Everyone, we will be with you just in a sec. I can see Fraser and many other people are tuning in. Fraser, I just invited you as a speaker, so I believe you are able to. I can see you muted down. Yes, hello. How are you doing? Awesome. Great. Great. Great chat.
you back man? It's good to be back. We've been busy but it's nice to start speaking about what we've been up to and there's a few more things to come in the next couple of months. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the last one like maybe for this quarter or so let's see. Yeah nothing is static. We're always moving
crypto. Well especially when it's such a good time to build like yeah I've seen the couple of tweets today saying one of the best things about now is finding finding good people who yeah just who are suddenly available for better off or worse so yeah it's a good time to be building if not if not
else maybe maybe the other good thing is being wrapped up warm. Yeah it feels almost like an eternity that we since we last spoke by so many a few months.
Yeah, let me check. Actually have a log of this. So I should be able to pull that out. That was in one sec. And late July 27th of July. It honestly feels like February. I know.
Holy shit, yeah, no I didn't. Wow. It's crazy what's happened since to be honest. I don't know. I don't think anyone would have seen that coming. Certainly I didn't. No, no. It's what was really interesting was a couple of weeks ago myself and Jarvis
it I see a phone or just trying and like it was, you know, it was a month ago because it was before like FTX and all that drama and stuff. And we're just like, oh, it feels like everyone's kind of like everything's getting, everyone's kind of getting used to stuff. Like it's not great, but everyone's kind of started
to get used to where things are. And then FGX happened the next week of like, fuck, it's another one. And we're like, we thought we were done. Yeah. And who knows? Maybe this is not the last door I'm going to fall. People are talking about Gemini. I think it's Gemini, right?
that was it? Oh, it was it is it is it Genesis? Genesis, yeah, yeah, Genesis of course Genesis. Yeah, it's just I kind of put out of thought about this the other day though, there's so much of this that was just so avoidable like actually the core
The core of so many of these businesses was like fine. It was like the actual core concept and the actual businesses, which is why there's other people that are completely okay. Just like just don't get greedy and don't get stupid and it'll be okay. Yeah. Yeah. So it'll get there, but like, yeah, it's gonna take time.
But for me, I mean we've been here before and I remember in 2018 I was thinking after the boom market in 2017, 2016 I was thinking like okay, is this just a fact like is this really gonna go away? Like are we ever gonna recover from this but now fast forward?
to today in 2022, DeFi and decentralization is the only solution here. Like all this stuff that's been happening with FTX and whatnot, Celsius, like, BucFi, the list just goes on now. It's happening because
is not transparent, you can't see it on Jane, like DeFi and decentralization is the solution. So let's just get there already. I think the biggest thing is just taking people out of the equation, like it's like any technical system, or
Yeah, any technical sister or any system like the people tend to be the problem. Um, why am large like even when something's been kind of coded like typically the issue was probably someone like an individual somewhere. Yeah, just thinking every single time like I've had
thinking of like previous careers and stuff where something went wrong, like it was almost universios and people problem. It was never like some piece of tech or some piece of code wasn't doing what it was meant to. It was like, yeah, problem was definitely always in chair, never in computer.
Definitely. But I can see people are starting to tune in, which is great. So I guess let's just start diving right in. So welcome everyone to the Cosmos Club where we tweet all things Cosmos. We summarize that in a week and newsletter and then we invite interesting
fascinating, hard-working builders of the Cosmos ecosystem to spaces like these. Today we got Fraser. Welcome back to the Club Fraser from Jack. Thanks for having us. Honestly, I always look forward to this mainly because you know the topic that we're talking about so well, so it's always a pleasure coming back.
It's a lot of things that have happened as we were just talking about. But for anyone who doesn't know about checked and the check token, perhaps just try to, this is unfair, but try to give a quick summary on what you guys are building and why people need to pay attention here.
So what check is focused on is giving people back control and portability of their data. That's really what it boils down to. So the easiest way is if you start talking about use cases, it's like taking your reputation wherever you need to socially, taking your content wherever you want to, taking like online
line avatars or even in real world taking your medical history to where it should be or that kind of thing. And where we're focused on specifically is enabling payments for that data and that's where the token and stuff comes in is enabling payments for that data as it gets
moved around. One of the biggest things is getting that data out to kind of individuals so that they can start using it in different places. So yeah, I guess that's along the short of it is like I'm trying to avoid using the words SSI and credentials but really it's like data portability, privacy and trust.
Yeah, yeah, I think what I what I always think about when I think about you guys is very mostly lingering on the promise of blockchain I mean money is a killer app you can say I'm not blockchain right now, but really is all about data and letting
protocols, apps, platforms, whatever, giving you the sort of edit rights, view rights, whatever rights you want to give to your data, you have control over. And check this very much and enable of that.
One of the elements I didn't touch on so much was reputation. And that's one of the things that we've a lot of people used to talk and probably still do about like the internet is missing an identity layer. And we've started talking about something a bit different now, which is like it's missing trust.
I'm not going to ask you, like a lot of people on this call will like how people that they speak to and like web through your crypto that they don't know like they're real world, real world identity at all. Like they don't really know anything about these people, but they've spoken to them for like
months to years, like they trust them. I know some of our advisors, they'll send six figures of money to people that they've never met, don't know the name of and don't have an address for.
that trust over time and they will just do it without even thinking. And that's not identity like that's reputation. So I think that's we're starting to talk about that more and more and that kind of hints to something that we're starting to build out that probably kind of come through early in the new year.
Interesting. Interesting. Yeah, I mean the two things overlap a lot, too many, to a large extent, I would say. But I think the big news that you guys have already spilled a little bit is the change in tokenomics in your check token. So what I think, what people need to realize,
And I think that's very clever is you guys have sort of a dynamic white paper if you will. You have iterations of your of your tokenomics of your token in general, token structure, which you can see in different blog posts that you've posted. But perhaps just a
Give us a little highlights of what you've changed recently in your fourth. Absolutely. And I think I'm just going to jump on what you said just there for a second. Like, yeah, we're a bit unusual that we haven't like we didn't we didn't publish a white paper. And part of that was
as we kept on going through we just kept on learning more and more and it felt like if we if we try to write something and then release it we'd spend like three to six months writing it releasing it and realizing that like parts of it needed changing so instead we've we've like turned that into like series of blogs and I think I think once we have
like the first version of payment rails out, like I think that's probably the bit where we can wrap all this up and be like, okay, like here's the first version that we think is like pretty good, like it's a good start. But I think transparently, like we're looking at this as it's a concert learning process, like there is so much about the flows
like the market that we understand a lot better after a year than we did when we were speccing out in the first place. Now, in terms of the most recent changes, it's probably best if I start with what we had before, which was initial supply in November last year was a million tokens
I think we'd set it between one, maybe one and a half and four percent. And the threshold for that was we'd have to get above I think 60, 66 percent staking to
to start that number dropping. And we had no burn apart from anyone who was like slashed or tombstone or like no with veto. So it was all inflationary, no top limit, although the ambition was like we
start dropping that over time and there was just nothing to counteract it. So that was kind of where we started and the other part was we kind of started with this. I think most of it was driven by the tech and what we had available. We started off with the tech, so we started off where identity
actions just cost gas. So what that meant was just the cost for an identity transaction versus other networks was super, super low. So the best example there is sovereign, which is a public
Yes, public permission network charges. I think it's around like $10 or $20 per dead. So it's like it's a decent chunk and I think before what is a network currently stands like for us it's probably around like 0.1 or 0.0
$5, like super super cheap. And basically, I think this was just a function of where the tech was out of the time and the network. We didn't have that functionality, we need to get this launched. And therefore, it made a lot more sense to get it out of the dawn, revise it later on.
And we've kind of hit that point. So the easiest way to now talk about the new tokenomics is to kind of go and reverse of what I just did around inflation and then the pricing. So what we've done is we've taken pricing like DIDS, schemers, credit
there's revocation registries. We've given those like a dollar price and then we reverse engineering those into amounts of check tokens and so that kind of achieves like a price but that
So what that means is to go and deploy those things, there's an X number of tokens which needs to be consuming. Now what's kind of the next question is like what do you do with those tokens? Where do those tokens go? And so that's where really one of the big debates is up for the community which is
Those tokens can go to two places. One is they can be distributed in proportion to staking rewards. So what that means is if we take a single dead and the pricing for that at the moment is going to be somewhere in between 50 and 60 checks,
That can go straight into staking rewards and that means that any block that has a single did in it is now worth like four or five times what a block which is just transaction fees is on the zone. So it's like it's a really big difference. And so yeah, going back
The question is where do those tokens go? We can either distribute them as alongside stake. Staking rewards APY will go up as utility does, which is quite neat. The flip side is we burn them. The flip side is we literally just take all the tokens and just burn them straight out.
What that achieves is like a PY stays exactly where it is, which is still pretty good. And the next bit is, yeah, but effectively we're starting to like burn out tokens. So between those two things, we've kind of got a balance and that's really,
For the community members like listening on the call, that's really where the debate is here. Like we can supercharge APY or we can start burning tokens. And obviously that's going to scale with utilities, so there's a big thing there. But the biggest thing is, effectively, we've got this
kind of trade off between improving APY's utility goes up or like burning tokens out. And what could be really interesting on the burn side is because obviously we've got inflation still there on the network, burn like it starts becoming a thing, if the burn is like hyper hyper agro
So, there's a load of different dynamics that we can start to put into play. And the intention is really that we bring supply back to around its initial supply so we can bring it back to that like billion number. So, that's, there's a community that has a lot of different
to propose a lot on Commonwealth and we really want to see like that is fully open to for debate like we really want to see the outcome of that and the other part is so effectively those were like the two different mechanisms that we're proposing in but we also
used as an opportunity to go and like open up a discussion on the community pool. So anyone tracking us would have seen that we like animal and a community member pulled down from that a couple of months ago and that was for their work
demonstrating and on creds and a bunch of other stuff and they're kind of carrying on that work on libraries, which is, which is amazing. But what's really like we basically want to empower that and we don't think that the community pool is big enough for being fed quickly enough to go and empower that kind of work. And so
Again, this is open to the community that we really want to see the direction it goes, but we think there's a really big opportunity here to go and supercharge the community pool, drive a load more value into it, and actually drive a load more development work that isn't being driven necessarily by ourselves or our partners.
So those are kind of the three main changes. It's kind of a lot of lessons learned after a year. And the aim is really to go and set ourselves up for the future and make sure that, like, yeah, we're not going anywhere, which we're already well set up for, but this kind of makes sure that it's like, it's going to go into decades.
Make sense. And something that, well, just to take it from the top, I mean, when you are at blockchain, the checked network, basically, as a network, I know you have other things going on, but as a network, as a blockchain, the only thing you're really selling is a block, right?
What are you producing? You're producing blocks as a blockchain. So if you increase the price of a block, as you mentioned before, the number of checks to process transactions in different blocks, then where does that money go? Where does that price increase go? And typically you have
three options, inflation or staking rewards, you got burn or you got allocating to a community to build up the ecosystem. That's the main three things. But the question that I'm getting a lot from the community here is how does that discussion go, right? Because obviously we all, we want all three things.
we want a bigger ecosystem, we want one more high APIs, high staking rewards, and we want burn to limit the supply and increase the price. So how, a question from the community, I can see from multiple people is how is that discussion happening internally if you can unveil a bit? Yeah.
And it is a good question. So for us, it's, I think it's achieving a balance. And I'd say the balance isn't there right now. Like the network is too cheap, especially for the BD efforts that we drive. Like that's a really big thing that we've maybe not spoken about.
So I credit to Toby, I had a partnership. It's like we make so many connections and drive so much pipeline that there's a real value to deploying onto the network. Like we can bring people together or bring clients together that other people just can't. So right now, like the balance is definitely not there. And I'd say the
balance right now is that the network is too cheap, as it currently stands against the value, the community pool is probably underfunded versus where it should be and where we think it would be optimal. But the nice thing I think is that
the like the burn and the APY actually should scale up with utility. And like a really extreme version of this would be that the burn takes us actually below a billion, even with inflation.
and therefore we may choose as a community or a team or a community to go and increase the inflation. So in that scenario, like your burns greater than inflation to the point where you've had to go and increase inflation, I think the thing that I'm kind of looking at being intentioned
So that really nice thing that we can park off to the side is to some degree the community pool. Now if we go and increase that like yes, there's going to be some marginal impact to staking rewards, but actually like it kind of lives off on its own like if we all agree that the community pool needs better funding like that's a very easy
thing to drive. And then what that leaves intention is effectively like the burn and inflation. And that's where we can be more aggressive with the burn if we want to be or we can relax it. And I think that's going to be the fascinating thing to watch in the community is like, what does the community prize?
is a driving down like total supply or is it increasing staking rewards like where do people actually want that to be and what are the tradeoffs like my personal view is that actually a high burn up front is good and the reason behind that is that
it just immediately starts taking more if you think kind of APY and inflation is cumulative and it's continuous. So the more you take out upfront in terms of burn, the better further down the line. So you're still maintaining that percentage, but actually you're going to reduce
the future total supply that needs to be taken out to achieve that benchmark number. So I think that's what I'm, and I know I actually can see someone on the call who's already raised this, I'm like, oh, could we, like, if all the numbers work out, drive this so that we go well below a billion. So yeah, I mean, that would entirely be possible.
And the kind of logic of how, like that's why we want to maintain dollar pricing is it's still stable for the people who use it, but actually for token holders, they can start making those choices of how the economy kind of works internal to that.
So yeah, it's going to be a complex system. It's definitely going to be dynamic. And I think what we're looking for to is like how that starts shaping up over time. That was a long round ball. I'm sorry. No, no, I think anything makes sense. I mean, you can reverse engineer it. You have flexibility.
you can become, you can be dynamic, you've been dynamics is the beginning. Of course, there will be some people who will not like that because they want perfect predictability and there will be people that love that. Myself included that you can adopt to fit the market, to fit the changes
in the ecosystem, whatever might happen, because we all know, we say whenever we create projects, we create protocols, we set out to do one thing and then we learn a hell of a lot. The time when we are the stupidest is when we start. We only get smarter from that typically.
it's literally like being a kid at the start. Like if you look at it as like a journey from being literally a baby to being an adult and yeah there's probably arguments to some people that they never actually like improve but like the amount that we've learned in like in a year and it's tangential but like
myself Eduardo and Ross were all at web summit for like three or four days and it's one of the first times that we've been in the same place altogether and we tested out all of our messaging inside those three days and we started off probably quite naive and by the time that we hit the end of three
four days were like, oh, we don't need to use the word SSI at all, we don't need to use credentials, we don't need to talk about any of this stuff. Like, this is the way of talking about it. And I'd say it's been the same with tokenomics just over a lot longer to longer period. Like, it's, and some of that's been down to like, obviously,
needing to do the dev work to achieve them in the first place? Yeah. I want to switch early on to questions from the community because there's a lot which is a great sign. There's a lot of interest from the community. Both on the call I can see here on the space but also before. So a lot
All of the questions that we're getting here is about the ecosystem. Not so much how you build up ecosystem, but how can people use, let's say, your developer, how can people use, check, implement it, say, I'm a web developer, app developer, whatever developer I am, how do I start using it?
checked and the check protocol. Yeah, great question. And honestly, the one that we looked at here, so Eduardo and Matt are going to kill me because it involves them like tweeting out stuff to match answers. But we've got a, there's a video up there which is by, I mentioned it kind of before by Animo.
and what they did was they took our SDKs and then they built demos on them. And that video is like
It's completely open on YouTube and it just shows the art of the possible in terms of one organization issuing data to a person, that person sharing data onto another organization and they are all kind of moving around. The really nice thing is we have this cycle and
pretty much any use case looks very very similar to that like you have an organization whether it's like the company, a Dow like something issuing data to a person. And that person sharing it on to someone else as an organization, a go know as Dow. And
What's quite neat from the example that you can see from anima is if you just swap out that data to whatever you want and then swap out the organizations to whatever you want, you basically can have an entirely different use case. So then like that's that's the
That's probably the first place to start is I can look at that demo because that's pretty good. It just shows you what's possible. And then the other thing that I'd say is, I kept Martin Eduardo going to kill me. We have a load of SDKs effectively.
So a load of services, a load of SDKs that people can start using and building upon. So probably, like there's a really quick aside, a lot of the stuff unchecked doesn't happen on the ledger. Like it happens through SDKs, it happens through APIs and
stuff as interaction with the ledger like it's really really crucial but a lot of it goes on off ledger and so as a result like there's a lot of SDKs the biggest one is probably Viramo and then we're currently working out with Waltides SSI kit so working with them on
on something which I can't go into too much detail of. And then Animo leading up work on Erie's framework JavaScript and Acapize. That's Erie's something something Python. The Devital Kemi for not knowing. But effectively like there's a load of SDKs around there, a load of documents
at learn.check.io or product.check.io and all of those will take you through tutorials on how to go and get this running. That video will show a really good example of use case and you can pretty much scale it from there.
Like, yeah, that's like the demos are good video to watch to understand what's possible and then everything after that is just getting hold of the SDKs and going from there. Nice. And yeah, just a shout out to all the learnings and resources and material that you've pushed out. There's a lot of
a lot to go through for anyone who's interested in building with checks. So yeah, it's all there really. And I'm sure more is being added by the day almost. Yes. Yeah, there's a lot there. And the nice thing is because of the way that we're working with partners, like that list is just going to grow and grow and grow.
So we started off with Varamo. Now we're kind of working with animal on AFJ, so JavaScript and accapies are Python and then Walt ID now and there's just going to be kind of more and more coming down the line. So yeah, this is this is the start.
Nice. And a follow up question to that, which is another community question, but it falls nicely into this one is what is the general pushback that you receive from anyone who shows interest in building with checked? Is there like a pattern on, you know, what are the barriers really? Oh, I'm really good.
question. So I, if any, I'd say honestly, the one that we've had so far is a, it's more of a, I wouldn't say misconception, but it's more of a thing about SSI, self-suffering, ID in general. And it's basically that it's super hard to develop with. And
So pre-conceptions, the right way of describing it. There's a pre-conception that exercise is really hard to develop with. And historically, that's definitely been true. And what we're trying to do now is boil it down, so it's really, really not that hard. So a lot of people come in with this pre-conception of like, if you
If you really, a great example is if you compare SSI to NFTs, NFTs are so easy to do and that's why people started using them for identity because it was just easy. But it's not great. They've got privacy issues all over the place.
SSI is like it's a lot more private there's a lot more like cryptography and stuff going on but it's more difficult as a result so now yeah that's probably one of the biggest things that we have coming in is people like approaching us been like like SSI is hard right yeah it is like but it needs to get easier
it's got to be a lot more easier for people to just pick it up and build it out. So it's one of Ankara's CTOs, I wouldn't say pet peeves, but one of his biggest missions is just go and make this easier because it's way too hard right now. And I'd say that's the only one. It's all around
just like this thing is too damn hard, let's make it easier. And that's where the technology comes into play. I mean, technology is an enabler. Lower is the barriers to really anything. So yeah, I think you have the right place, perhaps even at the right time. Yeah, and I think it's also
down to, if you look at our partners, they've all got different approaches to stuff, different ways of approaching the market, different ways of solving solutions, and I think they're going down that path as well, like this just needs to be a lot easier.
So it's a journey, I think like SSI started off like really academic, like really almost like creating its own rules to stay as like this nice little club, but I think it's rapidly, rapidly like democratizing. And that's the, I think that's
one of the biggest things is just like, yeah, everyone go down that path. Like some of the, like, the stuff I've really, I really kind of go to any detail on this, but like, Matt and I do I have seen one of the things that we're kind of building out now. And like, some of the bits are so simple to use.
And yeah, it's stuff that just like, it's more down to design, I'd say, like it's really on like making the user experience like super, super slick. It's about where like it's easier than actually using any alternative. So I think, yeah, I think that's going to be a bit of a
kind of theme going forwards, but it's yeah, we're definitely not all the way there yet. Yeah, with design comes, you know, the messaging that you mentioned earlier, like how do you talk about this, you know, so it's not, it doesn't feel foreign to people, which it might in the beginning at least as a side, like most
people like, what is this desire? What are you talking about? So yeah, there's a lot of there's a lot of round debt. So it's not there. I totally agree. And it kind of goes that really brief aside on Web Summit. Like it's why we've started just talking about trusted and portable data because like no one knows what SSI is.
is not really knows what decentralized ideas, but if you start talking to people about like, oh, you could do this with it, you could do that. You could do ticketing, you could do decentralized reputation, they suddenly get it. So the way that we ended up doing it was whenever anyone came
over and they're like, "Oh, what are you guys doing?" And we're like, "What do you do first? Tell us what you do." And then we'll just give you an example of whatever you do. So it could be like telcos and we're like, "Oh, like, what if, whenever an engineer turned up to your door, like you could prove that they actually came
for the company that they say they work for and you don't have to rely on the fact that they're wearing a high risk vest and the name tag they could have printed out themselves. So there's like a load of different stuff that you can kind of work in there. So yeah, I think it's more starting to talk about use cases. Like the
I'm going to pick the guys in the background and see if they'll allow me to talk about it. So it might need to come back to this. But yeah, I think the main thing is just talking about use cases rather than anything else. Yeah, yeah, I think that's wise. I mean, talk about the applications, talk about how people can use it rather than the rails running behind.
And that's, I mean, honestly, that's not just for you guys, that's for anyone working with blockchain. People don't really care about how data is stored in general. Nerds too, perhaps. But in general, people don't. They just want it to work. They need to be safe. And if there's added benefits that blockchain
blockchain can provide compared to centralized databases. Great. But people don't really care that much. Totally agree. One of the biggest eye-opener on Web Summit was we thought people, and this has been a hundred a while, like
We thought people cared about privacy and they cared about anonymity and some people do like definitely and for good reason. What was really interesting for us was actually a lot of people are more care like they care more about utility. They care a lot more about like I
I want to, like, the easiest example now is all the people who are like, "I really want to go from Twitter to master on, and I hate that I have to rebuild my social graph, and I hate that I have to move all my content over manually." That's a perfect example of where like SSI would
would completely get rid of this as an issue. And it's nothing to do with like high trust or big assurances or identity documents. It's just like take your data away you want it to or where you want to want to take it. So yeah, I think that was one of the biggest things that we took out of that was it was all around just use cases and utilities.
rather than even where the data was stored. It was more about like control and portability with a little bit of privacy mixed in. I think that's a great segue to a question that I find pretty interesting from. "Budisher Man" is the Twitter handle. He's
basically asking about the data marketplace. If that's something that you guys are considering, you just mentioned taking your data wherever you want, that could also include selling whatever data you want. If that's something that you guys are moving into or planning to do, because I think it does somehow overlap with checks
but perhaps it's a whole different field than you don't want to get into. No, it's perfect. So it's like obviously one side that we're doing is very much around like portability, utility and a bunch of other stuff. A lot of what we talk about, then this is for individuals, but it
really resonates a lot more with companies and enterprise is the ability to have a data marketplace, especially at trusted data marketplace. One of the biggest things that we found is if you go and talk to enterprise that really big companies
companies and, like, for say 100, S&P 500 kind of companies, they completely understand the data economy. Like that is a very, very normal thing for them to talk about, especially like CIOs, Chief Data Officers, CSOs, like it kind of thing. And if you basically just add trust onto that and say it's like that, but we're trust.
and portability, they just get it. So the data marketplace is a couple of things like, yes, there's the ability, there's definitely will be the ability for individuals to go and sell data, but maybe it's their preferences, maybe
certain information about themselves that I think is valuable, that will be possible. But the other big thing is incentivising companies that have that data to give it out to people. That's going to be one of the biggest things. Let's get this data into the hands of individuals. Let's get it out of silos and make it portable. The biggest
The biggest way of doing that is to make a marketplace. It's to have people, like, sorry, have the organizations with these massive data silos actually be rewarded or paid for that data and be part of that ecosystem because it's kind of why we founded checked. We kept on finding that loads of people love
the idea. Everyone thinks that companies want to spy on people and some of them definitely do. But what's fascinating is that when you go and speak to a team, it's obviously made up of humans and those people are like, "Oh, I would really like it if I could take my data wherever I wanted." So suddenly you can speak to people on like
get behind the corporate kind of veil and be like, look, we just everyone wants to be able to do this use case. Like wouldn't it be great if we could? But the problem they always had was like, okay, I need to justify this to the company and like, how do I do that? And it needs to be money. So that's really where the marketplaces comes in. Like it's certainly
like involving individuals, but a lot of it is also like incentivizing companies to go and release that data in the first place. Otherwise, like, it's going to end up with all of us on this call, just saying stuff about ourselves, trying to sell it, and no one's going to buy it because we could just make it up. So, yeah, I'd say those are going to
main things is, yeah, it's definitely part of what we're building out and it's kind of called to what we're doing really. I think that makes sense getting companies on board, but if we are to build something for individuals, something that's immediately
So my mind at least is something like brave the brave browser what they have built where they incentivize people to use a system in the brave token could be the check token for using some main depth that you guys launch or even just distribute in a
community pool somehow, the depth that it's building on top of the check protocol, is that something that you guys are considering also like, sort of incentivizing with rewards in check? Yes. Yeah, and that's like probably the best example I can give is in e-commerce and there's a, it turns
up there's like four or five of our partners, all of which are kind of up and coming that are looking at this. But it's all around like how do you use that, how do you use SSI to smooth the commerce journey? Like if they're going to go and buy stuff online, how do they make it so it's super easy to like, like enter their details, check out and
just go through that process super super quickly. And like I could absolutely see rewards going like from merchants to people in check or like any other. I think what's really interesting there is like there's there's actually a parallel which is a thing called top cashback and it's in the UK
basically works like affiliate marketing. So where a website would host an advert, normally the website will get a cut of any commission of a sale that goes through that advert. And in this scenario, you could basically, what Top Cash bycodes is it hosts all these adverts.
and instead of keeping all the money, it gives a proportion back to the user and I think that's the way it's going to go is like a person can go and share that data and as a result sharing that data they're rewarded because they've reduced the amount of fraud, they've made it way safer and actually they're
less likely to fall out of the queue that kind of thing. So it's really interesting from that perspective. And yeah, I can definitely see rewards going through. I think one thing, if you look at like Brave and the way that that works, like it's got loads of people to use
It's kind of it's achieving something very very different. So it's got loads of people to use brave browser. It's got loads of people to like avoid Advert, so I'll get paid for watching Advert, but it hasn't really freed anyone's data up like it's not actually given that data back at all. Right. And so that's I think
where we're slightly different, which is like, oh, it's really good that we can do this. But it's still, it's not ideal in that we can't like, yeah, it's not actually releasing that data out to people. And I think that's probably the main thing that we're aiming for out of everything. Nice.
Speaking of check and the check token and rewards, what is the aim for check to become like a store value for the network? It's a more to facilitate transactions and retrieve the ID. What would you
you say is like a North star that you're looking to. I know it's a dynamic thing, but what is the star that you're looking to these days? Yeah, I think I think two things. So and this is this is kind of what we're starting to focus on now or are focusing on now. So you've got you
We've got two things. There's one which is like using the utility. So writing, digs, writing credits, writing schemas. That's very much like paying for the utility of the network. So that's one side of things. But then the other side of things is very much store or value.
And the reason behind that is, there's probably won't be in like the first iteration of payments, but like what we're looking at is when we're setting up payments between organizations. So like let's say, I'm a company, I issue
you with loaded data, you go take it somewhere else, you get paid, I also get paid. But obviously I've issued that data, like different pieces of data, it's like maybe 10,000 people, a million, like these huge numbers of people, actually we can set
that up so that we want to do that in bulk. We don't want companies to be paying another company like a dollar over the network. That just doesn't make any sense. So what we want to do is actually batch that up into significant amounts.
and then have that cent across maybe two weeks, maybe four nightly, maybe monthly, something like that. And the best way that we can think about doing that is by using check as collateral. So check will start to be locked up into escrow accounts.
And what all that happened is whenever credential is checked or issued, there's a commitment to pay from whoever receives that data to whoever issued it in the first place. And what we can do over time is like effectively allow a company to move up to that point of collateral.
and at the point where they hit it or they hit two weeks or they hit a month, they have to pay down everything. And what that means is like right now obviously check is like currently high velocity because it's being used for gas and obviously try to actually
across the network are quite high. But as we start locking it up, it shifts from being purely a token for payment into being a store of value and collateral. And therefore the velocity should start slowing down as well. So it's going to be a process, like you were saying, it's definitely
dynamic, but it's going to start off with like, yeah, tokens being used for that utility, like that's going to be a thing burning out, what kind of thing. And then as we shift into payments and get through those iterations, like it's going to start slowing down and being used as that store of value and coming out that way.
make sense. I want to open up the floor a bit. I got some feedback from some of our followers that I wasn't including enough people. So I want to make sure I don't make the same mistake here. And I've seen Max, Max, been requesting to speak for very long time.
I think since we started the space actually. So I just invited you Max as a speaker. Not sure sometimes you need to accept the invite that I give. So I hope you are able to see it. I can see you've been high-fiving and loving
the on the Twitter space here. So Max, I guess you're not able to speak. Just invite you again to see if it's possible. Yeah, and I always mention. Yeah, and just while he's coming up, I can kind of see a couple of questions from him as well. So, um,
There was a comment around like you say network trust the data. How can we be sure how can trust you because you see a lot of systems like you but still leak our data out there. So it's a good question and I think the real difference is like we don't
hold the data. I think that's one of the biggest things that is great for us. We don't hold it, like individuals hold it, and it makes it a lot more powerful as a result. So, instead of being able to, if people are down in
Australia, like there's been so many breaches there, metadjust had a breach. And all those companies have like millions and millions or hundreds and millions of records. And you can just like, if you get into that honey pot, you can just go and take them all down. And the ring has moved into SSI is like, that data is
signed, it's encrypted, it's like if you're asking for the signed version, you can't just copy that down and reissue it, like it's tamper evident. And so if you want to start kind of going after people's data, you really have to start like going almost one by one to get that data in a usable format.
So it completely changed the paradigm, but I think with the easiest way of like how we're not the same as others is like, we don't own that data at all. It's not ours. It's completely under the control of the individual. But I see he's potentially made it up. So let's see. Yeah, Max, are you able to unview?
Yeah, good evening. What are you doing? Great. We can hear loud and clear. Yeah, Frieza, what are you doing? Yeah, nice bullet. I'm good. Yeah, I just have some, yeah, I just have some little question because I'm so curious concerning commos and blockchain that you
join so it's very interesting and I reach you guys a very big and so says so let me not go to the point my question is that though you've read you've read some part of the questions so the next one is that how do you generate your revenue and how
Do you have any partnerships like any individuals and big influencers like partnership which you are basically involved in building this together? And in terms of security we will be seeing a lot of things that is happening
right now that is putting scared into women's and investors' mind from one in the world, from cryptos. So it's very urgent. So then in terms of security, I already do intend to put more security like I've been
audited with some of these big audit companies. So let me just drop it. Thank you so much. Cool. Okay, lots to take in there. So let's start with the revenue side. So obviously like one side of this is on ledger. So there's an entire token economy.
And that's kind of what we've just told through so far, so making this more sustainable in terms of burns, also in terms of locking tokens up inside collateral like all that kind of jazz.
If we then look through into like there's a whole other side of the business so the other part is like actual fee revenues so
There are projects right now that are building on private networks. They're building on things like hyperledger indie and that codebase just isn't going anywhere. So we're basically like one of the really big things now is potentially providing private networks to those
organizations who like they can't go onto a public main net yet, like they're just not in that space. So providing them with that kind of, yeah, providing them with that kind of option. And that would be fear revenue. Like that's really the key where that's going to come.
And then the other side of things is going into like referring work. So actually taking, I kind of mentioned at the top of the call, like we, we make a lot of connections a lot and we actually
like speaking to loads of companies looking to build out. And then so we're now in the process of like, okay, let's go and work with our partners to go and start executing these. And I think that's where that's going to become kind of more and more fun, like longer and longer term.
So yeah, I think that's one of the big things is I get go there's like the private network side of things which is gonna be like it's it's only for people that can't make it onto main net. So it's very it's not like we're taking people off main net. It's very much people that like wouldn't be able to do that in the first place.
And then separately, there's like actually working with our partners to go and service needs. So that's again, for your side. And then I think your next question was around partners. So this is probably one for Matt and Eduardo to tweet out another link, but we've got over like 40 or 50.
So we recognize over 60% of the market as it currently stands. And they're in the process of like integrating us into their platforms and their tech. So that's kind of happening like over this period.
people aggressively working that through. And the next thing is obviously working with them to then go out to clients like I said already and start servicing those use cases because those partners already work with different
industries, different use cases, all that kind of thing. So they're obviously like, they're very focused on different areas. And so we're kind of like working with them to start working and going tackling other industries. And the final bit is in terms of security.
there's a couple of parts of this. So at the base layer, we're obviously cosmos like, cosmos SDK, that's really like the base of this. And the next bit is going into, yeah, actually going into kind of layers above this. And that's where most of this is
open source and I think the biggest thing to call out is we don't have smart contracts on the network. Everything that's on there at the moment is all identity focused and therefore as a result all of this goes out into
It all goes into open source SDKs. It goes into, kind of, onto the network.
on top of Cosmos SDK and this open source as well. So I think the key thing there is, like it's really
Yeah, it's not been driven by smart contracts and therefore, as a result, we don't have the same risk profile as say like a DEX or some of the other stuff that's out there that's been going wrong recently. So yeah, I realized that's quite a long answer to three questions, but that's the reason why. Yeah, I think
I think just to add to this in terms of smart contracts and the security risk and all that, like the DAPS that enable is enabled by a Cosmawasm or whatever that is built on top of checked, they will be needed to be ordered perhaps, the code that they build or
platform, whatever, but checked and the network is very much like taking components from the customer's ecosystem, customer's tech, which has been reviewed enormously by the community. Yeah, and that's and that's part of it. Like we. Actually, you probably see this more than we do, but.
has been some kind of shade thrown at Cosmos, which is like people are just rebuilding stuff that other people have built and deployed before. And they're building utilities onto networks where like an existent is consumable elsewhere. So one of the things that we're starting to do is
Like look at other networks that we can go and use the utility on to go and accelerate how quickly we can deliver. We found a few. We won't say who yet, but we'll probably figure out early next year. Or start becoming evident like early next year.
And it means that like we can go a lot quicker. So there's like two or three utilities that we're going to pick up from elsewhere because we know that it will speed up our development cycle by like six months. So yeah, I'd say that's the biggest thing is like we're actively taking or using
using utilities from other networks and other software and Cosmos networks to go and accelerate quicker. In the same way that we're obviously using Osmosis as a DAX, like gravity as a bridge, like yeah, all of those are just speeds up the kind of velocity that we can go at.
We got another requester, catchy. I'm approving your request to speak. Let's see if that gets picked up by Twitter fast enough. It's always interesting to see how this tech works out. Yeah, I can see that you're muted, catchy.
I'm not going to be able to. Yeah, okay. Perfect. Yeah. Good evening. Yeah. My question is, I haven't had all of the good stuff you guys have said. So check, where do you see
yourself in the next its months. And then talking about transparency with the recent happenings in the system, how transparency is the tokenomics of check and cosmos. Thank you.
Okay, starting with the second one first. Oh, sorry, actually let's start with the first one. So in eight months. Right, there's one thing that I can't talk about that I
I'm hoping is going to be massive. Eduardo, Matt and Ross, I can see typing in the background and be like, "Don't say anything, but so I won't." That's one of the biggest things that I'm waiting for. It's weird, it's very tangential to
to like our core focus, I could very much periphery. But I think it's going to be one of the biggest things that we do just in terms of impact. And I'd say that the thing is like starting to see like payments and how they're working. And so
like, it's like that time, like, definitely, like some form of payments. And I think seeing the economics of how they work out, like, we've got all this theory of like, who's going to pay who, like, which side the dynamics are going to be on?
But I think that's going to be one of the most fascinating things. I think one of the biggest things I'm waiting for is I want to see in like, inside their months is effectively becoming like the credential provider for Cosmos. And I think that's really doable.
It means people across Cosmos issuing credentials using the network for God knows what purposes could be decentralized reputation. It could be avoiding fraud, like just people issuing credentials left, right, and center and doing so with some form of payment
where they're where they're where they're useful and seeing kind of the dynamics of like who pays what how much to they pay each other like all that kind of jazz and the final bit being that kind of super super secret scroll project that can't reveal anything about but I'm really looking for that being pretty
And then the final thing around transparency. So it's all up there, like everything's online, everything's obviously all in the ledger as well. We've been speaking to one of the
To one of the projects maintaining a block explorer and the community has been asking for a top number of wallets and that's something we're actively working with them now.
So it and all of that is in the name of transparency. So like one, we've written everything down and two, there's like actually like doing more development work and working with other projects to go and make that more visible and actually
I think we've released, we kind of mentioned a tool that we built to you as well. And effectively what the tool does is it shows like flows from accounts and you can start like tracing those about
about the network and that thing is online as well. So we've released that. Another effectively allows anyone to start like digging around the network whether it's checked or other customer's networks to go and figure out like behavior.
So yeah, I guess around that off like in terms of transparency, everything's
everything is documented, everything is published and actually we'll continue to keep on doing that as well. So yeah, I think there's in the same way that almost everything that we're doing right now is open source. Like we blog about it frequently. We're pretty well, we are transparent. So I'd say that's the, yeah, that's
That's the biggest thing. Awesome, Fraser. I'll close it off there because it's getting late and you guys are busy building the future of identity and data on chain. But you've been tremendous as always, Fraser. It's awesome to see you guys progress and being dynamic
I think a lot of people can learn from that who are stuck in their old ways. But yeah, thank you so much for joining Fraser. It's been fantastic. No, thank you. It's always a pleasure. And looking forward to being back when we've got the thing I can't talk about released and available for playing around. So that'll probably be early in the new year.
definitely man. Make sure to follow check on Twitter of course, but all the other channels they push out pretty good content. I can testify to that because I'm reading a lot of it myself. Thanks for I really appreciate it. Thanks for all the questions. Thanks, Fraser. Ciao.