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CURRENCY DEBASEMENT $BTGD
Recorded: June 2, 2025 Duration: 2:01:27Space Recording
Short Summary
In a dynamic discussion, crypto enthusiasts explored the bullish trends in the market, highlighting significant growth opportunities in Bitcoin and gold as hedges against currency debasement. With central banks increasing their gold purchases and Bitcoin's adoption on the rise, the conversation underscored the importance of strategic investments in these assets amidst ongoing economic uncertainties.
Full Transcription
Thank you. yo yo yo what is up what's up gaff things are looking pretty good pretty good honestly i think
this is a very interesting week in the market but i'm excited for what june's gonna bring and
some nice green to pump through the end of the day there.
Yeah.
You take anything?
Yeah.
Honestly, I didn't get in on much.
I had some nice trades last night.
And I mean, just watching the long-term move up a little bit was nice.
Just a trend day.
Once we got moving and I wasn't in on it early,
I just kind of sat and watched the long-term portfolio just creep to the upside.
So can't be upset with that.
And I'll tell you what, Gav, there's an interesting podium on the stock picks for this week.
It's a glorious podium, I've heard.
It is a wolf pack of podium here.
I'll just go ahead and call it out now as we get our speakers up here.
Last week's market pick results,
the market itself spy up a whopping 0.19%.
The,
the QQQ was up 1.37.
As a crew,
we were down about 3% collectively,
but there's three people that were positive.
Those are the three people on our podium this week.
And that is myself, second place Gav, and third place Jordan.
Just the Wolf crew just killing it this last week, which I told Ben.
Ben is off today.
If anyone is looking for story trading, our friend Ben,
he's out in the middle of nowhere in the woods getting away, basically,
was what I was told.
So enjoying some time off there,
I told him I was just going to hold on to the trophy for one week,
and I'd probably give it back to him or pass it around to someone else.
But, yeah, I do want to highlight those picks just real fast.
AVGX was one of my picks mstz uh the other one um
that's uh basically short micro strategy and then a double x leverage avgo which reports later this
week um a couple of the other good picks throughout the week wolf financial had hood and then spcy
and that was actually his best performing one that sp SPCY, over 3% on that play.
Jordan was super leveraged, long QQQ and came out above water, 0.38%.
TQQQ and short SQQQ came out at 0.38% average return between those two.
Another great pick in here, Sam Solid is up here on stage.
ROBN was up 5%
this last week. So yeah, there you go. Wanted to highlight some of those picks. That's where
we're at going into this week. And it was kind of a short week. So kind of a weird timing on some of
that as well. But we're back to normal schedule here on this Monday evening, 5pm Eastern, where we do stock picks for the week on Wolf Financial each and every week.
We've got some of the crew up here with us already.
I know some are out of pocket today, but I definitely want to start getting around and get any thoughts on market sentiment.
And then, of course, if you want to hit on any of your previous picks, we can go ahead and do that a little bit as well.
of your previous picks. We can go ahead and do that a little bit as well.
Nick Drendel, my friend, let's go ahead and start off with you on the market sentiment side of
things. What are you seeing out there? Obviously, trend day today, we basically are sitting in the
same exact spot we were a week ago, or basically, I guess, last Tuesday. So what day less than a week ago when we last spoke?
or basically I guess last Tuesday.
So what day less than a week ago when we last spoke?
Going to Nick?
I'm not hearing Nick.
I saw him on mute, but I didn't get him.
I went for a second, but now I'm not hearing him.
Test, test.
Test, I heard a test.
Hey, okay.
Sorry about that.
There he is.
Yeah, I mean, this market
continued to be just extremely,
extremely strong.
There he goes.
Lost him again.
Lost him the sauce.
We'll try it one more time.
Nick, if you'll drop down,
we'll get you right back up. Yeah, we'll get you right back up.
Yeah, we'll get you right back up on stage.
In the meantime, let's go over to Sam Solid.
And Sam, let's see what Market Cinema thoughts you have.
And obviously, if you want to talk about any of your picks from last week,
please feel free to do so in this first half of the show.
Well, I forgot what my other holding was.
It was Robin, R-O-B-N, Rex Sheridan. What was that one? TSLT. Ah, shoot. first half of the show well i forgot what my other holding was it was robin robn rex shares and what
was that tsl t ah shoot i wish that trade closed out later earlier last week when tesla was running
but i guess not anyways uh my views of the market is that we're still in a melt-up mode um but still
in a little bit of a range here i want to see a breakout on the queues above pretty much where
we are at today it looks like we're getting their momentum. So I could see this continuing
to the upside. I think the upside risks are pretty vast when it comes to the market. There
is a lot of positioning in terms of being underweight equities here from a lot of hedge
funds via the NAIM exposure index, which is showing that basically surveyors or hedge funds are below exposure
on risk assets. So that could continue propeling the market upward slowly but surely. I know Chris
is going to argue with me on this one, but I'm not necessarily bullish rates. He's definitely
going to provide his point after this. And the reason why is because even though, yes, we do have the backdrop that
rates should be lowered here. We have the housing market slowing down. We have unemployment taking
up and so on. We have the ISA manufacturing PMI come up below 50, which means that that's
contracting as well. But the economy is somewhat resilient. I'm not going to say that the 4.8%
or 4.3% on the GDP now forecast for the Atlanta Fed
is necessarily saying that we are expanding at that rate. We're just kind of making up for the
imports that were front-loading last quarter, coming up this quarter, so that number is skewed
a bit up. But I would also say that things are just chugging along here. Even though
unemployment is sticking up a little bit, it is still somewhat tight. Global M2 is expanding, which is historically bullish for risk assets and so on.
It's not necessarily creating the environment that I would see that the Fed would go ahead and cut rates.
Now, that can certainly happen if numbers continue to drop to the downside, which they will over time,
but not dramatic to the level where the Fed needs to jump on the gun and price in more rate cuts.
The market is already pricing them at just one or two rate cuts for the entire year.
We need to see a dramatic amount of rate cuts being priced in for TLT to make a massive upside.
And the reason why I'm no longer bullish TLT from a call position is because I believe the decay in those contracts is going to outpace the actual premium gain on it. So it's not really
where I want to put my money at right now. And that's the reason why I'm not bullish rates per
se. I mean, I'm bullish bonds per se, but I mean, it can continue to go up, but not the move that I
want to see materialize in order to gain that upside on it. Now that being said, I think risk
assets are definitely showing leading results in tech, of course, with QQs leading today, but overall since the info lows.
But most of all, I think there's certain companies that are really out there that are showing tremendous lead.
We've got Robinhood, of course, being basically the software and data for brokerages as well, taking a lot of the market share.
We have cybersecurity stocks also pumping up here as well.
We have Rubrik, which is a data security company, almost breaking 100 today, hitting all-time highs. We have CrowdTrack at
all-time highs today as well, leader in cybersecurity endpoint security. We have Snowflake at 210,
which is really unheard of because I never thought we'd be here again after seeing Frank
Slootman's departure and Shreedhar Ramaswamy taking the helm, but he is definitely continuing
but he's definitely continuing to innovation,
the innovation, definitely continuing the margin expansion to focusing on profitability.
definitely continuing to market expansion to focusing on profitability,
far from profitability, but they are producing real cash flows.
So that is definitely a plus.
And we're seeing the acquisition space continuing to happen.
We're also seeing IPOs coming across the board.
It is definitely an expansive environment for risk assets, in my opinion.
And I don't think it's really a time that I would want to be short this market
because you're just getting your face ripped off.
Yeah, you can probably hope to short the market if we do break that bottom end of the range, which we were close to breaking at the other week.
And then the market ripped back up after we got news of an EU deal.
And I think that those deals are going to start coming through the wire probably in the next couple of weeks.
Or I think the tariffs for the tariff retaliation against China is going to be extended.
And I think that's going to keep happening in perpetuity until a deal comes through.
I mean, when we think about it from a macro perspective, we do want to decouple from China.
They want to decouple from us.
But I think it's in favor of both nations.
It's not going to have it happen all at once because that will be a dramatic effect on the markets, but also cause impact toward tariffs on semiconductors.
And China needs our semiconductors.
They need the NVIDIA chips in order to compete in this AI race.
And without that, it's just going to be a monstrosity.
In my opinion, I think the market's going to continue going up.
Appreciate that rundown, Sam.
Yeah, it's always interesting interesting the timing of these picks for
one to your first comment there and then i appreciate that rundown on kind of what the
market's doing and where it's at uh nick trindle let's give it a second shot and of course we'll
come back around for everyone's picks here on the second half of the show but nick let's give it
another shot here we appreciate you working out those technical difficulties for us. Yeah, I switched to my phone now.
Can you guys hear me okay?
There you go.
Awesome.
Okay.
Yeah, so I missed the first part of the other speakers, so hopefully not repeating too much.
But this market continues to pass just every test that it's given.
Last week, a lot of people were rightfully bullish.
Last week, a lot of people were rightfully bullish when we got Nvidia's news, Trump's
tariffs got, what was it, halted or going to court for that.
And at that point, basically, we had a ton of good news all priced in.
And the fact that we sold off a little bit on Thursday and then Friday in the morning
was just a nice two day shakeout. And I keep going back to
the 2020 market because the velocity of the downtrend and the velocity of the uptrend,
I can't think of a better market to compare that to than 2020. So I went through and kind of paired that with the positioning with NAAIM, which is kind of the active hedge funds.
They show their exposure each week.
2020 market, we didn't have a pullback more than 6% until that September peak where we had the
NAIM exposure over 100%. Right now we are sitting at 88, which is getting up there, usually at 95
and above is where I like to have like one foot out the door. But as long as we're below 95 and
really, as long as we see leadership and the leading
stocks act how they have been acting, you just want to keep pressing on the long side.
I'll send one of these notes to the nest. Every day, I'm going to be tracking these nine stocks
that I think are potential leaders in the market. And the last two days, all nine have been up on the day. We have seven out of nine of those stocks making new 52-week
highs. And really, you're seeing breadth continue to increase. It's really hard for me to keep my
just general watch list or my universe list under 100 names. And that doesn't happen when the
market's weak. And that doesn't happen when we're in a downtrend. So until we do see a gap down that doesn't get filled immediately or a really heavy volume
reversal, like we potentially were going to see on Thursday, but we've since followed through to
the upside, I still think you play on the long side. Um, we've had three weeks or so of consolidation here.
So it's not like things have gotten overly extended in the like really short
term. Um,
the only thing that's kind of getting me cautious that, uh,
we might be in for a little bit more turbulence is that exposure level,
getting up closer to that 95 range that we've seen some pullbacks and in corrections at that point
but i still think this is a market that you can play on the long side for the most part
and every day i i also make like a long watch list and a short watch list not that i'm going to trade
the shorts every single day or anything like that but just more of a way to gauge the market and today every one of
the potential short setups i had broke to the upside and that's that's all the feedback that
that i need uh to keep playing on the long side yeah that's been the uh the interesting thing nick
is when you see every dip just get eaten up right right? And it's like, I think the trade would be easier,
but I can't ignore what's on the chart in front of me.
And the chart in front of me looks extremely bullish
the way these dips keep getting eaten up.
Yeah, and I mean, the speed that we came off the lows,
that kind of creates an environment where people want to buy the dip
because they've felt like they've been locked out of the rally, which I mean, a lot of people have been. So as long as we keep seeing
these like gap up zones hold on pullbacks. And one thing that I use is just like the 20 day EMA
is kind of my line in the sand until we're below that. I think this is a market you can play to the upside.
Yeah, I mean, until something changes, I mean, I can't disagree with that at all.
I appreciate those thoughts.
Nick, we'll get back around to you for your picks here shortly.
Chris, let's go over to you and see what thoughts you have for us on this Monday evening.
Yeah, I think the market's doing well.
But I think there's some bifurcations in terms of overall how the economy is doing. I know a lot of the indicators that some people are looking at are up and to the right.
But from what I can see, there is deterioration happening at the bottom 50% of the percentile of people where you're starting to see longer term inflation starting to creep up.
Wage growth is coming down.
I think what I have seen is a lot of people will invest a lot of money in tech and say, look, the market's doing really well.
look the market's doing really well and i'm like okay well that's because your portfolio is like
70 to 80 percent in tech companies like you know that are high margin businesses that have a ton
of margin that they can kind of play around with they're doing buyback so yeah i mean you think
it's going in a certain direction especially with ai being the primary um driver right now so that's
like giving more multiple um to tech companies but on the other side I'm looking at the other part of the economy and I'm just like, okay
I'm starting to see kind of weakness like starting to bubble up
So from my end, I think that overall if you took everything together you pretty much get somewhat of a neutral
Neutral about like a neutral position in the market
So I mean if you look at the the spy, what's the SPY up this year?
It's flat. From the start of the year, it's exactly flat. So I think the opportunities are
people are getting trained that every time there's a dip, buy the dip, buy the dip,
but no one really knows what the bottom of the dip is. And yeah, I just, like I said,
I think this is, this is the time to be very judicious where, where you want to be allocated.
I don't think you should be out of the market and be like, okay, let me just go straight into bonds
and look, you know, a lot of people look at the equity risk premium and be like, oh, you know,
S&P 500, it's trading at a 20 PE and I can get a you know like almost a four and a four and a half
a 4.75 to five percent return on being in treasuries I'd rather just be in treasuries like
probably not the way you want to do it um I would rather just be like heavy long in my positions but
also have some hedges in place just in case like things go in the other direction. So I think there are definitely opportunities for us in 2026. But I think until the policy volatility uncertainty
goes away from the Trump administration, I think these giant rallies and these dips are going to
be moments where you can actually trade. So I think a lot of people right now the strategies that have been working really well from what i'm seeing is covered call strategies
You know cash secured puts writing the volatility on both sides and of course
You have the buy the dip guys. So anytime market dips more than I guess five percent
It's like okay, let's get the buying frenzy together and buy up everything
And uh those people
have done well as well so i think right now you know this is definitely a trader's market with
all the volatility i think 2026 is probably going to be a better time for equities and it actually
might even be a good time for bonds as well so you might actually see kind of a two-stage approach
next year so we'll see what happens.
Chris, it's interesting on the data side of things.
Fed Goolsbee today made a point that some of us kind of mulled over on Stocks on Spaces.
The recent PCE inflation print may have been the last vestige of pre-tariff impact.
Is that kind of where you're at as well?
It sounded like that's kind of the direction you were leading on the macro side of things that the data is just,
there's some cracks in it, but there's not really even that much hard data just yet on the impacts.
Yeah. I mean, the key is looking at consumer sentiment and then also looking at some of the
projections out there. So right now, consumer sentiment is kind of falling a little bit.
The consumer definitely feels weaker.
So I think a lot of people are looking at the tariffs and saying,
well, this means that it's going to be price increases.
But on the other side, there's also a bunch of demand destruction as well.
So that demand destruction eventually is going to play out
and that data is going to end up being in the hard data.
And that data is going to end up being in the hard data.
And I think this is where, you know, once we get an idea of what these tariffs actually do to prices, that's when you can kind of like, you know, make somewhat of a projection on which side you want to be on.
So, you know, one of the reasons why the Fed has not cut and it's been clearly stated, which is we think the tariffs are inflationary.
OK, but then there's like a bunch of counterpoints that point to a disinflationary scenario, like much, much lower energy prices, shelter rolling over all of these things.
I feel like the Fed is like has blinders on it and just basically all they think about is tariff, tariff, tariff.
And they're like, yeah, look at the rest of the freaking economy.
Wage growth is spiraling lower.
Unemployment is climbing higher.
Longer term inflation is kind of getting higher.
So, you know, you guys are going to have to move.
I think then this summer will be the ultimate test.
If we don't get any, you you know any sort of inflation in the next
60 to 90 days i think the fed is going to be like whoa maybe we should be cutting and they
might end up doing you know like a like last year a 50 basis point cut in september you know to
basically catch up so if if we get that then that's something to keep an eye on so right now
with all with all the tariffs, I don't
necessarily think the impacts have been that big, especially if you consider FX, like dollar is
down. So a lot of the costs are going to be absorbed by currency. And then of course the
suppliers absorb some of it. And all of these things are turning out that tariffs, at least up until about 7% to 10%,
you know, are not necessarily going to be inflationary to the degree that people are
assuming.
Now, if you're doing 150%, then yeah, you're definitely going to get some inflation from
that.
But I think at 7% to 10%, I think margins are high enough for a lot of businesses where
they can absorb a little bit. where they can absorb a little bit.
The suppliers can absorb a little bit.
And the consumer, of course, will absorb some of it.
But then there's also demand destruction and effects changes.
So I think overall, it's just going to be a very neutral thing.
And I think Scott Besant and the administration know that.
And so they've basically said, look, we're going to impose a new tax.
They're not going to call it a tax.
They're going to call it tariffs on businesses and on consumers.
And basically, that'll help balance some of the budget.
Now, one of the unintended consequences was the bad execution with Liberation Day, which I think has been rolled back significantly.
And there's more cooler heads in the mix now. So I think the new policy is probably going to be a lot more tamed and actually see some
positive results with us being able to close our budget deficit.
Not close, but lower the budget deficit.
And if interest rates start to come down, that'll also help future deficit reduction
measures.
So the goal right now from this administration is
over the next four years, get the deficit down. And one of the ways that they're going to be able
to do it, of course, is generating some revenue while at the same time lowering interest costs
so that the debt that we have right now is not causing us to go into a spiral. So I think it's a very calculated gamble that the
administration has made post-liberation day to basically roll off a lot of this. And I think
we'll all benefit and we'll get a much clearer picture in the third quarter. And by then,
I'm assuming that the picture is going to be, we're probably going to get more rate cuts than what the market is predicting right now.
Yeah, great rundown there, Chris.
Appreciate you sharing your thoughts with us.
And let's go to Jordan.
Jordan, what's on your mind with this market?
What's up, crew?
What an interesting Monday.
It was a good Monday, huh?
It was some crazy price action.
We got a little bit of choppiness after that initial move,
but the rest of the day was pretty
exhausting.
I think price action was pretty efficient.
That was sad.
I was honestly kind of expecting
downside.
I still kind of am.
Even though I'm not really bearish on this market. I just want to
see a little bit of a rebalance to some of these lows we made in this range, since it kind of looks
like we're starting this chop range on the daily. I might be wrong on that. Maybe we just break out
and keep going. We are looking strong on the higher time frame but we are tapping into some areas that we
some some big spots that we made uh what is that thursday last week so i don't know if we get
through this you know through that 746 50 on the nqs then i'm i'm gonna be a lot more bullish for
sure but until then it's hard for me to be extremely bullish in this area um just because
i want to see that rebalance to kind of
50% retracement of last month's range. Last month, we had a super trendy month to the upside,
kind of invalidating any of that bearish order flow that we may have made on the way down.
We just completely ran through all of that. But after a trending month like that, trending day,
trending hour, you always expect that
50% retracement back to whatever that trending candle was, that range of that candle, which
in this case is 768 on NQ, 20,768.
So I would like to see that.
It's not even a big drop.
I'm not by any means like super bearish on this market.
And if I keep showing up and like, looking for the bear setup,
and it doesn't keep it doesn't set up for me, I've kind of been I was kind of today, right? I was
looking for the setup, it happened early on, really fast early on this morning, and then I
was looking for it to, you know, get continuation and continue throughout the day. And we just did
not get follow through whatsoever, right? So and that's kind of been the case on the whole way up here.
Right.
We've had some decent spots where the bears could step in, but they just haven't really
gotten it done.
They've kind of just sucked as we've talked about amps.
So I'm kind of expecting the same thing, but I can't I can't really ignore the spot
we're in right now.
So I am a little like short term bearish. But after,
you know, if we can go take this, this low that we made on the daily, which is 727 on NQ,
I would love to see upside from there and build some higher timeframe structure to get upside
back into this like 22,000 area. If we just want to rip all the way to there, then I guess that's
fine. I would just like to
trade it down and then back up. And beginning of the month, I feel like we could expect something
like that, but maybe I'm wrong, right? Maybe this market just keeps ripping to the upside and we
just keep playing the long. So we'll see what happens, but kind of a little more initially
bearish this week, expecting a nice move down. We got a lot of data this week, but I think the only data
that really matters is that NFP on Friday. So I know we're all watching that, the intraday traders
and all the futures traders. So it's going to be interesting. We'll see what that brings. Maybe
that brings the move I'm looking for. Maybe we just keep ripping. I'm not sure, but I'm going to
keep trying to play the short here and see if we get any setups for it. But if we don't, then I'm not sure, but I'm going to keep trying to play the short here and see if we get any setups for it.
But if we don't, then I'm just going to continue playing long.
It's kind of hard to go against this market right now.
It's just long.
Literally every time we have a good setup for the shorts, it just kind of gets ran through and never follows through.
If it is a short, it's a short for a very short time, not a very long time. So
I'm afraid that might be the case if we continue with this momentum that we have. So we'll see.
Either way, I'm cool with it. I would just say there's more opportunity for everybody if we get
that initial move down first this month, but maybe not. We'll yeah appreciate that jordan it's uh it's interesting it's like
i keep getting caught in kind of what you're talking about there cheering for the easier
trade versus you know just staying you know staying with the market which i mean i'm not
fighting it but you know i'm not even super bearish i don't think we're gonna crash from
here or anything i just want to see a little bit of a move to the lows.
Create a better opportunity for traders.
Yeah, better opportunity for all of us.
Or dip buyers, even investors that are wanting to get in.
But Nick was making this point earlier.
We know that people have chased this market, and we even mentioned it on this very show multiple times,
that every little dip, there's going to be early dip
buyers that have missed out on the entire rally that are just trying to get in somewhere. So
it makes sense, right? Uh, appreciate that. Jordan, uh, knots snuck in here finally about time knots.
I'm alive. He's alive. I know you've been working on some projects and stuff, but glad you could
join us this evening. We are, we're on the tail end of kind of getting market sentiment here, and then we'll come back around a second time and get everyone's picks.
So what's your market sentiment here, Knott?
Without having heard what everyone else said, I have a feeling you'll probably say something similar, which is a good thing.
But I'm just curious, where are you at with the bigger picture of stuff right here?
Yeah.
Well, I know where you're at.
You've been wanting to get puts.
And I know you've been trading in and around the market anyway and taking advantage of it.
And honestly, obviously, Friday, we did look a little weaker, but we closed pretty strong.
The usual end-of-month shenanigans that usually happens.
You know, I would say personally, we're still holding up.
Until we break, and I would think at this point that Friday low,
if you're looking at Qs, let's just say 512.
If you're looking at SPY, let's say 584 just about. You know, I think
those are going to be key areas to hold to push higher if we do try to test it again.
But I do think they try to push it higher. I mean, they've tried to take it down. We've held up just about two times now,
Friday being the closest time that we did it.
We tried it on the Friday before that, on May 23rd.
And overall, I mean,
it just seems like they continue to want to lead it up.
And you look at some of the individual names.
I mean, Meta just broke out today, broke out of that,
I guess you could say, flag that was forming.
Kind of the same thing that you could see on multiple other names,
including Spying Queues.
Microsoft is right near the top here.
And, you know, there is some things that pull back and kind of, you know, reset themselves a little bit.
But I really believe that, you know, we do push higher.
You just need to wait.
If I was to trade it personally, not being in the market right now, I would wait for a breakout, try to
test that support again, where we just broke out of, make that support, and then, you know, go along
from there personally. But intraday trading, you know, just take it how it is. I mean, today
was a full trend day after that morning dip, and then just went straight up after that in a straight line. So again, I believe if
we hold 512 on Qs and 584 on SPY, I think we go higher. Yeah, hard to disagree with that. It seems
like the risk is upside at this point unless something changes drastically on the news front, which I
know we're all very tuned into at this point, but it seems like the market's even getting a little
bit quieter here and there. Gab, if you're up here still, if you're around your phone,
would love to see if you had any market sentiment thoughts. Give it just a second. There he is.
And here, I think it's been a fantastic market.
Can you hear me well or do I need to take out this?
No, I can hear you now.
It was like the first three seconds when you unmuted it was a little quiet, but now I got you.
Is this even better now?
A little worse, actually.
All right. How am I now? There he is. Now you're loud and clear. Something with these AirPods, actually. All right.
How am I now?
There he is.
Now you're loud and clear.
Something with these AirPods, man.
Yeah, I found this market fascinating.
You know, congrats to everybody that held.
Obviously, right?
I hope people weren't selling at the bottom.
Although, unfortunately, I do know.
I mean, Emp, you and I know people were messaging us that there were a lot of people that were
selling at the bottom.
But shout out to those who have held and stuck with some of these growth names.
You've now come out to a very profitable year.
You know, some of these crypto names as well have held up pretty well.
I'm super intrigued, actually, to get M's thoughts here on Bitcoin, which is retraced back to 104 at the moment, 104K from that high of around 112K.
It's back below the 21-day SMA, which I don't love. So I'm keeping an eye on
it. Spy, I actually really like here though. So spy has been kind of sputtering around a little
bit, but all of the technicals that I like to look at are lining up. So we bounce perfectly
back off the 200 SMA. That's awesome, right? We came above it. We retested it,
bounced right off of it. Perfect bounce. We're moving back up now, great green day here,
the 21 SMA, love to give that time to catch up, that also is catching up to us, so 21 day SMA
right now is at 581, we're at 592, you probably give that a few days of more sideways action,
and that is something that could catch up to us, and I believe give us a little bit of a bounce
as well, some of my favorite names in the market on the risk onside,
like Robinhood, which I've talked a lot about, and Palantir, right? They're continuing to make
moves. I was looking back at CrowdStrike. I didn't realize I'd been holding CrowdStrike since
freaking 2020, up about 100% on it. Took a while to get there, but it's just continued to move.
I believe that they made new all-time highs today on CrowdStrike, which was cool to see.
They pushed to 479, been holding this since around 225 in those areas.
And then the last couple other things.
So gold continued to surge back up.
Gold had a perfect retest of the 50-day SMA, back up above its 21, moving to the highs.
So to me, I'm still pretty bullish on gold.
You know, I put out some threads where I make kind of the case for both sides and just talk
through some of the different items.
But at the end of the day, I do think gold has a lot of potential still here and a lot
of upside.
And so I continue to keep a good eye on it.
So overall, I think that's a pretty healthy market.
You know, you go through these shakes with Trump where he'll say something and it just
completely, you know, moves the market one way or the other. But the overall essence and
basis of the market does seem to be in a good place to me right now. So there's a lot of doom
and gloomers on the timeline. Gosh, I can only imagine if they even follow their own things and
thoughts that they're saying. So those are some of my thoughts. And the last thing I'll just point
out real quick, I mean, this is more of just individual names, but Tesla, I'm so excited for Tesla.
I am so curious if this is a buy the rumor, sell the news type event going into June with
RoboTaxi.
I'm so curious to see.
But to me, Tesla, you know, if it dips back towards the 300 level, definitely scoops more
around that 300 level could totally plunge through it for all that
we know. But to me, it's it's really the most interesting name in the market right now from
multiple perspectives. So those are just some of my thoughts right there. And then one thing,
I guess, before I end out, Stock Talk made a point of this, but there's a lot of these small
caps or maybe not even so small, but, you know, even like kind of like sub 3 billion, but also just even stuff that is in the couple hundred million that I've seen
being getting huge moves recently.
So I really wouldn't discount out the small caps.
We did our small cap space or M brand it earlier today on will financial.
And there's just a lot of stuff popping in that area.
So I really would not count it out right now if I were you.
It's been very interesting.
I know some of these guys that monitor the small caps really have been crushing it across
the board.
You know, these individual thematic type of moves have been very powerful, especially
even with the market itself trailing up.
There's been some great opportunity all around that I've seen.
And I've watched that just from the different spaces we run and from this show and the variety of picks we get
out of the show each and every week um all right uh 20 minutes to the top of the hour so we're
gonna start throwing it around and getting this week's picks from everyone and uh i am sitting on
top of the podium so i'm gonna go ahead and drop mine in first.
My first pick, and my second pick is actually going to answer part of Gav's little prompt there.
My first pick is going to be the greatest retailer in the world.
That's Walmart, of course.
Walmart, I think, is about to break over this $100 range.
It's just resilient as it can be.
It looks like it wants to go fill this gap. A very strong candle today on the daily.
So I'm going to take WMT Walmart for my first pick.
And my second pick, I'm going to run back one of my picks from last week.
That's MSTZ.
That is the short leverage side of MSTR strategy.
Looking at Bitcoin micro strategy itself, it did pop up a little bit today,
rejected right on the nine daily EMA. And it's the one that kind of leads us. Bitcoin looks like
it's going to continue down a little bit further to me. And I'm going to capture that alpha by
going with MSTZ because micro strategy just kind of leads the move a little bit. So I'm going to capture that alpha by going with MSTZ because MicroStrategy just kind of leads the move a little bit.
So I'm going to run that pick back for my second pick.
I just think Bitcoin is going to come back down at least to 102, maybe a little bit lower.
And then it's probably another buy.
But we'll see at that, you know, we'll reassess at that point.
But I just see a slight rollover
and kind of a bear flag trying to play out here. I do see support right here. So if it holds here,
obviously it'd be an easy quick cut, but rejecting the daily 90 MA at the high,
that's actually on Bitcoin's chart as well as MSTR's chart both. So my picks for the week,
WMT and MSTZ, and I'm going to throw it over to Gav,
our second place finisher, to get his picks.
see if we can get that mic rolling again yeah okay there he is you call me for stock picks
See if we can get that mic rolling again. Yeah. Okay, cool. You calling me for stock picks?
yes sir you're second place you go second very nice all right let's get into this um so i've
just been wait and real quick what are the ones that you took i took walmart and mstz the 2x short
micro strategy all righty then okay um i will just take the gander here on TSLT. I do think that you could
get something pretty interesting coming out about Tesla this month. I think it's going to be a big
month one way or the other. This could be last place or first place kind of shot. But for me,
you know, I'm looking for that upside here on Tesla. This is a double leveraged Tesla TSLT.
This is a double leveraged Tesla TSLT.
That's gonna be my first pick here.
My second pick that we're going to go with,
I'm gonna go with one that is a really nice setup
for an ETF right now.
And we're having a conversation with them
actually off the back of this base in 15 minutes.
And that's gonna be BTGD with David Jukansky.
So BTGD is a really interesting ETF.
I talked about it earlier, how I'm very bullish right now on gold and how I do think that
there's an interesting placement here for Bitcoin.
If you like the two of them as well, BTGD basically gives you exposure to both, but
leveraged from $1.
So you put $1 in, you get exposure to both $1 Bitcoin, $1 gold.
And so you can take a look at the chart yourself.
It's obviously had a very good year with the Bitcoin run up with gold.
It just had a pullback with this Bitcoin and gold pullback where it went from $37 back.
Perfect retrace of the 21 SMA.
Time to move back up.
We just bounce off the 21 SMA.
I'm looking for a move back to all-time highs.
That is about $2 per share right now. So that's going to be my
two picks for the week. Beautiful. And I did share my thoughts on Bitcoin, but the gold chart does
look fantastic. So we'll financial TSLT, June 12th is that RoboTaxi date reportedly. And BTGD,
Bitcoin and gold, that's basically leveraged your leverage 100 bitcoin
and 100 gold on that etf and i'm excited for that conversation here in about 16 minutes at the top
of the hour uh jordan third place let's go over to your picks next please sir oh gosh i might get roasted on this but uh give me the give me the long sqqq
short tqq uh it might be so bad it might be so bad i want everybody to know that like i am not
just don't don't trade that do not follow play whatsoever. Don't follow anybody's plays just blindly.
So cancel my limit orders?
No, no, no.
Please do your thing.
Do your thing.
I'm really not super bearish on the market,
but we just had a killer month,
and we just opened up the month and ripped.
It's hard to expect this to be the low of the month for me.
but you're flipping from last week.
I know.
Okay.
That's no,
I respect it.
We'll roll with it.
if we're through this,
I mean,
basically if we're getting right back to these highs that we made and,
and with momentum and ripping,
I mean,
we can go to 22,000.
We don't need to go lower, I guess.
But we'll see.
We'll see.
I might be so wrong, but I'm going for it.
So we'll run with it.
Hey, who knows a week from now where we're at?
I mean, the way it's been trading the last three weeks,
essentially, you're both right and wrong at some point.
I might be a genius or I might be very stupid.
You could win and lose twice during the next week.
All right. Appreciate that, Jordan.
That's SQQQ on the long side and TQQQ on the short side.
So a leverage short play overall on QQQ from Ace the Kid.
Appreciate that.
Paper Gaines could make it tonight.
He did send his picks in to me.
AGQ, that's silver on the long side, and he wants ROBN. He wants this continued hood breakout move on the long side.
And with that, let's go to Nick Drendel next.
All right. First pick is going to be OKLO on the long side.
Last week, we had the nuclear theme really start to kick into gear.
And just another sign of like the risk on market. And this is where I don't think Jordan's pick is
like, I don't think that's too outlandish to say because we're at a point in the market where
things are either going to be extremely risk on and we get like very kind of uh speculative names
getting going or we have a pullback so as wrong as he can be i can be just as wrong with these
picks but okay hello you have that emerging theme you had the highest volume in over a year uh on
the 23rd and since then we've closed over that, that closing price. We've held $50,
which is a key round number to hold. And we've been holding the five day EMA on the pullback.
Nice inside day today, relatively strong closing range. So two ways that I'll be playing this is
if it, if we open with a gap up, taking out today's high is going to be my entry, and then my stop will be
the five-day at that point. Or if we continue to kind of like flag out and kind of build
a cup and handle here, trying to build exposure close to that HVC, the high volume close area
between $49, $50, and $50 with a stop at the 10-day EMA on OKLO.
And I'll pin the second one up.
It is going to be Toast.
I think I've picked this a couple times in the past,
but overall just really beautiful double bottom base here.
You always want the second kind of pullback
to undercut the low of the first pullback.
And not only did you get that,
but you got a four-day close the 200 day moving average. So even people that are trying
to hold for the longterm, typically we'll use that 200 day moving average to stay in the position.
And even that got shaken out, not just by a single day, but by like three or four days.
So basically that clears the deck of all of the people holding the stock.
And right after you get that, you get a pop back through the key moving averages, some tight price action, a strong reaction on earnings.
We run right back into highs. And since then, we've just pulled back to the 20 day moving average.
Great shakeout on Friday through the 20 day into the HVC area from that earnings pop.
And then strong reaction today back through the 10- and 5-day moving averages.
So overall, really quality base here.
Does it get going this week or does it need another week of consolidating?
I'm not quite sure.
I might pick it again next week if it does that.
But I think the potential is pretty good here.
And then my stop on this would just be
the low from Friday appreciate that Nick Drendel that's okay hello on the long side and toast
t-o-s-t on the long side as well toast doing all those restaurant uh point of sell menu
floor plans, everything.
I was used them a lot back in my restaurant days and I'm actually bullish
that stock as well. I like that pick Nick Drendel.
I'm stamp solid. Let's go to you next and then we'll hit Chris and not.
Okay. So I am bullish to market in the short term,
at least through the next couple of weeks, we get the unemployment data and ADP, I forget the exact name of that one.
We get the ADP non-farm payrolls on Friday.
So I think that the market could possibly set up for some upside as we see some surprising numbers that the economy is not as bad as the market expects on Friday.
It could provide some bullish momentum there. Surprising number is that the economy is not as bad as the market expects on Friday.
Could provide some bullish momentum there.
But at the same time, I don't want to do anything ETF-wise.
I'm going to be a little bit targeted here.
I'm going to do the Rex shares two times Snowflake ETF or Snow ETF.
The ticker symbol is SNOU.
That's an interesting one.
I wish I knew that existed. But anyways, I'm actually
long July calls on snow and they're doing pretty well, up 2% in the day. So that ETF is performing
quite well. So I'm going to continue the momentum on that one. Very bullish software at the moment.
We're seeing a lot of negative sentiment flipping around to positive sentiment for snow.
That being said, a year ago is a complete opposite direction.
Everyone was bearish in snow.
So going to see that multiple catching up.
Also going to be bullish semi-connectors, specifically data center build out.
But also Broadcom is going to be announcing their earnings this week.
announcing their earnings this week. So I'm very bullish heading to that one. However,
So I'm very bullish heading to that one.
I'm going to be a little bit risky here and I'm going to go along. Navitas, ticker symbol is NVTS.
They actually created a partnership with NVIDIA just recently announced. I think it was last
week. I forget exactly when, but it has that technical setup for the pullback right now,
ready for a bounce. Very high risk position. I do also
have this in my speculative portfolio. At the same time though, it is in my speculative portfolio,
so it is more of a long-term, but I do have a trade position on as well. Very small. Both these
positions put together is like 0.5% or less of my portfolio. So it's not really going to move
the needle for much. If it does go down, if it goes up So it's not really going to move the needle for much.
If it does go down, if it goes up, that's of course going to benefit me.
But at the same time, I think seeing the marks momentum,
especially with semiconductors outperforming software and the Qs today,
possibly could be setting up for a bounce over here.
So I'm going to take the tactical trade there. Go long NVTS for Navitas and go long two times snow rec shares leverage etf snou
well appreciate that sam so snou and nvts both on the long side i didn't know about that snow
one i thought i guess i saw that at one point. I just left my mind because I put snow on the band list in my brain.
Oh, really?
I did for a long time.
For a long time.
I'm coming back around, though.
It may go back on my watch list soon.
Okay.
So when you put in that whale order, I'll be ready to capitalize the appreciation.
I'll pump your bags for you.
Yeah.
I want to see you put in those orders for 2 million shares, man.
Do it.
All right.
But yeah, no.
I only knew about this one because I was on that RecShares website when I was looking at ROBN, which Paper Games took it for me.
But that's fine. You deserve that place. But yeah.
I feel like there's about two or three of y'all fighting over that hood leverage every week.
But Sam Saad, appreciate you for joining the space.
Hope you'll stick around and talk some gold with us here in a little bit.
S N O U N V T S.
I am working on a tweet that I'll get out with all these picks in it.
Chris Patel, you're up to bat next. Oh, Chris left. Oh, we lost Chris.
Let's go over to knots. Then knots, what picks do you have for us this week?
Yep.
I'm going to do the same thing as last week with tsll because i do feel i'm looking at it
right now and i feel looking at this personally i mean tesla just had a three-day pullback
nice hammer today or at least wick um i feel like it could definitely have some room to push higher especially what what
god was saying before uh june 12th is the start of their um what is it can't even think robotaxi
thank you just like myself uh started their robotaxi on june 12th so i think there's going
to be some run up into that.
And obviously we've already had a run up, you know, going into it so far.
Um, but on a three day pullback here, and if I do expect the market to push higher,
Tesla obviously should follow through as well.
Um, so TSLL, I'm going to take the leveraged on that.
Um, and then the other name I had is there a two-time leverage on Netflix
NFL you okay I'm gonna do NFL you because I have Netflix going to 1244 here
which is another 20 plus points 25 points just about um and i mean netflix has just been on a tear and it just
continues to go higher and it looks like it wants to it got a new high again today and it looks like
it wants to get to that 1244 before doing anything else so nfl u and tl uh tslLL. Netflix might be one of the strongest charts in the market.
Oh, it's crazy.
Do you have any targets where you think this thing goes to?
And if anybody else has any, I would love to know.
Because I'm sitting here going, I've trimmed a little bit, but I'm sitting here like, I don't want to sell any.
But I'm like, I don't want to buy any at the all-time highs either.
It's like, where is this thing gonna go yeah i have that 12 244 which is only again 24 25 points away
and then if it wants to push higher i got 1391
just with fib extensions yeah so my first fib extension was right here where we like rejected a couple times it's
like 12 13 12 14 yeah 12 14 and we pushed through that today so like i'm i'm out of uh i'm out of
current extensions here but i mean what a strong chart very bullish there what about on the uh on
the tesla side of things not so gab gave some of his thoughts earlier uh june 12th 10 to 20 was the story
that we saw 10 to 20 model wise uh what are your thoughts around how this event goes is that uh
i'm run up to the news do you think i mean i kind of had this debate in the space the other day but
what are your thoughts around how how this looks and how it goes i mean i feel overall
after trading for so long and obviously us trading together over the years too i mean i feel overall after trading for so long and obviously us trading together over
the years too i mean i feel like every type of news is a run-up to the news it's it's more likely
than not i should say um yeah i kind of think this time's different this time's different nuts
why is that i don't know that's what we always hear it's always the argument this time's different nuts why is that i don't know that's what we always hear it's always the argument this time's different if there was an argument for that this time is different
is it that this is a revolutionary type of thing that's coming out if there was some type of if
there was a this time is different argument is it the hey robo taxi is revolutionary it's
completely different if this launches and just goes super smoothly and, and I mean,
I know expectations are high, but if, if they launch it,
they're just proved that they can do this around Austin. Does,
does this not say, Hey, this,
this is a real thing now instead of just hearing about it for years.
Yeah. You know, I think it's a little weak in general though,
that they're only using 10 and I know it's,
it's more like a soft launch i
would say um so yeah you know i i think it's gonna be a run-up into it personally um and we basically
see how they react after that and obviously i'm'm guessing they're going to give some updates on it afterwards
or at least maybe a month into it or two or three months into it
and possibly even also add more vehicles.
So I think it's a run up into it, sell it off a little bit,
and then just kind of wait and see what they say on how it's going
and if they plan to ramp it up you know right away
i think that's the best way i think that's that's how i'm thinking it's gonna go um
what are your kind of thoughts on that yeah i i can see the downside if something goes wrong i
can see where just the sentiment against it's gonna flood flood in, right? But I just, I think it's very
interesting because if they are able to pull this off, I think it makes sense. 10 to 20,
they need to gather data. They need to, I mean, there'll be constant releasing updates.
I made this connection the other day. If you think about like when Apple, you know,
was coming out with a new iPhone, like a couple of years ago, I think when they switched the USB-C
charging stuff and like they, they launched, they had a new iOS and couple of years ago, I think when they switched the USB-C charging stuff
and they launched, they had a new iOS
and they had overheating issues
and they had to push out a software update pretty quickly.
I think you're going to see tons of software updates
that have to come out from Tesla.
So for them to launch this with 10 to 20 cars
and actively collect data
and have to get these adjustments made as
it's going. I think it makes sense to, to launch with, with 10 to 20 and not 40 or 50. I think,
I think you're setting yourself up for more failure if you overlaunch, but I also see where,
I mean, if this thing goes off, like, I don't want to say without a hitch completely, but if,
if it goes smoothly, I feel like this could be a very like eye-opening moment too like i think there's both arguments that could
be made there yeah i don't hate that i really don't hate that all right well that brings us
to the top of the hour here i've got a tweet that i just sent out from the Wolf Financial account.
There it is pinned up top with everyone's picks for this week.
Go in there, check that out.
Let us know.
Who do you think is going to win this week?
Is it going to be one of these Tesla picks?
Is it Bitcoin and gold?
Is Jordan's super leveraged QQQ short going to come out?
Silver, we've got Oklo and Toast. We've
got Snowflake and MVTS. There's a lot of interesting picks on here. Let us know who
you think is going to win. Maybe Netflix just flies to the moon. Who knows what's going to
happen? And of course, tune in next week and we will have that back. We'll have the results for
this and we'll run this back next monday see who's
winning and we'll continue the show and of course we have your long picks that we'll update as well
uh which very interesting where we've got a a catch-up play here um gab is chasing ben very
very tightly here on the catch-up um and with that i'm ready to talk some gold here. Gab, are you still around?
Yes, sir.
How are you doing?
I am fantastic.
I know we got that Quantify account up here.
We're going to talk some Bitcoin, some gold, some currency debasement.
I'm going to get that title updated.
Didn't know if you wanted to lead us in there for a second.
I think Sam and Knox are going to hang out and Jordan and talk with us a little bit and see currency debasement.
What's going on?
Yeah, I wanted to get into this.
I feel like it's perfect timing.
David, I actually took BTGD as one of my plays of the week because I personally thought that it's in a really interesting spot right now,
both from a fundamental and from a technical.
I know we're not going to really talk probably too much of the technicals,
but I did want to point out that there was a perfect bounce off the 21 SMA.
I don't know if you pay attention to that stuff when it comes to these,
but to me, that's something that I do look for. And then on the fundamental side, you know,
M can make the case for gold. I mean, he was talking about that piece. I put out a few threads
about gold recently, but we basically reached up. As long as we don't get a triple top here,
I think we're looking pretty good to continue moving up. But essentially, there's a couple of things here. And the biggest thing
I want to talk about is what just was said. And this was posted seven minutes ago by the
Spectator Index. And this is Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent saying the United States will,
quote, never default on its debt, which means what are they going to have to do?
never default on its debt, which means what are they going to have to do? Print a shitload of
money. And so when they do that, your dollar gets devalued and things like gold and Bitcoin
are going to benefit from it. So it feels like perfect timing for that quote to come out,
David. I'd love to. First off, David Jakansk, everybody from Quantify Funds, amazing fund
manager. Check out all these funds.
BTGD is the flagship one, but there's so many more.
We'll get some info posted up top.
Been working with him for a long time now.
Love doing it.
But David, excited to have you on here and get your thoughts.
How's it going, everyone?
Thanks for having me again.
David Jakanski, the CEO, CIO of Quantify Funds.
Our first ETF launch in the fall is the leveraged Bitcoin and gold ETF, ticker BTGD.
I'm sending you some cool charts right now.
I have not yet gotten this through compliance, but this is all public information from the
In Gold We Trust report that comes out each year, which is a couple hundred page reports
of some of the best charts around the world in gold.
around the world in gold.
And I think it's really alarming.
And I think it's really alarming.
Some of these charts,
one from how little of a allocation,
things such as like the institutional
and family office space have in gold allocations,
just one, 2% allocations
when you would think they would have,
you know, at this point,
I would assume most people would expect it.
It's probably closer to five or 10, but it's, it's really not, it's really quite small.
And I'll also show you a couple of charts here that also show like central bank activity over
the last couple of years and how it's really just started to heat up. And so I know a lot of people
look at gold and are going to ask themselves, like, is that rally over? Is it too late to, uh, still do that? But, um, you know,
a lot of the trends here show that this could continue for quite some time. Um,
there's really no alternative to a safety asset.
If in moments of volatility in your economy,
instead of a flight to safety, like we've seen over the last 40 years, meaning sell equities, buy fixed income assets, it's a flight of capital outside of the US.
And that's why we've seen these periods with stocks, bonds, and the dollar all going down at once.
going down at once. We talked about this actually earlier today on the panel. But gold has outperformed
We talked about this actually earlier today on a panel.
equity over the last 10, 15, 20 years only because of its returns in the last couple of years.
And someone asked me, are people waiting for Bitcoin to get adoption as something other than
this theoretical potential store value and actual use case before its real
world mass adoption and price increase happens. And our answer was no, everything changed in 2020.
The US was the best house in a bad neighborhood. It's not what is the best, it's just that the
dollar is the worst. You have to find as many places as possible to find these stores of value.
as many places as possible to find these stores of value. Creating new gold mines is a 10-year cycle
and gold mines at about 1.75% a year, Bitcoin less than 1%. These are both supreme scarcity
assets in a world where a stroke of a pen and all of a sudden, for example, in the tax bill,
a lot of the tax cuts were supposed to
season off and all of a sudden they're getting extended in perpetuity, which is great for
investors, but just bad for the balance sheet of the U.S. government. Yeah, it is a lot of great
points there. And you are talking to the bigger picture, which is the balance sheet and some of
these other pieces. I want to talk about, you know, environments in which gold and Bitcoin can continue to move up
here and get a little bit deeper into the currency debasement idea. So let's look a little bit
forward. There's this big, beautiful bill right now, right? Four trillion dollars, something like
that of spending. There's other spending that's going to continue to come. Walk us down the line,
David, because this is not, you know, this is an ETF that feels like you can trade off news nowadays.
But it does also feel to me more like a long-term hold, kind of letting the vision play out.
So looking past what's happening in the turmoil right now, the next three, four or five years, what do you see continuing to happen?
I mean, we saw Doge come in and try to cut government spending significantly,
and it really just took a little bit off the top. And I do think it's awoken some hopeful future
politicians just for the sake of our country to, you know, get our fiscal situation in order, but really the only way to get out of this debt burden is to
continue to inflate assets. Inflation, printing, hopefully that comes with productivity.
The difference between inflation and stagflation, quite honestly, is wage growth, which is going to
be tied to that productivity. If we see productivity, it's going to be good for assets. It's going to be good for wages. Hopefully, for the average person in America, wages outpace
the asset growth, which is an actual possibility, but your cash is not necessarily safe in that
environment. A lot of people around the world have lived through what this feels like. And in the US, this is really the first
couple of years of us feeling it. And I think a lot of people were and still are somewhat hopeful
that we're going to unwind this mess that we found ourselves in, but it's an urgent problem
that has to be tackled right now. And from everything we're seeing from where tariffs are or where they may not be based on some court rulings and tax cuts, the only way the deficit is going to shrink is if we inflate
our way out of it and it just becomes a much smaller percentage of GDP because we just
increased GDP so drastically.
And that's not true just for the US.
That's true for all developed nations around the world.
You know, you're seeing Germany start to spend more, obviously more on the defense side,
but you're seeing developed nations spend and invest, which is great for growth,
but not good for the value of the U.S. dollar or right now the debts of a lot of these economies.
We're used to seeing fiscal uncertainty when there's too much debt on the corporate
balance sheet. And this time we're seeing it when there's too much debt on the government balance
sheet. And it just feels very different because of that. A very long-winded way to say that it
doesn't seem likely that there's any other path than the devalue of the dollar versus hard assets over the coming years.
Yeah, it's a great rundown there.
And I want to make sure that people can continue to comprehend this concept.
But in simplicity, there's no cap here on the dollar.
It's going to continue to get printed, expand out, lose value over time.
And there are other currencies in place here or things that you know can basically
be pseudo currencies um that do have either a much much much smaller amount that are created
each year or some type of fixed amount right we can basically predict right now with gold
how much can be created and then on the bitcoin side you basically have that 21 million cap about
4 million of those lost really 17 million total and you're not going to have additional created
um there's also like you're seeing this happen with other precious metals as well.
Things catch on, right?
I believe that, was it platinum is continuing to move up?
Pieces like that.
Actually, David, you know who I met in person last week?
Who?
I met Peter Schiff.
Oh, really?
Yeah, I met him at the Bitcoin.
How did that go?
Yeah, so I thought it was super funny.
First off, full respect on him to showing up at that conference.
So much respect for that.
So that's what I thought was funny.
So he had a booth at the Bitcoin conference for his investment firm.
And I was like, this is hilarious.
Peter Schiff bought a booth at the Bitcoin conference to troll the Bitcoiners.
And then I got up to talking to him and I was like, hey, so how this booth come around?
He goes, well, the Bitcoin conference reached out to me to come speak and I said well if you give me a booth
in some hotel rooms I'll think about it and so I guess that they basically uh propped him up because
they wanted it there but I thought it was pretty funny to see him there and I was speaking with
him a little bit about gold and some of those pieces. And even him, by the way,
he wasn't like super, super opposed to like kind of that one, that very, very small person,
in person talking with him, he wasn't super opposed to that very, very small percentage allocation of Bitcoin as well. And also, it sounds like he's only 5-10% allocated to gold
at the same time. So he actually seemed like he wasn't too far apart on the two from,
but you wouldn't tell that from social media. Yeah, you couldn't tell that from social media.
And I don't know if I've shared this clip with you before, but if you take certain clips from statements that Peter Schiff has made and certain statements that Michael Saylor makes, they're pushing the exact same message.
They have a different answer to the best way to hedge against this problem, but they are highlighting the exact same message. They have a different answer to the best way to hedge against
this problem, but they are highlighting the exact same problem. That's one of the reasons why we
thought it was such an interesting pair to leverage these two. It's ironic. If the dollar is going to
crap, the best thing you could do is borrow debt and invest in assets that aren't going to crap.
And we have a 200% 200 exposure here that's half bitcoin
half gold so the irony is we are literally leveraging against dollars and leveraging up
on bitcoin and gold um and you know you're seeing today gold obviously is still this like
ultimate risk off asset bitcoin has some correlation to risk on assets some correlation
to risk off assets it's correlation to risk off assets.
Its beta to the Qs seems to be dropping on the downside significantly.
Again, talked about this a little bit earlier before.
We think it's more of an underlying correlation to overall global liquidity than it is actually
to the Qs and the fact that the Qs also have high correlation to global liquidity.
And so that goes back to, again, printing money, putting liquidity into the
economy doesn't just have to be the US. The tax bill was a big stimulus for the market,
but we've seen other big pushes of stimulus around the world from a lot of stagnant economies trying
to boost their growth. So it doesn't have to just be the US. If the US had their fiscal house in order,
there is a world leader that could dethrone the dollar
in terms of the world reserve currency.
There doesn't seem to be any real talk anymore
about secondary solutions.
At one point, we were talking about the BRICS,
creating that entity,
but it doesn't feel like there's anything
that anyone can feel really comfortable
investing in, and also, if they need to, tapping for liquidity at the right moment if they do
need access to those funds.
I'm totally biased, obviously, with the Bitcoin and gold ETF here.
I'll throw in the ticker one more time, BTGD, but that's why we were trying to time this
launch before the election.
Well put. All right, I time this launch before the election. Well put.
All right, I've been hogging the stage.
Let's work our way around here, get some thoughts from different people.
Sam Sala, do you want to jump in first?
Yeah, I mean, I want to comment on this.
By the way, can you hear me just fine?
Yes.
Okay, cool.
Yeah, no, I want to comment on this.
I mean, I've noticed gold as an alternative asset to having portfolios probably
since covid um there are a lot of people that kind of chasing it during covid and then it
continued to consolidate i mean from a technical perspective looking at the long-term chart
gold has pretty much consolidated for over 10 years up until covid when it went a little pump
and then pulled back created a nasty pump and handle so i mean from a long-term perspective
even from uh even from a technical point,
that's very bullish. But also, even from a fundamental point, as you're saying,
it really is a hedge against the U.S. basically going belly up on its debt.
And as we're seeing the big, beautiful bill, we should have all known that before Trump's
presidency, there was not going to be that much possibility that they would actually be able to
reduce the debt.
So instead, they're going the other way and actually growing themselves.
Versus reducing and paying down the debt.
With that being said, gold saw everything.
It's a secular trend run.
I do agree with you.
I think gold is pretty much going to continue slowly grinding up.
People thought it was going to make its double top, which you did recently and then it came back with a huge day like today so the night kind of changes that
and you can see that even from a perspective on the futures positioning um there's a lot of
hedging from the buying to gold and it can run for really a decade or five years with someone
it's really hard to tell what's going to happen.
But even with Bitcoin, for a while, I did think Bitcoin was somewhat of a leverage call option on the NASDAQ. But we've seen that once you start getting news that
the debt has been increasing, there's more tariffs on the run. Bitcoin does tend to exhibit some
strength. This is actually a very interesting ETF that I actually want to look into myself from that perspective. With the gold, I feel like to make a dramatic move in your
portfolio, the allocation has to be greater than 10%, at least 10, 20%. But I think this might be
some good exposure to people who are bullish Bitcoin as myself to be able to get exposure to
both without breaking the bank per se. But yeah, thank you for bringing this one up to us.
No, of course.
And thanks for the kind comments.
I'll say I think the short-term periods of volatility for gold
will come if there is an actual flight to safety in treasuries
where over a stretch, you know, treasury yields,
30-year yields drop, 50 basis points, 100 basis points.
While there is totally a world where that could exist and could occur,
that's not going to be a long-term case
because we're still going to go back to printing right after
and it's likelihood that yields are going to go up.
Gold got capped historically in the future
because people bought other things,
income-producing assets, treasuries.
That was always the bear case against assets like
Bitcoin and gold. Someone else said this recently, they're like, if you would have just, you know,
went back to 2018 and said, hey, in 2025, you're going to be able to make 5% on treasury yields
and Bitcoin and gold are going to be all time high, they'd say, you're crazy. Why wouldn't you
just take the income, right? there were buyers for treasury debt so over
the last 40 years even as our balance sheet expanded but who is the incremental new buyer
of u.s treasuries outside of a tactical trade right now
good points there sam uh evan i see you jumped in. Are you free to speak, or should I go to Lady Trader first?
No, you're good to come to me.
Perfect.
As I swallow whole what I was eating there, sorry, it was an okay time.
I'm curious on the rebalancing aspect of it.
We've talked a lot about it, and I'm just curious on what that adds to this,
of why they're rebalancing between two assets is important,
how it kind of plays in when we're talking about leveraged assets too i'm just i would love to kind of
rehash that and i have another question too absolutely yeah so it's an actively managed
strategy we're not trying to outperform we're trying to most cost effectively with the tax
consideration uh rebalance the portfolio typically it's done on a five percent drift between bitcoin and gold you
want to leave the drift wide enough that you allow the runs to you know the uncorrelated runs between
the two assets to occur um but also rebalance it enough that it still is going to give you that
pretty close to one-to-one exposure bitcoin and gold we all know what the difference is between, you know, for example,
a stock and bond portfolio over the last 40 years without rebalance and with rebalance.
If you have two assets that are uncorrelated, sometimes negatively correlated,
rebalancing between the two is a very surefire way to, at local extremes,
sell high and buy low on different assets and be able to teeter totter back and forth
because the whole concept of what target funds should do so you know if bitcoin is the risk
gasket of choice and and gold is the risk off asset of choice it's as simple as choosing two
assets we get to a balance between what that means in an etf is leveraged ETFs are not natural forms of leverage. They have the potential to have
a lot of path dependency. You can negate that by regularly trading a leverage ETF to get pretty
darn close to whatever your expected leverage ratio is on that vehicle. But that might take you
rebalancing that position in your portfolio three to four times a week, which, you know, God bless some of you who can do that without emotion, even during the most
extreme markets. But by stacking two assets that have diverse recognition benefits within them,
we remove some of that half dependency. We actually trademarked the phrase leverage for the long run. These stacked ETFs are the only leveraged ETFs
that got through the SEC without the daily use warning,
without a daily use warning in their prospectus
of intended just for daily use.
These are not just intended for daily use.
These are leveraged ETFs that can be held for the long run,
which is why obviously it's still a great trading vehicle.
There's more than enough volatility
to make it a very interesting trading vehicle.
It's also something you can allocate to in your portfolio or model portfolios for clients
because the best institutions in the world use leverage.
This is a very cost-effective way to get that leverage.
The leverage expense trading Bitcoin and gold futures is not that significant,
and it's probably much lower than whatever your custodian will offer you
for margin on your accounts or your client's book.
I see Big B coming up on stage, by the way, as we're talking here.
Evan, did you have any other thoughts on that before I go over to others?
Yeah, no, I do find that very interesting.
And the fact that it was the only perspectives that was able to get through without that warning is very interesting.
No, not the only.
There are other stacked products.
Wisdom Tree has a suite where it's stocks and bonds.
So only these stacked leverage products don't have
that daily use. Okay, gotcha. So that just kind of knocked a much more questions in that direction.
But I was more curious originally about kind of how you do this in a tax-efficient way,
like how this rebalancing, you guys do this. Obviously, if anyone is going to go and do this themselves, they can, and they should be thinking about tax
efficiency. But I'm curious what your kind of guys's thoughts and strategies around that.
Yeah, we shield some of the tax inefficiencies of using futures in a Cayman sub, we do obviously
have to roll the products over. So there is potential for taxes. Last year, we had, I think
we closed at about a 44% total return in about two and a half months and paid about one and a half percent in taxes.
So the tradeoff is the leverage cost versus the taxes.
And there's been some research done in the portable alpha space.
You know, stacking two assets is called a portable alpha approach to leverage.
And typically, historically, the potential for taxes is still, plus the cheap cost of leverage
is usually going to be a much better opportunity than investors can find elsewhere in a taxable
account. Obviously, in an IRA account, that's not an issue at all whatsoever. So we can't put out
any estimates about what our taxes will be but what I would say is we manage it as efficiently
as possible. We take every loss we physically can. We hold some ETFs as well as the futures and
teeter-totter between the two, teeter-totter between different ETFs and harvest some losses
when we can there.
So we're doing everything we can to make it as tax efficient as possible.
So we have a guy who was pretty early in Bitcoin, just jumped up on stage, big beat.
Steven, we're talking about the currency debasement, trade slash investment long-term,
especially with Besson coming out today saying they're never going to default.
They're just going to keep printing um jordan powell stay in a position uh printer powell and so you know talking with david here they have that btgd etf you've probably
seen us talk about on spaces exposure to bitcoin and gold just curious your thoughts here on this
whole currency debasement ideology they have been debasing the u.s dollars since the early 70s right probably even longer
than that and uh yeah thanks for having me guys listen i just got back from the bitcoin conference
in las vegas nevada what what an amazing time that was you know it was interesting i had a few few
interesting comments out of that um the first one i said you know i had to sit down with peter
schiff talking about um the next level of all this.
Peter, hey, dude, you've been Mr. Gold for so long.
And when you talk about currency debasement, I mean, people look to things like that that want to put money away and other things that are alternative assets.
And he said, look, you guys are on a high because you have a president who loves crypto.
You have a Congress that loves crypto. have a pro you have a congress that loves
crypto you've got a very favorable sec now you're on a high why not just sell out now and i'm like
well because look around uh peter the difference is you know 10 years ago the bitcoin conference
was very small uh i think wolf you and i have you been you know i've been at several conferences
ourselves together uh good times but this one was different because we are no longer in the shadows. We're no longer in the
fringes anymore. Look around, Peter. There's Robin Hood right in the middle of this. There's
Fidelity right over there. We're no longer right in the middle of the, you know, fringes of society
trying to figure out how else to build wealth. And I and i found it very interesting and you know i just had
a uh my interview with anthony scaramucci and mooch about uh about an hour ago and same thing
you know look skybridge capital you know these are main funds on wall street that are investing in
bitcoin they're investing in crypto you told me that five years ago i would have said hmm i don't
know we're not that close but i've've been pretty good and pretty accurate about things.
But look at what we're talking about.
We're talking about Bitcoin rails.
We're talking about other ways of investing that's not the normal Bitcoin buying, going to Coinbase and buying some off of the exchanges.
You're now seeing derivatives and options and you're seeing futures off of crypto.
And I love this, especially in the etf world um and and here's something blows my mind you can now
grandma grandpa mom and dad can now buy and put their 401k and put bitcoin away right you tell me
that when we started out when i was buying bitcoin at 75 bucks you know i i don't know i mean this is
just this is a to me it's not uh you know it's
not sound but i i'll invest in some of this right it's kind of like buying a small cap stock back
in the day not anymore this is this is right on it and i love this especially the btgd uh you talk
about the currency debate in general right um this is exactly what they wanted mr you said it right
mr printer himself is talking about it uh the printer goes
burr um we didn't really understand what the printer meant uh until literally kobe came around
right now it's like there's it's not unusual to see the printer go burr in fact right now i think
people are expecting the printer to go burr all the time and we can't do that because eventually
our dollars will be worthless you know i was talking to the former head of JP Morgan's Forex desk. He's on our team,
Steve Flatt again, literally the head of Forex. And he even said himself, you know,
if you told me the Dixie was going under a hundred, it probably wouldn't have believed you.
But with all these tariffs and all these question marks around the world,
we're now seeing gold at 3,,400 an ounce. My fave,
which is silver, going to $35. I said we're going to $43 probably within the end of the year.
Mooch said, look, $25,000, $200,000 to $250,000 on Bitcoin by the end of the year. That means people are nervous. That means people are scared out of their wits. They don't know what the
president's going to say. And I've said this a few times down the show here,
you know, look, if you are a person who, you know,
is pearl clenching your charts, there's no reason to,
because quite frankly, we're living day by day
and by minute by minute on what Trump is tweeting
or what Powell is saying.
And none of it's good.
You have way too many political, geopolitical issues
going on with Ukraine, obviously, and now China talking about Taiwan.
And my goodness, six months ago, I was complaining a year ago.
I was complaining about the ECB and Christine Lagarde, and she was never going to lower rates.
In the old days, and I say the old days, 80s and 90s, the RFED were the one who led with raising or lowering
interest rates.
Today, it's Christine Lagarde now of the ECB setting the precedences now.
That's not normal.
So we're not living a normal life, normal institutions.
And because of that, they are going to alternative.
And I love this BTGD especially.
And I love what you guys are doing because you're bringing this to the forefront.
You know, I had a very dear friend of mine rick who was the head of morgan stanley in california uh two years
ago said steve uh give me a stock to buy uh or something to invest in but please god don't say
bitcoin okay sorry rick bitcoin um today now he asked me how do i invest in bitcoin my wife who's
never been in the crypto space asked me me, how do I buy Bitcoin?
When we're seeing Main Street now telling us, hey, I don't know what to do.
And you're saying buy Bitcoin.
That's taking it out of the hands now of just the friend of us and then putting it in the hands of Main Street.
And I've said it all along.
I think we've got a quarter million by summer of next year.
No problem. And I would never sell any along. I think we've got a quarter million by the, by summer of next year, no problem.
And I'm still, I would never sell any of the Bitcoin I have.
And I'm not a Bitcoin maximal.
So I believe in Solana and Ethereum and other ones too as well.
But I think this is right.
And I'm tired of the printer going burr.
It's time we got to stop.
We've got, we as a country need to realize that whenever we make the printer go burr,
you're making everybody else very popular.
Every other country.
Man, David, I think he's made the case.
Yeah.
I need to know who your grandmother's custodian is
because that's awesome that she can allocate
to Bitcoin or 401k.
I say that joking because, you know,
everyone looks at the price of Bitcoin and gold
and it's like, oh man, maybe I missed it.
But as you said, the printer going burr,
like it's not how much we printed or choose to print in the future it's just based on we've what we've already
promised we will print the printer is going for all day every day um and the amount of 401ks that
actually allow you to invest in bitcoin the amount of 401ks that actually allow you to invest in gold
or the amount of bitcoin and gold on the institutional balance sheet being small percentage points under like one two percent um you know
there's a long way to run for these to be fully adopted as like the only game in town outside of
equity markets to find any stability and that's where it looks like we're heading and i mean
obviously silver and ethereum solana are all interesting assets, too. I tend to look at what is the risk or store value asset of choice within the category.
And those are like the cream of the crops and everything else is like a minor to that.
Obviously, silver tends to lag gold initially and will perform worse in truly volatile markets.
will perform worse in truly volatile markets gold has a better chance of protecting in the downside
Gold has a better chance of protecting in the downside.
um so this is like the first derivative you know best asset in the digital and physical space
yeah you know it's you know what's interesting as long as we've been in this game you know
when you look at the printer going bird now normally what would happen is that they would
slow down the qe right but what they're not not doing is they're also not burning the cash on the other side, right?
They're not removing some of the older stuff out there, too.
They're letting it all, and they're not really taking the balance sheet down either.
And on top of all of that, Moody's downgrades the United States once again.
None of these are good.
I mean, this is a really, really bad situation.
Yet a lot of people, especially younger investors, are kind of ignoring the warning signs that many of us are so used to listening to.
And with social media, as tight as it is, and places like this with Wolf and Gab and the team, a great team here, that sometimes you have
to take a step back and actually listen to what they're saying. Because quite frankly,
quite frankly, he's telling you. Hal is telling you exactly what's going on. We have, we are
living in, and we are part of stagflation. Inflation is still being high, unemployment
going up. Now, it's not going at the rate that many of us think are going to happen,
but we've been living in a recession. because of all of this you're absolutely right
this is not a normal time and because of that um bitcoin is going to flourish throughout this whole
this whole time and on the uh credence of pairing with gold we have a a nice write-up
um on our website we're actually going to
refresh that hopefully tomorrow with some new graphs as well but we have a very fun graph just
showing how gold performs when bitcoin has drawdowns of greater than 15 percent and it's very
good sometimes it's up three percent sometimes it's down two percent the last two times we've
seen in the last six months gold has been up quite significantly in that period um and again whether it's our etf the btgd etf
or you do it on your own uh you have to rebalance some of these extremes uh in the most emotion
filled moments of the market when volatility is screaming and we're having these
nine percent performance days um in the s p as we saw in april uh so this is a very pre-packaged
easy way to remove that emotional decision to have to make the difficult rebalance yourself
so yeah nicely put lady trader you want to jump in? Any thoughts or questions here?
Yeah, just a few comments. I mean, when we talk about Bitcoin and gold, those are like the two
best assets that you could have, right? The safest ones out there. Of course, I'm also just like
Big Beat, I'm not just a Bitcoin maxi. I do believe in a lot of other assets that are in blockchain.
So Solana, Ethereum included, and quite a few others like that.
But what I'm getting to is that pretty much this, you know, Bitcoin and gold, both of
them are providing us a way to kind of hedge against inflation and then also currency debasement.
One thing that I would also like to call out, gold, you know, there's a scarcity there,
right?
There's no printer that could go and print unlimited amount of gold for us.
There's a limited supply there.
When we talk about Bitcoin, there's one thing that I always like to bring up.
It's that there is only going to be 21 million total Bitcoins ever mined.
And of course, every four years we go through this halving there,
the rewards, the mining rewards are cut in half. So now essentially you are cutting down the
circulating supply that's going to be out there year after year after year. And we are still so
new to Bitcoin. I mean, gold has been there for ages. And so pretty much everybody understands the value of gold.
When you talk about Bitcoin, that's digital gold, easier to store, decentralized, all of these great things about it.
If you are careful enough, people can't really steal it from you.
You know, of course, you have to be cautious with it.
But it's easier for me as an investor to actually have Bitcoin in my portfolio than gold
because it's easy for me to store and keep it protected. Also, since we are so new to it,
the potential is pretty unlimited here because there are actually more millionaires in the world
than there is, you know, total supply of Bitcoin, which is not even going to be mined in our
than there is total supply of Bitcoin, which is not even going to be mined in our lifetime.
lifetime. It's going to take a long time for the entire supply to be mined. And there are more
millionaire in the US dollars than there are total supply of Bitcoin. And so if every millionaire
decides, okay, I want to have exposure to Bitcoin and I want to buy one Bitcoin, we just cannot
accommodate them at all because there's just
not enough Bitcoin to accommodate all of them. And a lot of them would want to have more than
one Bitcoin in their portfolio. And so when you consider all of these factors, the ROI potential
is phenomenal with Bitcoin. And so I really have a lot of respect for all of the companies that
are actually combining these
two assets. You know, you're talking about the gold and digital gold, essentially, right,
Bitcoin, and then providing us exposure to those. And then also a big thanks to Wolf Team,
because if it was not for you guys, I would not have known about BTGD. I wouldn't even be looking
at it. And so thanks for bringing these really awesome assets to us and also all
the awesome discussions that happen on these spaces and so much knowledge that's being shared.
But I'm overall bullish on both of these assets. I think we are going to see incredible value.
Of course, Bitcoin goes through these four-year cycles, all of these things. But now with
a lot of institutions involved, these cycles are going to get better.
And especially when it comes to the bear market, we're not going to see a crazy downtrend on
Bitcoin, maybe a 50 percent, 60 percent pullback after this one cycle is over, which we are
entering now. I don't think there's going to be much of a pullback, but there's going to be so
many opportunities still, I think, in the next, you know, I would say maybe four years.
And then after that, we are really going to start to see a much bigger uptrend on Bitcoin because everyone is going to want to have some exposure to Bitcoin.
And of course, you know, once the millionaires decide all of them want to have a few Bitcoins in their portfolio,
portfolio and then all the other investors who have pension funds and everything else want to
and then all the other investors who have pension funds and everything else want to have exposure to it.
have exposure to it. So it's incredible that there are assets available to allow people to get
exposure to both Bitcoin and gold, you know, in TradFi. So yeah, that's just what I wanted to add.
Thank you. That was really well said. And honestly, the amount of platforms for financial advisors
that actually are allowed to buy Bitcoin for their clients
in a discretionary fashion is so tiny.
And in just 17 months of Bitcoin ETFs, they own 5% of all Bitcoin, just US listed Bitcoin
ETFs, 17 months.
They own 5% of all Bitcoin that will ever be printed.
And again, the adoption will be greater and
greater from a lot of these platforms we believe obviously as the price goes up and a question for
you or for big beat uh you know i'm i'm also bullish on other crypto assets outside of the
bitcoin space but i guess what i would ask you is do you you see the same store value potential?
Or are they platforms where blockchain adoption will thrive and flourish?
And is that different than a store of value?
And that was one of the logics we had in terms of just pairing just Bitcoin and just gold here,
because we were looking at these purest forms of store of value.
We're looking at these purest forms of store value and the scarcity component that Bitcoin has was what we were most drawn to in this.
Yeah, absolutely. So Ethereum is almost like silver is how I view it, right?
But then another thing is that when we talk about user adoption and, you know, more money flowing in, especially from the retail and other sectors,
about user adoption and, you know, more money flowing in, especially from the retail and other
sectors. When we are talking about blockchain and Web3, you pretty much have to onboard people in a
way where they cannot even tell the difference that they are being onboarded, which is essentially
what you're doing, right? You're allowing people to invest in both Bitcoin and gold without having
to create, you know, a wallet, without having to create a centralized account, without having to
go figure out where they can buy gold that's authentic. All of those troubles are basically taken away from them and you're
providing them an easier way to kind of be exposed to both Bitcoin and gold. And Ethereum has that
similar potential with the kind of products that we are seeing, especially like with AI, RWAs,
all of these, right? So some of these other blockchains are
going to drive user adoption in a way where users don't even see that it's happening. I'm seeing it
a lot more in AI where people just are basically downloading an app. There is, you know, there are
certain things that are happening also in the real estate sectors. One in particular, it was an AI
focused app. And it's like, okay, we are onboarding all of these real estate agents.
None of them actually know anything about crypto. They know that there is Bitcoin,
but they don't understand how to buy Bitcoin or any of that. They are just downloading the AI app,
interacting with it. But all this AI app is actually powered by blockchain, but it makes it so much easier for them that they are able to interact with it easy. And they are being
onboarded into AI, which is Web3 aspect, and then also blockchain. But they don't even see that it's happening in the back end.
So I think that when it comes to user adoption, there are so many products that are being built
and you can't really use Bitcoin all the time just because of the transaction fee and everything else.
Ethereum, Solana, some of these other chains are going to be more useful just because the gas fee
is very small, right?
Ethereum, we can debate about the gas fee all day long.
But Solana, super cheap, right?
Some of the other chains, super cheap.
So that is going to allow us to basically do transactions and things like that.
And, you know, without having to spend time because Bitcoin transactions take time.
Bitcoin transactions take a lot, you know, a lot in gas
fee. And so you are basically sometimes when it comes to user adoption and products, you got to
look at those other chains because you just cannot build on Bitcoin. There are going to be other
chains and there are already some of the chains that are almost like, you know, you can call it
Bitcoin layer twos that are, you know, creating some value for investors, you know, where there are products that are being developed on there. So Bitcoin, again, stays there. But I think great use cases for Ethereum, Solana, and some of the other ones out there. So I'm also interested to see what what Big Beat has to add to that.
Nailed it. I mean, you know, there was two things that I think when you go to the exhibit hall this week or last week was the number of miners.
And when I ask people how much Bitcoin has been mined so far, most of all can't answer that question.
It's about 93%, right? You're totally right. With 21 million, and we will never see that 21st million in our lifetime ever mined, right?
There's just no, the computers aren't there there the quantum computer can't handle it either um and i and i spoke to a lot of
people that were in the energy sector this is the first time that i had ever seen um not just people
trying to put windmills up and solar panels but people that were actually chevron and exxon were
there because they knew that energy is going to be
the next level of all of this. And people don't understand that Bitcoin just isn't just some store
of value, but it's also that's based on energy usage. And I think the next level of all of this
is the rails, right? The level twos of this. Now, as everybody here knows, I'm building the next big
right? The level twos of this. Now, as everybody here knows, I'm building the next big Bloomberg
machine quiz, our markets with Web3 and the backend of that nature too as well. But I don't
want to build it on the rails of just DeFi. I want to also do trade fight too, right? Everything I'm
putting in, you know, I'm installing, you know, futures and options on the rails as well. And
doing all of that, it's going to be not just
Bitcoin it's you're right it's got to be Solana and I'm not a big fan of a theory when it comes
to microtransactions but all of this uh interestingly enough is based on quantum
computing now what was interesting to me was listening to and most people here know I'm not
Republican I'm more of a Democrat than anything but was listening to jd
vance speak and he said something to me that was extremely and i actually stopped to listen to what
he had to say because most of it's nonsense what he talks about but the one thing he said was for
those of you in the audience you think that bitcoin is right leaning you think ai is left
leaning and quantum computing is somewhere in the middle. And he said, that's not true.
If we should all be together because all of it's going to work together and we want to lead in the world, being a US country, we want to lead in the world. And he's right. Without quantum computing,
we're not going to have the next level of Bitcoin and crypto, right? If we don't continue to build
new types of cryptos and faster rails, we're not going to have a need for quantum computing.
And AI is, I mean, I don't even use Google anymore. I don't even know what Google is anymore
because I made me find a map. So all of these things are going to be based on the crypto that
we use. But that's right. I don't walk around and buy clothes and food and housing with bits and
pieces of silver and gold that I own in the house
We got to buy with something else, right? And I think I think when you look at the future
And I asked Mooch this too as well and I asked Peter Schiff in the future
What do you think is going to be the biggest market cap?
Is it going to be crypto itself in general all of crypto?
Is it gonna be AI all of AI or is going to be quantum computing and he said it's
ai right he said it's going to be how we live and breathe every single day and when we i even when
i onboard it's about not even understanding how the back end works i think you're 100 correct
because people don't even want to know how the technology works they just want to make sure that
it works and they can pay what they want and buy what they want to buy um you know 30 years ago there weren't uh
credit cards the way that we use them today right and now we just take a phone and touch things and
boom it we get payments but in the future it won't even be that it'll be blinking our eyes
and using our fingerprints and it'll all be crypto and web3 in the back end so we're not even the
first ending of the first pitch i mean it's just it's so awesome that what kind of world do we live in right now
yeah if i could add one uh stat here from this gold report i think that was really interesting
so central banks have been in a positive uh purchase of gold since pretty much 2010.
From 2010 through 2020, they fluctuated from mainly right around 20% of all gold mined was purchased by global central banks.
It ranged from 10% to 20%, really mainly 15% to 20% for about a 10-year period.
For the last three years, again, this stat i'm mentioning is what percent of gold
mine each year is being purchased by global central banks that number is close to 30 for
the last three years um and there's no reason for that to stop buying because they're not gonna they
don't feel as comfortable buying us debt right now so now i don't mean to divert the conversation
from uh bitcoin but just
tying it back to gold as well so right here's something here's what's very interesting and we
talk about the central banks buying um for many many years obviously it was the united states
but the biggest buyer about two years ago was china today one of the biggest buyers is poland
uh because quite frankly these are the countries that are scared right so these countries that are worried about the next level of you know geopolitical issues they're buying gold and
at some point they're not going to be they want to buy bitcoin behind that too i mean i think i
think that you're going to see all of that yeah absolutely right
yeah a lot of great points made um i know we are going to move to wrap up soon but to be honest i
love having these conversations i think what they help people do is to build conviction over time.
Jesse, I want to make sure we got to you. I'm sorry I didn't call you earlier. It looked like
you were off stage to me, but I do see you're on stage now. Do you want to jump in with some
thoughts on currency debasement and how you see this going forward in the future?
Yeah. Hey, thanks for having me on. I've actually been long gold and silver,
physical stacking and buying ETFs and stuff since the late 80s, clear back when Bush started printing money with the stimulus checks.
I just want to add a couple things on the BTGD.
I ran into it last year when it first came out.
And David, correct me if I'm wrong, but when I was doing the equations and everything, the cool thing about it too, besides how it's leveraged, is for every dollar that you buy, you actually get $1 worth of Bitcoin and $1 worth of gold, which is pretty cool.
And David, correct me if I'm wrong, but when I was doing the equations and everything,
So that part of it's pretty neat.
I truly think that the treasuries are going to run into trouble.
People are going to want to quit buying the U.S. debt.
I was actually speaking to a junior miner company the other day, and they're already sold all their gold for 2025.
So anything they're producing now has already been bought and sold.
And I know some other gold miners have reported, too, that most of 2025 has already been bought.
So – and, of course, you know,
we can discuss Bitcoin. We know how much Bitcoin's being, uh, being mined. So I would say if you're
not too sure about how to invest in gold and Bitcoin, BTGD is the answer. Um, it keeps it
simple. Just one, one fund and it's gonna, you're going to get all the upside with it so that's all i have to really say
man you're hired i think you said that better than i ever have so thank you thank you david
but am i correct on that two to one david for every dollar you get one bitcoin and
exposure and one gold exposure
david you're muted one gold exposure?
David, you're muted.
You are correct. Sorry, guys.
Sorry.
Yes, you are absolutely correct.
It's 200% total exposure, $1, $1 in Bitcoin, $1 in gold.
This is called a portable alpha or capital efficient approach.
Right.
We didn't create something new. This
has been a flourishing category in the ETF space for probably three years now. We adopted it in
the Bitcoin and gold space. This also isn't just new over the last three years. PIMCO has been
doing portable alpha for decades in the mutual fund world in their stock plus portfolios where they leverage
stocks and tops on top of bonds and rebalance between the two. So it was just really taking
that concept and applying it to Bitcoin and gold and looking at the benefits of the correlation
between Bitcoin and gold and a common theme of scarcity that we thought would become more
prevalent. And quite honestly, like, you know, we were writing ads in November last year about like currency debasement,
and all this stuff. And people were like, Yeah, I don't, I don't know, I don't really know if
that's like the story for Bitcoin and gold. They're like two separate things. And now everyone's like,
currency debasement, I get it, Bitcoin and gold. So we're really happy and full well,
not happy for the situation our government is in,
but it seems like people are understanding the connection better. So this is not a new process.
This is an institutional process that mathematically makes a lot of sense to apply
to two assets that have diversification benefits. For us, it's also finding a common investment theme,
and that was the scarcity and currency debasement hedge.
Yeah, thank you.
The only thing I may add before we get off here is if anyone on here does physical stacking of gold or silver or doesn't understand what premiums and stuff you should pay, shoot me a DM.
I'll be happy to walk you through that.
And I personally think if you're physically stacking silvers,
the better buy right now.
I think the gold to silver ratio is 101 to one.
So that's about all I have to say right now.
Yes, Tim?
I mean, I just wanted to say that Bitcoin has made a pretty decent move since we started this space.
So I don't know if maybe we're just providing a lot of knowledge to crypto bulls out there.
But yeah, keep the party going, man, because I got a lot of crypto exposure myself compared to my portfolio.
So thank you for having us, David. Appreciate it.
So thank you for having us, David.
Appreciate it.
Yeah, David, is there, first off,
is there anyone else that wants to chime in?
Any other thoughts from the panel?
Emp, Jordan?
Emp, you got any thoughts on the group setup?
I'll just say, I remember when this asset came out
and we were looking at it when the charts first started out.
Great timing, by the way, on that.
We love taking a look at the product.
I think AMP actually owns some.
I have a few people in my chat from my streams that have actually taken a little part in it as well.
And they're doing well on it.
So just love hearing about the thing.
It's just super unique with it being 100% exposure to Bitcoin and gold.
So we love watching it. We love keeping up to date with it. 100% exposure to Bitcoin and gold. So we love watching it.
We love keeping up to date with it.
Appreciate the team.
And yeah, I just appreciate you guys coming on and educating the audience and putting
it on everybody's radar.
Of course.
If I could just, before we wrap up, please give us a follow to Quantify Funds.
Please subscribe to our research, QuantifyFunds.com.
We have a paper that I alluded to that we're going to be updating hopefully by end of day
tomorrow.
It's called The Case for Bitcoin and Gold, where we go through BTGD and compare it to
two times gold, two times Bitcoin, gold miners, junior gold miners, leverage gold miners,
gold miners, junior gold miners, leverage gold miners, micro strategy, MSTY and MSTX.
And you look at all the derivatives products in the world that encompass Bitcoin and gold.
And what you'll see is we have the absolute highest Sharpe ratio of all of them.
We are just trailing behind micro strategy and returns, but you're getting almost as much return as just
micro strategy which again there you're dependent on this premium uh with a fraction of the risk the
risk level of btgd is just above bitcoin itself and that shows that diversification benefit it's
not the volatility of gold plus the volatility of Bitcoin because the rebalancing aspects of it have been so beneficial.
And you'll see if you look at it in like a risk return curve,
again, BTGD will stand out like a sore thumb out of there
because it has been the highest sharp ratio of the entire bunch.
So as you guys alluded to, we're just trying to provide this in a really simple way
that you can allocate models to, especially retirement models to, in a very simple fashion.
And you don't need to watch it and worry about rebalancing it every single day because we take care of that within the fund.
Well put.
Yeah, that's a huge part of it we didn't even talk about, but really removes a lot of the mental side of it because they'll rebalance it for you.
So sometimes we might get caught up.
We say, hey, gold's going on a huge run here let me allocate more to gold but
then you would have missed that huge bitcoin run right so it helps have someone who takes the
emotions out of it amp i'll turn it over to you to any other thoughts and it closes out
yeah no i i mentioned i just the gold chart itself looks extremely, extremely bullish. The Bitcoin one does too. I
think it needs a little bit further pullback, but it's like gold's just leading it just a little
bit. So maybe we see just a little liquidity sweep a little bit lower. But my question that
kind of triggered in my mind there, David, was where do... I'm on board the gold and Bitcoin, especially for the currency and inflation side of things, because as we mentioned earlier, I just it doesn't sound like this money printer ever stops.
And honestly, that's that's on a global stage, too.
I don't want to just think about the U.S. when I think about that and make that statement.
I think the entire world currency is every country
continuing to print and devalue. We saw it with Argentina not too long ago, them trying to save
themselves. They basically devalued by half. They cut their currency in half, or if you look at it
from their perspective, they doubled the value of their currency recently. But you mentioned the
gold miners and Bitcoin miners and some of that.
Where does that fit into the picture here?
I know it's not in this fund,
but just I was curious your thoughts
when you mentioned that.
Yeah, I mean, again,
I think there are interesting ways
to expand your allocation
to assets such as Bitcoin and gold
to get their miners.
I think anyone who is trading
miners seriously would tell you, you probably want to have your actual gold allocation as your
anchor to your portfolio and trade your miners around it. But miners, as we heard earlier,
a lot of the miners have already sold their gold. Who knows?
It's the same thing as the oil companies.
They are locking in their prices now.
That's of benefit to them to recognize that now in case the value does go down.
They're looking at it from a dollar success perspective.
So can they find more gold to mine?
There's all these inefficiencies with miners. I think in short periods, if you're trading tactically, you can
make short, you know, high returns with a higher beta product. But when you'll see the risk return
chart, you know, gold miners haven't returned more than gold. They've just been more risk than gold.
And the purest forms of gold exposure has just been gold. Of all the gold options,
gold has the highest sharp ratio. Guess what gold of all the gold options gold has the highest sharp ratio
guess what of all the bitcoin options bitcoin has a highest sharp ratio and then combining the two
assets that are uncorrelated with the highest sharp ratio has an even higher sharp ratio with
btgd so again if you're tactically trading them that's okay but i would expect your mark your
your allocation to something like miners should be a percentage of your gold allocation, if that makes sense.
Because there's still equities, right?
There's still margins that can compress in the face of volatility and huge drawdowns and huge volatile moments.
They're just not going to have any store value at that moment.
Go ahead, Steven yeah i'd love
to hear your perspective as well you know i i'm always asked when to buy gold and when to sell
gold and for me the answer is about it's always stacking gold and stacking silver but if you
really want to know when to sell your gold it's very simple turn the tv on and watch bloomberg
or cnbc whatever your favorite shows are and whenever you see gold miners or gold people trying to sell gold to you on tv in ads they're
trying to sell their gold right they want out so yeah but that's when i usually open to sell
this is the worst phrase in wall street but this time is different because the printer goes bird
just like you said right like the difference is, it's not a phenomenon from like a corporate overspending too much debt on the
corporate balance sheet. This is the government.
And that's not changing anytime soon.
So I would actually disagree with you in this one case like that.
It's going to be on TV and then it will continue to go higher.
Yeah. I thought when Costco started selling it,
I thought maybe that was the top for gold and
obviously it wasn't right no you're totally right i mean they're going to continue to push it i'll
tell you something else that's very interesting too is that we actually have a president of the
united states who loves crypto but he loves gold too i mean gold toilet i mean you've got a president
now that just likes to hold assets and you know mean you've got a president now that just likes to
hold assets and you know when you've got that that whole feeling like i said peter shift told
me that today or last week hey you know what um this is not a bad thing for the for the for people
to do is to actually buy and hold things as opposed to selling them the second they buy it
and sell it and turn it around and i love like these ets or BTGD. I mean, I love this stuff, man. This helps people understand
investing and not FOMO trading.
Jesse, were you going to jump in with a comment there before we close out?
Yeah. Going back to the miners, gold and silver miners are about the same as Bitcoin miners.
They lag the price, but also you got to be careful with the – especially the gold miner stocks because as oil prices go up, their profitability goes down because of the cost of fuel.
I know beginning of the year, some of the miners were saying that it costs between $1,700 to $1,800 to mine an ounce of gold.
And that's when fuel costs are down.
So that's something else to keep in mind if you're going to play the miner stocks.
Keep in mind what the oil price is and that as the oil and fuel costs go up, their profits are going to go down, and they're always going to lag.
Like David said, they're going to lag what it is because they're going to lock in their price now.
So if they got all their gold sold now at what the price is and gold takes a big shoot and shoots up, let's say, another $500, you're not going to see that miner stock follow suit with the rise because they've already sold their gold.
Yeah. that minor stock follow suit with the rise because they've already sold their golds yeah great points sir i appreciate everyone that joined this evening gab any final comments for you before i close this down no i think you guys nailed it i appreciate you joining up steven as
well i messaged you pretty late thank you to lady Lady Trader, Emp, Sam Solid, Jesse for coming on. This
is one of the first ones I've really got to talk to you. Evan, always a steady presence on spaces,
a force to be reckoned with. Jordan, Big J, and of course, David from Quantify Funds. This was
awesome. I feel like I come away from these spaces with just deeper conviction. Full disclosure,
I hold this. I have friends and family that hold this. And so it's something that excites me. feel like you know i come away from these spaces which is deeper conviction um full disclosure i i
hold this you know i have friends and family that hold this and so it's something that excites me
and not something i really talk about on spaces if i if i didn't personally believe in it so
always great working together with david and uh excited to do more of these we're gonna have did he rug for anybody else or is that me
no not just you oh i thought it was uh yeah i just got no i just got a uh a text that said he
got he got rugged somehow so i know he was gonna say something just absolutely fantastic there so
uh whatever wolf was going to say there whatever gaff was gonna say uh it was a thousand percent
fantastic and we're gonna get back up here because I want to hear what it was.
Maybe, maybe not.
I thought he was requesting back up. I thought we were going to get him back up here, but maybe that's it.
I tell you what, that was a great hour talking currency to basement.
Once again, big shout out to all the speakers that joined us. I would encourage you to go follow all of them,
and especially that Quantify account that you see up here on Sage Quantify Funds.
You can go to QuantifyFunds.com and read the full prospectus on this great launching point.
If this conversation piques your interest at all,
it's something that you want to put on your radar.
It's definitely been on my radar uh i know jordan several others up here have been uh been fantastic we are going
to talk uh one more time about this on thursday there yes i know that's what i know you wanted
to shout out our space thursday because we are going to continue this conversation yeah thursday
11 30 a.m eastern on wolf trading We are going to have a space with David.
And for that one, we're actually just going to solely focus in on gold for that one.
So let's go gold.
Big days ahead.
And we're going to talk about that more on Thursday.
Beautiful.
All right.
Appreciate everyone that joined and tuned in all throughout the day today.
Great full day of spaces here on the Wolf family of networks, I should say.
It almost sounds like ESPN, right?
Wolf family of networks from Wolf Trading to Wolf Crypto.
We have Wolf Sports, all kinds of stuff.
Steven, any final comments?
I saw your hand.
Oh, maybe he was just waving goodbye.
I saw a hand go up there.
Either way, appreciate everyone that joined in today.
Great conversations all throughout the day.
We record every one of these spaces.
You're always able to go back.
If you just go to our timeline, you can find those spaces.
You can listen back to them at any point.
Every once in a while at nighttime when I'm going to sleep, I'll go back and say,
hey, maybe I missed something.
I'll turn it back on and listen to it.
We'll be live first thing in the morning, 8 a.m.
Eastern on Wolf Trading for our future show tomorrow.
That's the next thing on our schedule.
Full day of spaces tomorrow.
A lot of great conversations.
Make sure you check that pinned tweet on Wolf Financial.
And with that, I'm going to sign off for the night.
What a great Monday.
Hope you have a great rest of your afternoon, evening, night, wherever you are in the world.
Thanks for tuning in.
We appreciate you.
And we will see you guys tomorrow.
If you guys are ESPN, who's Stephen A. Smith?
Ooh. Do you want that? We can give you that title. I don't know.
Please no. Please.
I feel like that could be good or bad. I mean, the success that he's had, but also
on the other side, you know, the polarizing side of things. We definitely have, I'll say this, like on our Stocks on Spaces,
we definitely have one or two, you know, kind of Stephen A. Smith type,
you know, characters over there.
So I think you'd rather be Stephen A. than maybe one of the others.
But either way, we'll see.
I know I'm watching ESPN2 right now.
We've got College of Baseball on.
That's the rest of my evening.
David, appreciate you once again.
Look forward to chatting with you on Thursday.
And we'll see everyone tomorrow morning.
Take care, everyone. .
