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Core Builder Session Ft. Nova Protocol
Recorded: March 26, 2025 Duration: 0:43:03Space Recording
Full Transcription
session today we got the guys over at what should i call it um nova protocol or uh right is that
the right yeah it's noa protocol
Exactly.
The guys at NOMER Protocol didn't want to mess up the pronunciation.
But we got a, this is an important live stream.
So Nova Protocol is introducing a structured, quantum inspired, risk and yield optimized framework to create a Bitcoin native synthetic dollar with stable collateralization, yield generation, and automated liquidity management.
So I know that's a lot.
That's a mouthful.
So I'm sure these guys are going to get in here and break it all down because I don't even understand what all that means.
But first, let's just do some intro. So I'm a Dylan from Core.
You guys want to give a quick intro before we break it all down.
Yep. So maybe I'll start it off. So I'm Rishab.
Like, uh, so I'll just give like a brief background about myself.
I was working in the N26 bank before. So I have like a proper, you know, like background in finance, portfolio management, credit risk and those kind of things.
So I'm looking on the financial sides of NOVA, integrating
and understanding the risks, segregating them,
and you know, like looking after the yields and where do they come from?
And this is like my team, Devasish and Gokul.
Maybe you can have a quick intro.
So I'm the Voszberra.
I'm currently based in San Francisco and Ido UC Berkeley.
We both are from the 10 middle bedroom.
So we both of us are behind 13 the Nova Protocol and
building it before 7.
So after research, all the financial stuff, we just integrate all things into the thought and we just deployed.
Hi, I'm Goklishwar and Narayanan. So I look into the technical part of the Landova Protocol.
So I'm currently pursuing my master's degree in computer science at New York University.
All right, nice.
All right.
Well, it's great to meet you guys.
I do understand you have a PowerPoint to share to the people today.
So just for everyone watching, we're going to be, they're going to be breaking down their PowerPoint, explaining everything.
I'll be asking questions.
You guys can leave questions in the chat that they'll answer.
Then after, we'll talk a little more about it, talk about core, talk about Bitcoin, Defi.
So here we go.
yep so maybe i'll just you know like quickly just like talking about the first slide itself like
about like how the structure of the slide is going to be so i'm going to be like taking nova protocol
from like where does the need of
of this kind of protocol on the BTC Defy comes into place.
Like what is the problem that Bitcoin as an asset is currently facing?
Then like how do we solve that problem and how do we think the future of money would look like on Bitcoin?
And I mean like then we'll also talk about like the mechanics.
insides of NOVA and maybe then we can quickly just switch it up
and show you like a quick demo because we are not
in test net stage yet but we are still developing the NOVA protocol
so we'll just maybe like show you the demo that we have.
So I mean like just starting off the first slide.
So this is like you know like NOVA protocol is something more
of like a protocol that generates yield on BTC5
to aggregate sealed so maybe like talking more about the problem.
Can we go on the next slide?
So I mean like so currently like we know that bitcoin can be sourced for attractive
yields but currently like the bitcoin's capital is like not being utilized correctly.
The bitcoin as in you cannot use bitcoin as you know like a financial asset for you know like
trading for like a kind of like you know like paying for a service why because it's so volatile
imagine you are paying somewhere and the bitcoin prices go up and down.
So that is the problem currently.
And apart from that, most of the Bitcoin
is actually held in wallets.
And it is not being taken off.
So the average holding period of Bitcoin
is around like 3.8 to 4 years.
And that Bitcoin is actually not going somewhere.
So Bitcoin is lying idle and it's not generating any yield and it's not making money.
So that also makes it actually expensive to hold.
And then comes the problem of the liquidity crisis of Bitcoin because if the Bitcoin is not moving in the Bitcoin ecosystem,
the lending rates become higher for Bitcoin and also if we compare the velocity ratio with Ethereum,
that means basically like how much Bitcoin is moving within the ecosystem.
We find out that Bitcoin is moving four times less compared to Ethereum.
And also like if we look at the current ways that BTC5 generates yields, that is
landings, you know, like the bridges and all these are the protocols that are out there,
they are not generating the yield as efficiently as they should.
Maybe we can go to the next slide for like some data around this fact.
So here, you know, like we are talking like I'm going to talk about like what is the opportunity cost like what are the people in the Bitcoin ecosystem losing every year if they are not you know like generating the yield as much as they should and the opportunity cost for it. So if we see here as I mentioned.
The average locked Bitcoin, like holding period of Bitcoin is 3.8 years.
And all of this Bitcoin is not generating yield at the moment.
There are 14.2 million long-term holders of BTC holding around like 850 billion,
which is just sitting idle in wallets again.
And we are estimating like NOVA protocol through the funding rates,
through the liquid reserves and the vaults that we have.
We can generate around 10 to 15% annually.
on this idle Bitcoin.
So that brings like the just the opportunity cost on this idle Bitcoin,
127.5 billion, which is very massive.
And now if we go to the right side,
that is like the inefficient protocol usage.
So we have split down where the Bitcoin is currently being used in Defy.
So we can see like there are around like 225,000 Bitcoins.
around like roughly around 13.5 billion,
generating like 2.8% annually.
And that is in the rap Bitcoin.
And we can on that, you know, like collateral,
we can generate like more than 2.8.
So that's like if we compare the opportunity cost,
that comes around 1.65 billion.
Similarly, if we look at like the cross chain bridges,
there is 22.5 billion locked over there.
And again, their API is around 1.2% to 1.5%
there again, the opportunity cost is around like 2.1 billion.
And then if we come at the collaterals, that is like around like 120,000 Bitcoin.
And the opportunity cost comes at around like 1.4 billion.
So if we all add this up, just like, you know, like about of like idle Bitcoin,
assuming that some of the Bitcoin people will never, you know, like move their Bitcoin and they will never trust somebody else with it.
even if we like, you know, like think from like the keep the estimates at the lower level,
still there is like an opportunity cost of somewhere around like 10 to 11 billion dollars a year.
So this is like the amount of money that people are losing every year.
Can we maybe go to the next slide for some more data?
And Dylan, by the way, like if you have any questions till now.
Yeah, I mean, that's just crazy.
That's like we talk about all the time at core, just Bitcoin sitting and doing nothing, not
being unlocked.
It's the hardest monetary asset we've ever had and people don't use it.
It's just a pet rock.
So yeah, you're speaking to the right person.
You're talking about unlocking Bitcoin, Defi.
And I really like those stats you shared about, yeah, how much is idle.
And then also for what is actually used to generate yield, what it's being used in and how
it's getting low yields.
And I like that a lot.
No, I'm interested to see the solution you guys provide.
Yeah, so I mean like now if you know like look at also this data is like mind-boggling for me because like if I look at the top three assets and I look at like Ethereum right now like the market is in a bear market so the like market caps are on the lower side but if we can just see like 380 billion
out of that, 109 billion is active in defy.
Most of the stable coins are on Solana or Ethereum.
And now if we look at like, you know, like Bitcoin,
1.2 trillion worth of market cap and only like
0.8% is active in D5.
So you can see like how much big an opportunity core BTC5 can be in the next five years.
As the Bitcoin is getting in locked, the infrastructure, you know, like gets mature and all these kind of things.
So there is definitely like from here a 100x opportunity in the next couple of years in the BTC5 space.
So this is like about that and we can easily see like there is like a 38.5 billion annual gap
just comparing you know like the percentages between Ethereum and Bitcoin and how much the
defy should grow if we think logically. So maybe can we go to the next slide?
And this is just again like a deep comparison that we created,
like comparing the Bitcoin versus Ethereum ecosystem from market cap,
like how much percentage is, how much percentage is actually used in defi staking and all these kind of things.
Then how much like asset back stable coins are issued.
So if we see like on Bitcoin, only like 0.9 billion worth of stable coins are issued at the moment.
And then on Ethereum there is like 25 billion plus.
And if we look at the average defy yield on Bitcoin, that is pretty low compared to Ethereum.
And that also means like the cost of capital is higher compared to the baseline.
And yeah, we also talked about the financial velocity just because of the Bitcoin being held in the wallets.
The velocity ratio is pretty low compared to Ethereum because it is being transferred across the ecosystem and lending being lent and being borrowed.
Can we go next slide?
I mean, so like now comes the interesting part like what we are doing and how we are optimizing the Bitcoin yields and how do we maintain like the stability using our propriety risk management systems and how we plan to, you know, like make BitcoinFi adopted across the world.
So we have like a it is like kind of inspired from the atomic shells because you know like we thought like where is the most stability. So like atoms are the most stable. So we have like three shells K L and M and each one is generating yields and taking certain risks. So we have like a delta neutral shell which is like making revenue from the Bitcoin perpetuals.
the funding rates which have usually been positive in the past,
even in the bear markets, you can easily generate like 4 to 6% from the Bitcoin perpetuals.
By what it means is basically you go long on Bitcoin on one end and you go short, go short on one end.
And basically because the markets are always bullish, the longs pay the shots.
So as long as the funding rates are positive, you are making money on the short positions.
But the trick part is you can, you know, like long that Bitcoin with chains like Core.
And comes Core, you are making more money by staking Bitcoin.
So that is like the core, you know, like 65 to 70% of a portfolio is going to be in the K-Shill,
and that is like the core money-making mechanism for NOAA.
But we also wanted to make this stable coin pretty safe.
And we wanted it to have other sources of yields,
like the liquid reserves, where we plan to integrate
USD, USDC, and like some vaults on that,
which are going to again generate some liquid yield,
which is going to be obviously low, but it's
going to like, add to the stability of the protocol.
And then we also wanted to diversify.
So we have like an M shell,
which is like taking like the risk and, you know,
like aggregating the yields of other BTC5 ecosystem.
And then what we do is we separate that into a stable position,
that is the stable coin.
And we also separate it into SNUS.
That is like the stake position of the revenue
that the protocol is generating.
What it does is basically it creates like two categories of people
who want to, you know, like have like a
kind of like a safe stable position and they want to you know like just hold their value
which is not which is actually like non inflationary why because it is not we are not printing anymore
so as much as the revenue is being generated we peg it to the dollar and then it is being minted
and if you want like 15 to 20 percent returns annually or that is like something variable you can
stake your u s nusd and get like s nusd
We also have like one another token that is like the NOVA governance and utility token,
but we have not mentioned it over here.
But this is like the two kind of categories that people that we cater to.
One is the conservative people who can just hold their money, Bitcoin backed into the NUSD,
and then if they are also seeking some kind of returns on it, they can stake their NUSD and get like SNUSD,
which is the yield betting asset we have.
Can you go to the next slide please?
I mean like any questions still here, Dylan?
Yeah, so for the other protocol source of yield, what would that constitute?
What different DAPs would you be entering into to earn some yield on?
I mean so like you know like we also like plan to like you know like the bigger picture for us is to integrate somehow yield sources from the EVM chains as well and we also want to like make money from like the walls that Morpho currently has because that they have like certain stable walls and these walls are like
very stable and they are generating like around 2 to 3% 4% annually.
So if we can, you know, like somehow get some exposure apart from Bitcoin ecosystem
and then package it one into the wrapper NUSD which is like mainly backed by Bitcoin
but also has like some other sources of fields then it becomes very powerful.
Because even in the bear markets, come the bear markets, we have like a rebalancing mechanism that basically rebalances the shells.
So how much money, how much liquidity is into which shell is actually being rebalanced.
So this is the mechanism where we rebalance into other strategies which are constantly making money.
So we can ensure that people are, you know, like generating minimum 5 to 6% a year.
And I mean like...
Um, so basically you long one side, you short the other side and then no matter Bitcoin price goes up or down, you profit.
Yes, exactly. So basically what that means is like we long Bitcoin. So if the Bitcoin prices go up, the Bitcoin that is being held in form of like the liquid staking token, the re-staking tokens or the Bitcoin collateral that is, you know, like generating yield with core, which is lying with core that goes up in value. And if the Bitcoin prices decrease, the shots that we have opened.
on the exchanges that we have partnered with, they go up in value.
So basically the money that people have given us,
it is not exposed to the volatility of Bitcoin,
but it is still generating some yield.
Right, so you're hedging yourself.
Okay, all right, great.
Please continue.
Yep. So I mean like talking about like you know like why this infrastructure is missing on Bitcoin and why this is the key infrastructure layer and why it is needed. So the challenges of Bitcoin holders currently if we look, they have like zero yield.
price volatility as we mentioned there is limited capital efficiency we saw like the all the
bridges and the different protocols currently they have like 150 percent over
over collateralization and they are the capital efficiency around for them is around 65
percent on average for all the bridges and everything because they don't have another option
to you know like hedge the volatility risk of bitcoin
So and also like this makes like defy options very inaccessible because the u.
U.S. I see you know like I don't see like people you know like going into those different sites and then logging in staking their Bitcoin.
That is like a lot of trust barrier.
So if there is a simple way that people can just have that exposure in a single wrapper that makes it a lot easier for people to, you know, just like access defy.
So also like the DFI, BTC-Fi limitations, capital inefficiency, complex user experience, high entry barriers, unlimited ill options for the protocols and like other players in BTC-5.
So comes in NOVA, we have like a three shell yield architecture I mentioned.
We have like the delta neutral strategies running always that, you know, like hedge the price volatility of Bitcoin.
We have like a Bitcoin native risk engine that is making, you know, like Bitcoin's ecosystem overall,
the protocols that want to get like exposure of the Bitcoin yield. They can do it using us.
And then we also have like a proper risk management system with the liquidation mechanics and all these in place.
that make sure that you know like we are always backed more than one to one and also like the
revenue that the protocol generates on a period of time gets into insurance fund gets into the
reserve shell and then it makes more money so it only makes it stronger and against the
inflationary power of the world i mean can we go to the next slide
So I mean like again like talking about like these three shells what is the bigger idea like we have like a hybrid three shell architecture that gives Nova the edge in providing the best exposures Bitcoin back returns all in one place.
So we have like the K shell which is the head shell which is having like exposure to the perpetuals which are the short positions and on the long side we have the liquid staking and the restaking tokens.
In the reserve shell, we have all the CFI, the stable walls, and all those are the things that we want to get the exposure, the stable exposure.
So imagine if like the, you know, like the bear market comes and the funding rates go negative.
We want to, you know, like quickly close the positions on the exchanges and we want to shift into the LNM shell for the reserve and the diversification.
And again, like the diversification is there to get like from L1s, L2s and other BTC-5 ecosystem.
do you cover again the difference between there's so there's like two different strategies you could enter
there's like the conservative one for institutions and then the yield farming uh strategy as well can you
just explain the differences between those two yeah so i mean like so there are like two kind of
strategies that we have one is the conservative one like so there's the thing is even for like a strategy
can we go back like two slides de vashish
Just to explain, you know, like, so the NUSD is not exposed to any kind of volatility.
Why? Because this is just like the yields which is separated.
This is like backed by constant cash flows and it is like dollar backed.
So there is no risk involved in NUSD because it is always like more than one is to one backed by a certain kind of asset.
that is the yield that is the protocol generating and then we segregate the risk and because of that risk comes the reward so we are giving like higher rewards to the people who are now then staking their nusd into s nusd so this represents the stake portion of that extra reward that you get for the risk you take so we are basically effectively you know like segregating the risk and the yield
Right. Okay. That makes sense.
Can you move?
Back to that slide. We were just up before. Yeah. No, the next one, please.
So for the for the conservative returns, which would that just be like the L reserve cell, just the C-5 and the stable vaults?
Yeah, so this is like something you know like we are currently deciding like the mechanics of it
But like basically this is like you can stake into different vaults your SNUSD is going to be staked into different rewards with different like
You know like a API wise so if you just want like a stable three to four percent this is going to be the reserve shell the cfi and the stable vault you can just easily go and
stake it and you know that you know like the chances of this is like very low because this is all like backed by liquid stables like us d u sdc vaults which are then you know like managed by people like morpho gauntlet and like the best in class risk managers we have got and if he yeah
so this is like all going to be it and on top we have like the nova which like is the governance
and utility token that really unlocks the reward for people so if they stake like similar to
core and bitcoin if you stake like sn usd with nova you increase the reward tiers can we go on the
next slide maybe so maybe we can show that yep so this is like the three tokens that initial
you know like the liquid investment tokens that we have at the moment we are going to launch them like
so this is the nusd which is like
not yield bearing, it is just like the stable synthetic dollar position that we have on the yield that the protocol is generating.
The stable, you know, like the yield generating version of NUSD that gives you like the return on the,
that is basically the claim on what the protocol is making.
And then the governance token, that is NOVA.
Can we go on the next slide?
I mean like so before that maybe can you just like go back and maybe like we can have a demo like it might be interesting to see like how it works.
I think basically saw the demo.
Oh here we go.
Here we have.
We are certainly on Lothelow and we are on development stage and here is the demo.
I will just connect with my Metamast wallet.
And initially, to show you, I have around 72 US DC.
And for an USDA, at the end of UNC is like 135 PNUSD.
Let's say, I will just go with 12 USDC and I want to just main to NUSD.
So I mean like currently you know like Dylan we are supporting like USDC and like wrap Bitcoin on core but like eventually the idea for us is to you know like include like as many Bitcoin related collaterals to provide them instant liquidity against it.
So this is like because we can, because we can, you know, like segregate the risks that the volatility of Bitcoin has.
And we can just basically then on board more and more like collaterals like the L2 tokens and the, you know, like all these are the restaking tokens as well.
So you basically I and USD is mentored and you can see initially.
It was around 72 and now it's like 60 USD and the NUSD has been entrenched.
Further, if you like want to stay it, then probably here the amount you have for statin and here is the amount you have already
stayed which is like proper delta noodle held and this is not and this is for a reset.
It's one on paid to it US dollar.
So if you want to take more risk for the more reward you then probably state it for NUSD.
I suppose I'm let me just test 1000 NUSD so I will just then from the transition.
And I mean like so Dylan I'm just also going to like on the site where like you know like mentioned why we have the lock-in period because you know like Bitcoin's price is volatile
and we want to control the LTVs so we can provide people the best in class returns.
So this is why we are deciding on the lock-in period, but it's probably going to be around like six to seven days.
And that ensures us that we have the enough capital so we can have like the capital planning.
And then we can basically make sure that the for the people like the protocol is generating the maximum amount of field.
Okay.
Yeah. So what is the LTV?
Say I put $100 in Bitcoin in.
How much?
I mean so yeah.
So like for imagining like that, we have like around like one.
30 to 140% of like the collateralization initially because we want to be very safe while beta testing it and eventually you know like as the protocol scales as we get the LPs and you know like the liquidity is like in access we can probably like you know like bring it down and as close as to like 120%.
So this is like something and innovation because no other protocol the bridges. If you see the like other you know like rap Bitcoin all these kind of things they don't currently do that.
Right. And what, do you know the liquidation? Is there like a liquidation ratio for...
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, no, no.
But so like, you know, like, we are actually, like, working that out because we are, we are talking to, like, people and like the liquidation ratios are going to be, like, based upon the macro thresholds.
We are like actually talking to like bull mix, which is going to help us, you know, like with the BWIF.
And from that, we are going to like take out some data and then we are going to calculate them.
So it is actually right now in the process of being like, we are back testing all the things.
So that, you know, like, I cannot give you a specific number at the moment.
Right, right, no, yeah. Got to figure that out for sure before you start telling the public.
And this is the part, yeah. So like I received, if you want to unstrate your S and USDA, then you need to wear for seven days before you then actually use an USB and further you then burn it for USC, USD or whatever struggles on you really want.
Maybe you guys can also show the rewards calculator like for ease of people if you want how they want to calculate like how much they make.
So like here they then see the rewards and like if I'm putting 1000 in USD then this is the estimated earning over the period of 221 days
with the API of 18.5% but it will be truly depend on the bullies berries on the sideways market.
So this is like the variable interest rate where it comes into play like depending upon the market, the funding rates of the coin and futures which are on the top three exchanges.
So like we calculate this on the spot for the people. So they are, you know, like this is completely transparent.
We also plan to like integrate like ZK proofs for verifying the positions so that people know that where the money is.
So this is like something upgrade over Athena because which doesn't give like transparency to people about where the money is exactly.
Right, I was going to ask, so like the money stays in these vaults and you're saying people will be able to see where they are at all times.
Exactly. Exactly. So this is like completely making like, you know, like it accountable.
Like we know that people know where the money is actually being put.
So it's going to be verified using ZK proofs and you can see like, yeah.
So how much of the portfolio is in which show how the strategies are running.
So it is all going to be transparent.
Okay, right. And do you, the longer you stake, do you get increased multiples of yield?
Exactly. Because that's where like NOVA also comes into place. So it's just like similar to core.
Okay.
Yep. Maybe can we go to the next slide?
Yep. So you know like this is like the roadmap for us. Right now we are in the foundation and infrastructure phase.
where we are, you know, like, kind of like developing the mechanics.
We are looking at the, you know, like integrations with the exchanges,
how the yield generation is going to look like the liquidation ratios, as you mentioned.
And also, you know, like other integrations that we need.
And then we are probably going to be like in the next two, three months.
We are going to be on the test net phase where we can, you know, like you guys can basically like interact with NOVA
on like early access user basis.
And from there on, we can partner with other DFI protocols.
We can integrate them off for liquidity and launch the dashboard where people can see where their money is going to be.
And as then from there, we take it on the scaling and optimization phase.
So this is like the roadmap for us in the next six, two quarters, I would say.
Yeah, this is great. This is exciting.
So that's about us like I mean, Dylan, like any questions like what are your thoughts and you know like anything like feedbacks for us?
I'm excited to try it out.
I guess when do you guys think this is going to happen?
Maybe Q3, Q2, Q4, this year probably for sure.
I mean like this year for sure.
I mean like we are thinking to do like be fast, you know, like as fast as possible.
But like I'm assuming like end of Q2 or like Q3 start.
Okay, yeah. Oh yeah. So Core has this liquid stake Bitcoin token coming out soon, LSTVTC.
Yeah, exactly.
I'm hoping you guys will be accepting that because I know I'll be having my Bitcoin there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We are actually talking. We're going to talk to the team and, you know, like, we're going to integrate it on the backend.
So definitely like everything that is on the core ecosystem currently, like will be eventually be accepted.
Be it MAMA, LSTs, Bitcoin LSTs or like other things.
Okay, nice. So where does Core's Bitcoin staking fall in the strategy? Do you guys use that for yield generation or is that also used in the conservative strategy?
So yeah. Yes, so the cores, you know, like the yield generation is basically used against the hedge because if you are shorting Bitcoin, we need to hold some Bitcoin in the long.
So we can just like store that Bitcoin, the long Bitcoin with Core and generate three to four percent annually on that.
So this is basically where it's forced.
So the head shell is constituting of core scores like, you know, like the yield generation that
core is using using P of proof of stakes.
This is like where it comes into play.
And then eventually when the like the funding rates go negative, we, you know, like double down and we like take it out of the head shell and we put it somewhere in a stable board.
Okay. Yeah.
Makes sense.
So it makes sense.
Yeah.
For the yield generation, will you be like lending?
Any crypto out on like a platform like co-lend, like a borrow lend or maybe providing liquidity for liquidity pools?
What are some of the different yield generation aspects?
So yeah, I mean like, so what we are going to do is like we are going to be doing that on co-lend.
One thing is for sure.
And then we are also looking at the different vaults that, you know, like Mofo has.
So we are going to be lending out in like some walls by MEP capital, which are doing like proper like, you know, like options strategy on Bitcoin.
Like imagine your Bitcoin is like for a period that is not volatile.
So we can do like covered calls and like other things.
We can play around with the options and we can have like option structured vaults.
So that also like is a very good source of harvesting the Bitcoin native yield.
So we plan to integrate all those things and you know like how this is going to work out is like we want to offer people as much options and transparency.
So like they can basically choose the vaults they want to get into.
They can choose like if they want like combination of the walls and if they want like everything diversified all in one.
So they can just get like NUSD and you know like stake it for SUNSD.
So like it's going to be like you have the, you know, like option to choose like what kind of risk exposure do you want?
Do you want the stable risk exposure?
Do you want the, you know, like structured option exposure and you get like rewards accordingly?
Right. Let's talk about Bitcoin Defi for a bit. So I know a decent amount of your presentation was about, you know, unlocking Bitcoin about how the velocity of Bitcoin is, you know, it's very low compared to what it should be. And I don't know. How do you see this playing out? I'm on here talking to all your developers making all these great Bitcoin Defi apps. I see where it's going. But do you think it's going to surpass Ethereum Defi one day? I don't know. What do you see for the future of Bitcoin Defi?
i mean that's a pretty interesting question like i definitely see like a lot of growth in this space
but the thing about surpassing ethereum yes i think it will eventually because it has to like you
know like bitcoin is the biggest crypto asset and it's obvious that people are fight and you know like
i also see it like two ways i see it like one thing what i see is like
Is Ethereum truly decentralized?
If we look at the node level, I don't think so.
Like, you know, like the nodes are very centralized on the very ground level.
So if people are fighting for like true decentralization and they want like a currency,
that is actually acting as a hedge currency against the world, it is Bitcoin.
And now you also want to be building like, you know, like sources of yields on that hedge currency.
That is like the BTC file.
So I mean like I see like this eventually gaining more traction than Ethereum for sure.
And I mean like the things like there, we have like a pretty lot good developers building on BTC file.
payments are coming in cross-border payments on Bitcoin, Lightning Network is expanding.
We see like stable coins, now we have core, we have like the all those C-Fi and D-Fi things also playing out.
I mean in the next five years there's definitely like more exploded growth on Bitcoin,
but we can definitely not ignore the you know like the volume that Ethereum has because it has gained the initial inertia.
so it's i don't think so it's not going to go away but i mean like definitely like bitcoin because
of it market cap it will always be the biggest asset in the world no matter what you do like
people will always trust bitcoin and they will then eventually trust btcfi more because it is like
truly decentralized so this is like my way and i mean like how do you see it
Yeah, I just, you know, Bitcoin is clearly winning the money game versus Ethereum.
It's clearly the hardest asset.
And when you think about using defy, like what do you want to use, Ethereum or Bitcoin?
It's like I think most people want to use Bitcoin, but then, you know, they're just scared about wrapping and bridging it over and things like that.
So as people start to trust Bitcoin Defy more, as all these apps get to be built out and people see are at, these Bitcoin tokens are not going anywhere.
I think more people are just going to come in and be like, yeah, I'd rather get Bitcoin yield.
I mean like four non-custodial staking is like a really big unlock in the space.
Like yeah, my biggest issue like, you know, like why I would not put my money on Ethereum and any other chain is because of the trust.
Like people know that if they hold Bitcoin on their wallet, they know it's safe.
You know, like it's not going to go anywhere.
And the thing is like most of the majority of the Bitcoin holders are the most conservative people.
on the entire crypto system.
So then like something like you know like Coors non-custodial staking comes into play, kicks in and we can also like build on top of it and we can provide the sealed non-custodialese.
So this is like a big unlock and I mean like this is a huge way where the BTC5 can you know like build more transparency, trust using ZK proofs, non-custodial staking and all these kind of things.
Yeah, I mean, the way I look at it is like, you know, say someone has $2,000, like they're going to buy Bitcoin with $1,000, just hold it in their Bitcoin wallet. And then they're going to buy $1,000 of Ethereum and using DeFi. But how about instead of, you buy $1,000 to buy the $1,000 to hold your wallet. Then the other $1,000, buy Bitcoin and bring that's why are we using Ethereum instead? And you can just use Bitcoin and defy. You can still have your own Bitcoin in your wallet, you know, staking with core. But if you're going to be using some kind of defy, like why not just use Bitcoin. So that's that's kind of where I see it going. And I think.
It just has to get built out.
I mean, like, it's definitely like the bridges like Fiamah and you know, like also Oxbridge right now in the cohort is like just, they are building this out.
I mean like pretty soon I feel like there's going to be like interoperability between the BTC Phi and Ethereum Phi.
It is going to come like right now it's like BTC Phi is this ecosystem.
Ethereum is like completely separate.
There is no link between them, but it's coming like pretty soon it's going to be,
I feel like it's going to be interoperable and people will choose Bitcoin then because it's more trusted,
it's more safe and I would want to store my money on the biggest asset.
Yeah, exactly.
So for Bitcoin Defi in general, how do you see it playing out with all the different Bitcoin
Defi chains with Core, you know, Stacks, Bablon, all these different chains?
What are your thoughts on it right now?
I mean, like, the numbers, like, I'm a mathematical guy.
I was working in the bank before, and I think, like, the numbers did it all.
Like, if you look at, like, 25, more than, I think, 25% of the BTC5 is just on core.
And if you, I think, like, it's the biggest L1.
on you know like Bitcoin so I feel like they're doing pretty strong and the team is pretty amazing and you know like they're helping the teams very much like even as like if I talk about Ryan from core winches that guy is like a gym he's really helping us out yeah he's the best actually and I mean Davis she any thoughts on like you know like how do you feel on building on core and like if you compare it to Babylon and like at the chairs
Yeah, it's like today, we've got lots of support.
I've been touch with Ryan.
We have been touching Ryan since the starting of the Thorad.
Me, Dothul met him in New York, like in January.
And then I met him in 8th, Denver.
And we have been discussing on different stuff that we built on Thor.
And I'm pretty much optimistic about whatever the other is building.
And I am also pretty much optimistic about
Earth building on the future.
I mean like also like how I see it in one way is like you know like
Core is trying to build an ecosystem on Bitcoin like other chains that I saw like they were tackling like one use case.
Just like if you look at Babylon, re-staking, nobody thought of creating like this whole city on Bitcoin and you know like then taking it to the next level.
So how I see it is like it makes a lot more sense that you have like these small infrastructure plays
and you have like all these pieces in place that are built on Bitcoin that will power the next level of
applications, whether it is gaming, defi, NFTs, whatever you want. So you know like you have like a
whole complete set. So I'm very comfortable and I have a strong feeling that you know like
core is going to win the market. And one of the like the avian the competitors
Right. Every developer says that. They're like, yeah, the EVM compatibility is huge.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm glad to hear that because the whole point of course to have different use cases for every kind of Bitcoiner. So like we have the non-custodial Bitcoin staking. So if you don't want to even bridge over, we have a solution for you. Then if you do want to bridge over, you know, we got every kind of risk you could take. We got the perps. We got colon. We can just lend out your WBTC. You could.
steak B14 G all these different things so it's just like yeah NFTs ordinals ruins so whatever you
want to do on Bitcoin defy that's what core is trying to be the home for any kind of risk so then
you guys are coming on building another great product that's going to be another thing you can do on
here like it's just we're just building out the infrastructure I feel like that's what's all about
just building out the infrastructure of Bitcoin defy
I mean like I see this as a very big value ad because like I feel like I'm particularly like a stable coin believer like you know like I feel like stable coins is going to be the currency and if we have like a stable coin that you know like banks don't have control on directly like it is not linked
to somehow the yields of the, I mean, like, we want to include like US treasuries, but it's just a part of it, right?
Because people can choose if they want to get the, you know, like yield from the US tokenized biddle.
Imagine if what is on Ethereum, they have like the securitized US Treasury.
So you can get exposure to it now.
But even if you don't want, we just have like the NOVA stable coin,
which is generating yield natively on Bitcoin.
Because I'm assuming like eventually there will be a perpetual
DEX, NLX will be having a lot of volume in the future.
So that you know like we can be on chain.
We don't need like off chain support and then we can be completely decentralized,
truly decentralized stablecoin just on Bitcoin itself.
So that is like a true value unlock and you always are pegged to the dollar.
And I mean like you are private, safe, secure.
So I see this as like the future of, you know, like how the money is going to be flowing between currencies.
Then you can on ramp and off ramp it with fiat currencies and that's how like Bitcoin's actual value is going to be, you know, like unlocked.
Yeah, I always say the two best use cases for crypto, Bitcoin and Stablecoins.
And yeah, Corr is trying to be the home of both.
Bitcoin Defi and then there's over a million stablecoin holders.
So yeah, this is going to help on the Stablecoin front and for just, you know, it's like a Bitcoin back stablecoin.
So you kind of have both those in there.
I think those are the two use cases that we've got to build around.
Yeah.
Yeah.
All right. Well, thank you guys so much for coming on here and tell me all about this. I'm really excited to use this myself. I can't wait to stake and get those yields. I'm not going to be in the conservative vault. I'll tell you that I'm excited to get those Bitcoin Nephi yields. So no, thank you guys so much. I don't know if there's anything else. You want to shout at the end, maybe plug like a Twitter or something that people can follow.
Yep, maybe like Devasish, you can mention our Twitter like Sellers HQ, which is like we are like on Twitter, we are going to be posting stuff pretty soon.
Like we are going to be sharing our research about like, you know, like how we look at things.
How is, you know, like these things going to be backed up?
So it's sure that, you know, like your money is safe and all those kind of stuff.
So we are going to be posting out a lot more now in the coming future and telling people about like our developments.
Maybe we can.
Yes.
Yeah.
Cellar is HQ.
I'll make sure to follow that.
Let me see if I could add it on screen.
But yeah, I'm very excited.
It's going to be great.
Let me see if I add that on screen.
Yeah, seller is HQ on Twitter, guys.
You see that at the bottom?
All right, yeah, it's put on noties for them.
I already follow you guys, got your noties on.
So yeah, I'm ready this year, guys, this year.
We are going to be having like Bitcoin back stable coins and that's going to be the future money layer of Bitcoin.
Hell yeah. I see the vision. NUSD.
All right. Thank you guys once again so much. Everyone watching. Thank you very much.
We'll be here next week with another builder session.
But yeah, hopefully I'll have you guys on again soon, maybe closer to main net.
We can really build up some hype.
Yeah, thank you once again.
All right. Have a good day, guys.
Have a good day.
