Hi all, thank you for today's customer sub community call. Let's wait another couple of minutes to just see if anyone else is going to join. In general, today we are going to focus
about covenants that I just want to remind all of you while you're here that there are two Cosmos have a governance proposal in both imperial right now we have the 88 increased the community pool tax on the Cosmos have by simply staking. It's extremely important to vote because we are
are still we still need to reach the forum. So if you're available in the editor here, if any of you is an atom delegator, please remember to vote, cast your vote, whatever is your choice, we have to participate and reach the forum. Same thing about proposal 89, Cosmo
ecosystem news video from Cosme Palidator. Here we have the same participation. It will be really really good to reach for forum. The forum on both the proposals. So please just cast your vote. Let me see. I see
see that Rob really joined the call. Rob is a really active community member that joined recently a lot of Cosmos community hub core regarding Cosmos governance. I will say that he is quiet on top of everything that he's going on recently.
We also have the participation of the proposal that we were discussing earlier, so the community has research analytics and benchmarking that is still a draft proposal on the customer's hub forum. You can find the link to the proposal itself in the
in the Twitter space link. I will now let the word to Rob to just start introducing himself and his recent contribution and all the
story, but brought him to Cosmos and then maybe if we have Daniel or any other from the proposal team of the Community Hale proposal, maybe they can introduce themselves as well so we can be, we'll start the conversation. Welcome again to everyone.
Thanks for the introduction, everyone. I am Rob and I am a community member that has been active in the last two years in Cosmos. I mostly passionate about governance and everything around this amazing tech. Today we have an interesting discussion
because I think it's a good fit for the bear market which is community health and we have Daniel from L&D Dow and he basically has this proposal that will prepare a set of tools for community health, research and benchmark.
And the proposal will go through technical tools and also a philosophical approach to the community research that adding the added data is developing. They've done further research about what is the definition of community.
community, what about the thing Daniel, we can we will expand more on that. So please Daniel, if you can introduce yourself and your background and also be given the introduction of the R&D now. Sure, thank you, thank you very much. Thanks everyone.
Daniel, I'm an organization designer by trade. I've been for roughly the past 10 years thinking about governance and organization design, essentially different ways for humans to work together after having an earlier career in the food world and
And specifically in research and development, where I was trying to figure out different ways to innovate, to come up with new ideas as a group of people and trying to avoid all the politics and bureaucracy that comes from that. Then around 2018, I discovered Dows as kind of, as
experience of management and systems thinking and a range of other things now seem to be like the next very exciting frontier to be able to experiment and play end up last year as head of governance at Argonne and then December a year ago we started our endow and our endow is
innovation now if you like is a platform for different R&D projects. We usually start going very deep in research in a specific area and then moves towards crafting solutions after we have understood the problem really well. The reason for that approach was
that we are seeing a lot of people moving into web free from web 2 very quickly starting to prototype solutions and ideas and unfortunately organizations are very complex we very much believe that we need different perspective different disciplines coming together and if we're going to really invent better
organizations, better society, we need to bridge these different perspectives and come up with different solutions that's been done in the past. Hence the emphasis on research at the beginning and that's what brought us to community health as a topic of interest as many people were asking on Twitter, how do I measure community?
And they knew what the wrong answers were like. It's fairly well understood that the number of members on a discord chat doesn't mean anything is fairly well understood that the number of messages is a really poor way to track community. And in general, we have some ideas around what sort of things my
be good to build a community, like building relationships and so on between people, but we don't really know what are the what are great practices and we don't really know how to assess whether a community succeeds. And part of the reason for that is that some organizations might be very well known, not because they have a great community but
perhaps because they receive a lot of investment or they created a good protocol and so on. And they might be succeeding despite a series of bad practices around community. Yet a lot of these bad practices can be copied just because they are successful, not thanks to these practices, but in spite of them. So we wanted to essentially dig a little bit
deeper into this topic and understand what it is that we can do to really help DAUS and protocols and in general these new range of ecosystem that we are creating to take a more community-centric approach, move away from only looking at metrics like total value locked or things like that that are well first create
horrible financialization and second they're not even good for investors because they don't even provide you a good indication of whether an ecosystem or an organization is going to be successful or not. So that's how we started down the rabbit hole and now we're about eight months into this research and that's brought us to the proposal and what's being here.
Awesome, and I think this is pretty much very interesting because I think we are pretty early in all of this organization and we are yet to understand what is the right approach with the community, how we have to engage with the community because it's all experimental, we are in this initial experimental phase of
decentralized finance, decentralized autonomous organization. So it's always good to have specific organization that do good research. Now we can improve and especially in a fair way. So my next question will be of course how you're discovered
Why you picked up cosmos for this proposal? Why you think that the cosmos community is a good fit for your research? So if you can expand on how basically you discovered cosmos and shared this proposal.
Sure, thank you. I mean, I've been around for a very long time. I just haven't had the excuse to dive in. I was only involved from afar. I had a few atoms in a few years, but that was about it. Then, specifically, as we were advancing this initiative,
And the positive cosmos is particularly interesting from a decentralization point of view, the idea that we have an ecosystem of chains rather than a single chain makes it particularly important at the level of community because also we can have a few
organizations, let's say the Cosmos hub or the organization that is specifically maintaining or building one of the other chains and so on, the community tends to cross across them and there is some level of overlap in between them in this area and what ties the whole thing together, all the
than a little bit of technology, but like what really ties it together over time, because the technology will become obsolete very quickly unless it's maintained and refined and improved and so on. So what really ties this whole thing together over time is the community. And so whether the community is aligned or not, whether the community is healthy and is
people want to be part of and attracts more talent and resources and ideas and participation. Or on the other hand becomes a hostile place that people don't want to be part of that is draining where there is burnout and so on can really make the difference for for this ecosystem.
And then in particular, I think there is a good level of receptivity while there are other ecosystems that could equally benefit from these, but they will have a less sophisticated mindset, they're perhaps a little bit too stocking Web 2. So it will have been very, very, very hard for us to essentially
show them why this is important. Well, we thought that in cosmos we'll find a little bit more of a like-minded community that was receptive to these ideas and then we could move quickly to essentially advancing them and then hopefully for contributing to the success of cosmos we can then prove to other ecosystems that this is something
to value and pay attention to, while we can keep on knocking on a closed door and keep on trying to explain to someone who doesn't want to hear forever, and we won't have the ability to prove it. So we generally like a lot more to show rather than tell, and we thought Cosmos was a great ground to do that.
And also I think that cosmos being this ecosystem of ecosystem. So it's really a peculiar and unique community because it's not only one place, one ecosystem that has many upon own on top, but it's a connected
the community really take a different shape. And I think that in your research I've been really, you had been talking about the fragmentation of the community, which I think is quite ontobic because we had air drop and most of the time
an air drop lead also to fragmentation of the community because on the coming November maybe find that one of the air drop receive is a more interesting place to stay spend time. And this could be also very interesting with the upcoming dynamics of inter-fciences
security that basically with bringing many many more fragmented community around this big community that is cosmos, that is cosmos, but so speaking about what are the benefits of
What do you think about this aspect of fragmentation? Do you think that your research could help us to basically have a more active community when it comes to their coming features?
to face this fragmentation to kind of start to have a community that is also capable to understanding each others and so basically what your research actually will bring to Cosmos in terms of benefits for the community.
So it's still early stage to let's say realize the full benefits. So let me present it a little bit as a roadmap where we can we have to start small but as these advances we can look at more and more ambitious objectives while still trying to deliver some
value in the short term. So the first thing is once we deploy the tool, one of the first few indicators that we can start to look around is through mapping the shape of the social network. When we map the shape of the social network, there is in the literature review we don't.
with some of the network scientists that we work with, there is already a series of indicators that we have shortlisted that can be particularly interesting. I mean, we still need to run the algorithm with the data and so on. But one of the most promising ones has been something called the Small World Index.
And the small world index compares the shape of the social network of the Cosmos Hub, like with the data we're able to gather, to a theoretical, perfect network in terms of information flow. So, a small world usually means that you have small pockets that are cluster
where there is like a small group of people that really talk between them. And then these pockets are loosely connected to other pockets. So in practice, with one or two introductions, you're pretty much able to reach everyone in the network, but you're not hearing everyone at the same time, because that becomes overwhelming.
My gut feeling is that probably cosmos has not enough close to the realization. So it might be a little bit overwhelming. Some of the conversations and the shape is happening in the community and this tends to mean that a lot of people cannot fully engage because it will require too big a bandwidth.
to manage so many relationships and so many people coming from different directions at the same time, but in practice we don't know yet. So for example, if we were able to show these, we could now start to think of a few initiatives to try to create a little bit more pods or subgroups or try to essentially fragment a little bit more the community.
not in terms of the identity, but in terms of the way the conversations are happening, and this would lead to more effective information flow. So without us, let's say trying to dictate in any way what the outcome of conversation should be or the outcome of decisions, we could use this information to facilitate how the community is having conversations
conversations and making decisions between them or at least to pinpoint what sort of problems or directions the or initiatives might be necessary. The other areas that we can then start to look at is with other set of indicators, we can also look and keep
track of the general feeling that the community has, both in terms of how much they identify with cosmos itself, like do they feel themselves, do they see themselves as cosmos knots, or do they not really identify with it? And that identification is really important because it makes the difference of whether
people are willing to fight for something or persevere in the face of these difficulties or not. So if we see that, for example, identification starts to go down over time, there is a range of initiatives that can be done for that related to rituals, to gathering people and talking about what's the
what's the reason for being and so on. While on the other hand, if it's high, you don't necessarily need to do those sort of initiatives or activities. So providing these metrics already kind of gives a signal to the community a sort of mirror for the community to see itself and understand, do we need to pay attention
to these and invest time into these activities or maybe now we can focus in other problems. The other thing that you can start to see is what's the perception of the relationships between people? Are they strain or they're not strain and so on? And so at that point you can start to think, well maybe let's invest a little bit more in conflict resolution mechanisms and the way we
need to get some third party that offers these services or runs some workshops to express grievances and so on. Or conversely, this is not the top priority at this point and there is other priorities. So the different metrics in the short term already allows us, hopefully, well, or allows the Cosmos community to prioritize
initiatives and hence focus a little bit more on the things that would have the highest impact for it to thrive as a community. Over then the medium to long term, we can start to monitor the evolution of the community over time and see whether the initiatives that
have been taken are working or not. And as we start to then learn about what works and what doesn't, then we can further refine, do more of what's working, do less of what's not working. And hopefully the data allows us to see all of these, but we'll only be able to do it
to know it over time as we need to benchmark against ourselves. And so, you know, it was higher lower than before. So that's also the importance of kind of getting it started now. And in that sense, we have another proposal that's
That's more related about facilitating a governance process and one of the questions we're asking ourselves with is other proposal is kind of like how can we different success criteria. So also these two proposals are completely independent and they're being done by different teams in our endowals. I was saying we're kind of platform for project
or these are two different projects, it's slightly different teams, these slightly different people. But with these other ones, we had like, how do we know if we have succeeded or not? And if we are able to get the community health proposal passed and implemented in time, we will already have the date
that are there to know whether the other things are having an effect or not. As an example, so we can even help this sort of knowing what's working on what not can also translate to facilitating impact metrics or improving accountability on the sort of proposals that are funded.
Thank you for the deep explanation and before going into more the technical aspect of the proposal, I want to still a little bit touching about the community health idea and philosophical idea beyond because as I explained it just now basically
This is something that we let us into more coordination and also to find more alignment and decision, which I think it's something absolutely that is needed in any community to reach an agreement, but I think it's also very important
for a community and for an empty community is to preserve diversity because I think that having a multiple opinion it always has been an opportunity of the Cosmos to exist and because we have this wide community where any community member has a critical mind and I think this is a
of the best aspect of this community. So, how do you see actually diversity of community member and opinion in this old community health idea? Do you think that diversity is a part of this study? So, that community health is also actually adding diversity.
Yes, yes and no. So it depends how diversity is included. Diversity is really important to avoid things like group thing or self-confirmation bias is to essentially avoid being detached from the ecosystem. Because if you
Lose sight of the ecosystem you end up dying as an organization or as an ecosystem altogether. Like if you lose sight of the broader nested system that you're part of. At the same time, too much diversity in an organization or an ecosystem that doesn't know how to handle diversity can be very very difficult.
If I get people who in the same room, 10 people who speak each a different language and there is no one who speaks at least two of those languages who can serve as a bridge, most likely these people will not be able to agree on anything. So the complex bit there is how to essentially
maximize diversity without stretching to the point of breaking. And some of that comes down to inclusivity or like how effective the community is at assimilating people. So we don't have yet very good mechanisms to measure these or to explore these. This is one of the areas
areas because the whole community health thing is a huge topic. We can probably be researching that for the next 10 to 30 to who knows how many years, probably a lifetime. People have been studying it for lifetimes and I don't see that stopping. And we would hope to get to this soon. That being said, there
There are a few things we can already start doing in this regard. And maybe I can pass it to Katarina, who is here with us, who is one of my colleagues. And in many ways, more of an expert in these areas, who has got a PhD in organizational network excellence and team performance.
we can pass it on to her after, but one thing I could quickly say is that when we look at the shape of the network, if we see that there are two very, essentially two divided communities that are not very connected between them, just by the shape of the conversations, and each of these communities has
strong sense of identification, a strong sense of identity. And that one most likely you're talking about two very different identities. And these people perhaps be the case in in customers at the moment, given the whole context around atom to atom to I don't know if again don't know for certain, but if you're sorry to see
you then know that the issue is not so much a lack of identity. The issue is more that these communities are not having an effective conversation between them and that can be facilitated. So you can sort of have not an ideal indicator but some level of indication of what are the different identities or subcommittees.
communities as part of the overall community and play around with that to optimize it to make it work. As far as the individual diversity, we can talk of diversity of gender, of race, and all of these different things. This is not something we're addressing at the moment, partially because
were avoiding collecting any personal data, it would be very complicated at this stage to be able to collect and store that data safely. There are perhaps some demographic things that we could look into and equally we could try to look for professional backgrounds or different things like that. But as I'm saying, that's not yet something we're covering.
Thank you for this plan. I think that this is quite, it is quite taxidial at the moment. You touched the property too. So you're definitely updated about Cosmos and this is actually positive because I like that you are engaging with Cosmos.
also with the knowledge of the past and of the community. Also if anyone or a catarena also want to join the conversation, I think it's pretty to make a request, so we will have also other feedback on the conversation as well for anyone that want to make questions that they can also
use the chat on the bottom right of the Twitter space if they prefer making a question to writing. I will also go a bit on the technicals because your proposal you basically are mentioning about a discord boat. So it is the discord boat the
the tool that will be used to collect data mainly about your results. Yes, that's our starting point. We're already in conversation with another group who's also looking at voting data because the more
different data sources we have, the more of a comprehensive picture we can create. Then we need to figure out how to balance that with the, let's say keeping the cost of the proposal manageable and just starting somewhere and then building from that. So for us we're starting with the Discord data and other team is working on voting data.
And they reach out to us that saying that once they have an idea of whether they're going to be funded or not, they want to collaborate with us because we have a lot more background and let's say insights on the sort of indicators and how to manage the data while they could develop the technical solution just to capture the voting data.
So maybe at that point we could start to combine both sources. Then we could think if this initial pilot is working and is adding value to the community, we have proven ourselves and so we have been able to generate a little bit of trust. Then we could also include a next phase where we also look at
the forum data. And that would require us then building the next plugin for that and connecting it and it's something that we very much want to do. But as I was saying, the first step is just a simple Discord bot that allows us to start getting a few insights and with the poll
survey as well to get some of that perception data and we can provide that to the community. Hopefully something good comes out of it and that motivates us to the community to say this is very valuable. Here is some extra funds to then go and do the next bit of research and include another data source and expand from there.
So basically, when you speak about the data, who will actually have access to this data? Will the data be shared only within your group or also the admins of Cosmos who will have access to data also for regulation and GPDR reasons?
So we are keeping all the personal data locked. It would only be or data scientists who have access to that and a couple of the detecting people who need to have access to it to be able to maintain the database. But we're trying to keep it as
restricted as possible because what we're trying to look into is really the aggregate patterns and not the individual behavior. We're not creating sort of surveillance or tracking software. We're more looking at overall macro patterns in the data. Like you wouldn't want to know, for example, to disclose how a specific individual
necessarily has voted over a period of time or you could argue whether that's good or bad but at least it's very certain that these contentious while you can very safely say 50% of voters have gone in this direction. That being said if we're already starting to discuss a partnership with
with Mastery University. This is only early stage, so just to explain the sort of way we're thinking about this, in which we could anonymize the data and then pass it to this university where the data science students there could run further analysis on the data without being able to
to reveal the identity of any individual, but we could that way complement even our team's capacity and perhaps publish some research papers that allow us to understand better things about the nature of communities and ecosystems and so on. And we could
think about different similar ways to work with other members of the Cosmos community who are interested in running analysis or exploring different metrics that we could play around with the data and so on, as long as we're not putting at risk the, let's say the individuals of having their identity is closed.
being said, we're not collecting any data like we're not asking people what their wallet address is, we're not asking them about their age or demographic or nationality or their name or anything like that, is just purely the data that's coming from Discord plus the perception data which is not linked to their individual
So we know kind of like the messages that they shared in this court that data is being collected and then on the other side separate and the two are not merged separate we have the the poll surveys which has things like how do you identify with this community?
community or how connected you are or can ask a few things around well-being and so on. So it allows us to prioritize different initiatives but we're not connecting the two so not to jeopardize that. It's a complex topic. It's something that we're constantly thinking about because there is not one right answer and we hope
this can evolve and over time we can find ways to perhaps like encrypt the data and make it fully open without having to go through us. But this will require us some time and thinking about taking the solutions and all of that as I'm saying we're just starting small and then hopefully it can build to bigger things.
So, related to this, from end of sending, there is also not only about cosmos, but it's also about funding a public good in this meaning because
basically the data that you will collect to cosmos will also help in this wider literature. So in this sense and of course correct me correct me if I am wrong.
below this project participated in this research or this is something that is cosmos exclusively or you may be already have partnership also and funding from other projects.
So because research on public goods are hard to fund, but they benefit everyone, an approach has been twofold. On one side, we're splitting the cost across multiple entities and multiple protocols. We already received some grant funding from
Aragon, Ave, Metacartel and a couple others. And now we are applying for Cosmos funding. That helps us to fund the deep research, like compared to a basic analytics tool that just shows you a number of messages or something like that. We're using
the fun to essentially fund the deeper thinking. And then on the other side, the insights generated are twofolds. One are going to be very specific analysis about Cosmos Hub or Cosmos and there's are only really useful for Cosmos.
may be curious about it, you know, these things are going to be shared with the community. So if anyone that's from the outside ecosystem wants to kind of like part of the community see the see the outputs, it's for the community to decide whether those are open or not. But they won't really be relevant for anyone else.
other hand, we might start to realize some deeper mechanics or deeper principles at play that are not only specific to cosmos and part of the way for us to learn that and to then be able to use them both to provide insights or let's say to advise cosmos hub and to advise other communities on the best
path forward is to be able to compare and contrast the data of different ecosystems and different communities. So we can see these communities doing really well in this aspect that community is not doing very well on that aspect, what it is that they are doing differently, and then maybe we can start to understand some some best practices
with proper research, with a scientific approach rather than just like, oh, that sounds nice. And this is part of the bigger project that we hope to accomplish over time. But again, that will probably take multiple more months as we gather data from multiple communities.
and are able to compare them and contrast them and so on. So we have to summarize, we have the specific insights that are only for Cosmos and the deployment of the tool that's only for Cosmos and then we have the more primary research side that is indeed a public good and can benefit any sort of online digital community, web-free community.
Okay, thanks for expanding. I think that Cosmos is also part of funding already in the past public groups. I think there is part of the mission of Web 3.
on blockchain in some extent. And, uh, be there those on this, uh, on the fact that basically the discount board will be the main, uh, and the starting point, uh, the current state of the Cosmos discord is that basically is a mostly private. So I think that, uh,
This is something that also should be discussed with people currently managing the discord especially in case the provost will pass because as of now from a rough estimation that the bot will have access basically on 5% of all channeling the server and
and in this sense it will require a little bit of coordination and also on this basically, once you basically deliver this cardboard for Cosmos, we will have this tool forever
Or we'll have a limited time. Basically, if our funding will basically give us this tool for an unlimited period of time, or we'll be limited and we'll require eventually additional funding to still benefit from it.
Yeah, so thank you. So two things. One, we already start speaking with them. We ask them as part of our outreach process. We ask them if they had any concerns. They indeed raised the same point that you did that there is many private channels, given that the nature of what
Each channel is about and exactly how the foundation team is operating and things like that. It only makes sense to really have the super in-depth conversation about each specific channel, yes or no, it makes sense to have it included. If the proposal was to pass,
because if it doesn't pass, we might as well save ourselves the time. And because it's a bot, it's fairly easy and actually will be them, like it needs to be the discord admin who approves the bot and gives it permissions, it would be fairly straightforward for them
to select each channel whether the bot will have permission to read it or not. And if the bot doesn't have permission to read it, we'll have no mechanism whatsoever to access that data. So in that sense, it's pretty safe. Then it's a matter of what they are comfortable with. And for that, I cannot speak on
on their behalf, but the more channels were able to include the more of a holistic picture will have. That being said, if it's only the public channels, the tool already works. And for example, in Aragon, because we're doing a similar approach with them, where there were certain channels where they had shared
very private information. They didn't want this close or any third party to have any access to it, so we didn't include those. And despite of that, we're still able to generate multiple insights that they really appreciated and used to refine their community strategy. Then onto the second question,
So the data collection tool is open source. The research is open source and then at our own expense, we are creating a UI to visualize these insights. The way we're going to make these works of
is not something we have figured out yet. So the data collection tool and the research is there forever is for anyone else to use. As far as the UI, we can definitely say that at least let's say for the next six months or so it's fully available to
cosmos. After that, we have yet to figure out how we maintain it and will probably be asking for a subsequent budget past that time to keep it alive and keep refining it and iterating it and adding things to it. But we have yet to figure that out.
Okay, thank you. This is Clarify also the all the technical aspect that they were depending on Clarification and also the fact that this proposal will also imply a continuation and a cooperation between your entity, your DAO and the cosmos.
So I think it's very important to put the community to understand that this will imply not only goes most but also Web 3 in general in case we want to start with June with this long term journey, I think in this case with with the air and out and
Do you have anything to add that maybe we haven't touched yet that you want to talk about this proposal? Yeah, perhaps to emphasize a little bit around the funding that the output value, because sometimes there's been a little bit of confusion
since we're also doing research and that kind of means is broad and as with any research project you don't exactly know what the output of the research is. But so to clarify what the deliverables are in the very short term, I'm talking within maybe like six weeks or something like that, I'll have
to check the exact details of my team. But in a very short term, what we can deliver is the insights. And we can create the full report of everything that's been analyzed as after having refined the framework, after having collected the data, the implementation, all of that. What we can do is share to the community here
the picture here is the mirror of how things are going, here is what we learn and here is the set of recommendations. Then that tool remains active, like can stay working. For now, it requires one or four data scientists, like usually Caterina is like manually extracting the data, but we're working on
automating this so that then the UI is updating automatically and then over a period of time you'll keep seeing how things are evolving. And that would be, let's say, slightly more the medium term after you get the first insights. And then over time, indeed,
we hope to build a deeper relationship because there is a lot more that can be done in this area, but that would be fairly independent of already the community receiving the insights and of course having all the mechanisms built that are required to be able to produce the insights.
Okay, so the community will also have a short-term benefit and I think also that you said in the draft that it will require also for the first two or weeks as a timeline. I think that any community member that
When I read the draft, there is also the explanation of some short term timeline. If any committee member would not jump on and discuss and bring some questions, I think this is the right time, or make a question.
on in the comments of the Twitter space talk. I think that the conversation kind of covered all the aspects of the proposal and especially the mission and I met with you to know that Daniel also
have been looking at the bust of Cosmos and the past drama and all these kind of dynamics that after all it's it is why this could be something good for Cosmos in case we need to to find a better approach to
our community and to especially find a mutual understanding, I think it is something very important. And if no one wants to add something, I think we can bring this up and thank you everyone.
to participate. Daniela maybe you want to add something to close the conversation? Well primarily thinking everyone for all the time they have dedicated to engaging with us in this topic or giving feedback on the proposal
which we've been incorporating and discussing as we see fit and hopefully we get to work together very soon to keep advancing community and build the resilience and health of cosmos and we would be honored to support on making that happen.
Thank you again for participating the share of your project in your knowledge about community.
Finally, if anyone has any concerns or doubts, please feel free to reach out to us. We're very open to hearing feedback and criticism that always helps us improve our
and how we communicate and the sort of things we're putting forward. So feel free to DM me in Twitter, my DMs are open. So just reach out. Thank you all.
Okay, I think if we don't have any questions or if anybody would like to share any further discussion points, I think we can end the call.
but if not then thank you all for your time and thank you all for joining. Yes, I think we can close the call if there is any more questions and thank you all for participating and especially to take part in this community call which is a nice
way to engage because talking and having a conversation sometimes is a better way to approach the cosmos and the community and the global and the global and the global and the global and the global and the global and the aspect. Thank you, Daniel again for the explanation at your time and we can see you, we can see everyone in the next call.
Thank you all. Hopefully speak to you all in the next call. Bye.