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DeSci what did you get done this week? #4
Recorded: March 14, 2025 Duration: 0:52:57Space Recording
Short Summary
Recent developments in the crypto space include strategic partnerships, innovative projects like modular labs for decentralized science, and successful fundraising efforts such as Kirtopia's $1.7 million auction. The launch of DSI Next aims to integrate young scientists into decentralized science, while the sector experiences growth and increasing investor interest.
Full Transcription
Hello, welcome. This is Erin McGuinness at the D-SI mic for Friday session of D-SI. What did you get done this week?
Hitting up on week number four. So continuing to see progress with different D-SI projects in this space.
If you're here right now and have any updates of things you might be working on, feel free to request the mic or leave a comment down below.
Share any other tweets you might have posted out and we can get those pinned up above as well.
But this is really a space to share exciting updates, recent updates, and also can be a space to share any upcoming events or things people should be keeping on their radar for next week in particular as well.
So I want to welcome everyone in.
This week, a few updates of happenings include...
ETH SF is going on right now. So there were a lot of events at Stanford and Berkeley,
and a lot of good conversations kind of crossing over that chasm between Web3 builders,
as well as different academics, especially professors within the computer science department,
giving a lot of different talks at these conferences,
and a good kind of mixture of people both still in academia as well as those outside of it.
Not as much of a heavy focus on academics from the biologic year.
However, at Causality, we hosted with Viva City, an event, and with Jeffrey, an event, I think on Tuesday or Monday.
It's crypto time.
Yeah.
focused solely on D-SI and got a lot of newer faces as well as folks from the traditional biosphere as well.
Had a handful of different lightning talks.
We'll probably get those up online sometime soon from people both building in the D-SI space as well as from OpenCell,
which is building these modular shipping container labs.
which can then enable more decentralized science participation,
especially more remote parts of the world.
By putting solar panels on top,
they're doing a bunch of cool stuff,
putting these on different like barges and boats
to do ocean research and exploration.
So really excited for what's happening at OpenCell.
And then we had someone also from the biomanufacturing space
sharing some different opportunity within that sector too.
So have voices kind of across that side as well as across the D-SI sphere as well.
So good connections kind of built across those different bounds.
There's also an event by HATU Protocol, paired with Chaos Chain, which is in the
Nethermind ecosystem.
And they had a happy hour, but it was down in Palo Alto.
And one interesting thing from Ethosaf for any future events being held, they have events
each day across Palo Alto, San Francisco, and Berkeley.
which, yes, it's all in the same general region.
But with traffic and just transportation times, it takes like an hour to get between these places or between Berkeley and Palo Alto can take an hour and a half easily.
So kind of that logistics, I think, has some room for improvement.
So hopefully we'll see that in future years as well.
I feel like I've been kind of focused on some of these in-person connections, so I haven't even stayed as up to date as I normally do on different updates and launches and announcements from different projects online or here on X.
If you guys have any things that you've seen shared out,
would love to pick those up here,
have that be part of the conversation as well.
I feel like those are some of the updates on kind of my in-person realm.
John, if you have any updates on the book front,
would love to hear some of those or any other convos
you're having as well.
Otherwise, we could also keep this week kind of nice and short and sweet.
I know I did see that.
Eva from Orsi was just featured in a like Forbes Under 40 or 30 list.
So D-Sai's name is getting out there into the main ecosystem as well.
Awesome. Welcome, Sean.
Thanks for hosting this.
Always good to see, especially when I get busy tracking what's going on.
Sometimes I can't see it all happening in real time.
Just a couple things that I've had going on this week that I want to mention.
I published a paper.
It's been kind of three years in the works.
It's called Sciencia Machina, a proposed conceptual framework
for a technology accelerated system of biomedical science.
And while it's not a pure DCI play,
I mentioned DCI a couple of times in there.
What I'm doing is really giving the
traditional biomedical community,
a breakdown of what the core areas of trust are,
with I break it into five layers of trust
throughout the bench to bedside journey of science into medicine.
And then describing how both AI and
blockchain and decentralized science,
DCI can be applied there,
but from taking a step back
and not just plugging it in to small areas,
but thinking of a whole conceptual new future
where these things are,
used for the automated trust that they can bring and the automated information processing they can bring, but at each different level, not trying to do it all at once.
And so it's a it's an attempt to bridge between D.Sai and TradSai. It's also a call for papers for a journal, Frontiers in Systems Biology. I run a section there called...
systems, concepts, theories, and policy, in biology and medicine.
And so I'm trying to invite other approaches.
I can put it in the chat.
It's an open access paper.
If anyone take a look at it, I tried to keep it simple and not have it be that lengthy.
So it can be absorbed.
Also has...
I guess five recommendations that I give in there as well.
So that's one thing I wanted to mention.
The other is, as we all know,
there's a little bit of disruption going on
in the TradSai community and the funding.
That's probably good, bad, and other
from a lot of different perspectives.
It's disrupting a lot of individuals though.
I know a lot of scientists who are either out of work or are
anticipating being out of work as funding draws down.
That's from government, that's from academia, that's from industry,
that's from policy sectors.
It's really already hitting in a lot of different places.
So here in Pittsburgh, we have set up what we call terminus.
That's an Asimov reference.
It's not the end of the line, it's the beginning of the foundation.
And we have set up
Initially, it's a Discord channel and it's meant to be a place for scientists to go to interact with each other.
But we are setting up some in-person meetups here in Pittsburgh, chance for people to interact with each other to collaborate, to commiserate, to work on.
skills development, career development,
to find jobs, people who are hiring can come together there.
But really a place for scientists built by scientists.
And in the long run, we want this to be a community of,
again, bridging between D-Sai and Tad-Sai,
where Trad Si can learn about D-SI.
We have a channel there on D-Sai
and I put my book up there for free for people to read
and get people educated so we can bridge across
between what is a bit of a divide right now,
but also start to really lay out the requirements,
sub-discipline by sub-discipline for what is needed to bring
D-Sy technology, AI technology into the Tad-Sy community and accelerate it forward.
Sometimes when things are built outside the scientific community and you try to plug it,
you try to plug them in, it doesn't work as well as if you build it with the scientists themselves.
Scientists can be very critical people, so they like to criticize everything.
So again, I'll put that in the chat.
Amazing. Yeah, would love to hear updates as this community keeps growing and evolving. I think we need more efforts like that in all different regions. So possibly some other areas or regions could be learning a lot from what's being formed in Pittsburgh. So those are super cool updates.
I think I shared the article up above, but tell me if you want a different link shared instead,
if there's a better one you want featured.
But yeah, super, super excited to hear some of those updates on Pittsburgh side of things.
In terms of that kind of openness or adoption to either DISA or AI technologies, blockchain technologies, whatever it might be,
What are you seeing as the biggest blocker or challenges in terms of getting that into some
these traditional science conversations?
I think one of the biggest blockers, and this isn't something that I think everybody on the
the D side of the house wants to here is build first is not always the solution.
If you are not mapping the right workflow, the right governance, the right requirements,
and not science as a whole, but different sub-disciplines, you are essentially demanding change
of workflow.
And scientists are very slow to change workflow in some of the administrative areas and areas like
Publishing, I think that's more viable.
But when it comes to executing the science,
any change in workflow is a change in methodology.
It's new variables brought into the mix.
It needs to be identified, plan for,
and you need to understand and control for that bias.
And so without bringing the,
especially in the biomedical sciences for me,
without bringing that biomedical
approach to the building of the requirements,
to the build of the technology itself,
you're oftentimes building something
that doesn't fit the audience that you want.
And so bridging that together,
how do we align waterfall and agile processes
especially with clinical research, you can't do agile in executing a protocol.
Every time you go to execute a protocol and make a change to it, you need to get that approved
by an IRB.
And so, you know, we can imagine those things don't exist, but they do exist.
And so trying to execute clinical research especially requires an alignment between the tech approach
the scientific approach.
And I think that's the biggest blocker is how to align somewhat differently moving
processes.
Figuring that out is something I've spent a lot of time working on, but there are other people
doing it too.
And it's going to take trial and error and figure out what works best.
So that's my answer to what the biggest blocker is, I think.
Definitely. I feel like that's a challenge within crypto as a whole and definitely seen in D-Sai of some people possibly building tech for the sake of tech and not building in conjunction or unison with those actual users to make sure it fits into their flow or is designed in a way that's compatible or friendly.
Are there any categories of DSI projects that you could see being in a position to currently be needed by some of these different scientists, or do you think more evolution of a lot of the DSI projects is needed before that integration element happens?
and probably evolution in the sense of actually working with those scientists to make it fit properly.
I think there are a lot of things that at a pilot level and demonstration level would be interesting to roll out and are rolling out and the many of the projects done.
I think, you know, science and especially some of the...
governance of science and where the funding goes
and how people move towards new approaches,
want to observe pilots,
want to observe those being reported,
the methodology being analyzed,
looking at how these things compare to the current system.
I think what Research Hub is doing,
I'm a peer reviewer there, but I'm not part of the research of main team, but I think what they're doing, I've been able to talk to them in the research of foundation is an amazing
alternate approach, but I think a lot of the trad side people want to see how that tests out and how it tests out at a scaled level.
Are there exploits? Are there bad actor approaches once you start to scale out pay for peer review that start to create conflicts of interest or
perceived conflicts of interest in the system is probably something that people want to see.
And so really tackling the most difficult challenges in
a transparent way and then seeing that disgust, seeing the criticality of science turned back on anything the D-side does.
Scientists like to cut up things that come in front of them.
Being taught how to be critical is something that you get in, you know, in the development of science.
And so I think watching
a project like Research Hub be published, which Jeff and the others have started to publish some stuff and have it be reviewed, I think that's very helpful because people want to see that iterative, you know, science works in an iterative way, but it's a very slow iterative way. And seeing those things
transparently critiqued, modified, adjusted, and then evaluated for how they're impacting the system is the best way to get there.
Unfortunately, there's no quick and fast. We're going to switch everything over to Desai.
I don't, I don't, if that was possible, I think someone could, you know, would have already done it.
I think what has to happen is little successes have to be built and demonstrated.
for more and more weight.
And I say wait by funding and people's attention and people's time
to be shifted towards it.
The disruption that we have now in science is definitely a possibility of an accelerate.
But it's also the possibility that bad actors and
well-intended but not very foresightful actors,
implement things that don't work out.
And that's going to be something that's going to be evaluated as well.
So as a community, we want to be able to quickly evaluate projects for,
well, this looks like it's got a good scientific foundational basis.
So it's got a good evaluation plan.
The methodology is rolled out well.
It's being tested against the controlled system.
Those are positives.
But if it's, you know, hey, we raised a lot of money and we have a lot of hype around this, that's the science doesn't really care.
Honestly, I get, I get criticized.
I have a friend who taught me a lot about D.Ci and he makes fun of me because he says scientists don't understand what money is.
And to a large extent, science is.
unlike other industries, has a majority of its economy that is non-monetary.
There's a reputation and credibility economy that is completely non-monetary,
which is what you need to have front and center before you get to the monetary aspects.
And I think that's a little bit of a differentiation between defy and other areas where we've seen Web3 applied.
Absolutely. I really appreciate that quote of scientists don't understand what money it is. And I think that's such a good kind of just notion for a lot of especially the more
DFI crypto builders coming into DSI as well to keep in mind that the currency within science is that reputational component to a very large degree.
So hopefully, hopefully we're seeing more of that kind of proper integration with these scientific communities as well.
Wanted to welcome a few other folks up to the stage for anyone else listening in.
to request the mic as well and we'll bring you up or leave any comments or links down below and we can get those pinned but dr you
andrew stanley welcome up if you have any thoughts on some of the points sean was just sharing
to keep diving into this combo too oh heck yeah and um
Forgive me for jumping in. I definitely wanted to start by saying, we miss you in LA, Aaron.
You got to get you back down here.
I'll be back. I'll be back. It was so good to see you a couple days ago.
Oh, and we're going to do some fun stuff.
We'll be hackathoning and other things.
And Andrew, also, so good to catch you, sir.
We got to do a call soon.
I know you are already just one of my favorite leaders in the D-Sai space,
but I didn't know till the other day you have exquisite taste in D-Sai memes.
Yes.
Oh, really? What was that?
Oh, my dear friend, Kira, does the memes for QBD, and she had that one, was like,
this is how it feels knowing D.Cai exists.
Oh, yes, yes, yes.
But anyway, just want to, oh, sorry, just jump on and say hi, and also thought the point was made that was really good,
kind of, you know, gauging the relationship between...
like D-SI and traditional science.
And I just had this one perspective I wanted to share
and also in the context of my sort of,
what did I do this week in D-Cai?
I kind of think sometimes, you know,
it's not that centralization is bad, you know, always.
It's that it's not always
the right tool and you know we're kind of coming out of an era where we really only did have tools to create
centralized system so you know sometimes i wonder if maybe it isn't completely about um you know
changing centralized science but adding something new um that can have a different relationship
And yeah, this week, I just finished a project that I kind of feel like just would have been very hard in a centralized context, but sort of benefits both DSI and traditional science, hopefully.
And that is this really cool project we've been doing with Cedar Sinai and their breast oncology group.
This group specializes in what would be called low immunotemperature oncologies.
So these are cancers that have extremely sophisticated ways of evading the immune system.
These end up being some of the harder cancers to treat.
But at the same time, if you can figure out how to raise the immunotemperature, which basically
means kind of hint to the body that there's something that should be paying attention to,
sometimes these kind of cancers almost resolve themselves, or maybe that's the last little
nudge you need to give it.
Sort of like the sort of interaction network of one of these more complex cancers is very high dimensional.
There's lots of different particles jumping around and interacting.
And yeah, it's a very challenging research task.
I think my friend who partnered with us on the project shared, he needs to read about or review about a thousand papers a week.
So yeah, we got kind of a few players to the table.
We got some compute from Dell and some developers from Lillipad and a few other places.
And yeah, we built this really cool agent that sort of like goes through oncology papers,
identifies the right compounds, prepares the reports, and does it in about like 20 minutes when this was a 20-hour task across all the people participating in it.
you know, didn't work perfectly at first,
you know, did end up taking collaboration,
tune the model from a number of different stakeholders.
So just one of those kind of things where like,
I think if you sort of tried to get all of that approved,
within an organization, you'd still be filling out the first round of forms.
But yeah, it was really just such a fun project, and then we'll be publishing a video and a paper
on the effort, too. So I'm just very excited to tell you guys about that and then start telling
everyone else more about it. Anyway, overcaffeinated, don't mean to ramble, but thank you guys
so much for having me up here.
Yes, as always, thanks so much for joining.
And super excited to see all these updates and more collaborations across different types of groups that I feel like you're really leading the way in across compute and the translational side and D-side to tread side to startups.
So excited to see more coming through the pipeline on your end.
Stanley, always great to connect and great to hear from you.
And yes, let's get a call.
And also keep the memes coming, dude.
It took me a minute to get up with you, but I was super excited about that.
And I just want to say, like, Sean, I was really...
I was really, really excited to read your tweet this morning, kind of explaining what you guys are jumping into, was thankful to be able to, that you joined the space today and to be able to hear more about that.
These are the types of efforts that we want to support, especially, you know, with the D.C. Alliance.
And so please, let's continue to collaborate and make sure that we can figure that out on how to do that.
If I could just jump in with a couple of things around the DISA Alliance, what we did this week.
One of them was we partnered with Cosimo Research, who is doing a independent research study around mouth taping, specifically around sleeping.
And...
And so we are promoting her Maya's work there.
She's a scientist there, a researcher, I guess I should say, and recruiting people to join in.
So if you have a smartwatch or a health tracking device and are willing to participate in a 30-day trial and share your results,
and share your results.
You have the chance to win a new eye watch and I don't know other stuff like that, right?
So most importantly, you're contributing to the cause of D.Ci.
So please consider the opportunity to be able to participate in that.
But we were able to kind of launch that.
That's the first time that the D.C.
Alliance has been involved in helping to recruit people for...
studies and something that we would love to do more of as things progress.
The other thing that's really exciting is Aaron and I worked together to launch what we are calling DSI Next.
And DSI Next is an initiative.
led by Hannah from Peptide Dow to essentially educate and on board young scientists into D.Sai.
And, you know, Hannah represents somebody who chose a different path into contributing in society.
science than sort of the traditional path. And I know that there are many that that have questions
and challenges around that. But I think what she is showing is that there is a path. There is an
opportunity to contribute and to be a valuable participant in the scientific community and not have to
go through the traditional channels. And so we want to support that. We want to, you know,
you know, enable her and give her a platform,
but also to encourage others.
You know, there are some people who just
do not have the capacity or capability
to be able to go through a PhD program
and yet are valuable members of the scientific community
who should be recognized for their contributions.
We want to recognize them and give them opportunities.
There is a whole wave of citizen scientists, and especially around these side projects where we're enabling citizen scientists to collaborate and to be, again, valuable participants in the science and the work that's going on.
Right.
I think these are extremely important things, and we want to continuously elevate them,
give them platforms, encourage them, educate them, engage them.
Like, I don't know, any other e-words that I can think of there.
But we want to do all those things.
And so we're excited to launch a couple of those initiatives this week.
So very big week for the D.C. Alliance and lots more to come.
Oh, hey, I'm...
I'm so sorry. I was actually just about to jump off. You're talking about stuff that's too cool.
Citizen science, hey, Andrew, have you ever used an Oxford nanopore?
Well, listen, I want to learn more about that project.
Maybe you can post a link because we just got this deal set up with Oxford to get a grant
for what's called an Oxford Nanopore.
It's like a very Star Trek device, like about the size of a stick of gum DNA sequencer.
So we are actually planning to use them in the LA area with like a citizen science initiative.
We'll be kind of monitoring the impact of the fires on the ocean here.
So I just love that idea of there's so much science to do.
There's plenty of room for everyone to contribute.
That's beautiful.
Let's do it.
Let's do it.
Let's definitely connect and see what we can do.
That sounds like an amazing device.
Sounds cool.
Let's do it.
Awesome. For anyone interested in the D-Sign Next initiative, the first tweet pinned up above is from Hannah, so you can check out more with that community there.
Super, super excited. I feel like a theme throughout this combo is connecting more with those traditional scientists, making sure we're building things that are
are actually beneficial in alignment with them and also showcasing some of those other paths
of ways that we can use different technologies or ways of coordinating ourselves or community at
large to advance science forward. So definitely go check out what Hannah is up to as well.
She launched yesterday and has already 40 members of the community.
So I think that's pretty exciting and really good start and excited to see how that's going to take off for her.
Yeah, super pumped.
Dr. Yu, welcome up to the stage to the platform.
Hi, good morning.
Yes.
How about you guys recently?
You know, very tired about East Denver, right?
as being one week after maybe two weeks i don't know yeah so today is due the 60 seconds or
where is the normal one i don't know which one you guys just do 60 seconds yeah go for it doctor you
let us hear what you go for it okay yeah maybe 60 seconds okay the king of this uh-huh what what
What are doing?
I'm talking.
So let me start.
And for size 16 and sport is actually we cooperating with the Pesia, the Neri Lab.
We wanted to develop a neural AI interface.
You know, we want to make the RAS matters and integrated with T.
So this is for technology partnership.
And for the product part and size 16 is actually developing a crypto version AI co-scientist.
And we are on the progress for optimizing the efficiency and the speed of collecting the existing journals and other information.
We also cooperating with the bio protocols because they are launching with the bioagents in April.
So we want a sponsor and
maybe have some new things to come here.
Yes.
And yeah, this is my, this is the progress about three projects, right?
Sight 16, Z, poor, and Picea.
Okay, so this is my 60 second software.
Yes.
That's all.
Yeah.
Great summary.
Yeah, thanks for sharing the quick updates there.
Definitely excited what's happening on some of the agent front or AI across the board and some of the work you're doing there is definitely helping to push those different bounds.
So excited to see that.
Keep progressing forward.
Yes, only me. So now it's only me to report the 60 seconds, right?
Not 60 seconds, 90 seconds. But it doesn't matter. We keep building. We keep building.
I think that no matter the bearish status, but we're still doing something.
And we think that Anna is Hannah, right? Hannah make a...
design nest, that is really good initiative.
And we just insist, and with the bull is coming.
So that is how we play this game, right?
But I found it, you know, recently because I also engaged with the Qortopia.
the Ethan's project, right?
Launched at the Brad Protocol.
But, you know, there is still have some issues.
I want to talk later with Ethan later
because three hours later,
they have the first community call.
I want to discuss something with him.
Yes.
And you know, the country, the Asia,
this side volume is very good
because a lot of the people
You know, they will post their status about their cancer issues.
Maybe it's not themselves, it's their wife or their mother.
They're telling the story about the cancers.
They suffered.
And the Asia crypto community is actually helping them a lot.
to help them to funderize some money for the very expensive, you know, some drugs, drugs cost or some surgery costs.
and also supporting them to have better medical resources.
But I think that, you know, I think D-Sai still has the philanthropy feature, right?
We are helping the people to have a better life,
no matter the bio part or chemical or physics or something.
We're doing some good things.
But, you know, we're still in a tough time.
A lot of guys don't understand the meaning of D-Sai.
But we insist, okay?
I think when the market volume is back, I think everything will be okay.
I think the most reason of the current situation is that the liquidity has drained a lot.
I have a data I want to share with you because, you know, 70% of the liquidity, the money is disappeared in Solana.
And 50% of the wallet is not active anymore.
So current market status is very bare, very, very bare.
Maybe they move to the base and the bear chain, but still knows.
I think something is very weird because...
Currently, I don't know what is your guy's perspective because I think the four years cycle has already changed of the crypto has already changed four year cycle, right?
Well, Andrew, you can say something.
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, I think we don't want to get too far off track of our focus of the space here of what we did this week.
But you bring up some really, I think.
Yeah.
interesting and valuable points as we consider.
What I thought was exciting, Dr. You that you mentioned is,
Is Kirtopia getting funded this week, raising through auction $1.7 million, you know, above what their target was?
I think that's a very good sign, a strong sign for the opportunity for liquidity in the space.
And that is all just going directly to research.
I mean, that's what Kirtopia did was prove that there's a new way to raise funds for research.
and specifically around a topic like rare disease.
So I think that that's a very powerful thing.
Look, I don't think that,
I don't think that DSI markets are tied to the general crypto markets, frankly.
I don't see any strong correlation between the two of those.
Generally, there, of course, is liquidity drying up in the general crypto markets.
But what's actually happening is we're moving from a hype cycle to a utility cycle.
Like we're shifting into more utility.
And as...
As the regulation and regulatory environment begins to shift to more favorable, especially with the current administration, I think you're going to start to see real projects begin to be valued based upon their actual real enterprise value and not how many Twitter followers they have.
And so I think that that is the shift that's occurring in the broader markets.
Right.
But I do not see, truly, I do not see a correlation between the D-Sai markets and the broader crypto markets.
So that's just kind of where I'm coming from.
Sean, Sean wants to counter that, maybe.
Not so much a counter. I just have a question and, you know, it's great to see that money raised.
It's great to see it going towards research. Is there a way of tracking that? You know, you can track every NIH-funded study on NIH reporter and see where the study is, the status of the study. There's also clinical trials.gov.
But in the end, when those studies that are NIH funding get published,
you know, there'll be a mention of the grant down at the very bottom of the paper and the
acknowledgments or, you know, in the funding section. How can people track those studies that
are going on based on Kirtopia? And then how is that going to be acknowledged later?
Because I think that's going to be very important to, to announce successes to the Tadai world of this
administrative approach and funding and so i'm just curious if you know more about that i i haven't
seen that yet yeah yeah i think that
A, it's a great question. Also, what you just described is a great project for someone to build. So if someone's building that, let us know. But I think that Ethan has been very open, the founder of Kirotopia has been very open about how those funds are going to be used and the ability to be able to track all of those on chain. We were on a space on Wednesday where he mentioned that exact thing where like that you're going to be able to
the sea and they will report on exactly how that money's being used and against outcomes.
And he even said outcomes will be logged on chain matched to, you know, match to the donations or
match to the funding, basically. So I agree with you that that, that
that is going to be an important mechanism to be able to show and not to obfuscate, like, you know, those types of details or disconnect them so that it becomes a little, you know, everyone has questions.
And from all reports so far and from Ethan's personal testimony, you know, that's how he's going to handle it.
And I think you're right, there probably needs to be some sort of a D.Sai industry specific, um,
tool that tracks those sort of things, reports on them,
and validates the outcomes to ensure the highest level of ethics and credibility.
Dr. You go ahead. You have some.
Yes, actually recently I'm thinking about the,
you know, sustainable business model for D-Sy.
Because I still think that the token has,
token is two-blade things, right?
The one is that can get found, but another thing is that it is triggered by the sentiment.
And a lot of the retail community members, they are not, has this kind of decouculture for funding the science, for funding the research.
They are here for getting more and more money, right?
So that is why that I'm thinking about, so what is the revenue about the DISA project?
Maybe the blockchain or crypto is just the tools or infrastructure to, how to say, to, to just protect the data and to tokenize the data or provide some very infrastructure things.
But the result, how about the, how about, so my question is that. How about a D-Side project without a token? Is this possible or not?
I'm curious about this one.
I want to hear from Erling, Andrew, and also Professor Sean for these questions.
So, how about the design without a token?
Just with the blockchain technology, is this possible?
Okay, no one's jumping in first, so I'll jump in. And then I think we've got to go on to the focus of this space here. But, Dr. You're bringing up great questions.
Look, I think it's absolutely viable that you have and there will be...
D-Sai projects that come that generate revenue and there is no token attached to them.
I think that's a reality that is that we are soon to approach.
I think the reason why we have a lot of tokens in the space at the moment is because many
are adopting a Dow structure.
And within a Dow structure, especially around governance, token is the mechanism for which
you know is how you govern.
And so I think that that has been the...
the emphasis. But again, like I said earlier, the general crypto market shifting from hype to utility.
I think in the same way, DOWs were a creation of necessity because of the structure, because of the regulatory environment that existed.
I do not believe Dows. I just don't believe Dows have a future. It's my own personal take.
I don't know that Dow's have a future.
They're inefficient.
They're expensive.
They're slow.
They're extremely hard to navigate from a legal and liability perspective.
And while states in the United States, like New Hampshire, Wyoming, and a few other states have adopted Dow as a formal legal structure, the – the –
the existence of these things was only man was only done because of the regulatory environment.
Now that we have a different regulatory environment and soon with with significant regulatory changes
coming through, both from a stable coin bill, which will be happening probably in the next
couple of weeks, to other, you know, regulatory changes, I can't help but see
that these models are also going to change.
The real unlock, I believe, for D.Sai is the composability, the programability, the smart contracts that the blockchain enables some, the ability to be able to have private shared state.
These types of things is where I believe you're going to have the real unlocks.
Now, there are, of course, conversations to have around tokens, and there is a potential opportunity where tokens become now revenue generating and not just governance oriented.
And so I can see a shift from that perspective where, you know, perhaps a research Dow or research company maybe issues a token that helps them to raise funds.
And as part of the outtake of that, the IP that is generated from it, the token represents some sort of equity stake in the ownership of the IP that's generated.
And thus, the IP that becomes a revenue generating is then shared down with token holders.
I think there are going to be models like that that the regulatory environment hasn't permitted up to this point.
That's sort of where I settle on that issue.
Really nice answers.
So how about Professor Sean?
You want to speak, right?
I'll just add that yeah, there are definitely applications and we've even seen some pilots.
I put in the chat a nature paper from 2019 on a non-token blockchain application for using it for trust in a untrustworthy environment.
Science, I think tokens.
come into play because, you know, blockchain and Web3 have risen up in DFI primarily.
And we think of even the terminology that's used in a lot of things is financial terminology.
But, you know, as I mentioned before, science has its own,
economy that is non-monetary and that credibility economy, that ability to trust in the data,
the ability to, you know, make a claim and have it ride on a number of other claims of
papers that, you know, might be retracted because people didn't do their science right.
There's there's other areas of trust and other...
exchanges of data beyond just financial.
And so while there is an intersection
between science and finance, obviously,
I think there's a there's whole other worlds
for applications of blockchain and Web3
in the scientific realm that go well beyond
you know, the only the financial.
So but in the chat, there's a very clever paper done by a grad student.
I tried to get that grad student to come out and speak at a 2019 event that I had.
And the professor of the department or of the lab he was in wouldn't pay for him to come out.
I didn't have the funds to bring him out from California and didn't like him doing that work.
He thought it was a waste of time.
And it was amusing to me that he didn't realize the value he had in his lab of someone who really just created that project.
So it was a shame.
I've looked about piece.
He's working, I think, in biotech up in Boston now.
I reached out, but I wasn't able to get in touch with him of the first author of that paper.
But it's a great read.
Sean, have you seen any of the work that circular protocols doing around proof of reputation?
I recognize the company name, but it's not one I've gotten to dive into yet.
You can send me information that will get me there faster.
Sure, yeah, yeah.
I'll do that.
Just sort of sounds like it's touching on some of the areas that you're highlighting as important there.
It's great.
Indeed, definitely the naming of it does.
So thanks.
I would appreciate sending that my way.
Sure.
Awesome. I would love to open it back up for anyone here to request the mic if you have any updates on your end of things, or maybe an update. You are super excited about that you saw posted within the DCI ecosystem. That isn't yet shared. So just putting another prompt out there to come share those updates. Otherwise, if not...
We can kind of lean towards starting to wrap this up or if anyone has any
kind of conclusive thoughts on the conversations had today.
We dove into a lot of really cool topics about onboarding more scientists and making sure
we're building in conjunction with those actual users, with those scientists, and making
sure that the rules and games that they are participating in are in alignment with the
products being built within the D-Sy space as well.
I guess a couple updates on different convos I've been having lately a few different themes include there seems to be a growing set of investors who are interested in investing in D.Sai.
Some of them are raising those rounds or the fund right now.
So we'll hopefully see kind of.
Q2, Q3, a wider variety of investors or funds with a major DSI thesis.
And hopefully that can help accelerate some more diversity of DSI projects, being able to get to those next levels as well.
So if you're looking to fundraise anytime soon, definitely reach out to make sure that we can help get you top of mind as those funds start deploying that capital.
And keep coming back to these spaces to share those different updates so all the rest of us can...
know what you're up to, explore collaboration opportunities, and just be able to keep pushing
awesome D-SI projects forward. Yeah, I think there's a lot of excitement in D-Sai, so let's
keep building.
Awesome week, and I think a ton got done and very excited about the next couple of weeks coming up.
I think there's some massive announcements that are on the horizon and super excited to be a part of that and to hear it.
So definitely, like I want to just echo what Aaron just said.
If you're raising, please let us know.
Many VCs reach out to us on a regular basis and ask about our, you know, kind of just...
ideas and things that's happening in the space.
And so please let us know so that we can at least just sort of keep you on the radar
and make sure that if those conversations are valuable, we can make connections for you all.
Awesome week, Aaron.
Thank you so much for putting this on today.
Thanks so much, everyone. Really great combos and looking forward to more updates next week.
The speaker next week Wednesday is Adam Draper. So leading off of this point of talking to different investors, if you have questions for him or Booth V.C., which has had a major D.C. investment thesis for a good long time now, has backed a ton of the projects in the space.
Definitely, I'll post about that in the next couple minutes.
So leave any comments down below.
Feel free to DM, Desai Mike, or Aaron,
and we'll get those questions into the conversation as well.
So yeah, come join next week Wednesday,
same time 12 p.m. Eastern time.
And then join back next week Friday for your next updates.
Thanks so much, everyone.
Thank you.
Have a great week, guys.
Bye.
