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Discover with Rujira: RUJI Lending, RUJI Trade v1.1 and re-imagining order types
Recorded: Dec. 5, 2025 Duration: 0:32:12Space Recording
Short Summary
Exciting developments in the crypto space as a new borrowing feature goes live, enabling users to leverage their assets in innovative ways. The platform is set to enhance user experience with cross-collateralization and competitive liquidation processes, reflecting a growing trend towards decentralized finance solutions that prioritize user empowerment.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Oh, hello, everybody.
So PM is also there, wonderful.
AGB, long time.
Long time no see.
Yes, let's wait and throw some people in, and we can give an update here.
Wonderful.
So we actually had a, yeah, sorry for the delay.
We actually had a very nice meeting
with lovely people from Bitcoin Cash showcasing what
showcasing what can be done and we learned a lot as well you know very very good interaction
can be done.
And we learned a lot as well.
a lot of uh things we can do when the the bd fronts to cooperate with those uh
those chains even though i i did not know bitcoin cash has such a good uh
has such a good smart contract capabilities.
So it's not as much of a strong case as I say it would be.
But the fact that we can mix everything under one roof,
I think, still is a big stuff.
And I suspect the UX we can provide is better than most
of what you will find there.
I think, I mean, that's why I say we learn a lot here and there. It was a surprise for me as well that they do have this advanced scripting language,
even though in hindsight always it's obvious.
even though in hindsight, always it's obvious.
But yeah, I think that will be, I actually like it.
It will be interesting to see
how the different communities react
because if you already have some kind of DeFi on your chain,
the gap in terms of the thinking gap is smaller than let's say you have bitcoin even though
bitcoin also have has the layer twos or however you want to call it you can do defy but let's
say if you are a bitcoin native native i don't know if the in the mind gap to defy is bigger
than if you are like for example bitcoin cash and you know that there is DeFi already.
Yeah, no, true.
It can be a benefit as well.
I agree.
It will be interesting to analyze the user behavior.
Yeah.
Hello, Patriot.
How are you doing?
Well, good morning, boys.
You know, I tried to join by my frigging phone,
but, you know, Xspace messed it all up,
so I had to run to my desktop.
But I'm here now.
I'm here now.
Sounds like you guys had a banger conversation
with those BCH boys.
Is that right?
We had one, yeah.
That was a very nice one.
Very, very cool guys.
Very open.
Yeah, they're really cool.
They're dope as hell.
And, yeah, good point about them, you know,
because they're all about embracing that DeFi stuff, right. And the maximalists on the Bitcoin side, they, you know, I, it might,
it might be a bit of a friction for them to, you know, have secured assets and do stuff. But
you know, I really feel like Bitcoin is, uh, you know, shedding a lot of people and people are
going into other ecosystems. So I think it's all going to, it's all going to work out very well,
but a hot damn, you guys, I am so excited.
You know, borrowing technically went live.
I know it's a cage release.
But how cool is that, man?
This is extraordinary stuff.
Yeah, it's amazing.
It's massive milestone, really.
Super happy that we got that live.
Yeah, you can now, like, so we have opened with low caps
while we are doing our sort of testing.
And we are running, we're going to run this security audits
till mid of January, like a competition.
I want everyone to come and try to break it.
So that's why we keep the caps low for the moment.
But this is like, there's still some capacity, so you can come and play.
You can deposit your native BTC, BCH, ETH,
whatever collateral that is connected to blockchain.
One transaction, boom, it's on the Ruggira,
and you can take a loan.
And that's very cool.
That's big.
And there are a lot of other interesting features that come with this system
because it's using our credit account primitive under the woods,
which is really like a big revolution in terms of innovation that we've been bringing here.
Nobody, I think, has done anything similar to that before.
Oh, sorry, I didn't mean you're up.
Go ahead, JP.
No, I just wanted to give my thought now that obviously I'm using it,
we are demoing it, and we know all of you guys are very brave
because there are obviously things to improve.
And like with every launch, it never goes perfect,
even though that's not the official launch.
But it really feels great.
Like the moment for me really is if I choose an asset
and then I choose the to be borrowed asset
and I simply can choose where the USDC should go, right?
Like in one transaction, I take Bitcoin and say,
give me the USDC on Ethereum
or on Avalanche or on BASE or whatever.
I think this is so powerful and amazing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You guys out there listening,
you know, I can't think for you,
but I'm getting pretty frigging bullish up here.
Question I had for you, boys.
Has anyone gotten liquidated yet?
Do we have a winner for the thousand Rujira?
No, not yet.
Not yet.
We need a price to go down.
Okay, guys.
Okay, if you're out there and you're listening, whether it's live or this recording,
and you are terrible at DeFi stuff, like you're just really bad at it,
defy stuff like you're just really bad at it remember don't overthink it go to rogera and do
remember, don't overthink it.
your best to make the good decision and and and the results will be the same right so do your best
so you can lose the quickest all right yeah lose it uh i i was saying that
i'll give a hundred the rugit whoever is the first liquidated, no question asked.
And once we roll out a bit more, we'll go to a bigger price, a thousand rogit for liquidation.
If you, like, we just want to make sure, like, it's not everybody just opening a very small position, get liquidated.
So we'll have to find some threshold of value.
But, yes, uh for for the first
one the question asked be the first one and with the rugi i paid for my pocket i'm very happy to
do that that's really cool that's really cool okay so um you guys had the conversation with bch
okay now is it already and i'm sorry i was a little late my freaking phone was all messed up but
is it already the case where you can have multiple of these exogenous layer ones and you can choose which one gets liquidated first
is that already a capability or is that yet to come no so that's yet to come for now um we launched
a very basic version of cdp so you can deposit one collateral type and borrow one asset against it
one collateral type and borrow one asset against it.
However, the technology under the woods
will allow you to expand that.
So for now, I'm just gonna maybe walk you through quickly
what you can do.
So you can do that, deposit one collateral,
borrow one asset as one thing.
Then once you have a loan open,
of course you can manage it, you can repay part of it,
deposit more collateral, take out more debt, repay some debts.
But you can also do something that is very interesting.
You can swap your collateral.
So let's say you open the loan with ETH.
And now you think that, well, BCH is going to outperform
ETH in the next few months.
But you don't want to close your loan having to repay your debt.
And it can be very complicated. in the next few months but you don't want to close your loan having to repay your debt and uh
yeah it's it's it can be like very complicated plus maybe you have you have done that to fund some real life expenses you don't have the money to repay the debt well you can just swap
your collateral and without closing your loan in one transaction get your is swap for bch and uh PCH and continue like that. So this is our dear, so like it's quite cool.
And in the future, once we start to expand the capabilities of the system,
so you will be able to underdo what we call the credit account.
This credit account can hold any different type of collateral.
So we will allow to have cross collateralized position so you can deposit your
ease your btc and your dot coin if you want all inside the same creator accounts each collateral
type has a collateral ratio so for now they're all like 70 percent so it means for every hundred
dollar of collateral you deposit you can borrow up to to $70 of debt token, USDC or whatever you want to borrow.
And you can adjust by summing all of the collateral types and collateral ratios that give you your adjusted collateral value.
value and you can borrow against that and you can also you will be able to borrow not just
And you can borrow against that.
one thing but several token from the same account if you want so it's very flexible
and once you have like several collateral types you can also specify which order you want for
your liquidation so if you have btc is andTH and DOGE, maybe DOGE is the one you like the most,
you don't care so much if it gets liquidated.
Well, you can say that's my first line of defense.
So if my LTV ever become at risk,
you have to sell to liquidate my DOGE first.
And after my DOGE, you can take my ETH if there is still debt that needs to be repaid.
And only as the last result, take my BTC.
And that's very cool.
Nobody has done that before.
I don't know any platforms that allows you to set your liquidation preference effectively.
So all of that is coming um question so
when you said you can swap collateral um like you take a loan and you can swap the collateral types
um can you can you do partial like let's say i have a bitcoin loan right i have my bitcoin
collateral can i do okay you know what i want to change it up a little bit. Can I put 25% into BCH?
Can I put 25% into XRP or whatever?
Or does it have to be an all or nothing swap, like all collateral?
How does that work?
So for now, in this very simple first version, we have, it's all or nothing because it's
always one collateral.
So you've got multiple collateral but eventually yes absolutely you
will have the flexibility to swap your collateral as you want once we enable like multiple collaterals
it's really up to you to say oh this i want to swap it and i want to swap x percent to the
this other token one transaction swaps on the other book,
using Torchchain liquidity via virtualization strategy in the back end
to have a minimum of debts, and boom.
And you can repeat that as many times as you want,
doing all sorts of swaps to create effectively the levered portfolio you want.
You can take the first amount of debt, buy some BTC,
put that back into your credit accounts,
and create a loop like that,
and then express your view, your trading view.
Now I want to sell a bit of my BTC for ETH.
You can do that without having to repay all these debts,
and you can really use it as a levered
trading account. So this is not possible yet, but we don't need any other smart contract
to do it. It's just a matter of parametrization of the credit accounts and a matter of just
creating the correct UI around it to make it easy for people.
Okay. And I just got a couple more questions here.
So the borrowing is based on the enshrined Oracle. Is that correct?
Yeah. So everything, or both your collateral value and your debt value
is based on the quantity of collateral or that you have time the price based on the
insurance record okay perfect and my other question is okay there's someone in the audience right now
they're listening to this um the cool thing about this feature you can take real layer one
loans out and you can also bid for liquidations of those loans which is something completely new
that was only once available to centralized exchanges or the centralized custodians of the system.
Right.
So this is cool.
So as someone who like, I've never done it before, maybe there's some people in the audience
who've never done that before.
Is this just simply a bidding system or like, how does it work?
Could you like break it down?
Is there risks to this for someone bidding?
for someone bidding? Like, could they lose money? Like, how does that work?
Like, could they lose money?
Like, how does that work?
If you are bidding, well, you cannot lose money unless the asset goes to zero. But it's
effectively, when you are bidding, you are buying a collateral at the local law already, because
if there is a liquidation is ready, it's because prices are going down more than people expected. So just that alone is quite a nice feature.
But on top of that, we're going to discount to the local law.
And that's where there is this competition system.
So the way it works is liquidation are processed via market order in the order book.
So imagine you have $100 worth of collateral, and now you have $100 worth of debt at this point.
So imagine you have a hundred dollar worth of collateral.
So $100 worth of adjusted collateral.
So actually, it's your real value.
You remember, I mentioned earlier, we have a collateral factor, 0.7% for Bitcoin, for example.
So actually, your real collateral value will be 30% a year or so.
But your adjusted value is now at $100.
So that's your adjusted LTVs 100%.
And from that point, you can get liquidated.
When you get liquidated, so there is the finding the correct path to liquidate the asset can be
quite complex and will become more and more complex as we add more collateral tap and liquidation preference.
So we allow anyone to effectively participate in liquidation,
and this is done off-chain, and they get to collect 0.5% liquidator feedback.
That's an economic incentive for any technically inclined person to run a liquidation and uh when a liquidation occur
effectively a share of your collateral so let's say your bitcoin is going to be sold
via market order on the order book uh it has to be sold so so you have like a
liquidation threshold which is when you get to 100% adjusted LTV,
and the safe level will be when you get back to 90% LTV.
So when liquidating your position, you have to bring it back between below 100% and max 90% to about liquidating more than what is effectively necessary for the position to be LTE again.
And this quantity of BTC that we thought, it's a market order on the rigid rate, order with DEX.
So when you have a sizable market order, this is going to trade a week. You know, like when you say a lot, depending on the liquidity available on the other side,
you consume your liquidity on the buy side in the order book and price goes on and on
and on.
And so what you do if you want to bid on liquidation, effectively, it's very simple.
You can do it already.
You put an Oracle order at a discount to the market price.
And when this liquidation week is going to come from this market order, the bigger it
is, the larger the week, depending on how much liquidity there is bidding.
So the deeper the discount you can catch.
And then the order is filled from the lowest discount to the highest discount.
And so it's a very fair system where effectively you end up,
most money market liquidate at a fixed 8% typically discounts.
So it means that you always pay when you get liquidated on top of getting your assets sold, you pay 8% penalty.
Here you have a market mechanism where people compete to buy your liquidity collateral. And the end result usually, and when we are live back in the day on Terra,
we are seeing typical liquidation in the 2% to 4% range.
So it costs way less for people to get liquidated.
So even if you get liquidated, you get a better outcome.
And it allows people on the other side to buy discounted assets.
And so for now, you just do that via the order book interface,
which is rate with a discounted tracking order.
Tracking order at a discount price
to the enshrined or record price.
And in the future, we are going to release
a very neat interface that will give you much more information
to construct your bidding strategy.
So you will be able to see a sort of heat map,
where you see at each price level for a given token,
what would be the likely liquidation happening.
And you will also be able to see what other bids are
in the book.
And based on that, try to strategize to see what's the optimal discount you should be bidding
and when you should be effectively taking your money out of other strategy
because it's time you feel like we are close to a big liquidation
and it's time to try to catch some of those.
And then we'll have, for example, like Otoro Roji Racks
that can be a strategy that automates that for you,
where you can say, oh, I can see on the heat map
that if BTC goes below 70k, it's going to be a lot of liquidation,
where if BTC is at 71k, take my USDC out of the landing vault and start putting bids at x% discount to Oracle price to try to catch those liquidations.
And when it's over, maybe sell my BTC I bought at the discount at a price that is higher than X, and then take the proceeds and put it back on my landing box. We'll also be able to construct all sorts of automated strategy via Auto-Rigira using
those primitive.
So very, very exciting stuff because it's really open a lot what we will be able to
And there are also a lot of other cool things that this will enable.
I can't speak about Delta and Trust strategy, but maybe I'll stop there and let you react.
I was going to kick it to JP, but that is absolutely powerful and incredible stuff, man. I love it. Go ahead, JP.
I think it's just important that we also, besides looking at what it unlocks in terms of financial opportunities,
what it unlocks in terms of financial opportunities.
It's again important that we think about why we are here
and how powerful AYC-free, KYB-free cross-chain loans are, right?
And what they mean for society.
I mean, obviously, it's always, for some, it might be just talk.
And I admit, I live in a country where I don't really
have to worry about that.
But just, yeah, I want to kick it back to PM,
because you also have the thought about it.
Just, yeah, the world really needs this.
That's just what I want to say.
It's a way, effectively, if you want to opt out of your local governments and banking system,
here, you have the option, if you see blockchain effectively as digital nation states, with
each their own promise and strength and weakness, now we have a way to navigate through those different nation states
and monetize without selling your assets. You can take your BTC or if you are more like a PCH guide
or an XRP guide, you can take your XRP. You can change your view from which universe you want to
be. If you are more BTC now, maybe now you prefer XAPI, you can swap all that, and you can borrow against that stablecoin
or other cryptoassets, but even stablecoin,
and you can finance your everyday living with that
without having to ask for permission to anyone,
without having to complete some KYC,
without having to go through a credit assessment process
where the bank is going to, where the bank is going to decide if
you yes or no, you can borrow something and at which rates.
It's all market driven, it's all permissionless and then you can take this money and spend
it in the real world.
We also later on provide tools for Upfront Big and eventually we also want to integrate with uh partners that offer uh
payment uh applications uh and we have some boca guys also i see at the call who are building like
payment rails for business to accept crypto payments so you the more we grow this the more
we'll be able to also realize this value without selling our uh cryptos because we believe in the long term those will appreciate just because the money system fiat money system is broken and still like get value today
in the form of of load so effectively longing long-term crypto and shorting the fiat system
which is ever expanding and ever inflationary and consume transform that into a consumable value today
put it to energy to into a run for for your house don't payment for for your mortgage okay
this uh yeah this is very powerful without a bank individual and i agree yeah sorry okay i'm sorry
jp i didn't mean to cut you off and i was also going
to say this also synergizes with the redacted technology well which basically makes all the
secured assets on rugira um private right so people can not only take loans but when that
gets going they can maintain privacy as well is that correct yeah absolutely and actually you correct? Yeah, absolutely. And actually, you would be able to even to take a private loan,
if you wish, doing it from your redacted accounts.
Or you can just take a loan from your public account.
And then if you want to use a phone,
you don't want people to be able to trace you back to your bank account
or just want to preserve your privacy,
you can then use redacted to send money to a different account
and from there.
And that's also, I mean, the bank will know from where the money is.
You will have still like Redacted will provide proof of innocence
to show that this money is not coming from blacklisted wallets,
biofacts or whatever.
So you can still be compliant,
but preserve your privacy because you may not want everybody to know
everything you got on chain
and being able to trust you back
to your centralized exchange and so on.
And I think that's another powerful application
that I'm just taking off is,
and we talked about this in the past,
but Bitcoin miners, right? Like whatever kind of ecosystem powerful application and i'm just taking office and we talked about this in the past but bitcoin
miners right like whatever kind of ecosystem where you receive that way you believe in the
ecosystem and you receive funds in this case obviously i think i guess we all believe in bitcoin
for doing work you don't want to sell them but you want to still be able to pay your expenses
want to still be able to pay your expenses what do you think about that guys i freaking love it
i love it what what is happening right now is truly revolutionary it's not hype right um i like
to say on these rogera spaces or live streams like tell us where we're wrong um because i don't know
right i can't figure out where we're wrong. I want someone to correct us here. You guys basically pragmatic JP, which you guys are doing, especially after talking to
the BCH guys, right? We are now building the new standard. People can think about other protocols
and how successful they are. No, no, no, no. You got to look at the first principles here, right?
You've got four chain, permissionless, no KYC access to like layer one liquidity.
And then what we build on top of that is truly extraordinary with this liquidation engine,
right? With loans, real layer ones, you can mismatch your collateral. Hello, what's going on?
And you can have privacy while you do that too, right? Because maybe you would like JP,
maybe you live, you're blessed. You live in a good country. You
don't have to worry about a tyrannical force knocking on your door when you try to just
better your own life. This is the most powerful emancipating technology ever. It is the new
standard and it's happening in real time, you guys. I'm so blown away by this. And the implications are massive.
Because just right there, not only the design of the borrowing feature itself,
but then the fact that we can add privacy on top of that.
Get out of here.
Get out of here.
Incredible stuff, you guys.
You're doing wonderful.
Thanks a lot, man.
It has been a big win.
Still a lot of stuff to refine,
but it's really getting there.
I'm super happy.
We start to really see progress.
And yeah,
so much more to come,
little by little, getting the pieces in place.
And eventually, it's all gonna click,
and it's gonna be a very, very nice piece of machinery
that people can use in all sorts of ways and hopefully help them also generate, monetize some of their crypto dealing without having to sell.
And of course, generate yields and play the crypto game as well to increase their holding over time by using those tools.
Very, very good stuff.
And that's just the beginning, really.
Yeah.
It's really just the beginning.
I'm just thinking about it.
I think there is so much to do.
And, I mean, again, I think I saw that last time.
Because there's so much to do and we have so many ideas,
it's a very special challenge to focus.
But just thinking about it, like yesterday, the day before, we were brainstorming and that's why here reimagining order types.
We have products.
How else can we package them in terms of naming and presentation, marketing, if you want to call it.
And then, yeah, there's just so many possibilities simply with an order type.
Like, for example, we were thinking about, and we'll check it out, like, does it make sense that
you can share an order that you place? Do you want to show it to your friends? Or do you want to say,
like, simply being able to say, hey, here, I placed this order. If you want to do a market sell,
I'm here to cover it and like reimagining OTC orders
and brackets. And I think this is the real power. Like you say, first principles, and we're just
figuring it out on the go, trying to understand what are the needs and just getting better at
every step of the way. First principles, first principles. That's what it's always comes down to. And you know, the first principles don't matter until they do. And what I mean by that is
just like you stated earlier, JP and pragmatic monkey, like when it comes to censorship
and instability in the world, the world is really unstable, unstable right now. Right. I think
everyone agrees with that. And the moment you have a, um, a negative event related to that instability, someone gets rugged on an exchange, someone gets unfairly liquidated, someone gets prosecuted because they didn't have privacy from a tyrannical government.
That's where Ruggiero has the ultimate marketing discovery, right?
The ultimate marketing plan right there.
Any bad thing that happens,
the first principles of both ThorChain and Rujira
and Redacted, of course,
that is where the pitch comes from.
This just wins, you guys.
In moments of stability, maybe people don't care, right?
They don't think it, but we're not in a stable situation.
So keep your eyes out, guys.
Keep your eyes out, guys.
I think we're going to have lots
of opportunities where we get to juxtapose the difference between what our Ruggiero boys are
building and what other people have built, which are not built upon firm principles. First
principles. Firm first principles, but we are. Cool stuff. Little alliteration there, tongue twister.
alliteration their tongue twister.
Hey, I think that's it guys. We let's keep it short and sweet for this week. And
yeah, looking forward for the next one and keep you updated on the progress we're gonna
make. Yes. Thank you guys. Bear with us report everything you find help us make this borrow
you find help us make this borrow lending liquidation credit accounts topic yeah the
best in class and thanks for for doing that actually and helping us improve yeah it has
been super super helpful like yeah a ton of backloads of ticket feedback i'm working through
and the guys are implementing but that's how we make everything
better and more user friendly and uh and more robust so so keep keep it coming do you think
next week we will have a live stream or just a x space you think we'll be ready to show some things
or what do you think no i i hope that next week we can do a live stream, at least to demonstrate the Omni chain.
It's just like so much happening every time.
And that's the thing also with TorChain,
because we have all those connected chains,
every time you pick something on one side,
there is often something that breaks on the other.
So it's a bit of unpredictability in the planning.
But it's getting more and more stable.
So it should be all right
uh worst case we do a live stream and even if it's not perfect we'll do another one when it's
more perfect but let's say all right sounds like a plan boys thank you guys so much great job jp
great job pragmatic monkey hans and the whole regir team hope you guys are getting excited i
am getting unbelievably excited thanks patria for being here and thank you guys are getting excited. I am getting unbelievably excited. Thanks, Patriot, for being here.
And for your...
Thank you, guys.
Bye-bye, guys.
Bye.
Bye, Patriot.
Bye, GP. Thank you.
