.
It doesn't seem like some founders really want the critique.
They just want everyone to be happy.
Yeah.
See, I, again, that's where like, I think we're kind of talking out of both sides of our
mouth here.
Cause I think we both had the conversation again, if we end up going this direction, like,
cause you're kind of referring to them being like, Hey, everybody's like making a mountain
out of a molehill here.
Like this is just an opportunity to branch out.
Number one, I think we order, we ignore second and third order effects.
Like it's like, I, the example I use, like James clear atomic habits, like he wrote an
article, I forget what it was on that.
Like basically had no, like he wrote it and it was like, you know, maybe not the best use
of his time, whatever, it was just a blog article he wrote.
Well, that blog article eventually got used later down the line in a New York times article
where they wrote it like a couple of years later on the same topic.
CBS this morning called and said, Hey, we'd like to have you on the show to talk about
this.
Right.
Um, and then while he was there, he's like, Hey, I'm writing a book next year, which ended
up getting his book launch exclusively on CBS this morning and getting a overview.
Like, I think there are second and third order effects of this, of partnering with major
brands outside.
It may be nothing like nothing may happen.
Maybe another brand sees it and says, Oh, you know what?
We see what you're doing here.
We like it.
Maybe this is on that scale.
Like I just, we don't know.
Like this is even, we don't know yet.
Sure.
So when I wrote it, but it's not even new, that's the thing that they launched us last
month.
They launched it with overlord fluff kingship.
Like this wasn't, it's not, it's not a, I don't know.
I just, I feel like there could have been more.
What are you doing with it?
And then the answer was, was like, Oh, it didn't cost us anything.
So why shouldn't we do it?
I just, I think it could be better.
That's all.
Yeah.
No, I think like it's, I don't know.
I think what you're saying is completely different than the reaction, which is fumbled the bag
again.
What a terrible, I bought 30, I paid 30 ETH for this.
Like that's the part to me that's silly, which is what I saw more of.
Like I didn't see the nuanced discussions of like what Violetta was saying about Spotify
specifically.
I also didn't see people all over the timing timeline talking about fluff being a complete
failure because they did.
Right.
It's like, it's, it's just the whole thing, whatever the conversation is silly to me.
It's like I said, like, we don't know what's going to happen when you're having
these conversations with, with the larger brands.
I want, again, we'll disagree on this.
I want the NFT brands I'm investing in not to be insular to web three and say, we're not
talking to major brands in web two or before I want them to have those conversations.
I want them to be partnering with them in different ways.
I think it's productive and good for the brand.
And I think long-term, that's what I'd like to see.
I think it can only lead to good things.
I don't see any downside to it.
I see zero downside to it.
Right.
And to say like fumbled the bag on something with zero downside is silly to me,
but like, again, that's different, you know, opinions.
And that's why I consider it FUD when people are talking about something like it's like
people are acting like it was like the CC zero announcement, which was a big mistake
in my opinion, or canceling proves a conference, which did suck.
Like, this is just like a partnership with a web two brand.
It's good.
But either way, whatever.
My point being like, I think first we ignore second and third order effects sometimes like,
you know, and I've seen it enough times happen in my life or something that maybe
was just some time I spent on something or some things I did led to other things that
led to other things.
And I just think it's like the opportunity there is like the upside way outweighs the
downside.
So, you know, that is what it is, but it's just, I also have a, you know, overarching
disagreement with there's a difference between managing holder sentiment and catering to what
the holders here are asking for, because essentially, and I saw multiple people say
it's not just related to this, but other companies in general where they just want something
that makes the number value go up.
In fact, I had someone respond to me and say, a good successful thing to me is something
that makes the value of my asset go up, right?
That's it.
And if that's the case, then drop a speculative coin in your, in your, in your, or drop a,
an inflationary asset that lets people sell and make a little bit of ETH.
Like, I just, I don't want my founders simply listening only like saying like, oh, well,
the sentiment's this, well, therefore I'm going to, you know, respond to make number go
up, which is, I think there's a difference between managing token holder expectations,
which is like something that, by the way, every company in this space has to reset who's
not named Yuga because Yuga just dropped something and it sells for tens of thousands
of dollars, but like, I think there's a difference between that and, uh, you know, sort of like
following and, you know, trying to actually execute and build a business right now.
I don't care that clone X isn't going to give me a bunch of free stuff.
I want to get access to the early drops and I'm happy to pay for them.
And that is why I'm buying a clone X.
I want to get into a club.
It gives me early access to drops.
If you listen to the holders, a lot of them say, we want this for free, this for free,
this for free.
We want, it's like, that's not going to necessarily.
That's not how a business works.
Like it's unsustainable and doesn't run.
So I just also think like, there's a difference between putting out a product that works as
we kind of figure this thing out and just, you know, kowtailing to like what your, uh,
holders are saying they specifically want.
And there's a difference.
There's a difference between like listening to actual critiques, discussions, et cetera,
or, you know, it, it just, to me, that's, that's a huge differentiating conversation.
And like you said, it's frustrating to me, I think a little bit when I see things like,
like, again, Yuga makes $6 million.
Like, let's go Yuga again.
Yuga makes $6 million selling codependents, right?
Like selling Koda Gucci collaborations.
And I see people saying like, you could, like, I have somebody talking to me in like the
DMs about Yuga failing in that execution.
They created some $6 million out of thin air.
And in a matter of a couple of weeks.
You can call Trasha.
I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll call him out to his face when he joins us sometimes.
Yeah.
It's just like, but it's like, it's just like, those are the ones that to me, it's just like,
I have these like irrational discussions where I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
Like, I just don't like, I understand the nuance of what you are saying about the Spotify
piece.
And I, I think that you are a reasonable human being.
Who was, who was, I can't like, I'm just my personal journey.
I came out of NFT NYC impressed with the team as far as their ability to execute live events,
considering a proof pass to where a few weeks later already, I'm like, eh, I'm like completely
off my list.
I would rather pick up a squiggle, a D God, a clone X.
Like, it's just like, like I, because it's, it's not that I don't like the team.
I love the team.
I'm not the biggest fan of Kira.
I've made that very well known, but everyone else I'm a huge fan of.
However, Steve, I just, I don't know what they're doing.
I don't know what their intent is.
I don't know how they're going to be the art collectors, PFP for 10,000 plus people.
I just don't know where it's like all these other projects, even like squiggles who I know
what they are.
Like, like we can make jokes about, well, I don't know what a code it does.
I have a good idea what a code is does and what it will do.
I really don't know.
Like, I have no clue what an elder bird will do for me other than like get access to these
live events, which I'm bullish on it.
Just to me, it's not worth the current price of admission.
And it's like, I want them to execute on that, that true north.
And I just, I haven't seen anything other than, you know, doing their, their diamond
exposition and saying that art's their true north.
I just, I just, I truly feel that they're still kind of lacking like their way.
Like I, and I'm not being overly, I want to support them more.
I just, I don't think.
And so it's like, therefore, I think some of the critique, not FUD, some way too much
of the FUD in this space is baseless.
And a lot of it, it's just because it's, it's pure engagement farming.
However, I, I do think some of the critique to the proof team and how they're executing
on things is, is warranted.
And it's not to continue to pour on things like CC zero.
It's like, I'm looking them for the, like, what is the plan?
Like, what, what is the proof community a part of?
Like, and I was, I thought like, oh, they've got a very vibrant, like community of art collectors
come to find out.
That's not even the case when, in like the proof discord.
So it's like, I, to me, it's concerning where they're heading and I still don't think they
have a really good idea of like what their game plan is.
Like if they were saying, what's your business plan?
I don't know what we would see.
Like if they were going to like raise another round, like I have no clue.
I, I'm not like being facetious.
I have no clue what proofs revenue driver is other than like secondary royalties.
And maybe it's like, oh, we just got enough.
We're just going to bleed out our revenue for our, our reserves for the next 17 and a half
years.
I just, I don't know what they're building.
And it's just, so I think part of like the, the critique is, is double back down on your,
your communication with intent and that true North.
And I think they've got something there, but they can't deviate from that because I don't,
I don't think they've like, like, again, I just, I don't know what, maybe, maybe this
is part of it.
They don't know what they're doing.
So they're just going to grasp at things and maybe they find their way into art, music,
NFTs.
I just, that's, that's where I think the, again, I do believe the critique is somewhat
warranted.
And I have went from in just a, less than a month wanting a proof pass.
Like, yeah, I'm just not interested.
It's not that I'm, I'm funding them.
I just, I don't see like, there's no desire for me.
I'd much rather get a, a squiggle or a D God or a clone X.
Yeah.
I think you, again, like, I think there's different things in what you said.
And again, I'm not going to go down this rabbit hole deeply, but I would say one, there's
a difference between a more nuanced conversation, which we're having right now, which is like
combination of things.
Like, I don't think, I, I think there's a difference between somebody saying that they
fumbled the bag and I paid 38 to get a Spotify playlist, which is what I saw the majority of.
And what you are saying, which is you want to see them execute.
You're not sure that it's a sustainable plan, which I think a lot of people said when it happened.
I get that my pushback would be in two months, they've done a live every days with the people.
They've done a diamond nest exhibition.
They're doing a claim of a physical by snowfro and it's been like a couple of months.
So I would just, to me personally, I would be like, okay, well they've done QQL gallery
tours.
Like they've actually done things that are art related in the past couple of months.
It's just nobody, if people don't care and talk about them, then that's the market making
a decision, right?
For me, like that stuff is exciting.
The live every day is exciting.
I didn't get the physical claim.
That's exciting though, for me, as a diamond nest exhibition was exciting.
I like the artists.
I like learning about the art.
I spent two weeks learning about artists and their background and pieces because of
So to me personally, it's fulfilling.
It's not going to be that way for everybody.
And for you personally, I think it's a fair thing to say like, look, this doesn't necessarily
jive with me.
That's fine.
But I think there's like two separate conversations going on here, which is completely differentiating.
So I don't know, like that to me is like in two months, you know, to me again,
this is no different in some ways than, you know, the person in my DMs who's like, well,
you know, you go, how are they going to make money?
And I'm like, they made $15 million in two months over a course of like, without even
counting their secondary royalties, which are, you know, millions and millions a month,
even off their two top collections.
And that conversation to me is like silly.
It's silly to say like, oh, two months, $15 million is bad.
And, or, yeah, I think it was two months, like $15 million is bad.
Complete pivot.
But speaking of how someone's going to make money, I just watched air over the weekend,
fresh on my mind.
Incredible.
I know you're not as big a fan of Jordan as I am, but even if you're a fan of the second,
in your opinion, the second greatest player of all time, it is a must watch if you haven't
seen it.
Not just because the, you know, one of the lead actors is, is real name is Ben, but it actually
is a fire, fire movie and on Amazon, I thought it was like in the theaters recently.
So it's already on Amazon for free.
And then Alyssa with the real alpha, Steve, this is, we have to get to this tomorrow or
Wednesday is prepping for VCon.
I'm sure you've probably already registered your ticket.
I have not.
So the pre-planning for VCon, we must get to today.
Sorry for the interjection.
You just talking money.
You made me think about air and this is the best line and I'll tie it all together with
this.
But there's a scene in it where Sonny, Sonny is largely the individual that at least gets
credit for kind of making the MJ deal with Nike happen and, you know, being the driver
behind it.
He's also the one who was influential in the Ed O'Bannon case versus the NCAA.
So the, the, the guys had a tremendous impact on sports that, that no one probably knows until
you watch this air movie played, played by Matt Damon, by the way, another Matt Damon
Ben Affleck flick.
But I digress.
The, the, the, during like the pitch to land Michael, he basically says, everyone in here
will be forgotten except for you talking to Michael.
And like me, when, when we're dead, we're all going to be forgotten to forget our names
except for, for Michael, who's, who's transcended generations and greatness.
And, and, and then afterwards, afterwards, Phil Knight looks at him after Michael Lee's
like, you know, I think I've done some cool stuff here.
And at the time Nike was almost, he made the quote, almost a billion dollar company.
I think last year, the air Jordan brand alone did like 4 billion in sales.
So just, just incredible, uh, storyline from, from Phil Knight and, uh, and Nike and air.
And I don't know, I'll let you try to put it back on the tracks after that, but I had
to get it in there.
So I didn't forget and I knew I would.
And it's, it was, you got my brain already fueled back in, uh, the greatest of all time.
And if you haven't watched air, even if you disagree with the Jordan greatest of all time
take, you got to go watch it.
No, I mean, like, look, I love, I love MJ.
Like I, I love greatness.
Like I, I did book reports and MJ growing up.
I love him as a, it's just, yeah.
I mean, it's a, it's a fun conversation we have, but that movie is undoubtedly going to
be amazing.
So, I mean, I'm excited for that, uh, for sure.
But no, I mean, when it comes to money and revenue streams and we'll go, we'll go to
actually, we'll start appropriately with Ben here in a second.
Um, you know, I, I think that that's a question we're going to ask of every single, um, sort
of company in this space.
Again, I don't want to just sit here and just be specific to, you know, proof and what something
I think is very silly.
Um, I understand your perspective.
I'm just, I also think you're being more nuanced and looking at a bigger picture that a
lot of people aren't.
Um, I do think, frankly, to be honest, like people do FUD for sport at this point.
Like, I think there are people on the timeline.
In fact, I will tell you, I got some honest, you know, JK came on the show last week was
contrite and basically said, look, I probably stepped over some lines because he'd been
consistently going over and over and over at Cairo and the team and everything.
I saw a thread this weekend on, I went viral because of my controversial, there's a thread
on how to be controversial on Twitter.
The true story.
Oh, were you listed in that?
You said, no, I don't think so.
Oh, no, no, no.
It was someone else wrote a thread on like, they went viral because they, they put out
a controversial thread and the thread was like, here's how to go viral on Twitter.
Be, be negative and controversial.
Let me see.
I'm kind of looking through the replies because before I do want to go, I do want to read
this because I thought it was very honest.
So normally when people like critique, they'll like find a reason to say we're critiquing.
Again, you're a different case.
I know that you're thoughtful about things.
Cap, I'm not like calling this to you.
I'm saying this for a lot of people in this boat, I think will not be honest about it.
And I had probably in that thread where the most interesting thing was I probably had
three or four people respond with something to this effect.
So JK said, cause he, again, for people who don't know, JK was one of the people who came
out and talked about like, I wish this was an April fool's joke.
Oh my God.
And was like, you know, basically arguing with like K Rona, other people in the cop and
the team in the comments.
And then ended up getting, he was the one who got blocked.
He got unblocked, he came and actually started on this show, which is really cool.
Came on here, apologized.
And basically said like, look, here's, here's what happened.
So let me read you this.
Cause I think this is very insightful and I think worth highlighting.
He said, I put my reason for fighting moonbirds out there frustrated with the space right
now, losing value on seemingly everything I hold and taking it out on the wrong person
doesn't justify it.
But that's my story.
I suspect this has something to do with others too.
Also, if I'm being honest and this gets what you said, Cap, it's engagement for me.
I get 10 to a hundred X the likes and replies when fudding moonbirds that I do when I shout
out something that's awesome.
They do.
And I have negative attention sucks though.
Going to keep my fun in check after the past couple of days.
And look again, I'm not saying everybody in this world is fudding.
I'm not saying every critique is fud.
But I've been very like clear that I will critique when I think it's warranted.
Like I have for all of my bags.
It's like people accuse me sometimes of being like Wagney world.
It's like, I critique Yuga probably more than anybody, probably moonbirds the second most.
And those are the two things I talk about and enjoy the most.
Right.
So I think like critique is fair.
But I think it was interesting hearing the insight from somebody who was like, you know
what?
Like I was the person who was always in the mentions going after everything.
And he was like, you know what?
I think it was me reflecting my own feelings on what's going on, me reflecting feelings
about the market.
And I had a couple of people respond to like markets down and people are just upset and
I'm going in and I do it for this reason.
I had somebody who's like, I used to do it and I kind of checked myself.
And I think there's a difference between having real conversations, which I think we do on
this show regularly and just kind of tossing out there like every time something happens
finding a reason.
Again, I don't want to go back to it because I know people are sick of the proof.
Like the Yuga example, like I got some Yuga fun when people are telling me Yuga is bad
for making six million dollars on something they created out of thin air or Yuga is bad.
Can you believe that, Steve?
It's awful.
Six million that Yuga had to sell a Gucci pendant to make six million dollars.
One of their holders, some guy named Ben made six point nine million dollars for doing
nothing.
Like, how awful is that for Yuga?
Yeah, no, it's a good point.
If you have any other fake FUD that you don't believe in that you'd like to share in the
comments, that can be our fun this morning is what's the best FUD that you do not believe?
It's just purely ridiculous.
Well, again, we'll go with like, you know, the discussion we had last week where at one
point where we had somebody again, same person I'm arguing about Yuga, we'll just say, you
know, I know it was Josh that it might actually be bad that LeBron James wearing Kleenex shoes.
But I think he said, I think he said neutral to maybe a net positive.
And it's like, they're seeding their shoes with their top marketing asset.
And this is just the beginning.
That feels very bullish less than a year after acquisition.
Did you see DJ Khalid got a pair?
I am down horrendously in that because I also forgot that I had a little bit of a paycheck
coming in, not a big one, but enough that would have covered a pair or two of the shoes
last week.
And I realized I'm like, oh, shit, if I had remembered this, because like my money's inconsistent
because I'm a consultant and I'm not exactly swimming in money right now, which is how it
works.
I realized I probably could have swung a pair of those Air Force ones after all.
So I'm kicking myself even harder because if I thought about that last Saturday and not
been silly, I would have had a pair for sure.
But no, so Khalid, DJ Khalid got a got a pair and another one.
He got two sets.
He's the only only influencer to get two because of his and another one nearly as funny as
it sounded in my head.
But it's yeah, he actually did get two pairs.
It did.
The joke did not land at all.
I think it's partially like you and I were not sink there.
I thought you were going to say no, did he?
But yeah, but he did actually get two sets.
Yeah, him.
I saw little baby, you know, picking up a couple of pairs of I remember I texted bunch.
I was I think I texted bunch.
I'm like, little baby just picked up the more commies because we were looking at those.
So, um, no, it's tough, but I know we have a lot of hands.
Also, not sure how I got a Khalid Khalid in there without a pronunciation correction, but
we'll we'll I'll just check myself this morning.
It's a long weekend, like you said, not a lot of sleep woke up early this morning, so
I'm still catching up on coffee.
Um, that said, lots of hands coming through again.
Hit us with a like a comment, a GM down in the bottom right or retweet if you're feeling
so generous.
Um, we're rolling up, rolling hot this morning.
Let's go to Ben first.
Ben, are you getting royalties for your for Ben coin being out there?
Yo, GM, GM, thanks for having me here.
Uh, yo, I think this has been a imaginary weekend for all bands, but no, I'm not getting no royalties
on this one.
And it just amused me how fast he raised the money on a-
You better change your name.
You're going to have some baby mamas coming after you here soon if you don't look out.
Yeah, he's like, and for the jokes, like he raised exactly 6.9 million and he stopped
the fun, the, the, the fun race.
But yeah, I'm, I'm intrigued to see how that one is going to play out.
I think he's, I, I don't, I hate, I, I, I'm hesitant to give credit here, but I actually
think he's sharper and doing things with more intent than most are giving him credit for, including
stopping the presale at 6.9 million.
I think that was, that was programmed that was planned and like buying him a lady from
his, his main wallet.
Like he could have done that from another wallet.
I think that whole thing, he knew exactly what he was doing there to, again, he's playing
this, he's playing, he's playing the Twitter engagement game.
And, and he knows that that's, if you want to drop a successful meme coin, you gotta, you
gotta execute the, the Twitter engagement game.
And yeah, I think that not, I can't believe I'm giving the guy flowers this morning, but
yeah, I, I do think he is, a lot of this has not been just happen chance.
I think it's been planned and, and, uh, I think he's a little sharper than, than, uh, it
may appear on, on a surface.
Definitely.
Like I actually agree with a lot of what Will said on his strat, because like looking at the
facts that Will presented, seeing that he didn't have no engagement basically like prior
to Pepe.
And then he started becoming one of those people who were going to be a little bit of
Pepe influencers, and then he used that wave to kickstart, ban, uh, the token, which
then led to, to getting, gathering some support led to using BitBoy for exit liquidity.
Exactly.
Basically based off their connection from the telegram group, based on what BitBoy said the
other day on thread guy space.
Are you in, are you in the infamous bin telegram group?
No, no, I'm not, I was just hearing about it on this page because like, I'm not gonna
lie.
I'm intrigued of why, trying to understand why BitBoy Crypto actually got involved in this.
He actually presented this story as, uh, Oh, they knew each other from that group.
He assumed that everyone on that group is actually dark, so on and so forth.
And then he decided to take over this thing.
And then when he realized Ben wasn't dark, he was already into the type of thought process.
So I'm like, Hmm, okay, I'll pretend I buy this one.
And then Ben just used this opportunity to start the PSYOP token.
I'm like, yo, like, I've never seen anything more degen in this space, but let's see.
He'll either be like crazy successful due to all the marketing stunts he's pulling, even
buying NFTs from that wallet, as he's pointed out, me lady.
Uh, or it'll just be the biggest fiasco we ever seen in regards to degen plays in this
face.
So I'm intrigued to see the outcome, but going back to that movie that you referenced here,
like, I think that one will be a movie that I want to watch very soon.
And Matt Damon, he actually did another historical like movie, uh, which was Le Mans about, um,
Chevrolet car winning the race, uh, in France, which made me believe that this guy is actually
good with his genre or matter of movies.
And now that you spoke on a very good note of it, I want to watch it.
And last but not least, not to, to stir up more controversial on the Moonbird proof thing.
I think you guys both have great points.
My personal perspective as an outsider from that ecosystem is that like proof, uh, and,
and both Moonbird speaking at a high floor price and starting with the, with the release
of the fanny pack and then the CCO and then the community sentiment being quite low, but
then, um, having super high expectations on the next announcement that I feel like they
kind of hyped it up a little bit.
Plus the macro conditions of the whole space being bearish at the moment, very low volume,
uh, no new money in flux.
So basically it's just people dumping a collection for another one.
I think there, there was too many macro conditions and also internal conditions not favoring them
on this announcement.
And yes, I do agree.
It could be packaged a little bit better and then it could have a better impact.
But overall, like, do I agree objectively, it was a good move to partner with Spotify on
experimenting the token gated playlist.
Hell yes.
Could it be delivered better?
Also, yes.
So that's where I stand with the Moonbird thing, but I do hope the team will succeed because
I think they have a strong team and very competent people and very cool people on the community.
So let's see.
Only time can tell on this one.
Yeah, we can.
Yeah.
I mean, we'll see what happens with it.
And, uh, definitely a, um, yeah, definitely a, an interesting one to follow with how people
are, are perceiving it.
And, um, to your point on the PsyOp coin, I think everyone's having fun and games with
it right now and calling it quote unquote fun.
I have an inclination.
I, I will be, I hate saying it.
I will be surprised if this doesn't end very poorly.
It's not financial advice.
One way or another, do what makes you happy and what you think you should do.
Even the last time I popped in the war room, I'm like, am I crazy?
Should I be buying this PsyOp thing?
But honestly, it's like, it's stupid.
It's like, I feel like there was a meme coin.
It wasn't doing well.
It was somebody I've seen people who like jump into a community, get a little bit of recognition
and then try to turn that into a personal brand.
And I feel like we have that with like the Pepe thing with Ben, it seems like.
And then he launched Ben coin because he's like, Hey, this is easy.
Did not do well.
And then BitBoy came along.
It did do well after that.
And it's like, instead of just cutting running and being like, well, that was nice.
He's trying to double down and doing things that I think are extremely questionable from
a regulatory perspective.
You're taking a bunch of money from non-incredited investors in the front end.
Like there's a lot of things.
Like my guess is that guy is on a flight away from the United States at this point.
But like, I don't, I, I'm not like, I have no, I'm not saying this will happen, but it
would not surprise me if this not only ends spectacularly in a bad way, but like also if
there is potential legal or regulatory action that gets taken with sort of thing, because
I just think like the fuck around and find out, like just minting and doing things is kind
of over.
We're starting to see people getting prosecuted.
We're starting to see, uh, uh, government and others and class action lawsuits and people
coming after people.
It's like, I think we're probably getting to the point where this is, we're running into
the 11th hour of the shenanigans that are happening like this.
And I, that's where I think like, I would be very judicious about how we play.
Who knows?
Maybe I'll play the shit calling streets that I don't know, but I just, I'd be very judicious
about it.
It's something that I think is questionable.
Totally.
I do not think it'll happen.
I heard someone suggest the move here to avoid all criminal charges or lawsuits, uh, and make
the coin actually moon would be drop the token, but simultaneously refund all the, all the ETH
that was sent in.
I don't think that is the intent behind this, but, um, that, that could be a interesting
outcome.
Should we see a, a refund that, that again, I know I think someone just, you know, grasping
at straws here, but, uh, I don't know if we've ever seen a presale that, that, uh, gets
refund.
Actually we have, we saw just recently the shield token got, uh, got refunded and then they
dropped a subsequent token, which, which ran up a little bit.
So precedent has been set here.
Any chances you think we see a, a refund of 6.9 million ETH?
I doubt it.
I would also say, I'm not sure how that works still from a tax and regulatory perspective.
Not 6.9 million ETH.
Let me correct myself.
6.9 million US dollars equivalent of ETH.
Yes.
But like, I'm not sure how that works either.
It's like the same idea that it's like, you know, we talk about DJ and we've done sponsorships
and my tax guy gets crazy when he's like, I'm sorry, you accept USDC.
He's like, because like when money comes into your wallet, if you're doing things on the
level that registers as a capital gain, no matter what, or ordinary income, depending
on how it comes in.
So it's like, if you take in 6.9 million that people pay you into your wallet, and then
you ultimately give away that 6.9 million, I still think as far as I know at the moment,
that would count as you made 6.9 million dollars in your wallet.
And then you spent 6.9 million dollars in some way, shape, or form.
Like, I'm not sure how that works.
Not if it's a refund.
Yeah.
If it's a refund, I think you, I mean, I guess I don't know in crypto world, but yeah, if
it was like you did a, I don't know, you had a thousand dollar sale at your retail store
and it got returned, you know, no, no taxes.
There's no income there.
It's just a refund.
Just a return.
Yeah.
But what I'm saying is I don't know how that works in the crypto world because the way
it's read, as far as I know, is not like that, but I don't know.
Again, maybe that works, I guess.
I don't know.
But I would, something about the way the guy, here's the, here's the real question
this morning that we must, we can't go any further until we get it asked or answered.
What is for breakfast?
There's been speculation of chicken.
There's been steak tartare in the chat.
What is Steve eating for breakfast this morning is, is the question we must know before we go
to another hand.
Do we hear, can you hear me eating or is it like a, just a speculation?
Uh, we heard some, like we get the diner aesthetics every once in a while where it sounds like
you're clinking some silver on a plate.
Is that, was that correct or no?
No, it is a, uh, sort of, um, a, uh, so I have some leftover food from a local Indian
restaurant.
And this particular one is a sort of a corn hot and sour soup of some sort that I added
a little extra Sriracha into to give it some extra kick.
So just starting off this morning with a little, it's all coming to get, it's all making sense
now.
It's, it's spicy, Steve, this one bold strategy going with the Indian and spicing up with Sriracha
for breakfast.
This guy's living.
The problem is, is that this particular soup, Mrs. NFT Bark got, she is not a fan of spice
like I am.
I am fine with lighting my mouth all the way on fire.
I love it.
Um, and so when we get Indian food, I don't put yogurt on it.
I just smash through it.
And it's funny, the Indian food place, this is how you know they're legit.
So they have spice options you can choose.
It's spicy, medium, mild, and then they have the lowest one, which is called American mild.
Basically saying like, if you get mild, you're still getting spice from us.
If you get American mild, we get it.
You don't want flavor.
So I believe that this soup is American mild.
And I had a hot and sour soup that was just mild, which is like perfect, like for a soup,
you know, cause you don't want a soup being too spicy, but their actual food is so spicy.
I did have the old chicken tikka masala the other day for breakfast.
Which was awesome.
Um, so yeah, I don't know, but that's, uh, I love Indian food, but I just came to the realization.
I have some PTSD.
I have not touched Indian food since, uh, uh, the last day in Berlin, last night in Berlin,
last, last summer in the, uh, the following flight back.
Um, I've not touched Indian food since I won't go any further with the details than that for
this morning's coffee show.
But, uh, yeah, I didn't, didn't realize it's definitely some PTSD that I've shied away
from, uh, the, the, the chicken, Josh, Rogan, Josh, Rogan, Josh, and everything else, uh,
related.
Yeah.
I, um, I'm going to have a, a, uh, an orange here to, to give myself like a little bit of
a dessert-y feel after this, get something sweet in my system.
But in the meantime, before we go to Jack and Von Fronten, let's do Mintify Daily Sponsored
Update because we're at 850, and then we will rotate over into Jack, then Von Fronten.
You know, as always, DM me if you have a hard stop on anything following that to make sure
if we need to flip the order there, but looking forward to getting overall perspectives, uh,
there.
I, uh, I will hand it over to Jake, GM.
Good morning.
Good morning.
How's everything going?
It's going well.
It's going well.
Just had some delicious Indian food.
Yeah, I don't know how you do that.
I mean, don't get me wrong.
I love spicy food.
I really, really do.
But first thing in the morning, I can't, I can't do that.
That would, that would drive me nuts all day.
But, uh, you know, for you, that's amazing.
And I'm very happy that you can do that because I would very, I would love to be able to do
that personally.
Um, let's get into this, but first I just wanted to, uh, I just wanted to say something
really quickly on the whole, uh, whole presale bin thing.
Um, I was in, I was listening into, you know, listening to him talk in spaces last night.
I cannot say that I, I left that space as inspired to buy in.
Um, I also will say that, that I, I, you know, I was feeling a little bit FOMO.
You can't not look at that, you know, 6 million presale raised and not feel so FOMO, but I cannot
allow myself to buy into that.
I would feel too, too, too much shame to get into that.
You know what I mean?
Like there's, there, there's a, as I, as I was talking about, you know, um, last week
or whatnot, uh, you know, risk management in terms of what is worth, you know, spending
the money on.
And like, you know, you want to be in things for risk management, uh, to, to actually manage
risk, you know, something's a bigger risk to not hold.
In this case, maybe I am making the mistake of, of not having some exposure in case it does
well, but I would feel too much personal embarrassment and shame for having any of my wallets tied
to that because it, it is just so blatantly, um, uh, ridiculous, honestly, the whole thing
that's going on.
And, you know, maybe, maybe it does well.
I'm really hesitant to say that it will.
I'm not confident that it will either.
Um, but maybe it does, you know, crazier things have happened in this space.
Um, so if anybody's holding it, good luck.
Genuinely, I do mean that.
Um, it, I, I'm not confident that it will, but good luck to everybody.
And anything, anything that feels scammy on paper, right?
It's like, it's like anytime I'm looking at something and I'm like, if like, look, explaining
NFTs to my friends might be weird, but like, I clearly have the ability to do it.
Right.
That's literally what I'm writing a book about, but like explaining NFTs to your friends is
one thing and kind of explaining the technology and the club aspect and different things and
making analogies and Roblox and Minecraft.
If I explained to my friends what's happening here, it becomes very obvious.
It's like, it's take yourself out of it and tell yourself the story of this token and
just be like, it's a scam.
It feels like a scam.
I'm not saying it's a hundred percent a scam, but you would say that if you're listening,
you're like, this sure sounds like one.
And it's like, yes, maybe there's a short term opportunity to pump.
Maybe you'll get out like after the pre-seal, maybe there'll be a little bump.
Maybe there'll be a bump for a week.
I don't even know, two weeks.
I just feel like at some point, there's no way this has a chance to be long-term successful,
or at least it feels that way.
And look, again, everybody, best of luck to you.
Godspeed.
I'm not like fighting anybody who wants to give it a go, but I'm with you, Jake.
I just feel like it's way too risky for me at this point to really be playing in those
streets.
So anyway, I'll kick it back to you.
But you and I think have a very similar investment strategy, even down to like the, when it's too
much of a material risk not to hold something, or you weigh it out, I feel very similar to
you, I think, in how we look at things.
And I had the same exact reaction.
I'm like, nothing about this feels like something I should be doing.
And look, I've lost money because of that.
I've lost money in some good stuff, some stuff that's pumped and ultimately fell.
And whether I was right or not in the long run doesn't matter.
It's just like I made those decisions based on where my gut and ethos lie.
And I think you put it perfectly when you said, I just would be way too embarrassed to have
any of my wallets tied to this thing.
So I appreciate that perspective.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
And you know, I was, you know how long this pre-sale has been open.
It's been open for, what, a few days now.
So I've had ample time to decide to get in or not get in.
I decided pretty early on that I was not going to allow myself to get in, no matter how much
I felt the need to send in like the bare minimum.
It's just not something that I want to even remember myself doing.
But yeah, definitely best of luck to everybody that is participating in that.
But yeah, we can get into this market update for today.
The volume isn't fantastic, but some less red than the past few weeks.
So let's check this out.
The volumes, Ethereum for the weekend, 17.6 million, down 6.5% from last weekend.
Solana just under 2 million, down just almost 14% from last weekend.
And Matic 1.85, down about 21%.
The highest sale, 125 ETH for other side, number 8.
The seller actually took, let me see, they took a 117 ETH loss on this one.
They bought it about a year ago for like 225 ETH or so.
So it's a little bit unfortunate, but it's a nice little plot.
The top trending by volume, Mutant Apes trying to get back above that 10 ETH, 9.88 ETH for price, down 1%.
Bored Apes, 46.8, up 1%.
And Pudgy Penguins, 4.71 ETH for price, up 8%.
The top trending by sales, introducing World App, 0.018, up 88%.
I mentioned this one in a market update last week.
Not the actual NFT collection, didn't know they were dropping this.
But WorldCoin, the app behind this is a project of Sam Altman, you know, a co-founder of OpenAI.
They're doing some kind of human authentication and whatnot stuff.
I believe this NFT is just a, you know, a collectible, a commemorative NFT though.
Number two is Forest No, 0.197, up 42%.
Really, really low supply.
I believe it's only 300 or so of that.
And then Sad Bros, 0.04, up 12%.
The biggest winners, The Apes, 1.49 ETH for price, up 113%.
M'lady MFers, 0.04, up 95%.
And SSR Wives, 0.057, up 90%.
Some interesting news coming out over the weekend.
Line Next, the parent company of Line Next actually had that partnership with Izuki Chiro Labs recently.
But Line Next revealed that they have five gamer-first Web3 games releasing this year on its GameDose platform.
I think they have an upcoming membership mint for their platform.
Ubisoft revealed that it has an upcoming Assassin's Creed Smart Collectible NFT paired with a customizable 3D printed physical product.
D-Gods, in partnership with Ordinal Diamonds, is hosting art exhibitions and live auctions at Bitcoin Miami on May 18th.
MemeLand Season 1 Raids is now live with 40,000 USDC in rewards.
Proof offers physical pots created by Snowfro for Bookend's study holders.
Valhalla launched its Battle Pass loyalty system.
Ethereum devs released patch notes for Prism and Tiku clients to address the finality issues that Ethereum network has been having.
Bitcoin devs debated how to tackle Ordinal BRC-20 network activity.
There's a big tear between the devs there.
Some really want to censor it.
Some believe that they shouldn't.
Right now, no changes will be made.
And Robinhood is offering 24.5 trading for certain stocks in June.
I think that would be really interesting to see if gradually traditional market becomes a little bit more, you know, open with their trading hours for stocks.
I think that could have some pretty significant implications, you know, on how people trade.
Right now we see, you know, volume drop off, not even for NFTs, you know, over the weekend, but for the greater crypto market a lot over the weekend.
And order books get really thin.
A lot of traders don't trade or, you know, a lot of professional and big traders do not trade over the weekends.
And they trade more with, you know, when traditional markets open or CME.
So it would be really interesting to see if traditional market becomes a 24-7 market as well.
And the market stats, global crypto market cap, 1142.69 billion.
Bitcoin dominance, 46.5%.
Open interest, back over 8 billion, 8.06.
And fear and greed at an even 50.
With Bitcoin and Ethereum over the weekend reclaiming their level, I was talking, I do weekly crypto recaps in the Mintify Discord.
And I was just mentioning that because Bitcoin did not invalidate the range before the week actually closed during the actual trading week, there is a decent chance that it does reclaim, you know, the range.
Being that it didn't actually break down, it closed right above, I believe, 27,000.
My pivot is 27,000 on daily closures during the trading week.
And, I mean, it's really trying to grind back up.
So it will be interesting to see if this is a little fake out.
A little bit too early, I think.
By tomorrow, we'll have a clear answer on that, though.
But, yeah, Bitcoin, 27,400, up almost 2%.
Ethereum, 18,25, up 1% even.
And the S&P, right around 4153, up 0.3% or so.
That's all.
Thank you very much.
Jacob, I'm curious.
What's your take on ordinals as a whole?
I'm curious because I don't know that we've had this discussion.
And we've been talking about ordinals a lot here.
I see people, like, over the weekend talking about them flipping ETH NFTs.
And I'm kind of curious, Jake, what you think about ordinals and that market as a whole.
Because I don't know.
Like, I feel like ordinals is something that I have very little exposure to and haven't played around.
And I feel like I'm probably, as a tech person, probably making a mistake here.
What's your take?
Um, I think it's, I mean, the NFTs in general and a lot of the stuff going on is just so early.
We can't even say whether NFTs of today are going to be around as they are in, you know, even one year from now.
Ordinals, I think it's awesome to see things like this happening on Bitcoin.
I think it's very likely that it's going to keep evolving.
I mean, we saw ordinals come out and then, well, like four months later, now we have BRC20 tokens and there's, well, like Bitcoin stamps.
People are going to keep on, you know, optimizing and, you know, making it more efficient.
So, yes, I do think it's very likely that, you know, quote NFTs on Bitcoin does last and will have, you know, some lasting impact over time.
Um, and I, I think it's probably good for the network.
I mean, you know, and what is it in like 2140 or so way beyond any of our lifetimes, very likely, um, you know, the last Bitcoin is going to be minted.
So, you know, validators are going to have to sustain off of just transaction, uh, transaction fees.
This, this definitely would help that.
I, I think, I think we're, you know, speaking over a hundred years too early is a little bit soon to, uh, to talk on it in depth.
But, um, I, I definitely think there's a place for this kind of network activity on Bitcoin, how it's actually handled and whether it's, you know, pricing out real transactions, you know, people actually wanting to transact on Bitcoin that, that aren't, you know, doing NFTs and minting things.
Yeah, that could be a problem. Um, but I don't think it's, it's going anywhere totally.
Sure. Maybe the hype will die down. Um, and these things won't be going for, you know, so much money, but I think there's, the chances are that it'll, it'll last in some way or another and maybe even get bigger.
But we'll, we'll really have to see.
Yeah. I personally.
Speaking of ordinals.
Go ahead.
Sorry.
Okay. Um, yeah, I personally don't hold any BRC20 tokens or anything. I just have, what, three ordinals that I minted those, you know, those first, like, that first month or so when ordinals first came out.
I think I had like two under 50K and one under 100K and that's all. I didn't, I didn't do anything other than that.
No, thank you for a great update. I was just gonna say, speaking of ordinals, Steve, I feel like we should go to Jack next. Not only get his ordinals take, but the, I don't know. Did you see this one of one D God got hacked or stolen over the weekend and then sold for 99 ETH?
I believe someone in the community bought it and offered to hold it for the, uh, the original owner. Uh, but 99 ETH for a one of one D God, uh, getting up there. And this was a, you know, a stolen sale. So, uh, typically that's lower than what the, you know, a non, uh, compromised asset would go for any, any, uh, any takes on that or just ordinals at the higher level, Jack?
Yeah. So, uh, I, I really, I really felt for, for the one-on-one steal, um, sorry, not the one-on-one steal, but the most rare NFT in the collection, I believe, or definitely one of the most coveted at least.
Um, we've seen, uh, like a slew of sales, like getting very Azuki like it, Azuki like it in terms of, um, just, just continuously plus 50 plus 40 ETH sales, uh, around these more rare traits at this point for D Gods, which, which is a huge positive when you look at even the floor, it's those rare sales that stop really showing how, how this, this whole space and how, how that specific NFT project, uh, getting into the zeitgeist.
Yes. I think, um, the ordinals generally, I think what was really interesting is, is Danny, the, the founder of, uh, on chain monkey actually flagged that there is a, um, I forget what channel it is. It's like the, the Bitcoin trading. Uh, it's, it's one of the early, early, uh, sort of channels, uh, comms channels around that. Um, and somehow we have found that back in 2010, um, there was a JPEG that was sold.
through Bitcoin, um, for 500 Bitcoin, um, for 500 Bitcoin. It's one of the earliest recorded sales, at least on, uh, in terms of the blockchain tech with JPEGs. Um, and it seems that Satoshi themselves actually sort of brokered the deal.
So when you talk about ordinals and the idea that, you know, there's the, the traditional Bitcoin maxis don't feel like it is a part of their culture or really goes with like how Bitcoin has been set up and why it's been built.
The idea that Satoshi themselves actually, you know, organized one of the first sales of a JPEG sort of spits in the face of that. So that, that was really interesting to me. I do think when you talk about luxury brands, uh, and like those really like small collections being on Bitcoin, um, it does seem to be like the place to be right now.
And we're just seeing more and more people go over that, you know, it went from a hundred thousand to like close to 4 million, I believe at this point. Um, it's, it's crazy. Um, I, I think that my only other thoughts were, I really loved the, the talk of, you know, the proof, uh, and the Spotify announcements.
I loved hearing the two sides of the coin, um, you know, fraud or critique. I fall somewhere more to your side cap where I, I seen true critique on the timeline. Um, it, it was around comms mainly, um, and just how this thing was announced. Um, but I think the real alpha is, you know, join spaces to get, get those two sides of the coin.
And I mean, that as founders as well, where I did see, I'm not going to call out anyone specifically, but I did see members of the team really pushing back on, you know, how, when, when people were coming for Moonbirds, which, which is by all rights, they should be doing, but, um, definitely seem to just be a sentiment around.
This was really a good thing. I don't believe the critique is, you know, reasonable in any sense. If this was a Zuki as, as in the Red Bull announcement, for example, um,
they, they, they didn't receive the same level of food. I, I thought they did back at the time. I definitely gave them food around the fact that, you know, how is Red Bull going to feel when they realize this partnership that they've generated is with a founder who is, you know, in, in sort of the negative history books for Ruggin and, you know, there's pretending to be female, females. Like there's, there's all this stuff around it. So I definitely gave them food.
And I think Moonbirds didn't get that same level of food, um, from, from us, but they did get a lot of holder food.
And there was a lot of food to Steve's point as well, where, you know, no critique, just people absolutely bagging the project.
So, um, for me, the long and short of it really is just get into spaces.
Like if you want to actually get a real idea of where the line is drawn between critique and food, hop into this space, hop into other spaces and see what the actual people who are in it day in, day out, who've been creating content around, you know, what the NFT ecosystem is doing for over a year now and see where they fall on it.
And the fact that you two are so split and even am split, like I'm not right with you, Cap.
I'm not right with Steve either.
I just, I think it just shows that there's so much nuance to, you know, we're saying they could have done better with comms, but I do think they would have got food regardless.
But I still think there was lessons to be learned and I hate the idea of any team just feeling like, well, you know what, we're going to get footed regardless right now.
We're going to put the blinders on and we're just not going to be susceptible to the pieces that are true critique.
Um, but I also get why the team are just, you know, exhausted from this.
I feel a little, little exhausted as a holder.
I'm not going to lie.
Like it, it's really, you know, harshing my balls in, in, in terms of how I feel about everything going on at the moment.
And I'm done talking and Jack on that, like two things to say, I think, like I said, there's, there's a difference between sort of what you're saying, what Cap's saying in those discussions and a lot of what I'm seeing.
And I think to your point, it's the, you know, just like the proliferation of like every time something happens, the extremity of it.
And the market has decided that certain, you know, like, like Azuki is a good one.
That is an example that Azuki gets a pass.
Now people can say like, Hey, they've earned it or whatever.
But like, you look at some of the things that have happened, some things that not only a lot of NFT projects wouldn't come back from, but you know, even some things were like the same announcement from like a, you know, proof as an example and understand it.
But like from a proof is going to get that pushback.
And I think it's at the point where it's like, it's, it's, it's almost like the reason I say I bring it the way I bring it is I think we've hit this nitpicky point with like proof.
And not just proof, but some of the other ones as well, but like, we've hit this nitpicky point where people are just like, like, if it doesn't make something go to 38th immediately, then there's a problem.
Look, I mean, like kept saying, like, I don't understand the direction.
I don't understand the revenue generation.
I don't necessarily agree with what they're doing here.
Like all of those things.
I'm like, great.
You know what?
Actually, I think all of those are fair questions to ask the team.
And I think the team would say that.
And we've talked on this show about that particular team being very open to criticism, right?
Like they're like generally very receptive, but to your point, it gets a little exhausting.
I think for them and others at some point, like every team in this space, it's like, you
know, like listen to like, it's funny because, you know, both from a DM and in some of the
replies perspective, a lot of the people who are like, dude, I agree for people who work
on teams who are sitting here saying like, what are we supposed to do when we still have
this market of people who, you know, by all accounts, if you got in here in 2022 or
even like 2021, a lot of holders are going to be underwater based on what they invested
And when that happens, a lot of times people simply will not have a rational conversation
about things.
And I, what I would push or kind of ask you, Jack is like, you know, my, my background is
in comms, like 15 years of comms.
Like, can you, and there's some things you would nitpick here and there that you could
be like, oh, like maybe this could have been better, but I'd be curious, like, would
you rather they not announce it?
Would you rather they announce it differently?
Would you, like, what, what about the, like, because I feel like I'm trying to wrap my
head around the comms critique as a comms person.
And like, I look at the announcement, it's fine.
Like maybe you would have removed like the first line or something where it was excited.
Okay, fine.
You think it's overexciting?
Get it.
For them, like, it might be like, hey, it's cool.
We're talking to a web two brand or a traditional, you know, streaming platform.
But like, what Jack would you have, because I've talked about before what I'd like to see differently.
What would you have wanted to see differently with the comms around this specifically?
So it's such a tough question, Steve, and I get why you're asking it.
I think, you know, we, we, we talked about it on Friday and I've seen, you know, Outer
do a good job, like explaining this.
I've seen Cap do a good job of like breaking this down.
And I have seen a few just, just, you know, people like actually in the comments where
this, like, when the, let's use the comparison with Red Bull and Azuki.
So the idea was with Spotify, it's okay.
What is this partnership?
Like, how does it work?
Because this is, you know, the, the, the idea that they talked about a partnership with Spotify,
but then it very quickly goes into the fact that this is like a channel within Spotify.
It's only right now for Android.
Like, I'm not sure how many Android users we've got in the crowd right now, but again,
that's, you know, a subset of a subset.
With the Red Bull partnership and trying to point to that, the idea of that and like
how, how much attention that gets.
I think what I would have liked to see is them just talk a little bit around what, what
that partnership in the real term does for them, what they believe it does for them in
terms of it gets more web two eyes on the project.
It is just a partnership in terms of we're just trying some new stuff.
I think they could have highlighted the fact that it didn't take the team as much time
because I was in that spaces and Kevin didn't really do a great job of, um, when he first
talked about it, he talked about the fact that this took four months to get across the
line.
Um, and they walk that back a little bit and the commentary does too, but I think when
it all boils down to it, a, you've got, you know, you've got this space and you've got
Moonbirds who minted at way higher price.
And it was the right price because the market suggested it was, but way higher of a price
than some of these other projects, including a Zuki, which means you just don't have the
holders that they do who were still like a 10 X or a five X, uh, off of mint, even when
they were down to 80 for our Moonbirds were up 15.
So, so that that's really difficult.
And that's where the foot comes in and you can't avoid that.
Yeah.
But that second part, and the reason why I cut you off here is like, I think your first
part, that's great.
That is a type of actionable discussion I love having, right?
Like kind of the, some of the critiques Cap had about like revenue and where that's going,
what you're saying there.
I think that that's great.
What I don't like, but, but now, now we're going down the path of somebody bought an asset
for more money than it's worth now.
And therefore they are upset.
And now you don't have that same luxury.
Like I get that.
But like, and again, I'm not, I am empathetic to people who are down money.
I get it.
I'm down money on a ton of bags.
It's not like I'm like sitting here, like killing it or crushing it.
Right.
I mean, like most of my assets, I mean, I bought, and again, I love like Z even house of first.
And I think what they do, they put on the best events.
I have like 21 Royal society of player cards.
I paid half an Ethan gas to get my chips.
When those things came out, when it was like 3,500 bucks, I paid probably upwards of half
of needs plus for some of the sets because, you know, they, they mentioned having like
sets and hands and things were going to matter.
So I completed, I think a full set of clubs.
I tax loss harvested a lot of those last year and they're literally worth like $12 now.
And it's not me trying to fund them or say it in that way, but it's like, it's not like
I go out of my way to be like, Oh, like what, what do you hear me?
When I talk about house of first, I talk about the amazing events they put on.
I talk about how, look, if you get in now, congratulations for you, it's worth it to
get a, to spend, you know, uh, $11 and get into the best events, some of the best events
and NFTs.
So like, I guess like to me, my mentality is like, I take accountability for the purchases
I made last summer and two summers ago.
I take accountability for the, for the money I spent.
And if somebody made a decision, look, when somebody said, if somebody truly says I bought
for the commercial rights.
Okay.
I get that.
And they're like, you know what?
Like they took that away.
If there was somebody who was going to make significant amount of money besides Lackos
on that, who's still on the project and on the council, then great.
I'm open to that conversation, but like, I'm getting like, just, just to be, just to
continue to straw me on the other side here.
I do think this is, it's not just Lackos in the, the ultra rares and grails with that
CCO decision.
It does have an impact across the entire collection.
As we're seeing, just as we were talking, like the, the one-on-one D God sale for 99
ETH, you know, the, the Zuki grails that sell for the two, 300 ETH, the, the, the
board apes that sell for two, I believe my investment thesis, when you see rares and
one-on-one selling for the hundreds of ETHs, it does add demand to the floor level as well.
Yeah.
It's just, I can't explain it, but it, but it absolutely has an impact on more than just
the rares in the collection.
Well, no, this is a great discussion too, because I agree with you because I think I
made the comment where I talked about something about floor birds and I think it was Bunch
who said all floors are, birds are floor birds.
No, I think it was Bunch who said that.
And I had the, I kind of had this epiphany where I'm like, they've turned moon birds into
a 10,000 collection fungible token.
While it is non-fungible in the sense that it's unique in that it, you know, each one's an
individual unique address that it points to, right?
There's the pointer and there's the JPEG.
And the JPEGs are now irrelevant to it because in theory, any, like if somebody were to use
my moon bird as their, you know, business logo, I cannot stop them.
It is CC zero or whatever, whatever the, you know, use cases may be like somebody wants
to use in a cartoon, whatever.
I, so that to me, I, I agree with you on the public domain point there.
Um, but like my main point is like, I just am like at the point where it's like, you took
a speculative investment, you paid a lot of money for something.
I understand what you're saying about the floor prices, the whole, but I don't think
that CC zero significantly affected.
Like I, like, it's not like there are people who are clamoring and look, I argued why CC
zero was bad at the time and you missed it, but I also don't think people were clamoring
to use these for IP rights all over the place or businesses were clamoring to use them.
And my main point here just kind of stands at like, at some point we were gonna, I don't
know when this happens in this space.
Probably never because people always blame others for their money and whatever, and their
decisions.
At some point we probably need to have a come to Jesus where we say, look, like you paid
for something.
You made the decision to do it in like, even people like sending, like people are going
to be mad at this, at this Ben guy for sending him, you know, almost $7 million.
And then it's going to end up drooling poorly.
And they're going to be like, Ben's a scammer.
It's like, the funniest thing I saw was the people who are the, being the hardest, the
most vocal about this guy's a scammer.
I can't believe, can't believe people would send this guy $6.9 million.
The same people that are holding their blue chip NFT bags down 95% from the all time high.
It's, uh, it's, it's funny.
Like the, uh, what's the cast cast stones?
What's the, uh, what's the parable?
Yeah.
Don't throw stones when you live in a glass house.
And it's, it's, it's, it's just that I guess that is the part where I'm not saying people
shouldn't be critical.
I'm not saying we shouldn't have tough conversations.
What I am saying is like, at some point, if you're just getting mad over every little thing
and saying like the team's fault, the team's fault, there is a sliver of accountability
you need to have for the purchase you made in a wallet you control.
You know, it just, at some point that's a problem.
And that's, that's where I get kind of like, you know, I know, and again, I know Jack, you're
not saying this, but when you're saying this to people, when you mentioned like, well, there's
people who bought higher and now they're down money.
It's like, okay, like who made those purges?
I do think there is, I will agree.
I think there is, is also a, uh, psychological impact with the higher mint price.
I, I, from my perspective, both moon birds and clone X have, have received more critique
than any of the other projects in the space.
I think in my head, those two stand out.
And I don't think it's a coincidence that both had the higher mint prices, you know, not
just to 2.5 ETH or, or, or greater, but also when, when ETH was cranking, those were two
very expensive mints.
And even if people don't want to admit it, I think it absolutely has, has weighed into
just the, the overall community sentiment as you know, through this bear.
Yeah.
Sorry, Steve.
I just, uh, whilst, um, whilst we've been speaking about this, I had a specific sort of, uh,
narrative that I was, I was trying to paint out with, with this high mint, uh, and that
is that not only was it a high mint, uh, and that, uh, what caps just pointed out perfectly
is, you know, there's, there's a psychological impact to that.
And Steve, you've pointed out perfectly, but it was still, you know, uh, a purchase and
price, like it was the price we purchased for, and you could have sold up for 10 to like
15 X on that investment early days.
If you mint it, you could have sold your oddity for more than you mint it.
If you would have timed the top, you know, it's like, you know, it's like,
but very few are going to take that own, you know, that own accountability.
Exactly.
And you've, and that's a two point, that's a two edged sword as well, Kat, because you've
also watched it, held it because of your trust in the team.
So it gives you an extra sense of, well, actually, okay.
Yeah, I'm into that, this, but I held it through a hundred thousand dollars guys.
So, you know, where's my return on my support and my faith and conviction into you.
But there's also, there's also a nuance there again.
I mean, keep putting it off, but like, I do think like there's a nuance there when you're
talking about, like you held it because you trust in the team and it's like, okay, but
you also probably held it because you thought the number would keep going up.
Right.
For the people who are upset, like not just because it's like, you know, not because it's
like, I love and believe in Kevin Rose and I'm happy to be here.
Cause the truth is I have a lot of assets that are down since the market started.
And, uh, and I'm not upset about, I'm not upset about holding my doodle.
I'm not upset about trading for my moonbird at 30 because I, again, I'm, I know I'm a
specific case.
I used money that I didn't, you know, that I was okay.
Like I, I never over-invest myself.
So I think there's probably some of that going on with people.
Like I don't invest the largest part of my net worth in JPEGs.
Right.
Like I still put money towards retirement.
I still put money towards savings, like all those things.
Number one, and I, and I'm very careful about, cause when we say don't put money and you
can't lose, we're serious.
Right.
So I think number one, I do that.
But number two, I decided that the team or product is something that I want to be a part
And therefore, like, it's not about what the market decides the values.
Now, again, I am going to be critical when you can makes an executional error that makes
the floor go down.
That also is an executional error or done poorly.
I'm going to be critical when moonbirds do it.
I'm going to be critical when it's like, you name it.
I will still be critical of those things when the team should be critiqued, but like,
I'm not sort of blaming the team for my investment.
And to your point, like, like people have held moonbirds since the beginning.
If you bought for 2.5, you could have sold a 30 or 40 of money was your end game, but
you thought it could keep going higher people.
I had arguments on this stage with people who said that moonbirds were going to flip
apes by the end of the year.
When they meant there were people who said that very seriously, people were willing to bet
me on it.
So it's like people held it because they thought this was going to be the next sport
apes.
It did not turn out to be, or a lot of them did, you know, same with oddities.
People got oddities.
And like Cap said, you could have sold it for three, four eight, but instead people held
because they saw an opportunity.
And I have fallen victim to this too.
But I guess the difference is I'm not going to go and blame someone else because I held
my mutant when it was a hundred thousand dollars and I could have gotten rid of it.
And instead it's worth like $15,000 now.
Like I don't blame other people for that decision.
And it's not me trying to like defend the team or say that they're not wrong or anything
like that.
It's just, I feel like there is just this mentality where, you know, when, when it gets
to the thing that you said there, and I know this isn't the point you were making overarching,
but it happens where people are like, well, you know, a lot of people paid a lot more money
for what they have than what it is now.
It's like, well, okay, well, there's your answer.
That's what we're talking about here.
So yeah, this, this is my point, Steve.
So like, like to summarize, you've got the narrative, you've got the idea that, you know,
when, when they announced Spotify and the partnership that, that there was some dot connecting that
these holders had to do.
And when you had people pay in at that mint price, and I do think alongside the high mint
price, you did get people buy into Moonbirds who this was their biggest conviction buy because
it was a mint.
Like if they got that raffle, there's a number of people, I believe who paid 2.5 ETH where
they have never paid 2.5 ETH before.
And really what happened with this like psychological term with Moonbirds, and it even eats into the
proof ecosystem because that thing ran up to like a couple hundred thousand like that,
that was at one point higher than an ape.
Like there was a moment and that's when apes were fucking ripping as well.
And I think it was 150 ETH is what it nailed to.
Yeah, like crazy.
And what I think has happened is, A, you've got nobody up, nobody at all up on that side
of things.
When you do have people up, if you look at Azuki with their spirits and stuff, they've seen,
they still have like so many exes ahead.
Whilst for Moonbirds, it was always still proof.
It like had that other ecosystem to it.
And basically where we've got to is this point that you have none of those like resolute
holders, the people who are really into it because they pulled a one-on-one and they're
just so connected to it.
And they still could sell it for 30, 40 for what they minted it for.
You've got, because CC0 got left.
You've also got those people who have bought where they've never bought before.
And you've got just like this really random collective group of human beings in the Moonbirds
community that you didn't get with the DJ and Azuki group.
You didn't get with the mutants and the apes.
And they just aren't connecting dots or prepared to hold through these cycles the same way that
those other communities did.
And with that, and with how down they are, you've got to understand that if it's food
or not, you've got just a community who just need to be spoon-fed exactly what the value
add to this thing is.
More comments and DMs that the conversation is just getting tiresome.
No offense, Jack or Steve.
I just, tomorrow, I promise we'll have a proofless Tuesday.
Tuesday will be no proof day.
We won't talk about anything proof related tomorrow.
So if Vaughn Fronten, Outer, CryptoJesus, Loop, if anyone wants to get in their comments
regarding proof, feel free to do so.
But I will not comment whatsoever on proof on either side of the conversation the rest
of the morning.
And we'll have a proofless Tuesdays from now on.
I appreciate everyone's patience that's not interested in the topic.
Clearly, there is a lot of passion on both sides of this conversation.
And one that I'm sure won't go away completely.
But I do respect that it's not everyone's cup of tea.
And a few other things, certainly, to still cover today before we hit time.
But go ahead, Steve.
No, I was going to say, that's why I was kind of jumping out.
I was going to say, I'm trying to take it less in the direction of proof.
And more, I think it's a bigger conversation about the space, which is, what are some of
these projects supposed to do when holders...
And that's why I kept going back to, like, we're a sighted player and other things.
It's like, I'm not sure what these projects or founders are supposed to do.
Because I feel like if you are just trying to play into your holders who are hoping to
get out at a higher exit point, again, like, not specific to proof, in general, well, then
you're probably...
Yuga has not seemingly executed things with a purpose of pumping floor price.
They've just executed the shit that seems on brand with them.
And they continue to do it, right?
They continue to just focus on their holders who are, like, excited to be there.
And not necessarily the ones who are like, oh, my God, my ape's dumping in floor price.
What do I need to do to change that?
So just, to me, it's like a larger conversation about, like, where we are as a space.
And at some point, and that's why I know, I promise, I've tried to pull us out of this
hole a couple of times here.
People talk about where we are as a space.
Hizzy wins the chat this morning, talking about people were saying people were crazy for
buying ordinals for multiple Bitcoin on a spreadsheet.
Meanwhile, the space just collectively sent someone named Ben.Eth $6.9 million.
But yet, those that are buying ordinals are the crazy ones.
Yeah, it's just, it's a weird, it's just a weird place to be.
And I just, I don't know.
Like, so that's my, and that's why even, like, in the tweet I put, there was, like, an
example in there.
But it's, like, it's not like I want to have an entire conversation around specific
proof.
It's just more just, like, in general, this is a weird time and space we're living in.
But let's go down to Outer, who's on a pitch count.
I know she has, like, three minutes.
And then we'll go to Von Frunton.
Hey, thanks.
It was funny, we turned on spaces for, like, a minute while Divide and I were eating
breakfast, literally to hearing you and Jack talk.
And we're like, what are they talking about?
And then Jack calls my name.
And I'm like, okay, this must be the Moonbirds thing.
It was just so funny, like, how that timing came through.
The only thing I wanted to add to this, which I think is, like, a conversation, hopefully,
topic for a broader thing, is that I don't know what other projects incentivize so strongly
for holders to right away nest their tokens and not sell.
And I think that that makes a bit of a difference as well in this conversation, and that hasn't
been brought up, just because that was definitely, I think, a huge thing, even with, you know,
tech involved and not making it actually easy to delist your stuff once you list it, with
the promise of rewards for not having stuff for sale right at the top of when the project
had, like, the largest value based on ETH.
I think that that makes a little bit of a difference in holder decision making, just
because I, yeah, I wanted to throw that in there.
I think it's an important thing for whenever you guys have this conversation, be it tomorrow,
be it a decade from now.
I don't care.
But please, please, please, I think it's important to have that in there, because that
was a big thing that happened, was like, nest your thing, don't sell it, we will reward
you.
And that was very much a big part of the marketing for that project.
And I just had to bring it up.
I will shut up now and never speak of moonbirds again.
Oh, no, very, very valid.
Real quick, Alpha, if you are, if you hold a dot swoosh poster, do not forget that drop
today.
I am having FOMO after showing up on the spreadsheet, thinking I was receiving a poster.
I was not one of the lucky 33%, so will not be participating in that gated drop today at
noon Pacific time, I believe is the, when that dot swoosh drop goes live, thanks to, thanks
to Dort.
I'd just like to quickly defend myself and say, I did start this by trying to push down
the narrative of social audio, and I even tweeted about it, a massive thread today, so
just want to call out the fact that I was asked specifically about what could the comms be
improved by.
I'm so sorry for everyone who is sick of hearing me talk about proof.
I promise also not to talk about this for the rest of the week.
I love you guys.
I'm really sorry.
Audio and brands and the power of the subconscious mind.
I too did not realize until Jack's thread this morning that not just us, also Nifty,
also Rug Radio, all rocking the Twitter blue in our color palette.
Pretty, yeah, just case in point that the subconscious mind is very powerful, in fact,
and don't, don't ever, don't fade the subconscious mind.
I was going to say that.
And also, I don't know if you guys, if any of you had this added to your account, I had
it added to my like IRL account, not this one, where they have this communities thing,
not communities where you make a community, but where you actually act as, I guess, like
this judge of, of sentiment and truth and you get to comment on other people's stuff and
evaluate it.
My other account ended up being eligible for this like pilot program.
I don't know if anyone else has seen it, but I thought that was very interesting that
Twitter rolled this out where you're like, is this true or not?
And then you get to go through and actually make public comments on why you think whatever,
you know, is posted and trending is, is, is true or not.
It's like a, uh, like an ad hoc citizen science bedding of tweets or something.
It's a, it's kind of interesting.
Nice.
Let's, uh, let's go down to Von Fronten, who I know is on a short time span as well.
Hey, Jim, everybody.
I'm not here to talk about proof remover whatsoever.
I'm here to talk about something that is far more important, which is food.
So we have not gotten to talk about VCon at all.
And the last time that I was up on stage and we were talking about food and the Midwest,
everyone started dunking on the Midwest about being chain restaurants and Applebee's and
Olive Gardens only.
That's fun.
That is fun.
Living in Florida now, having grown up in the Midwest, the Midwest has some of the best
restaurants you'll ever find.
Best bang for your buck as well.
All right.
So what I'm, what I'm going to do is I, I promised the thread on this today.
It is live.
I'm posting it up here on the Jumbotron.
For anyone who is coming to VCon this week, I have tried to give you just a sampling of
some Fronten favorites that are my, me or my wife have gone to or enjoy at some point
in time living in Indianapolis.
Highly recommend everyone check it out.
Steve, I am really sorry.
I did not include any Indian food breakfast options.
I will go in the hunt and add that to the thread as soon as I can find someone that serves
Indian food at 7am here in Indianapolis.
Looking forward to it.
Sounds like a delicious breakfast food.
I will be looking forward to the thread.
I do think that there is a completely improper view of the Midwest, which has plenty of good
restaurants and plenty of chefs.
Um, you know, I, I, you can get plenty of good meals at pretty much any major city you
go to that's in like the top 100 cities in the country.
There's a food scene.
So, um, you know, it's like, even like people are like, Oh, Midwestern food sucks.
Tell Kansas city barbecue that.
Um, you know, so there's a lot of, uh, a lot of good food, uh, going on all across the
country and looking forward to seeing you next week.
Looking forward to VCon.
Um, actually I should say, well, we have a room here.
People, uh, if anybody wants to co-host or even potentially host the show on Wednesday,
sounds like Kat might've changed his flight to be during this.
And my flight takes off at like 10 45, which means that I need to be in the airport.
I'll have at least be landed by, I'll at least be landed before you board.
So we should be, we should be at least able to hand that thing off, but right.
Whoever's hosting that depends.
You know what I mean?
Like, it's like, if I host, then I probably have to like hand off to somebody at least
while I'm going through security, which is probably going to be like, I don't know,
like nine o'clock, nine 30, something like that.
I'm going to be in an Uber, which means hit or miss on how my, uh, you know, if they're
going to be playing music or not, or if I ask them not to.
So I just, I think we probably need a second person here.
Yeah.
We might be a DJ and handle host day now that I think about it, uh, to do the, uh, the
easy handoff there from, from multiple phones.
Also, I didn't see it make Von Frutten's list and probably for good reason at an NFT
conference.
Um, however, I do know that there will be some couples attending and while this may
be like a breakfast spot for Steve, the Eagle's nest is still a thing.
Is that right?
Von Frutten?
Eagle's nest.
Very much a thing at the top of the Hyatt Regency, which is one of the VCon hotels.
Uh, fantastic.
I've not been there in like over a decade.
I don't want to say it's been at least a decade for me.
That's why I had to ask if it was still a thing.
Cause it's been at least a decade for myself, maybe two, but yeah, it's like a, uh, you
know, does it rotate or is it just, just paying a rent?
It rotates.
No, it is.
No, it rotates.
It's a circular restaurant, very top of the hotel circles, uh, slow enough that you're
not going to get motion sickness fast enough that you're going to get to see the whole
city.
And I saw you did include Nikki Blaine's.
I'm not sure.
I knew Mr.
Pink was in here earlier.
I'm not sure if he's still down there, but, uh, I do know he is going to be at VCon
and I think Steve, you alluded to it earlier, but I think we need to lean into Mr. Pink and
Zeeb a little bit and Peace Frog and Nikki Blaine's.
It's just screaming RSOP after party.
One of these nights that were in Indy.
It is, it is, is it even considered a, a speakeasy or is it just like a jazz bar?
It's, it's like, I can't remember how you enter.
I can, I can vividly remember the inside, but I have no recollection of the entrance to
the place.
Yeah, it is.
I'll say it's not a speakeasy in terms.
I do have two speakeasies on the list there, the vault and a wise guys, um, which are like
secret.
There's a code there.
You have to know where the secret door is, stuff like that.
Nikki Blaine's.
It's like, it's more of a cigar lounge.
It's right by the circle, which is like the very like dead center of downtown Indianapolis.
Um, but like, you do have to go like downstairs.
It's all underground.
So there's a sign you go through the door, you walk downstairs, a flight, everything's underground,
you know, dark leather couches, cigars, cocktails.
It is a, it is a whole vibe.
Very nice.
I'm pumped for Indy.
I don't know how we got on the topic of, of Midwest food establishments, but, uh, someone
we were talking about it last week.
I don't remember who brought the topic, but someone was like making fun.
Actually, it might've been one of our shows.
Someone was like making fun of like the fact that they were doing pilots in Columbus,
Ohio.
And I was actually, actually Columbus, Ohio is the capital for pilots in restaurant, in
retail.
Many, many, you know, brands are piloted there.
Many restaurants that want to pilot, like Wendy's are piloting their automated, uh, robot
restaurant thing in Columbus.
White Castle is actually, yeah, they're, they're actually headquartered.
White Castle and, uh, Wendy's are both headquartered in the Columbus area.
And, uh, yeah, the Midwest is a hotbed for innovative food offerings, believe it or not.
Well, Columbus is the, is an ultimate test market because of the demographics they have
there.
It's actually known to be one of the top test markets in the country for that reason is,
uh, Columbus, Ohio has, it's like this large city with a school sort of in the middle of
it with one of the largest schools in the country, but also has a pretty like wide demographic
to test things ubiquitously across the country.
So like we used to like get all of like, not just like, but you know, this, this doesn't
help that the chains thing.
Cause like, right.
There are like whole like great restaurants that test things out, but like literal restaurants
will test their test food that nobody else gets to try their different iterations of
sandwiches and things to see how it's received and then decide if they want to roll it out
elsewhere in the country.
It's pretty cool.
Um, it's pretty cool.
Um, let's run over to crypto Jesus, then loop, uh, next crypto Jesus, GM, sir.
Thank you guys for having me.
So I can either talk about the evolution of ordinals and how they're going to proceed
in the future, or I can talk about why I think NFT staking is a bunch of bullshit.
I'm actually curious as to why you think NFT staking is a bunch of bullshit.
Cause I actually, actually, I want to, I strongly disagree with the premise, but I'm curious to
hear your reasoning to see if it changes my mind.
So to date, there haven't been any applications of NFT staking that actually makes sense from
a logistics point of view.
They're only introducing staking as a perspective of limiting liquidity, because let's take
moonbirds as an example, because everyone likes to talk about them and they're nesting,
right?
Moonbird nesting, them introducing this rewards into their ecosystem, right?
You nest for a certain amount of time.
You get access to these drops, whatever the fuck.
Well, guess what?
It turns out they don't have to require you to be staking in order to do the exact same
thing.
They could just make it.
So it's from the date you purchase your moonbird, right?
So if you transfer your moonbird and buy a new one, then your reward counter starts from
day one again.
But the reason why all these NFT platforms require you to do staking is so they can create
more speculation.
By limiting the amount of liquidity available in the open market, price driving differentials
are much stronger.
But that's, but hold on, hold on while you're going there.
That's literally the point.
It's a rewards program because they're rewarding you for not selling.
So they're putting it into a, either a contract or a soft contract that helps officially track
Like, do they need to?
They could reward you for not selling without requiring you to stake is what I'm saying.
They could reward you for not selling because they could just set it up.
So when you sell your moonbird, then, you know, your history of rewards is gone.
And if you buy a new one, you have to start from day one, right?
From a, yeah, but, but, but the, but the staking mechanism allows it so that you could actually
transfer the asset while still in the staking protocol.
And somebody could actually receive a higher end one, which can change the price action
of it and can change the reward mechanism of it.
It's like being able to sell a higher status in a rewards program, like a Delta or a Marriott.
Like, imagine if I could sell, if I'd be like, you know what, I'm not going to travel anymore.
I, I, do you want to get to, you know, diamond elite status?
Cool.
I'll sell you mine versus somebody just saying, Hey, start a new rewards program tomorrow.
And from day one, you'll start doing it.
Like, I think there's functionality there.
And I also think there's functionality of the staking contract and you can program against
So I, I don't know that that to me, that is part of the point is it, is it holds water
and saying, and it also puts a particular branding around the idea of not selling, which
actually helps.
I think, like you said, I think it's, it's equal part marketing tool as well.
Like, don't get me wrong.
Like, I think it's a marketing tool, but I, I don't think that makes it purposeless.
I think that it has tons of purpose versus like, Oh yeah.
Like, by the way, like we just, like, I think it would get more thrown away of, Oh, if you
don't sell, we, they have this reward system that they kind of track and reward people
with and track manually versus you're in the staking contract.
It has a name, it's branded, and you can transfer it to other wallets and other people, uh, and
have a higher demand for those.
So actually I would go ahead.
I'll, I'll let you continue and see if I can do all of those things still without forcing
people to lock up their assets.
So like, if you look at staking in the terms of the Ethereum blockchain, the reason why
staking makes sense is because you're putting up assets as collateral 32 Ethereum as collateral
to validate the system.
The reason why you're staking is because it's collateral.
So if you validate incorrectly or maliciously, you lose your collateral.
There's no mechanism that requires staking in any of these NFT ecosystems to achieve the
same thing.
The only difference is one thing, limited liquidity.
That's the entirety of the purpose of staking for NFT markets.
That's the only use case that has been introduced to date.
And the reason is to drive speculation and price action.
I think you're thinking, I think you're thinking of it very literally though.
Like, I think like you're thinking of it literally as it applies to Ethereum staking.
And if they use a different term, I mean, like again, use nesting as an example or whatever
you want to call it.
I don't know.
Like I, I, I, I, I, I understand the premise by what you're saying.
So I think we're having two different conversations, which is why I think you are right.
But I think I may also be right in that I agree with you.
I think it is a incentive for not selling and keeping off the market.
I think it is a branded incentive to keep things off the market.
I think it makes it easier to build a contract around a reward when you have a staking contract
for sure.
Right.
I mean, that's, that's something that'll just make it easier because you're building against
like one contract like that versus like everybody's individual and kind of trying to keep
track of that contract.
Every individual token just has an individual token ID.
It wouldn't take any additional work.
But like, I guess like it's, I don't see the, like, I think the purpose you said is quite
literally a purpose, which is it's a loyalty rewards program versus just saying like, ah,
you hold this thing.
You could get loyalty rewards without staking is what I'm saying.
Subdux.
Yeah.
Subdux did that.
It didn't work very well.
Like it's, they, they had it.
So they were rewarding you with a certain number of Volt and you could go back and claim, but
nobody ever thought about it because it wasn't really something that.
But what did Volt do?
Right.
Like this is a greater issue of NFT projects.
Generally speaking, don't have real value propositions.
And this is what happens in the bear market is in the bull market, no one asks themselves
this one really important question, which is why, right?
Like, why am I buying this?
Why does anyone give a fuck about this product?
And if you really ask yourself that question, I'm sure nine out of 10 times people will find
that the answer is FOMO and speculation, right?
They're really just buying these assets because everyone's doing it and they don't want to miss
the wave and they think it's going to be the next boarding, right?
That's all anyone can think about in this space.
And that's the fundamental issue.
This technology is brand new and because it is brand new, guess what?
Innovative technology that is brand new tends to have little to no value propositions initially,
right?
They do in the future.
So right now, really, we did a shit ton of gambling in the bull market because everyone
was being drived by FOMO.
But now that 90% of the capital speculation and human liquidity is gone, people are crying
because they don't know why they're holding these assets because it all goes back to that
one fundamental question.
Why?
If you cannot see yourself as deriving value from a product you own, why do you even own
Yeah, I agree with that.
That I'm 100% aligned with.
I'm 100% aligned that people...
And that was sort of a little bit about what I was talking about earlier with like, hey,
like people bought in speculating, hoping something will go up.
It's the same reason people didn't sell, you know, Clonex when they were however many, you
know, ungodly amount of ETH or you name it, right?
I mean, like, you know, you know, cool cats when they were like 15 ETH, then people bought
them and they're mad at cool cats that they went down.
It's like, well, you bought something and you don't necessarily have the why behind it.
You know, I think a lot of people bought with the why of community, but there's only so
many communities.
I barely see my friends in real life.
Like there's only so many communities I can be a part of.
And some of them I derive value from, again, Yuga, again, personally proof, not trying
to go down that route, right?
I derive value there from those two ecosystems.
You know, and when I look at doodles, I've derived a lot of value from it and kind of
enjoyment and what I've, you know, done there.
Like I found myself personally enjoying being in that community.
But I think, you know, the why is something that, honestly, like probably relatively early
on, probably like, you know, within, you know, nine months of me getting into NFTs, I started
asking myself why I was doing things.
And it's why I do, you know, NFL all day is for all intents and purposes, a failing
platform right now.
They literally got sued by their partner or went to court with their partner because they
weren't fulfilling their end of the bargain.
But I continue to collect and play around on it because I enjoy it.
And my why is I like collecting.
That's pretty much the end of it, right?
And it's like, I look at generally my collections.
Why do I like going to Chain Monkey?
I like the community.
I like what they're building.
I'm interested in ordinals and it's going to make it a really easy on-ramp for me
there.
Why do I own a VFriend?
Because I want to get three years of VCon.
Like people are asking about the VFriends floor being down because they're upset because
it went up to like 20 ETH before the, you know, what was it?
The Sotheby's auction or whatever, or Christie's or whatever it was.
It's like, okay, but like I bought a rare and even a rare at like 3,800 bucks at the time
got me three years of a conference that I would have paid, you know, $1,500 for every
single year.
Like I went, I grew up in the conference world.
Like that's not an ungodly amount of money to pay for a conference.
Like a lot of times you're cheap, whatever.
But like, yes, like I bought my VFriend.
So I think like with what you're saying, I think the why, you know, and sometimes the
why doesn't work.
I bought Punks Comics because I wanted fractional shares of CryptoPunks, an asset I'll probably
never own because I don't know if all the money or be able to buy one.
So I did that.
Turns out that staking contract isn't the most ideal scenario.
And so now my Punks tokens are worth literally nothing.
Cannot swap them for liquidity, probably for legal reasons.
And I'm tied into some gaming ecosystem, which is cool, but like not what I necessarily bought
in for.
So sometimes the why changes, which is also interesting because again, like we talk about,
again, not going down the proof, you could drive it home, but like them changing directions,
major pivot.
Punks Comics pivoted like crazy.
Like I bought a Punks, you know, you know, a Punks comic because I wanted to own a fractional
shares of a CryptoPunk.
Now I don't really own fractional shares of a CryptoPunk.
And here I am wondering what POW is in a gaming system.
So I actually agree with you.
It's in Yuga assets.
Like I'm not super into gaming, so I'll probably sell my vessel.
I mean, probably not because I only have one, but I'll play around on the other side and
do that.
Like I've been buying a lot more art lately because my why of buying art is supporting artists
and enjoying that.
So I think you're exactly right.
And I think that's something people, I think it also comes down to that personal accountability
I was mentioning where I don't think people take personal accountability for the things
that they bought and they blame the team.
Like I bought Subducks because I like Frankie Nines.
I like the art.
I think the community was, the community was fun.
I played around with them.
They were actually using Volt in some really interesting ways at the time.
And so were other projects, but it didn't really seem to go.
And I liked the cartoon they were building or like, you know, whatever.
And I've had fun with it, but it's gone down because the markets decided they don't
have a clear direction.
The cartoon never came out.
It didn't turn into the thing we thought it would like, but you know, I don't know.
I mean, I take accountability for buying my gutter cat at three to four ETH and not selling
it at 10 ETH when I sold it at like one ETH when ETH is less.
It's just, you know, I think why is a question everybody should ask when they're purchasing
things and not be as tied up into, you know, it's like I, even like Jenkins wasn't like
the overly most successful project in some ways.
It mooned at one point because people got excited when they signed with CAA.
It's another good example.
Like, but personally, I can tell you exactly why I bought it.
I thought it was cool to have my board ape illustrated in a book.
I thought it was cool to be part of a creative process and collaborative community generated
content at that level written by a bestselling author.
You don't really get that sort of thing all the time, right?
I mean, that was a new feature and I want to be part of like the new innovative process.
So I actually think you're right about that.
I just, I think the nuance we probably disagree on is I don't necessarily think staking has
to serve like a greater overarching purpose the way it does for validating the ETH ecosystem.
I more look at it as like, it's kind of like a marketing tool that you can brand that helps
you lock something up and in reward for not selling, you can have this vernacular,
like it creates the common, you know, rallying cry.
Like when I say think different, you think Apple.
When I say just do it, you think Nike.
I know those are like extreme examples, but when you say nesting, people are like, oh,
you're Moonbird, you're nested.
And you have this like, and you meet someone else who's nested and you high five because
you're like, oh my God, we're both nested.
It's like, if you get a staking contract of like going to the jungle or something, you'd
be like, hey, we're both in the jungle.
Ha ha, high five.
Like, I think that's the purpose more than anything.
And then how they reward that customer loyalty, that matters too.
But that's where I would push back on the purpose of it.
I think you actually define the purpose in what you said, which is just not a greater
good, but it does have a purpose for the NFTs, if that makes sense.
And I agree, the technology itself has way more purposeful meetings.
Like I said, this weekend, I just finished 250 pages of those meetings outside of Monkey
JPEG.
So I agree with you on that.
Yeah, it's just the main driver of value in this space has always been speculation.
And if you look at all these individual projects, the real issue in the bear market that people
are starting to wake up to is execution, right?
What you need is for whatever project you're vested into to execute clean and cut, right?
We want to see that projects can deliver and can deliver great products.
And there have been a few communities that have done that very well throughout the bear
market.
You go out seeing one of them.
Maybe we could say D-Gods is another.
And there's probably a few others you can name.
But the issue with all these projects is if your core value proposition is community, you
better execute extremely fucking well because the second you hiccup in a bear market, it's
going to burn real badly.
And that's why I like really taking the time to look at other emerging products and NFT
products.
But ENS is one of the really great ones that a lot of people still kind of sleep on, I
feel like, because ENS is one of those projects that achieves all three, right?
You have real utility, decentralized domains, right?
Websites that cannot be blocked.
You have speculation because you know how some people are with the ENS numbers.
You know, four-digit numbers have a lot of speculation around them.
Three-digit numbers have a lot of speculation.
And you have community, right?
It's like your perfect trifecta for an NFT product.
But at the same time, you look at ENS domains and they're extremely underutilized.
How many of you have ever even visited a .eth website, right?
Yes, these websites exist, but how many people are actively using them?
Plenty of people who own .eth domains just use it as a pointer for their address so they
can have money sent to them.
Very few people actively use them to host websites.
So we'll see if that's the kind of thing, of course, where the value proposition will
drive up dramatically as the U.S. government starts introducing regulation to all these foreign
governments around the world.
Because as they start introducing regulation, we're going to see more censorship for internet
service providers and governments.
They're going to start blocking websites.
And that's where you'll see things like this becoming more and more valuable.
Yeah, and I think execution and clean execution of product actually isn't always the driver
of value.
I think you're actually more spot on with your idea that this space is drawn by speculation.
Because I'll give an example.
Because I'm looking at a Clonex, because you said ask your why.
To me, there's a why there.
Like, a Clonex floor is relatively unchanged, no different than a lot of the other mid-caps
at the moment.
Like, you know, like between that two and three floor price.
Well, Clonex just executed on delivering, they've delivered product, number one.
I've seen like the hats, the shirts, etc.
And this is one I've changed my mind on, you know, as I've seen them execute, like, they
just executed on, they're going to deliver crypto kicks, they've had people cash those
in, and they've created a shoe, which will be delivered by the end of the year, that,
again, arguably the most recognizable athlete in the world were to a playoff game, right?
It's like, so they're actually executing.
And it's not moving the floor price.
So I think it still is a big speculation play or future value play that people are looking
at personally.
I'm not saying it's going to move the floor price in the up direction.
I guess what I'm saying is it's going to keep it from going downward, right?
You guys are in the same position, where if you look at apes, right now, they're still
like, you know, semi-down from even when they released Doogie Dash and all these other
platforms, right?
We haven't seen a lot of, we've seen a lot of volume, we've seen a lot of activity.
We haven't seen too much price action, except around those specific new assets that are
dropping.
Speaking of speculation, yeah, I just, again, I'm going to completely derail the conversation,
but this is coming in hot.
It's the conspiracy theory we're all here for.
Speaking of speculation, this is the first I've ever heard this, but this take, it makes
so much sense.
And it actually, for the first time ever, it actually gives some credence to Chambers'
take that Jimmy Butler is better than Michael Jordan.
The speculation is that Butler is, in fact, the GOAT's son.
Have you heard this before?
This is so, Cap, I feel like this is a very, I'm trying to remember when I first heard
this theory.
It was certainly a very, very long time ago.
When they do the side-by-side shot and the ears and everything like that.
I've never heard it before, and there's some merit here.
Have we ever, has Jimmy Butler's birth certificate ever been made public?
Can we confirm that he is, in fact, not the son of Michael Jordan?
I think it's been debunked, number one.
Number two, it's certainly possible.
He's a little bigger than Jordan, plays a little bit of a different game, but I love it.
I actually love the idea of Jimmy Butler, because the thing about Jimmy Butler is he may not
be, like, the, you know, he's, I would actually argue he's maybe the most underrated player
in the NBA, because he never gets brought up in those sort of top 10, top 15 discussions,
and he's obviously there.
He's put himself there, I feel like, in the past few years especially.
But I would argue his attitude matches Michael Jordan's, like, just got that dog in him.
Yeah, and everyone else goes to these super teams.
Everyone else goes to these super teams.
Butler just goes and keeps winning.
He's got that dog, like, I know this is such, like, a generic thing.
I just feel like Butler has this dog in him that most players don't have.
Like, he's, you know what I'm saying?
The best part is, like, the half of people that were completely turned off by the proof
conversation on morning, those same people are also the ones that, like, puke in their
mouth every time we start talking sports.
Yeah, and I know his parents, like, this whole thing's been debunked, and the Butler parent,
being Michael Jordan's son theory is, like, a hilarious one that I've seen.
But I just, I love, I don't, like, there are people who I get why you would not like Jimmy
Butler, but, like, he just has that dog in him.
And, like, you know, like, just the way he, like, talks, the way he acts, the way he approaches
things, it's just something about him.
It's like, I would love, he's a guy I'd love to have on my team to root for just because
he just, and when he takes over a game, when he gets going, again, it just, it's funny
because, like, when people said he was like Michael Jordan, like, I think Michael Jordan's
attitude, part of what I think made him successful, and you can even see it in the last dance,
he's still got that fucking, like, why, the guy who punched Steve Kerr in the face, right?
He's still got that about him.
I'm curious, after you watch Air, the, they, the casting, I'll just leave it at that, I'm
not going to spoil it for anyone, but I'm curious your takes on the casting after you
watch Air.
Yeah, and I hope they don't make Michael Jordan, like, an overly sympathetic character.
That would actually be disappointing.
That's, that's my, that's my take I want as you're casting on MJ.
Because I, because I, I like, what I like about MJ, and what I like about Jimmy Butler, is
that it's not that they're sympathetic characters.
Like, LeBron, I, I would argue at times, because he is, like, he, he does take on certain social
causes and things, I do think he has this affinity of wanting to be liked, and I do think.
Yeah, there's no, yeah, there's no way LeBron is Jordan's son.
But I, I think there's actually some, there's some much more similar styles in, in, in Butler
and MJ.
Yeah, or it's funny, the podcast I listen to, they would call him, like, joking around,
like, one of them was trying to argue he wasn't, like, a top 15 player.
And then, like, when they started arguing, like, he could tell us his argument with Swimsy.
So he, like, because it's, like, a joking kind of parody podcast a little bit, he started
being, like, oh, no, he's, like, I did it.
He's number 16.
I said he's not 15.
And they named 15 players he thought was above him.
And then he started calling him J-Butt to try to, like, reduce and make him, like, like,
he started using a nickname J-Butt.
So, like, it just to make, because it sounded, it makes him sound less intimidating, which I thought
was hilarious.
Um, but no, I love that conspiracy theory.
Yes, did derail us.
But, like, it's a fun one, because it's, like, if Jimmy Butler were, like, a nice guy, or,
like, a good, like, like, it's not that he's not a good person.
I don't know him personally.
But, like, he's got that sort of edge that made Jordan Jordan, which I think a lot of
people love.
So, um, I don't know.
That, that's my take on it.
So, I think if there was a crazy conspiracy theory to be true, that one, I'm sure his parents
would be a little upset about it, but I think that one has some credence, um, because I
certainly would be probably a little upset if people were going around saying my son
was somebody else's kid.
Uh, either way, um, let's, um, let's, uh, it's kind of like, oh, you want to throw the
other conspiracy theory while we're doing it, and then we will go to loop.
I'll throw this little, like, uh, bomb out there.
And you have to, you have to remember, MJ's Prime was well before social media, and despite
that, he are, we, we are, we are well informed of his.
Um, colorful pass, checkered pass, I don't know, like he, he was a, he's one of us.
Like he was a, a, a degenerate gambler and, um, competitor risk taker, you name it.
So it's like they're, they're, uh, as Jay says, who, who originally put this, this, uh,
speculation in my head says definitely possible MJ's past is wild.
So yeah, there, there could be something, uh, something here to the, the, you know, where
there's smoke, there's fire.
Yeah, it's a good point.
The other crazy one, if you want to throw it in, in, in there is with the royal sort
of, uh, you know, with, with King Charles and all the memes that have happened there.
Um, the speculation that, um, Prince Harry's there's the, there's these photos that resurface.
I don't know if you've seen this.
So Diana had a redheaded bodyguard that looks like Prince Harry, like a redheaded bodyguard
that looks like Prince Harry.
Like if you Google it, like they show pictures of them and it's like, you got to find the pictures
of this guy when he's younger, but you're like, if Prince Harry lived in like the eighties
and nineties, that's probably what he'd look like.
So that's the other one that surfaces around.
And like Royal family people are like my favorite type of, how do I explain it?
They're like my favorite type of sports fans.
They have the most crazy theories.
They throw things around.
Like there were theories going around, like Megan Markle showed up to the inauguration in
disguise.
Like all these, it's so fun to read.
If you ever dive down, like Royal, like there's a lady who adamantly was arguing that the queen
who obviously has passed away, never farted and never pooped.
This was like an honest discussion where she was dead serious.
So like, I love those sorts of things, but like, yeah, there is a big kind of conspiracy
theory floating around that Prince Harry's father is actually Diana's bodyguard because
there's, again, there's sort of like pictures of this bodyguard who's redheaded, obviously
William and Harry look a little different, right?
Like as far as that goes.
So like, it's just, I don't know.
It's an interesting, interesting discussion debate.
Glad we tackled that.
Coffee with captain.
Come for the proof debate.
Stay for the Royal family conspiracy theories.
Yeah.
We're, we're, we're, we're hitting on all cylinders.
I'm sure.
I'm sure now it's like cap's going to be like, all right, I have people in my DM saying,
please go back to proof.
So here we are.
Um, let's run it down to loop and then we're going to go loop circles and snowflakes.
And we'll probably finish out there because, uh, you boys got a lot of work to get done
before VCon.
Uh, thanks crypto Jesus for the take on staking.
Appreciate the perspective.
And I think we're just done.
Uh, I think we're on different ends of the coin, but saying the same thing almost.
So I appreciate that.
Um, let's run it down to loop circles and then we will go to snowflake.
Yo, what is up everybody?
Happy Monday.
Uh, I'm, I'm down to keep it sports right now.
Cause, cause you all know I love sports.
So I'm down, I don't know if anybody's heard the, uh, the Jeremy Roenick, uh, Michael Jordan
story.
I think it's like one of the craziest stories.
Uh, so Jeremy Roenick is actually like a, not a close friend, but a friend of mine.
And, uh, you know, he's a really, really famous hockey player for the, uh, shout out
to NHL 94.
We were, we were throwing it back to the old school video games this weekend and it was
punter who called out NHL 94, arguably one of the best video game video sports games of
all time period.
That Eisenman Federoff line was borderline unstoppable OP for sure.
That is an absolute throwback right there.
Uh, yeah, like Jeremy Roenick is like one of the classic hockey players and was just so
mean and so tough, uh, constantly losing teeth.
Um, and you know, a degenerate gambler, uh, and kind of an asshole, but a nice guy, nice
family guy.
Uh, and so he tells a story where, you know, he went out, uh, with MJ, you know, MJ at a
game, they played Cleveland later that night.
Uh, and they're out in the course, you know, uh, first tee time in the morning, uh, you
know, so they open up a couple beers, uh, they go play 18 and, you know, they're betting
5k a hole or 2k a hole or whatever it is.
Uh, and you know, Jeremy just wipes the floor with MJ and like, you know, MJ is pissed.
And so he's like, you know what, let's, let's roll another 18.
He's like, are you kidding me?
Like you have a game later today.
And he's like, we're rolling another 18.
So they crack open a couple more beers.
They roll another 18 and Jeremy takes them again, like absolutely wipes the floor with him.
So MJ's, you know, mad at this point and, uh, just decides he's like, uh, so Jeremy,
like kind of being an asshole is like, you know what, I'm going to put all, like you just
played 36 holes and drank 10 beers with me.
I'm going to put all the money that you just, you just, uh, that I just beat you for.
And I'm going to put it on Cleveland tonight.
And, uh, MJ goes, all right, I bet you, we win by more than 20 and I dropped more than
Uh, and they won by 22 that night and MJ dropped 52.
Just like, I think, I think that is like the type of crazy mindset.
Like, I don't know if Jimmy Butler has that mindset.
Uh, but like, that is just the craziness of, of sports right now.
Like that, that's what I love about sports.
Like I love, I love when people like can just get into that zone where it's like they've
practiced.
And I felt this because I was an athlete for a long, long time.
Um, and without a doubt practice my sport for, for over 10,000 hours.
And when you get to, to that level of expertise, uh, it's such a cool feeling because, you know,
like you don't, you don't have to even, you don't even have to close second best yourself.
It's like not even close.
It's like, you know, exactly what is going to happen before it's going to happen.
And like for MJ to be at the top of the NBA and just be able to take over a game like
that and say, you know what?
Like, this is exactly what's going to happen.
Uh, like you, you saw that like last night with Jason Tatum.
Uh, it's like, Hey, I'm just going to take this game over.
Like, see you later Sixers.
Uh, so yeah, I, I love the, I love the sports talk this morning.
I kind of, I think we should maybe, uh, you know, once every two weeks, it's a good
take for sports focus.
It's like life alpha.
I don't know hearing you say that.
I don't know if I've ever made the exact connection before, but now hearing you.
You talk through it.
It's never been more clear that like I, I can get into a flow state and I'm near certain
it's because of playing sports my entire childhood growing up.
Like, I don't know if I would be able to find a flow state as easy as I can, if it wasn't
for athletics and competitive sports.
And to me, it's like, even as an adult, like I could go play a, you know, rec league softball
game.
And as soon as I step foot across the, onto the diamond, I'm, I'm in that flow state.
Everything else goes away.
It's, it's, it is, while I think there is some natural talent, I also believe it's
something that can be learned, but I don't know how you would teach or develop that skill
set without competitive sports.
Yeah.
Flow states.
Oh, go ahead, go ahead, Luke.
Go ahead, Luke.
Get in.
I was going to say like, yeah, you can, you can even see it.
Like I, I, I spread athletics across my entire life and I think like there, there's something
that's universal about just excellence and practice.
And like, you can see it in spaces too.
Like there's, there's a lot of people.
Like I, I am, I'm never a person that's just going to fan boy Frank.
Like I like him.
I've met a couple of times and I think he's a really good guy.
I think works really hard, but you can clearly see his expertise in spaces and talking about
web three because he does it all day, every single day.
And like, there's other founders like that, you know, across the board, but like, there's
also other founders that are not.
And that like, when you really press them, um, like I talked to, uh, you know, Matt, Matt
Armani, the guy that, uh, uh, one of the backpack guys.
Um, and like, I asked him a really hard question and he just absolutely killed it.
And it's like, it's clear that he's been talking about this for hours and hours and hours and
hours and has thought through this stuff.
Like I, every time I make an investment or every time I, cause you know, I, I, I truly
believe like web three, it's like, you know, yes, everything is about speculation.
And I think what we can kind of get wrong about that is like, it, that's, that, that's what
everything about is about when you invest in startups, like it's all speculation and it's,
it's investing in a person.
And when I think about, you know, should I put money with a person?
Like I'm looking for that expertise and like kind of comparing it to sports.
It's like, they, they need to put their 10,000 hours.
Like they, they better have been here for, you know, a year plus at least, uh, if I'm
going to give them, you know, a chunk of investment, because it's like other, otherwise you're going
to be watching them go through their, their early stages of development.
And like, maybe that's what we're seeing with, you know, a couple of the, a couple of things
with, uh, with moonbirds.
Um, no, I'm just kidding.
I just want to bring it back to that.
Uh, but yeah, like it's, you know, like I, I always try to look for that and I feel
like sports is kind of a perfect, it's a perfect analogy to, you know, just there's, there's
something that's universal, that excellence.
I think like, actually, and again, I know like, I'm not trying to go down the proof of
moonbirds rabbit hole too deeply, but I actually think there's something, again, cap, I'd be
curious to your take on this.
Cause I think this is a conversation, like maybe people aren't quite as sick of having that
I think is actually nuanced and interesting is maybe part of the expectation when you
talk about the high expectations is, and I know it's been said kind of like this before,
but maybe it's more that you don't expect them to be learning some of these things in
public that they're learning, whereas others, maybe you would more, and maybe that's more
of the grace and the expectations.
And like the way you talk about, like, I don't want, you know, I want this person kind of know
what they're doing and be actually going through it versus like learning on the spot.
I think it's an interesting point.
I also think the thing about the flow state, it's funny.
You talk about sports.
I'm so nerdy.
Like I immediately went to like flow state of writing because that's sort of like the
area where I've always felt comfortable my whole life and something I've always been
like, you know, I've always done.
And it's just, I was going to say, I don't think it's a matter of the, um, like necessarily
even a matter of like having played sports or whatever, which I do think it's, there's
something to be said when you're playing sports.
For me, it's more like video games.
Like when I'm in a flow state and video last night, actually great.
I can see that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I could definitely see video games.
I think video games were like, cause I played sports growing up, but I was never like a stellar
athlete.
I'm the guy who can like not embarrass myself, but be kind of good at everything.
Um, it's, it's not sports.
It's competition.
I think that's what it is.
That's to me, it's competition.
Competition brings out the best in me and it gets me in a state where that's sole focus.
And as, as you could probably tell on this show, my natural state is probably not sole
focus, right?
It's one of multitasking and, and one where I just lean into the blessing that is ADHD
and, and do my best to, to maximize, maximize an efficient lifestyle that's all over the
place.
But when I'm competing, I'm all in.
And I think that's it, whether it's your writing or music or sports, or I think any, any, if
you are passionate about something and you want to win, I think that's where that to me
anyways, that's what I've uncovered this morning about myself is, is the power of competition.
I think you're right.
I think it's like, I mean, even last night was a good example.
I was playing halo.
Like sadly, my brother's almost back from England.
So like, he's been in England for a few, uh, he's been in England for a few days or, or
like a week or so.
And so I've lost my video game partner, like who I just always play video games with.
And it's, it's funny because he, um, you know, like it sucks because like, obviously I don't
have my partner in crime, but I'm playing without him.
And last night I had this game in halo where I went like plus 17 and it was like, I was having
a normal night.
It's kind of like playing like, you know, a little above average here and there.
And then all of a sudden I went plus 17 and I hit this flow state with the sniper where
it was like anybody who walked by my screen, one shot, you're out.
It was just like, I mean, it was like the time and anybody who's played a shoot, a first
person shooter knows like a lot of times a sniper rifle takes a couple of shots or like
if you get it in the head, it's perfect.
And like, it was literally like anybody in halo walk past my screen.
It was like zoom, zoom, boom.
And it was like, I wasn't even necessarily trying to go straight headshot every time it was just
happening.
And I was like, I am on fire right now.
Or like you spin around, you throw a grenade, you send one shot, you hit the guy with one
shot, the grenade.
It's like these crazy moves I was pulling.
And as I did it, and this is what you see in sports, my confidence grew.
So it was like I was doing it and then I would do even crazier shit and that crazier shit
would work.
And of course, then within a couple of games, it didn't carry over, right?
Because you just happen to be in a flow state in this one game.
But it's a weird phenomenon that happens.
And even with writing and public speaking, public speaking is something I take very seriously.
Like, you know, I was hard on myself around the NFT NYC.
I've gotten really good feedback on that from people who have no reason to give me good
feedback on it or who will be honest with me.
And I realized it's because I was telling my daughter, my daughter had to read a line
for her choir concert.
And she was like, yeah, I'll just read it off the page.
I'm like, no, the fuck you will not.
I was like, you will memorize that sort of like intro and you'll walk around practicing
You'll practice in the shower, you'll practice and you're walking.
So when you walk up, you can project it to the crowd exactly how you want.
And she did.
And she nailed it.
And that's how I like, like, and like my wife used the example when she was student.
She's like, you know how dad works on his NFT NYC presentation.
She's like, remember, he was just walking around the house reciting it without slides
or any sort of script.
She's like, that's what you need to do.
And she was right.
And I think like, but the competition of wanting to be better and wanting to be the best,
it's like, like the very first time I did a major public speech was at my graduation
where I had no business speaking.
I was a mediocre student.
And a bunch of other people who were like class president and valedictorian were speaking
and someone who traveled abroad.
And then they did a competition that had all these people from the, from my class entered.
Like who wants to give the last speech?
There was one winner and it was me.
And it was because I practiced.
I worked really hard.
I honed it on the beginning, middle end.
I told the story.
I made it relevant.
And like, it's almost like that there's a competitive nature there that I tap into when it comes
to like writing or other things like that.
And that desire to get better, um, that like drives you and can start to get you into a
flow state.
And I can't tell you how many times I've sat with the manuscript of my book and I've sat
there and I've been like, I can't write shit right now.
I'm not in it.
And then there's sometimes when I get in a flow state and I'm just hitting on all cylinders
and it's like, I'll knock out like page after example, after thing, after thing, as I'm
putting it in the book, like, right, it's like, I added another V friends example yesterday
that made a lot of sense.
And I'm like, why didn't I think of this before?
And why didn't I think of this before?
And like, I just, there's all Nike and artifact.
We were going to put Nike and artifact in one place in the book.
And then I'm like, wait a minute.
No, it goes here.
And I just write like, you know, a page and a half on it.
So I just think there's things that you can like put together.
And sometimes you hit that flow state and I do, and you're right.
I think it's competition, which is going to always make you better.
And then I think it's, it's, you know, that practice, you know, like Luke said that
10,000 hours, it's like, I can't tell you like, how bad I like look at my old writing
and how terrible I think it was.
Although I will say that high school speech, I read it, it holds up.
It's actually well-written and I'm proud of it.
It's like one of those few things in my life.
I'll be like, I'm proud of that.
But like, I think it is that practice because you get better.
It's like hosting spaces.
Like, you know, like I've started hosting spaces, you know, a couple, a year and a half
ago, two years ago, doing it every single day.
Like one of the reasons I'm good on my feet is because I was a morning show reporter.
So I had to go live four times every morning, like four times every morning between 5am and
8am.
I would be out in the field going live, trying to answer questions.
It's like, well, why are you really good on the spot?
Like people are like, oh, you're good on your feet.
And I always have been kind of good on my feet, but I'll tell you like trying to cover news
on the spot, get the information, tell the story, answer questions, be ready to go.
Like you need to be really, really, really prepared.
Um, so at least for me, like, it's like the practice and those things, it's why I don't
kind of discount any difficult part of my life or part I didn't like, because each one of
them had some sort of a building block and some sort of a skillset that you can learn
from.
So, um, loop, I'll throw it back to you.
Then we'll go circles and snowflake.
Yeah, I think that's like that.
You're a great example of like, you put in your, you've put in your hours on spaces and
like, you can have somebody come up here and just throw a crazy bad take.
Uh, it doesn't happen very often, but there are a confession.
Do I, am I going to have to play 10,000 hours of Fortnite before other side comes out?
Is this like, if I plan to be competitive at all, is that the, there aren't enough hours
left in your life tap?
I'm just going to be honest at this point.
It's I, I, I love you, but I'm doing the math now.
I'm doing the math.
See, Steve can riff.
Sorry, Luke.
Steve, Steve can riff off of that crazy take because you both have spent a crazy amount
of time up here.
Uh, and all right, just to spin this back to, to web three, cause I actually think, uh,
sports can be a kind of a good analogy for like total web three.
It's like web three, web three is a team sport.
And like you, I, I really feel like, like when we go back to the moon birds conversation,
like, I, I think the answer may be that like, we need to start looking at web three at like
a team sport.
Yes, you can be competitive within your own team and there's obviously an all-star and
then there are bench players.
Right.
But like you can, you can bump your own stats by just hoarding the ball and taking three
point shots.
Right.
Right.
But the way that you win is, is as a team, like you want to win a championship.
And if you don't think you're on the same team in web three, I think you're wrong.
And like, I think that's the attitude that we need to kind of start having, uh, because
ultimately like we all want web three to like be a real industry in real life.
And like, I think when, when we get to the, when we get to like, you know, bad announcements
and shit like that, it's like, this is a bad thing for our team.
How do we fix it?
Uh, and like, I, I think it's, it's kind of actually a good analogy.
Uh, and I've been thinking about this a lot, um, but it's like, you know, where, where
do we want to go as a team?
And like, how do we get there?
I think when you come at it with that perspective, I think you can actually kind of support founders,
um, and help them do their best work.
And then, you know, the other side is like, you do have, you are going to have a shitty
team member.
And sometimes you just have to kick them off the team.
Um, so there's both sides of the coin, but I think it could actually be kind of a cool
analogy.
I, and I think like, there's something to be said because it's funny.
Again, I can tell you confidently when you talk to brands and when you see what's out
there, web three and like NFTs are going to exist.
They are going to be a part of our daily lives.
They are going to be a thing because the software is better than other software.
But what we have to ask ourselves is when we're sitting here eating each other alive, because
someone has a different profile picture than you, because someone is an ape and someone
has an anime character and someone has a, you know, whatever, like a penguin.
If we're sitting here eating each other alive, the question is how many of these are going
to survive and how many more could survive if we're actually supportive of each other.
Again, it's not to say, don't be critical.
It's not to say, don't ask questions.
And it's not to say, don't, you know, give critiques and constructive critiques where
they're due a hundred percent.
That's something we should do.
But there is something to be said.
I think you're right about like, right now the space is so small.
Like it's like, it's like when I see people who hold other bags, just openly mocking them,
you know, it's, it's, again, it's, it's, it's, it's funny because when, you know, Ben.
Ben.eth person who's doing this crazy, you know, psyop shit coin, uh, left the, in, in
Wales tweet, he had a, uh, Wales thread.
He had a thing about when he left Moonbirds and like he, I think correctly critiqued CC
zero and actually in a very fair way, Ben did like to give him credit.
And I saw a lot of people from the Moonbirds community in the mentions probably with their
bags or whatever, cause they're upset.
He was leaving and insulting it or whatever.
Um, I saw them like almost like going after Yuga and it's like, when you create this as
a PVP game, we're not all going to win together.
It just doesn't work that way.
And so like, there's, there's something to be said.
Also, there's something to be said about like good critiques and criticism on the timeline,
but it's like, also it's like, you don't have to always announce stuff like that too.
If you feel that don't feel need to either.
And like, I'm a little more cause I commentate on the space that's out there, but like, you
know, I've unfollowed people recently or blocked people recently who I like.
I had a conversation with Scott over the weekend.
I won't say who is somebody that he knew that he was like, oh yeah, this person, they, you
know, he said a specific thing about them.
Like, oh, how close are you with that person?
He's like, not super close.
I'm like, yeah, I blocked him.
He's kind of an asshole.
And he's like, no, no, no.
He's definitely an asshole.
If you blocked him, you probably made the right decision.
But like in general, like we're either like, it's not like we have to wag me all the time,
but like when you like are unnecessarily looking for reasons to dunk on people to try to make
your bag seem better.
Like there was this whole thing with like gutter cats versus cool cats.
Guess what?
They battled and nobody won.
Like you sat there and you had this huge discussion over.
And again, cool cats are great.
Gutter cats are, I think, putting something together.
It sounds like, but like they sat there and argued who was more important when they were
like both like five, six ETH when ETH was like three, $4,000.
Now they're both down.
I mean, cool cats, I guess, technically won the current battle, but it's like, was your
rivalry because you both have cats really worth that discussion?
Or like, maybe should you both have just been like, hey, meow, let's go.
I don't know.
Like there's just something to be said.
So I think it's an interesting thought.
And like there's this line between wag me and being supportive that I think we all need
to probably think about how we're towing.
Good take.
Let's go circles.
Then we'll go snowflake.
And then we'll probably close it down from there.
Circles, GM.
Hey, GM, GM, everybody.
Can you hear me coming through all right?
Loud and clear.
Perfect.
Yeah.
On the topic of sports balls, interestingly enough, I'm going to bring it to a different
sport.
We heard the fantastic news that the Washington, what are they now, Commanders, no longer is
owned by Daniel Snyder.
Just wish that my grandmother was still around to see it.
Uh, he had her entire basement dedicated to, uh, a lot of time, the Redskins, but yeah,
just a hardcore Washington fan.
And, uh, yeah, good, good news all around there.
Um, I would like them to go back.
Josh Harris group, right?
Who bought, who I, I saw, I knew he sold.
I didn't, uh, same group that owns pretty sure it's the same guy who owns the Sixers and,
uh, yeah, it's Josh Harris and that group that, that bottom.
Um, yeah, they like, no, I know that they're like buddies with, um, like Michael Rubin,
who's like the fanatics guy.
Um, but yeah, like Josh Harris, I think was the, uh, he's like the lead guy there that
if I remember correctly, um, that part of my take, which I listened to, there's a big
commanders fan in there.
My, my big ask would be with the new ownership group.
Maybe this is not, this is a hot take.
I really, really liked the Washington football team.
I thought that was a powerful name.
Like it's actually very cool.
I wish they would get rid of commanders and go back to watch the football team or do like
the hogs and have like a bad-ass hog mascot.
I don't know.
Both of those resonate with me more than commanders, but that's just Washington football team.
I, I'd be curious circles your takes as you seem to be more in the ecosystem.
I think commanders is fucking cool.
What did you think?
Okay.
Let me, let me make it very clear.
I am not into any sports ecosystem.
Dear Lord, my family is.
Um, so on that aspect, I'm coming from a outside perspective almost.
My brother has a very strong stance against commanders.
You can only have one commander, not 13.
So when you have 13 people on the field, that makes absolutely no sense for a name.
Um, so he was initially.
And if you have 13 on the field, then you actually have too, too many players in the field.
So that would be very bad.
Is it 13 or is it?
It's 11, but no, no, it's 11, but it's, I, sorry.
I was just making an off the cuff joke.
Cause I know you're not, you're not sports ball.
This once again shows how much of a sports ball fan I am, uh, that I don't even know
how many people go on the field.
Um, so yeah, that's, that's my take.
I, I think they need a name.
Uh, Washington football team.
Everybody is a football team who's playing in the football leagues of football in America
because it's football.
Um, so I don't think you can just like explain them as the football team.
Um, but yeah, commander is probably not the best hogs.
I'm down for hogs.
That's cool.
Yeah.
Something like that.
Some sort of hogs or I don't know.
Like, I just think it's, uh, yeah.
Magic also a partial owner.
I did not realize that magic Johnson.
There you go.
Love that.
Um, cool beans.
I vote for a football team over commanders for the record.
Yeah.
I think football team is, I just think it's cool.
Reminds me of like a European sort of soccer league, you know, kind of, I don't know.
I dig it, but I know it's not for everybody.
So that's totally fair.
Um, let's go to Snowflake and then we will probably kind of finish out.
Snowflake, GM.
GM, GM.
I'm going to make three points.
Um, you know, super important.
I guess the Celtics won.
Here you go about the sports.
So we have a gigantic influx of, you know, not just tourists, but actually, you know, sport lovers coming to Boston this week.
Um, besides gigantic events that's going to happen this week as well and the next one.
That's amazing.
I had amazing the gym night with the barbecue.
I still have to celebrate like separately, uh, my partial recovery.
I'm very, I'm very happy about it was a separate barbecue.
Didn't know when to do it, but hey, I have two cases of beer I can drink.
So I have to do that.
Um, second thing, um, about contracts and staking.
Like if you look at the Allen friends, you know, they came obviously later than for the ABI club.
So the way they did it, like just by holding Allen friends, you get already coins and you can actually exchange it for physical things.
Uh, you know, there were hotels, there were coffee, there was like discount for goods or goods, like participation and things, you know, couldn't do everything, but definitely got that coffee and a lot of it, which is amazing.
Right.
And I guess it depends like where the contract was done and who did it, um, you know, so it's a good thing.
Like you still have this opportunity, you know, to be licensing things and the contract of staking doesn't affect it, but unfortunately a lot of them do.
Um, so about the licensing with Jenkins DeValle, uh, payment is happening now.
So snapshot was taken last month.
So if you hold an ape and you even don't know about it, that, um, you know, was licensed for that book that we wrote is actually can get that payment, uh, the share of the profits from the licensing.
Do you know how much it's going to be roughly per person and how they're paying it out?
Like, is it USDC?
Is it ETH?
I actually have not.
Yes, because it's like American companies, official American companies that definitely pay in USDC.
And, uh, basically it goes directly to your wallet where you have the assets.
So no, no action needed to be taken is the point.
Like basically you just go there and the only thing you need to do is KYC, you know, for the tax purposes and that's it.
And you get your payment, uh, every two weeks there's a payment.
So if you didn't KYC, no worries, you still can do it.
And if you hold an asset that you didn't know was licensed for the book, uh, last month from last month,
you basically just can go to the page, you know, and check it out by putting an ape number or NFT number from Jenkins the Valet writer's room.
Right.
So basically if you go to Jenkins the Valet writer's room, you log in, is there a place that's very obvious to KYC?
Well, again, you can just check, uh, you know, you can just check if your ape or your NFT from writer's room has the license.
And you basically, when you know it has it and you didn't move it from the wallet from last month, you just KYC, you know, on the page.
They're using an agency for this.
Everything is official, you know, and you get your payment within two weeks.
Oh, cool.
Yeah.
I need to figure out like where I KYC, because I definitely have everything there with multiple associated assets.
I just have, I've, I've been busier.
So I just need to find the KYC page.
Yeah.
The next payment is like, actually was in like two weeks or something.
So they just posted something, uh, from the Jenkins page.
I can pin it later on, but it's pretty cool.
And I like right now, like what else we did is actually the podcast licensing and there was a lot of communities that you can actually submit.
They check if you have full IP rights and you can actually license it, which is pretty amazing.
So that's another thing that's happening.
So they didn't stop working on that.
And if you own the book, you know, that's another cool thing.
Like, like besides, like, if you still hold in a certain amount of time, you get in like a physical limited edition, like you can actually in the future burn it for a Zubala project.
Like, uh, you know, and you can get like, uh, avatar paying like zero zero eight Ethereum, which is pretty cool.
And there's no other way you can actually get this avatar unless somebody like sells it later on, which, you know, can be like simple one or like not unique.
But like with the book, you have this option, maybe getting like something very like specific and unique, you know, with like super traits that other ones don't have.
Uh, plus you can read the book if you have it.
Right.
So you can log in and actually read the entire book on page about all the apes and otherwise you cannot do it because it's like not the public information.
So that's pretty cool.
Um, yeah.
And the other thing I want to mention, I guess, um, you know, definitely, uh, I feel like we shouldn't reward the watch traders.
Like, and the way it's down, like, Hey, we're rewarding the watch traders.
Like with blur, that's not good for the space.
Like we should reward those who like working, you know, like you guys on your characters, you licensing them, you using them.
Like, it's your face like forever, practically, you know, you like, nobody would probably recognize you if you come somewhere with a different PFP, regardless, it's an ape or something else.
But like, you got attached to it.
But not only that is have full IP rights, which is amazing.
Like the only difference, like, I guess that was important before between like, uh, you know, base and maze and base had like an issue was a contract.
And they had to move them before, before frozen metadata.
And with the maze, they didn't have this issue because it's like newer one, which is also like pretty awesome, right?
So you have like that security, like, hey, it's a newer contract, you know, there's like, I feel more safe, even if I don't know all the details.
So it's like, it's pretty awesome that I actually did that before freezing metadata for the, for, you know, for the original collection.
But from the other side, like, you still can get so much different ways to expand your IP, you know, for the game, like you can build it in 3D.
And I'm actually super bullish on VR games.
I love playing them.
I love testing them.
And I love testing the games, you know, like Jacketed was like second layer was watch Optimism to claim NFTs on Polygon was like minimum gas and super fast.
You know, I was in Ethereum, Denver, and I tested it before that.
And actually tested it with like Hypermoon and I played it.
And it was like crazy how many things you can do with full IP rights.
Like, it's just so many projects like, you know, offering things, but they cannot afford full IP rights, PFPs that are awesome.
So like they offer you to actually come or test it or license it in the future, probably, you know, look at the A beverage.
Just look at the, like, different games.
Like, look at, like, your own thing and, like, what else is going to happen in the next, like, five years?
You know, when they're going to already, like, you know, I'm testing some different things with VR besides with my builds and designs.
But, like, I'm on several, like, development projects and also, like, and the different layers that I'm, like, a part of, like, of the conversation and creating.
And what I'm seeing right now, there is going to be another big jump.
Like, I'm looking forward to, like, loop motion in 360, basically working with your VR glasses.
So you don't need any attachments anymore.
You know, I'm looking forward on all this layer 2s, layer 3s, and so on and so on and so on to save on gas because we need, you know, expansion, escalation.
Because with just OpenSea, with just, like, one thing, with just, like, Ethereum, it's not enough to really onboard people where it doesn't cost too much money.
So that's, like, a big jump that is happening right now with all those layer solutions and new developments and new actual coding, which is awesome.
Plus many different languages, which is also incredible.
Very interesting.
I've been, like, deep down in, by the way, like, I'm still deep on this Jenkins Borden Dangerous thing because I went through their tweet.
87.47 per unit.
I saw that.
What I'm struggling with is it looks like you go to BordenDangerous.xyz, you validate with token proof.
I have.
But I don't see where.
It's a bit.ly link.
I'll drop it up above.
Yeah.
It's a bit.ly-bd-fund claim.
It's not on me.
Well, A4 this here, if you can bring him up, he'll explain.
Yeah.
If he's at a place he can talk, that's great.
If not, like, I can do my own sort of, like.
I just dropped it in chat.
The TLDR and then go down to, just open that, the second tweet in that TLDR thread as it includes the link.
It's in the chat.
Because I'm trying to find the TLDR or whatever.
Just DM it to me if you don't mind.
Because as I'm going, I want to be able to make sure I'm participating in this because that's part of what the fun is for me.
Because I did find them that they said soon on BordenDangerous.xyz.
But then when I scroll down, I'm not seeing.
When I go to BordenDangerous, it shows me the book.
It shows me, you know, my whole, like, you know, it shows my wallet.
And then I can go to the writer's room and I can see where my ape is and the pages and stuff.
But I don't see.
So, all the links, actually, if you go to the writer's room, you know, official Twitter account, all the links are there with one click.
And, like, that I think is all the links also in the Discord.
Discord, you know, there's always somebody there, like, if you have any issues or questions.
Like, they have, like, two mods.
And, like, that's a cool thing they're doing.
It's Avenue.
It's, like, another project where you can ask to be a part of if you have, like, a collection.
And it's another, like, cool thing because you can, you know, like, Discord is overrated and it's not very good working.
And many people, like, can't even load it in many spaces because it's not enough, like, Wi-Fi or cellular connection.
So, they created this, like, Avenue platform.
You know, they're testing it.
Like, people can put suggestions and you can actually ask to be a part of it, which is pretty awesome.
But, again, if you already own the NFT, you don't need to ask for it.
You can just go there and become, like, a part of the writer's room.
You know, it's pretty cool.
They do, like, sketches every week.
Like, you can put your survey.
You know, it's a good, like, also place for research if you want to ask questions, right?
For your own platform, even.
It's very cool.
You know, I like what they're doing with Avenue and I've seen and played around with that a little bit and got a preview of it.
It's very cool.
So, no, I'll go to the claim.
I think I've clicked through and now have to answer some survey questions before my agreement and stuff.
But I think I found the right place.
I'm glad you gave a heads up on that because that's something that it's not even about the money.
It's about kind of, like, being able to participate in the first sort of, yeah, participatory storytelling and how that works.
You know, as I understand, it's like you said, you KYC.
And it's almost like they've done enough work to be considered contractors.
So, therefore, you can actually pay them out based on the work that they've rendered.
As I understand, that's how the whole thing works.
So, I'll be playing around on there probably today and later on and getting my stuff on.
But, yeah, good way to end the day with some fun jink and stuff.
That was a fun little full circle thing.
And it's interesting.
It's about $87.
We actually generally were guessing it was going to be about $100 a person.
So, it's right around that range, right?
About $100 a claim on Ape.
And I think a few.
Yeah, plus, minus.
I mean, it depends what's the percentage of your split.
Like, in my case, like, when I was licensing a lot of Apes, like, some of them, like,
shall I license, shall I not?
Like, but can you, like, do a story for me?
I'm like, sure.
Like, from zero.
And they, like, completely trusted me because I already did a couple stories for others.
And there was, like, word was going on, like, around.
And, like, you know, even some of them contacted me and I didn't have, like, NFTs left.
And I'm like, listen, like, I don't have nothing left, like, to license you.
But, listen, like, I can write a story for you.
And let's work on it.
And, like, you'll be surprised how many of those stories actually made to the other projects.
You know, like, if you see, like, ape primates, like, the ones that go in with the robes in New York.
Like, the stories that happened there, you know, the comic collaboration with Jenkins.
You know, like, those stories actually came from very, very beginning.
So, that's pretty awesome.
And seeing those stories in other projects.
Like, think about even Bored Abyad Club.
You have this foxy dog, right?
Where the hell the dog came from?
The look like a fox was the key.
Like, the original key, you know, comes from Jenkins.
And you have the good boy, you know, going around the Bored Abyad Club and those bananas, you know.
Like, when people, like, hear the storytelling, they get excited.
And they're, like, they want to do something.
And when you have this little opportunity to actually open up somebody's mind and, you know, give them this kind of little push.
Like, you can do it, you know.
And they start to be this creative person that you know they are.
So many things, like, happening.
Like, it's incredible.
Like, the time we're living right now.
And during the bear market, you really see bad actors and you really see good projects.
So it's, like, a perfect timing to really, like, get into something that you're really passionate about.
Sorry, sticky mute button there on my end.
I was trying to come.
I started.
I thought I unmuted and was, like, actually talking.
And here we are.
So, no, it's great.
I appreciate you bringing it up.
And I think that it's a, you know, like, we'll see.
Like, and this is also an expectations thing where it's, like, you know, people bought to be part of a project.
I know people paid a lot of money for certain parts of that project.
But it's, like, a cool thing where it's, like, you're part of, like, like, I think a lot of people are, like, oh, my God.
I'm going to make all this money licensing my ape and it's going to go to the moon and all the other things.
And I think expectations, why, what it turned into is do you want to participate in collaborative storytelling?
I mean, Drew Crit's a really good example from our, you know, from the DJ Network War Room.
I mean, Drew wrote one of the short stories about one of his, you know, I was one of the judges.
And he wrote a great short story where they had, like, very specific, you know, directions about a short story about your PFP.
And he told a really good one.
And, like, I think, you know, that sort of stuff is really cool.
So I love the direction we're going with this stuff.
And I like the, just in general, the, you know, the overall flow.
So it's cool being part of the participatory storytelling and something that I think we'll continue to look at for a long time.
And I think what they're building out with Avenue is really cool and is sort of, like, not a Discord replacement, but, like, a Discord add-on.
It's something I know we're looking at potentially for, like, a Coffee with Captain thing where it's, hey, if we all have a PO app and we token gate the forum,
if people aren't in DJ Network and they use the PO app to get there instead, like, they don't need to pay, you know, $400 to get a DJ Network pass because not everybody that's, you know,
I've heard people say it's not sustainable to, you know, build up and get that sort of thing.
And so.
Exactly.
And now think about all the derivatives that can come from that book, right?
Like, if it keeps going, like, if there's keep, like, people keep participating.
Now think about all the derivatives.
So whenever you, like, license your ape or other PFP, if the derivative comes out because the opportunity shows up, you keep getting the money just for, like, licensing one time, which is awesome.
Yeah, I think it's good.
I mean, I think it's cool.
So I'm excited to see kind of, like, the platform and how it builds out from the software they've done.
So it's a very, very cool concept that I'm excited about.
And I'm definitely going to mess around with my claim tomorrow.
Let's go to Loop and then we will finish it out.
Hey, I'll let you close it out.
I just saw something interesting.
You guys maybe covered this last week.
But ER721-C looking like potentially programmable royalties.
And I pinned a tweet from Hunter Soler up there that I think is super interesting.
I just saw this.
I was kind of out of pocket last week.
So I don't know if anybody saw that.
But it seems, like, pretty game-changing just reading through it now.
But it seems pretty crazy.
Yeah.
We'll have to check it out.
Maybe a topic for another day.
Very cool.
So that said, good discussion this morning.
I know we covered a lot of different grounds.
Like I said, like, to me, I'm continually interested in the direction this space is going and sentiment.
And I think right now sentiment is very low, understandably so.
And it's interesting watching how people react to that.
It's definitely interesting watching people navigate that, for sure.
That said, yeah, I am going to roll out.
I'm going to get my – I've got a – I think I now have a clean copy of the book.
I think it's probably 250 pages book-wise, 105 pages in Word currently that are all written and ready to rock that I'm sending around to people.
So I've got to create some forks, send them around.
Very excited to get this to our editor.
This is, like, a big milestone in this whole process.
Like, we're getting very, very close to pre-sale.
So I'm very excited about that.
So, yeah.
So with that said, looking forward to working into the VCon week.
We will figure out who's hosting tomorrow.
I think I got a text from Bunchu I just saw that says he can probably host Wednesday,
which means I will probably take him up on that to host either from his or the DGEN handle, and we can go from there.
With that said, hope everybody had a good time this morning.
Thanks for sticking with us.
We will see you bright and early at 8 a.m. tomorrow morning and this week at VCon.
Have a wonderful, wonderful week, everybody.
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