Cosmos hosts, please. Let's check out check your speaker row. Good morning
Very good morning. Thank you very much for waking up so early
My pleasure, man, I wouldn't want to do anything else besides decrypt that so it's all good
Am just getting all the speakers on the platform just so give me a second
Alex are you calling in from the Network Operations Center this time?
Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm right there in the middle
Glad to hear it, man. Yeah, I hope it works
We were having a lot of troubles with spaces the last couple of days
Warpcast have spaces as well
Okay, so looks like all of us are here now
Except Zaki, I think Zaki was busy. So probably he could not join
Probably he will join in a little bit later
Without any delays, I welcome you all
first of all, thank you very much for making time out to
I have been always, you know, you're learning from
You guys building in cosmos ecosystem because I joined slightly later so I've been watching
Ankur, Sisla, Jeet, Cody, Alex
You know the main reason for me as well for joining the cosmos ecosystem over
Stack was that it is more like a very friendly place
For a builder specifically if you are like, you know
a developer kind of mindset and you want to slowly build
You know products that can add value to ecosystem and not get it to the hype game
Though over the period of time I learned both is important
But but that was my initial, you know, it was it came out to be very friendly space for me. So
Just wanted to share a little bit to start the conversation
But yeah, thank you very much. My name is Vikram. I'm one of the co-founder at hyper sign. I
started as a developer on the project, but
current role is more towards business development and marketing and
And yeah, so we'll quickly jump into the spaces
So so there is no proper structure, but but basically, you know, just
there are there people who don't know about cosmos and
There are people already from the cosmos space here in I am sorry house. Yeah, I know
So maybe we can start with slightly educative
Points pointers and then we can get into our usual shit chat
So overall the space revolves around two parts
I see like majority of the privacy protocols slowly adopting a cosmos SDK or
Switching from other SDKs to cosmos SDK. That's one
Views like for this today's topic and the second one is yeah, you know if we can educate the
The audience about what's happening what cool things are happening in cosmos that's that will be great
So I will but first of all, let's start with each of our introduction. So
Probably we can start with cosmos host and cisla uncle gee Cody and Alex
Well, good morning. I apologize if I'm greenery and dark right now cuz I'm still literally just woke up about five minutes before this
Yeah, it's just exciting cosmos is starting to be more of the talk of town and for all those that been in the space
Like I've been here in cosmos basically
Since like osmosis launch
That's really when I kind of found out about it and started to do a lot of recon and research and just was having a good
Time and I'm still I'm still having a good time. It's very communitarian. It's very
Yeah, it's just nice to see that all the different technologies are kind of helping one another out and add in value
And like you just indicated there's a lot of things that people have built or did build
That can't be the best versions of themselves without tapping into the cosmos SDK or or leveraging IBC and whatnot
So that's been kind of cool to see and from like a user perspective
There's less of a learning curve like yes
There still is learning curve that I think over hopefully over this year 2024
There will be all kind of different ways to account abstract and basically one-click transact which there already is and
That's gonna be great too. And yeah, so just excited to be here. Happy Friday everyone. Good morning
All right, I mean go next
Thank you again for putting this together
Morning to everyone in the US evening to everyone around Asia Europe
Glad to be here in the space with all of you. I'm a slob. We're building on the flicks the Indian media hubs
That's right. That's what we'd like to refer this as we use NFTs for creators and communities
We work with studios record labels
publishing houses and media distribution houses
to help them manage the street and
Completely passing is a key role
We couldn't be where we are today
To see all of this come together, right
Oh, I think we lost sistla. Are you still here? Oh, yeah, I was here. I think I just
Nobody's uncle. Maybe you can go next. Yeah
Hi, I'm glad to be here. I'm the CTO and co-founder at
Checked which is also a cosmos space chain and protocol working on digital ID solutions
The work that hypo sign has also been doing is it's great to see other implementations within cosmos. I think it's a huge ecosystem
And we've also been working on something more recently called creds dot XYZ
Which is designed as a way to make your on-chain and off-chain reputation
Very excited to talk about the various different ways in which cosmos protocols can interoperate with each other
And really get to the point where we have our data in our own control
Thank you for the introduction uncle jit probably you can go next
Thank you and good morning, everyone. Hi. My name is jit. I do partnerships and ecosystem at Agoric
Agoric is a layer one in cosmos and
views of version of JavaScript called hardened JavaScript
for secure smart contract creation
Yeah, I've been in space now since it's 2018
I remember reading the cosmos white paper back in the day and it's really been amazing to see
the ecosystem both ship the app chain thesis really play out and
we've had a couple big launches last year with both like Celesha and dyd X as well as a bunch of other amazing projects and
I'm sure gonna see a lot more of this year
Yeah, excited to be here and thanks for having us
Hey guys, thanks for having me on. Um, I'm Cody marks Bailey longtime blockchain advocate and innovator
Started the or created one of the co-creators of the ERC 721 standard on aetherium back in
Moved over to the cosmos wanted a better platform wanted better technology a better stack to be able to produce much more sophisticated and robust
On chain applications and that's where
That's where the Andromeda operating system came from it's a about 20,000 lines of on chain code that manages
the entire user space for for users and
connects anyone to anything anywhere in the cosmos on chain so that your assets are
Do a lot of really great things and excited to talk about the privacy aspects of that coming up soon
Yeah, we can create awesome
I'm relatively new to cosmos. I'm I'm CEO of secret labs, which developing the secret network
Relatively new to cosmos super excited about the ecosystem
And technology wise, I think cosmos is very unique because it's in itself kind of modular, right?
It's very easy for people to create new blockchain and that's why it's on such a huge number of
Projects, right? And you know as you know, I started playing with this ignite
Toolkit it's so easy just to create your own cosmos chain and then you know
You can do pretty much anything right?
So so, you know secret created this on clay based confidential computing
You know gory created this JavaScript mark on so it's very easy to innovate. So it's really very very cool
And I think this gives cosmos a great place in this new modular
narrative conversations who are seeing
Celestia which is you know the poster child of this this year
I guess and they're kind of spearheading this module blockchain in there on their own and cosmos chain
Secret is also falling suit here and we are positioning ourselves as in the confidential execution module for everyone
So I think the technology itself
kind of the modularity of cosmos kind of
Made it the most suitable
Greater modularity in web 3 in general, so very excited
Thank you Alex, I think that he's also here lucky I have just yeah, yeah you're here. Hi Zaki. Can you please?
Share a bit about you to the audience
one time contributor to cosmos
Co-founder of simile a protocol with my co-founder Christie
Occlusion with Tony Christie and Shella
So moving on to the first, you know point
that that is the which is like the you know heart of cosmos and
Which is what differentiates cosmos SDK?
SDKs are currently available which is like the interoperability aspect and the IBC module
so I saw like there has been couple of improvements in the
You know version probably if any of the speakers would like to talk about around like middleware
You know packet atomicity or I see like now more arbitrary
So if anyone would like to speak around it, thank you
Alex oh Alex requested again
Can you guys hear me yes, yes we can I I feel Zaki you might be best place to talk about this
I'm not so, you know the like
Generally IBC like IBC releases are not that big a deal
Like the sort of incremental
Improvements that happen are
General like so, you know, there's like multiple layers of of
IBC so like there's the sort of core IBC protocol
Which you know there which has sort of been stable now for the last two years
Two years three years three years
Where the you know, we haven't done a major release of the underlying IBC protocol. So instead you have like all of these different
Blockchains and now we have multiple implementations of IBC, right? Like so Namata is going live any day now
IBC running on substrate and poke in the polka dot ecosystem. It's also live
So you have this like, you know, very very stable core of IBC
And then you have like all of these sort of like incremental improvements incremental additions
To the IBC protocol. I think one of the biggest
Things that like we're all trying to move is towards is more and more IBC functionality. That is not just
So token transfers are by far the most popular IBC application
Cosmos chip, you know, IBC does
You know many billions of dollars of token transfers on a regular basis
But like, you know now you're seeing more and more
You know for instance swaps built in IBC
So, you know you have this IBC
Swap protocol that's built on top of token transfers
That is accessible via skip API
and like these pieces have
Sort of enabled a lot of different composability. So we have this other thing called interchain accounts interchain accounts are doing
So like the big user of interchain accounts is liquid staking on top of Cosmos, but now we're starting to see
Sort of other use cases like DAO is driving interchain accounts
But I think we're just only going to see more and more sort of higher level composability
These various pieces come together
Yeah, actually in the next 2024 roadmap based on like what I read
Like like you were saying a lot of data which are not just tokens and how can we verify?
So there have been so many different
Implementation of it, especially in the bridging space. I see look so many bridges now starting to adopt some
modules from the IBC module because I think
That was that is the main feature that cosmos ecosystem provides to the world like it has been battle-tested
Always comes to my mind and I see Zaki always introducing every now and then a new privacy project
into you know our video group, so I see that a
Privacy protocols they they are I either they love using Cosmos SDK or they have seen
Something different in Cosmos SDK than the other SDK is available. So we have like two
companies here like checked and
A secret maybe Alex and Angkor you can share your viewpoint
Like why did you choose to use Cosmos SDK for your you know?
First like what is the privacy aspect that you are trying to solve and the second one?
Did you feel that Cosmos SDK is the right fit for that?
Yeah, I can go first on that
one of the primary factors behind
Cosmos SDK as a lot of people mentioned is the
Customizability and the flexibility that we got out of it
In terms of being able to create our have our own sovereign app chain
Which could be used for that functionality? I think that was quite critical for us, especially
Yeah, so so secret network actually launched on Cosmos
Actually Alex uncle is that speaking?
You can speak I'm sorry. Just the sound just kind of sometimes disappears from from the stream for me
So what I was saying is I think having that sovereign app chain was quite important for us in terms of making the tokenomics work
If we generally believe in this world where identity is in people's control and decentralized
It can be a very high volume use case
probably has the same level of volumes as a lot of the more defy based applications have and
The numbers and the challenges when I've been working in the decentralized identity field
Early on in the ethereum days. It was quite obvious that it would be very painful in in the
Cost and the fee terms for people who wanted to do use decentralized identity
And I think some of that has improved over time
With the layer twos and layer trees that are coming up in ethereum, but it's still not quite there yet in terms of the full
Flexibility and sovereignty and the ability to customize your your tokenomics
And the the price at that at the end of the day that somebody pays to write these transactions
And I think the other part of it for us was the
what you were talking about in terms of IBC the fact that any of these cosmos chains might one day be able to
Decentralized identifiers and the other sort of
Cryptography and the proofs that are on these various chains natively chain to chain that was I think a big factor for us as well
Alex maybe if you want to go next with your thoughts because I know secret has been around in the space for a while as well
I think Alex has some issues with his microphone
No problem, but so so so to summarize. Oh, maybe Kody can
Share his perspective like Kody you were talking about that. You also share
Yeah, Alex we can hear you now
Yes, we can hear you can you yeah, I'm having really bad luck with that and it's sometimes sound disappeared anyway
And I'm in a data center guys believe me it's like wired connection and everything it's it's not the internet anyway
So so secret is actually solving a general problem of confidential computing
Right, so so secret has combined cosmos with
Trusted execution environment technology, which is a hardware based
Technology for confidential computing. So essentially
What it is all about is that Intel and other manufacturers?
Have what's called a secure enclave enclave inside their chips
And this enclave is sort of a black box that has in a very simplistic way that has its its own
That nobody's supposed to know not even the owner of the machine not even Intel no one at all
And you can essentially encrypt stuff and send it into this enclave and then the enclave
Things and return answers without anyone seeing the plain text data
So what secret does is actually we have put the cosm wasm runtime
Inside this enclave and so all the contracts on secret network
Are by default confidential. So all the parameters are encrypted
Nobody sees what the contract
What parameters the contract receives and nobody can see the contracts state and this is essentially a very
Compared to other privacy technologies like zkp or MBC
They don't allow shared private states so you can do a lot of proofs and they're super useful in a lot of cases
When you need to have a private
Private state that's not seen by anyone. That's where te comes in
Disadvantage because there is a certain certain level of centralization, right because we are kind of relying on Intel
And on them doing a good job and on them really securing the enclave
And you know there were some issues in the past
But the big advantage of this technology is that it's really fast to execute and
Developers don't need to learn any new paradigms
So they just write they're kind of normal smart contracts and they're executed in full confidentiality
So secret used cosmos just because cosmos is so easy to build
To build on right? We didn't have to worry about consensus. We didn't have to worry about ABC wallets all that we got that all
from cosmos and then we just had to
Execution layer and of course there are a lot of other changes
But you know, basically we're taking cosmos and just executing everything inside the enclave
So so that's the reason and and and also cosmos allows, you know, and we're working that now allows kind of connecting to other networks
Through different kinds of bridges general message passing
We have our own developments as well in the area around general message passing and that's what we're actually looking at
Not just being part of cosmos but going out to EVM ecosystem
Solana ecosystem near ecosystem and offering confidential computing to
Everyone out there because we believe there are a lot of use cases out there
That can be enabled by adding certain confidential computing features certain encrypted data certain protected data
to existing apps on other chains
Got it Cody you want to go next on this
Yeah, one of the ways that Andromeda approaches security is really we've got it sort of baked into the the architecture that we deploy across the cosmos
Like I said in the opening statement
the AOS gets deployed on each chain inside the cosmos and we wire them up with IBC and
And use our what we call their Andromeda messaging protocol
which rides on top of IBC and
Allows for calls to be made from anywhere to anywhere any protocol to any protocol kind of a thing of it as like an adapter
What we're able to do is these objects these Andromeda digital objects that we create
Which are largely based off of the 721 standard, but are just think of this objects not NFTs
These objects can be moved from chain to chain. So you've kind of decoupled ownership from
From the actual logic on chain. So these objects have properties have
behaviors have different features and the nice thing about them is because we had this centralized kernel on each chain and there's a there's a
Secure channel between them. We can now move these objects from chain to chain. So if you wanted to say up say you were on
Your own protocol you're on say chain a with protocol one you could you could easily move that that ADO to chain B and still operate
Protocol one and so there's if that kind of makes sense maybe a little a little obtuse there
The objective here is that you would have in your interface and you're in your wallet under your ownership
you'd have these different objects that exist on these different chains and you could simply right-click on one of them in the interface and
just put make private and
That would send it over to secret or send it over to you know, whatever privacy place you want
We're not we're not real opinionated on that
But we need to make it really really easy for users to say, you know
What I want I want this this and then you know these objects
I want to select these eight objects and make them private and the user and all of a sudden poof
there's the the Andromeda kernel takes care of everything it packages them up ships the
the payload over to the other chain and it resurrects it in a secure environment and then all of a sudden the user just
Has a little icon that shows up next to their their assets with a little, you know, a little lock or a little, you know
Privacy icon so something that simple for the user to use and they they can see which which objects they own that are private
Which ones are not I'm sorry
Secret or or or whatever. So yeah, we might want to make it easier and better faster for users to get access to these kind of things
Like I want to bring in one more point and this was my discussion with Zaki went back when I was in
I don't know if Zaki remembers it big but Zaki made a point that apart from the
You know module a technical part, which is like it's a very easy module to build on
Using Cosmos SDK plus so many privacy other, you know products that are already available to implement privacy
but also from the regulatory standpoint that you were trying to mention that
using if you like a bootstrap a chain using Cosmos SDK, it's it's more sort of
friendly to regulators to understand than actually minting on
using some other SDK and I actually went back to Vara in Dubai and
Texted them that hey, I'm launching a chain. Do I need a
License they said if it is this this this you don't need it. You just need a NOC and
And yeah, so kind of what you said said I could validate that maybe can you just help us help me understand
What was your perspective there from a technical standpoint like how Cosmos SDK can help you?
Mean, I think like one of the things that
You know if you kind of actually go back to the history of secret, right?
you know secret originally was
Was a was a was a like, you know the the sort of there was this enigma token
Enigma the name of token and like bring into issues with their ICO
And you know a rigid essentially died right, but the project didn't die
And the project was reborn as a cosmos token
That was initially like built by an independent validator set
building like sort of an independent technology and then there was eventually like a community vote to
Sort of exchange edema tokens for secret tokens
and essentially that was the sort of sort of recreation of the
original enigma sort of system and you know the nature of
Cosmos tokens in terms of providing sort of
Essentially sort of a kind of real tangible governance, right?
And you know you have you know these
You know, you know most dows that exist on
Ethereum Solana, etc. You know they struggle with you know, eight nine percent turnout on governance votes
And you have the cosmos hub sitting there and you know
Consistently at least from a validator point of view almost all validators
voting and governance votes on a regular basis and you have
The you know, we have hundreds of thousands of accounts
Tens of thousands of things that look like pretty much like more likely to be real accounts about airdrop farmers
Participating in every in governance actions. Um, and so there is this
How easy the cosmocystic a makes it spit out a proof-of-stake help one which provides sort of new opportunities
Or a very different sort of token lunch experience from just like launching a token who's done another network
Thank you very much that was one one point for me was that like the governance is super strong in cosmos ecosystem
You know a better better way to explain to
Regulators that hey, we are not in control sole control of this
product it's governed by the community and probably that's what work for
secret network as well when you know, they switched and
That can help other projects who are thinking of using other, you know infrastructure like I see most of these
L2s that are buying up in aetherium if you look at their transaction, these are all bought
bought a transaction just to get more and more airdrops and
an governance comes very late in the ecosystem like I saw recently that
Polygon actually implemented a governance mechanism
Where also Zaki is also part of that after like two three years of coming out
But I see the in cosmos ecosystem on the day one. We have all the validators in and everybody is voting. So
So I'm just trying I was trying to summarize for myself and learn from you your points
But yeah moving on to the next question it this is for a jeet probably jeet
maybe you can share some points that
you know how a goric is adding value to the cosmos ecosystem and and
and what's going on right now from the
You know JavaScript standpoint using JavaScript as as a smart contract language
So maybe if you can share some use cases or something interesting that has happened in the agoric ecosystem
That will be great. Thank you
Agoric with our hardened JavaScript
One thing we're really looking to do this year is working with a lot of the other cosmos chains
And just really having you know, if we can bring a lot of new developers in learning our JavaScript stack and have them
Use entertain accounts, for example to do things for privacy. Let's say on secret or
namata or shade or whatnot
We really feel as though get the ability to get in lots of new developers and having them actually unlock the
Ability to use other cosmic chains without necessarily having to learn cosmoism
Can just be very useful for the ecosystem. So we're really trying to position ourselves as
Just really being able to help
New developers whoever's coming in
Execute a lot of different things on a lot of different other chains
Including a plan including other layer ones just to make sure that we know everyone is getting value out of what a gorgeous bring to the table
Thank you very much for the points and probably I will also reach out to you and see if we can work together
In I've been thinking about it and I'll definitely going to reach out to you and see if we can work together in some points
Is sistla can you speak or your speaker is I mean your connection is still bad
Let me try my test one two three. Okay. Okay, bro, like
Share with us. What's the next?
upcoming things happening
What's the new releases or or maybe a vision that this year what you guys have planned to?
You know how to crack into the market or or something that there's something cool that is happening with you
Sure, can you hear me? Yeah, okay
That is great. Yeah, firstly, I
Mean the plan for 2024 especially with the cosmos stack
Is to be fully updated like end of last year. We were working on the version 47
Upgrade to the SDK roll out in a week, but we already have version 50
In a condition and if these are exciting, you know, they'll be rolling out pretty soon
That will be a cosmos first. Maybe at a protocol there, of course, you know, there have been bridges
Using which NFTs could be transferred earlier and apart from that more specifically for OmniFlex
Firstly, we are becoming even more media specific with respect to our infra
Being able to better serve creators or other publishers
content creators of video audio
Launched OmniFlex TV that is going great. We already have 400 videos uploaded
100,000 interactions on interactive videos. I mean to know more about interactive videos check out OmniFlex TV, but
You know, we should be able to roll out
at least draft versions of the media infrastructure around live streaming around the delivery network, which is
Widely referred to as CDN in the media space for publishing platforms to utilize for communities to utilize
We also have planned to explore various ways to onboard users
You know be it with account abstraction or being able to integrate an NPC provider
But that also involves privacy within our roadmap and this is primarily, you know
We are exploring ways in which we can verify the authenticity of web to
Creators as in creators on YouTube, Twitch, Instagram or Twitter and
Be able to you know interface all of this infrastructure with their ops
So that is one. I mean that is not privacy, but
That has more to do with proofs, CK proofs
in that sense and apart from that we are also
Focused you know to be able to I
Won't say handle or I won't say solve but handle on-chain reputation
You know for various partners that are building on top of form flicks as well. And this is where we see hyper sign
Check, you know and multiple projects in the ecosystem play key role. Yeah, and
Congratulations on all your partnerships. I've been following some of your
meeting logs if I can say that and
It'll be great if we can crack, you know, whatever you're aiming for. So
Sisla Zaki, would you like to share a little bit about some earlier? I saw like in q4
Around q4 last year the TVL of civilian like really went crazy
From what you it used to be so and you were sharing like last time also
So and you keep bringing this again and again that you and your co-founder actually started brainstorming. What could help
Get like the ethereum TVL into cosmos and how some earlier? Yeah, you know was formed to
Bring TVL without actually bridging the assets. Maybe you can share some from that perspective
the perspective of sommelier is
Think you're going to see like more less and less
Reliance on asset bridging
In sort of the new multi-chain thesis like this this whole idea of like chain abstraction
Basically moving towards this idea of like chain abstraction orchestration
you know, you can view sommelier as like
What will become we expect like the dominant application pattern where it's not about okay like
You know bridge all your ass like like oh like we're going to build
Like never ending TVL wars that have historically been taking place especially among the like
Seems like it's going to like sort of vanish, right?
Like I think we're gonna move we're moving towards a model where you know different chains are gonna have their own native
Ecosystems and then you can have these sort of overlay networks, which is what sommelier is
That are specializing and like providing access to better user experiences
So sommelier is just is a cosmos chain. There's a cosmos app chain, but it is powering a better user experience for
Ethereum and a theory of users and EVM l2s and like the reason why we did that is that you know
There are a set of use cases in aetherium liquid staking
Being like sort of top of mind
There is a lot of value that cosmos technology can bring to those user experiences as demonstrated by sommelier
You don't need to get people to bridge their assets into cosmos use kep were
Bring the benefits of the cosmos technology
to users where they are and this has been incredibly successful mom
And I think we're going to move more and more away from this. Oh, can we like suck?
users and liquidity and volume
Into cosmos and it's more like can we bring cosmos to users wherever they are?
Indeed I could see like when I mean probably
Sommelier was the first one to do something like that in in our ecosystem
There were other products
That were talking about liquid staking, but then the actually you know could crack in good amount of TVL was
Sommelier, so I would personally go back and start understanding
You know from a product perspective how it started
Able to get the trust of these investors because in bridges they don't trust me
They are very scared. That's why they are like moving immediately or or not. So comfortable in moving
Assets, but this liquid staking has really changed and lot of new products are being built
I have to learn a lot about it
I would like to you know, bring the next
Speaker Angkor, maybe Angkor. Can you share something about what's happening at check?
I know I remember you talked about one feature called creds
.xyz which you guys have built new new product, but maybe other than that on the protocol side something upcoming in
That the community can look forward to
Yeah, absolutely. So creds.xyz
Here's the gold standard for how you can implement applications on top. What we find is
Decentralized identity is still an extremely new space for developers and
It can be quite complicated quite intimidating to get into because of the complete paradigm shift
And so building creds.xyz where people can collect their on-chain and off-chain
reputation from with three projects in a
Secure end-to-end encrypted wallet a bit the way whatsapp works
Was was our effort to show how do you go and use the functionality on our network?
But looking at the protocol side, I think what we focused massively last year on
was the ability to charge for reads on the network when you're verifying a
digital credential of some sort because
Obviously, there are right fees when you write to a ledger
It's harder to do that when you have when you're trying to read and verify your credential for that to be charged because reads are typically free
And so I think we found out a good sort of like, you know medium
path between how to enable that by allowing the credential reads to be free
But by charging for checking if they have been revoked or not
And one of the things that we are quite keen in our 2024 roadmap is to
Enable looking up these digital identity primitives and digital credential checks
To happen natively on-chain over IBC between different cosmos chains
interested in exploring like, you know where we could collaborate with hyper sign on that, for example, and
the idea here would be instead of requiring a middleware layer or some
soft middleware software layer that that allows us that allows you to make those things happen if you
natively enable that across cosmos chains that then I think unlocks a lot of different use cases
DeFi KYC, DeFi credit scoring, DeFi governance, doing governance on
parameters perhaps in addition to staking being able to do it based on other digital credentials that somebody might hold
and the objective here would be
Only cosmos chain that is using decentralized identity. I think it's fantastic that hyper signs doing this and and other
Cosmos chains also want to explore the idea of how to integrate all of this and
together I think we can build a much more secure and
An ecosystem where people have more control of that data than what we are currently seeing in Polkadot and clearing and so on
Yeah, sure. Actually since you brought that topic
So, okay. So first yeah, I read your blog on
You know payment credentials. So
Like getting to making payments for these different primitives that you talked about and it is amazing
I wanted to share some notes with you
Which I will do anyways after this call or maybe in probably in the next week, but about the you know cross chain IBC
Like verifiable credential verifying the status across different chains in cosmos it would we have done some
so far proof of concepts and
And would love to like if if you know more projects can contribute together to build a module sort of thing or like an SDK
Which all of us agree to you know use or come to a conclusion that hey, these are certain types of
Different status changes across across, you know certain. Maybe we can just take one example of of
hooks and then we can set up like statuses for these hooks and probably you know
We can set up user verification or whatever other type of verification on top of that and and we can we can define one
For doing all these things and and then you know, all the other projects if they enable it as part of IBC module
Then, you know, all of us can have it in a much more unified and seamless way rather than us just
Working on it. So so would love to share that what we have done so far
Yeah, thank you very much uncle for sharing your updates
Who else we have I think most of I the projects here have spoken about
I just wanted to say that today we have
Shared a blog on what we built
In you know cosmos using cosmos SDK
So we went through like three stages of a testnet first was like make it work
So whatever idea we had and we called it Jagrat Jagrat is like the first stage of your awakening
So we named it that and now the second version that we have launched is make it right
so we tried to go through all the
you know WCC compliance and also a lot of work by Angkor and the team and
Then try to see like what we had done and what we want to achieve in future from across chain
credential perspective and then we tried to align all of them together into some sort of
You know code on the other hand on the you know business side. We have been like really heavily
Trying to you can say like I'm just breaking my shoe going to every all the ID
Government organization in India one good thing is that they started sharing their problem statement to me before this was not happening before
I if I used to tell them like hey, I'm trying to solve it using blockchain fuck off
Oh, sorry, not that word, but say just don't come to us. Don't talk to us
But from last year we have like a new law in India and I did read a lot of books before that like sometimes
Businesses can be built because of the law changing and I could see in real world like they started sharing with us
you know my team is trying to
You know work as much as possible with them and which will basically
Convert into how currently cosmos SDK is being used for DID use cases
But how can we actually build bring the government also on cosmos SDK currently?
They are okay with using let's say hyper ledger fabric or hyper ledger
But my goal is to convince them and I can see like some of them have used polygon
So they are getting some sort in a different way like L2 L3 way all all these jargons
But probably there that's where we can add value to our ecosystems
Like even if we can get one organization in in whatever
Design architecture possible with cosmos SDK that can then help probably Angkor and other projects
Working in DID space in their own different jurisdiction and areas. So so these are like two thought process
We have jotting down into a blog. I will share with you guys after this call
Apart from that Zaki if you want to give us some something closing speech or that
Can you know get other people more excited about using cosmos and coming into cosmos that will be great. Thank you
Well, okay, I mean I think
One of the like real sort of macro challenges has been okay, so I
Sort of thing that goes on right is that there is this
Coupling that needs to exist
So, okay, so in general across crypto, right
On-chain identity systems have not really
Cross the chapped chasm into like widespread adoption, right?
Like this is I think this is this is like a challenge that you face
Sort of the entire space and so and I it sort of represents an interesting question as to why
And I on to a certain extent. We don't really know why
Like many people have tried many different things
You know on chain security is interacting with defy is something that like continues to make a lot of sense
Especially like on train short-term Treasury bonds
But like what we have yet to sort of crack the code on yet
across the entire industry is like
An on-chain asset that can leverage digital identity
That you know people are willing to consume and adopt its scale
This is like been I think like like one of the biggest challenges one of the biggest
All of cryptocurrency and you know, I think that the you know
Solving these for like there. There's no reason at this point to believe
No that the sequence of events is
Okay, like you find product market fit for thing XYZ on aetherium
And then you and then that and then a thing must
Can then be sort of have its cosmos version like all of these things actually can be
Sort of novelty solved in the cosmos ecosystem
it's just a question of sort of finding product market fit and I do think that there continues to be like
Sort of unique opportunities on the in sort of the
You know one thing that I think is
It's like continues to be like an interesting opportunity that has yet to really be realized
Like prove that this account is held at some qualified custodian that it's not a self custodial account
Is like a sort of interesting isn't is an interesting model
So, you know like one of the I think like one of these pieces
I think another piece that is like out there for cosmos
at an experiment that could be run is
Dows where the Dow membership is based on being a real person
instead of being with like some threshold of real person eyes, but rather than
The Dow membership is like token voter
And I think that is a model that probably has like one of the biggest opportunities
to build like you could like just having a module with in doubt out that can like
Verify a verify book credential and it's like you can't you need to present that verify book credential to join the Dow
represents like another I think really big frontier and I'm
Sort of a little unclear as to why no one has tried to take this to market yet
But I think it's like it would be like overwhelmingly a good idea
Yeah, I agree. So and specifically in in cosmos ecosystem most of the project are integrating doubt out
Integrated so maybe that's that could be one
But again, that's like the second point there is that
On what are the parameters that we all agree to if for example if hype from hyper sign team
We even if we build that maybe it's not aligned with it. It might not align with
Other projects here. So the best way probably could be creating a working group
I know a lot of working groups gets created
Maybe it would be my team bringing out the first version of this XYZ set of structure and then creating a working group
so all of us can contribute to that or I am open to if Angkor and
Jeet and Alex and Zaki you guys want to also come in to
You know share your just viewpoints and we will we can
Go ahead and talk to all the projects and see where what could be the the best possible
Stand, you know standard we can build for the cosmos ecosystem initially at least
But the one point that I liked about what you just said that does just it's not try
Right to just replicate what has worked in a theorem. It might not work for cosmos because of
built very differently here, but still working together, so
Initial, you know starting point there was that we all connect through IBC. So if we do
And the you know data that that can be verified across IBC
then the second I mean technically that can work, but the second point would be that what are the
You know facts or what are the points that we are
Looking to verify. So for example in the Dow case
we can look at the actions that Dow Dow does and
Based on that like look at all the projects that have integrated Dow Dow and then from there creating a working group
I'm just trying to you know, just think
More from a practical perspective. How would I start this to approach this?
But yeah, I'm open to you know, any points that I might be wrong be here and go to Zaki. I
Zaki do you want to go first? Okay, I will I will
Push back on this whole let's create a working group. Let's not create a working group
let's take a product to market like I think that there's like I think like the
The the the the the biggest challenge with all of these things, right is
Like markets will learn a lot more from like showing people something in action rather than talking about what could be
and so, you know one of the things that we have in cosmos, right is that the
One of the things that we have in cosmos is this
You know, we have low gas prices. We have interoperability. We have acid onboarding, you know
You know, we have like, you know, you know if there was a Dow Dow that existed that had
10,000 hundred thousand a million members
Or there was a cosmos chain
Where you know you voted for validators based on
Very selected validators based on verifiable credentials rather than holding tokens
Like these things could exist they could exist right now and they would be unlike anything that exists anywhere else in crypto
And no one has really tried these things. It's
Impossible to know whether or not they would catch on
Whether or not people would be excited about them in completely new ways whether or not, you know
You know people would rather
Buy meme coins that were like where the parameters were controlled by a bunch of people who had proof of personhood
credentials rather than people who would
Rather than you know, how many people hold the governance took but you know, like they're I think like the most effective ways of
Disrupting are to just like ship a product
Just to add to that I think a lot of the value of this
Decentralized ID and verifiable credential spaces that it was meant to be an interoperable spec
I think the where cosmos is at right now in terms of the projects that are working in the space like yourself secret us
Was to get those primitives in place, but it is fundamentally designed to be an interoperable standard
Do sit on the steering committee of the decentralized ID foundation
I think it's probably a medium between what Zaki suggested and what you're suggesting
I don't think maybe we need a full working group
But there are some technical primitives that we could align on very quickly across some of the more identity and privacy focused cosmos chains and
Like Zaki said the proof is in the pudding like, you know, let's let's ship these products that show it in action
I'm actually quite excited about what's coming in cosmos 0.50
in in terms of ABCI++ and how that
makes it potentially a lot more flexible to build in things like
On chain verifiable credentials being used
natively in the governance like procedures or processes that these students do so, yeah
I think 2024 is going to be a big year of
causal chains collaborating with each other and
Actually showing some of this in in action and then as Zaki says we will find out like, you know
What the demand for that is but from everything I've seen in terms of our market research speaking to people like yourself
other cosmos projects as well. There does seem to be a massive demand for
other different mechanisms for
Governance and I think that would quite quite differently set us apart from a lot of other blockchains as well
Where that may not as easily be possible
Indeed Zaki I've already got your point. We have done some steps in this direction
not we haven't stitched stitched the basically the whole shirt, but
Peace by peace. Peace. Some research have been done by my team
Smaller researchers and in the end probably will have one simple proof of concept
I am going to bring it out to all of you as soon as it is ready and from there
You guys can start, you know sharing or taking it forward that you know
This can be done in this way or that way. So
You know happy to share that as well
Like one of the I mean one of the things that just like immediately comes to mind is like, okay, so
You know, there's like there's there's a couple of pieces here
But like can that can be sit together, right is everyone and you know
We do all these airdrops and cosmos right and like everyone is constantly looking for civil resistant
information about like who to airdrop to
You know this like the existence of simply a pool of people
With you know some civil resistance property that is unique and different from staking tokens, etc
Right and that you know just becomes an airdrop target
This is probably valuable in its own
Yeah, so since you brought that up
So this is how we we are approaching this so you remember we I had shared with you
We had built a product called fire in aetherium site
And it does like it lets you verify how much token you have if you have ever made some transaction number of transaction
You have done with a smart contract and you can give a score based on that
Now what we have done is a next module which is like a modular action
Contract and where you can define different type of action and then you can define what type of verification you can do and the third is like
Contract which says like okay. So all these number points that you are adding
Who who is the issuer of this point like a contract address?
Who is the issuer and then what is the score so based on that now?
It can be connected to Dauda or it can be connected to any launchpad or it can be connected to any
Any other, you know smart contract and the season can be done in a modular fashion
So we don't have to control anything. So a developer can deploy his action deploy his
Probably we can integrate their creds as a action. So if you have this particular
You know credential on on on check, so then you can get XYZ score
so so actually on all already doing in this direction I
once it is available like some shape or form I'm going to share with you guys and
We'll take from take feedback and maybe improve on that
Yeah, thank you, okay, so thank you everyone for jumping in today and
Listening to what we have built also sharing what you have you guys have done. I have been always following your
different approaches because
To crack into the market. I what I love about cosmos ecosystem
Is that we all are open to share like how we are able to
Like the product market fit or what could be the probable way to a product market fit
which is not happening in any other ecosystem they are running inside those and
Which is what I love about
Being in cosmos honestly for me fundraising has been difficult
Because I switched from XYZ SDK to cosmos SDK, but I think I will overcome that if
We are able to find a product market fit and
We will be able to achieve that or probably we can share what we have built to you guys and maybe we can you know
Share notes and help each other out. So that's the best part about our ecosystem on that note
Thank you very much for coming in today and have a good evening or good morning and have a fantastic weekend