I'm really stoked to have you guys today.
We're going to get kicking in a few minutes.
We're just going to add some people up on stage.
And start a little intro song.
And then we're off to the races.
We got space. We got space.
Guys, I'm going to kick it off with a little 80's song.
Unexpected. But you got to love it.
And we'll see you in a few.
Retweet the room as well if you can.
Get some friends in here.
Wow, wow, wow, an absolute head bobbing tune
that I wanted to kick this face off with
because this is a special one.
This is my first show in many, many months.
I'm restarting this the spaces game here for myself. Gotta walk the talk
Yeah, super honored to have you guys with me here today
we're gonna do this every Thursday at 6 p.m. Eastern guys and
I want this to be kind of a work wind down energy, you know, we should have fun
you know, we're living through a generational crypto moment and
Yeah, I just want to have a time during the week where I get to be the dumb guy
invite giga chads and big brains and ask all the dumb questions and
And then learn with you guys and hopefully share those learnings and make sure that some connections happen and
Yeah, obviously we're not alone here we got some co-hosts we've got amazing panelists that came through today
Just a quick how you doing? Check in in with my cause wash. How is it going? My man?
It's going fantastic. That song was a banger. I loved it
I haven't had that in a long long time, but yeah going really well
Pleasure to be here is always a pleasure for me to teach
Especially things related to defy that's particular that's pretty much the sector that I'm most interested in but I'm interested in
Of course anything related to crypto. So yeah real pleasure. And I think this space is gonna be a banger
Love to hear it wise. Tell them just really quickly what you do as well
I think it's super interesting the type of content you create how people can keep tuning in with you
Because you know, you're being humble here
But I love the content you put out and you really really taking good care of your research, right?
So I want to make sure that that word gets out
Very very kind of you say my name's wadj by background. I'm a medical doctor. I've left medicine pretty much
I only work once a week now now I work full-time in crypto
I work for a options protocol so very very like in-depth on in that side of things
But also have my own content. So I am a crypto youtuber. I have weekly videos like multiple times a week
I have a newsletter. I write lots of threads
Pretty much anything to do with on-chain
Crypto I write about it. I make videos about it. I make content about it
I like to think I'm and everything on chain crypto educator
Amazing amazing. Yeah, give this man a sub and let's kick it off with bread bread. My man. How are you doing, bro?
Hey, man. Yeah, thanks for having me. This is actually so why we should have said this when we met up
I'm actually so my my background is medical as well. Although I'm on the technical side
Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah same same journey though. So I don't know if you're familiar with epic
I I work specifically with epic or did with integrations. Anyways
Yeah, similar story where?
Cross over a little bit of health care like wash but been enamored the space and particular in the infrastructure side
and that's where we have a topic here called restaking and that's something I'm particularly interested in because on an infrastructure and like
Just a structural in general level it applies a lot of stuff. So I'm really fascinated ready to get into it
Love it, man. Yeah, really excited to learn about this one. It'll challenge our brains guys
Hopefully you're ready some answers and contributions will also massage the brain and some spots
Maybe filling out some blind spots of our knowledge and it will probably also bring up a lot of new questions
And then already maybe 60 minutes 70 minutes in we're gonna we're gonna come to an end
But yeah in terms of level setting and just house rules real quick guys as we welcome new people in welcome
Welcome, by the way, I see smoky in the audience. Shout out to you. My friend. I see some new speakers joining really really happy
Now in terms of house rules guys, I want this to be a space for after work hours having fun, you know
Really not taking things too seriously, but at the same time put your best foot forward, you know, bring the takes
Bring your true self as well, right? So anything goes free speech unless harmful or blatant disinformation
We don't value that connect with each other
Right like bread and wash had that little bro moment of like hey also been in medicine before
You know, we want that those moments are awesome and we want you guys to shoot DMS to each other
Follow all the panelists for everyone in here. This is what makes space is worthwhile
And then the last two rules just practical stuff if you have to leave this is an airport
just you know, if you got a dip you got a dip no hard feelings just wave goodbye and see you next week and
The last rule is the hot potato rule. So this is something that I encourage everyone to use. Just be ready any time
I love intentional spaces. I love spaces where people are just paying attention to things
If you're looking for a space that lets you multitask and gamble on meme coins, etc. This is not the one for you
You know wash bread and I we're gonna potentially have potato the panelists here to see
You know, what's your contribution on any certain topic? Now, what topics are we gonna cover?
We already mentioned a few and you see it in the title, but wash maybe you can give them a rundown here of what is to
Absolutely. So today we're gonna talk about two main sectors
We're gonna first of all talk about the general state of defy and then in the second half
We're gonna talk particularly about restaking. So in the general state of defy
We're gonna talk a little bit about the TVL amongst different protocols
TVL around different chains. We'll talk about which chains are basically leading the way in the defy space at the moment
We'll talk about things related to stable coins because they play a crucial role in the in the defy
Asset class and then we'll also talk about some of the different sectors within defy not only just restaking but also things related to lending
derivatives real-world assets and also cover some of the different protocols that are kind of capturing this value when it comes to
Restaking part which will be the second half of this space will talk first of all about what is restaking and kind of what I can
I can layer themselves are pioneering some of the different services that can benefit from restaking the benefits to you, of course
How you can basically participate get points get air drops get yields different strategies
But on the other hand, we're going to talk about the risks how to manage those risks as well some of the downsides
Potentially that can get a little bit topical
So that should be exciting and then we'll talk and maybe perhaps everyone's predictions about this space and kind of how things can grow
What we'll cover today. I think otherwise we're pretty much ready to go
Love it, man. I got the notepad out
I'm really curious on how all of this will even affect each as a base asset
But without further ado, we're gonna pass it around the panel. I want to hear, you know, who's here
I'm gonna start with Cody layer 1x. How are you my man? You're a spaces legend, man
I don't know your team owes you back massages because you know, you're carrying the whole team on here
Yeah, I'll I'll I'll definitely forward you to our founder and you can definitely tell him
You know, throw me a couple of bones here and there. No
No, thanks for having us. This is definitely a space. I'm looking forward to hearing about
For those that don't know me. My name is Cody. I'm the chief experience officer at layer 1x
I wish I could say that I was a doctor, but I do have psychology training
It definitely comes in handy
Especially in UI UX design around cognitive behaviors things like that
So whenever you guys are ready to go down some rabbit holes, I'm here for you
But for those that don't know what layer 1x is we are basically a next-gen
Layer 1 blockchain that's fully decentralized
We kind of have a claim to fame with our our flagship and proprietary technology
That focuses on bridgeless interoperability known as x talk
you know that interoperability is kind of a cliche term used in crypto these days, but
Go at the smart contract level. We're able to not only move assets but data and logic
Freely across the IBM and non-ebm blockchains
And so, you know, our ethos is that we don't want to compete with chains. We want to unite chains
we want to unite projects and we want to unite people within crypto and
Basically kind of move towards that full with three vision and future that we're all kind of gaming for
So thanks for having me. I'm excited about being participating
I love it Cody man. Yeah, we're excited to have you here. Do you want to pass it on to the next person?
Let's go with hover I guess
Representing hover here. I'm Eileen one of the co-directors here at hover
I'm here with my co-director Vincent as well who I'll probably be passing it off to you just a spoiler Vincent
So a bit of background about myself
It's kind of fascinating to hear about how many people on this space have a health care background
Because so far in my time in crypto, I haven't met too many just yet. I'm actually a licensed pharmacist myself
to jump into this web3 career about two years ago and
We are a lending protocol that just launched on the kava ecosystem on cosmos
We actually just launched about three weeks ago now
So it's been a pretty exciting time here for us that hover
We recently had a public sale and our full market launch and we have some more exciting announcements to tease probably at the end of this
But yeah, we're really excited to be here to you know, talk about defi. That's our main focus obviously
kind of build sustainability and defi and
putting together like a yield ecosystem that
Vincent will probably be talking about a little bit more after so I'm going to pass it off to co-director Vincent
Hey Vincent, by the way, this was completely unplanned with this whole health care thing
I did not plan for this but nice to have you Vincent
Oh, yeah, I was just thumbs up thumbs up and yeah, we hear you're right
We can hear you but maybe maybe you can't hear Vincent and that's why you thought nothing was happening
Let's have let's have Vincent quickly finish his take and then we'll pass around
Yeah, this week is really bad with this huh like we had to cancel some spaces as well
Otherwise, but hey, you know, it's probably because some new cool updates are coming and then we're all happy again. So that's how it goes
Excellent finance the torch has been passed over to you by
Thank you very much and this space very very
Interesting topic the fight on this taking and we we're excellent finance and I'm KB from Japan
Yeah, and X in finance is a kind of the mutual prototype platform for crypto assets
And our target is a step code holder. That means they can invest our
portfolio or index through
step coins and we provide the love advisor function in the platform and
this is a business model is a
same model of the hedge fund like
Homospeeds and the management fees. Yeah, very
Excited. Thank you very much. I'm sorry. I have only the ten minutes from now and but
Yeah, this yes, thank you
That's all good. Thanks for the intro my man, you know what I'm gonna do
I'm gonna just boot you down to listener and bring you back up and that increases the chances that you can hear everyone on the
Panel, so we're gonna round trip you real quick
Just accept the invite to speak again, and then we're gonna pass to the next person here
The last one left FF4. How's it going, man?
Hey guys, you're going good. You might have to put me down as well after I couldn't hear Vincent, but
Yeah, Twitter's always doing something
Yeah, I'm sure I'm maybe something a little different here. Not a doctor not a defy expert, but we're building
A game or multiple games actually, so we've got t3 play down in the listener audience
Which is the studio and a platform which is going to have a marketplace as well
But it's also building three web three games one of those is if if for which is the the profile on behind today
Which is a first-person shooter?
Yeah, we've got two shooters in a racing game
Lots coming this year and I guess I've I've been in the space since 2020
and kind of started off in the defi side of things and and tokens and learning that and then
Now NFTs took off and gaming came along and here we are
Here we are awesome, yeah, and I mean, you know the financialization of gaming is
It's not a strange topic to you and defi will fit right in there
So I think it it all makes sense at the end and that's why we're here. So yeah guys
One of the starting questions or themes that I'd post in the tweet when I put it out
Was will defi be able to capture attention liquidity versus other trends this cycle?
Look, I gotta be honest. I don't know
I don't know because the thing that captures my attention is Joe Bowden and
and that's where I spent my you know nighttime on and that's where I detail my leftover Solana into and
That's what I do at night, right? But well what will
Come such that I stay up at night to do things like restaking or defi, right?
Like there was one thing in my crypto history that made me do that which was the anchor protocol in Luna
And we all know how that turned out
but of course, you know, I want to properly evaluate and learn more and
I'm probably not doing it any justice right because there's many many exciting trends and
Yeah, we're gonna cover primarily restaking today, but
Yeah, wash. Where should we where should we start this general side of the convo off? I mean, what do you think?
I think a good general place to start is a quick history lesson, right? So back in 2020
I think that's pretty much when we had the start of defi
Back then defi TVL was only around half a billion dollars
I know it sound I say only but things got very very hot very quickly because over the coming two years as we went in towards the
Tail end of 2021 defi TVL did a 500 X from that original
500 million half a billion dollars and so with that 500 X we saw the rise of many many categories including
Dexes lending markets money markets
Bridges honestly so many different categories and of course we did see
Some of them do really well. Some of them do not so well
One of them was the one that we just mentioned with anchor protocol
I think which collapsed around the 5th of may as far as I remember
I think that was a very brutal day for the entire defi space and since then sadly
Uh defi kind of went away a little bit
I think we were in a bad bear market for quite a while and as we went from that moment in time
Probably even about a few months back. I think the bottom of the market really being October 23
We had a good one year and a half of just down trending defi TVL
And just to put it into perspective at the peak of the cycle. We were almost 200 billion in defi TVL
Total value lock. This is essentially a metric that basically represents how much money was in applications on chain
Not all of them are completely defi related, but the vast majority of them were so we went from 200 billion
35 billion that is a massive massive drawdown. We're talking like 80 percent drawdown
75 80 percent drawdown and tip on this that was kind of expected. I mean, I guess we did see the bear market kind of
Have corrections across the board. I think even the likes of bitcoin going from the high 60s all the way down to I believe
15 000 so naturally as that happened you can expect
Defi TVL to go down but over the last maybe six months or so
We've actually seen quite a resurgence actually so going from 35 billion
Just yesterday. We surpassed a hundred billion dollars again, and we're now at 103 billion dollars
Uh, the chart looks incredible
If you look at if you look at TVL over time and so to answer this question
Is defi going to be relevant again?
I think the chart speaks for itself. It's done a 3x already in terms of TVL from the bottom
We're seeing the resurgence of many many sectors across the board
Restaking being one of them which we're going to go into in a lot more detail later
But I think that really just goes to show that defi is not dead people are still using it
And I think there's a lot to explore here
And I think one of the great things that i've particularly noticed is that the quality of applications that we have today
Are so much better than the quality of applications that we had back in last cycle back in 21 when we had the likes of anchor protocol
We now have applications that I can confidently say are two three five times better
And hopefully we can share some of them with you today
Now the first question I want to pose to everyone is tell me your experience with defi today compared to last cycle
Has anyone been trying anything these days?
Um, what did you particularly what do you particularly like about defi today compared to last cycle?
Let's start off with um with a layer one x
I think it was shawn, right?
Cody but close cody. Oh my bad. There was another there is a show
Just a character off. No, no worries. No worries. It's all good. Um
I'll i'll come at it from a from a couple of different angles. The first one is from a ui ux standpoint
Um, you know i've been in crypto probably since 2017 as an investor long before that as a builder and things like that
The uh, it blows my mind that you know
If we look at the last cycle
even over the last six years
Nothing has really changed and just over the last year
It's it's a breath of fresh air to start hearing people start throwing out terms of user experience. Um
Making it so simple that grandma can use it. Um, you know those kind of
uh, those kind of things and and so for me
It's nice to see that these
Defi projects are actually starting to focus on
on that user experience focus on
Um creating an ecosystem rather than a pump and dump
uh type type of uh thing and
From the other angle of it is also
Coming out from from like a a building standpoint is that uh, and I mentioned this earlier on on one of the amas
Bull runs are great. A lot of money comes in
A lot of people get the capital just try new things throw stuff out there
Um, it's kind of mixed with a lot of copy rinse and repeat uh projects. Um, but in reality
The the the bear market is also really good too because that's where battle testing comes into play and you can kind of see
What works and what doesn't work and what will be a long long-term project?
Um, and you know, there were a couple of defi projects that I thought would make it but didn't end up making it. Um, and
All because it just lost user adoption it lost
Liquidity it I mean and and it goes to show that it's something that you just can't create and throw out there
And expect it to just live forever, right? You've got to put in the time and effort to keep cultivating a culture
You know more growth more stability
Uh, if anybody knows anything about business, it's your business doesn't thrive on one source of income
You gotta you gotta create a a revenue
You got to have at least two to three different revenue streams coming into your business if you want it to thrive through the
through the bad times and
Be profitable through the through the good, but that's kind of my take on it
Cody, can I ask you something?
And then I also want to route this to the other builders during that kind of drawdown wash mentioned that tvl
Up until october 2023. How was that for you guys to like just build through it?
Did you lose hope at some point or were you just like easily patient?
Um, it really just depends. I mean are you are you referring to us building out like layer 1x or just other
DeFi project kind of things
Yeah, you're just you're a broader infrastructure builder, right? So perhaps it doesn't apply as much
But yeah in general in general you obviously
Uh, or you want to collaborate with the DeFi people right in the space?
Yeah, 100% and and I mean i've I I do consulting with quite a few different
Projects in in in crypto and and have helped them like revamp their existing ecosystems into new things
You know bear that bear market, right?
You know, if you look at the difference between a DeFi project versus like a layer one
And let's break it down by FOMO, right and let's look at the psychology behind the FOMO
FOMO is used in two different angles here when it FOMO for DeFi
You know the mean coins and different things like that and there's a couple of layers in there as well
But if you look at DeFi as a general
You know, it's all about community. It's all about hype. It's all about
Um this sense of being belonging to a specific group or you know, wearing a badge of honor kind of thing, right?
Um, you know like with a layer one like we are it's not necessarily it is
Hype, but that hype is around the technology
It's it's uh, it kind of attracts a whole different
Of investor that is more focused on
Uh the long-term play, right?
It's the the maxi kind of guys that jump in and are gonna hold this coin for a very long time because they know where
The potential of where it could go
Um versus mean coins, you know, like I said, there's many different levels there
And so as you're kind of designing and you're kind of building
Uh consulted and buy some projects that are
You know they're they're one-sided. They're just there just to kind of
Throw a pet out there and you know make a few bucks and and
Just because it's for fun, right?
Um, whereas some other projects that I work with and those are the ones I really like working with
Is that they're trying to create an ecosystem that will keep the tbl inside of their ecosystem
And incentivize their people to keep keep going even during through a bear market, right?
Um, it's all about that, uh dcaing into their project and and but it's always being able to come out on top
So that the user doesn't the user fills the support but also feels that they are
Getting that intrinsic value from from like restaking or you know, locking up their coin for an extremely long time
Um, and I think that there are those good projects out there and that are trying to find
Um between their projects between making money
The and also just kind of having that longevity thing
And so it really is different but you have to build for the market conditions
No matter which kind of project you're in
And first and foremost you always got to build for user experience because if you make it too complex
You're going to shoot yourself in the foot no matter how good your your um technology is or or your your mousetrap is
You won't even get off the ground
I think that's a solid take of you know having to build for the market conditions because otherwise the user experience
Imagine how it suffers after if the market turns down and things are just not sustainable
I remember when crypto.com rugged me with the matt damon advert of fortune favors the brave and then I was in that tier
Where they gave me that five percent rebate on any crypto purchases and then afterwards the market turned down
You know, I felt like I felt like crypto jesus paying with my prepaid card and only paying like
You know 95 percent of every price because I got it back in crow tokens
But then at the end when they shut down that tier and they drastically reduced their rewards the token price cratered everything went to shit
It was horrible. It's not sustainable. They found out and we had to pay for it
And and that's what it is. That shouldn't be the experience
Um, however, I wanted to quickly pass to you. Um as as d5 builders as well
Uh, just on that take of how the drawdown period felt in case you were building back then already
Actually really here for the last cycle
It's it's definitely been an interesting
Um time to have been building for about the past year or so
Where you know, we've been able to take the time and really do our research to
To build something that solves existing problems
Um, you know examine what didn't work last time
solve that and build upon it because like as we were building out however, we didn't want to be just another learning protocol, so
um, one of the things that we found was most learning protocols
Are not very sustainable and by that I mean, you know, most of their token value is directly tied to their emissions or their governance
Our solution to that was to kind of build our token into our protocol operations
So we introduced a staking program to really incentivize our community our users to
stake our token and then get benefits from that like rebates off of their lending and borrowing fees for example, um
that's just one example of you know, like
Being able to see what others have done before
And then building upon it and I think that's one thing that's just really cool about building in the space
There's this collaborative nature, you know establishing partnerships
um, you know being able to
to build together for a common goal
And that's something that i've been able to examine just in my time here
Which has pretty much entirely been during the fair market
I know my co-director can expand more
On that if I can pass that on to him. I don't know if you can hear me. Can you hear me?
Dude so i'm totally confused because vincent is not even on the panel on my ui like I don't even know it's I hear you
But most people don't hear you vincent, I gotta be honest watch don't hear you
Yeah, I want to gradually move it over to
Restaking guys because this is something that I think has the potential for a renaissance
Uh in the space where people like me
Can get really excited about it partly because of the size of the institution and and you know
The size of eigenlayer that it has become like with the recent round raised that just brings attention to you, right?
But then also i've heard people refer to it as you know
Institutional degeneracy is now being enabled through this restake and I just want to understand a lot about it
I honestly just want to learn so
Maybe um, yeah vincent you reconnected. Does it work now? How's it going?
Show him it's still requesting. Oh, wait. No, is he still requesting?
Yeah, no for me it's it's just wrecked I can't I can't accept him
If you can accept him bread, that'd be cool
Yeah, I just attempted we'll see if he gets him up
What how did you get into
Eigenlayer because I I remember us talking about
It months ago and and now it's just kind of become a bigger thing with the recent raise, etc
So maybe you can share your journey into it
I'm trying to accept there vincent. Okay stomach up. Yeah, I mean my
We're going to pass to you in a second
We're just going to have bread share his his og story of how he got into
Restake in an eigenlayer real quick because if there's anyone who's balls deep into this it's bread. Yeah
I'm sure there's a lot of people up here doing the same. I mean for me, honestly, it was just i'm a
I'm a big listener of podcasts. So in my time
Listening to podcasts around the like the bleeding edges current developments of a lot of the space
One of them that came up was eigenlayer
Interviews talking about what the project was and kind of the design space it opened up
So it was honestly just like a couple podcasts and there's usually a skewed technical
Yeah, if you're like bell curve is another big as a big one
Bankless that was the one I that got me into this space
Alex research stuff like that
Had them on basically just as a what the hell are you doing or who are you what like what is this?
Podcast and then as sri ram who's the grader of eigenlayer talked about his his journey into the space and what he was actually developing with that
Uh, yeah, he just it really fascinated me with me or fascinated me because it's effectively an entirely new design space
It allows you to embed everything that was externalized outside of ethereum into ethereum
Leveraging their security which is the like the biggest thing that it can ship out. So it's creating a marketplace for security
And whenever you're creating something that's such a base level like that you just it's infinite possibilities and then
Hearing how scared the ethereum foundation was of it. Well as far as like implications go
like positive negative that's what made me realize like the upper bound of it was limitless because
Like other things that have been emergent in a economic ecosystem like mev, right whenever ethereum was created they did not anticipate
Mev being a thing and for everyone who doesn't know what mev is your device kind of kind of crosses over there
It's just extracting value outside or out of the system
Indirectly but directly right that's value that wasn't meant for you or for a particular thing
but someone can see something arbitrage it and that is
Extracted value out of a given transaction on a transaction
That was something that was emergent in the ecosystem that just kind of happened because someone uh found an opportunity
Sri Ram did the same thing with eigenlayer and restaking he saw an opportunity is developed it
No one knows where it's going to go and because it's so wide sweeping
They were talking about nerfing it before it would even go live
So you knew you knew it had a lot of implications if if those kind of conversations are coming down the pipe from from the actual ethereum
Awesome man. Yeah, i've just linked down the podcast you were referencing i'm gonna pin it up top
Uh, i'm not gonna try pronounce
Uh the founder's name you you dared to
Uh, but I don't want to butcher it
Um, but yeah vincent since you're kind of like back on stage now
We just want to do two things in audio check and also
Hear from you. Have you played with something like restaking? Is this something that you're interested in?
Yeah, uh, let's do a soundcheck first. Hopefully you guys can hear me now
Awesome, that sounds good. Uh, yeah, just to follow up on my last comment about crypto.com. Um
I was actually from there. So
You're joking. Yeah, no, I I led institutional sales at uh crypto.com covering uh
So yeah, I was actually there right. Uh, I actually came on board right when they had to met the even commercial. So
Oh my god, I can't believe i'm meeting you
So, yeah, that was really funny because my my first day was uh, maybe like uh
two weeks before that commercial came on
so I guess like even from the desk like we were just ramping up a lot of the um
Ramping a lot of the uh market makers and uh the hedge fund trading
Activities and it just kind of like skyrocketed once that happened
So yeah, like it was uh, you know, it was good for institutions and I guess like until they changed rebates
But it definitely was uh, yeah, it was a very frothy time, uh during that time. So
Yeah, I could I definitely can relate. I mean I saw the card now and they're uh slowly taking away the benefits
So we'll see how that goes
Bro vince and the other day I logged in and it starts sending me
Hey, if you stake 30 000 euros of crow you get apple gear like a macbook or whatever and i'm like not again friends
I'm not gonna fall for it
That's so funny because I went the other way and I was like wow
Maybe this is time for me to upgrade to uh icy white
Look it's good. They didn't die. Um, and that's what matters in the space. Uh, if you don't die you stick around you're doing something good
um, I want to pass it to wash because wash is prepped a little bit of a
Of a background on restake and so uh wash over to you
Yeah, I thought it would be a good idea just because some of you guys in the space may not
Understand like what restaking is and kind of like where the value comes from
So i'm just going to give you a bit of backstory a bit of context and hopefully this should help to clarify it so
One of the reasons why everyone loves ethereum is not because it's super fast and super scalable like salana
It's not because of that. It's because of security
Ethereum is probably one of the most secure chains that exist today
part of the reason is is because the shared number of validators, but also the
Economic security that ethereum provides now basically how that works is
Uh, if you want to be involved in becoming a validator and in doing so you basically help to secure the network
You have to lock up 32 eth and in doing so you are able to become a validator
You're able to secure the network secure and verify those transactions and obviously you get block rewards for doing so
It's um, it's basically how you can earn some income as well. And currently that is around four or five percent a year
Currently there we are around over a million validators as well
So ultimately that means that with 30 million eth that's currently staked in the entire network
that gives you an economic security level of
Now the way that proof of stake works is let's say if you wanted to attack the network you need to achieve a 51 percent
supply of that stake network
now the question that i'm
Hypothetically posing to you is who on earth is going to be able to get 51 percent of that?
124 billion dollars of secured eth at the moment, you know, that's like 60 billion dollars of eth
No one is able to get that ever. Uh, I think there's it's far too decentralized
I think if anyone even tried to attempt to buy that amount of eth
Uh, the price of eth would probably go towards infinity
I think we'd probably run out of eth on all centralized exchanges on all decentralized exchanges
There just wouldn't be enough going around and so that is one of the reasons why people love ethereum
It's very very very secure who's going to be able to attack ethereum. It costs 60 billion plus
Um, and so that that's created like this incredible industry around staking. So we know that ethereum is very very secure
The applications that are on top of ethereum don't benefit from that same security
So whilst ethereum the chain itself is secure the oracle that helps to bring data to ethereum or
The the lending market that basically is built on ethereum or the bridge that helps connect ethereum to other chains
That doesn't inherit that same security that the ethereum chain has
All of these other services and products have to spin up their own validators. They have to spin up their own services
And this isn't uh as good because how many other protocols and products have a 60 billion dollar security mechanism
Unfortunately, they don't and so what eigenlay is proposing is this idea of shared security where you not you take this
You take the security of ethereum
And you use it to help secure some of these other services these other middleware services that can be anything from
From an oracle to a bridge to a data availability network to even another layer one chain altogether
You can basically take this ethereum use it as economic security not to not only secure the main ethereum chain
But also to opt into these other services and secure them too with this economic security
And part of the reason why it works so well is because the price of ethereum is very high
And so if you were to take this 124 billion dollars
And now you basically opt into some of these other services that you can secure
You now have an oracle that needs 60 billion dollars worth of attack vector in order to kind of compromise
As well as a bridge or a lending market or whatever services opt in
And so this this this idea from eigenlay really refers to a shared level of security
It basically helps to improve the security model of all of these other products and one of the reasons why people love this
Normally if you're like a brand new oracle or a brand new bridge or a brand new product like building on top of ethereum
In order to spin up your own security you often have to give away your governance tokens
You have to incentivize loads of stuff now
If you just if you just opt into eigenlay, you don't have to do that
You don't have to give away as much of your of your tokens or or things like that in terms of rewards because
You're getting the main ethereum block rewards from staking itself
So it helps these protocols save and they can use that money elsewhere for better services
And so that's pretty much the idea of eigenlayer. It's basically taking
Ethereum security which comes from ethereum staking and basically using it to secure as many different services as you probably want
I see vincent has his hand up. So i'm going to pass that over to him
Uh, and if there's any other questions about that, please ask
Yeah, I mean this is really cool
Was pretty much farming these points on uh, restate uh on uh, eigenlayer and there's like a bunch of other ones as well
And I guess for me, you know
Like i'm more of like an ape first ask questions later type of guy
And I definitely understand the concept of being able to utilize ethereum security for a lot of these middleware products
But i'm kind of curious on like, you know, plus collecting the points itself like we have a token
Is this like a governance token? What role does this token or whatever this or whatever i'm collecting points for play?
in the whole restaking ecosystem
Yep, for sure. For sure. So, um, I think I think there's two different types of like restaking
Points and things that you can basically interact with at the moment
One of them is like the main eigenlayer app itself
And this is essentially where you can deposit some of your eith for eith staking tokens
And you can essentially restake them
So it's already staked eith and you're staking it again
And you're basically opting in to secure other other networks now you're getting eigenlayer points for doing that
And the idea is potentially eigenlayer points will become an eigenlayer token
So the question that probably going to be related to governance
It's going to be deciding which services get accepted into the eigenlayer ecosystem is going to be
Related to things like slashing which is what happens if something bad happens
It might be related to payment conditions like how much you're going to get for opting into these different services
A whole range of things like that and mostly the the token is probably going to play a pivotal role in that
Now the other elements that I think vincent is talking to is about liquid restaking now when you restake on eigenlayer
You're locking up your tokens
Liquid restaking is basically giving you an iou that basically represents your position
In eigenlayer and you can then take that over to a lending market
Maybe you want to go to hover and you want to provide it as a loan and you want to borrow some stable coins against it
It basically unlocks extra capital extra capital efficiency for you to do whatever you want in the world of defi
And you can get leverage that way you can do a whole range of different things
Which I won't go into just now
But the idea behind them is like you're farming them for points and again, hopefully you will get an airdrop
Once those tokens do come out
That's very good insight and I was hoping you'd say that
Because now we're kind of exploring, you know being able to use this restake to eat or as collateral and
The name the name of the protocol was on the top of my head. I mean, I think it was called zerkit
But yep, they're effectively
But they're effectively earning you, you know, like staking vpr restaking vpr eigenlayer points lrt points and zerkit points all for just
Being able to utilize your lead on their platform
So i'm just kind of curious on you know
What kind of effect that would have when you're using
This restake to eat to stake it somewhere else and you know
Potentially looping it in a lending protocol like what happens to that that that asset now?
Does it become something where it's like a Lehman brother scenario?
I think this is certainly what a lot of people are talking about when it comes to when it comes to some of the risks with it
I mean, ultimately you're getting an iou of an iou
And then you you're you're taking that to another level when you're taking it to another protocol you're increasing your smart contract risk
Um, you you now have a liquidation risk if you've got to learn against it
like the risk goes on and on and on well, I should say up and up and up and
But obviously the yields go up with that as well
So there's a fine balance. I think for everyone everyone's risk profile is going to be very different
But right now it's obviously very lucrative and people potentially aren't aware of like some of the bad things that can happen
Now I know bread wanted to say something earlier. So i'm gonna just let him
Add anything if he wanted to say anything, but we can talk about the risks and some of the downsides to to restaking as well
Yeah, i'll do one note on the risk thing just
So we can come back to it later a lot of the things even at that first layer that we're talking about liquid restake tokens
there's a lot of variable risk even within that from the different providers because the person that you're
You're giving your eth over to that is doing the liquid restaking the liquid custodian of your your
your staked eth effectively, right and the AVS's that they opt into which translates to the
Additional slashing conditions that they're opting into to earn the yield that would pay
The dividends on their actual restake tokens like provider to provider is very different
And that's something that a lot of people just assume every LRT from renzo or swell or ether files the exact same across the board
And we're going to see this ecosystem continue to spin up where different LRTs have different risk
Profiles associated to them and different yields because they opt into different AVS's that give them different yield and so when we're gonna get slash
And yeah, so that's that's something that's kind of hidden. Everyone just thinks LRT LRT LRT, but
that's going to be something that gets a lot of clarity over the next few months, but
Yeah, no move all or watch this actually crushing it on all that stuff
A few of the things that I wanted to point out
As just like key distinctions or nuances with with what eigenlayers doing one is
It like they're just creating a marketplace for security and i'll actually be and I'm trying to theorize on what the token might actually do
And offer security as a service kind of thing
So like they're going to be unopinionated in that sense, so I wouldn't expect it to do that
I do think it'll be something governance related like uh, like he was thinking
um, and then another thing talking about uh,
How networks are spun up and it being extremely costly
Which it absolutely is and you want to get that security from ethereum
But it's extremely costly because there is no aggregate market for what security costs like you there's nowhere
You can go to say I have to admit x amount of tokens to know I can I can create or establish a secure
sufficiently decentralized network, so
Like now what eigenlayer is providing is a central hub where all of these things can come together and you can actually
Have a market price for security
So it should drive down the level of emissions that these networks have to do that giving away their governance token
whatever that's effectively part of their company, so it's
um, that's why it's it's a key distinction or a level up for the ecosystem is because now you actually have a market for security where
Everything was was uh, isolate isolated and disparate before um, and yeah, so that's a little bit of an upgrade
Yeah, this is where i'm kind of interested in seeing, you know the risk profiles and
Very similar to like a moody's back in lego way
Like being able to have that and be able to classify that, you know, like potential defire infrastructure risk for
Restaking assets is something that I would love to be able to see i'm not sure if
You have any resources to be able to do that
But I would love to be able to you know, check that out because I think for us
Operating a lending protocol as well. We want to be
We want to be aware of you know restaking risks and being able to offer these assets up on our on our lending protocol
and for me, um, since i'm also fairly
You know, like i'm just a point farmer on on the whole restaking meta
I would love to be able to you know, be well educated and I think that a lot of people here would also
You know be be very interested in that as well
Yeah, i'll just chip in that the conversations sort of moved along
A lot but I guess tying almost some of this defi side too now with
With uh, what eigenlayers doing to fight?
if we compare the two eras from
You know 2021 where everyone was sort of they were farming yields like yield farming and now it seems like it's just all about airdrop farming
Eigenlay is doing but essentially it's just
Another way for people to farm extra yield
And if you're looking at it from the base level of why would somebody who doesn't already have east stakes somewhere
Why would they get involved or someone's going to say?
Well, the benefit is you're going to get extra tokens or these points that could be eardrops and and what's the risk?
Well, that's like kind of what we're talking about now where it's sort of uncharted territory
And it's only like how far does it go?
I guess is like what happens when eigenlay does drop a token and everyone's like cool
We've farmed that one onto the next one and everyone else is like shifting all the like all the cvls
Just kind of cycling around until when like until there's a problem like one of these contracts does get
Compromised to some degree like it's all an experiment, but I feel like that is from
From the basic level of somebody who maybe doesn't have the east staked already like looking at this is why would I care?
That's kind of it. It's just almost another way of airdrop farming
Yeah, I think it's it's hard not to argue that as an extension of that I think the
some of the the and they're obviously um
um incentivized to say this but like if you if you really think about what this stuff is going to enable and how this
ecosystem is going to progress if you are already staking though, which is as
What I already pointed out is a huge amount of people
Why wouldn't you already or why wouldn't you take it one step further for incremental yield to do a little bit more to then?
Basically take over what the like if you look over defies plugged into right lst's or lido right now takes over basically everything
Right and that's that's what a lot of these pools are done because people want to be able to have a little bit
Defy on top of their staking yield so they go pay off for that
And then now if you can just go a little bit further and do liquid restaking token
you may see a drain from lst's or migration from lst's to lrt's and I think this is where everyone is starting to get a
little worried because now and
Fred you meant that institutional degeneracy. That's kind of what I i've called this for a little bit
It's just because like I think we're gonna see some people go down this path and
Whenever you can just opt into one more thing for just a little bit more yield
you know, you're always going to have humans that go a little bit further down the spectrum because
We have people that are trading, you know, geo geo bode every other day, which you know, I partake
But like people go down the risk curve because it's one it's a little bit more whatever and they just want to keep tacking
stuff on and eventually it turns into the
How many of you guys play video games?
But you have the pc game where you have so many mods added on to it where it's no longer anything resembling the original game you got
thomas the tank engine flying through the sky to do whatever and the game breaks because you've just tacked on too many things and
That's what people are going to do when they opt into these additional slashing conditions with restaking and say oh just one more
Just one more just one more just one more next thing, you know, you have a 20 30 percent
That's not sustainable some big slashing condition happens in a you know
Then you have a security issue on ethereum itself because maybe a huge portion is covered in that
Go ahead cody I love my bread that analogy was very vivid that metaphor is very vivid in my brain just now
Sounds like you play fortnite
Um, no, I I think you bring up a good point. I I like what you were saying
Like you're you're adding all these mods onto this game
Um, you know for for me when i'm designing
And helping people evaluate their ecosystem
It's it's interesting because
You know the term think outside the box is such an over cliched
A term that's used in marketing and business in my opinion because and here's the reason why
um, I believe this is because
They they look for a quick fix
Which is usually an out-of-the-box solution to just kind of put a band-aid over a certain
component inside of their ecosystem or their flow of things, right and so
They don't look at the long tail effect of how that affects their their whole user experience and and things and so for me it's it's
understanding it to your your
Your objectives and building the box bigger
Rather than trying to just get a quick solution. That's an out-of-the-box solution
You know that that way it's more scalable
It's more sustainable and you know, I can't remember if it was vincent or not talking about like, you know
If somebody rugs or somebody's uh protocol gets exploited and it it creates a domino effect for everybody else
um, because in my opinion, it's it's those things that are just kind of those bolt-on mods, right and
It's like it if you want to collaborate and kind of build an ecosystem that kind of protects each other
You're expanding the box at that point. Hopefully that that made sense
But that's how I think in my design world
It does and and maybe it's the time to talk a little bit about the security the risk side of things I mean
Maybe before that, you know from a user level
wash or bread, maybe you guys know but
Will it be is it easy for me to go ahead and let's say deposit?
Ste or cbe or whatever it is and what is it like? Yeah mobile app an eigenlayer app
How does that how does it work?
Um, it's very very easy actually, um
I'm, not sure about about mobile, but I think you probably can especially now with the advancement of mobile wallets
with eigenlayer itself right now the deposits are capped and they
Uh periodically increase the caps in order to kind of grow a little bit more sustainably
Um, even despite that they are the number two app in d5 in terms of tvl
I think they're around 12 billion dollars worth of eth deposited already. Uh, and that's with them taking it easy
So, uh, I just wonder like when they when they increase the caps, like how quick is this gonna grow? That is mad
I think uh, I think it's gonna skyrocket
Especially as the price of eth goes up the value of the tvl also goes up massively
Um, so eigenlayer at the moment is capped. However, you can participate in the liquid restaking side of things
We were talking about that earlier with getting all of these airdrops and points
Uh, there are a number of different liquid restaking, uh protocols that you can use
Um, I think that I can just basically rattle off like the top four
Maybe and everyone can potentially have a look at them in their own time
So I think number rank number one is ethify
Again, all of these applications you can just simply go to them. They have a very simple like deposit
Interface you just deposit your your eth or your eth derivative directly into the interface
And they'll often return you with the liquid restaking token
So you'll find the liquid restaking token comes into your wallet after you've deposited. So with ethify it's eeth
They have a 3 billion dollars deposited already, which is unbelievable
Uh, there's puffer finance as well
Uh number three there's renzo and number four there's kelp dao now, there are many many others as well
I believe there's 10 plus different liquid restaking protocols and it feels like a new one is coming out every single week
But I'd say like those four probably the the biggest
I think all of them are close to over a billion dollars in total value locked
So clearly like quite a significant amount of value there
And I think if if there were to be an exploit to either of them
It would cause shockwaves shockwaves, you know across the entire industry really
But as I mentioned, they're fairly easy and intuitive to use go to the applications
They have a simple interface you just deposit and you and you'll be returned with the liquid restaking token
Which you can then take over into other forms of defi like a lending market and loan out and borrow some stable coins against it
Which you can use for whatever you want. Uh, so there's a whole range of different strategies there
But yeah time for your question fred that's pretty much it
Love it, man. I pin it up top for everyone. Uh wants to revisit this after the fact
Um, i'm taking a fuck ton of notes guys. So this is awesome
and uh, yeah, let's let's um, maybe talk a bit about
I think bread when when we spoke, um
You mentioned that you're
That you're not only using eigenlayer but some others
Is there like competition coming up?
Have they sort of been pioneering? Like how does it work because yeah, they're definitely pioneering
But yes, there are some other copy paste copy pasta protocols coming up across other chains
Even not even just on ethereum, which is normal right anytime you see an innovation
Because we are an open public ledger people see that stuff and they they want to iterate
They want to make some changes. They want to do a copy paste all those things
What I was referring to i've i've gone all in on eigenlayer specifically though and you know watch I was mentioning some of the
LRT is atop that I like anytime there's an emerging ecosystem as this is
There's always incentive programs that are that are issued by all of them
And and Vincent was talking about some of the points and how you can kind of look at the venn diagram and find the the perfect
Keyhole to put through that gets you points in like six different protocols at the same time
I'm doing that and bleeding over into d5 with balancer balancer pool has like a tri pool between all of the lrt's
Are several of them so you can just get one deposit in there and earn across several of the lrt's plus eigenlayer simultaneously
So i'm mostly sticking to the leader leader leads and almost all these things and I mean we're talking 12 billion dollars in that thing
So it's it's clearly the leader
And I want to have as much exposure as I can to that as possible
while also just being smart with with where I place it and get some overlap to other protocols that are trying to
The actual d5 ecosystem atop eigenlayer because I I think I strongly believe lrt's will will overtake all of what lst's already have
just to add on that point like one of the one of the cool things that i've noticed actually is that
Even staking directly or I should say restaking directly within eigenlayer
Speculate on the idea of getting airdrops from some of the services and middlewares that will eventually opt into eigenlayer in future
I recently got an airdrop not too long ago called altlayer, which was specifically airdrop to eigenlayer stakers themselves
And so I think like there is benefit
There are benefits to doing that and not chasing like the most d gen yield possible
Sometimes just going with like the winners can still reward you very handsomely
And not remember like even in eigenlayer you're still earning staking yield
You still have exposure to eth you're still getting eigenlayer points and these potential airdrops from other services as well
so it's still very lucrative and sometimes I guess finding a balance between like
Your your safety and your d gen is like a little bit tricky
But I I think um, there's potentially some balance there in the middle
Yeah, when you said balance, um, I really lost excitement uh wash so i'm out
So, um, I wanted to um, ask, uh some of the other speakers, um, you know, are you restaking at the moment and if so like
Where are you restaking? Is it predominantly on eigenlayer itself or is it with the liquid restaking protocols?
And if so, why did you choose that particular one?
Wash i'm i'm waiting for uh, when is the next cap going to be increased? Do you know that roughly?
They often um do mention it on their twitter, right?
I haven't actually seen it recently, but it probably will happen in the next month or so
They usually do it like every every six weeks or eight weeks. I notice that the caps increase
And often what happens is on the day of the of the caps increasing
There's a massive gas war because everyone is just trying to get in at the same time
Uh, the the gas prices shoot up to like 150 200 and then they settle down a little bit
So you do have an opportunity to get in there and before before they close
But over the last um, the last few times where the caps have increased they're filled within one or two days
So there's a lot of excitement and demand behind it
Would you say let's say a thousand bucks? Is that a good amount to start off with?
Is there some sort of a recommendation that anyone who's done it before can give?
I think it's hard to give recommendations
Because like capital is going to be valued differently to every single person individually
You know a hundred dollars to what some person might be quite a lot and maybe ten thousand dollars to another person might not be so much
So I think it's really hard for me to say that however, I will say like with the state of ethereum gas fees
Participating with less than let's say a thousand dollars may not make sense
Unless you try to do it at a time when the gas fees were low. So when america's usually sleep
Um, i'd say i'd say that's probably what I would do ff4s put their hand up. So, please
Say what you'd like to say
Yeah, I just on this and this is probably a mistake I made was when gas was low i've actually split my
my the cross for wallets on just an eigen layer and so
um, I mean collectively it's probably
Maybe just over a thousand a thousand dollars an eighth
But that could be an issue like you're saying depending on what the requirements are
To be eligible for any of these airdrops, but just going back to that recent one the outlay
Do you do you know what that requirement was because then maybe that would be?
Um a benchmark for those on those moving forward
Uh, I believe it was for those who had around 800 eigen layer points and you can see how many points you have in the eigen layer
Oh nice, so it is based on points that you've got at the time
and and for reference you get points based on
uh two categories a the amount of eth that you have restaked and b the amount of time that you've had your eth restaked so
Um, if you're someone who's staked for maybe six months
You're going to get a decent amount of points accumulating over time that way
And similarly if you're someone who has like 100 eth or 50 eth like a big whale
Again, you'll get lots of points that way too. So it kind of rewards both, you know time and capital
Gents ladies, I know, uh, we're closing in on time
I said 60 to 75 minutes or so and we've learned a lot the notepads are full
Um, i've tried to pin every bit of alpha on the uh jumbotron here for people to look at after the fact
Um, I want to do a little quick outro around maybe there's something exciting coming up with with everyone
You know just shout that out here so that people know where to follow you and how to keep in touch
And and then we're going to close it out with maybe another 80 song maybe another 70 song who knows?
Uh, waz you have your mic open. What's what's up? I wanted to ask one quick question, right? I want everyone's prediction as well
What do you think eigenlayer total value locked will end up being at the end of the cycle?
And secondly, how much do you think eigenlayer could potentially be worth in terms of a fully diluted valuation?
So i'll go first. I think like this sector could end up being 100 billion dollars
Um, and I think eigenlayer itself could be potentially worth half of that like 50 billion dollar valuation
I think that would cement it as like one of the top 10 what top 20 coins
But i'm interested to hear like what everyone else's predictions are. Maybe i'm a bit too bullish on it
But waj is there a token confirmed with this?
No, there isn't a token confirmed, but I think uh, it's it's almost I mean i'd like i'd i'd put my
I'd put my money on one coming
Well, I mean yeah, look it's crypto. There's points, you know, there's investors
I don't know. Yeah kind of an arbitrum situation. Let's be honest
All right. All right. Well
Look you guys you said that there's uh a lot more interest than there's currently the supply of this opportunity
It's hard to believe that there's any chance that
This is not a top 20 thing
It's definitely going to be a top 50 thing by the way, it's it's looking
With all the the let's say copy pasta and clones and other innovations that this brings up
It's exciting. I I don't dare to make predictions on this because i'm also the
The most smooth brand guy in the room on this. So
Yeah, I think it's exciting bread. What do you gotta say?
Yeah, I mean we're talking and taking over liquid staking tokens
I mean lido's sitting there at 38 billion right now forward things have gotten crazy
Uh, I think with eath price appreciation, which honestly like if if it's sitting at 10 bill right now
And you think ethereum is going to do a two to three x from here in the bull
Then you're already looking at you know
20 to 30 billion just in the eath that it already has just in
Pure value accrual over that time period and then if you get etf
And then if you get a mature ecosystem where people are coming in here to get additional
Additional yield. Yeah, I think 50 bill is the easiest easiest number I've thrown out
I think it can get weird super weird if because if there's one thing that traditional finance likes
They get bricked up over yield my man
The thing that they can just pour money into and then get a little bit more yield and a little bit more yield
That's what I was referring to with institutional degeneracy
It's people that are coming in in size and go I can put this thing into a spreadsheet and then come out with you know
Whatever numbers I want that justify me to bid it even higher just for that two three four percent extra
Yeah, it's going 50 bill easy
Cody do you want to wager wager I guess here towards question?
You know, this kind of reminds me of the nca march madness tournament
You know, you can go in with all these stats and stuff, but there are so many different variables. It's hard to say. Um
I I suppose is right me to get like uh, go go 50 billion in one dollar
Yeah, yeah, i'll go 50 and i'll just go one dollar. No, i'm just kidding
No, I I think some of your guys's assumptions are are good. I don't like to assume
Because uh, you know what it means, but yeah, but I think you guys uh, I think you guys are hitting it on the head there
But uh, yeah, I just think that it'll be interesting to watch where it goes for sure
Uh flight force over to you
I think it's if we went and looked at it now
And said each each triples and even if nothing else gets added to eigen layer and you're you're at 30 plus bill
The main variable I guess is how much of that?
Tvl disappears to another protocol as soon as that pro that ear drop does happen if there is a token
How much of that can they retain? I think there will definitely be some leakage
There's no way that they hold everything
But if they become, you know top dog in in this area and like what everyone's mentioned all the institutional degens
This is where they are happy and feel safe
Then I think you're at least 30 bill. Um, so that would be my guess
Certainly could be worth it to play around with it
You know curiosity has not killed the cat in crypto curiosity is what makes you feel alive in crypto
So, you know, let's take that with us. Um
Yeah, I still want to do the quick outro outro round. Uh, is something coming up guys layer 1 x cody
What's what's coming up with you guys? What do you want to tell the people?
Yeah, so rtge is uh, actually launching on april 2nd. Um, and so
There was alpha dropped last night that we are doing a massive airdrop. So i'll drop some alpha for you on that
We're giving away up to a million dollars in l1x coins
Please be sure to follow us. Uh on our twitter account
uh for the start time of that airdrop campaign and uh
Kind of come over and learn what l1x is all about and get rewarded at the same time
So thanks for having this. This is a great, uh topic tonight and uh, i'll definitely be back for sure
Thank you cody yeah guys you you heard it here, uh layer 1x follow them around
There's an airdrop coming and the info is coming out on the twitter
So yeah excited for that the way that you're connecting with others on I don't know how many panels every week
I think it's super inspiring and I love to see you community build. So definitely going to stay tuned for that
Um flight force over to you
Well the first thanks for having us it's been really good uh listening and chatting and learning from all of you
Everyone's had so much good value to add
So so thanks for that and I guess yeah, if you if you're into gaming then come check us out
We've got t3 play in the audience
Ff4 is the account here, which is our first person shooter. That's the the flagship game. We've got a playable demo
That's free to download. We've got a multiplayer coming and a token a platform
A platform-wide token coming
So keep an eye out for that lots of exciting things and heaps of developments. This is kind of
It easily going to be our biggest year. So thanks again, and we'll hopefully chat to you all soon
Thank you, man. Yeah, love to hear it big years is is what we care about
Watch bread. Thank you. So guys. Thank you guys so much for co-hosting, man
like, uh, I think everyone here really really enjoyed and uh, I can't wait to do this again and
Yeah, any any words from you guys to end this off?
Uh, no, thank you for having me. Um
Education is one of my favorite things to do, especially when it comes to anything related to crypto really
So always a pleasure. I'd always be down to do many many more spaces
You can find me on twitter. Of course. I have a newsletter
I make videos on youtube multiple times a week
Covering anything from eigenlayer to the latest developments in the space so you can go and check me out there
Um and follow on some of the content that i'm doing there
So yeah, I just want to say thank you fred and thank you to everyone else who was here as well. Really enjoyed it
I was mentioning the brain massaging aspect earlier at the beginning of the space and you definitely took care of a good load there
To explain some concepts in ways that you know, an office can really wrap their head around. So I thank you for that
Yeah, man, thanks for having me, um, it's just great to be up here
Let's meet we'll talk about this stuff
Certainly too much time in the social circles. Not enough time in the technical circles
So this is a nice breath of fresh air and yeah, good good panel
Cool, man, let's run it back guys. I'm going to put down a tune here. If there's any requests now is your chance
Otherwise, I will select probably ace. Oh, yeah. I know which one this is an 80s song
Um, let's see if you guys know this there's way too many zoomers in this space. So I just try to you know
Liven it up with some 80s tunes
Guys know this one because you are gold
Just another play for today
Could have learned you're in this
Every thursday 6 p.m. Eastern i'll see you next week. Thank you so much for tuning in. Bye