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Data driven emotion with AI
Recorded: Nov. 16, 2023 Duration: 0:58:29Space Recording
Full Transcription
Can you hear me?
Testing, testing.
Am I being heard?
Oh, all right.
What's up, Humpty?
No, I can't hear you.
Are you speaking?
I think the space is bugged.
I couldn't unmute earlier.
It was giving me the flipper, and then I couldn't get back in.
I couldn't get on.
Oh, Humpty's off now, too.
Let's see.
Let's see if Humpty can get back up here.
Can you hear me now?
Can you hear me now?
Can you hear me now?
Testing?
Yeah, all right, cool.
Man, bugs today, huh?
Double bugs.
That was the longest it's taken to get this technology to work, man.
Jeez.
Dude, I was like, I couldn't unmute my mic at first.
It was giving me the flipper, and then I kept trying to rejoin, and it kept on saying I was
already co-host, and then giving me the opportunity to bring myself up as a speaker.
I was like, this is weird, man.
I've never seen this.
Wait, what?
It was giving you the flipper?
Like, it was flipping you off?
Yeah, when you try to unmute.
No, when you unmute, and it unmutes for just a split second, and as soon as you lift your
thumb up, it mutes you again.
So every time you hit the mute button, you're not actually ever unmuted.
Oh, man, so strange.
Well, GM, everyone, and glad to have finally figured out, I guess, for the moment, some
of the bugs that sometimes happen on Spaces, but yeah, let's get this started.
Actually, I see some friends in the audience.
Feel free to raise your hand.
I'm tuning in from my desktop, so I can't see if you're raising your hands.
I can't see if you're asking to speak, so I've made Donnie a co-host.
I'll keep my balls on it.
Yeah, thank you.
But yeah, I see friends in the audience, obviously, CryptoSapiens.
I see Danny.
So if y'all want to come up here and jam, please do.
Love to hear what y'all are doing today.
As usual, this space is, at least most times, this space is pretty open, and we kind of discover
the topic along the way, and then we kind of just jam on that for a little bit and move
on if we absolutely need to.
So with that said, I see Polaris joining us, so I don't know if he's asking to speak, but
if he is, let's bring him up.
Donnie, how's your week going?
We're on Thursday now.
How's your week been, I suppose?
I think it's been pretty good.
As usual, just kind of like a flurry of a lot of different things going on.
I've been talking a bunch with a company that's trying to launch a DI or an SS, like a self-sovereign
ID company that incorporates AI tech, and I'm still trying to figure out what that's all
about.
Sounds like it's going to be mobile app-based, and I'm just poking around that, and I launched
a charity auction, the first of 59 of them to occur over the next two years, and the
auctions are of pieces that I drew, and all of the proceeds go 90% to ordinals and Bitcoin
core development funds.
So really excited to see if that takes off or if we can raise some money for some cool
causes.
Other than that, I don't know, the usual bar stuff, I guess.
How about you?
Yeah, doing pretty good.
I mean, I'd love to hear more about the auctions.
I'm on your profile right now on your page, and I'm seeing there what it is that you're
talking about.
That's pretty rad.
Also, a big fan of your swag.
I'd love seeing the hats that you put out there.
You sold out already.
Like, they're all gone.
I just, I gave them, I basically allocated them to people I'll be bumping into at Art
Basil.
I only ordered 25 of them, and I just put up a post saying, if I'm going to see you in
Art Basil in Miami, just hit me up, and I'll write the name on the inside of the hat, and
I'll make sure to get it to you.
And people, like, my DMs just got flooded right away.
So I shipped a few out to friends, and now we only have camouflage left.
And sorry about that, Humpty.
I also don't wear camouflage, typically.
Yeah.
You know, I saw the colors, and the coral really looks beautiful.
But I don't know if I can pull off such a loud color, and I know definitely I wouldn't
wear camos.
I might have a coral left.
If I have it, I'll ship it out to you.
I'll ask you for your address.
Like, I might know when I get home today.
So it's possible.
Yeah.
It definitely looks like a very cool summer hat.
Something that I would wear off.
I love the tone of those Adams hats.
They also have leather adjustable straps on the back.
They're a really great hat, just in general.
So no low-quality garbage here.
You know, that's it, right?
Like, if you're going to make some swag, some merch, make sure that you're making something
you wear.
Too many times have we gone to a conference, and the swag is crap.
Like, I would say, at this point, I have way too many conference shirts.
I use them all as pajamas.
I don't wear them.
Usually not even at the conference.
Dish rags.
I'm not a big...
Yeah.
I use it to dry the car when I'm washing it.
Yeah.
It's like, I don't normally wear logos.
Like, anybody who knows me, like, I am logo-less.
It's probably my sneakers and hats are the only places where I have logos, and I always
tell people, if you want to brand me, give me a really good-looking hat, and that's probably
going to get the most wear, because you and I, Donnie, we know this.
Although you, probably better than I, we're both bald, right?
Like, we shave our head.
But you just put it out to the world, and your head looks lovely.
I get sunburnt or frostbite.
In other words, my head either gets really cold or really hot, and so I normally wear
a hat.
So usually that's the best place to put swag on me.
Well, there's no sun up here in upstate New York, so I don't have to worry about the
sunburn part, but it does get cold.
And I also, yeah, hats are like the one movable item for me.
Yeah, for sure.
And more recently, it's been socks.
So if you have really good socks, also don't give me polyester socks, because I don't want
my feet sweating.
Give me good old-fashioned cotton socks, and I'll wear the heck out of those.
Like, I've been wearing tons of crypto socks, which is probably one of the few places where
on my body where it's, like, pretty loud and colorful.
Most of my clothes are more muted earth tones.
I think anybody who's thinking hard about color design is using loud pieces as accents
rather than the entire, like, I can't wear a shirt that's a noisy pattern.
It just looks silly on me, but I could definitely pull off socks that are noisy.
Right.
Yeah, I mean, I'm looking down at my feet right now, and they're loud, bright, mustard-colored
socks, and I love them because I put these on with my New Balance, and definitely it's a
nice winter color.
You know, I definitely look good against the New Balance subdued colors that I normally
wear, so definitely.
All right.
Cool.
Polaris GM, man.
Great to have you up here.
How are you doing today?
I mean, we'll spend the first 30 minutes of this call just talking about our day.
Socks mostly.
Yeah, man.
Hello, hello.
Yeah, are you wearing socks, Polaris, or are you doing the beach thing and not wearing
any socks or shoes?
Um, actually, I was, like, vibing on what you were saying, bro.
I've been, like, I've had a full socks overhaul, and, yeah, I've been, like, into my new cotton
patterns of socks, you know.
I've got, like, quite a, like, 12 new pairs.
Because I went down to Amsterdam and I found this place, they do, like, 100% cotton, organic
cotton socks, and I just went crazy.
And I knew about the brand before as well, because it was a Spanish brand.
So, apart from that, it's just been, um, it's quite cold up here in England as well.
And, um, you know, just, uh, kind of, like, preparing ourselves for the holiday season,
really.
And, um, looking at, like, I've been, like, working on, with AI lately, um, I haven't been
doing, like, stuff in terms of, like, a lot of, uh, uh, community stuff and, and, um, like,
the way you and Donnie have been smashing it.
But what I have been doing is I've been creating personalized GPTs and, um, why are you laughing
at that?
That sounds like a wonderful task to have taken on.
Bro, it's been amazing.
I've been, like, making my, so I've got, like, a personalized tax, tax GPT.
I've got a personalized, um, a psychotherapist.
I've got, uh, like, a personalized, uh, what's his name, um, uh, like, you know, like, a personalized
a GPT just to, like, make the recipes for me in the way, like, you know, the foods which
I kind of like.
And then I've got a personalized GPT to, like, select the songs for me.
And it's not, like, the way Amazon Music or Apple Music does it.
It's personalized to the, like, you know, to all the, all the levels you can get it
personalized.
So I've been, like, really enjoying that lately.
And I had the community call yesterday.
So I was, like, talking about, um, ETFs and the whole ETF Bitcoin ecosystem.
So those were the highlights for me since the last time we spoke.
That's rad, man.
Well, two things on that.
The first thing I'll say is I love to see just how accessible AI is becoming.
Um, I have for some time been advocating, uh, for AI to become as easy as using Photoshop.
Uh, you know, people are, I guess, some, I won't say most because I haven't spoken to
most people.
But some people, uh, that I've read online, uh, talk about AI as a, as a negative thing
in terms of its replacement, uh, of humanity.
Um, I think that at least, uh, in the foreseeable future, I can't speak for infinity because I
don't have that type of vision.
But for the foreseeable future, I see it becoming a tool, uh, that we can leverage, uh, like
any other tool, uh, to either make our work better, um, you know, to, to, to make it,
um, easier, simpler.
Um, and yeah, this idea of like creating your own GPTs, right?
Creating your own personal assistance.
Let's just use language that's more accessible.
Um, I think it's a wonderful way to go.
And I love seeing the imagination, uh, of people kind of going in terms of what they
can do.
I am a terrible cook.
Um, I think I've said that here before.
I burn water.
Uh, don't ask me to cook for you because you'll probably get like charred something.
It all looks the same color.
Um, but you know, I like the idea of being able to use your GPT to be able to create my
own delicious foods.
Donnie is a wonderful tastemaker when it comes to music.
He's shared his Spotify list with me and it is probably one of the best lists, um, that
I, that I listened to, uh, for what, for, for everything that Donnie says about his like
memory music thing, I I'm calling BS.
Cause like, uh, he's a wonderful tastemaker.
He's curated the music beautifully.
I would love to see a GPT that emulates Donnie's work and accelerates that and just like takes
his music taste to the masses.
There is a Spotify AI DJ now that's, I forget what his name is, but it's something very like
cringy hip, you know, his name's like DJ X or something like that.
Um, but he so far is not doing a great job of finding things that I haven't heard that
I love, but just finds things that I wore out a while ago.
So like, I think the accessible AI department for, for music thus far is pretty juvenile.
And I would love to see that too, because it would take a lot of, I think, you know,
my standpoint of techno optimism, because I wrote that article about it after the space
that we talked about it on, and I think that AI is replacing human jobs that humans don't
want to do.
And it always has, well, technological advancements have always done that.
It's, it's like the jobs that are difficult or dangerous or laborious or repetitive and
don't require human ingenuity, but just require human process.
That's what AI is beginning to replace.
And it's starting to do a really good job of doing that.
Um, I don't think it is where it will be clearly, but I would love to have the, speaking
of being replaced, I would love to have that task taken off my plate because as much fun
as I have finding new music and listening to it, I would have just as much fun if I
didn't have to find it and could just listen to it.
And I could go divert my attention to something else that AI hasn't yet figured out how to
expedite.
So, uh, yeah, I agree with you on that.
Yeah.
And actually that touches a little bit on something that I was going to also wanted to add.
Um, I wanted to keep it positive, but like I, look, I always play devil's advocate,
even with myself, I'll make a statement and then I'll argue with myself.
So it's a pretty annoying trait of mine.
Um, but as much as I love the idea of thinking about like AI as a tool, um, I like, one of
the things I like about humanity is its creativity.
Um, and I don't know if it should necessarily, um, replace, uh, some of the things that we find
fun and do well, uh, in, in my, in this case, I guess I'll, I'll relate it to your, uh, music
curation.
I w I w I think part of the reason why I enjoy, um, the, the music selection, uh, that you've,
that you've curated Donnie is because it comes from you.
So I feel like there's something special about it in terms of like how you hear music.
And for me, listening to that playlist is almost like being able to sit inside your brain for
a little bit and consume music the way that, uh, that you would, and, uh, and try to at
least get close to feeling it the way you might.
And I think AI is just so, you know, sans emotion.
Um, no matter how much it tries to fake it, I really, really would not like to see that
part of, um, humanity be removed or replaced by AI.
It seems to me that most of it is data-driven.
I mean, not, I don't mean most of AI, of course, AI is data-driven, but I think a lot of human
experience is data-driven and the big difference between what AI does and what we do is that
we take in information through our five senses all day, every day.
And we each remember different things about that because of the past context that we have.
AI so far can only read written input essentially, or ways that
we have given it to possibly digest data.
So its data can't possibly be as robust as human data yet.
It can work a lot harder and faster, but it can't take in as much as we take in because
we're sort of built specifically to take in a bunch, a diverse array of information so
that we can survive as a species.
As soon as it can smell and hear and feel sense, like tactile sensations, uh, we don't
stand a chance, but I, but I agree that I don't think it should be replaced.
Like a lot of the things should, maybe should isn't the right word.
A lot of the things that we do that we like doing, we can still do, even if AI does them
faster because we can still do them differently and better or the way we do.
I don't know if there's a future where I'll still be alive, where AI is going to catch up
to the point where human beings' input is no longer somehow, at least different than AI input.
You know, it's, uh, very interesting that the conversation is leading towards this direction
because I was having this talk with my ex, a couple of my students who are like deep into
like, you know, old school accountants and stuff like that.
And we was talking about how experienced individuals who have got like, um, a vast amount of real life
experience, um, when they're given this tool and the way these individuals use that tool,
is not the same as a child, for example, who ends up getting hold of, um, you know, AI,
which kind of like does all the tasks for that child.
And as a result, that child misses out on a huge developmental aspects, which are crucial
for that child's survival in a real, real world's circumstance.
So, yeah, I totally agree that there has to be like a, we need to create like a fine line
between, um, who, how, and what information can be accessible.
So, uh, it's like, for example, when I used to be in school, my teachers would make sure
that I don't use the calculator and they would try to like make me experience the whole process
so that I know what the process is instead of actually just using things from the calculator.
And then once you know the process, you can use the calculator.
And, and at university, I learned this from, from, uh, from one of my lecturers,
which was that like, you know, sometimes you just have to work smart, you know,
and like working hard is not necessarily like, uh, like, uh, like you could work hard in a smart way.
Let's put it this way.
This is a better way of saying it.
And, and, and, and all that energy can be like, you know, um, multiplied if you control,
if you control the processes.
And I think this is where like AI like fits in as a professional who's got like, you know,
all these different fronts, uh, where I'm dealing with like lots of people, I'm supporting them.
Um, um, and that's just like my personal opinion, of course, like everyone's got their own, um,
personalized, uh, uh, point of view.
But like from that, and then also there was another very interesting point that some of my students said
that, that like, you know, they haven't been to an, uh, to an actual live doctor.
They've been having like digital interactions with them.
You know, prescriptions have been like given through digital interactions and stuff like that.
And, and all of these, these, uh, data points are like converging onto this perspective that
you can utilize it, you know, to enhance your productivity.
But there is a fine line between like utilizing it to enhance your productivity, uh, then like
completely losing control over your neural capacity because you're relying on artificial neural
capacity.
So, um, yeah, that's a, that's a huge topic to like, you know, ponder upon.
And then if you, if we talk about like control, then again, then when we talk about control,
then, then again, if it's like siphoned knowledge, then again, we're back onto square one again.
So it's, it's a crazy one.
Um, yeah, one thing I wanted to, uh, respond initially to, um, to Donnie and, and maybe
also, uh, with the context that you added there, Polaris.
So I think I mentioned here before, I don't know if I did, but, um, I went back to school,
uh, started earlier this month in November.
No, sorry.
No, I started in October.
So now we're on week three.
Um, so I w I'm taking a class at MIT, uh, to improve my knowledge of data, data science
and AI, um, really how to accelerate data science with AI.
And one of the first things we're learning is, uh, how machine learning is able to emulate,
um, kind of the way that we would perceive data, right?
So you were done and you were talking about how, you know, much of our experience, uh, you
know, is data around us.
And absolutely it's true.
Like colors are data, shapes and masses are data.
Um, but so I think a lot of these things can be, uh, broken down to, you know, numbers
in a matrix, in a matrix where you're able to, uh, start to create some sort of knowledge
from that data and machine learning can absolutely do that.
One of the things though, that I don't know how, uh, yeah, probably we'll find some sort
of mathematic formula or some way of deconstructing emotion.
Um, but I don't think yet that machine learning is able to, um, kind of deduce reasoning or
gain knowledge, uh, or take emotion as an input.
Uh, but that's just really interesting, right?
Because I think for the most part, and I think, uh, Polaris is something that you were
saying, we are, you know, this is argument about nature versus nurture, right?
We are, uh, beings whose, you know, personality, um, you know, are constructed based on our environment.
Sure.
But also our upbringing, um, where culture plays a big role and, you know, that's a much bigger
topic obviously than we could cover here.
But it's just interesting to consider, uh, as we're having this conversation about, uh,
AI and potentially, uh, you know, kind of, uh, replacing, uh, some humanity level, uh, contributions,
um, you know, because it's the, right now the barrier is emotion, but, um, yeah, I mean,
I think it's just very interesting also to see just the, the rate at which is accelerating.
Um, and also I think allowing us to kind of reflect onto the world, some of our passions,
interests, uh, skills, uh, I'm seeing in the comments here first, uh, said, can you create
a personalized martial art GPT?
Like that to me, like when I think of Polaris, I think of martial arts, right?
So it's really interesting to think that you could have like a personal trainer that is
Polaris in a digital form based on the knowledge that you've been able to accumulate and being
able to share that as well for someone in the future and in some sort of virtual way.
So, because I've been, I subscribe to like things like Peloton and, and the Nike app just
to kind of try them out.
And I can see how they're trying to convert some of those like in-person experiences in
a digital format.
I think this would be a really interesting thing because martial arts obviously has a
bigger spiritual connection too, that goes beyond just like, Hey, just go run and, and
get it over with.
Did someone on mute and want to say something?
Donnie.
I hadn't unmuted yet, but I was just thinking while you were talking that I, I think, I
think I tend to boil down the human experience to something that's a lot more robotic and
less mystical, I guess, than most people where I don't even know if emotions really exist.
I think it's a word for varying levels of self-preservation where like discomfort and pleasure are sought in order
in order to make a decision that is best for the future of the species, as it were.
So like, I don't know, I like being in love because usually being in love means we make more people.
I like avoiding pain because usually avoiding pain means that we get to make more people because we don't lose limbs or get into discomfort somehow.
So like, I think that machine learning can absorb all of these things and it can have emotions without calling them emotions.
It maybe doesn't experience them in quite the same way, or maybe it would somehow.
It would actually probably be impossible to tell if it did because we can never be anything other than us.
I don't even know if you experience emotions in the same way that I do, let alone a robot.
But I think that on a base level, what emotions are and what they do can be replicated by machine learning and robots.
Which I know is kind of an unpopular opinion, but I think it falls into the same category of like fear of replacement by robots.
And this part is like a fear of us being unimportant if robots can technically do the same thing or if we are robots, just made of meat.
Yeah.
Yeah, I'm sure someone is going to be someone very smart or someone's very smart are going to be able to like create some sort of, you know, algorithm or formula that breaks down emotion into some of its kind of more logical parts and then be able to use that deconstructed emotion to train.
I think I'm sorry if I was just talking over.
I can't hear Humpty.
I'm going to go down and come back.
I hear you just fine.
Can anybody else hear me?
Pilaris, can you hear me?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Just Donnie then.
Oh, so weird.
I'm going to have to go and bring him back on in a moment.
So, Pilaris, just share your thoughts on that while I have to walk to the next room to bring him up because I have two different devices running the show.
Yeah, sure.
Donnie's back now.
Donnie, can you hear us?
One second, guys.
Yeah.
So, one thing I've realized is the co-host thing, and I've actually, not because we've experienced it.
This seems to be the first time we're experiencing it.
Whenever someone's a co-host, they seem to be the first to get rugged.
So, Donnie, I've brought you back up, but I don't know.
It still looks like you're a listener on my end.
And Pilaris, I made you a co-host, but I may have just rugged you by doing that.
Maybe no one except the Autology account should be a host.
Can y'all hear me and talk?
Yep.
Yep, I can.
Right.
So, Donnie seems to be a speaker in front of me, but then it seems to be requesting as well.
When I press request, I was just a listener and had a mic button.
Isn't that kind of funny?
But, like.
All right.
Can you hear me?
I can hear you just.
I'm not going to respond to the co-host prompt, because I think every time I do that, it wigs out.
So, now I got rugged, and I just came back as well.
All right.
We're good now.
Yeah.
No one's going to be a co-host today.
No more co-hosts.
Everybody's just going to be a speaker.
Screw that until X can figure out how to fix that, because I know that's been an issue in other spaces that I've been a part of.
What a roller coaster.
Anyway, did you hear anything of what I said?
Was I just talking to the wall, or was I talking over people just now when I was talking about robots being people and people being robots?
Yeah, we missed that.
No, we could hear you.
Well, I could hear you.
Oh, cool.
And I responded to it, but I don't think you could hear that.
No, I missed that totally.
Welcome to the Ontology Thursday talks, where everybody just tries to figure out if they can hear one another.
Right, okay.
We're going to edit that out.
Let's start again.
Donnie, I didn't hear that, bro.
Can you just tell us about your thoughts on why?
Yeah, yeah.
I'll give you the short.
The short is that I think that people are robots made of meat, and that emotions are just our physical motivation to seek replication.
Where pain, avoidance of pain, means that we get to make more people because we live longer, and loving being in love and loving all the things that come with, like, partnership also allows us to make more people.
So, I think they're just evolutionary inclinations, like programs, essentially, to keep us making more of us.
And if we, like, that's kind of all emotions are, is just preservation of species.
We can make a computer do that.
Hell, a computer can probably figure out how to do it itself.
So, let me know how to avoid pain, because since I was a teenager and had a lot of accidents on a skateboard and snowboard, I am in perpetual pain.
Oh, yeah.
I'm not the person for that, by any means.
That's an interesting concept, because when you look at it from a clinical perspective,
it is, at the end of the day, just emotions, which are like, you know, your DNA has information inside of it, and when it's pressurized or it's placed under certain conditions,
then information kind of like, and that's the survival instinct, which has been inside, which has helped us survive and evolve and become the humans we are today.
So, for robots to copy that, I think, like, the aspect of the spirit aspect of the human, that can't be, you can't, like, you know, have a quantity associated to that.
And because of that, I think, the whole AI aspect can be replicated.
And because, but the spirit in a lot of different cultures and a lot of different human understandings, the spirit plays a very interesting role in the human dynamics.
And I think this is where the AI, according to those laws and cultures and understandings of the human being more than a cluster of softwares and, you know, like, that's where the whole thing becomes interesting.
You know, what's funny about that, and I've had this debate with a lot of people, and I don't think anyone's ever going to know the actual answer to it.
I don't think it's possible for us to know. But since we all disagree on what a spirit is, or what a soul is, or if there is a soul, it's not like we all disagree on what hydrogen is.
Because hydrogen is measurable, and we know it.
Spirit sounds to me like a word that is a fill-in-the-blank for things we don't understand about ourselves and the world around us.
And I don't know that that inherently makes those things not data.
It maybe just means we don't have the correct measuring devices for them.
So, like, again, I always default to this, like, everything is data thing.
Yeah, yeah, you're right. My son asked me this question today. He was like, Dad, do you know about dark matter?
And I was like, yeah, it's everything which we can't see.
Yeah, blanket term, right?
You know, all the stuff which you cannot see. So basically, the stuff which binds the stuff which we can see is dark matter.
So it's what 98% of the universe is made out of.
So, yeah, I agree, bro.
It's something which cannot be quantified.
But yet, that not quantifiable attribute makes it quantifiable, which is crazy.
Man, y'all got me thinking about that word, right?
Because I guess there's several different ways you can contextualize spirit, right?
Like, I think that there is a religious view of spirit and spirituality.
I personally, I should say, after having been, I guess, religious for some part of my life, have removed the religiosity part from spirituality.
Like, I've separated the two, I guess, is what I'm trying to say.
And at this point, I would consider myself a spiritual person, though not a religious person.
But then it made me kind of question, well, what do I mean when I say that, right?
And I guess by that is me accepting that there is a connection beyond the physical that can be experienced amongst a large group of people or entities.
And that connects us at a much deeper level.
And so I think a lot of this could be, if you wanted to, and again, I'm thinking this through as I'm speaking, so I could be completely wrong.
Probably am.
But at least trying to make sense of it in my own mind could be drawn parallels as love being an emotion, but also a spiritual experience.
And it's something that you can't necessarily physically look at, but it's certainly something that you can experience.
And it's something that can connect to people.
Though love isn't necessarily just a duality, to borrow some of the terms that you've used previously, Donnie.
But it's something that can connect, you know, hundreds, thousands, or millions of people, too, in terms of, like, what love could mean as an emotion, but also as a spiritual thread, if you will.
Yeah, I don't mean to say that, like, love doesn't matter, or it's not important, or any of that stuff, or that we don't experience it as something that is, like, profound.
Because I think we do.
I just mean to say that when we attribute these blanket terms to explain the unexplainable, I think maybe we just don't have the vocabulary yet to explain these things.
And I think, I talk about this specifically with my wife a lot, when she comes home from work, and she's, like, upset about something that maybe she had some part in creating.
You know, like, because I do this, everybody does this.
Everybody gets caught up in some moment, like, the self-preservation gets the best of us.
And then we make a decision that's kind of counter what we really want to be doing.
And I always talk about, like, how I try to bring up, rather, that her experience of this is real and true, and it's not to be invalidated.
But there is another perspective to check out, and that's, like, the reality of the situation, that, like, there are pieces of this that could have been handled differently, despite how she feels about it.
And so I would like to take that route here, or at least plead my case, that I'm not arguing that these things are not important, or that we don't experience them as something ethereal that's, like, unnameably powerful.
Just that if AI were to be programmed to respond in a way that was emotional, I bet it could, because it's ultimately, whether right or wrong or effective or not, it's about preservation and replication somehow, you know.
Again, not trying to downplay it.
I think it's really cool.
Yeah.
It's amazing stuff, and I feel it.
No, I didn't take it like that, man.
I was, again, trying to respond to something you said in context to, of course, the conversation that we're having, in terms of, like, how, I guess, in the most recent kind of thing that I said, contextualizing it from my personal experience and my understanding of emotion and spirituality and how these things kind of live in almost,
intangible kind of space, intangible kind of space, but absolutely, I mean, I think that there could be ways, and I think I said that at the very beginning, where smart persons can come up with a way of, like, creating some sort of, like, algorithm that replicates it, but doesn't necessarily, or imitates it, but doesn't necessarily replicate it, if that makes sense.
Right.
But the experience of it maybe is not replicated quite the same, just the way that it looks from the outside could be the same, you know, the response mechanisms.
Right.
Absolutely.
This has been rad.
We've been, we've been at this for maybe not all 46 minutes, because I think about 15 minutes of it, we've been trying to figure out our technology.
Still feels like it's been five minutes.
Oh, goodness.
Yeah.
This has been a fun one.
I, I'm sorry, go ahead.
It's not that hard, you know, like, creating those personalized experiences with AI.
This is what I realized, like, you just need to have the correct exposure and the experience to be able to relate towards what exactly do you need and want from that technology.
And then once you have a clear understanding, you can create extremely versatile experiences, personalized artificial intelligence experiences, which can enhance your overall productivity.
It's not that hard, even like getting Donnie's algorithm, like, you know, if we can get like Donnie's 50 songs, and if I can like give the correct instructions to AI to like break all of these songs down to like, you know, to the smallest part and try to find like, and then find common anomalies between those smallest parts.
And then try to relate those common anomalies with all the other parts of the song, and then try to relate that with some sort of personality traits, and then create a playlist, which has got all of that.
And then also like check the beats per minute, like, you know, what, what's the ratio of which songs having which beats per minute, and then like, you know, create a list of all of that, and then, and then divide them into like four different moods.
You know, you know, and then before you know it, you know, and then and then play the songs, and then give it the final instruction that play the songs which are which, which, which, which are not part of those 50 songs.
And then suddenly, before you know it, you're like listening to music, you know, which you never would have encountered in your life.
But it's guaranteed to like hit all your neurons, and it's gonna, it's guaranteed to like, you know, make you feel like, you know, the, the experience you're like trying to, to have.
That's pretty unique, Humpty, you know, that's something which was not capable.
We were not as a race capable of doing like, three, four years ago.
And I think like, great things can come from this, like, you know, the new generation, like my kids, for example, given this technology, and then let them brainstorm over it.
I think the new apps of this era, like, you know, the way we use Twitter, and like X, and all of these different apps on our phones.
I think the next era of these are going to be personalized artificial intelligence experiences.
And it's making more and more sense now, why, why it's going to happen.
And that's why I think like, last week, there was a, something which got launched, I'm not sure what it's called, I forgot the name of it.
But it's just like a little speaker, which you've got on your t-shirt.
And it's creating ad hoc internal personalized AI experiences.
And then from those personalized AI experiences, you're moving the, your show forward, basically.
And it's taking the whole phone interaction thing to, to a completely different level.
So, so it's really interesting to talk about these ideas here.
Because like, I don't think there's many platforms which will be brainstorming about like, these concepts.
And we usually tend to be like six, seven months in advance, when we talk about them, these concepts on our spaces, it'll be nice to see how it develops.
Yeah, you know, I think two things.
One, I agree, I think the future of apps is highly customizable, personalized experiences.
I think that that's something that we've been trying to get closer to for some time.
We haven't necessarily done that very well yet.
But I think we are, we're getting there.
I think with the introduction of accessible tools like these GPT apps, and this won't be the last one, I promise you.
But I think we're going to see a lot more opportunity in this space.
The one thing, though, in terms of the example you gave in music, I think we ignore that emotion, the emotion that we're feeling for that music that we listen to is actually something that we're applying to the experience.
Because the music itself isn't giving us happiness, we're applying happiness based on how we're choosing to understand that music.
Because I'll tell you that right now, I can hear the same song three or four different times.
And if I'm in a different mental state, it'll make me feel differently each time.
To that point, when you talk about taking Donnie's playlist, just because we keep talking about that, when AI tries to replicate an emotion, the only thing it has to go by is a data point from our end on how we felt about that music.
Unless that playlist is called happy, and the assumption is that everything in that playlist is meant to make us feel happy, that isn't going to necessarily reproduce or create a new playlist that makes me happy.
The data point that would be useful, and again, I say this from someone who's studying machine learning, is if there were to be like a like button, but that applies every single emotional state and adds context to what we were feeling or thinking or experiencing at the time when we heard it,
so that the AI can then say, okay, based on this information, I can now create a playlist when you tell me, make me happy.
Hopefully that makes sense.
Yeah, I think we end up with like, oh, how do we put this?
We end up with things that we want to be binary and categorize, but everything is in grayscale or rainbow to us.
So, like, I think maybe one of the main challenges we'll face is when we tell the AI to make me happy or put me in a happy place,
it can't possibly know the context because we can't possibly convey it.
I mean, yet anyway.
So, like, I think there's going to be a major disconnect between, maybe the big disconnect at this point,
is conveying what actually we are looking for when we speak with AI, not its limited capabilities,
but our limited methods of conveying those things.
Yeah.
I mean, we may be the weak link in this whole experience is that we don't necessarily have
the tools to communicate how we are feeling beyond something as arbitrary as our mouths
that can show when we are happy or our faces, right?
It's composed of all of these little muscles that show when we're happy, sad, angry, afraid, etc.
There's no other kind of way to, like, export, to use computer terminology, our emotional state.
But, hey, who knows?
Maybe that's what Neuralink is trying to do, is there'll be some sort of, like, binary code
that is going to be exported that says this is what a happy state looks like in real data for Humpty,
for Donnie, for Polaris, who looks like we lost.
Par for the course.
Maybe you accepted the co-host invite.
Anyways, I mean, any final thoughts on that or anything else, Donnie, you wanted to talk about?
I guess if you wanted to hear a brief overview of the auction thing, then I'm happy to do that.
If we save that for next time, that's totally fine.
No biggie either way.
I have nothing else on AI, though.
I think we've explored that.
Yeah, we definitely talked about everything that we can about AI, that's for sure.
That's a joke, obviously, for anybody listening and going, like, these guys, who do they think they are that they covered everything about AI?
It's a joke, everyone.
That's it.
There's nothing else to say.
Yeah, come to us with any other big, you know, world-changing problems.
We'll fix it in an hour.
That's what we do here.
All right.
Anyways, all right.
With five minutes to go, I think this is good.
It's a good cutting-off point.
Donnie, definitely, let's talk about how we can introduce the auction.
I don't just want to give you, like, five minutes.
I don't think it's fair.
I think we can definitely have a full conversation on that.
And seeing as how you're going to be heading to Art Basel pretty soon, and this is kind of the whole thing you're ramping up to into the new year,
I think we definitely want to give you the space to talk about it and explore that,
because I don't think that I necessarily have seen anything like what you've been building.
So I think it's a wonderful experiment, experience to talk about as well.
Cool.
Yeah, I'm happy to do a 30-second intro right now, and then we can catch up on it, because the auction's going to end tomorrow.
Oh, true.
And there won't be another thing.
Yeah, go for it.
It's a 24-hour auction, but there's going to be some sort of auction or raffle or sale or whatever every other week for two years.
So it's a really long concept.
But, yeah, if we have 30 seconds, is that cool?
Give a boiler.
Yeah, go for it, Matt.
Cool.
And I'm not pitching it, because I don't know if anybody in here is a Bitcoin or Ordinals person,
so it's not necessarily – it's conceptually interesting, I think.
Yeah, we can say this space has been brought to you by Bitcoin.
Go for it.
Yeah, great.
Cool.
Here we go.
Hasn't everything – well, maybe we'll say that in the future.
So in the context where I bumped my head on the ground and I can't remember anything other than right now,
I can't think of individual items.
So when I draw something – and the current auction is for a piece that's called the flag.
It's a flag.
And the flag just says, we from here.
And it's black and white, and it's line drawing, and there's no individual characteristics about it.
It's kind of like as base layer as you can go while still being recognizably a flag.
So when I look at – rather, when I think of the word flag, this is what comes out of my head,
is this bare-bones, amorphous, detail-free thing.
When anyone else hears the word flag, they think of a flag or a time where a flag was used
or some sort of, like, memory context-dependent item.
And that's inextricable from their experience of the word flag.
So I wanted to experience – or rather, promote people re-inscribing more data onto these things
because you can do that with Bitcoin ordinals, where I start with this base layer image
and then everybody else adds on what they think of when they think of flag
because they can't think of something that's nothing.
They have to mandatorily add their experience in because that's all they can draw from
where I don't have that ability.
So I have 59 of these things left, and I gave the first thorough 11 or 12 out to artists,
and they've been passing them on and re-inscribing them.
The first one was a rat, and it's gained a ton of traction.
And I figure auctioning or raffling or something, one of these every other week
through the bull run or past euphoria, is a good idea with the mandate that 90% of those funds
go to ordinals or Bitcoin development funds right out the gate.
So all of them will be going to 501c3s of some sort,
adding to base layer development on Bitcoin or ordinals protocol,
since it's a Bitcoin or ordinals thing specifically.
So I'm just trying to see if anyone cares about that or if it picks up traction
or if we can reroute $1,000 or $100,000 or $1,000,000 worth of liquidity from the ordinals market
or the Bitcoin market in general into something that can foundationally bolster
everything that we're finding valuable as we traverse this burgeoning landscape.
So we'll see if anybody buys it.
I mean, it could sell for $10.
It could sell for $10,000.
And then we'll see how this picks up steam over the course of regular auctioning.
You know?
Yeah, 100%.
So if anybody wants to check it out, go to Donnie's X account.
It's Donnie OK.
And obviously, it was a joke.
This space is not brought to you by Bitcoin.
But we can say that if you're interested in learning about the growing Bitcoin ecosystem,
this is ontology related.
Go and check out Goshen.
Goshen recently made an announcement about its Bitcoin EVM
and some of the developments that are happening there.
So I've actually challenged the team.
This is just what I do.
I see a problem and I try to find a solution.
One of the things that I challenged the team to do is as they are developing this Bitcoin EVM with Goshen,
let's make it easy for people to launch a contract on Bitcoin.
And so on that Explorer, hopefully, maybe, we'll see soon a smart contract deployer directly on there
so that you can launch your first smart contract on Bitcoin EVM, I should say, using Goshen.
So I think that's really cool.
I really love the idea of making technology accessible to people and making it super simple.
And if there was a way to just deploy a smart contract through this platform,
I think that could bring a lot of value to the Bitcoin ecosystem too
because we're accelerating development on a very valuable piece of the ecosystem.
So I have nothing else to add.
Thank you so much to all of my co-hosts here.
Donnie, Polaris.
Sorry to everybody who was on the audience who we kept getting rugged.
Next time, we just won't take the co-host role here anymore because apparently that's not working.
But yeah, thank you, everyone.
We'll see you again next week, same day.
Oh, no, probably not same day because next week it's Thanksgiving.
So let's figure out what we're going to do so that we can still hold the space,
but not on the same day because at least here in the U.S.,
we're going to be stuffing our faces full of turkey.
Okay?
We'll talk to everybody soon.
And yeah, much love and have a great weekend.
Adios, amigos.
