Hey everyone, this is Maddie.
Please do some emoji racks if you can hear me well.
And we'll be getting started in just a few minutes.
I just dropped a note in Discord as well to let folks know that this was happening.
But thank you so much, Teddy and Dylan, for joining us today.
We're going to be talking a little bit about the first RFP out of the core grants program,
which is the ZK Oracle's RFP.
A few housekeeping notes, and then we will get going.
But if you have questions during the space, please leave them as a reply under this tweet
And we'll take a look and make sure that we answer any questions.
But with that said, thanks again for joining us.
I'm Maddie on the communications team at the Mina Foundation.
And I am joined by Teddy and Dylan, who are spearheading the core grants program from
the Mina Foundation side.
Let's go ahead and get started.
Dylan and Teddy, do you want to do quick intros before we jump into the question?
Great to be chatting here about ZK Oracle's.
I'm on the ecosystem growth team here at the Mina Foundation.
I work at Mina Foundation as a product manager.
I work with Dylan closely on the core grants program, and I'm really excited to chat to
everybody about ZK Oracle today.
I'm having trouble hearing Teddy.
Hopefully, everyone else can hear Teddy.
That's what's most important.
What else do you want me to say?
I'm excited to talk about ZK Oracle.
If everybody can hear me properly, just give us a thumbs up.
If not, I'll try and circle it out.
But yeah, looking forward to this discussion.
Yeah, I think we're good.
Yeah, I'll take over a little bit of MC stuff if you can't hear Teddy.
So I think we have a list of questions that we want to go over right now.
Maddie, do you want to kick us off, or we can kind of kick off with what are Oracles?
I can start answering that, setting a very basic definition that we can build off of.
So Oracles, they facilitate the integration of real-world data into blockchain applications
by acting as intermediaries.
Typically, when people hear the term Oracle, it's usually associated with a price-feed
type of Oracle providing off-chain data to on-chain smart contracts.
But this is just one type of Oracle, among many others.
And I just want to set the stage here.
Though blockchains do require off-chain data, Oracles aren't necessarily the source.
They simply just provide a means to query, verify, authenticate external data that are
often provided via API feeds that then can pass the data on-chain.
And think of an Oracle as sort of like a conduit, but they can function in several different
I don't want to go too much into detail here on just how we can think about an input Oracle
versus an output Oracle versus a cross-chain Oracle.
But I do want to say, and I'm going to pass it on to Teddy soon, that Oracles do solve
an important problem in the blockchain ecosystem.
But there are some complications which lead us to this ZK Oracle stuff.
So when we're going through this conversation, think about how do we verify that the injected
information was actually taken from the correct source or hasn't been tampered with?
And then two, how do we ensure that this data is actually available and updated regularly?
And that's kind of coming in with what ZK Oracles can provide.
And I'll pass it on to Teddy.
Maybe you can kind of discuss a little bit more on what the difference is between an
I think you gave a really good description there, Dylan.
And perhaps a note for any non-technical users that perhaps the most simple way we can understand
an Oracle of any kind is that it is a data provider.
And to move that on to what perhaps is a ZK Oracle is the most succinct definition perhaps
would be that a ZK Oracle is a technology that allows, in one respect, a user to prove
statements without revealing all the data, hence the ZK part, the zero-knowledge aspect
of it, about some foreign data.
And that can come from Web2 or any other part of the real world.
And Dylan touched on it briefly, but of course there's many different kinds and there's
many different ways that one can constrain an Oracle's providing of that data.
So without those very specific constraints, it becomes difficult to know where that data
comes from, what the veracity of it is, and when it can be used and when it can't be used.
And I think that can open all sorts of questions.
Like for example, when we see an identity, do we know who issued it?
Can we verify who issued that identity?
When we see prices that have served to us on various applications, do we know if that
Sometimes I joke that I have a lot of friends who run a lot of miles and I can see that
on various social running applications.
How can I verify that they're actually running that many miles every month?
There's no real provable verifiable way that I can do that.
And sort of ZK Oracle's become this opportunity for Web 2 and Web 3 applications to bring
that feature of verifiability and proving of that data to those applications for end
And I think it's really about giving that granularity of control about where this data
can and can't be used because there's a heck of a lot of data out there about all of us,
both in that private and public domain.
But I'll pause there unless Dylan has some other thoughts.
I think that kind of touches on everything that I want to touch on.
Well, maybe a couple of things.
I think, you know, ZK Oracle's, they can operate as a trustless network without relying on
This could very much contrast with a traditional Oracle that often will depend on a trusted
It's a little bit of an oversimplification.
But yeah, we can kind of think of it through like a one-of-end trust model versus, you
know, or traditional Oracle's that require extensive number of nodes for decentralization.
I mean, this is also just kind of rooted in the concept of how ZK is used for rollups
It's just security could be rooted in mathematics and cryptography, which is just a very different
And it could also mean that ZK Oracle networks are more streamlined since the computation
can be carried out off-chain using ZK.
Anyway, like that's, again, very much an oversimplification.
But yeah, I just wanted to sort of bring up some of those aspects as well.
This would be a major unlock for ZK app developers.
You know, I'll briefly touch on some specific use cases for Oracleized data and application.
The primary one is just retrieving financial data.
DeFi applications obviously require you to get different financial information, exchange
rate data, capital market data.
For example, a lending protocol would need to query current market prices to determine
how much can be borrowed from the system.
These are the types of price oracles like Chainlink or Maker.
Teddy was mentioning running miles on Strava.
You know, I'm not a runner.
But yeah, I think that would be something that is sort of in the line of getting outcomes
You can actually create smart contracts that respond to real world events like running
a marathon or trying to think of some other fitness thing, which means I just need to
get to the gym more often.
But basically, you can connect to external APIs that consume information from various
Something I'm actually quite curious about, too, and something I think is extremely important
is the concept of verifiable randomness.
So with blockchain-based games or just general lottery or gambling, you do require a level
of unpredictability and randomness to work effectively.
What if we can generate a random value off chain, send it on chain, without having the
high trust requirements from users?
Users have to believe that a value was generated in a verifiable and wasn't altered in any
capacity for any type of verifiable randomness type game, gambling thing, speculation to
And I think we'll need CK oracles just for that verifiable information.
But yeah, those are kind of like three areas that I think are quite important for unlocking
what CK oracles can unlock for ZK app developers.
Yeah, I think those are some really good points, Dylan.
And to sort of take it back to what I was just saying a second ago is that there is
just a heck of a lot of data out there about each of us in both that sort of public domain
on social media platforms and also in the private domain.
And Oracleizing sets of that data, subsets of that data and making it consumable by applications,
by ZK apps on Mina is incredibly powerful.
And because it's consumable, it means that we can utilize it.
And as we the owner of that data or the subject of that data, we can use it almost as we see
fit in the scenarios that suit our use cases best.
And I think ZK oracles perhaps present the first solution or one of the first solutions
for some kind of data usage sovereignty.
And whether that data is related to the miles you run on Strava.
And I want to prove that I'm putting a heck of a lot of work into my marathon training.
But I want to prove those things if social media influences is a huge market too.
And if they want to prove the activity and engagement of their followers on various social
media platforms to help enable better agreements with the parties they work with, or perhaps
users want to prove that they are KYC compliant, I think there's a real limitless amount of
When I think of ZK oracles, I think of the spectrum of not just different trust models
as ZK oracles, but also different use cases.
And for each use case, there can be a different trust trade off.
But with the power of zero knowledge applications and proving systems, we can make sure that
they operate within the constraints of that smart contract of that provable program.
And ZK oracles will give Mina developers, Mina ZK app developers, the opportunity to
till the earth, if you will, to almost discover where is fertile land for this data and perhaps
discover new ways that have not new ways of building applications, new use cases that
have not yet existed in Web 3.
I think what's common in our ecosystem, at least in the last several months, and perhaps
the first manifestation of ZK oracles, or it's not commonly sort of stalked as ZK oracle,
has been this sort of KYC compliant transaction, the ability for KYC products to attest that
a specific account on-train or a self-address, if you'd like more privacy, has met some sort
of KYC agreements or requirements.
And I think that really pioneers the direction for people like Lumina through the work of
But of course, there will be others.
And the point of the RFP that we put out as part of the Coral Grant Program is to elicit
ZK oracle providers and developers who have ideas in this arena to help bring their solution,
their offerings to the Mina ecosystem so that we can expand on it.
And like I said, look, there's like a heck of a lot of data out there in that private
And that data can be used for a multitude of things, both good and bad things, right?
There's also security considerations for the articleization of data, not just trust considerations
And so in one regard, whether it's price articles that we're all familiar with, we should not
limit ourselves as an ecosystem, as a sector in Web 3 in general, to just that over-financialization
of applications and products that exist in the Ethereum ecosystem, in the Solana ecosystem,
And I know Vitalik touched on this in his Make Ethereum Cypherpunk again.
I think ZK oracles pushed that door open for more Cypherpunk-like products, specifically
because you can target that aspect of privacy and composable privacy.
So yeah, I'll pause there, but that's my ramble on the unlock of ZK oracles.
So this RFP is part of the core grants program.
Dylan, can you give us an overview of the core grants and how it fits into the landscape
of all of the developer grants available in the Mino ecosystem?
Yes, this RFP is part of the core grants program.
Teddy and I actually gave a presentation discussing the differences between core grants, Mino
Navigators and ZK Ignite a couple of weeks ago, a week and a half ago, a couple of weeks
ago or something like that.
But I'm happy to give a little bit of an overview as well here.
And if you have any additional questions, feel free to message in the chat here.
Core Grants is an additive grant program for the Mino community.
As many of you know, we have been promoting ZK Ignite and Mino Navigators.
So I want to quickly just explain the differences between these three programs.
And then I'll kind of get into where Core Grants comes in.
First, ZK Ignite is a cohort-based community-governed innovation fund that's aimed at idea exploration,
team formation, and business formation.
It's the program designed to support devs with key resources and grants to turn their
ideas into fully-fledged businesses.
Second, we have Mino Navigators, which is an ongoing developer program for new builders
to get started on the Mino protocol.
Hackathons, curriculum, learn-to-earn challenges, these navigators can then improve their understanding
of ZK tech and Mino while getting rewarded with monthly grants.
Both are more top of funnel when compared to Core Grants.
Core Grants is kind of a grant program that is designed to improve developer experiences,
outline standards, and implement new features.
For developers looking to build specific applications, Navigators and ZK Ignite might be a better
I know I say that on AZK oracle-type spaces about Core Grants, but yeah, I mean, just
really think about Core Grants as an additive program providing structured capital and grants
to support and address high priority gaps with more precision.
So we got three grant programs.
Within Core Grants, we'll have two different tracks to manage and support different needs
The first track is called Ecosystem Advancements.
The second for public goods funding.
The former seeks to make new features available to Mina Ecosystem Devs, and the latter looks
to support and fund upkeep and maintenance for public goods.
Yeah, and happy to answer any questions on just the program itself as well.
Cool, I think it was a great summary of the Core Grants program, Dylan.
Yeah, and maybe Teddy, you can actually kind of discuss a little bit of the type of person
with developer or team that is recommended to submit for maybe Core Grants in general,
but then we can dive into who you think is best suited for this type of ZK Oracle RFP
And I'll start with a note that sort of the Core Grants program is open to everybody.
If you have an idea, please come flesh it out in the RFC's Make a Pull Request, copy
the template, flesh out your idea.
We're more than happy to work with the ecosystem to help bring that idea to fruition.
But on the RFP front, the RFP front looks to realize specifically features that are
well defined, that requirements are well understood.
And specifically with this ZK Oracle's RFP, it's really geared towards any developer or
developer team that can realize a ZK Oracle vision that we've outlined.
And what's fantastic so far is that more than a few leading teams in the ZK Oracle space
have reached out and they're looking to bring their own products from other ecosystems to
So it's not only fantastic for the Mina ecosystem because it brings well understood maturing
products in the ZK Oracle space to the Mina ecosystem, but it opens up the opportunity
for working with other ecosystems to help them utilize Mina and Mina's technology as
a composable part of the entire web group sector.
So we're looking for both.
People who have fantastic ideas about ZK Oracle's do not be afraid to submit a proposal.
What I'm going to ask is that everybody who submits proposals follows the proposal template,
which is part of the dropdown of the written RFP on the core grants GitHub repo.
We're looking for everybody who has a great idea in the ZK Oracle space, as well as teams
who are looking to expand their ZKL product offering and bring them to the Mina ecosystem.
So it's a bit of both, but that's to give you a bit of a summary.
And then I think the only other thing that we can cover on the timing and the selection
and delivery of those RFPs is that the current deadline is the February of 7th.
If you're rushing to meet that deadline, give me a heads up.
Give Dylan and I a heads up, and we're more than happy to work with you to make that deadline
a little more flexible to meet your needs.
But if there isn't, we'll be accepting submissions until the end of day on the 7th.
And once all submissions are received, Mina Foundation has a working group in the core
And what we'll do is we'll look to analyze the reach of these proposals, the potential
impact that these proposals can bring to the ecosystem, and ultimately the value each proposal
can deliver to Mina's ZK app developers.
So what we're looking for really is what relevance does this bring to the Mina ecosystem?
And Mina's ZK app developers tell enough us to make as much of that data that's out
there in both public and private domains available to Mina ecosystem developers so they can begin
to integrate those ideas into their applications.
And once we've done that analysis, what we'll do is we'll release those results and grant
out the successful submissions.
That's my little summary on who we might be looking for, and also that timing and
I'm glad you brought up the timing.
Lamps, thank you also for bringing that question up.
The reality is this is a new program.
If it's too soon, tell us and we'll manage around that too.
So we're working through this with you guys, you all here, step by step.
Yeah, and if anything, we can be the pen that writes the story and in the best, you can
all give us ideas, improvements to work on.
If there is an example of another program that particularly inspires you, do let us
What we're willing to do is work with the community to make sure that this program results
in the best and most positive results for the ecosystem.
So do give us your feedback, give us your ideas, lend us your ears, and tell us how
you'd like to change things.
So as Dylan said, this is sort of the first iteration of what we're doing, and with every
iteration we go through into the future, it will only get better.
Any other interesting RFPs we can kind of bring up on this chat?
I've got a couple, a couple that are waiting in their wings, ready to release.
But yeah, there's one that I'm looking to publish soon about data availability, looking
at bringing data availability, it's a bit of a mouthful, data availability solutions
to demeanor ecosystems so that ZCap developers can look at data availability solutions and
integrate them as best they see fit.
And then there's another one I'm working on about gaming, and how we can look at bringing
provable games and game engine to the demeanor ecosystem to bring in that narrative that's
beginning to become so popular in Web3 at the moment.
So those are sort of two that are in my backlog and are waiting to get released.
And I won't tease anymore, but yeah, there's some really exciting things that we're looking
forward to releasing in the near future.
I mean, I think there's some really cool things that we want to push up within the
Again, just as I was mentioning before, this is an additive program to use EK Ignite and
You want to touch on everywhere that a developer within the Mina ecosystem can touch.
And yeah, provide the necessary support to just build out the protocol.
Maddie, any other questions that you think we should be answering, or we can just jump
into some of the audience questions?
I was having some technical difficulties, so I didn't catch all of the conversation.
But Dylan was incredible, as always.
So thank you for taking over there.
There are a couple of questions from the audience that we can get into.
I know that you addressed LAMP's question around timing.
I guess I would add, too, that I think there are a few teams that are planning to submit
strong proposals, we hope.
But if we need to push out the deadline, then we absolutely can.
I guess we'll know closer to that February 7th date.
And I think that that's probably a good segue into this question from Anuj, which is, what
if none of the proposed solutions are apt enough?
And we continue to try to get more.
I think there's two things.
One, we can continue to extend the deadline, continue to get and talk to people to submit
But if proposals aren't apt enough, then we can also work with the team to get it to the
point where it's what we want to see and what our community wants to see.
So just because it's not 100 percent perfect doesn't mean that we won't give you feedback
and work with you to get it to the point where we're working together to build the
best EK oracle for the mean of protocol.
Another question, how do you propose that proof systems fit into this schema?
I think that this might have been asked in relation to the landscape of available developer
So do you see proof systems as something that fits under the remit of core grants or is that
something that is really needed in the ecosystem right now?
What about a ZK Ignite project?
What are your thoughts there?
Do we mean proof systems that fit into a meanest proof system or do we mean something
I think if we're talking about composability in this aspect, too, right, if we're talking
about proving the verification of other proof systems like growth 16, for example, I think
that perhaps would be something that we can look at through the RFP and RFC process.
Again, if people have thoughts and ideas on bringing the verification of proof systems to
MENA, please bring your ideas, bring your thoughts.
We're more than happy to help bring those ideas to fruition and maturity so that we can
write an RFP and grant out that implementation.
I think it's a really interesting thing, particularly with MENA's proving system is the
ability to prove the verification of other proof systems on MENA, and that gives the
MENA ecosystem access to the tooling, the ideas, the applications that exist elsewhere.
And that gives you the real richness and the power of MENA's proving system natively, too.
So that's my answer on the question.
I think that's a really good answer.
Just reviewing some of the comments here, if anyone has any last second questions, feel free to
I'm seeing a lot of spam.
So we're not going to answer some of these things.
If there are no other further questions, I think we can close this out and again, feel free to
message me, Maddie, Teddy, anyone in the MENA community, anyone on the MENA Foundation team to
answer any questions on ZK Oracles, court grants, navigators, ZK Ignite, all the really exciting
things that we are doing to bring on more and more incredible developers like yourselves.
So yeah, thank you so much for having us and attending this space and we'll chat some more.
Thanks for joining, everyone.