Hello everyone and welcome to the club. I can see deal is with us now. I will accept your request to speak. Sorry about the delay everyone, but the better late than never. I did it. You should be able to speak now.
I can see you on the mute data. So I think if you unmute yourself, you should be coming through. Awesome. I think we're good now. Appreciate it. Yeah, we can hear you. Beautiful. All right.
Welcome to the club beetle. Thanks a lot man. Yeah, it's a good time to be here. We're celebrating Memorial Day so I'm good to get some people out and chat about upcoming things with Archway. Definitely. It's busy today.
days for you guys. I mean you have a lot of things going on and a lot of things coming out but we'll talk about that in a minute I'm sure. Absolutely man it's been intense. Alright then but yeah so I can see people dialing in
and tuning in to the space. So welcome everyone to the Cosmos Club where we talk all things Cosmos. We tweet about what's going on in the Cosmos ecosystem and then we invite interesting, fascinating, hardworking builders like Dital from Archway coming on spaces like these. Welcome Dital to the Club.
Thanks a man. This is exciting. Appreciate you having us. So before we dive straight into archway and what you guys are building and what's coming out from you guys soon enough, we like to keep it a little bit personal at least in the beginning because I think a lot of people come from
all backgrounds in the crypto and blockchain and Cosmos. So perhaps you can tell us a short, brief story of how you ended up working on Archway. No, awesome. I appreciate it. Yeah, no, we all have kind of our unique journeys in the crypto
and how it fell on the rabbit hole. I'm no different. I actually found out about crypto when I was living in Costa Rica. I was volunteering on a small island in Costa Rica that was pretty rural island that was pretty poor. It was just a local fishing village.
And my wife and I were volunteering to help with diverse thinking about the people and thinking about how people in the island could think about other ways of generating income diversifying their income. And we helped them get like an ecotourism collective together to help small businesses
income and actually during that time I started going down a personal finance rabbit hole and started learning about equities and then I learned about kind of the emerging world of blockchain and this was like late 2016 early 2017 and then pretty much from there on out I've been working in the space full time for the past six years now.
beautiful. Did you take the Ethereum pill back in 16 and 17 like many other people did back then or how did you initially get into crypto? Yeah definitely. I think the idea of what was capable was smart contracts and being able to automate a lot of the like processes
that we do so manually. And the idea of radical transparency and everything immutable on the blockchain was really powerful for me. So definitely the concept of the Ethereum and just smart contract platforms in general have been kind of opened up my eyes and
And then yeah, I ended up working in the Ethereum space and working on the first protocol that launched NFTs natively as tickets. And also one of the first lending protocols in Ethereum. But I've definitely a cosmos pill that had been a cosmonaut for the past four years now.
And how did you end up sort of getting the costumes peeled and swallowed? Because I think it's funny to hear your story because I have a little bit of a similar history for myself getting into Cosmos. I also worked on the money market basically, lending and borrowing.
build on a theorem and just I've told this story many times but basically I felt very much in the Ethereum ecosystem. I didn't like the sort of vibe that I was getting there. It was a sort of a zero sum game. In this corner you got all the taxes that is fighting for trading volume and this corner
you got all the lending markets that is fighting for liquidity and you know it's sort of a win-it-takes-all, see or some game. But when I first heard about Cosmos and started sort of interacting with the Cosmos ecosystem, it was a whole different world. It was very much you know, let's build a bigger ecosystem, a bigger cave
you know, any new app chain or anything deployed on Cosmos with Cosmos Tech just is a benefit to the entire ecosystem. So very much a different vibe. I was feeling at least personally. I got into Cosmos myself, but please, how did you get into Cosmos from Ethereum?
Yeah, no, I definitely agree with that right. And the idea that everyone can have their own chain or everyone can build and there's native interoperability and it's not all zero sum. Like you said, I definitely align with that. And Cosmos is very decentralized, maybe almost two of fault at times, but it's true to its ethos.
I'm a big fan of that. Actually, I was very involved in a project Sentinel and I helped kind of take over and lead that project and lead it from a ERC 20 a Ethereum based protocol to its own sovereign, Cosmos chain and was one of the earlier chains that was IBC enabled.
shortly after IBC went live. So that was kind of a big transition. I knew that that the Cosmos Tech stack and being able to have independent, independent consensus and the community to be able
to decide on kind of the future of the protocol was a far better design, especially for that application. So I was, you know, I've been interested in Cosmos since like late 2017 and I knew people that were involved in the original Cosmos fundraise in the middle of 2017. But yeah,
really in 2019 is when I started digging in a lot deeper and then helped with Sentinel making the transition. So that was pretty exciting and then I was at Sentinel for a couple of years and then for a year I was leading out ecosystem and growth and partnerships as well as some of the marketing efforts at SAE.
And that went really well and we built out a pretty big ecosystem at say and then I got the opportunity to join the really impressive team at Fire Labs and kind of never look back. So it's been, it's only been less than two months, but it's been really exciting and I find, I think I found a home of the place where I'm excited to
contribute and see archway really you know have a long term success i think it's gonna be important blockchain for years to come beautiful and i think that's a great segue to talk about archway and talk about what you guys are building over there because i mean you guys are killing it in the
If you ask us, but we're super excited to see how you guys are going to launch and how you go about the coming weeks, I guess. But the talk to us about archway, talk to us as if we didn't know about it, if we are uninitiated, as we like to say. And this is the first time we hear about archway.
Awesome. Well, no, I mean, I completely agree with you right of this idea of zero sum and how things can become doggy dog. And also, I think that it's not only just applications, but I also think it's layer ones in general. I think there's this whole concept of the fat protocol thesis and that all the value that's going
to be built into an ecosystem should go right back to the layer one and all you need to do is buy and hold the layer one token and you're going to make it. And I think that that also kind of becomes a very kind of like a scarcity mindset kind of thinking and also leads to short term thinking.
And that's kind of the exact opposite of what archway is and that also the inspiration for why archway was created. So archway is a layer one blockchain, but unlike Ethereum where all the value that's getting created on the ecosystem goes back exclusively to the layer one. The idea is that the value that's created on the ecosystem
system by the contributors that are bringing that value is able to get captured more by those contributors. So the DApps that bring users and bring liquidity and bring activity on chain, those DApps see a much greater rise in the uptick and in the value that they create.
developers that are creating interesting smart contracts that enable different types of infrastructure to work are able to capitalize on the value and the important technology that they're building. So Griffin is the CEO of Fire Labs, which is the development company that's building some of the
some of the core aspects of the archery protocol and Griffin worked at Tendermitt and prior to working at Tendermitt he worked at Consensus and through those that don't know Consensus is probably the biggest private organization that has helped the rise of the Ethereum ecosystem and has built a lot of cool and kind of
important tooling and infrastructure in products within the Ethereum ecosystem, including MetaMask. When Griffin was at consensus, he noticed exactly what you were talking about. This idea that it became kind of doggy dog and it wasn't like this idea of growing in greater pie.
So the developers that built really interesting and great applications were not seeing kind of the up the value and the upside of all that they were creating. And so Gryffin thought that there's a better way to design a blockchain that is more long term minded and that creates sustainable
economies so that there's you know all these chains that you get you get hyped and get all kind of pumped up and they kind of have this like single cycle mentality and how do we pump it up and get really big and then there's kind of this wash out and kind of like you know not sustainable like
long-term thinking. Griffin had the vision for something completely the opposite and that was the inspiration for Archway and that's exactly what we're launching now. And I want to hold in on the value creation because I think this is something that has been underappreciated for a long time and just for the audience here, May Matches
You know compound, AVE, Uniswap, all the big taps that are built on Ethereum. They all obviously use the Ethereum network, gas fees, network fees are paid in ETH. So the value or cruel goes to the Ethereum network. Imagine if Uniswap, AVE, etc. could have that value
value of cruel to themselves, to their own chain or whatever they launch. This will be great, I think, for their teams. Not so great for Ethereum Stakers, but for the team that is building the depth, Aave, Compound, whatever, it will be a pretty fantastic revenue
stream. I could imagine. And this is not just hypothetical. This is exactly what's happening with D of IDX. And I'm sure many other teams are considering moving from Ethereum to Cosmos and building their own Appchain for this exact reason. But now comes in archway where you don't have to deploy your own Appchain, that expensive, tedious, all that. You can build it on
on archway and still capture value. Is that correct me on the stout title or would you like to add to that sort of high level understanding of archway? Yeah, no, that's definitely right at the high level. And what is empowered is actually at the chain level, at the protocol level. So
This isn't just an idea, oh, like value, you know, creators capture greater value. It's actually designed and implemented as modules built into the blockchain. So you're able to customize your smart contracts to enable fees or premiums and you can customize the
the terms and the size and the frequency of those premiums so that when people interact with your protocol and with your smart contract, they're able to generate revenues. And that only is exclusively from the smart contract, but you can also earn
A portion of the gas fees goes back to the smart contract employers as well as a portion of the inflation the validator rewards so There is it's thinking more long term about how to align the incentives of builders that are grading great apps and
And emerging ecosystem so that the apps are able to participate in the upside and also what that makes is interesting too is then not every application that builds needs to generate and create their own governance token and do all that. They can they can build and just focus on the application themselves and not focus on the economic model of a token.
and are able to earn arch tokens by generating activity on chain. So it's a much more like long-term thinking model. And even the actual tokenomics of the arch token as well is more long-term thinking. So it's a lower inflation rate.
and more sustainable models so that it doesn't like, you know, there's not this kind of hyperinflation where there's crazy APRs and everyone, you know, apes in and then when the hype runs out, there's like this crazy inflation without kind of like the backing of it. So I think
Everything that's been designed in the Archway Protocol is thinking more long-term than it is just about the next type cycle. Beautiful. Talk to us about the lack of, or at least the no need for token when building on Archway, because I think that's also something that I really want to get in front of the bus. A lot of people
When they want to build a blockchain application at app, you know entering web 3 and all that kind of stuff, you know, they get super excited, you know, they don't need to create a sign-up page and log in with Facebook, log in with Google, you just, you know, connect your wallet off you go. But then these teams
and I've been on one of them. They all of a sudden say, "Oh, but we need a token. Oh, and we need this and that. We need to think about economics. We need to think about this. We need to think about that." And then the focus is just completely diverts into something else, instead of building the product, the platform that you set out to build in the first place. So this is a different, with Archway#
Yeah, I mean the teams that are build an application have full autonomy to launch a token if they so desire, but it's not you know a lot of teams to your point launch a token in spite of the fact that they're building an application and they're doing it because they needed as a method for
revenue generation and for ability to like raise capital. But they're not doing it because they really want to launch a token or because it even really makes sense. Canatively need a token in their application, but nor because it's an easy capital bootstrapping mechanism or it's an easy way to kind of
generate monetization aspect within their protocol. But if you're building a great protocol and you're generating activity on chain, then that's value that you're creating. And as long as there's mechanisms to be able to capture that value, then you don't have, you're not painted into a corner and you
force to launch a token. So that's the kind of mindset that we went into the design thinking for the R2A protocol is that there are methods to be able to build into the blockchain itself, the activity that you're generating on chain, having value and then capturing that value. So then if you build an AMM or you build a
centralized identity protocol, or you build a web-to business that really scales with being able to be on chain. You're not forced to launch a token because the activity that you build and the users that you bring, that activity can be monetized on chain and distributed back to the protocol.
Right on right on. Talk to us a bit about the how you've come to come so far come to this point basically because I know this is not something that you just pulling out of your behind just now. This is something that has been built over quite a
up here at the time right by now. So yeah, talk to us about perhaps the journey to where you are now and then the coming weeks because I know you have a lot of things being announced in the coming days and weeks.
Yeah, no, absolutely. It's exciting times. Yeah, I'll definitely drop some alpha. We, um, so how did Archway get to this point? Well, it really, like I said, started with Griffin digging deeper on kind of what were some of the flaws and things that he saw as less than ideal with the theorem. And he, like,
yourself and myself was inspired by the idea of Ethereum and open permissionless networks and the ability to auto execute contracts and be able to do things more sovereignly online and more independently without third parties. And that was all really cool. But then he saw a lot of the short
coming of people just holding and buying a bunch of eith and then making a lot of money off of it, but then no longer contributing to the development of the protocol or the development of applications in the ecosystem. And that was what inspired him to think about what archway could be. And then Griffin started working
a tenderment and he was an early one of the earliest members at Tendermitt, which is the core, one of the core organizations across kind of the distributed ecosystem and distributed companies within the greater cosmos. But Tendermitt was obviously instrumental in establishing Tendermitt consensus and building out some
of the core Cosmos SDK and some of the initial tech stack for the entire broader Cosmos ecosystem. And with that, some of the biggest brains and most important developers across the Cosmos were there early stages at Tendermint. And so when
Gryphon was at 10-term and he saw the potential of Cosmos and the native interoperability and the ability to customize your own blockchain. It kind of became a no-brainer that this is the opportunity to build the layer one that is long-term-minded, has sustainable economics and brings value back to
The developers and so Gryphin was also really smart and when he created fire labs there was a whole contingency of developers that came with him from tendermit to fire labs so another thing that makes archway really unique is that the company fire labs has a really big and impressive developer to
team of almost 20 people and a lot of them are like some of the most OGs with the Cosmos tech stack and with Cosmos smart contracts and understanding native interoperability and archways also going to implement.
I can't talk now. It's going to have native like relayers, but a lot also have interchange queries and interchange accounts. So the layer one at Archway will be a perfect layer one to be able to deploy anything and get access to liquidity in the user base across all of Cosmos.
But also, it's a great place to launch because you have such strong tech backing and such hands-on support when you bring your product to market with the support of the Fire Labs development team. How long has Archway been built on?
So to say how long has the working progress been because I think it's been built from for quite some time and with a lot of key components really well thought out, which I think this talk also exemplifies. But it's been built is it two years has been under
way or it's been quite a time. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, just over two years that the protocol has went from ideation to where it is today. So to your point, this has been a longer time development and it's been thought about very deeply and thoroughly. There have been other protocols that have
thought about how to reward developers by that at a high level and haven't been able to figure out some of the technical challenges that have been overcome at our choice. So the actual design and technical implementation of the modules, we're calling them the value capture modules,
the modules to be able to customize gas fees and also customize your smart contract premiums are very technically complex and to be able to execute those took a long time and it's not just the
modules themselves, but how they function and how they're executed. So for example, I'm running a stablecoin, and then that stablecoin has smart contract connected to it, and that stablecoin is running through an AMM, and then I put that stablecoin up as liquidity to AMM.
and I get a LP token and then I'm staking that LP token. That's multiple steps of smart contracts that are interacted with and the design of the archway protocol is such that every smart contract that's interacted with is able to earn the smart contract premiums.
So to be able to have all of the different step functions and smart contracts interacted with benefit is actually a pretty technically complex problem that's been solved. So it's it's and you guys can dig deeper into the technical papers. They're all on the web.
website. Archeway.io. And if you go to the bottom, all of the papers are there. But it's a pretty impressive problem that was solved. And that's why it's been a couple of years in the making. And also because Archeway is thinking about things in a longer term perspective and not rushing to get to market.
it or trying to time like a bull market. It's more about this is a protocol we want to develop so that we can kind of usher in the next level of talent into Web 3 where there's a place that they can easily deploy and access ongoing revenue.
I want to just highlight you just mention it in brief or in passing almost about the website. So anyone who hasn't checked out archways website or all the different material will come out. It's really well done. It's so
easy on the eye. It's really beautiful. I don't know. The design that you have is, the design team is absolutely world class, if you ask me. You have economic papers, you got technical papers. It's just so well documented and transparent. What comes out of Archeway, which someone like myself really enjoys.
anyone who hasn't checked that out, go on archway.io immediately. I want to ask you about you just mentioned also how you there's other chains and other ecosystems, other projects that are being developed focused. One project that keeps popping up and I can see also
by community members asking about how you compare yourself to a specifically no land. And I think no land is obviously not live yet or anything so we don't know exactly how it's going to be but they have very similar sort of value proposition like having contributors being rewarded for their, you know, in
know the tokens and all that kind of stuff. So how do you guys see yourself compared to Gnolang from what we know about Gnolang? Because also the interesting thing here is that you got Griffin on your side who is very much OG and an OG team. Same you can say the same thing about Gnolang. They got
Jake one, you know, all these guys working on that. So yeah, how do you guys compare yourself to to archway? Sorry, or to Knolland of course. Yeah. Well, I'd have to look a little bit deeper on the technical design of Knolland as far as what they're promising for contributor
value capture and how that is designed. You know, I think if anything, if this is setting up, actually setting up kind of a precedent for more chains to think more holistically about developers and setting kind of a new standard in the industry.
For bringing value back to developers then I think we've then archway is kind of made of really positive impact Unfortunately, I think you know, we've seen more developers come to web 3 but in general it still seems like a very much siloed thing like either you're in crypto or you're not
and a lot of traditional businesses have not actually been able to develop and build on chain in any type of scale. If you remember back in 2017, during the ICO boom, there was a bunch of companies that changed the name of their public company to put the word blockchain in it in 2017-2018.
team to ride the hype chain and that was obnoxious, but they actually didn't do anything with blockchain. Right? And now it's five years later. And we still haven't seen that many businesses really do things on chain. And, you know,
you're not actually capturing value at the application layer. And that's where I think Archway does a great job. I'd have to look at exactly the kind of design for a Gino Land. To I'm sure there's definitely differentiations. And I'd have to kind of parse those apart to get a better understanding of exactly
what they're looking to do to bring value to contributors and also what they define as contributors and how they're incentivized. That's fair. I mean, there's a lot of unknowns with the Knolland. It was just to get your take because I can see a lot of people in the community are quite interesting, interested in sort of seeing their computers.
And I hope granola and succeeds, you know like some people might have different thoughts about You know different players or maybe even jacquon specifically I you know regardless of him as an individual I hope that the chain is actually like a positive chain in a gains traction and that there's good applications
So I definitely have only, you know, well wishes for Ginolein, but I hope that if it's claiming to do right by contributors and developers, then it actually holds up to the promises is what I would hope. Yeah, definitely. Well, that's a
back to to Archway, just wanted to bring that question up front. Otherwise I'll hear from the wonderful Twitter community afterwards, and I didn't ask the right questions from the community. But let's talk about the coming weeks. You guys have a lot of things coming out. I mentioned also
So earlier, one thing that I think a lot of people are keen on hearing more about is the arch token coming out of the token sale, coming June 15th, I remember. Talk to us about the token sale or any other things you want to highlight in the coming weeks.
Yeah, no, it's exciting. So I do have to make distinction. I'm leading ecosystem and growth at fire labs, the development company building on archway. And we are, you know, the development company and contributor to the protocol, but we are not controlling the arch token.
or in charge of that, that would be the Archway Foundation. And so I don't have as much control over, you know, I don't have control over kind of the Archway Foundation, but the news did come out about the public sale, which I'm really excited about. I think that that's a really big
And I think that's a great way to get into the world.
I had heard there were over 30 plus thousand applications and I'm assuming there's actually a lot more because that was last week of registrants that want to get access to the art token via coin list. And to be able to do so, the registrants are going to need to create their own Adam Wall
and have their own Adam address. So everyone that is coming from any ecosystem is going to need to get familiar with Cosmospace wallet, whether that's Leap or Kepler or Cosmos Station or coin 98 or several others, Archie X wallet.
But they're going to need to create their own wallet and create their own address. And so that's awesome because it's going to bring tens of thousands of users to the cosmos and getting native natively acquainted with the infrastructure and the tech stack that we're also accustomed to. And also, I think that
There have been a lot of layer ones that have launched in the past six to 12 months that have had really, really high valuations. After all, it's in Sui, come to mind, but even some of the Cosmos ecosystem that I think makes it really hard
for again that kind of long term mindset is sustainable thinking because you're like pumping up things at a really high valuation early on and then setting expectations really high. Whereas I think our choice is doing the opposite again. It's thinking about long term sustainability and I think that
The valuation seems very attractive, especially compared to other layer ones that have big and robust ecosystems like Archway does. So I think that this is a really unique opportunity for a lot of people to get their hands on arch tokens and be able to participate in governance.
and be a, you know, early contributor to the archway ecosystem via the Cornless sale. And then the Cornless sale, like you said, is June 19th or 15th, I mean. And then I'm not within a month, the archway block
chain is going to go a lot. So I'm really stoked. So we have those two big events and then there's an ongoing fundraising right now at Fire Labs. So that's also a big opportunity and there's going to be, you're going to be hearing some more noise and excitement around that to see kind of ecosystem continue to grow and some
Backers that are getting behind archway and supporting us was supporting five labs for the years to come and There's you know some other announcements around Key development is with the protocol that will be coming in the coming weeks as well So yeah, there's a
crap, 10 of work on my plate. It's been really fun, but we're definitely full speed ahead right now. It's exciting. Science, man. So June 15th is the public sale of the arch token. And then I guess July 15th is when the main net goes live. Is that correctly understood?
Yeah, the main date has not been officially announced, but yeah, expect is coming very soon. You said a month from now, but yeah, I guess around that timeframe. Yeah, awesome. I want to have here
towards the end of the space just to allow ourselves a bit to dream, to sort of go beyond what is in the next coming weeks or months, but sort of look beyond that because I think archway is building something unique. I have
never heard anything near what you guys are aiming for. I think Knolland is on the path towards that, but that's a lot of unknowns there, as I also mentioned earlier. So if we allow ourselves to
How would you see Archway or how would you hope Archway evolves in the years to come? Will it be like a one stop shop for any developer not necessarily blockchain developers but any developer to
to build a depth, whether they want to launch a token or not. Is that sort of the aim here? Or how would you, if you look, you know, 10 years from now and looking back at what Archway had become? What will be a success in your eyes?
I love this question. That's great. Well, I would say look at it in a couple of different time frames. In the immediate time frame, the next one, two years, I would think that archway can become a place for the whole cosmos ecosystem to flourish.
And that would be done via the ability for applications to easily natively create and deploy applications on archway and get access to greater cosmos. So if archway is a blockchain that makes it stupid simple to be able to
and build, cause more contracts and launch applications to get access to all the IBC chains and access to the broader cosmos. Then our choice succeeding and helping kind of open the door for applications and developers to come in. And especially with the like I mentioned earlier, the kind of top
developer development team at Fire Labs to be able to provide a lot of technical support and onboarding and make it for a seamless onboarding process to be able to get your application up in live. That is going to be a key contribution from Archway to the greater cosmos.
I love this idea of dreaming and what does it look like 10 years from now. I think that's where in 10 years from now, either blockchains will be a huge part of the future that we're living in and not just like a niche web 3 community that gets excited about when Pepecoin goes
But more when blockchains are being used for our insurance for our car or for interactions that you know purchasing things at the retail store or for legal contracts between our
and our businesses or in myriads in different ways that are going to interact with our lives on a daily basis. Our choice can be the place with that long-term vision and sustainable economics where small and medium-sized businesses can bring aspects of their business on chain. And if that's able to happen and
The economic incentives align so that their activity that they bring on chain is getting brought back to them and not only back to Archway and the arch token, but to the developer ecosystem, then Archway have had a huge impact on
The future of technology and the future of how we interact as participants in a global world of commerce. So the implications are massive, but really it starts with providing a seamless and positive experience for developers to be able to create and deploy applications with
within the cosmos. Right on, man. Well said. Well said. Deedle, is there anything we left out today? Is there anything you want to leave the community with today? I mean, there's so many, so many good nuggets here. But yeah, anything we left out, basically. Well, I would say if you haven't
I appreciate giving a follow because you'll be hearing more updates from me on Twitter about archway, but also make sure to follow the archway HQ account. Tons coming up and then get involved join the discord. The discord link is in the archway Twitter handle and there's a ton coming up. There's going to be a lot of opportunities for people that want to get
that involved with the protocol and early contributors. You know, it's still early days. We haven't even launched the blockchain. So get involved in the community. There's huge kind of ways to generate alpha and get access to a lot of the benefits that early contributors are going to be able to participate.
I'm even seeing some of the OGs in the community here in the space right now. I want to give a shout out to Wendy. She's been a rock star. People are building an incredible NFT marketplace. We had RCHX wallet which is building a sick wallet. Native for RCHWAY. We got AstroVault building a really cool AMM.
So it's really cool to see this kind of like already growing in emerging ecosystem and it's only going to continue to get bigger. So we'd love to have you guys involved. So yeah, I definitely recommend just following our Twitter account getting involved in Discord and you're going to see activities for the broader community coming up in the coming
weeks. Perfect. We'll make sure to follow you guys closely and amplify any announcements that you come up with. That's for sure. Tito, thank you so much for coming on today. This has been wonderful. I'm very informative. So all the best to you and the rest of the team at the Archway and Fire Labs.
- Awesome, thanks so much for having me on Cosmos Club.
Definitely see you guys soon. Ciao. See you.