Hey guys, just doing a mic check testing testing
Just give me a few just give me a minute or two just waiting for the other speakers to come on in
Hey, oh Leonard are you able to hear me testing testing? Yes, I can hear you. Can you hear me?
Yeah, you're good, man. You're good
Profile if they can be co-host we're just waiting on two more people for the speaker panel. We can get started
Timmy if you want to come on up man, we'd love to have you as well brother tender and Timmy
Just sent you an invite to speak brother
Shimon you everybody hear me brother
What's happening people how the hell are we
What going on man, is anyone else?
Joining on your side is just gonna be you today for the gym
I'm just asking panda now, but for now, it looks like it might just be me. Let me just
Let's let's just give two minutes just to let people come in and I'm gonna just share this with the community now
So I get some of our guys to join as well
Okay, no problem and I'll go ahead and send you co-host. Yeah. Okay, mate. Yeah
Linard I also sent the web 3 off profile co-host if if they'd like to come up
I don't know if there's anyone on the other side. I think
What's the purpose of the co-host option again
You can add other people and you can remove people anything like that I think it's fine it's
You guys can just host it
Yeah, one second I'm just gonna spread this out let's let people join so so where you're from
Because Bitcoin and you you King you also King wabi. Yeah
Yeah, man. Yeah, this is this is King wabi speaking through the because Bitcoin profile. Yeah
Just looking now. I'm just looking at because Bitcoin. So so what is this then a financial news analyst? Okay
Yeah, I like that bro. I like that bro
Yeah, so like like what we do we essentially cover all global financial markets
yeah, we've had people from all across the digital asset space from
Projects that are already out projects that are raising money projects in the concept stage
Community members traders you name it we've had it VCs
But same thing goes for traditional markets. We've had hedge fund managers
financial analysts from like CNBC CNN you name it we've had it and
Yeah, we're about six months old and we do spaces and YouTube content and we recently got done with
Bitcoin Miami Week and we went to a few events
for those couple of days and
Yeah, we we shot some pretty good content there, man. So thanks for showing up man
I've been following you guys at the gym hunters
for a minute now, brother
Yeah, anytime bro. Any time it'll be good to connect with you as well
We do a similar sort of thing in some respects and we are more
On connecting with people on a one-to-one level
Do you know how a lot of Twitter accounts and a lot of people they are sort of like if you can imagine
They're sitting there with a with a microphone and they're amplifying what they think but they're not really
listening to what anyone else is saying and
We we kind of I'm not saying you do that back by the way
We we kind of go more on a one-to-one level. We sort of interact with our followers and
telegram community is where it's all happening and we're sort of like a family and we support each other in every aspect of
Of life really not just with trading because as you know
This game is takes a toll on your mental health
I was just talking about so I've made a tick-tock account about five months ago
I love to tick-tock because it say I make a video on Twitter then it gets within three weeks. It's gone
Disappeared nobody can really find it again. It's down the list
Whereas on tick-tock everything's kept quite organized. You can find all the content
So I've been talking about how at 25 years old your brain stops developing
That's where you peak, but you still have to get experience
So ten years after 25, so you look at like 20 to sort of 35 is where you're
So we sort of talk about how to improve on a self
Improvement level how to create value how to get fit. It's pretty basic stuff if one is for you
So it's not just the investment side that we're doing. It's also
How to become the best version of yourself
Optimize your focus and resources. I know it sounds very boring guys
Just let me ask you a question guys as I'm talking about this now. Are you are you switching off?
Are you sorry that this kind of oh god, or do you understand it?
Do you agree with you agree with me because I'm trying to get trying to get a bit of a fucking pulse on this because I find
That a lot of normal people are not interested, but I find that the higher value people can tap into this
I think they're like, yeah, yeah, and they're bouncing off me. Do you know I mean?
Yeah, I'm listening to you a lot in clear man, I think I think tick-tock is one of those things that haven't really been
Flushed out yet in the community aspect of crypto
I think you know some people at the current moment think of tick-tock is oh that was just something
That was spread across in the borough and as far as crypto goes like oh, here's the latest like you know
Thousand acts on on Binance more chain, right? They don't really find it as an
No, you're right some respects. There are some guys doing some good stuff
Our main platform is telegram
That's where our main community is and we are really close
I don't see any communities like what we've got or what we've built. So we started in
So one of the oldest communities in crypto and a lot of the guys have known each other now for three or four years
And every single day people are connecting and it's like morning. How are you today blah blah blah?
and that kind of gives you a nice perspective as well because you've got a sort of family and
It really helps on the journey to be around
Pushing towards whatever their goals are sharing a purpose with other people all of this is amazing
And I think this is the foundation on what?
Everything else is built on and if you get that right then whatever you're doing listen
Whatever the narrative is, you know yourself me and Panda and Indiana
We're talking about how the narratives in crypto change every single fucking day, don't they they change every fucking day
So we can see we can see you now and be like talking about whatever the narrative is now
but tomorrow it'll be something different so and
Narratives come and go but your mindset the goals the vision the purpose that stays
So yeah, I mean, I'm all for talking about the mindset
Sorry, the narrative and identifying the projects, but it's all very short term
Isn't it in the lungs in the scheme of things? That's all very short term and
That just that comes and goes
But what what we rarely focus on is building a mindset and I don't see that many people doing it
And if I'm honest with you now, I don't think it's a hot topic
I do think people switch off because as you said
What they want to see is as the next 100x as quick money
And I think I think really
I see a lot of people doing that they sort of
Talk about 100x and try and lure you in and then once they get you they try and educate you but I understand
I mean i've i've been there. I was a fucking vegan, you know back in 2018 17
I was trading all the fucking shit coins. I thought I was fucking wolf of wolves
Was you around back in 2018?
Yeah, I got it in December of 2017
My first exposure to communities was in telegram
so I I remember like all the tickers from cryptopia and uh
Kucoin and all those things and you know, uh, the reason why I chose the name king wabi
Um is because of uh, if you remember ian belina, right? That was one of his uh gems
And I got into wabi in february of 2018 and it just had this nasty like 85 percent pump
Within a few hours and you know, it was one of my first few all coin trades
and um hit a few bangers after that hit uh,
One chain and ontology and you know, I thought it was a genius
Um until I round tripped all of that later on in the year
Um, so I decided to go by king wabi and all that stuff
Um given that wabi was like, you know, my first taste of uh, what this market had to offer
As far as upside goes well, then I quickly learned that it also has downside, right?
Yeah, man, uh got into some communities and cosmos
Pretty early on like I remember being in that telegram chat
When it had less than a thousand people dudes less than 1 000 people
Because that was so like early, um, you know, I I found out about projects like uh matic
I discovered that bnb was built on tender myth
Um found out about thor chain relatively early after it launched on the binance decks
Uh found out about terra and things of the like
Um interoperability was like, you know, one of my go-to narratives back in 2018
I thought that if this thing comes to fruition, it's going to be huge for the industry, right?
And that that's eventually what happens, right? And what I noticed is as far as like
usually whatever the narrative is for the last 25 percent
That's what ends up carrying the narrative throughout the the cycle after right? So in late 2013, right?
We had alternative payment options go crazy, right?
And then you had things like manero xrp dash litecoin
um ethereum even right take over the uh
Narrative of the next cycle and ethereum right, you know back when it was released in 2016 2017
It was thought of it was thought of essentially this token that
Was used for icos you would send your eth to a pool and then you would you would receive an erc 20 that would
Essentially to like a hundred x almost overnight, right?
Um, of course, it was thought of like this supercomputer and decentralized finance
But really that didn't really kick off until
Yeah until those last icos right in 2017 was like zrx with auger, right?
Gall never took off. Unfortunately same thing with auger. Um, most people wouldn't remember those
but um and even in 2017 man, uh
The things that kicked off that last quarter or so were like the quote unquote eth killers, right? Your your icons aons
Dragon chain, right and then the next cycle after that you had the layer ones kick off, right?
And layer one was a term that was branded with the with these icos, right?
Terra salona avax. They all were raising money that bear market in 2018. So
Let me ask you this quickly and
What was the last narrative then in the last bull market I would say it was game five metaverse
I mean that was sort of as the last bull market was coming to a sort of end
Metaverse and game five kind of came in late 2020
And what was basically the main theme in 2000 the the later half
2021 so would you agree that or or are you thinking something else was the was the main narrative in the last bull market?
Because what i'm saying is
Um, or are you saying that the last narrative in the bear market is what is the narrative in the bull market?
Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's usually like
What's going on like towards the end of the bull and beginning of the bear, right?
So i'm i'm big on on uh on plat more like platforms are going to be hosting things. Um
Is panda speaker by the way on your end because it shows that he's a speaker but he's off mute
Is he showing as a speaker on your end brother? Yeah, so yes
Problems with his internet sometimes. So I think he's disconnected. He was a speaker and now he's now he's disconnected
And he's trying to reconnect. So
Yeah, i'm sure i'm sure he'll sort it out. But yeah, I mean
I I like the game fly stuff because I was a gamer
Growing up. I was a massive gamer
And also I find it entertaining in the last bull market
We have this defy stage where it was just farming projects staking
And every single fucking project was just farming and staking and defy and honestly
It is the most boring shit
Going and I know not everyone's gonna
Agree with me there, but I just find staking and farming and defy the most boring shit going. I love trading
I absolutely am obsessed with trading building a mindset watching the market
Like perfecting the art. It's an art. It's an art and you have to watch what's going on and
You you rarely need to focus on just that if you want to master trading
You can't really be doing other stuff
You you need to be all in on whatever you're you're doing on with with that
So i've uh, i've killed it this this bear market
What I did was is I I was in stables from the bull run
And I just waited and they've been monitoring it. I would have bought a fee in him at 1200 dollars
But I i've covered for a second time and I was in bed. I couldn't move
So it stopped me from buying in and if i'm honest with you
I stopped watching the charts. It was fucking
Depressing me even though even though I was waiting for lower. I stopped watching the chart
Because it was depressing
Seeing the market drop so hard
So when I recovered from covet
The first day I came downstairs to turn my computer on a feeling was at 10 at 1050
So I started buying I started buying in heavily there
And then obviously we had eth 2.0 and that whole rally
So, um, yeah, it's been it's been amazing. If I'm honest with you, bro. I've been
Personally, I know that I that we run the gem hunters and we provide a platform for everyone to talk about
Projects and i'm not a massive fan of all these men tokens. I don't I don't enjoy it. Um
It's just the same thing every single day trading the shit coin seller shit coin buy sell buy sell buy
There's no weight. There's no
Content there's no value and it's just like ponzi after ponzi after ponzi
8080 and it's like where do you where do you stop?
I'll tell you where it ends with you losing your fucking mind being in a mental asylum. That's where it fucking ends
Me personally i've done all this before i've been through all this bullshit before i've been here six years now
I've been trading more with with with size. So
Trading the low caps as such. Yes. I've been trading some some low caps
But generally i've been trading
Uh, I find got massive passion in trading massive passion. Uh, so yeah, anyway, listen, I won't bother you guys. Um
What what do you want to actually talk about? Oh panda's here now as well panda. Can you hear us?
Yeah, I can but I got kicked like three times because twitter space is just fucking bugging like always
Mean you give us a bit of an insight into
Talking then about how our telegram community is sort of our that's what we're proud of isn't it?
That's the biggest thing that we've we've achieved. I think
Yeah, absolutely agree. So
Let's be honest on twitter. We definitely can't compete with the big guys
But on telegram, I would say we're the number one place
If you actually want to learn crypto want to learn crypto mindset how to take profits
what to invest in is it's also like a
Hub for people to come in and also share their views because we are very restrictive on meme tokens and stuff
We try to let it keep the channel clean and stuff. Don't get any scams, but
If you're kind of like leveled up in the community and we trust you then you can propose all your projects
We will review them with you the community reviews them. So right now people are making very good money on meme stuff
It's not even us giving the calls. It's like coming off from within the community
We we just provide a safe space for them to invest into all these shit coins and flipping them
But it's not really what we're about. But as long as they're making money and not getting ruck. We're happy
Well, I think uh, I think that was a good intro for our community segment, man. Good to have you chads in here
so we'll go ahead and give an introduction to uh,
Leonard Leonard to go ahead and introduce yourself and uh, talk to us about what you're building in the wallet infrastructure
side of the crypto of the crypto market
So the way I want this space is to go we're going to divide it up into sections now that we've already covered
All things community and a little bit of trading we're going to go towards more
infrastructure talk and the importance of uh
Of a web through your rather crypto security navigating the market in that sense
Uh, there's been a lot of vulnerabilities in the market
So I want to talk about that for a bit and then uh, we'll we'll cycle it back to our trading segment
in about 30 to 40 minutes
Uh, shaman, I also invited um
Indy up here is why I know he's part of the gem hunters and also the gem hunters profile if the individual that
Speaks through that handle would like to come up
And uh guys before we get formally started, uh, the length of the spaces is up above on the nest
If you guys want to share that so we can start flooding this room and get started, uh would be uh, really grateful for that
So, uh, lonard go ahead brother. Yes. Thanks for the introduction. So i'm leonard. I'm the cto web 3 off
Web 3 off is a company that builds wallet infrastructure
So a lot of the wallets they see out there
Um many of them build it themselves
But if you want better security we offer a product that allows you to kind of white label the wallet and
Hit the ground running with all of these basic infrastructure and security set up. So, um
The infrastructure provider and software provider, um that is powering trust wallet chrome extension
That just launched into beta a month back as well as a lot of other wallets. You probably see us here and there
And i'll say our recipe for success is basically we've taken a really popular and
Good way of of doing authentication, which is two-factor authentication, right? Almost every one of us has that for our emails
Um and our social logins we brought two-factor authentication dead model to
Web 3 so basically just re-implementing a lot of those things but in a self-custodial way
And basically that's that's that's like just what we do
And um, we launched also with npc. So this two-factor security model works well with npc since
npc means multi-party computation, so multiple factors you can
More securely protect your wallet
So we also launched our npc
version of sdk a couple months back
And now a couple of wallets are also using it
So i'll say our company's focus is a lot on usability making sure that mainstream users don't really need to understand
How you know a hardware wallet works or how metamask even works
They can just log into a wallet and then use things that they're familiar with like, you know face id patch id
You know password things like that to protect their account
Beautiful beautiful. All right
Next up we have uh elad what's going on brother. Feel free to introduce yourself
What's your building and also how you got in the crypto space brother? How is it going? Thank you so much for having me
So my name is elad i'm the cmo of zango wallet. Zango wallet is a unique breed of uh
Of a self-custody wallet. I like traditional crypto wallet. They're using seed phrases. Zango is using npc infrastructure
So similar to what was just mentioned before npc the technology called multi-party computation
Basically, we are mimicking the on-chain signature
And by doing that we are basically solving the seed phrase vulnerability
Uh prior to that by the way, I spent most of my career in you know in web two companies
Scaled companies such as fighter and weeks
And basically I joined zango to help to bring the the npc wallet
News to you know, as many as possible
I don't know if you were but we always say not your keys not your crypto, right?
Anyone want to guess how much money was lost or stolen in bitcoin only
Due to seed phrase vulnerabilities
Can you can you say it again you cut off there yeah, of course yeah, I was wondering if anyone want to guess how much money or
Was stolen or lost due to seed phrase vulnerabilities, right?
So when you leave your seed phrase or someone is stealing your feed phrase in some kind of fancy fishing
Man, dude, I I I would assume like
Like tens of billions of dollars exactly if we're talking about tens of billions easily
Yeah, so conservative estimations are talking around 100
billion dollars in bitcoin alone
What yeah 100 million dollars in bitcoin alone?
Which is of course a huge huge number, but moreover, it doesn't make that accessible, you know for everyone
So if you look for example at what happened in the industry in the past year
Companies like sales use and then blockfi and fdx started to crash
They realized that putting their funds or crypto assets in centralized exchanges
Is not a safe alternative. So they went into the into finding their first crypto wallet
Which most of them are using seed phrase with all the problems of seed phrases
And that's a real problem, right? And and you can see the dangers. We start to realize it's it's a huge problem
When companies like ledger that basically pretty much piggybacked the narrative of not your not your keys not your wallet
They piggybacked this kind of narrative and now that they're trying to introduce
Uh services that overcome the vulnerabilities, right?
Or other solutions like account obstruction
But this account obstruction is only limited to evm to ethereum and the likes
Um, so it's not valid for bitcoin. It's not valid for solana
So npc basically is like can be described as account obstruction steroids
That you can deploy all this business logic on chain and cross chain
So listen with that with that being said you guys
Have talked about some technical stuff with wallets and securities and all that and uh, I wanted to know this is this is a
Question for for the panel here. Yeah, and uh, we'll start we'll start it off
With shaman and panda and then we'll go to youtube guys as well
So with the advent of things like uh with with the saga phone from solana labs, right?
Do you guys think it's going to play a huge role in mass adoption?
And onboarding, uh people from web 2 into web 3 and what sort of demand you think these phones are going to have to have a
Default wallet integrated to them because to me right regardless of you know, the solana token all that stuff
I think it's going to create
um, it's gonna I think it's gonna spark and create a
Demand for the mobile industry to start producing technology like this and to have wallets integrated
Within them, right? I I I sort of think that the hardware
Wallet experience even though it's it's uh, a staple now. I think in the next 10 to 15 years
I think you're gonna have a lot of people
That would rather just have their wallets integrated within their phone
Uh, so we'll get started off
Panda what are your thoughts brother?
I think you're right. Yeah, uh, the big tech tech companies that are building smartphones right now are definitely
Going to implement wallets and make the phone sort of hardware wallets. I think that's that's the next logical step
Especially if we see more crypto adoption
Because it's also in their interest if you for example like apple builds the first
hardware wallet phone and
Get a huge like part of the market share. I mean they're selling so
even if they don't really care about crypto, they get a lot of new buyers on board, but
The thing is would you guys trust apple or Samsung or some other company with that kind of shit?
I'm not sure about that if I would risk it. Honestly, I would just keep my usual hardware wallet
Sharon what are your thoughts on this brother?
What were you talking about somebody just to remind me
Uh, like what are your what are your thoughts on the mobile integration of the wallet side of things and crypto overall side of things
Uh with the advent of the uh of the saga salana phone where it's essentially a phone that's optimized
A phone that's optimized, uh for the web3 experience, right?
I believe it does have a wallet integration in it sort of like it's essentially a hardware wallet where you can make phone calls
And it has the native dap store and all those yeah
Yeah, I sorry. I get what you say now. I thought you moved on to something else. Sorry
Um, yeah, I understand what you're saying
But the problem is for me at the moment is web3 is still in its very early stages. So
I think it's great because it's part of the journey and we have to go through but there's a lot of
Growing pains with all of this and you saw with the game five sector and any other
It sort of becomes a bit of a bubble at first and then it it breaks it pops
It's not something that I would personally buy
I love the innovation listen
I don't like these mental because like I was saying before but the innovation all the stuff that's going on
I love all that but in regards to this phone
I just think it's really early days and I think that there's still a lot more
Um, they're still quite buggy. I've read I've read a little bit about it. The reviews and things like that. And there's a lot of
Bugs, like I was saying growing pains and in the monastery view now, bro, um, i'm not a fan of salana
Personally, i'm not a fan of salana and the wallets that I was using in the past
They've all been made redundant. I'm trying to remember now solids not io
So I was using that wallet for all my salana stuff
And that I went to use it one day and it's gone the wallet's gone
Um, so I had to transfer it all onto something else. There's not many salana wallets, is there?
There's only a couple of salana wallets
Yeah, it's just yeah, I just really i'm not really with the whole salana. I don't like the fact that it's centralized
It it's gone down so many times
um, you know, it's constantly
Some money it was more it was more along the lines of like the tech not the salana token itself
But yeah more alongside like the tech. Do you believe that?
uh, like the blockchain phone is going to set off more of a trend, you know where
Yeah, or an apple might integrate more, uh more of web3 into the
I think it's great and it's it's a step in the right direction, but I still think it's really early days and
This is just the beginning and I think that
there's going to be they're going to be improved massively and I personally wouldn't be buying
For a you know, as I said to you before
Do you do you know what I mean? It's like very early days. I know it's decentralized and it's supposed to be giving more power to
But it's all been very it's all been very vague. And so I understand the tech behind us
It's very innovative and i'm all for it
But it's not something that I buy and I would love to see google and apple
And I think you're right there. You're going to see a lot more of these big players now starting to incorporate
Uh crypto digital currencies now that you've got cbdcs as well
We're going to see because you reckon that in in five years cash will be gone
So, uh, I think you're going to see a lot more of these digital wallets digital phones
Etc. So yeah, that's my thoughts on that
Beautiful man, I definitely agree. We are in the early stages. Uh, Leonard go ahead man
We i've been tracking this solana saga phone for a while and like even
before it was officially launched we knew about it through so not solana foundation and
In order to understand its
Rationale you kind of have to take a few steps back into like why it was developed and when it was developed
so the the reason it was developed was because
One of the problems is that most users are not
Like 50 more than 50 users on the internet are on mobile, right?
If you use something like a chrome extension, which is what a lot of a lot of wallets are right?
Um, you basically are missing out on a whole bunch of users that you could potentially capture
And in order to solve that so there was a chrome extension. I think that was the earliest in the earliest versions
There were only chrome extensions solace a chrome extension
Uh, madam master's a chrome extension phantom wall is a chrome session
So they're much of these chrome extensions and then you're basically missing out on mobile users
And what came out of this gap right was?
Lots of wallets started building their own browsers
So wallets themselves would have browsers. So you download something like trust wallet
And you could open the data in trust wallet and it will automatically connect with trust wallet
And that kind of worked but it was also really difficult to get a good user experience
Because firstly most users already have a default browser
The confirmation screens were not like very seamless
And thirdly a lot of these browsers only supported like ev evm chains like a theorem-based chains
so solana kind of just took a step back and
Kind of figured out that there were so many barriers to adoption for solana apps, right?
Like first you have to get the user to get solana in some way
And then they were to download chrome extension and it wouldn't work if they're on your phone
And then you download some app which does work with solana the apps
So instead of trying to solve all these step by step
Right, they just took all the capital they had and went straight to the source, right?
We're going to just build a phone a phone is compatible solana and it's web3 native
And I think that idea is basically trying to jump
Like three stages into the future right and and and that's that's that's good, but it's also
Bad, uh in some ways it's good in many ways accelerating the future is always good
It's better user experience, but in terms of like adoption, I don't know if people are willing to
immediately buy these types of phones, right because
Perhaps if you had a bunch of spare cash and you want that more secure device
You might buy a phone just for this, but if not, I don't see how
Like in terms of like marketing appeal would be easy to switch users from things like iphones or like samsung phones
And talking about iphones and samsung phones samsung already has a blockchain wallet
So they've had this since like 2020 or something three years ago
My old samsung phone had a blockchain wallet. It just wasn't working well, but it's there
So I think we are kind of converging the future where
This will eventually be supported
Whether we should trust them or not. I think it's a different question. There are ways to work around it
Maybe you don't just use your phone
You could use something like npc to do it between your phone
And maybe a hardware wallet or your laptop things like that. But I think it's an inevitability. It just
Depends on how fast the industry moves
A lot of go ahead brother
Sure, so I think that one of the things that today we all realize is that all crypto wallets are firmware
Wallets there is always piece of software running on on kind of hardware whether it's your phone
Laptop or hardware wallet that also contains a firmware. So there is no necessarily
security, it's just a matter of
User experience and if we talk about user experience and you know, if specifically answering the solana phone question
Then I would ask what is the problem? What is the consumer pain?
What is the you know, the user experience bear like challenge that it's
Going to fix and my take is that the real problem in mobile and clearly we believe in mobile
Uh, the real problem is is the app store, right?
So the app store I will just come with one one out of many extreme examples
I don't know if all of you aware but you cannot send an nft through a mobile crypto wallet
decentralized application in an application
Because these things are allegedly violates the terms of service of of of the app store. So
If you ask me that's a huge problem, that's a huge challenge that I hope can be resolved, you know
Decision that the antitrust in in the u.s. Can take or by other ways
But i'm not sure that you need to create a phone for that that does not specifically
All right. Now for the next question. Uh, i'll take i'll take this back over. Uh to shaman. Yeah
So shaman man question for your brother. Love having you up, bro. You got a fire of personality, man
Uh an absolute pleasure an absolute pleasure. Uh to have you up here brother. So
my question to you now is um
Man, how how do you envision mobile integration?
Um in the next 10 years man, I know I know despite, you know, some people might have
Some issues having a blockchain phone or whatever you want to call it
But given that, you know, my current generation gen z right a lot of us are
uh, we still use a like of course I still use the desktop and all that stuff but
You know most of the generation is all hooked up. Um
For you, right? What are some crucial aspects that you're looking for?
When it comes to things like mobile integration and how do you see the development of things moving forward in mobile integration?
I think that's it. I think that's an important uh
An important area the industry has to focus on at the current moment brother. So, um
Would love to know your thoughts on that brother be be be as raw as as you can man
I know you got a fire inside of you, man. You got a lot to say
Yeah, one second my window cleaner is just doing my house he wants me to bring the dogs in
One second, sorry, come in harry
Yeah, you're good, man. You're good. You're good
My window cleaner is coming around the house and he's shouting. Can you get the dogs in i'm like fuck's sake
Got to work. I've got a work call here. I said
Anyway, yeah, listen, i'm back. I'm back. Okay. Yeah, so listen your gen z. So how old are you bro?
Yeah, the problem is bro. Is that i've just i've been talking recently about how
What what drives the market what drives innovation and technology new ideas new inventions?
It's a tiny demographic of you look at any of these massive
Platforms these massive companies twitter jack dorsey with twitter
It was always people who were always sort of in that demographic where they're in university or just leaving university
And as I was saying before that's when you peek
so the problem for me is now i'm now in my mid to late 30s, so
You've got to look at what the people are doing
Who are younger so you get a lot of older people saying oh when I was the kid I'd do it like this
You're doing it all wrong. What are kids doing these days? But what they think is irrelevant now because
It might have been different in their day
so i'm finding myself in a position now where
I i'm kind of out of touch bro with a lot of what's going on now, you know
you're in the gen z i'm in
And i'm what I I use a desktop. So I don't actually like using my mobile phone
But in a monolith year, I used to have a an iphone 10. I think it was
And I was never off it, but i've got a samsung s20 now
I got a samsung because they're obviously they're more decentralized
You have to use a closed system
And I thought I don't like that. I think it goes against all our principles and values of
In crypto the whole decentralization aspect of it and there's been a few apps that i've used. So trust wallet
I could use it on my samsung
What's the uh, what's it used now samsung? It's different, isn't it? What's it called the
You know the technology that it uses to back it
Uh, I feel it's called now. Anyway, um, I was able to do that with my samsung with an apple
It's a closed loop system. So they keep everything in the house and you have to buy
Whatever apple is selling now
Um for me personally, I prefer using my desktop. I don't like using
But I understand that this is kind of the place to use them and it's getting to a point now where as you said
Younger people are now spending most of their time on their phones
The issue with me is is that I am out of touch with that generation. So I prefer
The older going on my desktop using the laptop
So i'm not massively in touch with that
Um, and as I said, I still feel like a lot of the technology used in the phone
Is not quite there yet and the user interfaces
It's it irritates me a lot, bro. Um, I find it rarely annoying
Yourself been a gen z you might have grown up and be used to that but i'm not used to it
I'm sure i've grown into it
If you know what i'm saying
And um, yeah, I find um, I find my phone really annoying and samsung s20
But you know what I would love?
If we could have a conversation about which phones are the best for crypto
Do you know what i'm saying?
I would love to have a conversation about
What is the ideal phone for crypto? What's the easiest to use the best it use it in their face the quickest the most compatible?
Oh, please be centralized
Do you know what I mean by that?
Yeah, yeah, I I do man, um
I remember uh elastos tried tried doing something like that and same thing with pun dx, but
Um, I I think we can have a space about that, uh in a couple of weeks. I'll try to get in touch with some of uh
With some of the team from elastos and also pun dx. I know they're really big on um
Other hardware components of navigating. Uh the crypto verse man, but uh, I want to shoot this over to pan the next
How do you see the the crypto navigation moving moving in the next?
10 years like if you were to say, all right, this is how the space looks like and say, you know 2033 or 2035
Right. What are some key things that you would want to see integrated?
With it within the space as far as navigation goes, right?
And this can go either from a desktop experience for security or even the mobile, uh experience, man
Shit man, that's a tough question. Um
So in 10 years, where do I want to see the space in terms of integrations?
I would like to have some sort of
airlock for when i'm for example using metamask or some mobile phone based a wallet
so if I click malicious links or stuff like that that it automatically detects that kind of stuff because
You see hacks happening all the time and malware is fucking everywhere. So
Definitely some sort of airlock between my wallet and the usual stuff i'm doing like telegram and shit
But aside from that honestly, that's that's not a topic I ever really thought about so can't give you a good answer on that
That's interesting man, i'll shoot that over to leonard leonard
are there any security measures being implemented within some wallets that
Sort of a detection to tell the user that this is a fake link or a suspicious smart contract address
Things of that nature. Is there anything? Yeah, totally
Wallet info go ahead. They're like it's an entire genre actually of services
It's called transaction scanning if you just look it up and they're like a whole bunch a whole bunch of companies that do this
Not only that metamask has opened up the api so you can
True metamask snaps so you can add any transaction scanner that you would like
That maybe has like a different blacklist or different whitelist that you prefer
Most wallets kind of already do this
But yeah transaction scanning is a big thing right now
There's different types of transaction scanners a lot of them
I would say like 80 percent of them right now
Do it on the blockchain side of things
So when you submit a transaction and then it goes to the miner
They scan your transaction there and then they see if you know, it looks suspicious, right?
Are you you know, you may be talking to some blacklisted address and then maybe when that happens they they tell you that oh, this is a
Potentially a malicious transaction, but then they're also more like front end based scanners, right? Which are like checking
basic things like are you on a
fishing link right or are you
Potentially sending it from like a strange location, right somewhere
You know where you normally are not
So those things vary I would say it's very similar to current
like anti-scam capabilities in traditional web2 security
lots of companies provide this so I think
Previously when wallets were less mature, these things were less common, but I think this is a pretty common place nowadays
Right, let me jump in real quick. Sorry
what I was thinking of was more like for example, i'm on my phone like literally all the time and
There's been some scams going on that they specifically targeted influencers and people they know they have like decent money
So they would send you some fire on telegram and if you were able to download stuff, so what I meant was more like
I mean your wallet on the phone or on your computer detects if your device is sort of like compromised and then auto blocks or tells you
I don't think that's that's I don't think that's uh, anyone's done that yet
Maybe the sauna like phone will be the first the reason why a lot of wallets cannot do that is because
wallets are basically just a
Mobile app, right so they don't have the permissions to you know
Look through your whole phone and look at what links are being sent around
So I don't think it's possible for a mobile app
to develop these kinds of capabilities, but if
You're building an entire phone and the whole os it's totally possible totally possible that solana phone could build this
I haven't seen it. Um, but it's totally possible that it could
But as of now it's a very common problem. Lots of like more sophisticated attacks nowadays are
Just basic things like they send you a link. So recently, um
registered a top level domain name dot zip
Dot zip. So now you can register domain names with dot zip
And the problem with that is that it opens up a whole
like host of like phishing attacks because
You can maybe send some somebody a file saying attachment dot zip, but it's actually a html link
Right to a actual domain called attachment dot zip
And then you click it and then the web page opens and downloads a different attachment
So this has actually been seen in the wild already a couple of people have really developed scams like this
Using this technique. So yeah, I don't know there's a solution for that today
Well guys i'm really sorry, but I need to go
Man, it was beautiful having you up here brother
Thank you, bro. I'll I'll come again next time bro. Just give me a shout. Yeah
No problem, brother. I'll be putting into your space later on today, brother
It was a pleasure having you up, man
And uh looking forward to having you more on these calls brother
Cheers guys. See you soon
Beautiful man. All right. I actually have a question for a lad since we're talking about
All things security and uh and wallets
So, you know, I believe that wallets are an important infrastructure component to drive web3 adoption
So a lad, what do you think are some key aspects that a new user should scrutinize while creating a wallet with any
Web3 wallet provider and if you can elaborate on some of the security measures
That user should examine while creating these wallets. That'd be fantastic
I'll start with with the basics. Um, so when you create a wallet traditional wallet
You're getting your seed phrase and then you've been told that you need to keep it somewhere safe
But no one is telling you what a safe place is
So there are best practices of maintaining the the seed phrase you can make, you know
You can sort of like check it out on youtube, but you can like create an offensive system
Of posters distributed in different places in different houses with different copies you can I mean
You can check it out on youtube. But basically at the end of the day
There is a contradiction between how many recovery files you're making to yourself
Because you want to have that accessible
How vulnerable you are in case of the mage finds a piece of paper and figure out what to do with it
All right. So this impelled contradiction is there
um, and therefore, you know, of course i'm biased but I would seek for
Non-seed phrase wallets such as zango wallet which by the way if uh going back to the previous discussion
in case of phone takeover
Zango wallet will will will not be uh compromised because the phone itself does not have
Uh the private key entirely it needs
The server in order to sign a transaction
So there are many many layers of security that you can get with npc or with other, you know
So this is definitely one piece of advice I would give to anyone
The other piece of advice to anyone who is new to this to this space
Is to take it very very gradually and to perceive that as a learning journey, right?
So allocate whatever amount of money that you feel like it's worthwhile to invest in your learning
And start to do the journey right buy some bitcoin
Swap it to some eth take your eth and you know, just uh, take it on uh
In in liquid staking or whatever but do it very very gradually and refer to that as
Structured learning ideally like create your own syllabus
Check all the boxes, right? And whenever you feel ready, you can gradually increase
The amount of exposure you have to this field because truly I mean the risks are uh
And you need to know what you're doing
When you go to self custody
When you go bankless the burden of security is on your shoulders
And this is something that I think many newcomers to the industry
Don't necessarily realize that there are no do overs. There is no undo pattern
So the entire burden of security is on their shoulder. Hence taking it slowly and figure out
Step by step what you're actually doing. What does it mean sending out a bitcoin transaction?
What does it actually mean to sign a web3 transaction on uniswap?
Um, this I think you know the best piece of advice I would give to a newcomer
Dealful man, uh, I actually want to throw it over to tenderman timmy tenderman timmy. Uh, are you there brother?
Yeah, I think I think he's uh
Think he might be busy. He just sent me a message
But uh leonard man, I want to throw this uh to your direction now, man
Want to know your take, um on a super wallet app in the crypto space, right?
Currently at the moment there are way too many chains
And um, you know with with that being said that would that would mean that a lot of these wallet providers
Would be ecosystem specific, right? Just like uh, shaman had mentioned with salana, right where they just go
They were where they could just disappear, right which would make it difficult for users to manage. Um,
You know a ton of different wallets or different chains. So wanted to know
Like who do you think are the wallet providers playing, uh in the superman in the super app segment?
And uh are building that super wallet app or do you think it's more of a of a myth at the moment?
I'm not sure if I can, uh make a prediction into the future about where the super wallets will succeed
We we we know a couple of them
Obviously, the salana phone is trying to be one of them
But also the other wallets that are not so married to certain ecosystems like
you know, like just like metamaster or trust wallet or
Coinbase wallet or a couple other wallets out there. They support a lot of different blockchains, but then
In order to support like to become a super app and have like more things on top of just swaps, right?
Maybe you also want nft marketplaces. Maybe you also want defi in your app like in order to do that you
Kind of a lot of things right every single with every single ecosystem is different every single platforms. Uh
Like a smart contract solution is different. So in order to support all these different chains as a super app you have to invest time
building for all of them and I don't know if that's scalable and
Um, I don't think it is and uh, the larger problem here is
Why what benefit does it really give you right? What does it what benefit does it give the super app?
Um for a super app, they maybe can keep the user attention longer on the app
So the user just downloads one app and he's done
That's kind of what a lot of the wallets today are trying to do with like Coinbase wallet and trust wallet
At some point it's like the mission returns right most users
Only stick to a couple of chains. So it doesn't really matter if you don't support all of them. Um
I actually think it might be the other way around I think super apps won't succeed and
we're gonna see like more uh more of a fragmented kind of ecosystem because um
Lots of large companies that are moving in the web tool are not
Supporting existing wallets in the sense that they're not trying to adopt existing wallets
and the reason for this is
It's two reasons. The first reason is um large companies like think companies like blizzard or ubisoft
They're going to build their own wallet. They're not going to use metamass, right? The reason for that is two reasons
Number one the ux is just not as good, right?
Having using a third-party wallet versus building your own
There's no way the ux can compare you can always improve it in some way
So if you have full control the wallet so ux is always a winner there in a sense that
If you have the capital for it the money for it large companies
They're trying to build web3 products will just put their own wallet
For their own use case and the ux will be better
But then the second reason is perhaps more subtle and this is something we've noticed at web3 off
And the second reason is that user attention is
Um metamass makes a couple million dollars a month just from swaps
And and you can skip that fee actually you don't even have to pay metamass a fee if you just
Go to your browser and type uniswap and an app and you're done either to pay the fee there
But if you just swap within metamass, they take a fee and users are just so lazy
They would rather just do the swap within the app rather than going to uniswap even though they're paying a fee
That that that kind of doesn't seem to make sense
But it's actually very logical if you think about it because there's like a cost to like figuring out how these things work, right?
And also it's more troublesome users want to do something easy. So
Large companies understand this they understand that user attention is monetizable
Perhaps they're not trying to monetize now but they understand that metamass is making millions of dollars from swaps
But if they hand off their user experience and the user journey to third-party wallets or super super apps, right super wallets
And never going to be able to capture any kind of value from their user
A lot of them actually for the second reason prefer to build their own wallet, which is why I think
If we if we extrapolate that in the future
Um, we'll probably see more of a fragmented industry because nobody really wants to hand off
On these wallets since they know that they these wallets are monetized their users
Yeah, man, uh totally agree with that man and uh, I know we're running a bit short on time so
Uh lad, I wanted to ask you this, uh question before you go
So I know we were talking about mpc's and all that stuff, man
So would you be able to share some real world mpc social login applications and the web 2 space?
You know with users using their social platforms as logging credentials where
Excellent for web 3 auth store user data. Could you elaborate more on the privacy aspect?
Uh, I think this question more refers to nether. Yeah. No, yeah
Um, I can answer a bit of that so
we provide like I said a 2fa kind of solution for users and
The key benefit of this is it's something that most users today right are used to
Most users today have used 2fa in some form google enforces it at some point when you use your google account
So that's every other social provider, right social login provider
So users are used to this and that's good
there's something that's good because
A lot of the problem with security is that users need to be educated and if they're not educated about it
they're not going to do it right and
Having an using reusing a system that users already are familiar with how's with that?
They already kind of know and figure out what it's supposed to do. So that's the first thing. Um,
We we push it into a bunch of our products, but one area that we've seen massive success is
Um, people are using our social login in account extraction wallets
And the reason this is successful in some ways and it's kind of like surprising to us is that account extraction wallets
You can do lots of things with them and one of the things that they can do is also they can do multiple factor
But one difference between what?
Account extraction wallets provide what we provide is that account extraction wallets can do more more than just 2FA can do things like
transaction scanning do things like transfer limits
Um, and lots of these account extraction wallets want to bootstrap like the user login on day one
Um, so the users can onboard easily. So we've seen lots of account extraction wallets start using our SDK for just this one purpose
So yeah, I think in terms of like real world use case
You probably see lots of account extraction wallets adopt this model instead of having the user download some other
like key management solution
Beautiful man, beautiful. So I know we just crossed uh, the one hour time
So I want to be mindful of your guys this time. So
Uh, i'll shoot this over to a lad and then to Leonard a lad
What are some developments that you guys have going on and uh zen go
Sure thing. So with npc, I I think I mentioned that earlier you can deploy
Business logic that you cannot deploy otherwise on
Self custody wallet so you can deploy this logic that says if this then that would happen
For example, you know bank account if you're you know, yeah, if you have a shared bank account with your spouse
Chances are that if you want to empty your account the bank will tell you hold on we need two signatures
These are things that cannot be
Executed today with traditional crypto wallets
And we are going to make this functionality available to our customer
So this is definitely something we're excited about this huge innovation. We're bringing the space
That today is mainly available may be available to uh
Institutional investors, but it's definitely not available for consumer retail customers, uh, like the one we're serving
Awesome and uh, what about yourself Leonard over at web3auth? What are some major developments going on in your guys?
Uh, so one of the major developments that when we're working on is just improving
Time like it login times because because we're doing authentication improving login times in less
Underserved areas of the world. So previously we had major
Like server clusters in the us and in asia
but because crypto is actually really popular in places like africa
south america where basically banking infrastructure is lacking and
crypto can help to like replace that gap and fill in that gap and in those areas
Firstly internet service is already not great, right?
They often have like longer latency and secondly because our server clusters and our infrastructure
Is further away from them?
It results in like poor user experience for these users
Additionally, a lot of them are actually on older generation phones
So in those scenarios all these add up together to like a really slow user experience a lot of them still use us
Because we are a good user onboarding solution, but we want to make it better for them
So over the past year we've been making our infrastructure more massively scalable having more regional support
We are now in all seven regions
With lots of failover and like low latency things so lots of like infrastructure upgrades that hopefully
Nobody will notice the point of infrastructure upgrades is to make people's experience better
But not have to disrupt anything or maybe change anything
So that's that's kind of like the most major thing we've been working on for the past few months
Well, I want to thank you guys so much for coming on the show and talking shop talking all things crypto
Shout out to you guys at zen go and also web3 off. Thank you so much for participating on these spaces, man
All right with that being said guys, um, we're gonna wrap it up here and close off the space
We'll be back in about 30 minutes for our price action based space with market check
So, uh, take care everyone and god bless you all. Thank you all so much