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Crypto is *******!! Market Overview, Top News - Cryptopulse
Recorded: May 23, 2025 Duration: 2:03:40Space Recording
Short Summary
In a recent discussion, key topics included the launch of the Gemini Bitcoin credit card, a significant partnership for RWA tokenization, and the impact of institutional investors on the crypto landscape. The conversation also highlighted security vulnerabilities following a major hack, the ongoing trends in stablecoins, and the resilience of certain crypto projects amidst market fluctuations.
Full Transcription
on the next one. Thank you. I'm going to go to the next episode. Thank you. The Thank you. The All right.
What's going on, everybody?
Welcome to Wolf.
Good to see all of you in here.
Happy Friday.
Happy Friday, indeed.
It's good to see all of you.
Let's see, we got Zet in the house, Tropic.
I think Noah's up here.
Potentially Noah's rugged, though, because...
Oh, no, no, he's not.
He's not here.
We're good. We're good.
Yeah, shout-outs all to you. Happy Friday. We made it.
Made it to Friday.
Unfortunately, Bitcoin did not fly to $120,000,
so I don't know what broke, but something broke.
We're going to need somebody to fix that,
so I'll call the guys up.
We'll get that fixed by the end of the day.
But Bitcoin is sitting at sitting at 108.9K
at this current moment, down 0.74%. Oh, no, sorry, sorry. 1.97% in the last 24 hours.
We've got all the alts. Again, a bit nervy here. I see Ethereum sitting at 25.75. XRP at $2.36.
Ethereum sitting at $25.75.
XRP at $2.36.
Solana at $181.27.
Dogecoin with some good news in the last seven days, still up 2%,
but today they're down 2.5% at $0.23.
And we've got, what's it called?
There was one big loser I saw from the past couple days.
There's also a couple of big winners.
Like Bitcoin Cash is up a lot.
Hyperliquid's up a ton in the last week,
up like almost 30%.
There's one big loser I thought I had seen the other day
that I wanted to bring up, but I can't find it now.
But yeah, Craig's going to be alive.
I know last couple of weeks,
Genius Act has been a big deal that people are talking about with some stablecoin regulation.
Now that stablecoins are a hot topic of debate as well.
We've got the Gemini Bitcoin credit card, which I thought was pretty cool.
You get 4% back on your Bitcoin just using their credit card.
I think that's awesome.
And you can get other rewards as well.
Bitcoin is just like their big announcement one that they did.
But you can get other coins back as rewards, which I think is awesome. So that's good to see that coming through. I saw Texas
moving forward with more plans to establish a Bitcoin reserve. So things are moving.
I'm pretty excited to be alive. Next week is the Bitcoin conference. A lot of us are going to be
there. Definitely the Wolf team will be there. And so I'm very much looking forward to that.
So anyways, kind of excited to jump into this conversation with you folks and um yeah man uh tropic how are you doing good uh some
really cool stuff there that you mentioned um since you just dropped the whole texas thing i
was on a space the other day with uh this this company i forget the name of them but they're
they're located in texas, which I did not know that
Texas is actually moving forward to have their own peer-to-peer within-state currency.
So Texas is like straight rebels.
If any state, if it was a roulette wheel, I was going to guess which state would be the
first one to try to do their own currency.
It would definitely be Texas.
So I thought that was really interesting. And they're actually going forward with it. They're trying to back it with like
resources and things that Texas has in their reserves. Obviously, they're an oil producing
state. They have lots of minerals and such. So Texas is trying to do their own digital currency
backed by Texas resources. I thought that was just really cool. But other than that,
Bitcoin pizza day was yesterday, a really fun event. fun event i mean sure we'll swap some stories on that but it was uh just a good day
all over like the week was just crazy oh okay so um you mentioned you said texas is launching their
own coin backed by what yeah there's got this this company from texas it was texas something another
um they're not the
one launching it but they were telling me all the cool things that's happening in texas
they mentioned the digital reserves and all that stuff but they're doing their own in-state peer
to peer currency so like not usdc not bitcoin and everything because texas is very forward on
bitcoin and all that stuff but they're actually doing like a text dollar or something of that nature where it's like texans supporting texas
businesses and they're going to back it supposedly with whatever they have in this reserves including
things like oil and things that are produced in texas the actual like monetary value is going to
be backed by texas stuff and it's going to be like a te thing to support the Texas economy. So I just thought that was just very Texas.
Very cool. Very cool. Interesting stuff there. If anybody has any thoughts, by the way,
on any of these stories, definitely throw up a hand. I saw Prometheus also threw up one
down there in the comments, which I actually completely forgot about. Actually, Prometheus,
if you want to sort of dive into that a little bit on what happened there, I know SWE was involved,
and so a lot of people were not loving that. But if you want to break open that story for us a
little bit. Yeah, sure. So hi, everyone. Great to see you all here on CryptoPulse, everyone retweet the space. But yeah, basically we had a major hack
at CDIS protocol, $260 million breach.
And so CDIS is the protocol that's under SUI basically,
like it's the supposed decentralized exchange
liquidity provider on SUI.
And yeah, it affected, I think, more than 62,000 users.
These sorts of stories, unfortunately, is what brings a lot of skepticism to an otherwise very integral industry, I would say.
Generally speaking, there are some really amazing players here,
but unfortunately, yeah,
their security was pretty much compromised
in whatever shape or form.
I'm still looking into exactly what happened.
I'm not really sure.
It seems to be some sort of smart contract execution
issue, but I'll get back to you guys on more on this. But yeah, that was a major
major hack. And unfortunately, they froze their movement for a while. And I think they're back now.
But yeah, major hack.
Yeah, Tim, welcome to the space.
Good to have you up here.
I see your hand.
Thank you, sir.
Yeah, sorry.
I had a little bit of trouble logging in this morning.
Yeah, the SUI thing is interesting,
not only from
the standpoint of what happened on the exploit, and it's interesting. I always find it interesting.
What's the difference between an exploit and a hack, right? A hack is where they did something
they're not supposed to, and an exploit is where they took advantage of the contract doing exactly
what it's supposed to, what people didn't think about of a certain combination of events
when they wrote it and audited it. But much more importantly with SUI is that this recent,
the recent exploit hack, what do you want to call it, about three quarters of the funds have been
frozen in wallets already. They haven't been recovered, but they've been frozen. But the interesting thing is it only took 114 validators
on the SUI blockchain to freeze all those wallets. And I think the rest, 60 odd million,
was moved into ETH, at least according to published reports. And I find that fascinating
because one of the central themes underlying crypto has always been decentralization, right, and lack of centralized control.
Bitcoin arguably was created after 2008, 2009 because of in response to QE, to quantitative easing.
quantitative easing. So now the question there, and some people, SUI supporters have started
raising the issue. Hey, have we just exchanged one central bank for another central bank?
And granted, there's a big difference between one Jerome Powell and 114 validators on SUI.
But still, if you've got a small group of people who have, relatively small people, a group of
people who have that much control over
a blockchain. On the one hand, you can say, hey, it's great for cases like this. But on the other
hand, you can say, what happens if this group is politicized or if this group is influenced by
one single, perhaps according to most people, odd approach, could they just decide, okay, we don't
like this guy, we're going to freeze his account or something. 114 people is a fairly narrow base
to build an entire multi-billion dollar blockchain and empire and group of projects on.
It raises a question. I think it's a tough one.
Yeah, I appreciate that breakdown there, Tim. Good to have you up here.
I saw TropicCant shot up, so we'll go to him.
It's really quick on that point. I know there's other people to pass to, but
that is a great point. And that's what I brought up to one of my friends who
happened to be a liquidity provider in one of those pools. I was like, that is a terrible,
terrible thing that, sure, you didn't lose your money. That's pools. I was like, that is a terrible, terrible thing that,
sure, you didn't lose your money. That's awesome. I'm happy for you. But this makes a strong case
for Bitcoin. And like, my whole thing is as far as like with all this tech, because everyone knows,
I love to explore all these different tech. But the reason why I don't think a lot of these
ecosystems are good for money is exactly what you said. Like it's one thing to be posting
content or putting up a game or whatever and relying on AWS servers or Facebook or Instagram.
And I cool, I understand that if you have 114 validators for things like that,
that makes sense. It's better than having one. But when it comes to money now, I think
when things like this happen, it just makes a strong case for Bitcoin.
And although no one would ever say I'm a maxi, I think it really strengthens the maxi position
that like, look, if you want to talk about money, Bitcoin, and then everything else,
have fun and explore. But it's a completely different argument and conversation.
Yeah, definitely great points in here. I wanted to see if maybe zed or brooke wanted to weigh in on this could have you both up here so you guys just hopped up a second by the way meta zed with
the new profile picture what what is this bro what is this new profile picture change this is
throwing me off hey what's up yeah that's what i like to do keep you on your toes and on that note
Wouldn't be the same if I didn't come at you with a rowdy howdy in a GMG AG and how y'all doing?
It's your boys that aka meta Zette because if you met me you met is it and if you hear that, you know where you're at wolf
Crypto, baby. Oh, it's an honor to be here as always with all of these legends and luminaries up here
You know, I think that's a very important topic uh decentralization i love that tim i am actually diving into i'll go ahead
and shill for you uh pre-search um i i just checked out your link and bio and then uh checked
out pre-search got the extension added and everything so i'm using that
as a way to to get educated on the cedis hack and and the the the dex breach it's crazy 260
million i think that's an important question about privacy decentralization like you know
what's really old and maybe it's not as decentralized um i think uh lady traders uh hip to
a layer one block starting to fade into the matrix oh no it might just be me but you were good for a
little bit and then it started to you know so sorry it started yeah i think yeah thanks sorry about that um no i was just saying that i think
that's such an important point that a lot of people you know we come to web 3 looking for
decentralization for security for privacy but sometimes we we're not even getting that for
what we expect and lady trader and wolf recently got me up to Telestai,
who's a layer one blockchain that has that kind of built in,
you know, into the whole system, you know,
as a way to kind of circumvent.
It's truly essential.
You truly own your data.
You truly own your everything.
But yeah, Tim, I see your hand.
And I was just giving you a shout-out.
I don't know if I was kind of there, but I was going and chilling for research.
Got the extension added.
I got a spot.
Awesome.
What you have built in there, you know, able to do that research.
So, anyway, go ahead, Tim.
Is that, man?
Really, really appreciate it.
Back to the point about decentralization, Tim. Zetman, thank you. I really, really appreciate it. Back to the point about decentralization, though, let me say something slightly heretical,
and that is that real decentralization doesn't work until a project is mature because you
run into too many problems.
You can't go out to the whole community.
You know, DAO is notorious for
running very, very slowly. And besides, even in a DAO, anybody, the people who control it are
the people that control the question. I'm sure anybody on this panel right now could phrase a
question to the exact same audience and have the question come out yes and phrase the question slightly
differently spin things and have the question come out no so the the it's really difficult to
be completely decentralized and projects a lot of projects that claim they are aren't because
the very person who's claiming we're decentralized it's it's immediately hypocritical because who's the we, right? The
we are the people that are centralized. So it's a spectrum, right? Amazingly, Bitcoin is about as
far out on the decentralized spectrum as you can get. A lot of you guys, I'm sure, remember
Bitcoin.org and the hard forks of Bitcoin. So we have, you know, Bitcoin gold, Bitcoin classic cash, all the others. That was because of the hard forks that were taken by a centralized authority, a little bit overstated, I guess, because Bitcoin.org really wasn't. But now it doesn't even function. So you have and you don't need it. Bitcoin runs just fine. But even then, you know, we're going to face something with Bitcoin. When Bitcoin
faces a threat, the next one is probably quantum computing. And then all of the community will
somehow have to get together. And it'll be a fascinating exercise in peer democracy.
But for newer products, they're running into issues, they're running into problems all the time.
products. They're running into issues. They're running into problems all the time. They literally
can't be completely decentralized. And so I think what has to happen in the community is that we
have to acknowledge it's a spectrum, call it one to 10. And you're just starting out year one,
Bitcoin's a 10, and you're somewhere in the middle of that spectrum. So when you look at Sui in the
114, my reaction to that is, whoa, these guys are a lot more to the left of the spectrum, a lot more toward a one than a 10, if only 114 people can grab the whole thing.
And you can almost measure it on the spectrum saying, OK, how many people control it?
Well, if you're a one, you're completely centralized.
There's one organization.
If you're a 10 like Bitcoin bitcoin then it takes the entire the
entire ecosystem or 51 of it to control sui we might have thought was a five but hey sui is
actually like a two or a three because look at the power that only 114 people have yeah that's
like ads bitcoin you know and i guess ethereum or
that are decentralized probably a lot of these blockchains out there that are
written as decentralized but are not truly decentralized i'm kind of like you're getting
at so let's go ahead and call them out and call it like it is um what are some other ones that
are really not truly decentralized that maybe you can run into some of these
vulnerabilities like xrp right isn't that on the list besides suey uh tron maybe solana
never really been a cryptocurrency i mean xrp is an an odd thing it's an odd example but let
me take pre-search. We're a decentralized search engine
because the searches are completely decentralized. We have 35,000 people around the world.
You do a search now, it may go through Zimbabwe. You do a search in five minutes, it may go through
Peru. Lovely decentralized. But is the whole project decentralized? Hell no, right? I mean,
I introduced myself as the CEO of PreSearch. That means there
is a centralized element to it. And we're, you know, young and dumb and still moving up the
learning curve, still moving out the decentralized curve. And because we have to reach decisions
on a minute by minute basis, we can't be completely decentralized in terms of governance.
But on our roadmap is, especially when we have our own prop search engine built,
we're going to start submitting dev issues to the community for prioritization.
Which one do you guys think is the most important?
We'll ask the community.
But we're still phrasing the question, like I said.
But we're not hypocritical. We're not saying, Hey, we're totally decentralized
when in reality, we're not, I know exactly where we are on the curb. I know how fast we can move
out the curb and we're trying to do it as, as quickly as possible. It's not so much that I
object to projects who, which are centralized. It's that I really find it massively hypocritical. And really, in many cases,
people are just flat out lying when they say they're decentralized. The phrase,
we are decentralized, contradicts itself. And I think we as a community let people
get away with a little bit too much in that regard.
a little bit too much in that regard.
Yeah, I love it.
I'll throw it back to Cade.
I don't want to take over too much time.
I'll stir up some hot takes and everything over here.
But thanks, Tim.
I'm definitely diving into pre-search.
Love it.
Thanks, man.
Thanks, man.
Let me throw the mic over to Brooke.
Haven't heard from Brooke.
I see Lady Trae is up on stage.
Definitely, you know, of course, Noah and Emp, of course, can hop in at any point as well.
No, hey, I jumped in a little late and just listening to these guys.
Tim, nice to meet you.
Was also kind of looking through pre-search.
I'm a privacy nerd had kind of have been for
for a very long time so that's really cool i'm i'm into it yeah it's uh it's been a it's been
a wild week like never thought in a million years bitcoin would hit all-time high in my lifetime or
even my child's lifetime uh from from back in the day. I was there too, Tim, in 2008.
I was there when the financial collapse happened and family members were affected.
And then here comes the Bitcoin white paper.
And for us, it was a little political and watching how decentralization was going to change everything.
And now, what, 15 years later only, we have this all-time high. It's
just wild. But yeah, I'm into your pre-search and looking through that, but glad to be here.
Things are looking up in the world, I think.
Most definitely. Most definitely. Always appreciate you being here, Brooke. Lady Trader,
let me throw the mic to you. Kind of things you're paying attention to if we've got any thoughts on
the prior conversation as well. Yeah, I think when we were talking about decentralization,
I agree with what Zet was mentioning about TLS, but then also a quiet network that you guys have
been covering quite a bit. I've also, I've done a,
I'm doing actually a marketing campaign for them as well and working very closely
with that team. And, and they are absolutely incredible. I mean,
look at what they are doing. It definitely truly decentralized,
especially when it comes to stable coins, right?
Because last world run,
I remember when I exited all of my positions at the end of 2021,
I was concerned because I was keeping a lot of my
profits in stablecoins. I did kind of diversify the risk a little bit on different chains. And
I would have stablecoins on multiple chains. But again, at the end of the day it was usdt and usdc for the most part and some be usd
but it was you know just a very scary part because it's like oh wow these are centralized
coins and so it creates a lot of risk and you know of course i took a lot you know some of
them in fiat as well and and you know, secured some profit that way that, okay, if something was to happen to my portfolio, blockchain portfolio, I could still rebuild
and, you know, and grow from there. But it was a very, very scary part, you know. And so that's
basically why I was talking about alternatives, decentralized alternatives to stable coins.
There are some, but also they are all tied to fiat, right? So we were talking about
these tracer coins that would basically, what I said was that there's, so here's the thing too,
Kate, I've been saying a lot of things, right? And if you look at it, most of these things are,
pretty much all of them, all of the predictions that I've made are coming true. I talked about
there's going to be meme coin ETFs. We are seeing the filings, right? And when I talked about it
a couple of years ago, people thought I was crazy.
Same goes for the stable coins.
I did say that banks are going to have their own stable coins.
Well, yesterday the news came out that multiple banks are actually creating their own stable coins.
This is what we want to see because that makes transactions so easy.
Instead of going through Coinbase or another centralized exchange to transfer my money out,
I can just directly convert it into whatever bank's stable coin it is and centralized exchange to transfer my money out i can just
directly convert it into whatever bank's stable coin it is and then transfer it to my bank wallet
which makes it a lot easier so it's just about adoption i talked about historical data i'm
actually going to go ahead and pin a post up here as well where i was actually talking to
el salvador's president a while ago it was like this post is from 2022. And I commented on his
post because everybody was just going after him about Bitcoin. And I replied and I gave him
exactly the historical data that I've been talking about for so many years consistently.
And I did say that markets are going to bottom out at the end of the year and so and that's what happened
in 2022 and another thing i've talked about this is what i'm getting to is decentralization when
it comes to stable assets and so tracer coins are the ones that i want to see more of there
you have a stable coins or not really stable coins but low volatility coins that are tied to certain sectors.
And so, Kauai has come out with Chi token,
which is tied to energy cost.
And so, it's actually, these are the kind of innovation
that I wanna see more of.
And that's what, and truly decentralized,
like no one can mess with it, right?
If you have a position in it, and it's not tied to fiat.
So there's that reduced risk as well.
And so, those are like the key factors that I'm looking for within decentralization. it and it's not tied to fiat so there's that you know reduced risk as well and so i you know those
are like the the key factors that that i'm looking for within decentralization owning my own data
owning my own ai this is another thing too like kate you've been on angel events we talked about
angel ai you've seen bill inman you know we what we've been preaching is that you're selling your
data or you're not really even selling.
You're just giving, you're donating your information, you're donating your data, your thoughts to all of these other companies.
And they are monetizing it. You're not owning it. And so you just check the box that, you know, everybody just takes all.
I agree with all of this, you know, messaging that they have.
I agree to their terms. I use their platform and they take all of my data.
And so now it's time for us to uncheck that box and take control of all that data.
So decentralization is definitely important there.
As far as what I'm looking for for the place, I had a very interesting conversation yesterday.
This was about gaming.
People were surprised.
Why is IMX moving?
Why is Gala moving when all of these other games, crypto games, are just dying?
when all of these other games, crypto games are just dying, like 20 or 20 some projects were
actually killed in the last couple last few days. And it's really awful because some of these
companies raised, you know, tens of millions of dollars. And it all boils down to exactly what
their marketing plan was really weak marketing, really awful launches, you know, not partnering
with the right partners. Just a lot of greed, you know, not really
solid tokenomics, lots of factors there. But why is Gala doing good? Why is IMX doing good? It's
because they are listed on centralized exchanges. That's what your goal should be, because that's
where the retail is going to put their money. All of the new money is going to be pouring into the
exchanges, centralized exchanges. A lot of people don't know about decentralization. They don't know
Metamask. They're going to just buy on Coinbase. They're going to buy on Binance. And that's where the
liquidity is going to come in. But I'm looking at, you know, just basically DCAing. I've added
a lot to my H&T position. Ape is another one that I'm adding a lot to. What are the other ones?
My goodness, quite a few I actually added to, But those two are the ones that I'm super excited about
because I added them again the other day.
So just converting more and more stables into alts,
any stables I get basically just get converted every Friday or early.
But excited to see we are here, Bitcoin at all-time highs,
all season coming up very soon, within a week or so, hopefully.
So, yeah, just that's what my take.
Very nice. Very nice.
I see Tim's hand sharp. So we'll go to him and then I want to hit Noah.
Well, I don't know which of those topics to jump on.
That was like a tour de the force tour d'horizon
she's a badass i love it um i'm going to start with the first one though and and uh you guys
might find this little thing that i did in in um where the heck was it hong kong um i was speaking
to a camden group a multi-family office group about crypto. And, you know, you want to entertain
people too when you do a presentation. So the title of the presentation was called
Hypocrisy Arbitrage. And right, arbitrage is just taking advantage of different information flows,
price differentials, et cetera, et cetera. And the hypocrisy arbitrage was geared to first attract their attention,
but also to get these family offices interested in investing in crypto. And the idea was start
with stable coins. And the reason I called it hypocrisy arbitrage is because when you look at
the origins of crypto, the use of stable coins is just massively hypocritical, right? Because crypto
is created in theory with its libertarian roots to replace the use of the US dollar. I won't say
replace the dollar because that's a little too ambitious, although God knows it's taken at least
a small step forward in the last six months, ironically, with the new U.S. president.
But the idea is that it's not it's an alternative to to fiat alternative to the U.S. dollar in particular.
And so the fact that crypto traders, when they want to have less risk, when they want to get out of the market they go into something that is
actually more than a hundred percent backed by the US dollar it's USDC is 100.3 percent backed
by you know treasury bills repos and the equivalent it's it's really amazing that more people don't
don't focus on that and for the last like year and a half, I've been telling people,
look, crypto is going to divide
into different categories.
You're going to have BTC,
which is going to be its own.
It's going to become a reserve asset,
not a reserve currency,
but a reserve asset.
So it's going a separate direction.
It's going to be regulated differently.
Then you're going to have stable coins,
which will be regulated differently because they are fundamentally different from the rest of crypto.
Then RWA is probably going to get split off, too.
And then you'll have the hardcore crypto projects, which are most of those people fleeing to something that's backed by the U.S. dollar when they want to get out of risk in the crypto space.
And that that little presentation was was very well received.
And ironically, the purpose was to make, you know, TradFi folks more comfortable with crypto by saying, hey, here's a slice of crypto
stable coins. They call it crypto, but you know, it's not really.
Yeah, definitely interesting points there. Noah, do you want to jump in?
Yeah, I was going to say, I think crypto people flee to stable coins because Bitcoin just has not
lost that volatility yet.
So when you have a market crash, you're still having Bitcoin crash by, I don't know, 50% in an insane bear market or at the beginning of an insane bear market.
Bitcoin becomes that safe haven across multiple cycles and also multiple, not just bull, but bear markets.
People aren't going to flee to it because they see the stablecoin as a way for them to get more Bitcoin at a lower price.
Yeah, I think stablecoins also solve a lot more problems than Bitcoin does.
Both have found product market fit, but stablecoins are legitimately solving problems for people in other countries that don't want to hold Bitcoin because of its volatility, but want exposure to the U.S. dollar.
So if you're in Venezuela or Lebanon or Iran or different countries in Africa, Nigeria, you have a lot more access now to storing your wealth in the world reserve currency, which is the U.S. dollar.
And I think that's quite amazing, right, being able to send dollars across borders without
permission. We've never seen that before. Bitcoin, obviously, is what it is. And I think that as it
becomes more widely adopted, it'll stabilize the way that gold has.
Although gold doesn't look so stable if you zoom out over the last 10 years, it's up only.
However, I don't see any other sector of the industry having found product market fit the way that Bitcoin and stablecoins have.
Yeah, let me jump in.
That's not really the point the the they of course stable coins have
a really good purpose and if you think about stable coins it's arguably they're arguably
the best investment for the issue or in the world where else do people lend you money
and you don't have to pay them to borrow it because that's what Tether is doing. That's what Circle is doing.
They're literally, everyone is giving them their money.
They're sitting on a pile of cash.
They dump it rightly or wrongly into Chinese real estate commercial paper or into T-bills.
And anything they make, other than a few operating expenses
is pure profit it's an amazing amazing business and my point was not that there's not a utility
in stable coins and that stable coins don't make sense there's a tremendous amount of utility there
they are a safe haven and the but the and they're very usable very easy for
transfers i love the fact that remittances which i thought i thought btc would would solve the
habit at all but remittance payments with stable coins are much much easier get all of that agree
with all that you're absolutely right but that's not the point the point is that the there's this
there's this underlying hypocrisy or irony, if you don't like the word
hypocrisy, that people in the crypto space who are very anti-fiat, very, very anti-fiat,
they use stable coins all the time without any realization of what they're doing. I agree there
aren't any alternatives,
at least not yet.
And I agree that there are massive use cases.
They're just fabulous,
especially for the issuers,
but also for the users,
which is why people allow Tether
to make $5 billion a quarter.
But there is still this underlying dynamic
that I don't think most crypto people
are really cognizant of.
That was my only point. Yeah, no, I hear you. I think, I mean, I don't, I can't speak for your
circles, but I think that my circles are quite cognizant of the centralization of stable coins,
and they don't necessarily like it. But at the end of the day, you either, you know,
want to make a point and say, okay, I'm a decentralization maximist and I hate fiat.
And therefore, I'm going to take this 40 to 50 percent hit in Bitcoin that I see coming
because I don't want to go against my ethics or my morals or whatever that is.
I think a lot of them know what they're using.
And I think they know what stable coins are and the decentralization of them.
But at the end of the day, most people are here to make money.
And that's even your most OG Bitcoin purists. They care about money. People care about
their pockets and they want to see number go up. And so I agree with you. But I also just think
that a lot of them are not ignorant to the fact that stable coins are as centralized as they are.
That's fair. Maybe my circle is ignorant of it and not ignorant of it,
too. I don't know. And they just don't like to talk about it. That's the other alternative.
Yeah, Prometheus, let's see your hand. Why don't you jump in?
Yeah, just very quickly, because we touched on this last week, Lady Trader, I think,
like the role of stable coins in expanding money supply without expanding the money supply.
Right. And, you know, Tim, I think you've got a good point in the sense that, yes, like in terms of the decentralized ethos, we are, you know, it is a little bit hypocritical because you're sticking to you're making your underlying base a fiat,
which has infinite supply and long-term depreciation anyway. So, you know, what happens
when we have the next COVID, you know, like someone meant like, Noah, I think you mentioned,
like when Bitcoin gets unstable. Yeah, fair enough. Like, you know, you want to move some of that,
you know, top value into
a stable coin pull it back in but what happens when like say you know the next false flag which
by the way they're planning okay don't think like this stuff doesn't happen it does all right um
and that's why you need to be smart about your money and why you need to come to crypto pulse and the likes of, right? But in 2020, we saw a massive hit
in the US economy and the dollar and whatnot. And so what's going to happen to stable coins if the
dollar, hypothetically, in a crisis situation goes to 50 cents? What happens then? I think this is something that we need to increasingly think about.
For sure, though, I think that, you know, in spite of its volatility, I think Bitcoin has proven itself
being at an all-time high now to be like the hard store of value. Yes, it's a fluctuating value, but it's extremely high value nonetheless.
And so, you know, it is the digital gold as far as I'm concerned.
There are other some projects which I think have, you know, incredible integrity and long-term valuation.
You guys know that I'm a big Cardano fan and I think Ripple also has the potential as well.
But none of them are Bitcoin.
You know, Bitcoin's the King Kong of this jungle.
And so I think that's the general perspective that I think we can, like, just recognize that, yes, there's volatility on each side, but it's all about how you dance, you know, with each tide of the marketplace, right?
So yeah, I'll land my thoughts there for now.
We haven't heard too much from Brooke.
I would love to see if you've got any thoughts on this conversation, Brooke.
If not, we can come back around.
Oh, sorry. I was reading.
No, you're good. You're good.
I was reading. No, I actually, yeah can come back around. Oh, sorry. I was reading. No, you're good. I was reading.
No, I actually, yeah, I don't.
I was just reading up on some stuff, but come back to me in just a minute.
Sure, sure.
Tropic, also hadn't heard from you in a little bit.
Wanted to see if you had anything you wanted to weigh in or bring into the conversation.
Otherwise, happy to bounce over to Emp as well.
Yeah, kind of.
I'll pivot a little bit completely different direction but um as far as yesterday um of course uh you know that
i went to this uh you know the pizza day event and such and it was so much fun now this is going
to ruffle some feathers buying pizza and socks and doing all sorts of things with street vendors
and we're paying for it in sets,
which is like, everyone's like, oh, why would you do that? But at the end of the day,
like, you know, it is a currency and currency is spent. And, you know, whether you're spending your dollars or spending whatever it is, like no one ever says, like, why would you spend your
money on a pizza? Why would you spend your money on socks? Well, number one, I'm hungry. And number
two, well, I really didn't want socks to be honest, but I just wanted to show this lady that,
hey, you don't have to walk around with a bag of cash making change for everybody. Or your
alternative is to go make an expensive, you know, digital payment thing using one of the banks in
Jamaica, which is absolutely ridiculous. Don't want to go down that rabbit hole, but it was just a cool experience. And it's no different than, you know, if I had
swapped out some money or whatever it is, you know, from my card, U.S. dollars into Jamaican
dollars, whatever you get to say. And so it's like, it's, it's, it's a currency. So yeah,
I bought pizza and socks yesterday with sets. That was cool.
That was cool.
Well, I think the problem, this is the thing.
I would love to just purchase stuff with sats and use Bitcoin the way that it was originally intended to.
But until they get, I don't know what it's like in Jamaica Tropic.
I mean, here in the States, until they get rid of this honestly silly capital gains tax on Bitcoin,
I'm probably biased, but I just don't think that
there should be capital gains tax at all on Bitcoin, then why would I spend it? Every time
I spend it, then I need to, oh, now I need to think about reporting this to the IRS, even if
it's a $5 transaction. So it can't even be used if people wanted to use it as a currency to purchase things.
That makes sense.
That's so, okay, one of the interesting things that we find is that it's much more easy to get this adoption.
Where we did this was in Kingston, which is the capital city, which is like the New York
city of Jamaica.
Like half the population lives in like this small little area.
And it's a lot harder to get the adoption to use over there
because number one like they have access to a lot more banking banks are open more and it's just more
convenient and so forth but in the country where it's like you have limited options and it's very
difficult it's actually a lot easier to get this merchant thing going but you did bring up a good
point number one jamaica has no capital gains period. And then also the fact that the alternative is like to open up a there's no cash app. There's no Venmo, PayPal, all that stuff here.
actual transactions for merchants, it's going to take forever to set up. There's a whole bunch of
fees. The percentage, like if at best, if you're a big reputable business, it's like six, seven
percent, and then you're going to have annual fees and then the POS rentals, all the stuff that gets
very expensive as opposed to the transactions where I think what two Jamaican dollars worth
of sats, which is like, you know, less than pennies. You know what I mean? It's like, it's,
it's, it's night and day. It's so much easier to use your sats here.
And again, if someone's going from dollars into sats
and then just using the sats,
it then spurs the whole like circular economy.
Because right after I bought the socks from her,
she went and bought some pizza.
And so in five minutes, it changed hands three times.
And that was a lot of velocity.
I love that, man. That's awesome. And I think
it's cool that you guys don't have capital gains. And the only way that Bitcoin is going to be used
at scale in countries like the US or in Europe is they also remove capital gains. Because again,
every time you make a transaction, I guess you would have to figure out when you bought those sets and write it down and make sure that you're
I know a lot of people don't, but that's a technicality.
And I think until that technicalities isn't removed, then we're not going to get mass usage of Bitcoin as a currency to purchase things, goods and services.
Tim.
Yeah, it's interesting i i i i really want to tell myself you should get a
life because you've thought about this stuff the capital gains thing let's let's step away from
crypto though and look how look how capital gains in the u.s and most people or many people i would
say on this on this call are u.s but many people also live in countries with capital gains tax.
It applies to most. If you travel outside the U.S., let me use a U.S. example.
You go to Europe, you buy some euros, and then the euro, for whatever reason, suddenly spikes against the U.S. dollar.
And you start spending those euros or bring them back to the United States and convert them into dollars, technically,
you also have a capital gain, right? It's not that Bitcoin is being taxed because it's been
singled out. It's because currency conversions technically are taxed. Now, from a practical
matter, there's a de minimis rule, right? And if it's just tiny, you don't have to report it.
That's in the tax code.
And in fact, some of it's being stripped out in the House Republican bill.
But there are de minimis rules in the tax code.
So for the small transactions you're talking about, you don't need to report them.
And I'm not a tax lawyer.
Let me make that very, very clear.
But it just makes sense. You can't keep track of this little stuff. If you convert into euro,
zero goes up 2% and you buy the exact same pizza or the exact same pair of socks,
you technically have a capital gain there. Nobody, including the IRS, expects you to report that.
expects you to report that. Although technically you should, the de minimis rule kicks in.
Although technically you should, the de minimis rule kicks in.
So with Bitcoin, the same thing applies. So if you go and buy a car with Bitcoin,
you buy a $50,000 car with Bitcoin that you paid $2,000 for, yeah, okay, you've got a capital gains
issue there very, very clearly. And on the one hand, that's a real pain. But on the other hand,
hey, it was an investment and you did make $48,000 on it. So there's an argument that it should be taxed to the extent that tax systems
support governments and we're not complete anarchists. So I don't think the problem with
using Bitcoin is as dramatic as you described.
And then there's another completely different way of solving it.
And that is you acquire a Bitcoin basically at spot today.
And even if you wanted to report every anal retentive little move,
you wouldn't have to worry about it because you bought it at spot. And so the net taxable income would be marginal. But frightening as it sounds,
I've actually thought a lot about that because I run a VC fund. I run a couple other funds.
And I get the question a lot. Okay, if I buy in kind, is it a realization event if I invest
with Bitcoin? And so we have moved away from funds into SMAs, segregated managed accounts,
to allow people to not have a realization event because they have a lot of low basis BTC and
they earn 6.5% in BTC terms with us, but they don't incur capital gains. The 6.5% is taxable,
but they don't have a realization event. So it's a good point you raise, but I don't incur capital gains. The 6.5% is taxable, but they don't have a realization of
it. So it's a good point you raised, but I think there are at least two ways around it.
Yeah. By the way, that was a great point, going from one currency to another. I never thought
about it like that. If you buy a euro and it goes up against the dollar, you technically have to pay
taxes, but no one ever does. I'm not familiar with the
fund that you just highlighted. It'd be cool to learn more about it. I think my issue with,
so the other way I see it is like, let's say I got my salary paid to me in Bitcoin. Like,
let's say I got $100,000, for the sake of the argument, paid to me in Bitcoin. And,
you know, a year later, Bitcoin is doubled against the dollar.
In the same scenario, right, in a different scenario, I have a euro.
I have euros as a European.
And let's say in an alternate reality, because it's not going to happen in ours,
the euro spikes against the dollar.
Like it goes up 50% against the dollar.
Like it goes up 50% against the dollar.
If I come to the U.S. as a European and I purchase a car with euros, am I obligated to pay the – like this is what I'm trying to get at.
I never had – I never went from a dollar to a euro.
So am I obligated to pay any tax, any extra taxes just because the euro has gone up since I received it against the dollar?
It depends on the tax rules in your home country. If you're if you're a U.S. citizen where you're taxed on global income and you flip that scenario when you bought a car
in France and you realize the massive capital gain, then, yeah, you'd be taxable. But if you're
French, for instance, and you buy it in the U.S., you're probably not.
Again, I'm not a tax lawyer, but I deal with a lot of this stuff on a daily basis.
You you would probably not have to pay capital gains because the the rule governing the rules governing individual taxation are both the rules where a transaction takes place and the rules where the where the person is is from.
Most countries don't tax foreigners.
In fact, I don't know of any country that tax a foreigner on a capital gain.
They realize where the underlying transaction didn't even take place in that country.
So in your example, you could buy a car and you wouldn't have taxation here.
But depending on where you are in Europe, you might have taxation there because, you know, let's face it.
You put out you got one hundred thousand dollars in Bitcoin. Let's say it Europe, you might have taxation there. Because let's face it, you got $100,000 in Bitcoin.
Let's say you bought a hot car.
You bought a $200,000 car with that $100,000.
You have a gain, right?
Depends how it's taxed.
A gain against what?
Yeah, yeah, Tim, but a gain against what though?
Against the dollar, right?
Yeah, exactly.
Which is why you wouldn't be taxable in the US, but you might be in your home country. what though against the dollar right yeah exactly but we don't just why but we don't do the same
thing but you might be in your home country yeah but i guess the point i'm trying to get at is we
don't do the same thing for a european or a singaporean or an emirati that comes with their
foreign currency to u.s soil and wants to buy things exactly well why do we treat bitcoin
i guess i'm trying to understand why we treat Bitcoin any
differently. It's not Bitcoin. If you're Emirati, somebody in Sharzad earns his $100,000 BTC,
$100,000 worth of BTC, comes to the US and buys a $200,000 car, he's not taxable either. The rule
is completely consistent. Whether you like the rule or not it's a different story but the rule is completely consistent so i guess what i'm
trying to i guess in my head i should have explained it better but i'm an american i'm living
in saudi or whatever i'm getting five years of income in the saudi national currency it goes up
by x amount against the dollar um you're saying that i would still have to pay capital gains
against that difference even though i've just received the currency straight up?
Yes.
Interesting.
I did not know that was a rule.
I have to look into that.
Look, I mean, think about it.
People trade FX all the time, right?
What's the difference between a trader who trades FX really quickly and someone who receives their salary, in your example in reals and has a
slow trade there is no difference i mean i think i guess technically you're right however the person
that's receiving the reals is not they're not trying to trade it they're just receiving the
reals because that's what the country that is employing them is issuing um but I get what you're saying. I get what you're
saying. I think it's fortuitous, right? It's just it's it's accidental. But that stuff happens all
the time. Look at people who win the lottery. Right. Yeah. Hey, we're going to give you 20
million dollars over 10 years or we're going to give you 50 thousand dollars a month for
for however, for 40 years or whatever. Guess what? That's all taxable. They didn't earn it either.
Right. So it's it's it's really no different. A windfall of any sort is technically taxable from
a practical matter. You know, we talked about that already. The minimus stuff, people don't care
about it. But when there are including the IRS, but when there are significant material transactions,
hey, guess what? Tax man's going to come and knock knock it I think that the US should abolish
capital gains that's that's just me though tropic that's kind of a different topic I know I know I
know I'm just I just yeah we wouldn't have to go into all these nuances if we just eliminate them
all together and I have my my reasons for why I think that should be. But Tropic, go ahead. You got to come to Jamaica, man, and not pay the capital tax.
Exactly.
You know what, man?
I go to Dubai or I have friends that have been living there for 10 years and they've just accrued wealth so much faster.
They can just trade in and out of Bitcoin to the Durham and then just go back.
I don't know. They have their salaries that are untaxed.
They literally have made probably twice as not twice the amount of wealth as us in the U.S., like our friend group in the U.S.
just because of the, you know, the no taxes on anything.
And I understand like we're a different animal, different machine, and you can't really abolish income tax completely in the US.
But I think capital gains taxes are silly.
You're putting your money on the line.
I think that should be risk enough.
If I lose $100,000 in the stock market, I don't get to write off $100,000 as a loss.
But the other way, if I make $100,000.
Yes, you do.
Yes, you do.
I thought you only get to write off up to $6,000.
No, no, no, no. You're thinking when you have a capital gains loss, you can only deduct $3,000 against ordinary income.
That's what I'm saying.
Yeah, but if you have a capital gain, you can write off 100% of the loss.
capital gain, you can write off 100% of the loss. Right. I can write off a capital gain
on a loss, but if I just have a capital loss, no capital gain, I can't write that loss off.
You can, but slowly. It depends on how big it is and stuff. But let's face it, somebody has a big
capital loss, especially in crypto. Hopefully,
they're going to follow it up with some capital gains. I've got capital loss carry forwards from
some years, capital gains, taxes that I paid other years. I've come out way ahead, but I've
used the occasional capital loss here and there. It's a good thing to do.
Yeah. From my experience talking to tax accountants and stuff, they say it's too, I mean, it seems too complicated, Tim.
I wish they would just make things more simple.
Oh, that's, wait, that's, I want to add on a point to that.
Absolutely, man.
Absolutely.
Got my vote.
I sometimes think about how many really intelligent people that are lawyer, tax lawyers and tax accountants and everything else in the United States and globally. Just
think if we harness that brainpower, simplify the tax code massively, like Hong Kong, 15% tax done,
dusted. Just think what the world could accomplish with that boost of brainpower and human capital
that was trying to produce something versus trying to reduce taxes every month.
something versus trying to reduce taxes every month really quick but that's my design though
so it won't it actually you know having that structure in there where basically the the you
have to know how to play the game to actually win that's by design so all of those things the reason
why it would not be eliminated is because you're talking about you just mentioned a whole bunch of
very powerful lobbying groups and then you know that's another thing in itself. But going back to the whole currency thing, right,
in different countries, another thing that makes it kind of awkward in the US,
in the sense that since it is the world reserve currency, the most dominant currency and so forth,
you're not used to accepting other currencies. Now, if you come to Jamaica, you go to just about
any business, if you have the US dollar or the pound of Canadian dollar, most likely they're going to accept it.
Depending where you are on the island, you might have about six options.
So adding Bitcoin to it and saying, hey, sats, the only thing you're paying with euros, Canadian dollars, pounds, or Jamaican dollars, most businesses here are going to accept that.
So it's a completely different animal when you're talking in that regards, too.
So, like, the average vendor, you tell them, like, how much is this?
They'll say 300 Jamaican dollars.
Like, well, all I have is two U.S.
I'll take it.
You know, and that's just how it lands.
Oh, by the way, real quick, real quick.
We do have, I just remember,
we do have another space starting here
in just about three minutes.
Leigh Trader also has her FOMO Friday
starting in three minutes.
So I want to make sure we get around to Prometheus for,
because I see his hands.
I know we only have a couple minutes left in the space.
I want to make sure he gets in the conversation.
But Prometheus, I see you, brother.
That's sweet of you, bro, to give me one of the last words.
But no, great conversation again on CryptoPulse.
Tim, I messaged you on LinkedIn.
Let's definitely have a chat because I completely agree with you about, you know, freeing up the brainpower.
And, you know, we've had many, like, discussions on this forum about creating new education.
And, you know, we're working on a
genius school so definitely would and also i love your product pre-search guys definitely give that a
check out if you know i've already made an account it looks badass i got honest results tim i looked
for covid affecting myocarditis and i got i got some honest answers, unlike Google. So anyway, yeah, no, just final thought,
folks, is that, you know, keep your eyes on these projects, do your due diligence. You know,
Lady Trader made some really great points today, as did Tim and many of the others, but definitely
like, you know, the mature projects is the ones that if you're a first-time investor, I know
there's a lot of people who come to these spaces, your first time investors, please do your due diligence and stick to the hard assets
in crypto. I'm talking like Bitcoin numero uno and then some, okay? Like, you know, you're not
going to go wrong with Bitcoin. Having said this, yeah, I think there's a lot more I think we can get into, Cade, but I know we have another space coming up and Lady Trader has her. So yeah, great discussions today at CryptoPulse as usual and looking forward to the next one, bro. Thanks.
keep the conversation rolling here um you know talking about all things in crypto i mean if you're
if you're in the crypto space it's definitely a relevant topic to you kind of dumping in jumping
into the real world assets land and talking about crypto and i'm excited for this next conversation
we have i believe that we have um the ceo of serenity shield up here on stage so i just want
to do a quick little mic check and make sure we're good to go on that end. Hello. Hi.
Hey, hey.
How's it going?
Yeah, yeah.
Good, good, good.
All good.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, listen, I give a very, very short introduction, but, you know, we can start with the big picture, you know, just dive into a little bit about who you guys are.
If you could give us a bit of a quick overview on what Serenity is all about and sort of the core mission that drives the project as well.
We'd love to hear from it.
Yeah. Okay. So firstly, thank you for having me today.
And I'm Venkat Naga, and I'm one of the co-founders and CEO of Sanity.
So let me first broadly tell what is Sanity.
Sanity, we are a blockchain technology company,
and we are in the business of decentralized data
storage, where the users can store any form of digital data in a private and a secured manner,
which is using our own patent-pending blockchain technology. We also have our own survivability
or an inheritance protocol, which we call D-DASP, where we enable succession of data based upon
multiple survivors or successes in a recursive manner.
So that's what we call it as D-DASP.
And all these features that we have in terms of decentralized storage, survivability of data,
all these things are empowered by a biometrics technology where it is integrated within our system for digital identity and digital validation.
So this is broadly what we do.
And of course, as we progress with the conversation, I'll also explain how Sanity is very actively and aggressively getting into the domain of RWA tokenization, where we have created a unique concept called RWS, which is real world services.
Very nice. Very nice. Yeah. And by the way, for anyone who's listening, definitely retweet the
space and click the like button. If you have any comments, questions or thoughts, definitely leave
them down below in the comments down below as well. But I want to also talk a little bit and
zoom in on your native token, Search,
role plays in the ecosystem, how users can expect to use it. And then definitely, I know we have
Prometheus up here. We have Noah still. So definitely, I'll throw the mic to them after
and we can get some questions, thoughts over from those guys too. Sure. So Search is a native
utility token. So basically, I would say that we have created a closed ecosystem
where every product and services that we do in Sanity, there is a certain amount of the fees
which have to be paid in terms of search. So that's why I call it a closed ecosystem,
and our token is deflationary in nature, because the more products and the services that we sell,
the more the users,
they are going to buy search from the market.
The supply is same.
It's sort of controlled and it remains the same.
In fact, we keep burning a lot of search
as we keep collecting search from our users.
A certain percentage of that is getting burnt.
So that means the supply is going down
and when users buy search from the market
to pay for the products and services, the demand goes up. So essentially, we have created a closed
ecosystem, wherein based upon our business model, when we have more users, the demand keeps going up
and the supply either remains the same or it keeps coming down because of our burn mechanism.
So that's why, I mean, it's quite an interesting concept where our token has an underlying utility.
It is linked to an underlying business model.
And that's what we try to do in terms of creating a deflationary token.
Very nice. Very nice.
Let me throw the mic over to Prometheus.
Hello? Can you hear me? Yeah, yes. Okay, cool. Yeah, I can. Yeah, can you guys hear me?
Yeah, I can hear you. I think we're good. I don't think there's any audio issues. I'll just throw the mic over to you.
Yeah, fantastic. Thanks, Cade. And great to meet you. Is it Venkhet, sir? I don't know.
Yeah, yeah. You're pronouncing it right. Yeah. Good to meet you, sir. Yeah, I'm Prometheus. Yeah,
I'm a consultant in this space. And I've been checking your product since Cade sent me over
invite yesterday. And looks very cool. Honestly, I think that there's extremely
a bright future for decentralized storage. I know you guys are also launching this
biometric crypto wallet, which I think is also quite interesting as well. Greater security for
sure. Would love to know how it is is that, you know, when it comes to like integrating with
other companies and marketplaces, you know, who are some of your existing clientele, if you can,
you know, openly talk about it, you don't have to, you know, give specific names or anything like
that, you know, just the kinds of partners who are working with you. And then also like, you know, the future of
integrating with, you know, services and artificial intelligence or, you know, other kinds of software
as a product services, SaaS services, how can they look forward to working with Serenity
to create greater efficiency in the marketplace.
Yeah, so that's a lot of questions in one question.
So let me try to sort of put them and try to give you an answer.
So should I start with the Biometrics card?
Because, you know, that's the Biometrics wallet. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So as you said, we have launched in the month of March, we launched this card called the S-Access card, which is essentially it's a biometric hardware wallet, but it has multiple applications.
And I'll explain it very shortly. Before that, let me also talk about Sincity Touchbase partnership.
One of the major partnerships we have for this biometrics card is coming out of Idemia. Idemia, they are one of the global leaders in biometrics technology.
You go to any airport, the airport biometrics technologies, you might be seeing it's coming
from Idemia. They have sold over a billion cards. So they specialize in biometrics technology and
they are also specializing in payment cards. So for S-Axis,
we are using the SDK of Idemia, where we have a technology collaboration partnership with them.
And S-Axis is a byproduct of that collaboration that we have with them.
And S-Axis is essentially two broad applications where we can sell it or people can use it as a hardware, biometrics hardware wallet. You might have seen a
lot of hardware wallets in the market, right? I mean, I don't want to name our competitors, but
there's quite a bit of, not that many, at least I would say four or five major players in the market,
which are technically, they call themselves as hardware wallets. And how is S-axis different
from the existing hardware wallets which are
available in the market? Number one, we are the only hardware wallet as of today where there is
a biometrics validation at the level of the card. You see, generally you might see biometrics,
you might have biometrics when you're using your mobile phone. But we are the first card,
I would say, where there's a biometrics validation at the level of the card.
And the external access is possible only through biometrics validation.
So we give a reader along with the card.
The user have to register his biometrics on the reader for once.
Then from there on, the card have to be paired.
And we have a mobile application.
And for anything and everything that you do, whether you want to come inside the application
or whether you want to transact or whatever, for anything and everything, you need to tap the card
and you also need to enter the PIN. So from this, you can understand that even though there are many
hardware wallets, yes, we have all the features of traditional hardware wallet where you can store, send and receive. I think we can accommodate,
of course, it's EVM compatible crypto assets that we deal with. We can accommodate, if I remember
correctly, up to 65 cryptocurrencies as of now, which is going to, we keep expanding the number.
So you can store, send and receive crypto assets
using this hardware wallet like you do
in any other hardware wallet.
But the difference is two.
One, we are the only hardware wallet
which have biometrics at the card level, number one.
And number two, since we are also in the area
of blockchain decentralized storage,
where we have our own product called
S-Box. And we have integrated S-Box with S-Axis, where users can come and store the seed phrase of
the wallet in the S-Box. So that means we are one of the very few solutions in the market where we
have a blockchain layered solution for users to come
and store the seed phrase. Because if I look at my competitors, in one case, they are handing over
the seed phrase of the users to a third party. In another case, I'm seeing a solution where if the
user has to store his seed phrase, he has to buy another card. So I think we are probably one of the innovative product solutions available in the market today as a hardware wallet,
where we give an option for the user to come and store the seed phrase in a blockchain layered storage solution.
That means he can store, view, and recover the seed phrase.
the seed phrase. So why recovery is so important? In case he loses the card, he goes to the mobile
So why recovery is so important?
application, trigger the disaster recovery, accesses and recovers his seed phrase, buys a
new card, puts the seed phrase and recovers all his assets. So that's why I would say that S-Axis
is a very unique value proposition as a hardware wallet. But we are also launching our B2B enterprise version called
S-Access Pro. That's going to come into the market hopefully by the month of June. Because
you can't just look at the Web3 market and say, I want to sell my product as just a hardware wallet,
right? Because at Sanity, we always believe that we want to become a digital bridge or a digital
gateway between the Web2 and the Web3 worlds. So that's why I want to sell my digital bridge or a digital gateway between the web 2 and the web 3 worlds.
So that's why I want to sell my S-axis, not to just do the hardware wallet holders or crypto holders. I'm going to sell this card to B2B version, like the enterprises of the world,
to data centers, companies where they have an existing 2FA authorization or a login credentials
using a username and password for
their employees or clients to come into their existing system. We are not going to touch their
system. They can have their existing system. But what we are going to do essentially is to replace
their login credentials using our S-Access card, which itself can be a very huge business.
Because as we all know, one of the
major points of vulnerability for hacks and breaches is happening at the time of the login,
in terms of access credentials, right? I mean, as per the recent statistics, the amount of money
that's going to be spent this year in 2025, for cyber hacks and breaches is going to be about,
you know, it's going to be a very, very big number.
If I remember the number correctly, it's going to be 10.5, sort of a trillion dollars is what
we are looking at. So if S-Axis is going to act as an instrument where users can use it as a
biometrics access to replace their existing login credentials of username and password,
we are creating a very, very huge use case out of
S-Axis also. So this is just one part of the story. And in terms of partnerships,
IDMI is one partnership because of the biometrics integration of what we are creating as a product
of S-Axis. And very soon, hopefully, I think by next week, we are also going to announce a
partnership with a large US company. Of course,
I can't disclose the name now because the PR release is not yet out. They have tokenized
almost $5 billion worth of assets as of today. So we are announcing again a major partnership
with this U.S. company for exclusively the domain of RWA tokenization, where they will bring the
technology, because they have SEC approvals.
So they are going to bring the technology and also all the approvals, regulatory approvals
they have in the US market.
We are going to create a model out of UAE and GCC.
So we are going to merge this together and create a financial bridge between the US market
and the GCC markets for RWA tokenization using this joint
venture. I wouldn't call it a joint venture. I would probably call it a joint collaboration,
which will be announced next week. So I think I sort of broadly touched some of the key
partnerships. What does this access do, both on the B2C side and the B2B side of the market? I'm
not sure if I answered all your questions,
but if I have been,
you can just remind me what I left to answer.
I think that was one of the most thorough answers
I've ever heard, Venkit.
So no, you answered that quite well.
And absolutely, I very much appreciate
the unique S-Box integration
that you are giving with the wallet,
which I think is,
you know, truly like it simplifies the process, right? Rather than having all,
you know, like using two different pathways. I think that's very wise. As long as I don't have
to chop off my finger and grow a new one and send that to Serenity right in order to get my s box phrases back no I'm joking
with the whole biometric stuff anyway but like I guess my next question is you know in terms of like
you mentioned RWA integration you know one of your use cases you have is Tiger Sky Tower and
you have is Tiger Sky Tower and you know just walk us through like what are some
you know what are some unique things that Serenity is doing with them.
Yeah sure so let me first I'm sure you know your audience would know that but
for the sake of clarity or information let me just start by explaining what is
actually RWA, right?
RWA tokenization is the tokenization of traditional financial assets on blockchain,
allowing fractional ownership and enhanced liquidity, right?
Because the core concept of RWA is fractional ownership, enhanced liquidity,
all happening on blockchain.
So people, you know, when people think about RWA,
what really comes to their mind is real estate, you know,
but that's really not the case, you see,
because I think we all have to start to understand that RWA is much, much larger than what we think it to be
because you can do RWA tokenization for treasury securities,
for bonds, for private or
public equities, for private debt, of course, real estate, commodities, especially gold and diamond,
etc. So you can do a variety of stuff using an RWA tokenization because just to give you a
number perspective, right, this is because the overall traditional market cap or market size of the traditional financial markets, which comprises of the global stock market, the bonds, the foreign exchange and derivatives, you know, that is one quadrillion dollars, which is equivalent to one thousand trillion dollars.
Right. So that's the market in front of us. Of course, blockchain
offers a lot of solutions in terms of when you try to tokenization, because it enables
fractional ownership, automation, transparency, security, immutability, and using the distributed
ledger technology, you can have atomic settlement where both the transactions on both sides, the buying and the selling, can happen instantly in an automated way.
And of course, the dividend distribution and the yield distribution can all be done in an automated manner without any human intervention.
I can keep talking about this because I'm so passionate about this whole RWA thing.
It's not just you, right? But I just want to do-
It's not just you, my friend. I completely agree. Like there's so many different ways in which we
can mix and match all kinds of, you know, product services, especially as you mentioned, private
debt, bonds, all of that. So no, no, please go ahead. Finish your thought. Yeah. Yeah. So,
so what I'm just trying to say here is to, we are addressing one quadrillion size of the market here.
And there's a lot of stuff to tokenize. Of course, a lot of exciting technologies are coming up.
Even a few days ago, I saw an announcement, of course, for RWA tokenization, still more than 60% of the RWA projects are getting tokenized on Ethereum as a layer one.
And I saw an announcement of an Ethereum L2 called Converge, which I think is going to really change the game to a much, much different level.
Because one of the things that was really lacking in that space was that the financial institutions are going to jump into this bandwagon of RWA, which so many people already are, right?
Like in the sense that if you see, I mean, BlackRock's product in that particular space, which they call it a BUIDL fund, which has an asset under management AUM of $1 billion already.
So all these financial institutions, they need a blockchain layer,
which is also private, right?
Because that's what they would need
because they would not want to put everything
in a very sort of open manner on blockchain,
which is a very fundamental feature of blockchain.
So we are going to make some compromises over there
if you have to really invite all these big guys
to come and be a part of the RWA domain. And that's why these layer twos are coming into the market, which will be more private, some sort of permission.
So the technology barriers are also getting crossed.
But now let me talk about the consumer, the marketplace.
And that is where I think, Serenity, we are going to be sort of trying to come up with a unique value proposition, which we call it RWS. So let me outline some of the common man's problem, right? Of course,
Black Rocks of the world are coming. They have a lot of money. They have their own agenda.
I always represent the common man, right? How do I position myself as a common man guy who want to
enter into the RWA space as a crypto holder or a normal guy. What are the challenges that we are seeing today?
The first challenge, I would say, is the legal ownership of an asset
is not really matching with the token ownership or the digital ownership.
Because if you go to the United States,
I'm not sure if this subject was discussed in the previous part of the AMA.
If you go to US,
any real estate that they tokenize, they are putting the real estate into a sort of SPV,
like a company, and they are actually tokenizing the shares of the company. And they are putting
a trustee mechanism who is going to protect the interest of the investors and also the guy who is selling his real estate.
You know, so the fundamental issue I see here, there will be a lack of trust,
especially when you go more towards the east.
People are not going to believe this model where they don't know what they are actually buying.
If they are buying an RWA token, yes, based upon a fractional ownership model, but if that is not going to be reflecting in the land registry or in the land department records, then they wouldn't an announcement that they are sort of going to digitize the title deeds,
put them into a blockchain registry,
and they are trying to create
a regulatory model
with some special license holders
coming into picture
where they are trying to align
the digital ownership
or the token ownership
along with the legal ownership
of the asset
that they are trying to tokenize.
I think that is very fundamental because what we need in terms of real use case adoption
is we need the trust from the investor.
Without a trust from the investor, nothing is going to fly.
You and me, we can keep talking for hours and we can keep doing a lot of AMAs.
But for you to have a sustained business model, you need to win the trust of the investor
for which you need to match the legal ownership with the token ownership. And some countries are
taking a lead into this, where they are creating the necessary regulatory models for this. Because
I can again tell you, you can talk about all the RWA tokenizations in the world,
You can talk about all the RWA tokenizations in the world, but if they are not going to be sort of put into a regulatory framework of a particular country where the assets are sitting, this is not going to be sustained in a midterm or a long term.
RWA technology collaboration partnership with this U.S. company.
At this moment, as we speak, we are having our meetings with the license holders in UAE,
with all the stakeholders, with the land department and other sort of entities,
to create that sort of a full-fledged regulatory and a compliance model,
where all these aspects are going to be addressed,
and we are going to create a 360 degree
ecosystem. So that's why I believe our RWS model is going to be very different because we are
addressing or at least we are trying to address all the practical aspects and the hitches which
we see as a for a common investor. And the other point is that,
okay, I bought a RWA token for an underlying asset.
I'm a primary investor.
What do I do with this token?
Can I sell it immediately?
Can I go to a secondary market?
So where is the secondary market?
Where are the exchanges?
Because let's not forget,
this is again, I want you sort of emphasize
in this AMA platform here. There are many projects because let's not forget, this is again, I want you sort of emphasize in this AMA platform here.
There are many projects in the market today, including UAE.
They are tokenizing RWA assert with their own utility token and they are creating a pump and a dump and they are disappearing.
This is not what RWA is all about.
You cannot tokenize an assert with your own projects utility token.
It is something like I go and take a building or a real estate sort of whatever asset in UAE for, let's say, $1 billion.
Actually, we are talking to a company to tokenize a $1 billion real estate asset.
If I'm going to go to the market and tell them, guys, I'm going to tokenize this asset using my own search token.
And then you come and buy my
search token. It doesn't make absolutely no sense. It's called a scam. You can call it what it is.
It's called a scam and a grift and a lot. Yeah. Plenty of that. So that's why I want the audience
to understand that you cannot do RWA tokenization with the project's utility token. You need a security
token for that. And the security token, which is coming under a regulatory framework, right?
And then there should be, there are exclusive exchanges, liquidity providers who are going
to let you to sell your security token at a secondary market. So, you know, there's a lot of hype and myth and all that,
but I really wish both the investors and the asset holders,
they understand all these things.
Otherwise, this whole thing will become, as you said, you know,
I mean, we don't want it to be a kind of another scam scenario
because we are really having a good concept here
with a lot of technology and investments going into it.
But we have to do it in the right way so that we are really able to address this one quadrillion
market cap of an asset, right? Put it under a regulatory model, create a security token,
do all the compliances as what is needed and what is required, create a secondary market
and make everybody happy, make the asset holder happy, make the investor happy,
make the regulatory body happy because when he's going to sell a property in Dubai, they have a
transfer fee. But that happens only once. But if you're creating a fractional ownership and if
you're letting the security token to trade on every transaction, the regulatory authority can
make money. Right. So that means the real estate owner is happy,
investor is happy, regulatory body is happy.
You put it under a regulatory framework.
That is where you will really achieve
a decent slice of what you deserve
out of that one quadrillion.
Even if you achieve 1%,
we are still talking about 1 trillion, right?
So these are some of the things that Sanity is going to be addressing.
Of course, I'm just not talking.
We have to walk the talk, but at least we have a roadmap.
And within the next four to six months, we will have a full-fledged pilot project, which
is addressing all these aspects of what I mentioned now in terms of ownership, regulatory,
security token, we are
going to address as much of these concerns as possible and launch one good pilot project where
people can see that this is something really real, which is addressing all their issues, right? So
that's what we are trying to do. And hopefully we'll be able to launch this first pilot project
be able to launch this first pilot project within the next four months and that's what we are working
within the next four months. And that's what we are working upon.
upon. Amazing. Definitely keep us posted and I really believe that you're solving a market
need here. The whole land registry coming onto the blockchain in the UAE is I think also a very
significant development in the marketplace. And what you
mentioned at the very beginning of your share there, which was building trust with investors,
right? Like we can talk all day about RWAs at the end of the day, if the title deed has not
actually properly changed, if the taxes aren't properly paid off and so on. And as you were saying,
make all the different bodies,
the regulatory body,
the actual seller of the asset happy.
I think all of these aspects are so critical and vital.
So kudos to you guys.
I think you're doing a phenomenal job.
The last thought I'll share here is that I think that the promise of our industry,
blockchain, cryptocurrencies, you know, all of this, is this future of radical transparency
and radical trustability, right?
And so I think that from that perspective, developing a L2, you know,
a dedicated private chain, I think you guys are doing something excellent. And I look forward to,
yeah, working with you guys, learning more. Cade, over back to you, my friend.
Yeah, yeah, great stuff here. Noah, did you want to jump in?
Yeah, One second.
I guess I was unmuted.
Yeah, so something was mentioned earlier about storing private seats, private keys on a blockchain.
Is this a proprietary blockchain or is it an Ethereum?
Can you dive into that a bit deeper, please? We are not storing the private key.
The private key is stored on the card itself.
We are storing the seed phrase of the wallet.
It's a blockchain layered solution where we have, we do not have our own layer one for that.
We are using a layer one called secret network.
And there, there's a military grade encryption which is deployed.
And you under their layer one, we are having a blockchain layer
and the seed phrase is getting stored.
And then, of course, we also have...
Let me explain this here.
So there's an NFT sharding mechanism.
What happens here really is that
when we are going to go and store the seed phrase,
let's say, in the smart contract of the layer one,
there is a viewing key which is getting created
to the smart contract of the layer one. There is a viewing key which is getting created to the smart contract.
First, what we do is we encrypt the viewing key,
and then we convert this viewing key into an NFT.
Because that's where we really bring the concept of NFT,
which is a part of our pending patent in the US patent office.
And then this NFT, it's getting sharded into three pieces. And whenever
you want to recover your seed phrase or whatever data that is stored in our blockchain layer,
you need two out of the three shards. And then you put two out of the three shards,
you reconstitute the viewing key. And with that, you go and access the data or recover the data which is stored with us.
So basically, what we are having is a smart contract storage on chain, the viewing key, which is encrypted, which is getting converted into an NFT, which is getting sharded into three pieces.
And you need two out of the three to reconstitute the key and then go and access or recover your data.
So this is how the whole sort of process happens,
which I think is a part of our pending pattern.
So I'm spilling a lot of secret sources here,
but broadly that's how this whole storage layer is working.
I understand.
I have used SilentSwap, which also utilizes secret network. I wasn't aware that they were capable of securing private seeds or seed phrases rather.
mechanism but the NFT sharding and all it happens based on triplets which is
secret some me sharding mechanism so we are using them only as a layer one for
the storage of the smart contract but rest all is being designed under our own
pending patent I got you and the card is used you can use it globally or is it
certain jurisdictions where it's acceptable no this is not a payment card
right because then of course we are this is not a payment card, right? Because then, of course,
we are going to launch a payment card very soon.
So if you,
because one of the main things of this card is
it's not, you do not do any swaps.
So, and it's not going to be used as a payment card.
So it's, so basically you can store,
you can send and receive.
So to answer your question,
there is no any sort of a regulatory restrictions
for this card.
You can use it globally.
Oh, it's P2p yeah because it's a hardware yeah it's a hardware wallet it's not a payment
card or we are not doing any swap per se yeah what's the advantage of just having a physical
hardware wallet that you can make transactions with as opposed to doing it from
your phone? No, it's just because it's an off-chain solution because like you might have seen Ledger
and other players in the market, right? They are all a hardware wallet, right? So basically,
it's yet another hardware wallet, but as I explained, it has biometrics, it has seed phrase
storage solution, et cetera, et cetera. So this particular position, under that domain, we position it as clearly as a hardware wallet,
which is an off-chain wallet, which is much more secure than your on-chain wallets.
I understand. It's an off-chain wallet. So where is the crypto being stored?
Yeah. So, of course, we have a private key which is
getting stored in the card itself which I explained got it it's like it's like
any other hardware wallet it's like any like ledger or treasure it's the private
keys on the device you need a password in that case in those cases are in your
case biometrics in order to access the the key and be able to transact with your funds on chain.
Yeah, exactly.
I understand.
And then what ecosystems do you guys support?
Is it just EVM?
Yeah, it is EVM.
We are supporting EVM.
Okay, just EVM.
And I'm sure that includes most of the layer twos as well.
Yeah, that's what I mentioned.
As of now, to what I remember, we can accommodate up to 65 different sort of things,
but that's also expanding.
But you're right, it's all coming under EVM network.
Understood.
And so you guys find the card to be a safer solution than, let's say, a Ledger or Trezor,
or rather a phone wallet just because
it requires more than a passcode it also requires biometrics sure that's the key differentiator
because uh here the accesses can happen only through biometrics so that means that is making
it much more safe and secure and as you mentioned as your colleague mentioned you know we are also
giving this storage option where the
seed trace can be stored in our integrated storage layer of S-Box. Understood. You know, I guess one
of the, and please, please correct me if I'm wrong or if I'm missing something, I guess one of the
concerns I would have is if, you know, I found myself or someone finds himself in a, let's say, in the wrong country's customs,
or let's say they're in a situation where they're being coerced.
You could technically overpower that person and you could take the card or whatever and
hold it up against their eye and you have access to their funds.
Am I missing something here?
No, of course, this is biometrics, so it's not iris scan.
But of course, yeah is biometrics. So it's not iris scan. But of course, yeah,
there are two layers. Finger scan. Biometrics can be a number of things. Yeah, yeah. There are two
layers of access. One is the biometrics validation. And there is also a pin which you need to enter.
Unless, okay, we can say that you can put a gun on their head and say, give me your pin.
But that's a different story. But no, no, no, I agree with you. I didn't realize that you can put a gun on their head and say, give me your pin. But that's a different story.
No, no, no.
I agree with you.
I didn't realize that you need biometrics and you also need a physical pin. I mostly missed that earlier.
Okay, very cool.
All the questions, I mean, when is this going to be available?
No, no, it's already available in the market.
We are selling it.
It was launched in Dubai in the month of March.
It's already selling in the
market and we are going to very soon get it listed in Amazon and Best Buy and all these
online platforms. But yeah, we have slowly started to sell them in the market. We are trying to work
out the logistics and stuff like that and e-commerce platforms. But to answer your question,
it's already available in the market. You can go to our website. There is a buying page as well in
our website. Yeah, I was going to say, is there a a buying page as well in our website.
Yeah, I was going to say, is there a way to buy directly from you guys?
I know a lot of security purists don't like to buy things from Amazon or Best Buy,
but secondhand merchants.
Me personally, I will never buy a Ledger or a Trezor off of Amazon.
I recommend no one else does the same.
You should order directly from the manufacturer.
No, no, we do have a sort of a separate page for that in our website and in fact again that's a different story for the users who may want to buy this using our paying using our search we are giving them a
very special discount but you're right we always are trying to encourage and entertain users to come and buy through our own website awesome what's what's the cost
the the retail price is $80 $80 it's a good price yeah I was just in Dubai I should have I should
have known about you guys I would have loved to get my hands on one of those yeah you should you
should because it's very user-friendly and generally know, I'm not going to talk about my competitors,
but most of them, it's almost impossible to really use it, right?
I mean, but otherwise we have made it as simple as it can be because we always put ourselves
as a normal consumer, right?
So that's why the user experience is quite simple and it's quite friendly.
That's what I would say.
So you should really try one card.
Is it air gapped? Yeah.
Okay, so it's like a SafePal in terms of that. So basically you can use it as a normal hardware
wallet as well. Do you guys have any security features or any advantages from that perspective over Ledger or Trezor or SafePal?
Not so different from what I've already mentioned.
That's whatever I've mentioned is what I could think of at the moment.
Cool.
Cool.
That's all the questions for me.
Very nice.
Very nice.
Yeah, I was actually just to zoom out a little bit on where you kind of see if you could speak on this more.
You've kind of alluded to it already a little bit, but if you could speak on sort of the intersection specifically of D-PIN or decentralized fiscal infrastructure networks and the RWA world, where they're headed and how you guys are positioning yourself.
We have a lot of people who tune into like the D-PIN spaces and RWA spaces.
So I feel like the intersection topic is pretty interesting to them. Yeah, that's true. Because you see,
you know, because generally in spaces like this, Deepin seems to be a very boring, boring subject,
right? I mean, although I have a lot of interest and I'm very passionate about Deepin as much as
about RWA and stuff like that, because Deepin is more
infrastructure and people don't want to talk about it, right? Whereas RWA is, at the end of the day,
people want to see how they can make money out of something, right? So RWA is money, you make
money out of money. But, you know, but we have to really sort of remember the fundamentals of
everything, because why Serenity is also focusing on Deepin,
in fact, we are doing a lot of Deepin initiatives of India, and we are again going to announce a
major partnership for a huge data center player who have more than 300 data centers across the
globe, is because one of the major things that we see in the market, they talk about all the technology, all the products.
But finally, if you go and investigate everything, net result, it is going, it's getting stored
in an Amazon or a Google or a third party server.
Right.
So that is, so again, it's, are we really looking at a kind of a mirage where we talk
about all the decentralization of the world and then you do everything and you go and hand it over to a centralized service layer?
So that is why Deepin is fundamentally still very important.
Of course, it requires a lot of investment.
It's a lot of capex expenses in terms of capital expenses, although you can try to minimize it by doing some major partnerships.
At Serenity, what we are trying to do
while we are having the biometrics card,
while we are having the storage solution,
while we are navigating into the RWA space
addressing the consumers and the investors' concerns,
we are also trying to deploy anything and everything we do
under our own deep-in infrastructure.
And even if you are creating server space, our B2B enterprise customers or, I mean,
corporations who are going to deal with us, they can lease their own server space within
a certain geographical jurisdiction, right?
So that is why for us, while we are doing all the market related stuff in terms
of storage, survivability, biometrics, RWA, everything for us, the underlying layer is going
to be our own deep in infrastructure, which is why for us, the sort of the basic element of
deploying everything using our DPN is very fundamental to whatever we do at all times.
Love that.
Yeah, I love that explanation there as well.
And it is interesting,
like a lot of people have said
that the DPN world is not as interesting,
but we found some interest actually with the DPN world.
I think it's fun because, you know,
with our base and DPN, it's fun because with Arbaze and Deepin,
it's slightly less smoke and mirrors
than maybe something like MemeCoins, where
it's pretty much just living on the timeline.
And I certainly find that a really
interesting one. Also, I was going to say, and I'm
happy to pass the mic back to Prometheus, if he's
got some other thoughts as well, but I know
you guys recently had the BingX listing,
and that's a pretty major step.
Just speak a little bit more about this, and what it means for the project's exposure,
as well as the significance of, you know, there's a trading competition that's tied to this as well, I believe.
Yeah, so, you know, we are already listed at Gate and MEXC and also in Bitpanda, which is based in Austria, in Europe.
in Europe. And today we got listed in Bing X. Of course, you know, we keep doing these listings
And today we got listed in Bing X.
because when we go to those new markets, it gets us new communities, new users, new countries.
So we always keep doing this. So that way for us, these steps are quite strategically important
because we have to keep expanding our user base. And also I could say that, you know,
with the markets trying to, you know, with the markets trying to look,
you know, sort of looking more promising, we are targeting some really some, I would say,
tier one listings in the coming months or so. So I can simply put, I can say that we are sort of
warming up the token now so that we are getting prepared for some major tier one listings in the
next whatever months to come.
Very nice. All right. I like that.
And then also, I would like, if you could also zoom in a little bit more on biometric authentication and the NFT sharding for data survivability.
It's pretty unique.
If you could explain a little bit more on the tech side
of things, how it works to secure both digital identities as well as the words escape me. But
if you could zoom in a little bit more on that side of things. So, of course, I did talk about,
you know, I think I did mention how this whole thing is working in terms of, you know,
the viewing key, getting converted into NFT and getting sharded, working in terms of, you know, the viewing key, getting
converted into NFT and getting sharded, etc. But again, you know, I can't go too much into the
details of that because those are all our kind of secret sources, which is a part of a sort of a
pending patent application. Then I can't do a public disclosure of every part of the tech that
we do there unless the patent is really approved. But overall, what I can say is that when we started the project, we looked at it in a very
simple manner in terms of an inheritance mechanism, right? So we thought, actually,
when whole sanity was conceptualized, we were only looking at two problems.
Most of the crypto wallet holders, they do not have, they don't know how to store the seed phrase, right? This was
a very real problem. And they didn't know what would happen to their assets, God forbid, if
something happens to them, who is going to take it over. So we came up fundamentally with a product
where people can store the seed phrase, and they can, based upon inheritance protocol, they can
pass the access to the asset to one inheritor. That is how the whole project was started.
But then we said, why only the seed phrase?
Because people should be able to store any form of a digital data,
which is like, it could be a text file, video file, audio file, doc file, or whatever.
And that is where we really dive into these decentralized storage solutions.
Because one of the major issues today
is, and then again, when you are storing data, especially for the businesses, I'm going a bit
technical here, you need a digital repository, because you have to have indexing of data,
because when you come to businesses, they store data, not only for the sake of preserving the
data, they should be able to monetize the data.
Right. Otherwise, what's the point of storing the data if you are not able to monetize the data
for which you need a digital repository with indexing and metadata?
For example, let me just give an example.
You're going to a health sector company or a medical.
OK, let me give this example of a medical university.
We are doing a project for a medical university in UK. And they said, guys, we have 100 years of journals of data with us.
We want to digitize it, put it on your solution and the blockchain and create a digital repository
and monetize it to an extent to say, at the click of the button, they want to know how many people about the age of 25
died out of malaria in a particular location in United Kingdom. So all these kinds of things,
you need to be able to do it at a click of a button using indexing and metadata.
But don't forget, the data is stored in blockchain in an encrypted manner.
So indexing, you will have to decrypt the data, which is already encrypted on a temporary basis.
And once the indexing is over, you have to put it back in an encrypted format.
So from outside, it looks because people are demanding a lot, you see, because one basic thing about technology, when they are already using something, they are not going to shift to something else unless there is a layer of trust.
And if the new product that you are offering is at least five times better than the old product that they are using.
Right. This is why when we talk about all these blockchain solutions of deep end storage, whatever, whatever, why there is still no global adoption?
People are staying at the level of only concepts.
How many people have really adopted the blockchain technology,
let's say for a health sector, let's say for a medical insurance or an insurance company or a private wealth management,
boutique wealth management company?
You can really sort of number them.
So in terms of real world adoption, people are, of course, there's an element of trust,
but they are also there. They have a lot of requirements which are getting fulfilled.
But blockchain has its own limitations because when the data is stored in an encrypted format,
how are you going to do indexing and creating a metadata and then
be able to access it and put it back into an encrypted format where it used to be before.
So we are trying to address all these things in a very practical manner using our patent
pending technology.
And on top, why we brought in biometrics.
You know, I realized I can go to meetings and sit and talk in front of the guys for hours and hours to say blockchain.
This is working like this is good.
He said, I want to see something.
What do I see here?
I don't see anything here.
I don't know where is your data stored, right?
So that is why for me, the biometrics card is acting as a key, as a door opener, because
when you're giving him a card and you tell him that only when you tap the card, everything
works, he believes that he's in control of the situation.
I don't know if I'm clear enough in what I'm trying to say.
It looks a bit jokey, but this is really the truth of the consumer psychology.
I have been to meetings where I've met enterprises and corporations
where I try to explain them whenever about blockchain storage
or decentralized storage.
They don't want to get it or they don't get it.
The moment I tell them it is stored somewhere,
but you have this card, you give it to all your clients and employees
and you tap it, then everything works.
They say, okay, we are OK.
So those are the kind of things that we are addressing in terms of why we are bringing
biometrics technology, because you are giving something which they can feel it and touch
And they think that they are in control of the situation.
So they start to believe the product.
And then when you are going into a real world adoption of storing the data, as I said, there is no point of storing the data if they are not able to index it, have a
metadata repository to monetize it. So it looks very sort of, you know, I can say that we have a
blockchain decentralized solution. We have biometrics and all that. But there's a lot of work behind it. There is a lot of concept behind it.
And finally, we have to walk the talk and get real customers and real use case from the real world.
Right. And that's what we are aspiring to do. And that's what we are really that's what I believe
that projects like Serenity. I've been to many AMAs in the past as well. I keep doing a lot of
AMAs. I always tell them, guys, we can be from the best of the blockchain world.
We can have the best technology and the best solution.
But if you can't sell your technology, if you don't have customers, then nothing makes sense.
Right?
So that is the fundamental thing of Sanity is we try to walk the talk. We understand the consumer and the customer's issues, where it is lacking, where blockchain is lacking.
We try to cover those limitations and gaps and try to as much as we can.
Of course, nothing is ideal.
Nothing is perfect.
We are trying to give them a solution which is much more convincing than any other blockchain solution for him to be able to be convinced
to use it.
Love that breakdown there.
And I also saw Prometheus's hand shot up a couple of minutes ago, so I want to go back
to him.
Hey, no, excellent discussion today.
And thank you so much Venkat for your thoughtful
insights as well as you know your detailed descriptions. It's been a very
insightful space for me for sure. I've just been checking out your white paper
and you know it's very user friendly, let's put it that way.
There's a lot more painful white papers I've read over the years. But no, it's very straightforward, clear. You guys identify market needs, Serenity's Edge,
market size, market position, and all that. Just going a little bit for all the crypto
people here into the tokenomics here. So what percentage of the SERSH token, you know, is in the hands of investors, what
percentage, you know, for potential, you know, retail and, you know, market, general marketplace.
I know that you guys are already 38% of the way in terms of issuance.
So that's quite significant.
Would love to hear a little bit more on the tokenomics
and how we can all participate in your economy.
So I'm happy that you have done some groundwork
because you had my circulating supply almost accurate, right?
I'm happy because I don't see that many people who take care of that kind of minute details.
You're right.
So our total supply, when we started, we started with 100 million.
And we have burned almost 700K tokens as of now, if I'm remembering correctly.
I think our current supply stands at about 99.3 million.
I hope I'm not making a mistake there.
And almost 30, near to 38 million is out in the market.
So the balance is sort of had to come out into the market.
sort of had to come out into the market.
But again, you know, a sizable portion of the balance,
I would say 62% is with the team and the seed investors.
In fact, for the team, a couple of months ago,
we made an announcement.
We even extended the cliff by another six months
to boost the confidence because at that time,
we were in a little bit of a
bearish market. So we always make sure that out of the balance 62%, whatever is held by the
seed investors and by the team, they are rested for a much longer period because we believe in
the project. And that's why even for the balance 62 percent whatever is going to come into the
circulating supply it will come in a very very restricted manner because we always believe in a
sort of uh restricted tokenomics that's how we started and that's how we want to sort of continue
our philosophy awesome yeah i um i think that's a wise way to go because when you're a new token and you're just
solving this kind of relatively niche, but also very scalable industry, I think that's the wise
approach to have that long-term holding. Would love to know a little bit more. You mentioned in terms of like,
there will be additional, you know, digital services that you guys are going to add
to your ecosystem. I noticed that in Q4, you talk about, you know, AI agent integration,
you know, would love to hear about some of your, you know, upcoming additional products and services
that you're going to add. Yeah, true. So two major things, you know, you will see that we are working
upon one, you're right, we are working on the AI agent. And also, the one of the things which I
would like to mention for the sake of the audience here is we are really working on quantum encryption, which is it's
going to be a massive subject because we strongly believe that any new solution which is coming in
the market, if it is not quantum resilient, it's not going to be a lot sort of a midterm or a
long term solution. So apart from biometrics, which is a kind of a more of a hardware encryption, we are also working on quantum post hybrid encryption, which is going to be a part of our product ecosystem, which will make our product offering extremely and uniquely value proposition.
Because we are thinking very much ahead, right?
This is because we have to create a product solution, which is quantum resilient. That's point number one. And AA agents, because you see the way we
are getting into the market, like we are navigating the space of health sector, private wealth
management, insurance companies with our storage solution. So we need to have the AA agents because
they are going to do a lot of job in the future and play a very, very critical role. But we are also very much cognizant of the fact that when the more and more AI that we are trying to get into our solutions,
especially for the enterprise customers, we want the AI to be governed.
You know, that is one of the things that people are yet to sort of recognize and acknowledge that if you're trying to bring AI into our solutions, especially the enterprise solutions, you need to make sure that your AI has a governance layer.
We are also trying to inculcate a governance layer for AI, which is going to be quite unique.
And we are also trying to get into the subject of quantum post hybrid encryption models to be incorporated in our product solutions.
So that that is also a very innovative feature that will be quantum resilient as well.
So these are the two major points, I would say, a governed AI and quantum resilience.
These are the two things which I can broadly touch base,
which I believe are going to be quite unique.
Amazing.
Yeah, I'm very serious on that note as well.
When it comes to quantum encryption,
the power of decrypting compute
that quantum computing is bringing to the marketplace,
it's really going to battle test a lot of blockchains.
So I'm glad that, you know, as a founder,
you're very cognizant about this future reality.
Well, Kate, you know, those are my questions for the moment.
I think this is a phenomenal project.
We've seen a lot of projects here over the years.
You know, I definitely want to find out more I think this is a phenomenal project. We've seen a lot of projects here over the years.
I definitely want to find out more and see different ways in which we can collaborate
Venkat because I think this is a very needed solution.
There's so many hundreds of millions of people have yet to come on to on-chain literally
and to have a secure on-chain solution like what you guys are offering here, integrating with RWA,
ensuring validity and all those things, those things very much excite me. I've been looking for
solutions like this when consulting clients and working with investors and whatnot.
So yeah, excellent product and answers today. Cade, over back to you, my friend.
Excellent product and answers today.
Cade, over back to you, my friend.
Yeah, totally.
Great questions here, for sure.
I know we only have a couple minutes left here.
But for people who are like, okay, pretty cool, interesting stuff.
I want to check it out.
What do those steps look like?
Actually, step by step for someone who wants to get involved in the community or whatever side of the company that they find interesting to them?
the community or whatever side of the company that they find interesting to you to them yeah
Yeah.
so i mean you know of course sanity i think um uh our website is s.technology please go into our
website even if you want to know more about us buy any of our products and we have all types of
social media like sanity s tech is our twitter we are in twitter we are in discord we are in
telegram follow us on all the socials.
And as we mentioned in the beginning of the conversation, today we got listed in Bing X and we have a trading competition which is going on in Bing X for the next 10 days.
So I'm not going to give any financial advice here, but search token, I believe I talked
about it, it's deflationary, it has its own utility backed up by a product and services, et cetera.
So I sincerely wish that your audience can follow us, follow our journey and also follow our token growth path.
Solid, solid. Also, kind of curious on your journey for starting this company out and anything you've learned anywhere from previous cycles, but also in this last few months, what kind of things you picked up?
This market's been pretty unforgiving for a lot of crypto traders and stuff like that.
So I know for them, it's been a different cycle than others in the past.
It's been a different cycle than others in the past.
But I would love to know some of the things you picked up along the way.
First, I have to tell you, I'm not a crypto investor because I came in from a typical
web to world.
But I would still want to answer your question because, you know, I may not be a crypto investor
to understand what's happening in the market, right?
I think I've been telling this to my friends and colleagues and all that.
I told them, guys, your previous concept of bull run has changed for good.
You see, don't expect any bull run to be same like what you have seen before, because now the
institutional investors have come in, the ETFs have come in, and they are going to pull the
strings to a much greater extent. So take a measured approach, invest on the right things.
But please also understand that the dynamics of this game is changing
because a lot of institutional investors are jumping in
and they are going to look at things in a very different way
and they have a lot of money power.
So as a retail investor, the outlook has to be a little bit more measured,
more cautious and more sort of informative.
I think the speculative game is still very much there,
but the dynamics and the landscape,
in my opinion, of course, it's my personal opinion.
I'm not going to give advice to anybody on this.
In my personal opinion, the landscape has changed a lot
and it has changed for good.
So people have to retune or retest,
I mean, reset their mindset to be a good and profitable
investor in this space because many institutional investors have jumped in and they are pulling
the strings.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Great thoughts there.
And I appreciate that perspective here as well.
Look, I know we're at the top of the hour.
So Noah, unless you have any final thoughts or just got an alarm uh any last thoughts or
questions then we can turn it over to him for any final things he wants to leave with the audience
not yeah nothing for me i mean yeah all right sorry go ahead no no you go ahead go ahead please
oh no no i'm saying nothing for me i think it's cool product. You did say that it's not meant to be P2B, but it has a chip though, right?
So does that mean that we can spend...
It has the NFC chip, yeah.
So does that mean that eventually we will be able to spend crypto at merchants?
Yes, we are going to launch a payment card,
but that will be a separate card which will be different from the current S-axis. But yes, we are going to launch a payment card, but that will be a separate card
which will be different from the current S-axis.
But yes, we are going to launch a payment card, yeah.
Cool. Awesome.
Well, I'm looking forward to getting my hands on one.
I like playing around with new tech.
Maybe I'll do a product review as well.
Sure, sure.
Beautiful.
And then if there's any final thoughts you have
there's any final thoughts you have you want to leave the audience with things
that you want to leave the audience with,
it's been an epic conversation.
been an epic conversation I really appreciate coming coming on okay guys
I really appreciate you coming on.
thank you for having me today I think it was no the questions were really great
I love the energy so again thank you for this opportunity and please do follow us
in visit our website and follow all our socials and if you're interested we have
this trading competition going on in BingX.
At least go and see
what it really offers.
Amazing.
All right.
Well, everyone,
I appreciate you coming through
and listening.
I hope you enjoyed the conversation
as much as I did.
If you did,
definitely check out Serenity.
Give them a follow.
Check out the things they're up to.
And definitely follow Moby,
Prometheus up here.
And have an amazing rest of your Friday
catch you guys all in the next space for stream take care everybody thank you
