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DePIN: Transforming Digital Infrastructure
Recorded: Dec. 4, 2024 Duration: 1:00:42Space Recording
Full Transcription
Hello, hello. Welcome up. Welcome up.
Oh, I can hear you now. I couldn't hear you while I was down as a listener. That was a little odd, Toki.
Okay.
Yeah, I didn't hear anything either, actually, when I was down there.
Weird. I'll have to run that back. Okay. Well, sounds like we got action. Sounds like we got Patrick.
And, Neuron, did you do the first check when we got everyone going?
Yeah. Hi, everyone. How are you doing?
Perfect. Hello, hello. Good to have you on here.
So, I am Toki Busa. Welcome, welcome.
This is our 1 p.m. Eastern Time show, Deepin, Transforming Digital Infrastructure.
And, we are joined by my co-host, Action underscore CEO.
What a wonderful man to have. How are you doing today, sir?
Bro, I just lost a bunch of money yesterday with all the Mintable stuff.
Just because I aped in a little too hard.
So, I'm doing great. I'm doing fantastic.
It's a good reminder. Get the heck out of, you know, DeFi. Stick with Deepin.
Bruh.
I think more people need to learn that lesson.
I mean, in all fairness, I did have fun.
You know how people go to Vegas? It's the same idea.
Like, if you look at it that way, a lot less heartache. You know what I mean?
Like, I know for a fact what went down. It was not ideal.
But, hey, I had a good time. I really, really did have a blast.
So, it's all right. I paid for my entertainment.
Not a lot of us can say that these days.
We're usually stressing out over stuff.
And it's like, you know what?
I'm going to spend a little bit of money and have a little bit of fun.
Every once in a while, I think it's okay.
But, yeah, if you're talking about making money and, like, staying liquid in this space,
dude, like, nothing beats Deepin in my book.
I'm going to have to agree with you across the board.
Even when we look back at some of the, let's say, crazier investment types as far as Deepin goes,
they've still paid out over time.
You've always, okay, I can't say always.
More often than not, you've gotten your investment back and more from Deepin.
I cannot say the same when it comes to DeFi.
Yep, you're definitely that on about that.
But, hey, we've got more people up here.
Who's behind a Diffusion account?
Hey, yeah, this is Patrick from the Diffusion team.
I had the technology there.
And just to give folks a little context on Diffusion, if you're not familiar,
we are building a protocol to curate, validate, and verify language data, language data sets.
Yeah.
Beautiful.
Oh, even Scott Foo decided to join us.
This is great.
Neuron.
Let me go to Neuron and make sure we get that intro from you guys.
Hey, guys.
Yeah, so I'm James, our CEO, co-founder for Neuron.
I'm afraid I'm a little bit bunged up.
I came down with a bit of man flu at the weekend.
So if you hear me coughing and spluttering, that's why.
But hopefully I'll be all right and we'll be able to make it through the hour.
But Neuron, we're basically building a customer gateway to D-PIN.
So whilst most D-PINs focus on the supply side, I think pretty much every D-PIN that I'm aware of is focused really on supply side.
And Layer 1s are really focusing on providing the infrastructure for the supply side.
Who's focused on the demand side?
Well, that's where Neuron has really been focused the last four years.
And I think we've got a really exciting solution that some of your listeners will like to hear about.
Dude, I'm so excited to say that.
People forget that this is a two-sided thing, right?
It brings me back to my Helium days.
Like, great, you guys are making $3,000 a month?
Phenomenal.
How are you going to be able to pay everybody out that's like supporting your network?
Yeah, the demand is definitely something that people tend to forget about.
It's like, let's just sell some nodes.
But who's going to use it?
Who's actually going to take advantage of that infrastructure?
So 100% with you.
Love to hear it.
Can't wait to get into it a little bit further.
Scott Fu.
Is that the Scott Fu?
Like, I just want to make sure my eyes aren't deceiving me because I think it's been a hot minute since I last heard from, you know, the one and only Scott Fu.
And you know what?
Since I'm going to hope that this is the right guy.
So I'm just going to say, all right, guys, here's Scott Fu, the deep end, you know, legend from Peak.
What's going on, man?
Action, my brother, my brother.
Hey, man.
Hey, anyone who doesn't know, I always like to bring this up, man.
Me and Action, like, dude, this is our, well, 2021, 2022.
So 2025, this will be the fifth year of me and Action, like, rocking with each other, man.
Like, I just love this guy to death, man.
Like, we used to do marketing spaces.
In 2021, there'd be all these fake marketing spaces for NFTs.
Me, Action, a couple other guys.
Shout out to, like, Illa, a bunch of other people before.
We all, where we're at now, we had no idea what we were doing.
We would do these marketing spaces called the Commander Crypto Show and literally just try to be the real marketers for people that, you know, are going on these shows to hype their mint out.
And, yeah, man, five years later, Action's still building, still in this space.
It's never rug nobody, never showed you some BS, man.
So I just want to give Action your flowers, bro.
And it's a blessing to be arm in arm, hand in hand, you know, I don't mean that in a weird way, building the deep in space out with you, bro.
Were you just about to say no, homo?
It's okay to still say that.
It's okay.
I won't cancel you.
Yeah, you got it.
It was like a muted one.
But, yeah, no, man, Action just want to give you flowers, bro.
And, no, I saw the space pop up, and now that launch is over, man, I'm glad to, you know, get back on spaces, you know, get back into the trenches of the deep in communities.
And, yeah, man, the token stuff is just all heads down.
Now that's up and going.
Now, yeah, back to doing the cool stuff.
And, man, trying to be a part of that, trying to get it going for your next Seattle event, bro.
Oh, yeah, deep in, that'll be fun.
You got to get ready.
Here's the one question that I will make sure you're prepped for.
How is Peak any different than just any other substrate?
I mean, it's just polka dot.
What makes it, you know, special?
Oh, yeah, man.
So, let's just throw the technical stuff aside.
No, but the technical stuff is what matters in deep in, isn't it?
No, no, no, but that doesn't make, that's not what makes the difference.
You know what I mean?
That's, I'm going to tell you the difference why you've seen a lot of migrations from the big chains to the new chain.
You can sit here and sign every project you can, right?
You know, no, no diss to any chain that does that.
But how many BDs can you pass these projects on?
Tier one and tier two, we'll just keep it there.
You have to be able to, deep in is a, well, it's a new sector to the masses.
You know, I'm not including the 2017 people.
You have to be able to be the mind, body, and soul for each of these projects, especially if they have a web two base.
They don't know even a nuance of, all of a sudden, they're buying bots for their space.
You're like, dude, oh, I saw it in another space, you know?
And just like a little nuance like that, you're like, bro, if I look down, it says 8,000 listeners, and there's like 14 of us in here, bro.
Like, you know what I mean?
Or they're just, they'll see a vanity metric and pay that KOL or that space and not knowing they're literally talking to oblivion.
Literally, you're like, bro, there's 2,800 people, 56K listeners total.
And bro, you know, you can scroll down yourself and you get to the 16th row, and it's all those hot-botted NFT accounts.
So for me at Peak, it's very important to join bi-weeklies or weeklies, you know, whatever the project needs.
And literally, from anything front-facing, from, you know, what, yeah, you should sponsor Deep in Day Seattle.
You should partner with Gentio.
You should get action as one of your KOLs, all the way to, you know, helping with the deployments, you know, with SkyX,
making sure they're getting into the right deployer's hands and not someone who's just going to, oh, the token's down,
I'm going to unplug everything, kind of like what happened in 2017.
So I mean this in the nicest way.
I coddle the projects, bro.
Like, you know, like from FarmSense, SkyX, Silencio, like, I make sure there's nothing,
no stone unturned or something that they need, whether that's, you know, introduction to government entities.
You know, like I said, making sure they're sponsoring a right event, not just throwing money into the wind
where there's not going to get one user out of the sponsorship.
So, yeah, man, I would say that that would be the biggest difference.
And I know you wanted a technical answer.
But, yeah, I'm not going to sit here and try to give you the Harvard talk about how a relay chain on Polkadot,
we're all this and that and our transactions are, you know, milliseconds faster than other things.
I just like, at peak, this is why I took the job there.
And no dis to the other chains who offer the job, I just get to wake up every day and worry about Defen
and RWA and real-world applications.
I don't have to worry about, you know, the DeFi parts of that.
I don't need to worry about NFTs.
I don't need to worry about SocialFi and so on.
So it just keeps the focus in line as well.
So for me, those would be the biggest differences.
And then if you wanted the technical one, I kind of gave the answer when Zach interviewed me through GenZio.
Oh, yeah, that was a good interview.
But I say this in the best way possible.
You would make any chain that's deep and dedicated, Pomp Bro.
Like, honestly, I hope they give you a nice allocation because a lot of the success behind me gets to do with your hype.
So, okay, you got to keep us in line today.
I got to be honest with you.
I'm just going to, you know, go off track if you're not keeping us in line.
Oh, boy.
Yeah, it's one of those days.
One of those days.
We got Neuron talking about being sick.
Dude, I've had some crazy upper respiratory, like, funk going on all around the house and a stomach bug all at the same time.
I thought I was going to die a couple of times over the last seven days.
So, yeah, I'm there.
This is Action Unfiltered today.
I've definitely seen quite a few, I think, of our GenZio friends getting sick over the past several days.
And I'm not even traveling, which is ridiculous.
Neither are they.
Like, most of these people have been home for, like, the past, like, two or three weeks.
So, like, they haven't been going anywhere.
These are the people that haven't even been going to conferences.
So, it kind of sucks that they're getting sick right now.
You know what doesn't get me sick?
Going to conferences?
No, Nodes and VPN.
And, yeah, I can always rely on that.
I don't got to talk to anybody.
I just, like, turn it on and, like, it doesn't talk back.
It's amazing.
Best employees I have.
I mean, you kind of need some response out of it to make sure you know it's working.
But other than that, it's fine.
Oh, man.
Oh, my gosh.
Okay.
So, yes, we have poor Neuron.
I'm sorry that you are sick.
Action, I'm sorry you're sick as well.
No, it's been going, dude.
It's been days.
So, it's all right.
We're just getting over it.
It's just a matter of, like, let's have a good time when we're at it.
I mean, we're here for β people say that we're not here for a long time.
We're here for a good time.
I like to do both.
Oh, my gosh.
All right.
So, let's bring it back into Deepin and the actual transformation of what digital infrastructure is.
Now, Scott, I'm sure you have quite the accelerated knowledge on the background here.
And I know we've talked about it a bit in the past.
But as far as what we're seeing as the transition over from, let's say, Web 2 infrastructure to a Web 3 infrastructure,
where do you see your company fitting into this?
And I'll just go through each one of you.
So, Patrick, I'll let you run it off.
Where do you see D-Fusion really fitting into what the transformation of digital infrastructure is from maybe Web 2 to Web 3
or even where you've seen it before to now?
Yeah, good question.
I think β and, you know, we have the supply side.
We have the demand side.
So, we're focused, again, on curating high-quality language data, right?
This is stuff that can be used by agents in, like, a RAG infrastructure.
So, for querying that data, it's stuff that can be used for fine-tuning, for niche AI applications, and for training, for training LLMs, right?
So, I think as we move into a space where, like, people are building rails, people are building economic rails for agentic AI and for growing this stuff out,
we see ourselves as fitting in on that core quality data layer, being able to kind of allow folks to plug in from, I guess, from a couple different sides.
One is that as people building on top of building LLM applications, things like that, right, building these agentic applications,
they all have demand for this data.
We're talking to some folks who are already interested in those things.
And then from the other side, I think one of the exciting things happening with D-PIN is that users and folks who are sitting on top of valuable data sets,
usually they don't β some folks get to benefit from that,
and you see these huge deals where companies will buy from the, you know, $100 million contract to license some data from Reddit, right, something like that.
Well, the folks producing the data should get a piece of that too.
So, part of what we're doing is helping, you know, plug in those economic rails where people who are actually producing the information that trains these machine learning algorithms,
they actually get to benefit from those things as well.
So, maybe I'm bouncing around a little here, but that's kind of where I see it sitting in.
It's like this underlayer of data where folks can benefit from helping feed the new models,
and folks can kind of composably tap into those data sets for their agentic β for all these agentic systems that you're seeing people trying to build on top of D-PIN systems
and on top of various economic rails, like a BitTensor or something like that, right?
Yeah.
Definitely a needed system, especially as far as infrastructure goes.
It's almost like the evolution of what Google is probably supposed to be, realistically.
It's, I mean, what Google is supposed to be.
Google never, ever was supposed to be this.
They've always gone to their customers and, like, looked at them dead in the eye and said,
You get nothing to lose!
Good day, sir!
I mean, let's be serious.
I mean, that's why I love D-PIN so much is because it's actually rewarding the people who actually are providing the value to the network.
Yes.
I love that.
Maybe it's a little, like, old head or reactionary of me to say, but I used to like using Google a lot more than using it now.
I feel like a lot of the internet, to me, this is just my personal opinion, is a lot more boring now.
We kind of have our search optimization.
We're kind of siloed into different places with whatever algorithm is being run to capture our attention.
And everything just looks like a store or a game to get at people's attention.
And I would like to build socially useful applications.
So hopefully, if we build this economy correctly with D-PIN, we'll be able to do that.
And we'll have a better system.
We'll have a better internet.
We'll have a better search.
We'll be able to collaborate in more interesting ways.
That's what I hope.
I love hearing that.
Right?
As Toki would say, you're not wrong about that.
You got to try that again sometime.
I don't know.
I mean, this is just a Toki line.
You're not wrong about that.
But ultimately, I'm with you.
I mean, I'm older than the internet.
So I know exactly the change you're talking about.
Well, you know, I've asked Jeeves, let's just put it that way.
And I know what I've seen and what I see now.
How, you know, data is not only being suppressed from users, but narratives are being pushed, you know, whenever they want, however they want.
It's, you know, I know what should be trending at times.
It's like, why isn't this showing up?
Well, because they choose not to.
So anytime you have these centralized powers that are able to make those kinds of decisions on behalf of the user, and it's just not a good time.
Like, A, you can't trust it.
And B, you're not getting the information you're actually seeking.
So it's a little bit sad.
And again, Deepin solves so many problems.
And I think that's a huge one of them.
All I could think of while you were talking about that was that old service where you could text them your questions and they would send you an answer back.
Cha-cha?
Was it cha-cha?
Yeah, it was.
Yes!
Yes!
Yes!
Thank you!
Y'all old.
80s babies, bro.
We're like the last of the fucking, the real ones, bro.
Hey, that, I gotta, I gotta say, Cha-cha was pretty awesome.
Yes, you were essentially texting someone who was sitting at a computer who was just gonna Google things for you anyway, but I was totally down for that.
Okay, my bad, y'all.
So, Neuron.
You were supposed to keep us on track, Sophie.
Come on.
I know, I know.
So, Neuron, let us know a little bit more about what your company is currently doing.
In regards to transferring digital infrastructure.
Well, I was gonna make some joke about also things that are sick at the moment, but basically, what is it that Neuron does?
We're, I think I sort of touched on it earlier, really.
We're, we're a demand-focused deep in infrastructure.
So, like, I actually met Scott in, uh, in Singapore, uh, in September, so, uh, we, I think we went to the karate combat, uh, uh, we're at the karate combat and sort of hung out a little bit, but love what, what those guys are doing.
Um, what we're seeing at the moment is that we're seeing great, great traction on the demand, on the, on the supply side of deep in, we're seeing like lots of, lots of really cool use cases, whether it's tracking vehicles, drones, GPUs, CPUs, AI edge agents, and all, all this kind of, there's, there's tons of, tons of stuff.
But what we're not seeing at the moment is huge, uh, huge traction from the enterprise yet coming, um, and it will come, but there's no real focus on how do we go and get people using this stuff?
Like, how do we actually get real traction, like real pounds and dollars being spent on these services?
Um, and that's really kind of like how we started off.
We, we tried to sort of solve that side of the problem we've been going for about four years.
Um, what we've developed is an edge network infrastructure, which basically connects.
Imagine you have an SDK that can connect you to any deep end device on any network and build basically an edge, an edge application.
Um, and what that gives you is, uh, a series of like really, really cool benefits.
A lot of deep ends at the moment, what you see is, you know, they're distributing a token to people to, to deploy devices on layer ones.
And then they're then pulling all of that data into a centralized web two application and then providing an API to customers.
Um, so they're basically building a web three network with a web two app.
What we provide is the infrastructure for customers to build web three apps to access deep in services.
And that web three app has like so many more advantages over the web two app.
You've basically got like, um, there's no infrastructure in between.
So zero infrastructure equals zero cost.
So huge cost savings up to 90% cost savings for the customer.
You get like 50 times less latency because it's peer to peer.
You're not going through a centralized cloud server.
Um, you know, you're getting 50 times faster.
You've got full privacy on your connections.
You're getting peer to peer connectivity, all encrypted.
So if you're transferring, uh, private information, then you've got no risk of that being siphoned off.
Like, I don't know if you remember, uh, Cambridge Analytica through Facebook and what was happening through that.
So there's privacy concerns.
It's fully transparent.
You've got no single points of failure.
It's for high availability systems, such as like drone and aircraft tracking.
It's superb because you, this thing is like rock solid.
It's, it's hard to take it down.
Basically it's a decentralized network.
Um, and, uh, finally is, is by removing the intermediary, you actually avoid a lot of regulation as well.
Intermediaries are often in regulated markets have to go through loads of, you know, approvals with the regulator.
So if you remove the intermediary, then you're removing all of that wasted regulate regulatory paperwork and approvals that you have to do.
So I, that's just probably five or six, but basically it's a whole complete shift change in the way that deep in is delivered to customers.
Um, and that is what is going to drive the traction because if you put a web two app up against an incumbent traditional, there's loads of web two apps out there already.
Like we, we don't need more web two apps.
We need web three apps.
Um, and really what we do is bill.
We provide the infrastructure to build your web three app so that a customer in a web two field can access those deep in services.
And that's pretty much it in a nutshell.
But what we've been doing, we, we, we've done our first use case.
We started off with aviation.
So we were trying to connect these ground-based flight tracking sensors into drone systems so they can avoid other aircraft.
Now we've, we've got some really good traction.
We focused, we haven't really built a huge network at the moment.
I think we've got about somewhere in the region of 70 or 80 sensors.
Um, which we, which we deployed as part of a beta program.
Um, but they're about to go.
Uh, so the, the sensor manufacturer we work with jet vision, they're about to, um, start selling them neuron enabled.
So they're the biggest flight tracking sensor provider.
They've been going for about 15 years, um, sort of professional flight tracking sensor sensor network.
Um, but, um, if there's other sensors out there that, that kind of fit the bill, we'd, we'd be keen on connecting those two.
So other web three flight tracking projects, we can connect those in as well, um, into the customers.
Um, uh, and any other applications as well.
We're seeing, we're speaking to people in like fields like edge AI.
We're talking to people in, uh, sort of GNS applications and weather applications.
Um, GPU mining.
There's, there's all sorts out there, but, but really how do you deliver that into the customers?
We create a real, um, standardized easy way for your traditional web two developer who might be a Java script or a Java guy to start integrating these deep in services without having to worry about tokens, without having to worry about weird languages.
And, you know, Ethereum smart, smart contracts.
They don't have to deal with any of that.
They just take the edge app, integrate it into their application.
And they are literally, uh, pushing, pushing dollars through the internet.
I am so curious right now because I can hear your wheels turning in your head.
I have lots of people that I can start listing out right now that could benefit from something like this.
But, um, what's the risk for these projects to say, you know what, we'll, we'll, we'll start sharing data with you.
If you're going to acquire customers, um, what's, what's the risk is, I mean, there's gotta be some, right?
Well, I think, I think the risk is there are some projects out there and I'm not going to name names, but there are some projects out there who, who aren't doing real stuff.
So like it will sort of filter out the real projects from the less real projects.
Um, but I think ultimately like that's, that's, that's the best validation you can get in a project is customers buying the data.
Like you can't get better validation than, than customer customer sales.
So, um, we think it's kind of a no brainer, you know, anyone connecting to us, they can still use their token.
So we're not trying to say, get rid of your token or anything like that.
They keep their, their token.
What we do is we, we apply fee.
So neurons business model, we apply a small fee for our, um, validator networks.
What the validator networks just ensure is that both parties, the customer and the deep in seller, those two parties, uh, are protected.
So if I, if I pay you for some data, like I'm actually going to receive it.
If you don't send me anything, I get my money back.
So we provide that kind of like PayPal protection, uh, piece that that's the, that's kind of where, where our model is.
And that's where we're, uh, launching the token to basically pay or to, so validators within our network can, um, uh, earn, uh, earn sort of yield for, for voting on, on these decisions.
Um, and that's what really keeps the trust in an edge network.
Like how, if you've got peer to peer, if you're, if you're literally buying and selling between two people.
Well, quite often in the real world, we, we use a service called an escrow.
An escrow is basically just like, um, a middleman who looks after the money and clearing until both parties are agreed that the product or the service has been delivered.
Basically what we're doing here is just an escrow.
We use a multi-sig account to, to process the, the, the, the payments between the two parties.
Um, and then that multi-sig account, the third signatory is, is the validator network.
So, um, that's really what the bit, which we add, but the, the, the surrounding infrastructure, you know, we want to work with others in the industry, people like peak and others on standardization.
How do we, you know, how do we do decentralized ID and stuff like that?
Peak had got like a really cool system for that.
So like, we're totally, totally cool with, you know, totally up for like working with, with others, uh, on defining some of these base standards that everyone has to use.
Um, and then we, we, we just help connect them to the, connect those services to the customers.
Cause ultimately at some point you can't just keep distributing tokens to people.
At some point the tokens run out and you have to start getting real dollars coming in.
Um, and so, so what we're trying to do is to kind of create that seamless transition from where we're at now,
which is kind of a token distribution model to, uh, a payment model from customers.
And are you hiring?
I'm asking for a friend.
No, I'm just kidding.
There's so much opportunity here.
It's amazing.
We will be actually, uh, so in the new year in Q1, uh, so we're, we're, we're part, actually partway through a funding round at the moment, um, which we're, we're on track to close in Q1.
Um, so we are going to be expanding the team, probably doubling the size of the team to around about, uh, 18 to 20 people.
Um, so there's going to be some people we're looking for people in the marketing side.
We're looking for software developers.
Uh, we're looking for people who, um, sort of more integration, um, integration engineers.
So people who are going to like slightly technical, technical, but sales focused.
So working with, you know, uh, web two enterprises, um, who want to integrate this kind of stuff.
Like we're currently setting up a project with Google wing, which is like super, super cool.
Um, so like there's some really, really exciting projects out there, but we need people to be able to go out and talk to these people and, you know, develop the projects, turn them into, you know, Gantt charts and all that kind of fun stuff.
But, um, it's really a case of getting out there and selling the, selling these web three apps to people, um, and getting them integrated into, into the real world.
And so much opportunity.
When I think about like everything that's out there, like I know you're talking about, uh, identities and stuff like the, the Rec Alliance, they're doing something really cool with dids, right?
Like that's something that I would love to see integrated with what you guys are up to.
Um, just making sure that we're having some kind of a standard, right?
I think that's missing right now. Um, in this space is just people don't know how or where, like it's so decentralized that we don't know who to look to.
Um, which is kind of a problem sometimes. Um, but ultimately it's, it makes the market ripe for the taking for anybody that's willing to say, you know what, we're going to bring something in, you know, this new umbrella and we're going to make it available and make it easy.
Make it so that you can just plug into our SDK and run with it and not have to worry about a wallet and anything else that goes along with that.
Like that simplification of things is really the next level. That's the next year. That's going to bring the adoption into this whole market.
A hundred percent. And we've, we're currently working on a project. So down in Cornwall in the UK, we're working on a project with, uh, five airports, um, uh, and 40 sky, which is our web three app for, for flight tracking.
That basically is, um, we're building a, uh, what they call a flight information display or a FID.
Now this is a aeronautical term. This is like airport, like proper airport piece of equipment.
Um, it's going to be fully open source. Um, and which is like unheard of. So first, this is the first open source FID in the market.
Um, and it's going to be natively connected into, uh, into, uh, all the neuron sensors, sensors connected onto the neuron network.
So we're looking at integrating other, other flight tracking sensors on, onto the network as well.
You know, we want to grow the network as big as we can to start servicing some of these customers.
Um, but that has to go through regulatory approval, which we're currently going through at the moment.
Um, and that that's going to be, uh, finished early next year.
So this FID is going to be working inside real airports, small airports, you know, not Heathrow or Gatwick or anything like that, but, um, smaller airports, it's going to be working.
And it's actually going to be used by air traffic controllers to, to help keep aircraft separated from each other.
So that is.
Are you guys going to expand it though?
Like that's, that's a real question.
Cause FIDs covers a whole lot more.
I know that they do arrival, departure times.
I know they do like the boarding pass stuff.
I had to do like destinations delays, even baggage, I think is part of that.
Right?
Yeah, exactly.
We, we don't, we're not going to go down that route because the thing is with, uh, with a small airport, they don't really have to do it.
They're not really worried about arrivals and departures as much.
And it's more for larger airports where you have that.
But what you've got is a lot of small regional airports.
Um, you know, these places where they've got gliding clubs and, you know, people fly their Cessnas and stuff like this.
Um, these kinds of areas, they're dotted all over the UK, the UK, especially UK is like littered with like airports, like every five kilometers.
Um, so you've got tons of these airports around and the way that the UK regulation is working is that basically ANSPs, which is the air navigation service provider.
They have to be providing a traffic service to drones when they're flying beyond line of sight.
So by we like, it's just a complicated market.
Like don't get me like flight tracking is really complicated market, but we've got people within our team who are regulatory experts in this area.
And I think we've got a solution for the airports.
We've got a solution for the drones.
The 40 sky edge application, uh, is being integrated.
It's already integrated into six, um, six OEM softwares, um, or into the actual drone systems themselves.
And, uh, we've probably got about another five we're currently doing.
So, um, so that's growing out quite nicely.
Um, and really it's now just a case of getting those final regulatory approvals.
And then this, this stuff is going to be in airports, not in the big ones yet, but, um, we are working with, um, TALIS.
If you know, if you're familiar with TALIS, they write, they, they actually have a flight information display called top sky.
Um, so we've already started discussions with them on about potential integration, but these kinds of systems,
when you start getting into flight information displays for Heathrow or, you know, um, I don't know, big, big airports, international airports,
you're looking at expensive, really, really expensive fids, such as what TALIS provide.
Um, but when you get to that level, these things have full certifications and they don't, they, they don't do an integration in a week.
You know, that's a six month job for them because they have to go through all the approvals and certifications afterwards.
So we're focusing on the small airports for now.
That's that, those approvals are a lot easier and that will also ultimately covers 95% of the country.
Um, and then, um, and then we go from there really.
Yeah.
So just a reminder for everybody listening in, I know that we talk about deep end.
It's like, Oh, it's just the next frontier as this stuff is like out there already.
We're just trying to get a little tiny piece of it.
If you think about it, like you just mentioned, um, TALIS, those guys, I think they're over 30 billion in the market cap.
Like we, we think of like 1 billion as like, wow, we're doing amazing.
Our token is going to go to the moon here in crypto.
And these guys are 30 million and they're just one other company.
So like, that's why I get excited about the stuff.
The opportunity is so stinking massive and I don't want it to get, get, get away from us because we either do it now or people are going to start implementing, um, their own centralized ways of just extracting value and not giving back to the community or not rewarding people who are actually participating.
A hundred percent.
A hundred percent.
And like the thing is deep end is huge.
When you start mixing deep end with edge AI, that's when like it becomes a hundred X opportunity because ultimately every single deep end network has got thousands of sensors out there collecting data.
Um, and AI agents can basically process that data and become like subject matter experts.
Um, so I think what we, what we're going to see is we're going to see edge AI applications connecting into deep end services and then those edge AI services, uh, or agents being basically the point, the, the, the connection to the customer.
So imagine like you've got an aviation, uh, agent connected to a deep end network.
You could ask that agent, Hey, like when's the next landing at such and such airport?
And it'll just tell you.
Um, or it could tell you like, uh, how, how far is it between such and such?
So you could start asking it questions and it can tell you information.
It can start flagging up if there was an incident or maybe two aircraft got too close to each
other.
So, uh, using that AI for all their sensor issues.
Right.
And, uh, now, now the AI agent's going to say, instead of that MCAS sensor failing in what we lose about 400.
The people's lives, uh, for a stupid ass sensor, um, that the pilots were told, you know, that's
going to put the nose down of the plane.
Imagine what, like James said, the AI agents could have corrected to that, you know, they
could have said, Oh shit.
The pilots don't know about MCAS.
They'll do a technical fucking correction.
And those 400 lives, uh, they'd still be on earth right now.
So what James is saying, like this shit isn't in the future.
Like this is literally like all these big companies, especially the ones actions bringing
up, um, the ones James bringing up.
Um, you know, we work with Airbus over at peak.
We work with continental Bosch.
These are all top fortune companies with like, you know, that don't come and play around.
You know what I mean?
Action always say this.
Like these are companies who have fought this process out.
Vodafone bank of A and Z.
All these people don't just go, Oh, let's test the blockchain.
Like Starbucks did.
Um, or, or look at what artifact did.
Right.
And what happens is when you see that kind of shit happens, they don't need that chain,
right?
They'll just go spin up the other chain, but that's another conversation.
But these companies are here now.
And all that empty runway, we used to laugh about last December.
Literally.
That's all it was.
It was like last Art Basel.
Um, that shit's all gone now, you know?
So again, like, uh, I just hope everyone took a little bit of their mean coin profits.
Um, you know, a little bit of their other profits and put it in sustainable infrastructure
being built or, or something on the AI side, because they, and we used to get laughed at.
I was just saying this other space.
I remember getting called a grifter for trying to find the intersection of blockchain and AI.
And like, dude, like I'm not even dunking either.
I'm not like going on the timeline told you so in.
Cause I already knew.
Right.
Like, like I don't, I, I, that's why I jumped into RWA deep in an AI a year ago because
you know, I've come from the entertainment business.
I try to find trends before they're out there.
That's just what I do in my brain.
So yeah, people could call call all of us grifters and we're pivoting from web three.
It wasn't the real alpha was finding the intersection of all these, uh, sectors that we're talking
about right now.
Yeah.
And you, you touched on there, something interesting as well, which was RWA.
Cause like there is, there is definitely like a connection there.
Like the way I sort of see it is, you know, if ultimately if you, if your device, say you've
got a sensor and it costs a few hundred pounds, um, that's generally an investable amount for
most people.
So you don't need to like break it down.
But say if you were doing like, um, I don't know, Tesla, a Tesla sharing thing, the sharing
economy with, with Tesla's or something like that.
I think there was one you were working with, wasn't there?
Yeah.
Um, we, uh, we did it with Taneo where it was, uh, um, think about Toro with no middleman,
no Toro.
It was peer to peer, um, a hundred Teslas, um, got crowdsourced and basically everyone
just, you know, signed into their dashboard each day and you saw your revenue and yeah,
they're now they're doing it with hydro turbines, solar turbines, democratizing access to these
things that, you know, the regular, even me in Silicon Valley, I couldn't call up a solar
turbine company and have them, you know, sell me one and I figure it out.
Like, yeah, right.
But now we can crowdsource this money.
We have the cash on hand.
Yo, we, you know, we want, we want to get one of these machines, um, put out in, uh, in
the Hills of Tracy out here in the Bay area.
They're going to talk to you.
Cause we've got the cash and we know what the hell we're doing.
So yeah, I think crowdsourcing machines, what you're saying, James, uh, turning the gig economy,
um, I know everyone loves the gig economy, but you're getting fucked over.
It's time for the broker economy.
Uh, whether like James said, it's drones, whether it's fleets of cars, uh, whether it's,
uh, tokenizing service-based assets.
Um, like my post the other day, we're talking about, um, uh, tokenizing robotic labor arbitrage.
Like I just learned today, FedEx drivers, my, uh, so anyone that goes to the daily alpha
espresso works at, um, at FedEx, they put a sensor in his truck that monitors his body
and his speed and everything in the car.
So think of like a demo device, but also measures your physical, like what you're doing in the
car, grabbing your phone.
He's literally training the language model for his replacement dead ass.
Like he's literally doing all this stuff.
So when it goes autonomous, they have the whole LLM.
It's fucking crazy.
Like our boys literally from web three is training his replacement in the FedEx truck.
So again, like the machine, the machine economy, we need to, we need to own this shit, bro.
I don't want Apple, Google, Apple maps.
Like I never got a check from Apple maps.
Hey, thanks for showing obstacles.
Thanks for showing accidents.
Thanks for your geolocation.
Um, I never got a dollar, bro.
Like, I mean, I don't know about anyone else, but it's, I, I'm not going to let this happen
with AI and robots.
Like when I was in Singapore, James, you know, we were all there.
Action was there.
There was a fucking orange, robotic orange juice machine on every corner.
And it was one company that owned them all.
And I'm like, dude, why can't we democratize access to this orange juice machine?
So yeah, man, this shit was like a laughing stock dream a year ago with all these androids
being on pre-order.
Something has to feed these language models.
Right.
And do we want at all centralized entities feeding everything?
And then boom, we're right back in web two again.
You know what I mean?
Like straight, nothing changed, bro.
Like it just switched hands and the tech stack went to the enterprises.
So yeah, we, we gotta, we gotta try to get the access back, man.
Yeah.
I would say, yeah.
Yeah.
I was going to say right now, I think is, uh, the time where we have the opportunity
because these models are being built, they're like, you know, they kind of represent an accumulation
of knowledge and, um, data capital, right?
These huge, these huge models and stuff that run everything.
So, um, yeah, we want ownership in that capital, right?
That's, that's what we need.
And I guess, uh, going back to something you said earlier about like these big fortune 500
guys, they don't mess around.
I guess the question becomes how do we make sure that we are hooked into the real world
economy, you know, doing stuff like what neurons doing, um, in a way that allows us to take
advantage of this opportunity.
And I know there's folks trying to do kind of blended web two stuff.
I remember, um, a friend and I back in, uh, like six years ago or so, we were building,
um, some personal networking tooling.
And while we were building that, we had to build kind of a gateway layer.
Um, and we saw other companies doing similar stuff like a tail scale, I think was out there
doing IOT stuff.
I don't know if they're doing anything anymore or they're doing well or whatever, but it seems
like, um, you know, we're in the middle of a competition where we could end up having
like these traditional companies eat everything, or, uh, we have the opportunity right now to
create an economy that works for more people where people actually benefit from the type
of capital they're providing to all of these machine learning models.
So that seems like the big problem.
And, um, I totally agree with the folks at Neuron, uh, that, you know, we've got to, uh,
make things easy for people.
We've got to abstract things away and we've got to actually hook up the demand side because,
um, if we don't do that, we can sure we can build a bunch of decentralized.
Uh, systems and deepen.
Um, but if those guys, if the other, if like the big players just replace that or, you
know, hyperscale and build their own stuff, uh, then, then we miss out on this opportunity
that we've got.
And you're already seeing that fusion, right?
Like it's already happening right now.
This is my, I get so frustrated and I I'm the spicy guy at panels.
I don't care.
I was on the Cal Berkeley stage, just saying this, the same thing.
Uh, I love how you're saying this diffusion because for me, if we're going to really go
against, okay, let's just take telecommunications, right?
Like that's, you know, everyone knows helium, everyone.
Um, a lot of people in Canada, um, no carrier one.
Um, people know world mobile X net.
We can go on and on and on.
So for me, if we're going to go against Verizon or any of these big companies, or at least
like challenged those, those, those, these, these companies, it's going to take a group
effort.
Like fusion is saying from all of us on that.
Think the same way.
It can't be.
It can't be.
Oh, well carrier one is on sui and helium's with Solana.
Those, those networks can't combine those networks.
Combining is what it's going to take to go against somebody like Verizon.
But what do we do?
We make more devices like neuron was the James was saying, we make more devices.
We frag the device fragment and it's getting bad, bro.
Like, it's not like when a company makes a new device, like, especially if something
like, uh, mapping, right.
Cause there's so many in mapping.
There's not like when a new mapping device comes out, it's not like that, that project
is getting 10,000 FedEx drivers.
I've never used web three, right?
It's going to be action.
It's going to be me.
It's going to be James.
My boy, suburban crypto down there.
I see a Corey.
I see my boy, easy.
Now it's us.
We're always like, want the newest deep in the newest cool thing and show love to the
founders.
It's not like a whole new set person goes.
And what happens if, if you're, if you're farming the time.
If you're farming the token, it doesn't do what you want or something else is kind of
doing better.
You're going to favor, uh, the, you know, farming, the other things.
And then you're just spreading the liquidity even more.
So for even us at peak, yeah, we're a layer one, but it was important to partner with
wormhole, uh, partner with layer zero, um, partner with mastercard, right?
Like at the end of the day, me and action always said this five years ago, marketing spaces,
like our grandmas don't give a fuck, bro.
They're never going to be so bullish on web three.
They're going to go download men and match, bro.
Fuck that dream is a joke, bro.
But they will interact with web three on the back end.
Uh, if there's a deep in that's making their life easier, like the washing machine, washing
at the lowest peak time and, you know, and selling, uh, the, the extra energy or their
car negotiating a parking spot at Art Basel right now.
Cause we know how fucking impossible it is to fucking find a spot and then scan the spot
and the internet to work.
That's a 30 minute process at Art Basel.
Like it drives me crazy.
And especially if you're going to a nightclub thing, dude, you might not even be able to
connect to the internet to scan.
But now I can just tell my Audi, yo, bro, I'm going here.
It's going to talk to the center.
I'm going to jump out.
It's going to come out my Apple pay me and action inside the event in five minutes.
Uh, yeah, man, I just don't want to go on a tangent of a fusion.
I feel what you're saying.
It takes all of us and not just one blockchain on one sector because grandma doesn't care
if this is on peak Solana polygon or whatever the fuck.
Does it make her life easier?
Does it make access easier?
Does it make her more money?
Um, and then so on.
Shameless plug.
You gotta be a deep in day because there might be a telecom announcement there.
I signed an NDA and I, and I actually, uh,
a bio item.
Okay, then shush.
No shush.
Okay, shush.
No shush, shush, shush.
You just said NDA, shush.
Let's keep us safe.
You didn't sign it.
I did.
Yeah.
I still need you to continue working here.
So I need you to be quiet every once in a while.
Okay.
How about that, buddy?
I'm just carrying on from what Scott was saying.
I think a really interesting area at the moment is around, and it's less fun for us
web three folks, but it's like more real world is enterprise.
enterprise grade, uh, custodial wallets.
I think this is an area that like is really, like is really going to be hot over the next
few years.
Um, because ultimately like you're starting to see some of the big guys as well coming
in like PayPal now, uh, you know, starting to use crypto and you can, you can literally
come straight out of Coinbase into, into PayPal.
Um, like they're very, you know, when you start seeing these big payment companies start
acting as a bank, as a real bank, like not a banking network, but as a bank, which is
a place to store assets of wealth of, you know, that, that are valuable.
That's what a bank always used to be.
I've got no problem with banks that store your, your valuable assets.
The problem we had within web, well, with the world is that web three was trying to solve
was the fact it wasn't, they weren't banks anymore.
It's a, it was a sort of a centralized banking network.
Um, and, um, but I think that the true sort of, uh, thoughts of what a bank is, which is,
okay, we're going to look after your tokens.
We're going to look after your keys and we'll give you password access to your accounts.
Like keep it super easy, but that's it's all of that, that side of it, which is going
to really onboard the enterprise.
And there are some solutions out there that, you know, they're not perfect at the moment,
a little bit clunky, but there are, there are some solutions already.
Um, but I think that that's a real big area of growth, especially as we start.
Utilize it or web two starts really integrating and utilizing, um, you know, these deep and deep
and services, um, quite where CBDCs and all that fits in, I, who knows whether it'll ever,
ever even take off.
But, you know, um, I, I think, uh, I think ultimately, you know, stable coins, you know,
serve a quite a good job at the moment for, for a lot of, uh, enterprise applications.
Cause if you load up your account with a thousand dollars, you don't want to look at your account
tomorrow and see $700, you know, as an enterprise customer, you know, if, if you suddenly, if,
or the other way round, you know, you load up your account with a thousand dollars and,
you know, as you've been seeing over the last couple of weeks, it might be six or $7,000
by the end of the week.
Um, like enterprise doesn't want that.
They want stability.
They want, okay, I've got a thousand dollars to spend.
So we do need to think about how some of the products that we build can be integrated
with enterprise and, and that's what we've, we've been trying to make that bit easy for,
for projects.
So trying to create that infrastructure that makes that easy, integrates with those, those
custodial wallets and, and fits that into customer software.
So, um, I think it's a really important piece and, um, yeah, hopefully we'll see some more
solutions come out over the next sort of few months.
Hey, James, and real quick, just for the audience, what James was talking about with the PayPal
thing, just to break that down.
Like, I don't think people realize how big of a news it was because obviously mean coins,
uh, and obviously AI agents was taking a lot of the mind share, but they paid an invoice
to EY.
Yeah.
That EY Ernst young using its PY USD, which is their stable coin.
And then they use saps digital currency hub and, and the stable coin itself was deposited
into Ernst young coin base account.
Like, again, we're like, dude, we're so not early.
Like if PayPal, Ernst young and SAP are all doing this and then depositing shit into coin
base, you think this wasn't talked about 18 months ago.
Like, uh, you think Vodafone just made PowerPoint out of thin air?
Uh, no, like all this chain.
And I want to shout out chain link too.
Right.
I have no connection with them, but it was when they made the CC IP, right.
That is when all these enterprises that James is talking about felt safe when they could
move things on and off chain and know the network is not going to go down.
Something's going to happen.
That's when you saw, uh, BlackRock do collateral settlements with Barclays way before the ETF
using the CC IP.
That's when you saw bank of a and Z come in.
Uh, that's when you saw HSBC started to do the stuff with metals and gold and whatever
secret Illuminati meeting was going on with the CC IP.
That was the aha moment for me last November.
I was like, okay, these companies aren't just going to come play around.
They're going to come for real.
Uh, I'm going to just hang up my KOL hat, um, uh, and doing funny Twitter spaces.
And I'm all in on whatever this goes.
And then deep and ended up getting a name and here we are.
Wait, HSBC, the same one that banked Pablo Escobar.
Yeah.
The HSBC has a, you know, they've done some crazy shit, but they're still a financial
giant, right?
Like, like whatever we feel about them, whatever you feel about the gangster money
stuff, I get into all that stuff on the space, but yeah, whatever you feel about it.
It's like a nut, like no FUD fades them, bro.
They're still like running.
It's not even FUD.
They know how to make money.
That's what it boils down to.
They don't care where the money's coming from.
They know how to generate it and they keep doing it.
Now they're just joining our neck of the woods and trying to monetize us.
That was your cue, Toki.
How was that my cue?
I mean, yeah, I'll take it, but still, that was something else.
Now, as much as I love talking about gangster money, I still feel like it probably, you
know, actually, it probably has transformed the digital infrastructure more than we're
willing to admit.
Like, yeah.
No, I'm serious, bro.
I don't think people are out of that conversation.
No, I'm just like, for the one I thought about it, I was like, you know.
It just came from a space how they were talking about that Michael Saylor is basically washing
funds for people that are doing nefarious things.
Okay.
And that's why he can buy Bitcoin at a much better price than everybody else.
Like, dude, this is like the tip of the iceberg.
People got way crazier conspiracy theories.
I'm just talking about like facts like Escobar banked with the HSBC.
That's like, not throwing shade at them.
That's just where he banked.
That's how he got it.
That's how he bought the hippos.
There are certain countries Asian mafia banks.
I mean, this is facts.
It's not like me and Action and Gen Z are putting this out there.
This is like you go on YouTube right now and see all this shit.
You know what I mean?
I don't want people to think, wow, they're talking about.
No, this is YouTube information that I've watched myself.
And I got to say, it is a little sad these days.
I can't have a good conspiracy theories because it just turned out to be true.
You know, buddy, that one's a sad fact.
A very, very sad fact.
It's a little creepy at times, especially from some of the talks we've had.
But still, you know, at the end of the day, it is amazing how all of us can kind of come together and have these types of conversations.
And Web3 has done a lot, I'd say, as far as bringing communities together, but also the world together in a different way.
Because while we're still thinking about how to make decentralized opportunities, that really just leads more towards like a one world, one nation kind of thing.
And it is kind of nice to see that at the end of the day, you'd have to have a lot of people get along and get together and work together.
I actually enjoy that thought.
I think that leads to a lot better successes for humanity.
So, hopefully, all of this will just lead towards better stuff for all of us as we continue on with our daily lives.
Hit it, Toki!
I'm sorry.
Yes, you're not wrong, but those are the vibes you're giving me right there.
Hey, that's a great hint for something that RWA is coming.
Take that info for what you want.
A hundred percent, man.
A hundred percent.
A hundred percent.
But, like, dude, technology aside, like, you're dead on.
Like, you know, I'll use Toki's line.
At the end of the day, we're just human looking to connect with other people that we can get along with and sometimes agree, even if just a little bit.
I like to say that if you, you know, agree with like half of the things I agree with and disagree with half, I call you a friend.
That's what you are.
You're not an enemy.
You're just a friend.
It doesn't matter what separates us.
If we can find, you know, this crazy RWA, this crazy deep in world bringing us together, I'll take it every day of the week just because, hey, it's worth it.
You know, these connections, these conversations, I wouldn't know, Scott, if it wasn't for this crazy Web3 world.
I mean, Toki, for crying out loud.
I've shared, you know, a room with this kid and it's been a phenomenal experience, like, all the way across, you know, the other side of the world.
And, man, none of this would have happened if we weren't in this crazy space doing this, honestly, cutting edge type of technology that's going to, to me, set the world free and give us a fighting chance against the corporations.
And, yeah, maybe get rewarded for the things that I've contributed.
I have almost a billion views on Google Maps, Scott.
I know you're talking about Apple Maps.
Like, I'm over a, I'm at a billion almost views on my Google Maps and I got socks.
They literally gave me a pair of socks.
That's it.
Just socks for all my contribution.
Wish I would have gotten a little bit more than that.
You know, I guess you can say I got paid, but I, I think I might have deserved a little bit more and deep and makes that possible, which makes it all the more exciting for me.
But Toki, don't let me spoil your closing.
I don't think you're spoiling my closing.
I think you were just adding to it.
Although making me laugh every time is a little difficult.
That's the goal.
That's the goal.
That's the goal.
Dude, like life is too short.
I can't help it, but have a good time while we're talking about things that I love.
You know what I mean?
No, I do.
I do.
I do.
It's been a good time.
No competition either, bro.
I'm done with that, bro.
I left that shit in the web too, bro.
Like we all came to do the same thing.
It doesn't matter what chain, what project.
If it's interoperability, identity, D-pin, RWA.
Like the fighting on the timeline is so corny now, bro.
Like there's no time for this, bro.
Like, like, like action and Gen Z were just saying, like, the more we play around in the sandbox, the more these enterprises is just cooking, bro.
They don't take days off.
They got a whole office of nine to five MFers that are cooking, bro.
Like they don't care what we're doing on X.
A lot of these BDs from these enterprises don't even have an X account.
Like they left X when we all originally left X, like in 2010, like when that whole fad kind of died.
Some of them don't even have LinkedIn.
Like, I'll be real.
Like there's just, you can't talk to them unless you, you know, go to these events.
So, man, please, like if you come from, like I said, the garbage industry, telecommunications, any kind of OEM robotics, bro.
There's nobody else that knows these problems better and these infrastructure problems better than that would have the answer, man.
So you don't got to be a masterful trader.
Don't got to be fucking drop some NFT or a fucking token.
Nothing wrong with doing those things, but you don't have to anymore.
You can fucking make some infrastructure play that, you know, and now you're the founder fucking at the VC table.
So, yeah, man, get to cooking or we're going to get cooked and we're going to let the enterprises take all this shit over again.
That was a good way to put it at the end there.
Make sure you take care of yourself.
Otherwise you could get cooked, but it is the top of the hour.
So we are going to close on the space out.
Thank you guys.
Everyone that has joined us today.
It's been an absolute pleasure, especially to our guests, Patrick from diffusion.
We have our team over at neuron definitely be checking them out diffusion.
Make sure you follow them.
Scott Fu.
If you guys have not met this man, if you guys have not heard of this man, please give him a follow.
He's absolutely exceptional.
He's such a fun person to talk to in person and on spaces and for all the other people that I see in the crowd that we see on the regular.
Thank you so much.
It's always a pleasure seeing you guys come back listening to us on the day to day.
It has been so much fun and we will see you again tomorrow.
Have a good one, y'all.
All right, dude.
Good man.
I appreciate you.
Thank you so much.
It just felt appropriate.
I know.
I know.
I know, all right, all right, all right.
Good enough.
All right.
If that's ourUNDER.
Come back to us and get-going.
SuperBI-I.
I know.
He's so kind of so happy.
I can't get buried.
I know.
He's so happy.
She's so happy.
I can't do anything.
He's so happy.
Yeah, he's so happy to city.
We want to know.
He's so happy, like having disciples.
I can say something that happens.
I can count as ΠΌΡΠ·.
