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DeFi Coalition
Recorded: March 27, 2026 Duration: 1:03:36Space Recording
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. you
gmgm everyone good Good morning, good afternoon, good evening.
Happy to be here on another space with MBX, USDM. Hello, everyone. Hi, Stig. How are you? it's happening roll good to hear your voice i've got a little radio voice going on right now man
i don't know i know what she did, but a little deeper tone there.
Nice.
Just a bit sick the last days.
I'm getting better now.
I had that with my cold.
I had like a sexy jazz voice for a little while.
I could have done some jazz singing for a minute.
Let's wait a few minutes for the others to join, for community to join the space. Feel free to
share the Twitter space with your friends, with your followers. Here today we are going to talk about what we have been cooking,
what's currently live and what this collaboration is going to become in the
future. you
are we missing anyone from from on your side?
Jack?
I don't see.
So if Marco wants to come up, it's up to him whether he'd like to be up and share or not,
if he can.
I know sometimes he can't. But I see Tim down there with Finest. Wouldn't mind having
him up. We've had some great conversations with what they're doing there with Finest
and also with Bloxsign. Getting used to seeing the logo for the Plum and Legacy Fund. For those of you who don't know,
that is the fund that just was initiated just recently.
And so if you've not followed that account,
I would love for you guys to be able to go ahead and follow that account
and also retweet or post there in order for other people to see it as well.
This will be a new part of Moneta and W3i and will be a
signature part of what we're doing with the DeFi Coalition.
Okay, here we go with Marco also in in the space hi marco how are you
good how are you
it's all good over here i believe that everyone is on the stage so i would say that we can kick off. Thanks, everyone, for joining the Twitter space.
Today we are going to talk about what is this DeFi coalition,
this initiative that it started, I believe, that the first time I heard about it,
it was in Berlin during Cardano Summit,
that Jake came to me and spoke about this idea.
And it's nice to see an idea that is finally
something tangible, something that you can really touch
and you can interact with.
So before jumping directly in the topics,
maybe we can do an introduction of everyone,
just for the ones
that don't know us.
Well, I am Raul, the CTO of Fluid Tokens.
I am on the technical side of Fluid Tokens regarding
integration with smart contracts and also integration
with partners.
And that's why we are here.
And what about you, Stig?
Would you like to introduce yourself and maybe nbx
is he talking because uh i can't hear him yes not sure if you... You are muted currently, so we cannot hear you.
Okay, you can hear me.
There we are. We can hear you now.
Yeah, it looks like it's connected.
Yeah, we lost him.
You're good now, Stig.
Yeah, can you hear me now?
Perfect.
Yeah.
Okay.
I don't know.
I don't know what happened there, but okay.
That's why people didn't respond when I said something.
That's why.
Okay, so I'm CEO of MBX.
Our part in this is
we're a Norwegian crypto exchange
and we do a lot of different stuff.
Our main role in this
DeFi coalition is that
we are the European issuer
of the USDM stablecoin.
And I think we're more or less
doing business with everyone up on the stage here now.
So we'll come back to that.
But yeah, thanks for having me.
And definitely thanks for being invited into this coalition.
Thanks to you for being part of it.
And James, who are you?
I think that many don't know you.
Maybe, maybe not.
So obviously, my name is James, blockchain for anybody that's on X quite a bit.
I am the business development lead for USDM, one of the founding members of USDOC and Moneta and also one of the principles behind bringing the DeFi coalition
to fruition along with Aisten and I'll let Aisten introduce himself. Hey everyone, Aisten, I'm head
of staking and Cardano ecosystem at Norwegian Block Exchange. Yeah, it's really cool to see how James is really executing on these.
It's true, we discussed this already in Berlin.
He saw some videos from MBX saying we had a lot of good talks in Berlin,
and this is one of them.
So we're really excited to be part of this
because it's not something we're asking grants for.
We're basically taking control and basically making sure
we have better DeFi liquidity together, working together,
not asking for extra resources, just working more efficiently
together.
So yeah, I'm really excited about that.
Amazing. extra users just working more efficiently together so yeah i'm really excited about that amazing thanks for being part of it it's been nice working with you guys and
but we have on stage also marco i'm not sure if you want to introduce you a little bit
introduce you a little bit?
Sure.
Yeah.
I go by Marco.
I work in TradFi
most of the time, but I help out
throughout the Cardano ecosystem.
So an advisor for
Moneta.
Kind of my main role here, but
help out across the ecosystem
for a bunch of different apps.
So some of you may
have seen me around yeah i believe that we have chatted on discord uh you actually have provided
a lot of good insight and feedback regarding our lending protocol so we really appreciate it and
We really appreciate it.
But we also have Tim from Finest.
Hello, thank you.
I'm Tim, yes, the founder of Bloxsign Asset Operations
and co-founder together with Raul, Matteo and Patrick Topla
of Finest Investments, where we are tokenizing real world assets.
And I'm very thankful that James invited me last minute to this space.
Very interesting.
And our Bloxsign asset operations, there we have a very strong partner,
which is NBX.
And Stig already was informing that we're going to talk about it later so thanks a lot for
inviting me no thanks to you i believe that uh james actually made a good choice uh telling you
about the space because uh this coalition also involves uh real world assets and finance plays an important role into this.
But let's start from the very beginning, because for the ones that don't know what is this
coalition, this idea and so on, James came to me in Berlin and said, Raul, there is this
idea that is being cooking with the NBX guys. And James, do you want to tell us a bit more
about the history, how it was born, this idea, and what's the goal of it?
Sure. So the idea really is born from something that Matthew and I had talked about quite a
while back. And the idea is to bring real capital and deploy it into DApps and help them
level up and look to do it in a traditional way where people are coming in, they're doing well
for themselves, let's say, within a particular protocol or team or DApp, and then look to
actually invest in others and help them also level up. In essence, when you raise the level, everybody rises with it.
So that's really the idea behind it.
The DeFi Coalition also has what's called the Plum and Legacy Fund.
For those who don't know, it is a for-profit arm of the W3I group, I'm going to call it.
The W3I group, I'm going to call it.
And it is meant to be able to interact with DApps
and different protocols that we're working with,
have some sort of partnership or relationship with.
And that's a part of it.
The other part of it is also to start initiatives like this
with the DeFi Coalition,
where we can actually take and group together
and deploy capital in a real way into DApps like we're doing with Fluid currently. And then also the last part of
it, which is very near and dear to Matt's heart and myself and Jillian and everybody else's
within USCMTM team, and I'm sure quite a few others, is that we want to be able to reach out
into not just crypto, but also into real world where we're thinking about where it is
that we can help others. This was key to Matt's, just the way he lived his life and his background
within his choice of faith and what have you. And this allows us to be able to then help and provide assistance to others.
So the idea is to help others, to help yourself,
to give in order to receive.
And that gift of giving is something
that is one of the most beautiful gifts
you can ever give in your life.
And if you receive something back from it
at the end of it, that's great.
So this is the attempt or the expectation here for the DeFi
coalition is to bring that into Cardano, deploy real capital into real dApps and help them to
level up and increase their overall DeFi activity. And we can get into that, I think. Raul, you can
probably explain that a lot better than I can, having to do with what fluid scenes since we started this i think just just two short
weeks ago no absolutely first of all i would say nice job guys because uh it's easy for for
companies to say uh yes we we like defy we love def and so on, but it's harder to actually use DeFi.
And here we are not talking about James Stig or Einstein using Fluid.
Here we are talking about NBX, NExchange, UDM, in this case, the plumbing legacy that is coming from a stablecoin branch and fluid tokens.
Also, it's not in the spaces, but it is already part of this deployment of liquidity. We have
WAVE capital. So also WAVE has deployed liquidity into fluid. And for the ones that don't know,
what happened was this. At the very beginning
of this month, I believe that it was the 6th, maybe, all of the companies that are currently
present in this Twitter space plus Wave Capital deployed USDM stablecoins into fluid. This was an initiative first of all to bootstrap the DeFi stable coins liquidity
in free tokens in this in this case but in general the DeFi coalition wants to
target different dApps in the ecosystem. But also this was this wants to be an example of companies deploying liquidity on Cardano using DeFi, using the opportunity that are currently in the ecosystem.
So the liquidity that has been provided by each company is currently earning APR because we got a very nice feedback from the community. I think that we shared
the KPIs with everyone in the group in private, but James yesterday, I think,
shared a nice infographic of what are the numbers. And as companies, we deployed in total,
We deployed in total, I believe, 100k USDM, close to it.
But the current TVL of Fluid Tokens in USDM is over 200k USDM.
And before everything started, we had less than 20k USDM.
So there has been a very nice growth organically,
and users are using the stablecoins that we have been deploying.
But the question is, for instance, NBX and Exchange, why you guys decided to interact with DeFi and to do something different,'s say from just being an exchange? Yeah well I think it's actually it's several kind of dimensions to that.
First of all it's like we are actually a co-issure of USDM so we are the kind of European European regulated entity that makes this compliant with the MECA in the EU.
So, and then it's a bit also to kind of put, what do you call it?
To put your mouth, I don't remember the wording, but basically leading by example.
Put your money where your mouth is, Dick.
That's it.
Yeah.
Thanks, thanks, thanks.
That was what I was looking for.
But basically by leading by example, so by showing that we trust this,
we can easily deploy liquidity there.
But it's also important to,
if it's going to be possible for users to actually use it,
it has to be liquidity there as well.
So we're kind of supporting and engaging with the community
by actually deploying liquidity into it.
And of course, and besides that, by actually deploying liquidity into it.
And of course, it's, and besides that,
and I said it was even more dimensions, right?
We're also supporting one of the pools where you can also borrow against tokenized gold,
where Tim, which is the company that Tim represents.
So it's basically, it's, so it's actually for us it makes
so it makes sense on so many different levels to to support this because we're supporting the
tokenization of real assets we are supporting uh the issuance of the stablecoin that we do together
with moneta and of course we're also um uh encouraging people to actually use the good defy uh services and
products that is out there so so so and obviously we're also making money on it so it's like yeah
yeah it's it's like a kinder egg plus one more yeah i can add to that. One of the cool things is we're really trying to be data-driven on this.
So when you build risk models, you usually have theories on this,
but we're deploying a pilot with this, and with that money,
we're also understanding how the liquidity is flowing.
So it helps us with that as well, and it gives us positive feedback loops
in terms of understanding
what are the user education needs, what are the UI needs.
We can offer feedback to Fluid.
We get feedback from the user also in terms of what types of guides they need.
And we're learning a lot from leading by example
and actually deploying it and using it ourselves.
I think that's also important, the data we're getting from all this.
Nice.
And, well, I see that the team has a question, or maybe he wants to say something.
No, no, I'd just like to jump in here.
I think it's a good spot for me as we talked about the internal
grow of USDM or of liquidity in the DeFi space. And my part is to get liquidity in from the
external part. So in turn, I mean that it's like we know the projects, we know the community. They push USDM as the homegrown stablecoin.
I'm here also because I think support your local products a lot,
like use fluid, mint some USDM.
Look what NBX is offering because everyone is here.
It's Cardano family.
And my companies, Bloxsign and Finest,
they like to try to get liquidity from the outside, out of Cardano.
So we have been in touch with different DeFi projects
and they have institutional people waiting there to,
hey, how can we actually interact with DeFi in a MECA compliant way, so in a financial regulations compliant way.
And there was the idea, I'm also a shareholder together with Raul and Matteo at Begin Wallet,
that someone asked us, hey, you are part of a wallet. We need a wallet who enables institutions to play with Cardano DeFi.
And so, it begins as a B2C wallet, so it should be used on mobile phones and not for institutional
demand. So we had Bloxsign, which is ESO certified and has a little bit of a bigger infrastructure
behind, but there is no custody solution in it.
And to have a custody solution, which is part of the regulations,
we teamed up with NBX and STIC was, yeah,
the first call was already open arms come in, let's talk a vision.
We found it and now we have a co-founded product which is the blockchain asset
operations platform which is kind of the front end like fireblocks or otila or copper there's a lot of
companies offering custody but the solutions don't offer DeFi access because of several obstacles.
And this we solved and we are live and we will present the first institutional client,
I think, in the latest three weeks.
So the work was done by Stig and his team.
So thanks a lot.
And for sure, with this BlockSign wallet
of the platform,
we like to support the minting of USDM
for external institutional clients.
So we like to get money to DeFi.
And the big problem,
and this is, I think,
not very present for a lot of people,
there is no regulated DeFi access to Cardano.
There is fireblocks.
Since years, you can already transfer ADA as an asset
and you can make the custody of it.
But this is not why we're here for.
It's very important that we have fireblo blocks because they are more like a marketplace. If a coin is listed, a token
is listed, all the big banks see it. But there's still no DeFi access. And that is
what Raoul and other DeFi projects needs. And to be able first to enter DeFi, you need liquidity, which is James is bringing with USDM.
So this is, I think, very important to see that there's an internal source of liquidity and external resource of liquidity.
And I just like to explain where's my point with Finest and Bloxign and the strategic partner of NBX.
I hope this helps to enlighten the discussion.
No, actually it does because it helps to understand what is the background
and what is the history behind the companies that are currently involved into this.
But probably a question that the audience has and
guys if you have any question feel free to write it in the comments uh you can even request to come
into the space and you can ask yourself but i believe that the question is what can I do with stablecoins?
James, Marco, maybe you want to answer this?
What people can actually do?
I'll let Marco handle it first, and then I'll add some color to it.
Sure.
There's a lot of things you can do with stablecoin. So I think the most obvious we're talking about here is for lending, right? So I have a stablecoin, can I earn yield? Ideally,
yield above the risk-free rate that you could earn sitting in a money market fund if you have
access to a money market fund, which is a really important point. Those in the States, you would.
Those offshore, you may not,
if you may not be able to earn effectively
the federal funds rate minus fees.
So I think one is it's a, you know,
I'm a bit biased since I sit in the States,
but it's a safe asset, US dollar backed asset
that you can earn a yield off of.
So I think that's, I would think of it as mainly using for de-risking.
So let's say you are a D-Gen and you have a massive meme coin portfolio.
If you need to de-risk that portfolio, you could go to ADA, but that's still a risky
asset, or you could go to stable points, which USDM is one.
And you want to be able there's
many different versions of stablecoins i don't think we have time to get into all of them but
this fiat backed stablecoin in my opinion is the safest so one what can you do with them use it as
de-risking earn yield on it you could also use it for leverage let's say you really you really think
it is um going to go up i have some i pot of ADA. I can use that ADA as collateral, borrow USDM against it,
swap that USDM into ADA, deposit more as collateral
and borrow against that new collateral
and loop that strategy to get leverage.
You can get decent leverage off of that.
Now it's a risky trade.
I'm not saying everyone should be doing that,
but it's a way of doing that.
And then other things I would start to think about is different types of protocols.
So if you're going to go broader crypto ecosystem, it's a great base asset for perps.
It's a great base asset for prediction markets.
You look at Polymarket, you look at Hyperliquid as the main Perps exchange
and the main prediction market exchange.
Yeah, so I guess I'll stop there.
That was a good starting point, I guess.
Yeah, and I think – no, so from the de-risking point of view,
let's say, for example, you hold a lot of, let's say, a particular meme token
and you think potentially it might go down in value.
You can then go ahead and move into or take out a loan, potentially against it with USDM,
and you're sitting in that USDM for a minute while maybe potentially your meme token might be going down in value.
The opposite is true when you're thinking about what I've done just recently with looping, for example,
like what Marco was talking about.
I've recently gone in and gone to MBX.
I had minted USDM through Moneta.
I went to MBX and then took the USDM into the USDM FGold pool, swapped into FGold.
I took that FGold and then brought it over to Fluid, and I provided that as an asset to borrow against.
I borrowed more USDM with that asset.
And I went into Create Alone, by the way, into pro mode for anybody that's looking into doing something like this.
And this is educational, by the way, not necessarily investing advice, but just something that I've done personally. And then I borrowed that USDM, and then I took that USDM, went back to MBX,
and I bought more or swapped more F-Gold,
brought it, and then supplied it again,
and then borrowed again.
I've done it three times now.
I did use some of my Nite token
that I had sitting at the MBX platform at the time
in order to provide a little bit more
so I could come out in...
When you come out of MBX,
you have to come out in even amounts. There are some... Stig could probably speak a little bit more so I could come out in, when you come out of MBX, you have to come out in even amounts. There's some, Stig could probably speak a little bit about that as far as the
technicality of that, but you have to come out in single, like hole number one, two, three F gold.
And then from there, I brought it in again, and then I looped again. My idea is, is that I'm
longing gold. I believe that gold will sit at a particular value or go up in the next three to six months.
And I'm going to sit in that for a period of time.
The beauty of it is, is when I use fluid, it was very simple to use.
It gave me very simple to understand explanations.
And the one nice thing about it is, is that with this particular coalition,
is that we're not just capital, We're not just deploying capital and actively managing
it. We're also coming in with professional mentorship, consultation, experience from
outside the space. Not saying that Raul and Mateo are not managing every part of it, but you can't
think of everything all at once. And it's always good to have help from your neighbors.
And so we are just very good neighbors and we love to come in and also be able to help
where it makes sense and give suggestions and ideas,
you know, in order to help level up the DAP as well,
which we've seen some nice advances
and there are some new things coming potentially
that are going to make it even better.
And we will grow with it.
So that's really
the idea there um and i'd love to hear uh sig's comments on that yeah so um first first i can
i can share some light on the um tim could definitely share more light on it but um but
regarding the the withdrawal of the f gold and and the F-Silver token,
which is tokenized gold and tokenized silver.
When it comes to kind of the transactions on the blockchain,
it's not possible to kind of fractionize the token.
So we have to transfer a whole token.
And for those who don't know,
one F-Gold token represents one gram of physical gold. and it's actually redeemable down to one gram of gold, which is actually, it sounds small, but that is actually quite huge like you can't move around the kind of fractions of the tokens on the blockchain, but of course on MBX you can buy fractions. So you can buy down to micrograms actually of gold. So you don't have to buy one on one gram, but you can buy fractions.
But what I actually wanted to say, and that's a bit about all the kind of, if you kind of look at who is part of this coalition and who's on the kind of scene now and what all of us represent, it's actually, it's all the pieces coming together for actually adoption and usage of Cardano blockchain and the ecosystem as a payroll solution for some of their seafarers that is obviously not living on the in Europe or countries where you have quite welllished financial institutions what all of us represent is is basically all the pieces that
we need to offer them a really good solution from everything from you have the the block sign the
custody solution where you can have a corporate governance custody it's custody it's it's um the
custody is by mbx but it's basically you can set up governing rules for all the different people in the company.
You can then run the payroll in the USDM with the solution that MBX have.
An app that we bought now that is called the Flip app where we own 50%, which is a mobile custodial app.
You can actually just send stable coins the ustm
by using phone number to anyone in the world you don't need to pre-fund it with ada we fixed that
with uh kind of gas station logic and um and then we're in that flip app we are actually then
building an interaction with fluid tokens such that the seafarers from these countries where you
don't even if they have a bank account they definitely don't have a I mean the possibility
to have an interest on on what they're saving you with fluid token you can then basically you can
offer that shipping company something that makes them more compatible as a employer with the ecosystem,
because they can provide more to the seafarers by lower or instant,
instant payroll, easy to send to family and friends for the,
for their employee and the employee can actually get yield on,
on the dollar on the savings.
So it's everything we have now is basically what we need to offer a solution.
So it makes sense that all of us are also the ones that is kind of starting this process
with the DeFi coalition.
I guess Tim wants to say something.
Yes, yes, Dick, thanks for bringing it in.
I think with the gold,
and I'm very happy that I always,
my statement was gold is the better stable coin.
So James, don't kill me now,
but I saw you follow my advice.
And yeah, why we just have one gram?
Why it's our business model is very easy.
Here in Germany, where the company is founded,
we have a very, very strong regulation.
And we avoid to sell securities
because there is a lot of licenses involved.
Let me make it a little bit shorter.
And these licenses also are very, very costly
and need a special build-up infrastructure from the company,
which is much bigger than we are.
So what do we do?
We do something very simple.
We buy gold with a partner in Munich called Pro Aurum GmbH and there we store the gold
and we can't take it out.
So if someone buys gold, he buys like a digital voucher.
So we send out the token, the F-gold token stands for digital voucher
for physically redeemable gold. So if you buy this voucher, you like to have a full gram of gold
because that's the smallest commercial traded amount of gold. So we went down to the smallest possible value of a token, which is one gram.
And we can't cut it anymore and give you 0.1 gram.
It's not possible because physically redeemable is only one gram.
So that's where we bound to regulations.
Nfinest is a company which has not an e-money license and not the licenses which NBX all has.
So we have to work very carefully as we are only not allowed to offer a product which is for investment purpose.
So we launch a voucher for gold.
What the people do with the voucher,
I don't know and I don't have to know this.
But James explains to you what's possible
with this small but very nice infrastructure DeFi part.
It's like a smaller, easy stablecoin
which can grow a little bit
because gold goes up and down,
but since a long, long time it goes up.
So I think it's a very important part.
And back in the days, I was always, which is not 100% correct,
but it's like how I see gold.
For me, it's the better stable coin because it grows by the time.
And yeah, now you all know our big problem is
how to fractionalize one gram of gold.
And there is Raoul and a lot of other people at Stix or Stix, NBX platform.
You can already trade fractionalized gold.
It's no problem.
And now we have to have the problems.
If you open a pool, a liquidity pool or something,
you might have the problem that you lose a pool, a liquidity pool or something, you might have the problem
that you lose one complete token of gold.
So the fractionalizing is something which we also like to, yeah, this is an obstacle
we like to go through it, but finest can't be involved there as we only sell the infrastructure.
We only make the streets.
We only make the streets.
The cars are not built by us.
The cars are not built by us.
The cars are built by especially fluid,
hand in hand with Moneta and USDM.
So just this is the explanation
how Stig told there's only one gram redeemable.
And I would love to have 0.1 gram redeemable.
But yes, now you know
why this is not possible.
Thanks, Tim, for the insight.
And for the ones
that have joined later
or right now,
so we are currently
discussing the DeFi Coalition,
this initiative where projects, companies are deploying liquidity in Cardano DeFi apps.
I will explain a little bit more what are the incentives and what are the markets right now, what you can do. thanks marco for the explanation using stables uh to the risk your portfolio
to take loans against your meme coins but even your gold your real world asset as we discussed
and as as tim was saying you can then use that gold go even to nbx trade it uh fractionalize it and and so on so there are
a lot of cool things that you currently can do with the use dm in as a stable coin for instance
and why i say use the m because currently there is liquidity deployed on fluid tokens uh today i saw a user that was complaining because
there was not enough usdcx liquidity to borrow on fluid however you can you guys can go to
fluid there is enough liquidity for usdm to borrow and if you really want usdcx you can swap i i believe that there is a pool use the m use the
cx so uh of course unless you want to swap five million dollars at that point you probably will
have issues for for swapping directly on the market but if you have a ucm already and you want to
market but if you have a usdm already and you want to try fluid tokens you can deposit on the markets
that are knight or mobile snack gold jagoon strike or fldt fluid tokens and every month basically we
are going to give around 3 000 usdm as rewards for the liquidity providers
and that's not including us of course just the community and in addition if you don't have a
usdm but you would like instead to try to borrow you can do it there is liquidity you can borrow against your gold your tokens your meme coins
snack has around 15k use dm as liquidity so there is a lot of utilization and that's interesting
because it means that there are strategies that maybe we don't know we are not aware but that's the cool thing about defy everyone
is uh free to use the the chain free to use the protocol if the smart contracts allows it and
if your collateral is good enough you can borrow if you don't want to borrow you can land if you
don't want to borrow or land there will be other
defy applications that you are going to be able to use and for instance this is an open question
guys to nbx to james also like as you say the fluid is the first app that the the coalition is deploying liquidity into
what other protocols or maybe areas you are exploring for next what's coming next for the
defy coalition so i can answer a part of that So we are expected to look into other lending and borrowing protocols.
I do believe that that's where the magic happens.
ETH summer came in 2022, I believe.
And the reason it happened is because of the catalyst of Aave and Compound.
They started incentivizing their own token through that protocol.
And they started giving out loans and bringing people in, supplying liquidity, things of that nature, incentivizing all that, and it took off.
They started competing against each other, and then, of course, Lido and others started jumping in, and there was a huge competition there.
And they were able to bring in a lot of TradFi liquidity into their market and get that rolling.
able to bring in a lot of TradFi liquidity into their market and get that rolling.
So we're not trying to recreate the wheel.
We're just doing something that it's already been proven to be done.
And it works rather well if Ethereum is a great example.
So besides that, the lending and borrowing protocols, we're also looking at DEX protocols.
There could be some specific isolated DAPs that we would work with, just
depending on what it is exactly that they would need as far as capital deployment goes.
So we're not, you know, there's no closed door to any particular opportunity.
I've always led with the idea that if you don't have the conversation and you don't
talk about something that you might want to do, you might not ever do it.
So for those who are thinking about it and have some sort of idea, love to be able to talk to you and be able to work out just exactly what it is you might think would help the market, help our particular DeFi ecosystem.
So that'll include DEXs incentivizing there.
So that's a small portion of it.
I think the sky's the limit on what we can do.
The key component here is that when we bring in,
for the coalition,
understand that each one of these individual companies
are still individual companies.
We're not putting our pooled money together
or ADA together or USDM together
and then deploying it into a
particular DAP or doing it individually, but in a coordinated way. That is also generating a yield
or revenue from that and it's supporting the DAP at the same time, which is a beautiful thing when
you think about it. And it's also making the user's experience a lot better. So we've got a lot more
So we've got a lot more people being able to borrow USDM.
people being able to borrow USDM. There's liquidity there in order to get that done.
There's liquidity there in order to get that done.
So that part is happening.
So the other part that Roland mentioned having to do with USDCX and USDM,
there is a huge pool right now sitting over at SundaySwap that works in a very unique way.
And I can't explain it in detail because I was told it once and I'm not going to be able to do it verbatim. However, the cost and slippage there are extraordinarily low.
And you can move out of USDCX into USDM in order to be able to provide that into particular
depth where there is liquidity, let's say, for example.
So if you want to do that and you can use the opposite as well. So, you know, we're creating opportunity
and choice and doing it in a space that we love to operate in. And then the third part of this
leg is of the stool is that taking that yield and reinvesting back into our own market. A lot of
times in the past,
and I've experienced this quite a bit
with different companies that I've worked with here in Cardano,
that the opportunity here is not that good.
And so they end up moving their liquidity,
anything they're making in profit,
and they move it into Ethereum or into Solana
or, you know, name the blockchain.
Or they just switch it out to fiat and exit one of the two. What I'd love to see is
more of a recycle back into our market and see it grow the market that we live and work in,
in order to then benefit everybody. Because it actually benefits everyone in a very cyclical
manner. And those then new users that come in will see much greater opportunities. Somebody
just posted today like, hey, heard, come into Cardano DeFi. Heard, you know, come in will see much greater opportunities. Somebody just posted today like,
hey, heard, come into Cardano DeFi. Heard, you know, come in and get a loan. And there's only,
you know, 4,337 of, you know, some particular token in order to be able to in liquidity there,
right? So do we want that or do we want to increase that? My friends that I have in traditional
finance that have been trading for, I don't know, 25, 30 years now, I told them, hey, why don't you come over here and try this market?
And they looked into it.
They saw it and said, man, you know what?
I need to be able to trade at least $10,000 to $20,000 in a position or I'm just not going to waste my time with it.
So what we've done is we kind of tended to close off the opportunity for larger investors to come in.
It's not to say that they're going to come in and then take advantage of smaller investors. No,
they're coming in and adding liquidity into a market, which then does what? It reduces the
buy and the sell. And what that mean is in between, right? So that number in between is very
close between the buy and sell.
Liquidity is very high and you can move larger and larger size within our market.
That is the point of what I want here.
And it's something that I've wanted for the last six years I've been here.
And I'm just finally starting to see it now.
And we really want to expand this to the next level.
Einstein, please.
Yeah, I just want to
first add to this. Like, it's been
really good collaboration with
Fluid. We learn a lot from this.
When it comes to the coalition
as a whole,
we are not a DAO.
We're not a membership group,
we're a capital coordination layer.
So we're open for anything that fits in the puzzle
to lift the DeFi ecosystem of Cardano as a whole.
We now have all of the pieces, like what Stig was talking about.
We have the custodial solution.
So what I would like to see and my open invitation is I would like to see organizations, membership-based
organizations, the institutional side also try to look at this because we really can kick start and
help grow DeFi when we coordinate like this and the capital is better put to use we we get lower
lending rates we can then borrow from that and have real assets that generate yields to create
like economic engines of growth so yeah i i really would like to extend that as an open invitation
as well we're we don't have a membership fee.
What we only require is that you work data-driven,
you put your money where your mouth is,
and all of us who are part of it contributes together on it.
I appreciate it.
And I think that this is a very good example for entities.
And I'm not talking only about Cardano entities in general,
to not just talk about DeFi, but try it.
Because sometimes there is this distance between even builders. I have spoken with some of the best builders,
but that they can create amazing protocols,
amazing smart contracts, but they don't use DeFi.
And this is sometimes an issue because you
are making a protocol without knowing what is the current experience
and what the user expects.
So, and this happened to me, I'm saying it because it happened to me.
Sometimes I think about the best technical solution and that's the best approach from
the Oracle level on the Oracle level, on the landing level, and so on.
However, the end user wants one button that clicks and does what he wants.
He doesn't need 10 buttons that are hard to understand what is behind, and so on.
what is behind and so on so this is really a push for everyone to not just talk about cardano on
twitter but to really use it experiment with it study the risk and based on that make a small test
there are even test nets guys so if you want to try defy on testnet first because you want to feel
safer you can do it but try to educate watch tutorials i i believe that there is a lot of
educational content currently and regarding this my question for stick would be okay
this my question for stick would be okay I I will borrow uh against my gold use the M then I will
pay back and I will go to NBX what can I do with my use the M or gold on MBX,
we have three trading pairs with gold on MBX.
So you can trade it against Euro, Norwegian Kroner
or obviously USDM.
But you can also, of course, you can buy gold and silver
also on MBXx the platform um and you
can also set up uh um dca into into gold and silver so you can for instance set up uh buy for
i don't know one one euro or 50 cent or 10 euros every day
or every week or every month.
So you can basically set up schedules buying.
So it's frequent saving.
And you can also then do it in fractions.
So you don't have to, so on the platform,
you can buy in fractions, but of course,
when you withdraw, you have to withdraw whole tokens yeah um yeah same with uh with usd and and and we also support uh withdrawals
uh you can obviously you can when you have usdm you can you can swap it or you can burn it back to USD, no cost.
So it's minting and burning, going from USD to USD or from USD to USD.
It's one-to-one.
There's absolutely no cost.
And you can withdraw it to the bank account really anywhere in the world.
There will be some other options,
and I want to double tap a little bit
on the idea of the flip app and what's there,
and especially with those who would be receiving payroll,
holding it in the flip app
and choosing to hold it in stablecoin,
one, to ensure against the fiat maybe that they're being paid,
whether or not it has a deflationary effect of the fiat.
Sometimes, depending on where you live, Peso, for example, in Venezuela, has a little bit of a problem there.
And so they move into USDC over there utilizing Lemon.
This is something that's already being done.
And they then can hedge against downside and keep the value of their product.
At the same time, they could also generate a yield.
When you create that layer then and connects to what Fluid is doing
and Fluid being able to provide that as a supplied asset,
which then those who toggle over are then supplying into the Fluid app,
in essence, and allows for those who are borrowing to borrow that against an APR, right?
Annual percentage rate.
That then allows those who hold USDM
sitting in the Flip app to generate a yield.
We are now creating a beautiful loop
that is including crypto,
which in most cases,
those who are utilizing it on the front end
and just getting paid and holding it there
and just making sure it stays of value and might even get a yield from it are just doing that.
They're not worried about crypto.
There might be breadcrumbs later that allow people to think about, hey, have you tried this or thought about this?
And then we include new users coming into Fluid. There's just a beautiful fluid, I'm going to use fluid, fluid cycle there that happens when you start to access real world money, real world sectors of the economy, having to do with payroll and what have you, and cycling that into a decentralized dApp like fluid, providing that APR or yield that you can give to those users over there, right? So we're now then creating real world between there and crypto and using Cardano as the
backbone, which is exactly what I want to happen here and which will increase the treasury
for Cardano over a period of time because there'll be transactions on chain and that
will increase.
That is one of the key components here for that.
That is one of the key components here for that.
I can also jump in here because what we developed now with your partner,
Matteo, and together with Stick and James, we already reached out.
So me as a person to Pro Aurum, which is one of the biggest gold reseller here in Germany.
gold reseller here in Germany and they have lots of gold in stock from their own clients
and from their own stock. So imagine we or the DeFi system itself offers a yield which is very easily, you can use it very easily in a very convenient way.
So if we have the product, we will reach out again to Pro Aurum and say,
guys, we have a product for you.
You get 1.5 or 2% on your own gold. know this is liquidity liquidity which is super huge and would i think would bring fluid to the
really number one platform in cardano easily because it's a really huge company and we could
scale this product so i think gold usdm nbx and, we have a really big possibility to bring a product to the real world market
where people are who are trading gold, but they love what we do and how we do it.
Because you don't find easily banks where you can deposit your gold and get 1% or 2%.
That's not possible.
If you do this, you always have paper gold.
But paper gold is bullshit in my eyes.
We only, when we talk about gold, it's always physically back gold.
So it's not the paper gold people usually use to trade.
It's much more safe.
And to scale this, this will be amazing.
So this is my personal big goal in this
coalition, that I'm able
to market this product we developed
to really big players.
And let's just,
I'm just going to add a little bit
more to that.
Like you said,
all of this is
absolutely interesting and it brings
real utility for people out there.
And the underlying technology is, as you say, it's blockchain, it's Cardano.
But basically what we're building now with the FlipBap, with Fluid, basically the interaction from FlipBap to Fluid, to Clicks,
too fluid, too quicks, you're in yield getting your earning
or you can even borrow if you have an asset
that you can put in as collateral.
And then also, it's no secret, but MBX,
we have been working on Fiat Off-Ramp
with a global remittance service
that has almost like 500,000 localizations around the world.
And if you look at one of the areas
where we have specifically been discussing payroll services,
you're looking at the Philippines
and there is like, you basically have them,
there you have about 22,000
or this remittance company has about 22,000 offices.
this remittance company has about 22 000 uh offices so this is then you're then you're basically
giving these seafarers an opportunity to have an have an app where you can receive your payroll
you can immediately put it into into yield and you're basically getting the yield as you go
you don't have to wait till the end of the year you're basically getting the yield as you go you don't have to wait till end of the
year you're basically taking the yield with you when you when you withdraw when you withdraw your
liquidity and you can easily with the flip app just send it to your wife that when you're in
Mexico at port in Mexico you can send it to your wife back in the Philippines she goes to the flip app she she logs in she goes to that remittance
agency and she basically takes out the cash and you have you have basically gone from stablecoin
to cash within five minutes so it's it's really a super smooth um fast ecosystem that we're building here so amazing so to everyone listening to us you can
supply usdm on fluid or borrow use the m of fluid against your tokens or gold then you can go
if you don't have gold you can go to finest create an account and buy an asset a real world asset on cardano that you can redeem for real
physical gold then if you want to use it to trade you can go to nbx create an account over there
it's an exchange so you can trade and use your goal to trade with other assets and
goal to trade with other assets and you can build your own strategy and then use defy on cardano
as james was saying the more you use cardano as blockchain the more actually you are making the
chain sustainable and since we are at the one hour mark i would say let's do a round table of
one hour mark I would say let's do a round table of last words let's say I
think I believe that if anyone wants to get involved as the five protocol can
reach out to James or even to us we can connect and any last word that you guys
Any last words that you guys want to add?
want to add
Just take you one.
Thanks for having me.
Now, thanks a lot, especially James and Raul.
I'm always following your educational posts.
Please don't stop them because that made my brain going more into defy so thanks a lot for this and
i think i have to say one time thanks to you guys no it's been an amazing space uh it's been recorded
so feel free to share it to the ones that were not able to attend and yeah let's talk on twitter on telegram or on discord where we are connected
bye everyone thanks for all appreciate it
thank you Thank you.
