I see we have K1, hi K1. Hi, thanks for having me. Thank you for joining. And let me see on the requests.
Everyone, Maryam from Engel here. We should also have Pablo maybe he requested us to be a speaker Hi, I guess I think he's probably Yeah, I think Pablo's joining. Hi Pablo. Hey, welcome. Hey, how are you doing? I'm behind the hangar account today. How are you doing pleasure to be here?
Doing well, thank you, welcome, welcome, and welcome everyone who's turning in from, I'm sure all different parts of the world will probably get started and I'm sure others will tune in as well. So welcome everyone to this segment.
of innovation talks on the de-dollarization of stablecoins. For those of you who might be new to the VNB Chain Ecosystem, we are a layer one that launched back in 2020, really with the mission of improving access to Web3 technologies.
and are working with leading DeFi protocols like angle protocol who will share a lot more today and what about exchange who some of you might already be familiar with from some of our previous innovation talks. And so really the backdrop for today's conversation really
is a kind of an inflection point where we are on the Web 3 ecosystem, but also perhaps an global economy. There's a lot of headlines around the de-dollarization that we're seeing at a global macro level. And we're also seeing this in terms of within the DeFi sector, in terms of stable
So with us today to talk about the future of stablecoins and the move away from just dollar stablecoins is one bad exchange and angle protocol. So very, very grateful for the panel to be joining us today. So probably nice if we start with a few
So Pablo, would you like to start and give a quick intro to yourself? Yes, sure. So I'm a co-founder of the Engel Protocol. We've started working on the protocol more than two years ago now, late 2020 or early 2021. I was a
before that a student at Stanford University in the US played around with DeFi since the early days. And you know, got to work in the space because I realized how interesting it could be, but I also realized the fact that we were lacking a lot of financial primitives for it to be actually used
And so this is what led us into this mission and project to create non-USD stablecoins for everyone to enjoy the fight without having to care about the exchange risk between the USD and the euro, notably, but mostly to give everyone the financial tools to grow the fight
and to use DeFi as it should be used as a composable financial ecosystem. So yeah, I'm a co-founder and a lot of the technical aspect related to Angular. So there are any technical questions related to stable const today and be able to answer them. That's awesome. Thank you. And maybe we go to Maryam next.
Yeah, I'm Meriam with an angle protocol in charge of business development and marketing. I've joined the team last year and for me really joining a project that's versed in building
stablecoin protocol and starting specifically with Euro's stablecoin for me. It's an incredible and amazing challenge at the same time because if you look at the currencies within the world today, the Euro is obviously the second most important currency, both
in terms of trading but also even for lending and you know addressing this market is both an amazing financial opportunity but also a matter of inclusion and we'll be able to discuss that later on but yes definitely joined for that incredible challenge but also because the team is
composed of incredible software engineers that are very much focused on the security and technical side of things. So it was for me very good move then to join the team. Thank you, Mary. I'm welcome. Welcome. And over to K1.
Hi, thank you for having me. K1 here ahead of BDF LongBat Exchange. Some of you might already know LongBat. It's a stable client swap that's had a pretty okay track record on BNB chain. Now we're going multi-chain, brain more different users on BNB chain.
back to the BNB ecosystem. I think personal and to wise before crypto I was doing I was a lawyer, a corporate lawyer in Hong Kong. So fairly familiar with the regulation space, especially now we're in a very going into a very highly regulated potential.
environmental environment in the D5 space in general. And then entered D5 around 2018-17-H. I actually was involved in the very first D5 project on Binance Marked Chain back then. And then after that I was with PIF Oracle and the Serana ecosystem and then now
Thank you, K. Thank you, Kim, and welcome, welcome. I'm sure on the right we choose that people might have questions kind of your own personal views on what's happening and what impact that might have. But maybe to keep things off, angle-prosical.
We'd love for you to give kind of the story behind it. I think people are off-mino with what it is, but the story of how you built this decentralized stablecoin, how you built a competitive advantage, what kind of opportunity you saw and where it is today.
Yeah, so you know the idea for a girl raised when they were high yields in DeFi in late 2020 in the Stembell Corn Market, you know you could learn on
compound earn sometimes up to 10% on your USDC. But at the same time, the dollar was decreasing with respect to the euro.
Oh, today, lose. Sorry, I lost your first second apologies. Yeah, okay. No, no. Like all the yelled you were making in dollar was it an up by the decrease of the dollar with respect to the euro and at the same time there was no strong euro opportunity on chain. So
The first move we made and the market of ATIN was create your stablecoins for people to get a yield without having to care about the eccentric. The second move, we chose a super targeted go-to-market strategy because we also thought that decentralized stablecoins, the way they were done, like by maker, were
not so efficient and we tried and we did improve the way over which decentralized stable cons are made. We never did into the algorithmic designs. We've always pushed for over-characterized stable-contestants and so what gave us a
competitive advantage from scratch in the euro market, which was still a nascent market. But there was some players which arrived by the time between the time at which we decided to go on this and the time at which we launched a product, is that we improved the stable country, the amount managed to make a system that is capital
efficient while remaining over catalyzed. And this was kind of our edge and this enabled us to become rapidly with a zero the biggest euros table coin in the market when we launched. And right now a g a row is the most traded euros table coin. We've been kind of aggressive in our question strategy as well. And this has been one of the competitive advantage with we've had
as well, beyond the stablecoin design. AGO is super easy to tradeable on many different sheds, on BNB-chain, of course, but it doesn't exist on Ethereum, I'm a polygone optimizer, more region like most of the sheds you can think of, it exists here. And so yeah, I'd say that the reason
for age-euros competitive advantage, it's unique and safe and robust and decentralized and over-crowed, otherwise modally-changed wheels, it launch wheels. The fact that it is a Euro-Stable coin, which is a market in which there are not that many players. And so much that now, whenever you are trading a Euro-Stable coin,
Six times out of ten you're doing it you are trading a zero because a zero is making 60% of the volume of all your stable countries Maybe Mariam has some things to add on top of that, but these are for me the key reasons why a G euro made its name in the in the your stable
Absolutely. Yeah nothing to hide actually. Yeah it's pretty cool. Prads. Thank you, Bob. And then maybe just actually for for the audience you you spoke about how it is is obviously overclassurized but also capsule efficient like what does that look like in practice with you know what is capsule efficiency of the stable
coin of yours that would look like in practice for the users here for the community who may be less familiar with us. So this is a system we changed a bit and it is a currently changing. It's meant that you could mint one A-GRO with one euro worth of US$1.
It's something that is no longer possible for several reasons, but it is still going to be possible to mint one-eight-year-old for one-year-old worth of collateral. So most likely, euro-stable coins and Engel will have the most
But it's also capital efficient in the if you compare with other CDP systems like collateralized that position systems. Engel has what we call a boring module which enables people to take edge your loans against collateral assets. And the system is designed in a way that we can
that enables to set very low collateral factors, which means that likely with equity you can put if, borrow, LUSD at 110% collateral factor, the same is enabled with Angular. You can be pretty aggressive like put a small amount of collateral
And still borrow a lot of stable coins because the system supports like capital efficient equidation which enable is to do it in a safe way Like protecting borrowers but while leaving them a lot of Expressivity in terms of what they can do with the proper
Yeah, I might add chime in to add something here. At the end of the day, the philosophy behind what the team has built is to enable everyone who needs age-euro to be able to mint it or borrow
it in the most in the cheapest way possible as of today actually borrowing a zero on chain is one of the cheapest places to borrow on chain right now in the defy ecosystem you can borrow a zero at 0.5
5% fixed rate, which is the cheapest place. If you compare, for example, with borrowing, die, make a die from make a die or something like that, this is the cheapest place, but also make it safe. So basically what he was saying about the capital efficiency is allowing you
to make the most out of your money. And I think this is why we're all in DeFi and what we're trying to achieve here. Super clear. Kero, I mean, you're in the business obviously of Sepulchons in general and work with many teams and
You know, I've been able to you know analyze quite a few propositions out there like what are your thoughts on on what has made a G Europe particularly unique or what do you would you even look for at one but when working with stable components?
I think it's very unique in the sense that it's a very valid ad proposition to a BNB ecosystem because it's not anything related or to do with USD. I think everyone that's paying attention in space or even
traditional finance in general, US is being a crazy cramping down and regulating trying to or almost I would say banning like the fight in general in the space and any sort of USD related stablecoin
right. Anyvatively, it doesn't matter what you do. It's like USDC they're trying to stay away from long-term US Treasury bonds, send ad and then them. But then it's an in invavable if you're related to a USD in any way that when once you do the on-ramp off-ramp or
your collider acid will have to be exposed to some sort of U.S. related on. And the regulatory space and that aspect, it's very unclear at the moment. I mean, you can only try to do the risk so much. Maybe move your headquarter out this and that, but then there's still a lot
of tide to US-related issues. So I think the age of year-old is a very good proposition to be entering the BNB space right now. It's a very good alternative choice for many of the stablecoin holders out there. Obviously, stablecoin is very important for the five space.
It's a way for us to exit our position or just hold crypto in general, expecting a more stable last volatile risk profile in general. So I think that's why we reached out to a year recently to wanting to start a conversation with them again. I think
It's important for any stablecoin swap like Bombat to have some sort of non-USD or more specifically Euro-based stablecoin instead of USD related. It just toughs that off of that maybe more from Mariam but like
What maybe it seems obvious to ask you have been thinking about the importance of having euros, double coinbley. Anything you want to add in terms of the specific needs for non-dollar double coins in the first
and why it is, you know, what the advantages are, what the innovation is in kind of the de-dollarization of the stablecoin layer on being returned and also across the industry at large.
Absolutely, this is an excellent question and I think the necessity of having euro stablecoins and then obviously at large non-USD based tablecoins touches different needs but I think there are three important needs there. The first is accessibility
of DFI because if you look at people and I think BNB chain is a magnificent illustration of this accessibility and diversity because why as of today BNB chain is the chain that has the most unique address is the most users in terms of transactions and accessibility.
because the transaction fees are lower and then there's much more openness in allowing people to access DeFi. And we are in the same type of system trying to allow people to enter DeFi. If you have your fear, initially fear,
money in currency that is not USD in our case, Euro. And the Euro as Pablo was saying is consistently higher than the dollar. And in DeFi, you only have dollar-denominated opportunities. What does it mean? It means you need to take your Fiat money that is not in dollar. Change it
to some USDPEG stablecoins. Changing it you will pay some fees to enter to buy your stablecoin then you will take a change risk because you have to change from your currency to the dollar. Then you go and farm or get some use opportunities, denominate it in dollar, you will get whatever you get
depending on the strategy you're doing and then you want maybe to off ramp and go back to your currency you will go the other way. Take that change risk again and then maybe pay some fees to off ramp. So in the process you're losing kind of you know you're losing some value there and you're also taking a change
change risk that is not necessary. So for us really it's a matter of accessibility allowing everyone, people who are using DeFi on BNB in the ecosystem at large, to be able to access without losing this value in translation. That's the first thing accessibility, the second one.
For us, it's more of open finance and building bridges between DeFi and the rest of the world, the rest of finance. Because if you multiply these currencies and open DeFi to other currencies other than the dollar, you are creating
bridges in order to bring in different type of institutions, different type of corporate, different types of people who are dealing with these other currencies and cannot afford to take that change risk consistently. This is the second thing and most importantly it's about making defies stronger and
more interesting for everyone. If we only stick to the dollar and we've been talking about it, the fact that there is more and more regulatory pressure specifically from the US, you want to diversify the vehicle system over as many
options as possible out there in order to make the ecosystem resilient and stronger because you never know where the attacks will come from and we've seen that they've been multiplying the past years. Thank you. That's super comprehensive and I can agree more right just on the on the plurality of the diversity of options that should be that should be
available to users and that meet people in terms of where the native kind of currencies or stable coins that they are stable forms of value that they're used to. So that's really comprehensive. And I think a question always comes up for
any new, well it's not new but maybe new arrival and be in D-chain for any stable corners is how you maintain that stable mechanism. I think people here would be curious to know how that works and how you're able to maintain that peg.
So in fact when you're a stablecoin, bridges are super helpful in maintaining a peg for a stablecoin. It works for AG, robots, it works for any other stablecoin. It's USDC, it works the same. AGRO exists on GND.
be chained, it is liquid, we have some liquidity pool some punk, swap on the BNB chain. But there is no like stability mechanism so far built in on gay beach chain, which allows to swap and which like there's no primary market which enables you to swap one age zero for one euro worth of whatever you want
at all times in all market conditions. But you have bridges to Ethereum where this is possible. And so whenever like age euro trades at more than one euro on BNB chain because someone bought a lot of age euro, then you have arbitrageers which are incentivized to
So the bridge infrastructure here, while it may seem
It may seem like a secondary problem is really key and crucial in maintaining the stability of the stablecoin on the NB chain. And so, like, on a finger, we rely on layer zero. And we have some custom implementation to make sure that if layer zero
or if any bridge we use in the future was to be hacked, our exposure would be really limited with respect to what we would face if we didn't have these like safeguards in place. So bridges and like price stability modules but native on Ethereum are what enable H0 to keep its
super clear. Before I ask the last few questions, my side, we will have a moment or two just to take some questions from the audience. So if any of you have particular questions or feedback you want to share, please
Now's a good time to think about it. Questions should end with a question mark and shouldn't be an opportunity to show your project and generally be a question for the panel. So we'll give you all the chance to ask anything that may be on your mind.
One question I do have a message is, there's a lot of innovation, there's a lot of activity taking place in DeFi despite perhaps some of the crypto winter that we saw a few months ago. Well, two questions.
one for your own project. What are the future developments that we should keep an eye on? We'll look out for. Also, more gently, what are the trends that you're most excited about in the space? Maybe we start with K1 on this one.
I'm sure for a warm-up, obviously we'll continue doing what we're good at.
Now we're just a efficient stablecoin swap. I think a lot of the B&B ecosystem players they know that we are very low guess and we are single-sided or designed. It's innovative in the sense that we don't have quote unquote permanent lost.
We're a capital efficient algorithm. It's consistently picked up a lot of aggregators. So we will continue doing what we're good at obviously to remain competitive and contribute to the stable coin space in general. Another thing I think going forward important for stable coin or a DeFi space is for any new projects joining the
I think it really boils down to liquidity because a lot of the new players are not able to compete with the more established player because lack of liquidity. Obviously, the most important has to be one of the most important aspect of succeeding in this space in general.
general. More liquidity means more usage, more people out of project trust you more, being able to build upon your stablecoin more. I think this is where one that will continue to improve upon our already pretty capital efficient algorithm as well to help the new common
in the sense that with maybe not as competitive or not as high TVL, we try to make it so that the transaction volume is able to do at least like five, six or more Xs in terms of making the stable coin more liquid. In terms of future role map, we are
pulling across the query pools where the query providers can deposit cross-chain asset in one single pool, hoping again to work towards more capital efficiency as well. So that's what we have in our roadmap. Thanks. And so now go ahead, Puppet.
No, sorry, I'm on the angle side, you know, we believe that what we've built so far in the stablecoin space is cool, but that it could be cooler than that. And we believe that so far stablecoins, like especially agiore is mostly used for people to take direction and baits on, is the dollar going to be stronger than the euro or
should I buy euros or should I hold dollars on chain. But we want to build products that actually make defy a thing. Right now like defies in some way like and at the exception of some protocols a closed circle where some you know people are
are like taking leverage, swapping, and so on, using truly crypto assets. And our goal is to broaden the spectrum of what can be done in DeFi. And we are very much focused on everything that is going on with real world assets, with tokenization projects, and very spending
a lot of time trying to incorporate them in the protocol. So right now it is possible to borrow a GRO with BI-B01, which is the tokenized version of US Treasury builds. So you can get the dollar risk for yellow on and gold and borrow a GRO against that. And we are working to release like savings contract, Euro savings contract.
To make sure that all age-year holders can earn the market's risk-rehealing on their euros, thanks to the real-world asset infrastructure we're building. And with this, our goal is to even go further. Our goal is to provide utility through age-year and through the protocol to people in the world
And to bring them a utility, they wouldn't be able to get through TrapFight. Like right now, if you want to borrow from US Treasury bills, the maximum collateral factor you can get is 50%. On an angle, you can get an 80% collateral factor. So we've just done a proof of concept that we want to go far, far beyond that. And then, of course, an obvious
So, the same thing is done in the same way. So, the same thing is done in the same way. So, the same thing is done in the same way. So, the same thing is done in the same way. So, the same thing is done in the same way. So, the same thing is done in the same way. So, the same thing is done in the same way. So, the same thing is done in the same way.#
integration efforts are really key in our short-term roadmap and we are going to spend a lot of time making sure that like educating the BNB ecosystem, but just like we're doing right now on non-USD stablecoin, on what angle is, on how robust it is, and on why people should use it. So this is super
involved in for us discussion presents and especially on gamey chain. Thank you. Mariam, I know obviously I was just kind of more the angle protocol side. But maybe from your perspective, you know, I think perhaps even beyond the angle, like what are you, what are you most excited about in terms of some of the trends that you're seeing, stable coin or otherwise for the DeFi sector? That gives you
I hope that an excitement that more greater adoption is coming. I think beyond angle, but it's something that we're looking at, as Pablo said. Right now we are seeing two very hot narratives, one that's
related to liquid-staking tokens and even creating stablecoins that are backed by such liquid-staking tokens. You know, stablecoins backed by RADS, TAKES or others, and on the other side, of course, the tokenization that Pablo was talking about. And I think
In terms of stablecoins, as you were saying, this is a standard. And that allows you to create bridges, to create trust in order to exchange between different products that can be composed together. And in terms of tokenization, of course, you're building a bridge between on-chain assets and off-chain assets. I'm saying off-chain assets.
and even though some other people would just say real world assets. So for me these are the two trends that can definitely change the face of DeFi in the coming months and years, especially the real world asset narratives and this is something that is promising.
and to which angle is deeply connected. So I think we're very well positioned in order to address this type of market. Thank you. Yeah, no, we're keeping a strong pulse on that as defy as well as definitely one of the main narratives. Paulo, Keiwam, just lastly,
What would be the next big unlock for adoption? I mean, stablecoins are a very crucial role as economic primitive. But what else do you think is needed to help unlock that next wave of adoption and DeFi?
I think there are, sorry, K1, you want to go ahead maybe? No, no, no, go ahead. Okay, thanks. No, I mean, I said that two main things are needed. The first one is security. It's not going to be an unlock as your one. It's more going to be something that goes
around time. There are still a lot of hacks in defy and the perceived risk from external actors to interact with defy projects is still big. And rightfully, if you look in the total hack time in 2022, I think it was 3.8 billion. And the risk
return is not negative. Like if you were like impacted by the hacks. So, reassuring people on the security of the financial solutions and financial applications we're building is really key. That's one thing. And then for the stablecoin,
system in itself, how can we really grow the adoption? I think we need to make sure that there is no opportunity cost for holding a stablecoin. You know, holding a stablecoin should give you the same opportunities as what you get when you own cash or money at the bank. You know, you should be able to make a risk free of yield on this by
And we should make sure that in defy when people own a stable coin they don't have to choose oh do I want to get the risky defy rates or do I want to get the C-fiber rates? You should be getting the minimum by default between both when you're on the stable coin and then you know if you want to compose and get extra IPR and earn a
trade-earn, you should be able to do so because this is what Dify is about. But so I insist on risk and I insist on the opportunity cost, I mean on security and on the opportunity cost between trade-earn and Dify, which shouldn't be the thing for people to actually and massively use stable growth.
For me, I agree with what Enkko mentioned. Maybe we need to have more quote-unquote "we will ask" at Poon on Chain. Just some news article, I think I was reading this morning, some olive oil producer, they're issuing a euro-battle
or a Euro-Stable point, backed bonds and putting them on chain. I think that's a pretty good initiative and that's a good way to start. I think more commodities or agriculture company that my funding can, instead of doing the traditional way, especially in emerging market.
They can consider doing it on-chain, might be more cost-effective and reach wider audience internationally than just doing it in their own country, especially for emerging market. I think that's also a good angle that I'm echo the Euro stablecoin campaign.
can get yourself into us while maybe working more closely with these we were asset issued bond or really the bond issuers to make more use cases and adoption for for these euro backed bond. Thank you.
I think you're both of you that are now ahead in terms of this point around opportunity costs or closing the gap in the yields and the sophistication of financial services and the tradfire world and the defy world. Whether it's what the adoption of the euro here or onboarding these off-chain assets or kind
making the risk free rates, one that's essentially defacto-available on chain, I think is key to that adoption. So very insightful and makes a lot of sense to me. So with that, I want to open the floor for anyone who has any questions.
If you do have any questions, you can just wave or raise your hands. And we will, or you can request as well. And we can take it from there. So give people just the moment if you have any questions for the panel. For free to
to ping us. I'm also checking the comments as well. I think I see one front your 10-5, 10-finance is listening in. I'll
sure they have any questions.
Okay, let you in for a moment, sorry, give me a sec. And for free too, I'll ask you a question.
I'll see you on the last few questions.
Oh, yes, can you hear me? Yes, we can. Okay. Okay. Yes. I was just wondering, I've been following the blockchain for a while and I'm highly invested as well. Not too familiar with DeFi, but I've been following the trends what's going on with the as far as the stablecoin
and I know that there's another project that's similar to what you guys touch on as far as like the Tracer Coins. I think it's called Cajito and I was just wondering like are you guys like going to be partnering with them or is it like the same concept
that they are producing to the market or the scenario was going on. Thanks for your question. I'm less than one from the panel, I'll take that. Maybe I presume that was more for Angle on the comparisons to the protocol that was mentioned.
Um, maybe Pablo will do, does not agree, but I am unsure about, I'm not sure I've heard about the Kujito project, more generally about other protocols that are, you know, developing other U.S. tablecoin. I will view on that.
is that comparatively to the USD-PEC stablecoin market, the euro stablecoin market is still relatively modest. There's still a lot of room to grow and a lot of innovations to be done there. Even if
is the most traded euro stablecoin at the moment and the biggest one. We really are focused on cooperating with other stablecoins. Euro stablecoins are other. We know we consistently help and collaborate with other stablecoins. So if there's an opportunity there to work with that pro
projects and it's something that makes sense for our community and defiant large. We sure are eventually going to do that. But we're not in touch with that team at the moment, but always hope open to help and work with other stablecoins. Something we consistently do. Yeah. Thank you, Mario.
Thank you. Any other questions or feedback from the crowd?
If not, we will close on this occasion. But before we do that, any final thoughts or key updates to share with the community is maybe especially from the angle protocol side given the
kind of recent push on the MB train any updates you want to share with the community here for a week's class? Yeah, we've just published this week a web paper for a new stable-con system that we should implement within the Angular protocol. So if you are interested in the
stable conditions if you're interested in making safe, resilient and autonomous decentralized systems that invite you to take a look. It's researched on math in it. It's not like the most shiny stuff you can think of. But I guess that the ideas we are bringing here, well people should still talk about them, we will still be
talking about them in a couple of years. So I invite you to take a look if you want to be early in the revolution we're bringing. Fantastic. I realize there's actually just one question, we just maybe question for one more I think from Barren's also. I'll give you guys all just a quick moment to ask one question and we'll move on close.
I've just invited you, so give you a sec.
I see it's connecting, but if it doesn't work, then we can...
Yeah, it doesn't seem like it's working. Okay, on site.
Okay, that in that marry am any final thought you want to share on your side?
More generally, we talked about security, about the fact that Engel wants to be a resilient protocol. Do not hesitate if you have any question to reach out to us on our Discord to check out the Engel documentation, go on the app, get familiar
with it and the team is always here you know to answer questions because we know that for people who are already in DFI or people who are just arriving there might be some things there that needs you know a little bit of education and that's why we're here as well because at the end of the day we're still early in this space and
It's all about also community and education so please don't be shy and reach out if you need to Love that And K1 any final thoughts from the one bad side? I just want to thank and call for asking a one bad to join this trip to space
I actually haven't personally spoken to a team before this tourist base. I know some on a member of Wamba team had, but after does a very short tourist base, I definitely think they're bringing a lot of value to the stable-quaint space in general. It seems like a team is trying to come up with a very innovative
different collados or use cases for more diversified, stagicant space. So long thing, and cool again. And from one by side, we have tons of launches. I think most of our team are working more than 12 hours a day now to Russia.
Crossing pool that we're doing at the third audit on and then also we're gonna be having a V2 of so do pay close attention to our Twitter want that Exchange and Yeah, thank you for having this you thank you, okay, well, I'm new right I struggled to keep up with everything that one bad is doing
And I want to thank all of you for joining for today's session on the future stablecoins and the de-dollarization of stablecoins. And of course, a very special thank you to K1, Pablo and Mariam for sharing that
insights on today's session of innovation talk. So thank you all. And for those of you, of course, you're probably all familiar with us, we do run these talks pretty frequently. So do stay tuned. Of course, follow one bad exchange and angle protocol here to stay up to date.
with their latest developments and latest product milestones. They are really innovating in the space and we're working closely with them. So stay tuned and we will see you at the next innovation talk. Thank you, everyone. Thanks, Pablo. - Thanks, guys. - Thank you guys for the pleasure. - Thank you, bye-bye. - Thank you, bye. - Bye.