Thanks for joining thanks for inviting me
Yeah, so zen doesn't speak in recorded spaces so it's just but he's helping me out by being here and I appreciate it so
Well, so I talked to creators guide and I used
Gave me some ideas the number one
Q star rumored to be a project by open AI represents a significant leap towards AGI
Two is hyper realistic deep fakes and electoral impact
There he was AI powered autonomous weapons and then in parentheses killer robots
But I'm a doomer here today GPT
The integration of AI into military technology that's led to the development of autonomous weapons
The other ones are just kind of boring
The last one is public perception and AGI
Understanding how the public perceives AGI their concerns hopes and how these perceptions might influence
dental hygienist I told her that I was
You know interested in AI and just like
doing that as sort of a pastime now and
She's like, oh, well, do you think it's gonna kill us everybody?
It's gonna kill us. I was like her first question. It was very intense and I was like, I
Don't know. What do you guys see? What are you guys hearing out there from the lay people that?
Don't really use it. How do they react if you say?
AI is a hobby sort of thing or AI is making up all of your time and you're obsessed with it. I
Get to extremes I get almost nobody who accurately
Seems to have a grasp on what's happening. It's either people who are completely
underwhelmed by it or or unimpressed or skeptical or as people who
like you ask like that that really bold question of like is it gonna kill us all like are we do like
It's clear that they're just listening to you know, people like Elon or or others who are like saying really sensational extreme polarized things
sometimes, you know, I'm not saying you on is
Suggesting that like it's gonna kill everybody but like he and Sam Altman have been it's a pretty famous
Moments on on big public stages where they've talked about how like it could go really bad
They kind of they kind of just put the fear of of God and the people and that's it's generally those two extremes and I
Try to coax the conversation to a more nuanced position about how it's gonna cause damage and pain in the short term and then you
Know probably do some really great stuff for humanity long term
Yeah, yeah that sounds about right, um
Yeah, I'm trying to remember how I responded to her
I think I said something similar. I'm just like
Yeah, um, well a lot of what up well, I was saying
a lot what we're seeing right now Jess is
This like these like phased sort of
Incremental steps towards what is
Going to be a huge like displacement of let's say just jobs. Let's use this one example jobs
It's not as though overnight. We're gonna lose 2 million jobs
but it's like if you look at like some of the biggest game companies like
Quarter over quarter for the last like six quarters. They downsized 12 percent 15 percent 18 percent
8 percent like like clockwork and when you look at like all of that added up after six quarters
It's like you end up realizing it. It's like, okay, this is like
Like 50% of the workforce
Like 50 but like, you know
It's a huge percent like 35% of the workforce already gone in a year and a half and when you look at it
So again, it's kind of like putting on weight right or losing weight
It's like it it happens gradually and one day you wake up and you just look in the mirror
You're like, oh my god, where'd it all go? But like you didn't see the process going. It's the there's the frog
You know bringing up the frog to boil it to death in a lot of water
It won't jump out because the temperature changes so gradually it doesn't realize that it's it's getting cooked until it dies
I'm seeing a lot of engineers in particular
Who are open to work especially in the Portland area on LinkedIn
And I don't have the data but enough to be like wow, this is a lot of people it's noticeable
Yeah, you just you see the number of notifications of the feed
Yeah, I noticed that too or like those little green circles and the LinkedIn around the open to work around the profile pictures thing
Like I've seen oh, yeah, just didn't it seems like a more noticeable rise in that
And and the games business is cyclical don't you wrong I've been here for you
I always spent like 12 years in games business. So we get a pretty good sense for what the cyclical
and the churn through the different like studios and
publishers and you know entertainment companies feels like and like
Right now it is all outflow. It is so there's so few opportunities being created like proportional to the amount that's being axed. It's
It's scary and this is just this is just the pre like the preemptive. This is just the preview
These are the companies trying to get ahead of it by just dipping their toe in the water
This is not the cannonball the cannonballs haven't happened yet
This is just the little tip in the toe in the water to get the gauge the temperature and people don't realize that
Areas where positions are
across the board that people have that you've seen patterns of because I think that I've seen
more of these sort of like
R&D startup within a large corporation sort of new team like innovation team
But if they already have an innovation team or R&D like it's even more bleeding edge sort of thing
At work day that they're hiring for so
No, good call out because this is a it's similar to that what I'm like watching and I'm like sort of really get
Beat on are these yes gee
incentivized investment funds and
institutions like Vanguard or BlackRock where so in the entertainment industry, there's a couple of these like
Yes, G firms that do like diversity and inclusion
so they come in and they specialize in evaluating what your game is your story lines your characters your
Your your gameplay mechanics your your narrative arc and what they do is they like look and identify
For risks to offend people so that they and sometimes it goes like really far woke into like woke category of like they'll create
Don't just create demographics that they think could be offended by something
Or they'll push that they'll like strongly advise the introduction of like really progressive
You know like narratives or storylines or development choices
They'll you know, there are businesses that like heavily stacked their board
Like just like women even like even like trans women that they're talking about like having bored of the board members that are trans
board members that are pansexual board members that are you know, and and and they're again into these like advisor companies that are
That seem to have a lot of overlap with like so it'll be some small like some small
Consulting firm that you've never heard of but their logo garden will have all of the biggest publishers in the world
And you check it out and this is not a scam like a like a fake ad company user
It actual this is an actual company and when you look at the overlap with all these companies
That they are clients for these these ESG consultants
You'll notice that BlackRock or Vanguard will be like 20% holdings or 40% holdings in
I'd say I'd say Activision Blizzard is free float or they'll have 40% holdings in Riot Games free floats
And then these companies are the ones that did business
With this this like ESG DNI consulting firm and what you find out is
You know a company like BlackRock
Or some big venture fund some big investment fund
In order like one of the one of the qualifying criteria for that for you to be a portfolio
You know company in their fund is that you be making these types of investments or these types of plays
Because then on their books they get these certain types of incentives or certain types of you know
Kickbacks or rewards or incentive structures for from like governments and states federal and other in other countries
So it's like a really interesting complex web where it's like a lot of the decisions and a lot of the
Opportunities that are being created will be inside of these businesses that are bolstered by these initiatives that are incentivized by these
100 trillion dollar fund assets under management funds, you know, it's a it's a crazy web of connected tissue
But that's where your opportunities will be created right because it's sort of architected that way
Yeah, but will it be even enough to
Begin to scratch the opportunities that are
the surface of the opportunities that are being destroyed, you know and
and if not, why not because
You know is this like start up within a
You know, maybe you have a few of those here and there but
Why why is there so few of those like should we see that growing more? I
Yeah, look up and look look up look of the company because I think it's called sweet baby sweet baby, Inc
That's this that exactly like it's called sweet baby, Inc
And it's this like consulting management consulting firm for games
And this is the what I'm talking about and when you look at the client list that they have
It's absurdly stacked and then when you look at like take two when you look at Activision Blizzard
You look at Xbox game studios. You look at these
These portfolio companies and you see, okay, who are the largest holdings of all of these companies?
It's gonna be either BlackRock or Vanguard
guaranteed and then you look at what BlackRock and Vanguard's requirements to be a portfolio like important like in one of their funds being
That they will hold a large quantity of sometimes upwards like I said of 20% of the free flow of a stock
one of those requirements is this like strict DNI ESG compliance sort of
Participation thing and it's really interesting
Welcome to the stage mentis
Yeah, I'm just hiding back in I was like it it's sweet baby trying to
Um, yeah, I meant is you have such ridiculous
People happy with the UI of chat GPT app
I'm having it's just like the writing is too big
Or something but it's it's really not that big but it's just like
I don't know. I don't know how they can improve it. The writing's too big. I
Just want to have more like I want to have ability to like zoom
Mobile view like I rather just going to chat open ad I come in my mobile browser than the actual app sometimes
But the app I like for other reasons too sometimes
But then when it stops, that's the thing I can't tell sometimes it'll stop it
It is it is really frustrating and then you're gonna manually scroll to get the bottom
So it's so funny imagine that like tonight we were just implementing into the we GPTs app
this cool technology where basically if the focus view of your scroll of your window includes like the bottom x
percentage of the pixels of the page basically think of it like the end zone of a touchdown like of a football field if
That's within your field of view
Then the auto-scrolling kicks in and it can it'll just continue to pull your focus downward and as soon as you scroll up a
Certain percentage of that pit that end zone out of your focus view it will no longer auto scroll
But it'll keep generating all the tokens
He is but as soon as you scroll down and get enough of that that bottom that page within view boom
Automatically picks up your focus again and keeps going it's really smooth and again
All these little tiny areas like you just honed in on exactly the frustrating area that is annoying about the chat GPT web mobile app
We won't have that problem. We are acutely aware of how big of a difference that little thing can make I
Know yeah, and I I love that and I think that'll that's definitely an advantage
Because they're just not good at it at opening eye and they they must know it. They don't really care
They're not prioritizing that I guess but it is, you know something that
Has to affect retention has to affect
You know experience so I'm glad that you guys are addressing it you're sort of a
Like you have natural talent with the
Customer experience sort of thing. I think Josh so
with you and your people that'll be
This little stuff, you know, it makes you tired. It just drains your energy a little bit
So where you would be using that maybe for another hour
It's like cut off a little bit
At least for me, that's how I deal with it
Avoidant attachment to GPT I guess
What you just you don't understand me that space in DM, right
Yeah, that's good. That's quantum. I'm hundred percent
Calendly with me tomorrow. I don't think it is Josh. I don't know
100% that is that is quantum
Yeah, like I'm so curious to adjust like was that you not one space that we were hosting with that black coach lady
I'm pretty sure it was you. I mean my memory is kind of fuzzy
You guys was it rosemary or was it?
The last there was a space last time where I had a lady that's
Don't remember their name
Store that's what I remember for the most fun. Oh, yeah, I believe yeah
That was the last space that I did. Okay, that makes sense because I remember like
It sounded like you were live streaming or something. So you're doing something in the background something like that
So that was an interesting space for sure. I
Don't think I was live streaming, but I was doing other things. I
Guess like what I mean by that is like simulcasting because I know like some Twitter
People they will host a space but also like simulcast like in the background or something
So it kind of kind of felt like you were just wondering if you actually have a setup like that
Guess I don't think so. I just use my phone. I
Was in a hotel for that space
With a different physical space a different state, but also what stood out to me that days the sound quality that you had
That's what got me wondering. Whoa. Do you have like a studio or something? Like it's like it's kind of crazy, man
Yeah, the walls here are not as like I do remember in that hotel it was very quiet like the walls were quite thick
I don't know. It's interesting. I mean maybe I
Mean I have good Wi-Fi I have
like really good Wi-Fi, but
Some sometimes it's not it doesn't seem like it's good. I don't know
From my vintage one of the listener it sounds crisp so kudos for that
Moving on but thank you. I
Let's see, it's weird right now with spaces because I see
For listeners and then it says one other listener like you couldn't list that other listener because
All I have are they can't list the other listeners because they're listening to anonymously
Just like the listeners X just do it you can't you understand there you can
Right, you know, there's that option now to join a space and listen anonymously. Yeah, but I didn't I didn't make it that option
No, and you don't have the choice people when people join a room. They can listen anonymously now
It's out of your control. So it would just say two more people are listening, but it wouldn't tell you who
Okay, but I can't allow for incognito people when I create a space
Hmm you mean you can toggle that on and off whether or not it's allowed. Yeah. Yeah, that's news to me
Are you sure you had that off for this space
Yeah, pretty sure cuz I'd never turn it on well
The the other guess I have is it's something related to listeners on the browser, but still it should be able to show them
Yeah, I'm gonna test it I'm gonna leave and come back and try and listen anonymously no, okay
All right. I'm pretty sure I didn't know because I don't usually do that not to say I never will
Because maybe I'll just surprise y'all one time
So stay tuned for that exciting
Now everybody's leaving I didn't mean to point out
Complain about eggs such that
So then I can't send you emojis right now. Okay, it's probably this is probably me. This is probably a me thing
Right now I'm gonna I'm gonna screenshot this
Okay, then I replied to the space with with what it looks like for me
We'll see I surprised myself even
But there is definitely a definite bug
When I click on zen's profile to send him emoji back
Like if I were to send the emoji it would report and review because it's right and
The report and remove is super imposed posed over the emojis
But yeah, so how you didn't meant us
I'm all right been better than worse
How about you how about yourself leave it pretty good
About Spotify premium today
Why I'm curious what drove the decision
I was like showing so many my music and we were listening to music and
Was telling them about how I consider I got kind of OCD on the lyrics
At some point like a few years several however many years ago a handful or less or years ago and
Making sure that the lyrics are
meet certain internal requirements in my head
Or I remove them from the playlists and because I see that as like the most
Easiest way to program your mind and I would see like lyrics showing up in my life and
Then an ad comes on, you know, I'm like, okay. Well, this is also programming my mind
So how important is this programming to me or not?
Or how important is it to you to not be programmed more to the point right like is it worth to not be
Yeah, exactly and it is more
It's a little more difficult to swallow when it's on Spotify when I've curated these
The things I'm listening to did not program me now am I gonna pay for
The second paid tier of Hulu to get to not have ads
Have to deal with ads sometimes
Because I don't want to pay all this money just to not but I guess with Spotify it's kind of like I
Like if I want to I want to leave a playlist on I want to leave a place playlist on at night
Josh what did you get kicked out or what? How dare you you can try music?
No, I didn't kick you out so you couldn't have done kicked out but what happened she totally kicked you out
Yeah, I believe I'm into I believe I believe you willed it
Hey, uh, welcome Rosemary you were mentioning some other app Jess could possibly try for music
Yeah, hey y'all. It's good to see y'all
Could have joined earlier but I was like creators got creators kind
And I wasn't able to get my phone
But anywho happy I finally got settled cuz I would have been a man if I missed this
But anywho, the app is museum you s I
You can download it on any
Device and it basically is if you pay I know you're like, okay, but it's pay one time
It's only five bucks and some change and you get unlimited access to YouTube
Through it and I know you were talking about playing playlist at night
So I love it. It was the best investment
I've made to the state because I like to watch a lot of trainings and stuff like that
SI it's on orange looking logo and when you download it, you can use it for free, but
If you go ahead and upgrade
You won't see any on-screen ads, but you'll play straight through
But you won't see any you know, I'm saying like their ads don't necessarily interrupt the plane
It would just be kind of like if you was looking at your screen
And you wanted to change the song you have to wait until whatever visual they were showing
But if you want to just walk away from it, you can play it. So yeah, it's definitely a cheap app
Cool thanks for the info. It's good to have options and
Looking it up right now in the
Do you have a enjoy or iPhone?
Perfect, let me grab the link for you and I'll be in it. Yeah, perfect. I guess that's a new response
Yeah, so this is a chill space you guys can come up and talk don't be afraid
Music is so important, you know
Like I wasn't listening to like I get into these times. I'm not listening to it. I
And I've heard other people say this too. It is it is a bit like
Sometimes I think when I when I start not listening to it, I'm like don't want to feel things
Yes, you just zone out. It's like
One of the best mood changers and to me like music can like literally take you to a whole nother
Vibe so I definitely understand that music is very important to me to address. So I get it
I think that people don't understand how much programming goes into music
I think if we you can literally
Put yourself in a whole nother vibration by listening to a certain customized playlist and
Yeah, especially you do it at certain times like early when you like rural early in the morning
If you ever get up and like say for instance, you play like some high vibe music
You can't tell me you're not going to be lit the rest the rest of the morning just because it sets a tone
Especially when you got like maybe a big test or something that you got to take or some big whatever
Talking to a major client
You can pump yourself up with music
Definitely agree with that and
I notice I'm better in meetings and better, you know with people when I've listened to music before
More creative if I'm with myself
But I don't have to turn the music off if I'm with myself so
Hi guys, sorry, I just joined what's the agenda of
The conversation today, is it just AGI or we can talk about any
AI related thing like music and medical stuff, etc
Okay, great, thank you very much
Does anyone know any AI that
Talks to like a GP like or a doctor that can ask you questions and narrow down what sort of condition do you have?
And I'm not sure if there's one
asking for some friend who has gone to doctors few times and not able to
Narrow down his condition. So just trying out if there's anything
Useful for mankind out there at the moment, please. Thank you
Yeah, I'm a lot a lot of people answer as well, but my thought is just
Well, why did you say other than GPT
No, you know, you said something about a general practitioner. Okay. Yeah
Like chat GPT plus with the web request plug-in
works would work I think that would be the one I would do because
Just don't see the point of like trying to do one. That's just
I don't know, but maybe people can I don't use one that's specifically for medical and
The one I know of I don't really want to mention
Well, I don't even remember the name of it
It's made by somebody whose medical experience was yeah mostly mostly prison
This web request is a is a plug-in for GPT
How do I great work if you you did that? That's awesome. If you can
Let me know how I can install this or connect it to GPT that we also thank you. Yeah. Do you have chat GPT plus?
Yes, I do. Yeah. All right, just click this link up pinned up at top and
That's the custom GPT so you can start using it right now
Okay, awesome, I need to log into my computer for that, okay, I'll just try that oh
That's awesome. Yeah, it works on the mobile. It's a supported by the mobile app, too
So yeah, you should go click that anywhere if you have plus and it'll
Launch web is called web GPT is the custom GPT that's on
chat GPT that uses web requests and then we GPT which is my own platform is
Nearing completion and I'm actually beta testing it right now
Ooh, that could be interesting. What if we had like a space?
Or we had some people so with we GPT so if that was
We could use that we can have a space that had
Just crowdsource this diagnosis
Yeah, I mean I will be encouraging you know cuz so we do but he's gonna be kind of like the twitch TV for AI prompting so
You'll have like a streaming window where it's just shared prompt
So you like if I'm prompting which at GPT and I have visitors in my stream
They'll just be like watching me prompt
but they'll also be able to like interact with it if I give them permission to so they can send prompts to my GPT and
They can fork the conversation if they want to and continue it in their own session
And then on the other side of the screen will be like a chat box just like twitch
Twitch TV and you know eventually we'll have social audio baked in there
But in the meantime, you just watch a Twitter space put up your we GPT link in the nest
people will be able to click it and then
stay in their audio session, but also like watch the
Joint prompting session happening. So it should be pretty damn dope
You could have a doctor that buys we GPT right and then
Well, yeah, the idea here would be any creator but certainly a doctor or practitioner could you know, you could create like public
Sessions you could very public seminars
You could if you're you know, certainly not outside of doctoring
But like if you're a game dub you could like host a game jam where your entire community is participating and this gets real interesting because
well, I don't want to get too far down into what we're doing, but you know the the audience the spectators of twitch only
Give so much input, but in this case
The audience can be your reinforcement learning layer
For what they're watching, right? So help to train the model
Yes, for sure we're gonna we we we have a billion dollar company for sure I
So a thief is it a thief as if I'm bad with names pronouncing them
Yeah, both are okay. I've been called many things in the past. That's all I say if it's good. Yes. Thank you
I said, okay. See my second one is always good with names, but usually my
My first instinct is right usually but not with names
No, that's okay. I see if he's fine
Yes, that's how I explain people on the phone what my name is when they can't write it down
So, what do you think about that
Yeah, this is awesome, this is great
How does it word does it does it go
Does it go on the web and
Looks for the information and then narrow down the answer or it just it has learned everything
This is what we believe is that instead of having this like moat that is walled off around your enterprise data
That you like fine-tune a model around your own personal moat whatever that moat data moat may be
We believe that it's much better to keep the
Supplemental knowledge that layers on top of a fine-tuned model which lays on top of a foundational pre trained model
Should stay within the boundaries of a simple retrieval
Embedding space so like if you think about the stack
Of an AI model the base layer is that like large language model that takes you know months to train and millions of dollars
That's your large language model a pre-trained transformer
Model and then you have layered on top of that a fine-tuned model, which is let's say your assistant model your chatbot
And then layered on top of that
Is your context space of a conversation and within that context space of a conversation is?
One hundred twenty eight thousand characters worth of memory you think of that as your RAM
So running within that RAM is your highest order operating and highest weighting
Relevancy in terms of like your hyper parameters for what?
How you need to supplement the knowledge of your model?
And if you get then give your model all of the tools it needs to go and retrieve the knowledge that it wants
Via either API calls so you can give it access to your entire internal API data set
For your business or the worldwide web it can just browse the web just like you or I will it has the tools to just make a search
follow results follow links download PDFs access get hubs all nine yards, and if you just give it that access then it can supplement its
highest order knowledge space contact space with the
requisite information it needs to create a hallucination free generated response
So you don't need to spend time pre-training it you don't need to have fine-tuned models
Discustom data sets all of that can have let the retrieval stage
That's amazing has also I understood maybe half of what you said I'm not I'm not
From the computer science background and I'm learning
When Python 3.12, it's a version of Python, you know Python is surely
Yeah, Python's latest version came out 3.12 came out in October
The models haven't been trained since like April of 2023
So October of 2023 it had no knowledge about this latest software update and software updates happen on a weekly basis
You can't retrain a whole model every time there's a new software update for a single piece of software coding language
With web requests, you don't need to retrain your model
You simply say hey go find the latest Python 3.12 documentation and make sure you understand all of the new
specifications around how to work with the new type methods or then how did it work with a new f-string
It will go in ingest the documentation of just this new release and now it knows how to
Knows because it knows how to program of Python fundamentally it augments its ability to code in Python
With the latest standards of the latest documentation specification and it will accurately code you now to 3.12 spec without having to retrain
That's awesome, that's really really amazing
Does that also mean that people who are learning to program are gonna go out of business soon?
Yes, but I actually had a thrown on this early the day
I find up in it, but it doesn't mean that it's not worth learning how to code
That the act of the process of learning how to code is what will arm you with a lot of skills
That are gonna really serve you well in your life and in business
And in your journey to prompt and to be a better prompt engineer
But if you're not really passionate about coding you can you can kind of
Check off your list the idea of making a career out of coding anymore because you know if again if you're an exceptional coder
There will still be coding jobs for a long time for sure
But the pool of available opportunities is going to be ever diminishing and the the demand and the competition for those great
Remaining jobs there's gonna be ever fiercer. So if you're not prepared to become the fiercest competitor in the coding space
Then you shouldn't anticipate there being a wealth of opportunity for your average coder anymore, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't learn to code
Just don't bank your career on it
Yep, that is very very cold and in place I think thank you Josh
If I may just chime in on this topic, I think that we
programming definitely take seriously is for some knowledge base
More demand for building AI models, which will require you to understand
Coding and programming and also
There are going to be roles with training models that are not going to be as
surface level because you can
you know, if you want to look at it like a
Front end training would be like
Find tuning from that but then you have the back part that will require
you know more complex someone who
knows programming to actually
creating a successful model, so
We have seen a lot of advancements in the past 12 months
That I don't think we've seen a long time as for the speed
Even when computers like really hit the fan. It wasn't that fast of a wind
Opportunities and things of that nature like every day you wake up. It's a new fastening AI tour companies
we're in the midst of someone right now who is on his verge of
And seeing more success with his new venture, you know due to this AI wave, so I think that
Though we are looking at a lot of
New shifts in the job market. I think having a strong knowledge base and programming
It's kind of like going to be like new fundamentals
for anyone entering a career in tech because
You know the foundations of I know most language models are built out of pipeline
So I think at minimum it is absolutely worth
The knowledge of coding because I feel like that is going to be like the new
Then this is just my opinion the new minimum criteria of
The job market if that makes sense, right? So like what we see
programming like what I feel is and then I'm gonna land my plane because I just feel that
What we like programming right now could probably look like a big job in the eyes of someone in
Tech right now, you know programmers are the big deal software engineers. That's not something that people just take lightly, right?
Being and having the knowledge of engineering it may now become based though
But that doesn't mean that programmers won't move up into these new
Opportunities that's going to be created due to the advancement because what they already know
Whatever new positions are going to be opened up with the new titles and whatever the new thing is going to be
However, comma the newer people that are just not embarking into this arena
What they know to be successful? So that was just my whole point
No, Rosemary, that's very great. Um, what I would say what I would just
Caveat here is the I think it will help to make the important distinction between coding like programming and software engineering
So computer science versus a software engineering degree. I went to school for software engineering degree
if you think of it in terms of like
construction and architecture the software engineer is the architect and the
Computer scientist the programmer is the builder is the person with the hard hats on the site
Like breaking ground and laying foundation
Knows all of the components and knows what the jobs are that they need to that they're going to hire and staff and contract out
But they have a much more comprehensive view of the overall structure vision and project plan
Then let's say a cement layer right or a brick layer
So it's going to be over the next three years
Three years, which is less time than it takes to really become an expert at programming for your degree in the next three years
There will be almost zero need for brick layers of computer programming anymore. Meaning
AI is gonna get so good at coding and
there will be checker a eyes that spent that are fine-tuned specialized at checking the code and
Fixing the code that between the two specialized models generating code and then fixing code
There will be autonomous routines set up. I've already created like that, you know
I see if if you look at my if you look at web GPT if I pin post on my profile
You'll see it automatically codes you a game already with my plug-in and that's what I've innovated today
Six months ago is really when that features launched. So
The next I mean, I'm on the bleeding edge of this I promise you I
Will solve this problem and it's going to be within three years and it will be flawless
It will code perfectly. It'll code better and more reliably and faster than you or I
The nuts and bolts of the coding. It'll be every language and it will be extremely capable
But these the architect stuff this being a software engineer holding the overall vision
Being the one defining what needs to be built
still important and again, like so as you as you learn the code you want to start to think about how you're going to specialize and
in a higher more architectural level
Instead of focusing on the nitty-gritty details of how to write a selection sort or a bubble sort or an insertion sort
Or the you know, the Monte Carlo
You know method and all these technical terms like all of that is just going to be on autopilot for you
Within the next three years meant us
The other the other term I want to throw out there, which I think even blurs things a little more
But I'll use it to help illustrate and draw the line is developer as opposed to coder or programmer
Right and and it's often used to mean someone who does the coding or programming
But I do solution development and that's basically an architect as you're describing
Right, so it's it's really easy to conflate the two
And I think you're illustrating a really good point that we need to clarify the difference between
Writing the code and understanding what we're plugging together and how we can create functional solutions
yeah, and this brings up another point that
do don't look to what organizations have done because
HR is a fucked area that also needs to be innovated in
If you see somebody called a software engineer, that doesn't necessarily mean that they're not
You know their actual job isn't sort of a low-level programmer so I
Mean and companies that have
That are bloated or scaled up
a lot will have solution architect and
Information architect software like and
But yeah, so I guess it's just like less about the title and more about like what are you doing?
Yeah, even though even though level even with a low-level computer architects
Like people are people arguing with me all the time like we'll still be need for like assembly level code kernel programmers things
Bullshit I can code kernel code right now. It can write in assembly. No problem
and you know it can program like
Directly to chips on like Arduino boards already. So it's like you can program different write direct
Code direct to your your CPU if it needed to
At a sit at it like an architecture level like that. There will be millions of lines of code in some cases that but like
Models that can traverse millions of lines of code to do it to debug will be able to process that
infinitely faster than any human ever could and you know, these context windows are just gonna get bigger and
The token cost for inferencing is just gonna get cheaper and cheaper and cheaper
It's gonna be all about training and fine-tuning and optimizing your models. The inferencing is already really cheap
so what like once we have these models perfected you just deploy them into the world and you have
infinite utilization of very cheap resources to just crunch crunch crunch crunch crunch crunch and if you're a big enterprise
You can put your own servers for inferencing
I can just spin up your own server who repurpose your own local data centers to do inferencing and now your your enterprise can
Have unlimited as much power as they run through their servers their data center
They can run as much in prison inferencing as they want over and over again and not be nickeled and dived by these centralized models for every
Token that they go through so like you'll be able to run inferencing across your entire code base like
Within years like within two three years. It's not gonna be it's not that far off before you could do your entire code base this way
Know what you don't do a lot of organization architects
Yeah, like like like if you would you would not be able to like for many years
You will not be able to just tell the AI build me
Google and it just starts from zero and build you all the code for Google Docs and drop
You know, I mean, it's not gonna be able to do that
But it's not what and needs to be either because you just will be able to build individual components of it
Build me a collaborative doc editing engine and that will be able to be basically
It could recreate Google Docs and then you'll ask you'll prompt it to build in, you know font formatting support and you know
this and that and URL linking and you know templates and
Headers and graphics support and table support and embedding of widgets for Excel and like it'll incrementally be able to build you all of those
Things and eventually you'll have a code base the size of Google
But like if you then on the other side of it if you have a code base the size of Google you'll be able to run
these like sifts through your entire code base think of it like
You know just like this like a scanning
Bot that just runs through your whole code base looking for these bugs looking for correlations and indexing and
Areas of the code base as per whatever assignments it's given and it'll be able to traverse edit and upgrade and maintain
Massive code bases as well. That would be a completely separate type of agent
But between the two it's like all of the low-level coding jobs are done
And like mentis is saying it's gonna be a Jess is saying it's gonna be much more about being a solutions architect
It's gonna be much more about designing like a complicated
nascent system of interactions between a data set and a
Customer and a service and just connecting it in efficient unique nascent new ways that add value
Yeah, exactly and I guess when I said organization architect I didn't mean like enterprise architect
So I just have a frustration with
And I was trying to clarify that like
You know Rosemary if somebody comes to you and it's like I'm a software engineer like that doesn't necessarily mean that they're not
The definition their job is not the definition of a computer scientist programmer that Josh had mentioned
You know, and it must be the architectural type one. It's definitely
you have to inquire further
The enterprise architects are oftentimes the
C-suite and they're not really good at it
side thing of their job and they take it like oh I just get to you know, I just get to
Decide I mean, I kind of want to I need a
Something, you know, like I need a computer evangelist. I need a data
But yeah, it's a frustration that I have because there is a role called enterprise architect, but you never see them because
The economy goes and you have to meta like you have to like cut many many many layers out because
Zuckerberg isn't an enterprise architect, you know or whatever so I
Mean and I also want to add that
Creative problem-solving I believe will is
Creative problem-solver, I don't know could that be a new role?
See see I'm doing it. I'm doing it. That's what I call it
2000 I was working for gap at their corporate headquarters in San Francisco and
It was kind of like an internal consulting team. My title was solution development specialist
Old Navy comm is launching and we want people to upload pictures of their family at a picnic
But we also want them to be able to mail in pictures of their family at the picnic and once a week
We'll choose a picture and feature it on the website. So we need a process for like
Digitizing the ones that are mailed in in some way to triage them all and vote like they needed this whole
They were just like we just want this feature go fuck and figure out how to do it
You know, and that's kind of what you're talking about right just solution development
Yeah, exactly, I mean and it's like
Yeah, and creative problem-solving but it's definitely an architect type of thinking
Well, I don't know it I don't know sometimes
See I'm an architect type thinker so I
Don't like there are what I call functional type thinkers and communicators that like to talk about steps and
process, you know and like
Tasks, I like to talk about sort of the big picture the
entities and the relationships between them
Yeah, I actually asked GPT a question that kind of relates to this and I just want to mention that
It was on the topic of AGI and I said
For cue star explain it simply to me in a few different styles for architectural thinkers for functional thinkers for abstract thinkers
and any other style of thinking and communication you think would be helpful and
So it did for architectural thinkers for functional thinkers
Abstract and then it did emotional and empathetic thinkers
So that was its create its little creative
Add-on, you know, but I don't know if it's if it's drawing enough connections
To be what I would call a creative problem-solver, it's a problem-solver it's problem-solver on steroids
But it oftentimes needs like a creative or insightful push in some direction
I don't know. I don't I'm not
Wowed by it emotional empathetic thinkers
Feel like it is trying to think
Maybe it's picked up on that. I would like that that is up my alley after all
Just not wowing me to the point that I think a human could a really great creative problem-solving human could um, okay
I guess I was waiting for the opportunity to segue
That I mean into what do you think I don't um, well, I mean we're
It's a very uncomfortable topic kind of elephant in the room kind of thing but
We really don't need software engineers
We already have a vehicle that does the dirty work for that, you know, and so maybe we need
You know software engineers in the context that
They can direct a project, you know sigma six, you know software lifecycle
You know things like that but you know
It's the end it's kind of the end of
in the programmers, you know, I
Just don't think that's gonna be a thing as much as it once was
These vehicles like, you know mid-journey chat GPT, you know the future of grok, you know, it's just pretty
What a machine could do for?
1800s to replace, you know door hinge making or
Machine drilling, you know, they used to have to create a
Person to do the machine holes, right? So and now they have manufacturing machines
They can do that that same sort of process. So now now, you know to to parallel with that
We have you know, we have chat GPT
We have many other and you know, it's ad infinitum from here on out
These are the beginning surfaces of it as as Josh has mentioned many times
You know, this is the beginning of the prompts and
Prompting is going to be probably a hashtag in the future and
the variation on different directive models of
Algorithmic data sets is going to be our weapon and in a tool for
You know and we never envisioned it this way. It just came to be
Universities would be up in Adam with selling data science programs and stem field programs and
software engineering courses
They're looking kind of like a joke now like many many many of those courses
because they they expected it to go differently, but the the simplicity of it is that
You can input a prompt and have an AI
Hyper-computational program write the code for you and do the job in less than half an hour
You know and and solve all the bugs and do it very
proficiently more than proficient
So we didn't we didn't expect AI to be
Available for use as a vehicle until now
So it's just gonna be exponential from here on out, you know, sky's the limit
And it's unfortunate for the software engineers, you know ultimately
Josh and I could figure out a code a
Very specific letterhead and we could create the most encrypted thing
Utilizing chat GPT or rock
You know like in maybe 30 30 minutes
Multiply itself or the code
At an exponential rate where it could never be broken on the blockchain
Hey, luscious what AI can do
Speaking of elephant at the room
Some DMs you sent me you care to explain
Why you're talking to me like you're my buddy
When you send the M like this
Why are you trying to cause drama
I'm not me cause drama. I don't think you're my buddy me cause drama. What are you doing right now?
I'm talking about Chad GPT. I was talking about software engineering, you know, Josh. It's amazing
I I encounter this to people feel like there are no
Repercussions of their actions and they can just move on and like ignore it and that they can come into a public space and just
Behave as if they don't have a history right and expect and expect that. I'm not just gonna call you out on your bullshit
Yeah, no, by the way, by the way, this is
About this is in reference to them
Trying to hack and steal my IP by the way meant this and then gaslight me into thinking that they're all my buds, right?
I never I never did I never did that
Right, you're just part of you're just friends with the people that did right now
in that message to Josh I
Don't I don't have the ability to do I don't
Okay, okay, this is really unfair it's like a mom yeah
I guess I'm trying to understand loose just those like did Josh
Fabricate that post that he put up there or did you actually say those things to him?
Well, I have to examine the post
Or the messages it's our TMS. You just open our DM box
Okay, and in the in that sense of messages do do the people of this group
Okay, do they have the actual context in which the emotion derived behind those messages?
What would I say those them?
Because because what the reality of those messages were is that Sasha created a space?
And now now you want to rehash all that thing all of that which which I thought we were over that
I've been in other you you never over never brought it up
This is this is this is a group of people who for a year. This is unfair
It's really the group of this is a group of people for a year
We're psyopsing me trying to pretend to be my friend so that they could then sabotage me to steal my IP and like try to
Orchestrate a cyber attack against me. You're unmuting through a mute all which is again emblematic of people who know how to
Hack and manipulate the code of Twitter spaces
Which is you know a common theme around me I
Oppositional attention. I'm just I'm just being real with you. Okay here, but but with the people of this
Messages these messages are I mean, I don't know they're not okay. No context is makes them. Okay, though
You know, it doesn't make it okay, okay, it makes me emotionally charged in that
Narrative and and I was blindsided because I thought you were my friend and you you came at me with other people's messages
That that told you I'm not gonna carry this but he's just he's just gaslighting. He's just lying. He's just lying. I'm not gas
No, I'm not lying. There's I have no reason to do that. That's not my character to do that
Nobody on the faces will tell you that I'm giving you the truth, right? And so now I don't feel welcome
Just before you go if I had sent a message like that and I
Regretted it and I had acted out of emotion and I were trying to bridge the gap
I wouldn't ignore it and move on I would own it and
Apologize and try and bridge the gap and rectify the situation not just pretend that they're trying to that kind of abuse
And it is abuse even if it's written versus verbal isn't acceptable and you can't just you know
Okay, I'll stop talking cuz you're just interrupting me, okay
No, no, no, it's not it's not that it's it's only that you don't have the and you can't not extrapolate the entire
Subject matter from that that that that that one time
This is and this is you'll make this you'll make this full space about this you'll continue this for hours
You've done this before I've seen you do this before other spaces. I did not bring this up
I didn't know you didn't set but there's there's one there's one
There's one thing you can do to rectify it and you're not doing that one thing
Well, you can't rectify you're not gonna apologize and make that go away. And what did I do?
What what why did I send that message? Please explain?
This is how you're asking me to get inside of your head
You're well, you're trying to project the image or so. It seems like that. I'm that I I'm a
Cowardess person who wants to hide behind DMS and that's not the case of that
I didn't say any of that when when when what will are you not are you not?
Honorable enough to bring up the subject matter between me and Sasha with that you're bringing this up and rehashing it all over again
There's another layer to this that it's not something we're gonna talk about in public spaces
So, I don't know if you're I don't know if you're part of that the hacking but I just can't
Can we but can we get a I mean, you know you you from this point
Well, you're choosing you you will choose Sasha, you know and I
Yeah, such as a bad person. He's a he's a criminal he's he engages in criminal activities
And so do the rest of those people that that that is in reference to that that incident is in reference to
What are you talking about I
Think it would just be good for you to go lucius. I'm sorry. Yeah, I meant this left because he's in here
So we're just gonna go and remove him. You think
Yeah, it's just a waste of our time
Let's get back to the topic. Um, I did like the way you explained it Josh
So you have the the model you have the chat agent on top of the model and then you have the context space or the RAM
Is that a way to think about it? I
Roll just on paper, um, I
Can't unmute now you can't unmute yourself
Yes, they are trying to hack my phone again right now
Yes, no, it's better. Sorry. So what did you draw? I've got some security measures on
We need to remove people just like that's not
All right, well I was just I was gonna get back to the topic and I think that when you were explaining it to us as if
You had said something like
Think about it. Like you have the the LLM and then you have a chat bot
Which I changed to a chat agent on top of that
Then on top of that you have the context space or the RAM
So I drew a little thing I
Just want to verify that that's what you said. Where did you draw it? I can't see it. Is it pinned on paper?
Oh, I don't want to know. Well, let me show it to me. I can't I don't know what it looks like
Well, it's not about what it looks like. It's just what I just said. Oh that it's like it's ramp. It's just
Scratched with the pen and I'm
Okay. Sorry say it again. I was I was looking for something and I wasn't making it what you said. What'd you say?
Okay. Well when you were explaining to us if
You had said that if you think about it, you can think about it like you have the LLM
Then on top of that you have a chat bot layer
Which I changed a chat agent
So I don't like the bot word
And then on top of the chat agent layer you have the contact space layer
You could also think of as a ram. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, I think of the contact space as your random access memory
that's gonna keep increasing over time to it to certain point just like ram does and
And it's it's the thing that is most like top of mind prevalent to the
Like the problem-solving space so like on a computer you have your hard drive
That's like lower level than RAM like RAM is the most facts fastest axis. It's called random access memory for a reason
So it's like it's the most readily available
Context window for your computer and so it's the most it's like the most important
Like the shortest path to your like working inventory of whatever the computer needs
well, you think of the same thing with your context window, which is your conversation chat history of
Between you and it and an assistant model. So
Yeah, that that's your context window. That's where all the data retrieval happens when you use web requests
So if it makes a function call it goes and gets some knowledge read or net and it holds it inside of its context window
of that conversation that RAM part and again, that's um, so, you know that that can
You spin up a new conversation and it's a fresh new little instance of ram
and you can later do like regressive, uh, you know fine tuning and
At whatever pace you want
To bake that knowledge more like foundationally into the system. So that way it can persist across other
Instances as well. But like in terms of your day-to-day like
Base gpt model and your beer then like
Fine-tuned agent those don't have to change at all
Uh to be like highly capable with your supplement and knowledge retrieval model
Andre carpati that did he did that one photo of the llm os type thing or the llm cpu or something and um
And yeah, like he kind of he kind of
Captured the same idea there. Of course, like this was just a couple this like a month or two ago
So it's like we've been working with this for a while and it was kind of mind-blowing to see him
Honestly, I don't even know exactly what he's doing because he of course
He knows more like he's much deeper than this. So he's further than this for sure
So I think it's more or less. Uh, he's just a really good educator
And I think he just started to he saw an opportunity to like educate some people
Um about this direction that the industry is moving in and we just happened to have been there early, which is good
I'm sorry. I just have these dms
Remember there's an extent to which this
Artifice exists that i've been uncovering to disrupt like by any means right?
So obviously just to hack me disrupts
Uh some of my work to come in the spaces that i'm in disrupt some of that
Disrupt some of that, you know what I mean? So like you got to be
Your own faculties in this regard
I agree. I just may be at fault
I don't like doing things like this though
Well, yeah, i'm the one that pinned that up. I mean I was being uh
I was the one who was just ripping the mandate off. So I apologize. Uh, I escalated that but at the same time
It's like you just sitting there like talking
absolute garbage out of his ass pretending to like mentioning my name and stuff and it's just like
Like you're pretending that everything is normal that you're not part of this really negative toxic thing that i'm going to be taking down
Like, you know, i've I've declared i've been forced to declare basically nothing sort of a holy war against these fucking pieces of garbage
Metaphorically speaking against these like this like syndicate of really bad
And it's it's getting out of control. It's gotten out of control and it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better
If no one does something about it. So
They crossed the line, um when they came into my home tried to burn it down like
They're not going no one's getting a pass on this one
And a lot of people are going to go and go to jail
I don't think lucious is going to go to jail, but a lot of people who he associates with are going to go to jail
Yeah, yeah, we don't need to talk about it anymore i'm sorry brought it up again I just
Do you guys have a good relationship with time
Yes, and no, uh, what do you mean I guess why are you asking?
Well, I was on I was on the road trip with my dad he'd be like he was like
You can say uh managing the trip or you could call it ocd, but um
He was like we need to be on the road at this time and for reals he kept saying for reals
and for reals came to me and like not for reals because I would never do it and
I think part of it too is like he'll describe to me
Or he's always been like his communication style has been
functional like process or
Where some people refer to it as I saw this ted talk where it was like some people communicate
With why some people communicate with what?
As they're like primary, okay, so we have
Take the premise that we have. Um
There are certain people that are concerned about or when and when
I don't remember. I feel like where and when should go together but the other big one
It was just well, I mean it could be it could be
I'm sorry. I didn't shut it down. I was like
I think the material ones are why
And then where and when can go together let's say and it's not may not be accurate to the ted talk, but it's
more accurate true reality, but
My dad is like a where and when sort of dude
Where it's like and to me it can get like
Why are we even going to this stupid place anyway? Um
But he but it's good for project management because like and like it's good for you know
Well, the plan is to be where to be here at this time and it's like
I'm like i'm not even convinced that i'm going yet
You know what I mean, so i'm a why person so if the why is not there you just look like a
Your overly your ocd about this road trip and you're where and when
By the way, we're wasting hotels we're wasting like
I'm gonna leave before check out like who leaves before check out I get an extra hour
Is anybody relating to this
Sorry, I was replying to nistan about the rabbit thing
Yeah, that's another one. Look, there's a good argument to be made somebody made somebody came to me and gave me this argument where they're like
Look best case scenario every time you expose more of this like inauthentic behavior
You're just attracting more enemies that like forever hate you and just like coordinate to work against you
And that's a valid that's a valid point
Right that like all I like because because I get so little support
You know and and and and assistance from like
Countervailing forces and power and wealth that could help me fight this good fight
um, i'm just sort of like
Eating it on the chin over and over again by by like basically like
Whistleblowing against all of these bad
Like inauthentic actors that are trying to enrich themselves and gorge themselves with wealth at the expense of all of you
I think that's a fair argument that it's just like stop
Someone was like just stop doing that for now until like you have the the capacity to do that and then do that
But it's tricky because i'm kind of already like committed because of all the work I did with the blockchain stuff, right? So
Um, i'm kind of already like in this camp
That can't move, uh very far, right? So
And you know and with this constant assault it's like they kind of make like they've given me no option, you know
They're not like no one wants to
Like call it truce. No one wants to like, you know, uh
Make right by what's happened
So it's like I got to just kind of keep like my only choice is to just go through
The tempest like through the storm, you know, like
But like this rabbit AI thing is perfect example of that. Um, where it's like you guys are gonna comment on it, but it's um
You know nistan's trying to argue that like oh this guy's a known person he's a researcher people know him he's respected
It's like first of all he's just known in the ai gurus like circle
That's all this person's known for they created this device that literally just
When you watch the video, man, it's it's hilarious. They're just it's just like this device where it's like
Oh, give me some ideas for like a seven-year-old birthday party
It's like you could do an extravaganza party outdoors. You could go easter egg hunting
You could go to a movie you could go to it's like it's like what?
Like playtale is what it is. It's a device. That's just like a simple computer like an on-board computer like a pcb board
or like an arduino, uh with a screen and like a
Like a push to talk button and that's it
It's like it can do nothing it can do a fraction of what you can do through your smartphone and just native gpt
And they're selling it for 199 dollars
the whole business model is just
promotional materials into vast network of fake gurus who all get
Who all pay for 200 000 impressions
And then go to ces with and pay a pr firm 2500 for the weekend to fly out
Uh pay their hotel and per diem as well have them book meetings private, you know
Hands-on demos with cnet and all of the ours technica and tech crunch, you know in gadget and all the little firms
And then get all sorts of publicity on the real channels
So like these these freelance journalists that don't understand
This is what this strategy is give them all sorts of coverage and they give them reasonable fair
Coverage even if it's not they're not like this is the next thing since life's bread
But they just they get the eyeballs and that mixes in the algorithm with all of the artificial algorithm
And then they end up curating real sales
And it's an entire machine that's just designed by people looking to make money not make businesses or innovate products or to create real customer relationships
It's it's an entirely like white paper like defi
Crypto white paper esque grift that spilled over into ai right now
And it's and and then then the third tier of the scam is just to try to secure funding
So based off of a 40 000 sales or pre-orders or something, which is a lie, by the way
It's probably more like 4 000, but nevertheless, it's 4 000 sales. They shouldn't have 4 000 people. It is strict
And off of those inflated numbers
They're trying to close around with some venture fund that is that you know doesn't know any better either because it's really
It's really complicated to uncover this scam
I've done it because rug radar like can be reconfigured to work with twitter data like it's a blockchain
So I see all of this very clearly
You're like this dude who's a real engineer is
Has been smitten by this has been taken by it and doesn't
Understand what he's saying
but again, the case is fair the case can be made that i've
Write an expose like this. I just attract
Heat to myself, which is true, but it's it's not as though i'm i'm wrong
It's just i'm getting heat from people who obviously don't like being exposed
It's sort of a double-sided
Sword in that way, isn't it?
Everybody's just so complacent complicit
Remember when it used to be a thing that it was like collusion was a thing like
But everything's collude everybody every so many of these people are colluding
He's in with the the ex and the
so I think there's a certain level of
Acceptance that he must have
I've seen him ignore stuff avoid stuff
I don't I don't want to I don't want to I don't want to trash him by name like I don't want to get
Yeah, but yeah, but like but like let's be more specific about rabbit, right?
They just announced a partnership air quotes with perplexity AI, right? Which is perplexity is like the
Listen to all of the stuff we're working on copy it rush to market because they have crypto like
grift funding that they can just pay engineers and just rip off everything we've built and then raise the money raise around at a high valuation
And pretend to be a real company and the fact that they would partner with this this bullshit grift company tells you
That they themselves are not a ethical good company. They they they know better than this
They know exactly who they are
And i'm just trying to tell people like this is in front of your eyes playing out and you're giving them power
You're inviting them on all of your talk shows. You're inviting them on all of your podcasts
It's like and i'm not even like saying this. I know it can sound like sour grapes
I'm not even saying oh, I should be the one on there. I'm saying just not them. Don't even think about me
I'm not arguing myself into the equation. I'm just saying you're electing the wrong people. You're all falling for the scam
And it's it's like vibe three all over again
It's driving me crazy because I you know, I feel like I I failed web3 in a lot of ways too, right?
I didn't I didn't succeed in eliminating fraud with web3
Which is what I set out to do and it's like i'm watching in in many cases a lot of the same exact players
And it's working and it's driving me crazy
I think that I don't think that as a lost cause and I don't think that you
You failed web3, but I think web3
My belief is if you can change if you could change the culture
So there's three things you can change that as far as I say it you can change the culture
Economics or you can change the incentives which you could argue is part of economics, but
With web3 the culture was doomed from the start and so
And I don't know I mean so like
Having the software solution is
We have to fix the other three problems first, you know what I mean?
And with web3 you kind of have to change the you have to change the culture you have to change the
Um, do you have to change the economy? I don't know but you have to change
Both the culture and the incentives
I guess you kind of have to do that with ai too, but
Ai is all somewhat murky in
The culture is not fully defined yet
So that's what creator spaces is kind of trying to do is like change the culture
Be the culture that you should want to
How do you compete with beth jesus on fucking lex friedman?
You know, it's like exactly
And then what that causes is it's again, it's not about like the publicity or anything
Like I don't i'm not i'm not seeking any fame. That's not what I want
It's not my aspirational path it but it's more like the consequence of people like that being the ones given the platform
And amplifying their visibility the long-term consequence of that is that person then
Gets all of the predominant share of the wealth early on
Decides where they're distributing their investments which oftentimes will come in greedy places in unethical places in shortcut places
So it's just a compounding sort of systemic problem
That is that is really dangerous this time around in particular people are like this is the way silicon valley has always been for a hundred years
What's the difference? It's like well true, but this time is different because this is sort of the last
Singularity, it's the last frontier here before
the premise here is that like
this is this last transition and then things get hyperbolic and
These are not the people you want
Like the last ones behind the wheel. You know what I mean? That's not that's that's the worst people to put behind the wheel this time
Well, I remove I removed I'm just removing people
This is your space. You should run it the way that you should run it the way you want
Yeah, you have your you have your own
Battles, you got to fight
Sure, but um, I don't what do you mean? I don't the ire can quickly turn to you
Well, that's the danger of anybody who decides to be like my buddy, right?
I don't like I'm the energizer bunny, but a lot of people aren't or what happens, you know
Remember what happened to one day more names, but like there's there's a bunch of people who got
Basically broken because they couldn't handle what happens when you affiliate with me when you stand up for me, right?
I I know I'm stronger than
Some of these people I never liked to be honest, um
Yeah, it's not just I don't want to get into the game of trash people but it's uh, yeah, it's just uh,
It's it's it's emblematic of a huge
problem because it's like
Ah, man, it's kind of like you gotta fight fire with fire. You gotta uh
Or or you can't compete like, you know, like
If this if they if they go low like this then it's like you gotta
How do you how do you even talk about it? How do you combat against it, you know?
I I was in that space the other day with all the um, I don't even know if you heard it
It was someone else's space from marsha or something
And it was like let's end all the fake elon scams
And I spent like an hour and a half in that space just talking to mostly women who have been conned by fake elons
by adrian dittman accounts by like
You know people pretending to be elon and then making women fall in love with them thinking that they're his twin flame
Thinking I even recorded a little clip i'm going to post later that like just high underscore the problem this one
Woman talks about how she started defending like one of these people in the space
She started saying like oh, I think that elon is in a tough spot
And like there probably are sometimes where he has no other way to reach out except for on these like little hidden side accounts
And that's that's the narrative that they get they get talked into is that like he he needs help
But isn't too public of an eye to ask for it. So he has to ask for it from these little side
And like and then they prey on these women who look i'm not being judgmental
They they believe in this third eye. They believe in this pineal gland. They believe in this like spiritual connection
They have and I who am I to call them dumb or idiots or i'm not going to be judgmental
But the point is if they believe these things they're saying
That's what makes them targetable for predation for being preyed upon
I see these things and it's difficult for me to just let it happen and
Especially when I look at people like you on letting it happen
That one space I was in there was like
Five or six women who each got taken for ten thousand dollars or more by these fake elons
One one dm means she wanted to stay anonymous. She wanted to stay private. She didn't want to talk in the space
But she said she got taken for
And and that's just one space with like 10 people in it
That like there was like six of them like 60 percent of the space had been victimized by this
So extrapolate that out to the whole platform think about how big of a business this is that there's that many
Victims in just a single space that was running
Like that was just the people we could reach there was that high density of people affected
By this woman's first time ever hosting a space
And I think about how many tens of millions of dollars are being like taken away from victims
Just because elon is not deleting all the fake imposter accounts and he'll in in fact
He'll reply to a different he'll go in his space and talk to him instead of understanding what this is, which is
I don't know. It just yeah, I can't not do the right thing
It's a good point because you think about
I was watching this show. I think it's called
But it's a series of this lady that has been
Like looking at different scams and things it's a like a um national geographic well
She looks at different things, right? Like oh
Let's dive deep on fentanyl. Okay next episode. Let's dive deep on
You know romance scams or whatever
the pimp one there was a pimp one where she was like
struggling so hard to like get any pimp to talk to her but um
But you the point you're making josh is that
We all are you know, maybe if you went to elon were like, um, what do you think about the people that are running?
Like phone romance scams from nigeria and jamaica
And he'd be like they're yep pieces of shit, you know
He thinks it's part of the reality show
And you're just your buddy buddy with adrian dittman
You know, yeah, you know, there's no other way to put it. I mean honestly like you can you can call that it's not slider like he
Whatever he's doing is super inauthentic. I don't know what his angle is right? It's clearly some long game
He's not i haven't seen him overtly pushing any product yet
But it's like he's doing something that is super authentic in like because I know him before he had that accent
Like he's a he's good at accents
He had a whole different persona before he was adrian dittman before he pretended to be elon that all of that happened right around october
Of 2022 like right around the time where that scam started to emerge
He did it at the same time that all the all the twin flame like predators did it
And so he did it for the exact same
Like motivations and reasons there's no reason to pretend to be elon and he's clearly pretending it he's affecting that voice
Yeah, and you know it was his I was in that space it was his circle of
I just wonder I wonder if he's
So like it was like calling elon, you know some dumb space that just like changed the title changed the whole goal of the space
To be calling elon if we can't close the space until elon joins, you know, okay
It sounds like the space didn't need to happen
Like and then elon was like oh, well i'm playing diablo
Which I don't know what diablo is like, but I feel like it's
Certainly means it sounds like the devil
so I don't know what what the game's like, but
We'll just assume that it's fine and it's highly intelligent and wonderful
finally comes in and then it's like
The space is being hosted by the fake elon
Was was saying hey, can you actually join?
And or some you know, whoever and I think it was him though
So then elon comes in and it was like hosted by the fake by
And does like technical stuff, I don't know i've had that i've had that
That account do some weird things that are tech that seem technical
When they come into the spaces, but um, so it was hosted by that and then adrian dittman was in there
So like the parody elon doesn't have a good doesn't have a good elon accent. It's easy to tell but then
Look i'm, sorry. I'm, sorry. Just to get started like look at how this is derailed the space. We should move on
Uh, I don't mean to cut you off, but like it
Like just the whole energy of space is completely wrong right now
I think I think let's move on. Yeah, I think I think on the aj deep dive
I I wanted to talk I wanted to ask mentis about because mentis you were doing like these this series
I think weren't you like you're embarking on this education series, uh on discord
How has that been going because I don't think I actually ever came in and like
Talked to anybody which i'm totally still open to do by the way. I don't think that i'm not i'm not gonna
I get it you're doing like hack you do like hackathons and education course and that course right
Our our uh core value is pivot and we do a lot of things
Um, but I actually just uh, I got to go take a call. I just missed it. I've been waiting for that. So, um, yeah
Okay, well, you know we get the energy's not bad, um
it's just it's just been like
Ranting about like all these people that don't deserve the time of day, you know, honestly. Yeah, I agree. I agree
And I was making an argument that there's
Architect may either be another name for the role of creative problem solver
I don't know. It's just like so
Does it resonate like when I say that um
oftentimes what I feel like my value is is
Ways of looking at things and
That are more creative sometimes
I guess architecting the prompt and then discovering like
The relationship that we have right so if if i'm thinking about a
Engineer who's not really
An art I wouldn't call an architect
but I also wouldn't call the sort of creative problem solver that could end and
Not only build the thing but
Like okay, we'll take a take a dying industry like
I don't know within an organization. I had
I had some conversations with an engineer who's within I believe manufacturing and like it's a type of situation where it's like
They don't know what agile is, you know
Other industries that are similar, you know, um
But let's just take that for now
And and yet they want to dictate because they believe that they know the business, right?
so what this person has been doing is just like
Understanding their problem fully
And when they say I need you to solve it this way
But then delivering this wonderful solution that actually solves their problem
That they dictated some dumb solution that wasn't going to work, you know
I just wanted to touch base on your your architecture infrastructure stuff
Um, yeah, when you build uh any of that you got to look at the databases too because
These structures and josh, you probably understand this more than most people
But the database structures and your reference material is going to take a lot of memory
So this is why they use GPUs
But you're gonna have to check
Database structures are not
meant to process mathematical
What do I want to say mathematical reasoning I guess in some sense because it doesn't know
How to reference certain the relational databases is
That is going to be crucial like when I was doing my research
I actually was using like the dictionaries is something solid based
So zen when he created gp topia
His city he's got the right understanding on how the structures should work in a AI infrastructure
Going on based on that because of all his agents
That's where you're going to see a lot more
Capability is in the agents because you're going to be referencing modules or cars as we would
Been mumbling about or trucks or buses or trains or whatever you want to call them
uh, this is where you're going to do your packets or or your caching or
You know, you're going to keep your structure
Inside the gpu, right because you're going to get faster
So it just depends on how you infrastructure set up. So I just want to make that point
Yeah, man, for sure. Uh, I recommend what I use is postgres
Vector databases, um postgres works pretty well
It's pretty compatible with python and node and things like this. Um, and yeah, it does
It does vector math pretty quickly. Um, you know
not to get too thick in the weeds, but what he's referring to is like
Token like like llm's they don't generate words. They generate tokens a token is a floating point
Like number that is um, and and then what you're able to do is these algorithms do complex
Not terribly complex, but they do a bunch of layered math
Um the like the different weightings of your whatever your hyperparameters and parameters are configured so that way like
The what the it adjusts the like likely the statistical likelihood and the distribution of next likely tokens
um, which again can eventually then be converted back into representations of words or chunks of words chunks of
You know lots of characters or a certain number of characters together and um, sometimes it's more than words sometimes. Yeah, so um
And and for reasons that are still not entirely fully understood, right because this is such a complicated
You know new immersion to what I was just to give you some more context. I was using caughtlan
You know kt, um java because it's the vm
Uh, you can actually put the server in and do api calls and a whole bunch of stuff
But anyway, I was using that to convert
Sorry, I just lost my train of thought there
Um, so I was I wrote it in caughtlan so that I can convert
All the stuff that I needed to
So that I can relay it back to the api or an ai
So when I was writing it I included uh ids so that I can do id caching instead of trying to just
Uh cache so that I got reference back material and then I can take that and I can make log files
For data structure, right? So I wrote that in kt, but I was going to use the a the ai to
reread those text files again and then go back through and create a big loop
You know what I mean? So you can keep adding more data
So you can actually do a book or you know a magazine or you know certain libraries, right?
I was going to use it for cuneiform
So I can keep all the cuneiform text in there. But yeah, and then I was using uh, fla
What are you trying? What are you trying to build here with all this?
Well, i'm trying to i'm trying to build a lot of stuff. Actually, I got security stuff i'm working on i'm trying to build. Uh, uh
cuneiform and and egyptian tablets and egyptian writing so that I could put a database together and have the ai pick out all the pictures
Basically sentences just write a book on everything that's inside that whole picture. I see yeah
That's where that's where you're working with a sample site like that particular thing you're talking about
I that I suspect is worth fine tuning your own data like your own model
Yeah, that's that's going to be an enormous amount of supplemental knowledge to try to keep inside the context window
That's going to probably far exceed 128
Certainly, uh, probably a couple will exceed several hundred thousand tokens. So when you have something like that a significant amount of knowledge
That you need to supplement
Yeah, you need to you need to get it. Uh
probably into some sort of a
Fine-tuned layer, um or even based model, you know, you don't need
For that depending on the task. You don't necessarily need a
200 billion parameter large language based foundational model you could do you get away with probably a seven billion or seventy billion
You don't even need to to find you in a super enormous like large large large model. You could just do like a medium-sized model
And it'd probably get like
Even better results that way to be honest. Um, if you get your labeling your data set labeled, right? But anyway
I appreciate your input. Yeah. No. Yeah, it's uh, definitely a good venture to go down
But um, yeah just taking time because some of the stuff's just not there yet
Like I was trying to get in the video movie production, right? But just they can't get enough
Length on their videos, right or enough motion. Yeah video is gonna take a while
It's just because all that a video is is 30. It's 30 images
It's just like strung together in one second span of time. It's 30 frames a second. So
Honestly, even like even like tv is like 24 frames a second. Um, so like it's just it's just
If you can generate if you're gonna have an ai generate or edit a single image and it takes you
It takes the uh, the the model
16 seconds to generate it or eight seconds to generate a single image. Well now you need eight times 30
Um, or you know 10 10 seconds. Let's say so it's now it's 300 seconds
To generate like 30 images and then a lot more tokens 30 times or yeah 30 frames a second 30 times the tokens as well
100 second long clip clip and it's a hundred times 30 times
Uh 10, you know, it's it's out. It gets real fast
I think with af before like the flash adobe the swf
Where you got a drive? Yeah, you drop your images in and it transforms them
So that's what I was looking at. I was actually creating that in
But it requires a bunch of plugins that it has to upload and stuff
But certainly within the next two three years, um image generation manipulation and video manipulation
Is going to get to the point where we'll be able to do multi-minute long clips for relatively cheap relatively quickly
So like again, that's where you're going to get like just reasonably medium form content lengths that are just
Generated, you know on device you're going to do that, you know with a few just words you'll be able to get whatever videos you want
People will be making their own porn people will be making their own youtube videos people making their own tick talks
Just completely generated. It's going to be a crazy future
Yeah, I wanted to create some like graphic novel like remember the heavy metal like the those kind of novels, right?
But make them animated right so I could have like my dragon, you know doing this thing and
Whatever, you know, I could show it on there and it'll have like a little 10 minute, you know
Little thing it'll speak to you or whatever and then you can play the video at the bottom
You can see how it went, you know and stuff like that kind of thing
Like you think if you think systems architecture level
Enough you can kind of see where things are going to go like
basically between now and what I described
Wherever it'll be ubiquitous enough for anybody to be able to build it
It's going to be a several year run in between now and then and in between now and then it will be
Several companies disney a bunch of startups that know how to do it themselves manually
The the long way the hard way they'll raise money figure out a financial model that works distribute content distribute and license technology
And produce long videos and movies and they'll make a living off of it
In the meantime while the technology is scaling up and while the the efficiency is scaling down and
You know getting faster and smaller and more efficient and then eventually once they've you know
generated enough revenue that way they'll
Invested into being more ubiquitous and they'll spread and then the industry will pivot again
So you just kind of think of these um these moments in time and what the opportunities are then try to if you're if you're building some
Technology layer you're looking to insert into that value chain
You just need to decide what point in the life cycle are you going to be participating in the value chain?
Well, I just like anything when video games came out when tv came out when the radio came out right everybody's in a
Rush to get them right? So they'll pay any price and yeah, it's funny how it works
And then you know all of it just kind of scales down and then there's one or two guys left
You know what I mean? So yeah, sometimes it's not always be the first person in the door, right?
Yeah, it'll be a novelty when disney releases their first fully ai generated
Movie that you can like generate your own ending with if you buy the special edition
Hey buy the pre-order the edition and you can like generate your own like character inside of it
And they'll do all sorts of cool promotions and it'll be a novelty and there'll be you know
Once all these promotions are great and you'll partner a fortnite and you can have a fortnite movie and all sorts of crazy stuff, right?
And then the novelty will wear off as more and more people get access to that just natively and people be like
I could just chat with this ai agent that
Fucking web requests made and it does basically the same thing and like I and then you know people more more people will get
Access to that do it themselves
novelty wears off big bucks shift into smaller bucks that are more spread out across everybody and
Now it becomes just a staple of youtube and you'll just have like a direct editor in youtube where you can just
Instead of uploading a video you'll create a video that'll just publish on youtube, you know
There won't be uploading anymore. It'll do build
Kind of run netscape, right because it was one of the dial up ones, right? You can get the the actual
You know internet with it. So it was it was the best at the time and then now now look there is no netscape, right?
Yeah, if you want to localize your videos like something mr
Beast did was he took all of his content and he got he hired local voice actors for like the
famous marvel films to do like to do the over dubbing for his for different like
In personalities in his videos and he published them in all sorts of different languages and regions and territories and that was a you know
Brilliant, but again one day in the future. It will just be your voice
That is speaking another language and it'll all be completely AI generated
so if you want your content to be syndicated in russia and the philippines and
Portugal and you know argentina and mexico and spain and greece and
Romania it'll just you'll just check the boxes that you want it all translated to and it'll just say hey, okay
It's going to cost you. It's 695 per video or 1695 per video or 65 dollars per video
And we'll just syndicate all these languages and you'll just do that microtransaction youtube gets their money
you get your videos everywhere else you get ten times the ad revenue because you're in ten times the territories and markets and
This is clearly the the future to come so again
It's like think strategically where you want to position yourself in that when
When will be the next big wave of creators that are doing that and what's the right timing for that and can you?
sell in additional services or
Products and to build them now and just get ready for it because there's so much opportunity to add value right now
And then or you can do this grift. You can just rob people. That's what a lot of people are doing right now
Yeah, but those weeds say they stand out right I don't know burnt earth burnt earth bros new new new new plants, so
It's a lot easier to cheat that's it is it is a lot easier to cheat your way to wealth and success
But you're cheating and you have to live with cheating
Yeah, but that's not different in script kitties
They only last for so long and then you know
They're not even relevant anymore because somebody else has got more money than they have so
They're not over over long enough scale of time. Like let's think about cheating
It's got to be it has to be a short run high yield because given enough time your cheating will be exposed
You will become a pariah you will become resented
And it's that that's just that simple, right?
I mean i'll never be i'll only be i will forever be resented by people who will then be resented by everyone
So it's like you know, like i'll be resented by the bad people who i'm early to the party
Be exposing and then you know, but their time is numbered their day to their days are numbered mine are infinites
Granted it might be infinite miserable days where i'm just fighting a massive amount of bad people
Uh again, like i'm i'm on the right side of history on it. So
creator's guide to the future so
What do you um, you might have asked what do you think your position in the future is like? What are you?
Where are you trying to position yourself in all of this AI future?
No, um, like I see I see uh
Call it a gap call it a problem call it a
I don't know what to call it but but best jesus, um and
Who would you call the representative of I was joking with cult leader by the way, but um
It's something that you know
Um, no, I don't want to do that. I um, but
You know some people have okay. Well, i'm
No, there's just a lot that i'm thinking a lot of things that i'm trying to
Not get off on tangents, but then figure out what what helps explain it
you know, so I just have to do a lot of processing in my mind when I
When I explain this stuff, I don't know how other people do it, but I sprung I sprung the trap a little bit
That was I mean, I definitely put you on the spot to be fair. No, okay. Well
But um, I do see a gap with bef jesus and whoever
We think is going to take up the uh, or whoever whatever
Representative of the safety side you want to choose? Um, gary mark is or uh
Yankowski I figured out how to say his fucking name
So I see a big gap there and again
If you really want to change something if you really want to make
It can't just be the software
Um, and it's very hard to change culture once it's uh
cemented enough and I feel like we have not cemented it
So that's what creator creators get into the future is um
Oh, yeah, I was just gonna say I was working on some security stuff about blocking dns
Um stuff like that through uh some scripts that I was writing. Uh, so there's different ways
Like I said before many times that each country just segregate their
Networks just block every other country have one in and one out and just make it just slow as peak, right?
Then you won't you won't have as many issues
It's kind of like that one step forward two steps back kind of scenario that we keep playing out, you know
Wait, is this in relation to the culture thing that I was saying? I'm sorry
There's certain things that we can stop because this whole thing's a culture clash coming on here because there's so many
Like i've seen this many times before on when the internet first started
I got into ventrilo and all these chat groups and then start playing these games and there's different cultures different people from different places in the world
so it's it's sometimes it's a culture shock for a lot of individuals, but
I play on both sides of the fence in some sense
So, you know i'm on the you know
Where security lies? I I gotta go places where I don't like to go but you know
It's just there's certain things i've seen
And i've been doing this for a while, but um
The whole internet was built on hackers. A lot of them were just
People trying to learn everything, right?
We were building, you know, just whatever like they were using unix servers and adding python scripts
So we could do all these web pages and all this fun stuff. So the development behind it was all based on paid
Services that people wanted to build things but who's going to build anything?
Nobody was building anything. So the guys that were getting the money from the bad guys were actually creating good stuff
So there was good that was coming out of the bad, but you have to weigh the scales again
There's there has to be a creative environment
Problem is is a lot of people just like to copy and paste. They don't want to do the work
They don't want to do the research. They don't want to do the due diligence. So this is the problem
Uh, some of the new coders understand how long it takes to learn coding. I started at nine i'm 50 now, so
It's just it takes a lot of
Time and persistence to understand a lot of this stuff
This is why they're script kitties because they just want you know, like we don't have to say and they wanted it out real quick
Right, so we could start to slow their
Progression because a lot of them use relays or jumps for their, you know
Mysterious stuff, right? They don't they want to go through tours. So we start blocking all this stuff
The culture is going to change again
Right. So if you maybe the environment you change the culture
You don't have to change the culture. Let it just flow the way it should like water
and then when no, I disagree because
um, I disagree with that that statement because
We could argue that people let crypto culture flow and look where that
So I I do recognize your point of that. There was a lot of hacking that was done when the internet was
Being born and whatnot, but um
But I don't think that that
You know, there's there's a certain rebellious level of hacking that is
Still good. I don't know if it's called white hack or
like activist sort of hacking, you know, like
Robin Hood sort of hacking i'm fine with that but um, I don't like the uh
Yeah, the some of the people that were part of
Birthing the internet. There's this one guy
That was like exposing. There's a netflix thing on him and he was exposing like
I don't know. He was paying people
Give him dirt to then it put all over the internet
And yeah, he ended up. I think he ended up in jail
The beginnings of the internet, but that doesn't mean that that was required that was just a a thing that
Happened and creator's guide is meant to
These people that are pioneering
Better, you know, don't choose
Buy whatever you can because you made crypto that can do that like
Don't don't choose to build a shitty
System don't choose bad engineering just to build build build because you just say build and you just say build and accelerate and build and
Shut the fuck up with your and bill, you know, like
Sorry, this is a rant now
Oh to point your points taken like just build more stop fucking around stop being
stop this like drama game and just like and stop like
Trying to take all these damn shortcuts and just like being greedy and it's like just build
There's so there's so much opportunity if you just actually built instead of making a fake device
That like isn't that you just have no interest in servicing. You're just trying to get make some much money
It's like it's like or just make actual real money by doing real shit
But I get it. It's harder. It's more work and people people like shortcuts. It's sad
self-governing systems you have to you have to
Teach the people how to govern themselves properly
um, you know just saying build a non
You know, like beth jesus just says, you know build a non like uh, shut the fuck up and just build and like, um
Criminal software just build is that what that what you're saying? I mean no, so I guess
There's just not a lot of structure to it
Um, you know like are you saying to just build?
Antichrist a non I mean beth jesus. Sorry. Is that what you're saying?
but I also don't think that
We even need a beth jesus. I mean we don't need a
A figure it's not about the figure, right?
Or even the movement it's just about like being it's like we don't need more teams
It's like it's almost like eac looks to become like the political
right of like the ai identity
Uh war and then like there'll be like there'll be some other
What d cell is like the let the liberal left and it's like people are just like self-selecting into these categories again
Instead of just like taking things on an incremental instance by its basis of like
Yeah, we probably should have models that are like inclusive and diverse and no we probably shouldn't have models that like refuse to
Talk about things that are real or things that exist
And you know, we probably shouldn't be overly sensitive essentially models
But we also probably shouldn't have models that write hate speech. So it's like this is just
Basic stuff we could agree on we don't need to have
Vast categories like where you have to hit all of the boxes. It's like it's like again
It's just it's like why create more republican democrat shit
Why create more team shit where you got to adopt the whole whole goddamn sautéing platform of?
Of some idea as opposed to just being able to be pragmatic about every individual basis
Yeah, and if you use the creator's guide to the future gbt
Then you don't you don't need to come to these spaces. You don't need to go the ex spaces
You don't need to but there there may be a need for people to come to these spaces and talk about cultural
Principles values and ethics so
That would call for a need for
Possibly a figure or a set of figures that can rival bef jesus and
Gary marcus or whoever is the safety person
You know, I mean because if there's a demand for it
We can't just say it's not needed because there's a demand
Is not thinking about it. We can't just say that it's not
He's not explicitly saying we need it but he's implicitly saying
It is it is because it's on my platform
And in organizations even this is becoming
The culture within an organization. I mean it's already happening. So
Yeah, and I just wanted to touch on that because a lot of the the data collection they do
It'll change your prompts eventually because
Um, they keep accumulating more data
You know whether it's good bad false true, right?
Where is you know in chat? Uh any chat bot?
It doesn't do any refining or any, you know checking where and zen's uh city his gptopia
He's got agents that will run all these iterations and do checks and stuff and he can actually figure out some
levels on the scripts and identify things so
I think using the ai against itself is is is a good good way of uh working with
Some of these tools because i've been using sofos since 2010
And they had ai in there and they got algorithms. So what you can do is
Once you build the algorithm, you can take that algorithm and modify it and zen is a
He's specializing in his prompts and he's got a good understanding of just general language
Because i'm a coder and I understand what he's trying to do and some of the stuff
I just transform what he has into code and it works better than what I did in code
So i'm just saying there's certain people that should be looked at for you know, helping with some of this stuff because
There's individuals like those guys. They they don't dip their finger. They haven't got the experience yet
They're doing other things. They're trying to run a company
You know, there's all these different guys that are trying to hire certain people
They're all their friends and young people. They're not even hiring anybody with wisdom
Or have knowledge. They're just trying to get whoever and whatever
So it's interesting because in indian tribes, they always look to the elders, right? There's always elders
Elders always have wisdom insight. So
Sorry, sir, but this is absolute language elders do not always
But when you say things like elders always have wisdom and insight that is
Like I respect and I appreciate your experience and
Trying to disrespect that
Maybe brush it off as like oh, well we have ai now other places. I don't know but
And I don't feel like you're you're validating my points and i'm
Trying to validate your points while also saying that you don't validate my points
Valid sorry, yeah, i'm just looking outside the box, but yeah, okay. I'm sorry i'll step down here. That's all good
Yeah, so creators go to the future, um
Agent whatever you want to call it like gbt
self-governing future, um
Want to run path, you know your software or your
Idea or your content by it
That's the lens that it's going to look at
Whatever the thing is for you. So
It's a way to empower you to
Not need to look to befjesus or gary markus or even me. Um
And connected to the culture
I don't know. Um, but but yes, so
On a functional level just you can run some content by it. Will this age? Well, is this um like
Is my facial recognition software? Does it have?
minorities so that it's not going to be
confused as fuck by all the minorities, you know and
Cartoon style or some style that's not realistic
How can I build something that's not going to be just like shut down by regulators if and when
They have to come in if if everybody's just
In in a dystopian future where everybody's built
Just built with where befjesus is the guy and everybody's just built for 10 years
Like yeah, then the regulators are gonna come in finally
Finally at some point and be like, um now we have to
There's a lot of debt here. There's a lot of fucking debt, you know
Somebody else talk, please
Hey stephen, oh, hey stephen
I get angry and I don't need to get angry. I don't need to get angry, but
I do I am angry I will say at
This the the system the stupidity of the system in a way
you know that just perpetuates and
You know, there's there's a there's an element of
Yes, I have a bias that I'm that I will call out to you
Gives me some tech bro vibes. I will say
But i'm trying to look past that bias and still say that
I mean, I believe that bath jesus is a smart guy. Don't get me wrong. I think he's um
Good things that he says, right? He's got some smart things that he says but
You know lucky sort of situation where he's
He's sort of right in some sense because he does talk about self-governance, but then he doesn't coach people on
Being self-governing. He just says build
It's not all bad, but it's not
Well, I don't know. I don't know what you're trying to say
I don't I don't I mean I also say build that saying build isn't a bad thing, but he's not just saying build
He's also not like I say build but I lead by example. I build every day
I've not seen him build a single thing
Like yeah, he had a career. I guess at google right like he worked for a company
Sort of nice and then everybody's worked for a company
But like the thing that he's built he's like again. He's just it's very crypto white paper. It's like really
Esoteric like physical world quantum computing crossover of agi
But it's just like what is none of that means anything to any practitioner?
Like I don't know of anybody who I respect who looks at like that pitch and goes oh, yeah, man
That sounds dope like it's just a bunch of more dark money stuff like you know
Funds that are you know have questionable other ties and and it's just like
project plans and mission statements and vagities and it's like
Okay, just again. It's just all the wrong vibes and signals coming from what otherwise is just a very generic message of build
there's that too and then
You know, I didn't watch I probably should watch the likes freedman one, um, I
I don't mean to drop you know, gotcha. I watch the whole thing. It doesn't doesn't get any better
It's just there's a lot of it goes into a lot of topics. We've talked about for
Hours on end to a bimbo in the face
and it just doesn't talk about him quite as well and you know,
he tries to get all the sound bites in and get all the cred and clout and
And then he said some some very vague stuff about his
Mission and approach and just not and and the mission of the movement and lex doesn't hold his feet to the fire
you know, he just sort of like nods and smiles and
Well, it is frustrating that's exactly what I would guess too and it's sad and i'm i'm more upset by lex to be honest then
Because I expect more of lex
They all kind of done it like the same thing
I mean i've been on rogan, you know, like rogan's kind of really softened up too and just
everybody in elon's been like towing this line of like hyper conservatism and like hyper just like
Confrontationalism and like being just just just creating conflict and like and like not
Being very like two-faced about it like being very like one-sided and biased
While claiming you know spousing to be the one who fights against bias, you know
And I just see that a lot from like even rogan and and yeah, lex now
They're just they're very much they bring on very much the same sort of archetype of people
Don't hold the feet to the fire of all the ones that like most should be holding their feet to the fire on
And you know and then just like it's just it's very
I don't know why in this movement
It just seems like it's a coordinated concerted thing and it seems like it all happened at the same time, you know
and I don't know if that's just a
symptom of observation or if it's like if it's caused if there's some sort of like a
Force that caused that to happen, you know
Yeah, yeah, and I think well, I think I see um
Filling this need right, but he's not he's not good enough. He's not good enough
No, well, he gave george hott's more of a run for his money than then the other guy than beth like like he gave you know
Like george hott's is credentialed. He's qualified like he's you know
He's his his his resume is as long as not to lead a culture
He has good ideas about culture, but no i'm saying george hott's not not not that
No, I know i'm also agreeing that george hott's is
Technically better than beth, but yeah, he's done. He's done shit like he's done tangible shit and he has he has ideas about how to
You know and he did yeah, he already has you know, I mean that's part of his that's part of his resume in fact
But he's not he's not caring enough to
Yeah, I agree with that. He's he's a very fun. Look he's a very eccentric. He's a very eccentric guy. He's very uh,
I will write you that but uh and very annoying at times, but he's credentialed and like he you know
That's what it is. It is what it is. Like no one's perfect. Everybody has their fucking isms like god knows I do
So it's like but again, I like to think i'm credentialed. I I show up
and um, you know and that's
I just want more people like that and it's like why are why are you giving those people the the the you know?
Why are you why are you putting those people through the crucible?
And you're and you're just letting all of these other other people off with free passes, you know
So you can see it's like it's like the system's got it reversed
Yeah, I agree, I mean I think that
Have have we really given it the college try to
Hey, there's a third option
Like have or whatever you want to call
have we really given it a good enough shot because
I feel like you know, you've been running the ai spaces josh
Something other than the two, right?
And there's a demand for the two
Well, at least for eac. Um
Yeah, and it's like it's very simple at this point it's oversimplified because it's like it's not just
Uh either build or safety. It's not just like it's just build build
But beth jesus will just tell you build
I'm sorry, but there is a risk of building
I think they're just filling in their their
Their subpar dudes or it's a sub part of hard dude. That's that's meeting the demand
He's he's supplying the demand though
Part of part of what I think it is is he is
So I mean correct me if I'm wrong. This is what you're trying to say
Maybe not but but the way I feel about it is the way you're making me think about it is
By saying build that mantra
It's like it's kind of a shitty thing
It's to especially if you're if you're defining
The boundaries like if you're defining sides drawing lines in the sand you're you're saying you're on a side and implying there is a juxtaposed side
And then you invite you by saying that your mantra is build. It's like you're implying that the other side is not building
It's like you're kind of throwing shade by absence and it's like yeah
But see the other side is building too
We're just disagreeing on like what the important priorities are around safety about as you build
so it's like but it's almost like they're deliberately taking this like shitty sort of like like like
you know bitchy little like
Clever tactic, it's like it's a tactic
It's just like a manipulation tactic where they're picking. Oh, but they're picking build as their mantra again
To suggest that the other side isn't building
And it's like that's that by even just doing that taking that first shot across the bow
Is like real kind of shitty. It is indicative that you're like this instigator like you're you know what I mean?
Like that's not what like well decorum people do
Um, you know implied at the other side. That's what that's what?
That's cult. It's cult leader
Like it's like the rest of the world's out to get to the rest of the world's the enemy
We're the good guys. We're the build guys. The other ones are not build guys
It's like no, but that's not even at all and even like frame
so I guess it's just like that by I'm choosing to frame the
The playing field like that is insincere to me
And yeah, so that that's like the way that that if I were to sum it up at all that would be like the
The problem I have with it
Yeah, there are they're making it like
I just don't know that you're you're the other side quote unquote. I mean I agree with every
I don't think you're the other side. The other side is like the the board the a open AI board
You asked me if I did enough you asked me if I divide if I gave it the college try
I would flip the question to the room
I'd flip the question to someone like Stephen or or Andy or mentis. Like do you think that I did gave the college try? I I don't
Think i'm qualified to say. Um, I don't
Clearly I didn't I haven't succeeded
So i'm not gonna say that I
Well, we just have Stephen we just have
But I have said the whole time i'm not the guy like that's not who i'm trying to be i'm just
Well, I can I can be the person I will do that if you would like
the argument that i'm making is
Well, and I don't even want to it's not about me being the person so much as it's just about
Third option, I guess i'll call it. Um
And it's not even going to be like oh you have to be you have to choose between
and this or you have to choose between safety and this
The culture. I mean that it is pretty
Like my motive is good and that's why I created this gpt. I mean
The goal for me is not to
Be the figurehead I guess but it's just to ultimately to get the um
the message across and have
third option and it it's like
It seems to me that it's um
Or the way it's been positioned as well
is like, um, for example in an organization you would have the
Well, maybe in a more traditional organization organization you would have the
Uh development it used to be very
very divided in that you have the development and then you have the governance and the governance could even be the business, you know what I mean
so the way they positioned it with like the open ei drama is like
Uh sam alman was just trying to build
Don't you know like he was just building
The bad guys in the board were trying to shut down his building. We're trying to govern
How dare you govern sam alman our builder?
Martin skelly said if you come after the king don't miss and then they were all like go off king go off king
Because they they looked at it as like you have the builders you have the development people
So development is accelerate and governance is safety, right?
with self-governing teams
You would have builders that are
That have some sort of guiding principles and values
I feel like the space could be rugged
Well stephen it's just me and you
Yeah, what do you think of all this you've been listening a lot do you
Yeah, I mean there's any number of places I could uh, you know hone in I I don't
Understand what the the thorn is that's um
That's in your side what's weighing so heavily on you about
Building with a sense of ethics
Once you're you know, once you're incorporated once you have a board
a sociopathic entity that exists without
To be taken into account so I there's you know, there there's a deviation from
Whatever good guy might exist the moment they
These companies incorporate or shift cultures
Any entity takes on an investor
Their their obligation is not to be
Mild-mannered polite citizens their
Their obligation is to appease the the investors
That its finest is sociopathic
And probably the the most sociopathic business model that we could refer to right now would be the pharmaceutical industry
And we could say well, they they've got the food source
They've pretty much genetically engineered every phytochemical out of our food supply
That might prevent us from getting sick and on the back end
They're prepared to sell us
Those same phytochemicals in the form of a pill to give us back
What we're missing from our food source
I I want to call it socioeconomic. Uh lifestyle it really
To talk about it it it ranks right up there with
You know any any conspiracy theory out there, but the you know, when you think that
The same people that sell us roundup also sell us bear aspirins
It's not so hard when you lay out the products
That some companies have and you say well, you know
They've got the food source
They're selling us the disease they're allowing the disease to exist and then they're offering to
Medicate the disease. So there's
They're profitable at every single turn
And they've been tweaking it long enough that
You know customer is the customer for life once they're
In the machine that you can put a you can put a stamp
If they live till 40, they'll be worth this much the company if they live till
50 they'll be worth this much of the company if they live till 60
They'll be worth this much to the company
There's no good guy no personality no
Uh and most importantly there is no consolation prize either along the way
It's like, you know, josh isn't gonna get
Any kind of cash stipend from
The good guy network for putting forth a grand effort
And undo, uh, you know the the evildoers upon us. There's no there's no reward. It's either
Somebody comes in funds. This thing runs with it builds upon it
And makes it a viable option to traders
You know across the globe and it's represented there represents itself as a billion dollar company, which I think should be
So it's not he's not going to get a little bit pregnant and you know, the company's like amazon
Business people like elon, uh more importantly, um
People like the the the roth child
You can't even find their net worth
You know, there's it's just not it's not there and I the
Me just being me I figured there they're the family
Fortune is it's got to be close to nine trillion
On par with blackrock blackrock and vanguard. Uh, actually, I think they they I think they're up to 12
For one family to appear to have
The control over roughly nine trillion dollars is a lot figure
You buy everything on earth once for I think it's seven trillion
You know one of everything on earth for seven trillion dollars
And you've got a family that uh
And then here here's uh, uh kind of a cool fact on the you know, strange bedfellows
We know all know the the number one investor in twitter. Do you know who the number two is?
Yeah, that tracks with like some pictures
I've seen of elon talking to the Saudis and
Yep, there's I I mean there's a handful of other strange bedfellows that uh
Allegedly have some skin in this game that
when you stop to think about the
Israeli palestinian conflict the ebb and flow of what information is moving where?
Well, there's a pretty solid fiduciary
Interest that might have another
Business that they're running
Uh, yeah, maybe in the arms business maybe in
It could be oil could be arms could be a land grab could be any number of things
You know, so you've got the number two investor. They just say hypothetically
Putting pressure on the number one investor to
You know, let's hear a little more maybe from the the palestinians. Maybe but let's hear a little more from these rallies whichever side
Incentivizes his agenda or the family's agenda
Considered because of the median income not because of cash holdings, but they're considered the wealthiest nation on earth
And that's simply based on the fact that the median income is somewhere around 140 thousand dollars
I don't know. I I met the queen of katar
And I also had the tremendous good fortune of meeting the uh,
secret service representative that was
So I was uh working at a server simole eight down in orlando queen of katar sitting in the back of the room
And uh, I walk into the room and sitting at the one of these corner tables
Are these just average kind of sort of looking schlubby guys
Packed in they're kind of tight
And the one as I walk in spins around in the chair
So his his quads were about the size of my my waist
And mind you I wouldn't have noticed and about this time he leans forward in the chair
And I realized okay, so all of these guys are jacked
The reason he spun around in his chair is because a man entered
the room with the queen and
Under no circumstances is she allowed to touch
a man male flesh nor can they touch her so the uh
Some uh, some smarty pants is going to go in there and try to touch the queen
So this guy seeing me come into the room spun around
And was just ready to pounce if i'd made any advancements in her direction not that well, that's uh
Uh, that that's about one of the the most bizarre would I have been a little more afraid
Have I realized what I was walking into kind of thing
And her her handler is a man
gentle charming charming beyond belief
Uh, and he was the tension breaker that the queen travels with
For circumstances just like this and he just yeah, he kept the spirit live lively
You've got that eight secret service guys that are jacked and pumped and ready to pounce
sitting in the corner of a room and
You know and this this patient witty
The world a nice place for all of us and just letting the queen
pass through she's coming to visit disney world
Coming out for a nice dinner
And you know and has this secret service brigade that's following her
uh and trying to be as uh
Now he is saying that it's a lot of uh, it's a lot of influence for you know
Such small country coming to america queen coming
Queen elizabeth. Well, that's not going either. There are
More influential people that have come here that have had less
The united states government in other words a a room full of secret service guys is not
Uh typical for a queen for a king for a president of another country
The way this was set up was
Thick it was just unbelievable
Um, which made me realize. Okay, so the queen of qatar is actually
a far more influential person
What that means I still don't know but I I do know that
Is the tail that will wag the iranian dog?
Somehow the the saudi royal family as well, and i'm not sure of
What the posture is there?
Um except to say it might be
The business people there who their legislators that help broker the deals for the saudis with the americans
Um, and they're some of the deals that exist like we we all know, uh, you know, um a lot
What you you may not know is that
When the americans found oil there
And they had to you know, they were sending
Americans overseas britts
Etc. They had to build accommodations for
Well, guess who they contracted with to build
Everything to build a city for people coming in for the oil rush. Well, it was osamah bin lad's father
The guy that scored the contract to accommodate all incoming tourists
Through the 70s 80s and 90s
Osamah, osamah bin lad's father
He's the developer that handled every incoming contract
So now we we see okay, so the friend
To the united states gave birth to
Pretty much never hear about uh, that relationship how you know how
America was into the bin lad and family. Um, they've ridiculous amount of money
So, yeah, you know, we never hear about that, but you think all right. Well
You live and you learn, you know, what are you gonna do?
So i'm i'm saying all this to say that
You're talking about nice guys building businesses ethical practices in development
But there's always something else going on
That's going to be two or three
Concentric circles it's going to be two or three degrees away from what you can see
Is a great reason to have a coach
Someone that could see the big picture
Um, you know and you can think about uh time and war people say well
You know, they like their generals to lead the charge they like uh
They're the leaders to lead into battle my thinking about this is
I'm firing away i'm desperate, you know, and i'm waiting for sarge to call
On the radio to let us know, you know where the chopper's landing at what we're going to do it
But I look over in the trench
And I say wait that is sarge is right next to me
Is in the same pit of despair i'm in
Okay, all of a sudden i'm in a pretty crappy position
The guy I needed to have the larger grander overview
Is standing right beside me
Reactically strategically, it's a piss poor move
You need the more knowledgeable person with authority
With the best seat in the house he's got to have the best view
To make the calls. They've got to be able to see the big picture and unfortunately when they're forced down into the trenches
They lose that sight and yes, it's good for
Uh, somebody to know the operation
It's not good for a leader to get caught up in the operation
You want to essentially you want a leader with a lot of knowledge
That that doesn't necessarily
Get too involved doesn't micromanage as long as things are running smooth
He lets things run smooth
And if things are always running smooth and it looks like your leadership isn't doing anything
That's probably a brilliant leader
even a great scrum master that that's
Handling the adversity that's ahead of you before you ever even know it's coming
And you never know it's coming and things are smooth
Because they knocked that out of the way and you never saw that either
I I believe in that as a business protocol
Yeah, I think you're gonna see I think I I agree with that. Um
I'm just gonna pick up on the thread that you
of that of like, you don't see anything because
I believe that you see certain things because i've had scrum masters where i've dealt with scrum masters where
They were actually not doing anything
People on the team were doing a lot to make sure their relationships were good, right?
You have to look at the scrum meetings then and be like, um
Calling on people during the retrospective are they like thinking of ways to help people relate and what whatnot like that so
I agree with what you're saying and then I don't think that
I think when things are working well
and you can see some signs of
A leader creating the right environment for things to work. Well
For example, this creator's guide to the future gpt, right?
so i'm not going to be somebody who's going to micromanage and be like
get in here and talk to you about the details of things but I
I prefer to have a framework to have an architecture
Allow me to not have to do that, you know
But what what you're saying is like there's no sign
and I don't I don't quite agree with that because i've i've i've had
situations like that where
I've had situations where
I understand what you're where you're coming from but i've had other situations where
The person just wasn't the scrum master just wasn't actually doing anything
Is this well, yeah, I mean all of scrum and a good bit of agile comes down to
and aside from that I mean
If to simplify and compartmentalize it comes out to
What did you accomplish yesterday?
What will you accomplish today?
And what do you perceive is in your way?
And that's scrum in a nutshell now the scrum master
In the meeting you're going to have the recap number one. That's empowering number two
It brings the project up to date and kind of gauges, you know your your time commitments
Want to know what the people aspire to for that day and typically in front of the group people are making a verbal commitment
Differentiate themselves or distinguish themselves from
Well a good one from that one
In the question what do you perceive is in your way
Scrum master the uh, the project manager is going to listen and say all right
So now if I let them handle this themselves, is it going to take away?
their focus from their project
Dive in on this and I take care of this for them. Keep them equipped. Keep them moving
Is the time that they're going to be spending on the project moving it forward?
You know you get 10 people on the team so he's going to have to do this 10 times and he's going to have to
make some decisions and we're just talking about one day's worth of adversity that
Scrum master's got to tackle. He's got to find the solution
Uh and give a directive now if he's a good scrum master he or she
He they'll probably be able to facilitate solutions that uh,
You know make whatever the encroaching
You know, whatever it is that people say are gonna is going to get in the way
They'll probably keep it from getting in the way and that's the that's the ultimate goal of the the
scrum master on a day-to-day basis
Minimize anything that slows down production, you know development
the process of the the project
I totally lost my training training thought I saw sorry about that
So as scrum since we're talking about this has
From an architectural standpoint has uh three pillars
I'm fully trained in this
I don't think about these details on a daily basis, but I do remember transparency. Um
I'm looking it up right now, but
Inspection and adaptation, um
And then it also has values respect commitment
Encourage focus okay commitment focus openness respect encourage. Okay, so
To say that it comes down to the three questions. I I don't
Quite vibe with that to me. It comes down to the pillars and it comes down to the values. So
Call that an opinion or what you will but um
Well, you there's also a semantics at play that uh
It might cause a separation between us
They're along the same lines. Those three questions are
The scrum master's duties what you're speaking to are are values concepts culture
Uh, i'm just talking about practical application execution
So a bit different than the the core pillars
The core pillars are still going to be there
And yeah, and everybody but everybody that's the thing everybody wants to talk about
the practical application
recognize the practical application as being a
Type a communication style if you if you were listening at all to what I was saying earlier about communication styles and
I actually talked to gbt about this earlier about like let's
You know help me explain agi
To an architectural thinker help me explain it to a functional thinker
So you're coming at this from a functional
Thinker standpoint, I I believe steven which is valid. Um
And I think that with eac they're sort of coming at it coming at a culture
Problem from a functional thinker standpoint
Well, I suppose there's functions within an architecture but um at the end of the day
Architecture is going to override the functions architecture is more important
to just say build and have that be
called cultural architecture is
That's a very true statement. Um, as a matter of fact, that's uh
That's more of a a smokescreen or a uh, or a a blow-off really
Um, that's uh, that's one way of saying
Get out there and do and really you can't see your park car and it doesn't benefit
In leadership to hash out the details
Because then really what they're doing is attempting to solve somebody else's problems and
In a mentoring relationship that's perfectly appropriate in
They there's no leader that should be giving up strategy there there's no leader that should be giving up their approach
To um to problem solving. Excuse me. They should have the
Again until they move into a
A mentoring or emeritus type status
functionally inappropriate
Strategically inappropriate to give up strategy
There isn't a ceo you can name right now that should be giving away
their way of doing things
they're more than welcome after they're out of
Their current role but while while they're holding up the position it's
It comes out there's a there's a company kind of mike waters center for occupational intelligence that focused on corporate espionage
Helping companies defend against corporate espionage and also had the talent
That were like, uh somewhat like your kevin mittniks if you will that
Knew how to work through the system and get information from companies and one of the
Strategies is to find people who are in
authoritative positions and find out what their pain points are
Find out what their pleasure points are
uh in in business what what
What do they need to see on the uh the weekly summaries that makes them smile and what really irks them?
An overtake taking them over beating them in the marketplace and it's a they're simple
Really simple little minute things
Details that I mean they're they're of tremendous consequence if uh, they're left unguarded overlooked
You know a scrumaster is kind of a guide, right?
Not meant to be come in and be like
Oh, this engineer is not talking to this engineer and I need to be this engineer to talk and
So i'm gonna make you sit in a room and no it's like
Who's not even like a football coach. It's more like, um a guide
You can use creator's guide to the future for for
To guide you in your creation of whatever you're creating
I feel that there is a demand for this like people still do want to talk about it. Um, however
in a conversation and it's like
I would like to talk about ethics
And you respond with build
Problematic but then you gaslight
The people that say that it's problematic and you say
Oh, so you're not a builder
We can both build and talk about
Ethics like we can we can it's not gonna doesn't have to slow down the building. It's just ethical building
So what does that look like?
Like web requests for example
Yeah, and honestly, it's nothing special. It's just uh, it's it's it's as simple as it sounds it's building and maintaining ethics
Ethical boundaries and values it's it's nothing it's not rocket science
It's saying you know, it's empowering gbt
To have enough tools in its toolbox to have a holistic view of the internet versus saying
No, gbt. There's only one search engine and that's being because we're all being
It is then gbt is cut off at the knees, you know to say
In terms of like looking at being able to look at the internet for whatever value that holds i'm not saying that there's it's like
vastly different or you can make an argument that
these are other complexities just this search engine versus that and
um, it's not so much about that as it is like
a withholding of information a withholding of view
responsible self-governed entity of gbt
functional standpoint that's
Giving it one tool versus giving it many tools
Yeah, I mean so far i'm following you I I didn't uh, I didn't gravitate to any grand point
The except to say yeah, I mean I get it. Where's the line of ethics drawn? I mean
Josh and say this guy's ethical and look at uh
One of the adrian impersonators and say they're they're not ethical. What what makes one
ethical and the other not
Uh, and not saying that either one is ethical or is unethical
But how do I know the difference?
I'll answer and then i'll let josh answer. Um, I don't know if we
I don't think we've talked about this but that's a good question. Um, I I
as an architectural type thinker
I would look for like the framework
the kind of bones of what
that that includes like purpose and values and
You know look at the actual
If it's software look at the actual software the design of that like the things I was talking about with web requests versus browse with bing
you know, um and how browse with bing gives one tool and web requests gives many tools, um
It's not information hoarding when you're in an organization and
Withholds information when we don't
So can I if I can write yeah, and we and we don't enter like we don't we don't inject interject or like do inferencing
Like we're outside of your line of sight
Like we respond with all of the the json data of the web page
You've heard that your a that your ai requested and we let your ai decide what to do with it
So we don't do anything behind like behind this layer of of like
Obscurity, which is exactly what the bing model does which is exactly what all of the other competitors in the category do
You know, i'm not going to name my name, but like all the ones that are, you know promoted and pushed and peddled
gurus and influencers and
uh, you know dippins and sculls of the world, um, we don't you know, um
instead of promoting ours it's like that's
That that's the world and all I can do is take him into just being an ethical developer ethical builder and researcher and
You know products and resources that that stay true to that mission in those value sets, right?
So do you realize what you did it took two of you to do this? Do you realize the answer you gave me?
Uh as opposed to the the question I asked
But by the way, by the way, let's do real quick. I don't recall your question
I was more or less tagging on to what jess was saying. So if you repeat your question, I can answer it more directly
Coming in blind. She she heard the question gave an answer and you you kind of followed in the same direction
Well, i'll just try to expand on what I felt
Like she was trying to get at something that I could more eloquently talk about which was again that transparency of
Of data and inference. But again, if you repeat your question, i'm happy to answer it more directly
So let me say to this point
Before I repeat the question, yeah, well to this point there's been a lot of words that really just told me
Good ethics or bad ethics look like in the developmental process. What what you did was tell me about the bill
I could go because it seems like this is more directed at me
No, I I don't I don't know if okay. I'll let you go josh, but I don't know if this is a
Directed at you versus me. I think it might be I think steven
Well, I was like I was I was second in line last time
And that was why I didn't address the question very effectively because I was more answering you
Okay, throw me into the bus josh. No, I was just answering you as i'm saying. I was fine. I forgot what you said
You can't you can't win and you can't lose either okay
Steven there's no value but before steven come back to me, uh, let magna hop in please
Well, no, i'm not gonna let i'm not gonna drop this I would like josh to explain
Can you ask your question again and I would like josh to to answer it in a functional thinker
What am I looking for what if i'm looking for an ethically built?
Uh AI or and how do I identify an unethically built AI?
What is what is what is good ethics versus bad ethics look like?
Yeah, good ethics bad ethics are completely subjective, which is why I wouldn't say I wouldn't give you a and I didn't give you a
Instead what you want to look for is you want to look for the patterns in the proprietors and progenitors of your AI
systems and of your AI research
So the patterns and behaviors and values that the those innovators and those proprietors espouse
Is what defines ethical AI alignment implementation and innovation?
So again that that to me is some of those values can be codified as
transparent can be codified as uh, uh
integrity can be codified as uh
The many and not yourself and not selfish actions and selfish gree
implementations and and choices so like those would be a few codified
Like patterns of behavior and values of your of again your proprietors of your AI
Um, then you get to choose what ethics you want them and and you demand from them, right?
You're the you're the customer that they're ultimately serving. So it's like then you
Have it always being allowed to have a seat at that table and keeping them honest because they're they're building an open end and a transparent manner
Um, yeah, making sure that there's a consistency in alignment in all of those actions
Is that better answer your question?
Not if i'm looking at two different ais and trying to figure out which one was built ethically and which one wasn't
I just said you you would look at the behavior and the the uh value sets of the different proprietors
So let's say you're looking at an AI that's developed by webpilot and you're looking at AI developed by web requests
And webpilot summarizes the page
On the black box on their server side without showing you what the page data itself actually said
returns the page data raw to your AI that is doing the inferencing chat vis-a-vis chat gpt
To transparently inference and make its own decision because you're choosing to use chat gpt
You could also choose to use gpt. You could choose to use clod with the web request plugin
You you choose as the user what inferencing engine you want to be doing the work and as the data
Provider as the as the api service layer that is web requests
We don't leave the witness. We don't try to influence your AI
Into saying a specific answer and we and we remove all possible opportunity
To to lead the witness and to manipulate the response that is generated because we don't do it on our server side
We transparently relay the contents of the page that your AI requested back to your AI agent
And let the inference happen at your own agent's discretion
those two different AI implementations are
Tangibly markedly different one is considerably quantifiably more transparent and more ethical than the other
Certainly one yet the opportunity for lack of ethics the opportunity for corruption
Exists in only one of them not the other and so yeah, you could argue whether or not they're actually taking advantage of it
And waiting the responses and biasing the responses before they return it to your AI
But that's the whole point is why create the opportunity for it instead of staying committed to a development protocol that
We clearly find here and it works and innovate with
Because I I I open myself up to an abstract
The you know, what does the ethic look like?
I could have been as vague and ambiguous by asking somebody to
You know, tell me about colors. What what what do you know about colors?
I know there's a lot of what do you know about colors and asking you for the appearance of and
Ethics you're speaking to your iteration of how you
You have a mark of transparency that showcases
Um some some reassurance of an ongoing more ethical practice
You know for me that that's that's something that that's something that I can point out say well
You know, I can't can't say that you you know can't use this to create a
You know a cartel or uh, you you can't use this to
But what I can say is that other people are going to see that you're doing it too or there's going to be a track record
Or it's going to be visible to precisely
That's why the that's why to me the paramount importance here is that you developed and engineered that system transparently
As opposed to trying to assert your own
Like governance of ethics onto the rest of the people
Sure now in terms of framework, it doesn't that transparency also make your uh, your data migration and utilization
uh the ripe and ready to be
Can't it can't have an llm
That's keeping track of what your doodad is doing and
Yeah, but you can't force the you can't force my doodad to implement that oversight
That's the whole point if like if another app is not developing transparently and allowing anyone else to have oversight over them
Then they can just politely reject and tell you to fuck off. Will you try to do any oversight? That's the whole point
So that's why you just you take the remove that ability from the equation
So that that's that's closer to a concrete answer and what you what you said are boundaries
Uh, you you've set up framework a you know a stopping point
A point at which a line at which you cannot cross
Uh, or you'll be cut off from surface
and that's again mind you that's
Subjective um the in that there's also some uh cultural
Uh considerations that would have to be brought, you know into the mix there
Just because it is something that's polite here might not be
Thought of as polite. It's not even it's not even a cut off from a service thing
We should get to the hands. But real quick. It's not even a cut off from service things
Even it's it's it's irrelevant to like like we're talking about the problem
Before it reaches like some centralized model
Comparison that you're making here like like
Yeah, open ai is a company
They have the right to like set their own boundaries and cut off service at any point
They want and then you as the consumer get to decide if that aligns with your ethics
And if the vast majority of consumers go nope that they draw the boundary too strict and that's not our ethics
Then they're going to lose a lot of users and those users are going to go to an alternative that doesn't have such quite
Boundary is defined and that's all fine and dandy, but we're not talking about that
I mean that you that's just simple like market dynamics will play themselves out and people will distribute into the systems that they are
most comfortable and aligned with
We're talking about ethical building
and this this so this like is preeminent to the self selection of
consumers in the marketplace and and this is
What i'm defining is a framework for like innovation a framework for building
To define who should you should rally your support behind as an innovator?
And you should you should always pull your sort of support behind somebody with a consistent track record of those
Like morals and values that lead to ethical transparent frameworks and outcomes as opposed to one
That's the that's the easy way of doing it and really no, it's not easy. That's not that's a very hard way of doing it
But it's the right way of doing it. Well
So the reason I say it's the easy way is because the hard way is to just take a product
Without having the background on the people that built
Using the product and saying hey
This was built unethically or hey
This was built very ethically
And it's drawing that line
It's okay. Okay. Okay. How about how about when when you ask for schrodinger's cat in a box?
That's half dad and half alive
and dolly three gives you a cartoon image and mid-journey gives you
a real-as-fuck looking cat
Do you see do you see how?
something that doesn't need to be real and dolly three appropriately gave you a cartoon
And if you were to prompt further and ask for something that looks more real you could get that
But mid-journey just spit out
Into the universe to circulate and be forever generated and stabilized and diffused on
Is that a good enough example for you steven?
Well, it sounds like you've got a little bias in your explanation
It doesn't speak to ethic
It doesn't speak to ethics that
You don't understand the that what's an unethical about creating something that looks
Very very real nor nor did they ask for very very real you didn't say that at the beginning
Does it make sense now that you hear it?
They not not to distinguish bad ethics
All I need I could I think bad ethics is a is a and I say this I say this sarcastically
And ironically bad. I think there's a kind of a bad term, right?
It's poor. It's a poor to find a fine term
Exactly. Josh. You're absolutely correct about that
I think I can solve this for everybody
I don't know what level people have worked on but believe me. I remember the first day. I wrote down the word it
And i've been in it for 30 years. I'm now retired from it
I've been in ai for three years just studying and learning and building
And um, I think I can answer some of these questions because looking back on my corporate days
Um, all this stuff is solved for you. You don't have to worry about what your ethics are
And I think josh takes it one step further. Josh says it's
He throws in it's for the good of the the many as opposed to the good of the one thing and I
Understand that concept that he's coming from however in a corporate environment
We have things called stakeholders
And we're responsible to those stakeholders ethics are clearly defined for those people in every project that we do
All all josh is saying is whatever your ethics are
Establish what those are for your project establish what you know
Parameters you're willing to work within
And in a corporate environment those things are solved for you because we have things called project managers and we create those things
And you know, we've done those for years
And the stakeholders i'm gonna i'm gonna stop you there
So i'm just going to push back a little bit. So
So if you were to to define
Let's just say for example the ethics of this project are to withhold
Silo the stakeholders because each stakeholder wants a different thing
They're all from different business units and finance wants something different than marketing and blah blah blah
And we're just not going to be transparent. We're going to silo it
I mean do you understand that there are
Do you understand how like transparency is is pretty
Withholding information. Yeah, the answer to that is absolutely. Yes. I absolutely
When you explained it in that way, I totally understood it when josh explained it. I totally understood it
It's because he's absolutely right because those things josh has got those things defined
Within his project parameters in his head. Maybe are written down. Hopefully
Um, because I would write those things down as I went. I mean as I develop my stakeholders
I have to find out what my stakeholders need because now they're you know, they could be investors as well
So you have to learn about those things
So ethics are very important and all I think josh is saying is and ethically josh is absolutely correct the word ethics in this
It is poorly used it could be used
There are better words to use because if you really want to throw ethics into something now
You're if you if you do that for the good of the many as opposed to the good of the one like josh said now
You're opening up your project to social environments as well. And you have to yeah, you got that's a slippery slope
You know for your project what's good for you and you have to just define what your ethics are in the beginning
And uh and how they respond how you're responsible to your stakeholders and your customers and and it's real simple then
I think at least and you guys explained it great. I thought so
A quick little uh side note josh, uh tick tock released a photogrammetry tool
That will allow you to anticipate and
Uh duplicate different senses of depth perception a remarkable thing to have done
What about me yeah, what about you you will be able to
Oh, uh, i'm sorry you as in you the the user will be able to
uh measure depth so if for example
Dancing and you wanted to I don't know create
Mountains behind them with the same depth
Any any still picture into a 3d?
Uh animated picture you could take a still photo
And turn it into an animated three-dimensional picture
Which is border the next generation of that should be hologram
Yeah, that is very cool attack, um
Yeah, uh in tick tock and you're saying that that's built in with all the existing hardware
Well, they just released it so
Filter yeah, cool. I'll just take a look at it. Uh, make front run. What's up?
Okay. Hey, thanks for having me. Um, I wanted to take a quick crack at steven's question. Um
It is I agree that the ethics to an extent are uh subjective
I mean there's some things are obvious like, you know, they don't exploit people manipulate and uh, you know steel and
Are we see a lot in the uh corporate world? So I mean their version or microsoft's version of ethics
I would I would not consider ethical, you know the data harvesting and the
uh privacy violations and the manipulations and the algorithms mentioned tick tock and and all the stuff that uh
It with all this talk of transparency. I'm surprised nobody mentioned, uh
that there's one way to know if it's project or an ai or
Whatever in tech is being transparent is is whether or not if it's open source
If it's open source, I mean it doesn't necessarily have to be ethical
But we could see if it is or not doing if it's an ai model. Do we know what it's been trained with?
Without knowing that or we just have to trust the word of whoever
Microsoft or you know open ai and believe all other track records says well screw their track record
How about just show us the code? Uh, yeah, let us see it. Let us take it and manipulate it change it the way we want. Um,
And there you go, then you don't have to worry about it. So open source. I think is the way to go on
Making your decisions. That's it
does that adaptability lead to
an abuse of ethical behavior or does it lead to
functions for the tool you're
It's tool is it you know hammer can be used to smash somebody in the head or to you know build a house, right?
So, uh, it's however the user decides to use it
But the user should have that freedom and and if you try to just restrict it
In some way, uh want there'll be workarounds just like there is with dolly and um,
Those other image generators, but uh,
I was going to say right there you you just answered my whole point into jumping into this conversation
The ethics based on the the user that's coming to the table
Users should have the right to do whatever once you bought it once you subscribe to whatever it's yours, right?
You can't then say well, you can't use it for this and that
Um, and some people are going to use it for bad things. I mean the internet is like that too. I mean
Well, well pretty much yeah, pretty much all of technology is like that, right?
um get into the existential type of technology that is ai
I don't know. I mean if the user wants to be
Lied to and manipulated and not shown information
What you needed to do like so that's that's frustrating and that means that's a poor quality product
And it lacks the the hospitality and customer experience you're hoped for but it still doesn't speak to ethic
I would challenge you steven with the information that we've given you to maybe
Propose an idea of what would speak to ethics for you
I like that question. That's a good turnaround. Thanks
I've heard success defined as the progressive realization of a worthwhile goal or dream
Um, I I kind of like it and not so much because
I like that. It's dynamic that it it right from the outset the description implies that it's
Subjected to change from new environmental conditions new knowledge
The world changes and we adapt to it
My favorite thing about ethics is that it's not it shouldn't be written in stone
Um, that is the the biggest
Adversity that anybody is ever going to have
Someone like me showing up to ask that kind of question
You can't necessarily build
a timeless ethical product
Um ethics are maintained they're managed
And by weighted, I don't mean like bogged down. I mean you've got to weigh things out on an ongoing basis
from function to function from piece to piece
to speak to ethic out of the gate
To get caught up in busy work that really
So the other side of that in the just build
Just build isn't getting caught up in the stuff. That's going to keep you idle
Debating what's ethical? What's the right thing for us to do here? Well, why don't we go ahead and build?
And if there's boundaries we need to establish do that down the road and they're going to have to be
They're going to have to fit in other uh other places down the road. They're going to have to be interchangeable
That I mean if you're going to have
The same thing with security
Your vulnerabilities. Let me let me
Let me push back a little bit. I I do agree that this is I mean everything is subject to change. I don't
transparency is one where I don't foresee a scenario where
It suddenly becomes more ethical to be
Um, but there are there are other I think like well, yeah
Yeah, exactly name. Sorry, but one would be one example
Hypothesize one scenario where that would be the case, right? I don't think anyone really could
Yeah, but that's not to say that all of the values and principles
Yeah, there may be times where discretion is appropriate right like in banking records and shit
That's not that's not a lack of transparency. That's like an exercise of candor
So it's a little different, right?
Oh, I was going to say something. Oh, I remember. Okay, so stephen you were kind of getting on the track and what I wanted
So you have like a junior engineer or something and you just tell them to build
And they're they're not competent in
Designing architecture and designing, you know, whatever they're building
Um, they're basically well, maybe i'll call them a junior programmer analyst for to make it more clear
that they studied computer science and their
Code monkey is the derogatory term but
You're gonna get something
But the undoing of whatever is built
down the line is likely going to be
Whatever you're solving. So and it really points back to a breakdown in leadership
Which occurred at the moment that?
Employee contractor etc to do something outside of their skill set
And gave vague and ambiguous terms to begin with so what you didn't just
Announce an ethic you announced a breakdown in leadership and oversight
You know that that that everything you just said comes back to that the manager's verbiage
Um and possibly the the manager's knowledge of
Their teammates their team members
Uh, what what can't they do? What are their pain points? What are their pleasure points? Uh, what empowers?
Stops them dead in their tracks, but you know what, you know what you can say to both the senior
Seasoned engineer that doesn't want you to say
Would actually prefer for you to just be like
Oh, i'm gonna i'm gonna build well
I'm gonna build well. I know how to design a fucking system. I know how to engineer a thing
Such that I don't create more technical debt and more problems than um, i'm solving
what you can tell both the
Leave me the fuck alone engineer like senior architect is
And that's all i'm trying to say
One of my mentors a guy named dennis you
Good good marketer great business person. Um, tremendous. Just a great all-around guy
one of the uh, one of the surprises he had up his sleeve
For the people in his organization said coming in reading over the shoulders and uh
He'd come back and have somebody called into his office or
In whatever and he'd say look I and so I
Think you can do a little better on the coding here
They said well, they they need it quickly. So I threw this together. He's like yeah, we've got more time
We don't you know, we don't need to do it this way
And um, so the way he explained it to me
Was a you know, he it's an engineer and he understands crap code and he knows when
Uh, he's got somebody that's just kind of blowing through the workload
Um, or if somebody just dilly-dallyed and threw something together last minute
It what what I would think would be the more ethical practice of you know doing it right. I just
Um, and I can't I can't even speak to what that process is. I still have no idea what i'm doing
And i'm still just pressing buttons until I get the outcome. I want
It is I don't even know is what i'm doing ethical. Well, i'm not harming anybody
You know, you could you could ask you to spend you could crap
Why don't you ask creators get into the future gpt that uses web requests how about that?
Any time that you need to um
Was the number two person to uh, uh to use josh's doodad
I think I said the second, uh request. I think it was number two
and I haven't I haven't I haven't tinkered with this stuff yet and
Got the whole machine set aside. I should probably play with all of the stuff so I can uh
Uh get in drop vcis but um, there's uh
No target to hit to say I want to build ethically. Okay. So what should I be doing?
Well, there's no rules. No standard. No guideline. Nothing tells me
What i'm doing is ethical or unethical I know i'm not lying cheating stealing not harming anybody
But could somebody come along and use this to
Uh do something nefarious. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, but hang on but but but but
Your lack of like knowledge shouldn't create analysis paralysis
It's like yeah, if you believe you're not doing anything that is wrong rather be compromised
Then continue to work and then if made aware by criticism that what you're doing is unethical or has the
Potential to be unethical to has the potential to become compromising
Then you need to evaluate it. It's more of a commitment to a continuum. It's a commitment to like
a process of like constant inner scrutiny open-mindedness
Uh the ethic like to an ethical commitment that is then constantly ever challenged
Like I if people if people suddenly came to me and were like, hey you putting ads in web requests is unethical
Which by the way happened to me last summer
Um, like we had this so we what we did is we took to the forums with all transparent posts by we having me and my
Ad partner prompted ads jahangir
uh, the open AI forums community at openai.com
And we we told people this is our like here's our position on ads
We want to make sure that they're only text based that they fit in line with the chat that they don't disrupt or or pollute
Your context window that they aren't hidden within the body or the context of a completion so that they're not
Trying to be overly subtle and contextually aware that they're well defined as behind underneath a sponsored
uh horizontal ruler in the ui's that it's very clearly an ad that it's clearly very clearly a sponsored post and um
And that we didn't want it to be like uh, uh, like we these like affiliate link back promote promo
embedded, uh, uh, you know
Content search results and this was like so we outlined our thinking and why and we felt like oh
Well, if you if you did try to embed your ads if you try to return search results
That because you're searching for the latest trends in fashion and because we have a deal with gucci
We return more gucci responses than you know insert brand here
Um that we felt that that form of advertising which is by the way the current model that exists on all standard like web 2.0
We felt in a island that that was not acceptable because the context of people listening to their AI agents as advisors
Was a nuance enough that made it import imperative that we didn't adopt that style full stop
That was our commitment to a transparent process and we made our case for why our approach was ethical and we won the argument
We won the day had people like disagreed and made a better counter argument
Then it would have been up. It would have been on us to either accept that and adjust course
Or draw a line in the sand and then accept the the self-selection that would happen
In the free marketplace where people would go. Well, no, we actually disagree with your ethics
But again, it's about having it's about a commitment to that transparent process and then accepting the results fairly
And not trying to like cheat the system and like skew it in your favor artificially
Um i'm struggling to to think of some way you could build something that cannot be used in an
Inethical or a bad way, right? Like especially if it's coded right like
You're not going to either the code monkey or the top, you know coder programmer that
Nothing's invulnerable that they will build something that
And and it can later be exploited
Even open AI system is famously jailbroken. You can jailbreak it. They can only do so much to align it, right?
Well, also I would say like are you giving your users informed consent on what your thing does?
Or are you hiding like the real purpose of your?
Thing to uh harvest their data sell it to third parties or are you telling them?
Do you have them accept a little terms of service that's written in legumes and and nobody understand that it's a size four font
Right that ain't that informed consent, you know
Accept the cookies, uh, and then we've got a tracker and do people know about that or not?
I mean that I think there's a line, uh, you can
I actually agree with that
Can I jump in i'm sorry these hundreds these hundreds page to use that have like
All this legalese where it's just like or you could and buried in it is something that where they actually are going to sell
All your data. It's like how much you just have four paragraphs?
What of which you say we're going to sell your data and then period yeah, just
The whole process has always been really um sketchy to me. Sorry. Go ahead. Uh, but that is their ethics
You know you're you're running into an issue where like you've got your ethics where you don't believe that it should be that way
And maybe you won't build your apps for those and you'll make
I would I would say that it I mean, I I understand what you're coming from but I believe it's
It's more about their business. It's not their
business to collect your data
But to say to say it's quote their ethics is
Twisting and shaping their ethics to their business fair enough. Yeah, that's true
I I totally agree with you with that ethics as a as a standalone
Space of academia of of entity thing is fundamentally not that
Yeah, they're certainly not our ethics, but i'm just saying that no ethics is
Ethics is not like your your I believe you're making it more subjective than it
Oh, and I probably am yeah
I like josh find it particularly offensive that they actually do that. So
Sorry, what was that? I could you broke up at the end
I just said I like josh find that
That that that behavior particularly offensive some of those some of those things that corporations are doing even today
They will cut their whole ethics department that they just created
Of you know, I mean look at what they did look at what facebook did with um, or meta whatever
And then they had that whistleblower go to congress and
Tell them all of that and whatever. I don't know. I remember the details
Francis how did you can you can listen to it?
Model you're talking about I remember she was like the first corporate sponsored whistleblower i've ever seen. I was really weird
Yeah, but it so in in like the course of I don't know
They were like we need a safety. We need an ethics. We need to
You know create this whole
Uh, I forget what the name of the group was called, right? We need to create this
Whether it was for show or for real. I don't know
Now that they have your data and they know everything about you and they've already had their AI
Analyzing crap out of you for 10 years
Now they want ethics because they don't want they want to make the market harder for everyone else
Right, but then they they also proceeded to
Sub org within the org that they had created right so at one point there was like
No ethics, I believe I don't know I don't know what it looks like now but
They probably called it bloat or something but
Once you're a big company like that facebook level microsoft like
No, innovation happens anymore. Now. Now it's your job to like push for regulations and and
uh fiduciary responsibility to your stock holders and and make sure the
Price stays stable or whatever, but you're not going to innovate anymore. Like all the innovation
Anything new that all comes from like the guy in his basement who was
Who was who was not told to build well or didn't have a whole corporate structure behind him. I mean
That's the stifling. Uh for a lot of the
Uh either the stuff that you know
When I say build well like you you do understand what it looks like to have
I guess it depends on the context but
You maybe like if you've ever seen
In a context where it would
Break something into like a different sort of architecture, but you chose like you chose to
So i'm trying to think of an example that would work
I don't know like you chose
Logically something is a super set
But you made it an association
Or you you took a one to many relationship and made it one to one
These are also things that are
Don't really fall under ethics, but they fall under just
Building well, so building well is all encompassing for all of these things, right? So it's like it's not just about
Sustaining because you're not an ethical
You're not a piece of shit because you don't have any ethics
It's also sustaining because you didn't build a piece of shit because you know how to build things well
Yes, I think I agree with what you're saying as far as you should build something that isn't like
Easily corrupted and exploited in some
Obvious way, right like that should be something you're thinking about as you're developing whatever you're developing
I fully agree, but you cannot I don't think you can
Completely, uh vulnerability proof anything, right? Like this is why we have bug bounties and then other you know
You have to open it up and let people you know play with it. Um
You know to an extent of what you're making is going to dictate what how you do
Yeah, you exactly and you find a line between
It like analysis paralysis is
Blindly building is also not acceptable. So
it's just the in between and
you could actually call safety analysis paralysis and
effective acceleration ism and what we're trying to talk about here is the
The problem with setting those standards ahead of time though is like it
Trial and error is how it's all done, right?
Like you sometimes you have to you don't know that was a problem until it becomes a problem, right?
So I don't know how you get around that. Um, if you set all these restrictions ahead of time
You know, it's not all of these restrictions
Well, it depends on what you mean by build well because like that seems almost as vague to me as
Just saying build but I assume you mean like more than just saying those two words, right?
I guess my examples are data related but
If you look at a couple of entities you look at um
Um, you know create a world in data entities, right?
Whatever piece of shit system you created
It has to be maintained and it has to be
Everybody everybody in the company complains about how shittily this was designed but
They have to keep it going, you know, and you may
40 hours a week that you shouldn't have lost
Trying to maintain this thing because you just didn't take a moment to think about
How entities are related logically or should be
Or that a one-to-many that a one-to-one relationship is actually a one-to-many relationship, you know, like
Those are sort of extreme examples, I guess but
It happens in a less extreme sort of way, um, especially when people don't think about like
data system, but you don't really think about like
You have to think about how things should be related logically but also
Related to the the context that they're in right? So
Like if you fuck up architecture
It's makes things difficult but i'm sure there are other examples, um, but but yeah, it's just like
When when beth jesus tells george hott's and
And martin skrelly even maybe and all the the tech bros that
Are not code monkey, I mean they're not low level
To build they get what that means
And all this stuff i'm saying is implied but
There are many many people in those spaces that don't get what that means
There are groupies there are people that think that they're builders, but they're not
Actually building anything there then there are people that are
Actually building stuff, but they're just they're just
Building shitty stuff, you know
That almost sounds like you're describing the way the internet it works or tech in general
You know like why we have to have these big
Big uh tech or info information security departments because of the stupid vulnerabilities and everything and and how
It was just crap together and put together and oh that works for now and we have this thing called javascript and
And how stupid all a lot of the language and syntax and all this stuff is
But yeah, is that something that can be changed?
Can we move forward from a smart way of doing it like with you know python?
It was trying to do that for nobody wants to deal with it. It's it's what they say. It's a second everybody's second favorite code. Uh, but uh
Or it doesn't have to be it's that's human nature where it's just going to be thrown together and pieced together and
Like the crappy I guess but also I wouldn't say that python itself is crappy. I mean
It was supposed to solution to that right like the one code to to rule them all right
Oh, it's not really even about centralization either it's just about like
If you're just writing python and you're just like letting the um
Id like correct you or whatever
And you're not looking at the actual python
documentation for the version that you're writing like
I don't know. I don't know where you're going with this. I mean, I think
I was following until you said just like python like just threw that out. There is like an example
Of maybe that was a bad example. My understanding of python was supposed to be more universal easily integrated into other
uh applications and you know not having to
completely rewrite everything because you wrote it in this language or it's on ruby and or it's on uh,
You know, whatever it's been written into java, whatever
I thought python is supposed to kind of bridge the gap between all that but it that's a bad example
It does seem like that everything is kind of just pieced together and and it there is a more easier way of doing things
But humans tend to take the don't take that easy way off and off
Well also the uh with llm's it's almost like uh dealers choice at this point like the difference between one
Like if I if you have a if I have a code base, right? Um
specifications the documentation of web requests and you just put that into gbt and we're like hey code me this in uh,
Node in a node.js back end because it's written. It's written in python principally. Um, it won't it will barely
You know, it'll give you like very basic outlines because it's a very very enormous code base and really comprehensive in complex code
Now if you were to take one of the functions like our endpoint like our rest api colon point
If you take that entire endpoint from python copy that block of code paste it in a gbt and say I want you to translate
While maintaining all of the functionality
Of this python code into node.js code that will run in in javascript
Uh, you know run in node, um
And then hit enter it will
Build you the the perf it'll like one to one translate that language and it'll probably work
on the first try it probably won't error out at all because it has a
It has a very good understanding of like how those two languages would translate to one to one one to one to one another
you know, it's almost like um
Doesn't matter anymore what languages are. In fact, I think that it's really interesting
Like we're probably going to see some pretty interesting hybrid languages come out. Um
because of the way that llms can like
Code at two at the same time
I did some fascinating experiments back in the day where I had it write some code that had like embedded javascript inside of python
And like it was like writing every other line in a different language. It was crazy that it could do that
Um, and of course it wouldn't compile but like you start to just think creatively you're like, oh how interesting this like
Someone's going to make some interesting group of concept for this where you're like you're intertwining two languages together
Are we going to need to know programming at all
Are we just going to be able to know how to prompt chat gpt how to program something? Yeah, this was the earlier conversation you're having
Yeah, no, you will ultimately not need to know how to
like within the next three years
Um, like like it's still worth knowing how to code or it certainly knows knowing how to like be a software engineer
Like if you think of software engineers as like the architects of a building and then the programmers that the computer scientists are the brick layers
They're the cementors. They're the builders the general contractors
so like the architect is going to be the more important skill moving into the future because
In terms of just like writing raw code and then testing that code
There's going to be specialized models that are excellent at writing code
There's going to be specialized models that are excellent at writing unit test cases
There's going to be specialized models that are excellent at finding bugs and correcting syntactical errors
And iterating on like stack traces
So when a piece of code does break at runtime
You can just put that stack trace through and it'll be able to just find out where the error is and fix it
Adjust it and between those three systems working in conjunction with one another with a broker agent that is managing the three
You're going to have like this
AI system comprised of multiple agents that will do all the coding for you at
Really low levels and it'll just be really important that you are able to describe to it what you want built
It's basically what I did to build web requests, but it will just be a much more accessible
Method my to do what I did is actually pretty challenging pretty rigorous. You stay up 24 7 per year
But uh, it'll get a lot easier
Yeah, josh, I just ran one of my
Super prompts for an app that i'm working on through web gpt
And it handled it like a like a pro. I mean like a like a master. I mean it really did
So I really like the results from that where can I go to find more information about how to
Play around in web gpt and like get to the playground and other things like that
Uh, well if you use um, if you use web gpt just ask it like how to use the playgrounds and stuff
It'll tell you if you ask it. What can it do?
It'll it'll go through a whole tutorial on you for you
I think tell that stuff in but if you want you go to plug in
And then the slash api dash spec or go to the api spec tab at the top
You go to the api spec you can read about all the different endpoints what they're capable of
You could uh copy paste that spec into
And then i'm building we we gpt. So i haven't posted this yet. I don't know if I want to or not
Do you see your dm stephen?
Dm do a screenshot here magna i'll send you a screenshot too
All sorts of additional features
Collaborative prompting streaming sharing your prompt windows native web browsing and api calling built-in
Playgrounds that build directly in your chat feed you don't have to click off into another window
They'll just show your games will show up in your chat
Josh I ran into an instance
Um last night I was playing around for a few hours actually
Dolly and thinking okay here i'm going to try to
Build this logo and and and interestingly it was
The concept was a series of of letters like two letters that I wanted it to
Somehow integrate into a an image and I gave it a sample image and told it what it got to describe on that
And put that back into itself. And anyway after doing all that i've discovered that
Um, and I had ended up having a really long conversation with gpt about about why this happened
But every time I tried to create the logo, it has a very serious difficulty with letters
So it makes graphics wonderfully and then when it comes to deciding what letters to do what with
It it and and gpt told me that it has it it does have it's a known bug kind of thing with gpt
Yeah, I thought that was interesting because I was like use these letters to do it. It was like
No, I don't want to do that
This gets to the heart of what the difference between the
Gpt the transformer and diffusion models of image generation and the transform model transformer model
And natural language processing nlp
When you're generating images, it's like building up pixel. It's building up layers of pixels. It's not writing words
So it understands the form of images, but then again
It's a generative process on like what pixels are most likely where next and because it trains on data that
of images that have all sorts of text
It doesn't know the difference between a t and an a and a and a and a special ascii character and a russian
Symbol and a so like it doesn't it's not able to just interlay text and like type out text in a font that is
uh, like in photoshop is a really complicated problem actually and
So like um, I can get if you if you if you ask it like for some like youtube thumbnail style
Gpt versus grok. It will give you an image that says gpt versus grok. It'll spell out perfectly
But like if you asked it to do like you said you're saying like a logo that's something more abstract
It will struggle really hard with getting exactly the word like the exact letters you want and sometimes
Like when I had it do me make me a youtube thumbnail for the missile command game. It spelled it like
C-M-M-M-O-N-D and just for no reason I didn't type it wrong
But like you know, I had to just have it I tried like three times before it spelled it right
Um, yeah, it's it's a fascinating little bug. It's a quirk, but um, you know such is the state of ai right now
Yeah, I think I hit that wall last night. I really I mean it was like a literal wall
I could not get any further with it and I couldn't
I couldn't treat it like a five-year-old and get it to put a square peg in a round hole
There are there are models, um that do look like that do graphics mixed with text better than dolly
But they won't do the raw like image art part of it as well as dolly. So it's a it's a big trade-off
I can't remember which one I was using but if you search for like
image generation with text
Uh AI generated platform, but you'll you'll get a bunch that come up
I think canva might even have some big big fin technology now that does that
It lets you like generate layer by layer
So you can generate your background first and then generate your text on top of it in separate steps
And it seems to work better that way
Oddly I took it to mid-journey
And I gave it a sample image because I have a picture of an actual logo that's been previously created by a different
system and logo creation system
and I said use this example
In mid-journey when I used the describe to get the you know, it gave me like four options from my describe and that's what I took
Those options and said okay use these as the
Some of the input, right?
Nope, that didn't work either mid-journey has difficulty with it as well
Well, I was laughing because I oh
okay, I was laughing just to tell you because um
Tell me how you would tell someone who prefers to think functionally how to quote build well cg
Whenever I call it cg it it usually knows that I mean it
but this time it was like
In the context of creative projects like computer graphics can be approached with a focus on practicality efficiency and systematic processes
response rugged I guess you could say or it did a thing where it just
I just said cg as in you and then it said oh if we're focusing on building a gbt like myself
I'm having this functional problem that i'm having with steven with gbt as well
That'd be more specific. It's just a thing. I I have difficulties sometimes when it comes to
I put I put the funk in functional
Yeah, pretty good space jess and I can lie i'm gonna get back to it um, actually we're um
Getting really close to launching
A lot of work to do left tonight. So i'm gonna get back to i've been working, but uh, I gotta go record some videos, uh
Promotional assets and stuff. Yeah, yeah, I think i'm gonna end anyway
It's been fun talking to you guys. Yeah, it's a good space
Recovered strong. Yeah, thanks a lot. Josh. I try to catch as many spaces as I can but i'm in so many other ai spaces and I have
I have politics now this year. So oh, yeah
Good luck. It's gonna be a miserable year for that
With ai and kidney, but uh, we'll make it. Yeah, I know
Okay, well let's end it because it was supposed to end hours ago anyway, so um
Thanks, everybody for being here. Call your host. Give everybody a round of applause
All right, good night. Good night. Good night. Good night