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DeSci in 2025 Watchlist 👀
Recorded: Jan. 1, 2025 Duration: 1:17:52Space Recording
Full Transcription
Music Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Hello everyone and welcome to the first episode of the Desai Mike of 2025.
to the first episode of the DCI mic of 2025 nice and fresh on January 1st this is Erin McGinnis
behind the profile this week and uh really excited about where DCI will be heading in 2025
I think in a year from now looking back we'll be in a very different place a lot more progress uh across
projects within the ecosystem a lot more new projects popping up and then also a lot of
initiatives kind of spinning out of all of the organizations uh that are already up and running. Kind of getting set up for this space,
the announcement posts are tagged a lot of DSI organizations
and projects to go follow if you are not already.
These, pretty much all of these have been around for a little while, uh, and, and are doing really great work either on, uh, the funding side of science, different product buildouts, um, as well as from a community perspective. it's been cool to see a lot more regional DSI groups pop up over the past year
and in particular I think I've seen a few more pop up super recently
I think as DSI becomes more and more part of crypto conversations
as well as TradSci folks maybe becoming more and more frustrated with that
ecosystem. I think we'll see more and more regional or city geographically based d sci groups
focused on convening people and bridging those connections from crypto web three over.
those connections from CryptoWeb3 over.
Awesome. Welcome, CryptoShrimp.
Great to have you here today.
Hello, hello. Good to be here. Happy New Year to everyone.
Yes. Happy New Year.
You might hear a baby in the background just disregard her.
She's trying to make her first appearance.
I mean, she's probably hype about Desai if we hear her.
Yeah, she's grown up in it.
That's always great. Also, welcome Dr. Yu. I know you just had a Desai space right before this as well.
I had a couple people listening right now, I think, in on that call.
Yeah, would love to have you share any recaps from that space
or other things you might be seeing in the ecosystem
or if there's anything you're super excited about
and want to kick it off with that first, go for it.
Hi, hello.
This is Mike.
Me, this is Mike, and also Crypto Shrimp,
because I know the Crypto Shrimp from the previous AMA
with the Aurora site, right?
And they are talking with the Research Hub CEO, Patrick.
Yes, maybe you'll remember me, crypto shrimp.
Yes, yes, of course.
Yeah, follow me back, bro.
Yes, and actually, I just finished a D-Site Weekly podcast, and I invited Stadium Science, and also D-Life,
and Metformin, Vitamin C, and also the Aura Science, because today is the new year.
I think a lot of the Chinese guys, they are not coming for playing the crypto.
So we actually discussed about the perspective about the bioprotocols.
It is very interesting because we have three points of view, you know, the left, right, and the middle.
Some of the right side people think that we should join the bioprotocles
and to apply the fund for letting them fund the DAO,
the specific D-side DAO, and asking help from them.
And another extreme side is that they are challenging
the vision of the biproducts they think that uh they are now
running a design project uh guided by the uh research spirit which is the because we all know
that the research is driven by the research questions right and they think a byproduct is actually too many business parts.
Also, yes, we have a causality network, and we're discussing this about things.
And the middle side is that they think that a byproduct is using the more financial way to advocating the crypto sectors to let them know that actually D-Site can help the people to know the popular science and also have some full-time opportunities.
So it's very interesting. And then we discuss about some advice about how to build the DSA weekly because it just finished the first one, because I'm, let me briefly introduce myself.
I'm a PhD from condensed physics, not graduate yet, a PhD candidate.
But I love cryptos.
So I actually engaged crypto for two years.
And I wrote a science fiction called After Satoshi.
And this is a story about who is Satoshi Nakamoto, the big confounders.
Yes.
So this is my perspective about the D-Site Weekly. I want to truly, sincerely want to cooperate with you guys because if we cooperate together and we can make the D-Site bigger.
But for the D-Site Weekly, it's the weekly podcast.
If you need me to engage in the space about the Desai mic, you can let me know freely.
Yes, I'm okay with speaking of the Desai.
I love Desai.
Thank you very much.
Yes.
Amazing.
Yeah, would definitely love to collaborate.
We've been doing a weekly space here since I think the beginning
of the year. We might be hitting about a year now. So have had a lot of the
different DSI projects on over that year and as more projects keep popping up
we'll need more and more spaces to dive into them, cover them, cover those updates, and really give a platform to
showcasing what's happening. But then also collaboration can really expand some of that
reach. And I think that's one power of DSI overall is that willingness of different project leaders generally to collaborate and really kind of find win-win
situations to keep expanding forward. So yes, let's definitely chat on that and keep that rolling into Welcome to... you can come here anytime at Wednesday
and if you have
another plan, I will join
yours. It's okay.
It's okay.
So our
previous D-Side weekly
we have 400 listeners.
Yes.
And yeah.
I'm so tired. Sorry. I speak for, you know, seven hours on AMA continually. A little bit tired. Sorry. Yes.
We've, for about six months at least, we've kept this time, whatever time zone everyone is in, but this kind of hour block we've kept.
So if you are thinking on Wednesdays as well, happy to see about maybe collaborating or merging some different efforts there or at least referring people back and forth.
I think there's a lot of opportunity there.
Yes, yes, yes.
So what is your regular hosting time?
I mean, I'm curious.
Yes.
Whatever time it is for you right now.
I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean your plan because I scheduled my podcast for each Wednesday.
So you're in America or anywhere? I don't know.
I'm located in Hong Kong, so I used the UTC 8 time is about, you know, 20, 21 half is about starting my weekly, these are weekly
products.
And I don't know what is your regular time.
Maybe we can cover more time range, right?
Maybe you are Tuesday or Thursday.
I don't know.
The regular time is Wednesdays at 5 p.m. UTC.
So right now.
Oh my god.
Maybe I can switch
another time and maybe
I can switch to the Thursday
or Friday, maybe
Thursday and I will attend
your
at Wednesday
and I will switch my time because
it doesn't matter.
Yes. Okay. I will
attend your mic each
Wednesday. Yes. Cool.
And I will switch my...
I will change mine to Thursday
maybe or Tuesday. Yeah.
I mean, D-Site spaces every day.
Let's go.
Let's go!
So you are in Europe, right?
I think your time is Europe time because
we're America time. I don't know.
Yeah, currently I'm in
the Americas.
yeah, but I know people
are calling in from all over the place
just looking through the audience right now.
If anyone's listening in and has a DSI project or update they'd like to share, definitely request the mic.
I know I've invited a couple of you up, but sometimes those notifications don't go through.
So feel free to request to join and we'll bring you up on stage.
Yes, yes.
And I can also invite some speakers from the, for example, from Research Hub, from Bioprodical, from Molecular Dauce, and also some Chinese project.
These are China, these are Sino, these are Nigeria.
They are my friends. And also Water Bear Stadium Science and also the Palm Science. I know some people, they have that building and I
can invite them here. And also another space at my place, it doesn't matter. I will attend your space. So you are starting from
this time, right? This is 1 a.m. in Hong Kong. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Yeah. Yeah. It's
hard to keep time zones working for everyone across the world, which is good that more and
more spaces are popping up now that are friendly to all different locations.
Okay.
Okay.
Oh, by the way, it doesn't matter because my time is earlier than yours, right?
I'm starting maybe three hours before.
It's not three hours.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Three hours before your space, your design mag.
So each Wednesday is about design day. Let's set it up,
right? We cover all the time, whoa, Wednesday is for D-Sci around the world. That's good, right?
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Get everyone everywhere into D-Sci every Wednesday. That could be a great onboarding approach.
Definitely.
Yes, we are creating a day for D-Sci.
That is each week Wednesday.
That's good.
Cool.
So, Dr. Yu, I got a question for you.
What's maybe one good prediction we could go around the horn with, Aaron, you and me?
What's something you're looking forward to or some prediction for this year that you think is going to hit for DeSci?
I think, yeah, yeah.
Actually, I have estimations
because currently I think the total market cap
of DeSci sector is not reaching 2 billion, right?
Because the buy protocol is not listing, right? The TG is not reaching two billions right because the buy protocol is not listing right that the tg is not still opening but i think for the
for the pre-tg price and i think we uh the dsai market cap total market cap can reach to
five billions now five billions now but uh example, so why I say that
my conclusion is that
the design total market
will be 100 billion US dollar
in 2025.
But it's not much bigger
than the AI agent.
You know, AI agent maybe have five to eight times than the DISA sector.
The most important thing is that DISA is very young.
DISA is very young.
In the previous cycle, a lot of the AI coin has already launched.
For example, the B-Tensors and also Aero.
And also a lot of the projects.
They have already tried Aero.
For almost three years or four years.
But for the design project, I think for the earliest now,
it's about VitaDAO, ResearchCoin, and also MalikraDAO, HigherDAO, right?
They are still young and built on the Ethereum
and the base.
They are very...
We are so young.
So I think for this year
it's about
100 billion US dollars.
Yes, total market cap for DCI.
And what do you think the primary narrative is?
Is it more publishing with
Research Hub? Do you think it primary narrative is? Is it more publishing with Research Hub?
Do you think it's funding with bioprotocol, ownership with Molecule, or a combination of all three?
Yeah, I mean, that is the total. Total is $100 billion now.
But my another point of view is that this side is not care about the bull or bear.
Because the D side is for addressing more and more people into the crypto.
You know, because previously, without the D side,
we just can't attract people from the background of the computer science, finance, and also arts, right?
You know, you know, you know, the mapping sectors.
But now the DSA is blooming.
DSA is getting bigger.
So we can attract more and more different major people like engineering and like neuroscience
engineering and like neuroscience or physics, chemistry.
or physics, chemistries.
So this one is, you know, this is the D side will trigger the real muscle adoption.
The real muscle adoption.
So if we are getting more and more people, we are not afraid about the bear or bull. I think in maybe five years, maybe coming for five years, the D-Sci will be $1,000 billion, maybe, U.S. dollar.
But it needs time.
It needs time.
Because for a lot of the science projects, they need time to really discover or develop the correlated
project. It's not like the computer science. It's not like
AI. You can launch AI in five minutes.
You can train a machine learning model maybe in one day
for the big model. This is about the
pace of the science but i'm very
optimistic about design because we are bringing the people here yes this is the real must adoption
yes yeah and the one thing i will say is uh i work at a main main university here in the united states
i've been trying to talk to administration to accept stablecoins for research payments.
We had a researcher that did get a grant from AthenaDAO, and they just had no policy.
Trying to get the money was very difficult.
You know, university politics, it takes forever to do things.
It happens to be the same one that the Hankinson lab is at.
So I'm sure everyone's familiar with Siki and what blew up on Christmas Day.
But he was able to give a fairly sizable donation to Todd Hankinson.
And almost the day after, CU has webpages now ready to accept donations in Bitcoin, Ethereum, stablecoins, almost anything you can think of.
So I think that's really a good story that money talks.
As soon as the university saw that there was a benefit, they're kind of getting gears in motion to get ready to work with this Rails.
gears in motion to get ready to work with this this rails
yeah that sounds great but if you want to make a stable con for especially for
funding the research it will be has some regulation is right because the the most
common fun from fund for the research
is from the National Institute or some organization,
the official organizations.
I still considering that because for crypto,
it's about the one-guard experiment for any of the sector.
For example, the AI agent in crypto now has no boundary,
you know, it is like they grow very fiercely without the ethical issue, without the financial
regulation issue, and also without the technology restriction issues. So my understanding is that the crypto is the one-guard experiment for the real Web2 sectors.
So DSAI is also a one-guard experiment for the real hardcore technology or hardcore science development. So we actually, we are all the, you know, like a lab, live guys, you know.
We are doing the experiment, the WANGA experiment,
because we have no hypothesis for our crypto WANGA experiment.
We don't know what kind of things will happen, right?
We have no assumptions.
A lot of people said that crypto is the social experiment.
I don't agree with that.
Because a lot of things in crypto is new.
Without assumption, we don't know what will happen tomorrow, right?
It is very hard to project what is the real things will happen.
So we are all doing
the one-guard experiment so this is my will this is my point of view yes
yeah a lot of my people my friend coming here from side have community they're listening
that's great welcome everyone
yeah actually so why i'm telling that this side your brain will trigger the mass adoption
for crypto because that uh you know so the normal people from Web2, they actually know the memes first.
Then it's about the, you know, the specific project, right?
If you tell a professor, you know, from Web2 or from university,
did you ever hear a research coin, I can pay you $150 for peer review?
Maybe they would be interested, but it is hard
to get them involved, right? So that's actually a narrative that I'm going to start pushing back on.
I've taken this to a lot of colleagues at the university. $150, it's not worth their time. They don't want
to do a review for $150. They don't have the time. It's just not, I haven't been able to get
any traction at the University of Colorado. Nobody wants to do that. Really? Why bro? Why?
It's $150. It's not worth, they are drowning in time like time is their most
valuable asset they have to complete grants they have uh requirements to fulfill in order to go
from assistant to associate professor you have to be on committees you have to be on committees. You have to be on faculty appointmentships. You have to be co-director of things. You, I mean, time is your most valuable asset. And $150 to spend, you know, two to three hours, you have to do a good job on a review. It's going to take a couple hours. You can't put garbage reviews out there and risk ruining your reputation.
hours. You can't put garbage reviews out there and risk ruining your reputation. So it's a
significant time commitment and they just don't have it. Do you think that's the target audience
though? Because I know like one of their recent examples that they've shared a couple times is, I think, a scientist professor from maybe Brazil,
somewhere in South America, and they were saying how this very much is worth their time.
So I think it could also depend on what scientific system someone is operating under.
I think that's true.
And I do think it's very good to get people,
because there are people that become experts in,
I can think of a few different avenues.
Hairdow, they become more experts at hair loss than 99% of the doctors out there.
Parents of children with rare diseases
become 100% experts,
more than 99% of the doctors out there.
There is a room for it,
but $150 for these faculty professors at the university
isn't going to be the route for that avenue.
I think maybe for certain ones, but also I think it could create a really interesting
opportunity to your point of like parents of someone with a rare disease.
Like when I was in high school, I was invited to teach at continuing medical education seminars
where doctors, neurologists from all over the country, all over the world were coming
in for this.
And I'm a high schooler, but because I had a certain condition and dove into all of that,
I actually knew a lot more about this particular kind of corner than a lot of these specialists.
So I think that is a good point that there might be certain other kind of archetypes or personas
that have this unique expertise that I think it might open up the door for them to be able to participate whereas before
There is no avenue for for that really besides kind of one-off situations. Yep, exactly
Yeah, so as you said right, you know for
persuading a
a traditional professor or researchers for notice that the DSA is a chance is hard, right?
traditional professor or researchers for
They value their reputation and value their time because they can do more contribution
to their specific domain, right?
That is why I, you know, I'm thinking about this question.
So when people know the crypto, they bitcoin first they know btc first or
they know the doggy coin first that is the questions right so that is why we need a huge
legendary meme you know which is the which is maybe about the movement or about some missions
which is maybe about the movement or about some missions and to attract more people.
That is, I'm doing things.
I'm actually, I'm the one of the leaders from the Sci-Hub communities.
You guys must use the Sci-Hub, right?
I don't know.
Sci-Hub, Alexandra Albakian.
It's for free, downloading the paper.
You know that, right?
You know that, right? You know that, right?
So that is how we build, how we trigger the real mass adoption.
I think the key point is to pump the Sci-Hub because Sci-Hub has, I think it's 80 million users, 80 million users from all of the researchers and engineers from the world, right?
Can you talk through the connection of the token to the actual Sci-Hub platform that, like so many scientists, myself, we've all used that?
I'll use that.
Can you share some of that connection?
Yes, yes.
Because the Sci-Hub token is supported,
officially supported by the Alexandra now.
She is using the Sci-Hub meme token
to accept the donations.
Previously, we all know the Elsev the the alexandra right few years
ago is about is about 13 million u.s dollar but i think that yes we are connecting we are
transformed transformed some uh 18 million people from sidehub We are trying a lot of ways, you know.
Alexandra has already posted an announcement that tells each
researchers from the world that you, okay, I joined with the Sci-Hub meme
token communities and everybody can buy some Sci-Hub and to support me and leave some for the future
pumping. Alexandra said that. You can check her Twitters. And another way is that we want to
develop some products that can make more Sci-Hub users to actually, you know,
use the Sci-Hub token to do something.
For example, that before the 2021,
and Alexandra still has some money
and also still can, you know, hack some publishers' papers
and upload to the Sci-Hub for free knowledge, right?
But after 2021,
this thing is stopped it. And you can notice that because I'm from the field of physics,
I want to see some papers from nature physics, but cannot be downloaded from the Sci-Hub.
After 2021, all the new papers is not included in the Sci-Hub.
So we actually donate 20% of the Sci-Hub meme token to Alexandra
and to support her to maybe buy some knowledge from other websites
and upload to the Sci-Hub.
We tried a lot of way
but you know for we did I have mean token community is just formed by not
even two months it's one and a half months so it's still very early stage so
that is why we want to trigger these things yeah as the shrimp said you know talk to professor to spend a few hours
to earn 150 rc token it is very hard it is very hard because for if the professor got the tenure
right they are very busy they need to run their labs and getting funds from the National Institute and also manage
the student, pushing the PhD student to publish more, right? They're very busy. So that is why I
think if we want to pump the D-Sci, we need to support the Sci-Hub and let more and more people set that this side, it can really help the world a better place.
It can help the world to achieve the free knowledge, to bring the knowledge to everyone.
So that is why I support Sci-Hub most.
I also buy a lot of the other design coins.
I also buy a lot of the other Deci coins.
But I think SightHub is actually a movement,
global knowledge freedom movement.
It actually is a movement, right?
Alexandra fight for the knowledge freedom for even 14 years, right?
Always fighting for it.
But she is alone.
Now she's not alone.
She has the community to help her to promote
the spirit of knowledge freedom.
So now I think that we can make these things better.
Guys, if you want to support Sci-Hub,
please give me your Solana wallet.
And I can airdrop some SyHub tokens to you guys.
Yes.
Yes.
Me, Desai Mike, and also Shren.
Give me your Solana wallet.
I'm actually woefully ignorant about SyHub.
I'm just now kind of digging into it.
It just looks...
What is this? Can you kind of give into it. It just, it looks, what is this?
Can you kind of give me an over 10,000 foot summary
of the project?
Summary about the project?
So it's open source.
So hold on, I'm trying to read the website.
Do you mean the main website?
Yeah, like what is Sci-Hub?
I don't know if I know Sci-Hub. So Sci-Hub is the platform to basically get access to any scientific article that's normally behind a paywall.
So it basically makes research possible that otherwise would have been completely prohibitive for people to just find whatever different articles or people's casual
curiosities. It's, yeah, it's an incredible website. It's been around for quite a while.
And I definitely agree with what Dr. Yu was saying of like, this platform, this website, this project is, it's more than just a website, like people
who, it's been shut down many different times in many different countries, but constantly has been
able to pop back up. Sometimes like the ending of the website has changed a little bit to allow
that, but this, I think, has enabled a lot of science to be able to
be conducted just through that actual alignment with open access.
This is one of the downsides about being in the institutions, since I have access to everything
and had absolutely no idea that something like this existed.
absolutely no idea that something like this existed.
Yeah.
Yes.
Yes.
Yeah.
I have already said to you personally about the SightHub founder,
Alexandra, you know, support the SightHub token.
So how is this going to work?
Because I know NIH,
and I don't know how this works on the global scale with everyone,
but I know NIH has new rules that all federally funded
research needs to be publicly accessible. They are going to have, I think it's like a six month
embargo on it, on the publication, but eventually if it is funded by NIH or NSF funding,
it is going to have to be accessible to the public.
Is that retroactive?
Ooh, that's a good question.
I don't know about that.
But you know why?
This has come to a very fundamental philosophy question.
Why the world needs to be decentralized?
Why does science need to be decentralized?
That is the great question, right?
What is your perspective, guys?
So why we need de-sci?
It's not just a new narrative, right?
It's not only just a new narrative for crypto,
but what is the meaning of these yeah for me i think it's it's a flywheel
where we use science to make money and make betterments to plug back in to make more
advancements basically taking the if you want to call it from dune the golden path dow or
you know think about taking a long-term view of our future and planning for the future and allowing science to become a flywheel of innovation so that we have perpetual capital allocation.
We have more than we need and we can just continuously develop and keep going.
It's a huge flywheel for humanity.
Yeah, for humanity, right?
So what is your perspective, Ms. Mac, Ms. Desai Mac? Yeah, I think DSI is really like the intersection of accelerating science through the means of people coordination and technology.
just the things that get pushed aside from the traditional system, whether that's more
rare diseases, more complex diseases. I'm personally really passionate about the more
health applications of it, but this could also be applied to a more environmental perspective or other types of science as well. I think it can also enable
more interdisciplinary folks to be able to participate in science. And if we look at
throughout all of history, the biggest contributors to the advancement of the world,
the advancement of discovery of science. Many of them were these
multifaceted individuals, and the current approach just really kind of pigeonholes people, and I
think a lot of creativity and discovery and innovation is lost due to needing to hyper-specialize
into one specific idea and not being exposed to other perspectives.
DSI also comes into play with that, of just creating greater connectivity across different
fields, as well as different geographies, different perspectives, all of that.
Yeah, to me, it's really that connection that enables us and that ties into just
network technological connections as well.
Yeah, yeah.
And I want to say my point of view for the meaning of Deci to this world.
Because when we talk about the Deci's meaning,
we need to talk about the meaning of crypto.
You know, the representative of crypto
is Bitcoin, right?
Bitcoin is fight for
the people's financial
freedom.
You know, because the Bitcoin is
threatening the national
coin or
national currency, right?
Because the national currency
is, they are making more and more currency every year
to squeeze the value from people.
They are increasing more tax.
They are increasing more, you know,
they are increasing the price of the groceries, right?
To bully the people.
So that is why crypto,
the hero of crypto, Bitcoin,
is actually leading this sector
because they fight for people,
the authority of financial freedom.
So that is the bottom narrative
about Bitcoin, right? And I think, and also decentralized. so that is the bottom narrative about bitcoins
and also
decentralized
so why the world needs Ethereum
because Vitalik
create
a new network
infrastructures
the new internet
decentralized
not bullying the people's attentions and time, and gives the incentives back to people.
involving the people who, you know, researchers were, you know, for the science participant, who meet the unfair things.
Unfair, you know, a lot of the things, right, when, for example, their intellectual property, right, their papers.
their papers
why they need to
pay money
maybe nature or nature communications
and to publish their own
works
and why
they need to work freely
for the
journals or even the
conference for gaining
the reputations or keep publishing the papers
on a specific conference or journals why they why they why the the world bullied the researchers
or engineers the desire is to solve the unfair things in research field. So this is the bottom narrative is about, you know,
the production relationship.
Crypto is about solving the production relationship problems, right?
Bitcoin is about the national unfair.
Ethereum is about, you know, the network or the
web technology
unfair. Because Web2
products,
they need more and more people
involved and not paying
back to their times.
And for the D side,
it's about solving the
unfair production relationship.
We all know that for the academia system, it's about the power system, right?
The lorry, the big professors, the tenure, they are bullying a lot of the researchers and students every single day.
This is for the academia system itself, right? And also, out of the academia,
a lot of the companies, they use, they steal the ideas from the specific papers or patents and to create their products for earnings, right?
The design is to solve the unfair things
in research and development.
So that is why I chose Sci-Hub to build that.
Because Sci-Hub fight for the unfair things in academia.
14 years.
That is the most attractive and the most right thing in crypto space.
So that is my point is that the Sci-Hub actually can represent the D-Sci spirit
to fight for the knowledge freedom,
to bring knowledge for people, right? Deci spirit to fight for the knowledge freedom to
Bring knowledge for people right because you know if the knowledge is not free. I'm a Chinese. I cannot learn English
To communicate with you guys
It is very horrible Right without the knowledge freedom. That is I'm nothing, you know, yes
Yes, go ahead. Oh, I'm nothing, you know? Yes. Yes. Go ahead.
Oh, I was going to say, I completely agree.
I think that's one of my biggest fears right now is I see what's going on with
AI and precision and personalized medicine.
And most of the research that we do are on only the super wealthy that can
afford to fund the research to do the research that we do on them.
And I am terrified that we are going to reach a point that AI is going to figure out and help
figure out some ways to help people live longer, better lives. But that's going to be reserved for the wealthy and it's not going to be distributed
fairly to absolutely everybody.
That's kind of one of my biggest fears at the moment is precision medicine is the ultimate
public good that should be available to everybody.
Yes, yes, yes.
Go ahead.
Sorry. Hey guys, no, I. Go ahead. Sorry.
Hey, guys. No, I just jumped in here.
So I haven't gotten the full context of this conversation,
but I do see the title.
Just quickly, do you guys hear me well?
Maybe share...
Sounds good.
Okay, cool. Yeah. Thank you.
Thank you for letting me up on the stage.
Maybe I can quickly introduce my project
so it makes a little bit more sense why I jumped in.
So I'm one of the devs of Dark Sun.
I joined Dark Sun.
The Dark Sun Twitter account has joined the space too
so you can see the project there.
And we're actually usually in the AI agentic spaces.
So we're kind of in a different Twitter community.
We spent a lot of time with the ELISA framework,
the AI16z spaces, we joined those a lot. But I the ELISA framework, the AI16Z spaces.
We joined those a lot.
But I thought maybe I'd just jump in over, because I know I've seen DSI, Mike.
I've seen you guys do some spaces before, so I thought we'd jump in.
We're essentially building an AI internet research or AI internet researcher.
We call it a digital archaeologist. And how DeSci falls into that is just recently we announced
with the token funds and we were sponsoring an expedition
into Panama to help save an endangered language.
This is just like a very, very first step for us,
but we want to kind of get into actually decentralized archaeology
and also decentralized space. This all gets tied together through a meme,
which is this conspiracy theory around the nemesis sun, which is like the, you know,
conspiracy theory around there being a binary sun in our solar system. But a lot of things kind of
fall back to that. Like, oh, why are these civilizational cycles, you know, the rise and falls of civilizations in the past? And like,
there's a fun story with NASA. But anyway, archaeology for a long time, you know, it's kind
of like a lowercase-esque science, right? It's been very qualitative. You know, it's very expert
based. It's gatekept. And it's actually been hard to
turn that into an interdisciplinary field, where you start bringing in very data heavy stuff. So
even the introduction of like ground penetrating radar, or a lidar and stuff like this, with drones
with lidar, you're now getting a more quantitative feel. And that kind of opens up the space for citizen scientists as well and projects like ours.
So we essentially, if you guys are familiar with pump science, we want to be like the
pump science of archaeology.
And so based on certain market caps, we'll do progressively more ambitious projects.
And it's all kind of tied together by this meme coin.
So yeah, thank you.
Thank you guys for having me up on here.
And maybe I can contribute to this conversation.
I hope I can.
Yeah, that's awesome.
Thanks so much for jumping in.
One of the intentions with this space
is for people from different backgrounds
to be able to share what they're working on and
also bridge those connections especially if people might typically be having or in different types of
spaces. This sounds like a really interesting project. I might recommend connecting with
Causality Network which is focused on the verification of different data.
And with some of those different measurements that would be done in archaeology, especially kind of starting to, this discovery actually happened at this location, actually happened on this particular dig, let's say.
So, yeah, there might be some interesting collaboration with Causality.
They're one of the other speakers on here right now.
And that's actually one of the things I was hoping to ask Erin.
I know we have 10 minutes remaining. She's so entrenched in everything. She knows absolutely everything. I was going to ask her. I did see Causality Network come up. I think that is coming out of Muse Matrix, if I'm not mistaken or somewhat connected.
mistaken or somewhat connected. And I was hoping, like, everyone seems to be circling this,
this is absolutely a need. How does this fit with the Desai world proof of knowledge? Is this
a lot of people circling the same drain in different ways and different branding?
Are they complementary to each other? How does this all fit in the ecosystem?
Yeah, so I guess just connecting some of the different dots. Behind the mic here talking
right now is Erin. I brought myself up, so if anyone wants to connect on any of this,
feel free to click over to that profile. I'm one of the co-founders of Muse Matrix. We run a DSCI
fellowship program, and one of the first projects incubated out of it was Causality Network, which
is up here on stage as well. And Causality is really focused on verification, so really leaning
into don't trust, verify, and the aim with that is to unlock the creator economy of science.
So a lot of what we were talking about earlier of citizen scientists coming into the arena and being able to participate,
of people not being pigeonholed into just one domain, of people that might have a scientific background, but they might have a base in a
country that doesn't have as much credential within the traditional academic scientific
ecosystem, so they haven't been able to be given different opportunities. With causality, it's a protocol that integrates with hardware
that is conducting scientific experiments to prove the provenance and validity of that data,
of that experiment. So it would attest my sequencing data?
Yes. Yeah. And this is really tying into one of the biggest problems in science, which is the
reproducibility crisis, where one in seven papers are fraudulent, where 60% of published
papers can't be reproduced on average.
And so much of discovery and knowledge is being claimed as truth once it gets published,
but that might not actually be true.
And then on the flip side, all of this time and energy is spent on different individuals
and organizations just trying to recreate the same experiment to know if they can use
it as a foundation of what they might want to
do next. So I guess tying this back together, causality can really integrate with a lot of
these other platforms. It is at that raw data level. So it's a precursor of data that might
be funneled into different AI ML models or data sets that might be tied to some type of publication platform
or as some of the bio DAOs are creating more data of their own, then it can have legitimacy,
especially as they might want to play in different traditional scientific pharmaceutical domains as
well. And also with lab equipment becoming a lot more
affordable, people can 3D print different materials for experiments. All of this can
come into play of those people being able to participate in science in this more interoperable way. Okay, that makes much more sense.
Yes, we just talked about,
I just talked about this causality map
a few hours ago, bro.
Yes, at DSA Weekly.
Yes, actually, I think that now
the DSA is very small, right?
We need to cooperate together.
Because I have an interesting data shared with you guys.
For example, the token holders of Research Hub token
is not reached to 100,000.
It's maybe just 30,000, the token holder of RSA.
And for the VitaDAO, it's below this one.
But for the pump signs, it's near to $30,000, right?
And I think for the byproducts listing the day after tomorrow, I think for the token holder of DeSai products,
will be 10 times more.
10 times more.
So that is the,
I think the year of 2025
is the year of the AI agent on DeSai.
And DeSai,
because I'm also a player for the AI agents.
It's a very good project, actually.
And for maybe next time, maybe,
because SightHapp community is launching a supporting initiative
because we want to support the people who are the ama for d side with the side have incentives
so please feel free to talk with me if you need the side have donations to host the design
to host the design space and the side have will support you guys yes yes so please give me your Solana wallet shrimp and miss
design Mike yes and this is for the first incentive about the side hub from
side hub communities for supporting that decide to get him bigger and bigger yes
we're on change Solana wallet. Okay.
Yes.
I will transfer the Saib token to you immediately.
Yes.
Amazing.
Really so many cool things happening in Desai and a lot of great token swaps across the board
if anyone wants to join
in the last minute or has a last minute question
feel free to post a comment down below
I see a couple requests so I'll bring those up.
Welcome.
Yes.
Hey, Pamela.
Hmm, I think we lost her.
Maybe she'll be able to come back up sometime soon.
But Pamela is the founder of Desai Mexico, which is an incredible Desai community in Mexico.
And welcome back.
Pamela, feel free to DM me what you're trying to say, and I can try and be a verbal voice if you're, are you able to, go ahead. It keeps kicking you off somehow.
Maybe it will work now?
Yeah, I'm not sure why it's not working properly, but I want to say that it will be a visa year.
Absolutely.
And also like this, oh my God.
We could hear you. Keep going.
I spoke too soon.
I spoke too soon.
We lost her.
We lost her.
But yes, it definitely will be a DSA year this year.
And I think there will be so many.
Okay.
But the project or the presentations.
Okay, so sorry.
Yeah, only I want to say that it will be a DISA year and also in DISA Mexico we are pushing
forward the movement and this year is the second time that we are going to add the DISA
track in ETH Cinco de Mayo.
So we are going to have our DISA day and we are going to publish everything the next week.
And also if you want to collaborate with us like a sponsor or in a track because we want to spread
the DCI World and the DCI thinking in Mexico. And we want to do our research, free research
here in Mexico and give the opportunities to the the master PhD students and scientists to do science without barriers so yeah
this is our alpha in design Mexico so we are going to participate with a design
day in the H5 de Mayo here in Mexico City and you are invited to attend
Erin knows that Mexico is a good place to go forward into the movement. So,
yeah, thank you everyone for all the shares that... How to support
Design Mexico? Pamela, right? How to support? You gave me uh wallet address and i can support you right yeah
yeah absolutely and also if you want i mean you want to put a track or maybe talk more about your
talking or or maybe in publishing are um on all the things that you are working on you can give a
are working on you can give a live conference or maybe give some stickers you know information for
the mexican people that is interested in this side so yeah and i will share the wallet if you
want to help also it's very helpful yeah yeah yeah of course yes of course. But I cannot DM you, Pamela.
Yeah.
I cannot DM you.
I don't know why.
You need to follow me back.
Absolutely.
Amazing.
Super excited for what else is coming to you,sai there are a couple other people who joined
the stage up here recently would love to hear from you uh if you're able to speak right now
testing can you guys hear me all right welcome awesome yeah thanks for inviting me up. Just two quick things, I suppose.
What are the rules with the Jumbotron?
Can I share something?
Is that all right?
Is it DSI related?
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Okay, then, yes.
It's a little bit old now, but you'll be able to see that.
But I did an interview on my podcast with Desai World.
If you guys know those guys, Desai World.
I've just shared it to the Jumbotron now.
It was actually episode one of my podcast.
So, yeah, if you guys are interested in Desai World, check that out.
interested in in these our DCI world check that out I'd appreciate it and but the other thing I
I'd appreciate it.
wanted to mention is and it's not really a project I think that's been created yet just sort of
throwing the idea out there maybe you guys will like it maybe have some feedback essentially I
had this idea for you know having researched uh a lot of like sports science nutritional science
um in the past uh and then you know sort of experimenting myself with uh things i've you
know found on the internet things i've read in spiritual texts, religious texts, and just thinking about that whole idea of,
this whole idea of like lost sort of medicines or, you know, like biological technologies,
whatever you want to call it, not to get too, you know, woo-woo with it.
But I had this idea.
Now we've got AI and machine learning and all this kind of stuff.
I thought it'd be interesting if we could create like a, let's call it a glossary of terms, right?
Of, you know, things that would have been said in the past or ways that things would have been described in terms of their healing properties or the mechanisms behind them.
If we could get kind of a glossary and then get AI to find patterns
when it comes to what the kind of modern terms for those things are,
then maybe we could discover old medicines or old healing practices
that have kind of been forgotten about and left by the wayside,
if that makes any sense.
So an example of this, a really easy example,
just to sort of solidify my point because I don't know how well I explained it there.
Take fasting, right?
Past couple of years, everyone's heard about it if you're into science
and you're you're at least into like the body you know or you're into health uh then you all
know about fasting you all know about all the progress that's been made there how many thousands
of years has that been in religious texts right people have been practicing that for ages and so
you know all these things like germ theory right people used to go oh there's
demons demons get passed you know from one person to the other there's a spirit some kind of
negative evil spirit right but what they're actually notice notice in empirically right
they were noticing something they might have described the mechanism wrong um and also but
even even in noticing that they might have applied some medicines, you know,
some herbs or some kind of physical practice that aided in the recovery of that person,
you know, while they were suffering from these quote-unquote demons. And so, yeah, I thought
that would be really valuable. I don't know what you guys think about that. Let me know if that
made sense. I hope the fasting example was a good one. It's quite an obvious one.
You know, there's obviously everyone knows religions practice fasting or meditation for mental health.
Another great example. Something that's been talked about for thousands of years.
Science is now coming around to it. They're saying, oh, they're seeing, yeah, actually, it's like on all the metrics. It's like one of the best things you can do for your mental health. Same with exercise, etc, etc. So yeah, that's the idea I wanted to throw out there.
for kind of that collection through anecdotal stories or and also from different maybe more
indigenous communities or tribes that are still actively practicing and being able to get
recognition for some of those different approaches as well. One of my favorite examples along the lines of what you were sharing is just vampires
and how like the common story of, oh, if you have garlic, it will keep vampires away. And
it's like, okay, maybe this pale individual has some type of an infection and that's why they look super pale and garlic has anti-fungal
antibacterial like all of these different properties to help people
anti-cancer anti-inflammatory and so yeah antibacterial it's great yeah i like that
example it's another one of my favorite ones too. Yeah. Yeah. And I think there's,
there's so much that is now just getting kind of repurposed to what you were
saying of meditation or gratitude,
even like that's been prayer or other types of chanting or other practices
like that in many different religions.
So I think there could definitely be an opportunity
for that in DSI. At Muse Matrix, we have cohorts of people who can propose different ideas and
then collectively support the build out of that. So that's one route. Otherwise, with anything from Juicebox to Doubt.Fun to just Twitter.
I think there's a lot of mechanisms to be able to find other people
into these different DSI themes to get things moving.
And now that more of the crypto mindshare has heard of DSI,
I think a lot more support and attention can go towards these, all of these different ideas now.
But yeah, I think there's a lot of opportunity there.
Thanks. Yeah, I appreciate it.
I think probably all you need, I say all, it's not like a simple task, but just some kind of, you know know machine learning algorithm that would essentially just
create or notice you know patterns or correlation or similarities between concepts that's what it
really needs like I mentioned about the you know like the demon or the spirit or something and
as long as it can kind of create an association between oh demon and spirit is basically a germ or a virus or some kind of infection you know
um as long as it can kind of do that and then you essentially just need to
need to scan in a lot a bunch of texts a bunch of you know like old or like you said like maybe um you know uh like tribal or
hunter-gatherer people's kind of uh medical journals things like that if if you know if
those are available and just put in as much data as you can just get it to find these associations
um again not not as simple as i'm making it sound, obviously. But at least, you know, in theory, on paper, it's a simple idea.
Anyway, yeah, thanks for allowing me up.
Yeah, thanks for joining.
Definitely will check out the podcast you had posted above.
DCI World is a great organization in the space, so if anyone isn't yet
familiar with them, definitely go check them out as well. Give them a follow. I know they have some
exciting things they're starting to share out with the world a bit more and a lot more under the
radar to come. Amazing. Well, I think we've covered a lot of really great projects and updates
and also have had some good discussions in the space. CyberCup fans, I know you came up before,
would love to give you some space as well, if you're available.
if you're available.
Yeah, thank you.
Thank you for hosting this amazing space.
It's very good.
I know you guys.
And I will attend each Wednesday, right?
After my space.
After my space.
Okay, that's very great.
For anyone new, this is a Desai space that's been going on every Wednesday at this time.
So it started about an hour 15 minutes ago, 5 p.m. UTC.
So we'd love to have you come tune back in next week and all the weeks to come. If you have
a topic that you would like to be discussed, to hear different people's perspectives on,
to learn more about, or if you have something you're working on in the DSI space that you want
to share with the broader community, definitely out um to the dc mic account
here or to myself uh i'm aaron one of the other speakers up here um or crypto shrimp as well and
we can definitely get you on the list uh for an upcoming space we also have a telegram group
we also have a telegram group
so I'll pin that
up above
oh you have telegram
please share with me
yeah I think
yeah while I find that
if anyone has any other closing thoughts
then I'll post that in the comments down below
so everyone can join.
CryptoShrimp, any last comments?
No, I think I'm good. Sorry, I've got to be a little quiet. I've got the baby now.
All good. Thanks so much.
Pamela, how about you?
All you say, thank you.
Thank you,
for this space.
Amazing.
And Dr.
thanks so much for joining.
If you're interested in following more with one of the projects or quite a few of the
projects that we talked about here,
definitely go look up at the highlighted or pinned tweets up above.
And we'd love to have you contribute into DSi.
I didn't grab the telegram link.
So give DSi Mike a follow and I'll post that in just a moment from the main
account.
In the meantime,
hope you have a great week.
Happy new year's and. Happy New Year's.
Yes.
Happy New Year's, everybody.
Yes, see you back here next week.
Yeah, see you next week.
And, you know, I want to share my expertise,
the real expertise.
It's not doing the research
because my research topic is AI for science.
But my real expertise is to pump your project price.
I have a lot of friends from Ethereum Well, Solana Well, and also BNB Well.
If you need me to share your coins, I will like, you know, 20,000 or even 50,000 of the people to support
your project. This is my real magic here. The pumping the price like Ansem and Murad.
Call me D-side Murad. Yeah.
Call me Desai Murad.
Yeah.
Amazing.
Definitely could use kind of wider promotion
of a lot of the different Desai projects.
So I think that could definitely come in handy.
Amazing.
We'll keep sharing Desai.
Keep pushing the space forward.
I pinned down below the Telegram community group.
So come join us over on Telegram to stay connected in between each of our weekly sessions.
And we'll be back here same time next week.
Happy New Year.
Have a great day.
See you soon.
