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DeFi #onPolygon💥MEGA Space
Recorded: June 7, 2023 Duration: 1:59:31Space Recording
Full Transcription
Cool.
Cool.
I think let's wait for like a couple of minutes and then we can start.
Maybe in the meantime, yeah, I think let's wait for like a couple of minutes.
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I think let's wait for like a couple of minutes.
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I think let's wait for like a couple of minutes.
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Yeah.
Hello, hello, my powerful and pretty purple people.
Hey, Rock.
Hey, there.
Good to see you on the other side, Rock.
What's that?
Good to see you on the other side.
So far, you've been hosting a lot of spaces.
Yeah.
Yep, I think we can start.
So, yep, hello, everyone.
Welcome.
This is one of the first DeFi mega spaces.
Now we will be doing on Polygon, I think, on a week-to-week basis.
I think it's a big moment if you talk about the whole, of course, the Ethereum ecosystem, but yeah, of course, the whole crypto ecosystem as well.
That right now we have the first working ZK roller, which is fully trustless, which is the most secure chain that is live on prod right now.
But I think I've always talked about this, that, of course, you can make the best infra, but I think it's more about the people who use the infra, the developers who pay the users who use the network.
So, yeah, very excited to have you guys today.
I think we'll cover a bunch of topics today, but yeah, I think we can start quickly with the people who are speaker right now to tell us more about what these guys are building.
Yep, I think we can start with Relative.
Yeah, sure. Thanks. Thanks, Asif. Happy to be here.
So with Relative, you know, we're building a bunch of applications.
We're actually building four applications across SocialFi, DeFi, and GameFi.
We have one application that's already live and open beta.
It's a wagering dApp that allows you to wager on the relative value of two assets.
But we also have a perpetual product coming out soon.
And that sort of takes the same concept of relative value and pair trading and sort of allows you to, you know, speculate on the relative value of assets, but with leverage.
Awesome. Awesome.
Yep, I think next, I think probably if TA Tech's your life, you can do it and share like a book intro.
And then followed by API 3.
Yeah, sure. Hey, great to be here.
Love the Megaspace idea.
We are at DADx.
We are building a perpetual futures protocol, fully decentralized, offering institutional-grade perps.
We are currently on testnet and plan to go live very soon.
And then iterate on and add classical options to our offering.
Yeah, loving the evolution of the ecosystem here.
Loving to see all the protocols up here.
I'm looking forward to a great space.
Hey, guys.
Can you guys hear me?
Yep, go ahead.
Sure.
Yeah, so I'm from API 3.
We are building an Oracle solution on Polygon and Polygon ZK EVM.
We were one of the first oracles to deploy on ZK EVM.
And we have seen a great number of users on ZK EVM that have approached us and are building great products, many of whom are in this call.
So, looking forward to talking with all of you.
Yeah, great to see API 3 as one of the trailblazers on Polygon ZK EVM.
I think that's something important and that I think is worth noting on this space is that the people who come first are, I think, you know, we should have a certain amount of appreciation and respect for.
Because when you come to ZK EVM first, it shows you're a true believer.
You're not just coming once, you know, all the liquidity and the users and the volume starts flowing in.
And you're actually, you know, an early adopter and a true believer.
Yep, I think really appreciate that sentiment.
And I think, Rob, just being this idea about Polygon always, that it's because we do a lot of BD, that is quite saturated.
But I think if you think about ZK EVM, it's one of the unexplored treasures, almost, you can say.
Because you have the best tech right now, you have instant finality on the sequencer layer.
So, I think it's almost one of the best chains, if you think about it.
So, now you merge the best BD in the whole crypto space with the best tech.
And yeah, that is pretty much Polygon ZK EVM.
That's a dangerous combination.
I think they have the...
Yep, yep.
I think we have one more OG protocol here, Kyber.
So, we'd love to hear their thoughts as well.
Sure, Asif.
Hey, guys, it's Imran here.
I'm the head of marketing of KyberSwap.
Very happy to be here.
Thanks for inviting us.
We're very happy to be in a partner with Polygon for quite a while now.
We continue to be a major DAX and aggregator.
Polygon's all about blockchains for mass adoption.
KyberSwap is aiming to become the DAX for mass adoption.
We just released our Kyber AI, which is an AI-driven on-chain trading tool for all traders, whether you're newbies or whether you're DGENs, to get alpha before it happens.
On the topic of ZK EVM, very happy to see the growth.
It's definitely on our radar as well.
And very happy to be part of this space.
Thanks, guys.
Hey, is it Piyush from Polytrade?
That's right, sir.
Hey, hey, hey, Piyush.
Yeah, tell us more about Polytrade.
I think you guys are also pushing out a lot of updates on the product side.
You're making major changes.
I was just hearing from the community.
So, we'd love to know more.
Thanks, Asif.
So, I think we are one of the old projects, I would say, comparatively.
You know, Web3 moves very fast.
We did our mainnet last year in February.
And since then, you know, Web3 is a constant learning exercise.
So, we are an RWA player.
We are one of the most mature RWA players on Polygon today.
And we understand that, you know, with the time and with the current market situations where centralization is constantly getting bashing,
it's evident that most of the liquidity and the users will move to DeFi and decentralization will continue getting this team.
With the same thought and with the same approach, we launched our marketplace.
This is the first RWA marketplace ever launched where any tokenized asset would be available for secondary liquidity.
We did our beta launch a couple of weeks back with the feedbacks and with more additions to the product.
We are now coming out with final product next week.
We already have a few hundred thousand dollars committed from a couple of institutions to buy assets from the marketplace.
So, we are looking to go big time into this.
And Asif, this is something which nobody knows.
It's just being finalized today.
We are opening one of the pools on ZK EVM with one of the existing ZK EVM players on Polygon.
So, this will be our foray in ZK EVM.
And that would be, I guess, a new experience for all of us as well.
But more to talk about it when we discuss.
Awesome. Awesome.
I think Lina as well, you guys have a bunch of products.
Would love to know more about your set of products.
Hey, I think you're on mute.
We can't hear you.
Sorry.
I'm audible now?
Yep.
Yep.
Go ahead.
Yeah.
So, I was saying, yeah.
Let me start from the beginning.
So, telling you guys about Plenar Finance.
Plenar Finance is one of the first mobile wallet to use account abstraction technology.
And using this technology, we are able to provide our users a centralized application
like user experience when they interact with other Web3 apps.
So, we are able to allow them to pay the transaction fee in any token they have.
And also patch a lot of transactions together.
So, what that means is, let's say, if a user is providing liquidity on Quickswap from,
let's say, Bitcoin, right?
And it takes close to 627 transactions if they want to provide liquidity to a stablecoin pool.
Like USDC, USDT.
Our application, it gets done in one single tap.
And users are able to pay their transaction fee in the token that they're using.
So, they get a similar user experience like Binance.
And till now, it's one of the most efficient account abstraction wallet out there.
And, like, we have close to 150,000 users now.
And on Polygon, our users did, I think, close to 3.2 million transactions in less than a month.
Well, 3.2 million is a lot, to be honest.
And I think that's almost, like, number of transactions to which a lot of protocols,
even book protocols will fall shy off.
So, I think that's almost surprising.
Great to know that.
But I think speaking more about one of the protocols, which I'm personally very fond of,
would be, of course, Quickswap and QuickPurps.
And I've been checking the metrics, like, every day almost, on their new offering, which is QuickPurps.
And whether you talk open interest, whether you talk about volumes, fees, it's been growing week over week.
And I know with ZKABM, when the team went live, there were some challenges because Nocisaafe wasn't live.
And some of the other infra that was needed was not live.
But still, the team went live, grinded through it.
And, of course, right now, most of the core infra is, like, I would love to hear from Rock.
How has the whole journey been?
And I think it's just getting started, to be honest.
Yeah, we actually, Quickswap, with Nocisaafe not being on ZKABM early on,
we actually launched Nocisaafe for the entire ecosystem.
But, yeah, it's been a great journey.
We're really happy to be helping Trailblaze, ZKABM.
It's something we believe very strongly in.
We're focusing most of our resources now on ZKABM.
We're still, of course, going to focus a lot on POS.
That's where, you know, we're the largest decks for almost three years now.
And we're the first, I think, the first decks on POS to get to a million in TVL.
And I think we're the second decks, or the second application on POS to get to one billion TVL and one billion volume.
I think, I believe Aave beat us maybe by a couple weeks on the one billion mark on POS.
But, yeah, now on Polygon ZKABM, which I call the greatest scaling technology on the planet, hands down.
We currently hold the number one, number two, and number three spots for dApps on ZKABM with QuickSwap at about 9 million TVL,
QuickPerps at 6.7 million TVL,
and Gamma, our V3 Liquidity Management, at, I think, around 4 million in TVL.
So, those are the top three applications on ZKABM currently.
I think we hold, according to DeFi Llama, if you want to Google DeFi Llama Polygon ZKABM,
I think we hold about 82% of the entire TVL of the chain at the moment.
And that's, I mean, not by accident.
That's because we, you know, launched right away.
We were the first decks to launch.
We were the first to start doing liquidity farming.
I think right now we're pumping, I think, around a quarter million dollars a month into liquidity farming.
And we've got, obviously, compelling products that are proven and trusted.
And I think, I guess the most interesting part to me is, you know, I love our V3 and I love our Gamma Liquidity Management,
but I think the quick purposes is something that's really exciting to me.
I've been playing with it a lot.
And I think it's, so, like, when it comes to product market fit in the industry,
I would say right now in DeFi that the two strongest product market fits are V3, you know, AMMs, you know, like Uniswap.
But in Quickswap, that's the cornerstone, that's the, like, the foundational, you know, if you're building a house,
the first block you put down, not even the block, the first, the foundation is the V3, right?
It is the AMM.
But the next best product market fits in DeFi, I would probably say, is the GMX model,
which is what QuickPurps is, essentially.
It's not exactly, but very similar.
And I think that's, you know, we've seen that that was able to single-handedly between that
and then little assistance from the allure of the airdrop for Arbitrum.
But GMX was able to single-handedly bring Arbitrum to fame.
And so we're trying to recreate that now again for Polygon.
We would have launched it on POS, except for that, you know, ZKVM became ready,
which was exciting, and we made the decision to focus on ZKVM,
which is much better for the GMX model, actually, than POS for a variety of reasons.
We may still launch it on POS at some point, but right now we're focused on ZKVM,
and I think everybody else should be, too.
This is the future.
Yep, I think everyone here shares that sentiment, Poshwar.
And I think one of the Oracle, the Oracle provider for QuickPurps is API3,
who is also with us right now.
So we'd love to know more about how things have been on ZKVM for you as well.
Yeah, it's been quite a journey, actually.
I remember when we arrived on day one, I was surprised to see that there were already node providers available,
and the infrastructure to host your own node was also readily available,
which was quite surprising for such a new technology that, you know, that on day one, everything was readily available.
And so it didn't take us long to actually set up our infrastructure.
It took us like two or three days, and we were ready to go.
And then as soon as we started offering an Oracle, we got inbounds from many projects, one of them being QuickPurps.
And they had a specific requirement because they are launching a perpetual DAP.
And so for a perpetual DAP, you need low deviation thresholds, you need to be able to update as frequently as possible.
And so we sort of started exploring how much it would cost in terms of gas and how expensive it would be.
Initially, the cost on ZKVM, when you were doing our analysis, turned out to be pretty high.
Like each update costed like $3.
But it's so surprising now that the cost of an update is now sub $0.1.
So it costs less than $0.10 to do an Oracle update on ZKVM, which means that if you go on the API 3 market right now,
you can spin up your own data feed for less than $100 a month.
And that enables many protocols and many users to, you know, build on top of API 3
or build applications that would require some exotic type of data without spending too much money.
And I think DeFi applications like QuickPurps will also benefit a lot from this reduced cost,
especially when users are opening and closing trades.
Like the difference between spending $2 in opening a trade and spending $0.1 is huge for like any user that's just dealing with like $500 or $1,000.
So I'm sure that the volume is going to increase over time and looking forward to it.
Yeah.
And then on the note of that, it's pretty crazy to see how fast the gas costs have been coming down.
And I'm sure if you've used ZKVM, you're noticing it in real time.
But when we were first, when we first launched QuickPurps a couple of weeks ago, we, well, actually we launched a little before that in Stealth.
And we announced it on only to the All Roads Lead to Polygon Twitter spaces exclusively.
So people didn't know that it was live.
It wasn't on our website and we were giving a thousand percent APY just to All Roads Lead to Polygon Twitter spacers.
But when we first launched it and so to open a position or to add liquidity to the QLP index,
it was anywhere from like $8 or $9 up to $20.
And now it's down to about $1.
So we've come down by, you know, quite a bit, you know, 10X maybe or more, which is really incredible to see.
And it's going to continue to drop.
I think now it depends on the day.
It's going up and it's kind of going back and forth.
But we are now down to about the cost of Arbitrum.
And on many days actually we're cheaper than Arbitrum.
And we will continue to get cheaper than Arbitrum and they will continue to get more expensive generally.
So that's the greatest thing about ZKVM is that it gets cheaper the more people use it,
which is the complete opposite of what we're used to in DeFi, right, in blockchains.
Typically in blockchains, the more people use it, the worse it gets, the more crowded, the more congested,
the higher the fees, the slower, etc.
But with ZKVM, it gets faster, it gets stronger, it gets cheaper, it gets better.
Yep, it's actually, I mean, we are so accustomed to chains that if there are more users,
there are more transactions, it becomes more costlier.
It's almost as if you take some time to realize that, okay, now it's different.
The more transactions happen, the more the system can scale.
So, but yeah, I think market right now is also realizing that.
I think it took like maybe three, four weeks for market to end users to catch on to that fact.
But I think now people are realizing that.
And I think as Asher and Brock stated, it's just going to go lower and lower.
Yep.
So, I think next step would love to understand from Himalayan as well.
Because these guys are building derivative protocol, of course, but the positioning, the product is way better than what Quick Purps is, what DATX is, what Relative is.
Yep.
Go ahead.
Hello, everyone.
Nitin from Himalayan.
So, thanks Asher for the introduction.
So, we are building an adaptable and fluid ecosystem for decentralized structured products.
And we want to like empower everyone with tools to effectively manage risk and rewards.
So, right now, you know, we see a lot of volatility in the market.
So, that's where, you know, options and derivatives and structured products get in.
So, excited to be here.
We're already in closed beta and we've already, you know, launched a closed beta on ZK EVM as well.
And similar to what, you know, Rok was saying earlier that these guys, you know, they hosted like, you know, NOSAs on ZK EVM.
When we started working on it, you know, we needed gamma and a few other protocols.
And it took us like no time to like, you know, deploy gamma on ZK EVM as well.
So, definitely, you know, this chain and this technology looks much more stable.
And it doesn't look like, you know, it was launched like two months back.
So, pretty excited about it.
Ash promotion.
Huge fan of Himalayan, by the way.
Yep, for sure.
It's literally, it will literally scale.
But anyways, I think, Tiyush, you earlier spoke about your next products.
Would love to hear more details about those as well.
Sure, sure, Asif.
So, it's so great to hear, you know, so many interesting products are coming up.
And, you know, I know so many group, you know, protocols here in Himalaya.
Hi, Nitin.
Nice to hear from you, man.
So, I can see Saurabh and many people joining who are actually very closely associated with Polytrade and its growth.
And Asif, you have seen us since day one, right?
RWAs or the real world assets have definitely picked up a lot of steam in recent months.
And necessarily so, because, you know, when we talk about these yields, they do not come out of thin air, right?
At the end of the day, a tangible asset of something which you can touch and feel, something which you deal with on a daily basis, is something which provides these yields to you.
And, you know, all recent interactions with large institutions and, you know, Asif, I was talking to Colin and all the BD team on the institutional side.
And it necessarily makes sense for all large institutions from the Web2 world to start adopting blockchain or Web3, particularly when it comes to RWA.
Because RWA is what they understand.
RWA is what they have been doing all their life.
So, to bring blockchain or Web3 on RWA is something which is easy for them, is something which is imperative for them.
So, and, you know, again and again, we have been realizing that Polytrade kind of protocols or RWA places are not meant for retail.
They are a very institutional play when it comes to generating liquidity, when it comes to generating assets, it is always have been institutional play.
And to make it more retail, to make it more democratized, that's where, you know, I was talking about the RWA marketplace.
So, today this marketplace is anybody's playground.
Anybody can just come, connect their wallet, start purchasing assets as per their own risks and appetites.
So, what we did in the beta version, we put one of our own purchased invoices, which was around $20,000 odd worth.
We fractionalized it and put it on the marketplace.
And like within 24 hours, it was all gone.
So, one thing which was very exciting to see that people are happy to not lock in their money into longer term pools,
where they do not know the future of it, whether they will be able to claim their money back,
whether something happens to their smart contracts.
All those risks are there when they put money into a protocol.
However, buying these assets, they are simply purchasing assets like an OpenSea for RWAs.
So, that's what RWA marketplace is.
We are, as I said, you know, last 15-20 days, we have got so much traction with almost every RWA institution out here in Web3,
that all of us are committing liquidity to us, and most of them are committing to come on the marketplace.
So, this not only provides us secondary liquidity to ramp up our operations,
it also takes our horizon away from just being an invoice financing business,
but to focus on RWA narrative as a whole.
So, we are now talking to a couple of protocols who are tokenizing real estate.
We are now talking to a couple of protocols who are doing T-bills.
And, you know, some crazy ideas also floating in the market.
One of the things which Himalaya protocol is also discussing with us,
that we can work together on the marketplace side.
So, the point is that, you know, there are so many things which can happen.
We are looking forward to these updates and challenges in the coming months.
But I think it's also good, because of these aims, we'll be able to speak to the larger audience,
and we'll be able to learn also from, you know, what people's feedbacks are,
and, you know, exactly what they want from this ecosystem.
Awesome. And I think, Asif, I briefly touched base upon this,
that we should be in two weeks' time, probably launching one of our pools on ZKEVM.
Awesome. Awesome.
I think Hamza has some.
Hamza raised his hand, so go ahead.
Yeah, thank you, Hushly.
Thank you for everyone joining, and I see Rozin also from Azuro.
Thank you, sir, for joining in.
And just one thing, I just wanted to chime in here.
I think someone in the chats was mentioning this, especially for Rock and myself,
that, you know, how can we explain ZKEVM in a simpler term?
So, how I like to think about it from a non-technical point of view.
And also, just one thing, Asif, if we can also get more people on the stage,
and I think folks who have, like, you know, will like to shuffle people a bit on the speaker panel as well,
so that, you know, more people, like I see Eon from Clobber is also here.
And I see a couple other, I see Peter, sir, from Circle.
Peter Schroeder, the Circle has been a strong supporter of Polygon since, like, forever, practically, from Matic days.
So, thank you for joining, and Asif, if we can also, you know, make sure that people, you know, join also on the speaker panel as well.
And we can, you know, maybe give other people a chance as well.
Yeah, so those who have, I think we have spoken, Hamza, we can drop down.
Yeah, that would be really appreciated.
Yeah, yeah, thank you, thank you so much.
Yeah, so ZKVM, ZK rollups, right, like, so ZK rollups, so I think we are now at this stage of the industry
where we are more aware of, you know, what rollups are.
And I think rollups, basically the whole job of rollups are to share security from Ethereum,
but, you know, offset the execution on another chain.
So, basically what it means is, like, you know, you are taking security from a very highly secure L1,
but, you know, doing the computation somewhere else.
And now, once you do the computation, so, for example, like, you know, quick perps, quick,
all the perps, gas transactions, all the trading, and all those things happen on L2.
But the proof is put on L1.
Proof means when you, there are multiple ways to put a proof,
but the more commonplace ones are, obviously, you know, optimistic rollups,
and optimistic, which is validity, sorry, fraud proofs,
and, you know, there is ZK rollup, which is validity proofs.
But the interesting thing with ZKVM, especially with Polygon,
is that we have the fastest and most efficient prover in the whole industry,
which is Plonky2.
And this is, like, not me saying it, you can check any journal,
you can check any research paper out there,
comparing rollups and comparing their efficiencies.
And you can see clearly that, you know, Plonky2 is the, by far,
the most efficient and most, like, the fastest rollup out there,
sorry, prover out there.
Now, what we have did is that because it is cheaper and far quicker in terms of proving,
although it is, like, there are some inefficiencies in terms of, like, you know,
size, in terms of time, sorry, not time, the machine size and everything.
But over time, you know, those things, we are doing Plonky3,
and that should be out very soon.
Maybe I should not talk too much about it.
Yeah.
I hadn't even heard that.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, not this time.
Not this time.
So, so, yeah, so there will be a lot of, like, you know,
upgrades happening on the, on the...
But Hamza, you're so handsome.
Tell us a little more.
No, no, no, sir, not this time.
I'll get a DM, I'll get, I'll get DM from people who I don't want.
I said DMs for.
uh so so yeah so so in in brief like you know uh if you if you go to crypto fees uh which is a very
reputed uh third party um third party fees uh statistic website you can see that you know
polygon zkvm is now i think number one or number two with with hardly any traction compared to the
optimistic rollups and because because uh the tech is so good uh fundamentally uh and yeah can you
explain that more what is that exactly so if you go so like uh if you go to crypto fees dot info i'm
just like opening it up on my laptop right now uh crypto fees dot info they have they uh they are one
of the better uh you know third party they have l2 fees dot info uh which is basically comparing
all the layer twos layer twos in terms of uh you know uh swapping each sending each uh swapping
token fees compared uh comparing fees uh and uh you know polygon zkvm is uh one or two of uh top one
or top two in terms of you know uh gas fees a lowest number of gas fees so that is the that is like
exponential so the more number of users come in um the lesser the gas becomes it's as simple
it's as simple as that um yeah i hope i hope this uh this this helps
can you just make sure that mihailo and jd top up the sequencer gas wallet
um you know yeah very funny yeah uh so that uh i know why you're saying that uh so that i did
convey what happened today with uh i think arbitrum but i be honest so yeah i i don't want to comment
anything on it but yes there have been some some issues i think uh with arbitrum uh today morning i
think uh but yeah uh does anyone else have more info on that
oh their sequencer went down because they didn't drop up the gas wall
okay interesting it's a bear market out there it's fine uh but uh but yeah i think rosin is also up
here i i'm big big big fan of uh azuro to be honest i uh i i make lunch money betting on football teams
um and uh because it's a bear market i don't want to sell anything and uh that's how i i last like
i was betting on manchester city um because i secondly i hate my united uh firstly and uh also
because like i think it's a better team so that was helpful but uh rosin welcome and uh would love to
uh hear more about azuro and how you guys are you know been a while at polygon now
yeah absolutely uh and uh yeah i love your love your betting hamza but if you keep winning i don't
know like lps we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna send your you know telegram handle to some lps mate
um so uh yeah uh thanks for having me here and actually it's very it's very cool for me to kind
of like hear the the conversation about about zk and uh as we are live on uh on on pos for for a
couple of months now so azuro we are building the the betting layer for for web tree and i'd say
uh for for about two months now we are at mbp stage uh which means we are really disrupting um
both within within the the crypto space like the perception of what is possible with sports betting
uh on chain um uh basically people can now access a really wide range of markets all of those are liquid
um main you know my biggest events uh get bets of like ten thousand dollars uh without any slippage
and with great thoughts um it's uh yeah it is uh it is a decentralized uh protocol uh lps is fully
open and at the center of azuro is a is a basically a modified uh amm design uh which we call the liquidity
tree and uh yeah and also azuro is is is a base layer it's it's not a platform i mean anybody can
can can build like an uh a betting app or or a widget or an integration uh or even like a new
product but for now basically we've had uh several uh betting websites uh utilizing and built on azuro
and uh yeah as of recently we've been yeah we've been getting a lot of a lot of uh traction so i'd say
officially the days of you know uh basically thinking about polymarket when people think about
uh betting on sports or or some of these kind of like uh protocols and and projects from maybe two
three four years back is is just officially over uh what is what is possible now is that uh people can
have a pretty uh close uh experience to to to what is happening in centralized you know traditional
uh bookies uh uh on azuro and uh yeah it's just in a fully kind of uh proper divide package uh where
azuro is the underlying protocol for infrastructure and liquidity and uh applications tap into that and
uh they yeah they they can start a betting website or or or app in in just a few days without any
uh any upfront costs uh any risk management know-how uh no pricing on the markets uh etc and uh yeah
things with polygon have gone great uh we've uh yeah we we had like kind of like our public
alpha release on nosy chain and then we then then we did polygon as well and uh yeah the volumes have
been uh very very substantial in i think in may we had uh nearly three and a half million in place bets
um uh and uh more than 30 000 bets so uh yeah we are very excited to uh yeah to see how uh how
things go as uh there's going to be of course quite a lot of uh you know substantial um improvements
and upgrades in the future but i think we're now at this stage where uh if uh anyone you know like
is still with the perceptions of the old days where you know like you don't have liquidity and uh you
know betting is peer-to-peer um that that that that's kind of over uh and uh uh yeah we are very
excited to be to be on the forefront of it and uh and and also doing it here
awesome awesome um yeah i not a lot of people actually talk about sports betting
on the blockchain but in real life there is such a big market because it is a big market and now i
think uh sport x was there on polygon i mean is there on polygon one of the biggest sports betting
and then you know there is poly market and like i was i was also betting on uh on the succession
finale uh who who would win that i didn't win i didn't win it i i i had a feeling maybe tom would
win but i just didn't put my money on tom but i mean it is what it is um no spoilers
i mean there are like hundreds of people here damn that's a one three three really good
spoiler well done nice no no nothing happened nothing happened nothing happened no one listened
anything and i think uh but yeah i was always thinking like why are like i've been using azuro
since practically day one i think it launched on polygon two three months ago and now they're also
like the yields are very good on the lp side of course there are risks of course people should
understand the risks of uh of like what uh is the risk of uh providing lp but i want to understand
like you know because the ui is so good the ux is like you know exactly how some of the
traditional booking uh sorry bookie sports bookie uh things are and like i i didn't used to do it on
on like i like web 2 stuff but i think because i have some change over here i try to use it and learn
more uh but how and because you have this you have integrations with bookmaker i think maybe you can
talk more about that and then there is merit circle and these are other uh other front ends that use
your thing how do you think and why did you choose to do this versus do it centralized like how
polymarketers or other people are yeah curious very curious about it yeah well i mean we me my
partners we have a lot of experience kind of working in the traditional space on that front and uh we
know kind of what is the mass market proposition and what people care uh so for us it was extremely
clear that uh overall uh you know there has to be basically betting has to become peer to pull
uh so that uh all the markets can be liquid because you know like if if a guy come comes and
they want to bet on a particular event and they go and then there's like okay yeah i can bet five
dollars you know or or maybe even less uh and uh um uh yeah and and they can't do it uh then then
you know like this this can never work right maybe for some kind of niche markets that are more
popular so for example polymarket for some some kind of big things is is pretty good but for sports
you need to have coverage right you you've got to cover a very very wide array of markets and all
of these markets should work from the beginning so people should be able to come and place a bet and
and yeah and and uh and move on uh so uh yeah that's why we focused on uh yeah on making it
peer to pull and uh essentially having like a modified amm design so that so that on-chain
betting can can work for yeah for for the mainstream public and uh uh yeah so so pretty
pretty obviously though on the other side you have uh then uh a public lps so initially we started with
bootstrapping the pools you know like getting some some money from you know like our early vcs etc
uh but now but now all the private liquidity is out and and you know like we have about i think now
800 lps uh which are which are just you know like anywhere else in defy uh putting money like
uh yourself myself uh there and uh uh earning really really uh high yield uh i think on polygon
now it's uh 36 percent uh for about two months which is which is impressive maybe it's gonna go
down a little bit like over time but uh but still it's it's very impressive on on stable coins right
uh so uh yeah and in terms of the apps uh we we initially incubated uh the the bookmaker dot xyz app
uh from the beginning so that it can showcase you know what what is possible on azuro uh but
uh i think two three months ago and pretty much kind of like when we when we went live on polygon
as well uh we started really putting much more effort into into what is the core uh go-to-market
strategy for azure in general which is like um external you know teams and applications etc are
building on uh uh on azuro and uh are competing basically on marketing and user experience and and so
forth and actually it's it's really great because i also see here uh you know like i see bed swirl uh
are here today uh which uh they they they were on polygon already uh they were casino with traction
etc etc and actually just today uh they uh they also integrated azuro and uh now they have uh a
sports betting from azuro on uh on the on the bets world casino uh which is uh yeah which is amazing
and just the other day we had another one uh which is called deck swing uh go live uh also on polygon
uh with a yeah a pretty cool team uh with a yeah with a very interesting strategy for go to market in
in southeastern asia so and yeah in the in the next uh couple of weeks and months we expect you know much
more on on that front so uh i think uh yeah we're extremely excited in in that direction and uh we are
we are just working you know like as as hard as we can now on the like all the tooling making it as easy
straightforward uh as possible for um yeah for anybody to just launch an application or product
and tapping into the liquidity from from the azuro markets uh so that we can you know like become that
concentrate concentrating layer for liquidity where uh pricing is going to be great and uh yeah uh
everybody can uh can can tap into it
got it got it got it makes makes sense makes sense and uh when are you launching on zk vm we
haven't we haven't looked at it uh at all so um uh that's something that we probably should uh
should take offline uh actually we have not really looked that much into into zk generally
uh but uh yeah we need to we need to have a look no no for sure yo hamza do you do you go to the
grocery store and also ask everybody when they're launching on zk vm yeah i do i know who's saying
this and i know i agree you know like i think i've legitimately worn my my polygon zk vm shirt uh to
the store that's all i have to talk about there is a polygon zk vm shirt yep i i have two of them
if you can't find one i'll send you one of mine correct i don't have i don't even have a polygon
shirt new one i have like 2021 polygon shirt yeah i think i got it at uh someone from polygon gave it
to me at in columbia at devcon uh in bogota i believe i think that's where i got it yeah i'm just i'm just
as rocking as polly whale shirt polly polly whale oh bro don't remind me of those things uh
we are not launching on on zk without without a shirt mate like i'm waiting for a shirt and then
we can speak yeah i'll i'll ask ryan he's in he's at congress right now but i'll ask
i'll ask that to send uh yeah but now we also have retro so i i know who's behind this but yeah uh
yeah i mean but really guys if you are not on zk vm yet you really should be looking into it in all
seriousness it would be like if you know eth moved from eth 1.0 to eth 2.0 and if it had a new chain
and you were not on the new chain uh i mean that's how powerful zk vm is so uh yeah yeah i mean i i agree
i think i think one thing is that as more puzzle pieces come then you will start to see more users
come and i think also the thing is is a lot of users are really trying to right now they're just
trying to chase a bunch of like fucking airdrops right and so when you see a chain that it has a
potential for an airdrop they're going to just be going going to that chain and trying to be active
there for uh you know for that potential so hamza just lie to everyone and just be like yeah airdrop
coming soon and then uh well the rumors are definitely swirling and i and i don't think
there's any lying involved oh there we go alpha right here for this is not coming officially from
polygon i am i am not officially from polygon but uh i am sure there's going to be an airdrop i'm just
going to say it i will i will bet i will bet guaranteed airdrop from rock i will bet my my
quick tokens on it so you guys better do it now because you're going to make me look bad if it
well there there we go if it doesn't come from polygon it comes from quake
yeah i didn't i didn't say anything on that moving out moving ahead uh moving ahead of this
win airdrop news hamza come on man stop holding out on us bro i thought we were friends
no um no more uh but uh come on come on i also see i also see eon from clobber uh bro i don't know if
you are uh if you want to come up uh so clobber is also wink blink blink twice if airdrop
uh no no not now um so eon i see eon from clobber also um and i don't know uh ask if you can get him
up also uh but clobber is uh one of the better uh uh exchanges now on on zk and uh and they're fully
you know fully on chain clob uh central limit order book i think uh they have just launched a
few few weeks ago and they're just uh getting started so i don't know if you can uh get him
up asif but if you can yeah just one moment i'm sending the invite
and in the meantime yeah we kyber uh also like you guys mentioned that you know you're going to uh
what could love to hear what is the new things with kyber ai i think you mentioned uh something and
maybe you want to talk a little more about it yeah i think just on the topic of zk evm uh we are
looking at zk evm as a full-fledged end-to-end system to look at integrating privacy proof systems
so i think on our side our research teams our engineering teams looking at enabling a full
privacy focus decks uh so i think that's something that's on our radar currently working progress uh so
very happy to hear everything that all the builders are talking about here uh and as you know for for
those that are not so acquainted uh you know kyber has always been an og builder working with polygon
working with the evm world um pioneering the deck swap interface liquidity aggregation the dow
models and even uh creating wrap bitcoin so right now um we have a few things deployed on polygon uh one is
our aggregator the second thing is elastic which is our concentrated liquidity amm that's
built from the ground up uh by our team so it's it's not uni v3 fork uh it's it's uh built
completely separate um and we just resumed elastic farms last week after upgrading our contracts
and running liquidity mining and we just gained in the past week about 30 million in tvr
uh and we have a hundred percent boosted rewards in the first month of this farm's resumption so we
have some great deals on our medic stigmatic eve stick eve so we work with uh some great protocols on
polygon lido finance cheetah protocol some other great builders as well and you know we just try to
figure out ways to create amazing degenial loops together so i think that's on the amm side uh the tool
that we that i just mentioned earlier is called kyber ai so i think one of the things that's uh
looking at how do we help all the users coming into d5 is that if i'm coming into d5 and i came from
let's say a central exchange on a central exchange maybe i have access to a few hundred tokens um
and in d5 you have access to thousands so d5 is really fast if you don't look at all the assets
there's thousands and thousands of assets to look through so what we looked at is we looked at the
billions of trading data that we have uh we fed it through machine learning algorithm and we have
an on-chain tool called kyber ai it's your companion to scan through more than 4 000 tokens all at the
same time it gives you bullish or bearish ratings based on our proprietary kyber score so this takes
into account on-chain and technical indicators price movements volumes in and out of sex volumes and
this gives the ordinary user the ability to technically analyze tokens and the market
faster and more comprehensively even than an expert analyst and if you are an expert analyst then you
can go into all these various uh technical indicators all within one platform it's on the beta uh a phase
right now we just literally opened up two days ago so if people are interested you can go to kyber
swap.com slash kyber ai you can sign up for the beta waitlist we are opening up um slots in batches
of a few hundred at a time uh we just had the first like a hundred uh beta users coming in so so that's
the kyber ai site i think this is like on on our side our thesis is as a trading platform uh to have an
all-in-one experience for all d5 users to be able to uh participate as a liquidity provider at the best
rates uh to swap as the best rates uh to swap as the best rates and then to have tools so that i can
make better decisions in a very very overwhelming uh uh defi world so so that's all about uh kyber ai
and what we're doing hamsa
awesome awesome i think since we are speaking about dexes i would love to hear more from retro
team as well because i think what these guys are right now doing i think has not been done
in the space till now uh they already have a bunch of partnerships lined up uh so hey good
hey really quickly before retro just a second everybody in the audience let's uh this is a big
deal this this mega space is really glad to see the polygon team doing this so uh let's give a hand to
them for putting this together and let's give a hand to the audience uh for being here uh because
the audience makes it all possible and if we could ask the audience please go ahead and retweet this
share it with your friends if you want to help people uh learn about polygon and understand what's
what's so awesome about the entire polygon ecosystem and community let's show some strength and retweet and
share in your groups comment like etc show some engagement thanks guys that's it yeah i was just
yeah i was just going to say the same thing uh if you can really reshare and uh you know like the
tweet and uh i also have also commented over here it just helps with the algorithm and uh elon papa
elon uh is happy with us and please don't uh shot tesla sometimes uh i think people find that and you
know get angry and uh it doesn't the spaces gets very glitchy so please retweet uh please retweet uh the
main tweet and also if you can share it across your communities that would be really really
appreciated yeah and i think one more small shout out to our community as well uh radar block who
actually one was one of the first ones who actually took the initiative and said the group and everything
and they played a big role in setting this up so yeah huge shout out to them as well uh but yeah uh retro
go ahead uh howdy y'all uh skila i am helping with uh with getting retro launched and off the ground
if you're unfamiliar with retro uh retro is a um retro is a ve33 style decks that it will be launching on
polygon pos relatively soon within this month uh some of the some of the unique elements of it i guess you
could say is one it's a friendly fork of thena so uh we talk to thena about once a week um and get a
lot of advice um go over a bunch of different things but also another thing is that it will have
concentrated liquidity we forked uni v3 um so we'll have concentrated liquidity pools ready for
good volume deep liquidity all that kind of good stuff some of the unique elements of it is we are
working with merkle which is a product by angle to help with the distribution of emissions um this
allows a lot of flexibility and what we're able to do with emissions a lot of different combinations but
also what it enables us to do is use a bunch of different alms um which is active liquidity
managers so it won't just be using one like like say gamma or whatnot we're actually going to be using
gamma ichi defy edge and quite a few other ones um that that for one should kind of open up the space a
little bit more it's a little bit more decentralized and also should increase competition to make
liquidity uh more competitive and also more efficient um let's see
what else what else do you think is uh interesting to touch upon i think primarily i think right now if
you think about it no one has integrated or juiced uni v3 up until now when it comes to like a solidly
kind of model so i think that was very interesting and i think on the merkle side as well i think just
today pablo put out a tweet that the polygon team was also able to help make one of the products better
so i think merkle integration was also very very interesting because yeah i mean again no one has
done that as well up until now no no i i don't think so i don't think so either and it's very very flexible
i don't i don't know why more people don't know about merkle but it's like it's it's magical when it comes to
uh reward distribution uh and then yeah with with uni v3 i mean the thought behind that was and
honestly like i'll i'll mention this too rock is we we went up to algebra to see because we are from
the fork of thena we went up to algebra because uh algebra is being used by thena as well and you
guys have a strong-ass relationship with algebra they were like no buddy uh sorry we are quick
swap only on polygon um but actually i think that was that was good because we were able to kind of
take a look into a bunch of different uh concentrated liquidity options and see kind of which one would
make the best fit for us and yeah it just it seemed like a lot of people have already started building
on uni v3 uni v3 is very tried and true tested um and so yeah we went with we went with that route
um i think another another big element to retro is that it's going to be integrating closely with
the cash token cash token is an interest-sparing stablecoin so the integration there is that pools
with cash will be auto bribing or like the yield from cash will be auto bribing pools that have cash in
it so bribes are a huge huge part of any ve33 style dexes and so having having bribes come in from outside
of the ecosystem and kind of being pumped into the ve holders wallets should be pretty freaking cool
i mean i can carry on all day but i don't want to bore you guys
no definitely definitely makes sense uh makes sense and uh and maybe i actually wanted to hear a little
more about about how you know quick swap pubs is uh is growing uh is growing and you know how
how uh how has the traction been like and uh i think you also have some incentives uh for for
reference and all those things maybe uh maybe you want to talk a little bit more about that yeah
appreciate that hamza um yeah it's been it's been really cool to watch uh the growth has been uh
exponential um so yeah i think um out of about 20 million in total uh tvl on zk evm
quick swap and quick perps and um and gamma our liquidity management protocol uh have like
a 17 or 18 million or something or 16 million of the 20 so um yeah like if you look at you
you can search uh or go to perps dot quick swap dot exchange perps dot quick swap dot exchange
uh and uh click on the analytics um not the analytics at the top that'll take you to
quick swap analytics but uh the quick soft go to analytics in the second uh bar which is for the
perps um and you can see some pretty interesting stats um the daily users is up to a few thousand i think
um growing growing uh faster every day um let's see open interest uh which is like open margin
positions uh is at over a million so there's there's over a million dollars of uh open margin uh leverage
positions uh the volume has been hitting close to uh two million per day for the last couple days uh which is
pretty crazy with only you know 6.5 million uh in tvl um i guess i could explain a little about how
for those who don't know how the quick perps or gmx model works the the heart of it is the the qlp
token for us or glp for gmx and that is a index it's basically uh a bunch of blue chip uh volatile and
stable tokens which you can trade against so we have six uh tokens in that and that makes uh
essentially uh i think it's 36 or it might be it's i think it's slightly less just because of the math
but uh basically you know if you have six tokens it's 36 virtual trading pairs so you could trade uh
uh bitcoin uh against uh usdc uh etc so the the six assets are bitcoin eth matic usdc usdt die and so
you could trade these assets against each other uh with 50x leverage so if you deposit say a hundred dollars
of uh eath into the into the qlp basket the index then you'll get a certain amount a weighted amount
of each of the assets within so if you put a hundred dollars you'll get uh i believe it's 32 of usdc
27 of eath i think 20 of bitcoin eight dollars of matic etc um so you're holding a a nice index which
holds about uh 55 volatile assets bitcoin eth and matic and then 45 uh stable coins so in this market
that's probably a lot of people's portfolios anyways so if you have some stables and have
some volatiles you might as well deposit them into this and hold all of the above which has some good um
uh like risk kind of profiles i would say personally and then you earn currently uh i believe
with the um the farming rewards we're giving through airdrops and the uh trading fees uh it's like 50
apr right now it's and it's actually a higher apr it's the the way the calculation is done is kind of
i'm not a fan of um it's kind of accurate except for the fact that like rewards are kind of rewards
for the previous week are paid out to the current week and so that kind of messes with the apr in a
weird way i don't want to get into the math but uh basically the aprs are actually higher than it says
uh but you could say it's it's close enough you know about about 50 apr um which is which is cool uh
which is great for holding you know a bunch of assets that we all probably hold anyways um so yeah
um it's growing rapidly it's uh every day it's getting faster the growth um and uh we're actually
growing much faster than gmx originally grew and that's pretty impressive especially since ckbm is
you know still in beta and uh you know there's not other apps on the chain for us to like pull liquidity
from it's just uh we have to you know all the liquidity coming to uh paul you know quick perps
and and other apps on on ckbm for that matter it's it's you know it's harder to get people there because
it's a new chain you've got to get people to try it uh similar to polygon pos originally it was always
a matter of like you know this was your polygon pos was the first like layer two that people actually
uh adopted so that was even even harder because people were not comfortable like trying a new
chain right if you were used to ethereum for your whole like defy life uh going into metamask
and adding a new chain was uh foreign to you and uh but once you did it people were users for life
and i think that's what we're going to see with zkvm once people try it if you can get them to come
try it and i think it's going to be a lot easier this time given polygons proof proven success and
reputation in the industry and their you know stellar bd team and you've got you know real true legends
on the team like asif here and hamza uh and the rest of the team who uh who have a proven track record
now so you know lots of people are going to come um we're getting past the first hurdles which is
the gas uh needed to come down you know only a couple weeks ago like i said earlier it was like
you know 10 20 a transaction and now it's down to to add liquidity on uh you know qlp into qlp it's
like a dollar and that's a very complicated transaction actually to do a swap on quick swap
i've seen uh like 10 cents so uh and i've heard people say even cheaper so um that was the first hurdle
the getting enough transactions on the chain to get us past like a kind of threshold where the
now the transaction fees are dropping which makes more people come use it which makes them drop
further and now that's a got a flywheel effect we've got momentum there and then the other part that we
need uh is chain link needs to come um we got gnosis safe and a bunch of other things api 3 we've got you
know uh some oracles but a lot of projects do want to use chain link uh which is you know fair enough
um and then there's some other pieces uh fire blocks is coming which is the institutional
uh uh like on-chain custody uh solution so once they come i know we're in touch with
i don't know 20 different funds that have said you know they're waiting for fire blocks and once that
comes you're going to see a huge amount of liquidity pouring into the ecosystem um yeah that's my two
cents awesome uh i also saw victor did he drop off uh victor from idx yep uh let me check with him
while we're waiting on that by the way we've got some pretty uh big names in the audience a lot of
a lot of familiar faces also i see uh peter schroeder from circle a director at circle
which does usdc um yeah we've got a ton of ton of big people in the audience here so really
really cool to see shout out to two audience members i'm going to just quickly while we're
waiting for uh the speaker to come up uh just shout out some random community members i'll try to
actually call out the not big names but we've got uh super alloy dot lens we've got akiri dot zk we've
got east side dot btc da zillionaire uh we've got poppy billy we've got nft ave stefan we've got ethereum
just want to give a few audience members a shout out because the audience members are really the most
important part of these spaces yeah i think uh someone from idx is also joining in the meantime
uh yeah thank you and deval did we ask you did we get uh deval or josh uh from deval up or is there
an issue yeah i've sent in right i've sent in right but uh i think it's pending right now but i think in
the meantime we have collection on the stage they are also building something which i feel especially
with the whole sports we were now catching on in crypto i think they're also positioned really well
so would love to hear all things collection yeah thank you asif um yeah so at collection we are like
draftkings for web3 so we are building the largest real money gaming and prediction platform on the
polygon blockchain and we have already launched our web3 fantasy cricket game last year and added the
prediction feature a few months back that has like dynamic nfts within the gameplay and we are also
building it for uh multiple other sports like right now we're live with cricket because cricket is
religion in india and the indian market for fantasy um game is really really big um but we're also
expanding to different other sports um bringing it all on to the polygon blockchain
awesome awesome i think uh i think the folks from relative mentioned earlier that they are also
actually exploring more uh on of course on the crypto native side they have pairs trading
but i think they have more products in the pipeline so would love to hear more from them as well yeah
yeah um so yeah like i did mention earlier we're building a bunch of products uh you know with the
pair trading product you know we're also looking to deploy on zk abm uh soon uh there'll be a beta
you know we're already running an incentivized beta for the peer-to-peer wagers but yeah uh for the
pair trading product you know i think uh we're just trying to build something that uh allows people to
sort of expand the trading pairs that they have available to them i think on most derivative platforms you see
now uh stable coins are basically the you know base denominator pair and that sort of limits uh
the profitable opportunities people have and you know of course this doesn't apply to institutions or
you know pro traders who sort of do pair trading uh anyways but right now uh anyone who executes a
pair trade they sort of need to uh maintain two positions right you need to monitor two positions
and that comes with its own challenges uh so relative with our perps uh we'll have like these custom
pairs of course the goal is eventually to allow people to create their own pairs and we'll get
there but yeah to start with we'll have these exotic custom pairs like you could think uh doge bnb uh
eat ptc of course uh things like that you know matic eth uh so we're planning to have exotic markets like
that um and uh i know quick swap is doing the gmx model uh we're sort of going the other way we're sort
of borrowing from gns so we'll have a unified you know liquidity pool with a stable coin uh i think
that's more suitable for us because that you know sort of gives us a better sort of utilization rate
for lp capital you know you don't have to worry about liquidity for long tail assets um yeah and uh
apart from that we're also building a very gamified version of an options platform so it's going to be a
a lotterized model i think uh options as well right now it's like a institutions market uh very
difficult for the average web3 user to understand so we're we're building something where you know
you don't really need to know the option greeks you don't need to know the technicals in fact there
won't even be option sellers uh you just purchase tickets you predict say for example what do you
think the price of btc is going to be at the end of the month and all of that money goes into a pool
for that market and whoever predicts correctly will be able to collect the entire pool so it's like
a lotterized um model of options so yeah we're excited about this we have an airdrop running as
well so do check us out happy to also answer any questions got it uh also ask if uh i think seraphim
also requested um if we can get seraphim up also uh yep i've invited reese as well but uh i think they
have not accepted it i don't see seraphim's request
i think he has requested so he's helping uh lido and anji and uh was previously at um previously with
with euler of course and if you can get him up also that would be great
yo lamza also when when is robin hood launching on uh it's live robin hood wallet is already live
uh it's already live yes yes yes you can download it from the app uh they have they are a bit slow on
the marketing uh just like they're uh ab testing a lot of the ui and everything it's uh it's already
live you can go and yeah you can go and download uh the robin hood wallet i think it's only on ios
right now uh but uh in the new in the next few weeks uh they will be doing android and it is public
uh to download okay nice when did that launch like when did they actually launch it uh i think i think in
it like they announced it in uh when was this uh austin what was the event in austin uh consensus yes
yes yes yes yes last month i think yeah okay yeah they didn't do any marketing
yeah i think i think you have a lot of like background noise uh
yeah yeah i think i think we have a lot of uh a lot of requests to join in but for some reason people
are uh not able to join because of just yeah please stop shorting tesla i think please don't
do that um elon is not happy i think and that's why uh people are not able to join um uh join in the
meantime yeah in the meantime uh rock like you you've been uh you've been in the space for a long time
like longer than at least me for sure and uh i don't know about others but uh but how how is this current
bear market and like how how are you seeing um how are you seeing you know the sentiment across uh
across different uh across the different industry in d5 nft everywhere yeah yeah so i've been in the
industry for almost a decade now um about eight years maybe a little longer um and yeah this is my
third bear market so um at by this point you end up you and he grow kind of nerves of steel uh and the
day-to-day volatility doesn't doesn't really scare you so much anymore uh you know after the you know
my first bear market uh was was very scary even even the second one but i think even by the second one i
i had i had full belief that this was the future of finance and uh the future of uh just in in general
uh the way people will hold assets and not not just maybe financialized assets but uh you know other
assets like uh i think that eventually real estate will be tokenized and you'll be able to buy a smaller
portion of a piece of real estate and it can make real estate more liquid uh and we see it already with art
with nfts uh etc so i think um you know global global bonds uh treasuries um will either be on
blockchains or you won't need them because you know you'll have say bitcoin uh replacing bonds
uh etc so yeah after this is my third bear market and um i would say that one thing that's really
different about this uh bear market is that in in previous ones there was the general consensus
uh became crypto is done it's a failed experiment and uh you had a you kind of core group of believers
that you know were fighting that narrative but the general public and even most of the people in the
industry so most of the people most crypto investors even the majority of them thought it was over uh
even in the last run i think the difference now is there's not very many people saying that crypto is
over there's very few people saying that crypto is over uh including like the mainstream media now a
lot of people are you know realizing that this this is here to stay it's just a matter of when is the
next run when do we come back uh when will it be adopted will countries try to uh handicap it by giving
you know these harsh regulations which could maybe set it back uh you know six months a year two years
or even you know god forbid 10 years i i'm not i i won't rule that out as a possibility i don't think
that's what's happening here um for for a variety of reasons um but everybody realizes this technology
is important even the people that hate it realize that there's some merit to it even the people that
you know talk trash on on bitcoin or crypto still say they you know oh yeah blockchain technology is
great but i don't like bitcoin you know you hear that kind of rhetoric from some of the some of the
the people out there uh but we all see it's here to stay um and i and i personally think that um i
think we're maybe i would say six months uh is a pretty reasonable amount of time for us to really
get some strong balances uh and i think uh 12 months so i would say we we have some strong movement up
uh within six months i would give that a uh 50 probability and i would say um within 12 months i
would give it a 85 probability that we have very strong movement up if not new all-time highs or if
not completely shattering all-time highs and going even even further up um i think that people are
starting to realize we're finally seeing a divergence say uh in in some things that we've kind of been
waiting for you know like you know the idea of bitcoin and crypto being a hedge or being hedges to
inflation um being alternatives to the banking system and um like so when covid crash happened we saw bitcoin
crash with it uh which was unfortunate you know a lot of people thought you know well uh bitcoin should uh
uh be inversely correlated to the stock market and inversely correlated to the financial system but
we saw in the liquidity crisis you know all things you know correlation uh it it all goes uh it all
rides together it all goes to one um but i think recently with the bank collapses we saw and and not
just that but just in general we've been seeing a lot of days maybe most days where when the stock
market goes up crypto goes down and when the stock market goes down crypto goes up and that we haven't
seen that in the past uh they were very correlated before and so i think we're we are pulling away
which i think is is not required but is very helpful um because if we're going to be a hedge to
these systems we don't want to be you know running in tandem with them constantly uh we want people to
have a way to to uh to get out of those systems to opt out you know uh you could call it a lifeboat
and and that's what crypto is so when the banks started collapsing uh you saw bitcoin and ethereum
and polygon etc getting stronger and i think that people are going to start realizing this and you're
going to see that you know every time a country around the world has you know inflation or hyperinflation
you're going to see bitcoin and crypto get stronger every time you know there's a banking crisis around
the world bitcoin and crypto get stronger every time the united states or other countries try to
weaponize their currencies against other countries uh in a modern financial warfare you're going to see
bitcoin and crypto get stronger and d5 um so i think that uh i mean i'm obviously mega bullish on all of
this i think it's the most important um invention for humanity in a long time i would put it right up
there with the internet electricity uh and the internal combustion engine uh this is something we've
humans have you know sought after for thousands five thousand tens of thousands of years humans have been
looking for a neutral uh a neutral money a neutral medium of exchange and and we finally have something
where you know if the us doesn't like what you're doing and i love the united states is i think you know
i say it's it's the best of the worst you know all governments have major flaws but the us i think is the best
government there is um but uh yeah i think um i think that uh i think that bitcoin is really going to change
the way different countries around the world uh interact i think that uh people are tired of the u.s
bullying everyone uh trying to control everything how how is the sec here trying to crack down on
companies that are not in the united states that had nothing to do with the united states that didn't
raise money in the united states like it's it's totally ridiculous and they're pushing the the
greatest companies in crypto out of the united states uh so i uh i'm getting uh uh you know going on
hitting a lot of topics here but i do think that the pendulum will swing with regulations um that's the
the current hot topic so i guess it's worth talking mentioning but i think the pendulum will swing i
think that the united states is not stupid it's a company a country or company maybe both the driven
by by profits by capitalism uh by uh these incentives and if all these companies start leaving i think it's
great what coinbase did when the sec started you know serving them a wells notice and now uh officially
suing them etc that coinbase said okay well we're announcing our our new exchange that's not in
the united states uh and basically saying go fuck yourself uh we will go where we're wanted um and i think
that's that's a great uh thing that entrepreneurs can do we see it a lot in the united states when taxes get
too high companies leave and now they're making the regulatory environment uh not not viable for or not not uh
not desirable for companies and so you see ripple coinbase a bunch of north american miners uh leaving
the united states and quickly you're going to see if all that tax dollars start leaving and we start
seeing the rapid growth in these industries uh overseas you're going to quickly see the united states
change its tune i promise you that they are not stupid uh there are a lot of reasons why they want to
fight crypto right it it scares them um because the us dollar is the world reserve currency and they
don't want to lose that and i understand that it's great having that uh as you as an american but um we
we will see the united states wise up the same way they did with the internet they started to over
regulate the internet they tried to fight cryptography and they realized that these things were important
technologies and that uh the united states doesn't want to be left behind we want to be at the
the united states has the best financial uh tools and companies and systems uh the most trusted you
know banks etc in the world uh and if they start realizing which many are that you know crypto is
part of the future financial system they're gonna have to change their tune if they don't then united
the united states will no longer be the financial hub of the world no definitely this uh uh like agree
with the entire gentleman i think we also have uh arthur zero x who uh who is like i am a huge huge huge
fan uh uh i if you uh if you're available to chat out there you can definitely put a uh put a request
uh a speaker will definitely be it will be great to have you up here as if if you can get him up and
arthur uh has been a you know strong supporter of uh of polygon since like the way back and also
especially with zk vm now i think we have uh we have a chat uh practically every day and they have been
supporting a lot of protocols on uh on zk and thank you so much sir for uh for all the support and also
people who don't know uh arthur uh 2000 like the previous bear market you know uh uh arthur's fund
defiance and uh had a lot of like big wins uh across synthetics across you know multiple projects
and lido and has been a strong strong strong um strong supporter of uh on chain at defi i think i if
you if folks don't follow him i think people in this cycle who have come don't really follow him
that much like i also joined pretty late in this uh in 2021 only uh but uh but i i've been following
and you should definitely uh give a shout out and uh and follow arthur 0x on twitter for uh some of his
like takes are like absolutely excellent uh and he has been also helping us with a lot of like you know
institutional onboarding and how how big funds think uh oh yeah uh hey arthur thank you for joining
thanks for having me i'm just hopping in to check out what's going on
no for sure thank you so much for uh it's a great honor for you for us to you know have you uh
firstly uh yeah i think you have a lot of like ideas around zk and you know um i have been answering a
lot of a lot of your questions but i would love to uh hear like you know what do you think of you know
ethereum scaling and uh how has polygon been doing and just in general uh especially around the game
scaling and d5 yeah um i think coming from a person that has been in a space for almost six years
i think we are finally at an infection point where it is possible to build
mass consumer grade applications on the blockchain this is not possible in 2018
very difficult in 2020 but i think we are getting there right now there's a variety of
of scaling solution uh depending on what kind of trade of a project one to optimize for
you can go on you know polygon and even polygon right now have two solution and i think we have
more solution coming up soon from polygon um and then you have row up various row up and there's also
a new form of service they call it row up as a service there's a quite a few company providing that so
that approach is yeah a project can just spin up a row up for their own uh unique purposes
and obviously on the cosmos side we have the app chain and i think yeah we are at the level where we
can build applications that can accommodate millions up to tens of millions of daily active users
so i think this is something that a lot of people are still on due to the bear market
yeah and even like adding on to what arthur is saying um and i actually spoke a little bit
on this at the last all roads lead to polygon to other spaces but i'm very confident that the way that
the decentralized finance ecosystem is going to evolve towards more structured finance and more
derivatives over time uh and if you take a look at the roadmap of how traditional financial markets
grew over say the last five decades from the brentwood system you go from basic equities or the
equivalent of tokens to options right you see that with dopex or basic derivatives like perps with some
leverage then you evolve to some more hedging activity and finally you get to more structured
products they're more complex and at every stage the size of the entire financial market grows
exponentially for example delta neutral products are sort of the cutting edge right now in d5 but if you
look at the equivalent point of where traditional finance was when that happened it's still very very
early so delta neutral products may be a cutting edge now but it's not going to stay that way for long
uh for sure uh i also see hand up by api3 uh go ahead
yeah i mean great points all around and i definitely agree with arthur in the sense that before building
consumer grade applications wasn't really possible especially with the latency
and cost associated with each transaction uh and it's not just i think those two factors the
third factor being uh you have to open a metamask wallet every time you have to interact with the
blockchain i think that was a huge pain point for a lot of applications on how to figure out
a seamless user experience like if you're playing a game you want to focus on the game not focus on
finding a metamask pop-up uh that that just takes you out of the experience and i like if you build
something like lens protocol on let's say polygon every time you need to post something or do something
you need to again do a transaction and i think all of those things are going to be solved now with things
like account abstraction uh so it's not just at the infrastructure level that we've
we've we've we've we've become better it's also at the at the developer level where like do developers
are getting these new tools that make their user experience for for you or me you know the average
user much much simpler and i think when you combine this with the speed latency cost reduction
i think i think the next bull cycle will see we'll see actual applications that that that will scale with
with more users which is which is going to be awesome
uh for sure actually uh since we have you know uh time and i think uh this this topic of uh i saw
a lot of like threaders not a lot but i think few of the threaders who have started to uh who have
started to you know talk about uh oev and this this topic of oev uh and i also saw see victor hey
hey victor actually let's hear from victor uh thanks for joining in and uh yeah thanks for joining
in victor would love to hear you know uh from about idex and a little more about you dropped again
uh never mind uh yeah as i was saying uh api3 oh wait he's back again um we will give you a couple of
minutes to to chillin uh but if i actually would love to hear you know uh i've i've been seeing a
lot of like uh chatter on the space about oev and a few mev uh mev projects have also started to you
know uh explore this order flow auction and uh i think i think it is one of the most interesting
spaces and like disclosure i i actually helped uh write a bit of the not a bit like uh i was helping
uh helping them write their oev paper but we'd love to hear it from from a core oracle project and
a project that has been helping uh now i think like seven eight d5 protocols on zk evm like what
what do you think of uh how are you thinking of you know this first party oracles and oev and these
new terms that have come up yeah it's uh it's been a pretty interesting experience explaining it to daps
um when when a d5 project understands what oev is uh it it really uh like you can really see it
in their voice that they or they understand oh this is how it works this is this is pretty pretty cool
so uh oev is nothing but uh is the is the subset of mev that is associated with oracle transactions
and so uh i'm sure like if you guys have done a uniswap trade uh and if it's a very large trade
which incurs a lot of slippage uh there are these mev bots that open and close the position just before
and after your trade and so they'll be able to extract uh value from doing this these types of
transactions and this is typically known as mev uh when you apply this to
the oracle transactions it's called oev so that's pretty much what oev is uh what we've done at
api3 is we figured out a way for daps that lose a lot of money from oev transactions um and send it
back to them and uh for things like perpetuals right uh relative is one of our partners uh who we are
testing out the oev alpha with uh and they're building a perpetual but essentially for perpetuals
what you can ascend what you can do is you can open a 100x long leverage just before the oracle
updates and close the 100x long leverage just after the oracle updates and you can essentially extract
a lot of uh money from the lps of the protocol uh and this is a big problem with uh the gmx model and
other oracle based uh solutions where you have a lot of this value being extracted
um what we've done is we've turned this into a game theoretical uh type situation where uh searchers
the people who are doing the extraction of this oev uh they bid on the right to update the oracle
and so the bids the auction proceeds we take them and we transfer them back to the dap and this way they
mitigate a lot of the oev just because of how the game theory works which i won't get into but that's
essentially what oev is and um i i see dovish is here as well and they are also one of our partners
for this oev program so uh i'll just let them chime in and explain explain a bit of it if they want to
one one question i had around this is like what is the benefit for end user in this like sure like it
makes a lot of sense on the technical level but like what is the end of the day does it help in
better pricing does it help in better uh less so there's a multitude of benefits i i'll just go
over the first three the first is like there are more frequent oracle updates so if there are more
frequent oracle updates uh there will be always better pricing whenever you open or close a position
um so that is the number one benefit uh the number two benefit is the update is not performed by the
oracle the update is being performed by a third party and it is just verified on chain via the
contracts so that means the oracle is not is not uh paying the gas for those updates so in a way you're
outsourcing the cost of the updates to third parties and making the feed more granular so
that's killing two birds with one stone uh and the final thing is we are mitigating the oev itself
and so all of those auction proceeds it goes back to the jap and they can put it back into their lp
pools and so you their lps now earn earn a higher apy or you know um they can distribute it however they
want so i think these three these three are the key benefits i might be missing some more stuff but
there's just so much that happens uh in oev that um yeah i i can just think of these three at the
moment got it got it yeah also would love to uh davish i'll come back to you in a second uh victor is
here um thank you for joining i know you've been up and yeah yeah thank you for having me sorry for the
technical difficulties um thank you uh just don't short tesla just don't short tesla anything will work
that is the secret cheat code
so what's up um thanks thanks for uh having me jump on here uh it's good to see some big heavy
hitter projects on the space uh i can chat a little bit about idix chat about a little bit about the market
what do we want to do here yeah we'd love to hear about idix i know we have been chatting recently
about you know what uh the new version of idix and uh you know how can zk as an infrastructure
support you know order book and like new version of exchanges so yeah we'd love to you know uh
sure yeah i'll keep it pretty short um our our thesis is very very simple right we think that
the centralized exchanges specifically for futurist trading uh are pretty good right like they've
they've done a stellar job on the matching engine front like you know back in the day i think we
used to have a lot of questionable price action and wicks and a lot of outages if you remember the bit
mix uh order submission there um some of the ogs probably remember that so i think we've come a long
way right but the number one risk i think kind of continues to be really the custodial one right like i
don't trust cz with my money i obviously don't trust sp of my money i really don't want to deposit
my funds as collateral and have someone else be able to do something with them right and i think
what we at idix have really identified is like that's really the core issue and so if you're able
to really take something like finance futures and make it self-custodial uh you're able to really win
that market right i think eventually we'll get to a stage where something like completely on-chain
perps or something like gmx makes a lot of sense but right now i think those products are only really
useful for for swing traders right like paying 10 bips and fees each way is really really difficult
to trade with on top of not really having the ability to scalp given that it's not really a
performance uh infrastructure it doesn't really have industry standard api etc so at idix really what
we're trying to build with this new layer 3 exchange that we're working on is essentially a
perp stex that rivals centralized exchanges meaning that we have things like gas fee settlement being
able to deposit from any chain right um having things like instant trading which allows you to
place and cancel orders the same way you would on a centralized exchange and you don't have to manually
whip out your ledger to sign every transaction so that's that's basically what we're building on idix
one of the reasons that we're pretty interested in zkdm is because uh as as as we think about
how we want to compete with centralized exchanges we recognize that being able to offer gas-free
settlement is extremely crucial and being able to process you know thousands upon thousands of
trades per second is also really crucial so we need both a high throughput but also a very low fee
network which is why zk evm like lydium for example is extremely interesting for us as
you know
did we lose him
sorry i got i got a call there uh where did i uh end off what was the last thing i think uh
volydium yeah so basically zkv and volydium is very interesting for us because it essentially allows
us to have that backbone for the layer three infrastructure by having you know high throughput
and and low fee uh environment which exactly is what we need to bring us to parity with centralized
and change and i think eventually we'll probably get to a stage where um something like you know a
completely on-chain um matching engine makes sense but i think for now this hybrid infrastructure of
keeping a really high performance matching engine and trading engine off-chain while having settlement
and custody on-chain and essentially allowing users to self-custody their assets but enjoy all the same
benefits that they did from you know the front end of ftx or binance feature is really our goal
got it got it got it uh yeah i and how how is uh like how are you seeing you know with all this
c5 blow up and uh cex also with all this drama that is happening right now we have seen dex volume go up
recently um go up recently which is surprising to few but like i always believe that you know long
term uh people will definitely move things on chain but it's interesting to see this dynamic play out in
real time and how has idex you know how has your community because some of your community members
are like uh good interesting characters on twitter to say the least so how how have you how have you you
you know uh cracked this culture firstly and second thing is like you know how are you seeing you know
volumes go to your chain or to your right change more than you know c5 i'm very curious on on your
twitter persona and like all the you also have i think a good discord with a lot of folks over there and
a lot of characters over there i just uh just uh see stuff over there but like i would be very curious
to hear how are you thinking about like marketing and branding and especially in a bear market
yeah for sure i mean i can touch on a few things um firstly i guess really the reason we're so
aligned with ct and i think you know as you put it i guess crack the code uh i don't want to brag
or anything like that but i think we're probably uh i think a love child now of ct and i think the
core reason behind that is we identified in reality for us the the ethos that we're trying to do of this
like thesis of just building an exchange that works really like that's all we want to do we're not
trying to like a 10x some sort of innovative like space rocket decks where you have 67 you know
different ways to generate yield by like loaning yourself like you know three different ways like
we're not we're not trying to do that right we're just trying to create the same environment that
people have been trading on for years but now in a much more secure way because blockchain technology
has finally caught up and we can offer gas to be settlement right and so because of that we really
believe in the ethos that ftx had but didn't really execute on which is like built by traders for traders
and so my job to really like reverse engineer what a good product looks like was to amass a team of
people like me right retail traders and so that's why our marketing team is comprised more so of
people that should post and trade rather than people that have like mbas or any sort of actual
formal marketing experience because i think that their messaging and their you know the fact that
they're able to embed themselves in that culture is by far the most important thing and i think that's why
we've had a lot of success with like marketing and building out our brand in general is because
we're part of the community right like we're building it kind of inside out rather than the other way around
uh and i think that's really really good right it's like um audience focused products development and
then product marketing just becomes very very natural fit as a part of that um and you know
it's part of the reasons why i decided to grow this account and started streaming and stuff like that was
because i i realized like i can't really understand this audience without eating my own dog food and
trading every single day uh and that's like part of the reason why i did it and then i got addicted to
it because it's like fucking gambling and then i become an actual trader but yeah part of the reason
initially was was more from a marketing standpoint oh that isn't i didn't know this you started
trading because you wanted to get good at marketing no i was already trading by then but i one of the
reasons i started the like the victor brand and the account when i had like a twitter of only like 700
followers was because i was having so much trouble working with influencers right and like
the the way our space is set up basically everyone that's a scammer is willing to take your money
and anyone reputable that you actually do want to work with is very difficult to get them to take
your money because they're probably already fucking rich right they're probably a good trader right
like how do you get a good trader who's making a thousand dollars every day to take a sponsorship deal
like they don't give a fuck about you so as i kind of realized this i realized really the only way to
build out um the product from like an influencer marketing angle especially in the beginning where like
you don't have reputation or trust is to essentially become like an influencer yourself right and so
i was already trading at that point every day i had some streaming experience and i was like all
right i'm going to take this little baby twitter account with 700 followers and let's see if i can
turn it into a shit posting machine um and yeah like i think like part of part of the initial reason why
i did it was because of that kind of understanding that we have to have our own influencer in-house almost
but then uh i think i started enjoying it way too much and obviously it became uh it became a pretty
fun thing for me to do outside of just serving its marketing purpose
got it got it yeah very cool uh i also see i also see ishan and i also see uh yeah ishan and uh
cc crypto condom as well as ali from sushi swap sushi swap uh recently launched some interesting uh
incentive mechanisms um incentive uh mechanism on uh on uh pos today i think today or day or yesterday
i don't remember um uh using angle protocol and merkel and i think i think it's pretty cool
and uh also asif if you can get up ishan uh if you can get up ishan uh if you if you want to chat ishan
that would be great ishan has been uh uh he runs uh uh go to market agency called scribe 3 and they
have been instrumental in working with a lot of d5 protocols uh sorry one second uh helping with a lot
of d5 protocols um especially gains and also da techs and like a bunch of uh bunch of uh things yeah hey
hey hey ishan come up bro hey what's going on guys i'm happy to be here
yeah ishan has been like uh helpful for a lot of like d5 protocols uh would would love to hear how
you're seeing the space and you know zkvm in general and uh what's the state of the market on your side
yeah yeah we're uh you know it's uh it's hard to find reasons to just be base bullish but we're i think
we're bullish now more than ever um you know the punches keep rolling in but you know what we've
been seeing and you know we like comes i mentioned you know at scribe you know we do go to market for
a lot of defined infrastructure projects so we get this really cool front row seat to um you know
anywhere from 25 to 30 different teams that are building in the space and with that uh you know we
get to see like you know front row seat to the innovation that's happening and you know the problem
sets and the solutions that are being built for the problems that are coming along with you know
scaling different daps uh you know we spend most of our time at the dap level more so in d5 than
anywhere else and so you know we're as bullish as we've ever been the things that we're seeing the
you know i think last cycle was probably hampered i think we could have had even a larger parabolic run
but i think we were hampered by scalability issues you know like a vast vast majority of people
there were not like you know polygon is really the only l2 that was able to do like high transaction
volume and there really weren't like a a lot a lot of great daps at that point and so you know
most of the things were just on mainnet and you know anyone that was around in 2021 it was like
average gas fee across the port was probably like 40 50 dollars um so now that we have like all of the
scalability we have zkvm um you know the applications that are now being built that aren't hampered by
uh you know the ability to find product market fit amidst like you know 40 or 50 transaction fees
you know are unlocking a lot of cool things like comes i mentioned like you know obviously we're
incredibly bullish on the gains team um and being able to do like you know commodities with leverage
on chain um in like a very different you know like like perp dexes in in in this kind of uh liquidity
pool you know like single asset liquidity pool systems are really built for high leverage and and so
that's what gives you the ability to like get real exposure to oil and gold and and things like
that so we're really excited about that um you know d8x building like a liquidy style front end uh a
liquidy style back end for perps and to get like you know a really wide range of order book liquidity and
and having brokers that it can build on top of that is something we're incredibly excited about um you
know i see bet swirl is here we're big fans of the bet swirl guys um that's also another big polygon
pos you know project you know like provably true and fair uh you know on-chain betting we think
that's like something that has an opportunity to disrupt like you know what's probably like a
you know uh hundreds of billions of dollar industry and like whether it's sports betting or just
traditional betting and doing that in provably fair ways is something we're really excited about
um so you know we're as bullish on d5 as ever you know we think the derivative and structured product
market is you know just starting to get really kicked off and that you know the thing that's
cool about d5 that's why we feel so confident that it's going to you know it is the future of
france is that the composability and that the composition aspect was something that wasn't
possible and to really fully live out in the last cycle you know you saw your yearns and things like
that but you know we're finally hitting this next layer of composability and we think like with the lsd5
um you know kind of meta that's happening where you know previously it was like everything was just
yearn yields and what can we do with composition of yearn yields now we're seeing like all these
different lsd protocols and what are all these different things we can do with you know whether
it's wreath or steath or it's sfrx or you know uh all these different new lsd protocols are going to
unlock this whole new level of composability and now we have the scalability in order to really take
advantage of the composition opportunities so um yeah bullish composition right now you know
it's the thing that we're most excited about that we're seeing from all the projects that we're working
with yeah for sure for sure uh and uh i think time to i think we should also have had questions i think
next time or if we if folks have have some questions uh uh you know please uh i think you can raise your
hand or send a request or something uh but in the meantime i think uh now you know zkvm has a lot of
d5 protocols and more coming in i think there are a bunch of um if you want to find alpha uh you can
go to the governance forums i think there are a lot of governance forums uh like you know lyra is there
and then synapse bridge also goes live uh i think sometime sometime this month uh the governance post has
passed so so that will happen and then lyra which is one of the best uh options i think i think it's
generating the most revenue i think i maybe don't quote me on that but i think it is definitely uh
definitely generating the one of the most revenue of all the derivative protocols and uh options
especially options and i think that's the only fully on-chain options protocols i think they are
building on quick swap perps and thank you doc for all the support on the on the governance forum and
everything um yeah i think i think we can wrap up pretty much and uh and for yeah for bridges uh
for folks who want to you know test out zkvm uh you can definitely use if you're going from ethereum
you can definitely use the main uh polygon bridge which is wallet.polygon.technology and it's the same
ui url as the previous bridge you just have to choose zkvm and if you're going from you know
arbitrum or optimism or whatever uh arbitrum or optimism to zkvm you can use uh you can use i
think rhino for rhinophy is there they are adding a bunch of liquidity uh solid team and uh again this
is the third party bridges so there are definitely risks involved uh but you know i think we are in
this market and we already i hope we understand the risk that we're taking and if you can you want to
go from arbitrum or optimism you can use rhinophy there is orbiter there are a bunch of um a bunch
of other bridges maybe rock you want to maybe give a shout out on like what other bridges are there
if you want to if i maybe i missed something uh to go from arbitrum uh and optimism if if you're there
or we can actually wrap up it's pretty much uh done if any of the speakers want to say anything uh
i think we have a couple of minutes uh if not i think we can uh wrap up thank you uh thank you so
much everyone this was a long-winded thing but we promise we will keep this uh coming more and keep
everyone informed and excited and uh educated on why zkvm is uh is the best scaling solution out there
and why of course right now it might not look as cool that okay there are hardly any users but once
the you know mass adoption and like you know once the market starts getting better and then we have
more users more apps uh you'll clearly see why zkvm is important uh for the future of uh blockchain
and future of self-custody and d5 and all these things that will that keep us awake every time
cool thank you thank you so much everyone and see you see you next time
Host
Speaker
Plena Wallet
from
Plena
colexion.io💜
from
Colexion
