Hello everyone and welcome to the club. I can see Jimmy Brandon. People are starting to tune in. Let me just invite you to speak but sometimes it works better to just request to speak.
You should receive the invite.
You never know exactly like the taboo is also
Hey there, welcome to the club. Thanks man, it's good to be here. Definitely. Let's talk while it's today, huh? Mike check one, too.
How are you guys doing today?
Doing good. It's busy, busy, busy, but doing well. No losses from the SSE any any time this this past week. No lawsuits, nothing like that. I mean, we did have a fight with the app store a few weeks ago, but once we got past that, there's no real red tape anymore.
Yeah, it feels like everybody has, especially in crypto, has to fight Google Play and the App Store guys, but in the end, we prevail. Yeah, for sure. All right. So, yeah, I don't know.
I also invited the main account. I don't know if that's, but anyways, we got everybody I think that should be able to speak. I just want to make sure before we, before we die. Yep. Yep, this is Timmy on here and I'll be using this account. Hey, Timmy. Good to see you. All right then.
Let's dive in. Welcome everyone to the Cosmos Club where we talk about things like Cosmos, which we did about what's going on. And then we invite interesting, fascinating, hardworking builders of the Cosmos ecosystem. And today we are honored to have the great guys from Taboo, but you guys are also involved in other projects. Welcome guys.
Thank you, man. Thank you. Yeah, we're personally I'm involved in Oomi Oho sort of like all of the Oomi ecosystem if you could say that Yeah, maybe we should start there actually I didn't intend to to get started there, but not that you not that you mentioned and
How does it all connect? I can see a lot of synergy, but yeah, how do they come together? All these different projects. Yeah, so the way it works is like, Oomi has a pretty collaborative environment and it's
It's truly like a pretty decentralized company, like pretty flat organization in terms of structure. So it's a lot of support. And so when people have ideas, we tend to hear them out. And that's kind of where all this stuff happened. I mean, we were talking about, you know, doing an Oracle a long time ago, obviously because
I mean, the way Oho started is we tried to go to band, didn't really get a response. They couldn't really handle a lot of the stuff we wanted to do. So we built our own Oracle. We originally forked Terra's implementation, had to rewrite it in GoLang, and added a bunch of features to it, added history.
historical to it. And eventually it got to the point where all of Cosmos has this Oracle issue. And so we decided, hey, why don't we give this for Oracle to the ecosystem? Juneau can use it. Sorry, secret. All of the ecosystem can use it. It's a benefit to everybody. And eventually
it can probably form into a pretty formidable inner-tune or cool business. And so that's one of their, obviously there's synergies between UMI because we need a powerful Oracle and if that can live on its own, I think everyone benefits from it. There's even talk about like even like a Mars protocol using it on something like Neutron.
So really cool stuff happening there taboo similarly formed out of need for a great mobile UX. I mean it started with it just a general wallet need. We were we were using Kepler primarily on the Ethereum side we were using metamask and both were just
It just the UX of both were lacking in ways that we identified and we didn't see the development happening as fast as we needed it to advance Cosmos and if Cosmos doesn't advance it'd be very hard for UMI to advance as well. All of the projects kind of have this.
I'll jump in with my favorite analogy here. Like I think a problem in all of Web 3, but especially Cosmos in the inner chain. Is that right now wallets kind of feel
They feel like if your mobile banking app took you, every time you did a transfer, it took you to the Swift payment website or ACH clearing house or whatever country might be in the like third party service that they used to do transfers or investments or whatever. But what people want as has been proven in Web 2 is just an all-in-one
one app where you kind of do everything in one place and it feels cohesive and you don't have to be super technically knowledgeable about the specifics of what's going on under the hood because it should just feel like one thing. That's sort of the vision of cosmos, right? Different chains, different apps, but feeling unified and like one thing and that's kind of what we're going for. Yeah, exactly. And literally the
the sort of like the the catalyst of all of this was I was sitting there kind of I'm a D Gen like full on Cosmos I mean every protocol I mean every token in some ways or another and I've incurred a lot of loss because of that so I hope you guys support that but you know being on all the Juno takes one to no one
Yeah, yeah, for sure. So I've got the full like Cosmos investor cloud meme going on right now, but Yeah, so I mean all of these different protocols and I want to use them all and so I would have to open you know one tab on my Chrome browser or Brave browser for Kepler then it have to open another tab for osmosis to do a swap
And another tab for UMI to do some lending, another tab for Mars as long as I'm not in the U.S. to do some lending in that capacity too. And you know you have you get to the point where if you're using a lot of these different protocols you probably have like at least 100 tabs open on your browser. And so that's literally
really where the name tab who comes from, it's Japanese for tabs. We wanted to really focus on eliminating that tab. You shouldn't have to live in a world where everything is this different system, it's different front end. We want to build the universal UI for all of crypto, not just for cosmos, but for everybody.
One of the cool benefits that Cosmos gets from this is really we're focusing on that inner chain vision a lot of the wallets today feel multi chain they don't feel interchange so if you look at Kepler you look at me even leap leap is probably my favorite wallet outside of taboo and it's still tough because you have to everything
is broken down by chain. And that's not really inner chain. If you have to go from chain to chain, it's very much a multi chain effect. It's like kind of using MetaMask where you have to like flip back and forth. And so that's what we wanted to organize is that how can we create a UI or UX that basically integrates all of the
Cosmos together and then eventually when we expand past cosmos now we've got this cool UX that can work with all these different chains Cosmos is probably the hardest one to build for because everything is its own chain, right? But when we're ready to expand it like an Ethereum or the L2s or Solon or whatever the case may be that integration is ready to go
And now those audiences are opened up to like this cool UX where it's really easy to use an Osmos. It's really easy to use Juno or Dowdow or whatever the case may be. And so that's eventually what we want to add back to the inner chain ecosystem. Beautiful. I mean the best technology falls in the background.
I think we all agree on that already, especially people in customers. We like the customer stack. We buy into the IBC setup, but the beauty of it is that it can really fall in the backgrounds or in a working in a VBC, for example. But of course, it requires a wallet
that also has that setup. As you say, like most of all, let's Kepler, the leap, we had all of them, all of them here on the cost of the club, but they are various sort of segment between the different chains, like, okay, choose your network and then you can send between networks if you want. On Kepler, it's quite tedious, you know, you have to add the channel ID,
and all that jazz. But yeah, it's very like, it seems like the consensus right now is very much okay. Choose your network and then do whatever you need on that network. So it sounds like you guys flipping that sort of like the network you don't have to choose from the get go. Talk to us perhaps about the
approach that you take compared to other ones. Yeah, so the inner chain approach, at least for the UX that we are focusing on, and keep in mind we're focusing on mobile UX first, just because that's what we thought was like the biggest missing piece of the puzzle for Cosmos. Like, Kepler 2.0 kind of takes steps towards going inner chain, Leap definitely has a beautiful experience.
for the most part. But like mobile is where we thought we could do the most damage in terms of like opening up things. You know like for most of these apps, you don't have like you don't even have like a decentralized browser. So you kind of are at the mercy of the app to add your functionality, especially like like look at Kepler, right? Like
You have to pay a certain amount of fee in order to get in there and it's understandable because they need like RPCs and stuff to run. But at the end of the day, you should be able to just use a browser, go to any site on Cosmos, go to White Whale, go to, I don't know, like I see persistence on here. They're not usually added to a lot of like persistence isn't typically something inside that like#
The huge chains that are in Cosmos that get a lot of those benefits They shouldn't have to feel like a second class citizen They should be able to just be used in the wallet as anyone else So that's the type of experience that we're trying to build and so the way that looks is we've kind of used the mental models or like kind of the UI
styles of a lot of existing apps and try to use like what's the best one, what works best for the inner chain, and so you'll see a lot of familiarity within the app. We've got a nav bar at the bottom. The home screen is primarily where you'll go to see all of your portfolio, and a lot of this is kind of informed by my history.
So I've spent probably like most of my early career building digital banking apps were like financial institutions, you know, of various sizes from like a couple billion in terms of assets all the way up to like a TD Ameritrade. And so when I was doing that kind of like what what today
was saying from the taboo account is all of these digital banking apps, they feel like this beautiful cohesive experience, you can see all of your financial products, you can even do some investing through the chase apps, stuff like that, but they're actually like 30 to 40 different systems behind the scenes that are all connected with APIs.
like a blockchain ecosystem. If you look at appchains and if you understand how a digital banking system works or how a track fight works, you'll see exact parallels. That's the exact experience we're trying to build. On the home screen, you'll see all of your assets across the board. It's almost like a portfolio management like a
You'll see all your earned positions, meaning like RUNLP, Staking, all that good stuff. From there you can actually drill down into a chain level view. Say for example, you're big on Adam. You want to see what's going on in the hub. From the home screen you'll be able to see all of the different Gov props for
the chains that you stake on. But if you want to drill down into one specific, you just click Adam, shows you all the Cosmos hub stuff, and then you can get deeper in there. We're going to be releasing some walkthroughs on the UI, and we're also going to be opening up the beta access soon so that everyone can play with this, because I know it's kind of hard to explain over voice.
Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think you did a great job, but having a purely audio is a tough challenge to explain to work through the UX. But I think something that comes to mind at least is your approach is somewhat opposite to, for example,
what Kojira is doing with the solar wallet where there are super focused on the Kojira ecosystem. Of course, you can send assets via IPC to other chains, but it's very much evolving around the Kojira ecosystem in general, the features in the app. You guys still, you're mobile
first. So that's how you compare to Sona, which is quite exciting in general, but still not my first, but then trying to make it with an interchain approach, moving as it's between seamlessly, between networks. Is that correctly understood at all? Yeah, that's correct. And I don't want to bash anybody. Like I think what they're
doing is absolutely correct for what they're building sonar for. They're building sonar to advance the KUJI, like the KUJIRA ecosystem, which makes 100% sense. And I think that there's a space for both of them to exist. What we ultimately want is taboo to be almost like this, like, inner chain app, where you can go to see all of the best rates, all of the
best all the cool new things across crypto as a whole. But for Kujee, for Kajira to expand their ecosystem, it just makes sense for Sonar to focus on theirs because they have sort of the primitives of every single type of defy that you can think of, you know, lending, swap, all that good stuff.
For taboo, the strategy is a little different. We want to be able to say, "Okay, well, like, could Giraffeine might be the best place to get the price on this asset, but maybe Osmosis is better in some ways, maybe persistence is like Dexter Zone, or Dexter app is good in another way, or maybe even like Comdex is good in some ways."
Our thing is about getting the best rates for people across the inner chain as possible and then getting the best prices for swaps, getting the best prices for NFTs, stuff like that. So ultimately it's more of an aggregator versus like that single unified ecosystem or unified chain approach.
make sense, make sense. And yeah, I mean, I bring up so now obviously because the timing is pretty, like you guys are pretty close in terms of timing. They're, I think they're better right now. You can download the better app on iOS and Android if I'm not mistaken. And you guys are soon to be
be available also. So yeah, it seems like there is a multiple different wallets coming to customers, but I think it's on the tongue of most people now. Why should they switch from Kepler? I think by far the majority of people coming to customers, they use Kepler, including myself. You said the same thing.
Just like most people they use metamask on the theorem and there can be multiple reasons, but I want to give you a chance to to make that argument why people should switch from something like Kepler, which I think yeah, most people is using on a day-to-day basis and there's a friction
if you will, to move away from the sort of default option that people use in general ecosystem. So why should people move from capital to to to Google? Yeah, absolutely. I think I think it's actually less friction than you might think. I think Kepler for the most part has kind of existed in the C ecosystem where it doesn't have a lot of competition. And if it
does that competition has a lot of ground to make up. But I think that with leap especially, you've seen that more and more people are open to different wallets. And I think they're hungry for a different UX. You've seen some pretty good success with like Osmosis is opening up their site to different wallets.
and they've suddenly reached out to us too. So that's cool. He kind of committed to supporting us eventually once we have a browser extension and all that good stuff. So and you can connect Osmosis using wallet connect through the taboo app already as well. So all good there. And so that sort of like competitive environment that
Now people are kind of open to these different wallets. And I think especially with like Kepler 2.0 I think a lot of people were underwhelmed by it and in some ways a little bit perturbed by it. And so I think that these things have kind of opened up the ecosystem. I think people want great mobile UX as well.
So that's kind of the general sentiment, but in terms of like exact features, I think people are going to want to use a mobile app that has DeFi built directly into it so that I don't have to go to like, I'll give you an example. I'm in the US. I want to use Mars. If I go to leap right now and I
go to the Mars in their DAP browser, it won't let me use it. And that's tough because I want to use the best DeFi that's available. Maybe they have better rates in Umi, maybe they can have some cool stuff. Instead of going that approach, what we're going to do is build it directly into the app.
So instead of going to a browser or going to their site, it's going to be directly integrated into our lending aggregator. And that UI will not show you like Mars versus Zoom, it'll just show you the best rates for any asset that you want. And I think over time, people are going to want to, you know, focus on that.
that. Like they want to chase you, they want to get the best rates for what they can do. And if we can supply that to them, I think naturally they'll come over. Yeah. My talks. Yeah. I'm like, uh, I need to run answer into that question as well. Um, completely agree with everything Brandon said. Obviously.
But another sort of angle. I think that the general premise of what the cosmos offers, the reason a lot of people have chosen this ecosystem over others and hopefully, you know, why we would want to make new people checking us out, want to stay.
that that is something that in at least in part can only be achieved with a proper wallet. Like the very appeal of cosmos itself is I think the answer to why people will want to go through the relatively little hassle of making a wallet switch because although
Although all these protocols might exist and you can use them in the core of what makes Cosmos great, I think people often get lost in terms of forgetting what the average like newish user's experience is, or even just the average frequent user who doesn't go too deep into stuff.
It doesn't really matter that something like thin might exist if the wallet they're already signed up for doesn't let them know about it or let them access it easily. So the very core of what makes cosmos appealing I think can only be unlocked by a wallet that understands that and builds for it. So kind of like a philosophical answer in a way
But just sort of embodying what the original promise of cosmos was the main thing that we're offering and that we hope will drive people to try us out. Yeah, if I could just add one thing to that. I mean, you brought up philosophical, so I'll bring up some psychology to this. But like, I think one of the biggest issues right now in cosmos is like,
your classic prisoners dilemma, it's like everyone wants to like wear this ecosystem that's supposed to be the inner chain, right? And there's so much, I mean, people talk about the drama a lot, right? And part of that is this kind of like maximalism that comes from projects, right? Like, and it's natural. Like if you build a project, do you want your project to be used?
matter what. And so if your project also is involved in the wallet, say the way Osmosis is involved in Kepler, you're going to want to emphasize the projects that are in your ecosystem. Like I'll give you an example. When we when we launched UMI for the mobile app, we may get into Kepler a priority.
right. And so we, because everything that was added into Kepler's mobile site in the DAP browser was based on order of first come first serve. So as long as you got in there first, you were in that page and we wanted to be in the first page. So we spent all this time, we did all this effort, we got Umie in there, they approved it, they said the UX was good. And then once more
And so, but what happened was Mars was actually a lot of people were talking about Mars, but Mars was actually a lot of people were talking about Mars, but Mars was actually a lot of people were talking about Mars, but Mars was actually a lot of people were talking about Mars, but Mars was actually a lot of people were talking about Mars, but Mars was actually a lot of people were talking about Mars, but Mars was actually a lot of people were talking about Mars#
developers is that we are focused on the interchange. We're kind of following that kind of Nash's equilibrium where it's like rather than competing with people and trying to like gatekeep and focus on our own projects, we're going to emphasize everybody it's going to be fully market driven and anybody can use any product there. And I think ultimately users will get benefits from that.
So just to stay on that subject the comparison to Kepler and the integrations because I think a lot of people they obviously have the Kepler extension, web app extension and then they might also have the mobile app but the mobile app feels almost like okay we started on web and now we need a mobile app
a lot of people use mobile phones all the time. And then you have this sort of app menu item, which you open up. And then there are sometimes random integrations. It seems like there's no structure at this. And then boom, something pops up like Mars, you mentioned. So how
It just seems a little random, you know, just sitting from afar, observing. So you guys talk about integrations. How do you do the implementations with all these different ecosystems and change? Because I can see it's a challenge, right? I mean there's chains, app chains popping up left and right in in cosmos, which is great. Yeah. Cosmos is
grow. But how do you keep up with this? Yeah, absolutely. So we've set an initial vision of what we want to integrate. Obviously, like the big ones, like we've got swaps through osmosis, staking on all the chains. We've integrated basically everybody that's not a Cosmos EVM that takes a little bit more work. That'll be out as a fast fall or after V1.
But yeah, we're just focused on adding as much support as possible and then focusing on what people actually use the cool part of what we're planning to do is We want to be a Dal-based wallet and what I mean by that is Timmy can kind of kind of get into this a little bit more But we're planning an NFT launch called the tabulators. We don't plan to make any more
money off of this, we're going to airdrop everything to everyone. They're really cool sort of like designed with our tabbie or tabbie later logo, you can see the little eyes on our logo. He's a little block character for blockchains. And so we've kind of modified him to have different, it's like a celebration of the cosmos. Like the osmosis one has
has the osmosis, the vial, and has like the goggles and everything like that, has the wasmunked in hair, and there's some persistence ones, we've included like custom ones for all the major validators and stuff, and we're going to release that, and then that NFT project will form the basis of a
And if you have one of those NFTs, you'll be able to vote on signaling props that kind of inform where the direction goes. So say for example, the community really wants like, I don't know, they want to integrate. I'll use, I'll, I see on, so you're here. So neutron, right? Like say they really want new
But say our developers just they're not paying attention to that because like you said it's so hard right can seem random Well someone that's an owner of one of the NFTs Can just jump in and create a signaling proposal. We're still kind of planning on where to have this the most likely is like the Dowdow fork
that's going on Stargaze since it's an NFT. And then from there, people can vote on it, people can tell us how we're doing, they can tell us what features they like, what features they don't like. Basically, what we want to create is this open network of feedback that we can get all sorts of cool new opportunities, because I don't think anyone actually runs a wallet that out in the open.
beautiful. That's awesome man. That's great to hear and exactly what we think we need in the customer ecosystem. It's very closed. Like Kajira is getting a lot of flag for being closed source. Solar wallet is no exception. Kepler has all kinds of
drama and rumors around them with the fees that they charge and how they do things you also alluded to it earlier with how they rank different projects so yeah having something that is more open and transparent is just sweet music in our ears over at the club one of the biggest issues in cosmos too is the
Sort of disparity between the community and devs, right? Like there's all this like drama where it's like the community wants one thing the devs want another and there's just like natural sort of like friction between those two things and there's no real great way like you can go on Twitter You can throw out your opinion there you can go on a discord and your message might get lost and like a million other ones
right? But like having this sort of like governance process where it's very clear and it's very easy to vote on, I think makes it a little bit more official. And so we can have like this place and all of this can be integrated directly into the taboo app, which is really cool too. Like we're planning a host of governance features and obviously we want our own Dow to be
What kind of the guinea pig of that? So how does the roadmap look like? I mean, assuming people are listening still after almost half an hour, I think they're pretty bought into, okay, this is something I want to try. So when can people expect to be able to download? Like, talk to us about the roadmap. Yeah, absolutely. So we're trying to get a
beta release going for July. I'm going to be attending awesome wasm in like the second week of July and also like Osmo Con and all that cool stuff. So we'd love to be able to show it to everybody when we get there. So yeah, if you're going to any of those conferences, hit me up. Love to show you a demo and get you on the beta as well.
But that's the timing for the beta release. We have basically in-app swaps done in-app staking. We had an in-app auto compounding feature that got flagged by the I/O by the app stores. We had to take it out. But we're planning to integrate with stuff like ares for example. I'm sorry, not ares like yield most or
Maybe the RESTake app to get that going. So it's not like a direct product of ours. So yeah, we have kind of like a whole list of features that we'll be releasing. That list will be coming out probably this week or the next. And then from there, the roadmap is really twofold. So one, we want to focus on expanding the
the chains that we support. That's not as difficult as some of the cool features that we're planning to build, so that will happen fast. Things like Cosmos EVM, so we can get Evmos, and especially like the cool chains that are planning to launch like Baruchain is one of the projects I'm looking at a lot.
and all of the cool EVM stuff. That's one of the things on our docket. We also want to make sure that we can support basic EVM as well, which we already do in the app. We just haven't refined it to the point that we would actually say, like, "Hey, use this as your Ethereum wallet too." And that way we can integrate like Axler bridging directly in app.
So that you can bridge, say from the therium into osmosis help you all from within the same UI. So that's one focus is kind of the breadth and then going deeper into certain features is the next is the focus after that. So that's all about aggregation. So we have a basic swap feature will
integrate a basic lending feature with like Umi for example. But what we want to do there to take it to the next step is we want to build aggregators out for all of these things. So Dex aggregator get like osmosis going with like shade swap with all of the cool things that you're seeing. Neutron, Ashtroport, all that good stuff.
And then from there, there's kind of three or four primary aggregators that we're working on. There's the DECS aggregator, which is probably the first thing that we'll release. And then there's the Lending Aggregator, which basically just focus on where can you get the best yield for your assets, where can you get the best
And then finally there's the, well, it's kind of going off the lending aggregator, but it's like a stablecoin minting, which is very similar in terms of practice for like what you would do for lending, but a little bit different of a use case from the user's perspective. So we're still kind of scoping out how that'll work.
work in with that, whether it will be the same feature or separate. And finally is the NFT aggregator. So right now from taboo you can see all your OmniFlix NFTs, you can see all your Stargaze NFTs, but you can't really do much with them because that's frowned upon by the App Store. And so what we'll be doing
is building on an aggregator functionality so that you can basically see all of your NFTs, see if they're available on multiple marketplaces, see where you can sell them and then handle the bridging and all that stuff is, or the transferring and all that stuff as well. So all that shit, that's kind of our roadmap, it's pretty ambitious, but I think we've got the team to do it.
And I'm sure that this will only grow as the Cosmos ecosystem grows. And yeah, it's great to see, man. It sounds like you're almost become like a gateway of aggregators. One thing that you mentioned just now, which I really look forward to, is the stablecoin issue or mending aggregators.
There are so many stablecoins at this point, so many different yield opportunities with that. If you look towards the Ethereum ecosystem, also there's all these LSDs, they were taking derivatives or assets where you can then also mint stablecoins and I'm sure it's going to
grow continuously in Cosmos as well, where you can mint with, I don't know, SD add-on or whatever liquid state glasses. So yeah, I mean having that all aggregated up in a wallet sounds extremely convenient compared to what I have today. I have to go in and check it
So yeah, I would definitely look forward to it. Definitely. I think that's how like that's probably our monet our major monetization process or strategy is like if we can build all these convenience features these aggregators and charge like a small like convenience fee for those things. Something that
Obviously, it has to work within the bounds of like if you're getting a cheaper trade by using our aggregator, maybe part of that spread is given back to taboo as revenue. That's kind of like what we're planning as the monetization strategy and it's worked for like things like Metamask in the past. But ultimately what that allows to do is to
support everyone without needing to charge hefty fees, as long as we're having some sort of revenue share. I saw a question there about the Apple App Store. That probably will have to be some sort of revenue share because I know they're pretty serious about it, but I think we'll figure that out once we're ready to monetize.
Yeah, that was a ditch asking that question. Thank you for answering that directly. Something that you also mentioned, which I want to dwell on a little bit, is about the EVM chains and EVM wallets for that matter. You mentioned bearer chain. So first question is what excites you about bearer chain? It occurs to hear that. And second, do you think there will be these EVM wallets
it's maybe not menomask but other smaller wallets perhaps from the Ethereum ecosystem moving to Cosmos. I mean they kind of blend together now with EVMAS and canto and perichain and all the different Ethereum compatible chains that are built on Cosmos. So yeah do you think that's the second question? Do you think
EVM compatible wallets will start moving to the other side of the pond to to customers. Yeah, sorry. What was the first? Oh, okay. What excites me about bear chain and do I think so let me answer the second question first because it's easier so Metamask is coming to Cosmos if anyone's not aware. There's there's currently an effort. Mystic labs John is heading it up.
I've been in conversations with him about this for Umi to get supported there and they're building out this kind of cool insta-depth type feature on desktop that will look pretty cool and integrate like some some of those cosmos protocols in there. So yeah, that's coming and that's kind of expected right like that is a great gateway for cosmos to get more users.
And it's also great for taboo because if we can build a strong base and we can get excitement around the community for us, then when those meta-mask users come over to cause with experience all those cool things, that can become a funnel for us as well. So we don't look at that as a competition thing. It'd be very hard for taboo to go head-to-head with meta-mask, right?
share size and scale. But where we can compete is diversity of features, convenience, UX, which I think is obviously the biggest weakness of metamask. I mean, the coolest innovation they've had, like in the last, I don't know, a couple of years is those two giant buttons they threw out the bottom of the UI, which
I'm not a big fan of if you can tell so I think they provide a very different type of service than what we will and I think both can co-exist so definitely excited for that. On the bear chain stuff I think bear chain is one of the coolest chains that's going to be launching in cosmos just because of their ideas around liquidity.
I share a lot of ideas or things of ways of looking at the ecosystem as they do. They understand capital efficiency and they also understand that they kind of walk that fine line between serious
and memes. Like they understand both sides. I think you'll see that with taboo as well. Like we're gonna be, I mean obviously our logo is a silly guy with eyes looking at you, right? Like we're not that serious. And it's called taboo. But there's a serious side to us in that we're bringing like these years of like, tradfly experience and
digital banking and we're bringing those serious mental models but to a fun ecosystem. So definitely big up on on bearer chain. I think it's going to be huge. Nice. I mean, something that I keep thinking about listening to you, Brandon and obviously you also to me is when I first
started to do research on Sabu and all that. People here at the club, they said, "Ah, another wallet, I mean, don't we have enough wallets?" I mean, there's just so much, there's such a red ocean at this point. But really, when I look at the adoption and the struggle that newbies go through and try
when they try to get into not just the customers, customers is particularly technical and difficult for people actually to to enter. So there's definitely room for improvement, I think, and it starts at the world level if you ask me. And that's why we need for whatever the UX and UI
and the functionality is going to be, I don't know, you guys know better than me, but I think whenever people say, "Why don't you need another wallet?" I think, "Well, just look at adoption, man. I mean, we're so far away from where we all want to be." And there's a lot of people that don't have no clue.
what's going on in DeFi and all the exciting stuff that you can do when you show them on your wallet, they're like, damn, you can mint stablecoins, you can take out a loan, like all these different things that would take granted in DeFi and in Cosmos today. There's so many people who have no clue about that. So I just want to throw that out there when people, I'm sure you hear the same
thing, why do we need to wallet? There's probably one of the first questions that you hear when you talk about taboo. So yeah, just want to throw that out there. I don't know. There's no question there. I just want to mention that. Yeah, I personally think, and this happens super frequently, like I don't hold it against anyone, but I think when people jump to that,
of why do we need another wallet? I think it's a sign that you've kind of fallen too deep into the Web3 rabbit hole and lost touch with what the average user's experience is because the answer to why another wallet is very simple. It's because the existing ones are not good enough. We forget how much
make or break point your first couple of interactions in Web3R and pretty much across the board, well entirely across the board if you're not counting centralized exchanges, that first interaction point is the wallet. First impressions are everything, drop off rates for usage is like one of the most important metrics in any apps adoption
And not even app in this case technology all of web 3. So I just kind of think fundamentally like going back to the list of deaps and Kepler. I think a great example of what we're kind of fundamentally trying to do different is you know most wallets either have
web browser, in app type browser, where you know let the user navigate to whatever they want and if it's supported by wallet connector, whatever that might work, or they have a list of deapps somewhere like Kepler. And I think both of these design philosophies come, they're already a bit antiquated. They come from when like
Mark contracts and DApps were still kind of the new hot thing in Web3 and so they were their own section. And no one has stepped back and thought about the fact that one DApp doesn't necessarily have anything to do with another. An NFT marketplace and a Dex are so fundamentally different that some users might really never care about one
while caring about the other. So rather than doing a list of all D apps as if like that was the thing to aggregate, we're kind of going with the philosophy of aggregating and categorizing by function. So you go to your NFT section and you access all NFT related stuff there. You go to the Lending Embarrowing section.
stuff is accessible there. The DEX feature, everything Brandon was talking about. It sounds good on paper, obviously. But then I think when you take an extra second to kind of step back and think about what it means for the UX for an average user, the people were targeting for mass adoption. It's like, it's not just a small UX quality.
life improvement. It's like a fundamental difference in the way people experience and come away thinking about Web 3 when they like first try it out. Yeah, and just like just add like it I know it's a wallet right like that's the core functionality but it's just yeah I if it was just another wallet I agree with
say it for me personally. I was like someone
trades a lot and as someone who LPs a lot and looks for the best rates and is super degen in some aspects, I don't really necessarily care. I get into the community as well but I want to be able to find these things very fast. A lot of front ends are either geo restricted or there may
maybe they're just not good, maybe they're broken. If someone can create a universal UI that just works and I can do everything I want from it, and as long as that UI is good as well, then I'm going to use it. And that's kind of like, I mean, in a way, sometimes the best products that are built are built by people who are just building that product
for themselves. And in some ways we're building taboo for ourselves. We're super users, but we're also kind of normies as well. And we want to fill that niche. Crypto is great for the prosumer ecosystem. It's like that, but the person that maybe, a lot of Cosmos users are also dead.
in a sense. So for us it's like super easy right? Like well not easy but it's manageable but for the guy that's never looked at a piece of code before and you're screaming you know not your keys not your not your crypto check the source code all this stuff they don't want to hear that and so we're trying to build an app for that basically.
Makes sense man. I'm curious to hear what's your favorite DJI play right now Brandon in the in Cosmos. This is totally non-related to top of the way we weren't we gonna get Brandon's take on Baruchin. Oh, I think I gave it
Oh, did you? I guess I missed that. My favorite DJ in play does not exist yet, but it's something I'm thinking about building for Umi. So I really like Somalia. So Somalia has some really good features like a real EF, USD.
This isn't that region, actually. This is like more just like sustainable yield, but I'm going to make it a little bit more DGEN. So there's that real ETH that real ETH yield strategy that they got. And so what it does is it gives you a token and then you give it ETH and that ETH is then used to mint
like STE or some other derivatives and then it's looped a bunch of times using like AVE, for example on one of the L2s or maybe it's on mainnet, I don't know the case, but ultimately you earn like 10% APY on that. What you can then do, what we'd like to build to be honest, is take that eth
And mind you, this is all pretty low price risk. The only thing that's a risk here is like systemic risk or protocol risk with that liquid-staking provider if that were to tank. Very unlikely, but it can happen. So you have to say that. But what you can then do is take that real, real, real, eth,
token from Somalia bring it over to Umi and then loop it even more with more ease. That's deep gen as I won't curse on your problem. That's a guess. That's deep gen. That's a guess. And I'd love to build that out. So if Somalia is listening, Zachy, anyone out there would love to build
that up. I'd love to loop that. I'd love to loop the real USD yield that they've got going as well. I mean, pretty much every single one of their strategies can be looped even more using Oomi. And so I think that eventually will that will become the DGEN play that's kind of safe. And then there's also like, I don't know, there's not too
many opportunities right now because everyone's kind of going down this real yield. A direct and... -Rypetal. -Yeah, there's some good ones. I mean, one I'm doing right now is I'm saying... -You mean you're not... you mean you're not eating in the ox brand and... -Oh man. Oh man. Ox is a...
I can't believe they're letting those guys get away with it again, but it's all good. Hey man, you got the ecosystem you deserve, right? Like if people are taking into that, but no, that is the D Gen play. If you follow what's that guy's name to me? The Espera guy?
If you follow him, Bruce, yeah, that guy's fun. If you follow him, he's pumping that stuff like that's that's the DGN play. Yeah, get a 50X leverage play on ox and see what happens like. Yeah, be safe guys out there.
Not bad, that's exactly. All right, let's get back to Taboo then before we wrecked everybody on the Cosmos Club tonight. So that's a lot of stuff to dream a bit, perhaps. And think like way ahead, we like to think in the encryption and cost most weeks and maybe months ahead.
But that allows us to take like 5, 10 years, 15 year perspective. How do taboo look like 5, 10, 15 years from now? Is it a super app, as you mentioned, where you can do really anything in the on-chain or is there something else?
How does what is a vision really that you want to expand five to ten years taboo is defies version of a bank That's what I would say you'll have a debit card that you can spend usk or whatever the stable coin of choice is Directly from taboo you'll have your and it won't just be crypto
You'll have your tradfies checking account within the taboo app. You'll have your, you know, you might have a credit card that's based on crypto. You might have a credit card based on, you know, USD. All of it will be integrated into one real-world assets and DeFi will be one in the same and it'll all be done through taboo.
Yeah, I think a fun way to phrase it is, you know, a web three version of if you're banking app, then Mo and Robin Hood all had a baby. Nice. And I'm crossing fingers, guys, that the SSC won't
find some loophole to come after you for being a new form of bank. I really see that while it's something that could really solve the very political financial industry that we see
today. But that requires of course that there's no loophole or whatever we call it that allows them to come after you. I don't know. Do you see that happen? I mean, five, 10 years from now, is that a real risk that you see?
Sorry, my space just went totally haywire. Can you repeat that? You sound kind of like a robot. Yeah, no worries. I just really like to see wallets become, as you say, the new form of banks. I think the vision is just awesome to just think about.
But what worries me is what I see from the regulatory landscape we joked in the beginning about the SEC. So do you see that as a potential risk that some regulator comes after Wallace in general, not just Tapu, but any wallet that operates on chain. I think it's likely, but
But we didn't name taboo for no reason, right? Like, crypto is taboo again. And we don't give AF. I won't swear in your space. But, you know, we're not going to hide behind this kind of Web 3 brand. We're crypto. We're proud. We're going to take that up. And we're going to use, we want to take the ethos forward.
I didn't join crypto to try to recreate, you know, a tradfly, right? Like if I wanted to do that, I would have stayed at Amazon or stayed at, you know, work for a banker or a Fintech company. I came to crypto because I believe in the mission of DeFi, democratizing finance, giving people what they want, encouraging access to where people don't have it. And that's what I want to do.
So if we have to go to bat with some regulators on that, so be it. I'm happy to be that sort of a I'm happy to be the first one over the hill on that. Beautiful man. Beautiful. Being the Cosmos Club, obviously we are very Cosmos focused. How do you see a customer as the customers take?
the Cosmos ecosystem, anything Cosmos related to really, how do you see that sort of being of the important but also being able to write the wave if you will, the interchained wave. Do you see Cosmos as a sort of paramount piece without a successful Cosmos? There's no successful taboo.
What would you extend beyond? You already mentioned that you might be moving into EVM chains. How related to customer success? Strategically, obviously, we can pivot. What I mentioned was, Cosmos is probably the hardest ecosystem to get into because everything is
its own chain and everything is specific. It's difficult to integrate. I think that's why a lot of wallets stay away other than liquidity issues. But once we can get to that level, we'll have so much experience integrating with different chains that strategically, yeah, we could pivot if we wanted to, but we're not going to because
We started taboo as like this mission to increase Interchain UX and we believe in it like we wouldn't be building this or spending so much time on it if we didn't and so That's what we want to do. We want to improve Interchain UX if taboo were to fail two years from now to say you know it doesn't do anything other than inspiring capital
or maybe even Metamask to change their UX and improve it so that every other protocol can have a benefit from there than I think the mission is complete. That's our mission. Improve mobile UX, improve inner-chain UX, and just up to level up the bar for all of wallets. So, yeah, while we could pivot away and strategically
know will make choices like that. Definitely the goal is to stay in cosmos and make it more successful. Right on man. Guys, how do you want to close this thing off? How can the cosmos community help you? I mean, we totally buy into your vision and that's also why we want to
bring you up to a space like this. I think most people listening to this, they are at least a little curious and they definitely check you out. But how can we help as a community to make a taboo a thing of the future? Yeah, Lendus, your feedback, whether it's criticism, whether it's suggestions, really nothing to hide here. We're probably going to
So, if you want to start a weekly Twitter space to gather community feedback, when we release the beta, if you hate it, tell us that. Tell us what you hate about it, tell us what you love about it. Because ultimately, the only way to succeed is if it's community driven. And so, that's step one. Step two is tell us what you want to see in there.
If there's a particular chain, if there's a particular protocol, start, you know, if you can kind of do the groundwork of like, hey, this is a protocol we want. Hit us up in our comments, hit us up in the DM, hit me up, hit me up, whoever the case may be. Let us know what you want. That way we can hear that feedback. Because although we're in a lot of these things, it's#
with everything right. Like there's a lot of cool stuff happening on Neutron, on Archway, some of these like smart contract platforms that we're not fully aware of. So if you're a Maxi there, let us know what you want integrated so that we can start making that focus. And yeah, just keep up to date. Ultimately, like I said, this has to be community driven in order to be successful.
The opposite of the other things that we do, we do have a lot of different things that we do. So, we do have a lot of different things that we do. So, we do have different things that we do. So, we do have different things that we do. So, we do have different things that we do. So, we do have different things that we do. So, we do have different things that we do. So, we do have#
There will be a couple different ways to get NFTs, there will be some fun. Giveaways will be doing with other projects and validators and such. But then also the first X amount of users to sign up for the wallet will just get one. I think at the moment we might be keeping that number a surprise. But yeah, so hold on to the
NFTs if you want to get involved with everything Brandon's been talking about. >> And to Timmy's point, tell us who we should air drop to. That's a big part of this too, right? Like I see a shrew here. One of the people will be giving a certain amount of tabulators to is the Adora Squids project that he leads. We're also giving a bunch to the rack
the RACFM folks, the RACFUN supply guys, and we'll probably give some to other ecosystems as well. Just let us know who you want to, as long as it's not like Don Ramilios. No, I'm just kidding. We can give Don some too. But whoever it is, just-- Don can have some, but separate from the Ramilios.
Beautiful guys, I mean we'll make sure here at the club to follow you closely and share information about yeah giveaways on the NFT or obviously when you announce the wallet etc. So well done guys we are we are
We're rooting for you. Appreciate it, man. Awesome. And I mean, honestly, we'll probably send you guys a couple NFTs at some point to do as like a giveaway for your community here. So yeah, thanks for having us. Happy to share. Happy to share with the community. Sharing is caring.
100% man. Thank you for having us, dude. I appreciate you having us on a nowhere new project, but I really appreciate the the awareness.
Of course, and I'm sure it's not the last time that we hear from you. So yeah, always appreciate the MS women. Quick question for you, Club. Where I think it's always helpful for us to kind of find where people are discovering us and such. Did you just see a post from us on Twitter or where did you like find out about Taboo?
Yeah, I'm not sure actually it wasn't me personally we are a few people here at the club. It wasn't me but I think it's on Twitter. That's where we are 100% focused really everything that we do happens on Twitter. So yeah, I think it could probably just be a twit.
that someone did maybe from another account, I don't know, Yumi or Ocho, we also had Ocho on. That either tweeted or retweeted about you and then yeah we, someone from the club DM'd, yeah you guys.
glad they did. Thank you guys. That's normally how knowledge spreads, I think, in the crypto Twitter and Cosmos. And it works pretty well. I must say, it's pretty marvelous to see how information just spreads naturally and organically. It's
is beautiful. But yeah guys, thank you so much for coming on and I'm sure it's not the last time that we're here for you. So, Kibon, do your great work and if we look forward to try out the app. All right, thank you. Thank you. Take care. Take care guys. Ciao. Good one everyone. Thanks for listening.