Hello everyone and welcome to the club. We are just getting started in a second. Just a bear with us. We're just sorting out the technical details and we'll be right back with you. Just hang on.
All right everyone I believe we are just about to get started. Yes. Sorry my Twitter was like just simply not connecting for me.
I apologize. No worries man. It happens to all of us. I just got disconnected also just a second ago. So I hope you've on this working on this because Twitter space is not the most stable application right now.
So you're able to speak brain jar. I can see you're in mute right now. Yeah, yes, yes. Thanks for having me. Perfect. All right. Well, let's just dive right in. Welcome to the club, everyone, where we talk on
things cosmos and everything around the cosmos ecosystem. And today we got you, Brentyer from Picasso and Composable Finance. You guys are working on a lot of different things which is super exciting really to extend.
that cosmos beyond our own little echo chamber, if you will. But perhaps for the uninitiated and the people who don't know what is Picasso, perhaps also what is composable finance and why do people need to pay attention here.
Yeah, absolutely. So what we're really trying to do with Picasso and composable as a whole is really bring about this future of any money, any chain, anywhere.
this means is like if you actually listen to the customer which is the individual who wants to do things in crypto on different chains without having to have 10 different infrastructures
10 different opsec configurations and 10 different, you know, DAPS that they know about. Like all these things present extreme amount
of user overhead. And so the future re-envision is first laying the foundation such that chains can actually talk to each other, trustlessly, without having
you know any risk of a trusted bridge rugging and because of that and as a result of that being able to then have protocols talked to each other on different charts and what this ends up looking like
is a user can specify that they want to do xyz functionality and then this occurs on multiple different chains. And the real beauty of this is this complexity of like knowing which protocols the
use, knowing which chains to use, etc. all sort of dissipates. So an actual example of this would be I'm a I'm a Kepler wallet holder. I have all my assets on osmosis and
I now want to take out a loan on Umi and also use the Pablo decks on Picasso. You can do all of those things one after the other all while using the same capital wallet. That's the power of the tech that we're building.
Awesome. I think just to tap into more on the bridge side of things and you mentioned already IBC enabled chains, Cosmos change where you can move assets very easily around,
between AppChains and UMEO, whatever osmosis, whatever AppChains you want to move as is to, but you are going as to beyond that. I believe you call it the IBC-poweredcosama.com.
bridge if I'm not mistaken, or dot-samma for short. Perhaps you can tell us more about how that works because that's I think new to a lot of people, especially in the Cosmos ecosystem, to go beyond IPC. Yes.
We have IBC is a transport protocol. So it is possible for you to extend a transit
for protocol to other chains. All that's required is you need to reuse or I guess implement
the same features and components that make up this transport protocol on different chains. Okay, so when you take a look at IBC, what does that actually mean? That means a relayer that in between two chains, that means two light clients, one
running for chain B, one running for chain A on chain A and chain B respectively. And then you need infrastructure to actually interpret messages from one chain to the next. Right.
What does this look like then? So this means that we had to sit down and build a like client for Cosmos chains on our chain as a Polkadot pair chain. And we had to build a like client for Cosmos chains to implement that would be able
to read, poke it on, parachains. So we had to build those two lifelines. We had to build a brand new relay called hyperspace. We had to refactor IBC, RS, to understand IBC packets in the parachain
context and we had to build a Wazen module to actually wrap the like clients on the Cosmos side so that Cosmos chains could actually add it to the runtimes. So by doing all of this, now you can actually have
can transfer packets with messages and any sort of any any of the composability that you would see within the IVC context is now extended to Kusama and Polkadot.
Yeah. And the big benefit, if I'm not mistaken, is that you don't need to rely on bridges to the same extent, at least to move assets from Cosmos chains or IPC chains to Polkadot. Is that correctly understood or are there still you mentioned like bridge road bridge
getting in rocked for example. So you avoid that risk essentially with this setup. Yeah, I mean, so IBC is a is a trust minimize protocol. So all these solutions that you see out there like layer zero, like axelar, like
You know, pretty much any bridge, multi chain, wormhole. These are all trusted solutions. Like, it's a couple of centralized third parties away from a multi hundred million dollar exploit.
IBC is different where there are no centralized third parties at all right the the only trust assumption where I guess the major trust assumption is that both chains are honest so if
If you have an honest majority of validators on both chains, then you can trust that the information being broadcast from one chain to the next is valid. Yeah. And if that I think that's a fair assumption because we don't have that in place, then we got
bigger problems to sold out. Yeah, and this is also the reason why shared security is such a big deal in Polkadot is because like for you to rug a Polkadot parochine, it would cost you like several billion dollars. So
Yeah, so I think that's also a major reason why we've built an IBC hub as a parachain actually. Yeah, and perhaps just for anyone interested out there, how was the process of bidding on the parachain? That's very different of course from how
You would set up an app chain in customers, so just for people who are ignorant to that, who hasn't looked into that too much. How was the process for you? I mean, it was a pain. It was a pain. Like everyone knows that it's a pain. It's also a pain because, you know,
It's a competitive process. It's just something that you have to pay attention to for a while, especially as a founder. But I really don't think that this is any different than Cosmos projects, air dropping,
substantial amount of supply to to you know, stakers from other communities, right? Right. So it's just like it's an uncomfortable annoyance, but it's like pretty, it serves the same purpose, I would say.
Yeah, that makes sense. And I guess once you are a parachain and you won the auction, then you sort of get the exposure from all
the other pair of chains that are already running on Pokerataku Zama. Is that correct? You understood just like an air drop in the cosmos where you get a lot of exposure essentially. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think so. I mean
Yeah, let's say the answer is yes. Yeah. Yeah, so it works very much the same way. So for anyone out there who doesn't know how parachains work, you can read up on this. It's basically an auction, but at the end of the day, it's similar to an ad-drop, as you say, which I think is quite interesting.
parallel actually. But moving back a little bit to Picasso. So you guys are working with something called Centauri. Maybe you can talk more about that and the advantages of using that, having into the Cosmos ecosystem compared to other bridges like Axel
you mentioned already. Yeah I mean so like when when you talk about IBC right when you say like the IBC ecosystem do you like I don't think anyone actually imagined that IBC would be anything
more than cause most chains. At least it wasn't really something that was possible for a long time. So we sort of had to come up with a different name for what
Cosmones to something else IBC would look like and so that's why we've called the I guess chain agnostic implementation of IBC Centauri because that's basically
I mean, yeah, we've essentially extended the IBC specification and turned it into this kind of like extension basically aged it like 20 years. Yeah, that's the way we think about it.
Awesome. So that means if I'm not mistaken, you're basically able to adopt right now pocket art or in bed pocket art built on top for IBC, but you can extend that to other ecosystems. I know you had a little announcement and not too long ago, I think it was today or yesterday with the near protocol.
as well. Yeah, so we're working on extending IBC to near to Ethereum to the CK sync to all the rollups to data availability layers. So yeah, we're like IBC maximalist
But also within the dot signer perspective, we still use XEM. Right? Like our chain still communicates to state mine and other pair of chains using IBC. Sorry, using XEM. Yeah, maybe just
elaborate a bit on that XEM. I think that's a new term for a lot of people, especially in customers. So maybe you can just speak more to what that is in the first place and why it's useful if not crucial for you guys to use for Centauri. Yeah, so XEM
is basically the way that parachains talk to each other. So what parity has discovered when they build the relay chain is by having a central hub where data is submitted for validation, you could actually
actually also, you know, it's a similar situation sort of like, are you familiar with like shared sequencers for rollups? So if you have like shared sequencers for two rollups because the sequencer is shared, then you now have like
cross-chain composability and the ability to perform atomic swaps and then a whole bunch of fun stuff there. So like, Parachain Land is kind of like very similar to what is envisioned by all the roll-up
maximalist. So it's like, yeah, these like distinct execution layers that submit data to a central location. And then it's actually settled and verified. So you can sort of think is the really of the really chain is kind of being like a shared sequencer set for
all these parachains because of that you now have the ability to pass messages between these chains and have them be settled in the same way. So that's what XM is is basically like trustless communication between
two chains within that somewhat context. Nice. And by the way, you mentioned just briefly, but I wanted to comment on it that IBZ is only going to stay within the Cosmos ecosystem. I think that's absolutely right. You need a more Cosmos chains in our
of 5C to grow. But the hope that we see in Cosmos is that people like yourself, organizations projects like yourself, is going to take the technology of IBC and extend that go beyond that go to other ecosystems and build some kind of bridge like you guys have done with
the centauri. So a great job on that by the way. We put a lot of faith in people like yourself. Yeah, thank you. I mean, I have a similar vision where I would like for IVC to include Ethereum and everywhere else, basically.
So I think we're aware of this, you know, I'm glad that you have this opinion and like most of the community has this opinion because it took us about a year to get everybody on the same page from a technical perspective. So, so yeah.
And I think that touches upon something that is floating in the air, always, between cosmos and pokerlut, because they are very similar in many, many ways. And what happens, unfortunately,
with the crypto especially I think when projects are very similar or ecosystems are very similar they start to fight each other. You guys seem to be almost like a fly between two nails with the setup that you have
How has your experience been with that and how can we avoid finding each other and work together instead? Do you think you have an opinion on that? Yeah, I mean like I don't really believe that maximum is
There's no real point to maximalism. I think like we're all early adopters of visual assets and until like you can go to Latin America and had somebody
wallets and they can find financial freedom not caring about what the underlying chains are that they're using to to custody their assets or to make money.
doesn't really matter until that point. And so I think because if you work backwards from that big vision, you realize that there really is no place for maximalism to be honest. So yeah. Yeah, that the Mosque
your most convenient cheapest fastest whatever pick your poison, let that chain be the one of choice or whatever preference that you have as a user, right? Whether you're sitting in the US, in Latin America, in Europe, Asia, whatever, right? There's a use case for a lot of different chains. So
Yeah, that's exactly right. That's exactly right. So just going back a bit to both Picasso and Composable, you're launching a testnet not too long now or in the near future, but you can start playing around and give you guys feedback. Is that correct?
Yeah, so what we're doing now for to start onboarding So for us to actually have this bridge so when we say like bridge between cosmos and polka dot It's kind of like a misnomer because it just makes it sound like
we're going to only have like one connection, that's not the case. We need to have a connection with every single Cosmos chain out there that supports IBC. So what this means is it's probably going to be like 30 plus chains that we're connected to.
So because of that we've set up a test net effort to basically invite projects to come and play around with our implementation, osmosis, duality,
Babylon and a few others are like the early adopters of this and in the future we hope you know every cosmos chain joins this testing effort. Yeah, that's the vision right to have a basically
anyone, any chain that is IPC enabled should be able to adopt this. I presume. Exactly. And how are you guys approaching that? Because right now, if I remember correctly, there's 54 zones, 54 app chains.
There's a lot of people you need to talk to. Yeah. I mean, so obviously like we have our BD team is working tirelessly to onboard everybody. The other key piece is actually if cosmos chains
upgrade to the latest version of the SDK version 47 and if they upgrade to the latest version of IBC V7 then they'll actually have the components necessary to start
communicating with our chains, with our with our with our Picasso pair of chain. So actually, like at some point, you know, after these things get merged and after people start performing these upgrades, like it hopefully won't be so much of a lift.
I see. I mean, God have mercy on your BD team because they are not only going to talk to 54 plus app chains in Cosmos, they also going to talk to near protocol, ecosystem, Ethereum and all.
the other ecosystems that you mentioned during the space. So God bless them. Yeah. So right now you're focused
focus obviously is Cosmos and Polka. We talked a little bit about how we start working together instead of fighting each other. Where do you think Cosmos and Polka. is heading in 2023 and beyond? What sort of excites you with the two ecosystems these days?
I think we're going to see a lot of really interesting app chains on the Cosmos side emerge duality for instance. For a long time it's really just been osmosis.
Has captured like a lot of like mainstream attention Right, but there's also like crescent and context and a goryk and all these new Appchain players from 2022. I think are going
to become, you know, Juno, these guys are going to become more and more important throughout 2023. I think for me, like what I would really want to see personally is
You know, Cosmos continues to become this app chain location. So, you know, dy/dx is deploying their USDC is deploying their, I wouldn't be surprised if like GMX deploys their as an app
chain. So I think that what's going to happen is like we will have a bunch of infrastructure on our chain for XCBM, which is basically a cross-chain virtual machine. So basically what this
means is like I anticipate people writing applications and deploying it on our chain to tap into cosmos chains near protocols and ethereum protocols and other places and because you
ban so many different ecosystems, like if these applications do become high enough in terms of volume and traction, I would say that them deploying as their own parachains with this shared security
does make sense. So I've always thought that Polkadot is going to emerge eventually as this place where people are building applications that span multiple different ecosystems and Cosmos continues to build sort of
like applications specific things. Interesting. It's a very interesting take and you mentioned the IDX which I think is a great example actually of division at least coming to life in cosmos where massively successful taps
in EVM compatible DAPS basically running on Ethereum or any layer 2 would start seeing some upper bar for what they can achieve as a DAP on Ethereum and then moving on to building their own Appchain. Exactly like the EYDX
We have them actually on by the way, tomorrow in a space for anyone who's interested to listen to what they have to say. But taking that example, do you IDX? Say they set up their app chain as they're working on right now. And yeah, so they start operating their IPC enabled and having shits on transactions.
which they have today, but now on running on customers. What will be the next step for them to let's say go beyond just customers in IBC to put some of the pocket dots near and all that with you guys to need to install something like another package to be able to extend people
on how does that work basically? Yeah, so they just need to install this, this was on clients and then basically we need to spin up a relayer called the hyperspace relayer to be able to broadcast packets between say dy
the X and RRChain. Again, things like dy/dx because they're still in testnet or things like celestial because they're still in testnet. When these guys actually launch, they will launch with the latest versions of IBC and the latest
versions of the Cosmos SDK and because of that they'll already support us out of the box. Maybe they just won't know it. But yeah, that's again where like our BD team comes into play to actually educate them about like the step
to make this thing go live. But I think that's kind of groundbreaking for Cosmos. I mean, it's a huge value add if you can start with building an App Chain, like TYDX, and then quickly afterwards, really,
work with you guys to extend beyond IBC enabled chains. I mean that that seems like a huge announcement that we should talk more about in Cosmos in general if you ask me. Yeah, I mean I think people are just waiting to actually like see it right like in practice. And then I think people
will like appreciate it a bit more because obviously like you know we've talked about this for a long time and we're not the first right like other people have talked about IBC to other places before that will be the first people to actually like make this dream a reality
Yeah. And just a quick question that I just thought about, why did you guys choose polka dot as a first or kusama as a first ecosystem to tackle? Was there a reasoning behind that? Yeah, so that's a great question. So first of all, when you look
to build like I described at the beginning of this conversation like the requirements for IBC, right, like clients. And so when we set out to say okay which ecosystems can we connect, aka which ecosystems have like clients really
It's just the chains that have deterministic finality and also the chains that kind of like were smart enough to build a like client or like laid the foundation to be able
to build a like client from day zero. Near is one such example. You know, back in a day, Ilya tweeted a lot about IVC. No one was really paying attention, but
You know, that's... He built the near protocol so that IBC would be something that was possible in the future. I don't know if he explicitly did that in line, but he at least laid the foundation such that a light client was possible.
Right, but then you have cases like Solana where you don't have a like client. It's not possible to make a like client. You have finality problems. So we realize that like it's probably and also EF2
is possible now to be able to do IBC. But before that, it wasn't possible because of the finality differences, right? Proof of work versus proof of stake. So, Polkadot seemed to be like a very, like, great location, not
only to start with this IBC journey, but also because IBC really lacks a hub. What is the hub for IBC? Well, the Cosmos hub was supposed to be the hub for IBC, but then never actually happened. So now you have all these
There's like fungibility problems, right? Like you bridge from chain A to chain B to chain C. If you want to bridge from chain C to chain A, it's not possible. If you have a hub that fixes some of these issues, right? Because then you have to always jump back to the hub.
When we were thinking about, "Okay, what is the biggest issue with IBC?" It is again this honest, majority problem. Like, "Can your validator be compromised?" And as a standalone cosmos chain, like, it is a legitimate concern.
Like again, that's why people care about ICS, right? Because now consumer zones don't have to worry about 51% of tax anymore. And so for us, we said, okay, we're gonna build an IBC hub.
we want the most amount of security possible for that IBC hub and Polkadot has the best feature about Polkadot is this massive amount of shared security that's available. So it was a logical place for us to build this hub.
Yeah, it makes sense. I mean, the hub that that hub is generally referred to as well, obviously, Cosmos hub, but also as Moses, which is, I would say the liquidity hub on on Cosmos, but yeah, point taken that it is very
distributed and diverse out there for anyone new coming to Cosmos is very confusing to a lot of people in the beginning. So yeah, having that hub will be a big value ad for the entire ecosystem, not just Cosmos but all the ecosystems as well, I'm sure.
And that brings me to community questions. We have a lot of people asking questions on Twitter, maybe you had a chance to see some of them already, but a lot of activity there, so that just speaks to people being excited about what you guys are building, I think. And one of the questions that I just
popped into my eye here is a USA mic who is asking how or can we get to a point where users don't think in terms of poker dot or cosmos or something. But just look at a clean UI or interface they use and then conduct whatever transactions they need.
without really jumping through different hoops to do the transactions or whatever they need to do. Do you think, is that really what you are building? I think that's a question really. That's where you want to head to. Yeah, I mean, so what you need is basically two key components.
account abstraction and you need a intention or preference engine basically. So the biggest reason, the first reason why we lose so many people in crypto is because of private
keys. The one thing that Near did that I think was like the single most bullish component of Near back in the day when they were first launching was the wallets are actually all smart contracts.
which is like a really, really, really great feature of Nier that people don't actually pay attention to, but that's a huge benefit. Why? Because if you lose your private keys, there is a way to recover your funds socially.
I think that that is like having some sort of cross-chain account abstraction is really important. So being able to have a single UI where you're able to connect multiple different wallets from different
ecosystems and then those funds are all stored on smart contracts so that it really doesn't matter which underlying wallet you're using. You know that your funds are stored securely and only you can withdraw them.
is I think the first major issue. And so actually like some some alpha, we are definitely we love alpha. We are definitely looking into like how best to to architect something like what I'm describing from a you know really nice user
experience perspective. We've done something over the song called XCBM app that showed people a glimpse of what that actually looks like. So the user would show up, type in, you know, connect all their wallets, and then from there, be able
to specify what they want to accomplish. At that point, you need to have a preference engine to actually route you to specific locations. Flash falls.
that aggregator but a smart contract that sorts that out basically. Yeah, yes, exactly. And then at some point you then have to actually specify what you want to do, right? I want to transfer, I want to
to stake on five different chains, like, it doesn't matter, just five. Someone needs to come in and actually tell you what the best place is to do that, right? And so that's where you have people like Flashballs talking about Swalve.
single unifying auction for value extraction, where basically people are coming in and bidding on your order flow. Imagine Lido is literally paying you to have a portion of your staking flow
flow to light on. That's a whole new way of doing liquidity mining too. Because that's like driving people to actually use the protocol. So I think with those two things, that's how you unlock full seamless user experience.
It's sweet. It truly is amazing what's going on in the Cosmos ecosystem when you start looking around. I wasn't even aware of all this and I've been looking into you guys. So yeah, so many things going on. It's quite exciting to be honest.
Speaking of other ecosystems, you mentioned the area mentioned Pocodon, of course. Bitcoin is the behemoth still, and typically where we all started, when our crypto and blockchain journey. So a question from the community from Juju is
What are your thoughts on the possibility of native Bitcoin on Picasso or Composable, if you will? How difficult is it and given that it's not as compatible of a chain as Cosmos? Sorry, what the question is, given that it's not as compatible of a chain as Cosmos on New Year?
Yeah, I mean it's it's like There are people like interlay in dot-sama and nomic and cosmos We're trying to do like trustless IBC Sorry trustless
like, um, I BTC and NBTC I guess like, raps, Bitcoin derivatives. Um, yeah, like, I don't think there's a way to do IBC.
Between Bitcoin and some other chain I wish that was possible, but I don't know to be honest like if that will ever be possible Right, yeah, so assuming that nomic so
else out what they're working on and everything runs smoothly, smooth sailing, then maybe there's a possibility, but you will have to rely on other chains or other's implementation in order to get Bitcoin on your
portals as well. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, everyone is like pretty, everybody seems to be okay with WBTC. And WBTC is nothing more than a multi-sig, right? So yeah, yeah.
True. Then there's a question from Daredevil who asks what applications or SDKs do you expect to see so that the connection flourishes and both ecosystems grow and by both ecosystems I
believe is referring to.sama and cosmos. Yeah, so how are we going to do this is basically like for developers who want to tap into protocols on both sides.
We're going to be building a Rust SDK to let people be able to deploy contracts on both sides, like basically hook it out and the respective Cosmos chains.
and be able to interoperate in this manner. So we'll have a Rust SDK, we'll also have a Cosmos SDK module that can interpret outbound messages from one chain to the next.
Yeah, okay, make sense. And then we got a question. We got a multiple question from Marty, who is asking first and foremost about the tokens. So he's referring to Pika, Chaos and Pablo or PBLO. Can you explain
each token basically. Yeah so Pika is the token that is out currently that is used to secure our Kusama Network chaos is a old term for what's known as XPika now which
which is basically you stake Peca for X Peca and you receive, you're able to stake that with a co-later and earn rewards in that manner along with other revenue in the future. And Pablo is the token for
the decks, the Pablo decks, it's also currently live as well. And he mentioned chaos. I'm not familiar with that, but yeah. Chaos is what we used to call expika, but it's now just expika.
Fair enough. And then Marty goes on to ask, where does Picasso fit in the composable ecosystem and how will Picasso work with composable paraging? Yeah, so everything is deployed on Picasso first, right? So,
Everything that I've described today is like everything happens on Picasso. So, yeah, so that's the like understanding. And in the future, like I think there will be
There'll be the continued usage of Picasso as a routing hub. So something I didn't mention before is we actually have a bridge between Kusama and Polkadot, also over IBC.
And so we can distribute distribution of IBC flow across both these chains.
Okay. Just a quick follow up because I'm ignorant to this. How long have you guys been building? Because every time I ask you a question, I feel like there's something you guys have been working on and even the boys. So it sounds like you guys have been working on this for quite some time.
Yeah, so we've been around since May 2021. So yeah, it's been a long time coming for all these things. Yeah, it's a long time in crypto, but not so much in normal
I will call it non-blockchain world. Yeah. All right, so Marley goes on to ask, what is Picasso Crablo and Parachain Bolt's strategy? The Crablo already happened a year ago.
And the Vault strategy has been deprecated, so those are just old things.
Yeah, so don't need to worry about that in the foreseeable future sounds like.
And then finally, are there any additional use cases facilitated by XCVM? Yeah, so XCVM you'll be able to see things like
spake_atom_statum_statum_statum_statum_statum_statum_statum_statum_statum_statum_statum_statum_statum_statum_statum_statum_statum_statum_statum_statum_statum_statum_stat#
take that LP token, stake it with a quasar vault or something like that. This is what XIVM enables. Fantastic. I think that's more or less a question that I
ask from the community now. We've been a lot of them questions that we've asked before, so no need to repeat them. But something that I think is worth doubling down on or at least on the lining is right now you're integrating, setting up a bridge
Let's call that between cosmos and dot sama Near is coming up and you also mentioned or just named dropped really a bunch of oligosystems Ethereum and others Can you just repeat that just for anyone who can't believe what they're hearing because that's
That's how I felt in the beginning. That sounds super awesome that you are approaching all these ecosystem. Yeah, DK thing, Ethereum, data availability solutions like Celestia and Polygon of Vale and Eigenlayer
What else did I mention? Yeah, Arbitram optimism, Starknet. These are all like, priority. There's no specific order, but East too is definitely the next big focus.
as all the layer 2s on Ethereum, maybe polygon? - Yeah, polygon, B and B, like, exactly. Yeah, I sort of grouped these things with the ETH 2 just because they same infrastructure unlocks all of these things at once, basically. Layer 2 is a different beast.
makes sense. And I guess once you talk to one of them, you might as well approach all of them because if one is interested, probably all the others are as well. And they should be. That's the hope, right?
no more bridge risk 2023 yeah that's the that's the old yeah no more wormholes or Ronin bridge or the list just goes on really exactly awesome is there something you want to leave the community with
with today, you already spilled a little bit of alpha with what I would call the wallet aggregator, which sounds absolutely amazing to be quite honest. I would very much anticipate to try that out myself, because I use way too many wallets already. Any other things you want to leave the community with.
Yeah, just let me know if there are Cosmos chains. You think we should be talking to, if you have any Cosmos chains in mind, please shoot them over to me, DM me on Telegram.
And yeah, ship or die. Fantastic. And as mentioned already, the test net is coming out so people can start testing things out and giving feedback, etc. So people should stay tuned for that.
I guess as well. Exactly. Yep. Awesome. And just on the final note, I can just disclose that I know you have COVID. So thank you so much for taking the time. You've been very generous with your time today, despite having COVID.
I think that speaks volumes to how you guys are just working through this and powering through this. So keep up the good work. You guys are doing fantastic. And we thank you for that. - Of course, thank you for having me. - All right, thanks man. Take care. - See you.