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Community Connect #4 - Dean Tribble x Rowland Graus
Recorded: Jan. 16, 2025 Duration: 0:47:23Space Recording
Full Transcription
I Thank you. Thank you. How's it going everybody? We're live on X YouTube surprise. We're on LinkedIn and we're also
streaming this into Discord as well. You know, we're super excited to be on a multicast so many
platforms now, but you know, we wanted to make sure that the community connects moving forward.
We're just accessible to everybody.
We know that, you know, we were exclusively hosting them on Discord.
But, you know, it's super important for us, at least, to make sure that everyone gets the good Agoric gospel.
So there's a lot of information that our guests today are going to be giving to you all.
So, again, I'm here with my co-host.
And yeah, thanks for the intro, Miguel.
And hello to those that don't help me.
I'm JD.
I'm a community operations site here at Agoracopco.
Many of you will have seen me around Discord or Telegram.
Some of you, this will be your first time seeing me
because it's my first time being on a live stream.
So, yeah.
Yeah, JD.
So, I think super excited here.
We got two very important guests,
and I know that they're super excited to present.
There's a lot of things that community has been asking us about,
and we just started.
We're in January.
Again, if you're watching us in the future,
make sure you retweet comment, like, engage.
We always respond to the comments
when they come after the fact.
So if you're watching us in the future,
thank you, thank you, thank you.
We appreciate that.
And then also, if you are watching us live,
we see you too.
You can leave comments on all platforms,
LinkedIn, X, in the Discord,
and also on YouTube. So we're excited to kind of see you guys all roll in today on this beautiful
Thursday, at least on the East Coast. There's some sun out. It's not great. So it's a very,
very nice day to have a conversation about Agoric today.
and what I got today.
Cool.
Cool.
And yeah, just to add a little,
this is gonna be a little different
than our usual community connects
for those who have been tuning in in Discord.
This is less of the AME format that we've had in the past.
We'll be having our guests, Dean and Roland,
going through a presentation.
And I expect many of the questions that were asked
to be answered throughout this presentation organically.
And so, yeah, I think that's the only little bit
I want to just add from my side.
Back to you, Miguel.
All right, 100%.
So again, appreciate you all for tuning in.
Next time we see you after the transition,
we'll have our guests.
So we'll see you in a second hello community hello roland hey everybody as i said we're going to go through
a presentation but uh it's as much uh talking as you much talking and conversing and interrupting each other
as it is making a presentation.
But I'm really excited to be here.
I'm so happy to be on a medium that includes faces, that feels more connected to me.
And I know that one of our big focuses, as you'll see, is going to be helping to grow
the community and growing community engagement.
So as he says, if you comment or question, they'll chase me down. They'll get answers for you. So I look forward to
your questions there. So with that, I guess we'll go to the next slide. So we have a large
team. They are spread out across various places from Canada to Pakistan.
Now, does that count?
And you can see, and we have the occasional all-hands meeting.
This has many of the people involved.
And with occasional outside guests, like here,
you can see some of the DCF folk visiting to tell us about the status of activities over at DCF.
But I just wanted to share that, you know, there are real people
behind all of the names that you see in Discord, just like we know there are real people behind
all of the names we see from you guys and you all. And so, you know, the team has grown.
We've been stable at around 40 people over the last year or so. We've got a couple of open heads that move around on an
occasional basis. But it's a great team, really focused on getting orchestration in particular,
but in general, the platform working for you all and third-party applications up and launched on
the platform. Next slide. So 2024, we talked a lot about that
at our previous community thing.
The main thing from a technical point of view,
I mean, we did lots and lots of stuff
that we'll talk about in a little more detail,
but launching orchestration in the core API,
getting projects and builders excited about orchestration
because it really solves a problem that they have.
That as the world has moved to multi-chain
and you've got all these connected things,
people are realizing that it's hard to program that stuff
and we can make a real big difference there.
So we announced partnerships with many people.
I've got a more detailed slide here,
but working closely with Noble and Native and LS Network
and more in the hopper that the project is starting to spin up.
And we've been focusing on chain abstraction,
which we all helped us near Flashbots, Everclear,
really kicked off an amplified chain abstraction in February.
But our little space of that world, the orchestration space,
of being able to program all these multi-chain, cross-chain scenarios, you know, which is sort of is the next step beyond chain abstraction.
And we've already been shifting to that being really its own thing.
So we've grown that, you know, lead share of voice in that.
We've grown our followers, et cetera.
So these are all things that we're going to build on going into 2025.
So the next slide, I talked about, you know, these various partners.
We've been expanding that.
If you've seen the various announcements, you know, partnering with the union on how we get to ETH, working with Axelor on getting to ETH, Skip, Anchorage, Baratracks.
I mean, all these folks are one way or another connected with orchestration.
And so, you know, most recently you might've seen Emurgo,
which is, you know, Cardano folks looking at
how do they connect to the world
and all the other chains using orchestration as automation.
So next slide.
And I'll let Roland speak to this
and I put in the red highlights.
Yeah, sure.
And so just looking back at 2024 and what we shipped during that time, a lot went into it.
So we had five different network upgrades and this doesn't include votes that might have gone through.
If you're a validator, you likely voted on more things than this during 2024, which would include contract upgrades and things like this.
These were chain upgrades.
And so a through line that you'll notice is continuing work on sort of the low level performance parts of the chain,
which don't get as much conversation or hubbub around what they're actually accomplishing,
because I think it tends to be in the bowels of the technical details.
But each upgrade included a bunch of important fixes and improvements there.
And so that was an exciting through line.
We made improvements to the wallet contracts.
That was early in the year.
We made improvements to RBC queries.
We launched Orchestration Core.
Just recently in January, we shipped Upgrade 18, which included address hooks, which is something that you'll see more from our team coming soon, but is a really exciting feature built within orchestration or that enables orchestration where an agoric address can sort of represent a complicated set of behavior that would trigger after you send it to that address.
And so we've been calling that address hooks.
That's critical for FastUSDC, which should be coming soon.
And so a lot happened in 2024 across a bunch of upgrades.
And so I want to also take this time to sort of thank the validators that worked with us
on testing all of these and went ahead and performed the upgrades themselves.
Thank JD for some of the
coordination on the Agoracopco side. And then also our kernel team who've been heavily involved in
making sure that testing goes well and things like that. So yeah, it was a busy year.
Go to the next slide. I want to expand on that validator point. So upgrade, you know,
the other thing that upgrade 18 highlights, and you saw in several of those things like
performance improvements or critical fixes, or, you know, I mean, and sometimes it was issues that we had and, you know, stuff with
pressure in unexpected ways. Sometimes it'd be underlying Cosmo stuff that we would tickle or
interact with. This is a graph over the last several months where you can, this is about like
the bottom one is time for a block to happen or time for a transaction in a block to happen.
And it would go up.
There was what we called slow block Fridays, where every Friday, for some reason, blocks
would all get slow.
And validators were dealing with this and putting up with this.
It's like, OK, it's now long enough that it tickles Cosmos and things are disconnecting
and all that sort of stuff.
And it's something that we've been noticing, measuring, working on for a while.
But the other thing is over the course of the last six months, right, a lot of the focuses has been or a lot of kernel side work is building monitoring tools and tools to be able to see this stuff in real time on the chain. And so the first is the awesome impact of upgrade 18, where you can see it's all choppy.
It's every, you know, every end of every week, the time to execute fairly routine stuff was going up because we were tickling some things that needed to be fixed and cleaned up.
Those fixes went out and all of those issues just evaporated, right?
Just, you know, you can see the drop there at the date of upgrade 18 going out that we
suddenly, you know, that the chain suddenly relieved all that pressure and it went back
to sort of the expected nominal, you know, five-ish second blocks and so forth.
And that has a bunch of things.
One is that dramatically reduces the load on the, you know, sort of the interrupt and
distraction load on the validators, improves the performance and gives us that platform
to be able to be rolling out all the stuff that people have been rolling out, you know, as well as, you know, rewards are tied to how
frequent blocks are. When blocks are slow, rewards are slower. So it gets us back to the nominal
sort of planned expected rewards from the chain. So there's so many dimensions. We're happy about
this, that everyone who is affected by this, you know, thank you for your patience, and, you know, and we're glad to be back. And these tools are now there and present,
and we'll be describing them more generally, and the team that built them, they're all in a platform
where we can make viewing these publicly accessible, so anyone in the community can see them, ask
questions, you know, and or grow and extend them.
So just, you know, making the chain and the execution of it.
I mean, it was all there for you, but you really need tools to see what's going on.
And so adding this instrumentation is one of those things that, you know, the kernel team has been doing in order to make this stuff more visible.
And when you can make it more visible, you can make it more sustainable and maintain.
The other thing I want to do before we go on to the next slide is on community.
Now, I had a separate slide on DCF, right?
The Centralized Cooperation Foundation is, of course, one of our biggest other community
members.
It's the independent foundation.
And they handle IST.
They did all sorts of things, right?
They got BitMart and CoinsPH.
They funded the Range Project.
They've got the MemeCoin Project, whose name I shall not mention, heading out and, you know, was waiting for this nice choppy sawtooth, right, to be able to go away, to be available.
They've been driving the Econ Committee and a bunch of the IST growth.
And so some of the
work that we did was in support of that. But the other thing is just I wanted to recognize them as
a major community, source of community and central focus of things. And I didn't show the slide
because they're going to be a guest on the Community Connect upcoming. And so yeah, I said
a couple of the things that they do, but I wanted them to be able to show it all themselves. So, thank you, DCF. I know some of you are out there watching,
and I look forward to hearing all the details that you talk about at the next time here.
And actually, just to sort of add on here, looking at these graphs, if you're not a validator,
you're not an engineer, and it's not clear sort of how to put this in context for you.
The way the way I like to think about it is the reason Agoric can uniquely do orchestration is because we have this different system that is inherently asynchronous and passes messages around and has complexity that other blockchains haven't had to deal with yet.
And what we have been doing is dealing with that complexity. And so as we're starting to
get it under wraps, it's allowing things like you mentioned the MemeCoin project was waiting on this
to go out. That's the sort of thing that we are working through and sort of getting to the point
where all of this is controlled. And that's really exciting. And so, you know, this is really core to being able to do the orchestration things that we're
going to market with.
Yeah, that thing you mentioned about the asynchronous world, right?
Orchestration is about being able to manage all of that.
And so we take that, you know, we take interchain connectivity and asynchronous communication
as what's fundamental about the world.
It's how, you know, it's fundamental about the Web2 world, you know,
where you've got orchestration layer talking to microservices.
That's the kind of thing we bring to the table.
That stuff is hard.
That's why it's taken a long time.
And, you know, and so getting it all to settle down and be tamed here,
you know, and get tools to be able to see what's going on is just a huge, huge move forward.
As well as, you know,
the other kinds of things you don't see here
is multi-chain testing infrastructure
because as you start to want to roll out a platform
that can do orchestration across chains,
well, how do you test that in a real enough environment
to be good for rolling stuff out robustly?
All right.
All right, Gene.
Yeah, summary of the one pager.
You have heard longer versions of the vision and
mission before, and that hasn't changed, right? It is, you know, we want a seamless multi-chain
world in which people can freely and confidently collaborate on their own terms, right? You know,
smart contracts are software that enforces the terms of a contract between third parties,
enabling strangers to cooperate and strangers to collaborate.
And that's always been the vision.
That is what the infrastructure is for.
And we have always seen that world as a connected world of, sorry, a world of multiple systems,
systems all connected asynchronously where you're coordinating the activity across them.
all connected asynchronously, where you're coordinating the activity across them.
And so orchestration is, you know, putting a name to this thing that everyone now realizes they need.
And that has always been what we've been building.
And so that vision of that world where you can come in to one place and access things from lots of places
and cooperate and use all these services that people are rolling out on a wide variety of systems and
blockchains, that is what we've always been building for. And so enabling millions to create
and or adopt those decentralized solutions is the thing that unlocks a new world of possibility.
It unlocks new economic opportunities, new ability to do business with people you couldn't do
business with, and with things like the AMMs and lendings and all these kinds of stuff, to be able to do it with
new kinds of financial opportunities and new kinds of economic opportunities. But indeed,
what we're building is beyond that, right? Voting is not necessarily economic, but it enables new
kinds of cooperation. The nice thing is the economic opportunities are the things that people
see and that drive them. And if you can do those, you can do the other kinds of cooperations as long as we keep our eye on the vision.
So we're very excited about how all these pieces came together with both what we're able to do and what people now need.
Now, as I said, we helped grow Chain Abstraction in 2022.
But, you know, and out of that, we established, we created the
orchestration category within it. But as we get towards the end of the year, it's clear that
orchestration is in some sense, the bigger thing, the bigger thing, right? Chain abstraction,
I can see my portfolios, I can sign transactions on any chain without having to care very much
about it. But what orchestration brings to users is that ability that I'm going to authorize
the thing that I want,
not one piece of it,
not transfer to here,
then separately signed to swap
and then transfer to there,
you know, to get my end-to-end thing.
I just want to authorize,
do that end-to-end thing, right?
You know, here's my money,
buy me that thing.
Here's my money,
establish that relationship over time
that I can revisit in two weeks, right? You know. Here's my money, establish that relationship over time that I
can revisit in two weeks, right? You know, the kinds of rich economic interaction and cooperation
that people have, we can build directly. So create that as a category in the market, which we have
succeeded at and now we need to grow, build this orchestration platform, which we now have, you
know, the first version out and people are starting to build on it, where it uniquely enables this seamless enhanced cross-chain user interaction. You can really
do this seamless interaction that absorbs the power and gives you the access to the power of
all these different services people are rolling out using unique technology that only works in Agorak, right? The multi-block actions and long
live contracts that can interact asynchronously, respond to timers, respond to notifications,
all that kind of stuff. With a plan, with our strategy went from going directly to end
user developers to, you know, from a go-to-market point of view, applications with users are the
ones that need this now, right? If they've got users, if they can see users, if they're already
engaged with users to know what they want, pretty much those users are always asking for something
that is cross-chain. Even if it's just a little bit, my money's over there, I want to use your
stuff, how do I get my money? How do I onboard to you in a way that crosses chains? And it goes from there to, you know, now I want to use the yield from whatever
it is you provided to, you know, buy me some Bitcoin or a stab or buy an NFT or pay my people,
turn it into USD and pay my people, right? So the, you know, building up the dev site so builders
can come in themselves. And our focus is on reputable partners that drive clarity and demand for orchestration. And then finally, you know, there are fees for that. And,
you know, spreads on trades and value, you know, a small, you know, basis points on the value
orchestrated that will be the reward to the blockchain reward to the orchestration infrastructure, reward to Agorak,
reward to all the participants in this kind of ecosystem. So that's sort of in a nutshell what
we have been building towards and what we are doing as a strategy. Our 2025 goals, right,
orchestration drive on-chain adoption. Actually, I retitled these, so I'm
going to just go on to the next slide that has these across the top. Basically, prove market
adoption of orchestration, right? And these are boiled out of our, you know, OKRs, if you're
familiar with that kind of thing, which we have additional goals that are not on here and much more detailed and specific around,
like the monitoring tools
and streamlining developer access and stuff like that.
But this core focus of prove market adoption
of orchestration, right?
Get reputable projects that you will recognize,
that you will use,
that lots more people than you will use,
launched on chain.
And multiple of those, as I said, are in progress and more in the hopper.
Reach, you know, that second bullet about orchestration is reach the TVL that's out there, right?
We're already working on the reach to ETH.
on the reach to ETH. We've got CCTV for USDC. And then we're working on other mechanisms with
We've got CCTV for USDC.
using Axelar, Union, and so forth to be able to not just connect to them, but write programs that
automate the process so that I can have stuff sent from Ethereum or started on Ethereum that
causes activity on Cosmos and vice versa. And similar with Solana, to be able to go and have stuff on Ethereum that starts there
and ends up in Solana or vice versa, uses some assets that are available on DYDX. We change from
having to figure out where my USDC is in order to cover some liquidation to, yeah, I can just keep
it all in DYDX and it's automatically moved over to where I need it if some liquidation has
happened. Those are the kinds of things that people care about and they're all cross-chain. and it's automatically moved over to where I need it if some liquidation is happening, right?
Those are the kinds of things that people care about, and they're all cross-chain. So get that sort of stuff building deployed on chain. Grow a large community, right? Moving to this multi-platform
thing where, you know, those of us have been in the industry, in various industries, and I have
lots of LinkedIn connections. It's nice to see that. I love that it's back to being video.
I love that it's media.
I like to see Roland's face when we're here because then I can see where he's going.
Oh, yeah.
And, you know, we listen to you.
You know, we hear you all right, Earth, Oscar, you know, many of the vocal voices out there.
And then I go, oh, that's a complicated answer.
Let me go build software instead, right? And build software instead. But we hear the community. We hear the ideas. We love the engagement. We love
the input. And we want to have more detailed exposure of what we're doing and what we're
thinking and how we're planning and listening to your feedback when you give it.
And then finally, as I said, orchestration
is coming out from the cluster of chain abstraction
to being the thing that can coordinate it all.
And a key there, as I describe it,
in the rest of the application space,
Web 2 has migrated to I've got a UI layer written in JavaScript, right?
It's connecting to a backend programming
that often is written in JavaScript, right?
There's Node or Express or what have you
that is coordinating the access to functions
that are on microservices, right?
You know, and sometimes the client
is directly going to all these microservices,
calling things, you know, Stripe and Shopify and a database for my data and, you know, and some authentication
mechanism that I'm, you know, renting from someone else and that sort of stuff and putting
it all together with business logic.
The same thing is going to be true in Web3, right?
Where you've got all these independent services,
you've got all these roll-ups
that are providing interesting economic atoms
that we can use, atoms in the lower A sense, right?
Components that we can use and wire up.
And you see that in Ethereum,
we've got contracts where people do operations
across multiple contracts,
but being able to do that in a large scale system across multiple of these services and across multiple of these chains. So you can use economic value providers and yield
sources on all these different chains and put them together. That's just a huge win. And so
orchestration is the glue that puts these all together. So we will see applications of UI talking to business logic layer that is orchestrating
the activity of all these microservices.
And so orchestration is the glue, right?
And we have a lot of unique value to contribute there.
We want to be that glue for a whole lot of the next generation of applications.
And there are people that hear that.
They recognize it, they know they produce huge value, and that it can be more valuable if it
can be integrated into more places, and part of more people's daily lives. And that's something
that we're, that we're quite excited to help with. So, and so I will then throw the, so what's the
reality of this, you know, over to Roland here.
Yeah, sure.
So this is a view of the roadmap, which sort of points out a few items we're working on in Q1, and then has a few items where we would prioritize them beyond that.
And I'll talk about the different columns, but I'll start with something that's not in
a column, which is something that we view as incredibly important, but it's not necessarily
product work, which is the support of builders that are coming to build and launch on Agoric.
And so there are groups which don't need considerable support, and they may only need
help on the security review towards the end, towards deployment. And there are groups that
come in and need more help, more help architecting what they're doing, or have gaps in the product
that need to get fixed before they can deploy. All of that stuff is a big part of what they're doing or have gaps in the product that need to get fixed
before they can deploy. All of that stuff is a big part of what we're doing is not included here.
And so I just wanted to mention that before I went because it would beg the question otherwise.
So with that, what are the three columns of areas that we want to make progress on in 2025?
Let me know, this is the product development piece, As you say, it's not some of the behind-the-scenes stuff which I can talk about.
Yes.
And yeah, it ignores PERF and it ignores a bunch of other things like that.
So within that, Dean spent some time talking about orchestration.
We view the expansion of the orchestration capability beyond the Cosmos ecosystem where it's currently
able to reach as a critical importance.
And that view is not only our intuition, but it's validated by going and talking to
teams, many of which want to build an EVM or want to build in Solana.
And just realistically, that's where the activity and assets are these days.
And so in Q1, we are focusing on the EVM expansion, and we expect that that will
be a similar solution for the Ethereum L1 and most, if not all, of the Ethereum L2s or side
chains that are EVM. It'll be dependent on the bridges we use and things like that, but that
will allow us to cover, for example, Ethereum L1, Arbitrum Base, Optimism, Polygon,
whatever the key EVM chains end up being.
And then also getting started on Solana.
And we've got Q1 Plus there.
I don't expect that Solana will finish in Q1,
but we are getting started on the expansion there,
which may actually start with an expansion of FastUSDC
to reach Solana.
That could be the fastest way to get there. And I'll talk about that in a minute. And then beyond that,
I view sort of additional ecosystems as sort of opportunistic, right? Like Celestia is something
that could take off considerably, and it is in our IBC neighborhood. And so that's something where
we're very interested in looking at how we expand orchestration there, so long as there is something
for builders to do with orchestration there.
And same with Hyperliquid, which, again, it's just something that kind of popped up in the last several months and could become a big ecosystem or maybe not.
And then the Move VMs like SUI or Aptos or Movement.
And then moving on, we have the FastUSDC product, which is launching in Q1 as a V1, and that will integrate with Noble Express.
And we see Fast USDC as a key way not only to sort of drive initial usage of orchestration, which, you know, from a product focus will help us see where are their gaps, where do we need to improve support? That sort of thing. But also start to drive money through it so that we have real activity that we can demonstrate and we can go
to builders and show how it works. But it then becomes a module that can get integrated into
larger solutions. And so that could mean integrating into Skip's go fast solver solution.
We've had a bunch of conversations with Skip about that.
Working with chains that do NFT purchases or any other specific activities so that you do one click Fast USDC plus activity. So, you know, a Fast USDC transfer from Ethereum and then purchase of an
NFT or deposit into a lending protocol or create an LP position somewhere. That's where orchestration
really shines. And we want Fast USDC to be a module that gets integrated into additional orchestrations.
And then an easy expansion to it, honestly, is Fast USDC into the Cosmos ecosystem.
And then another call is CCTP to go straight to Solana. And so what you do there is you solve
the long wait coming out of Ethereum, but you can, via Noble,
get to Solana or elsewhere. And so that could be a good expansion that expands the reach of FastUSTC.
You'll see the Q1 is tagged for the V1 launch and then integration into SkipGo, which, you know, that's something that we want to do to ensure that FastUSTC is part of Skip's routing solution.
to ensure that FastUSC is part of SCIP's routing solution.
Anything beyond that is likely opportunistic
and to be prioritized.
And then the third column here is really about improving access
and availability of orchestration solutions
to the kinds of things that we see multiple times
going out into the market.
And so token onboarding is an example
where an application wants to be able
to have their users bring assets from anywhere.
And again, one click, move the asset
and do the thing I want.
And so if I'm a lending protocol,
that means one click, transfer route, swap, deposit.
And building those kinds of libraries
and contracts and APIs for orchestration
such that those applications
can simply call an API, start to make it a lot easier to onboard versus having to have them
write their own contracts. And so as we start to see these repeated use cases, that suggests then
that we can productize that element. And that's going to be our direction for those core things.
You might notice that we also are looking,
and I think Dean has something to add on this too.
One of my focuses also,
as we now have orchestration live,
we want to make sure that we are showing
how orchestration can enhance things
that have a lot of activity in the space.
And so one of those things
right now is AI agents, for example. So AI agent protocols that are coming in on Solana, on Base,
on other ecosystems. And to the extent these agents have wallets and need to transact on chain,
they actually may prefer to use orchestration, which would give them an on-chain traceable, transparent way to interact that may solve a whole bunch of problems. And so finding
ways for orchestration to plug into those AI agent frameworks starts to be another go-to-market for
us. And that's early in exploration, but it's the sort of thing that we want to make sure that we're
make sure that we're taking easy wins for go-to-market of orchestration here.
taking easy wins for go-to-market of orchestration here.
Can I chime in?
Yeah, please do.
Right.
So, you know, I got into software because of AI way too many years ago.
And that's something where in the background, you know,
several people here have certainly been, you know,
tracking and interested and, you know,
worked on AI safety and that sort of stuff.
Was that three AI winters ago?
If only it was three, only three.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Never mind.
My first electronics project was to try and build a robot, right?
It would run around the house back in the 70s.
house back in the 70s. So the key thing here is, you know, AIs, their expressiveness has to do with
what are the actions, what are the primitives they can invoke, right? If you ask an AI to produce a
strategy to do some asynchronous coordination of activities across multiple chains in solidity,
it will produce something that you have no prayer of understanding and no assurance that it could possibly be right because the thing I asked for is ill-suited for what you can express in solidity.
And so whereas orchestration, that ability to say, oh, you want to, you know, redeem these rewards, move them over there and build up a position, that'll end up looking like, four lines of code that match the clauses of English that I just told the AI. And so being a
source to roll up the higher level aspects of functionality gives better tooling accessible
to AIs. Those same tooling are the things that a client-side API that an enterprise wants to integrate or a custody
provider wants to integrate to manage staking and automated rewards, you know, cross-chain,
right? Those things are the services that an AI could do very well in terms of providing
user agency with the AI helping the users or an AI as a business that is then selling the,
you know, I understand what you want.
Here's the strategy.
It's now implemented over there.
You can understand it.
Go, you know, go get your reliable, you know, stop loss infrastructure across multiple,
you know, app chains or whatever, right?
And so that ability to raise the level of the operations across chain that we're delivering
to being end-to-end use cases. Same thing humans want,
you know, businesses want, and we expect AIs will want. We have other things around AI in terms of,
you know, getting into the dev rels, helping do orchestration contracts and stuff like that,
but they're all sufficiently early. You know, they're part of a lot of the kinds of experiments
people are doing and there's good signs there, but, but that's, that's background activity to, you know, ship orchestration applications on chain.
So excited about,
excited about that background activity that I expect for the end of the year
will grow into real things that we'll be able to talk about.
All right, great.
I'm seeing Matej's comments in, in, in, in chat, by the way.
So we, we will respond to them here. But mostly, yes, I agree.
Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say, I think one got shown, Joan, on the street. And again,
what's not shown here is as we have teams building, we get feedback, there will be
upgrades to orchestration that need to get built. For example, notifications and ICQ improvements
is not on here, that sort of thing.
Those things are part and parcel of just having
a product live in the space, but we'll certainly
take a bunch of our attention as we want to make this
a good experience for developers.
So the other things that we should talk about that is not
listed on here.
So I mentioned that this is the product thing to working on in Q1, you know,
and then some of what we see in, you know, going into Q2, like, you know,
finishing out Solana and getting some Solana use cases, you know,
Solana use cases deployed and that sort of thing. The, you know,
but as I said, there's activity where, you know,
making available these system analytic tools, enhancing the developer experience so the people at hackathons can get started with cross-chain things more easily.
Because, you know, the programming can be easy, but a cross-chain test environment, you know, that's challenging to set up.
It is something that takes a lot of effort and time, and we want to provide the automation so that it's straightforward to be able to deploy that.
It takes a lot of effort and time, and we want to provide the automation so that it's straightforward to be able to deploy that.
We've worked with other people in the Cosmos ecosystem to be able to get that kind of tooling and, you know, gradually make it broadly available.
The other thing that comes up often is permissionless.
We will have more discussion of that, you know, generally with the community, you know, going into Q1.
My main focus has been decentralization, right? The chain is
permissioned, but it's permissioned by the build holders, not by Agoric, right? It is
up to the build holders, up to the chain participants as to what actually gets deployed.
So someone can come along, build a thing and get it out there without Agoric's involvement,
if they know what they're doing and want to drive that. DCF knows how to do that. They're independent. They've got
projects that they're building out. We support them when they want to follow the best practices
around some of these elements. But that decentralization is sort of, in some sense,
the most important point. The reason why things are permissioned, you know, at least part of it is, as Roland noted earlier, the asynchronous world
is different, right? You can't pay gas now for what a timer going off every day in the next while
is going to do when we're not really sure what that is. And so the model of how you pay
is naturally different and actually better corresponds to what businesses are used to.
But it does mean that getting that right so that it's easy and familiar and so forth is important.
The ability to asynchronous stuff means you can cue lots more activity.
of risks where the priority of getting decentralization and getting this foundation
and these use cases out is strategically right now, to me, higher priority. Many of the elements
where you saw on those upgrade lists of improve this, fix that, address these consensus things,
those are all on the way to making it so that we are robust against attack
by software deployed on chain.
And much of the hardened JavaScript
is all about making that generally true for JavaScript.
But then there's also the, okay, can you attack the timers?
I mean, there's all these things
where there's enough more services
that all need to be hardened,
all of which is ongoing, right?
So getting permission is absolutely something we care about, but it's not a, you know, oh, all you need to do is flip
a switch. Yes, we can flip a switch and, you know, then chaos ensues. Not a thing we want to do.
The fact that we've got more expressiveness and more power does make that, no question,
more challenging, but we will get there. We, you know, we've got, we know paths to get there. It's
just got to line up behind getting these milestones
out. There's one more thing I was going to add to that. Oh, yes. The other thing is actually,
go back one thing. So several of these elements are designed to step into enabling key extensions
to actually be permissionless, right? There's an important example with like IST. IST is, was a,
it was permission to get it out there. You all voted on it and, you know, independent econ
committee was, was, was voted on all that sort of stuff. And, you know, that's now, you know,
largely hands off by Agoric and directed by the community, by DCF, by EC and so forth. And we
support them, but anyone can permissionlessly create a vault, right? And lots of third parties can propose and get a vote
to get a collateral added.
And then there's multiple parties
that all have to agree in consensus,
none of which are agoric, right?
And so there's a lot of permissionlessness there.
Like I said, everyone can make a vault.
As we start to add these prebuilt solutions,
anyone will be able to instantiate them for their purpose.
And if you have a pre-built solution with a dimension of permissionless growth, you can
get people to agree to that, right?
You know, we've got amazing ability to produce NFTs that is not being used that anyone could
deploy, you know, get the community to agree to deploy an application that allows permissionless
minting of NFTs or permissionless creation of new authoring minting sources for NFTs, right?
So this is one of those things where very much a part of the vision, very much a part of the
mission, and very much not the engineering priority for this quarter to get the world connected so that, you know, so that we can get, you know, careful
deployment of high value use cases to drive the chain, the community, and the value to all of us
forward. So I just wanted to lay that groundwork. And I absolutely expect a response and, you know,
and a conversation over the next, you know, quarter and months. But there's as much interest inside of keeping that ball moving forward over time
to where we get close enough to go, okay, now we know what's going to put a ribbon on it
so we can ship that thing and flip more switches.
So that's all.
All right.
And so I think this is the end of our deck.
I know, you know, we're sort of largely at the expected time here.
And I know some questions we see coming in through StreamYard
and then some we probably don't.
And so what we'll likely do is talk to the community
and get Miguel and JD to sort of help funnel questions to us
and make sure we get responses back to folks.
And so Miguel and JD, if you're there, come on back.
Thank you so much for having us.
Yeah, 100%.
Thanks for having us. Yeah, thanks for having us. 100%. Thanks for coming on.
I think that in terms of questions, I think you all pretty much covered it.
They're really – everyone's just been so attentive listening to the both of you speak about plans and everything that we've gone through in 2024, at least up to this point.
So I think we don't have any other questions.
So I think you guys don't have anything else to kind of say.
Questions often come in in Discord later, and so we'll be ready for those.
Yeah, once everybody absorbs the knowledge and really comprehends what's going on,
like the power of Agoric and just the energy that we're bringing for the year,
I think we'll have more questions for sure. And for those of you watching us in the future, if you aren't already, leave those comments in
Discord. If you leave it on YouTube, reach out to us directly on LinkedIn and ask, our DMs are
typically open. So feel free sending those questions. If you want to work with us,
there's also an opportunity there to reach out and talk to us as well.
I will add one question on the AI thing.
Yes, orchestration API is accessible to like these ELISA frameworks are doing AI.
You know, that's the low-hanging fruit that we'd like to see, you know,
once we get orchestrated out.
Cool.
I look forward to more questions and seeing this thing over the course of the next several
months.
100%.
So with that being said, let's say goodbye to our guest, JD.
Appreciate it, Dean, Roland, for coming on and speaking.
And we'll catch you on the next one.
Hopefully, you guys come back.
Thank you all.
All right.
All right.
I mean, as expected, so much information,
so much to digest.
I think that community got their questions answered
plus more, which is of course natural with, you know,
the guests that we had on this and Roland and Dean,
you know, they're just always look into showing as much as they
possibly can and getting updates and you know alpha if you guys are listening
attentively there's some good information about the future for sure um but yeah jd what are your
thoughts yeah i think you know when we changed from the ama you know if you look at what the
questions that were asked they did a great job of just organically through this presentation
and some of those.
And Roland, great speaker as always.
And then Dean, his enthusiasm is just contagious.
And I feel like everybody listening
probably just got excited about what's coming.
I certainly got more excited listening to it.
Yeah, 100%. So again,
we appreciate you to the 250 plus that were watching us today. Again, it was testament to moving from just exclusively on Discord. So we're super excited that so many of you were able to
join us today. You know, we'll make those micro adjustments. So we're also open to hearing from community, the timing, you know, what day, you know,
so just feel free to, you know, reach out and let us know.
Maybe we could adjust the time.
We could always figure that out with our guests especially.
But if you saw that last slide, next week, Thursday, we're going to have the DCF on.
I know community has been having a lot of questions
about them specifically so again super excited to have the DCF team on. You know they're always
super helpful at least seeing your GORIC mission and with the support that they give us on a day-to-day
basis. Yeah and likewise I'm looking forward to that. We'll have another conversation.
I feel like some of the questions that we're asking
can transfer over because they're relevant to them,
but expect to have a thread to share your questions too soon.
That one will be returning back to our regular
start-and-scheduled programming.
100%.
All right, so JD, goodbye to the people. Again, appreciate all of you for joining and
tuning in today. Retweet, engage, share, comment, leave your likes. We see all of it. So again,
we appreciate all of you for tuning in today, but we'll catch you in the next one.
