All right, gm, gm, gm, gm, gm.
Hope you guys are having yourselves a good afternoon so far.
Prism, Nevin, thank you guys for being here.
We're gonna get things started in just a few.
We're gonna make sure that everybody gets an opportunity to retweet the space,
drop a little love in the lower right-hand corner first.
But most importantly, set a little vibe before things get cooking.
Got a huge show ahead, got a lot of things to talk about.
So please, please, please pass the word around.
We're gonna get things started here in just a little bit.
But like I said, let's get a little bit of energy into this.
I know you think that you could do so.
I know you think you feel it's true.
It's a little place in life that I feel free.
It's a little place in life that I feel free.
It's a little place in life that I feel free.
It's a little place in life that I feel free.
It's a little place in life that I feel free.
It's a little place in life that I feel free.
It's a little place in life that I feel free.
Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Stephen Miller,
and I appreciate you guys coming out to this week's episode of Color
Commentary, where art and alpha collide.
We've got an amazing show ahead for you,
so please, please, please make sure you share it with a friend
and get yourselves, you know, a little snack.
Because we're going to be here for about 90 minutes,
and we've got a lot to cover.
We've got big guests on stage with us today.
We've got Prism from Counterfeit Cult.
We've got Nevin, who is going to be talking to us about a drop
that he is involved with this upcoming Monday.
And we've got you in the audience.
If you would like to come up on stage
and talk a little bit about art with us,
we've got plenty of things to discuss.
We've got drop talk at the end of the show.
So if you're an artist and you've got an upcoming drop,
you can come up and tell us a little bit more about it.
But I'm also going to fill you in on some more collections
that are upcoming in the next week or so.
Part of the TDA's network of spaces,
that, of course, is the Daily Alpha.
They're up here co-hosted.
Please, please, please make sure that you tune into their shows,
I'm sorry, Tuesday through Friday and Saturday mornings,
TDA or stay poor, as we say.
Well, exciting week passed.
Had some really big news across the art space.
Of course, we've got NFT Paris kicking off and underway right now.
But the big news right at this immediate moment,
I think, is still revolving around this insane 5,000 ETH transaction,
the acquisition of a full set of autoglyphs.
A lot of people have been talking about it across the last 24 to 48 hours.
It is not a small story, folks.
A lot of people have been saying that generative art on ETH is in trouble.
Generative art in general is in trouble.
I got to tell you, if there's a bullish indicator,
I saw a really, really solid take on this just a little bit ago
that I want to go ahead and play it back to.
So just bear with me for one quick second
because it really was probably the best
way I could find somebody to sum this thing up.
It was from Tristan Reddick, who I will go ahead and pin up in a little bit.
And the comment was, we saw a big positive shift in the sentiment
around collecting art after the goose ringer sale.
I believe the same thing is happening as a result
of that legendary autoglyphs acquisition.
The meta in NFTs has revolved around requiring utility tokens, et cetera,
for many, many months, now which has made it both stressful
and boring at the same time.
Can we all get back to the basics of what makes Web3 great
and collect what we love and support builders and creators
It almost sounds like we are so back.
And I hope that you guys agree.
We've got a lot to be talking about through this.
I mean, you can get into the details of who in the world purchased this.
You can get into why do autoglyphs even matter
to the larger generative art discussion.
There's so many different ways to take it.
So I want to throw it really, really quickly over to a friend of the show,
friend of mine, really quick just to get a quick take on it.
Prism, do you have any opinion on this one before we get things started
with focusing in on your work and Nevin's work today?
I think, you know, we'll always look at these early,
culturally significant collections as highly sought after
and this is just kind of like a verification of that.
And if you link this in with some of the sales
that have happened over the past couple weeks,
I think, you know, we're seeing more activity on the art side
than we have for the last few months comparatively
to everything else going on, especially in our ecosystem.
But yeah, I mean, I'm bullish, man.
You know, obviously, we're at the forefront of this
and even, you know, something that gets created today,
you know, a cycle later after NFTs really took off,
is still very, very early.
And so it's, you know, to me, it just, it gets me excited
about what's to come if we're at this stage.
And, you know, really the only ones that are still,
that are paying attention are us that have been here
for a long time and for something like this to happen.
It's just, you know, we'll see where this goes over the next year or two.
Yeah, no, I think there's just a lot to be excited for.
I mean, we talk about it all this, all the time in this space,
about how we are truly so early, we're so ahead of the pack.
But it's these moments that career trades are made on.
You know, we've seen so many big acquisitions like this happen
during the bear market that it's almost, you know,
foolhardy to just ignore them.
To say that this could very well be the catalyst for recovery,
I really do think that we're going to start to see a lot more money
flow back in to the overall art ecosystem,
whether you're talking about ETH, Bitcoin or Sol.
Yes, as I like to on the show, I'll give Tezos a little bit of shit
and just take ownership of the fact that, you know,
the majority of art right now is happening, in my opinion,
over on those three chains.
But there's just, there's a lot of things to be hopeful about
and not just strictly the copium that we've all had to deal with
I mean, the Autoglyphs acquisition itself is one of the several
big moves in the pipeline for all of generative art.
And the collectors have one goal.
It's ultimately to present those artworks in museums
and institutional settings well into the future.
It's just, it's going to be crazy.
So if you've not yet followed this story,
I'm going to make sure that it's pinned up to the top for you.
But that really is the biggest story across the last week in art,
at least in my opinion, happy to bring up a couple others
But as a quick reminder before we get into our first chat with one
of the artists on stage today, we'd like to remind you to make sure
you retweet the show and also feel free to come up on stage
if you have any questions for either of our guests,
Because we're about to dive right on in to our first segment
where we are going to be speaking with Nevin about his drop,
Now, to give you a little bit of a picture about Nevin,
Nevin has a partner in this project named Alex Kitto.
Alex is a Denver-based pro photographer who shoots on film,
uses color and natural light to bring calmness to his work.
He's worked with numerous brands, musicians, agencies, and sport teams.
Now, Nevin, at the very same time, despite not working in photography full time,
has an uncanny understanding of light and space that he brings
both to his profession and his photography.
But his ultimate goal is to share his love of the outdoors
and the beauty that surrounds us with the world.
Together, these two have Fragmented Frames,
which started as a dream to bring photography
to the forefront of Bitcoin ordinals.
And now that dream is primed to become a reality this upcoming Monday,
their collection of 111 photographs
depict striking views of both land and sea.
We are thrilled to have him with us.
Nevin, welcome to Color Commentary.
Hey, thanks for the really kind intro there.
Alex, despite being a Denver-based artist,
is spending three months in Europe, so he's asleep right now.
So I'm pinch-hitting for him, but I'm very excited to be here,
especially with Prism, who has been really awesome to me as well
in the space and just navigating ordinals in general.
It's been a really fun few months,
and I see a bunch of folks that I've definitely connected with in the audience.
And just great to be here and to talk about something I'm really bullish on, photography.
So let's start there, then.
Because I think it's fair enough.
Why exactly is it that you feel so passionately for photography on Bitcoin?
I know that, typically speaking, it's one of the most high-fidelity art formats
that's out there, and given that Bitcoin is so constrained on things like file size,
it makes things really hard.
So why is it that you wanted to push that boundary and take photography to Bitcoin?
Yeah, I mean, I think the value prop for photography on Bitcoin
is higher than any of the other chains,
simply because of this one fact that I really like
and something we did on all 111 of these photographs,
is being able to describe the photo from the Satoshi from that day.
So April 19th, 2019, if I took a photo,
and that was the day we'd marry it on that sat,
we'd inscribe it on that sat,
marrying that moment in time, that memory of mine,
with the Bitcoin blockchain.
I think that that's such an interesting and unique perspective
that, to my knowledge, I'm not sure you can do on any of the other blockchains.
And then, just the file size thing,
I mean, I know you're not,
no one's going to be inscribing like 50 megabyte files, right?
Even with recursion, it just doesn't make sense.
But finding a good compromise in compression,
and then physically investing a little bit,
kind of putting the money where your mouth is,
and not inscribing a 15 kilobyte or 10 kilobyte file
that looks like it was taken on a Motorola Razr from 2004.
Rather, something that actually could look like fine art on Bitcoin,
that's where I'm bullish on it.
Well, despite the fact that you're going to fade my Motorola Razr,
I will absolutely agree with you.
I think that when you look at the opportunity
that you and Alex have with fragmented frames,
it brings a really nuanced take on photography to Bitcoin,
a chain that is known for its provenance and its immutability, right?
And when you look at each of these different chains
where you could have rolled this out,
it really does strike me that,
especially because it's on-chain photography,
there may not have been a better option.
So it's a really powerful statement that you guys have gone with here.
But as you're looking towards the rollout of this,
what's the type of feedback and the reception that you've gotten
Because I think that most of the folks that I've spoken with
across the Bitcoin world and the Ordinals landscape,
they've really rallied behind this.
Is that kind of your feeling?
Yeah, I mean, listen, I couldn't be more excited with the amount of folks
who really understand what we're trying to do and see the vision.
It's definitely not for everybody.
I've gotten some feedback where the price is a little high for them
and it's like, okay, it's not a 10x flip.
This isn't a degenerative move.
And fine art ROI is typically 5 to 10 years,
and if you're lucky to get 1.5 to 2 back on true fine art.
But that's not what I'm doing here.
What we're really focused on is just the art on Bitcoin.
I truly don't think that there's going to be another opportunity
for something of this size to be done ever again, potentially,
because of how inscription fees are going
and just the timing of it all made a lot of sense.
And Alex and I spent, I mean, months,
months just going over ideas and trying to figure out what makes sense
and then getting connected with inscribing Atlantis and Ordinary
and just everything kind of worked out the way it should.
I'm a firm believer of things happen for a reason
when one door opens or one door shuts, another one opens.
We had a couple of roadblocks and everything worked out the way it should.
I'm just, as a photographer, there's a couple of things that really,
just accomplishments that kind of stand out.
And regardless of however this rolls out,
whatever reception it has after the fact, to have 55
and then there's one split photo of Alex and I.
So 55 of my own photographs on Bitcoin is something that I will be forever grateful for.
Regardless of however this does, my work is now on Bitcoin.
That's where it is forever. And that's really, really fucking cool.
I was about to say, that's the sort of thing that you say with a smile
just streaking across your face.
I think that it's a really incredible looking collection.
It almost, at least from what I've seen,
and for those of you in the audience that are unfamiliar,
I went ahead and pinned a bunch of these shots to the top
so that you can get a better idea of what fragmented frames is all about.
But when I look at it, I get a lot of that really vintage photography feel.
And I think that that's something that especially people that are born in the 90s,
born in the 80s, they definitely have a perspective on, right?
It's something that they remember from their youth.
It's something that brings back a level of nostalgia,
what it might look like as an example from one of your beach shots,
what it might have felt like to have been on that beach back as a child.
I think there's a lot to be said of that.
But do you think that there was anything to,
I don't want to call it the deprecation of quality
in terms of having to scale it down in file size,
do you think that had an overall effect on the way that you wanted
the collection to come out, or did it come out as you had hoped?
Yeah, so it kind of all works together in what I'm about to describe.
Both Alex and I shoot quite a bit of 35 millimeter film.
And a lot of those scans aren't, you know,
they can be up to like 175 megabytes or something like that, something crazy.
But a lot of them, you can get good scans at like three megabytes, right?
So then, you know, scaling that down,
you're not losing that much in the grain that is inherent with film photography,
it works with the noise that you kind of get when compressing.
So it all in all like works really nicely.
The frames that these are all in are an Instax frame that, you know,
I actually scanned on my, you know, home scanner.
So we used recursion to basically build on chain the frame
in the photo inside the frame.
And another neat kind of thing here is like when you go to the inscription,
you can toggle the frame on and off,
which is something I'm really bullish about because like,
I think it really brings a nice cohesive feel to it.
Like something like this is part of a large project,
this is part of something important.
But then you can, as the collector or as the viewer really,
just toggle that on and off and enjoy the photograph
in the manner in which Alex and I took it.
So that's a long way of saying like everything was very intentional here
in terms of composition, compression, subject matter.
The whole deal is like, you know, we're definitely fans of nostalgia.
So that aspect of what we're doing is absolutely intentional.
And it just feels when you look at all of them
under the one parent inscription,
it's just really like for me like a surreal moment to see
that body of work out there because it feels so cohesive.
And that's something like as a photographer in the Web3 space,
like having a cohesive project feel to something is kind of difficult
given the nature of photography.
So to have, you know, the unifying factor that is the frames
makes it feel collectible, if you will,
but also, you know, really keeping with fine art.
Yeah, I think that I would absolutely agree with what you're saying there.
Like it really does stay with the larger fine art narrative,
Out of curiosity, because I think that we've navigated
a lot of the technical behind the scenes of it,
especially that remarkable recursion fact that you guys have built in
in terms of making it interactive with that frame,
which I would be stunned if more people don't make use of that frame tech
if you guys actually make it recursively available
and kind of like publish the open source of that.
That might be really, really interesting.
I'm really curious about the story behind the shoots,
because from what I understood, these are photographs
that you guys had taken over a course of a number of years.
What's the story behind the 55 that you included?
Yeah, I mean, for me, as a photographer, just in general,
and then into the Web3 space, you'll photograph a moment
and then know for real. Right then, that was something special.
And in Web3, I've learned to hold back certain photos
And a lot of the time, I have no idea what that's going to be.
So there's a couple of these that I could point to.
In the latest pin one, I knew as soon as I took that photo,
in the way I looked at it with the sunrise and the wheatgrass
and just everything about this,
and this is really special to me.
I will find a way to get this on a blockchain at some point.
I just need to figure out where and when.
And it'll come to me when it's the right time.
Alex and I kind of understand this concept, right?
So we do the quadrillion drop,
which kind of got our feet wet to ordinals in November.
Daza had reached out to us in either, I think it was May or June,
trying to teach us about it.
We got involved learning about it and did this drop.
And Alex and I knew, like, hey, man, ordinals is something.
Photography on ordinals, it could be a move.
A lot of people who got our additions from that drop
were really, really excited.
I'm like, all right, I think this is time.
I think that's the moment.
And me being an East Coast photographer,
but also enjoying being in the mountains, kind of the vice versa,
with Alex being a mountain-based, rocky-based photographer,
enjoys the coast as well.
Like, our styles mesh really well.
So we went together and kind of curated our greatest,
I don't want to say greatest hits, but just what we like to do, right?
Like, what are the photos that when we go back
and look through our roll decks of years, right?
What are the photos that stand out to us?
And we built a really special collection based off of,
I mean, I think the earliest photo in there,
I think some of them are from 2018.
And mine specifically, like,
it was before I even considered myself a real photographer, if you will.
Like, the photo is good, like, I mean, it was,
but it was what that trip in particular,
and when they come out, like, I'll do a thread on them.
These two photos of mine that are in there, like, they're special.
They got me into photography.
They really sparked my interest in becoming a photographer
and going and following my passion with this,
and it's changed my life.
So there's a lot of really special things in there,
and I'm sure Alex could talk about any number of the pieces
and the sentimental value in there.
And again, like, I might sound like a broken record with this.
Like, these stories, these ideas, these moments are important to us,
and I think it being on Bitcoin makes the most sense for this.
Like, everything, for me, I'm like,
why are you doing something, right, in this space?
Like, it better be a good why.
And that's what people rally behind.
And to your point, Stephen, maybe that's why the community
has seen our vision, our passion for this,
because we have a strong why for this.
It's creating something lasting on Bitcoin forever.
It's funny that you say it that way, too,
because I think what I've found from talking with a number of artists
that have deployed on Bitcoin,
it seems like there's a lot more intentionality behind any action.
And the more that I hear different artists speak about it,
the more it just rings true that this is not something that is going to go away,
as a lot of people may have thought at the very beginning of ordinals.
This is something that has a great degree of purpose
and thought that goes into each and every inscription when you are an artist.
It's not just like inscribing a 10K, right,
or even just deploying a 10K on Solano or Ethereum.
There is thought that gets poured into what sats you're inscribing on,
the way that you deploy it,
to what degree of recursion you choose to go with.
But what I really find myself fascinated by is the fact that
with photography in particular, and this being, in your words,
in some ways a greatest hits collection,
you had to show an insane amount of restraint.
At least I would have to imagine so.
I guess how long did that process go on
where you had to parse through those images and really narrow it down?
It had to have been quite the undertaking.
Yeah, but for me, it's like I'm in no rush,
and I don't think Alex is either in terms of just getting
every single photo I've ever taken on the blockchain.
I don't have any intentions of quitting or just making a bag and leaving.
This is me, in real time, making a legacy for my art.
So when I'm looking at a photograph that's special to me,
and for me, additions serve a purpose.
I heard one collector call them bookmarks.
I actually really like that idea.
But you can only sell a photograph once,
so if I know it's special,
I better wait for the moment that it calls to me, that it makes sense.
I can point to any number of these where I'm like,
I've sat on this one for years, really,
and it just makes sense when everything...
As Alex and I were doing this, coming up with the idea
and really getting the ball rolling here, it's like we...
It was apparent to me, it was extremely apparent to me,
that this was that time to go through and find...
It's funny, because we did a project together in Iceland.
We went and traveled to Iceland together for a week
and did a whole web3-based project on Ethereum.
If you flip through the book,
you'd be hard-pressed to tell which photo is whose.
Every once in a while, you can see a distinct style or edit,
but any number of these could be from either of us.
I think that that's such a neat aspect to this, too.
There's two people here, two lives, two visions
that resonate the same and work well together.
I'll be honest with you, I'm not sure I could do this
with any other photographer in this space.
Alex and I seem to be just cut from the same cloth
in terms of work ethic and vision and drive,
because, man, if I haven't spent...
He feels like a brother to me at this point, really.
and even if we're not talking about web3 stuff,
just kicking it and talking about what we're doing
or playing Call of Duty together,
we've become extremely close.
To do this project together has just been surreal.
Just as one final note on the collection itself,
I'm really curious about the decision
to include fine art physicals
with the purchase of one of these pieces.
Can you expand on what it is that guided that decision
and what people can expect from those physicals?
Sure. This is where it ties back to quality.
Every photo that you're seeing on the timeline is actually...
I'm thinking most of them are exactly
what was inscribed on Bitcoin.
The quality is almost verbatim there.
They're not their true glory.
That's where fine art comes in, man.
The physical print that we can...
The collector can experience the true resolution of that
I have a really good relationship
with the local print shop where I live.
They sold me my first camera.
I've worked really, really well with them.
I'm going to be working out in the Inscribing Atlantis Discord.
Eventually, there'll be a claim page
where I'll verify all that kind of jazz.
It's going to be a physical touch.
We're not sending that out to a third party to fulfill it.
I'm going to be sending them 111 prints around the world.
I really like the analog feel to what we do
and the physical touch that we're able to bring.
I think that hand signing and numbering
and sending it out by hand
instead of shopping it out to some third party print shop to do
is something that just goes above and beyond
and really shows that we care for what we're doing.
The reason to do it is to bring the physical world of art
I'm sitting in my office right now with a bunch of art.
I have so much physical art just laying in my office right now.
I love the physical aspect of NFTs and digital artifacts.
and being able to look at them in two different ways.
It's about providing a larger experience.
I think that's extremely important to be thinking about
as even other artists start rolling out their collections
and as they decide whether or not to take a physical route.
There are so many different ways to explore and experience these pieces
that it makes a ton of sense especially in this instance
to be rolling out physicals.
I think it really is a beautiful thing to be done
especially because it's photography.
Before we move into a couple more questions,
I do want to make sure that I throw it back to the audience.
If you have any questions and you would like to come up to stage,
please know this is not a closed stage by any means.
Yes, I'm leaning in and asking a ton of questions
because frankly I love the art,
but I really do want to encourage you.
If you have a question from the audience,
please feel free to come up and ask it.
It's very much so open and Prism, that goes just as much for you.
If you have any questions for Nevin,
please feel free to just jump in at any time.
I wanted to back up into a different question, Nevin,
just to start wrapping up and putting a bow on this.
You've done collections to your own comment across different chains.
You've gone on Ethereum, you've gone on Solana,
you've done one of ones on SuperRare.
I'm really curious what your probably larger reflective takeaway is
from the experience of deciding to go Bitcoin with this collection
as opposed to what you've learned from the experiences
of rolling out on other chains.
Is there anything that really stands out right now
or is it something more so that you're going to look forward
to looking back on reflecting on after the middle Monday?
I mean, so I utilized a lot of the different, I guess,
Web3 in general sort of things that I've learned
with one being like we did a pre-sale
and any of our collectors who have been with us from 2021
till now kind of had that, we gave them the option to see,
hey, if you're interested in this, let's talk.
And we had 29 pre-sale spots filled.
So of the 111, you know, 29 are already spoken for.
And that was something that I've learned is like really like to,
I don't kind of reward people who have invested in you
and have your vision, you know, prior to that.
So just a lot of different, you know, Eternal Glow,
which was the Iceland project, we did physical prints with this.
So the things that I've learned, the things that I've kind of,
how I operate in the Web3 space, we applied to fragmented frames.
And I just think it's a good way of being as a photographer,
like these common practices, if you will.
The one thing that I am really excited to see is like,
I've never dropped anything of this size.
I know 111, one of ones isn't quite, you know,
I know the meta right now on some of the chains is these like
generative, like low cost, high, like 800 piece for 0.3 sole or something like that.
It's really hot right now.
It's not this, that's not this, but it is a little bit higher of a volume
and we're, you know, working with the, you know, different communities and ordinals
to get people on the allocation, allow list.
And it'll be really interesting to see how that all rolls out to get, you know,
50 plus new collectors of my work is something that I've not experienced before,
but I'm definitely excited.
And it seems like a lot of other folks are really excited about too.
I can tell you we're not done like this is, you know,
I've been in since I minted my Genesis on ETH in April, no, May of 2021.
Like I've done this every day since and I love it.
I wouldn't do it if I didn't.
If I see a real, like I keep going back to that legacy thing for me
building a legacy in real time, right?
Like a lot of photographers prior to this, they did books, they did exhibitions,
you know, that we look back on now.
It's like you're building your legacy now in real time with the time stamps on the blockchain.
I think it's really fun to be a part of that.
It is that digital renaissance.
So a lot of new stuff happening and long-winded answer of,
I'm excited to see what's going to happen.
Well, again, I'm so grateful that, you know,
you took the time to come out and tell us more about fragmented frames
and share the story of not just the art, but, you know,
the experience of moving on to Bitcoin for the very first time.
I do want to toss it to Prism real quick and put them on the spot.
Prism, do you have any further questions for Nevin about the collection?
I've talked to Nevin more times than I can count.
It's been the last couple weeks about the collection.
You know, you mentioned these frames kind of giving it this vintage,
nostalgic look, which I really dig.
So, you know, even with the constraints,
it kind of opens up some things as far as like creativity goes.
And instead of, you know, just kind of putting out these photos,
you have these two different versions.
And I think that's super cool of you guys to do.
So I'm really excited for you guys.
And, you know, as I've said before, I think, you know,
photography is really it's underrepresented on ordinals
and for something like this to sort of lead the way will be important.
So, yeah, here to support you every step of the way.
And both Prism and Stephen, thank you for Prism hosted me on Friday,
I believe it was, or last week on HisSpace.
And just wanted to thank you, Stephen, for the platform to talk about art
and specifically my art and Alex's art.
This space has been incredibly generous with their time and their space.
So I just utmost gratitude toward you.
And thank you, Prism, for front running the conversation on your own space.
It's honestly a real pleasure to be able to have you on.
For those of you that are looking to mint this collection,
I would highly recommend that you do.
The artists, of course, are Alex Kitto and Nevin Johnson.
They're minting this collection.
The remaining mints that is on February 26th, that is Monday.
And I believe the guaranteed allow list phase is 10 a.m. Eastern.
First come, first serve allow list after that at about 4 p.m. Eastern.
Know that there's only roughly 81 remaining.
And the mint price is 0.05 BTC.
You can, of course, reflect back on this interview and a few others.
And I'm sure that Nevin has got retweeted onto his own timelines
to make sure you give him a follow to follow up.
But Nevin, any final things that you'd like to tell people about
or would you like to just stick around
and chop it up on art with us for the rest of the show?
Yeah, no, I think I've said everything I need to hear.
And just again, thank you for the ability to tell my story.
And yeah, I'll definitely be hanging around.
I got to move this couch. I'm sitting here.
I got to move this couch into my garage.
So to drop this project, this giant move,
is just kind of all crazy right now.
I made the time for this because it's important
and important to have spaces like this in general.
So, Stephen, I really do appreciate you.
Again, Nevin Johnson, Alex Kitto, Fragmented Frames on Monday.
I hope that you guys will go and support them.
But now, a conversation that is going to take a completely different direction.
Something that I think, honestly, is going to be really interesting.
Talking a little bit of alpha, not for necessarily collectors,
but for artists, and thinking a little bit about a different angle here
on the way that this space is going to be shaped going forward.
So I want to turn it over to our next guest, Prism,
who is the founder of a good old collective called Counterfeit.
They are, at least from what I've seen in the group chat,
a ragtag group of art fanatics on Bitcoin
that have gotten quite a lot of great collections out so far,
representing artists even so recently this week as Sabette,
Ekelestian, and many more.
Prism, I'm so glad that you've made the time to join us.
I'm grateful for the opportunity to chat.
Tell us a little bit more really quick,
for those that are not familiar, about Counterfeit and your vision for it.
Yeah, yeah. Thanks for having me, first off.
Really appreciate it, man.
Yeah, you know, Boozy down there,
we started this thing together in February of last year.
So, you know, as we saw this Ordinals space being developed early on,
we thought there was an opportunity to really, you know,
push for quality and push for art at a time when, you know,
it was a lot of pixels, it was a lot of, you know, low res inscriptions.
And we just thought this would be a great opportunity
to support artists and bring the best we can to Bitcoin.
And what we really wanted to be known as was, you know,
if you see one of our inscriptions on Chain, you'll know it's ours
because it is, you know, of the highest quality that's being put out.
That's what we wanted to know, to be known for.
And so since then we've helped, you know, I don't want to say helped.
We've collaborated with around 30 different artists.
You know, Sabet this week, which is awesome, he's such a nice guy.
But then there's also been, you know, some others, you know,
Pop Wonders Genesis is in our collection.
And if you go back to the first series that we put out,
there's a lot of very early ordinals artists
and artists that sort of floated around Bitcoin.
And our goal there was really to kind of unite everyone from stacks,
from ordinals, from counterparty.
You know, there's obviously, you know,
eth artists in there too, but bring everyone together around ordinals
and really celebrate those who were here early.
And now we're really venturing into the East side.
You know, we have a lot of talk in the space about we need to support artists.
We need to grow and onboard artists and all those things, which is true.
But at the same time, we also need to be onboarding collectors.
And so that's really our focus right now, is going over to East,
working with these artists with, you know, strong collector bases
and introducing them to ordinals.
And so I guess, you know, to sum that up, you know,
our goal here is to, you know, work with artists, take their ideas,
see what we can do to make it more, you know, ordinals and Bitcoin native
and help them with everything along the way,
all the way through to releasing their project.
So that could be something that's involved in one of our collections
or, you know, their own projects.
And so, yeah, it's been a cool ride.
And, you know, going back to the first thing that you said
about where this space is developing,
there's a lot of reasons to turn away, for an artist,
to turn away from ordinals.
There's a lot of roadblocks that you could come up to and just think,
well, it's easier just to go do this.
But why can't there be someone like Counterfeit there
to kind of help them overcome those things and make it easier
and make it just about, you know, focusing on the art?
And so that's kind of the role that we want to play in this ecosystem.
So if you could really quick before we get into this larger conversation,
provide me with a little bit more of a, I don't want to say delineation,
but an idea around the differences between your collections.
Because the big collection that I think everybody should be familiar with
off the jump is Counterfeit Cards,
which is where you've been onboarding a lot of different artists.
But what's the stories behind artifacts, identity, and ordained?
So, yeah, artifacts were right in the middle of a burn.
But, yeah, so our first inscription was 38,980.
And, you know, this is something we never intended to sell,
but we wanted to make it a part of what we were doing.
And so what we did was we turned that into 111 editions
and now we use that as sort of an access or like a priority pass, collector's pass.
And so that was over on stacks because at the time, this was pre-recursion.
You know, you couldn't do editions unless you were inscribing that image,
you know, however many times you wanted.
And so we put them on stacks, which is a Bitcoin L2.
And starting two days ago, we started burning those over.
So we've got about 50 or so burned over so far of 111.
And so holders of those artifacts, they get first access to all of our drops
and then always working to get them access to all of our artists' drops as well.
And as we kind of go forward and we build out the project a little bit further,
there's going to be a little bit more opportunity outside of our project for those holders.
So it's basically just like an access pass for us.
We also have identity, which is our PFP collection.
It's 111 animated PFPs from Boozy down there.
And I see VC, she has one of my favorite ones,
but they're all a little bit different and that's one of the cooler ones.
And, you know, this is sort of a secondary thing.
As we kind of grow a little bit, you know, those things will become more important.
But today it's a great PFP and it's sort of a secondary to our artifacts.
We have the counterfeit cards.
So each series is 22 cards, starts at zero, ends at 21.
And we bring in, you know, Boozy plus 21 artists
and sort of tell the story of the point in time of Ordinals.
Our series zero, the first one, the theme was hacking Bitcoin.
So it was really about like creativity is now on Bitcoin.
And let's sort of tell this story through the art.
And now our series is really about the orange wave.
And so each piece ties into this theme of, you know,
we all know where this is going.
And I'm betting that this happens while we're releasing this series,
this onslaught of artists and people just coming to the space.
So that's really our primary collection.
And then we also have the ordained,
which is where all of these artists that we've worked with,
we sort of drop pieces with them through this collection.
It's also going to be a collection that opens up to collabs between those artists.
And the idea behind this collection is what story are you trying to tell?
And how can we tie this into the Bitcoin canvas?
And so we have, you know, Teflon down here who had a piece,
the most recent piece in the ordained.
And because he uses, because he's a collage artist,
we inscribed that piece on vintage sets.
And we have, you know, some other pieces in there that really tie into the story of what,
you know, what the artist is trying to get across.
And so those are kind of our four collections.
We are, you know, at this point with the artifact, Vern,
we're very, very excited to really just focus in on the art.
And so that's kind of where we are right now.
Yeah, look, I always want to make sure that everybody has enough context behind not only the individual,
but what they're working on.
So I needed to make sure that I highlighted that right up front.
But this now kind of takes us around to this larger conversation about what artists should be looking forward to and be looking to.
You and I have kind of managed to come to a philosophical agreement in a group chat about kind of that direction.
And it really does center up around the role of galleries and art houses,
whether you're talking about Bitcoin, Ethereum, Solana, name a chain, right?
The evolving role that they will take.
So just to kind of paint a general picture first,
what is your initial thought with the current state of galleries and art houses across all chains?
Well, you know, I think just like broadly and kind of looking back to what was created last cycle,
there's this, I don't know how to put it,
there's that each platform, for the most part, they want to be exclusive.
You know, you can have an exclusive platform.
You can just kind of pick and choose which artists have access to that.
But over time, as you continue to work with artists, that thing that you've kind of been writing on this exclusivity,
it just slowly kind of goes away.
It's very hard to maintain something like that.
And so, you know, with some of the developed platforms from last cycle,
that's to me is kind of why they've sort of lost their luster is,
you know, the thing that they marketed on is no longer valid.
And when something like that happens, it's on artists to, you know, they really don't have the benefit of like, oh, it's here.
You have to go out and, you know, it's just kind of like doing your own job.
And so I think it's really important for these types of projects or platforms to be really focused in what they're doing.
What I really like about how the ordinal space is being developed is you have something like gamma.
And, you know, they want to grow it slowly.
But, you know, you probably see gamma turning into something like a foundation where it's, you know, this is this is kind of where a lot of art lives.
But then you also have teams like ours or Inscribing Atlantis.
There's there's a few others out there, too, that really look to, you know, help artists one on one.
And so I think that's sort of like where the where the conversation we were having was was going was, you know, for the longest time,
we've expected artists to kind of take on all these responsibilities outside of the art.
So with the constraints here, with the newness of ordinals, this is a good time to sort of look back and say, you know, this is how each developed.
What do we like? What didn't we like?
And then let's kind of like shift some things around as we as we build out this this space.
And so with those constraints, I think it makes a lot of sense for especially like rising artists to to partner with others who can help them better understand the chain,
but also get the most out of their artwork by making it more native to the chain that it's on.
And so, you know, I your question was about galleries and and art houses.
I mean, my answer is if you're if you're simply trying to drop a piece, you're going to kind of get out of that what you put into it.
But if you're actually, you know, supporting artists in a in a in a positive way, then I think
that's that's sort of like that's that's where you get longevity from.
And that's what I see out of some of these teams and ordinals.
Yeah, the thing that you and I kind of kept coming back to is that it doesn't really matter what the old narrative was.
And I mean that across all of the chains that predated ordinals, not of, of course, not Bitcoin.
I'm referring specifically to inscriptions because clearly Bitcoin is first mother chain and all.
But when it comes down to it, like it's looking at even what we've seen from galleries and art houses in the trad art world and in that landscape.
We're sitting at kind of like this threshold where the the new up and coming what I kind of call pre galleries or pre art houses have the opportunity right now to reframe the way that the public, the collector, the artist view what that role is supposed to be.
And yeah, it is absolutely imperative that it's unique to Bitcoin when it's rolling forward.
It's imperative that it's unique to a theorem when that art house is going to be native to a theorem and so like so on and so forth.
But my curiosity is like when we talk about the role that that art house or gallery can have.
The question is, what is the role?
Like, what is the extent?
Because I think that you had mentioned something about the exclusivity factor.
And I think a lot of different art houses have beaten that to death.
And we have an opportunity now to say.
What really can the role be without putting this massive constraint on top of the artist in terms of that relationship?
So from your vantage point, like, what do you see the relationship between an art house and an artist becoming here in the new landscape of ordinals?
Yeah, I think it comes down.
Like, again, you get out of it what you put into it.
And if you're not supporting these artists that you're working with after whatever it is that you're working on,
or if you're not giving them the proper footing to kind of run on their own in the ordinal space, then I think you're doing a disservice to the artists.
And so I think that relationship can be strong.
I think a lot of artists have been burnt from people in the past and are just weary of kind of bringing people into their world.
But we're seeing this hesitation towards ordinals, the fear of the unknown sort of opening things up, opening up conversation.
And people seem to be more willing to kind of work with others.
And maybe that's just, you know, over the past year, it's been a pretty collaborative ecosystem.
So maybe it's part of that kind of mixed in.
And then, you know, people kind of listen in and they see everyone, you know, knows each other by now and those sorts of things.
And they're more willing to get involved.
But I do see that sort of shifting a little bit, which is good.
And so I think it's important, you know, if if you're if you're out there to support artists, like it can't just be about a drop.
But you have to you've got to do everything you can to make sure that they're set up for success.
And I think that's something that more that that we see here in ordinals that we might not see from these platforms that have been around.
Yeah, it almost seems like past platforms have had this one and done approach, like they demand the exclusivity.
They treat it as like, OK, you will have access to our audience and then nothing else.
It just falls flat. And I think that's been part of the problem predating.
Not really predating, but in the time that just led up to when we were full on deep in the bear, the bear kind of was an opportunity for us to reawaken synergy.
And I hate the overuse of that word, but there's truth here in it.
It's it was an opportunity to realize, OK, and I think it was catalyzed mostly from like the fact that so many of us were like, OK, we're down real bad, down, down, down real bad.
What can we do to help each other get back up? Right.
That entire premise is a uniting factor. And when you bring in that unifier, crazy good things can happen.
We've seen it time and time again. Innovation rises. People start thriving at a higher level.
It's a question then of, OK, how how high can we drive this?
How much can we do together until we then reach another peak of people turning it on its head and saying, OK, now, what can you do for me?
So I hope that we're not even near that. I don't think we are.
But it does strike me that we're still seeing like the infancy stages of it. Right.
Like I had brought up the fact that you have so many big groups coming out of Bitcoin right now.
And to put a couple on your radar for the audience, you have Bitcoin Art House being led by BitGod.
You've got Singular.Art being led by Proper, Inscribe Atlantis, Osura from the from the OCM community,
counterfeit, of course, vivid ordinals, function gallery, Outland, GM DAO, which is the latest of them.
It kind of begs the question, like, how much do you think each of these pre art houses or pre galleries are going to influence one another and kind of be the factor that pushes the narrative forward?
Do you think that the way they view each other is going to be one of the factors that changes or shapes the overall landscape?
Well, I'll start by saying today that it's still a very small ecosystem.
Like the pie is very small. There's plenty of room for as many art enthusiasts who want to try standing something up to kind of support people and do cool stuff.
Just do stuff that they enjoy. Right. There's plenty of room for all this stuff.
I'll caveat that with being early in an ecosystem.
There's a lot of there's also a lot of chasing opportunity.
And so, you know, I believe in some of these these art houses. Some are just too new for me to have an opinion on.
But, you know, I would say that probably some are doing things great and some can be improved.
And, you know, we've seen some drops over the past couple of weeks that didn't necessarily go like they didn't necessarily give the best experience to an artist or to that artist collectors.
And so hopefully we see less of that. And I would love nothing more than to see more products built by, you know, built for the art community or or by collectors rather than by devs,
because that's what a lot of what we see in the in the ordinal ecosystem is like over complicated UIs and then this sorts of things.
But the more we have this perspective of folks who have collected and are really truly passionate about those things, then the better experience that we'll get.
And so hopefully each of these art houses pushes each other to be better.
And and hopefully we can just we can we can all kind of create this this, you know, the best art ecosystem where it should be stored on chain on Bitcoin.
And to and to give credit where credit is due to somebody who is not with us right now, I thought proper had a really interesting take on it, too.
And I just want to deliver that to everybody right now because I think it fits in right exactly with what you're saying.
And it was the idea that the long term sustainability of artists being able to shop around platforms will end up being great for both the artists in the short term.
But it ultimately will be better for all of us as the platforms mature because straight away right now, one of the big issues is still loyalty and that that's a street that goes both ways.
So I'm really curious if you have a vision in the long term, because again, this is about the longevity of the ego, right?
Like we have to really shape what we have right now and not take it for granted and allow ourselves to set up Bitcoin art and art on chain in general for a much brighter future.
How do we go about solving, at least in your perspective, from your perspective, the element of loyalty?
Do you see a future or any particular lane for it that you at least want to see it take shape around?
I think it's I think it's it would be unfair to ask for, you know, like 100 percent loyalty from artists.
But I think it's OK for an artist to make that decision on their own. And and I think they're going to make that decision based on where they get the best experience, whether that's costs or just set up or whatever it is.
I think that's where artists will ultimately figure out, OK, I'm going to drop most of my work here.
You know, we've we've never asked anyone to exclusively work with us or anything like that.
But we have had some artists that have said, you know, when when you're ready to go, like, I want to be a resident.
And that's very fucking cool to hear. And so, you know, it's from a loyalty standpoint, you know, I think collectors should explore, explore the things you're interested in, explore the different projects.
Artists should do the same. You never know what's out there unless you look into it.
And ultimately, you'll find where you kind of feel like you feel the most comfortable.
Yeah, no, I think that you're spot on there. Couldn't could not agree with you more on what you just what you just added to those of you in the audience.
Again, I need to make sure that I issue the reminder now that we're officially an hour into the show.
In fact, let me just take a beat to kind of reset the room and make sure that everybody knows that they didn't get lost and they weren't they're not in the wrong space.
You are listening to color commentary. This is a show that we do every single Tuesday at 7 p.m. Eastern Standard Time.
And it's very much so an open space. We like to have these conversations, not just with artists, but with collectors, individuals that are running art houses and galleries.
It's meant to be a larger conversation with figures in the ecosystem and also, of course, to impart alpha because that's what everybody is looking for.
They're always looking for a way to get ahead and to stay ahead of trend. So the conversation that we're having right now, I invite every single person here.
If you want to step up to stage and you want to join him on like what you envision for the future of art on Bitcoin or on chain in general, please feel free to raise a hand.
I will bring you up to stage and we will welcome you with open arms and applause. That is very much so the type of energy that we like to have here.
But where we are right now in the conversation, speaking to the role of galleries and the role that is evolving for art houses, I think there's immense opportunity.
And I hope that we start seeing people challenge what the norms have been.
And I think that it's just so freaking important that we don't stagnate. We don't get complacent with accepting what has been right.
I think there's plenty to be said of even curating better exhibitions and being more thoughtful from the gallery side of things to who it is that we're exhibiting and what type of art we want to be putting forward to the world in given instances.
If you choose a season approach like as opposed to just continuing in a perpetual fashion.
So want to throw it over real quick because I am so thrilled to have him on stage.
I've listened to him so many different times and have yet to actually get an opportunity to chat with him.
Ed balloon welcome up to stage. My friend. How are you doing?
Hi, I was waiting for my applause. You said we were supposed to get applause when you come up here. So I'm going to ask and answered my friend.
I'm kidding. Well, not well since you already did appreciate it. No, thank you so much for the space and and having this conversation.
And yeah, I totally agree. I think what's unfortunate is for someone I've been out here.
You know, I hate saying this, but like now I kind of feel like it's a flex, but also it's like not really because I'm still learning.
Like, you know, I'm still like right now I'm like learning BTC and trying to figure that out.
But you know, I've been out here since like, you know, 2021. And I think what is what is very true.
And like you just said, like, oh, I don't don't be complacent. And I think what's what's really unfortunate is a lot of artists have become complacent
because they're exhausted. And I'm not saying I am why I am exhausted, but that doesn't mean I don't fight.
And I'm not very vocal on things. But it is very difficult sometimes when you're like, hey, you know, consistency.
I was like talking about this earlier about consistency. And, you know, a lot of times, unfortunately, in web two, because, you know, especially when we had the bull market, everything was just so quick.
And we we want to see short term gains versus long term. And and so because of that, we refuse to go the route of consistency and doing things that are consistent that have good curation and execution, right.
And hits every time versus, oh, we'll just do it one time. And then that's it. And and we were so used to that because it needs to hit one time and needs to be it.
But like consistency and being out there and doing it more and more. And and we've we've fought we've fallen into that culture of like, shorter.
And so the goal for us to be able to get to the things where we don't we're not complacent on patterns of just like, you know, following the old norms and things that don't actually benefit this ecosystem is for us to be able to create this world where it follows consistency.
And we're doing things that, OK, we're going to get it right this time. That didn't work out. But like, you know, figuring things out and and trying to be better than what you know what you did before.
And I think a lot of times, unfortunately, here in the space for some reason, especially since we are a space of disruption and we're doing things that we're like literally learning.
We don't give ourselves grace. I don't understand why how that happened or why that is the culture. But it's as if we aren't able to do that.
It's as if if it doesn't work out the first time, then, you know, take it out versus like working on it to make it better.
And so I think one reason for me, like especially in 2024, I've kind of been very vocal. I was like trying to, you know, for a good amount of time, I'm like, oh, you know, let me just sit back and do things.
But I've also been like, I don't know if I can sit back anymore. I just need to be loud and also do.
You know, I think being actionable is very important way as as you're saying, like, you know, I think a lot of times, too, what's what we miss a lot and is the conferences like I think
exhibitions, we don't do enough about like trying to showcase what we're doing in this space and and we and I don't know like I don't understand the disconnection with that.
I think even when it comes to planning, we do things last minute and we know when it's happening and we don't even think about like, you know, trying to like curate it to where it's like, oh, this is actually going to be an experience.
We don't think about experiences anymore. On top of that, we don't even think about experiences where what those that are actually in the crypto space are trying to experience it.
But also outside of the space, like why is it that we are not trying to because art is art, right?
Like those that are going to see it are going to like experience it.
And for some reason, we are also closed off about like, you know, who is going to be able to experience this work, this art.
And so that also is something that we need to be able to be really honest about, like, OK, when and when we're having these experiences, how do we also get people outside of the bubble, outside of this web space, right, to also be able to like experience this?
How do we do that? What else?
And I think that's pretty much it.
You know, I tend to go and win a lot because there's so much that is I don't have that's not a I wouldn't say it's a problem, but there's just so many things that need to be solved.
So many, you know, so many things that need to be fixed.
And so, yeah, but overall, I am in totally agreement.
I like I'm also a musician. Right.
So I'm always just like, OK, how do we find a way to champion all the mediums and all on all these chains?
Right. Like, I feel like the whole purpose of Web 3 is to be able to like really create this movement of artists and other things as well.
But to show that it's a movement and how we work together versus like, you know, us not working together.
And my hope is that Web 3 is able to really like, you know, smooth out the barriers that are here when it comes to tech, when it comes to art, when it comes to like, you know, even business decisions.
How are we able to make that work for a while? Because I think this is it's a necessity.
So so, yeah, there's so much good to unpack there.
And I really do want to unpack it.
I'm not trying to skirt it, but I need to kind of rewind the tape, so to speak.
You had mentioned something very specific about how you and other artists kind of had reached this moment of exhaustion.
Right. This tiredness. And I'm curious from the artist perspective.
So this question is very much so directed to both, you know, you and Nevin.
From the artist's angle, if you're feeling that level of exhaustion and you're looking for support in the ecosystem, what what is it that a gallery or an art house or any one of these other styles of entity?
Because I'm not going to continue with labels.
What could they do to reinvigorate you?
Like, do you do you see a path forward for the types of actions that they should be taking or they could be taking that would lessen the burden, so to speak?
I wasn't. I mean, did you want to go? Did you want me to go?
I'm sure having on the face and I just be hugging it up. I'm sorry, y'all.
I've been I tend to talk a lot, but it's because I care. I'm very passionate.
Yes, there's so much. I am a black artist if you're not aware.
And right off the jump, like, you know, there is barely any visibility when it comes to that.
Like, it is so disrespectful when it comes to like these art houses, when it comes to fine art, when it comes to these things.
And you don't even see artists of the diverse world and this ecosystem.
You only think it's one way. And that's so sad because Web 3 is so vast.
There's so many cultures in here. And you're like, oh, my gosh, why does one that why is there one narrative?
And it's one narrative every single time. And or barely does any of it.
It's like sometimes I don't feel like the art houses do a good job with explaining the work because they don't a lot of these art houses don't really.
I mean, based off of what I've seen, I'm not going to say all of them, but based on what I've seen, unfortunately, a lot of times it's only money go up.
And so when that is only when that's the narrative, when it's only financial, then you don't even hear anything else about the art or why it's good or why you decide to curate that.
Curation doesn't even matter. People aren't even curating or like curating for a reason.
It's just like, OK, we're going to get the seven biggest we're going to get the seven biggest artists have sold X amount.
OK, great. And now we're going to put them in an exhibition and that should be enough versus OK, we actually want to do a theme.
OK, this works. We're going to put you in it. You know, these things that actually take, you know, time.
And I think that's what it is, too. And I think that's that's why the space is moved so quickly, because no one no one has time.
No one's thinking about, like, OK, why am I doing this curation? What's the purpose of it?
How is it actually going to benefit the artists, the space and us as well?
Right. Like and that may require like doing an IRL show as well as a digital thing.
Like, I feel like sometimes there is this there's this disconnect of like, OK, how do you what's the outreach and what's what's going to make sense?
And I just feel like in order for us to be able to like work together and for it to work, we have to have these conversations that are going to work for the artists.
Like this artist needs visibility that maybe if you're an art house and you have these collectors, you should be able to like find a way to make it work where you're able to put this artist in front of these collectors that you already have.
And the purpose would be more so just like, OK, these are these are collectors that trust in you because you are this this art house and they've always been trusted in you.
And they have this and you are showcasing this art that they've never seen before.
And and there's a reason to why you want this art to be displayed at this art house or to be in this exhibition that you are that you're putting together.
And but I feel like, unfortunately, there is this there is this disconnect where these art houses and maybe sometimes even the artists who they're not we're not able to like really fully flush out the purpose of the work.
And I think sometimes, too, that also hinders us when it comes to like, you know, really like beefing up what we're doing and why the space is so important.
I think sometimes, too, we don't like I feel like when when we have these like collaborations with our houses, where our houses or those that might be outside of the space will want to get in and, you know, could be a positive to the space.
We we miss that when we're not able to really connect what we're doing here, like the differences, like the different worlds, like the digital, like, like why it's different and why this is important.
And I just feel like we have to be able to, like, be on the same page. And I'm not sure if we're there. I think a lot of times, too, we're like, so a good amount of people, a good amount of people, a good amount of the artists in the space.
I feel like, oh, this is what it is. We have to follow what it is like this is the this is how the tradition walk it is and stuff like that.
And sometimes I'm like, OK, but this is what we do. We're doing now. And what does that mean? Does that mean that you can't work without our house because you're kind of on this, you know, you're on this wave and they're not there yet.
Does that mean you kind of have to like, you know, are we willing to like sacrifice, like, say, say, say no to some odd houses because they're not willing to like, you know, you know, be in alignment with us.
Are we willing to do that? And I feel like sometimes when I want to do that, which is weird because I feel like just being in Web 3 is already a risk.
It's already like figuring things out and we're already like we're disrupting. And I feel like we disrupt.
We just I don't know. We we disrupt where it's convenient. That makes me know it's actually funny, the way that you just put that together like we are in a place where it's so disruptive, yet no one wants to change.
And that's such a powerful thing to realize because the curators need to up level what they're doing and they need to be a lot more visible and show a lot more intention for the houses that they represent, because in a lot of cases, there can be curators in residence, but you haven't seen that happen.
There can be, you know, more meaningful artists in residence programs, right? But you don't see that happen because we have we've already established paradigms and they have to be as the paradigm had said.
So it's it's very it's very funny that it's kind of all happening that way, but it requires an open mindedness to change. And I think you're right.
I keep saying, yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. And I think there are some people that are actually doing what you just said that I'm not going to say that like that there aren't people doing there, but it's not enough.
You know, we've been out here for quite some. I've been out here for quite some time. There's not enough. There should be so many. There should be so many residencies. When we came when I came here, I should have been like, OK, that's what we should be doing.
And I just feel like it's unfortunate because it's it's as if we aren't able to. And maybe this is something that you can also answer because for the longest time, it's always been collected in the space are not
they're early as unlike they were always like they were like crypto, you know, they're just crypto based. That's all it was. And then so when it came to art, this is like new to them.
This is new to them. And so that they aren't really there. You know, when it comes to collectors, they have to like learning. It's like the new it's just all new to them. And so that's just been it.
But I'm also just like, I don't know, like, how do we how do you deal with that? Like, how do you deal with I don't know if it's an educational thing, but like it is a barrier where, you know, as as a collector, you want you want collectors to be able to like understand work and be able to like learn how to be able to collect or are able to explain the work that they're collecting and why they do it.
And it's not it's not a difficulty. I don't know. My question really is more so just like, is that also an issue? And how do we how do you fix that? Or is there is that something to fix? Or is that just with time? Also, and if that's a time thing, does that still also have an effect on, you know, these residencies or these art houses teaming up with these platforms?
Because those are the classes that they want to engage with and approach and and maybe the work there should be honestly like helping and developing the collectors to be able to like, you know, be better collectors.
No, it's a it's a good question. I want to deflect that over to prison because I'd be interested from the angle of somebody who is running, you know, in a pseudo art house slash pre gallery.
We keep throwing around these bullshit terms, who's who's running something that benefits artists. How about that?
Yeah, prism, prism. What do you what do you think? Is it time or is it something else?
I really like the way that Ed just said that, like, not like educating, but more so like collectors being able to explain why they appreciate something like why they like a piece, why they collect from an artist.
More so than than just, you know, face value the art itself. I think that's that's really important. I think connection is really important. It's a really, really crucial thing, especially in this space because, you know, it's a global thing.
Everyone is like none of us will will will very rarely will we ever be like side by side in person. And so building connections is is really important.
And and I think that like the more that a collector can can connect to an artist and the same for an artist, the more that an artist can connect with collectors, I think there just becomes this greater understanding of one another.
And the more exposure, it's really hard to like sit down and educate. But through exposure over time, you sort of pick things up. And I think that's naturally the best way for people to do sort of learn.
And so it's really about consistency, like you were talking about before, you've got it, you've got to stay consistent, and you've got to, you know, always kind of be be pushing, you know, where you want the space to go.
So, and I appreciate how you said that. I think that's, that's something to think about, man. How can we, how can we in our position, put things out there in a way where collectors can come away with it, understanding why they want to collect something?
I think that's really interesting.
Yeah, I only say that too, because collectors, you know, have friends too, that may, you know, be interested in collecting. And so it only it's a thing where, okay, word, like it's a pass along and I don't know, it's something where one person passes on to the other, and that's how it becomes a thing, and then people are able to learn that way as well.
But I feel like you are kind of, you know, your, your anomaly, the counterfeit crew is doing what they need to do. I told you, like, I came to BCC because and I was like, Billy, you know, and I came, actually, I think Troy, not to show who told me like, what the count, like, y'all, but like, I came to y'all and I was like, oh my gosh, this is what I was like looking for.
And, but I'm also an artist, right? So like, immediately I came to this space. I'm like, okay, I mean, shout out to the DJs, but I was like, I need to, like, I know how this goes. I need, I need, I need to find the art, I need to find the homies. And then, you know, I found y'all and but that's the dope thing is you're very consistent, like there's things that you do that are very consistent that a lot of people don't do, or they do it for a bit and then they
do it. And I think the beautiful thing is that you have currently, counterfeit has a community where, you know, it champions the consistency and like, okay, when's the next thing? When's this? And that's the engagement that you need to showcase, like, okay, well, that we have people out here that want to see one, that want to continue to see this going. And then you also have people outside the space, I mean, outside the chain, coming to the chain, say, oh, wow, this is what's happening. And so that's, but you only got to this point.
You could be here and like last year, whatever was going to be this way. And the reason why you're here so far, like, is because you've been consistent. The reason why I was able to see what you were doing is because you walk assistant, right? And that's kind of what needs to happen. A lot of things that are falling on each is because it has not been able to be consistent because, you know, I think sometimes there is a beauty of building during the bear, right? Sometimes because you're able to like, you know, move at a pace or maybe a slower pace and you're
like, okay, well, you're kind of moving too fast and not able to think. And so I really commend you for what you've been doing and how you have created this space. And others, too, on BTC, where it's like, oh, we're really going to champion the art. And because that was something where, especially there was like a point on ETH, where we're like, oh my gosh, what's going on? And a lot of artists were like, okay, let's break away, let's go to other chains, which is a dope thing. And we
still love ETH and all the chains, right? But like, I think when I came to BCC, I was like, oh, this is the vibe I was really looking for. I was looking for other artists and stuff. And I think what I'm trying to get to is consistency is going, like, it doesn't always happen in like, you know, in a short time, we really have to be consistent with it because in order for you to be able to get to places, like you have to have work, you have to have proof, we have to have those, like, and I just feel like sometimes in
prison, you are honestly the example and a few others, but you are the example of like, okay, just keep going. You got to keep this, we got to keep going. You're able to like navigate as well. I guess also, I don't know if you want to talk about that. But like, that's also really important to like showcase like, you know, longevity and things. Yeah, no, the way that you the way that you showcase those things in prison, I'm going to send it right over to you in a sec. The way that you do showcase those things and you the way that
you have the art house and the artist is absolutely imperative. There's no bit like there's nothing more important to your long term success, right? Again, this entire conversation revolves around the concept of longevity, right? How art on Bitcoin can actually have longevity going forward. Now, I want to make one quick point. And then we're going to go to the final two hands in this conversation as much as I would love to keep it going. I typically cap the show at 90. We're going to go a little bit
past. But the point that I wanted to drive to is there's another issue that I started to tap on today, ever so gently, because I didn't want to just go breaking down the entire system. And it's that of this idea of like how we continue to force a point of competition, we continue to force points that do not allow us to uplift one another. And I
pinned it to the top, just as the example, not as a matter of trying to promote my own shit, because I rarely do it. The entire world that we live in here is and has always been so PvP. And it's been PvP to the point, like that we ultimately are each other's downfall. So what I would encourage is like, we need more of these centerpieces and these posts that are willing to
collaborate. So that even means like having arguably like consortiums of galleries, right, or bringing together gallerists and art house leaders into rooms to figure out how they can uplift one another and to improve upon the greater system that they're building. Right? Those those things have not existed up to this point. I think that it's it's going to take Bitcoin and the art houses over here in the galleries that emerge over here to get past PvP.
So Prism, I'm assuming you had a response to what I was saying. I want to throw it back over to you if you still remember it.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I just wanted to correct it. Building through the bear. If you can make it, you've done the hard part. But it is it is no, it is no place or time to sit back and slow down.
It's it's the perfect time to, you know, you just mentioned BFP, but it's a repeat PvP. It's the perfect time to use that energy to push yourself.
Like one thing through this bear was like, yeah, like things were missed. You know, we we delayed things a few times. We, you know, we definitely weren't perfect.
But no one was going to work us like no one was going to be out there like, you know, this is just something I told myself, like, no one is going to be out there the way that I am like, that's my goal. That's what I can do. And everything else will come from that.
And so, you know, all of these art houses that have stood up, I give I give everyone props for doing I see chief down there, too.
So now it's about, you know, learning from from the bear, the hard part and improving and pushing each other further.
And now over to our next speaker, VC, VC, what's your thought on all of this? Or did you have something else that you wanted to tap into?
No, hi. I'm actually the reason why I actually wanted to follow up on your, you know, when you guys were talking about as far as collectors, why people collect.
I can tell you, let me just give you I'm going to give you the like really short version. Okay, personally, I've been in Bitcoin for a little while.
But I have, you know, I and and in other I also have been explored other chains as well. I can tell you one thing's for sure.
I never, ever understood the purpose of buying an NFT and on on Ethereum, mainly because I just didn't understand how to value it.
And I, you know, and I just, you know, I would say I am. I am definitely I mean, to say I'm not a Bitcoin maximalist, but I am definitely Bitcoin.
When when art came to Bitcoin, that's when I became interested in art on, you know, in collecting some art on chain.
So, I mean, I've never done for Solana Tezos. I don't know. I've never done it. I didn't even know Tezos existed until a few months ago.
I have never done a Solana transaction. I am a an ETH minimalist and I've never ever purchased any art except I did buy a few Luna NFTs, but that's a whole other story.
But anyhow, when I got into when I found out about ordinals, you know, when ordinals came out in February of last year, I mean, I'm say January, February, whenever.
Then, you know, of course, it was like, you know, it was the bear bear market. It was right in the middle. You know, we all needed something to pay attention to, besides just being in the middle of a bear market.
You know, I came to Bitcoin for the money for the for the asset. My background's in finance. I came to Bitcoin for the money and for the assets, but I've never really resonated with the whole laser eye community.
So I just, but so to me, you know, ordinals, when that with that whole idea of doing something of like this culture and like more interest, you know, more activity happening on Bitcoin and
activity and building on Bitcoin, that all just made a lot of sense to me because I was actually just as an aside, I was really much involved in like doing stacks of stuff.
So stacks was actually the first community, I would say they really started to get in and started building ordinals, you know, some infrastructure right away.
So, you know, the reason why I'm drawn to to buy to
collecting art on Bitcoin is that, number one, first of all, like the whole community, the ordinals community, you know, especially, I mean, artists specifically, but then also just people that are drawn to the community.
What I'm finding is that they really understand Bitcoin fundamentally, they understand the they I mean, they just get it.
I've just I'm just kind of amazed when I hear artists, you know, when they talk about the, you know, about what the value of the network is and the value of on chain.
And then, you know, and almost like money is just the money part is almost kind of a secondary thing, but it's mainly more about what the value is of the network.
And really, at the end of the day, I really think that's what, you know, the Bitcoin network is what gives the Bitcoin its value anyhow.
So, so I guess, I guess, you know, as far as that's, you know, for me as an as a collector on ordinals, I that's the reason why I just kind of like connect with the people that are in the community, because they're people that are building and they're people that understand Bitcoin.
They understand it from a bigger from the bigger picture of what it is.
And honestly, as far as I know, I kind of wasn't quite sure what you guys were talking about as far as like, you know, I think as far as like, you know, we're talking about, you know, you know, IRL, like brick and mortar, IRL, art world versus, versus web three, you know, to me, it just seems like just a matter of time.
And I've said this before, because you can't really you can't I mean, you don't see anyone from web three running out to like, try to, to be part of traditional art.
I mean, there are people doing that, but you don't see that.
It's like, you can't really expect, you know, I think in time, what happens is, is people are going to just assimilate.
And then, you know, you've got like people from the from the from the brick and mortar, IRL world are going to just be coming into into like digital art, because it is, I mean, let's face it.
I mean, it's kind of like it's, it's, it's how we're, it's, it's the future.
I mean, it's the present and it's the future, it's how things are going to be.
And it's just a matter of time.
And I think right now we have a few good examples of, you know, very prominent institutions that are digging deeply into digital art, and especially ordinals.
So anyhow, that's kind of what I, you know, I just wanted to like follow up on what y'all were asking about the about the whole collective thing.
Yeah, they're all all really good points made.
And I wish I could continue to take that deeper, because there's been, there's even been some contributions in the comments that I think they need to be, they need to come to light.
And I think we've honestly gotten to the root of a couple of pieces of the conversation, but I think it does need to be something that continues from here.
So allow this to kind of just be my one way of saying to everybody in the room, regardless of whether you're a collector, a curator, a color commentator to run into the space, or even if you're running a gallery or an art house, you need to be considering the way that we engage all together and how we can continue to push each other's experiences forward.
These are the things they're going to ultimately add up to longevity in our space, and we need to really strive for that.
We can't just accept, you know, the model that the Traddart world has given us. It needs to be bigger. It needs to be better. It needs to be disrupted.
So I would challenge everybody here to be thinking a little bit about that as we go into the evening.
But again, I want to thank everybody who's joined us up on stage.
VC, Ed, thank you so much for coming up and sharing your takes. The collector perspective and the artist perspective are just so freaking important.
So I really appreciate both of you for spending some time with us today.
To those in the audience, appreciate you for coming out and supporting the show.
I wouldn't be doing this were it not adding value back to you and your time.
So I appreciate it. Of course, big shout out to Nevin and Alex, who joined us earlier.
Well, Alex and spirit slash and sleep because he's got his drop coming up on Monday.
That, again, is fragmented frames.
Please, please, please go give them a follow and make sure that you keep an eye out for that collection.
It's going to be a really, really great drop.
And last but certainly not least, huge thank you to you, Prism.
It was great getting the chance to chop it up with you today, both on your space and on this one, about everything,
galleries and really providing alpha for artists on what they should expect of their experience,
whether it's working with galleries, art houses or just greater curational institutions going forward.
It really has been a pleasure.
So I want to go quickly to you, Prism, for final thoughts.
And then I want to make sure that I leave everybody with a little last bit of alpha before we go.
So, Prism, I will leave you the mic for final words.
Well, thank you for the space, Stephen.
It was great and always good to to chat with VC and Ed and Nevin.
Yeah, I think it's just, you know, it's so easy in the space to look day to day and kind of like move really quickly.
It's much harder to have and keep a long term conviction.
And that's just what we need to do in the art space, because, you know, the time will come.
And, you know, as we see more activity, I mean, Bitcoin's at 50K and no one has texted me.
So we I think we're going to go much higher.
So when we when we when that happens, you know, then the crowds come in and then and then things get a little bit more interesting.
But every day approaching it as if, you know, keeping that long.
Why are you even here? Why do you own Bitcoin, period?
Because you believe it's you know, it's it's it's something that will change things long term.
And I think that's the approach that we need to take.
And and also, you know, I think, you know, approaching the space each day, sort of bringing where you want things to go.
I think that's that's really important.
So if if you're frustrated, if you think things should be different.
I mean, this is I'm pretty sure I told Busy this back in February of last year.
Like, why can't it be us? Like, why can't it be you?
If you have an idea, if you want to change things, go for it.
This is the perfect time to do it.
I absolutely think it's a perfect note to wrap the conversation on again to everybody that's here.
I appreciate you endlessly to the family over at the TDA who came out and supported the show.
Appreciate every single one of you.
Of course, please make sure that you are in the daily alpha spaces Tuesday through Friday from at 1045 a.m.
Eastern Standard Time, 1130 a.m.
On Saturdays, it's TDA or stay poor.
Final wrap for the alpha on the show just to make sure that everybody is getting it.
I posted two things at the top.
The first piece is my anti PVP manifesto in spaces.
It is a larger calendar of weekly art spaces on X.
If you want to check out some of those, I think it would be a phenomenal thing for you to do to keep the conversation going and to be pushing each of these space hosts to their max so that we can have a better, stronger dialogue here in Web 3.
But the other thing that I put out every single Monday morning is the all eyes on art digest.
That is at the top of the space as well.
So if you want to read through that at your leisure, feel free.
That is every single, you know, upcoming curated meant that I have found within the art scene across multiple top chains.
I do want to highlight a couple of them real quick just because I really am very bullish on a couple of these upcoming collections.
And I think they should be on your radar and you should do some more research into them.
Again, I listed in my profile.
I am not a financial advisor.
In fact, I'm a non-financial advisor.
So please, please do your own research.
I am really very much so looking forward to an upcoming drop.
And I'm sure that plenty of the Bitcoin people in here are going to cringe when they hear this on Solana.
It's one of very few that get me really, really excited about Solana drops.
But it is coming from Lionel Radisson, a.k.a.
Machia 135 just tomorrow.
The allow us is opening at noon.
Eastern 1 p.m. goes public.
And that is on code canvas.
It's called Faster Than Light.
I think I just think it's a really, really great looking generative collection.
And I've the utmost respect for Machia.
He's got a great, great portfolio of work.
Then on Thursday, we have Miss Metaverse coming from Anna Maria Caballero and Melissa Widerecht.
That is debuting during NFT Paris at the Gazelli Art House or through the Gazelli Art House.
I am really impressed with how they managed to collaborate on this because typically there's like this really weird
split of how you can tell what one person's contribution to a piece is and the others.
And in this specific collection, they managed to really, really, really effectively blend their talents respectively
in a way that looks super cohesive.
And you can very much so say like this is their effort at a real material collaboration.
So have to give some love to that.
Then lastly, again, we've brought it up earlier on the show Monday Fragmented Frames by Alex Kizzo and Evan Johnson.
Please make sure you are marking your calendar for that one.
I think it's going to be a really special collection that I think everybody should keep their eye out for.
But otherwise, guys, there are so many great projects minting right now that you should be keeping your eye out for.
And as this show is kind of built around, please go support artists in this space.
If there's one call to action, it really is that.
Besides that, the secondary is this.
Please join us next Tuesday, 7 p.m.
Eastern Standard Time for another color commentary.
I have been Stephen Miller.
It has been an absolute pleasure.
I hope you guys have a phenomenal rest of evening.
It's been a great show and I will see you on the flip side.