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cr00wns community space
Recorded: June 2, 2023 Duration: 2:11:06Space Recording
Full Transcription
I'm paranoid.
I need to run new kind of attention.
I lost the energy of the show.
I'm going to tell you I don't care.
I'm telling you I'm dreaming of tomorrow.
We're not going to lose a little time.
I didn't know too much.
I'm going to tell you I'm not going to tell you.
I'm not going to tell you I'm not going to be mine.
I'm feeling I could get the book out of here and see if you have it.
Yo, what's good?
Welcome to the Crownsville community space, I guess.
You guess?
Come on.
We're recording this.
Once Crowns takes over the ecosystem, people are going to be looking back at this.
Let's try that again, Izor.
What is good, my homies?
Welcome to the Crowns community space.
You did it.
You stuck the landing.
I knew you could.
You did it.
How are you guys doing today?
I'm doing great.
And I'll tell you why.
Because you don't know this, but I think everybody...
I'm just going to jump into it.
I think everybody has a list of five albums that absolutely should have been left in the past.
They are not cool anymore in any way, shape, or form.
They're super cringe, but you still like them.
American Idiot is 100% one of them for me, because I listened to it at a very special time and place in my life.
I moved to Chicago, and I was in this new place, and I was listening to American Idiot.
And it was going to be me and Green Day against the Bush administration.
We were going to stop the war, goddammit.
It didn't happen.
It didn't happen.
There is nothing more 2004 in the world than listening to Green Day as you vote for Dennis Kucinich.
I don't know if anybody knows who that is.
It's basically Jill Stein with a smaller dick.
And he didn't win, spoiler alert.
And afterwards, I went to a bar and proceeded to not get laid.
Welcome to 2004.
That's it.
That was the whole year.
That's everything that happened in 2004.
Welcome to the space, Twix.
I'm glad you hopped in on that point of El Skedet's spiel.
Yeah, that's quite something to hop in the middle of that.
It's Isor's fault.
Isor will admit it was his fault.
He basically set that up.
He knew what he was getting into.
I also was two years old when that happened.
Oh, fuck off.
No, you weren't.
No, you weren't.
I was.
I was born in 2002.
God, it's embarrassing.
Let me guess.
Dude, you were born in 2002?
Now you're starting your first week at work or something like that.
Fucking A, man.
I think I was 2002.
Where was I?
Man, I was in college getting ready to finish up.
And yeah, I actually remember this album from Green Day back in the day, man.
And yeah, it was definitely on repeat.
But at a certain point, it has to go off repeat, right?
Like, it has to go away.
No, I disagree, though.
Like, Green Day is like, that's legend shit, man.
Like, you can't fake Green Day.
I mean, I think you can fake it.
But you shouldn't because it belongs to them.
Yeah, I mean, you really shouldn't.
I agree.
You're pretty much your NGMI.
Like, if you try Fading Green Day, like, it's over.
Your bags are done.
You're never going to get any chicks.
Like, it's going to be 2023, and it's still going to feel like, you know, 2004.
I have nothing but love in my heart.
Two of my, like, most influential albums for me were Dookie and American Idiot.
They're the only band in the world with two on that list.
Two most influential.
I think Dookie's cooler to listen to now than American Idiot because it's super emo.
But I don't care.
I still love that shit.
And Izor didn't know that bond that I have with Green Day, and he played that album.
And that's why this is going to be the best spaces of all time.
Is Frank going to show up again?
I don't know.
It's possible.
With that kind of synergy, with that kind of magic, I'm just putting that out there.
But if he doesn't, that's fine, too.
We're all just going to have a chill rap session because that's what we did in 2004,
listening to Green Day.
Yo, 2004.
I was in grade six.
I was trying to learn how to kickflip or something, listening to American Idiot,
thinking that I was going to be a cool skater kid.
I still think you can be.
I still think you have it in you to be a cool skater kid one day.
I really do believe that.
I have a three-year-old now, so, like, he's getting to that age where, like, he's going
to get into those types of things, and I'll have to show him what's up.
Yeah.
Yeah, I actually was able to see Green Day a year ago, actually.
Yeah, actually.
Nice.
Yeah, that was fun.
That was a vibe, for sure.
And it was at a music festival, and it was with a younger crowd, so that was awesome to
see as well.
There's a younger crowd that listens to Green Day?
Really?
Yes, for sure.
That's awesome.
Okay.
It's retro, man.
That's like classic rock now.
I know.
It's kind of, yeah, dude.
And, like, it's kind of the same thing, man.
Like, mullets are back in style.
Mustaches are back in style.
I'm not convinced mustaches ever went out of style, if I can be honest.
I feel like, historically, if you can rock a mustache in any year of history, you're good.
It's just about how you do it.
There were, like, five years scattered throughout history where having a crappy mustache was okay.
Sadly, I can't grow a mustache.
We'll get there.
That would never be.
Or not.
I don't know.
Dude, don't hold me to it.
I don't know.
I'm 31, and I can barely grow a mustache.
Yo, what's up, Nick?
I see casting is underway.
Boom.
What's happening?
I love that post.
He just added the six ute.
Guy's on his way to ute 007.
How do you pronounce that?
Is it U-70s?
U-007s?
I don't know.
I actually don't know.
But I bet you when people read our name, some people think it's croons.
Yeah, true.
Very true.
But that's their problem.
That's on them.
I don't know what that meant.
Yeah, they're fucking idiots.
Yeah, fuck them.
How dare they join?
Crown's going to melt faces, bro.
Anywho.
Yeah, I don't know, man.
Green Day is dope.
I kind of grew up on the Life After Death double album from Biggie.
Word.
Or, like, the double album from Tupac.
Like, I would say those are the two most influential albums of my life.
Biggie and Tupac?
Oh, yeah.
But if you had to pick one, because we're talking about that now.
If you had to pick one, like, who's your guy?
Oh, Tupac, man.
Biggie.
100% Biggie.
Because Biggie told stories in a way that I respected more.
I enjoy Biggie more.
Do we have to fight?
I don't know what just happened.
It became really – I feel like everybody just felt how it became weird.
But I don't want it to be weird.
I don't know.
But it's definitely West Side until I die, bro.
So just, like, be careful you don't catch yourself.
I live on the West Side.
Especially now that you live in L.A.
You might end up with some problems after that statement.
Still, you can't do it.
We're still – you still can't go out and say, yeah, I'm Biggie.
Yeah, thanks, Coop.
I'm with you.
I'm with you.
That's two for two.
Two for two, Skidat.
You're doing great tonight on your bags.
I'm – look, here's the thing.
It's not about the bags.
It's about the community.
That statement doesn't mean anything, but I feel like I sold it.
Everyone thinks so, too.
I think everybody agrees.
What I said meant nothing, but I sold it with confidence.
Just like Izor started with what he said at the beginning.
Hello.
I don't know what's going on.
What's going on, Izor?
We got a great space in plan for tonight, don't we?
Sure.
Read off the news.
Read off the numbers.
Let's do this.
Do your thing.
For the news.
We have Bitcoin.
Oh, Bitcoin's already down.
I was at work today.
Didn't check the charts.
Haven't checked the charts in a while.
Bitcoin's at 26K.
That's pretty bad.
We got Ethereum.
1,800.
Not great.
Matic.
Matic's up.
90 cents.
That's better than it was last week.
That's for sure.
Sol still at that 20 mark.
Cardano at 37 cents.
I remember when I was buying Cardano at $2.
So, yeah.
That's the news.
I remember when I was buying Solana at 250, bro.
So, let's go.
Let's go.
I know.
I got a couple of Stoned Ape grooves that I bought for like nine grand a piece.
This is a nostalgic spaces.
We're talking about yesteryear.
That's what we're doing tonight.
But I don't want to talk about it.
I'm not here to talk about yesteryear because my boy, Eyesore, just had a very big week.
He just started work this week.
I did start work this week.
First option.
My first day.
First day was today.
Oh, first day in person.
Did you meet Mr. Nike?
What was that, Coop?
Did you meet Mr. Nike?
I did not.
I'm working in San Francisco.
So, Phil Knight is all the way not in San Francisco.
Oh, you're in San Fran.
San Fran's great.
Yeah, it is.
It's really, it's been pretty warm, honestly.
It hasn't been too cold.
But that's how, San Fran summers are just really just like chill.
Because I grew up in San Francisco, so I'm just used to the weather.
Back where I was for college, it was just like, it's either piping hot, super cold.
And like, there's like, maybe like one month of like, pretty nice weather.
Did you turn down drinks with your co-workers after your first day to do the spaces?
And the correct answer is yes, you did.
And we admire you for that.
That's fantastic.
That is dedication.
And that's what we need in this space.
Yeah, I said no to talk to my JPEG friends.
There you go.
Absolutely.
That's what you do.
You can be honest.
You got fired today, didn't you?
And this is, and you're here talking about it.
Yeah, I actually printed a bunch of photos of youths and I taped them to the walls.
And they said not to come back.
And that was that.
Gotta pump those bags.
Had to pump them bags.
I couldn't, I couldn't print photos of the Nike Adidas sweatshirt though.
That, that, that was a no-go.
I got a stern talking to you today.
You can't wear Adidas inside at all.
Might get fired.
My friend who worked for, um, at U of O at University of Oregon.
His friend, or someone he knew that he worked with wore a UCLA sweater and a Nike, or not Nike, Adidas, Adidas shoes.
And they got fired on the spot.
Did you go with it or did you keep it real?
Did you stand on a desk and scream out, Wu-Tang!
And then just get fired?
I did not.
I, I should have done that.
I should have pulled like a Dwight Schrute and just do something really out of pocket.
That's not a Dwight Schrute.
It's, you were born right when that show came in.
It's Chappelle's show.
It's fine.
Speaking of 2004, um, fantastic.
So yeah, so yeah, it was a good day.
I don't know what, it's been so long since I had like a first job that I'm like, I don't even remember what the, yeah, it was good.
You're excited for tomorrow?
How many days a week are you doing it?
You can answer any of those questions.
I'm going, I'm going into office three days a week, I'm working five days a week, and it's not, it's not my first job.
My first job was working at a mini golf spot.
That was fun.
That, that was.
Yo, that's awesome.
Sneaking back on it.
Mini golf is the best.
Congratulations on starting your first job this week.
This is an incredible, proud moment for you that you've managed to hold off this long without having a job.
I'm sure it's scary to finally have a job, but we're proud of you, and it's going to go well.
We promise.
Well, if you think about it, me, me looking back on a year or two is about the same amount as you guys looking back to 2004, because you guys are like dinosaurs, and I'm like a little, little, little ticker.
Damn.
Little man throwing shots tonight.
That was cruel, though.
I don't even think that was funny.
He's got the, he's got the ears.
That was harsh.
It started funny in your head, but then it hurt when it was said out loud.
We all got sad.
We all got very, very sad.
So I was trying to bring us together with my Chappelle Show references and my talk of Green Day and Wu-Tang, and now here we are.
Three for three.
Can we go back to, can we go back to mini golf?
You can always go back to mini golf.
That's what's great about mini golf.
It's always there for you.
Growing up, my grandparents owned a mini golf in like this little resort lake town.
And like every summer, I just like mini golfed all day long, ate cotton candy, slushies.
It was like the best thing ever.
It's pretty sad to see that, that place leave the family.
So like, you know, like a lot of, a lot of times people will say that was the best thing
ever.
And, and whenever people hear it, it's like, that wasn't the best thing ever.
That literally sounds like the best thing.
It was, it was, it was like a stone throw to the beach.
It was just amazing.
What's going on?
Wow.
That's like wonderful.
Oh, that's awesome.
That is so awesome.
Clicks, why don't you do your weekly segment of alpha?
What are we buying right now?
I am so out of it.
It should be called true alpha.
I'm really, really, really, really, actually, I really need to look into everything right
now.
But yeah.
You just going to buy one of everything?
Right.
I think Nick's got it right.
Ordinals are the thing right now, isn't it?
Ordinals are, are all the jam.
So, um, you know, I've got to start looking at that, but no, I've been like super busy
with work and stuff.
I will say though, soon I'm going to premiere, um, a new, uh, a new D God.
Yep.
Yep.
Yep.
I found one.
I like, uh, I like a little better than this.
So are you trading yours?
Yeah, I'm thinking, well, I'm hanging on to it for now and, and then probably selling
it once it, um, once, you know, Frank does his thing in June at some point.
Damn.
So you're buying, you're taking us to Sizzler.
I'm, uh, yeah.
Looks like someone's taking us to Applebee's.
Applebee's.
Yeah.
What, uh, what D God is it?
Oh, I'll show.
I'll, I'll, I'll pop it up in like the next year or two.
I'll do like a post.
Yeah.
I've been trying to pick up another one too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I haven't really gotten into the, like, I'm, I'm really interested in the, um, the
ordinal, like the, I've got some of that OXBT and kind of watching what that does.
Um, there's probably going to be.
Did you get it out?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, I mean, I got it like all sub 10 pretty much.
Nice.
So, um, I swept up a little bit, but I'm kind of just waiting to see how like all of the
NFT side of things play out.
Cause I, it seems like everybody is trying to mint on Bitcoin now.
And I, I guarantee you 90% of them are just going to be like rugs.
So there's probably some dope ones.
I actually ended up winning a whitelist through, um, MonkDAO on, um, what is it?
Ordillas or something like that.
That one looks like it's going to be pretty popular.
So it might be the first, like the one that I actually met.
I don't know.
We'll see.
Mm-hmm.
You still having nightmares about how I missed out on the D-Gods mint, like literally by 15
seconds or something like that.
Um, and it was all because of like the slow ass fucking Bitcoin network and Coinbase, like
not getting me my funds.
Like everyone's just fucking around with my bags and I didn't get to mint it.
And so I'm telling you, man, like it, it's, it's the most disappointing like L I've ever
taken in Web3.
I mean, I've lost, I've invested in so many rugs, but not getting to mint that, that D-God
ordinal, um, I have nightmares about that shit.
Oh, oh, I bet.
Oh, that's awesome.
And I was like sitting on the beach.
I was on, I think I remember I was talking to you guys.
I was like, cause remember I went to Florida and like with the family for like around spring
break time.
Um, and yeah, I was like sitting on the beach and like pushing my family away, like get
away from me.
Like I, I got to mint this D-God bitch.
Did you say that verbatim?
Yes.
To my six year old daughter.
It's like, no, I'm kidding.
She would have smacked me.
Um, she doesn't play.
Daddy's a D-Gen.
She knows.
Um, but you know what, like my kids actually, they, they understand quite a bit about web
three.
It's interesting.
I think like the kids, they're kind of tuned for it a little bit different.
Like they kind of understand the concept of ownership a little bit more.
Um, and like, you know, they're playing these different video games and they've got these
different avatars and like, those are theirs and they own them.
So they kind of get those concepts.
And like, just because I work in the industry, obviously my kids are always like looking at
JPEGs with me.
So my son, actually my eight year old is like, help me pick out half my utes.
You know, he's big on crowns.
He's, you know, so shout out to the little guy.
But, um, yeah, I do think it's interesting how the kids are like already kind of tuned
for some of this stuff.
And that's how I know, like, it's just a matter of time until like people just start to migrate
over to these kinds of products and experiences.
But yeah.
Yeah, no, that's, um, yeah, I wish I'd gotten in on the, uh, Bitcoin D gods as well.
It's funny.
I, um, recently I was talking to my parents and they're like, Hey, what are you into?
What are you doing?
I'm like, we're getting more and more into web three.
Hey, check out, check out these things.
These things are really popular.
I showed them like utes and D gods and AKCB and like a bunch of the, and my dad's just
like, what the hell, what is that?
You know, like they just don't get it.
It's so funny.
Um, you know, with, with folks that just did not grow up.
It's just so interesting.
Cause if you think about it now, kids are going to grow up with this, right?
This is going to become totally normal.
Like this is this, these are the collectibles, right?
So it's interesting.
Yeah.
Well, I think everything, everything changes.
I'm not just the products, but like why you're doing them, like the product market fit kind
of thing is something that you think about differently.
The way you market it is obviously way different.
It's like bottoms up, very like organic, like it's interesting.
We have, we have this kickoff for a large client that we've been working on.
And, and so like all these different facets of our company are involved in like these
like world-class marketers and even like having some conversations with them about like, no,
no, like you don't understand.
It doesn't work like that.
Like, you know, you can't just go out and do a whole bunch of paid media as an example.
People and like all of a sudden think that you're going to get all these conversions
into a Web3 project because everyone like is very suspect of paid promotions.
Right.
So like, there's just those things that like, I think a lot of people are kind of trying
to retrain, which is super interesting, but the kids don't seem like they need to be
retrained.
You know, they kind of seem like they already got it.
And like, yeah, I don't know.
It would be interesting to see how things unfold.
And then like on the gaming space, obviously, like all of those platforms are starting to
open up.
So like, I'm sure Twix, like your guys' company maybe is even experiencing this too with people
like building out experiences in Fortnite creator mode and like some of these other vehicles
that like, I think are more open and, and that'll be cool to see.
I think that I'm actually super bullish on like different use cases for gaming and Web3
over the next couple of years.
I do think it's like super hard to, to be successful because it takes so much money
to produce a successful game.
But I do think that like the technology will advance and, you know, it'll start to open
up a little bit more.
So I think there'll be some winners out of it.
Yeah, absolutely.
Hey, welcome.
Chris, Jess, you guys feel free to hop on up.
Yeah.
Chat with us.
I'd love to be having a casual chat talking about all things Web3 and what's good.
Just like what's going on in your life.
And what were you doing back in 2004?
And Nick, how are you doing, Nick?
Hey, guys.
How are you?
Dude, tell us about, tell us about the casting call.
Well, I think we should probably, we should probably set up another space, uh, not recording.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
But yes, there's a lot of updates and it's looking great.
That's great.
And by the way, I'm involving a lot of people in the huge community.
I know Scott Ed, we're talking separately.
And whoever, you know, is in entertainment or wants to help, there's a strike.
I cannot put together any team in Web2, so this is the chance.
Time for Web3.
Team Web3, man.
Yeah.
I had an amazing meeting with one of the holders who's an award-winning director.
He won Cannes twice.
He's a commercial director.
And, yeah, we're working on the story.
This guy's top, top tier, like, world class.
And he's a huge holder.
There's a lot of, a lot of valuable people out there.
He's going to be school.
Who?
I guess not.
Never mind.
Yeah, there's some incredibly talented people.
Yeah, there's a guy who's in the Crowns Club.
He's also in the Nouns Club as well.
And he's got a lot of good, like, film directing experience.
I have really good buddies with him in IRL as well.
Help me out, guys.
I need to reach out to all of them.
All of them.
Well, I know we'll overdo, man.
I got your Discord invite, brother.
So I've just been, like, drinking through a fire hose this week.
But we should definitely set some time up when it's not recorded and talk about it.
And I can fill you in.
Yes.
Yes.
It's something.
And, yeah.
What's up, man?
Not much I can say now here.
But, man, I'm incredibly excited about this.
Are you doing animation?
I put my money on my mouth, too.
And I've been purchasing these guys because these guys are going straight to the show.
But I'm also reaching out to other people.
DM, especially the one-of-ones that I want to use.
And they're all game.
They're all game.
Are you doing an animated film or series?
Are you doing something live action?
If I did before, no.
I produced 10 features.
But I developed an animation movie.
And my partner, he's producing Garfield right now with Chris Pratt.
So I'm covering that.
That's awesome.
Yeah.
For the huge thing that you're doing right now, is that animation or is that live action?
No, animation, of course.
But let's set up somewhere else where we can talk.
Okay.
And I can fill you in.
Nothing to hide.
Yeah.
For sure.
Yeah.
Contracting.
So, yes.
This is going serious, guys.
Hey, I'm curious.
By the way, let me tell you.
It's never been done.
Not even an agreement has been done.
Language has to be created.
This is like the first one of a kind.
The first Web3 IP going to Web2.
Well, yeah.
I think it's really exciting, man.
I'm interested in your take, though.
Like, I've heard about this writer's strike.
Like, how is that affecting, like, the film?
The film industry.
Okay.
I just produced the best movie of my career.
And I was at a point where I could start closing deals and engaging people and all.
And it struck me, you know, in the middle of everything I'm doing.
You know, I'm developing a project about Terry Fox.
Terry Fox is the biggest hero in Canada.
This guy ran the marathon all across Canada to raise money for cancer.
And I'm talking to a top director, the biggest director that I could ever work with.
And we were talking with a writer that he works.
And all of a sudden, I mean, people were telling me, now, it's going to get fixed.
It's going to get fixed.
I'm going to stop.
But then someone called me an agent and told me, man, the issue is not with the money.
The issue is not with what the writers need to get paid.
The issue is bigger.
The issue is survival.
It's the language about AI that has to be put in that contract for the next five to seven years for these writers to survive.
Because if not, the studios are going to make a deal with Microsoft.
They're going to get programmers.
And maybe Academy Award writers will still have jobs.
But all the rest, like a TV show, a writer's room, no, man.
They're going to hire two guys and then five, you know, five chat GTPs with programmers and all.
So that needs to be stopped.
So that is the real reason.
The core of all this tribe is not the money.
It's AI and technology.
Survival, by the way.
And that's what my thing is.
This is, like, the actual thing.
And I talk to some big people.
So what are the writers asking for?
The writers don't even understand the problem they're in.
They're asking for more money because, obviously, the streamers, I mean, the streamers brought back an old system.
Back in the 50s, there was a studio system where you could go touch, you know, Harry Warner's door.
And the guy said yes or no.
And you had a movie or you have nothing.
Then Independence took over.
That's how he started my career.
You know, independent financing, independent production.
Did we lose him?
Did he run?
Oh, I mean, I can pick up where he left off.
So anyway, it's yesteryear.
And the streamer.
Yeah, it's I mean, my take on it is that, you know, the last time there was a writer's strike, it was against, you know, people who came up in the television, you know, industry and they're familiar with it.
And the strike was about new media, a little thing called web series, right back when it was called new media and they wanted to make sure they got residuals and that it was covered.
And now, you know, you know, 15 years later, it's about stream streamers and residuals for that.
But also there's the emergence of AI and they're not even going up against people who came up in the television industry.
They're going up against tech people who have literally no connection to the industry or it's very like it's more tenuous than 15 years ago.
And so on the writer's side, they want residuals for the streamers, mini rooms and like some possession over AI.
But I think that's a secondary thing.
But there are what they're doing is they're negotiating against people who literally want to replace them with AI, like literally are like, but what?
But do we need writers? So this is crazy.
I don't know what's going to happen.
Yeah, it's fucked up, man.
It's super. It's it's it's it's a fascinating, fascinating time.
And all I see is people on picket lines, like building up their, you know, their their social media profiles and like networking and stuff like that.
And it's like, great.
But yeah, I don't I'm not optimistic about where this where any of this goes.
The only good thing I think working in the writer's favor right now is that the Stranger Things guys are like, yeah, we're shutting down.
You know, we got solidarity, but you're already seeing people like Tom Hanks and Taika Waitiki, like they're trying to express solidarity, but they know that.
So I could talk forever like you're already hearing like they they're realizing that as long as the strike is on, they they stand to lose millions and millions and millions of dollars.
So there's a lot of like surface level support for it.
But at the end of the day, the bottom line is the bottom line and it's the people on top who stand to make so much money.
So and stand to lose so much money from the strike going on.
So there's going to be like pressure to do something.
But I don't I'm just yeah, I I have no idea what's going to happen.
I I just can't imagine a world where the writers get what they want.
Like, I just I just can't.
It's actually that's sad.
How long do you think it's going to go for?
I know the next negotiation is at the I think it's the end of this month.
Well, I I think.
I'm also like I'm a cynic.
I think it'll go like the earliest it'll be over, I think, like like early fall.
But I could I could see it going on.
It honestly depends because I don't know how these people are going to meet in the middle.
I don't know if enough people at the top, like if Tom Hanks, like takes a meeting with Ted Sarandos and he's like, look, dog, like cut a deal.
Give them mini rooms.
I think I think September.
But I but I but I don't know.
I really don't know that like they've never they've never had to argue with people who are this unreasonable before.
I think Nick is.
Yeah, it looks like Nick's gone.
He's he's rocking out.
There you go.
There's Nick.
Yeah.
Wait, do you see him?
He just came back for me.
Oh, there he is.
Yeah, I see him.
Yeah, there he is.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's super interesting to me, man.
You know, I think every industry goes through these cycles where technology like disrupts how things work.
And in a lot of ways, I think film, at least on the production and supply side of things has not adopted at the same rate that like other sectors have.
And, you know, like, they've obviously adopted in like the way that like the computer graphics and the technology and like the visual designs and all that stuff.
Right.
Like, I think that's obviously pretty cool and technologically advanced, but what I've experienced is much more limited than probably some of the people here.
But like just from the folks I've spoken with, like the sausage making of like how these things are made.
And like, you know, the kind of pre-production process and how like everything gets funded and how these license deals work.
And, you know, you've got these slate deals that really cover like multiple different franchises and different episodes within those franchises.
And so, like, even like an individual creator that's got like one badass show really has a hard time going up against a conglomerate that owns IP from like 15 different properties.
Yeah.
And so, like, I don't know.
I mean, I kind of agree with you.
Like, just as an outsider looking in, Skidat, it's like kind of seems like there are parts of this like supply chain that certainly are going to end up getting disrupted.
Which, like, in near term certainly is challenging for people.
Long term, like, maybe it's an opportunity.
I don't know.
Like, these bots still need to be built.
They still need to be trained.
For anyone who knows, like, anything about ChatGPT, like, it's not just as fucking simple as, like, downloading or going to, like, open AI.
And you're just going to type in some shit and all of a sudden it's like, it's your next Google.
Like, you have to understand how it is so, like, it is so generic.
ChatGPT, it is programmed for one thing, to serve as a personal assistant.
So, like, but that definition of a personal assistant can be obviously a lot of different things.
It's nebulous.
Yeah.
I need an assistant to help me with my job and my tasks.
I need an assistant to help me copyright movies.
Or I need an assistant to, like, help me, you know, blow, you know, create a bomb.
I think that I, like, we could play this game forever of what are the things that COVID disrupted.
But I would bet, I, I, I'm, my understanding is that the COVID sort of disrupted when the strike was going to happen, right?
If, if AI wasn't in the picture, right, it would have been an ugly strike.
Um, this time should be when writers are, ideally, writers are working with producers to learn how to utilize AI to its maximum potential.
With the strike settled, and then there's this new thing.
And then the strike happens, you know, in another, how, like, 10 years or whatever.
And writers, because, like, this is a tool.
And, like, writers could be working with producers to, to, like, utilize prompts in a way that can generate story.
And then it creates the next problem.
But now we're dealing with both of them at the same time.
And it's just stupid.
So, it is, it's interesting.
But my, my, I mean, the thing I always fall back on is the direction of capital always goes in one direction.
And that's up.
And it's going to be opportunity for some.
And it's going to be, you know, it's going to be opportunity for some people.
So, and, and I'm just choosing, I'm just choosing to look at it like that.
That's my song.
But the thing is, is that, like, I, it really does, if it's used in the right way, it actually allows for, like, a more rapid production cycle.
Because you can spend less time on, like, creative iterations and spend more time, like, curating more, like, call it, like, medium fidelity content.
Yeah.
But, like, producers don't know that.
I mean, not, not every producer.
But, like, the studio heads, they literally are like, how do we replace these pesky writers with AF?
Like, they, yeah, I mean, I don't know that they really think about it like that.
Like, I do think everyone in, like, everyone in America is, like, me too moment, right?
On chat GPT.
Like, you can't Google a brand and not find them talking about how they're going to integrate, you know, a bunch of bullshit.
But in practicality, it's very hard to execute in a way that's really going to be on brand for them and is going to have the parameters where the robots essentially act in a way that's controlled.
And there's an education gap, in my view, that they're going to realize pretty quickly.
And I think there's a lot of smart producers and people on the top side of that funnel that are probably thinking that way.
Like, you know, I don't, I don't know that it replaces them as much as it, like, maybe makes them better.
Guys, I'm working, I'm doing that right now.
I am doing that right now with an Academy Award winner writer.
And I'm putting together two chat GTPs.
But the difference of what I'm doing and what the studios and streamers are doing is that I'm not planning to replace the writer.
In fact, all the proceeds from the chat GTP goes to the writer.
That's how it works.
The studios, on the other hand, and I did a long explanation, but you didn't listen because I got disconnected.
But the real reason of the strike is AI.
It's not the money that is being owed to these writers.
It's AI and survival.
That language needs to be in this contract for the next five to seven years for writers to survive.
If not, only Academy Award winner and top writers like Sorkin and some other people are going to be in the game and everybody else is going to be replaced.
That needs to be fixed.
And that is the key issue.
The problem is that the guys that are running the guilds, these guys right now, they are not the smartest.
And they are not connecting with the studios, with the streamers.
And this strike could have been fixed like six months ago.
And now we're going to have the DGA strike, the directors, and then the actors.
So I don't think it's going to be in production until the end of the year.
And that really affected me on a big project that I was working.
So, yeah.
That's interesting.
I mean, just on the other side of the equation, though, like I'm not a fan of protecting certain industries just because they don't like.
Like, take manufacturing in the U.S. as an example, where the U.S. would like start saying like, you know, you can only buy steel made in the U.S.
so that we can protect these jobs, even though it's like way cheaper, like to kind of open it up.
Like, I do think that industries have to self-innovate.
But it sounds to me like the fundamental issue is in the value proposition that writers are at least perceived in this supply chain.
Well, there's been an abuse, constant abuse from the streamers, especially because the streamers brought back a system that the studios had in the 50s with the studio system where you would knock at Harry Warner's door and you would say yes or no.
And here's the money and go make the movie.
Then that system went down and then independent cinema.
I mean, that's the cinema, the films that I grew up and I made.
But then, like five years ago, out of the blue, the streamers replaced the studios of the 50s and said, hey, come to us.
We're going to fully fund you.
And you would go and knock at Tits around the door and you would say yes or no.
And you would have a movie or you don't have nothing.
The thing is, these guys took the whole industry by storm and they start to rewrite the rules.
And when they rewrote the rules, they tried to change writers from W-2 to independent contractors, don't give the benefits, start reducing on TV the writers' rules.
And the abuse continued until people said, basta, stop.
And they wanted to negotiate.
The streamers got really tough.
And in between, AI popped up out of nowhere in November and complicated everything even worse.
Now it's not even about the money.
It's about the survival.
So how do you think they really survive?
I mean, do you think they survive by a contract that protects them for five years?
Definitely language has to be in this contract.
It cannot be pushed to the next one because there could be very severe consequences.
I mean, not to the top writers, but to the young writers that are like joining a writer's room, getting minimum wage by union.
And then they're not going to be needed anymore.
And those guys learn.
And when they learn from the best, they become the best.
That's how Aaron Sorkin started.
That's how, you know, the big ones, they started from, you know, from the bottom.
But if you bring technology that is going to outpass, you know, that kid's knowledge, you don't need it.
You're just killing his career.
You're just killing his chances of becoming big and becoming, you know.
So that is what's happening.
What should be is that, yes, you can use technology.
And in fact, I have a project that I'm planning to do that with the writer, with the Kelly Award guy from Birdman and Revenant and his dear friend.
But what I told him is we bring the machines, but the proceeds are yours.
I'm not splitting to like, hey, I'm going to save half of the salary because this guy is going to co-write it with you or this machine.
No, no.
It's all for you.
Because at the end of the day, someone needs to manage the machine and it's his ideas.
So the machine is going to get his ideas better, but cannot eat on his proceeds or fees.
Yeah, and I love that approach, dude.
Like, I think that's the right answer is the writers are going to get smart and they're going to realize that they're going to build products to do their output and they're going to own the products, hopefully.
And that will be their business model is we sell these, you know, these different copyright services and you pay us, you know, maybe a subscription to write different drafts for you or whatever that is.
But, like, there has to be an admission that, like, we have to, and let's say we, because I'm not a writer myself, but there has to be an admission that they feel like they have to, like, innovate themselves.
Because otherwise, you're just going to have a five-year contract that protects them and guess what?
That's going to run and it's not going to be any more sustainable five years from now versus today.
Yep, and then what's great about that solution is that then Skynet rises up and kills the studios and the writers.
So it hates them both.
And that's how we, and that's what happens.
That could happen.
Yes, that could happen.
That could happen, you know.
Let's play with fire a little bit more.
Let's see what happens.
Yeah, I don't know about the whole Skynet thing and how that plays in.
I'm sure it does.
But I think more practically, this is something, like, you see this in a lot of different industries that are, like, somewhat behind the curve in how they use technology in the supply chain and how they produce their products.
And I think, at large, like, you're even seeing this in music a little bit with AI, right?
And the same opportunities, I think, exist if you look at them as opportunities versus, like, competitive challengers where it's like, okay, these are things that make us better, where we can streamline our writing process and we can produce more output and really own the content we produce.
And change the paradigm of, like, how economics work with the studios that buy our writing content.
Like, if I'm a writer, I'm thinking about how I own the business that creates these bots and how I train them in a way that's defensible and not, like, that cannot be replicated.
And that comes down to, like, really, like, I think one of the biggest waves of, like, labor that you're going to see in the next five years are, like, prompt engineers.
Mark my fucking words.
Like, this is going to be, like, a big buzzword on LinkedIn, hiring prompt engineers.
Yep, absolutely.
Because everybody needs to figure out how the fuck to write these bots.
Because everyone saw it in some press release and they want to have a Me Too corporate moment.
But it's very challenging to write these in a proper way.
I mean, I spent a big part of my career in AI and analytics way before it was sexy for, like, all these snowflakes in the room.
Like, AI has been around for 20 years.
So, like, what's changed really is the natural language processing and some of the abilities to, like, you know, create, like, on-demand creative or copy or things like that.
But in terms of the technology to produce, like, analytics and AI as you want to define it, it's been around for a long time.
I mean, big companies have been using it for a long time, especially in, like, marketing and other categories that I think have adopted it on the supply chain more, right, in terms of how they produce their content and how they do their jobs.
But, yeah, dude, I think this is going to be a super opportunity is the way I fucking think about it.
Like, who's starting up the, you know, the bot company that does nothing but, like, spit out fucking libraries of bots?
Like, and they're tested and, like, you know, they fit certain use cases and, you know, they don't go off-brand, so to speak, or out of compliance.
Like, you got to think about compliance for some of these big brands, too.
Like, a lot of shit has to be controlled, and you cannot control that with an open AI chat GPT format.
Like, it has to be a custom solution.
So, who's fucking building that?
Like, to me, the writer should go build that, right?
Or go find technologists that help them to build that.
Or, like, what Nick's doing, build that and create a different financial model for the writer.
Okay, fine.
Twist my arm.
I'll do it.
I'll have it ready by the next meeting.
It's, I'll get it done.
We'll talk about it at the next council meeting.
Well, you know, you guys are all sitting around on the street.
No, you're right.
No, you're right.
Go learn some fucking coding.
It's free on MIT's website.
Like, right now, just go there and start learning JavaScript and fucking React.
I am certainly not striking.
I don't carry the energy of a man who's striking right now.
Sorry, go ahead, Nick.
Go ahead.
No, I mean, I'm, my mentor teach me that when you have a big problem, like, you got to put everybody on the table.
And everybody needs to be happy in order for a deal to be made.
And here, you also have to involve Microsoft.
You have to involve tech.
You need to involve even the government.
You need to involve, this is a larger conversation than the writer's strike.
This is how to mix technology in the future with the past and the present.
And if I were, if I was, you know, the head of the WGA, I mean, I would engage Microsoft as well.
Because they invented this technology and it's also fair that they make some money out of it.
Maybe not as much as the writer who's creating the story and is going to use technology for an enhancement, not a replacement.
But if Microsoft is not happy, in the future, they're going to create something that, you know, may disappear everybody.
So engaging right now, engaging everybody right now, that it's an early stage of a problem.
That's what I thought.
And that's what I, you know, when I went to a meeting with my guild, that's what I said.
And I was very loud.
Some people didn't like it, but I don't care.
No, I love that, dude.
And I think the A needs to change.
Like, it's really augmented intelligence, not, like, artificial.
So, like, it really should be guiding and helping as a tool, the human, and not replacing.
And any real practitioner, like, if you go talk to the guys who are, like, hardcore AI, ML developers,
and, like, you know, these master Python coders or, you know, whatever, R-square, whatever softwares are out there using,
all of them are super wary of how these AI tools get used.
They'll be the first ones to raise red flags around, like, be careful in how you use this.
And so, like, it's an education gap.
And the people who really understand that industry and how these tools are built,
and especially, like, on the developer and tech side, they all know emphatically that, like,
if you don't launch these in a way where the human still stays at the driver's seat,
that, like, it can be a dangerous thing.
And ultimately that their tech won't work as well without it.
Because it can, there's just so many different facets to control.
There's so many different, like, variables and dimensions of, like,
what's actually happening in context of a given interaction.
That, like, there's no way that a robot could just, like, take over.
And those guys know it.
Like, the guys who are really developing this stuff, they know it.
I think it's just, like, the people that are on the outside and hearing about it in the press.
And, you know, let's just get the GPT right.
You know, GPT will just write all these fucking movies for us.
Like, easy button.
Like, let's go.
That's what Netflix wants.
They would love it.
I'm so naive.
I mean, yeah.
I should not be so vocal on recording.
But, yeah, Netflix is the issue.
It's not Amazon.
It's Netflix.
Okay?
Yeah, well, Netflix and GMI, man, that's already happening as well.
So, look at their numbers.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Netflix was the one that came up with the idea to, you know.
Anyway, I should just shut up.
Yeah.
I want to use technology, but as an enhancement, not a replacement.
And I got the writer who's game for it.
And, you know, we may eat some heat for this.
But why not?
Fafo, motherfucker.
Yeah.
I get it.
Well, dope, man.
I think.
Go ahead, Skidat.
No, I'm just saying.
What other topics do we have here?
Oh, we got a couple.
We got a couple.
Izor's got some news about an M.A.
You with us, Izor?
Yes, I am.
There he is.
Absolutely.
We had some news today about an M.A. fighter who's repping the D-Gods a little bit.
That's a watershed moment.
It was a guy hanging out with M.A. fighters.
That's what I do.
Tell us about it, man.
Yeah, it was a guy that was hanging out with Kamaru Usman and Francis Ngannou.
Izor is gone.
Okay.
Well, that's right.
We can hear him.
We can hear him, Skidat.
You can hear him?
Yeah.
I don't know what's happening.
Can I not hear him?
Yeah, you might have to pop off and come back in.
They're popping off and come back in.
Okay.
All right.
Yeah, it was a...
What's the story?
Go ahead.
Yeah, there was a U-Tolder that was wearing a Bitcoin hoodie, and he was hanging out with
Francis Ngannou and Kamaru Usman, who are two pretty well-known UFC fighters in the
space.
I don't know if you guys saw that.
It for sure wasn't photoshopped this time.
Did he buy my...
Did he buy NFTs?
Did he pump my bags?
Like, is he in?
Frank tweeted about it, and DJ News tweeted about it, so...
The dude has that U-T.
Oh, he has a U-T.
Oh, yeah.
That's dope.
Oh, Pelskidat's back.
You know who else?
Frank just changed his PFP back to a U-T as well.
That's cool.
Do you think there's going to be...
What do you think they're going to do with the U-T's that were attached to the BTC T-GOTs?
I thought they were part of the 15K.
Like, I thought they were already in the supply.
But I could be wrong.
Yeah, I'm not sure what they're going to do with it.
I mean, I would love for ordinal use.
I have a hunch they'll launch those.
How do you think they're going to launch it, though?
I mean, I think they'll say, if you have a BTC T-GOT, like, you have a tube to rip on Bitcoin.
Oh, that'd be nuts.
That's going to hurt even more.
I'm sure there are tubes that are tied to those, no?
Yeah, there's 535 tubes that are not...
I thought...
Yeah, I could be wrong, but I thought those 535 went into the...
I bet you that...
I guarantee you they end up ripping those out on Bitcoin.
That would be dope.
And also, do you see that D-GOTs and Utes, the Twitter profiles, they unfollowed everyone?
What do you mean?
They just stopped following people?
Or they unfollowed everybody?
Like, they unfollowed...
They're both following zero people.
Huh.
Was this, like, some sort of psyop?
Like, why the fuck are they doing that?
I don't know.
And then Frank tweeted, this is how Utes and D-GOTs go to zero.
Yeah.
Okay.
Where's Frankie, man?
I would love an explanation.
They're starting to do some stuff.
Stuff's happening here.
Who got Frankie in here last time?
That must have been you, Skidette.
Like, where's your fucking Frankie bat sign?
Look, my boy is kind of busy today.
And I'll hit him up at our next meeting of, at our next FUD group.
And we'll, we'll figure it out.
I'll bring him, I'll bring him by.
I got a lot of sway in this commute.
That's what we say.
That's what we call community.
That's what we call the community.
We call it the commute.
The commute.
Hey, Jess, boy, Chris, what are you guys doing?
How are you guys doing?
Hey, can I jump in here real quick?
Yeah.
Do it.
Yeah, for sure.
Right on.
So I'm actually on a bachelor party right now.
So I'm going to be real quick.
I just wanted to introduce myself because I've been tuning into these spaces for a little while.
I'll just add, like, here, like, I'm not a developer.
I'm not an artist.
But I got a good friend here who's actually on this bachelor party with me.
He's a big digital artist.
He's, well, I shouldn't say big, but, like, he's big into graphic arts.
Actually, locally, like, I'm Canadian.
So shout out to you, Coop, because I'm pretty sure you're Canadian, too.
A couple Canucks here.
Yeah, I got to be quick here because these guys are bugging me.
But look out for me next week because I want to talk to you guys a little bit.
I'm trying to onboard this guy into Web3.
He's been involved with the clothing line here locally a couple years ago.
That did really well.
And then he's been off of that for a while.
He's been looking for a bit of a project.
He's got a bit of art going on that is actually pretty cool.
And I think, like, if there's any sneakerheads here, I don't know.
Like, he's pretty big into, like, the Nike, all the Jordans and stuff like that.
And he's got, like, this – he hand-drew, like, a thousand different, like, Jordan shoes.
And I don't know.
I'd like to do something like that with that, with, like, youths.
I don't really know what we're going to do.
But me and him have to sit down and talk.
But I'll just say, like, next week I'd like to jump into this space and talk a little bit more about some stuff.
Because it sounds like there's some people on this community that can help out with that.
But also, like, I've noticed in the community with crowns and everything.
Nobody here is into Nike.
Nobody's into Nike.
I'm pretty sure Izor is.
I don't know.
I heard something last week.
Something about him hitting some kind of – I don't know what he's doing.
Jaw or something.
Nobody's –
Don't listen.
Don't listen to Skidette.
Dude, that guy.
See, that's a troll.
50% of the time, he's right all the time.
It's a coin flip with that guy.
Well, except for tonight.
He's 3-for-3 on L's.
No, I don't have much to say other than, like, I want to cook some stuff up with him.
But I think crowns is the right place to do it.
Honestly, like, Izor, your designs were sick, man, for those hoodies.
But this guy might have some designs, too, for some clothing drops.
That would be really cool.
I might get him to draw some stuff up.
But hopefully we can talk about that a little bit maybe next week.
Like I said, I'm on this bachelor party.
So I got to jump.
Yeah, our DMs are always open for you to reach out.
Right on, man.
Are you in the Discord?
I am, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Just hit us up in there, dude.
We've actually had some ideas around, like, how do we get people in the community to want to, like, put forward, like, designs and such for the merch.
Because we have the ability to really put out as many different items as we want without having to take on inventory.
Right.
So it's really just about as much as, like, we can spit out, like, dope designs.
And so we'll have a good platform, like, just with that as an example for him to be able to, like, do some designs and for us to, like, get those launched.
Like, that's already intact.
Like, yeah.
Yeah.
IZor did a really nice job on some of the initial designs, but we want to keep on doing, like, different drops, right?
So we'll do this first one for a limited time and then we'll roll out some other collections, which means, like, we really want to get some, like, a good constant channel of art and creative.
We're actually talking about this in the chats today, dude, like, how we want to get people more involved, especially on art and, like, and even on, like, the web dev side.
Like, anyone that wants to do any kind of web development or front-end, like, user experience design or anything like that, those would be awesome ways for people to, like, help out with what we're doing because we're all just kind of, like, pitching in with people from our companies, like, on, like, favors and shit.
Like, until we get this thing going, but it's not very sustainable.
Yeah, no, 100%.
I've been, like, I've been in, like, the NFT space for a couple years now and, like, I don't have, like, developer experience.
I'm not an artist myself, but I know, like, my buddy here, like, he was involved in, like, launching an apparel company.
He did really well and now, like, his job, he's looking for a local company where I am and he's doing all their media and also, like, their apparel designs.
So, like, I think he'd fit in perfectly, honestly, man, but I think he'd have some sweet designs, so I think we should be in touch here and then, like, I'll work with him to get some cool designs drawn up.
But I just want to get involved, man.
Like, I think, like, this crown thing, like, just listening to the spaces every week, man, you guys are cooking up and I want to be involved.
So, we'll be in touch, but like I said, I got to drop Oak.
That's facts, man.
Let's figure out how to get him a crown, dude.
100%.
Totally.
So, what's going on at that bachelor party right now?
Where's that bachelor party being held at?
I can't believe none of you people are asking him a question.
Tell me about this bachelor party.
Well, we're up in Canada.
I don't know.
You guys are already in Canada?
Yeah, we're in the Rocky Mountains right now doing a bit of golfing, but we're going to hit up some whitewater rafting tomorrow and then probably some strip clubs in Calgary.
Should they serve pancakes and maple syrup at the strip clubs?
Oh, 100%, man.
100%.
I'll wait.
We're close to BAMF.
We're in Canmore.
Bro, I'm on my way.
I'm on my way.
I'm in Cochran.
I could be there pretty quick.
Make it out, man.
I'll see you in Calgary on Saturday night.
Perfect.
That's good, man.
Okay, guys, I got to jump, but it was nice to meet you.
I'll be in the space of the week.
Thanks for popping up, Jess.
Appreciate you, bro.
Hey, Coob, what's up with this?
We didn't even talk about this, like, Top G PFP you got going here.
What is this?
Thanks for bringing that up.
That's an important question.
I've been wondering about that.
This is my introduction to Ordinal's, man.
What is this guy?
You guys can hear me now?
Okay.
It's Ordinal's Tort.
He's an under-20K inscription.
They're in a 555 PFP collection.
So, yeah, it's a turtle.
It's a tortoise.
I saw the crown, and, like, the rainbow even kind of goes with, like,
the apple glasses I have, and it was just calling to me.
Yeah, that's dope, dude.
I also, like, I'm a sucker for pixel art,
and I haven't had enough pixel art pieces.
So, yeah, this is my splash into Ordinal's.
I love pixel art.
But, like, wait, that's a turtle?
Yeah, man.
That's his neck sticking out of his shell.
Okay.
I would have never –
I thought it was, like, a magic worm or something,
or something psychedelic.
That does not look like a turtle.
But I'm into it.
That being said, I am into it.
There's some classic green, clean ones.
And, actually, I like those ones, too.
But, yeah, it's a turtle.
I thought it was, like, a mongoose or something.
I thought it was, like, a firetress.
Yeah, I don't think anybody had that as a turtle.
Nobody's picking up turtle vibes from this dude.
But he's very cool.
I'm into him.
I like that crown.
I like the – yeah.
I'm going to – I got to check them out.
Very cool.
Hey, have you guys heard of Podagos?
What's the price?
Have you guys clocked Podagos at all?
I was talking to Izor about Podagos, and they're, like – I guess they haven't, like, dropped their art yet.
I was checking them out, and I saw – it's like, okay, it's Podago dogs, right?
It looks, like, cartoonish.
It's kind of interesting.
And they released this digital comic book.
And all I thought was – I was, like, okay, this looks like it's a bunch of cartoon dogs, right?
I don't really know what's – okay, whatever, that guy left.
But I didn't know what to expect from it.
And the digital comic book that dropped is this moody-ass mini-movie about this dude with glowing eyes and a hoodie walking through a rainy night talking about how much his life sucks and how sad the world is.
And I'm, like, where is this going?
And he walks to this Podago, and outside is a glowing yellow box and a whimpering noise coming from inside.
And he's going to, like – he's about to open it up, and that's the end of the comic.
And then I found this art full of, like, Podago artifacts, like the Lava Bone and the Arctic Leash.
And I'm, like, where is this going?
So I don't know what – who are the creators, Izor?
I forget.
It's Easy Eats Podaga.
It's what?
Easy Eats Podaga.
Yeah.
And I don't know where –
You know the Nifty Portals?
Say again, sorry?
No, I was just – do you know the Nifty Portals or the Nifty Show?
Those guys?
Nick?
Yeah.
He's got that famous selfie with that, like, all-punk sweater.
I don't know where this project is going, if it's Magic Dogs.
And I don't know, like – I was not – like, all I knew about it was, like, Podagos.
And I'm, like, I'm here.
On the name, Podagos, I'm here.
But I'm, like – I'm kind of – I'm interested.
I am interested to see where they are going with these clearly magic dogs.
You have me at magic – because I believe all dogs are magic, period.
But, like, I'm fascinated by this.
So nobody's checked out Podagos.
Okay.
I just wasted everything.
Is it a big point?
I love people building in the bear.
Let's go back to Solana.
It's Solana, say, man.
Yeah, I mean, EZ's got a reputation in this space.
Like, he's a pretty good spaces host and does some cool alpha shit.
So, like, I'd support the guy for sure.
Definitely – I'm aware of it, but I haven't, like, gone into it to the level that you have, Elskedet.
Side note, I'm also curious to know, what are my two other L's tonight?
I'm confident I didn't have more than two, just on the record.
No, you had three L's.
You had –
What are my three L's?
Biggie, Green Day.
That was two.
That's subject – see?
What's the third?
And then –
What's the third?
And then the third was – it was something about you getting chicks, for sure.
No, that was last – hey, if you want that to be a forever L, that's fine.
Oh, no, that night in 2004, after I voted for Kucinich, listening to Green Day, super high,
which I didn't mention I was super high at the time, but I feel like that was implied.
It's amazing that we got such a great conversation about AI and Hollywood off of a conversation
that me describing Dennis Kucinich as being Jill Stein with a smaller dick.
I think I'm – yeah.
Okay, those are three L's.
I thought you meant tonight.
These are past L's, and I'm not confident that Green Day counts as an L, if I'm being
perfectly honest.
I don't think it does.
A major L.
Hey, Chris.
How you doing?
Check them out.
What's up, Chris?
I'm into using comic books as anything to promote anything.
I really love – I want to see comic books in the space more.
I really do.
I see a lot of potential for that.
Really cool way of storytelling.
I'm obsessed with comic books.
Shout out to X-Men.
A forever shout out to X-Men and Spider-Men.
Absolutely.
Good game.
What's up, Chris?
Doc, man.
We got people.
Doc's just listening in.
Yeah.
What's up, Doc?
How's work?
You working?
You on Aussie time?
He's saving lives.
Is it lunchtime?
He's curing cancer.
He's operating on somebody's heart, like, right now.
While I'm getting – while I'm being – well, I apparently am talking about L's from 2004.
He's, like, saving a life.
Somebody gets to go home to their children tonight because of – well, this – he's like,
I'm sorry, I could talk to you guys, but I have to save a life.
Is that your Australian accent?
No, it's my Doc Australian accent.
It's a very specific Australian accent.
That's like –
Okay, that's L number four.
That's another L, yeah.
That was a bad dad joke.
That was a terrible dad joke.
Doc Australian accent?
That's not going to catch on?
Oh, my God.
I don't know.
I'm feeling it.
I feel like we could do – we could do an NFT set of Doc Australians, and it's just
Aussie Docs?
I feel like that – oh, we lost somebody.
Wow.
We lost them.
That's it.
We lost somebody.
I don't know who that person was.
Oh, my God.
I'm going to shut up.
Eyesore, what else we got?
What else do you want to talk about?
I'm sick of you posting L's tonight, dude.
I'm not posting L's.
I'm just tossing them up.
Maybe – hey, Chris, how are you doing tonight?
Let's have some else talk, L's Cadet.
Hey, what's going on, guys?
I was totally –
I was totally –
You sound like my third-grade teacher.
This is always a great space.
I love listening to everything that you guys run through.
And I'm East Coast time, so this is like, you know, absolute end of the day.
The L in L's Cadet stands for L.
That's – we now know it.
We now –
L, I think you're rugged again.
Yeah, Cadet, you rugged.
Can you hear Chris talking?
I just removed him from speaker.
Go ahead, Chris.
I don't think he can hear everybody.
Can you guys hear me?
Yeah, yeah.
I don't think Cadet can hear you.
That's why he was –
Oh, yeah.
All right.
No, no, no.
I was just saying, yeah, no, it was totally content just to listen.
And it's lots of great topics, lots of great conversations.
And this is the end of the day for me.
So, I'm – by the time this space fires up, I'm pretty much – the tank's on empty anyway.
So, I probably am better consuming than I am offering anything.
But, no, it's always great to chat with you guys.
How is everybody?
Good, man.
Yeah, Thursdays are a vibe.
Like, everyone's kind of just chilling and, like, getting through the rat race.
We're out in the corner.
That's right.
The Canadians are having fun.
People like Skadet are dropping L's.
IZOR is, like, you know, doing his thing.
Big corporate America thing.
So, yeah, dude.
Where are you on the East Coast?
Well, I don't know if you like saying, but, you know, you're on East Coast time.
Yeah, I'm East Coast time.
So, this is – yeah, this is absolutely the end of the day for me.
Yeah, this is just kind of like, you know, kicking tires, trying to get a couple things to compile and then shut everything down, do it all over again tomorrow.
But, no.
You work on, like, the software development space?
Yeah.
So, you know, this is kind of rehashing the conversation from earlier.
Maybe, you know, next time it comes up, if I'm in early, we can kind of talk about it a little bit more.
But, you know, I really like the perspective that you had earlier talking about AI as an opportunity.
You know, that's what I do.
We – the company that I'm with, we do autonomous welding.
And the way that we look at the industry is that manufacturing companies, there's about a 4 million, you know, person shortage in the industry.
They can't – companies can't find people to weld.
So, that's kind of what we're developing our technology to do is be able to kind of fill that void, not just domestically, but internationally.
And we can do some stuff that other people just can't do, at least not yet.
So, we've got a lot of runway and a lot of opportunities in front of us.
And, you know, with the thing that we've been hiring for most recently is for all of our recent deployments, we've been getting operators, like cell operators and robot operators.
And these are all people that have a welding background, but rather than, you know, having to go through the process of, you know, apprenticeship and becoming a skilled practitioner and then even then being limited by, you know, the amount of volume that they can do in any given day or any given week or whatever else.
You know, things that they have the ability to access or, you know, the length of wells that they can lay down over a period of time.
That's just something that a robot has an advantage over.
And those are the things that we're trying to lean into.
And in some instances, it's actually becoming like an enabling type of technology.
So, you know, I kind of see all these things from different perspectives.
And obviously, anytime you've got disruptive type of technology entering the market, you know, there's going to be winners and losers on all sides.
But, you know, the one thing that's constant throughout life is change.
And one thing I try to do is when I see stuff that's coming, I try to get out in front of as much as I can.
And it's one of the reasons why I've been doing as much as I have recently is just trying to lean into everything that I can and learn as much as I can.
Because I think what you were talking about earlier about, like, prompt engineering and, you know, having to train the robots or having to train bots and everything else, that's going to be huge over the next 10 years.
And I think you're going to see a lot of startups start moving into those types of things, offering those kinds of bespoke technologies and stuff like that.
And it's going to revolutionize the whole software as a service space.
Somebody better pay me a fucking royalty for that idea.
You guys heard it here first.
It's on reported spaces, like, you know, shout out to Frankie and all the other, like, founders out there.
But, like, I'm over here spitting facts.
A hundred percent.
I mean, that got me.
Oh, man, what kind of tires on?
Because there's going to be opportunities there.
Yeah, no.
In all seriousness, man, I agree.
And I think it's a super interesting take on, like, in a manufacturing space.
You kind of just described the same example as the rider, which is, like, how are we using these people to actually train the softwares to be able to, like, build welding installments faster and to be able to get throughput better?
And you're really leaning into that.
And it's not really disrupting the people who would be necessarily training to become welders.
But the way that they do that changes in how they use technology as a tool, right?
Yeah.
And, you know, there's some things that a robot can do that a person just can't do.
You know, like, there's some of the stuff that we do.
Like, we do augers and we do truck chassis.
So, for, like, an auger, it's just, you know, think of it as, like, a big giant drill bit if you're not familiar with what that is, right?
And it's just one long continuous weld.
And, you know, that's something that, you know, for a human to hold a welder and stand over a part, you know, and try to maintain that position.
You can only do that for so long and maintain a given level of precision.
You know, a robot can just park itself there and do whatever it needs to do.
And then when you think about things like truck chassis, where maybe you've got upwards of 300-plus features, at that point, it just becomes a question of cycle time.
So, the faster that you can scan a part, the faster that you can actually go through and rip through and weld an entire thing, you know, there's a break-even point for where, you know, a robot can become more efficient than, you know, maybe a human welder.
And that's kind of what we're leaning into right now is how can we plan faster?
How can we, you know, how can we scan a part faster?
How can we do all that processing faster?
And, like I said, matched with the fact that companies can't, they can't find these people.
They can't hire these people.
You know, they have companies that are coming to, they've got backlogs of business that they can't deliver because they don't have the staffing to be able to do that.
And that's where technology is kind of stepping in to fill that void.
And, like I said, in a lot of ways, it's actually become, you know, a lifeline for companies who otherwise wouldn't have been able to increase their output the way that they have most recently.
So, it seems like, I mean, I don't know as much about the space clearly as you do, like even remotely, but would you consider that, like, on the S-curve, like, would you consider this industry as some, you know, an industry that is, like, early on, like, the technology adoption cycle or, like, more mature?
Or, like, I would say welding, I would say it's still very early.
Like, there's still stuff that we are learning and we are trying that we just don't have the technology to do yet.
But we do have things that nobody else can touch right now.
Like, the thing that we're most known for is our precision.
Kind of state of the art up until a couple years ago was, like, if you could get, you know, down to, like, maybe two or three millimeters of accuracy, you were, you know, you were as good as anybody, we can get submillimeter.
And that's just something that other people haven't been able to get consistently yet.
What we're doing right now is we're trying to figure out how to, because you get all these different seams and all these different kind of odd places where the robot has to kind of contort.
You kind of have to get in there and then you've obviously got, you know, limitations, physical limitations, because you've got cameras and you've got, you know, a welding tip that has to get in there.
And then you actually have to be able to lay down a weld at a certain angle so that, you know, it doesn't, you know, kind of start dripping or leaning one certain way.
It doesn't sit well.
And so we're, that's kind of a thing that we're still kind of going after that low hanging fruit of, you know, these are the types of joints that we know that we can do and we can do really well.
But we're constantly experimenting, constantly trying to learn, constantly trying to figure out how we can do new things that we haven't tried yet.
And, and everybody that I've talked with, everything that I've come to learn about the space is that, you know, a lot of people are kind of going after that low hanging stuff, but nobody's really trying to push the needle yet.
We're kind of leaning into that more than, more than anybody else right now.
And, and, and yeah, it's going to be really interesting to see what happens in the next five years.
I mean, like I said, we've got unlimited opportunities for, you know, how many units we can ship.
It really just kind of comes down to, you know, can we make it a worthwhile business proposition for the customers to want to sign up for this?
You know, can we, you know, can we, you know, deliver technology that, you know, delivers the same level of, of, of precision, the same level of efficiency and reliability as what they can do with regular staffing so that, you know, they're comfortable in scaling out like that.
So, but it's cool to see, man, like, you know, I've always found like, if you study like growth or innovation cycles, like in like growth consulting, like, you know, there's like a whole like academic kind of thing that like all the big box consultants do, like the Baines and McKinsey's and all those guys.
They always have these like processes that they use to evaluate, like adoption of innovation.
And, you know, there are these different points in the, in the curve and there are different like behavioral moments that happen with the, within each one of these cycles in terms of how the market participants react to a change.
And like very early on in the process, you get this like psychology very much of like fight or flight, right?
Like it's a very visceral or like polar reaction.
And you have some people that want to go out and like do everything they can to stop the technology adoption.
And then you have other people on the other spectrum that like, you know, really want to go to the other side and really push it.
And, and, but there's not a lot of people in the middle and you don't have like global adoption overall on anything.
Right.
You just kind of have these little pockets of, of, you know, theory.
And then you start to see as adoption, like goes up the scale on the curve, as you're looking at a chart, like you get a wider distribution of people that are adopting these kinds of tool sets.
Um, but then like the spectrum start to like, you know, they start to normalize a little bit.
Right.
And, and so like technology and innovation, then on one side of the curve slows down, but then like you see the tail of people who would never, or who normally would try to like find a way not to use it, who are like kind of joining the party.
Right.
But like, to me, the winners and losers really are like on that first part of the quadrant, like if you're moving across the scale, the winners and losers are the ones that like make a choice.
There's no worse thing in life than apathy ever.
Like not having a POV and not making a decision is the worst fucking thing you can do.
So like, it's those fight or flight moments, in my opinion, that like very early on in the process where you have certain businesses and innovators that like they make a decision very long, like I'm adopting this, I'm going on like full, I'm full tilt on like, I'm going to innovate and I'm, I'm even going to do things that like on the surface, like disrupt and put me maybe even out of business in some ways, because it's like counterintuitive to like why I exist.
Right.
But if you can figure out a way to like, yeah, obviously like build the net so that even though like the fish are moving, you're still catching them in the next pool, then like you're kind of leaning into a little bit.
Right.
But I think too often you see, especially in early adoption cycles with like Web3 or any kind of technology, automation, AI, augmented intelligence, whatever you want to call it, like you have these polar spectrums.
And, and I think the winners and losers are decided very early on just in like philosophy and, and really in just like a set of like, you know, I don't know what the term is, but you know, how much courage they have, I guess, in like being willing to do things that put them out of business in some ways.
Right.
Potentially.
That's a great point.
There's a, I, I wish I could remember exactly what it was.
I haven't thought about this in years, but when I was in grad school, I came across something.
Oh God, something online or something like that.
I think it was called like the Facebook, like little red book or something like that.
And it was just like a, like a picture book of just kind of some sayings and some cliches and stuff like that.
And part of what they talked about was, you know, their daily job is to find out is to invent whatever that next thing is.
That's going to put Facebook out of business.
Right.
Like they know that things are going to change and things are going to evolve.
And if they're not leading that evolution, eventually they're going to get left behind.
Somebody is going to pass them by.
Somebody is going to completely usurp them and put them out of business.
And, um, and I think it's a really interesting dynamic when, uh, when we start working with new customers, because everything that we really get into right now, it's, it's a partnership.
You know, we're learning as much from them as, as they are, you know, uh, adapt, adopting our technology as well.
But, um, but, you know, there are some people that, you know, they've, they find out about us and they say, you know, we've been looking for you, like, almost like you're our last hope.
Right.
Like we can't, we can't move the kind of volume we want to be able to do, or that we need to be able to do, you know, let's figure out what we can do to deploy X number of cells.
So we can get some volume out the door.
And then you've got other people that say, you know, wow, this is really fascinating.
You know, we don't necessarily have a need for, but we want to initiate the relationship.
And we want to explore some kind of partnership and see what it can eventually grow into.
And then you have other people that just say, um, it's a new, you know, technology, you know, come talk to us in a few years.
Once, you know, you've shipped a few more things, you've got a little bit bigger, you know, Rolodex of clients that you're working with.
You know what I mean?
I'm probably in that second boat.
I actually, I work in the mining industry, um, up here in Canada and, you know, we, we have a lot of heavy equipment and stuff.
I'm, I'm curious, like, uh, I'm assuming these units, welding units are not very mobile at the moment, but, um, like, do you see a future use case?
I mean, obviously it's going to, it's going to come, but, you know, in the next five years where like these, these welding units are like mobile and like able to work in all terrain and type of conditions like outdoors.
And, um, yeah, I'm just, just curious your take on, on how it, you know, could integrate into like the mining industry.
That's an interesting question because one thing that we've noticed is factory conditions can affect robot performance.
Um, and I'm thinking mostly from like the computer vision, AI, AI side of things.
Um, cause you've got the way the, basically the way that the technology works right now is that you've got, uh, you know, we, we follow like a CAD to path workflow and that you start with a,
with a 3d CAD file as like a, a, a, a generalized part template, but then you do a scan of the part.
And then with that scan, we do something called a deformed registration that basically takes that scan that we've created, you know, with the, with already that starting template that you have.
And then that's sort of what gives you like, cause every, every part that you use is going to be a little bit different.
Right.
And we have, uh, uh, you know, uh, a set of, you know, variants that we can operate inside of that, that scan that we do that gives us that actualized computer model of here's what that physical part is.
Well, that's how we assign seam placement and all those kinds of things.
All that stuff gets, is built into the, to the CAD file.
So if you have conditions where say like you get a lot of humidity or something like that, well, then you kind of have to be, at least again, these are things that we've kind of have, have noticed recently is that, uh, you know, that might affect, you know, maybe you get a little, a little bit of moisture or something that builds up on a camera lens.
And maybe you don't get a clear picture or something like that.
Or if you have something that's like tremendously dusty, similar dynamic.
So, um, you know, there'd probably have to be an overhaul in, um, the actual hardware itself to be able to operate in certain conditions.
Um, but, um, yeah, well, those are all designed things going forwards.
Um, we'll, uh, we'll take all the welders that you displace.
Cause I mean, it's the, the shortage is real.
Like I can relate there and not a lot of people want to work outside when it's like minus 40 and blizzarding, uh, you know, I'm, I'm on the contract side of the business too.
So, um, yeah, rarely do we have, you know, like good stable facilities to work in.
So like we, we'd basically take any warm bodies, you know, like the, the people that reject from the cushier, uh, welding jobs and they, they come work for us.
So, um, yeah, you know, we're in our industry, like, you know, as a contractor, um, most of the, like the owners will implement a lot more automation more quickly than we can.
But, you know, we do, we strive to be like one of the first contractors up here to, um, operate, um, automation and haul trucks and stuff like that.
But, um, there's a lot of risk on the owner side to have contractors doing that, um, and liability.
So we're a ways out from that, but I mean, like, even, even if it is five, 10 years out, like we're starting to have the conversations and get really serious about it, uh, at this point in time.
So, um, but that being said, uh, it's not an industry I necessarily want to be in for the long haul, but I would certainly like to see it go in that direction if I, if it would help me, uh, stay in this industry, I guess.
Yeah, that's pretty wild. Yeah. We had one sell up in, uh, I don't know what part of Canada. Um, I just remember that when people were traveling up there, um, you know, everybody was sending back pictures of how much snow there was and pictures of thermostats and stuff like that.
And I think one, one person, uh, had actually like a, a car had to get pulled out of a ditch or something like that. So, um, but, but the, the actual robot and everything else, it was within a, it was within a, you know, a closed factory.
But even then, I think temperatures weren't the most comfortable. Um, but, um, but no, I, that would be something I would think would be probably further down the road.
One thing we are expanding into right now though, is, um, beyond just welding, we're also getting into things like assembly.
So like hypothetically, you have a set of parts across, you know, a couple of shelves or something like that, where, you know, we'll actually go grab those parts, put those, you know, in whatever, um, however they need to be assembled for lack of a better term.
And then actually do the world at that point. Um, so that's like a little bit of extension of like our core functionality. Um, but, um, you know, the other things that we explore probably, you know, it's going to be things that make sense with the technology that we have.
I don't think we're going to, you know, go jump into and start doing Boston dynamics type of stuff, you know, just to do it. Um, you know, we want to make sure we leverage at the stack that we have right now.
So, but, um, and some of that might, you know, just come from people like yourselves where we have, you know, really good dialogue and, uh, you know, we've hit on a new idea that makes sense.
Hey, you know what? This is something that we think we can do. Let's, uh, let's, uh, let's whiteboard something, come up with a concept and see if we can actually build it.
You know, that's how the assembly work came about. So, well, dude, I was, uh, I was actually thinking that. It's funny you bring that up. I'm like thinking to myself, like, where does web three come into play in this environment?
Like where's the intermediaries and, or like, what are the friction points on like the tech side?
Like, what would you, what would you say, Chris? Like, obviously, like you have big files that you move around, right? Like you have CAD files, like, like, is that a major part of like the technology process in terms of like access to those files and whether they're transferring?
Like, do you have to spend a lot of money on making those available in a browser format for clients to be able to use the software? Or is it like native?
No. So the way that everything, so this actually might go back to the conversation we had a few weeks ago. We, um, the one thing that we're really trying to build out right now was like, like, for example, like if we want to, if we want to do a path planning or like a truck chassis part, that's got 300, you know, features that have to be planned for.
Or you might have like, you know, eight different trajectories that you have to plan, right? You've got like a free space plan. You've got an approach, a scan, a retract, another free space, and then you do an approach and then you weld, then you retract.
So if you've got what, 300 features, eight, that gives you what, like 2,400 seams or 2,400 trajectories you've got to plan. Um, what, there's a way that you can do a lot of these things in a very massively parallel way.
So a lot of what we're trying to figure out is how we can do these types of things in a cloud-based manner. Um, and, and with that, you have things like, um, some of the objects that you have to be able to kind of keep track of.
And I'm not so much on that side of things. So I'm going to be kind of, this is kind of the quick and the dirty version of stuff, but you have this, you have like a planning scene that is more or less a global object, but you can make, you can clone this and you can give kind of each, you know, when you're planning, you can kind of give that local object.
And then once you have whatever information you need, bring all that back to your, you know, that, that local object, bring it all back to your global.
Yeah. It's an atomic design structure.
Yeah. And then you've got other things like, um, like part meshes, um, collision models and those kinds of things. And you can, that's probably the most expensive part of all of that. And the way that there's a, there's a really well-known, uh, piece of software called Ross robot operating system.
Um, the way that they do everything is not efficient, right? They do everything and that you can't, um, everything's a constant object. You can't copy all this stuff around. So you kind of have to work around a little bit to do some of these things. There's other motion planning frameworks that are a little bit more efficient, more optimized. Um, and that's kind of what we're trying to build out.
But I would say really the, the, the, the heavy cost for us is not probably so much in the moving data around as much as it has the actual compute itself.
It's the compute. So you need, is it, is it, is it, sir, is it GPUs? I mean, are you looking for like true compute to run like big Python all goes on like a cloud platform? Is that, is that essentially what you're trying to do then?
Um, so the motion planning stuff is almost all C plus plus. Um, okay. And right now everything is the way that we designed our technology. And this is one of the reasons why like our, our technology is, is what it is.
And that it's very robust. We have tremendous precision, but it's not necessarily the most performant. And that's why we're having such a large initiative towards driving down cycle time is that we've chosen methods that are, you know, guaranteed to give you the most accurate results possible.
Like it's no different than like any other mathematical reformulation, right? You can, you can constrain a problem with respect to speed for a given amount of precision, or if you're willing to pay the cost and compute time, you can do something that's going to give you the most accurate solution possible or the most numerically stable solution possible. Right?
So that's kind of the path that we've gone. So now that we're, now that we know that what we can do technology wise, it's a kind of like a, how can we reformulate some of this stuff to maintain that same, that same level of precision, but reduce the amount of time under compute.
So right now thing is CPU bound. We haven't even begun kicking tires on what it would mean to actually do some of these things, either using FPGAs or using GPUs yet.
Or decentralized, you know, platforms to do that. Like, I think there's maybe a path there. So yeah, let me give you an example. So one of the companies that I had launched a while back, we still use it at the agency.
A little bit, but it was like an AI predictive software. And it was used for like marketing tech. And it essentially like helped identify, you know, different segmentation data on people real time. Anyways, it was a 1700 page algorithm that if you printed it out, like page by page, and it was I think it was that one was done in Python.
But, and what we were challenged with was how did we get a sub second response in the query result when you're running a 1700 page algorithm, right?
So it was how do you get like, very quick response time out of such like a cumbersome compute process. And we were running that on Microsoft Azure. And we were able to do it. But I can tell you that was like part of the IP.
I mean, it was literally like an act of God to like, figure out the way to very much like walk forwards and backwards through a math equation. So that like you said, you because that's the problem is you can go really and it's the same thing in statistics and AI at large, which is you can go really, really deep and precise, but then you can't go wide, or you can go wide, but then you lose precision, right?
Like those are your two vectors. And so like, what we were able to do was, yeah, at the time, this was before like web three really came out in its like full fashion, but we were able to kind of build that on a cloud platform.
And able to do like essentially like parallel computing. And there was like a data normalization layer that we had that would help organize and like kind of have like a naming convention structure that would speed up the math, essentially.
And so think of it as just like a bunch of little nodes that did little micro computations and then rolled up.
And, and, and so we were, we were able to do that on, on like an Azure stack.
What, what I think the web three tech with the benefit of decentralized platforms for doing something like this are, is a, like you're using various efficient GPU space because you're,
you're able to tap into a decentralized network of servers that can be much cheaper to access for like essentially RAM space on that software or that hard drive to be able to like run the computations on, right?
It's just a bunch of random servers that are set up to like, you know, mine nodes on the blockchain.
And so in that respect, it's very cheap compared to like a Google AWS or Azure model problem is then how do you move it?
Right.
And a lot of the innovation that we've been working on is around like the content delivery model and how do we like move it around really quickly?
So that is an example, instead of using AWS or Azure, you could use blockchain technology to distribute that media.
But it ultimately came down to taking advantage of more efficient processing of like essentially the same thing, right?
Blockchain transactions, which are formulas and math equations, the same way that your machinery is using formulas and math equations.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think like, I, I really think like the next step for us is that we actually start doing some work on algorithms.
Like I know that there's some other planning libraries that we want to be able to utilize.
We can't because of the version of ROS that we have with the move it package.
We just don't have access to those kinds of things.
But probably the, the, the, the lowest hanging fruit we have is like speeding up our collision modeling, right?
Like every joint you're at every, every, every way point, you've got like six joints or seven joints that you have to, you have to check.
And, you know, just the ability to like vectorize those would make, you know, just, you know, you know, massive speed up opportunities.
There's probably ways to do that with a, with a, with a CPU, especially if you're using like an Intel with AVX 512 instructions available.
But the smart choice is just to say, where can we, where can we find some stuff that we can just plug into a GPU and offload all of those things?
But like.
Local.
But I haven't spent any time on that.
I'm definitely not, you know, my background is applied math.
You know, I actually did some, some finance and some fintech before I got involved with the startup.
So I'm still learning a lot of the robotics and technologies that kind of on the fly here.
Dude, you should learn, like, honestly, man, like you should learn like Python or R square.
A lot of people like R square.
I, I, I honestly think that there's, and I'm not a developer myself, but like I ran an analytics team for a long time at a big fortune company.
And, um, obviously work in tech right now.
And so I work with a lot of developers.
And so I consider myself really close to like the solutions architecture side of the equation.
Um, but I think there's a way like conceptually where you can offload some of that stuff in almost like a parallel process and then onboard it back on.
Um, and you can save a lot of time and your math is just, and that's like, that's, it's really what a lot of these like machine learning and like big data kind of coding procedures, um, do.
Oh yeah.
The jump that we would be looking to make the equivalent to, you know, no longer using support vector machines and being, you know, on a CPU and moving over to using, you know, neural networks on a GPU.
I mean, that's, that's, that's kind of where we're at right now.
Um, right.
And how much would you save if you did that?
Oh gosh.
Um, just rough percentages, like, I mean, 30%, 33.3%.
How much did you say?
Yeah.
I mean, I mean, honestly, like, I don't know.
I mean, I can tell you that when it comes to cycle time, I do, I can tell you that we spent, when it comes to cycle time, 30, 30% of the code is, uh, or 30% of the compute time is spent in robotics code.
Um, and that's all, like I said, that's all on the planning side.
Um, if we're talking about.
Um, and then you've got different types of algorithms that you're using for different trajectories and whatnot.
You're using things for search based, uh, where you're talking about traversing graphs, other things you're talking about that are optimization based.
It's all sampling.
Um, but I mean, you know, six to one, one half dozen to the other, I would say, you know, we could probably chop it in half.
And that's just at the algorithm level because there's layers to this, right?
Like I said, there's the ability to take what we have right now, but then plan multiple trajectories at once, as opposed to going one by one by one by 2400 straight.
There's ways of being able to say, for given algorithms, we might be able to generate, you know, uh, 30 to 50% speed up.
There's other things we might feel, but to do like a, you know, a 10 X speed up or something like that.
So there's output, the output is tuning the motions of the robotic device faster.
And so you can turn these machines out faster because you can get them programmed quicker.
No, for us, it's the actual path planning itself.
So the robot goes in, it does a scan, and then you have to say, okay, we have this start pose here, this end pose here.
How can we, can we plot a trajectory that gives us, you know, say like we're planning a weld or something like that, right?
We know that the robot has to have certain positions at every point when it's laying down that weld.
So what we are doing is with that deformed registration, you know, that we have performed, assigning the, or placing the seam on the part.
And then, you know, having that computerized model of, you know, that physical representation, you know, of where that part is at within the cell itself.
What we need to be able to do is say, what is that optimal path that we can, you know, can we plan that optimal path or just planning it and then returning that optimal path?
And then with that, you've got, you know, not just the actual part itself.
You've got, you know, a padded mesh that we use to help, you know, reduce the chance of collision.
You've got the collision modeling that goes into all of that.
You've got all these kinds of things kind of working in symphony together.
And, you know, each one of those separately can probably be re-engineered.
But we're kind of not at that place right now that we have, you know, the funds or the staff to be able to go in and put out every piece of our robotic math and optimize the hell out of it.
Yeah, I mean, it seems like just like a lot of multivariate math.
And, you know, that's kind of what that tech.
I should introduce you to my buddy who was the chief data scientist when I ran the analytics department.
He's like a whiz at this stuff.
He worked in banking for a long time and has just, like, worked in a lot of regulated industries.
But he's a savant with math and with, like, how to get it, like, done quickly.
I guess it's an easy way to put it.
Yeah, I've actually got more of a HPC background than I do, like, an actual traditional software engineering background.
All the engineering I just kind of picked up just from kind of being on the job.
Right.
But, yeah, like I said, it just, you know, to kind of give you maybe a little bit better context, like, the scope of my work is basically, you know, this is a startup, right?
Like, we have, you know, we have code that is, for the most part, written by people that are mechanical engineers that don't have a deep software engineering background, right?
So we've got very tightly coupled systems, you know, things are very fragile, right?
We want to extend something, three other things fall over, you know, there's a lot of spent in, you know, time, you know, doing bug fixes for things that we just shipped.
So, like I said, we're just, as an organization, we're just not at that point where we can go in and say, okay, let's tear apart all these components and let's actually do some research.
You know, let's go see what, you know, current state of the art is.
Let's go kick tires on some of these research codes that are available or other path planning libraries that are out there and we can actually do some proper benchmarking.
That's part of what I'm doing right now is I'm actually building out, like, a proper benchmarking suite for some of our trajectories.
Because right now, if we want to test stuff, we actually have to kick off the entire pipeline.
And that takes a really long time.
Yeah.
So, you know, like I said, that's just how, like I said, it's just where we're at, you know.
The company is only about maybe four or five years old.
You know, we are new.
I'm the new guy.
I've been here for, I'm probably coming up on about a year.
So, of everybody on my team, I am the newest person on my team.
You're the new guy.
I got a question.
Yeah.
So, that process, like, it sounds, you know, at the stage you're at now, like, inefficient.
Like, you know, and speaking of Web3 intersections, do you see a point in the future where you could take ownership of, like, your process and design files for, like, repeatable tasks?
Where you could almost, you know, have, like, a lease or subscription model where you're basically selling your processes and designs to, you know, other people with the software and equipment that you have?
Oh, you're saying it's like taking a royalty on it or something?
It's basically licensing the IP then.
Yeah, exactly.
I mean, it's something that, so my direct report is the director of robotics, and it's something that he's floated.
I mean, there's never been any, we've never really had any concrete conversations about it, but, you know, it's been floated that one of the things that we have on our roadmap, and we kind of have the blessing to do some of this.
We just don't have the bandwidth to yet, but to actually take these tightly coupled systems and actually decompose everything into orthogonal components to help enable and unlock some of that, you know, parallelization work that we want to do.
Because not only are we stuck with, you know, having to run everything through, you know, this inefficient compute workflow, but anytime we want to change our workflow, anytime we want to create a new, you know, we want to be able to, you know, weld a new type of, a new feature or something like that.
But, you know, we don't have those building blocks that we can reassemble a new pipeline.
We have to do a lot of major surgery to make all those things play nice together.
And then, of course, there's all the debugging and all the testing and everything else because it's still going to be somewhat fragile.
So, and like I said, that's just kind of what comes with, you know, with startup.
You know, we're not at that point where, you know, we've been able to go through and do all of that yet.
But, but I mean, it's something that has been floated.
Is it something that they would want to pursue as a strategy?
You know, I don't know.
But I think that's a fascinating concept because like one of the benefits of Web3 in decentralized frameworks is just like how rapidly technology can be developed.
And it's because like you open up the platform and people can build on top of things.
I mean, that's, that's kind of how Ethereum works, everything, right?
And that's why you see innovation and you see like technology advancements happening so much faster in like a Web3 cycle.
I always joke, like we've learned probably in 10 years in crypto what it took like traditional markets 100 years to figure out like in traditional finance.
And like, you know, we've learned it the hard way in a lot of ways, right?
But point of all that being there are going to be people that are able to do pieces of this process better than you because of a variety of different reasons, right?
Like resources, timing, roadmap, capacity, all these things you described.
Like if, if you fundamentally had the IP, like at the like very primitive layer, think of it as like, you know, the Ethereum blockchain, right?
It's the primitive like highway on everything.
And then people can go and like build applications on top of it for the optimization and, you know, the decompile, recompile process and like all of these different pieces.
Um, and then ultimately roll that back into like different modules that a company could use just like we would use a D app on top of the Ethereum blockchain, right?
And of course, Ethereum didn't have to develop the wallets necessarily.
And they didn't have to develop like the trading tools and the marketplaces, like, you know, they didn't develop any of that shit.
They just made an open protocol that people could build on top of.
And they figured out a way where every time that happens, like their, their, their highway gets paid, right?
All these little nodes get paid.
So, I think it's actually a fucking very interesting concept.
Like, I don't know.
The, uh, the, the job I had before this, uh, doing FinTech, um, you know, the, the library that we, you know, part of the technology stack of like 70, 70% of all tier one investment banks worldwide.
Um, we were really known for numerical optimization software, uh, things like, um, oh gosh, it's been a minute since I've done this.
Um, you know, everything from, uh, sequential quadratic programming to interior point methods to semi-definite programming and a whole bunch of stuff in between.
And we would work most closely with like the risk management desks for hedge funds or trading firms.
And, you know, rather than them trying to implement their own numerical optimization, which is a non-trivial task, you know, they would outsource it to a company full of PhDs that were experts in this stuff.
And they would pay for that licensing and then just write all of their models and then just plug into the software they were, that we were providing because they realized that it was so much better for them to just outsource that to somebody else.
Who's really, really, really good at that.
And they can focus on what they do best, which is modeling.
I mean, yeah, yeah, dude, I think, I think that's a really interesting concept, man.
I don't know.
I mean, you know, you're in a shoe better than I have, but maybe you can cook on that a little bit and just think about it.
But I think there's a way, it seems like there's like a real innovation that you guys have in terms of like, you know, there are certainly use cases where that precision, like take that same advancement.
And let's say somebody wanted to build our equivalent of a D app for surgical use, which would be another use case in which we needed like a very high definition of precision, right?
Or it's lasers or whatever, cutting people.
Right.
Like you guys wouldn't want to necessarily have to go out and do all that R&D, right?
There would be some other company potentially in a completely different vector that would find it like quite novel that you guys have found a way to be so, so precise.
And if only they could build on top of that and, and build a healthcare use case for, you know, their robots that do lasers on surgeries versus welding on iron, you know, take your, take your little nut, you know, your little 5% residual or whatever, and, you know, let them go build on it.
No, that's a great point because there's so many ways you can license that too.
And that was, and we would, and we would get creative.
Like when I was with that fintech company, we would get creative with that.
You know, sometimes it was a flat fee.
Sometimes banks would pay us a big chunk of money just so they can license and install it wherever they want.
Other times we might get creative and say exactly what you said, which is, you know, you draw up a revenue share and that's, you know, whatever, whatever they generate, you know, we get a percentage of that.
But, um, yeah, there's so many ways you can carve up that nut.
Some of the most successful business models I've seen, man, where I actually have a buddy that, um, I've done some work with and that's all he does is just ideas and patents.
And then he spends money to go build like MVP prototypes.
And then he finds a company that wants to buy it and, um, you know, build it to suit.
And he just builds just enough of the platform so that somebody can build on top of it.
Um, I just think it's a really interesting business model.
And of course it doesn't need to distract like what is the core business and you guys can continue doing like whatever you're doing around, you know, welding.
But, um, it seems like there's just so many different applications where you would need like that level of precision, you know, in military and security and healthcare and, you know, a lot of these different spaces.
That's a great point.
Um, I guess maybe that comes down to, um, welding to some degree, but I guarantee you aeronautics engineers have a similar challenge of, um, running paths of like different air currents over like aerodynamic.
Like think about trying to test out the different dimensions of air current going over a plane.
Like that's also a multivariate like path analysis that they're looking at to determine like what's the least amount of friction in the angles of how they weld.
Right.
Or how they shake the metal.
Um, so I wonder if like those guys were, would be able to use it to help like drive better, you know, CAD drawings on, you know, aerodynamic features of vehicles or planes or trains, right?
Whatever.
Maybe it doesn't have to do with welding.
So it's novel that you can be so precise, like at its most primitive level, right?
Well, and that's what, that's kind of what the secret sauce is, is that disability is what allows us to take on certain tasks to that, you know, and satisfy certain sets of requirements that other people just can't touch, you know?
And there's been a lot of other companies that have looked at certain types of projects that, you know, seeing what we can do and seeing how well we can do it.
They've been very candid to just say, go ahead.
That's yours.
We're not coming in on that domain.
We don't even want to try to compete with you guys on that.
Um, so you're right.
It is.
And that's part of what becomes that unlock of that's what gets us in the door to start trying new, more complex, more hard to get to type of seams, types of, you know, uh, types of features that, um, you know, having that, that you can kind of, you know, anchor.
It's like your North star, you know, that you can build around that.
I fucking love it, man.
I think that's what I love about web three, man.
You know, cause like you meet people in like completely different spaces and like, you know, you can just like fuck around with five people in the Twitter space and, and like actually learn some shit.
Um, I, I, I've learned a lot more about robotics than I ever thought I would, uh, it's so cool, man.
Uh, anyway, but yeah, dude, I think there's, yeah, we should just keep a wrap from him in.
Like I cook on this a little bit.
I mean, I think take what you learned in this space and I think there's some, you know, some parallels that you'll find like, Oh, wait a minute.
Like this is kind of the model where like, if you have a decentralized, like open month, it doesn't have to be in how you distribute your, your stuff.
It could be in how like you expand and scale, like the different ways that like precision can be used.
Like, Oh, yeah.
Like precision doesn't even need to be defined.
Like take it out of the sentence.
Like, you know, or I said precision of what, right?
Like it doesn't have to be welding is the point.
And the only way that you can really scale that is like in a very open, decentralized, like R and D strategy in my opinion.
Yeah.
I think the parallel that you made with, uh, like surgical procedures, I think is, is an excellent, you know, like first place to look.
Right.
Because that's obviously a place where, um, the utmost precision is required.
You know, you can't be, you know, you can't not be precise in doing those kinds of things.
So, so could this be implemented on like, I don't know how those products work.
I know we're running fucking late here, so wrap it up, but I want to talk about this system installing my neural link.
I know, dude.
Like, I feel like we've got to go like invent some shit.
But do these robots though, do they, um, did, would it, would it be interoperable if it was like, yo, I want to use a laser, I want to use a, I want to use a radar, I want to use a, um, a scalpel.
Like, think of the different like apparatus items that you would need precision on.
And like a radar of some sort would also need precision in tracking something, right?
Like, um, whether it's like a video keeping track with an object or whether it was like a plane keeping track of some sort of radar frequency.
Like, you know, there's precision that's required in all of those technologies.
Um, if it really comes down to math and to a process that, you know, by which you're able to get like more granular.
Um, and it's a geospatial granularity, right?
Like this translates into, we can actually move something to a very finite degree.
Right.
And so like, there's a lot of use cases for that where like, okay, well, what am I moving?
Like, am I moving a laser?
Am I moving a gun?
Am I moving a radar apparatus?
Am I moving a knife?
Yeah.
Oh, that's all good.
The, uh, I guess the one thing I'll say, maybe this is, maybe this would be a good place to wrap it up is that, you know, we've been talking a lot about like the motion planning stack.
But two other places that are equally important that kind of play into like what you've just kind of been getting into is like the perception, because that's actually like how you, how the computer sees and how it models and how it internalizes all of that stuff.
And then there's also like calibration, right?
Because you're always going to have some offset.
Like it's never, it's never a one-to-one mapping.
You know, what you see is, you know, a millimeter this way, or it's actually like a half millimeter that way or something like that.
So there's all, it's kind of, like I said, it's kind of like this larger complex system that all kind of plays into one.
And, you know, your ability to plan stuff is only going to be as good as well as, as your system can perceive and how good that calibration is.
But that's one thing I don't have much visibility on is the actual, like, uh, I have spent some time in the calibration stack, but I have not spent any time over in perception.
But I do know that is something that they just rolled out something new for a new customer.
Um, because everything that we've done up to this point has all been laser stuff.
And now they're trying to move into things that are like LED based and stuff like that.
Um, the exterior, uh, perception type stuff.
But same primitive though, right?
Like it's the, the concept of precision is really what wins the game there.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
Like I said, it's just a matter of how all those things kind of work together to be able to drill down into that one particular, uh, characteristic that, you know, is the unlock.
Yeah, dude.
Well, let's keep it wrapping, man.
I know, uh, we've been on the spaces for a while, so appreciate everybody hanging out.
Uh, I enjoy these immensely every single week.
So hopefully everybody that's in here has done the same.
And, uh, yeah, as always, man, hop in discord.
Anytime anyone wants to like just network, come up with different business ideas, like figure out how to like add different perspectives to things.
Like, that's what, that's what I love about this shit, bro.
That's what it's all about.
What's that?
All right, fam.
Izor, you got any, like, Izor probably over there, you know, getting ready for a second day on the job.
Yeah, I feel like.
Getting a Nike tattoo.
Yeah, I feel like we talked a lot about, talk about a lot of things and like discussed a lot of things that like I never even thought about or like understood.
And I still probably don't, but like, it's all, it's always, it's always cool talking about things and just learning new things from people you just never meet in real life and just talk to over, over the internet.
So, that's pretty dope.
Be a sponge and do not fade the person on the other side of that fucking JPEG because it's some gigabrain like Chris.
Yes, sir.
Straight up.
Have a good night, y'all.
We'll catch you next week.
Peace.
Peace, buddy.
Cheers, guys.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
Peace.
