Hello everyone and welcome to the Customs Club. Sorry about this slightly. That's on me. I was getting caught off in a few things. You know how it is. I can see it's with us. Good morning. Afternoon evening, whichever planet you're on. Indeed.
Just after lunch for me sitting here in Copenhagen, sunny Copenhagen, where are you tuning in from today? I am currently in Cloudy Prague just coming from the Cosmos Gateway conference. I always sit over there. The conference was awesome. The conference was really good.
Prague is beautiful as usual and other than a bit of rain. Yeah, unpredictable, but whenever it's sunny and all that, it's beauty. It's spectacular. Right, did you guys connect and collaborate with the bunch of people?
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. We did a lot of, I mean, my focus is of course largely a GORIC. We're just transitioning to, you know, the platform is now at the point where we are, you know, heading towards a general purpose platform for JavaScript smart contracts and very excited about that, very excited about
about the vault release, which I'm sure we'll talk about more through the hour here. So yeah, lots of things we had to talk about with people. Definitely. Yeah, so without further ado, but before we kick it off, is there anyone else team that we should invite? I just want to make sure we get everyone would needs to be able to speak to be able to speak.
Beakers. I'll see if there's anyone here awake from the econ committee. Otherwise, we'll just add them as we go about. Yeah. People don't. But yeah, so welcome everyone to the Cosmos Club where we talk all things, Cosmos, which we daily about what's going on and then we invite interesting
fascinating, hardworking builders of the Cosmos ecosystem, as basis like these. And today we are honored to have been from a GORIC and the Inter Protocol and IST with us. Thank you for joining, Dean. Thank you so much for having me. This is fun. And by the way, the questions in the thread, you know, I looked at before the people
We will start when we do it generally because conversations tend to take all kinds of routes. We try to blend in the questions as we go on throughout the conversation.
people shouldn't get too stressed out if they're not being invited to speak or anything. We cherry pick some of the questions. But let's start with you Dean, a little personal background on you. We'd like to start these things because people come from all walks of life in crypto and in customer
particular, I feel. So it would be great to hear just a little personal background, how you ended up working with and for a GORIC. Sure. So I started in software many, many, I'll say decades ago, one of the early cypher punks and very interested in how software could help people cooperate
how software could help rich economies grow and how software could help people be more free, be more able to do what they wanted to do. And so that's been a driving theme since back in the 80s where we worked on the first production smart contracts at the early days of the internet.
that software helping people cooperate has just been really a driving sort of theme and vision and desire. So I worked on distributed systems technology internet technology, you know, early e-commerce, those kinds of things where it involved lots of new security techniques and you know, just how do you make a system
of software that can enable strangers to cooperate that can make it easy to grow interesting complex applications and that sort of thing. So come 2017, there were all these, you know, breaches and losses on the Ethereum chain. And I think it was actually Zuko that knew that me and my
co-founder, now co-founder, Mark Miller, had been working in this area, sort of not in Web 3, but in Web 2 and earlier, you know, working in the area of smart contracts and online businesses and security architecture and that sort of stuff. So he knew we had a different approach for how to program this stuff, for how to secure this stuff. And he helped pull together
a group that was included Arthur Brightman, Mark Miller, Brian Warner had just finished the security review, security audit of Ethereum. And it was a panel to talk about whether this approach would help with the kinds of losses and security issues they were seeing
On a theory and the answer that everyone came out with there was yeah, and so that got the work that got the group project started to bring all that you know decades of work into the crypto verse and and that's been the agorac project and we're just now you know
All of it has now come together with both the platform we're just exiting what we refer to as our main net one phase where we build up the platform for JavaScript. We build up these initial economic institutions like Stablecoin or StableSoken. Now we move our sites to being a general purpose platform.
for people to be able to build smart contracts and JavaScript. So, you know, going after mainstream markets and the 14 million sum-odd developers out there that programmed JavaScript. Beautiful. And I think something that a lot of people is asking, I can also see in the community, some of the relationships between a core
and the inter protocol, and IST, the stablecoin. Maybe you can just sort of get the quick rundown on the relationship between the two. So they're very much symbiotic. So when we first set out to do the smart contract platform and looking at, okay, one of the questions is, how do you do a gas model?
And in Ethereum, there was other stable token projects going from ETH, you could use DI, you could use USTC. But one of the observations is when you look at the Ethereum market, is your paying for execution with a volatile commodity.
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Apple shares or gold or something like that. But do you really want a long-term contract worth three years from now? You promised to pay your $2,000 rent with a couple of Bitcoin and now Bitcoin is worth $20,000 or $30,000. The answer is you'd probably be unhappy with that. Much of an economy
runs on long-term contracts, mortgages, subscriptions, loan agreements that give you a nice anchor in the value of the medium of payment you're using. And gas is one of those. So we really knew we wanted, you know, the other phrase, right? A few thousand years ago, we discovered that a stable token was actually
valuable to making an economy for us and we were all about enabling a very rich and large economy to flourish and that meant having an underpinning stable token that could grease the wheels of commerce that could you'd use to pay for gas prices for execution for other
And that made it had to be intrinsic to the execution engine of the machine. And so that said, yep, we're going to need a native built in the system, stable token to pay for gas as the gas fee and to pay for services and oh, by the way, to make it easy to pay for gas.
for simple small businesses to roll out where consumers can tell what things are priced in, consumers can pair these prices. And it's not critical for the agor-platform that it be tied to it, that it have parity with the dollar. And we can talk about parity versus peg there. But it's convenient from an accounting point of view
for a lot of businesses and a lot of users that it have parity with the dollar just because that's what a lot of companies have their books in. But the main thing is that if I've got a subscription, the price today versus the price in two weeks versus the price in two years, I can reason about the difference. I can compare the difference in the price of two different
services and stuff. Yeah, I think it would be nice to hear from you the difference between parity and peg because definitely as a saying goes, I mean, if you want to decentralize world, we need to decentralize money. Yep, absolutely. There's just no way around it. So yeah, please.
continue the difference between the parity and pick. Well, of course, you're like, there's the pegs stability modulin in Dianne so forth. But we, you know, we've on the design of the overall tokenomics on the on IST on many of the ideas of how people, what we could do to make it easier for, you know, domain experts
to build an application for their domain without having to be crypto experts, we had a lot of economists that we work with. We have a group of economists, several of them out of RMIT University in Australia, Jason Potts, Chris Berg, and Claire Davidson, and then Options Trader, Joe Clark, and just a bunch of these people that have practical
economic experience. And as soon as we use the word peg, they're like, no, no, no, no, that's not what's going on here. You're not dedicating a pool of funds in order to make sure that it stays right on the, you know, right on the pricing of this particular dollar thing. You want it near there. You want it to be, you know, you want it to be close, but there is a
much more careful specification of what economists mean if you've got a peg, right? And even hard peg versus soft peg, you know, is it, and, and so they're very precise about that sort of stuff. And as you're trying to make, you know, new economic institutions that really can leverage the value of thousands of years of
analyzing this stuff, it behooves you to make sure that the language aligns well. And so we wanted low volatility so that you know that the price of something that you're paying now is the same price if you paid for it an hour from now or a month from now. But, you know, is it critical that it be just
debt on someone's idea of what what the dollar price of Adam is like no it's just got to be reasonable. And if that if that ends up making sense from an economic point of view for it to still be low volatility but drift away from a dollar tag because
because SEC be crazy, then, and just off to Euro or Canadian dollar or yet or whatever it is, or just a basket of combined goods as the future of the decentralized economy evolves.
That's fine. That still retains its value as a unit of account, as a medium of exchange, and as long as the volatility is low enough as a store of value. And that's what you need. As I said, dollar is convenient until dollar is not what you want to price things in anymore, and then it can drift to something that's more useful.
make sense, make sense. And I want to dwell on the stablecoin market and IST. But before we do, I just want to tie a bow on the Accorix setup because I think a lot of people, this was been in crypto for some years, they would remember, for example, Lisk and other
chains and protocols and ecosystems that were very JavaScript focused. I think I mean that it makes so much sense right. The narrative is very strong. There's so many developers that can and do build in JavaScript all kinds of things web 2. So why shouldn't they be able to deploy something in web 3. Right that narrative in itself is just
Very strong to understand very powerful huge potential. How do you see yourself? And now I'm saying you as a coric. How does a coric fit into I guess you can say Web 3 in general, but in particular other ecosystems that are trying to bridge the JavaScript developers onto Web 3.
Right. So, and let me give a, let me, let me say a little bit of the differentiation. You know, people have tried to take the stab at JavaScript, but, you know, we've got, you know, like Mark Miller has been on the job success standards committee for 15 years and he's a big reason why it is secure enough to, you know, to control literally trillions of dollars
a day in trading on terminals like Bloomberg and systems like Salesforce. So JavaScript really is critical to the financial ecosystem and the ability to do so and robustly defend against vast amounts of an attack against millions of sites on an ongoing basis is a testament to
him carrying the banner for essentially the architecture of security that we're using for smart contracts. The job script a few years ago was not suited to smart contracts, right? You have to deal with non-determinism, you have to deal with making sure that a program
Starting from the same state will compute exactly the same answer with exactly the same values and new state every time on every machine for everybody that's critical to the architecture of blockchain where 100 machines executes the same thing and votes to agree on coming up with the same answer.
And so as we've added into the JavaScript standards, the requirements to be able to, you know, the infrastructure to be able to take arbitrary third party code and safely run it in a playground where we can give it a small amount of authority, we can give a smart contract authority over its own wallet.
But strong assurance that it can't access anybody else's. That same technique let it also lock down a lot of the sources of non-determinism. And then there have been a few more in the implementation that have taken somewhat longer than we expected to be able to lock down, but we're there now. And so that took a lot of work.
The other thing is that JavaScript, part of the reason it's successful, is not just because it's a language that's everywhere and everyone can use it. It's because it's the kind of language you can build a rich framework in. You can build ReactJS where experts can build components that, or experts, a job
can build components that experts in some domain like you know painting or art or or or or concerts or when concert management or whatever that domain expert can grab this component that they could not build and use it in their application and deliver value to their customers and that that ability to have you know people of different skills
level's building components is a critical value in JavaScript. And so we needed to build a framework like what React is for user interface developers, right? You know, where it has, you know, lots of affordances for mouse clicks and rendering and combining components in a safe action. We have lots of affordances for valuing assets and trading them in escrow and
and options and that sort of thing and plugging those components together in a safe fashion. And so that a lot of it is the framework in JavaScript. And so those are some of the elements that make what we have in terms of rolling out a platform that yes, it can use VS code and use sort of the most popular development tools and tech.
But it also has the kind of framework that JavaScript developers come to expect for building mainstream applications. I realized also I didn't answer half of your other question about the symbiosis of ISD and the GORC platform. So we needed the economy. We needed ISD as the backbone of the economy for the
for a GORIC. And so all of the components and all of this component model doing in JavaScript also enable IST to be able to be built in a way that's transparent, understandable and extensible by multiple people in the economy in various ways where other people could add
new, awesome ways to base and mint IST on, and get it accepted by the ecosystem and have that roll out in the future. So there is this symbiosis where the build ecosystem grows and gets value from the growth of IST where it's where the reward
towards to build stakers scale with the size of the economy scale with the amount of IST out there and IST benefits from the pluggable and extensible economy and the growing the growing use of IST in the in the building of work economy. So, anyway, beautiful. Two answer. Beautiful. Yeah, that's awesome. That's a great segue to to dwell on the
IST there because just like it was just asking about how you see yourself, a coric in terms of other similar ecosystems like the LISC, a lot of people I think have at least heard about. I have a similar question and the community also has been asking this multiple times I can see how IST
is placed compared to other stablecoins still comes to mind of course in customers or usk from Kojira and so to talk to us about the difference in the mechanism you already talked about the difference between parity and effect but yeah talk to us about how IST is placed in the in the stablecoin cost perverse
So we were working on it and we included IST in our design and in the design of our component architecture and use it as a driving example for our framework, long before the UST crash, for example. It's part of the design, the EGORC white paper from whatever is 2019 or something.
And it was actually at the first Cosmoverse in Lisbon where we were describing the Agora economy. And I think it was sunny. There's like, "Oh my God, a stable token back with Adam, we really wanted to please get it out there." It's like, "Well, okay, well, you know, we've got to schedule this a lot of work to do on JavaScript, we'll get out there."
But that got us thinking about how we had already designed the IBC native. A lot of the reason why GORIK got together with Cosmos was we were mutually inspired by each other's ideas and it was like we found our people.
this network-distributed coordination across lots of different independent services, you know, kind of model of the world. And so we realized that we were already designing IST to have multiple minting mechanisms in an extensible fashion and to use assets, to use collage
As assets coming from other chains across the across the IBC, across the Cosmos ecosystem, and indeed we were planning to start with, you know, sort of, you know, our ideas, the obvious place to start was Adam because it's availability liquidity and, you know, and appreciation for what the Adam community has.
created and built for all of us as well as the fundamental asset value. And so the goal of unlocking the liquidity of Adam and other assets across the ecosystem really inspired us to go, you know, this argument that you need a stable token to grease the gears of commerce. Well, now we're part of an interchain economy or that's what we're growing.
And especially with the mayor market, the next, a big chunk of the next run is going to be about interchain or interoperability and interoperable economy. And, you know, same argument, an economy needs a stable token in order to grow, right? It really facilitates, it reduces the frictions
in an economy from the point of end users right you know it's easy to argue oh I'm you know my NFT thing I want people to buy buy my NFTs with my NFT token but someone coming in with a credit card does not give a damn about your NFT token and if you want to sell them your NFT you need to make that easy what they want is to be able to pay with something
that they can compare buying the NFT on one side versus rebying it on some auction site versus holding it for something that's been offered on some yet some third side in the future. And so, you know, it enables having a currency really enables interchain economy to grow and it will make it much
It's easier for us to reach customers and clients that are outside our economy. And so we sort of shifted years, changed the name in order to really remind us and remind everyone and really shifted into our technology conserved for a stable token.
that is, you know, it's not motivated by making a lot of money, it's motivated by making a large economy and helping a large economy. And that's what the entertain needs. And so, you know, let's shift our focus so that it's, so that it's, you know, very much about getting IST out earlier to the entertain and then we'll worry
about building up the, you know, making the agor-platform ready for people to deploy on. And so that's what we did. And so we, you know, prioritized IST, got it out there. I think in terms of key differentiators with other stable tokens, okay, first off, obviously it's IST, it's IPC native, it's interchain native. So anything that's not, I mean, it's great,#
die over, the die folks are really, really, you know, the maker, the folks is a really awesome team. They've got a lot of great ideas and they're really wise and smart and sort of thoughtful and and and align correctly on the values, you know, things we all value about the crypto ecosystem, but it's certainly not cause most native and it's certainly not backed by the asset
that we all have built here. It's not backed by Adam and Osmo and Juno and you know, Preston and all these things, right? And so we wanted something that was needed. The other thing is we're really at the beginning of the journey. So we really need something that is extensible and that can evolve. I mean, right now we want to start with fully backed, right? You know, that's critical until you've got a
a deep rich economy that has all these long term contacts that provide these other mechanisms for stability and then you can consider other options, right? But starting fully back, starting back, you know, tied in with other stable tokens, you know, able to leverage, you know, US dollars in a bank account, you know, through via USBT and you
So that you can simplify liquidation so that you can make it easy for institutional money to get in. All those kinds of things mean you really want something that's extensible and that can evolve and that's what our platform is built for. So that's sort of one of the key differentiators that were built in a way that people can drive this forward and have it evolve in the future.
I feel like there's you were just a fountain of information here, so I'm so glad that you came on. It's just a pleasure to just sit and listen. You recently announced the vaults, relatively recently I mean crypto moves very fast, right? So, relatively
the recently you're gonna have your balls. Talk to us about that and just to stay within the theme. Compare that perhaps to at least the term "volt" is something that many people have heard about in Cosmos with Kansar, with Somenje, Terriom, but also moving to Cosmos.
So yeah, talk to us about vaults from the glory. Right. Well, there are only so many awesome names and vaults has been reused for multiple purposes. So these are vaults like the Maker Dowsdial Vault. So it is, you know, and it is I can take an asset in this. Let's take Adam. I can take Adam, bring it over to
to a gorg create a vault which is lock up the atom inside of this vault that I still control it's still my vault I'm not I'm not transferring these atoms to someone else I'm putting them in the stable token or into this this stable token engine and then and then my vault mince IST um you know up at
Up to you know that some some some value based on the amount of Adam I put in there so the Adam is collateral If I put in two thousand dollars worth of Adam maybe I can then mint a thousand dollars of IST and then I can take that off and use it in a yield farm buy in FTs with it You know pay for for for for Compute service
or AI training GPU services on a cost or buy tickets at Omniflex or whatever it is. I've got cash that I -- or the IST, Interchain equivalent that I can go and spend in various places, pay gas on various chains, that sort of thing. And one of the ways that the
And this is not just something that's well established in in Make or Down on crypto, but much of the world money works this way, right? You know, home loans, home equity loans are, I've got a volatile asset, which is my house. It might be worth, you know, $100,000. You wish prices really
But it might be worth $100,000 and I put it up as collateral and I can borrow $50,000 but what's actually happening in many of the major banks is they are effectively minting US dollars on their books and of much of the US dollars in circulation is minting
by banks against the asset value of houses. Similarly businesses get loans against collateral or get, you know, their organizations that get that that mint new dollars against locked up gold in a gold account. Gold is a volatile commodity. Its value goes up and down and if the value of gold goes down too far
against the amount of US dollar minted against your gold, it will sell the gold. Now obviously US dollar is not fully collateralized, but fully collateralized. There are lots of reasons why that's the right place to start in the crypto ecosystem. Okay. So what are some differences with other platforms?
One of the most important accidents, shall we say, in MakerDow. And this goes back to some of the wisdom in MakerDow is that they observed that this accident was a good thing. They didn't try and fix it. They instead elevated it. And it's that in their oracle,
They take you know they at 9 a.m. They will snapshot the price and they will say at 10 a.m. We're going to liquidate based on this price most of the other stable tokens in the world they liquidate at the instant the Oracle moves right Oracle moves. It's now you know Adam went from $10 to $9.50
since you know your liquidation threshold of $10, bam you're off to the liquidators, your addums going to be sold to cover your debt and the debt of that vault and that makes sure that the currency stays solvent but now you don't have addon. Okay and it turns out that much of
of the profit that these stablecoins make, much of the rewards they get are from liquidation fees so they don't necessarily have an incentive not to surprise you with liquidations, right? But from an economist point of view, from wanting a stable token that can be a backbone of economy,
That's not great. The best liquidation is one that never happens. You want people to be able to get the stable token out and go do business and follow their plans and achieve what they want to achieve in an economy. You don't want to kick the legs out from under their asset because
they were on the edge and their value went down. And what you end up seeing in Maker Down is, oh my gosh, the price went down in an hour of billion dollars in vaults are going to be liquidated, right? But you've got an hour. So it ends up being like a market
in the stock world where you have an hour to make yourself hold to get either pay down the debt of your vault or bring some more atom over in order to bring up the amount of collateral so that you will not be liquidated. And when we were looking at these liquidation mechanisms in the
And security trading, you know, margin accounts and that sort of thing. If there's a margin call, which is to say, you borrowed more dollars against your securities than they can afford, you get told and then you have a fixed amount of time to cover your debt.
market dependent, not dependent on how fast things are falling. That lets you do much more orderly management to finances and more orderly management to finances leads to a better economy. So this model of Oracle, where you're not abruptly liquidating people, turns out to just be a much, much better economic model. And that's one of the things that's very much
different about the work model versus you know usk or other things. Right on. It almost seems like there's perverse incentives involved when when you have an incentive to liquidate your users which is not exactly the best user. It's almost like it is a perverse incentive and you have to actively make an organization
that is structured to resist that perverse incentive where our goal is a large economy. The value is aligning everyone around making a bigger economy, not around extracting value from people when you use stable-low. That's a good segue into the whole price-orical debate.
or Oracle networks because it all comes down to how do you validate pricing and obviously in crypto or in decentralized world there could be many opinions about something like a price. How do you objectively justify something like a price? It might seem on the surface like of course you can
objective is to save what is the price just by taking price or goals and just average it out or whatever but underneath the surface it becomes much more complicated than that. Right. Talk to us about how you guys handle or goals, third party or goals taking into account the risk that is involved from third party integration of course.
Absolutely. And so this model of get a price, so there are three roles for prices in stable token infrastructure or stable token or in a vault rather infrastructure. The first is, hey, I've got some Adam. How much IST can I mint against that?
And that involves the price of atom. If it's 10 bucks a pop, you know, and I'm putting in 100 of them, then that's $1,000 worth of atom. You know, assuming it's 10 bucks a pop, and not 10, 50 or 9, 50, right? But the next thing is there is a there is a minimum collateralization ratio.
I say, okay, I've got a quote, $1,000, unquote, worth of Adam, but the minimum collateralization ratio is 200%, which is to say, for $1,000 worth of Adam, I can mint $500 worth of IST. Now, if I'm off by 10% in the
or a double price, that just means I might be able to mint 510 or 490. It doesn't mean I didn't do the 10% of my head, but you get the idea. It doesn't mean I'm suddenly going to mint something in solvent, right? It doesn't mean I'm suddenly going to mint $2,000 worth of IST,
against $1,000 worth of atom. So there's a, there's a, is your Oracle maybe off by a little bit or is it totally worked? Right? So let's take those two scenarios separately. If it's just maybe off by a little bit, then, you know, the liquidation ratio, one of the kinds of things that includes, or sorry, the minimum collateralization ratio,
is it includes uncertainty for how quickly we'll be able to sell your collateral if we have to sell your collateral, how volatile is Adam, how volatile is the collateral you're using such that it might fall at a certain rate, and how accurate are our articles, how up to date are the oracles, and you can bake all those into the risk that, you know, the more accurate
your oracles are and the lower volatility your collateral is the lower the the the amount or the more IST you could mint for a given for a given collateral type right if if we were going to use you know a a well regarded stable token as collateral
as opposed to in the parity stability module, then you might have a minimum categorization ratio of only 5%, instead of 100%, for 105 cents worth of die, I can mint 100 cents worth of ISD. But that means you're not very
sensitive to really precise oracle accuracy there. The second phase is liquidation, which is, okay, the price just fell below $10. That's your liquidate or in the case of you minted it $10. The most we're going to give you is $5 and the liquidation threshold is
dollars at the point where the price falls below $8 we're now going to liquidate your vault. And so in that scenario, if it was the abrupt kind of liquidation, that sucks, right? You get the price drops for just a moment below $8 and then it pops up above but I'm sorry,
you're out of the liquidation queue, you're out of luck, your atoms are going to get sold, right? That would not be great. That model that I said where the Oracle, you know, you take a snapshot at nine o'clock saying, you know what, at 10 o'clock we're going to liquidate at this price. Even if you're wrong, even if the Oracle, when you took that snapshot,
But was the wrong number at least everyone now has an hour to cover their bets. Everyone has an hour to cover their collateral where they know it's unreasonable that it gets liquidated. That everything below 12 gets liquidated, but at least they can now do something
and make sure they don't get liquidated for the one round of liquidation that's at the wrong price. So there's the recovery ability. And that's nice. And then the other thing is, once they do get liquidated, they're not getting liquidated at that unreasonable price. Liquidation is an option. One of the things that we changed gears in November where we were
going to do liquidation against an AMM, a native AMM on the, on the agor platform, and you know, Osmosis and Crescent and others and Shade swap from knocking these various AMM ideas out of the park, right? And, and so, you know, there's already these AMMs. Let's not do that. Let's not do one and try to, to, to computer get enough liquidity there.
And so we instead switched over to doing a relatively familiar economically sound over the last thousand years or so liquid action auction, which is a Dutch auction where you started a price that's a little bit above the current Oracle price and then the price goes down from there until someone buys it.
And so even if it decided, oh, we're going to look at everything, you know, as if the price had fallen to $5, you know, well, okay, people are going to be paying $8 for it if the price, if the real price is $8. Doesn't matter what the Oracle says, people are going to buy and sell at the price they think it's worth. And so again, you're not very sensitive to the Oracle price#
So the nice thing about this is, you know, is stable tokens, you know, the Oracle prices tell it when to do things, but it's still people buying at the price they understand that cause actual economic movement. And, you know, while they might be slightly influenced by the Oracle, they will also be well aware if you're
So that's about, you know, where does the, what's the role of Oracle? We actually have a new Oracle network coming out as part of the vault network. And this was largely designed by people who've been doing Oracle's for a while. So simply staking, PEP Valley,
taking advantage of lying about the Oracle price or what have you. So they put together a group of -- simply taking the process to put together a group of chain link node operators to set up a parallel network inspired by and supported by the chain link folk. They've been great.
But with all of the contracts written in the pluggable JavaScript infrastructure running on the aguard blockchain so that it can natively grow and expand, people start to do T-wops or new aggregation models for Oracle prices. And so that means it will be rolling out with sort of this information
information rich environment for smart contracts where you can add and extend oracles and they just to a job stream program and they just look like a notify that says hey you know run this function when this changes. You know very very easy and understandable to the job stream programmer and very very useful for the whole liquidation architecture and and vault mechanism.
And so, you know, those oracles will appear on on on a goryk. They'll be driving vaults, but the API will be generic and so we'll be continuing to welcome other oracle providers from you know, T. Wops off of Osmosis to, you know, Ojo from from Ume to, you know, Makerdow was talking about making their
or it goes available to other networks. And let's have multiple providers so that individual DeFi applications can decide which Oracle providers they want to use, or they can do interesting straddling across multiple providers. Awesome, man. Awesome. There's a lot to unpack here, but in order to get through
Most of the questions here are the move on to governance because obviously, let's say for example you want to add a new price Oracle to the price B or whatever the ecosystem might want to decide on. Talk to us about the governance model that both the inter protocol has and the GORG of course.
And that perhaps also which I think brings it home in terms of the two token kind of model. Why does the inter protocol need both IST and the BLT token, the native the agoric token? Yeah, I'm sure. Okay, so you know one of the key values of course is decentralization, you know the underlying
the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of#
other people spun up the DCF, the decentralized cooperation foundation, which is chartered to take the ideas behind the Agorac platform and make sure that, you know, I mean, Agorac, Agorac, upco is a company that builds software, right? We've got, you know, we're a business, we've got specific goals, we've got software, we want to build, we've got
things we want to do, but we also do believe in the longer term larger mission of building large scale decentralized economy to enable lots of strangers to cooperate and, you know, permissionless private, you know, uh, uh, uh, following of our own pursuits. And so, and applying the awesome technology and a group because we've got, you know, we've been
And so, the fact that we're attacking and literally decades worth of work in this territory into the Agora platform, and we all want to see that technology thrive even beyond the Agora platform. And so that's part of the decentralized cooperation foundations. Charter is to take that stuff and do other things with it, like, you know, the Agora
You know, hard and JavaScript is the basis of the metamass snaps thing to provide JavaScript extensibility of a wallet, right? And it shows up in Web 2 platforms and stuff like that. So DCF exists to help, you know, foment an awesome economy on top of the Egoroc network and also elsewhere using the same technology stack.
And so they do a lot of the governance inspiration and oversight. So they rolled out policies for how to manage the community pool and they got the community buy into it. And I know they're working on what's the process for proposing a new collateral type
So, Gorkopco, we just build software, the community, and independent agents like DCF, they drive the process of what collateral is I should do. Now, for the economy itself and specifically for IST, you know, another truism is, you know, democracies don't really
do things well. What they do is they can set policy well, but it's smaller groups of people are usually more effective at getting stuff done. We've been inspired by that lesson from thousands of years of governance for a long time. The Econ committee is the first
First of several of these kinds of groups that are elected or appointed or come together spontaneously to drive some part of, in some sense, the overall governance of the economy.
The Peacon Committee, the Build Steakers, as part of the original rollout of IST back last year, they voted in a slate of folks that are not employees of a Gorg day. In fact, there are several of them that I've maybe been on a Zoom call, but I've never met.
But their experts in the field of currency management, economic trading, all this spectrum of things you would like for someone that's thinking about how can we best make sure we have a stable token that encourages growth of an economy and doesn't expect value.
value that the stable coin extracts, they're rewarded by accomplishing a large scale economy. So the Econ committee has very specific circumscribed ability to control the economic parameters of IST. So the PSMs, what are the minting limits?
know, in case one of these stable tokens that we are, that we connect to and bridge IST2 in case one of them goes south for a while, as happened recently. The parameter for collateralization ratios and minimum look atation ratios and the stabilized
The organization fee for how much the system how much you have to pay the system in order to mint ISE and all those kinds of things are controlled by the econ committee to with a mission to make for stable sound long lived stable token that a lot of people can rely on and they're they're accountable to the build
and that they can simply be replaced. But otherwise, they bring their expertise, they bring their biases, they bring their ideas to the table. And they're one of the ingredients, one of the several ingredients that would be involved in getting a new collateral
for example on IST. So they're working out the product, they're working out a process that would work for risk management and analysis before rolling out of the collateral. They'll publish that, you know, DCL for or view it, the community will vote on it and then that will be the process for new types of collateral. But, you know, as be fit
responsible governance that includes, you know, it will need volatility analysis and, you know, what's, is there a good price source and does liquidation work for this asset because those are critical for a collateral to be a sound collateral for the ecosystem.
of new types of collateral, new features, the roadmap basically. There's a lot of exciting things going on already within the inter-protocol and the correct. Talk to us about what's on the horizon, because I think obviously a lot of people always look to what's on the horizon and what's coming. I want to make sure we bring that
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So all you all out there can build new extensions and modules not just enter, but to, you know, sort of pluggable DeFi in general or the world of NFT Legos and start rolling out businesses. So that's our core development focus while the ecosystem, while the current economy, you're the current tool,
are deployed by the interprotocol ecosystem DCF, the econ committee, all the others that are involved in this. So I know that the econ committee and the interprotocol community, they're looking at, they're putting together this process for adding collateral types.
one of the things here at the Gateway Conference as an entertaining signalling vote, you know, we get people, you get people to come in and place their vote on what the next collateral should be. You know, it's, it's, that is a useful sentiment analysis, but obviously, once there's a set of, of
proposed ones, then they go to eCon committee and interprotocol works with gauntlet that does analysis to figure out, okay for this collateral if you were going to use it and be sound, here's the collateralization ratio you would need, here's what you should expect for the latency of liquidating and so that says you need to do the following kinds of numbers.
They do this nice analysis to really make sure that we have an overall sound economy. And so that process will be coming out and discussed and ratified over the course of the next few months. We're looking at adding a second collateral. The contenders on the entertaining signaling voted gateway were Osmosis or Osmosis.
Osmo, faked Adam, wrapped Bitcoin, and I know I'm missing one, and then someone will beat me up when I don't have this image in front of me, but maybe someone will try him in with it. When you say staked Adam, it was st- Adam.
Was the particular one that presumably that means that there was a bunch of stride people at the conference right? So someone also the most entertaining one if we had a prize for the most entertaining was wrapped Monero But which got one vote right? But but in any case they're working on
that. There's also a lot of work by folks in the Cosmos ecosystem. There are people, you know, especially me because I keep encountering not having the right token when I want it that are starting to roll out getting IST as an acceptable gas token on other chains so that as new people from outside come into the
And they can get one currency and they can move their NFT from stars to cross sex, or whatever. The experience I had is I had to pay build for sponsorship of some conference. And so I moved build Osmo and then I wanted to pay it to someone and their Osmo address and oh crap, this account does not have Osmo.
buy ST, can I pick? No, I, you know, and I had to jump through all sorts of hoops because I couldn't just use something that reflected money to pay for gas to get, you know, a little bit of business done. And so we can really lower the barrier entry by getting, by getting more ability to use more, you know, more payment tokens for fees. So it's easy to move among change.
There are folks like Akash and Omniflex that are setting up to have, you know, Axel Organic Demand for Stable where you'll be able to buy tickets with IST, you'll be able to pay for a website or GPU time in Akash deployment.
with IST, those kinds of things. So we're really looking forward to working with, you know, to, I mean, and a GORIC is a software writer, we support those guys, right? I mean, you know, this is, this is software they want to know how to use. We're happy to help them with that. As they get excited to be able to, you know, integrate IST into, to all the kinds of uses#
Awesome, beautiful. And there's something that I always like to do, and these two are students of the space, is to allow ourselves to dream a bit. And look way beyond the next weeks or months, or whatever we tend to do here in crypto, because the ecosystem is moving so fast.
And I want to sort of, you know, which is self in a situation where we sit here, I don't know, 10 years from now. I think you're a figure number, right? And look back at what had happened in the inter protocol, and IST has accomplished. What would make you proud, man?
when you sit there 10 years, 15 years, whatever from now, what would you say is sort of like, okay, if we manage to do this in this period of time, we have ultimately succeeded. What would you look back on and make yourself proud? Well, okay, so I expect to have plenty of things to be proud of long before then.
You know, this summer, the first third party app getting a transaction on a GORAC, that's what I want to look back on. You know, that'll be a sea change in what's possible in the world. So to me, I think the big thing, you know, I wanted to add one more wrinkle to the previous question that
It leads right into this, which is a lot of the reason for IST on a GORC is the extensibility where someone can add liquidation insurance into the liquidation process. So instead of me getting liquidated, I've been paying someone a fee, they'll cover my debt, and suddenly I don't pay my Adam and I don't get liquidated.
And I don't have to be taxes on on capital gains on my out of whatever and I want to see Third parties building these components, right? We've designed a system and we already have some third parties building stuff But you know that engine is working when someone I've never met builds a
component that someone else I've never meant is excited about and uses to launch their business. And so I'm going to look back and point at specific ones of those where we enabled an infrastructure for total strangers to cooperate and build a better world. And, you know, partly I want to live in that better world.
world and I want to live in a world where a million developers have been making it better not just a few thousand because that will simply be a thousand times more better. That's really what I want to be able to look back on is that the stuff we've built has been enabling technology
to a bunch of cooperation that we can only dream of now. I mean, I can imagine every time I look at a vertical industry, I can see ways in which instead of having a monolith squatting on this industry like Tick-and-Master, you can have many smaller businesses adding
rich individual kinds of services creating a much better experience for all the users that work with it and enabling many more people to do something interesting and innovative in smaller groups cooperating with people that they like. And my model of lots of small business success
that's cooperating, blockchain is the vehicle for doing that. And cooperating smart contracts is one of the primary mechanisms for doing that. And so that's what I want to look back on. The fact that this will also help us cooperate well with our future AI business partners, that's just a win.
Beautiful man. Beautiful. Being, is there something that we left out today? Is there something you want to ask the community to do, even? Something that I mean obviously go follow both the COREG and the protocols. Yeah. But what would you like us to do before we close this thing off?
So within the next month, there'll be a bunch of developer resources coming in the next month. They'll be developer resources. Get ready to start building in the OO manner, in the ability to do control of other things on the extended intershane ecosystem and think real hard about
The end users out there that we want to surprise and delight with the functionality that Web3 can bring. We all need to shift gears to bridging to those end users. The Egoroc platform will be a big help in that, but think about it and then we'll
make it easy to build that, that's the goal. So, come back in a couple of months and start building here. >> That'd be a word out for all the JavaScript developers and many more to shout out to them. Thank you so much, Steve, for coming today. It has been super informative and
and marry aspiring, at least I think. And I'm sure looking at the number of people who are still here after one hour of talking together, I think most people will agree. We'll reach out to the people that ask questions that we blended in throughout the space. So no need to DM us. We will
the winners of the giveaway. So yeah, thank you so much to you for coming on and I'm sure it's not going to be the last time that we hear from you guys at the Gorygan into protocol. Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you all for listening. It's been great fun. Great questions. Take care, man. Bye.