Hello guys and welcome to the Cosmos Club. Sorry about the slight delay I believe Alter is here and is able to speak at least I just accepted the request.
Now I'm doing an audio here. I feel like my audio is a bit...
Let me just adjust that while we wait.
Are you able to speak alter?
Hey, yeah, I think so. Super. Yes, I can hear you. Perfect. Welcome to the club Oscars. Thank you. Thank you.
What time is it where you are based? It's at the PM, but it is what it is. Oh wow. Working late tonight huh?
almost every day I see that's just another another day in the alter life that's true I mean we we have like international teams well and I basically located in Europe so and then of course if you want to all
also expanded and do something in nation markets. So it's very early up and then basically also want to cover at least some few hours from the United States. So basically it's nice growing but I mean not a time not to
enjoying it. So crypto never sleeps they say right? So yeah, the builders the builders of tomorrow's crypto shouldn't either I guess. How did you by the way first hear about the Cosmos Club was I
believe you were someone from your team at least was in one of our spaces with somebody else. I was in. I basically joined everywhere so I can be in the background as well and just the care out what is going on in the personal space. Yeah. Also, outside of
space, so pretty wide open ears and basically just listening in mostly and if I know that partners are on the stage and I'm definitely coming on the stage to say something but but in general yeah so
super. Always listening, always up to dates and definitely have a huge, expanding view on things. Awesome. I just take it to myself. Awesome, man. Well, to respect your time and knowing that it's
laid over where you are based. I guess we should just get started. I can see people are joining in also. So welcome everyone to the Cosmos Club where we talk all things Cosmos. We tweet daily from our Twitter accounts and summarize that in a weekly news
later, which you can sign up by our Twitter account. And then we invite interesting, fascinating, hardworking guests who are extending the Cosmos ecosystem and hard at building things. And today we have Alter with Oscars. Thank you so much for joining.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank for having me. More than glad to speak anywhere. Awesome man. So without further ado, we always like to ask what is alter about why is it important and why do people need to pay attention here?
a complete unique way on how we're solving the privacy. There are a lot of competitors, direct indirect ones, but the way that we're building it and also scaling it is that we want to have a sustainable and also scalable infrastructure.
Not on the so called applications solution side so much but much more on the infrastructure So we can support a lot of integrations as well as SDK solutions for anyone who is interested or want to space to use it and of course you have a support
support from a wallet side and as well from standard wallet as well support. And then basically what we want to also achieve is that anybody who wants to build on the infrastructure, we want to offer also the
mobile versions that are native on iOS and Android and then of course you want to have a desktop version as well. But in general we want to solve the price issue that the majority of data is not encrypted in globally that means all
also majority of communications are not either encrypted or protected with less security that are not involving any photography. Because in general, like the first step I would say to much more decentralized and much more private
is encryption. At the moment GDPR, like Canada doesn't regulate that. For example, in Europe, but I would foreseen that encryption would be something that is really required. And what we have made on the other side is that
every user actually owns their encryption key so that means you are the only one similar to memonic phrase of your wallet we have taken that concentration like an approach that memonic wallet is the phrase like is exactly almost the same
the private key. So basically everything that is going on is encrypted on your end or your side. Also the priority crypts are not saved on our side. So that's why you need to provide them every single time you kind of look in. But of course, we have now created a
improve version that you can use to create a smart contract to store the private and kept shingy. So it's much more better now to login. Of course, it's easier to connect and log out as well. And as for the mobiles, we're going to have a so called tokens that are
connected from the web browser to mobile similar like to a violence you are code that you login from your on your desktop client with your mobile wallet but it will be with a version so and in general we're using signal to
basically because we want to have, I would say, Signal has the programmable price in also small contracts that has the possibility to actually give a solid anonymity and also to give the users the so-called
management of everything that they have and how we are using like a sick network. So basically the messages that our people are sending, we put everything from metadata side and also for that integrity and verification in
to this one contract. People can verify that because on each of the, for example, mail for each of the mail you will see a check mark and also you will see the progress. How it's being pushed onto the small contract.
So, and you have all the details to check on the small content user interface whether it's being actually pushed onto the small content and you can verify by yourself without any knowledge because we have provided all the details, instructions, values that you need to do and another
The thing of course we are utilizing a signal network for the private key storage and also for allies, allies are the so-called altered profiles that will be also be pushed onto the small contract.
because we can do a lot of things with this Mark Hunter because if it's static data that doesn't change 24/7, then we can easily push it onto the privacy Mark Hunter.
That's in a nutshell, but please do ask more questions so I can be much more specific. Yeah, a lot to unpack there, I think. And I will definitely circle back to some of the things that you already mentioned, but perhaps for the listener who doesn't know or is not aware of all
are already, perhaps talk us through the sort of user experience, the journey that someone will go through, being able to chat, message, and share files in a private setting or on a private network is something that I think a lot of people have either heard about
or even experience with something like telegram or signal or whatever other mobile app or web app that they've used. So how is the experience with alter perhaps also compared to something like telegram or signal?
I would say that the telegram signal there just a messaging, chatting for applications, what we want to have is much more better utilities and also productivity tools. Of course we have incorporated chat features, but that's like
one of the things that we incorporate similar to the telegram has or signal or session has. Of course, when we compare with them, I would say that it will be much more easy to use on our
because we're going to be improving the so-called user experience and user interface because I mean so far I would say all those applications that I have mentioned before they kind of have some bad things
like spamming possibilities as well as fishing because I mean recreating a support group for a wallet. It's so crazy. I mean I've been in my... why did I like for... I would say in the last years like 12 times.
And people are just being scammed out of this. The same with Discord, I mean, and thus like telegram groups are not encrypted. By the way, only your secret private chat on one to one is only encrypted. And majority of people doesn't
know that. So I would say telegram is just another WhatsApp maybe compare with applications but somehow people are choosing to tell him the safe but no. Next thing is like signal of course it's much more better and they have double ratchet as well so basically
re-encrypting already encrypted information and then basically the keys are always turning around the thing. So that means it is, I would say it is private, definitely no father whatsoever but what I really may something know is that
I don't see the private encryption keys and I don't own them. The only thing that you start your private chat, so that means it says it is private, there is a notification to this and it's encrypted but where can I see it?
the key, can I change it, can I give my own encryption key and also where it is stored, if it's stored on mobile device, how it's stored on my mobile device. So there's like a lot of questions to ask, you know, but like the more
And most simple solutions of course that you just give those encryption keys to the users to manage and hold. So that's the biggest part like how we are approaching the privacy aspect and trustability. Of course there's always great discussions over open source, closed source.
Both of them have their own pros and cons, but in general, like both of them cannot guarantee full privacy or security. So, applications need then to, the products must then provide something that is
very reliable and the most reliable thing is that you're providing the encryption keys to users always to hold it and so on. That's what we have taken the approach. Nice. Yeah, and it's super cool, honestly.
And something that the world needs badly, not just privacy and being able to have safe and secure channels that you can take control of, but also just being able to verify on a decentralized network, you use Secret.
That's actually obviously we are the Cosmos Club and a lot of people here are very curious about Cosmos in particular. So perhaps speak more to why you chose Secret Network, Cosmos in general. Yeah, why build on top of that and not something else that might exist out there.
Yeah, so basically we started in last year, early last year around March till I would say June, we were doing our in these about photography and about all these communication applications and solutions.
and the data so-called data is being encrypted or not. And then of course, with one of the R&D labs from Lithuania expertise in blockchain, we have so-called 40 pages, long paper on all of this.
But the missing part was on which so-called blockchain. We want to have this data into integrity, verification and also very sensitive data to be stored on it. So we started with Commodore. I know a lot of people
does know them, they're super old, they have the Zekisnakro chain called pilot chain, so they approve of work, so that was something that we were interested in, but of course, scalability for proof work is much more challenging.
And also the speed of messaging would be completely different. As well for storing information data there, since proof work is not so easily scalable and also it takes a lot of advantages for depth specifically to create something that is
very well for use experience. The next one of course was, I think it was Dash as well, that Reach out to us as an network. Also, I think, Verge currency as well.
I also from BP has AA organization, there were some of the OGs from the privacy side as well. There were a couple of other chains, I guess also was some of the Ethereum based ZKE rollups.
as well. But then we got introduced also to Cosmos and then we started to analyze which of the networks have like privacy aspect and of course it was a second network. So we started to also think about like whether the signal network makes sense because I mean the first question was like
is it like proof work of stake? It was proof stake of course because it's based on cosmos and then the second thing was how the encryption works. Second network's like encryption is based on hardware so it's completely different
encryption when we compare with the SNARC methods or the Rzeker rollups because for the decay you always need a centralized party where this centralized party will always have the keys to your encrypted data but when there is like two recipients
and center part in all those two recipients of course will block from other recipients that information but for centralized one they'll still be available to to decrypt so and that that wasn't an option and also like hardware was
actually I would say the best way so far. Of course like intelligence and there's like a lot of fun about it but I would say that so far I think there's much more fun than actual researches and
actual or penetrating testing to hack it, you know, if it would be the case, I think Sigenaro wouldn't be existent anymore. So yeah, and yeah, it made sense because I mean the small contracts gave us a lot of
opportunities to build, you know, and yeah, that's why we chose also second network, I mean, and cosmos, yeah. Nice. I think most people here will agree that it's a wise choice, but
You mentioned just at the end here, the whole landscape is sort of changing and people are being skeptical of all these privacy protocols, secret network included. And I think that's obviously due to the regulatory landscape that's shifted
thing very rapidly with the tornado cache and yeah the US Treasury or this part of the Treasury sanctioning anyone using a app like tornado cache. So obviously a lot of people will ask questions about is this going to happen for secret network as well? It's going to happen with Altar eventually.
What's how do you guys like respond to this it must be something that is at least on your radar? It's pretty crazy, I think personally I I think like this action that was taken it was like kind of like maybe a remind
that having prices is really important. So that means people should be aware that I would say this is the last fight for actual privacy and human rights in general because my personal standing point is
view as individual, I would say that so far, like I would say maybe even 100% of all networks are using centralized solutions, that means centralized servers. That means, I mean, if
they really would like to kick us from a blockchain world, then all it takes is only one one simple service provider to change their policy and off-board you as a client. So that means validators nodes, depths that are hosted
they'll be just, it will be huge mess. So what does it mean? The network can be halted, the network can be congested. So that means that not a single party will be able to send any tokens. It will matter no, it will want one there if you're on cold storage or
If you are hot wallet, what? I mean, if change stops, it just stops. The only thing that centralized changes will be able to, so basically on central exchanges, you'll be able to kind of sell or do something about, you know. But in general, yeah, it's, I would say it's a very tricky, tricky situation in moment.
And if people, I would say they realize that it is so vulnerable. We put these all huge lines that we are decentralized and everything else, but I would say from my personal standing point and checking out with due diligence and every single
I mean, it is, yeah, it's a rough situation to be honest. Yeah, yeah, it seems almost radical to me. I mean, I guess a lot of people heard about the troll that started sending out
0.1 eth to all kinds of addresses, typically influencers and whatnot, which basically meant that all those addresses got blacklisted in the US. And this is everyone from Kimi Fallon to Eminem, I believe also to all kinds
of people who, the talent, of course, where we know the wallet address to these people. ENS obviously makes that easier, more easy than ever. So that's just insane. I mean, what are you going to do as a regulator? Are you going to blacklist and sanction all these people?
I don't think so. So it seems like a very radical step to be honest. Yeah, I just want to continue like a more tonnego, tonnego cash is that it just proven that the price is at risk, but very huge risk, but more.
Fortunately, I would say financial independency from all these systems. Because if you control the system and I mean once the CBDC is going to roll out, I mean, there you go. Big brother watching over every single thing.
You will not be able to pay in cash. Forget about it. Every little small thing that you even pay or sell, it will be always there to see. And how people will be escaping this.
I would say it's a war that maybe we have a small chance, but we still have a chance. But in general, yeah, it's kind of sad to see that
We are actually very vulnerable from this standing point. And as well, like sending all those transactions to these guys, I mean, it's just, it was a, it was a trouble move that's wheel backfire something definitely and it will
be another reason why cryptocurrencies everything also will be needed to regulate and follow and give permissions. And I think why exactly now also Ethereum is going for proof of work to proof of stake because
work, I would say is much more decentralized than proof of stake from like server side, you know. So that means I mean, and also like another aspect that I thought about days when I spoke about my friends and also parents.
the energy prices are skyrocketing. It is 100% even 10 times more to pay now the energy price. What does it mean in Europe for example for energy prices? I mean majority of like I would
say improve work, it will be very costly to run it if the prices and go up so much. So for token I mean as a reward. So yeah I mean it's a very interesting time to be honest why exactly now I mean of course it was
well very needed and it was spoken about like how many years, pretty long, right? So, but the timing that is my personal question, why did it mean? I mean, it is super interesting because the price peak of any
it will be in September only. So because for example my parents gonna pay like 104% more, so from beginning of September for energy. Yeah, it is
a bit strange the timing as you say. There must be some theories out there. I haven't educated myself on this but it is crazy times for sure and they have threatened to do something like this for a long time as you say. So it shouldn't come much as a surprise and I guess the
The first thing we can do at this point is to respond with better technology, more privacy-based technologies. What I'd like to say, typically, when people ask in general, why is blockchain important, why is web 3 different and all that kind of stuff, I always like
to say like, okay, right now we have an option. Either we're building a world where more and more things get centralized because we have typically a handful of tech companies that just harvest everyone for data and they will just become more and more powerful. And if it's not these five, six big tech companies, it would be the government
issuing CBCs as you mentioned or some other centralized institution that can watch over us. So that's one option. Another option is to have wallets all of us in our computers or phones or whatever where you store your own keys, your own bank and your own
everything yourself like you own your data, your crypto, whatever you hold in your wallet. And that just seems to me like a much more empowering and bright future if you ask me. But it does require the rails for this and being able to communicate and translate
and what not in a private manner instead of everyone watching over you. Yeah, I mean, I would say that we like for example for alter we have actually start to disemploy ourselves as well.
because we want to have the service always there. So we are kind of really rapidly moving away from like everybody's dependence and the second thing is, I mean, at the end of the day like a second network we are using for verification
and storing, I mean, a price wouldn't like an impact this, but I would say like the public part of Sikindet or Goelk cannot still run, I mean, it's more contract stuff, but maybe the so-called token side would be something that would be stopped. But who knows, I mean, I'm not like
on top of the ruling chain in the world so we can just guess, you know. I would see like the secret breach, yeah of course I think that is something that could be vulnerability but I mean
It's just a guess. I mean, it's not something that I have like facts or something like that. It's a pure guess. But for all the stand-up, I mean, it's really utilizing the whole G-more. So that's like our interest to always have been.
Perhaps talk more about the like you mentioned your decentralizing yourself like let's play out a scenario where the US Treasury sanctions alter, you know exactly like they did with tomato cash, going after you, you know the team and all that, like how
How will the altar make sure that the protocol continues to run? The services continue to run like people who are using altar will discontinue on interpreters. I would say don't let them know where are your bare metal servers.
I mean, that's the security. You can just rely on at the moment. And of course, what we want to do in the future is that we could implement that they so-called in a message
storage and everything else is being run on very simple and nodes. So I don't know, I was very far, for example, I mean it's a good way. I know that Akash has a nice partnership with another network that has like thousands of
nodes of small power and I would say that is the best decentralization because I mean what you need is actually that almost everybody can spin up something and connect to the network right that is from homes I mean and I would say that is the best one decentralization mode
for every chain, but I mean majority of the networks are requiring some like huge Working power and the majority of them are using certain place servers like as a cloud-based services, so that means I mean of course it's a bit cheaper and so forth, but
I think somebody from the chain side, from Cosmos also, we should start thinking about how we can decentralize it more and use what we got on hand so people can connect much more and be no there.
So that's the pure decentralization, and all that you're giving to the people itself to run it, instead of having huge servers that you need to build on your site at home, for example, maintain it, have extensive knowledge of what they're up to, I mean, those
other things. And I hope that somebody will create a web tree-based hardware node that is easy to buy, easy to get, easy to run, and also that is compatible.
with majority of the networks. So I think that's like a huge business. Yeah. Awesome. Just for I can see more people are joining in, which is great. Oscars you're doing a great job clearly because more people are showing interest. And for those of you who are listening
You can raise your hand and I'd take note of it if you have any questions which I will start opening up for if anyone has questions soon enough. But we speak about decentralization, how robust, basically alter and secret and
the entire cosmos ecosystem is, to sanctions like this. Perhaps talk to us a bit about the token. We spoke together now for almost 40 minutes and you haven't once mentioned the outer token, which is great by the way, that's a great sign for me at least,
Sometimes when I talk to people the first thing and the last thing they will talk about is they're talking trying to sell that to me. So to me that's a great sign, but I think Alter will also tie into the the decentralization efforts that you guys are trying to do and then you know being able to stake anyone can participate etc etc.
So perhaps talk to us a bit more about that. Yeah, thanks. So basically, all the token is a, we want to have it as a product token plus us for the governance as well, but my majority it will be for product. We want to have
have product tied to the services. First of all, we have already for the subscription that you can buy with token on the improvement side that we're going to do is add a lot of premium features, including the privacy file storage that people are going to be able to use.
And another thing that we are working very closely, I cannot leak that off yet, but it is connected to all the token improvements and also usability. So basically we're going to be moving to a much more larger scale of availability of the token itself.
because we are a communication platform. So that means we need to be out there, we need to showcase it, and we need to have users availability to quickly immediately get token. At the moment, like, SignalTor doesn't have the breach. So we cannot place on like all those taxes. Plus we have a lot
all liquidity on both the Dex's and our own second network but the great shades of and polymers are launching so that's good but let's see how it goes I mean I think the liquidity is always a big issue for every Dex you know in the bearish market
And another thing we're going to be offering with our partners, completely new service together with all to enterprise. So we're going to be offering the infrastructure, our that we have built for privacy and encryption of data. And second, we'll be supporting every Web 3 project.
team in layer one to de-centize their networks and also to offer consultations for free to plan the website as well to outline what are the possibilities for scale built as well and another thing will be offering bare metal servers with our parts
So also we're going to be a different plugging in a lot of bare mental service over to a cache because also I think we need the central bit of the providers there so a cache doing so far great work there but I think we need majority more players and
And what we need now is actually professionals that are helping teams and networks to adopt this real decentralization. So that means that validators also project will be able to come to us and speak about how we can implement improvements and also to get
better and long-term based experimental servers that are for their needs needed. But also another thing is there will be no field payments. So that means like now a majority of everything like it's field payments
with legal entities, everything else. And of course, most of the cards with the card, they exactly know what people are spending and super easy to identify, like which of the companies they need to target when it comes to business operations. And I think it is well very needed and
And we need to get back to the, again, to full the mental and the fundamentals of decentralization from the infrastructure perspective. We have this small concept, we have blockchain, but where it is being hosted now, it's not decentralized. We can also be launching
very soon a tool that we're going to be gathering all each network of cosmos and seeing where all the where the validators were the nodes being hosted the center knows well everything else. So we can see in statistics like how can it do it.
Yeah, and it's like our our kind of mission and everything will be paid in all the tokens well for the bare metal servers. Awesome. And if I understand correctly, it's only on CNS swap that it's possible to get your hands on alter. Is that correct?
So you want to use buttons up to bits and icon. But yeah, we have major plans for moving.
and getting the availability of token as well liquidity. And of course, with all these new services being connected to token, I mean, it's much more utility than much worse to the networks that have, except like the gas itself, you know.
Because we want to kind of bring the more users to see and also obtain and definitely to use our free services for decentralizing the networks and applications. Yeah, so anyone out there who
interested, you know, go get your hands on alter, try to participate in the network, stake, delegate, validate perhaps if you want to spin up your own server, you know, the more the merrier basically to decentralize that work. You mentioned something that I
forgot to ask in the beginning actually because a lot of people I think when they consider chats messaging and sharing files it's almost always a consumer product you know me sending someone to you in a chat whatever but you are also working on enterprise solutions is that correct?
Yeah, so we want to become the bridge of far away to the tree We have already been in pilots so that means We have one more that four projects so far Currently we're in the speaks of for two another projects with pilots
let's utilize the Altar's infrastructure and also encryption method. And we want to move and prove that I mean data privacy and communications and file exchange and everything else is super well needed in the market to give the companies also
the centralization of opportunity and more importantly data privacy. I mean because majority of the breaches like after the hacker have breached everything and have gotten the data. I mean it's but once they got the data I mean it's not even crypted. So in our approach again
like it's not like a centralized encryption side so it's purely every single user that is using it as their own encryption key private but it's not stored on the so-called client side or or or or altar side so that means that the hacker would need every single user's
encryption key to even all of the data. So that's pretty interesting that the majority of the companies are that we're pitching to are very well interested because then it means that even even the data is being hacked it's not being accessible so and that's the very
that you want to prevent these things because I mean you cannot prevent the hack like 100% what you need to do is that we feel being hacked like they cannot do anything with the date itself so and that's all decreased interest of course for hacking anything
Nice. Before leaving you and you have well-deserved some rest, it's pushing 11 pm where you are based according to my calculation. Oh, I need to attend a lot of things. Wow. Well, you deserve
beer or something my man because whatever flows your boat because that's a pretty late evening for you then. But before I let you go is there anything that you would like the community to know about Alter anything we should be aware of? Obviously go follow you on Twitter and Discord and all your different
channels, but anything that you want us to leave us with today. I would say what I can ask is just to support Alter, speak about it, become a user because State Practice is coming to second network, so you don't need to pay anything and use your skills.
take secret and it will also come to a lot of other networks and we're going to be working on the next one from on a cache network as well. So basically want to provide free service for yourself, for your family, for your friends as well, for your communities,
Because for us it is less easy to market to get outside the world because I mean we are not deviant. We are not immediate profit taker because our success only grows within time.
that means any support or shoutout is appreciated from our side because it is super easy to hype the stuff because incentivize tokens at the start with high APRs and everything else.
application, actually using cryptography, actually having a huge solution for real-life problems that we want to bring to the wall as well. Yeah, and that's all. Thank you. Yeah. What you guys are doing is
is important and you're doing a great job so we'll make sure to share far and wide so more people are at least aware of alter and know that this is an option. So you guys deserve you guys you deserve all the
spot in the light that you can have, I think. So Oscars, we are approaching 11 PM and you got a lot of things to do, as you say. But thank you so much for joining. Thank you so much for all the work you guys are doing at Ulcer. Thank you so much for bringing me here and it was
great speaking with you and if somebody from the listeners have questions I mean happy to answer as well now so yeah I think people are almost being too too quiet and too private of this space but they can always
is if they have any questions that they thought about after the space they can always edit in the Twitter thread where we scheduled the space which I always encourage people to do if anything comes up. So we'll make sure to keep people informed in there. Awesome. Great. Thank you so much.
much again and it was really great speaking on your platform and the defense really invited me again I would have it to speak after a month because we have a lot of things going on that we can speak about but actually today we also launched a partnership from Super Oracle that will
be providing us Oracle for state access because so far we don't have any tool to understand how we can track how many users from state access are possible to get from different other networks. This is why people need to follow you on Twitter, etc. because you
posted about that already. But yeah, Oscar is fantastic to have you on. I'm sure this is not going to be the last time that we hear from you. So keep up the good work and stay safe until next time. Thank you. I'm really going to take care of it. Bye bye. Ciao.