Cosmos Club with Eclipse

Recorded: June 14, 2023 Duration: 0:36:10

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Hello everyone and welcome to the club. Sorry about the delay, that is on me. I was stuck in traffic on my way home. But I think we got Veronica with us from Eclipse. You can see the speaker icon or this is on mute. It was on mute Veronica.
Hey, hey, I'm here. How are you? Beautiful. I'm good. Sorry about keeping you waiting there, but yeah, patience is a virtue, isn't it? No worries at all. So where are you tuning in from today? Are you based in the States? Yeah, I'm calling
I'm hearing Copenhagen, Sunday Copenhagen, but man traffic was crap today. Anyways, anyways. Alright, I can see people are starting to tune in, so let's just do the intro and then
And obviously people can re-listen. We upload all these spaces to Spotify and all the other podcasting platforms. So welcome everyone to the Cosmos Club where we tweet all things Cosmos, we talk about what's going on in the Cosmos ecosystem. And then we invite interesting, fascinating, hardworking builders to
spaces like these. And today Veronica, thank you so much for coming. Veronica from Eclipse, welcome to the club. Thank you. So let's just start perhaps with a little bit of personal background. People in Cosmos in particular, I feel, but crypto also in general, they come from all walks
of life. I mean, some people are obviously very financial, some people are highly technical. Recently, I hosted a space here at the club with someone that was a chemical engineer. That was a first for me to hear. So yeah, who is Veronica and how did you end up working on the clips? Yeah, I can just give you kind of a while.
through what I've done. I would say definitely not a chemical engineer, but in terms of my background I started in crypto I would say personally around 2017 and then had an opportunity to start off at a fund where I was
I was mostly on the financial side helping them out for investing at a quantum mental fund. I kind of had an interesting path. I would say I started off there. It was definitely on the institutional side. I worked at a fund. I went to a smaller DeFi execution show.
up and then I actually had a brief sit at BlockFi and right before I joined a Cliffs, I was at a data provider called the Tie, which was an institutional data provider, where most of my career before Cliffs, I was definitely more on the institutional but fun related
DC related side where I got to speak to a lot of those. But coming from a smaller startup when I was at Skullin which is the TFI Trade Execution Shop, I definitely enjoyed working on more of an infrastructure project and discovered throughout the way that TFI or anything really financially related wasn't really what
spoke to me. I started off understanding that Dream College set blockchain technology would definitely change the world, but really, you know, investing financial products weren't it for me and I was looking to go to a pure infrastructure shop. So that's how I came across a cliff and I really enjoyed the fact that working at a cliff so you could be
very much vertical gnostic in the beginning, a kind of caters to so many different spaces given that it's just pure blockchain infrastructure. I personally really enjoyed actually video games as I was when I was smaller. So going to a company that first when I was doing it was focusing on a lot of gaming projects but lots of not specific
I was working on one game. It seemed interesting and with my background in the institutional space, I felt that I could poke around different sectors and figure out how we could leverage blockchain technology to improve sectors that are more, I would say, Web 2, Web 2.5 as well.
Definitely super excited to be at eclipse. What I currently do at eclipse is I am our institutional BD lead. I currently work with a lot of our Enterprise clients think of us as think of the clients that I work with you know a lot of decentralized physical infrastructure network a lot of products
privacy networks, a lot of L1s and even Web.2.0 enterprises that are looking to understand how blockchain technology works and how we could better help them either build out their supply chain infrastructure or even just gain some sort of access to blockchain technology.
beautiful. Sorry, I was unmute just there for a second, but very very interesting backgrounds. There's some there's a lot of things to unpack there and obviously we want to zoom in and unpack clips in particular, but I have to ask how was your experience with
with BlockFi. It was one of the institutions or one of the companies that got into the wildfire after the last DeFi summer. So I think I just got to ask, how was your experience there? I think my experience there was really good. I actually got out before the storm hit. I would say it was a really interesting
things for me in the sense that I wanted to go somewhere that was a little more retail focused, given that I was working with a lot of institutions to see if there was anything I could learn from there in terms of speaking to retail focused clients, even understanding how to better
grasp the concept of mass adoption, right? Since the one thing that I really believe in is that the blitz barrier entry right now for crypto is still a little high. I feel like the crypto bubble is still massive whenever I'm in New York. There's a very strong crypto community. Speaking to them, it feels very different than when I go home or I speak to some
of my friends who have really no idea what is going on in the crypto sense. So I would say, you know, I learned a lot of things there and it was, it was really helpful. Makes sense, makes sense. Yeah, I just have to ask. I mean, it's one of those names that we all
know about today, after the whole blow-up of many institutions, it's crazy to think about it. Now with the SEC coming out to Coinbase and Biden as US, who knows what's going to happen now, right? Under all the scrutiny that's going to come from the SEC and other
the legislators. But let's focus on the clips. This is the topic of today of course. So for those who haven't been paying much attention, we had you guys on before. So anyone who wants to also sort of refer back to where you were a few months from now and until today. But for
Anyone out there who hasn't been paying much attention to Eclipse, talk to us about what Eclipse is and what you're trying to accomplish. >> Yeah, so just kind of a highlight more on what Eclipse is. Eclipse is a role-up as a service provider. And what we do is we help developers deploy really customized actions.
for their projects without worrying about infrastructure security and reliability. What we do, we can start off with what are some of the problems in blockchain technology or architecture.
change, try a lot, right? We always have to think about the three aspects of that, which is scalability, decentralization, and throughput as well. So when you think about that, whenever we try to maximize one of those angles, we also kind of fail or have to promote any of the two other angles. But we really thought at a click
that, hey, what's the way we can go about to build some sort of infrastructure so that application developers can go ahead and build whatever it is that the dream of without having to make any trade-offs. So that's kind of how Eclipse came about and what we do is we
We really, we build these module rule of that help the developer's leverage either specific security or specific security features and customization whilst enabling them to get security from any data availability later that they would like.
Damn, I did it again. I forgot to unmute. How does that compare to all the other sort of ecosystems that's starting to build on top and try to scale? So the first people that comes to mind is dimension, obviously celestial.
this whole modularity narrative that's coming into play here. So how do you guys see yourself really in this space? Yeah for sure. I think so you mentioned some names so that if we start off this last year right where I guess just kind of for everyone to understand that currently in terms of
like blockchain architecture, a lot of them are monolithic, which means that they, like let's say Solana or Ethereum, right? All of the nodes are running on them. They all currently do every single layer or I would say step of, you know, transaction on blockchain, whether that be the data storage on the data availability layer.
or the consensus mechanism as well for security, the settlement, which is where you verified the transaction and the execution, which is where the transactions have been. So all of that currently still runs on, for let's say like Ethereum or Solana, everything runs through that specific blockchain. And when we've seen what we've seen is that when
that happened, then we kind of go back into that whole blockchain tri-level. So because of that, a lot of these projects, like Celestion, I mentioned, have discovered that if you just focus on one part of those three layers, then you'll be able to maximize what you're really good at, and you'll be able to kind of help out in terms of the tri-level. So Celestion, for instance,
We were really closely with them. We were actually part of their modular fellows program and they are a data availability solution. So what they do is they solely do data storage, but we are actually built on top of them. So what that means is usually if you were a roll up and you were built on top of the Ethereum, you would actually
actually be fighting for data space or data storage or slash block space with all the other projects that are built on top of them. But if you go with Celeste, you'd be able to just to use one of their millions and millions of blocks base. So you're not anymore fighting for that which means that in terms of transaction speeds, for instance, you wouldn't have to pay
for a lot of that when there's higher congestion, et cetera. So I think a lot of these players in the modern-less space have understood that by focusing on one aspect and building and picking the best of every layer, you're able to build an infrastructure that is so much better than what's available right now.
Awesome, awesome. So yeah, that's, I mean, it's great to see this whole narrative coming to life really. It's a lot of potential and as you say, we need to solve scalability. I mean, if we are to truly
the next generation of builders and users, etc. We're not going to be able to do that on a monolithic architecture. That's for sure. L2s, I mean sure, there's benefits, but yeah, it just doesn't seem like it's going to be the next Facebook, the next Instagram, the
next TikTok whatever, it's going to be built on an L2. So yeah, it's great to see new architectures, modularity really being possible in Web 3. Right now when you build in Web 2.0 for example, you build typically with a microservice setup or architecture.
and this is somewhat similar what eclipse last year and all you guys are really pushing here but the last time we spoke for those that didn't tune in we talked a lot about cascade which was a big theme you just announced it the first is
B.M. Rollup powered by Injective and Eclipse. Talk to us about how it's been, how it's gone with Cascades and where you're heading with that from here. Yeah, for sure. So we're super, super excited about what's going on with Cascade. The last time we had spoken, they hadn't longed yet. They currently
have launched in our Intestnet and we've been working really closely with them. I will say that last week at the Svalon Hacker House, they had a second, they had a workshop where they actually went over at least in gold. Update related to what's been going on with cascaded, one of the really interesting things was that they actually got
which is the Bonk-Emi coin's Dex to deploy on Injective, which is really a huge step for energy and collaboration since Bonk has such a huge community/visibility in the Solana ecosystem, right? And I would say one of the main things at that is
is that Solana projects are so much more composable in cost bonus now by cooperating with IBC, which is also a huge feature that I'd like to focus on since we technically add eclipse are working on IBC to be connected to every single eclipse chain right now.
every single chain on a clip will be able to communicate with any other chains through our IBC connection. So in terms of that, you know, Cascade is really our golden child right now that's really illustrating how we can push for interoperability in the blockchain space.
I think just to help the listener here because there's a lot of players involved in this whole roll-up technology, if we focus on cascade for now, there's obviously Injective, there's the Solana ecosystem, there's Eclipse, and then you mentioned Bunk. Bunk is the
dark dark dark and like those coin also not if I'm not mistaken and can you just maybe is an on-fell question here but can you try to guide us through like all these moving pieces how how do they come together with with eclipse technology yeah for sure so injective is a cosmos
base L1 and they are a G5 focus blockchain built on Cosmos. So what they're very known for is that they currently have a lot of projects. They have, I believe, higher liquidity than Solana and one thing that they were looking for is, hey, how can we
communicate, incorporate with more project that are outside of our ecosystem, right? And that's something that was previously never possible given that there was there is a difference in programming language, et cetera, you're kind of anchor to your ecosystem at the moment. Let's say if we just exit the cosmos ecosystem, a lot of other
EGAS is somewhat with a theorem. Everything is coded in solidity. On Solano, everything is coded in Rush. So if you wanted to interact with any types of other ecosystem, you would have to change your entire code base. There's also a lot of back-end infrastructure with wallets, block explorers, indexers, and all of those are very
unique to their ecosystem. So the way a Clifch plugs in is the fact that, you know, if you do deploy a roll up through Clifch, everything happens on a Clifch. All of the transactions are settled on a Clifch, but you can post that data anywhere that you would like in terms of data availability option. So that means think of us, I guess, but
easiest way to think of us is as Lego blocks. So if you were a Lego tower and you wanted to change to a different color, let's say that ecosystems are color coded right now, it's just not possible, like the puzzle pieces, which is not fit. But thanks to the eclipse infrastructure, you're actually able to kind of build on top of each other.
So specifically with cascades, which is a Solana virtual machine roll-up, so everything is coated in rust with Solana based wallets. They're actually built on top of Injective, which is a cosmosly or we kind of help enable that Interoperable architecture to be built out. So given that now this cascades
Solana Virtual Machine growl up is built up with a complete Solana user interface that looks exactly like Solana. A lot of these projects are in the Solana ecosystem. They're actually able to deploy on this roll up and access whatever community that they're built, that the roll up is
built on. So for instance in this case, Bonsino, which is basically the dogecoin of the Solana ecosystem, they've actually deployed on Cascade and because Cascade is connected to Injectives through IPC connection, which is the cost of the bridge, they're actually able to interact with Injective itself.
And that's huge in one sense because before this no salon projects were really able to interact so closely with any other ecosystem in some shape or form. And right now I would see like the really really main thing about this entire interchain collaboration is that given that there's so much liquidity on
Injective and cosmos now bonk inu, which is the bonk inu has a swap or a dex that equal bonk swap they're actually able to now integrate with the injective liquidity. So yeah
I think because of the synergy, it's so much more than can be apparent right now. As we see this kind of get built out, we'll see that this is going to be really huge in the way we think of the future of finance, since we're kind of still in an exploits
space in crypto, right? And we want to see finance be built out in so many different ways. And right now this is just kind of giving kind of that blank slate with so many opportunities for anybody to explore more synergies.
beautiful. Well done Veronica. That was not an easy question, but you nailed it, I think. And just to bring it home, bringing in one of the community questions from Vivek, who is asking about security, borrowing security from top chains as people
they could say in this case, I guess top chains would mean the objective and Solana. So how does the bank, or perhaps the eclipse roll up? How does that borrow or rent security? How is this a secure basically with the value set? Yeah, so I was right now.
the case case rule up is leveraging IBC security and also the sequencers that are run but I know that right now it's still a centralized sequencer. Injective is also looking into the shared sequencers model where they'll
be able to decentralize that and gather more security as well. But as of right now, there's a lot of security through IVC and the shared sequencer that they run. I'd like to say that as of right now, the CAST-GYRULIP is also still in testnet, so they're still figuring out the kinks of that.
I see, I see. I mean, this is a new territory in general, the whole roll-up space, modularity, modular blockchain space is very new and nascent, but truly exciting stuff. And on that subject, actually, where do you see this modularity future
and go from here. I mean, obviously there's things in production now. We start seeing things coming live or on Testnet at least. But is this how blockchains will be built in the future? How do you see this unfold basically? Yeah, for sure. I feel like now that we
We've been a couple years into crypto. We've seen that some models work in some dough and the beginning my life blockchains made sense. But as more projects are building, there's definitely new sectors that are being explored and kind of going back to the whole moral as to why you know traditional robots don't really work in a sense. We have some right now.
built on a theorem, let's say like Arbitrum and I think it's a really beautiful model, right? But right now some of the big projects there are, that's a GMX, right? The decks and the swap and leverage platform. But you know, if I was a game and I was a fully-onching game wanting to build on a rule of like Arbitrum, some of the features there
are really specific for app, they're not specific at all, right? I think the Arbitra model wears very much for DeFi products, but hey, you're a game, or even like a social fire or even metaverse platform, there just isn't that throughput, or in terms of, you know, economic constraints, gas is really expensive if you're built on Ethereum, if you want it to leverage
security, they're just, is it like you can't do it? You can't use a rule up that is one size fits all. So kind of in this concept of modularity, I believe that as more projects start building in crypto, they'll be wanting something that's very specific to their needs. So I think everybody is kind of alive.
But this concept of modularity and in the future we'll see that so many different projects want very very specific customization with things that I'll say like I'd eclipse for some of the projects that I'm working with some of them want like KYC features or like compliance features even privacy features as I work with some of the bigger web to enterprise
even banks, they don't want this whole concept of like permissionless block gains because at the end of the day with the regulatory landscape that we're in, that's just not something that they're able to kind of work with because they'll be slapped with a lot of problems in a sense. So I believe that modularity is really the future and
And you know, with the last year kind of leading the charge and coining that term, we see so many competitors to them popping up. And yeah, I mean, that's definitely where everyone's going to be going. We'll be, I think that we'll see a lot of people decide that building their own personal role up will be the way to go and hopefully in two to three years, we'll see more and more.
That's horrible. That's good. Right on. You mentioned games a few times. Now I noticed is that a focus of yours is that I game by gaming on web 3. Roll ups in this case blockchains. Is that is that a core focus of eclipse or is it just by coincidence?
because you are a gamer. It seems like you yourself, you are passionate about games. Yeah, so it is in some shape, or form a main focus of art because at the end of the day, the purpose of the rollup, right? We started off with, you know, added through, but the way we work is that we started off with working with the salon of virtual machine in a sense because
because of the parallel execution of the virtual machine, thereby enhancing the throughput. Because that is just one of the main constraints that you see whilst building on any of the other L ones. And what are some of the projects that are having problems with that? It's games. Like when we talk about games, kind of the traditional games,
When you play something like Legend of Zelda or anything you're able to play for hours and kind of lose yourself because there's all these side quests and whatever but right now I actually went to GDC which is a gaming conference in SF and tried out a lot of these newer web-through games and there just isn't as much complexity to them and when I asked them hey
what's the reason for that. They said we just don't have any type of blockchain architecture that supports that. So that's kind of what we had started off with gaming and we saw that there was a massive need for better throughput and more customization, but also the ability to go cross-chain for a lot of these games. A lot of these games, you know, a lot of their developers may come
from more of a traditional web to background and they see all of these newer ecosystem that say, "Hey, we have a lot of games with us, like come build with us and when they start building there." Then before Eclipse, there was always this problem where it's like, "Oh, like we built on this blockchain and now we can't move anywhere." But now with Eclipse, because you're technically built on
us as a roll up and we aren't really tied to any of the ecosystem, you're able to kind of switch data availability or L1 layers at your choosing if you started off with one and you didn't like the community or you thought it was too expensive, you now have the ability to switch. So gaming has been kind of a core focus for us, I personally
just enjoy working with the games, but also, you know, I do most of our institutional stuff, so we have somebody else doing gaming, but more of a personal interest, but still a main focus is the best way to put it. Makes sense. So someone that has worked with institutional finance and games, it's an interesting combo.
that you have there. But let's talk about the roadmap then. Let's talk about how you guys are rolling up new features on you, roll-ups in the coming weeks, months, years, pick your poison really here. I mean you have the SVM, roll-up, the cascade
which is on test that right now and you will go live with that at some point. I'm sure I'm made that. But I'm sure there's all other things on the road map as well. Yeah, so I know I've been talking a lot about SVM, but we actually also have EBM. So the roadmap is to kind of go into this one stop shop, roll up as a service provider where you'll be able to go
And you know some sort of this is kind of leaked alpha but some sort of a self service option so you'll be able to come onto our website, pick which virtual machine you want which in-house features you'd like and we'd be able to spin up the rule up for you. So yeah, right now we have EVM and SCM looking to add a lot more version.
machine, probably the move the M after, but you know exploring a lot of other ones. The IBC connection will really be huge as well working on that right now, but all of the chains will be IBC enabled. You'll be able to interact with other chains. And yeah, I think that's really what's on our road map. And I think self service will be really
huge for anybody that's looking to spin up a chain fast. You just casually kind of drops a mouth out there. Let's back up a bit. Like if you, what you describe sounds so simple. I go on a website, I choose whatever ecosystem
on chain, I want to spin up a roll up on EVM, SVM, basically choose whatever you want. And then boom, it just like, is that it? Like there must be more steps than that. That's just too simple. It sounds like. Well, I think there are more steps for that, but that's something that happens on the back. And with us, because you know,
We are also in testnet right now and one of the main things I work with as well is L1 integration. So we launched, you know, an SVM role for Injective. We are launching one for Polygon. We're launching one for a few of the other major L1s. So what we're doing during that process is also integrating them as a data
availability layer. So after that is integrated for you guys as a user on the front end when you do on the web that you will actually be able just to kind of pick. So if we have them integrated, you'll be able to pick which data availability layer or L1 you want to kind of have exposure with and also pull security from. And I would say
The actual deployment of the rollup doesn't take that long. It's mostly these integrations that we do on the backend, but that's what the testnet is here for at the moment. And the, you know, we're aiming for kind of like end of Q3 early Q4 for mainnet as of right now. So by then everything will already be built out and I'll be very easy for you to
pick whichever settings you want and have the role of be deployed. One thing as well, one of our test-up partners actually is that they're a payments platform and they have a SBM role of through that's called the Nautilus chain. That's going to be going into main list in the coming month as well so anybody who would like can play around with it.
This is just so exciting. I mean, the amount of innovation that I can just foresee happen when it's so accessible and so easy to spin up rollups. I mean, it's this incredible, right? It almost reminds me as the first time I've been building websites and apps, mobile apps.
for a long time. And I remember the first time, you know, something like Wix, a Weebly, or whatever the call square space where you could just create a website, you know, track and drop, easy, right? Or WordPress. It was a game changer. It almost sounds like the same. It sounds similar at least what you guys are aiming at. Yeah, exactly. You want to make it really easy.
for people to spin up roll ups as I was saying in the beginning I think that you know the barrier of entry right now for crypto is too high. There's so much education that needs to happen so the easier we can make it for anybody to really work on that is really the path that we're looking to take.
That's a big endeavor right there. So let's talk about perhaps Dream a bit. If we sort of go way beyond the coming months or perhaps years and go like 10 years from now, 15 years from now, 20 maybe even.
And that's a you sit on your front porch or wherever you comfortable Veronica and looking back at what you have built and executed on with with eclipse. What would make your you know smile through your teeth and sort of say to yourself 20 years from now like okay this is exactly what we set out to
to build, how would the eclipse look like 20 years from now, let's say? Yeah, so I think for me, like the craziest assumption I could have for eclipse rate is that I'm a very big component of mass adoption, so I don't actually want
people to know that they're using a clips. I want crypto to be integrator of blockchain technology so much into our daily lives that it becomes normal. For Maya and I'll be able to see like, hey, it's really awesome that all of these projects or even like web two enterprises are using a clips as the
technology that they decided to go with to really leverage blockchain tech. But, you know, so being able to see a cliff being built out on the back end for all types of projects, not just financial projects, but really any, really verticals of technology would be really huge.
Awesome. And I think you guys are on your way to be quite honest. Just listening to you and what you guys are already doing with Cascade of course, but also aiming at doing. It's just a clear vision. It sounds like just listening to you. So if you just continue having that
laser focus, I think this could actually happen right? Yeah, thank you so much. I think especially being on a cosmos spaces right now, if any other cosmos chains are looking to access any other types of ecosystem or have more interoperable features, feel free to reach out to me as well.
that that be a shout out to all the customers change listening now or really listening afterwards. Speaking of customers obviously being the customers club that's our core focus. How do you see customers as a technology of course the customer stack but also the ecosystem being a paramount
to building what you set out to build in the coming years. Yeah, so what I really respect and enjoy from the Cosmos ecosystem is really this ethos that all the Cosmos chains are very much self-sought and chains that you are in the art of inventing blood.
It's really much as blank slate. I think there's a lot more customization that's enabled or even possible in cost most. So the one thing that I've been mentioning is the IVC integration. Integrating something like IVC on Ethereum would be incredibly hard. You'd have to update so many different
upcoats versus on cosmos because of the way the architecture is designed. It's so much easier for us to implement such things. So because of that, I'm hoping that we'll be able to build out a lot more features that we haven't even discovered yet, right? But we'll be able to come
of push for this blank canvas type of scene where we'll be able to test out any features that anybody that comes to us will be able to implement those. So really excited to be working closely with the Cosmos ecosystem in that sense.
And we look forward to work with you too. This is growing. We've been around for at least officially as an account for almost a year now. And it's just marvelous to see all these different ideas coming to life. I mean, obviously
the Cosmos hub, finding its place in the Cosmos universe with the Replicating Security. There's just mesh security. There's just so many things that was just on the drawing board not too long ago and it's actually getting executed on not just on a testnet, but of course first on a testnet, but also on maintenance.
It's just incredible to see really just following closely on a day-to-day basis. But Veronica, this has been an absolute pleasure to have you on a very, very, very inspirational and informative. Is there anything you want to leave the community with today, or perhaps ask the community to do? You already mentioned, if you are a customer's chain.
talk to your clips, but is there anything else we can do as a community? Yeah, for sure. I think the one thing that's for me, it's like where everybody is always in this R&D stage. If there's anything that you guys are working on, what are some of this coming from more of an infrastructure provider? What are some of the barriers
or the blockers that are hitting you at the moment that you wish you could solve because at the end of the day our entire motto is we want you to build the app of your dreams whilst we kind of deal with the more boring back-and-blogging infrastructure. So if there's anything that you want to build that you can't right now with the current architecture please let me know what it is.
we can start incorporating those features and then maybe one day we can work together. Make sense. Veronica, thank you so much for coming on the club today. I'm sure this is not the last time we have a conversation or hear from Eclipse. So Godspeed, all the best for you guys over there. Yeah, thank you so much.
Take care, everyone.