Hello everyone and welcome to the club. We should be right back with you. Nico from FMOS is coming online. So stay tuned guys. Don't sit tight. Don't leave us. Nico is on his way.
Hello everyone, I believe Nico is with us now. I just invited you to speak Nico. So you should see the invite. If not, you can just request to speak maybe. Sometimes that works better here. Welcome to the club, everyone.
Hey there. Hey, Nigo. Can folks hear me? Okay. I hear you loud and clear. So I assume everybody else does also. Perfect. Yeah. And I'm seeing that about 100 emojis come in as well. So, uh,
for sure, that's good to see. Yeah, yeah, I think we all set. So thank you so much for joining Nico and welcome to the club. Do you know about Cosmos Club already or do you want me to give a quick intro? Yeah, I've seen you folks around ecosystem. I think I maybe
We listened in on a few spaces in the past, but would love to get the full story if you don't mind here. Yeah, of course. Actually, we rarely do that. But I think today is actually a great time to talk a little bit about
Cosmos Club and how we came about because we are a few guys who have been in the Ethereum ecosystem for quite some time since 2017, like most other people when they started tapping into blockchain, I think a lot of people, especially the developers, they did that with Ethereum back then.
in 17. So yeah, I've been building and deploying a bunch of different apps for since the past six years, I guess. And started to see how the Ethereum ecosystem at this in our view became very sort of serous on game almost.
We were working for example on a lending and borrowing market and it was almost like every conference that we went to and every time we engaged with the community It was almost like okay in this corner. There's all the lending and borrowing markets and they have to fight each other for liquidity right and over here you got all the taxes and they have to fight for the clear it was almost like okay
Okay, let's see who wins and because we're all fighting for the same liquidity, for example. But when we first, we knew about Cosmos and the Cosmos ecosystem and all that stuff, but didn't pay much attention until, yeah, probably until I BC started really getting traction and just started to
interact with the community and it was just a whole different vibe that we experienced and still do. People were very much like cheering each other on, everybody loved whenever more people came to the ecosystem, it was very much like not a series on game.
helping each other out to expand the customer's ecosystem. And that was just very liberating. We just loved that and started to pay more attention to customers. And at some point we just wanted to start engaging with the community more and create a Twitter account at the Customs Club.
and interact with founders and builders in the Cosmos ecosystem. So yeah, very much Ethereum background and when fall on Cosmos, which I think is a very good segue to EVMOS. Super, yeah, I mean, you know, the EVMOS community I think has come to
love and appreciate various aspects of both the theory and the cosmos ecosystem so totally totally see where you're coming from there beautiful but let's just dive right in Nico but before we talk about F must too much perhaps we can start talking about you and how you became
and Devmas Builder and started working on Devmas. Talk to us about Nico and your background story. Sure, yeah. So I got into the space back in 2017, 2016, 2017.
their bouts, which is actually where I met my co-founders as well. And from there, we all gained experience building smart contracts in the Ethereum world, building DAPs, teaching others how to build DAPs
as well. And so from there, luckily we were all based in the San Francisco Bay area, which is where cosmos got its start too. So a lot of the cosmos co-founders, you know, J. Kwan.
Yeah, a lot of the folks who were working on it at the time like Gazzaki and Jack Zampolin, they were all based out of cosmos and I also knew Sonny and David the time who were early to cosmos as well. So cosmos had always kind of been in the periphery and we were cosmos-filled
very early on, you know, the idea of the app chains, you know, that it was something that the folks there were talking about at the time, IBC was something that folks were really excited about at the time, proof of stake as well. And this is, you know, again, 2016, 2017 to paint a picture for you. Nobody back then was talking about proof of stake. It was still a very
early concept. So I think like people may have been ideating on what the merge on what E2.0 would look like at the time. It's not called that anymore. But people were excited about that. But Cosmos was building it. Right? Yeah.
And Etherment was actually also a project at the time that the community was working on there. So Etherment was meant to be a peg zone between Ethereum and Cosmos. So it was literally meant to be a version of Ethereum with the same state and everything as Ethereum had
the time but forked into a cosmos SDK chain. That was the idea. Basically, you would recreate a theorem but running on top of a tendermint and with proof of stake instead of proof of work. This would be a very
cool concept for the time. Unfortunately, nobody ended up launching it back in 2016 and '17. And I think by 2018 there was like a version two of Etherment. And then later on is when I think Federico, one of my co-founders whom I mentioned,
In 2021, you know, kind of got frustrated that nobody else had been able to launch Ethanman and just decided to request the funding from the Cosmos hub community pool and do it himself. And that's where I came on board. And again, maybe like after four
I think it's four or five years after meeting Federico is when we joined forces alongside my other co-founder, Kosh, to bring Etherment to life in the form you've heard you know in Leptheday called Ephemus. The vision itself
know, it has expanded a little bit. EVMOS is no longer just an ethereum on cosmos. It's in a way more optimized to do things that cosmos folks have come used to doing, things like off Z and whatnot. And also the vision has evolved to
basically push forward the envelope of what's possible with cross-chain smart contracts. But I'm sure we'll get to all that. You asked me about myself.
Yeah. Why do you think just a quick follow up? Why do you think it took four years for you guys to pick up the baton? Like why didn't anybody do that in the meantime during the event? Do you think?
Yeah, I don't think necessarily that we were the only ones who could have done it. I'm not going to say, I think we're a fairly strong engineering team, but I wouldn't say we were better or worse engineers than the folks who were working on it at the time. I think really what it came down to is
Prioritization and logistical issues, right? So cosmos itself started off fairly decentralized and that ethos has kind of continued with with of most two. But cosmos itself is fairly decentralized. You have, you know, like various entities working on different initiatives, the ICF all in bits.
AKA Tenderman's Inc. I don't know when Informal came about, but Ethan Bookman kind of found it informal at some point. And you had these folks spread out across. I think there were a good number of folks working out of Canada. I think Chain Safe was involved with
one of the past euthamint implementations, which is their devshop based out of Canada. There were folks based out of Berlin. As I mentioned, there were folks based out of the San Francisco Bay area. And so I think like too many people working on too many
things at the same time and getting excited about launching all of them. And keep in mind, you know, Tendermint had had I think was just being built was just being finalized. The IBC spec went through many revisions and had multiple stakeholders that that revised it over and over again. And the IBC
The final implementation had been ready up until later in the timeline. The cosmos hub launch was also the thing that was prioritized which meant that Ether meant got less attention.
kind of the various stakeholders and their specific interests kind of may have competed a little bit. I can only stipulate I wasn't full on plugged into the ecosystem at
that point, but I can only kind of relay what I've heard from that period. It sounds like it was chaotic, but very exciting and fascinating. It was a while from what we also hear the OG stories back in the day. But yeah, so I mean,
There was some technical challenges for sure, as always, for bringing this to life earlier. But I'm sure also some market conditions that weren't perhaps ideal after the whole ICO crash in 2017, '18.
So yeah, I guess those two things coming together means that it will take some time to build something like EFMOS. And speaking of that, so moving from EtherMEN to EFMOS, perhaps you can try to explain to us, like, we're five, for anyone who doesn't know what EFMOS is, I'm sure most people in our community
They have either played around with their mouse, used their mouse, bought it mouse, but tried to explain to us like with 5, perhaps even 10, why we should pay attention to F+ and why we should use it. Yeah, totally. So if I'm explaining to you like your 5,
Does this five year old understand what what Ethereum and Cosmos is or starting from scratch here? No, I think it's a bit of a non fair question. I guess I think most people they would know obviously of our Cosmos and everything so yeah what makes
unique you can say also right? Totally totally so so Evmos basically if you already know what what cosmos is all about and what ethereum is all about Evmos combines the programmability of ethereum you know with ethereum smart contracts with the interoperability of cosmos right so into
Today's environment, you have Cosmos SDK, which allows the builders to develop application-specific chains. These are L1s that rely on a validate set to sequence and validate transactions.
right and including blocks and publish those blocks etc.
What ends up happening is you see this dynamic where actually you don't get builders building in cosmos as fast as they can build on Ethereum, right? And why is that? Because it turns out
out that building and maintaining a chain is actually really, really difficult.
Excuse me just one second. No problem. Get some water, man. I have my cup of tea here in the evening. I'm sitting here in Copenhagen enjoying my night tea. That sounds very cozy. No, for sure. I have my cold water right here as well.
So pardon me, but back to the topic. Yeah, so it turns out that building and maintaining a whole chain logic on top of the value set is very, very difficult, right? You need to build a community around it. Obviously, but also you need to maintain a
a lot of logic that maybe is not in your wheelhouse to do. For example, there's the attendant aspect of it. There's the consensus part of the stack. There's the peering and networking part of the stack. Then there's the execution layer. If you have a runtime that you're running, and then
You have your application, your chain's application layer logic, right? The actual business logic that your chain executes, right, for your users, right? And you have to think about all these things, you know, at the same time, the Cosmos SDK is great for building chains quickly, right? But it doesn't, it doesn't, it doesn't,
doesn't operate on a level of abstraction where you won't run into issues with other layers. There have been still instances where you had to do upgrades to the version of Tenderman that you're using, etc. What that means for builders is they need a way
to be able to build in Cosmos and gain the same benefits of building in Cosmos that L1 developers have. But with the ease and speed of iteration of building on a smart contract platform like
Ethereum. That's basically what Evmos offers at the base level. Now ahead of that, I don't know, maybe we're getting ahead of ourselves here with the future vision and things in the roadmap for Evmos. But essentially, Evmos does offer
much more than that. It's not just what's possible on Ethereum, but what's possible on EVMOS extends Ethereum. That's the first part of the roadmap that if anyone in the audience isn't familiar with the EVMOS roadmap, I highly recommend you read one of
of our articles that you can find on our blog, ebmos.blog. You just typed into the URL bar. But the first part, there are three parts to our roadmap. And we've called the article that we put on our blog post, the ebmos manifesto. And we released that just last month. It's almost
a month ago. Very well written piece by the way. Kudos to you too. Yeah, I really appreciate you saying that. It has been kind of a culmination of many months of work. You know, this is something that we envisioned that we wanted to build since the beginning, but we couldn't really
particularly it as well given the shifting macro conditions, the shifting innovations in the industry. We weren't quite sure what the usefulness of such a thing might be. But essentially, Evmos is evolving past what is available on Ethereum, as I mentioned earlier, to offer
cross-chain smart contract functionality and more. The first part of the three-part roadmap is EVM extensions. What do we mean by that? We mean making available within the EVM, which is Ethereum's virtual machine, the component of
Ethereum that and Ebbmos that let you run Ethereum smart contracts. We are extending the capabilities of the EVM of what it's capable of while maintaining compatibility with all Ethereum tooling. So basically you should still be able to use
Metamask, you should still be able to use Remix or Ether Scan or any sort of tooling that you want to plug into Ebmos, right? Without breaking compatibility, but at the same time extending what smart contracts on Ebmos can do in such a way that they cannot do on
Ethereum. For example, right now, it takes Ethereum a very long time to upgrade its functionality. And just recently, EIP for... I keep forgetting these EIP numbers, but I think it's 437. There's a lot of them also. There are so many.
is a version of account abstraction that is not in protocol. They could not push such a big breaking change to Ethereum in a way that would say break backwards compatibility or change the account model drastically or even introduce
new new op codes. And what that means is the EVM kind of goes stagnant, but it's also stable, right? It's a platform that the developers can rely on. Now, for EVMOS,
EVM can afford to extend the EVM's capabilities because the EVM itself doesn't have to change. All that has to happen is a new module on the Cosmos side on the Cosmos SDK side can be added and that functionality can be made accessible through the EVM, through Smart Contracts.
And what that means is there are things like IBC that can be added to Ethereum smart contracts on ebmos. There are things like interchain accounts that you know these are all cosmos native features. I won't go into explaining each of them. But what this means is basically you enable a EVM smart contracts to call
contracts on other chains seamlessly, right? And developers, you know, building things like Uniswap, AVE, etc. can now start to think about building cross-chain versions of those same apps that everybody knows and loves, right? Yeah. There are also, sorry,
One long last thing I'll add in the emium extension space. There are also things that you can add to a smart contract that haven't been built before. So things like cron jobs, like timed execution, scheduled execution for a certain transaction. Instead of saying, hey,
transfer this amount from A to B now, let me schedule this transfer later on. Giving smart contracts the ability to do that is also possible. Just to kind of get the imagination going. Any functionality that can be added to, as it causes
SDSK module can then be made accessible to the EVM, can be made to extend what's possible on EVM on EVM. And that's kind of the direction we're going here. And that's the very exciting stuff also. I think that where you're hitting the nail on its head,
But again, just for someone that's called the person, an uninitiated, advanced user, future user, how could that look like? Perhaps this walk us through the journey that someone could go through. You mentioned Brief The 8, using Meta Mask and Ithas Cannon. And how do they move
over to something that is IPC enabled, let's say. And so that's today, how the user journey could look like today. But perhaps also go beyond that and talk to us about how it could look like down the line. Because I think everyone would agree that the narrative bringing Ethereum and Cosmos together is just super powerful. It
resonates with so many people in crypto. I can only speak for myself, but I have the first time I heard it. I was like, yep, I'm sold out into here anymore. So how does that really look like now as a user, but also in the near future, let's say?
Totally, totally. So before we answer that question, I want to explain something that's maybe obvious, that's maybe intuitive to many of the audience members here. But the thing to understand is that in Web 2,
a normal regular internet that most people are familiar with, you know, Web2 interactions for users are very different, right? The user doesn't have to pay for gas, for example, to like a picture on Facebook or to add a comment on Facebook. They don't pay for interactions.
They don't have to think about whether they are sending money over a bank transfer in an online banking platform, whether the transport protocol, the bridge that
the bank is using is safe, right? They don't need to think about the safety of their assets that they're transferring, right, from bank account A to bank account B, right? When you pay for, you know,
an item on an e-commerce platform you don't have to think about getting front ran by a searcher or getting sandwiched or something like that right. And so you know what I'm pointing out here is like all the ways where that web 3 kind today kind of
breaks these guarantees that the internet makes. And we see these as barriers to adoption. Another thing that is kind of way bigger that I'll point out is that nobody in Web2 thinks about where their applications live, right?
They don't think about hey, do these applications live on Amazon web services as servers or do they live on Google cloud servers? They live on Microsoft Azure servers maybe. Nobody has to think about that. And so why should users in web 3 have to think about hey, does this
application live on Juno or on Osmosis or on Evmos on Ethereum, right? I think the future where applications built in Web 3 where they see adoption
is a future where the user can fully focus on the application experience and not have to worry about what token they need to acquire to use the application or where the application and what platform it even lives on. The most important thing for the user
is to be able to use the application. And so that's kind of where we're coming from. And that future only exists if we can allow any user to use any chain from anywhere. That's kind of the direction.
We're going here. Beautiful. And how could that look like if we look a little further ahead? Like how do you guys see all this being implemented? I know it's perhaps a bit of a broad question, but if FMOS is truly going to be the cellapies between Cosmos and Ethereum,
which I think is a play here and it would be truly awesome to see that. But how could that look like? I'm not going to hold you up against it. It's just to pick your brain on this. Totally, totally. So let me explain how things work today in Web 3. Builders,
will build an application. Let's say Ave. The Ave team will build Ave. Because there's no cross-chain interactions right now, what they'll do is they'll deploy the same instance of Ave to many different blockchains.
They'll deploy it to Ethereum, they'll deploy it to Polygon, to Avalanche, maybe to EVMOS. The issue there is that it fragments both the user base and the liquidity base.
to take USDC from Ethereum over a year-end avalanche user. The version of the USDC that you bring over to avalanche from Ethereum may vary based on the bridge that you use. And the avalanche deploy
folks who have access to the Ave deployment on avalanche and ethereum users are the only users who really have access to the Ave deployment on ethereum and the list goes on and on. But what if you as a builder could deploy once to a specific
chain, let's say EVMOS in this case, and users that lived anywhere else on any other chain could talk to that deployment. So for example, let's take Juno. A user on Juno, which is another chain in the Cosmos ecosystem, could interact
with the Ava deployment on Evmos and without having to switch their network on Juno, they could put up a loan as collateral on the platform and another user, let's say,
an on-injective, which is a third chain in the Cosmos ecosystem, could maybe borrow against that collateral. Now remember, none of these users are switching their networks to EVMOS, but they are still being serviced by an EVMOS-based
application. And keep in mind also that neither injective nor Juno have to run an EVM. Evmos does the work of running
the EVM on their behalf. In yet, they still have access to that EVM block space. And I think that's kind of the model that
may work in the future. Maybe some play on this. There's several different ways this whole scenario can play out.
But broad strokes, it's really being able to deploy your application on the stack that is best optimized for your use case.
And having anywhere, anyone anywhere be able to use it. There's no reason why it should just be restricted to the users that are on your platform. Yeah. And that's, I think, is what excites so many people, right? You can have all the different apps in Ethereum, building a version on EFMOS.
all the different depths or app chains in Cosmos building, integrating with EVMOS and boom, you have Cosmos and Ethereum coming together via EVMOS. I think that story right there is just so powerful. And a lot of people are paying
attention to this, other projects as well. And the community I can see already is very eager to hear about your take on others, forking F-Muzz, taking inspiration from F-Muzz, all these different things. I mean, Kanto is obviously a project that comes to mind.
But there's more, right? There's a fairer chain, for example, in progress, radio network. There's a lot of people, I'm sure, many more, who is building and forking FMOS. I mean, in a way, forking a protocol, forking a project is sort of the way to see if they
if you got something going for you. Right? So it's not inherently bad. It's just how do you guys at FMOS look at this because it is sort of taking a lot of attention away from the awesome tech that you guys built, I think. Yeah, yeah. Now this is my favorite topic so I'm glad you asked.
Yeah, to take you back to kind of the pre-launch of EVMOS, I think the team really wanted to focus on the team and the community and every contributor out there, you know, kind of saw value in open
sourcing the EVM that was being built for EVMO. So, you know, essentially, Ether mint, the name, evolved to describe not the chain, because the chain is called EVMOs, obviously. But the
The EVM itself, the SCK module that allowed you to utilize EVM capabilities.
That piece was open source and called ephemin. So when I talk about ephemin today, we're talking about the EVM functionality, EVM module. And that was done on purpose. That open sourcing of the module was done on purpose because we wanted more EVMs out there.
In Cosmos, we wanted more proof of stake EVMs that would be cross-chain compatible. Because if you think about it, Evmos cannot be the only chain that boasts an EVM. Otherwise, there's no cross-chain functionality happening because you have no chains to enter
And at the time, you know, at the time, we, you know, there weren't even that many cosmos chains out there at the time of launch. You know, I think like the number might have doubled. I think it's over 50 now, but at the time it was certainly under 25 cosmos chains. So we saw
This dynamic where if we increased if we launched eVMOS with community support and then also were able to launch various application specific EVM chains ourselves, then we can
could extend what was possible on EVMOS via all these other chains that were more tailored to specific experiences like an NFT chain for example or a Dow chain etc. Nice. So it's almost like how Cosmos have all kinds of app chains. Yeah, there's Cosmos Hub and then there's all
kinds of app chains with specific purposes. Is that a fair comparison? Like, Evmos is almost like the equivalent of Cosmosub just being interoperable between Ethereum and Cosmos. And then there's going to be all these different other chains that fork Evmos. Is that a
comparison. Yeah, yeah, in a sense, in a sense. And you know, kind of our hypothesis here was that we were going to have to launch the first few EVM chains, right? Like, you know, we weren't sure if it would take off. So we would have to do it ourselves and we were happy too. We just had to focus on building out FMOs first in order
for it to be stable enough to reuse. But to ask, you know, and this was quite a pleasant surprise, but you mentioned like Kanto already. There's a few other notable forks like Cronos and Kava. And all of these forks kind of demonstrate
the success story of Etherman because they themselves are the top three chains in the cosmos ecosystem by TvL, right? Canto, Cronos and Kava, and all of them are forks of Evmos, right? And so it's actually quite a pleasant
It wasn't surprised to see that the EVMOS software that was developed by the core team has had this product market fit out of the box. We didn't have to launch our own secondary or tertiary chains.
You know, that part has already been done by other people on their own without kind of us having to get involved there, which is fantastic. And just to note that EvoMos itself is not necessarily focused on the DeFi element, right? And so it's really great that Kava, Kanto, and Krono
can all be the trailblazers in that realm. None of them are focused on cross-chain. That's really the thing that EVMOS is zooming in on. It's that cross-chain capabilities in order to turn, let's say,
TVL on canto, that TVL should be accessible by anybody in the cosmos ecosystem, not just by canto users, especially since it's so hard. I don't know if it's still the case, but I know at that launch it was kind of difficult to bridge over to canto from Ethereum.
So what if we could, you know, via eVMOS give access to a broader set of users to the applications that live on canto? Interesting. Yeah. And then that's the way we're thinking about it at the greatest. Yeah. As an eVMOS holder and a staker, I would have loved to see all that TV
to ebmos but I think I follow what you're saying is not ultimately bad or only bad for ebmos that these different chains are gaining a lot of traction. If anything it's a validation of what you guys are doing. Well 100%. I do see it as market
validation that there is demand for what has been built and its encouragement for us to sort of take it further. Now, you know, I'm not saying it's not possible for TVL and what not to be built up on EVMOS. The thing that you'll see is that, you know, many bridges
have deployed specifically to EVMOS and when it comes down to canonicalizing certain bridge denominations, it's like a very interesting dynamic plays out. So you have gravity and axelar that have their own Cosmos L1s that natively
use IBC. So when somebody is using, for example, a gravity to bring in some assets, let's say USDC again from Ethereum, you know, gravity will use IBC to relay those assets to anywhere else in the Cosmos ecosystem, you know, as one of the most trustless and secure protocols out there.
However, for chains that don't have a Cosmos L1, like cellar or multichain or layer 0, these chains run the risk of they don't want to deploy to too many other chains within Cosmos, right?
What that means is you fragment that liquidity. So let's say you have like multi-chain USDC. So, a multi-USDC, right? And you deploy a bridge to Juno and a bridge to Injective just to use those two examples.
So you deploy multi chain to Juno and you deploy multi chain to injective. Now the interesting thing is that if you bring USDC over multi chain to Juno, that's a different USDC. That's a different denomination than if you bring USDC over multi chain to Juno.
to inject it right and traditionally the way we think about it is that oh you know different bridges uh... can fragment this the same uh... car at the same token the same denomination right however now what you get is a dynamic where this uh... the same bridge
And the same token had me fragmented further by deploying to different chains because Juno and Injective will talk to each other over IBC. But that USDC that was brought over
multi-chain to Juno directly and was brought over to Injective directly over multi-chain again. Those two USDC versions of those two versions of MoL USDC are not compatible with each other over IBC anymore right so now you have an issue and that's kind of a
Another purpose that that most may serve is, hey, let me, let me simplify this for you. Let me route all of your liquidity where it needs to go. So it's not fragmented. Right. And that that by itself is a huge, huge thing.
I mean, back to my original story about how I personally got started with Cosmos and the experience in the Ethereum ecosystem. I mean, if Eva solves the whole liquidity moving around liquidity as elegantly as you guys are.
doing it, then I mean that that will be a huge thing for crypto in general, not just Ethereum and Cosmos, the entire ecosystem I think. So right on with that, but back to the token on the FMAS token, which I think has spurred a lot of attention and excitement and all these
things, because I'm not only because of the narrative being so powerful, but also because of very juicy staking rewards. Perhaps you can talk to us about the token, and if there's anything that you can't disclose, then feel free to say. But yeah, talk to us about the token and why people should pay attention here.
Yeah, so as I mean the thing that I think the community has latched on to is the fact that the ebmos token will be used as a key driver for using a lot of the cross chain mechanisms that will be used as a key driver for using a lot of the cross chain mechanisms that will be used as a key driver for using a lot of the cross chain mechanisms that will be used as a key driver for using a lot of the cross chain mechanisms that will#
we're talking about today, right? So whether that means that EVMOC is providing like cross-chain Oracle services or cross-chain scheduled transfers or scheduled smart contract calls,
And any future cross-chain services, as most more and more, is evolving into a service chain. And those services are paid for by the most token.
Now what's interesting about the Evo's token too is that Evo doesn't burn the token necessarily. What it does is that it rewards the token to builders.
There's another EIP, 1559, on Ethereum that causes like a deflationary mechanism for Ethereum. So, you know, there's a burn. Excuse me, but on EVMOS, what happens instead is that instead of a burn, that token is redistributed.
distributed to builders, to employers of smart contracts. And this is actually great because it means that builders who build these cross-chain services are able to
Build feasible business models around their work. They're not just working for free. The protocol is able to reward them for doing a good job. This is important because up until this point, the only business model that has been around
for developers is, hey, you need to launch your own token. And sometimes, you know, that token doesn't really take off or do anything or have a use case here. And so, yeah, I think Polkachu, if anyone is familiar, Polkachu is a prolific validator in the
space, they also post quite a bit on the Twitter timeline. They have a great article. I forget what it's called, but it's something like blockchains need to build services that other chains need. And this is especially
relevant to the cross-chain environment. Yeah. Pokachu is a great account to follow, by the way. I think I know the article that you are referring to, but in general, I can highly recommend anyone to follow. Pokachu on Twitter, it's just gold. Sometimes I come out of the account.
Yeah, 100% with you there. So yeah, I mean the token it's it's been quite a ride with with Edmos and I'm sure it's gonna come back but you also recently announced I think was like a month ago or something like that and yeah
an updated roadmap which captured a lot of attention and excitement once again in FMOS. For anyone who didn't have time to read it, can you perhaps just summarize what's on the horizon for FMOS? Totally, totally. And once again, you can read that
it's called the ebmos manifesto, it's on ebmos.blog, and it's also pinned to the main ebmos account profile. So if they have time to go and check it out there. But I already actually talked about the first part of the roadmap, which is EVM extensions, and the timeline
online for EVM extensions is around late April, early May. And that's when smart contracts are going to be able to do things like staking and IBC transfers themselves, which is not possible yet, you know, anywhere.
But past that, we also have two more parts to this, this roadmap, which are the Evmos SDK.
and the Dapsalm. So just to be fair, EVM extensions extend the capabilities of the smart contracts on EVMOS and allow them to go cross-chain. The EVMOS SDK is an evolution of what's possible with EtherMint, the EVM module,
And is an SDK for building EVM chains, right? So in a similar way to like what the Cosmos SDK does for Cosmos chains, the Evmos SDK does for EVM chains. So fully customizable EVM chains. And this is kind of inspired by the fact that
And then, you know, we have a lot of different things that we can do. And we have a lot of different things that we can do. And we have a lot of different things that we can do. And we have a lot of different things that we can do. And we have a lot of different things that we can do. And we have a lot of different things that we can do. And we have a lot of different things that we can do.#
almost the same packages as EVMOS, but inserts its own custom logic for a zero fee AMM and lending market that's built into the chain and is governance controlled. Right? And so we'd love to allow future developers to customize their
their chains in similar ways to how Chronos and canto have done it. And so that's why we're building an SDK specifically for these L1 builders. Beautiful. And it's gone. I just want to say it's the reason I say
for is because so much in the cosmos ethos it's just marvelous to see really how you guys are adopting this and bringing Ethereum into the whole cosmos ethos totally totally yeah no absolutely I mean from the from the get go I kind of you know in that story I mentioned
earlier mentioned that, yeah, first and foremost, we were introduced to Cosmos and we've always been very excited about it. So excited to be here. The last part of this 3-3-mile stone roadmap is the DAPS store. Now what is the DAPS store?
The DAP store is the way users can interact with applications that live cross-chain. Kind of what I mentioned with the Web2 example, like, you know, Web2 users need to be able to use applications without
I have to think about the underlying blockchain layer. And so there you need a storefront, a unified UI, user interface, to interact with every cross-chain dab out there. Not just the cross-chain dApps that are built on Evmos, by the way.
Right because it shouldn't matter where these cross chain dApps are built. It shouldn't matter what tokens the user has to pay for transaction fees, for example. They should be able to pay in any fee and any token that they have right now and the chains that underlie each of the apps on the
back end should be able to abstract away the fee calculation logic and make it so that they pay the correct amount every time or even not have to pay it all. I think right now there are experiments happening with fee abstraction and fee metering
where instead of paying once per transaction, what you actually do is you pay to top up, right? So you pay into it like a gas tank and over time you will execute transactions that
that will deplete your gas tank. So you only have to pay once and then use that gas over time. And so, yeah, there are various kind of innovations that are happening in that space and we hope to bring them to this interchain
DAP store in the future. I mean the more I listen to this and the more I understand about FBOS, really you guys seem to be aiming for delivering on the promise that blockchain has made about Web3, but everything will run on a
change basically. That will not happen with Ethereum, I think, not a monolithic system. It might happen with Cosmos, but I think the likelihood of something in between a golden middle path, if you will, which could be Evmos, that seems very likely.
I mean, we all know that Ethereum is a leader. So many dApps running Ethereum that's by far the biggest ecosystem, right? Both by developers, dApps, etc. Cosmos is an up-and-comer. I guess you can call it, right? So there's a lot of exciting stuff happening. I don't need to convince
anyone here that there's only Cosmos is challenging the incumbent being Ethereum. But bringing those two together and having this one-stop shop at DAP Store, as you mentioned, that just really sounds like delivering on the promise of Web 3, what we are really all doing here.
Would you agree with that as a whole, and my off here? Definitely, definitely. I mean, I think for us, the place we're coming from is that it's maybe a little bit a place of frustration because, you know, we really like a lot of the applications that have been built so far on Web 3.
But they're nowhere close to being as useful to the end users as like the general internet is, right? The Web 2. There are some applications that Web 3 has been really good for. But largely we haven't
really seeing things like gaming takeoff or identity solutions takeoff or anything like that. And that's because we're working within the limitations of what's been set out by, you know, chains like Ethereum and no hate to Ethereum actually really love the ethos of that ecosystem as well. And I think like the way that they had the model that
that they've got going on that kind of is, the antithesis of cosmos is like the roll-up centric roadmap for Ethereum. So there are two viable solutions for the future. One of them is a roll-up.
centric future, the other is what cosmos is doing. And I think you're right here in that it's probably a bit of both that will help push us over the edge and actually make Web 3 useful for everybody, not just for the niche audiences that we interact with today on cryptographic.com.
Twitter, right? Even though crypto Twitter always seems like kind of very busy and there's a lot going on and everything, like as soon as you step outside the bubble, realize how few people talk about or care about the industry and the things that people here are building, which is a huge shame because
because there are many innovations happening, but they're just not accessible. In order to reach the new paradigm of usability, this thing that we're talking about here, I think it's very important to consider an alternate direction. Hopefully, the thing that the AgMOS community is building is
going to be part of that solution. It's funny you say that. I mean, that's also why I encourage people to touch on grass, especially with people outside of crypto. I did that not too long ago and I was hiking with some friends. One of them is a nurse. People know
in crypto basically and something that seems so big and you know a big deal to me in crypto and blockchain with three they were just looking at me like what the hell are you talking about like this is not gonna this is so far away from their world that they they couldn't even come
the concepts that I was trying to convey to them. So yeah, I encourage people to do the same against the perspective every now and then. But you mentioned something interesting that from the Ethereum ecosystem also that there are EVM chains sort of
overlapping a bit with how the cosmos app chains and the whole narrative with cosmos is being set up. Like you got for example polygons, super nets and avalanches, sub nets, like there's some flavors that seem very similar to what the cosmos app chains are building.
So it almost feels like the two ecosystems, the EVM ecosystems and the customers, sort of blending together, moving somewhat the same direction, but from two different points of starting points basically. Totally.
And this is a good thing, by the way. I want to point out it's not a bad thing. Like basically what this leads to is more optionality for builders. Right. And in Web2, builders have so many tools available to them to build the best possible application for the use case.
That they're thinking of right for their users right and so why is it that in web 3 we can't have Many different kinds of stacks available for for builders to build the best use you know the best version of their use case out for their communities, right? I think it's like very reasonable to to like assume that
And actually, I just want to point out that Martin Copeland from NOSIS, I think, from Kau Swap, has a very good tweet about how we can combine cosmos and the Ethereum roll-up centric roadmap together. And I think that's kind of what the
future will look like. I'll try and find it for you and send it over if possible. We will, I'm not aware of this but we'll certainly amplify it if you send it across. Totally. I'm looking for it right now just in case we have enough time to share it live. But yeah, anyway.
Definitely, definitely. Let me ask you and we're approaching the end now. So I know you guys are busy, but talk to us just briefly about how interchained security, replicated security, how does that affect Fmos if at all? Yeah, totally. So
This hasn't been publicly announced yet, but EVMOS is actually considering contributing to the mesh security effort. It's not a secret or anything, but we haven't put out any calms about it.
Recently we see that there's a little bit of instability in the interchained security roadmap for the Cosmos hub. I have no idea personally what's going on. I can't keep up with the drama, but Noble opted to not use V1 shared security. I know there are various names.
replicated security and then interchange security and all this stuff. There's just a lot happening. You know, for me, the mesh security model makes a lot of sense and that's the model that we're considering seriously. In addition to that, you know, we're speaking to
Babylon for utilizing their checkpointing mechanism to bolster, you know, I guess it's a different kind of security than economic security, but to bolster the defenses against long range attacks and that sort of thing.
So, yeah, like there are many, and as the, as time goes on, many new forms of security will emerge, right? And I don't think that they're necessarily competitive with shared security, with, with interchange security, right? They're all a form of shared security, so, you know,
know, like, for example, I think what eigenlayers restaking mechanism is doing is kind of a form of shared security that defends against various different things, different attack vectors than what like Babylon's version of shared security might defend against. And like mesh security is like a little bit
And like the various versions of interchain security are also different right and so like There's nuance here to consider one thing I'll say then I and that I always always say is that the market for security is still very early Nobody knows how much a change should be paying for different kinds of security
And so we don't want to be hasty in our decision making. We're also waiting on feedback from the community to see what they think right now. But I do think it's important for EVMOS to take security seriously because if it's to become, you know, one of the primary inter, you know, cross-chain services
providers in the interchange, those services need to be secured. There's no, this isn't like a joking matter, this isn't something to take lightly. If EVMOS is to facilitate these cross-chain interactions,
Even if it's not necessarily building up its own TVL, things security is very important and the kinds of security that matter are important to think about. So yeah, definitely something that's top of mind for the community as a whole right now. Yeah, I mean blockchain is infrastructure right and we are building
the new internet, decentralized internet. And that will just take time. I mean, all these things that you mentioned, it's got to take time to figure out, work out, and build. So, yeah. Good things are worth waiting for guys. But yeah, Nico, you have been
super generous with your time. Thank you so much for coming onto the club today. One last question that I would hate to beat myself up if I didn't ask. And that is assuming that the FMOS is executing brilliantly as you have done in the past on the FMOS SDK, on the
EVM extensions and the DAP store that you mentioned on the roadmap. How does it must look like? I don't know five years from now 10 years from now pick your year basically. How does the future with that must look like? Yeah, definitely. I think I'm going to speak not just for most but for all the chains out there and I'm going to
say something controversial. But if all the core teams across Cosmos are successful, the end user should be able to use applications that are built on Web3 infrastructure without them having to know or understand
that what a blockchain is or how a bridge works. The bridges that they use should be trustless, permissionless, secure for their use cases and the user experience should be seamless. That's the goal here, the goal in the Holy Grail.
Anything below that, I'd be very disappointed if we spent the next 10 years working hard in the industry and we didn't achieve that. So that's where I'll leave there. Amen, brother. Niko, thank you so much for coming on today. It's been a true pleasure. You guys are killing it and we thank you for all the hard work that I've
What's this doing? Bringing two awesome ecosystems together. Appreciate it, man. And thank you. Yeah, I really enjoyed being on here. And hopefully your audience got something out of it too. I'm sure and hopefully not the last time we hear from you guys. So thank you, Nico. Take care, man. Take care. Bye.