I'll see you in the next video.
Wow, this, um, x, x, um, audio is, is
been bumped up a notch. That was, that was quite the vibe.
Honestly, I thought that was default. He got Bitcoin music playing in the background.
Maybe it just needs to be like these row casters for people who don't know the things that like
most of the co-hosts, uh, and play music through. They are a pain with x. I'm not gonna lie. So if
anyone's ever tried to mess with one of these things, and for the hosts who just get it right
every time might seem simple, you know, just play a bit of Spotify, play a bit of YouTube,
whatever you like, doesn't tend to work out so straightforward. I'm not gonna lie. That's
at least my experience that the pure hilarity as well of me saying about my technical issues,
playing music on x, when we have possibly one of the most technically profound projects
up on stage with us today with OCM, you love the segue. See what I lack in musical ability,
I make up for in chatting absolute garbage for everyone here on stage today. So you're more
than welcome for that. But no, we do have probably one of my most favorite guests so far with OCM.
And we've got Amanda on stage with us. Amanda, thank you so, so much for your time. We're going
to talk to the co-founder and CCO, sorry, the COO of Metagoods and the creator of On Chain Monkey.
Amanda, how are you doing today? I'm great. Yeah. Thank you for having me on. Really
excited to chat with you today. Yeah, me and Barry have been looking forward to this one.
We've been strategizing. There's so many questions I think so many of us now have with ordinals.
It's just really catching the zeitgeist at the moment. I actually think it's so impressive
with meme coin season right now, how much ordinals like has stayed in the playbook,
has stayed in everyone's attention. And I personally just can't see it going anywhere
for a long, long time. And I think this has been the best example of this. But Barry,
what do you think? I mean, meme coin season on Bitcoin hasn't even started yet. So when
runes drop, that will be our Bitcoin season. I know we are definitely going to get into that.
I'm definitely interested in getting Amanda's take on this. But what right now, what I want
to ask everybody to do is can you please like and retweet the space out? There's going to be
a lot of questions today, a lot of incredibly technical, very good answers to those questions.
Sorry, Amanda, for putting you on the spot there. But we know what these guys deliver.
And yeah, look, if you do have questions yourselves, please hit the comments.
I already see some really big names in the ocm groups. Jay brush out out to you,
absolute legend who, for those who don't know, he's like one of the biggest whales in ocm.
But he's also one of the biggest dudes I've ever seen. I know Barry is going to attest to this
because Barry is also absolutely hench. But we're at Miami at an ocm event. And Jay brush was just
throwing out the freaking pull ups as if they were nothing. I literally couldn't do as many
push ups as Jay brush can do pull ups, which, you know, if you know me, isn't as impressive
as it sounds. But he is like just an absolute chad. And I can see so many other ocm out there.
So thank you, everyone, for hopping in today. I think this one's going to be a banger.
Barry, how are you feeling about this? And then we'll get into some questions.
I mean, what can I say? We've got legends on stage. I mean, what's been completed from
a technical standpoint is unparalleled by these guys. And we're going to delve deeper into that
particular point of topic later. But for now, I think in Jack, you were an ocm holder, I think,
I believe. I am. I am. Yeah, I have been for a long, long, long time. But yeah, let's let's
get into Amanda. And by the way, guys, if you do want to hop up and ask your question live,
then we're more than happy to do that as well. So don't be afraid to request to come on stage,
especially if you've got any specific questions for the ocm team. But Amanda, can you just first,
for people who are just introduced new to this, maybe you've just hit the BTCD Gods channel
and thought what's cooking today? Who are the team? Who are ocm? Can you just give us a
bit of a background for those who may not know the history of the team?
Sure. Yeah. So, you know, Entrain Monkey was launched by Medigood. Medigood is a company we
formed in May 21. My co-founders are Danny Yang, who created MyCoin, which has been operating for
10 years. It's the largest cryptocurrency exchange in Taiwan. He also founded Blockseer,
which government agencies use for blockchain analytics. He sold that in 2018. He founded the
Stanford Bitcoin meetup in 2013. He's a PhD in computer science from Stanford and a physics
degree from Harvard, so like giga brain. Bill Tai is our co-founder and chairman who invested in both
MyCoin and Blockseer. Bill is a VC legend. He was the first investor in Zoom. He was a seed investor
in Canva, Dapper Labs, and now publicly traded, 20 publicly traded companies of the CNBC 50 most
disruptive companies list in 2022. He had personally seeded three of the top 10 of those. So,
we're very lucky that he was our first check into the company and our chairman.
And we have regular strategy sessions with him on Saturdays, which is awesome. And he's just been
a wonderful chairman. And then he actually introduced me to Danny in 21 when we were
starting the company. I've known Bill for about 10 years, both kind of personally
co-investing with him for the last five years and also through his non-profit,
which is Actai Global, which kind of brings tech entrepreneurs together,
usually in beautiful kiting locations. And people have founded companies, got funded,
found their first customers. I think Zoom was stress tested 18 months into the company founding
on Richard Branson's private island, Necker. Melanie Perkins found her seed investors for Canva,
also on a kiteboarding trip with Actai Global. So, it's a network I've been a part of for,
gosh, over a decade now as a kiter. And yeah, my background was, I guess, Twitter,
NBC, and five kind of data analytics startups that were acquired by Google, AOL, and the
latest one by Capital One, but was not a founder of those. So, this is my first time actually
being a founder versus an employee at a startup. And it's been a wild ride. I mean,
yeah, so that's kind of the team. Of course, it's not just the three of us. We have an incredible
community team, end team, you know, yeah, like, yeah, great product team,
art team. So, yeah, it takes, you know, a whole village to, as you know, manage and run
anything in the web three space. So, we have incredibly talented people on our team.
Yeah, that's fascinating to me is just, I think, look, there's been a number of projects now.
I think we've had every variation of project in terms of, you know, like, super professional to,
like, you know, startup kids just, like, hitting the NFT streets and throwing something together
and just seeing where it takes them. But I did think that when I first started following OCM,
and for me, the part that captured my attention was actually when you decided to go on chain
on heath. That, to me, was really, really interesting to see a team pull that off,
but also just try something really different and really innovative.
Whilst, you know, most of the metas were very much just leaning into the fact that we were promising
metaverses at the time, we were promising all sorts of crazy stuff. But the OCM team,
I can tell just from your background that you've just defined there, built very differently, built,
you know, understanding the tech, knowing the tech, but came from it from a really different angle.
And I love that. But I think you had a follow up there, Amanda. So, I'll let you speak again.
Oh, no, I mean, yeah, so I just kind of just give you a little background on the team. But,
you know, we when we started, obviously, Ordinals wasn't around. So back in 21 on actually
September 11, 21, Danny coded 10,000 on chain monkeys. So they were SVG files, not JPEGs,
all in a single Ethereum transaction. And that was actually the first 10,000 PFP collection
ever done in one Ethereum or in a single transaction. So that in itself was kind of a technical
achievement, obviously making a digital artifact, because that's why we're on chain. And so people
are like, why do you call it on chain monkeys? It's because like all 10,000 were on chain before
kind of on chain was a thing. And that kind of launched, you know, launched the company,
you know, fast forward to a little over a year ago, when the Ordinals protocol
was launched. And, you know, Danny being really a Bitcoin maxi and very OG kind of Bitcoin person,
you know, saw the opportunity and basically inscribed, you know, 10,000
of those monkeys on to Bitcoin. And so that was the first 10,000, you know, inscribed on Bitcoin.
And so yeah, it was very, you know, very kind of insightful for him to do that. And then over
the course of last year, you know, we've had our community basically do a major migration,
I'd say actually an upgrade from Ethereum over to Bitcoin. So, you know, getting a community of
people to, you know, educate themselves on Ordinals, download an X-verse wallet. And then over the
course of the last six windows, we've had these portal openings where people can, you know,
migrate their Genesis over. And it's a teleburn process in which then they get, you know,
four inscriptions. And so what was so great about that is not only, you know, and these
four inscriptions kind of trade together, move together. But obviously, as you mentioned,
kind of like airdrop season that made everyone who had, you know, migrated to Bitcoin eligible,
for example, Runestone, right, which was, you know, three inscriptions, you know, before their
snapshot. So, you know, majority of our holders, I think, you know, over 78% now have moved over
to Bitcoin, which is pretty incredible when you think about it, given there's, you know, obviously
some percentage, you know, we don't know exactly that are just dormant wallets that are, you
know, maybe never going to move or never going to hear, you know, all of the tweets and the
spaces and the Discord announcements and the smoke signals we've sent about this. So, you know,
there's certainly, you know, just some people that are never going to make it over.
But it's a very high percentage that have. And yeah, so it's, you know, that was that
was that in itself was, you know, a huge achievement and, and very exciting. Obviously,
so yeah, I mean, look, he raised a very interesting point about Danny's vision and
his early bullishness on Bitcoin. Now we're seeing a lot of projects actually migrate from
Ethereum, Solana over to the Ordinals for the first time. And we're seeing that shift
happen literally right before our eyes. Now I have to ask, what did Danny find the most bullish
part of moving over to Bitcoin? Because I mean, I read his Medium article about how
he was talking about how he created on-chain monkeys in the first place. And he mentioned how
much Ethereum he wasted trying to inscribe on Ethereum for the first time and how frustrating it
was. So I'd love to know, like, what went through his thought process to say, hey, look,
we need to make this move. We need to make this move quite early, because let's be honest,
2021 in Ordinal terms kind of just means you were there from the beginning, right? I mean,
that was when you first inscribed on Ethereum and then you later decided fairly early in the timeline
that, hey, Ordinals is the right next move. So what was it that made Danny, A, made that move
in the first place, and B, think that, you know, the transition would work? Yeah, and I certainly
can't like fully go into his mind or probably do justice, what goes on in his mind, because he is,
as I said, just like, probably one of the smartest people I've worked with. And his his mind,
it's interesting to hear him talk, because he you can you can almost like, see his brain flipping
through like all the different options and thinking about all the possibilities, and then kind of like,
very decisively moving forward with this. So I don't think I'll do it justice. But I mean,
just I think at a macro level, obviously, you know, he had built, you know, one of the largest
cryptocurrency exchanges in Taiwan, my coin, so he's been very familiar with Bitcoin being a different
medium than Ethereum, it being obviously, you know, the largest market cap, most decentralized
L1. And so I think, you know, the opportunity to kind of be that first collection inscribed
an inscription 2021 nine, and all he did that all also in a single inscription. Again, I just think,
you know, I think, you know, when we first did it, he was probably like, what, like, it makes sense,
like, why wouldn't we want to be on the, like, the largest market cap, most decentralized L1,
but you know, we first launched it, you know, people were still like, Oh, you know, what's
ordinals? Is this going to be a thing? Is everything is still stay on Ethereum? But as we've kind of
seen, as the cards are playing out over the last year, I mean, you know, definitely ordinals is
here to stay, it's growing. I mean, you look at the Runestone market cap, you know, getting close to
board ape, you know, market cap status, I mean, it's, it's very exciting. So and, you know, I
think he also had the foresight to know that, you know, fees would go up as well. And you know,
when he coded our collection, he used, you know, parent child provenance, he used recursion, some
of these things were not even supported by the protocol at the time. So what's really cool
about on chain monkey Genesis is they're all cursed inscriptions, right? So if you look at my,
like my Twitter profile, like that little curse signal, or emoticon, and some other people use it
also for OCM is just to like kind of remind people like everything OCM Genesis is cursed,
there's only 416,000, I think, maybe 460,000, I have to go back and look at my numbers,
but you know, it's less than 450, you know, 470,000 inscriptions are cursed in the world,
there will never be more cursed inscriptions, right? So if there's 63 million total inscriptions,
this is like, very rare, right? And obviously, later, this stuff was supported by the ordinals
protocol. Obviously, this is kind of the way that people now define collections, right is parent
child provenance. Otherwise, you're just you're doing, you know, set of inscriptions, but you
know, you have to rely on magic Eden or some other source saying that it's a collection,
right, but it's not, you know, without parent child, according to the ordinals protocol,
it's not necessarily a collection as they define it. And then recursion, that's,
that's being used everywhere as well. And you know, I'm talking about on chain monkey Genesis,
but you know, when we launched OCM dimensions, the 300 collection, last June, you know,
Danny also inscribed all of these code libraries that now all these artists are using to put
generative art on Bitcoin using recursion, right? So I think far from quantum cats, you know,
hardo from Flora forms, you know, a number of artists have used these libraries that
like we created the Astro Bugatti egg collection. So the Astro Bugatti egg that was in the Sotheby's
auction, also, you know, leveraged the OCM dimensions code base. So what's really cool over
time, and we haven't done this yet, I kind of call out for anybody who can technically figure
out how to do this, but I'd love to see like, the visualization of this code base, right,
that goes back to like, OCM dimensions code, and then all of the projects that have
kind of spawned from that. Because I think it'd be very cool to see that visually. I know Danny's
been, you know, saying that at some point, he'll, he'll get around to doing it. But obviously,
he's so busy with so much other stuff. So if anyone knows how to do that, that's kind of like,
I'd love I'd love to see that because I think it would be very cool to see that visually represented.
Yeah, I think for me, that was almost like, the big leading factor for me. And I know we don't
want to say like, crypto punks, and any project is a part of that. But that was what came to mind
when I first started following OCM. And I was in ordinals pretty early, you know, it was BTCD gods,
basically just dragged me there before magic, he didn't even had a marketplace. And then I sort
of got hooked, been in Bitcoin for years and years, and just absolutely fell in love with that.
But I think when there's all these different types of projects these days, and I think one
of the things that always really interests me is projects that take the tech really, really
seriously. And both from a collector standpoint, or you know, even from an investor standpoint,
it is this idea that on a long enough time horizon, the projects, I think,
who have really stood the test of time over on Ethereum, all the projects that we see all the
projects that mirror over time. And I think for me, that's where I was like, okay, I'm watching
what OCM are doing right now. I semi, you know, I'm not the most technical person in the world,
but I semi understand what they are doing. And it's cool. But not only is it cool,
I can understand at least to a level that I know how complex that is. And I know that other teams
are going to use this in the future. And you can look at contracts, you can you look at the
like the volume, I think with CryptoPunks, the whole idea was, you know, they figured out most
of it in terms of actually being able to get a project on Ethereum, and then everything that
sort of board of yacht club sort of reproduced. And OCM isn't CryptoPunks, I get that, I get
that, you know, there isn't going to be another CryptoPunks. And that isn't something probably
that they're even trying to do. But when I look at, I think when I look at CryptoPunks,
and even to an extent, like Chromie Squiggles and the Generous of Art side as well,
I see that with OCM, I see this, like other projects, other very technical projects,
but also projects across the board, like Nimmakin, what Danny's created, what you've created,
Amanda, and what OCM created. And to me, on a long enough time horizon, there's no way that
doesn't in some, you know, in some semblance, attract to like historic provenance. And we
all know as a collector, like one of the best things to do is have that historic provenance
to go along with something that you truly, truly connect with. And that's where OCM really
captured me as a collector. But Barry, I know you're newer to this, and I know you've done
you're reading up for the show. But what's your take on that? Okay, do you have an opposite side
to this? Or what were you? I mean, I've been following OCM since the start of Ordinals.
They're one of the OGs in my eyes. And the same way I consider B2CD goes one of the OGs,
I consider OCM one of the OGs, because what they do, they have their own take on it,
they stamp their own take, take on it, whether it's from a technical standpoint,
or even the art that are just pops, you know, you will know an OCM as soon as you see one.
It's like very distinctive, it's got its own vibe. I do see that we've had PD have his hand
up for quite a while. So I'm gonna ask him, GM, GM, do you have any questions for our speakers today?
Yeah, PD. Hey, good morning. Good afternoon, actually, for me here from the States. But
yeah, you know, I wanted to come up here because I was really interested. I saw obviously,
I remember back in, geez, what was it 2022? And on chain monkeys is actually on ETH. And so I came
in here obviously late in the conversation. I'm sure you guys have. What's that?
Okay, I remember back when you when when on chain monkeys was on ETH,
I just recently got into Ordinals, not even like taking the orange pill not even like five weeks
ago. Okay, so on chain monkeys was one of the first ones that I saw as part of the Ordinals,
and I was confused. I'm like, Okay, or what exactly is Ordinals? What am I seeing here?
On chain monkeys here and not on ETH. And then today I hear, I think it was Amanda,
was it Amanda talking before because I'm driving and so I kind of like briefly looked at my
phone to see who was talking. I'm talking about recursion and parent child inscriptions,
stuff like it just blows my mind that you guys were doing that when I'm literally just
learning about all this stuff now. And I thought that this stuff was brand new, but you guys were
pioneering that back a year ago, it blows my mind and it makes me bullish on this collection.
The one thing that I wanted to ask you about was I remember there was some I'm just trying to
remember there was like an airdrop or something like that for some candy. And then you could
use that candy or something like that to transform the on chain monkey into a more 3D variant version
of it. What's going on with that? I'm seeing a bunch of on chain monkeys down in the audience
who are just like 2D art, but can you explain exactly where that's going to tie in and if
it's going to tie? Yeah, and first of all, I just want to say thank you so much guys that you have
like taken the time to kind of do the research. And you know, obviously, hopefully,
we get some great sound bites because like I want to send all the flowers obviously to Danny for
what he's done. I mean, sometimes internally, we're like, yeah, we're the CryptoPunks of Bitcoin,
but it's like, you don't want to just say that publicly, because you don't want to offend anyone
obviously who's CryptoPunks or anything else. But from a technical innovation pioneer
provenance standpoint, it really is very parallel, like what the CryptoPunks did, what we've now
done in terms of like firsts. A great article and is if you just like Google the rise of ordinals,
it's a Bitcoin magazine op-ed that Danny wrote. And if you just scroll to the bottom, and I can
try to find the tweet that I pinned a while ago, it's literally like the first thing, like what
were the first that the Genesis collection did? And it's like a list of like over 10 things.
What were the first that like OCM dimensions did? And like all these things, I remember even
when the article came out, when I read it, I was like, Oh, like, I gotta ask Danny, like, what,
like, what is that really? Well, what is it like block nine 450 xats? What does it mean?
Like he actually, like coined the term 450 xats, which is now a attribute on magic Eden,
it's, you know, and I'd be like, Danny, what does that really mean? You know,
and like, all of the Genesis on Bitcoin are on block nine 450 xats. So it's like,
all of these things like that, the thought that went into this collection is, is just
truly mind blowing. So I just want to thank you guys for really appreciating that because,
you know, and I hope that other people on the space today, go and learn more. And, you know,
our job, like at OCM also is to educate and, you know, we've been doing that on spaces,
we do that for our own community, we try to do it, you know, like Danny writing op-eds and,
but we, but it's still such early days for ordinals. So I, you know, we need to, you know,
keep doing that. And so I definitely appreciate your question to PD. So in terms of the the
candies, those are desserts. And so when after we dropped our Genesis collection, one, one of our
holders actually did kind of a rendition of his Genesis monkey and posted on Twitter and people
loved it so much that people were like, dude, can you make me one? You make me one that we
reached out to him. And it turned out he was the Hollywood animator award winning Hollywood animator
behind the movies Ice Age, Rio, and Ferdinand. And we're like, dude, do you want to come work for us
and like, make more of what you just made? Because everyone like loves, loves this like version of
the monkeys, right? Because, as you said, like one version of it now, you know, Bitcoin Berry is like,
relatively simple. And there's an awesome medium post that Danny wrote about the making of
Entre Monkey and how he had to really work to get that all into you know, 10,000 SPGs into a
single Ethereum transaction. So this, you know, we decided to do the opposite. Like, let's hire
this animation team. And they're literally like hand painted art. So he came over, he hired his
boss, and one of his other colleagues, we literally had a three person art team work on this for
over nine months to come up with the Karma collection. So if you go to OCM Karma,
those are still on Ethereum. They're beautiful art, they are still, you know, they're all the
metadata is on chain, but the art itself because the files are so big on Ethereum are not on chain.
But what is so cool is those are also coming to Bitcoin. So those will actually be four megapixel
art, which will be the highest resolution art on Bitcoin, very big files that are now also
will be migrating to Bitcoin as well. But what happened is if you had a Genesis monkey,
we airdrop desserts. So there were three different desserts you could get, we airdrop desserts to all
of those holders. And your Genesis monkey could then eat one of the desserts that would then
turn their Genesis monkey into the Karma version. So kind of like the hand painted.
Yeah, and I remember that. I remember that too, for sure. And I remember it was a lot of fun.
And also, I remember, which was really cool was when Coinbase first launched their NFT marketplace.
I remember like you guys being like, if not the first one of the first to actually be on
Coinbase's NFT marketplace. Yes, yes, we were honored. I think we were one of the first
NFT collections they wanted to profile there. So yes, that was yeah, definitely an honor.
But yeah, so that's that's that's that's candy. Thank you very much are these desserts. And, you
know, dessert eating will also be available on Bitcoin. So these are all things that like,
again, like technically, you know, Danny's working to make that possible. So you'll, you know,
you'll be able to eat a dessert, burn it and then turn that into, you know, your Karma version of
your Genesis monkey. So all of the metadata is tied. And there's some incredible spreadsheets
people have made. So you can kind of see, okay, if you have, for example, a blue body, that's a hoodie.
And you can see, you know, like the blue square body, like what does that look like in Karma.
So there's some really cool spreadsheets that are, I know floating around our discord, but
I'd have to dig to find the tweets with them. But yeah, people have spent time so you can
kind of shop for different, you know, traits. And you can kind of see what what they'll look
like in Genesis. And then once they've been a dessert, what they'll look like in the Karma
version. Can I can I and you modify clarify something I know that fits fits he has his
hand up and I'd like to go to him. You know, I want to be mindful of my time of, you know,
his time too. But anyway, so let me clarify something. Are you guys going to so you guys
have the 2d art right now on Bitcoin, and you guys plan on migrating the 3d over to Bitcoin.
And you're going to have desserts airdrop to the owner is going to be the exact same layout.
The airdrop for those desserts already happened for our original Genesis holders,
but you can also buy ocm desserts on aetherium right now. So you can still feed your Genesis
monkey a dessert to get a karma right like some people like to have the full set they want the
Genesis and they want the Karma one and the Karma two, right so they want to buy the desserts to get
like the full set together. But, but eventually, when we enable it, you can have your Genesis
monkey on Bitcoin and also eat desserts to make your Karma monkey on Bitcoin. But that's not
enabled yet, because we still got to move Karma over to Bitcoin as well. Hopefully, it makes sense.
But yeah, not not another. And so those are actually, you know, people, you know, buy the
ocm desserts. Yeah, and then you know, you can kind of choose the monkey that you want it to be,
you know, you want to feed it, you want to feed your monkey those desserts to then make the Karma
version of Bitcoin. But yeah, I mean, the tale they are there is just it's also going to be a
huge upgrade just like ocm Genesis, you know, became, you know, for sats for inscriptions.
The Karma monkey also will now become officially a digital artifact, because that will be fully,
you know, on chain on Bitcoin, you know, highest resolution art, four megapixel, super awesome art,
I mean, you can see J brush, at least in my when I look at looks like J brush is like right next
to you, but I don't know if everyone's seen the same thing. But J brush, that's a celestial,
if you see that, like, orange monkey with the kind of like, glowing eyes, I mean, it's just
it's super sick, like they're that that's the highest tier of the Karma. And it's, you know,
very, very detailed art. Those are all one one of ones. But Fitzy, I want to turn over to you
because I know you've been at your hand up for a while. evening, guys, that was in the UK
afternoon, from probably everybody else. How are we doing? Yeah, I think I there was a disc
there was an OCM discord town hall last week. And one of the things that, you know, I've been
OCM since sort of, you know, pretty much day one about nine days later. And one thing with Danny
as Amanda kind of attested to is that sometimes you're like, Okay, I think I get it. And then
sometimes you don't get it. And so you were talking earlier about like, having these things
on satoshis. Okay. And one thing that I hadn't framed OCM as until I saw Danny say this last
week was, and this is gonna sound like a hot take, but like, forget about the parent child
that OCM pioneered, forget about recursion that OCM pioneered, and like, forget about this list
of like 16 or 17 first like OCM pioneered, just isolate the canvas upon which all of that
innovative art is inscribed. But this is the collection of two halves. One is historic and
one is futuristic. And Amanda spoken about the future and like how Danny sees around corners and
obviously, you know, the whole backstory of Bill and Danny and being in Bitcoin for like over a
decade and all that sort of stuff. That's most people know that. And in the OCM community,
we also understand the significance of the Satoshi, but I want to kind of double tap,
triple tap and emphasize just how significant these satoshis are. So these are the 450 x's,
which basically means that the first transaction that ever happened from Satoshi himself,
so a guy called Hal Finney in January 2009, these stats were involved in that transaction.
And these were 10,000 sequential 450 x satoshis. And so that's another first from
shame because of the first 10 K on Bitcoin on 450 x's. And that's another thing. And these
things are collectible. And so if you think about Bitcoin maxis, they never ever, ever,
a lot of them came into Ethereum because they wouldn't sell Bitcoin because the whole point
is that you stack sets, even when they were fungible, the whole idea is hodl stack sets.
And so what do you think will happen when they can now stack sets? But some of those sets have
a rarity. Some of those sets have a narrative. Some of those sets have, you know, historic value
that they were involved in the first transactions, right? Satoshi mined them himself. And so I think
there's a quote that he said, it was something like, you know, I wish I could remember, I should
have written it down. But he's basically saying, look, before we even get to the things that
on chain monkey did, think about the canvas upon which they are inscribed. And that level alone
means that they have a certain value before you even then have the futuristic stuff. So hopefully
that makes sense. It was probably a long winded explanation or something. Maybe I could have done
better. But I just think it's worth acknowledging that the foresight to go futuristic, but also
then the kind of dothing of the cap to go back and say, let's do it on something that's going to stand
the test of time in 10,000 years, as long as Bitcoin's there, these only get more historic.
So apologies, but that's, that's just something I wanted to kind of double tap on, really.
Yeah, look, I think it's a great point. I think for those who don't understand ordinals,
that is probably one of the strongest sort of differences with inscriptions is the fact that,
look, yes, the actual technology only made ordinals and inscriptions, like to the extent
that we see like JPEGs today or NFTs or ordinals, whatever, you know, terminology you need to use
to wrap your head around this. That's one thing. But you still get to inscribe these things on
an individual Satoshi and those Satoshi's have their own unique history to them. And some of them are
just straight up cool. Like, you know, the first transaction between the creator of Bitcoin, Satoshi,
and any other human being on the planet, and then to be able to inscribe your work onto that
has just become this huge, huge narrative of like collectibles. It's definitely an element to this.
And we've seen it with obviously with ZK, we've seen it with OCM, we've seen it with a bunch
of collections at this point. And it leads me into my next question, perfectly fitsy. So thank
you so much for leading me into this. But for you, Amanda, which is what in the OCM team's opinion,
or just in your own opinion, what stands out to you with all of these sort of these narratives,
these laws around inscriptions, but also inscription time? Because I think that's one thing that when
I look as a collector, I look at those two subsets. So I look at communities and projects
that have been built and understand the law of Bitcoin more generally, and that's where they've
inscribed on recitoches. They've done some really incredible things around those inscriptions.
But then I also quite like what we're seeing now, which is a new law, which is around just
ordinals generally. And these teams like node monks and a couple others where they, you know,
they built and they inscribed super, super early, and they have their own history and narrative to
that. Do you see those things both playing out equally as we go on in terms of will rare sats win
out or will like the people who inscribed their projects and remained around during the bear
market? Which side do you take as OCM, but also yourself as, you know, someone who collects and
who's deep in ordinals? I mean, I think there's just so many dimensions that are interesting from
a collector standpoint. I mean, obviously I think it's great. You know, obviously we've been built
through the bear. We started, you know, really before the bear like back in 2020. We're still,
things were riding quite high. So, you know, I do give a shout out to all the builders that have
continued to build. And then now, you know, obviously going to halving, we're all pretty
excited and, you know, it's markets, you know, heating up. But at the same time, it really
still feels such early days for ordinals. Like just a year ago at Consensus last May, I remember
Danny spoke on the one panel. This is a Coindesk like, like conference, right? On the one
thing about like, could Bitcoin be anything but a store of value, right? With like CTO of,
former CTO of Custodia Bank, and I think Dan Held was on there. I mean, like they were even wondering,
can Bitcoin, like what is ordinals? Can Bitcoin be anything but a store of value? Now fast forward,
like Casey Watermore is like their number one most like, you know, influential people in the
whole crypto space. It's like, it's moving so quickly. And then, you know, you go to these
IRL events and, you know, even Bitcoin Magazine, like, you know, Amsterdam, like the coolest events
are these side things just about ordinals, not just even all of what's going on Bitcoin and mining,
like people want to go to the inscribing Amsterdam event, people want to go to inscribing Atlantis
in Miami, or, you know, they want to go to the side events, because the ordinal stuff is really
where it's hot. I mean, I was just at East Denver. And it's like, we just did a 500 person,
I think it was more than 500 people RSVP'd and like two floor event, right at East Denver,
right? And there was and like, I went for only like 48 hours, but I only did ordinal stuff at
East Denver, right? So it's like, it's just it's just so cool, like how quickly this is changing,
right? But you know, in terms of your question about like, also just, you know, early inscriptions.
Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, some people are going to very, you know, really value like,
what were the earliest inscriptions? And, you know, really, I think those collections,
I mean, I think Bitcoin punk was like, inscription number 89. But then you look at now you fast
forward, and it's like, well, what actually defines a collection is parent child providence,
right? And like, there's, you know, node monks isn't that, you know, Bitcoin punks isn't that.
So it's like, you know, it's funny, because I've spoken obviously, on the, you know,
ordinal show, and I love Leonidas, and it's like, everyone has their own view, like,
what is first really mean, like, and is it is collection by how the ordinal protocol actually
defines it? Or, you know, what does it mean, right? And so, I mean, we were both early,
in terms of 2021 nine inscription, all 10,000 being done there. We also are, you know, obviously
collection with parent child. So, you know, at the end of the day, I think people have to,
you know, collect what they enjoy in terms of the art and then, you know, community. And,
you know, we, we are built really for the long term. So just like, I think crypto
punks took a little while for people to really look under the hood and understand
the innovation and the technical stuff that happened to make them super successful. I think,
you know, we're still in very much like, educational process of, you know, what Danny
has created, really, which is kind of this masterpiece foundational ordinals collection,
but it's still like, people are still learning like, okay, oh, wow, parent child, oh, wow, recursion,
early sats, like, oh, block, they're all sequential, like block nine 450 x sats, like,
at the time, that was 70% of all the block nine sats were the Genesis collection at that time when
he inscribed. So it's just like all these little things. I pin kind of the tweet of like,
Auntie Monkey is first and cursed. And I actually took a screenshot out of his op ed. So that list
of stuff, like, people are still learning what all of this stuff is and what it means. But I do think
like, over time, like, this will be, you know, a collection that people will absolutely cherish.
It's actually foundational. It just may take some people a little bit more time to fully
understand all that, that was accomplished in Auntie Monkey Genesis.
Yeah, I mean, it's quite clear.
We're not built for like, you know, per se, the pump and dump, right? Like, we've been,
we've been a very steady collection growing, growing, growing, you know, when I think there
was like a dip a week ago, like, we didn't really dip, like, we kept, you know, our floor,
like, we have a lot of diamond handed holders that are like long term collectors. But yeah,
it does, you know, the floor is thin, it doesn't take much to get, you know, to increase the price
very quickly. So yeah. So you had it here first, guys, OCM does not dip when the market dips. So
the most market resistant NFC, it's got to be said. But no, I think one thing that I look at
in the market right now, and especially when something like Bitcoin pulls back, I always have
a general glance at the ordinal prices. So I look at which ones are most resistant to
like, consumer behaviour, like people panicking, and thinking, oh, shit, I need to floor my NFT,
and I need to get out of NFTs. So it's interesting to see the different community reaction.
And you can notice it, like you just see in the floor price, like which is more resistant,
which community are more diamond handed, and have belief in the NFTs. It sets communities apart.
But speaking of communities, what I really do want to segue into the next part of
the conversation, and that will be runes, right? Big things coming up, we have many,
many rune miners in the ecosystem, many new coming out every day, we've got Arthic,
we've got Runestone, which we touched on earlier, we've got RuneTotems, we've got TinyVikings,
we've got Node8, I mean, the list goes on. We have many. Now, the question is,
are OCM going to be mining or releasing any runes?
Wow, that's, I cannot comment on that. So we haven't announced anything yet. So there's
nothing that we can publicly say at this point. Yeah, no, I appreciate that. But, you know.
Yeah, but you gotta ask. Yeah, you gotta ask if you don't get it. Absolutely, you know.
There's definitely been speculation amongst the community because there were some bots that were,
you know, discovered. And yeah, so yeah, I can't comment on that. But I will say,
you know, we've been very fortunate to be the recipients of a number of these drops.
I think, like, last week alone, I was tweeting, like, we, like, again, got, like, the Runestone,
we got the Karma Coin, which would be great for Fitzy to talk a little bit, which was basically
like a community-run effort. Our lead investor, Jason Fang, from SoraVenture, is invested in the
TAP protocol, is a community of seven people, four of them OCM. So a lot of those tokens went
out to the OCM community on Bitcoin, but also to, like, nine other communities. So it was actually
the largest fungible token airdrop, right, to over 61,000 wallets. So fungible, not, like,
ARSIC or, you know, Runestone, which are, you know, non-fungible. So still the largest fungible token
that went out. And yeah, just, you know, so, you know, Karma Coin, yes, we all got, like, some,
some time, I think most of us, you know, got these tiny Vikings things, and then also Runex
dropped a treasure chest. So I, frankly, like, don't even know exactly what some of the utility
is yet. Like, I've dropped into the Discord, and, you know, like, you know, it hasn't all been
revealed yet, but it's always great to get things. And, you know, you know, we're super fortunate that,
you know, the founders of some of these other projects have wanted to gift those to our
community. And it's a great community. I mean, when you think about it, it's like everyone
had to kind of get educated on Bitcoin, you know, get their experts wallet. You know,
relatively, you know, OG is funny, because it's, you know, Ordinals has only been around for a
little over a year. But, you know, to be around at the beginning is OG, right? So our community is
technically OG in that sense, as you guys are as well. And so, yeah, we're, we're excited.
Appreciate that, Amanda. You know, you did say earlier in the space that you needed some now,
nice sound bites. So I thought, oh, hey, let me prod, let me prod her a little bit. Let me
get some alpha for the audience. But, you know, I can totally understand why you can't
more generally, like a big part of runes will be the whole meme part of things. Now,
memes are popping right now, as you know, ETH, Base, Solana, Avax, I mean, you name it,
they are popping off. Are you dabbling in any meme coin shit trading? What's your opinion
on meme coin trading? Are you a fan? Give us your take.
Um, I mean, it's been incredible to watch the growth of meme coins. I frankly, don't really
have the time day in, day out to be trading a lot of meme coins, because I am like, you know,
spending so much time in our Discord and then in meetings to build on Chain Monkey. So I'm less of
a, I would say meme coin trader than probably more like builder of a company. So I'm not the
right person, but it's I, you know, it's, it's been, you know, fantastic to watch. And it's also just
interesting to watch things kind of, you know, go up really quick and then, you know, go away,
right? Like, so it's, you know, it's hard to know what's going to happen. Are there only going to
be, is it only going to be like two memes that are going to dominate runes or, uh, you know,
could there be 10? And then which are those? And, you know, following those are, is interesting,
but I do, I'm fortunate enough that, um, you know, yeah, close to, close to a lot of people that are
actively trading or even doing funds specifically for runes. So I do get, you know,
some alpha there, but I wouldn't say I'm like tracking all the memes that are coming out.
Oh, so you mentioned something just very, at the end of that whole passage, and that was
creating an exchange for runes, did you say? I mean, maybe we can get some more alpha. What
do you reckon Jack? Can we sound like that? Yeah, I don't know. By Amanda's silence there,
I'm going to say no. But what I will say is no, this, this has been fascinating. Like,
I think, yeah, you have to look at what's happening on runes. And for those who,
you know, aren't on ordinals native, then yeah, they basically are a sense of meme coins on
ordinals. It's actually based and built, I believe by Casey, who also was the person who
sort of coined the ordinals protocol as well. So this has got a lot of backing and a lot of like,
you know, almost like proof of concept in the fact that the guy who made ordinals and people
who said ordinals are going to die, the next thing to come out is going to be runes. And
it's going to be very interesting to see how that dynamic plays out over time. And for me,
yeah, I guess my follow up, and then I'd love to get back to some hands, is we are seeing a lot
of runes projects. And the irony of the fact that, you know, it isn't really even out yet,
you know, not perfectly anyway. And we're already seeing a ton of projects come out with a title
of runes in their name, trying to find new dynamics to this. Do you think it could be
oversaturated by the time it gets here? You mentioned that, you know, it's like on other
chains, what we're seeing is like these two big names fight against each other, you know, Pepe
with, you've got Doge, you've got like, Chib, I think it was in the last cycle. Do you see the
same thing happening again with projects already coming out? So many runes projects, do you feel
like the market is going to hit like a saturation point? Is that something OCM are paying attention
to? Or is it just, you know, heads down focusing on the project and, you know, runes will be what
they will be? And we're definitely watching everything that's happening in the market all
the time. And, you know, I also run a small venture fund with Bill Tai. And so we do do some Bitcoin,
like 50% of our fund is crypto Bitcoin stuff. So I do I'm also a mentor to like Bitcoin Startup Lab
and a few other kind of accelerator programs. And so I do see a lot kind of from that.
Oh, I think Amanda's working. Yeah, no, I can't hear Amanda right now,
with the hopes that she may be able to hear us in a second. Let's go. Yeah, I mean,
I think she was just about to drop Alpha and then Elon ragged us. Crazy. He loves to do that,
Elon. Like every time we get near Alpha on the show, like he just loves this close.
This close. Oh, Amanda's coming back. Sorry, Amanda. We lost you for a good 3045 seconds.
Oh, shoot. Okay. Can you hear me now? Yes. Yeah. Okay. I just like walked like a little
like a step towards the window. That's weird. I think it would be better towards the window.
But no, I was just saying, it's always hard to predict the future. But if you look kind of at
past behaviors on other chains, like there tends to be a winner or two, but probably not 10. So
I do look at stuff also, you know, I do some investing as well. And so I do see various
projects, you know, that are looking for investment or launching different things on
the rune protocol. So I'm definitely, you know, watching what's happening. But I think it's
probably a bit early to predict who would be the winner yet, given the protocol hasn't even
fully come out yet. But it's it's awesome to see all the enthusiasm and like, I mean, man,
hats off to Leonidas for rune stone and getting that out and like the art is so cool. And it's,
you know, obviously very distributed and, you know, very, I think, fairly distributed in terms
of how they did it to OGs and, you know, three inscriptions in your wallet. And so I mean,
that's been so fun to kind of watch that and cheer that on. And I don't know what's going
to be next. Is someone going to do something bigger than that? Who knows? Like, hard to say.
But obviously, Leonidas is, you know, master marketer and he's done, you know,
just incredible job with with rune stone. Absolutely. And if runes really takes off,
I mean, we'll have Bitcoin's first proper meme mania meme mania, even. Yeah. So it's cool. Who
knows? Like, I don't know enough about tiny Vikings. I mean, you know, like any of these
could be really interesting as they develop their story. Yeah. And who knows? Amanda might become
a meme maxi soon. You know, you never know. Runes could change a lot. I'm certainly very
bullish. I think I like I like the front running that that's happening right now. But every
rune project is slightly different to the next. They all have their own spin on it,
which I find interesting. And I've certainly got quite a few airdrops in my wallet,
thanks to Leonidas and now also the other rune miners. I do want to throw it to
lane lane. Appreciate you. Thank you for joining us. Go ahead.
GM GM, thank you very much for having me up. So, you know, I had a question really for
Fitzy Fitzy. What I really just heard Amanda say was that, as as the guy who's in car in
charge of marketing content for for for ocm, it's really your responsibility on this space to
share with everyone about what's going to be going on with runes in the coming days to weeks.
And so I just love to throw the floor open to you after having received the green light
from Amanda about giving us the alpha. Bless you. Let me just clear my throat then. Okay,
here we go. So obviously I do I do I do like my balls. So I'm going to just play it carefully.
Balls are overrated. Balls are thoroughly overrated.
I've got to I've got to put Elon on this one, but balls are definitely not underrated. Just
going to say that out there, but you may continue.
For everyone wondering what is going on right now, I think Barry basically muted the whole stage
just in order to get the comment about balls out there, because we definitely needed to lean on
that subject for longer and for more time for the audience. Just the alpha was just unparalleled
there. We're going to try and unmute, but it looks like Elon is now just having even more
fun with this. So everyone should be unmuted. Lane, give it a go. See if you can get go into
your follow up. Fitty came off mute. So if not Fitty, you can run. Yeah, I think I think maybe
we got sidetracked by some by some other stuff there. No, the the rune stuff. I mean,
it's going to absolutely explode. I mean, look at it this way, right? Human behavior doesn't
change. So all that Casey has said is if you want a casino on Bitcoin, BRC 20 is not it. There's too
much friction and it's it's just it's not very flexible. So if you really want a casino,
I'm going to open the biggest, baddest casino, and I'm also going to make it be able to dovetail
with the all the knows protocol and the cool example that I'm very excited to see in this
cycle and this kind of mega Bitcoin cycle that we're kind of just gearing up for now is
the functionality that allows a non-fungible, so an ordinal to birth using the parent child
provenance functionality, a runes collection. And so let me give you a visual and think about
this. Imagine the last cycle, if the owners of alien punks could have birthed a collection
that inherited the same DNA, the same on chain provenance, the same law, the same history,
right? And so I don't know who's going to do that sort of thing first, but imagine if you had one of
the top ordinals collections and then you launched a coin, that stuff's going to be a meta of its
own. In terms of answering it in relation to RCM, obviously I'm not going to start saying things
if Amanda isn't going to start saying things, so I'll take her lead. However, what I will say is
this, if you birth something into an environment, do you think that it's less or more likely that
the people that have been building on Bitcoin for a decade or more, Bill Tye, who was a part of, I
think he was a board member of a company called Bitfury back in 2011, that were literally creating
ASIC mining chips, also was on the board, if not still, of a mining group, which is the largest
North American Bitcoin mining group, right? So do you think that they are less or more likely to
understand how this is going to go down, the same way that Danny understood 13, 14 months ago,
how ordinals was going to go down and went completely off-piste and pioneered all these
things that people are now calling standard? I would just say, if you put a runes collection,
if RCM ever did do that, just know that they would do it in an incredible way. So that's all
I will say. Let's bargain go, Fitzy. I think it's far more likely than less likely. What I
want to see at that harvings, I want to see the epic sap that's going to come out of the
harvings. I want Danny's face on that sap inscribed forever, indelibly into the Bitcoin blockchain,
and I want a piece of the child inscription that's going to be coming out of that. That's
going to happen. I can feel it in my bones. To go back to balls, my balls are tingling about that,
but door jokes aside, you guys are awesome. It's been a pleasure listening to this space
and to have two goats on the stage as you two sharing with all that shit. That gets me very
excited. My blood pressure is high. It is high. Let's go. I love the energy that Layne brings to
the stage. Thank you. I appreciate all the comments, including the one about your balls.
One question I do, on a serious note, want to ask is, there seems to be a lot of conversation
and debate I see on Twitter about who will technically have the first runes token.
Now, you guys had a partnership with Tap Protocol, as you mentioned earlier. There is talk of perhaps
pipe being the first token on the Bitcoin blockchain that uses runes TXL based protocol.
What's your take on that? Obviously, slightly biased because you've worked with Tap Protocol,
but also I'm sure you're going to launch something runes related. You might not confirm it,
but I'm sure at some point in the future, we know we might see an OCM rune. Who knows?
But what's your take on A, who do you think is the first actual rune token? And B,
how do you see the perception? Because a lot of people don't know that fact,
or should I put quotation marks around that fact? That pipe was the first token on the
Bitcoin blockchain. So give me your hot take on that particular thing.
Is that for me or Amanda?
For both, but you can go first.
Yeah, I think that the thing I want, and I was speaking on the space earlier
about this, what people need to remember about runes is it as a protocol is not live.
Right? Until the halving, it does not go live. So all of the debate around what is
the first rune is mute. It's not live. And so all the people who are selling you something,
and this is a genuine, now I want to make sure people understand this before you invest money in
things. Play in the casino, right? Do all that good research, all that sort of DIY stuff,
but please understand that anybody that's even suggesting that they are the first,
that's wild because it hasn't happened yet. It hasn't happened yet.
So they all want to be. And in terms of a gas war, if we think gas wars, if we think
other side for BUIC was a big gas war, imagine the Bitcoin gas war for people that are going to try
to do their runes collection first. Whoever does it deserves everything that's coming to them,
because that bounty, that is going to be like everybody, all the gig of rain chads, right?
Danny potentially included. I have no idea if he's doing that or not. I genuinely don't.
He wouldn't tell me, right? Amanda will know. I genuinely don't. But that is going to be
incredible. But I just have to emphasize anything else right now is basically a digital IOU.
And so just be aware of that when you invest and invest with money you can lose, because
I see some people getting majorly wrecked thinking that, oh, this actually is the first
rune. It doesn't exist. The protocol doesn't exist yet. It's not gone live. I think the only
thing that's publicly available for that is like tweets. So I have to just reinforce it,
because I think that we have a responsibility to do so. Yeah, that's my only point I want to
get out on that, to be honest. The TAP protocol stuff is actually more calmer coin than it is
OCM. We lodged on TAP because of the fact that it is like a BRC-20 on crack, as someone said
recently, and it is a good way of thinking about it. If we'd have air dropped to 61,000 plus
wallets with BRC, it would have cost like hundreds of thousands. Whereas in reality, it costs like
maybe 20,000 or something like that. I'm not the dev, but I have to ask Rabbi on the exacts.
But yeah, TAP protocol is another protocol that everybody should be watching that the TAP
track and pipe ecosystem. And there's room for many protocols, many meta protocols on this
massive Bitcoin blockchain. So yeah, I'm excited about runes and TAP as well. So
hopefully that answers the question in some way.
And I just want to add to that, like in terms of karma coin, that was actually not
an on-chain monkey initiative. Again, it was a seven person council, FTSE is one of the people,
but it was four OCMs that launched that. And originally, I think it was only going to be to
OCM and then decided to expand the distribution and make it to nine other communities. So
yeah, I just want to clarify, like we've been supportive of it. Obviously, it's value to our
holders. And I'm excited to see like how it develops, but that's not actually a meta-good
on-chain monkey project. That was kind of a community driven project, which I think is even
cooler that that was born from the community, not from our team.
Yeah, definitely. And honestly, I think that's a great note to wrap up on. Just coming from the
community side, FTSE, thank you for hopping up on stage and giving us that take as well. And
Amanda, massive thank you for sharing with us your time today and just giving us all the alpha.
It seems like there's a lot to come for runes. We just don't know what that is as of yet.
And as FTSE said, it is not live yet. So just be careful. And I think, you know, all sick,
I think what Rune Stone are doing, you know, they do have a level of legitimacy that like
people and the right people are sort of behind. But outside of that, you do need to be very,
very careful. And yes, those things can bite you when you're looking for provenance,
or if you're looking for the equivalent of Amib coin on any other chain, I just don't think
that that's really going to sort of translate in the same way on Bitcoin. It never ever does.
Thank you to all the speakers. Thank you everyone who's listened today. And thank you again for
the OCM team and Amanda. It's been fantastic having everyone on. And I hope everyone has
a great Wednesday night. Cheers, guys. Great space. Thank you, everyone.