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Collab🤝Community: Spotlight on Security with Delegate Cash
Recorded: Feb. 9, 2023 Duration: 1:00:49Space Recording
Full Transcription
GMGM.
We are just getting ready to kick things off.
If we give us just a minute to get everybody in here.
Looking forward to this conversation for sure.
All righty, and it looks like we have everybody in who we need to be in and up on the space.
So this is good stuff.
This is good.
I think we are about ready to kick off.
And so with that being said, let's do the introduction first.
So we are here today to have another episode of Collab Community with a spotlight on security
with Delegate Cash.
This is super duper exciting.
And we have on the Collabland side, Anjali, who is one of the co-founders and the CCO of
Abridged.io, the creator of Collabland.
The mission of Abridged is to make the promises of blockchain and decentralization a reality
by bringing usability to Web3, empowering devs to build a better Web3, and giving everyone
access to build applications using blockchain technology.
Anjali has been a strong champion of this mission, and it's great to have her here.
Additionally, I know that we'll be seeing some of our team members in the audience, so we
will – I'll give them a nudge so that way they can join in here as well, and we'll
be excited to have them.
I think Raymond, our CTO, should be joining, and he is – he's the CTO and co-founder and
an absolute passionate advocate for security.
On the Delegate Cash side, we're honored to be joined by their – members of their
team representing Delegate Cash today.
We have the amazing Lunam, and also – Lunam, sorry, I will try my best to do pronunciations,
but if you could correct me when you did there, that would be super helpful.
And also, Fubar, so we have experts in DeFi and NFT founders, and Fubar is also a dev writer
and auditor, according to the Twitter profile, but we know that both of these individuals
do so much more, and we're looking forward to learning more about them.
As many of you in the audience may know, Delegate Cash is a non-custodial secure sign-in tool.
So, this means that you – when you have valuable assets in your wallet, you can keep
them safe, but also easily use them to prove ownership.
So, keeping in mind that, you know, it's still your keys, it's still your crypto.
This is an amazing resource to enable people to interact without risking their valued assets.
So, thank you so much for joining us today, and it looks like, oh, we have Ryshrimp here
as well from the Delegate Cash team.
So, very exciting, and if you'd like to join us on stage, I will – you put in the request,
and I will pull you up here.
So, as a couple of points to note before we kick off the conversation, we have a couple
of security threads that our very own I Speak Nerd created for the community, and as those
are coming out during the space, I'm going to pin them, so that way people can review
them as we're having this conversation.
And we will have a POAP to celebrate today as well, which will go live at 2.25 p.m.
Eastern Time, and be available for a span of 20 minutes.
So, there will be a secret word, which means if you have the app, you will open it at the
appointed time, enter the secret code, which we will release at the end of the space, and
to be able to mint your own bit of nostalgia from this amazing session.
So, with all of that being said, I know I have a long intro, and I appreciate your patience.
Let's get started by getting a little bit of the backstory for each of our Delegate Cash
guests.
So, if you could please give the audience some insight into your Web3 journeys, I think that
would set a really good stage for how it is that Delegate Cash came to be.
Perfect.
I can kick things off.
So, I've been, I'd say, active across both the DeFi and the NFT space for quite a while,
which gives a unique perspective on, like, what people are, and the NFT space, I think,
tends to lag behind DeFi by about 6 to 12 months, which is kind of funny to watch.
But I noticed that you had a ton of inbound interest, a ton of excitement around NFTs.
It was onboarding the masses.
Everybody was in, but people didn't quite have deep technical understanding of how crypto
wallets work.
And so, they kept getting hacked.
The famous meme was, help, all my apes gone.
And I was trying to think if it happened, if this happens to one or two people, maybe that's,
you know, user error.
But on the 10th or 20th or 30th person who's losing millions of dollars, they clearly care
deeply about this.
The infra just isn't there to protect them.
So, started brainstorming around what kind of product would help protect new people, but
in a crypto-native way that still preserves all the advantages and necessary rights of
decentralization.
So, a little bit of an intro.
Hey, everyone.
My name's Manam Wasi.
I, you know, haven't been in sort of professionally in crypto for as long as FUBAR has been, but
have been there for a little while.
In a past life, I was a computational researcher sort of working on biomed problems, and my
sort of exposure to crypto at large was mostly through trading crypto, which I had been doing
for years and years and years.
But it's pretty fun to sort of, you know, having been on chain, it pretty much became apparent
that, like FUBAR said, the infrastructure wasn't necessary.
And what really drew me to Delegate Cash was, I'm obsessed with this idea of the standard
stack of crypto.
This idea that, like, can you build something that everyone on Earth is going to use?
And, you know, Delegate Cash seems like, hopefully, a pretty good bet to that, if we're able to
sort of realize our visions of better security and better experiences for everyone.
So, here we are.
Amazing.
And thank you both so much for a little bit of background, because that's helpful, as,
you know, so many people have these varying journeys into Web3 and, you know, kind of
nonlinear paths that even if you, you know, had not been here from the start, the fact
that you have, you know, other expertise that you can bring in and leverage is super valuable.
And so, you know, maybe that leads us to the next question, wondering how it is that you
ended up syncing up and, you know, kind of founding Delegate Cash.
Yeah, great question.
Initially, off the start, I didn't think this would, didn't think this would grow as big
as it did.
I was in a couple, a couple Telegram and Discord group chats.
I mean, when I first threw out the idea publicly, everyone said, this is amazing, 1,000 retweets.
We need it, we need it clearly.
But then you realize it's like the classic XKCD, right?
There are 10 standards.
We need to unify them.
Now there are 11 standards.
And so that was the failure case I really wanted to avoid happening.
There were already a bunch of disjointed approaches to tackling the problem, but nothing that really
worked for everybody.
So I tried to just explore and talk with as many different people who were tackling the
problem from different angles as possible and incorporate their feedback into developing
the smart contract.
There are, it seems like a simple approach, but there are so many different ways that,
so many different conflicting ways that people have dreamed up to potentially do this.
So, yeah, worked very hard on kind of getting, I'd say, cohesion.
Inner agreement on what's the common set of features that would satisfy as many people as
possible without sacrificing the simplicity that's necessary for anything to become a standard.
And, I mean, great efforts of many, many other people got the registry up and running
and live and then realized very quickly that it's not enough to just put good tech out
into the world.
I think you have to build out amazing supporting experiences and just help teach people about
This is an entirely new primitive.
It's not like, here's a new DEX.
Everybody knows what a DEX is.
Delegation, you're kind of inventing a process for the first time yourself.
And that's where I started talking with Munam.
I mean, super, super impressed with both the vision he saw, how well he's able to communicate
it and how helpful he is to everyone, everyone trying to use it and decided to team up and
make this even bigger.
Yeah, you know, my story is pretty similar.
I hadn't really sort of considered delegations until I heard rumors of, you know, another
delegation standard being built up.
But when I sort of read it and I looked at it, you know, the thing that clicked in my
mind was, oh, this is something that I actually understand.
And just going from there, I think slid into FUBAR's DMs and the rest is sort of history.
We, we've just been talking about it and I think it's all about simplicity for us.
You know, a lot of the other code bases are 10x bigger than ours.
You know, they may even be more feature rich and do more than what we do, but we're focused
on end user experience.
And I think that's sort of been the X factor so far.
That's really funny listening to Munam say that you slid into his DMs because as you know,
the reason we started all of this is because I sent you a DM or I sent a DM to Delegate
Cash.
So I just love the way that it kind of works that way, how easy it is for us to all get
together and people that are like similarly minded and similarly focused, like we don't
have that friction point of like looking up someone's email on a website and or sending
them a LinkedIn message like it literally happened within moments.
You know, what's what's sort of funny about working in crypto so far is that you'd think
that would sort of be the gold standard.
But oftentimes it's so hard to get in touch with people, even if you, you know, hunt down
their community channels and try to sort of work through, you know, like different layers
of people.
It's funny how lots of crypto projects have a lot of bureaucracy now and it's almost
impossible to get things done.
And I think we've always kept a very, you know, everyone is welcome approach.
Anybody who messages us, you know, we message them back.
We sort of reply to all tweets and everything.
And I think that's actually like the bare minimum of how to get things done in this space.
You can't just build something and assume people will come.
You have to also go to people, especially those people that are interested in any capacity,
whether it's like through the lens of skepticism or through the lens of like optimism.
Yeah, love that.
I mean, that's one of the things that we learned early on with Collabland, like I was running
the support team for over a year and a half.
And it's like we would get support questions like, look, can you help me with this?
Because I've submitted a ticket to Project X and I've done it five times and no one's
responding and I still need help.
So absolutely.
I think that's a great message to kind of spread all across the ecosystem here, which is
like reply to people, help people, support people, get in there.
You know, make yourself known we need it.
And I think the more we talk about it and during this conversation, we'll see how much
more we need it in terms of education.
But thanks.
I really love that you were open about that.
You know, I know on Twitter I said, hey, I'm reaching out, reached out, immediately got
in touch.
I think we may have had a meeting that day.
So that was awesome.
It is amazing to hear how quickly this has progressed.
And I know that it's only been a couple of weeks, which is really an interesting thing,
right?
Because one of the questions that I was going to ask, you know, was going to be what made
you focus on safety and security.
But FUBAR mentioned that early on, like having people, you know, who, you know, not just one
or two people who've lost assets, but many people who are having, you know, this, these
issues with the technology that we're using on a daily basis.
So more than asking about, you know, why you did this, but, you know, what, what do you
think made it possible to gain so much traction so quickly and, you know, to what do you credit
that success?
Because, you know, one of the things, and maybe it's, you know, kind of a hot topic, but, you
know, one of the risks is that it's still signing a message.
So how are you able to, you know, create this standard that makes it so people are able to
safely transact?
Yeah, two, yeah, two, two great points on the, I'll tackle the last one first.
How is this safe if you're still signing a message from your vault?
If there are always going to be tail risks of, I went to a phishing site, but the goal
of delegate cash is that you make one, you make one delegation once and like in a non,
non rushed, carefully considered way.
And then because it's on chain, it's, it's a readable transaction compared to a, a signature
that people might not know what they're signing.
And then it's reusable forever.
So whereas the status, the status quo is I have 20 airdrops, I need to go connect to my
wallet to, I need to connect my vault to 20 different websites.
Any one of them could be a scam.
I have to be super careful.
I, I might only have five or 10 minutes to mint.
So I don't, so I have to choose between either giving up free money or blind minting something
from my vault.
So, and then you're doing this 20 times over and over again, like spread, spread out through, spread
out through time.
And maybe you're not at your peak mental focus or performance during one of those and you
mess up.
Compare that with the experience of delegate cash.
You can go in, you can research delegate, you can ensure you're on the right website.
You can click through to the ether scan verified contract.
And then you just make one transaction, it's reusable forever.
So you're making one vault transaction compared to 20 or 30 and, and it stays on chain.
So it's, so while, I mean, I can't think of a way where you could verify vault ownership
with zero transactions, but I think it's far better than the status quo.
You know, I think just to add on onto this, I think we've also worked really, really hard
on trying to educate people about the differences between different types of transactions.
So if you look at our Twitter, one of the things that we say all the time is, you know, there's
no transfer function.
And that's like a really important point over here, you know, down to the contract design
itself, there is no ability for us to touch your assets in any way.
You should think of delegate cash, like gaining read only access to a vault, wherein we just
understand like the mappings and relationships between, you know, your assets and your cold
storage and your assets and how you want to, you know, enable them in your hot wallet.
So we tell people, it's still your keys.
It's still your crypto.
We just allow other projects to give you this flexibility.
We're not in the business of touching and holding people's assets.
It's non-custodial security.
That's right.
And that's really the point here is you're thinking about it, you're doing it the first
time.
And then every future time you want to connect everywhere, you can still use this hot wallet.
And that's really why we were like, oh, this makes a lot of sense.
And our CTO who isn't on yet, I don't know if he is or not, I can't tell.
Um, and James also co-founder is here.
Uh, that's the same idea, which is you're signing once and then you can continue to reuse
And what you're saying, which is when people are minting, especially on mint sites, I
don't know if we're going to get into scams, but my first scam was a fake mint site and
boy, I could have used delegate cash there.
So it's one time thoughtful signing, and then you can reuse that wallet over and over.
And that's the same model that Collabland has as well.
So definitely plus one to all of that.
And just one sort of final point is, you know, we encourage people to undelegate all
the time and redelegate to a new wallet.
So, you know, we're all about, um, active threat mitigation, but as you said, and the,
you know, underlying level, um, people are just, I think have a, a sense of relief that
they can go out and have fun.
And I mean, we've seen some really cool community enabled experiments.
Um, there's this board ape guy, Tropho Farmer is sort of one of the most famous and biggest
board apes.
And he quite literally, and, and, you know, we hadn't talked to him beforehand about this,
but he tweeted out the private key to a wallet that had had a sewer pass, um, delegated
to it, you know, this theoretical seven, eight ETH valued asset and said, anyone that wants
to try the game, you know, feel free to have fun.
Just add this private key.
That's, you know, the one thing that everyone I think knows is not to share your private
keys, but he was able to share, you know, a delegated wallet, a delegated wallets address
for a really, really valuable asset, because he knew there's no risk of that asset being
lost.
That's so fun.
I love that, that the playfulness of that.
And that's the whole point, right?
Like you never know where people with interoperability, you just don't know where people's imaginations
are going to go.
So that's so exciting.
I love that story.
That's, that's an amazing story.
And I will say like, personally, I've used, uh, delegate cash for not only claiming, you
know, or interacting with my sewer pass and being able to play the game, but also being
able to claim, you know, my doodles duplicator, like being able to do these things without
having to interact with my vault every single time has been such an amazing relief because
man, like it's, it's kind of a bummer to have to plug it in and then go, oh my gosh,
like, can I triple check and make sure this is really the site?
And hopefully it wasn't, you know, a compromised account that linked the site in the first place.
So it's, it's been amazing for sure.
And I love that, you know, you've created this way for people to interact in the space
with less concern about, you know, if I do this, what am I putting at risk?
Well, it's not everything now.
And that's great.
You know, um, we've say a lot that we want to make crypto fun again and, and we really,
really mean it because whether you're a newcomer or you're like a jaded veteran in crypto, I
think everyone knows that you should basically to keep yourself safe, you should be a little
bit paranoid and you should be less involved in claiming airdrops or governance just because
the UI UXs are first of all, risky oftentimes.
And number two, um, they're just kind of annoying wallet delegation unlocks a lot.
It means that you can, you know, have basically one central place to manage a lot of different
assets and use them in a lot of different places without having to, you know, custom send
assets to a new wallet and then move them back into cold storage, et cetera.
So we'd really like to see, I think the space expand because now, you know, people can participate
in governance a lot easier.
Um, you know, people are going to be much more likely to use collab land and other products
like collab land to, you know, join communities now just because they know that they like forget
security.
It'll be just a whole lot less annoying to verify that you own things now.
So we're totally excited to see, I think the community angle of crypto, I think make another
second big leap.
Oh, that's so true.
And it's really about meeting our users where they are, our members that are joining where
they are.
And now with all of these scams, we hear about the fake mint sites, the fake wallet drainers
or the connections.
It's like people are getting more and more afraid and as they should be, as we see these
stories come out all the time.
I mean, you mentioned how this is the reason why you even got involved in this space, Boobar.
It's true.
Every single week we hear about some other big, um, whale in the crypto NFT communities that
you would think would not be susceptible.
We can't blame just not knowing anymore because sometimes even when you know, and you should know,
it's still so easy to fall to prey to any of these scams.
They've gotten so good and they're moving at double speed now because of all the valuable
assets in this space.
So it is a lot more fun and it is a lot more, um, available for everybody.
All the people that are afraid of signing messages with Clubland or with anywhere else, like it
is now being able to connect with a wallet that doesn't have any assets.
Like what a dream.
Um, yeah, exactly.
And I think it touches both ends of the spectrum in an interesting way.
Um, there's the, the obvious use case is like, I introduced grandma to crypto and she's going
to lose her board ape.
But then on the other end of the spectrum, you also have what I'd call sophisticated institutional
participants that are hamstrung, not from a lack of knowledge, but from a lack of reliable
infra.
I mean, you look at the, look at the A16Z governance vote for Uniswap, for example, they, I think
it, it would have gone the way of layer zero instead of wormhole, except the coins were stuck
so deep in custody.
They weren't able to get them out in time.
And so a portfolio company ended up losing probably the biggest message passing integration of
quite some time.
Um, whereas, and I mean, it, it makes sense if you have tens of millions of dollars and
a fiduciary duty to protect those that they need to be locked away.
But there are also low and medium value interactions that you want to still participate in, whether
that's, whether that's governance, whether that's airdrop, airdrops, whether that's gaming.
And by, by virtue of being on chain, immutable, permissionless, um, delegate cash opens up
a lot of avenues for what I'd call sophisticated institutions as well.
And I would say one more thing that I think is really critical to our approach is that,
you know, delegate cash is free infrastructure for everyone.
It's, it's, it's a public good.
And we really mean that, you know, there's, there's no ability for us to magically
you know, change the numbers and, and go from 0% fee to like 1% fee, you know, trust me,
it would be really, really nice if we could, but we can't, and we've submitted, or we've
helped submit EIP 5639 to that effect, because we're all about building standards that other
people can build on top of, because there's a really virtuous cycle over here.
Um, you know, the, the collab land people, they reached out to us to integrate with us.
Um, but it's not like, you know, they had to pay for it or anyone had to pay for it.
You know, this is public tooling and we find new projects all the time that have never talked
to us that have integrated it.
And I think, um, just giving people that sense of security that they can use stuff and, and
know it's in it for the long haul, I think is, um, really, really important.
You know, collab land is one of the integrations that we were the most excited about.
And it was sort of one of the first ones that we always wanted from the beginning.
Um, just because we knew that, you know, the, the collab land people basically enabled the
off chain social layer of crypto at large, you know, discord exploded so much because
collab land let communities form in discords and telegrams and all sorts of other places.
Um, but you know, they've sort of, um, that's why the scammers keep trying to impersonate
collab land that, you know, they were never able to break collab land.
So they kept trying to impersonate it.
And I think now it's really, really cool to be able to basically do away with all of that
because you always know that you can sign in with delegate cash and, and, you know, the
scammers wouldn't allow you to sign in with delegate cash because you know, that it removes
their ability to scam you.
That's right.
And that's exactly it.
It's like, we want to meet our members where they are.
And since we started in May of 2020, the industry has changed.
The ecosystem has changed.
The number of people that are here have changed.
Oh my gosh, that bull run of 2021 was crazy.
It was a fire hose of people just coming at us constantly.
And then when they would say like, oh, collab land scammed me.
And we'd say that was a fake bot.
This is how you verify it's the real bot.
Who was that a challenge?
And so getting people to stop and say, what is this?
Should I sign it?
Should I not sign it?
Is it impersonator?
Is it not an impersonator?
Delegate cash completely removes that opportunity.
So it's like, once you sign in with that, you don't have to be afraid.
And I think that's the missing piece here, right?
Is the education piece.
And how do we crack that education piece?
Like you're doing it in order to have you in that spot where if only now we have to educate
people to get to delegate cash first.
But once we do that, then we're in business because now they can maybe let their guard
down a little bit more and have a little bit more fun and not have to be so critical,
even though, of course, you should be.
But it's like, is it real?
Is it not real?
Well, even if you're signing it, you're signing it with a wallet that doesn't have any assets.
So, yeah, I think that's fantastic.
Thank you, Munam.
We have also pinned in the spaces here the tweet that has a link to the Medium article.
So if you want to know how to, you know, delegate a wallet within Collabland, this is going to be your
resource because this is really exciting for sure.
And definitely something that, you know, as we've heard throughout this conversation,
is a really synergistic relationship because, you know, delegate cash makes it so you don't
have to, you know, use your cold wallet to sign things in Collabland.
And, you know, the way it works is once you sign and attest, essentially, that you own
this wallet, like that's all it's doing.
It's linking your Discord account or your Telegram account to a wallet and saying, yes,
this one does in fact own it at the end.
You know, you do that once.
So now you're able to do these two things, you know, a single time and be covered no matter
where it is you're going community-wise.
And that's really exciting as, you know, a collaboration.
And you can connect to multiple delegate cash or hard wallets or asset holding wallets where
you are in one community and you can use one of your delegated wallets to verify in that
community.
And then you can, if you're in another community, you can use another wallet.
So really, the delegate cash system is a registry that's available to Collabland and to all the
other partners that are using it.
And so it's just a really seamless way for people to decide and control what wallets they
want to verify with without having any relationship at all.
And it's just, even though we also are a read-only application, all we get to see is your public
wallet address.
We have no access to any of your assets.
I feel like I've been saying that for years, but yes, we have no access to anything.
It is just a message signing.
Like Candy was saying, you're just attesting that you own that wallet when you sign a Collabland
message.
But now you can just say, attest that you own that delegate cash wallet.
And then we are able to see what wallets are connected to that delegate cash wallet.
And you get to choose as a member which one you want to verify with.
So it's an easy, seamless situation now, integration now.
And look at that tweet at the top that's pinned.
And so you can get the directions.
I wrote them.
So hopefully they make sense.
And if they don't, DM me.
My DMs are open too.
Perfect.
And it looks like we have Forever Punks in the crowd has raised their hand and may have
a question.
So let's pull them on stage and see what they've got for us.
Forever Punks, you should have the ability now to connect and share your question.
We are connecting.
So while we do that, if other people as well have questions, feel free to put up the request
as well.
So that way we can get people in.
And while we're waiting for them to connect, we could pose the next question as well.
Looks like we may have lost Forever Punks.
Oh, they're connecting again.
But the next question, I'm going to put it out there to our panel is, you know, and you
can noodle on this a little bit.
But, you know, since you all have this strong focus on security, you know, which is something
that Collabland really prioritizes and now is doing that much more publicly.
You know, from all the teams, like, what are some of the biggest challenges for Web3 security?
So I will ask that.
We will get Forever Punks up here.
And once they're done, you know, this is something we can come back.
Yeah, I would say that security problems mostly manifest in, like, forms of bad UI and UX.
I mean, like, let's be honest, or at least I'll be honest, every single time I send even
100 USDC to my Coinbase account, I'm still a little bit sketched out every single time
over, you know, whether or not I've done it correctly or not.
Oh, my God, I did that this afternoon.
No, exactly.
It's meant to sort of be it.
Well, it feels scary.
And I don't think it has to feel scary.
And I think it's about inspiring confidence in people, you know, not reckless confidence,
but I think confidence around knowing what security solution works for you and sort of
sticking to that.
I think predictability is a really important thing.
And as the space has been around for a little bit over a decade now, I'm glad that we're
finally starting to be able to work towards predictability a little bit.
I think that is the one constant that will really elevate security.
And, you know, we're seeing this in real time.
I see I'm on our Twitter all the time and I see so many now, not just, you know, projects
saying they want to use delegate cash, but users saying they want to use delegate cash.
I actually feel a little bit bad for all of these different projects because, you know,
they're bag holders who have delegated other assets and have realized basically the value
of that experience are subtweeting them every single time they announce, you know, an airdrop
or something and saying, can we mint with a delegate wallet?
That is definitely a very relatable, you know, concern and a challenge for sure.
And ForeverPunks is ready, so we will leave the floor to you.
Hey guys, good evening.
Thank you for having me on.
Yeah, I'm a big fan of delegate cash.
I delegated my own wallet.
But next week I'll have a use case that I might want to use delegate cash for.
And that's why I wouldn't want to ask this question.
I want to do an airdrop to 120 wallets of token holders of mine.
But those wallets, most of them, they are in vaults.
So they probably won't, you know, like want to touch the airdrop itself.
Is there like a quick and easy way to see if any of those 120 wallets have like a delegated wallet?
So in terms of, for each individual, we're actually rolling out a way to see for a hot wallet
what, if it has any delegates and how many and so on.
That should be live shortly.
On top of that, for the broader spectrum, there might be some Dune Analytics scripts
that let you just do an easy conversion of like plug in this CSV of vaults
and see how many have hot wallets.
But regardless, I mean, the integration can go live.
And then if people have them, they can use it.
And if they don't, then they could default to the standard method.
Yeah, interesting.
Because I'll be doing the airdrop through Manifold.
I don't know if you guys maybe are in contact with them to maybe, I don't know,
enable a solution through Manifold that, you know, you can click a box to airdrop
to delegated wallet instead of their main wallet, something like that.
Yeah, working very, I know the Manifold team has been working on the integration.
Up to them to share the timeline.
But I think that is coming sooner rather than later.
So I'm super excited for that.
Yeah, super cool.
That would be amazing.
ForeverPunk, if you want to do some scripting, you can call the get delegates by delegate function.
And that'll give you a list of all the delegations that that vault has delegated to.
Okay, is this somewhere in the documentations you could, like, DM me or share?
Sure.
I love that a Manifold integration is coming.
That's one way that I stay safe, going back to that safety question, which is, like, how do you remain safe?
The way I do it is I know my trusted websites that I'm using.
And so whenever I'm minting with Manifold, I'm like, okay, let me make sure I double check that it's the same website.
And so I've been limiting myself from all these open editions to just stick with Manifold.
So that's one way I do it.
But when I see other ones coming out on other platforms, I'm like, oh, I can't do it.
I'm going to wait.
I have my trusted one, and especially when I'm doing this, like, in the middle of 10 other things, like, now I'm going to just sign up for delegate cash and not have to worry about it.
But initially it was like, ooh, Manifold.
Okay, this is one I can trust and all the fun stuff's happening here.
You know, just sort of one more point to add on to that.
I think we've been working behind the scenes on reaching out to not just, obviously, you know, other projects, but also other places where people sort of touch a security layer like hardware wallets and working on removing blind signing.
So that even if, you know, you know it's a delegate cash contract, you know, it's still a little bit scary and a little bit annoying from a, like, manual process to check every single digit of the contract address with, you know, any other contract address and documentation.
So we're chatting with a lot of the hardware wallet companies about, you know, every single time the delegate cash contract is recognized, you get the words delegate cash on your little device or screen or monitor somewhere, in addition to the actual contract address itself, just to make things easier for everyone.
Also, while we're, you know, here talking about, you know, not just the challenges, but also, you know, given, I guess, the foundation of where delegate cash came from, you know, the fact that these, you know, exposures to risk are so very frequent that multiple people, you know, every day are, you know, being targeted.
Um, what, but there's also like super high profile phishing or hacking events that we've seen recently, you know, looking at best practices to help people stay safe.
And while we do that, I'm going to invite our next guest up so we can answer that question.
We'll get them on stage and then they will ask a question.
Yeah, so best, best practices on just the general general front, I think, I think still evolving, but what, what I aim for is wallet siloing.
Um, there are, I figured out that I don't want to rely on being super attentive all the time.
I just want things set up so that my default flow can't harm me.
Um, so what that means, I mean, it's, it's very simple.
It's been repeated ad nauseum, but have a, have a cold wallet, have a separate hot wallet, only use, um, use the hot wallet for the daily driver.
Don't store too much in it.
Um, you can also get fancy on a, you can get fancy with a Gnosis safe multi-sig.
You can, um, you can use a separate, a separate machine or a separate browser or a separate browser profile so you don't get overlapping extensions.
Also for security, I would say, um, I'd love the opinion of the delegate cache people of browser extensions.
We have a couple of browser extensions that are coming up that are going to be, uh, integrating Cloudland.
Now with Cloudland, when you sign a message, it's human readable.
We have a lot of different safety features.
So, you know, you're dealing with the real Cloudland.
Of course, this doesn't protect people who don't know what the real Cloudland looks like, but I know that we've tweeted about it.
So definitely check out the security thread today about exactly how Cloudland works and how to look out for all the safety features to make sure you're interacting with the real Cloudland.
But other than that, it's like browser extensions.
We talk about this last one that came out, which was the Kevin Rose one.
If he had installed a browser extension that tells you what exactly you're signing, then is that that might be something that is a solution here, or at least maybe not a solution.
But let's think of it as like a first aid kit, right?
Or a preventive first aid kit.
So you're kind of walking around crypto with it to make sure that you're doing everything you can to keep yourself protected.
And also delegate cash.
And the main one for me, and the main one when I'm out with people at conferences, it's most of the stories that come out about scams are just plain FOMO, which is I do know what it looks like.
I am aware of the situation.
I do know what I'm supposed to be looking for, but I still didn't.
And so that moment, if we could somehow meme that into the culture, which is like, take a beat, take five minutes, take a couple of minutes, nothing is worth losing all your assets for because we're all out here kind of experimenting together.
And so how do we do that?
Like, how do we get that FOMO mindset out of the space?
And I thought with the bear market, it might do it.
But as you can see, I don't know, I mean, with NFTs taking off the way they are right now in the early 2023, like, I'm wondering about the bear market.
So it's definitely not stopping people from coming into this space.
Does anybody here or maybe FUBAR or Munum or even Candy, like, have any ideas about that or ways you've talked about it that maybe have reached some ears and changed some minds?
How do we do that?
One other quick point to answer about the security thing, Ryshrimp recently shipped better support for ENSs on, you know, the delegate cash front end.
So it should make it a lot easier if someone is accustomed to using, like, ENS subdomains for their wallet hygiene purposes to, you know, interact that way.
And let's get, we had pulled up Aish to the stage and we'll give them a chance to ask a question as well.
Thanks for having me, guys.
Thanks for giving me the mic.
Yeah, so fantastic space so far.
And yeah, I'm not really sure what section of teams is here in spaces, but I have a couple of questions which are, which you can basically segment into, like, user interface, adoption, the technical side and according side.
So the first thing I will go is, like, the whole time I was hearing is you were saying, like, collab line, collab line, collab line, right?
So when it comes to crypto, right, we are all here for the mass adoption, all care about, you know, getting maximum people on board.
But collab line is like a layer three, right?
It's like a layer three that people get introduced after a very long journey into crypto, right?
So one thing I was wondering if, like, you know, how do you get, like, you know, the front layer?
Because obviously, if someone comes to really good cash, right, they come to you and obviously your bounce rate will be pretty high because they see all these technical terms and, like, linking your wallet and linking those communities.
And you're like, you know what, I'll just check it out later.
So your bounce rate will be pretty high.
So how do you deal with problems like, you know, getting the layer zero users on board rather than, you know, focusing on users that are strictly on layer three?
Well, with collab line, I'll give you a little background.
In order to join a collab line community, you have a token.
And so you've somehow acquired a token, either an NFT or a fungible token.
And so you already have a wallet.
So we're not necessarily dealing from in that zero to one space.
Collab line is a tool to join a tokenized community.
So if you want to join that community, of course, you can join and not verify with collab line.
And we absolutely recommend all of our communities have a general chat area.
So community or new members, prospective members can come and check out that community.
But by the time you're introduced to collab line, you've already acquired a wallet and you've already acquired a token.
And that's why you're now joining a tokenized community.
So just to give you a little bit of insight into specifically collab line, I don't know if delegate cash wants to answer that question as well.
I think there's one thing that we can say and that we built delegate cash very forward looking in mind.
You know, we sort of believe in this future where there's like a better paradigm out there than, you know, hardware wallets or multi-sigs.
And, you know, things will become basically more intuitive.
And sure, that relies on optimism, but that also relies on understanding that progress will be made just because the current user interface and sort of user experience is suboptimal.
So whenever that future is there, you know, this world in which there's better account aggregation and better account abstraction,
I think, you know, the delegation tooling is sort of this middle ground stopgap.
But until then, you know, that's why education and spaces like this are so important and is making sure that, you know, we go away from just technical terms and we try to use, you know, simple phrases that anyone can understand.
That's really awesome to hear.
That's right.
And that's one thing.
When Collabland, initially when we started, they weren't human readable messages.
But over time, I think within the first year, we moved to human readable messages.
And we really want the entire ecosystem to start asking that question.
When you come across a message that's not human readable, stop and ask.
You know, there should be some way to contact the project and demand it.
We all should be demanding human readable messages.
And so, Ayush, that's a really great question.
How do you deal with people that don't already have that experience or maybe that already do but aren't paying attention or wanting to decode every single hexagonal string?
It's that we're going to want to push forward into human readable messages.
And that's not going to happen unless there's a demand for it.
Just like Munam and Fubar mentioned, like people are saying, hey, we want you to integrate delegate cash.
You need to integrate delegate cash.
In the same way, when we see things that are not best for everybody and with inclusivity in mind, let's start demanding it.
Let's start asking for it.
Human readable message is definitely part of that.
So please ask.
Second, just a little bit of deviance is, how is my data being shared?
So anyone that's listening, start asking that.
Like, hey, I connected my wallet.
Who are you sharing this with?
I want to know.
So two things.
Yeah, so moving ahead, we don't have more questions.
I'm sorry.
I've been, like, you know, very, very observative with the space.
And, like, I had a few questions.
So I'll move on.
I'm going to call a time check here and say one more question just because you're getting close to the end.
Yeah, sure.
I'll just move on with my most important question.
So have you considered using Google Authentication for a user onboarding and give them, like, a 10-day time period so, like, you know, they can get acclimatized to, you know, hold Web3 wallet experience and, you know, get their wallet onboarded?
Yeah.
Great question.
I think it's an interesting path to pursue.
It's not...
I'm sorry.
Can you explain your question again, Aush?
Are you saying how to add, like, 2FA when you're wallet signing?
No, I'm saying is, like, you know, when a user comes in, right?
So, like, getting a first user onboard, you just put in a Google login, right?
So they just log in with Google, but they have, like, a 10-day timeline, right?
So in that 10-day timeline, they need to get acclimatized to Web3 interfaces and, you know, like, at least know what Web3 wallet is and, you know, get their Web3 wallet connected in order to proceed, you know, with the rest of the mandatory requirements.
Permanent prerequisites of delicate cash.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think I would love for that to be an interesting end state.
That's more, probably more...
Yeah, maybe we're going to need a little bit of time to follow up with you and kind of get a better idea of what you're talking about here.
So it sounds like we're going to need to take that conversation offline.
But I really appreciate your question, and I know we're coming to nine minutes before the end of the show.
But thank you so much for your question, and we will think about that one when we're offline here.
So thank you.
Let's see.
I'm going to move to our very last question for the space, which is actually, you know, because we've got about four minutes before our pull-up goes live.
So I want to make sure that we get that for everybody who has been amazing participants in the audience here.
But as a last question to the delegate cash team, like, were there any questions that we did not ask today that we should have or points that you really want to hit home to the audience?
I think we did a great job of covering a lot of ground on that front.
I guess I'd encourage people to go out and tinker with it, set up a cold vault in the hot wallet, and then delegate to the hot wallet.
But that it's wallet siloing that can feel a bit tedious, but saves thousands or millions of dollars down the line.
So no better time to learn than now.
Thank you, Fuwa.
That is definitely something that, you know, as we've had this conversation today, it's been really exciting to hear all of the things that, you know, the delegate cash team has built for the community.
And having this as, you know, like a public service, a public and something that is available to everybody, you know, regardless of their level of experience here in Web3.
Like, this is a great way for people to start, you know, learning more about safety and making sure that, you know, no matter how it is you're interacting, you're doing so in a responsible manner.
Even if, you know, say it's one of those days where you're just not feeling like doing all the extra work to verify, you know, delegate cash is a great safety net because then, you know, you can take the actions without having to do it on an account that is, or in a wallet that is, you know, going to put you at risk.
So, it's very exciting stuff for sure.
And I love the fact that it's been, you know, so quickly integrated with Collabland, you know, so a huge shout out to both teams there, to the delegate cash team for, you know, being willing to do this integration into Collabland.
Like, our devs are absolutely amazing at, you know, taking these ideas and getting them implemented in ways that will help keep our community safer.
So definitely deserves a shout out there for sure.
You know, just as a final point on my end, I just wanted to say, you know, you guys were amazing to work with.
You basically reached out to us 10 or so days ago, and it's already live.
Yeah, that's a shout out to our amazing dev team.
We are absolutely security focused and have been this whole time, and I think I shared this a couple of weeks ago,
which is, like, when Plum put out that tweet, like, is Collabland even safe?
How do I know Collabland is safe?
And I was like, oh, wow.
All right.
I know her.
I follow her on my personal account.
Like, I trust that she's going to be interested in hearing what I have to say, and I'm not going to get piled on by a bunch of I don't even know who out there.
And so I was like, yeah, let's do this.
And so I started engaging with her publicly, and then she invited me to her server, and I got to meet so many different security nerds.
And it's been so great because Collabland team has been, like, working on security on our own, kind of, like, sweating and working this out and trying to keep everybody safe.
And it's been a very internal in-face, you know, we're worried about the outside world, but we're working on it alone.
And so these last two weeks, like, being able to engage with community and finding out that there's so many people out there working on security,
and we can all work together and share this burden, has been a really beautiful thing.
And it's really opened up a lot of new relationships with us, and for me personally, and for all the people on our team.
And so just being able to have more people out there that are all worried about the same problem, like, it's just been really fun.
And so finding them and working together, that's what motivated me to contact you on that tweet, Muna, which was like, oh, like, I'm not worried.
I see now, I've seen that there's so many other people, good people that are interested in keeping people safe,
and we're thinking about mass adoption and what we can do to keep people safe.
Like, it just really opened up that world to us, because at Collabland, like, security and privacy are our number one and number two pillars.
And so it's like a focus of our daily conversations.
It's a part of everything we do, but it's very much just our team that's doing it.
And now, like, being able to engage everybody, it's just been a dream.
So, yeah, thank you so much for that.
And I want to thank Plum again.
I'm going to shout her out again, Plumferno on Twitter, who really was like, hey, there's lots of people out here.
Come and, like, be part of these bigger conversations, which is how we pivoted to Spotlight and Security as well.
So it's just been great.
And thank you so much, Anjali, for giving that background.
I know that we've got about four minutes left.
So let me first give the POAP for everybody who has been waiting, because that means there are, you know, just about 15 minutes for you to claim it.
So if you open the POAP app on your mobile device, you should be able to hit Mint in the lower right.
And then you're going to use secret word.
And in honor of our space today, it is actually two words all smushed together, no spaces, all lowercase.
It is delegate collab.
So it is delegate collab.
D-E-L-E-G-A-T-E-C-O-L-E-F-I-N-D-E-C-O-L-E-G-A-T-E-C-O-L-E-C-O-L-E-F-I-C-E-C-O-L-E.
To, you know, go through the POAP claim whack-a-mole where you select all of the numbers in ascending order as their proof that you are not a robot.
And as Collabland is a bot, it feels a little bit sad sometimes, but we make it.
um so yes delegate collab d-e-l-e-g-a-t-c-o-l-l-a-b that is your po-op claim
um for today and that will be available for the next oh goodness 15 17 minutes that's how math
works so 17 minutes um other than that we i know that uh we've been really pushing on our socials
for people to join the clapland discord get involved with us you know if you're excited
about what we're doing join the discord talk to the team you know build other cool stuff with us
and you know join us at eath denver as well because we will be there and putting on some
workshops i know anjali has been really excited about that because you know there's workshops
there are bounties there are things to be done you know that can really help improve the space
for everybody but with all that housekeeping aside i just want to put out another thank you to
our guests today and the delegate cash team as a whole because this has been absolutely amazing
as you know a collaboration and an integration and a way to help keep you know the greater web
three community safe so thank you everybody for joining and you know for the audience for the
participation i know we didn't get to all the questions um and i appreciate that you were here
if you have questions tweet them at us and or the delegate cash people you can put them in the
thread to this space and i'm sure we can respond async as well so always happy to answer questions
and provide information where we can um thanks everyone
thanks for having us
thanks for having us
