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DeSci Rising | Ep 4 | CancerDAO
Recorded: April 3, 2025 Duration: 1:11:19Space Recording
Short Summary
CancerDAO is revolutionizing cancer care by leveraging AI and blockchain technology to create an open-source cancer database, fostering community-driven solutions and partnerships with pharmaceutical companies. With a rapidly growing community of over 3,000 members, the initiative aims to empower patients and enhance cancer research, addressing the urgent need for innovative approaches in healthcare.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Hello, hello. hello hello
hey how are you i'm doing good joshan how are you doing
pretty good pretty good sorry i'm still only probably another
no it's okay it's okay we usually start the spaces yeah we start the spaces early
just for people to come and settle in so you have you have a few minutes it's okay. It's okay. We usually start the spaces. Yeah, we start the spaces early just for people to come in, set in. So you have a few minutes. It's fine. Take your time.
Okay, that's fine. I'm just watching. I can still talk.
Okay, cool. Well, again, we'll still wait a little bit and just let people kind of come in. Usually this is a bit early for our normal spaces, which is, it's fine so we just let people take their time
to kind of get in and we can kick it off
Okay, sure
Are you a country based in the US?
Like in New York?
Yeah, so I'm
on the eastern, I'm in Canada
but I'm in the eastern time zone
so we're just above New York
Nice
Have you been told to the HR recently? so we're just above new york
it's a bit hard to hear you oh okay um how about now is that better yeah yeah okay i'll Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I'll just talk a little bit about it.
Okay.
Yeah.
So I was just asking you, do you have plans to come to Asia this year?
Yeah, I do.
Specifically for in Korea.
So there's the Desai Seoul event that they put on for the first time last year, um, with Ethan and Hippocrat.
So definitely one of the ones where I think I'll be present, but otherwise there are a few other
ones. Like I, I always, I always enjoy going to Taiwan, um, for the Taiwan blockchain week and
funding the commons, but we haven't solidified any particular, uh, destinations or, or activities
beyond those ones. so I'm open to
whatever is around I'd love to participate Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
I know Eva is also a host of events over there.
Okay.
It's getting harder to hear you.
There's a lot of noise in the background.
Okay.
One more minute
Hello, hello folks.
Mikey, Serena, oh, Serena, you're from CancerDow itself.
So this, we're waiting for just for Yoshan to get to a place with a little bit of better
connection or less noise in the background.
And then we'll kick this off.
But this space is really to be one where it's pluralistic.
We want people to chime in as we get to learn more about cancer down to just give different perspectives.
So if anybody wants to come up, um, interject, please just feel free to put in a request and I'll bring you guys up.
Um, but we'll kick this off in about a couple of minutes.
Once you O'Shawn comes, comes back. Thank you. you hey it's at just waiting on uh our guests to get to a better location uh to start speaking with us
so hang tight as i was saying others, this is an open space.
So if there's ever a desire to come up and ask questions or interject
or just join the conversation,
just feel free to put in a request and we'll bring you up. Thank you. Thank you. yeah sean are you back with us uh yeah yeah 30 seconds okay cool so i'll kick it off with our
normal little intros don't worry about it so hello everybody and this will be uh relevant for for people watching the recordings afterwards and when we put out clips but hello
everybody my name is jelani and welcome to season two episode five of the dc rising series put on
by dc world where our goal is always to provide an opportunity for many of the wonderful projects
on our growing dc world dashboard to just formally introduce themselves, update their
progress, highlight their achievements, and just generally engage with both the DSI World, but also
wider DSI community, right? The goal being that, you know, behind all of that is DSI, and particularly
at DSI World, and I'm sure for sure at CancerDAO, we very much believe that more than the tech,
more than the funding, more than the funding,
it is the community leveraging these tools that will usher in many of the changes that
we're all looking for D-Sci to bring to the various legacy STEM industries.
Now, on today's episode, I have the pleasure of speaking with somebody I consider to be
somewhat of a D-Sci OG, Yoshan, founder of CancerDAO and a number, active in a number
of different places, D-Sci Sino, Avanasi, apparently, you know, across the Asia ecosystem and broader ecosystem.
And we're here to talk about CancerDow, which is a community that is leveraging AI and Web3 to build an open source cancer database to empower community driven cancer care and prevention. And I really like to focus on prevention because I think this is where D-Sci really
has an opportunity to shine is, can we start to aggregate data and look at prophylactic
things that the current medical industry doesn't really focus on?
So with all that being said, welcome, Yojan.
It's great to have you.
I think it's the first time that we've ever spoken like thoroughly.
And thank you for taking the time to help us learn more about cancer now.
Josh, are you there?
Might be having some, some technical difficulties I'm going to ping him up Serena if, if you can ping Yoshaan,
or if you want to come up to speak as well,
that would be great.
Give me a second while I ping Yoshan on Telegram. Oh, seems like we had a disconnect. Thank you. Thank you. Sean, are you back?
Yes, I can hear you.
Oh my God, I'm so sorry.
I think my VPN was disconnected automatically somehow.
No, it's okay.
It's always a tech bug.
That's fine. So we did a little intro explaining what The Space is about.
Just wanted to thank you for taking the time to meet with me.
I think a great way to start it off is just a little bit of an introduction about yourself.
So The Space is as much a showcase of CancerDAO itself or the project itself, but also the team.
Because that's arguably what's more important
is the people behind the actual project.
So I'd love to learn about your backstory,
where you came from in terms of your journey to start CancerDow.
Okay, sure.
Yeah, I think I mentioned a little bit.
I'm not sure if you're hearing.
So I started, I was really passionate about community-driven science since
I was in my PhD. So I wrote a perspective paper with my advisor during my PhD talking about using
social network for next generation population. In 2020, I got to know Web3. I was amazed by this concept.
And that's exactly what I wanted to do, community-driven. And I participated in a research hub
in a very early stage, like in early 2022, and working with them as an editor.
And after I came back to China two years ago to take care of my dad because my dad was diagnosed with stage four conurectal cancer,
so I moved back to China to take care of him.
Meanwhile, I was thinking about how to, you know, what to do for the future.
I have been, you know, always thinking about this kind of decentralized science
and the community-driven science.
And I decided, okay, if I keep thinking about it,
why shouldn't I just start doing it?
That's how my official design journey started.
So last year, I started from building a Desai community
called Desai Sino, which is a community to promote Desai in Mandarin-speaking population.
And we have over a thousand members already, and we hosted more than 40 events, online saloon events, and more than 15 offline on-site events.
Especially two months ago in Hong Kong, during the consensus in Hong Kong,
we hosted a large DCI conference.
We had around 400 to 500 people showed up that day.
That was probably the biggest DCi conference I have ever attended.
Yeah, so that was amazing to see. There were so many people supporting Decii and interested in Decii.
And so later last year, we gathered a huge round, a huge number of people who are interested in design.
We decided, okay, well, we need to do something, a real project that kind of like you have
these people to start working on some like a real design project.
And CancerDial is the one we picked.
the one we picked. The reason for cancer, even though we started only later last year,
but I have been thinking about this for a long time since my dad was diagnosed two years ago.
And as a patient family member, I have been fighting with the disease with my dad during the past two and a half years and we know and
it's the whole process is painful frustrating and most importantly sometimes i felt we felt
we were just treating as customers uh you know by the hospitals and the biotechs even though they
are amazing uh a person like, and doctors are super helpful,
the pharmaceutical companies provided, created the drugs.
We really appreciate that, but we just feel,
sometimes we're kind of frustrated, especially last year.
I think that really one thing that really make me determine
to do cancer dial is after a few rounds of standard chemotherapy, the disease still resources and got to talk with the companies in five different channels.
We all got rejected by the company because they don't think we fit in their criteria for clinical trials.
clinical trials. Now that makes me wonder if we develop a drug, if the drug cannot save the
patient and we have the top priority, the top concerns is to get the better data together to
meet the regulations. That's not, you know, that's the game, that's the rule, we just can't accept it as a patient.
I can't just see my dad to die because of this, even though I think the drug will be
super beneficial for us.
That makes me really determined to do this kind of project to build this community-driven
cancer care and cancer prevention.
And you also mentioned what's the team behind it.
Luckily, when we want to talk about this issue with all the DESAI members and all the other DESAI guys,
they can resonate with me.
They believe me and they think it's a huge problem as well.
That's why they joined this project, including Serena, who is also on the space here.
She is from a finance background and she doesn't really have any scientific background,
but she believes uh she believes
in this i probably like i believe for her i and you know we can we can ask her to talk about her
experience in disassainment in cancer dog as well and i'm just super amazed by this group of people We also have other people, including AI cancer experts, Webster builders, investors, and also lawyers who are all believing what we're doing.
And they try to help.
Yeah, that's basically how this group of people got formed. We currently have
in the builder house, we have 41 people in the builder house. At the core team, we have 10
people in the core team from mostly on the science and the web3 side. Yeah, I think that's
the current team for the Cancerell. We definitely welcome more people
coming to join us as part of CancerDell to expand it. Currently, we are most Asian-focused,
but we really want to expand into other parts of the world, including the US, Canada, and also Europe as well, and also other parts of the world
including Africa, Latin America as well. Yeah, I think we really need to make it more a decentralized
global movement to bring the people, bring the patients and the public into this system.
Traditionally, they were left out.
They are a very big population.
They have a lot of strength, resources, and passion to solve the problem.
Yeah, that's what we think is the community-driven.
So you've touched on so many fantastic things.
So first of all, I want to congratulate you profusely for the success of your Desai track at Consensus in Hong Kong.
Telling me that there was a couple hundred individuals participating within a Desai event, I completely agree.
I think that's probably one of the biggest turnouts for a DCI-focused event,
Sidetrack or what have you. That is amazing. So congratulations for pulling that together.
I think that speaks to the resonance to your point, right? People resonate with
themes that affect them personally, whether it be cancer, whether it be science, you know,
there's a number of these things out there. There's a hunger for people that want to participate
where they can participate in ways that they could not previously participate.
And so much like with any of the other projects on the platform and many other projects that are building in this space, like kudos to you for even being, you know, taking the first steps to initiate and to galvanize that community.
galvanize that community. So that's fantastic. And yes, Desai Sino is another great example,
So that's fantastic.
speaking to the necessity to break down language barriers so that we can have this
congregation of mind power, of community, of people contributing. Again, it's fantastic for
that as well. And then, you know, for taking the steps to actually alleviate some of the problems
from a personal perspective,
given what you said about your dad, but how it translates to everybody else.
So this fantastic team, big up to yourself, big up to Serena as well,
somebody coming from a more financial background.
Like that's what we need for these kinds of projects. It's not just science, science, science, or web three, web three, web three.
We need a holistic view to build something that is not just impactful, but also sustainable.
So it can be impactful for the long run.
So it seems like you guys have quite a solid head
on your shoulders in terms of getting this community
up and running.
And I definitely do want to get into,
you mentioned a builder's house.
So you guys are actively building,
you mentioned AI and blockchain.
But one of those last things that you talked about
is something that is I think not
spoken about enough um or at least we're you know it's always good to shine a light on it and it's
your perspective of leveraging the power of the community right uh science is done in this very
sterile way for the most part like Like there are science, quote unquote, science leaders. There are accredited scientists for, from, if we're going to pull from scientific, from
financial speak.
And those are the ones that kind of orchestrate how science is done, but it leaves so much
off the table.
There are so many resources, people, data, power, money, financial, that is just left
off the table and we have not succeeded.
And so if you're going to, if you're at war with something, you need to really start to
pull in from as many different resources as possible, not just cap yourself at the knees
to say, we're only going to do it this way.
So I completely agree with you, right?
Like Desai offers an opportunity or these wider, more permissive frameworks offer an opportunity for other people to weigh in to kind of supercharge and fuel the engine of ideal impact.
And so, yeah, no, absolutely.
There's another project.
Sorry, there's another company that is focused on diverse data sets coming from european background um and you know uh north american
west east western europe uh sources these don't encapsulate the entirety of the human ecosystem
right of the human uh mosaic of humanity and so for an example of cancer and breast cancer we have
breast cancer panels most most cancers have panels, right?
So particular markers, biomarkers, or genomic markers that you look to assess whether this gives you a propensity for cancer.
But those are so limited because we've sourced it from such a limited capacity.
There may be other genes, other data points, other things that we've just completely overlooked that can give us better understanding of how cancer can progress, but then also how to make sure that we can do prevention,
right, by analyzing and seeing these things. So I imagine that you guys, like, I'd love to hear
more about what you guys are building and kind of your focus on expansion and including some of
these other regions outside of Asia into the cancer dial ecosystem. Yeah, yeah, I definitely agree. I think you brought up a very interesting point that
most of the data right now for scientific research or medical research are from the
European regions or the North American regions. And we were actually building something recently, we're trying to analyze the genomic data to predict the cancer
risks and for the polygenic disease scores. But when we look at the database, and so first of all,
before doing that, we have to build a baseline to predict the disease risk. But when we look at the database,
it's most of Europeans.
And most of our users or community members are from the Asia.
And we have a hard time, you know,
to accurately predict the Asian disease scores
for cancer by just using European database.
You know, that's, I think,
it's actually pointing out the problem in the research space. There are leaders
in this space, but I think they have their own interests. We were actually talking about this
recently. Even though I think, as I mentioned, I think the scientists, the doctors, and also those businessmen for the pharmaceutical companies,
they are amazing people to do great science
and to drive this along.
But the thing is, they have their own interests
at the end of the day which may not prioritize
the patient or the
public interest
they have to prioritize their own
interest I think this is normal
we can't believe them
we are all human beings
and we also prioritize our interest
in most of the cases
who can
prioritize the cancer,
the patient and the public interest?
Only they themselves can, right?
Only the patient will prioritize their interest,
you know, to save themselves,
save their own lives.
On the public, they want to prevent the cancer
for themselves.
They will prioritize this thing for themselves. You know, they cannot to prevent the cancer for themselves, they will prioritize this thing
for themselves. They cannot just rely on us. I think another big thing for Web3 is
we always hear is doing our own research. It's basically highlighting the responsibilities of
ourselves. We traditionally rely on too much on others, just rely on them to save us.
We just cannot do that anymore.
We have to save ourselves and taking care of ourselves.
I think that's another big motivation for the community is basically to save themselves.
And yeah.
No, yeah.
Yeah, right.
I think that's the key or the primary motivation for the community.
We are building this community, right?
And I think this is a top priority for us as well to build this community.
Now, there are a lot of other, like we talk about AI, we talk about data, and also we are doing that as well.
But we are, as a project or as a business orientated project, we have to think about our business. We try to compare ourselves with other traditional web 2 companies who are fantastic about building AI stuff
and building database, for example, Tempest AI, which is an amazing company
who is public listed on Nasdaq and they have a 13 billion market cap.
What they do is basically they license out those cancer patient data from the hospitals
and create AI and sell the AI to the pharmaceutical companies and work with them to develop precise
oncology therapy.
I think they are doing great,
but the problem is where are the patients?
Where are the public?
They have the patient data,
they have the public data,
but I don't think the patient
or the public are going to reward it
or get involved into
the operation,
we're not talking about operation, the business,
the whole pipeline, the whole thing of Tempus AI. They are missing. And we want to build a
web 3 version of this and prioritize the community. And that's why the first project or the first most important thing of CancerDial is the community.
And that's something we are actively building in the past few months.
And luckily we have probably one of the most active design communities right now.
We hosted a few events last month and we'll keep hosting events in the future.
We have more than 300, sorry, more than 3,000 community members as well. And we are also
helping patients already. We're already helping patients already. There,
I think it's mostly in the Mandarin speaking,
like Twitter users,
Web3 users.
So there was one patient,
like probably,
it was two weeks ago or three weeks ago.
And he basically,
he's a Web3 guy. he basically uh posted on twitter um saying uh
his uh girlfriend got diagnosed with late stage cancer and they ran out for the money and they
want to get some help from the web3 community It's amazing to see how many people responded to that
post. And there was one KOL who donated 400K RMB. It's roughly 50,000 US dollars to this guy.
And there are many, many other smaller donations to this guy as well. You can see how amazing this community, this Web3 community is.
And we also get involved in this thing, and we try to help, we use our knowledge to help
him to find therapeutics and also doing genome sequencing, which is another big thing we are currently doing.
Yeah, so we are trying to help him in different ways, and we have a community to help him.
It's just the first one.
We keep getting more people, like patients, coming to the community to asking for help and literally today before this event i
was talking with someone from from my hometown uh he uh his his his father-in-law um was just
diagnosed with a little stage of pancreas cancer and they asked me about about a cancer vaccine because i'm currently getting my
dad to take cancer vaccine which is actually not approved to be honest to be frank and but you know
that's the decentral science and i have to save my dad i don't really care uh you know it's got
approved or not as long as i think it's a safe or it's uh the the the benefit is over the risk
i will have my dad to you know uh to to to to to to use it and they actually asked me about that
they also want to get the cancer vaccine uh we hopefully uh hopefully we can help them in this way as well.
And that's the thing. And as you can tell, it's amazing community.
And we keep helping people.
And it feels really good for helping people.
Yeah, I think that's the biggest thing we are currently working on is on the community side
to help the patient directly every day already.
And on the more technical side,
what we are focusing on is on the AI and the database side.
So why we are doing that.
I was also in a few other communities,
like more nonprofit communities for,
it's like a patient like me,
it's a patient VChat groups.
And since my dad was diagnosed with cancer,
I have been in those groups.
They are super helpful,
patients can help each other out.
It's really amazing to see that,
and also people gather the information together
in this community.
But slowly I realized that it's super slow
and not efficient.
Inefficient, the reason for that is like,
we kept asking others what kind of treatment
you have got, you of treatment you have got.
And sometimes, for example, like me, I have to explain to others what we have done in
the past two and a half years.
And even myself, I slowly lose track of what we have done
in the past two and a half years to,
in terms of the treatment.
It's the same problem for,
I would say probably over 99% of the patient,
they probably don't have a track of what they have done
for their cancer treatment.
And it's super useful actually, and it can help the patients to guide cancer treatment. And it's super useful, actually.
At the end, it can help the patients
to guide their treatment.
It helps the doctors to check
what they have received in the past
to decide what's the next step for them.
And we kind of don't have this kind of database
or this kind of apps to help us to track it.
And that's why we want to build this kind of like systems
for the patient to help them to track
the whole treatment history.
And with the AI assistant,
we can actually with the AI development
in the past few years,
we can definitely do it in a much better way and more accurate way and more like probably faster way as well
uh to to crack those data to to provide those services uh to to to the patient and the data
is actually a side i would say it's actually a side product uh of this product of this kind of services because the data is naturally
deposited as a database.
So we are not asking the patient, hey, you guys can submit your data into this database.
And of course we can tell them, we can reward them with tokens, with
money, but it's really hard. I think we have been working on, we have seen many, many data-related
projects, not just the DCI project, many other projects, data-related projects as well.
I think the fact or the reality we have to say love this. I also have their MT, their tokens.
But I think the reality is that there are not many people are using it. Why? I think
submitting data to make money is not something we've already internalized as something
is not something we have already internalized as something natural already. We still need
to advocate the public on this. I think in this case, it's really hard to have them directly
submit data to create this database. That's why we step back a little bit and we think we can actually
provide services that have naturally data linked to it. And once the patient has this
kind of service, I would say, okay, now all your data is on the platform. Do you want
to make your data, to contribute your data into this database, and we can incentivize, we can reward you with the tokens.
And I think then it will be very natural for the patient
to say, okay, yeah, sure, it's just another probably
a license or another click. It doesn't really need me to
do a lot of things. That's why I'm saying
database is a side project of those services we're providing.
But for the project itself, for CancerDial itself, the database is actually the biggest, I would say, the core of the project.
Because at the end, the database will become the future drive of the project.
And once we accumulate those data into this database, we can start to build AI, develop AI out of this database.
We can collaborate with the pharmaceutical companies, with the research institute,
and start to form this positive feedback loop to encourage people to build this database further.
And before that, I still think the service to the community is the most important thing at the current stage.
And then slowly the data deposits into a cancer database.
And then we can develop the AI or other more precision oncology treatment diagnosis out of this database.
I think that's what CancerDell is doing right now.
By building the community, first building the community,
and provide the services to the community,
and then slowly to deposit, accumulate data to become a cancer database.
And then based on this database, we can develop this AI agent or AI model platforms to develop AI models and the agent, which further can be utilized to collaborate with the pharmaceutical companies
or the research institute to develop more therapeutics and diagnosis,
which ultimately provides a cure back to the community.
That's the ultimate goal, is to have this community cancer-free. Yeah, I think that's what we are trying to have this community cancer free.
Yeah.
I think that's, that's what we are trying to do for cancer now.
Simply right.
Simply.
That is all you are trying to do that, that.
So have you ever heard of public interest capitalism?
No, no.
What was that?
I'm wearing it's very interesting.
So it's a, it's a, I mean, it's essentially what you're doing.
And I think that if you take a step back and look at a lot of the successful,
and to your point, I would consider you to be a successful project
because, I mean, the numbers speak to themselves.
You're galvanizing people, you have people contributing,
you have success stories where there are people who are taking,
going out of their way to help support other community members
in the case of the donation
for the person with their father-in-law, those are all success metrics. And they stem from,
and to your point, you're creating a positive flywheel. By leaning into what you can do for
others, you're creating a positive flywheel that ultimately leads to success for CancerDow as an entity and as a business.
And so that is a concept of public interest capitalism,
where you can do good, you can be good by doing good for others.
And this is a term, I guess, officially coined by a man named George Hara.
Um, a man named George Hara, he's Japanese.
He's Japanese.
Um, and he has a, he has a number of, of, um, of venture capital funds that all are
predicated off of this concept of public interest capital capitalism.
Um, and I think that that's really what, I mean, it's everything that you've talked
about, right?
Like we've seen the model of let's galvanize people by promising them or telling them,
Hey people, you can monetize your
data. And it doesn't really work because most people don't have that level of emotional attachment
to monetization. And also the, the, you would need to be giving, be, be generating so much
revenue to kind of overcome that, that it's not feasible for most people in most cases, right? Right. But if you can say, hey, we're coming together to build something that will affect you specifically
and you can interact, like there's so much more that goes into community development
than just saying, oh, we have a solution for you.
There's, here's a peer.
Here's another friend that you can talk to.
Here's somebody that can resonate with your plight or whatever you're going through.
Here's a community group.
There's all these things that I think are not as common in the non-Web3 space that we
can really pull from Web3 to bring into the scientific ecosystem, especially around patient
advocacy.
And you're absolutely right, right?
Like disease is not one thing, right? Disease is a story. It's a chronicle.
It's, it's, it's a lore of somebody. And so tackling it as just one thing, one biomarker,
one therapy, one target, one person is, does disservice and is of course not going to yield.
target one person is does disservice and is of course not going to yield.
I mean, now we can look at it in hindsight does not yield, has not yielded what we've
sought or what we've been promised it to yield.
And so there has to be a different way, or there has to be at least a complimentary
way where we open up the playing field to say, okay, we can keep going through this
reductionist systematic approach that currently exists.
That's fine.
It serves its purpose where it does, but clearly it's not getting us all the way to the end
goal.
And so let's open it up.
Let's bring in some of this quote unquote, less sophisticated and not even less sophisticated,
but less art, less, less, less traditionally ontological ways of doing things because maybe
it might give us the edge and it's
and it does it creates more modalities more comprehensive i it's fine it great not great but
if you have pancreatic cancer well what is your family history and we do this already right like
in in medicine we do this what is your family history well what does that actually mean it's
not just your genomics it's it's what you your epigenomics, how you interact with people, your lifestyle,
who you're dealing with, you know, there's so much data that exists out there.
And then to your point of leveraging these new tools, I think one of the reasons why
we're able to do these things now and why cancer dial is something that can flourish.
And some of so many other projects are, are, are, have traction is that the cost of doing
this is also down not just from
a monetary perspective but like ai equalizes the playing field for people to want to interact
because you can interact and however you want to interact if you want to be colloquial if you have
language barriers if you're less sophisticated in language you can still distill out the crux
of what needs to be distilled for your purpose. And so it makes the barrier for entry so much lower.
And I agree with you.
I think the advent, and I speak to patient advocacy groups for the last two years across
the board, and it's always that.
It's, you know, people can't speak for themselves.
People don't know the jargon to speak for themselves.
They don't know where to participate, how to participate, but they want to participate.
And so now I think we have the opportunity now to service that desire, that demand.
And I think you guys are doing fantastic.
Everything that you said is quite, is fantastic on point.
I didn't even realize to the extent of which you guys are doing what you're doing.
That is fantastic.
Thank you. Thank you very much. And yeah, I think that, tumor, tumor as well.
Thank you very much.
So tumor DNA sequencing is probably one of the most important thing for the precision oncology.
Now, I got my dad sequence, that tumor sequence immediately he was diagnosed.
And that really changed our entire
like entire treatment plan. So we found a mutation called QRS G12C mutation. And on one side,
it shows we cannot use one drug that's targeting the EGFR. We have to use another drug. And in a traditional way without DNA sequencing,
we probably would just go for the EGFR first
because it shows better efficacy in a larger population.
But with DNA sequencing,
and we know we cannot use this drug we have to go for another drug
and then also because of this DNA sequencing result we find another targeted medicine
specifically targeting this mutation it's still under development but we we have this in our
like pocket right now, if anything, if our current treatment loses efficacy, we'll just
move on to the target therapy. And all those things actually from the patient's data, you
know, from the research, we want to have more of this kind of data and we want the patient to precipitate into this research.
I think it's super challenging right now.
Even for research institutions, we see there are many, many similar studies going on in
the world.
They all have this problem, is recruiting patients into their study group. And I think there are a lot
of issues in that, including regulation. I think regulation is, I was literally listening to a
postcast today. The guy was talking about the regulation for medicine. He has a really interesting opinion on the regulation.
First of all, he doesn't really like a regulation.
He thinks regulation should only exist
if a better regulation is better than no regulation.
Then you should have regulation.
Otherwise, your regulation is only hurting the innovation.
I think that's a very interesting point.
It's, you know, I'm capable of doing the main point is
we want to have more patients come into this kind of studies
and to provide their DNA sequences or get DNA sequence.
On one side, the DNA sequencing can help DNA sequence on one side,
the DNA sequencing can help them
directly find the targeted therapy.
On the other side, those DNA sequencing
will be super helpful to find new therapeutics
and also to have more knowledge
on what kind of treatment is better
for a specific mutation.
Yeah.
No, I mean, you're absolutely correct.
There is this, the speed of innovation always runs into the wall of regulation and the slowness
of which adoption is, right?
This is the paradox of science where we innovate.
It's a space for innovation, but we're very, very slow to adopt.
And so I completely agree with you.
I don't think I'll, I'll take the measured approach of saying that
regulation, um, is falling short.
And as time moves on, regulation is falling short more and more, and
that's because it is outdated and it is not met for
the times.
And so we would need regulation to be able to advance at the speed or close to the speed
of which innovation is possible.
And there's always going to be that level of discrepancy.
And so it speaks to maybe this trend of deregulation, measured deregulation to allow for things to move forward. But there's such,
there's such fear. There's such dogma around what currently exists because it has existed for,
for such a long time. Um, but yeah, no, we need better ways to kind of push the envelope in a safe
ways because regulation is in place for safety. Right. Um, but, but there needs to be
an evaluation. So, you know, I, I, I would love for there to be within your, within CancerDown,
within any of the other numbers of projects that are working in the DSI space, a working group,
an avenue of focus on how, how can you craft regulation or how can you craft an environment
to actually allow for what you're doing
to proceed in a way that is safe, measured, right?
That has at least a risk reward ratios
considered into the fact.
And I think that is one of the,
like a really important thing,
almost as much as the innovation,
because this is what you're going to use to leverage,
to speak to regulators, to say, hey, this is why we need this.
CancerDAO has the people.
It has up to 3,000 people who are all in line,
and that is exponentially growing because their family members become involved,
and it's an ever-growing network.
They have the skill set.
They have the builders.
They have the people building the actual tools to be leveraged.
Now let's have policymakers in place.
Let's bring the policymakers into the ecosystem to say, well, this is what we're trying to do.
This is, can you craft us something that we can bring to regulatory bodies and say, hey, the end users, and then the regulators.
Then I think there is, you know, that's, that's a real recipe for a catalyst of change.
And I think you guys have it. You guys, I, I really wish I could spend more time in Asia and come over to Hong Kong and
be like, yo, you know, let me see.
I definitely will.
And I mean, I also wish that we had had more more time on the spaces because there's
such there's so much there's such a death i don't know about anybody else but whoever's been
listening to this most recent season two of of desirizing like the projects are are mature like
this is very different from last seasons and like the last couple years where projects were in their
infancy which is fine but like these, these are very, very sophisticated projects,
which I think is a testament to the evolution of the space
and more and more individuals who understand
the comprehensive nature of what needs to be done
to make a change, to actually drive a change.
So, I mean, again, super kudos to you and the team
for what you guys are doing.
I'm looking forward to definitely touching base whenever I'm in Asia or whenever you guys are doing i'm looking forward to definitely touching base whenever i'm
in asia or whenever you guys are up on this side of the planet would love to touch base as well
um i have one question um and this is a question that you know for for context i was on a space
the other day that was talking about, you know, uh, more web
three frameworks in, in D side, like tokens and all that kind of crap.
And I have, as my response, my, I have a very measured approach around these kinds of things,
but you consider yourself to be a doubt.
You must have governance frameworks in place in the last couple of minutes.
Can you talk about how you govern or how the community is governed on your side?
I think you brought up super interesting, important, and probably one of the most challenging questions for any Dell. We have seen, probably Dell came out probably three years ago, on
the web3, people were excited by the Dell, but many people I talked with in the past six months, they don't believe in Dell anymore.
They don't think it works.
And I think it's the same.
We are facing the same situation.
We want to keep it as decentralized as possible.
Meanwhile, how can we, especially as a very early stage project, how can we keep its efficiency?
How to build this kind of infrastructure or build this governance mechanisms for Dell?
We are trying different ways to explore it.
And I think for the Sassino, we already explored it a little bit. For example, how we can have people to initiate things.
So we had this kind of mechanism and basically supplement the proposal
and publish in the groups.
We have a very large VChat group.
And probably we have two VChat groups,
it's like over 800 people in it already.
So the mechanism is,
you publish the proposal in the VChat group, the proposal is automatically passed
if no one rejects or revises the proposal within 12 hours.
And there is no voting, there is no central governance on the proposal. There is no central approval on the proposal.
This is what we try to explore for DeSazana,
which is more like a decentralized community.
For CancerDell, we are also trying to explore other mechanisms.
For example, one thing I would like to share with you guys,
we are also testing it out, is how we distribute the tokens for the core members.
And I think in most projects, you're saying it's very similar to companies. You basically sign a contract or sign an agreement with the core members.
You basically give them a specific amount of tokens, and it will unlock in a vesting schedule.
For example, you get 1% of the total tokens, and by signing a contract, it will last for four years um i don't think that's
fair or that's or it's not as dull as possible so what we're testing right now is we have uh
currently the strategy we have is we have a 10 letter we have 10 uh reserved for the core members that will be unlocked for five years.
But basically each year we unlock 2%, each quarter we basically evaluate everyone's contribution and basically distribute this 0.5% of tokens to other contributors into the DAO.
And I think that's probably give it more flexibility in terms of the governance.
And we don't have to have a very core team or has a single team that has most of the tokens already
it's flexible and because of the doubt the people comes in and goes out
and we can just basically reward them based on how much they contribute in this quarter
that's basically how we are trying to do it.
It's hard to build down,
and especially to have a mechanism that is fair enough,
and that's transparent enough and also have a strong
incentives for the community members to get involved yeah i think that i i yeah i want to
hear you about your opinions on this as well so i would i would need to sit with it i was like experimentation in the
governance space because you're right it's it's not an easy nut to crack and it really is very
situational it depends on how like what exactly is being governed and everybody governs some
things everything everything to be governed is governed in its unique way. So how CancerDog goes about its processes and incorporates new modalities into the community
will change how the governance structure needs to be.
And as a matter of fact, in the same way that I think about tokenomics, I think that
governance is not a set it and forget it.
It's actually something that needs to change over time in the same way that regulation needs to change over time.
And so it's a continuous moving target.
And I think kind of traditionally how we've done, how, how the web three
space has done our D size slash web T spaces.
We're going to institute a governance model and it's, we're going to stretch it.
We're going to shoehorn it to fit all future iterations of what we're going to do.
And that's just not, that's why I think it breaks down.
So governance must be flexible.
And that creates even, makes it even more difficult.
But that's kind of the only way, that's where I've seen,
that's how I've seen it be.
I think the principles of governance
in a decentralized manner has to be one of flexibility
as a core tenant and reevaluation
under a continuous basis. But that is, I'll leave my, as my core tenant, um, and reevaluation under a continuous basis.
But that is, I'll leave my, as my two cents, we did have somebody come up Vexalia.
Um, please feel free at the, the spaces is ending in briefly, but I still have a
little bit of time if you'll shouldn't, if you have some time, but Vexalia, please,
unmute yourself and chime in.
uh, unmute yourself and chime in.
Everybody.
Jim Jim Desai World, Joshua.
Everybody on this page.
I saw the Desai space and I decided
to join in because I'm actually
a Desai explorer.
As I said, yeah, going into
the Desai world because it's
a personal feat for me
being someone with a genetic disorder
and I think DCI is coming to change the face of science and health care and yesterday I hosted a
space about DCI that was DCI 101 and it was very educating because I think DCI is not really on
the timeline because you know it's not giving the quick returns.
We are just building real, we are just solving real life problems and we are building slowly,
but it's a long-term vision.
And I actually love Desai.
So I'm actually here to learn more from everyone here and to connect too,
because I would love us to also be exchanging knowledge and you know the publishing
industry is i think that's what decide to is also focusing on and the funding of independent
researchers on research programs and healthcare health researchers sorry i'm quite nervous a little
health researchers sorry i'm quite nervous a little so that was that was what and i see that
this is actually changing how traditional sciences is being run we are changing the from it being
just government run and making money off it and we also talked about that was yesterday we are now
sharing ideas on how blockchain can come into the data of healthcare of patients in hospitals
like okay i had a situation where my friend traveled to another country but it wasn't attended
to they thought it was actually faking it and it was an addict because sorry i have sickle cell
because sorry i have sickle cell so he had crisis and they thought he was actually faking it so he
could get the morphines but just because he wasn't with his card and his data was in nigeria yeah he
went to kenya so that was what made him to be in pain for over 20 hours before he was actually
given a pain relief that wasn't even up to the standard of the pain.
So I think this is actually changing everything
and I would love to connect with projects here
so we can know what they are building
and we can bring communities together
to what they are building.
Thank you so much for giving me the mic.
You're welcome.
Thank you for coming up and chiming in.
I think you do touch upon a number
of really important pieces uh how medicine is is is operated um and really this comes down to the
tech it comes down to the infrastructure and the education and the will and and the people who are
kind of involved um so to your desire to connect i suggest you follow yoshan i just suggest you
follow cancer dial i suggest you follow dc world suggest you follow CancerDial I suggest you follow DeSaiWorld and myself
and somewhere in the crowd
Jelani
these are the people who are builders
and will be building the infrastructure
to help solve exactly what your friend
has gone through
whether it be in the case of sickle cell
or in the case of cancer
there should be
a one not one government but a one, not one government,
but a one infrastructure for biomedicine, a planetary one, right?
We were at the point where we're globalized.
It needs to be a global framework for this, where no matter where you are, no matter how
you are, there's an ability to at least access your data such that you can help yourself
around the world.
So thank you for that.
Yoshan, I've kept you. I know it's late where you are. Um, I'll just let you kind of yourself around the world. So thank you for that. Yoshan, I've kept you.
I know it's late where you are.
I'll just let you kind of close off the space.
Any parting words for the community at large?
Yeah, yeah, great.
Thank you very much. And thank you again, Jelani,
and thank you again for inviting me to give this space.
It's really amazing to see you guys on this space.
And for CancerDale, we are in a very early stage,
but we have a strong passion in curing cancer
by using this kind of community-driven solutions.
And we definitely want to have more people come in
and to have more chapters across the globe
on different parts of the world.
We are all united into a single community
to push and solve the cancer problem
to make the world cancer-free.
And thank you again.
And please join us if you can.
Thank you. Absolutely. And please join us if you can. Thank you.
Absolutely.
Please do join them.
I hope that for those of you who caught the space from the beginning or will be listening to it afterwards, you understand that Yoshan is a true builder in the sense.
He is a passionate builder.
He is a believer of his system.
And he's galvanized a solid team to get this done so if there is anywhere that you wanted to start in desai um cancer dial is probably up there in the places
that will really get your get you to cut your teeth on some really interesting things so
double click that follow them support them um support us at desai world as well support any
other founder that is making the the effort to make a change um and then we'll just cap off with that
so yoshan thank you again um again i really hope that we get to cross paths whenever the next time
we're in asia um josh let's get on it uh and yeah we'll we'll we'll wait to see you guys again on
our next episode which will be in two weeks um but i'm sure cancer i see you guys all over the place
so there'll be more opportunity to learn about what you guys are doing through different spaces.
So thank you again.
And I hope you have a good rest of your week.
Bye.
Bye-bye, guys.
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DeSciWorld
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