GM, GM everyone. Welcome to another Germany AMA's Twitter space. Welcome to you. I hope I pronounced your name correctly. It's a very hard name, so I listened to a lot of versions.
But you can maybe just call me T. A lot of my friends call me T. The original pronunciation is Dune, but T is definitely something I listen to. Thank you for having me.
Okay, wow, that's perfect. Let's just wait a couple more minutes here for people to filter into the room before we get started. Perfect. Yeah, we'll wait about two to three minutes here.
So it's been a bit of a dramatic week with all the FTX stuff that's on the go and the related follow-outs. And I think it's really turned off a lot of the people who are normally hanging out in the crypto space. So we might be a little light on listeners and participants today, but that's
quite all right. We didn't do any sort of like advance for motions or structure or give away. So we'll see how it goes today. The show is recorded so for anybody that would like to listen later on it'll be available for 30 days.
So yeah, I guess we can go ahead and get started. Welcome. I wonder if you just introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your background and before we get into talking about decentralized ID and light entry or the dentistry specifically. Yeah.
perfect. So I joined Litentree when was it? It must have been lost summer and personally I had a background in innovation management and product design so I joined them as a product manager and have been steadily
Yeah, just supporting a team as a from a product management role, but also as a business development and a growth management role. Well, what is interesting or more interesting that my profile is actually liitentries path or what liitentries doing and liitentry originally started as a decent
decentralized identity aggregator. And now more and more is focused on providing the infrastructure to unlock your verifiable personal digital data so that with that verifiable personal digital data you can unlock new social and economic opportunities.
opportunities and innovations. That's in very short what we stand for and what we're doing. Literature started in 2021 as a project on the launch platform of finance and so that was in the midst of
of the bull market, which was a great moment for us to launch a project. It was when identity wasn't as much spoken about as it is right now. We were one of the earlier projects that was talking about decentralized identities.
and identity based on blockchain technology. And ever since we have been building prototypes and improve of concepts, and we're most likely planning to launch, like in consumer phrasing or a user
facing products somewhere in the first quarters of next year. So that would be when our technology really comes into play and become, yeah, it's able to get access by users to unlock their identity and to start playing with that.
Wow, sounds exciting. So you got your start on through finance launch pad. That's kind of interesting and you're providing a kind of like multi chain aggregation of identities. So which other chains are you available on other than finance and are you thinking of supporting any other chains as you go
forward towards the product launch. Yeah, that's a very good question. So we launched on on Binance, so that was still within ERC 20 token. Currently that is being bridged to the Kusama and Polkadot networks with our parachains, litmus and litentry. So those
two parachains will be used as a trust anchor, as blockchains to which we map or to which we anchor our verifiable credentials. So all of the digital identity data that users will be generated
generating or aggregating with us in a privacy preserving way, they will be anchored to the blockchain so that they can be verified, that they can be checked, and that's where our parachains come into play. So our parachain on Kusama, Lidmus, will be used as a cannery network, and then Polkadot will
be our production network. So in terms of availability, there's two ways to look at a live entry. Live entry is a user of a blockchain as a trust anchor, as a medium to make sure that all of the identity data and
The verifiable credentials that we are issuing for our users, I also call them identity owners, that we can map that to a blockchain, that we can log that to a blockchain, that we can store verifiable proofs anchored to that blockchain. So in that way, we need blockchains or we need a blockchain to make
that happen. That could actually be any type of blockchain, but we chose it to be polka dot due to its interoperability and its vision on, yeah, kind of a multi-chain world from the start. Now, we do integrate data from other blockchains. So that's a different way to look
Okay, on one side we need a blockchain to make our infrastructure work, but then we also aggregate and use an index, a lot of data from other blockchains such as Ethereum, Polygon, Binance, Smart Chain. And then currently we're also looking into Salana, Avalanche, and Flow to be able to
allow I tend the owners to aggregate or to prove that they have ownership over certain wallet addresses on those blockchains so that we can read the data that is attached to their wallet addresses so that they can use it in a
a variable format and start using that identity data in other environments, but this time in a privacy preserving way. So just to stipulate it once more again, we use blockchain to make our infrastructure work, but we aggregate our read the data
from a lot of other blockchains because that data is actually identity data that is so valuable to our users. I hope that makes sense. Right. Yeah, so it doesn't make a lot of sense. So I'm just curious a little bit about, um, so you're doing a lot of indexing of other games, but
of course you've got blockchains that are on Pokemon Kusama. I'm just wondering how that index data interfaces with the blockchain. Do you have some sort of storage solution for your blockchain or are you using that kind of other solution?
Yeah, it's a good question. So I think to answer that question, we would have to run through how little tree works or how our protocol works a bit and then it will become more clear why it is different or how we are storing the identity data of our identity.
owners. So to start with, let's do a quick comparison between Lab 2, Identity Data and Web 3 Identity Data. There's a big difference in where that data is stored. In Facebook or in the other major tech monopolies,
that data is usually stored on centralized servers. So it's sitting in one of their server centers and they kind of use that complete profile of a Web2 user as an audience or as a product. And that product gets sold to advertisers because it's just very
clearly which type of preferences one person has which type of advertisers advertisements that would really target him well. So that's a big difference on Web 3 all of our identity data all of our history all of our transactions all of the the
changes or the changes that we make on a blockchain, they live in a decentralized server. So they are spread across multiple nodes and they live on blockchains within anonymous way. As long as you have some good wild hygiene and you don't dox yourself, then you can practically live anonymous
on a blockchain, but that's not ideal. So, currently we're logging into DAPs and we're logging into different products with the help of one wallet address or we're like showing that that wallet address belongs to us and the
depending on how big our wallet hygiene is that attaches, there's a lot of history attached to that wallet. But that is definitely not a complete picture of your digital identity. For example, my Twitter is a part of my digital identity, but my Twitter doesn't live on a blockchain or my
credit accounts is a large part of my digital identity because I have gathered a lot of karma and respect and knowledge on that platform. I might have wallet addresses on other blockchain ecosystems that I cannot log in to within a depth.
cannot use those wallet addresses that are living on other blockchains when looking in. So, living tree is allowing users to make their identity or their digital identity richer by aggregating and bringing together all of these different wallet addresses, all of these different web
to platform accounts. So in that terms, we are offering the identity owner to create an identity graph. We call it, it's kind of a collection of their accounts. It's kind of a collection of their wallet addresses. It's a collection of those sensitive relationships between wallet
addresses, web to accounts, etc. Now obviously that type of data is not something you want to be out in the open. That is the type of data that only the identity owner should have access to, that only the identity owner should be able to see.
That's where an innovation comes in that we are making use of. We're not making use of zero knowledge proofs, but we are making use of trusted execution enclave. What are trusted execution enclave? They are, they are incorruptible hardware, so to say they are pieces
of memory on a CPU that you cannot temper with. So a better metaphor to describe it is that it is a black box that can be pre-programmed, but as soon as you put something inside a black box, you can somebody else who programs the black box cannot see what another person puts into it.
So in this case, the identity owner is putting his sensitive relations in that black box inside the trusted execution enclave. Litentree has pre-programmed how that trusted execution enclave should work and how it should generate statements of truth about
about the identity owners identity, but let me treat it no longer able to see what identity owner is putting inside or what identity owner is requesting from the trusted execution enclave. So we kind of created an environment that is completely privacy preserving that is secure, but that's still
is able to store, to generate a compute, to share truth statements about someone's identity. For example, if I would like to issue a truth statement that I have more than thousands followers on Twitter, plus I hold
Ethereum or Polkadot since 2017 or 2018, then I can ask the trusted execution environment to store my wallet addresses. I can prove that I own them. They can trust the execution environment, will store them and will issue truth statements
that those both statements are valid. So in my case, I don't have more than 1,000 Twitter followers. The trust execution environment might say no, that true statement is not valid. There is no more
than 100 Twitter followers or there was at least below 1,000 Twitter followers available on this profile. So it's actually issuing a Boolean statement about the identity owner without revealing too much specifics of their information. And that's actually the innovation that we're making use of.
And when this dresses actually gives an environment is issuing all of these truth statements, we are issuing them in a standard in a format that is being widely adopted across the decentralized identity space. And that format is the verifiable
credential. I could zoom more into that if we want to, but to answer your question on how we store those sensitive relationships between the different profiles of different accounts that is with the help of the trusted execution environment, the Intel SGX
chip is there is the is the biggest example of that one. And it has some it has some benefits towards scalability and towards ease of use in comparison to zero knowledge proofs. So that's why we are choosing for that technology. Hope that makes sense again.
It's a bit technical, but I hope I did my best to explain it. No, you did a great job of explaining it actually. So, yeah, that answers some of my other questions as well about how you actually securing the private data that's aggregated across multiple chains.
know that you're using the trusted execution environment, which is basically like the same system that stores private information on our phones. So we're already used to using it, like for biometrics, etc. So the operating system just gets a basic, basically
like a aboly and natural vault statement about whether the credentials match or not. So yeah, and I suppose that's, there are some trade-offs in security and performance. There's some trust and execution environment versus through knowledge.
But yeah, I'm just curious like is this an EDM only solution or is it supporting on substrates as well? Yeah, so we're building this completely on substrates. One of our bigger partners that we're collaborating with is in tech
who is really unlocking the scalability of trusted execution environments. One of our other partners, Fala Network, networks is also using trusted execution environments a lot to, to, in their cloud storage solutions. So, I think that's a great question.
we are building on substrates and that's what I can say about that at this point. I think we mostly chose for bulk adult and the substrate ecosystem due
to its vision for the specialized blockchains that could still interact with each other, but that have their own home, that have their own palettes, are living on the substrate network, and that really can kind of specialize in their own
way to offer the functionalities that you might not be able to offer on a generalized blockchain. Also our founders were close members of the parity team originally, so that those are some of the reasons of why we are building on the Polkadot ecosystem.
Super cool. So let me see here just going back to touch on your your storage. You did mention that there are some differences between like say database storage from Web 2 to Web 3 and just want to clarify. Did you did you say that
All of this aggregated identity data is stored on your blockchain and there's no other kind of external interfaces. So what we're trying to we're not trying to store the actual data on our blockchain because we don't think a lot of identity data should be stored on a
blockchain because blockchain is our permanent, they are immutable. It's not really the right place to store a lot of data. What we are storing are the hashes of our verifiable credentials. So we are, how could you see it? You could see it as a way to verify
that the verifiable credential. And let me wait, before I start there, let me first zoom into verifiable credentials. This is an important part that the listeners might want to remember of this talk. Verifiable credentials are really a pretty cool innovation. It's from the WebTree
They are also a bit called the Giga nerds of the internet. They are the ones who write out the standards. They are the ones who are thinking 5, 10 years ahead of all innovations and creating the standards and the principles and the primitives by which the internet works and operates.
So they came up with a very file book, and a good way to look at a very file book, and it's just like it's a code file, it's a JSON file in which you are writing a couple of details so that you can transfer digital data in a way that is understandable for everybody. It's a bit like a
letter, a letter that you're sending to somebody else and in that letter it says, hey, this letter comes from this person. And for example, litentry, litentry in this letter is the issuer of the identity data. Litentry is helping the identity owner to share his identity data and identity owner
that we are talking about today is this address. So it mentions an issuer, it mentions a subject, which is usually the identity owner, and then the letter or the JSON file, it mentions what we are talking about. It mentions the actual payload, the content, the information about the subject in my
case for example, does this wallet address or does this Twitter account have between 100 and 1000 followers? And then this fairfibocudential can mention whether or not that statement is true. At the bottom of this letter, we sign the
with the private keys of the trusted execution environment and the private keys of the identity owners, so that we have cryptographic proof that those participants were actually involved in the creation of this verifiable credential. Then you can encrypt this verifiable credential.
And we don't store it on chain, we send it directly to the local storage of the identity owner. So the identity owner is asking little tree to, hey, help me issue a verifiable credential about this detail of my Twitter profile that I would like to share with somebody else. Store the hash on your blockchain.
and sent the JSON file of that letter directly to my local storage. And then, me as an identity owner, I can decide to who I want to send this verifiable credential. So this verifiable credential lives in my wallet or in my local storage. And I could then send it over to Darwinian
And when Darwinia wants to know whether or not my me as a community user, as a community member, whether or not I have a lot of followers. And I am always in control of this fairifiable credential as an identity owner. I decide to who I disclose it. I decide to who I send it over.
And it's then super easy for Darwinia to open his Fairfile potential, read the content in there. And usually that content is of a very low resolution of information. So it's not saying exactly how many Twitter followers I have. It just reads
whether I have Twitter followers above at a certain threshold. So that I do not get docs that I could maintain my anonymity if I wanted to and I could just prove that I have somewhere an account that I own with that amount of followers but I don't have to disclose which account the same for Val
value or assets on a wallet address. So at that moment, at the Winniha receives the verifiable credential, they are able to check a couple of things immediately because we are using the blockchain as a trust anchor. They are able to check who issued it. I was lit in tree.
we trust, let me try. Who is it about? It was this wallet address. Does that comply with the wallet address that is actually sending me the verifiable credential? Yes. Can we double check if the verifiable credential has not been compromised or been changed? Well, we compare it to the hashed at the store
on chain and we get an instant check on whether or not that verifiable credential has been modified and we can look at the different cryptographic proofs that are at the bottom of the other verifiable credential. Plus we can also check whether or not the information actually fits the request and are
So that's what I think is so cool about fairifiable credentials. They are kind of like the shipping containers of the digital age. They allow you to package a lot of
information and now we're just talking identity information but it could be a whole lot of other information. They allow you to package it and to ship it across different organizations across different databases across different frontends and everybody should be able to understand this data, should be able to instantly
verify and to verify this information and start using it. So they really bridge trust between organizations. And if we can build more of these trust bridges, if we can make these break the silos between organizations down, we can access
type of frictionless world where it's way easier to be in control of your data and to send it over to organizations that you before were not connected to each other. But now due to the use of blockchain as a trust anchor and the verifiable credential as
a kind of commonly understood language, you can open up a whole new world. And that's actually what I usually get excited about. That's what makes me look at the digital age in a different way.
Wow, wow, like that is that is just so exciting. I think with that pitch, you've totally sold me on this technology and and how it's going to be so important going forward in the future and for web 3. So so to sum it up and
And so let me see if I understand this correctly. It sounds a little bit like a PKI public infrastructure and the certificate authorities that issue digital certificates for TLS SSL, etc. And verifying the identities of
websites, but however, you guys are working on a kind of programmable solution that will do so much more. I mean, probably many of the use cases that will come up for this kind of technology haven't even been thought of yet. Would you
Yeah, we're at the very early start. The problem is that the infrastructure is not there yet. So we need the blockchains, we need wallets to exist, we need to resolve, versus to exist, we need everybody to become aware of not only
the verifiable credential framework, but also the self-sovereign identity framework where we step away from centralized parties that issue credentials, but it's really the identity owner that owns his own credentials and that uses different parties to issue credentials to
them and them being constantly in control of that credential. So there's a lot of infrastructure that still has to develop, still has to, yeah, exist or still has to emerge. So the same
So it's early days, that's absolutely true. But there's, and this space is absolutely exploding and I'm very happy to see that there are so many competitors almost because it means that a lot of people will be working on this interoperability
on this shared standard. And that in a future, we really would have that type of interoperability where you can just send that fairifiable credential from one issue or to another, from one organization to another because it's so well-adopted.
definitely and a pocket audit is of course the perfect place to do that because of the less trust and more truth aspect of how we operate here. So I just want to jump over to to your token you mentioned that you have an ERC
I'm just wondering how that actually factors in how does it play into your actual product? And then what will the product itself look like? Like the first iteration that's going to be launched coming up here in early 2023?
Yeah, very good question. So it will be a utility token. Most likely we are still working and also planning the the tokenomics and the utility of that token in the kind of identity ecosystem or identity economics. But most likely we
will be used as a gas fee or as a gas fee for issuing certain credentials for paying for the issuing of certain credentials. But it could also be an incentive, could be used as an incentive for DAPS who want to know more about their
community and want to incentivize users to share a bit more, to open up a bit more in a private and secure way. That's as much as I can disclose now as we're still fine tuning those details, but about the product itself.
So how you could see the identity help that will be launching so the identity help is actually I define it personally as three things one it is an interface to interact with our protocol to interact with our blockchain to be able to aggregate all of your identities and with aggregate
I mean to prove ownership over your Twitter account to prove ownership over your Reddit, your Instagram GitHub, Discord, but also all of your other blockchain wallet addresses. So an interface to prove ownership over them and to store them in the trusted execution environment.
from which you are unable to start generating those fairifiable credentials that you can share with other parties. Now, that's as an interface to our protocol. We also use it as a gateway, a gateway to other depths, so we will attract applications and business partners.
that I always say that want to know more by asking less. Currently they are asking wallet addresses and that's actually too much because the wallet address contains a lot more information than they need. They need to start asking very specifically with the data that they need. If you are a DeFi application,
You don't need all of the NFT data. You don't need all of the Dow data that a user has generated on their wallet address. You just very specifically need to know, for example, how much decentralized exchanges this user is using. How long has he been in the ecosystem without using
seeing all of that other accounts data or identity data that might be related to a wallet address. So we help depth to know more by asking less and to also set up a quest setup at the type of template in which
they guide their users in a respectful way, in a privacy preserving way, to open up a little bit more, but just share the right details that that meets under the own authorization of the user and know in a
And a pretty low-resolution information resolution so that the user can stay anonymous if they'd like to. So we really focus on that privacy preserving aspect, which also allows us to unlock some pretty sensitive use cases such as unruly-collateralized landing or a credit score.
So as I said, first of all, it's an interface to our protocol. Then it's a gateway, a gateway to access new DAPs, to access benefits, offers, customizations, more engaging experiences that DAPs finally can offer now that they have access to some identity information, to some
on privatized and anonymous identity information. And then on the long term, as a third way, I see our identity help as a platform where you as an identity owner can go shopping, can go experimenting with the different innovations with the different offers that the ecosystem has.
has in store for you. So you based on your identity profile might get access to specific products to specific services because they are fitting to your expertise, to your preferences. And that is in a later stage once we have adoption from both sides
of our audiences on one side, the identity owner and on the other side, the identity verifier or consumer, which we see as the depth, who wants to respect the privacy of his users, but would also like to offer them a bit more of an engaging experience with the help of that identity data.
I hope that is a bit of an explanation of how our identity hub works just in words. I cannot show any designs to other spaces, but I hope that makes sense to you guys. No worries. It makes a lot of sense. You've done a really great job of explaining how it works. So it sounds like I'm from your identity hub.
So I wonder if you could just tell us what kind of
That's a development you're at right now and what that's going to be looking like over the next couple of months as you get towards, I'll come closer to lunch. Yeah, I need to be very careful with giving any statements about product release because
My engineers will kill me otherwise. But internally we are testing the palace necessary for the functionality I just explained. We have the products in somewhat of a functional state on our end.
But we obviously have to fine tune several things. We have to experiment more with how the tokenomics would work, how also the different assertions that we need. So an assertion I could explain that a bit more. An assertion is actually the type of truth statements that we need
We might need a lot of a lot more truth statements to be generated before we can offer a lot of functionality Just issuing how much Twitter follower somebody has has only a limited amount of of usability It only gets you so far and all of those assertions all
of those true statements, they have to be hard coded in or trusted execution environment. So we, on the one side, we need inputs from projects, we need input from DAPS to get a good overview of the type of identity data that they are looking for, the type of identity data that is valid.
to them and then also turn them into assertions that we can hard-quote into the trust of execution environment. So that's a long path. And as much as I can say now, is that in the next few months we will put up some sign-ups
forms on our website where you can get access to alpha and beta versions of our product to help us test and to show that you are motivated and interested contributor to our community and to the project and that would probably be the best way to get early access to our
project. So definitely keep an eye on our channels, keep an eye on our website and that's the best way to see how far we are with the product. I cannot really give a lot of dates or deadlines at this point. Well, well, thanks for telling us what you can.
It sounds like you've so got a few challenges to address along the way and before you get to to product launch. And so you mentioned that you're going to be having some some testing coming up and people will be able to sign up for that. What's the best way for people to follow your project?
I think our Twitter is pre-active. I think we're almost posting there every day and then the website is going to get an update in the next month, which will then also contain a sign-up
form and all of the different channels that you can interact with us. This court is also pretty active and our telegram is one of the places where telegram is probably one of the places that you can have really the
up to date and actual information. And we're also sharing some community updates on these channels with recorded by all of the colleagues and members of the Lydentree Court team.
nice nice um that's awesome so yeah definitely give a live entry project to follow for anyone in the audience and we're gonna open it up here in another minute for people to ask questions from the audience so do keep those in mind if we're not having
any rewards for best questions today but we'll be back again next week with another promotion that people can participate in. So before we open it up to questions from the audience I wonder if you have anything else to add to.
Good question. What do I have to add? Well, I think it's just an exciting time for decentralized identities. I think it's an exciting time for the crypto space in general.
everybody is seeing how important decentralization is with the latest FDX, Fiasco. People are waking up that private keys are the actual innovation. It's not just about the money making, it's about using your private key as
ownership rights on the internet. It's about using your private key as secure digital identity reference and people are just waking up to the power of that. I think that's something everybody should remember.
for sure. Yeah, and it sounds to me like, like a multi chain identity aggregation is going to be a new paradigm similar to, you know, was in smart contracts and interoperability protocols. So really, really excited for what the future has
store for for lit entry and and some other projects that are sharing this kind of excitement. I see Astar's in the audience today and of course we're here at Darwinio working on interoperability as well. So we got exciting times for the
or ecosystem. I wonder if anybody has any questions in our audience? There's a pretty thorough AMA, I think, and you did a wonderful job explaining all the various concepts behind Lit Entry. Does anybody have any questions?
It doesn't look like it and I'll take that as a good sign that we covered all our bases here today. So I do want to thank you very much for joining us here today, tune on behalf of the Lit Entry Network.
And I'm really excited to see what you are working on in the future. Perhaps we'll have you on again as you get towards the product launched in early 2023. So so yeah, any last words that are to
Yeah, thanks very much for having me. Let's do this again. I would also like to invite you on one of our AMAs pretty soon. And definitely let's stay in touch to see where decentralized cross-chain
identity can bring us and see what new innovations and opportunities we can unlock. Thanks for for the attention today everyone who's been here and best of luck to everyone.
for sharing. Thank you so much for joining us. Everyone today, I know it's been a pretty dramatic and chaotic week and it's turned a lot of people off from from the crypto ecosystem overall, but so happy to have you all with us.
here today and do stay tuned for more AMAs from Darwinia. We'll be hosting RoboNomics team next Friday at the same time. So we'll be offering some promotions and rewards for that one as well.
as far as I know. So stay tuned to our video AMAs for more information about them. Take care everyone. I hope you have a wonderful day and a wonderful weekend. We'll see you all again next week.