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Disrupting DeFi with Pendle⚡️
Recorded: July 5, 2023 Duration: 0:57:49Space Recording
Full Transcription
All right, we'll give everyone a few moments to tune in, but Tien, I think I can hear you.
Thina, do you want to say hello?
Just a mic check.
Hey, everyone.
Hello, hello.
Yes, I'm here.
Can you hear me?
Can you hear me?
We can.
We can.
And I believe we have Chandler here as well.
Can you, do you want to do a quick mic check?
Yeah.
Hello, hello.
This is Chandler from Banner's own team.
Fantastic.
We have a full house, I can see people joining in, which is great.
So we can, we'll kick off, welcome everyone to a very exciting session for today on disrupting
DeFi with Pendle and the Pendle ecosystem and our friends, of course, at Thina and at ETH
as well, I think, you know, we talk a lot about disruption, innovation in this landscape, but
very rarely do we actually see, you know, considerable leaps forward for DeFi.
And obviously with the protocols we have here today, innovating in their own ways, they really
embody that culture of innovation and disruption.
So just to kick off, I would love for each member of the panel to give a quick intro to
themselves and a quick intro on their protocol, and then we'll jump in.
Yeah, maybe I can go first.
Thanks for having me here.
I am Hien, the CEO, co-founder of Pendle.
So a quick background about me, I actually started out in crypto around 2015, but joined
the space professionally when I joined Kyber as one of the founding team members in 2017.
So I stayed on Kyber until early 2019 and left the team to explore new ideas.
So my co-founders and I, we actually started out building different ventures and had unsuccessful
attempts at building products and like between 2019 and 2020.
But we eventually found a footing in developing Pendle, started ideating the idea around fixed rate
products end of 2020.
So it's been about three years now.
I'd say like we turned three this year.
It's been a good ride.
So in short, Pendle is a protocol that tokenizes and tokenizes and enable the training of DeFi yields.
So some of the use cases that Pendle enables is for fixed rates and like for hedging purposes
and for speculators to speculate on DeFi yields.
So we started V2 end of last year, so we're live for about seven months now.
So currently we're sitting on about $130 million in TVL and effective daily trading volume recently
exceeded $2 million a day.
So I'm very excited to be part of the BNB ecosystem because we see a lot of potential for yield
trading opportunities.
I'm happy to share more in a bit.
Amazing.
Welcome to the panel and thank you for being here with us today.
We will move over to an introduction from Thina.
Welcome.
Hey everyone and thanks for having me here today.
So I'm Tseus, the co-founder and CEO of Thina.fi.
So to give you a bit of background about myself, I'm from a finance background.
I started working as a product manager for fintech startups and fell into the crypto rabbit hole.
I think it was back in 2018.
I started working as a consultant mainly for protocols on Ethereum at the time.
And I quickly decided that I wanted to launch my own venture.
So I launched first Liquid Driver governance layer on Phantom.
And in, I think it was a bit more than eight months ago with some collaborators, we decided to launch our own decks on the BNB chain.
So it's called Thina, which is basically the native liquidity layer of the BNB chain and soon to be on OPBNB as well, once they go live on mainnet.
But I'd say we're currently one of the most flexible and composable liquidity layer.
We're offering the most cost-effective solutions for protocols to scale their liquidity through our built-in incentive marketplace.
But to take a step back, so what's really unique about Thina is that we're operating on what we call the V33 model.
It's essentially a re-adaptation of the VCRV model for those who know it.
And to give you an overview, on Thina, when you provide liquidity, you're going to earn only our token, ZE.
If you want to unlock the full utility of ZE, you need to lock it from two weeks up to two years.
And the longer you lock it for, the bigger the amount of VE, ZE, that you will receive.
And essentially, VEDA represents the governance power that you hold over a weekly token emissions.
So on a weekly basis, holders can vote for pools.
And in the end, they will receive a corresponding shares of the fees generated by this pool.
So let's say you vote for BNBUSDT and you account for 50% of the total votes.
At the end of the epoch, you're going to receive 50% of the fees generated by the pool.
And on top of that, and this is where it gets interesting for protocols, they can deposit token incentives that we call bribe to incentivize holders to vote for their pool and essentially access discounted emissions.
This solution, it allows them to considerably reduce the cost and also to act as a big marketing platform where our entire user base is going to be exposed to your tokens through the votes and then through the LPs.
And now on the AMM side of things, we offer three different kinds of AMM currently.
We have the traditional constant product formula AMM, the UniV2 that most people know and are used to.
We have a stable AMM for correlated and pegged assets.
And we recently released our concentrated liquidity AMM in partnership with Algebra.
It has dynamic fees, which help us actually increase the revenue for VEDA holders.
And the liquidity that you deposit on TINA for concentrated liquidity is fully automated.
The management is fully automated through Gamma, essentially making us the most user-friendly solution for concentrated liquidity AMMs.
I'm just scratching the surface.
We have many features on the roadmap with the goal of becoming a full suit exchange, essentially.
And we're about to release our perp stacks in a private beta in the coming weeks.
Amazing.
Amazing.
Yeah.
There's no shortage of product features that you're working on.
And so that's very exciting.
And thank you for being part of the panel.
And then lastly, we have Chandler from BeEth.
If you want to say hi and give a quick intro to yourself and also BeEth for the community here today.
Okay.
Hello, everyone.
This is Chandler from Binance Earned Team.
And I'm the project manager of BeEth and WBEth.
And there is a BeEth token in Binance Exchange.
And it is one-on-one trade to ETH in Binance Exchange.
And when you stake your ETH in Binance Exchange, you're going to get one BeEth on Binance Exchange.
And when you want to withdraw the liquid-staking token to on-chain, there will be a wrapped BeEth.
And there is a special kind of BeEth.
And it's a token created by depositing BeEth into the BeEth wrapper.
And it's also interest, a reward-bearing token.
And we have the token issued on both Ethereum, Maynet, and the BSC.
And in BSC, BeEth and WBEth, they have lots of utilities in Binance Exchange.
And we're also expanding the utilities from Binance Exchange to on-chain.
And we collaborate all kinds of DeFi protocols to expand these utilities.
Also offer a lot more opportunities to get more rewards on-chain.
And currently, our staking APY is ranked very, very high in the market.
I think it's higher than the LIDL and other centralized staking services.
And we are very happy to collaborate with Athena and Pando on our project.
Thanks for joining us, Chandan.
And for those who are tuning in, I can see quite a few people joining.
Welcome, as we kick off a session, really focusing on the launch of the Pendle ecosystem on BNB Chain
and how that is essentially disrupting and innovating on the kind of DeFi ecosystem that we've seen today.
With that in mind, I will bring it back to you, Tien.
I'm kind of curious to get your thoughts on, and you alluded a bit to it just now,
but when Pendle, you know, when you're on the drawing board thinking about your multi-chain strategy,
how you thought about and why you thought about deploying on BNB Chain now,
and in terms of timing.
I think that's one thing, you know, just to kick things off.
We'd love to get your thoughts on that.
So, typically, when we evaluate a chain, we look at several aspects.
But generally, I think, just going back a little bit about Pendle, right,
we aspire to be the premier yield management tool.
And we want people, like, when they think about yield training or yield management,
they think of Pendle.
So, it is relatively certain that we will have presence on multiple ecosystems.
And the general approach to our expansion is by looking at the availability of assets on a certain chain.
So, for example, just taking a new chain for reference,
when we evaluate the chain, just given the nature of Pendle as a product,
and because Pendle is a second-order derivative,
it wouldn't make sense for Pendle to venture into a new ecosystem
when the fundamental primitives like AMM or money markets or yield aggregators are not very developed.
So, typically, this is the core basic that needs to be fulfilled before Pendle would make sense.
Now, following that, QEL is also a very important consideration
because if a chain or an ecosystem has very thin liquidity,
for example, just $10 million in liquidity,
then it also wouldn't make a lot of sense for a yield trading protocol like Pendle to exist.
So, at this point in time, other than Ethereum,
there aren't really, I think there are probably very few ecosystems
that fit the profile that I just described, right?
So, we presently have presence on Ethereum.
And then, Arbitrum was our second launch in February this year.
And, of course, we've been monitoring BNB chain for some time now.
And just given the maturity of the primitives on the BNB chain,
of course, we have a lot of respect for DINA.
And then, Venus is another protocol that has been around
and has proven track record in attracting and retaining liquidity.
We think there's a lot more that we can do here.
And just given that the number of user counts on BNB chain
is so much bigger than many other ecosystems,
I think there's a lot more that we can tap onto
with the proper education and with proper coordination
with various communities.
I think we should be able to explore new opportunities
on the BNB chain.
And with regards to the type of assets that we go about,
I think one of the more important verticals
that we are currently focusing on is the ETH LSEs.
And I think over the last couple of months,
we've been reasonably successful in associating the Pendle brand
with ETH LSE or just LSE in general.
I think the current sentiment around LSE is that
there is a growing confidence in utilizing the staking yield
from ETH as a reference rate,
something like a risk-free rate in crypto.
And this is even more so
because after Chapella earlier this year,
the ability to withdraw assets after staking it
is it increases the content level
that users have in the technology.
So from a capital efficiency standpoint,
it definitely makes a lot of sense
for assets to be deposited into all these LSE venues
and for the assets from these LSE venues
to be utilized elsewhere.
So this is definitely a vertical
that we are very focused on,
which is why when we start out
on the BNB ecosystems,
we prioritize ETH LSEs in the form of BETH,
RedBETH,
and the LP token from DINA
that consists of ETH and Frex ETH.
So we want to establish the yield market for ETH.
And over time,
with deeper liquidity,
I think we should be able to construct a yield curve
that can function as a reference rate
for users to trade yield.
Amazing.
You kind of touched on quite a few points
that we wanted to discuss,
including the emergence of the LSE ETH category
as a new, I would say, economic primitive.
So I think pretty much spot on,
which actually begs the question,
maybe more for the BETH team
and Sean for yourself,
keen to get your thoughts on
what BETH's expectations are
for this new partnership with Pendle
on BNB chain
and how, you know,
if there are any insights
or anything you want to share
in terms of campaigns
that you'll be working on with Pendle
to help strengthen that relationship.
Yeah, I think this collaboration
is definitely beneficial to our users.
You know, BSC offers a great user experience,
low entry barriers,
and provides users with more
and better opportunities
to participate in DeFi protocols.
And the Pendle is very innovative
and, you know,
give a lot of opportunities
to advance the users
who want to arbitrage the interests
and the rewards APYs.
And for the collaboration between Pendle,
we will kind of deeply
to collaborate with Pendle
and hopefully will Pendle
can have some good emissions
for users to get more extra rewards,
I think.
Okay, cool.
And what about from your side,
from Fina's side,
in terms of, you know,
what's the vision that you see
for this partnership with Pendle
on BNB chain?
I mean, so first on our side,
when we learned that Pendle
was launching on the BNB chain
because I've been an early follower
of their work,
we were very, very happy.
Like to see such innovative protocols
launching on the BNB chain,
for us,
it's exactly the kind of protocols
we're looking to work with.
They're basically bringing
well-known financial product structures,
but on-chain,
and they're leveraging
the underlying innovation
behind AMM's
free efficient price discovery,
and it fits perfectly
as a layer
on top of Thina.
Now, so,
on our side,
in terms of expectation
and benefits,
obviously,
I expect our collaboration
to bring a lot of attention
toward our LPs,
so to start with
FraxEath and ETH,
but I hope,
I sure hope
that there will be others
in the future
as we're strengthening
our collaboration,
but obviously,
it's going to put a lot of eyes
on our LP
and help us maybe
increase our TDL,
and it offers
new opportunities
for investors,
a new way to edge,
again,
yields risk
or to speculate
against the yields
or get discounted
core assets.
also,
as I said before,
more than a DEX,
I see Thina
as a big social hub
where collaborations
between our partners
drive,
in the end,
further value
toward Thina
and the ecosystem
as a whole.
And there is not,
I don't even remember
when was the last week
where I didn't put
two protocols in touch.
on our side,
we expect to fully support
the development of Pendle
on the BNB chain
by putting them in touch
with our entire network
so that they can build
their products on top,
which,
as I said,
will drive more demand
on Thina.
I think,
overall,
the relationship
is pretty straightforward
and very synergistic
in a way that
when it's beneficial
for us,
it's also going to be
beneficial for them.
And so,
on the liquidity side
of things,
because we're DEX,
we're about to kickstart
the Pendle USDT pool
on Thina.
Emissions are going to
kick in tonight
at midnight GMT.
It will be available
shortly on our UI.
we invite all Pendle holders
looking for yields
to check out
the new pool
we're about to release
because for sure
it will have
some sweet yields.
Nice,
nice.
I think there are
a few people here
in the crowd
who are probably
looking for some
of those yields
as well,
so good for them
to stay tuned.
I think the main
takeaway I'm hearing
is that obviously
BNB chain
still represents
a huge opportunity
in terms of
liquidity,
users,
and just
fundamentally adoption,
which I think
for Pendle
and for other
large protocols
that have been
deploying on BNB chain
in recent months
has been
kind of a real
growth opportunity.
But I think
fundamentally
there's a great
opportunity here
in terms of
network effects
and ecosystem
building
across Pendle,
Athena,
Beeth,
and beyond.
I think
kind of going back
to you,
Tien,
in terms of
you're building
fundamentally
an ecosystem
or a sub-ecosystem
around Pendle.
And so,
I'm keen to get your thoughts
on what this ecosystem
will look like
on BNB chain.
Are there other projects
that are kind of
essentially joining
the party
and that people
should keep an eye out
for?
Yeah,
I think for us,
we've been very fortunate
this year
to see
a relatively healthy
ecosystem play.
On our side,
the most immediate
integration
that involves Pendle
is basically
building a liquid
locker,
liquid wrapper
on top of Pendle.
just for context,
Pendle,
when it's locked
over duration
between two weeks
and a year,
user gets
VE Pendle
in exchange
and VE Pendle
has multiple utilities.
one of the utilities
of Pendle
sorry,
VE Pendle
is a function
as a vault
for incentive channeling.
Now,
because of this
particular
mechanic,
there are
three other protocols
that have
leveraged on this
feature
and established
some sort of
functionalities
for users.
among the ones
that have built
on top of Pendle
PenPy,
Equilibria,
Stakedown.
with the launch
pools,
with the launch
of Pendle
on BNB chain,
I expect
these protocols
to also have
coverage
of the tools
on BNB chain
and they
should also
have presence
on BNB chain.
we've already
had some sort
of coordination
with them
at the back end,
so it should be
relatively soon
before they turn
on the temp.
And beyond that,
I think the other
functionality
that I think
can be quite
interesting
to see
on BNB chain
is for money
markets
that support
isolated
borrowing and
lending
to list
PT as collateral.
this has already
happened for
PT-GLP
on Arbitrum
by Dolomite,
and there are
a couple of
other
protocols
that are
also
utilizing
from Pendle
as a
form of
collateral.
just for
everyone's
context,
Pendle's
source of
liquidity
is a
yield-bearing
asset like
STE,
Stargate,
USDT,
or PINA,
LP tokens.
any asset
that generates
yield should
be able to
be deposited
into Pendle,
and the
outcome of
the deposit
is basically
a principal
token and
a yield
token.
in short,
PT and
PT is
structured like
a zero
coupon bond,
and this
is where
users can
an asset
at a
discount,
a fixed
discount,
right,
and at
maturity
redeem the
underlying
one-to-one.
And then
the yield
token,
the YT,
is the
component
that accrues
yield,
and so
that means
any rewards
or payout
from the
underlying
protocol,
like LIDO
or Stargate,
gets accrued
at the
YT side.
with regards
to PT,
because it
guarantees
yield,
it allows
for a
different kind
of utility
as compared
to just
like using
a native
asset as
a collateral.
for example,
if you
were to
deficit
ETH as
collateral,
and you
borrow another
asset,
and then you
loop it,
this is a
very conventional
way of
having some
sort of
leverage
through the
use of a
money market.
Now,
if we have
an asset
that guarantees
yield as a
form of
collateral,
aside from
just having
the regular
APY that
you would
expect from
borrowing
assets and
farming it
elsewhere,
there is an
additional
component of
APY in
the form
of PT.
it makes
a lot of
sense,
actually,
for money
markets to
list PT
asset as
collateral.
And I
think this,
of course,
it's probably
not the
most intuitive
to our
community at
this point
in time,
but we
would invest
more resources
in educating
users about
the proposition
of using
PT as
collateral.
And I
think doing
that allows
us to
increase the
liquidity
deficit into
Pendle,
and at the
same time,
allows for
lenders
potentially
borrowers
to explore
different
kind of
strategies
that
utilizes
Pendle
additional
wealth
generation
avenues.
Thank you
for sharing.
I'm curious,
I think,
because we
talked about
it quite a
bit,
and it's
definitely
the dominating
narrative
and essential
to Pendle
as a whole
is the
LST,
LSD5
ecosystem.
And I'm
keen to
get all
your thoughts,
given the
different
vantage points
that you
have,
on the
most exciting
trends in
this space.
I think
many would
say what
Pendle is
building is
one of the
biggest
trends,
but maybe
keen to
get what
other
innovations
you're
looking at
or big
sources of
adoption
that you're
seeing in
LSD5
that you're
following
closely.
I'll start
with Chandler,
given the
relatively
also recent
launch of
BE from
BME,
keen to
get your
thoughts on
the trends
you're
keeping a
pulse on
in LSDs.
Okay,
I think
the trends
on the
LSD5
is very
versatile.
There are
a variety
protocols
surviving,
and we
can see
the stable
coins based
on the
LSD5
and innovating
protocols like
Pendle.
I'm very
looking forward
to the
opportunities
that we
bring to
staking
project.
We are
trying our
best to
keep our
competitive
using a
lot of
strategies.
for example,
you make
best of
the funds
utilization
and also
collaborate
with a
wide range
protocols.
And at
the same
time,
we want to
collaborate
with more
projects like
Pandle and
LSD5
projects like
Libra and
other
products.
I think
there's a ton
opportunities
out there,
but we
cannot confirm
all the
collaborations
at this
time.
Cool.
I can tell
that you
are working
on building
those network
effects and
other bigger
partnerships,
so we'll
wait for those
announcements
as they
come out.
Pina,
from your
position,
obviously,
the LSD-related
pools,
are important
on Pina,
but in
general,
what trends
are you
keeping a
close eye
On my
side,
on a
personal
level,
personally
bullish on
stable coins
that are
collateralized
by LSDs.
Obviously,
the first
that comes
to mind
right now
is CRV,
USD.
I've been
following
closely,
and I
think the
liquidation
engine is
amazing as
well.
I think
overall,
we're going
to see more
and more
stable coins,
packed by
LSDs over
time that
follow the
liquidity
model.
We've all
been looking
for our
decentralized
stable coin,
and as of
today, we
still don't
have one.
personally,
I'm keeping
an eye on
that niche.
And I would
say,
obviously,
structured
products on
top of
LSDs are
also very
interesting.
So, like,
the stripped
yields offered
by Pendle
is really
interesting.
And overall,
I really
want to see
over the
next 12
months a
deeper
integration
of LSDs
within
DeFi.
I think the
first big
step was to
scale the
liquidity so
that we
could get
to that
point because,
well,
liquidity is
the backbone
of DeFi,
and without
it, you
cannot enable
liquidation and
everything else
that comes on
top of it.
And on
our side,
Athena,
this is what
we're focused
on from the
beginning,
I would say.
I appreciate
And, yeah,
I think you're
right.
Liquidity
always is
the key
first step
and is
often a bit
of a
chicken-the-neck
problem that
we encounter
with many
DeFi
protocols to
really get
started.
So, yeah,
I think
we're
solving for
that layer
and allowing
for the
more interesting
LEGO to be
built now.
So, I
completely agree
on that.
And then, I
guess, lastly,
Tien, from
your perspective,
any teases
on what
people should
look out for
and should
be that you
can share
with us
about the
roadmap for
Pendle in
the future
and how
you're shaping
some of those
trends in
this ecosystem?
Yeah, sure.
I think
before I get
to that, I
also want to
touch on the
part that I
personally am
excited about,
LSD5.
I think
this is
touched on
a good point.
I'm personally
also very
much looking
forward to
how the
aspect could
play out.
Because I
think utilizing
LSDs to
mean stable
coin makes
a ton of
sense.
And right
now, I
think we're
still seeing
some sort
of shuffling
between the
different
protocols and
liquidity is
probably moving
from one
protocol to
another.
And in
terms of
differentiation,
I think it's
still relatively
marginal between
different products.
So to my
knowledge, at
this point in
time, there's
Libra and
then
Ropt and
upcoming ones
like maybe
Prisma,
maybe a few
others that
I am not
aware of.
I think this
represents a
it's going to
represent a
very fundamental
product vertical
within the
LSD ecosystem
simply because it
unlocks the
value that
resides within
an LSD
and allow it
to be liquid
and productive.
And I
think, I
personally think
that there's
probably going
to be some
sort of
convergence
towards an
ETF model
slash CDP.
Because the
way I look
at it, at
this point
in time,
most of
like CDP
projects,
like say
Libra and
Ropt, they
take in
maybe just
one or
two assets.
I think
now we
are also
seeing a
lot more
ETH LSDs
popping up
and each
targeting
slightly different
market segments
and offering
slightly different
niche.
And over
time, I
think just
because of
the number
of different
ETH LSDs
that exist
in the
space, it
would probably
make sense
to have
some sort
of ETF
structure
that represents
all these
different assets.
And then
using that
ETF concept
to mint
stable
point,
that to
me makes
quite a lot
of sense
as well.
So I
think there's
probably going
to be
convergence of
these ideas
further down
when the
market becomes
more efficient
and when
liquidity
starts piling
And then
to your
question
about
just
what we're
going to
be working
because
LSD is
not confined
to just
ETH and
LSD is
basically like
liquid-staking
derivatives and
there are so
many different
forms of
assets that
fit into
this
vertical.
The next
asset for
us is
actually going
to be
around
because
LSD as
well in
the form
Anchor
BNB for
example.
So we
are likely
going to
be doing
something
around that
and it
will also
involve
DINA
one way
or another.
So I
think in
the near
term,
this is
what we're
going to
be focusing
on and
just trying
to bring
more
opportunities
for yield
trading.
to the
space and
hopefully we
can kick
start another
cycle and
interest in
yield trading.
Appreciate
your
perspective,
Tiana.
I'm excited
about the
stablecoin
innovation
because I
think some
of the
headwinds
we've seen
in the last
few months
is creating
this opportunity
and I
hadn't come
across the
ETF concept
as much
in the way
that you've
articulated it
in terms of
a master
stablecoin
basket of
stablecoins.
It's
interesting to
get your
perspective
there.
And obviously
exciting to
hear more
about the
deeper
commitments
to BNB
yield trading.
I think
that's definitely
a space to
watch for
everyone here
and definitely
one I'll
possibly be
keeping an
eye on.
So I
want to give
a chance to
the community
here to ask
questions before
we close,
we probably
have about
10 minutes.
So if you
have a
question,
now is
your time.
You just
have to
request and
we will,
the host
and myself
will let
you in to
ask a
question.
Please do
keep your
questions short.
They're not
an opportunity
to shill a
project and
they do end
with a
question mark.
With that
in mind,
I can see
there is
already a
question from
Luis Fernando
which I
will bring
to Tien's
attention which
is how
does Pendle
differentiate
itself from
other
platforms that
offer similar
features or
services?
So really
what sets
Pendle apart
in terms of
innovation
usability or
user experience?
And then
we'll go to
other questions
to the
community.
I think the
most important
feature
differentiator on
Pendle is
actually the
AMN.
So with
regards to
the AMN,
the way we
design it
centers around
liquidity
provision.
So this is
actually our
second
implementation.
We had our
first implementation
back in
June 2021
which is
effectively
about two
years ago.
Now that
implementation
was our
first attempt
into coming
up with a
concept that
didn't have
any kind of
precedent.
So the
common feedback
that we've
gotten from
the community
was that the
product was
complex and
it was very
overwhelming and
it was difficult
to navigate.
So we
actually incorporated
a lot of the
learnings and
observations from
V1 into
making a much
more improved
So the
AMN itself
is basically
an outcome
of that and
I think one
of the most
significant
improvements that
we've introduced
V2 is just
the capital
efficiency of
the liquidity
provision.
So compared
to before and
I think
compared to
the other
yield trading
venues in
the space,
we are by
far the most
capital efficient.
that is a
result of
us establishing
a ban to
concentrate
liquidity for
the AMN.
And then
secondly,
the way
the AMN
is structured
allows for
YT and
PP to be
traded against
the same
pool.
So this is
also a very
different kind
of feature
compared to
other protocols.
Just using a
very typical
AMN, for
example,
let's say
in Uniswamp,
there is
in Uniswamp
V2, a
pool will
only consist
of two
assets.
So again,
for example,
it could be
like BNB
against USDC.
So these
are the two
assets that
can, only
these two
assets can
interact with
the pool.
If you have
another asset
like USDT,
then it
wouldn't be
this pool
that you're
interacting with.
Now,
with that
said, just
because of
the nature
of Pendle's
asset in
the form of
PT and
YT, and
because of
the inverse
relationship
between these
two assets,
we allow for
these two
different assets
to be traded
against the
same pool,
meaning to
say that
in the
Pendle AMN
pool, there
only needs to
exist a PT
and its
underlying.
And in the
absence of a
YT pool,
we're able
to also
enable the
trading of
So effectively,
just to
recap, the
Pendle AMN
pool consists
of only PT
and the
underlying
as assets
in a pool.
So because
of the
nature of
YT and
PT and
the inverse
relationship
between these
two assets,
the way we
structure the
AMN allows
for the
third asset,
which is the
YT, to be
traded in
the same
pool.
So this, I
think, is one
of the more
important innovations
and this
AMN sets us
apart from
the other
AMN and
makes us
unique to
our own
kind of
asset because
of the
nature of
YT and
PT traits
and how we
design the
AMN.
And I
think most
importantly,
I think
the other
major
contributing
factor to
the amount
of liquidity
that we've
amassed in
the last
six months
or so is
because we
have a
component
within the
AMN that
allows the
stacking of
yield.
Now, as
an example,
right, when
we listed
Stargate
USDT,
Stargate
itself offers
incentive
STG.
And typically
when you
deposit the
USDT into
another
UniV2
equivalent
pool, the
pool absorbs
the underlying
reward in
the form of
STG and
the depositor
loses out of
that.
But because
we are aware
of this
part, we
wanted to
design an
AMM that
negates any
kind of
opportunity cost
for liquidity
providers.
We have a
module within
our AMM to
account for the
yield from the
underlying
protocol.
That means
if you
deposit,
let's say,
again, using
STG,
Stargate
USDT as
an example,
you deposit
Stargate
USDT into
Pendle,
you are
entitled to
reward, the
lending reward
from
Stargate,
and on
top of
that,
Pendle
reward and
the SWOT
theme.
So effectively,
there are
four different
sources of
yield for
the liquidity
provider versus
maybe just
the two.
this allows
for higher
APY, and
this makes
it more
appealing for
users to
deposit liquidity
into Pendle
versus just
staking it in
both other
venues.
I think
that's a very
comprehensive
answer that
makes a lot
of things
clear for
everyone.
So I really
appreciate you
sharing that
answer.
Okay, so we
have a few
more minutes.
if anyone
has any
questions, just
raise your
hand or
request to
join, just
the way the
hosted just
now, if you
look at your
screen, and
we'll give you a
chance to ask
a question.
in the
meantime, I
will ask one
question for
the community
here.
In terms of,
you know,
obviously when
we're doing,
when we're
building in
this space,
fundamentally we
are, like, one
thing that matters
to a lot of
us is kind
of access and
usability and
income, and
you already
touched a bit
on that in
your last
answer, keen
to get the
panel's views
on what do
we think is,
what do you
think is going
to be the
next catalyst
of adoption
for a DeFi,
right?
In the past,
one might have
argued that the
macroeconomic
environment and
the realities of
the risk-free
rates in the
past made DeFi
all the more
compelling, all
the more
attractive.
Keen to get
your thoughts
on what you
think the
next big
wave of
adoption,
where will
that come
from, what
might that
look like,
if you were
to kind of
share your
views.
So I'll
start with
Tina on
your views on
what will
drive that
next wave
of adoption.
Yeah, so I
think there
are two points
to touch.
One, to
attract more
builders, and
the second, to
attract more
users.
For the
former, I
would say
that we
need more
regulatory
clarity.
Right now, we
don't really
know what's
legal and
what's not,
and operating
in crypto,
even if you
do things by
the book, the
book is not
complete, and
it's kind of
hard to know
until when
you're doing
legal things,
and at which
point you
start going
into the
gray area.
So I think
this is a big
deterrent for
Web2 companies,
companies, and
for builders to
actually spend
their time and
resources toward
building a
company around
that, because
it's a lot of
inherent risk.
I think in the
coming months, we've
seen Mika in
Europe, and we're
seeing currently
what's happening
in the U.S. as
well, but the
conclusion of this
is that at least
we'll have
regulatory clarity,
and I think that
will foster a new
wave of innovation
by bringing more
builders and
existing companies
looking to
experiment in
Web3, but
currently scared
of doing so
because of the
current regulatory
context.
On the user
side, it's
something that I
think everybody
will agree on.
It's our user
experience is
currently not
ideal.
Let me give an
example.
I think everyone
is using
Metamask.
Is everyone
happy with
Metamask?
I have never
seen one person
telling me that
they're happy with
Metamask and the
service they
provide.
So I think
whether it is
at the wallet
level or at
the protocol
level, we
still have a
lot to do
when it comes
to onboarding
users and
making it as
easy as
possible.
And then to
touch on an
earlier point,
there is also
a big need
for education.
So we're
trying to
democratize
finance.
We're trying
to make it as
inclusive as
possible and
give the
power back
to people
by allowing
them to
interact with
anyone in
the world and
to manage
their own
financial
operations.
But that
comes also
with big
responsibility,
right?
And the
thing is,
I think most
people currently
are not
equipped enough
in terms of
knowledge to
actually deeply
understand what
they're doing
when they're
interacting with
DeFi.
So I think
there is a
learning curve
that you can
ease, but you
cannot remove
And that goes
through education.
And it will
take time.
And this is
why I think
Web3 blockchain
technology and
DeFi is still
at its infancy
stage.
We still have
so much to
do to make
it more
welcoming and
to make it
more comprehensive
for new
users.
I really
appreciate that.
I think
it's a
regulatory
clarity,
usability,
and education.
I think
those are
three core
pillars that
will be
essential for
adoption.
Chad,
let's see
in any
other
catalysts or
big requirements
you see to
unlock that
next wave of
adoption beyond
what
Lena has
mentioned.
from my
perspective,
yeah,
there are a
ton of
opportunities to
improve the
user adoptions.
From my
perspective,
we need to
collaborate with
more projects
and also
give more
choices,
options to
users so
they can
choose to
do lending,
do borrowing,
do arbitrage,
and all
sorts of
things.
I think we
need to
satisfy users
requirements
in many
ways.
That's what
I thought.
greater
optionality.
And TM?
I don't
actually have
a lot to
add on
beyond what
has been
shared by
Chandler and
Thesis.
But I do
want to
touch on
the point
of the
UIUX
bit because
I do
think UIUX
is probably
one of the
most significant
deterrents
into crypto
at this
point in
time.
I think
we don't
have to
look too
far.
And of
course,
I'm not
that,
I mean,
like,
we all
have our
we all
have
probably
like
relatively
difficult
times
with
MetaMask
and then
there are
newer
solutions
like
Robby
Frame
which I
think are
offering
better user
experience
to interact
with
crypto
in general.
The other
thing that I
think is
much harder
to solve
other than
just
like using
a wallet
interface
is actually
kind of
innate to
the blockchain
itself.
So I
think my
biggest
problem
with
transactions
on crypto
is just
the need
for having
that native
asset in
the wallet
even before
a transaction
can be made.
So for
example,
if you want
to transact
on BNB
chain,
you have
to have
BNB token
in the
wallet,
regardless
of the
cost,
that is
I think
it's not
a very
pleasant
experience
because
I want
to be
able to
transact
maybe
deducting
from the
amount
that I
have in
the wallet
without
having to
care too
much
about
guest.
And I
think that
reliance
on the
guest,
I can
understand
fundamentals
of it
and I
also
understand
having
this
sort
arrangement
is so
important,
but I
think it
introduces
some sort
of friction
and that
means you
have to
find a
way to
obtain
the native
asset
first
before you
can even
consider
any other
sort of
transactions
that involves
the chain.
This is
much harder
to resolve
and I
mean,
personally,
I don't
have a
solution
and I
don't
know how
else it
can be
resolved,
but I
think it
is definitely
one of
the more
significant
problems
in my
experience
as a
user.
Agreed.
I think,
well,
across the
ball,
we're hitting
quite a few
challenges,
but I
think what
gives a
lot of
people
confidence
excitement
is that
ultimately
we're
seeing
more and
more great
developer
teams,
more and
more
talent
and great
protocols like
everyone here
on the
panel
that
together
making
difference
across
these
challenges,
right?
Like in
terms of
greater
utility,
greater
usability,
you know,
stronger
brands,
better
experiences,
fundamentally
all this
plays a
huge part
in driving
that adoption.
So with
that in
mind,
I want to
give a
final chance
to the
panel to
give any
quick closing
remarks,
maybe anything
you want to
share with
the community
and want to
keep an
eye out for
or maybe
what they
should,
you know,
if there's
any way
they should
get more
involved in
your
communities,
I think
now is a
great time
to share
that.
We'll start
with you,
Chandler,
from the
BE side.
Any final
remarks?
Yeah,
I think
WBE is a
great product,
offer a lot
of options
and user
friendly.
You can
choose,
use it
within
Binance
exchange
on-chain.
So keep
an eye
on our
developments
on this
product.
I think
you guys
are going
to like
Thank you,
Chandler.
Does it say
us, anything
you want to
share from the
thing aside?
Yeah, I would
like to thank
you again for
hosting us
today, also
for having the
BNB chain
continuously
support us.
That means
a lot.
I'm also
very glad
to collaborate
with the
Pendle team
and the
Binance Earn
team to
scale their
liquidity.
And I
hope to
see further
similar
collaborations
in the
future.
And I
invite everyone
to check
Pina.fi.
We have
among the
best yields
in the
space.
We're
audited by
a tier one
company,
OpenZeppelin.
Security is
our number
one priority.
And yeah,
feel free to
drop on our
Discord,
Telegram,
ask any
questions.
We have a
great team
of mods
who's here
to guide
you and
help you
with your
onboarding.
And I
look forward
to see
you on
our Discord
or Telegram.
And lastly,
Pendle,
Tien,
any final
remarks to
share with
the community?
Yeah.
Really,
really appreciate
the hosting
of this
session.
And I
expect us
to have
a pretty
active
month
on the
chain
in July.
So a
lot more
that we're
going to
push out.
So definitely
stay tuned.
And for
now,
the best
way to
stay in
touch is
either
Discord
or Twitter.
And basically
you can follow
our Twitter
account just
to stay
updated with
our launches.
from the
way it is
now,
I think
every way
we should
have something
to announce.
And definitely
very much
looking forward
to working
closely with
Athena and
the BE team
to grow
more yield
opportunities on
the BNB
chain.
Brilliant.
And for
everyone,
the Pendle
official switch
account is
also here as
a speaker
on the
panel,
so you
can easily
follow them
there.
Well,
that,
I would
like to
thank the
whole panel
for taking
the time
today for
this very
thoughtful
discussion on
the Pendle
ecosystem and
how all
players here
are really
innovating in
terms of
yield trading
and reshaping
the LSD
ecosystem.
It definitely
is an LSD
summer.
And I
think,
as Pendle
said,
with the
announcements
coming every
week,
I think it
will be a
very exciting
time for
LSD summer
on BNB
chain.
So do
follow or
keep up to
date with
what BE,
Thena,
and Pendle
are all
building,
because I
think there
will be a
lot of
opportunities
there for
everyone
here.
So thank
you all
again for
joining.
A very
special thank
you to
the panel.
And thank
you as
well to
Christopher
behind the
scenes for
helping run
today's
session.
Thanks,
everyone.
Thanks,
everyone.
Have a great
day.
Bye.
Cheers.
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