Hello everyone and welcome to the club. Sorry about the slight delay guys. That's on my side. I can see
We have a request to speak already from Dimension. That's beautiful.
I believe you should be able to speak now. I can see the speaker icon at least. Yeah. I feel like it. Is it working? Can you hear me? Yes. Loud and clear. Beautiful. Welcome back, man. Awesome. Thank you. It's been a while. It's been a while.
Great, the cosmos is growing, this is what we'd like to see and Dimension is killing it these days, which is what we want to talk about today. Definitely, definitely. We've also been expanding. So, cosmos net
Cosmos is expanding into this interchange world where dimension is also expanding and Thank you said killing it, but these are your words These are my words and I'm sure these words from my side will be followed up by a show my actual actual content here
today but greats. I don't know if we should type right in or if anybody else should be invited to speak. Just want to make sure everybody from your side is invited. I had some spaces where someone came in like 30 minutes after just specifically awaiting.
Yeah, I'm not sure I think maybe the dimension account will join very soon, but in terms of speaking now, I'll speak or maybe if I see there's a initially here in Koran, there's other community members, maybe they can join if they want to speak. No worries man, no worries. All right.
guys, but welcome everyone to the Cosmos Club where we talk all things Cosmos, which we daily about what's going on and then we invite interesting, fascinating, hardworking builders of the Cosmos ecosystem. And today we got the mention welcoming them back. They've been on the at the club here before. So anyone who wants to get a
historical overview you can go and Spotify whatever and check out the previous spaces. But yeah, welcome back, man. Yeah, definitely. And just to make it easy on you, the name is Eshai. Eshai. Yeah, the spelling is a little bit confusing, but it's
It's not that hard. It's great to see you again, E-Shine for sure. So let's start with you. Now that we got your name right, we'd like to do these spaces now with a bit of a personal touch, I guess you can say. So how did you end up working with and for Dimension E-Shine?
So first of all, just to let everybody know on the co-founder and CEO of Dimension Labs. So how it all turned up is, if I would go back in history a little bit, I started studying computer science back
back in 2015. And they came across this, you know, Bitcoin thing. It took my whole life. If you guys remember when you first found out about crypto, it was like, it just blows your mind. And for me, specifically, it was like, I was always looking at all these big
materials, it was quite a rabbit hole I would say. So my main focus, even though I studied computer science, was crypto. What is crypto? What it is? The technology, the game theory, the economics. You just get so dry.
I've been working in the industry. I used to work for Kraken a few years. I used to have a Bitcoin credit card startup that was still running.
Look it up. It's called Spendo. So if you want big coin virtual cards, it's available. I used to work for a DeFi fund as well. So I've been through a lot of steps and cycles of this industry. And I was always super passionate about the infrastructure and the tech.
And at the end of 2021, so the opportunity arise and I felt like there's a big thing coming up with rollups and the ability to have one no-chains and the ability to scale the multi-chain world and there it all begins.
fascinating. I didn't know about Spendle. I think you mentioned before your previous experience with Kraken, but talk to us a bit about how you first, so that the Eureka moment that you had with Bitcoin, I guess you can say, how did you have a similar moment if you will about
multi-chain and roll-ups and perhaps the customers even now that this is obviously the customers club. So talk to us about that, how did that occur in your life, the whole multi-chain narrative? Yeah, I like that you said Yerika, because there's sometimes in crypto, there's like aha moments where you like
When you send your first Bitcoin transaction and I did that quite a while ago, I would say, like, at least seven years ago, when you did your first uni swap trade, I was like, wow. So there's nobody out there that's facilitating this trade apart from the blockchain itself.
a half moment. And when you did the first IBC transaction where you would port from blockchain A to blockchain B and you would be wow. So this is like two blockchains communicating. So every step of this is kind of like the evolution of blockchains.
This is how I feel like. And every part of it is like the aha moment. And I feel like in terms of dimension, I got the aha moment when I figured like IBC could be not just the horizontal bridging.
It can also facilitate a bridge between a blockchain and a network of roll apps, which is dimension. So this is kind of the aha moment that I had
In terms of dimension, in terms of the way I see it as kind of a big evolution or I would say a big paradigm shift that people aren't even looking at it in the scope that it is because it's so revolutionary.
I agree. I agree. And this is actually what really drew me and the whole customs club to you guys. Originally, I remember, I can't remember when we had the first space. I think this is the third or something we do do with you guys. But it was a very early days for us here at the customs club. But the narrative was just so powerful.
remember even even now I remember it's a year ago something like that where I think it was actually you who said like now with dimension you'll be able to not just scale on chain and blockchains horizontally by IBC by having different app chains running on cost was tech but also
So you can scale vertically with roll apps that you guys are building. And that just blew my mind, I remember, when I first read about it, when I spoke to you guys, it was really, I don't know if you call it a eureka moment, but definitely an aha moment for me. So yeah, well done on that, for sure.
Yeah, but thank you. I think, you know, an idea is contagious. Like you hear the idea, you hear the vision. It's like you get this aha moment, but you also get another aha moment when you use it or when you when you see it manifest into reality because this is like
two ways to look at it. It's a great idea, but there's also a great team behind myself and behind a lot of the people that you know, super talented engineers that are building this
and making this the reality. And this is what is important that we're manifesting this into something that's going to work and it's going to be incredible because
It's exponentially easier for us to create a network effect with the system and the architecture that we have in dimension.
Definitely. So yeah, let's just, so everybody is up to speed. What the dimension is, perhaps someone is uninitiated or having been paying for attention to the whole roll app space or modularity, modular blockchain space.
So yeah, just to perhaps explain to us like with five maybe 10 years old, what is dimension and why why should why should we pay attention here? So that mentioned is an internet. It's a network of rollups and what is rollups? Rollups is sort of
a blockchain solution where you could have a centralized node that has the security of a blockchain by submitting all the transactions and all the data needed to a blockchain. To simplify it, you know, to the people who
no cosmos, it's very similar to the cosmos but instead of expanding horizontally, we expand vertically. And this is why we actually chose the name dimension because it's literally bringing another dimension to the Internet of Blockchains.
beautiful and yeah for anyone paying attention to customers which most people have in our community I think that the narrative and that story there is just resonates a lot so yeah let's dive into how far you've come actually at this point
because this is not something that you came up with and pulled out of your ass yesterday. This is something that you guys have been working pretty hard on for quite some time. And you recently announced the launch of your first ever IBC-enabled EVM roll-up on your testnet. Talk to us about that and of course
If any other announcements and accomplishments that you want to highlight since the beginning of the mention and up to today But yeah, I think that's a big one the first ever IPC enabled EVM roll-up. Yeah, I agree it is a big one. It's something that we To be realistically this is what we think the flagship
of role apps are going to be like EVM. You don't want to go against network effects. Like you don't want to say, okay, I'm going to change. I want to be the best execution environment. No, we don't want that because people are familiar with EVM. People understand, you know, the UX of EVM. So I think
This is going to be kind of a game changer if we can make it very easy to people to have their own EVM roll up. This is why I think we caught a lot of attention because like, okay, it's the first EVM roll up in the IBC ecosystem. It's a big achievement and the way it's built.
It's built with the Etherment modules which is a lot of work from the EMS team which supported us and we worked a lot together on this. The roll-up itself, it posts data to Celestia. So for the people listening, dimensionism is a modular
architecture, which means it has a flunden, it has something that executes transactions, post the data into something that's similar to a database, and basically post the state route or the guarantee, the commitment of this data to the dimension hub, which makes sure that everything is valid.
And perhaps just again for the initiated talk to us a little bit about the Celeste setup and modularity blockchain. Maybe this is the first time someone hears about this listening to this space. So yeah, if they haven't been hearing about this, just perhaps talk to us and how it compares to
Of course, monolithic blockchains like Ethereum and perhaps others if you will. Yeah, there's a lot of confusion for people and I understand why, but it's pretty simple when you think about it from an engineering perspective so I'll try to make it a pictureistic and understand the
So the way we can split a web platform or web app, just the general web app, is that you have the place that you would interact with, which is the website font end. It's kind of the feeling that you get what you see when you interact with the web app. That web app
is connected to a server and that server has a database as well. So we do the same thing with blockchains. We say, okay, there's a front end block chain where the user is connected where it could be super fast, it could only focus on executing transactions. Then it needs to post the data in a way that is not centrally
And that we know that it's secure, but it also needs to connect to something that secures the system by logic, and this is the dimension hub. So this is the modular paradigm, and this is like creating this economic units for each particle in the system, which makes it more robust, more efficient.
of course, and more secure. So this is like every system in history, like history has a tendency to rhyme. And it means like it's not, it's not by incident that we got to this architecture is it's because this is what works in traditional web, it's going to work for blockchains as well.
Exactly. And in many ways, it's an open door, an open invitation, if you will, to actually build what a lot of people have been promising for a long time, like, you know, rebuilding the internet, rebuilding the web in Web3 and all that kind of stuff. But I'm
I mean, if you look at the throughput and how Ethereum, for example, operates, it's going to be very hard to see something like, I don't know, Instagram or whatever application we use on a databases, Uber, whatnot, to be operating
exclusive on Ethereum. I can just imagine the network fee and the congestion. So yeah, something has to be done. Something has to be different in a web 3 setup if we are to see the next line of startups and applications that people use on a databases.
on a big scale. If that's supposed to be running on blockchain rails, we need something different than this monolithic setup. And modularity seems to be the answer right now. I think that would you agree with that? For Ethereum, it's also moving towards the modular.
architecture, although it's not like this thing, but it is going to be a modular architecture. The thing about Ethereum, I feel like, probably mentioned this before, but Ethereum is like a plane that's already in the sky. It has its passengers, it has its architecture from previous designs, and it was initially
to be a world computer, a smart contract platform. But then, like you said, everybody understood that, okay, this is not, it doesn't work. You cannot put the next generation of applications online on this world computer. So a lot of smart dudes over there said, okay,
So how do we scale this? How do we make it work? And then they understood that they need to segregate between execution, roll-ups, consensus, settlement, and D8. So this is exactly what Dimension is saying. Listen, OK, we see history. We see what this
We see what Ethereum or a lot of smart people are kind of thinking for the best, what is the best design for blockchain? We have the ability to implement this because contrary to Ethereum, we have the ability to design a system from scratch to fit this
Exactly. I like the plain analogy. Another one that I also like to compare to, which I think fits nicely with the mobility narrative, is that Ethereum is kind of like New York City. I mean, it has an F-foundation and establishment. It's a lot of skyscrapers built on the
Ethereum and New York City. But what about all the other cities, all the suburbs, like all the different stuff happening around New York City, the rest of the world? I mean, real estate is super expensive in New York City, just like it's expensive to add data to the
blockchain. Not everybody wants to live in New York City, not everybody wants to put data on the Ethereum blockchain. So there's a lot of room for everything around that. And it seems like modular blockchain is really, it's really the answer to that. But it's going to be interesting to see how this play out.
Definitely is, it's more, I like to take the analogy of states, like for dimensions specifically, that it's like creating a republic or a federation of states where each state has its own kind of sovereignty to decide, okay, where do I want to put the data?
What execution environment do I want? How do I want to make things work? But still they get to guarantees they don't need to create an army right like Like the states like this California Arizona whatever each one of them creates their own rules and their own nature their own community, but they don't need to
have the United States Army, which this is kind of the dimension hub. This is, okay, we take care of the security, but you're free to kind of focus on what you need to do, which is either executing transactions and of course creating business logic, creating a community, putting applications, etc.
Exactly. So this is all great and something to resonate with a lot of people. But let's put it into practicality and that's what I love about dimension. You actually execute over there.
And to bring back the reason and accomplishment with the first ever IPC enabled EVM roll up. So how does a Zen Ethereum user or Cosmos user, how do they use this IPC enabled
We just released a tweet about how that mentioned utilize as IDC. And if you guys noticed that,
Once you're on EVMO's test, you can have one transaction to go to the EVM roll up. Dimension Hub is connected, IBC will be connected to the whole IBC ecosystem. Hopefully we're working on something pretty cool, which is called
ZKIBC to connect to Ethereum itself. So we want to connect to not just the Cosmos ecosystem, we want to have, you know, foot everywhere in the full interchange, which includes Ethereum, it includes even Bitcoin in some ways.
So we want to be kind of the modular hub in terms of settlement and let the roll apps themselves choose where they want to put data which includes also customers change themselves. This is kind of something I don't I don't feel a lot of people understand or know about dimension is dimension will not you know
or push roll apps to put data just on Celeste. It's developers could put, you know, you can have a roll apps that are actually, let's say, roll apps of a customer's chain. So maybe your Smosis will have a roll up and it's going to put the data on the Smosis L1. So the roll
is going to be a smossis, the data is going to be on a smossis as well, and I mentioned it's going to be there just to make sure that everything is valid in terms of transaction validity. But I'm getting back now to what you asked because I think I kind of moved it aside. The experience is something that's crucial for us. And like you said,
We are not, it's, that mention is not a marketing firm. It's not a, it's not a storytelling firm that doesn't execute. It's a vision that's getting executed pragmatically by our capabilities as engineers and as product people. And our first priority is to have the ability
of easy usage and easy liquidity flow between Ethereum and other ecosystems, and to have that working fluid. I imagine the experience from Ethereum to even just any other roll-up in the
system is going to be through one transaction, which the dimension hub acts as a router in the background to route the IBC transaction to the relevant roll app. Nice.
beauty of modularity I guess. This is actually a lot of work from the from IBC. I think IBC has proved itself as kind of the best or the most the cure protocol. And you know if there's something that I am I like to do with myself as a master
So if we have the consent, or I would say working with other ecosystem, not just customers, to kind of solidify IBC as the standard of the ecosystem.
As a standard protocol for bridging, I think we're going to have a much more fluid interchained ecosystem and the experience for everybody routing through the multi-chain world is going to be much more unified.
beautiful. And talk to us about your own test data maintenance, your own blockchain. If that's the right thing to call it, actually, I'm not sure if you will refer to dimension as its own blockchain. But obviously you use EtherMint for to accomplish the
the EVM roll up, I've seen enabled EVM roll up, but you have an incentivized testnet also where people, developers, blockchain, roll up, aficionados are invited to try things out, test things out.
Talk to us about that. Talk to us about your upcoming incentivized testnet. Yeah, definitely, but I just want to kind of emphasize something. If it's not good, I mentioned of course is a layer one blockchain with its own sovereign validator set. Its own consensus.
So it's a blockchain that's built to support an L2 network. This is kind of perfect if I wasn't clear about that. That's important to understand. So that mentioned hub is a layer one blockchain. The test that is running right now is 35 C. I haven't mentioned this.
or for people who maybe weren't following Discord too much, but 35c is actually the first dimension that Rick and Morty go to on the pilot episode of Rick and Morty. So 35c is the first network of dimensions
And it's kind of a paradigm shift. You can think of yourself as Rick and Morty going into the green Portal thing and you kind of come up to a new paradigm and you dimension. So this is the 35C network. So dimension hub is there as a blockchain.
which supports these two roll-ups that we deployed. Another one is coming very soon. I'll talk about that pretty soon, but the dimension hub has logic to support these two roll-ups that were deployed. The first one was roll-up X. This roll-up is
the first IBC enabled roll up in history. The second one, like we talked before, is the EVM roll up. It supports EVM applications. It has scale and latency of 0.2 seconds. So these roll ups
They actually register. So it's like a chain. It's not like a chain. It is a chain that registers themselves as a roll up as I mentioned roll up onto the dimension hub lock chain and creates this connection where these roll ups are required to submit their state.
every X minutes. So it's configurable, but you can think of it as a commitment from the roll up to the dimension hub to report the current state. And this is the current state of affairs of the network and the future in the very, very near future.
this network is going to be permissionless. So everybody could basically build an instance or build their own roll up, which is a single node for themselves, ask to register it on the dimension hub network, saying, "Hey, dimension hub, I am a roll app. I am doing as the protocol
Shoot I got my headphones. Hope knocked out.
All right, can you hear me? - I'm almost as loud Twitter space as, yes, loud and clear. All good. - Awesome. So, on permissionless.
deployment or the incentivized asset which is I guess a lot of people are waiting to hear about it and kind of eager to participate and understand how to participate. So every person with the role
All App Fam role, everyone in the family here, people with the people who are aware of the role at the Moji, which spins up like a roll app, everybody in the family could deploy basically they can it's building
their own role-app node, registering it with the transaction on Dimension Hub saying, "Listen, I'm part of the family, I'm a role-app, basically getting a chain that is secure with Dimension Hub, committing to update the state."
each interval, this is kind of the liveness requirement. And for that, getting incentives, getting participation incentives and basically
guaranteeing a stake in one of the biggest networks that we're going to see in blockchain in the next few years or decades.
Awesome, awesome. So yeah, where should people go? Just again, let's talk practicalities. I like to make sure that people know exactly where they should go and check out the incentivized testness and contribute perhaps even to dimension. So first of all, you have a lot of material people.
If you look at the course, come up to this code as question, the usual. In terms of documentation, there's a lot of docs. We're going to make the docs quite easier so things are not going to be so scary. In terms of building the roll up itself, it's going to be pretty simple. A few commands.
Just like you know to operate a Cosmos node to build your own Cosmos node, something very similar to that, registering, you know, running this chain on your computer, just registering it on the dimension hub. We're going to have a fresh, fresh easy docs for that in terms of materials in terms of stuff to learn how
about dimension, there's of course the light paper, there's a lot of stuff out there. If you're diligent, if you're smart, you'll get there, if you need help, just shoot. The Discord folks questions, I'm a lot there, so I'll be happy to answer. Yeah.
Awesome, let's talk about the roadmap ahead. So obviously you will have the testnet been going out there and the people playing around with it. Then at some point you will launch mainnet. I'm sure. Talk to us about the coming weeks and months.
perhaps years if you will, how how dimension evolves from here. Yeah, it's sooner than you think, hopefully, crossing things. So I would say the next milestone like we talked about is the permissionless deployment of roll ups on the network, small kind of
teaser or sneak preview to the name it's Proopyland which is another dimension that Rick and Morty go to turns everything crazy. Once we get permission that's in Tentify, Stasnet running,
We'll probably run it for a queue. So that's three months, two and a half, two to three months, something like that. I don't have the exact dates yet. And after that, we're going to deploy my net. So it's going to be
It's gonna I think the most important thing for people who are deploying their own role apps or deploying their own nodes is they can First of all they can you know get in senses for it so they can participate and align themselves with dimension, you know financial network decentralized network
But they can also kind of team up to understand what kind of communities can come up in Maynet and Something I didn't also note that on incentivized that's net People are gonna deploy roll apps and they're going to invest in it. So if there's dev teams that are gonna invest
in terms of creating something that's tangible, they're going to get rewarded, I would say pretty handsomely. And this kind of creates the surface to deploy mainnet, right? Because we're not going to deploy mainnet without it being safe and tested. It's going to be
This technology, we didn't really get into it too much deep into it, but it is a complex technology. It's something that a lot of right people are trying to build, and it takes time, and it needs to be, carefully assembled.
Things are going to be gradually assembled, but they are going to be deployed shipped and things are going to work. This is something that I promise you as somebody who's leading dimension is that dimension is about shipping products and about making things work and working safely.
But there's always kind of a tradeoff between deploying fast and making it safe. So we'll do that gradually. As I said, it may net. If according to plan, it's going to be this year. So it's going to be after the incentivized session.
And if I if I may talk about the future, I think that dimension is going to be something bigger than cosmos itself. It's maybe it's kind of arrogant to say that, but I think it was just grow to be something of its own. And it's going to be kind of bigger because it's just it's
Once you have network effects that can grow faster, it's easier. But it also compliments like Cosmos. It's also something that is coming from Cosmos and we're going to see a lot of blockchains in the Cosmos ecosystem, deploying roll apps for themselves while the dimension hub is in the background.
Is that a fair comparison? Like dimension, not that you just mentioned the hub, is dimension like Cosmos hub and then you have all these different roll apps running on dimension tech, just like all these different app chains are running on Cosmos tech. Yeah, I think so.
You know, I think Cosmos Hub and you know the Cosmos SDK and Tundum and it's just it's an amazing technology. It's an amazing technology that was built, you know, by these hardworking people and I have so much appreciation for them. I just think that
If I were to kind of put dimension hub in terms of Cosmos hub is that dimension hub is kind of a power source. It's kind of an energy source for these chains. Well, Cosmos hub is more of an instance in the network, which values sovereignty a lot.
And it's a lot of values and a lot of tech coming into one place. I would say the differentiation point between Cosmosub and Dimension Hub is that Dimension Hub is needed in the tech side of things.
Yeah, make sense. And you mentioned also obviously people need to invest in actually making this happen. Things don't get shipped just by sleeping in your bed. You have to work hard towards actually making it a reality. But what kind of projects would you like to
see what kind of things would you like to see happen and getting built on dimension. Obviously you guys have been working with the ephemus and the eithomen team for the EVM roll up, but if you could choose a dream, if you will, what would you like to see on build on dimension?
Yeah, that's a great question. I didn't mention something that's coming up soon. So on this testnet, we're going to deploy-- I would say it's not that we're going to deploy-- it's a Dow, which is the matchbox Dow, on-chain gaming. Dow is going to deploy a roll-up app
Playground roll up to have on-chain gaming live. This is something that's very cool that I've been seeing that there's going to be a lot of on-chain gaming which revolves around betting, which is a big part of
So we're going to have a matchbox role
up pretty soon with incentives for developers who are able to use this roll up to act as if it was a centralized server because it has 0.2 second latency you can actually build games on top of it and this is something that's you know it can't be
done anywhere else. This is the truth. It's very hard to find a working system today and there's a lot of builders out there but it's very hard to find a working system today that you can deploy your own chain and have the security guarantees that that mentioned brings and keep that latency.
So we're gonna see on-chain games a lot of I would say financial on-chain games So there's a lot of a kind of competition and centers in that realm We're gonna do a lot of high frequency exchanges. We're gonna see some I would say cool stuff with a final with bond
And that's both the beauty of it and the complexity with it. It's also why I wanted to ask
you what kind of protest you would like to see because really anything can be built on dimension it sounds like. So yeah. It's more like plugging in, you know, it's more like you can build anything and then you plug it into the dimension hub to get liquidity and decentralization and security. So
It's like, what can't you build? You can build everything. I know there are some cool use cases and builders right now that I've been talking to, SoRChain, which does kind of a data marketplace for vehicles.
There's a lot of innovation in places like Helium if you know. It's just going to be exciting to see the builders once we have a lot of the infrastructure ready which is very hard because on one side you can say, you know, we want to get as much builders as we can but the system is
not completely ready for them to build on. So you have to have it gradually. Things aren't going to come instantly. We're trying to conquer the Everest. We're going to go hill by hill until we get there, but we're going to get there, and we're going to build it right.
Yeah, these things take time, right? We actually tweeted out a brief Cosmos history overview today a few hours ago and you can just see like some of the milestones that we list in that tweet. There's a limit to how much we can put in just one tweet, but I mean Cosmos dates back to 2014.
right? It took quite some time to get where we are today. But now the network effects are working to customer's advantage, just like you mentioned with Ethereum. So it will take time also with dimension. It's natural. It's not a signal that you're on to the wrong thing or you're failing or anything.
It's just like these things take time. It would definitely take time, but it would take a lot less time than you could imagine with the scope of this project. Because dimension is kind of building something that's
So, Ethereum right now wants to start the data, right? So, this is what we get when you have modularity and you can choose a chain to put the data on on customers. Ethereum has a roll-lapse connecting via smart contracts, which is an issue. It's a big issue, and I mentioned solves that. But we get that a lot because of the
the Cosmos SDK and a lot because of the diligent and hardworking people of Cosmos. So it's like an evolution where you would take existing working, battle tested systems, you would reassemble a lot of them, you would visualize a different stacked
and you would implement it so it would be pragmatically in place to achieve, you know, to get to a place where it works and it's not just, okay, saying, "Oh, it takes a lot of time." That's easy, everybody's saying, "It takes a lot of time, but, you know, let's hype everybody, let's do the token and do everything and not deliver anything."
And always say it's a time that's bullshit. No, we deliver but we do it in a gradual way that is with reality Exactly and that's why I want to compare you guys to customers You said that it might be an unfair thing, but I think actually there's a lot of parallels to how
also they were building for a long time and only in 2019 I think it was they launched the atom token and you guys are doing something similar you guys have been working super hard you've been building and launching stuff not just on a piece of paper but in production with for example the first ever IPC enabled in
time. Time. Fair enough. Whatever you can share, feel free to share. If you can't share anything, feel free to just show your mouth and say moving on. But yeah, we have to ask you, what's up with the dime token? And yeah, is there anything you can share about that basically?
Yeah, of course, I think, you know, it's important. Like the token is important. It's the kind of a part of the network. It's a chunk. It's a share of the network effect that Dimension will have. And of course, it's making people excited and this is what makes crypto exciting. You know, you want that you
want to have you want to hold it you want to have the sovereignty to say okay I'm part of this and you know if it grows I'm growing with it so of course it's something that we should talk about and it's not something that we should say no I'm not talking about the token that's going to be hypocrite like this it's it's crypto is not just about technology it's
about game theory, it's about economics, and this is a huge part of it. So the Diantoken is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is#
So like a lot of you guys, or if you haven't noticed, you know, we're putting in a lot of time in the way we build. We also put a lot of time in the dime token and the dimension economics. So it's a huge thing. We haven't shared almost anything about it.
I sometimes talk about it a little bit, but it's very cool. I would say if you are looking at it from an economic perspective, it is kind of pointed or directed to be a sustainable
economy where if you look at Ethereum today, you see that there is people who are paying fees, there's people who are staking, and you have this offsetting of inflation, right? Where the system itself kind of has equity
So the people who are paying for fees and the fees get burnt and the people who are getting inflation, staking, it's kind of offsetting it to zero, even deflation kind of realms according to usage. So the dimension I'm talking is
is similar to that where roll up deploys bond dime or LP of dime or even their own token but state updates cost dynamically and those state updates get burned. So the more roll ups you have the more
And there's a lot of incentives and other market forces that are in place. You can see a network effect where you are burning down. And this is something that's crucial because on one side you have people who are staking who are basically providing security.
These are the supplies providing security, but there's also demand. People who are using people who want to take that security, who need that security, and they're paying for that. So the vision is to create a system where there is equilibrium between the two.
And this is very important. And just this is kind of a general node. But like on the specific side of things that I mentioned hub will have an AMM. So there is a lot of liquidity that's going to get kind of very
sticky on the dimension hub and with the dimension token. So if you want to move from roll up A to roll up B to roll up C, it's very fluid to use the dimension token through the hub AMM.
But there's a lot of factors, you know, talking like really quick on the economics is it's very hard. I'm sorry. It's it's it's a big subject. But what we need to keep in mind is we saw what happens with the coast and it's changed right now.
We think that high inflation and block tax in the customer's ecosystem is just ruining the coins. It's bad. So hopefully we'll fix that with a much more reasonable, responsible token.
in economics. It almost sounds like a real yield to me that you guys are aiming for similar to what Kajira is doing and many other protocols and tokens at this point. Is that where you guys are getting at when you talk about sustainability, etc?
I wouldn't say yes of course, but
Like it's not I would look at it more from a from a country point of view So if the country is growing and the economy is growing. It's good to have inflation It doesn't have to be like real yield so which in this scenario with would imply that dimension is becoming
So there is room for it to change and to move dynamically, but it is demand based. And it's important to have it demand based. It can be, okay, the staking is whatever 100 APR and the developers get 25% of the block
block and you would expect the coin to go up. No, it's not going to go up because you're printing too much money which doesn't have enough demand and you're kind of making this, you're not looking at it from an economic perspective. And maybe the
real yield thing is good for like specific products but I mentioned it's bigger than that it's more how to create a country or a network state so it can expand it can expand and say okay we're gonna use like the first year for inflation a little bit more we're gonna use it
to attract role of developers, right? We want to attract role of developers and we're going to spend a lot of kind of marketing treasury for it, but we expect it to be very sticky in the future. If the mention can power the network state that Palaji is talking
about having a home on Twitter and whatnot for some time now. If the magic can be powering that network state on network states, that will be super awesome man. That will be super cool. You guys should connect with Balachi and say, "Hey, we got a solution for you man."
I would say there's a lot of contenders. There's a lot of people who want an operative with their tech. But yeah, I think we share kind of similar emotives and it might have a lot of synergy.
Definitely, definitely. It's going to be exciting to see how this all plays out. But Ijia, I know your busy man, I know your team is head-stound building and shipping, like there's no tomorrow. Is there anything you want to leave the community with today? Is there something you want us to do? Is there anything you want us to do?
I think we left out. How do you want to close this thing off? I think, you know, first of all, thank you for everybody who came out and listened and thank you for the dimension community is really growing now. In terms of asking
just keep the support up, you know, be more than just people who want to get like incentives but be, you know, work for it as well. Like, we're building something, we're building an ecosystem together. Be ready to say, okay, I'm gonna put in my work in this, I'm gonna make it bigger
and bigger and hopefully I'll get treated fairly and it'll become something that's close to my heart. On a different note, keep on with the memes, keep on with the good vibes, it's important. You know, shouldn't take ourselves too seriously. And yeah, I think that's
That's kind of it for people who are waiting for incentivized tests and that hopefully it's going to be worth waiting and it's going to be pretty cool. So think of creative ways how to shine out and how to become something that stands out in the crowd
And maybe before you know it, there will be a meme coin launching on Dimension. Who knows? Keep it fun, it's part of Grip though. Keep the good vibes and yeah.
Definitely man. Alright, well thank you so much for coming on today. I'm sure this is not going to be the last time we hear from you guys. We will make sure at least here at the club to follow you guys closely and see what you guys are shipping.
Keep on the good work, man. It's a pleasure to see. - Yeah, thanks for having me. Hopefully we'll have another call when Manette is shipped. - I'm sure we will, definitely, man. All right, take care. - Bye-bye. - Ciao.