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Decentralized ZK Proving for Web3's Next Chapter - IBC Eureka x ZkCloud
Recorded: April 24, 2025 Duration: 0:51:09Space Recording
Short Summary
CK Cloud is gearing up for its mainnet launch, enhancing its decentralized cloud services for zero-knowledge proof generation. The partnership with Eureka aims to revolutionize interoperability across blockchain ecosystems, while the CK Cloud token is set to play a crucial role in the ZK proving market.
Full Transcription
E aí so um Gracias. E aí um E aí so E aí Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. E aí E aí Thank you. Welcome, Timo. Thank you for holding on a little bit. Hopefully, you guys can hear me. Timo,
holding on a little bit.
Hopefully you guys can hear me.
Timo, welcome to the space.
How are you doing today?
Timo Timo- Hello, hello.
I'm good.
Can you hear me all right?
Timo Timo- I can hear you perfectly.
Wonderful.
Timo Timo- Where are you calling in from, Timo?
Timo Timo- I'm in Helsinki in Finland.
Timo Timo- Beautiful, beautiful.
Different spaces I'm calling in from Lisbon and Portugal,
Santa Lisbon, to talk about Secret Cloud, Eureka,
and all things Cosmos.
Thank you so much for joining us.
I'll be covering today.
The host, Roel, has some troubles with his connection.
I think X is having a couple hiccups as usual.
But it's such a pleasure to have you here, Timo.
It's wonderful to have you join us in space and to hear from Ciclet Cloud.
We had the chance as well to see a couple of your members of your team in Denver.
And since then, the road and how close the cloud has gotten to has been
immense hopefully it felt the same for you as you guys were coming in deeper
yes sorry you cut off?
Can someone put thumbs up if they can hear me?
Okay, I guess it's connection issues on Nico's side.
I feel like humanity really should have figured this stuff out already. We would think, we would think.
We would think.
We would think.
Can you hear me now, Timo?
Can you hear me now, Timo?
Yeah, you're back.
Yeah, apparently, you know, dual-wielding desktop and mobile is not the favorite thing for X.
But I was saying, calling in from Sun at Lisbon, it's been quite a time since we met the team as well in Denver in the cold weather.
And CK Cloud has been making strides in cosmos from its integration into eureka and then of course
all the releases coming up how do you feel do you feel at home in cosmos so far
yeah yeah i mean cosmos is is um has definitely been a good choice for us uh but i i think this
whole eureka thing is gonna take it to another level.
Like I will talk about it, I
guess, in a bit.
I think there's a lot of opportunity
in having kind of a
generic cross chain
bridge across everywhere and being
able to port proofs all over the place.
So, yeah, we've been pretty happy.
And I mean, we chose Cosmos before any of this was really announced.
So yeah, it's been fun.
It's gotten our creative minds going,
thinking about all the use cases we can build on this
or that other people can build.
And we're super excited for it.
I think part of our just happiness with the release of Eureka
is seeing
builders pick up the concept and taking it really really far in terms of ideation um for context
and to start with some quick intro as well for everybody that's now joining in as we go live
hiccups and connection you know averted ck cloud first credibly neutral you know decentralized
connection, you know, averted.
CK Cloud, first creatively neutral, you know,
decentralized cloud for CK proof generation verification.
It's been such a pleasure to see the project grow.
Can you tell us a little bit, Timo,
about the proving network and the chain itself
and how it operates for newcomers here?
Yeah, so we call it a universal proving network.
Basically, every ZK roll up, every ZK coprocessor,
basically everything ZK needs proof generated.
We do that and we try to do that in the cheapest,
most performant way possible.
So the vision in some ways is just to do all the world's proving.
And to do that in a generic way, I think I saw a list recently from our head of product, which is that there is like 19 plus different ZKVMs now.
So, yes.
And I think it's only going to get worse, right?
Like, obviously, we're going to consolidate to, like,
a couple mature kind of technologies in terms of ZKVMs.
But at the same time, we're going to constantly be wanting to be pushing the performance forward.
And so you'll have new projects coming up.
And so we wanted to specifically have a generic network
so people can deploy provers.
We're going to deploy kind of the most commonly used ones but
like if you're building or working on a new zkvm or or just have some kind of like custom prover
you want to use you can deploy that yourself in a permissionless way and so we feel that's
that's quite important um on a technical level basically zk ZK Cloud is a Cosmos chain
that handles the financial aspect of the proving
as well as the orchestration.
So the chain, I mean, it does all kinds of things,
but it can be reduced to it verifies that different prover
nodes are doing what they said they would do
and manages the rewards for those
and handles the orchestration. So it keeps track of the capacity of a prover node. Basically,
whenever you submit a proving task, the chain sees what prover node it goes to. We know what
the prover node's hardware capacity is, and so we try to allocate them as efficiently as possible.
And so that's kind of what it is.
That's very exciting,
and I wanted to ask a little quick question is,
you're mentioning we have a lot of diversity,
of course, in the CKVM field,
on Provers, even us, of course,
we're using Suksynth for URIK itself to run the proofs.
On the road to production and main it, do you have a couple of use cases that you're seeing
to be more in focus today? Or are you more hopeful that the generalized approach will give you
a nice exploration and they want to see what's what's more priority
right now um well in the short term we're very focused on kind of like the clear commercial
use cases um so the network can be used by anyone to do you know whatever but um we ourselves we
just announced we're doing we're proving all ethereum mainnet blocks um we're doing proving for Aztec
for zika sync um scroll folks like that um and so we're really focused on kind of like these
continuous you know big proving workloads where it's sort of a mission critical thing for the
project um and even within those that I listed right like we're proving ethereum mainnet with sp1
we're expecting risk zero to be added in as well so like we'll probably be sort of proving with
both of them Aztec completely different thing zk-sync completely different thing so
the necessity for kind of being generic, it becomes pretty quickly evident
when you start going down this road.
Yeah, I think we've barely seen, I think,
a corner of the different options and use cases.
So optionality is sort of an amazing start
to just let the canvas be used by people.
How are you guys preparing for this launch?
Well, yeah, just as a final note,
the other thing is that even the sort of individual zKVMs,
they're changing constantly.
So if we did a hard-coded thing,
we would basically just be creating a massive maintenance burden for ourselves.
While having this kind of more permissionless structure,
basically like let's say that there are like,
you know,
20 ZK stack chains using the ZK sync prover that's been deployed.
ZK sync themselves can just basically
deploy a new version um when they want to make changes and coordinate it without needing to
coordinate with us and so like we're a small team so this kind of stuff actually matters like we're
not going to have um enough resources to constantly be maintaining every little piece of this
no it's more like providing distribution rails, right?
Like in the end, there's so many options,
but as long as people can use them, hot swap.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
And, you know, on the kind of like,
there's always this question as well of like,
does it need to be decentralized or does it not?
And I want to just touch on that briefly
before we get into like the the mainnet
stuff uh because i think it's like an actual it's not a it's not clear uh in some ways like right now
if you were to ask different roll-up teams i think they would probably say they don't really care if
it's decentralized or not um but then when you actually start like undertaking these proving
workloads like ethereum wants to do every block
and not only do they want to do every block they want to do every block um in as close to real time
as possible so um doing all the blocks uh doesn't really require decentralization um but if you want
to be close to real time then suddenly you have like you need like exponentially more hardware because basically
the way you do it is that you just spread it out on like 300 gpus or something like that
um and so you add these up and the amounts of hardware just become like you know google scale
yeah and so you know for for an individual company unless you're already a Google or an Amazon, it's like basically impossible to build up that kind of hardware capacity without like a ridiculous amount of money. is we can actually do that with token incentives. We can just create an incentive
and people all around the world will find
the most cost efficient way of delivering
that hardware to a network.
And we can kind of pool resources to get
to that kind of scale.
And so I think that's kind of why it matters.
It's not so much it matters today,
but if we're imagining a future world
where basically every chain, every bridge,
every, you know, everything uses ZK for something or other,
the amount of hardware we'll need to do that is just immense.
And so I think it becomes important in the long term.
And of course, we don't want everything running on a single prover like one company either.
In the end, usually people forget that a web or web services scale matters and it matters up and it matters down, right?
Like demand goes up for certain, let's say, provers and adjusting that cloud infrastructure.
First, of course, like paying for amazon grade
cluster it's like an insane lift yeah i mean i mean for for anyone who doesn't know like amazon
google you know microsoft azure all these cloud services they're like they went from super
convenient to basically a scam like they're like 10, 20 times more expensive than bare metal.
They're extracting so much value right now.
And we don't really have optionality to them that much.
We'll probably start seeing, I mean, on the AI side, we're seeing some competitors pop up because it's such a niche, or such a specific use case.
But cloud is just not viable.
We have that benefit that basically via the incentives
and the economic sort of market that nodes generate.
It's like a dynamic demand and supply pool.
It goes up, there's less incentives, less nodes.
So I think you hit a great point in terms
of why it matters actually to decentralize this infrastructure um and more so as you said now
clarifying that on the road to main it you want to jump in on how those funds are looking
yeah um so maybe just like a quick um history for the the folks that haven't been following us.
So we launched our DevNet early last year, which was like a super hacky kind of version of this thing.
Didn't scale.
It worked for doing proving, but didn't scale.
And all the use cases require scale.
So since then, we've been working on something called Firestarter, which is a permissioned network.
It's a Cosmos-based or Cosmos SDK-based chain, and it does the whole sort of proving workflow.
That's been out now since late last year, although it hasn't been functional all the time.
There's all kinds of...
It's fairly complicated, all the stuff that we've had to do
but it is now being used and we're stress testing it and so that will kind of remain
for probably quite a while so a lot of the proving sort of production proving will be on
Firestarter because it's just easier for us to ensure that's stable.
And these sort of proving use cases like for a roll-up, it is mission critical that they get the proof.
And so we need to make sure that that is just super safe.
And then we'll be launching mainnet and kind of like slowly transitioning to mainnet. So the sort of mainnet chain itself
will launch here quite shortly. I don't want to give like a specific date,
like we're technically ready.
We're just logistically figuring things out.
Mainnet has been achieved internally as they say, you know?
Yeah, yeah.
So I mean, we've been running a test net
for a while now um it all looks good um um and so yeah mainnet has been achieved uh internally but
not yet externally um uh so that that should be coming quite soon and that will basically be just
like the chain at first and then we'll slowly start to add proving functionality
from Firestarter to mainnet.
We'll be testing it very thoroughly.
And then once, it's not even so much when we're happy with it.
It's more like when our users and clients
are comfortable moving over, then we'll move them over
and phase Fire our starter out
um and so that's kind of the the plan um in the near term wonderful it's i think it's a very sensible approach as well because it's very service and product based right you're offering
yeah something you know and i think we're always sorry and i think we're we're we're kind of inundated with all these like
launches and stuff but like you know even even using cosmos sdk like putting out decentralized
systems that does do something new um is quite hard it's often not like the like there's the
technical aspects but then there's like the incentives and kind of the security.
And especially in our system, we need to be really careful
because we are not doing re-execution.
So when we have a prover node generate a prove,
we don't have 100 other nodes doing the same thing.
And so we have a completely different
incentive structure than really anything that has existed in the blockchain market before
which is also its superpower in a way right like well it's going to be much much more efficient
but there's a lot of design space and and sort of security research that goes into just making sure that
it works well and some of it we're just going to need to test and prod like some of it there's no
test net circumstance where we'll be able to see how it works but like um but that's why we'll do
this slow phase so that we can actually like test uh things on mainnet with real incentives,
see how they go before we put any like real production
workloads on there.
I think what I was gonna add is practically what you were
covering, I've seen many products follow this approach
of a phased out mainnet.
And as you say, specifically when you're rolling out
something that's as much in the edge as this is, you know, CK and Proven is a market that's barely been exploding this 2024, right?
So taking new design choices like you are to either favor performance as well.
Yeah, I think it's the reasonable way.
Do you want to dive a little bit more into the incentive structure and how that differentiates
from the normal models?
Maybe some folks in the community are less aware how usually the provers are incentivized
and how in your case this is different due to this design choice?
Well, like usually provers are not incentivized.
Right now, most of the proving happens by the roll-up companies themselves.
Yeah.
Right.
So that like, so like the current status quo is, is I am a company, let's say I'm like
Starkware or Matter Labs or something.
I run a sequencer, I run provers.
And then I like maybe collect some fees from the sequencer and I'm just kind of like spending money to do the proving.
And what that's transitioning to is and many already do this, like scroll outsources some of its proving to us and other folks um uh and aztec is going to be decentralized
from day one so there's going to be multiple um provers probably doing that um so it is gonna
work in a slightly different way our sort of long-term goal is for new roll-ups um and zk
projects to just not need to think about this at all.
Like they just basically integrate with ZK cloud and that gives them
the like, because right now a lot of them are building their own
like prover mechanisms and prover marketplace things.
So our goal is to not have them do that at all.
In terms of the incentives, it's it's a long discussion but i
can try to to summarize so proving has this um how would i put it there's this unique thing in
proving uh where uh because you want to bring the costs down as much as possible, you actually don't really want people to stake anything because then very quickly,
the stake becomes most of the cost structure.
So like the opportunity cost of putting up the money overshadows the cost of the hardware.
And so you kind of like immediately move outside of like in terms of competing with a pure centralized approach, the stake kind of messes it up for you.
And so that requires you to think about different ways of ensuring that provers are incentivized to do things in the right way.
or incentivized to do things in the right way.
Our specific structure hasn't been open sourced
because there's quite a lot of companies in the community
who've been very aggressive about copy pasting,
whatever we put out.
But it's sort of like a mix of a proof of work
and a type of reputation system is maybe what I'll
what I'll say about it um but so that's kind of the one thing and then there's um another question
relating to um do you kind of reward provers only for the work they've done or or do you have some
other mechanism to ensure that there are provers there?
So you also, like any cloud-based, like we really think about this as basically like a decentralized cloud.
So any cloud business needs to maintain some extra capacity so they can onboard new users.
We have that same dynamic.
And so not only do we need to reward kind of provers for the work they've done,
we also need to have some mechanism by which we can maintain excess capacity in a way where
it's still financially reasonable for like both the chain as well as the parties operating the
hardware. And so that's where sort of the, we have like a, we have two different kind of reward structures to deal with those two things.
It's super important to note as, as you say, Timo,
that cloud specifically in our infrastructure,
let's say has a different set of challenges when,
when it goes to, when it comes to incentives. And again,
if you look at cloud
and how they operate as businesses,
A, you said you need part capacity.
That's something that on Ethereum
is not like you have part nodes
lying around just waiting
to take extra load.
Well, on Ethereum,
all the nodes are doing the same thing.
And so they're not available
to take extra loads,
but they're also not doing anything useful they they are they are sort of doing repeated work
repeated work equals more cost cloud and edge for example it's all about like
work minimization and just good replication um and then you have of course the load itself put on the nodes
how do you reward that
as much as people for example
or your clients let's say have different demands
than they would have from a normal network
or just like the finance side of work
like what do you tell a client about your uptimes
and how can you provide uptime agreements that are actually
enforced on chain it's like a whole different conundrum yes i mean the answer to uptime stuff
is you can't really enforce uptime on chain if you're only doing a workload on one node the solution is simply to have a very elegant and fast backup
like fallbacks as well as pretty heavy punishment for basically uptime failures
so yeah as said it's a very complicated sort of thing.
I like right here today, I don't think we've figured out everything.
We have kind of like a design we think is will work,
but I'm sure we're going to need to tweak it and sort of
identify new edge cases as we go.
And there's like it's it's also like driven a lot by the clients right like they kind of dictate to us we originally thought we were actually going to have redundancy
by default um so we would have for example like four different provers compete to generate a proof
and then we talked to clients um and they all basically said like yeah we don't want to pay for any extra proving and it's like okay so then we need to change the design and so that's kind
of like the way we'll go about it um so like applying a pretty standard kind of tech startup
approach to to blockchain ecosystem we do see this kind of a lot into in interoperability as well it's like we're
in the end trust assumptions and how they are uh configured a lot of that is being left up
to the decision of the clients um and we're seeing more modular or configurable systems
it's super exciting to see this as well on the proving front. Maybe let's switch gears a little bit and bring it home to Eureka
and the connection that this provides for CK Cloud.
How are you seeing the interaction of CK Cloud with other ecosystems like Ethereum
that now prove the cloud services can reach through Eureka?
Yeah.
Yeah, so I think this is really exciting. I'm going to start
with the kind of boring, obviously. And then I'll, I'll ramp up the craziness as we go along.
So the, the, the sort of immediate first thing for us, so our, our token is used for paying for
proving. So essentially it will be a kind of proxy for the ZK proving market,
right? And so just getting that into other ecosystems, I think is interesting. Like,
from the perspective of people being able to invest in it from a lot of different places,
but also in terms of using it in DeFi, Like I can imagine there being collateral in DeFi type use cases that people start exploring
because it'll probably trade quite differently to many other tokens, given that proving is,
while the proving market is cyclical in the way that crypto is cyclical,
but it is revenue generating in all circumstances.
Because the networks that use the get proofs, this is like mission critical
infrastructure, they have to pay for proving regardless of the market situation.
So that creates potentially interesting things that people can do in DeFi.
Going into like the actual stuff that we're most excited about, the ability to just have proofs anywhere, I think is really interesting.
So by using IBC, you can basically, if you generate proofs on ZK Cloud, you can basically choose an L1 as long as they support IBC Eureka, where you want to verify that proof.
So you get this really nice pipeline
to whatever destination chain.
I haven't come up with all the use cases that this may create.
But as just one example, you can potentially
have a roll up, which has a flexible security
structure where it kind of switches over time uh what l1 it's using for verification
and so i think that's super interesting um smart contracts on other chains can trigger proving
um which i think is also fascinating.
This kind of goes in like the ZK coprocessor direction.
I don't think we've really seen super good use cases for that yet.
Mostly, I think it's like DeFi stuff. There's some use cases around like uh some like evm operation or calculation
uh is just really expensive it's cheaper to do a proof off chain and then get it there
um so those types of things become possible where a user on ethereum or a user on solana or a user
somewhere can trigger a proof being generated and then verified again from the chain itself
so you have this kind of loop um then going into like what i think is maybe the uh
most exciting stuff so the right now in the whole zk industry i'm talking like well the whole roll
up industry the biggest problem is interoperability
um ZK solves interoperability um I would argue already today it's just not implemented yet
Imagine a future world where there are roll ups on all kinds of chains in different places.
um and optimistic structures cannot do interoperability better um and so if we imagine a future world where there are roll-ups on all kinds of chains um in different places
IBC Eureka can actually be the way in which the proofs get shipped around.
So if I'm going from an Ethereum roll up to say, I don't know, like a roll up that's using Cosmos hub for security or something like that.
IBC is the natural way for that proof to travel and get verified.
So that I think is cool.
And then finally, like, I think Cosmos is starting to be positioned to basically be the
entire modular stack.
stack so we have celestia we have uh there's us um uh we could like i think people will want to
So we have Celestia, we have this us.
choose where they kind of verify or what chain they use for security so we have ivc eureka giving
you flexibility on that we basically maybe just need like a sequencing uh like a decentralized
sequencer chain and that would be the entire stack and because of ivc that works already quite well
within cosmos and now externally um you can have kind of the whole roll-up flow what i mean is kind
of like the whole um try the whole structure of the roll-up um be implemented on a network of Cosmos chains that are specialized in different
things.
I don't know if that's ever going to happen, but given that people are already doing these
modular stack approaches and all the modular stack pieces seem to be in the Cosmos ecosystem
in one way or another, it sort of feels like it would make sense
for that to be the case.
We have seen a couple examples here and there,
even in Isha coming live to the mainnet
with an interoperable roll-up structure.
I think it's just the tip of the iceberg on this front.
And as you say, CK has proven, no pun intended,
that it has been the way for interop.
And most importantly, interoperability,
where you have like the spar systems on each side
that you usually do not speak to each other.
Yeah.
And it has been such a breakthrough.
Let me give the floor here to Mag as well,
who's joining us in the conversation.
How are you doing, Mag?
Hey, folks, I'm so sorry.
I had to deal with some crisis with my dog.
But I'm back.
I'm back.
I hope your dog is all right.
Yes.
All should be okay.
And I know that Nico is a much more capable host than I am anyway.
So I hope he provided some good conversation.
No, this week you have CK proven that you're a great host, Mag,
and that you can carry the torch.
So super happy that you're talking, CK.
I'm sorry to hear that, man.
Yeah, I mean, I'm sure you guys already chatted about everything,
but Timu just wanted to say thank you so much for joining.
You know, very excited about this partnership.
One of the things that I was talking to Barry
about the other day is there's not a lot of ZK
in Cosmos right now.
And there's not a lot of ZK that we're familiar with.
And Eureka was really the first part of the stack
that was ZK enabled.
And personally, I'm just very excited to be partnering with you guys really the first part of the stack that was ZK enabled.
And personally, I'm just very excited to be partnering
with you guys and to have that expertise
and to sort of like figure out cooler and cooler things
that we could do together.
Yeah, we were just talking about kind of like Eureka
and how it relates to us and ZK potentially.
And I said, I think there's a really
interesting opportunity for ibc eureka to be kind of like the way in which proofs are shipped around
the whole crypto ecosystem that's cool like both for interoperability but also for like
flexible you know security basically we can start to abstract away like the concept of defined
environments that currently exists in the roll-up space.
That's very cool. Yeah. One of the things that I saw, I don't know if you saw this as well,
is, I forget the exact name of the product, but there's a lot of movement on this technology called ZKTLS, which I forget the name of it. I think it might've been like ZK pay or something like that,
but it was so cool.
You could send money.
It was an onboarding product,
like a crypto onboarding product.
And you could send money to a random like bank account with like Zelle or
Venmo or something like that.
And then you could submit the proof that you did that on chain.
And then that would unlock you a deposit into your account or into some account on the blockchain.
And I just thought that was so awesome because and all that was done with ZKTLS because you have like, as far as I far as I understand, ZKTLS can basically create a proof out of any kind of HTTP or HTTPS connection.
And I just thought that was awesome that you could use ZK to expand Interop like that, even beyond just blockchain and blockchain.
You know, you can even expand it into sort of like
the outside world in that way.
I was curious if you saw anything like that
or if you guys have explored TLS at all.
Yeah.
Yeah, so I mean, I've been following ZKTLS.
I would imagine Norbert from my team might be better informed. But so my understanding, well, first of all, ZK Cloud, we're like exclusively focused on very near term commercial use cases because, you know, we need the chain to make money. And so that that makes sense and there's a lot to cover there um these types of things where we pay attention to um but don't
really fall into that category my understanding is that zktls still relies on a trusted proxy proxy um and um and from our perspective it probably doesn't help the process if in addition
to that um uh they do the proving on on our side because uh it's it's sort of like a privacy proof
um like you know an Aztec or Alio proof in some ways where um you have you're doing something with
HTTPS you prove that this thing happened um and obviously you could generate the proof
wherever you want um but given you need kind of like this third party as per my understanding right ending right now um uh that might not make as much sense so I think super cool in terms of
onboarding stuff and I think it's like the the more we can sort of start going into web 2 with
crypto integrated products the better I'm not sure it's like a commercial use case for us
specifically i see so there's not really a place where you said it's the the proof or the prover
that that could be on your platform or yeah i mean yeah you could generate the proof on our
platform i actually don't know how heavy the proofs are. So like ZK Cloud is great for proving anything
where you don't need a privacy guarantee
for that specific proof because the data.
Oh, I see. Gotcha.
Available.
And also where the proving is just heavy in general, right?
Like if you can generate the proof on your phone,
you don't need a an external service um and so i i'm not sure how
zk tls falls um in terms of in terms of those uh two things um there might be a privacy component
maybe um or the proving might not be that big but from our perspective the main thing is just like
there's not that much of that kind of proving happening right now.
Like it's still quite early.
And so once those things start to be higher volume, then we'll get like more engaged with that. And of course, because it is permissionless, people can already use ZK Cloud to prove if they want to.
Like if you're working on a ZKTLS product and you want to get some free cloud compute,
basically hit us up and we'll help you out.
Yeah.
I think from my perspective, yeah, it might be really interesting because, you know,
especially as you said, as we want to expand permissionless technology into Web 2,
it seems like a really interesting potential way to connect to Web 2
in a way that we don't have to sacrifice our ideals, right,
of permissionlessness or privacy or provability or verifiability.
And you could, you know, through this,
you could have something like,
you could have an IBC connection to your bank.
You know, you could have an IBC connection to,
you know, Venmo,
which I just think would be a really interesting expansion
and, you know, a great way to help distribute products
in the Cosmos ecosystem.
Yeah, and especially if it's generic enough
where you can just hook up all kinds of stuff, right?
Yeah.
I feel like until now,
it's basically stablecoin operators have been able to,
or they've been positioned to provide some Web2-type services.
But then what about everything else?
So yeah, I agree.
Totally, totally.
I know we're probably at the end of the space,
but I'm glad I got to catch you at the very end, T. Wood.
Thank you so much for coming on.
Yeah, very excited about this.
Very excited you guys took the plunge.
Very excited to have you folks
in the Cosmos and and partnered um and so i just wanted to say big thank you to you
thank you it's gonna be an exciting few years i think i hope so i think it already is so far so
that's true that's true but i think I think Cosmos is in an interesting position relative to the space right now.
So we'll see how it goes.
But I think Eureka is the right way to go about it and explore, you know,
expanding Cosmos influence beyond the Cosmos ecosystem.
Yeah.
Totally agree.
As we hit the time then,
Timo, to wrap it up again,
thank you.
Thank you so much for coming in.
We're super excited about everything happening
on the road to main it as well.
As parting words,
what do you want people
to watch out for
in terms of CK Cloud
and what's coming up
in the agenda?
I know you don't want to say specific dates here,
but what should people be excited for?
I mean, mainnet, of course.
So, I mean, follow the ZK Cloud on Twitter.
That's probably your best way to stay informed.
Or I think you can also sign up for sort of the newsletter on our website,
which is ukcloud.com.
We will let you know when things are happening.
The most exciting thing, Mainnet.
Yeah.
Awesome.
That's amazing.
Awesome.
All right, Timu.
Thank you, guys. Back as well. Thank. All right, Timo.
Thank you guys.
Thank you for popping in a little bit later.
It's wonderful to speak with you both and Timo, also to hear everything CK and CK Cloud.
This will not be the last, probably we'll be chatting.
We'll continue chatting, Eureka and things.
We can build together on it.
But again, thank you so much and we'll catch everybody in the next one.
See you.
