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Dogechain Roundtable #39 w/ Binocs
Recorded: June 9, 2023 Duration: 2:06:42Space Recording
Full Transcription
Tonmoy and Roshina, can you just check your quick mic check just to see if we can hear
you?
Hi, this is Tonmoy, good morning, good afternoon, good evening everybody, depending on where
around the world you guys are.
So, thanks.
So, thanks everyone on the founders of the Binox team.
And I'm joined by the Binox.
And I'm joined by my colleague, who's a resident tax expert and she's advising all our product
building up to be very accurate in terms of our tax understanding and accounting.
So, thanks for having us over.
So, thank you so much for having us here.
Maybe a quick round of introduction.
Thank you so much for having us here and looking forward to speaking with you and also talking
how our integration with our integration with our integration with our integration with
our integration with Doge-Chain is on Binox and how your users can also benefit from Binox.
So, thanks a lot for having us here.
Thanks for sparing your time to talk to the community, guys.
While we're waiting, let me just put on some music, just a short one.
But until Rock joins, I'm going to ping him on his telegram and he should be joining us.
Pretty soon.
Otherwise, if he's not here in a couple of minutes, we can get started right after the
song finishes.
I think taxation is one subject matter expert where it stresses people out quite a lot.
So, relaxing music is an absolutely great prelude to it.
So, yeah, I mean, by all means.
Yeah, it's a stressful subject for sure.
But I'm also interested to pick your brain a little bit about the current situation in
the markets.
But we'll talk about all of that later since you're tax experts and you are most probably
pretty into know about regulations and what happens in different countries regarding these
things.
So, it will be interesting to see your point of view of everything that's been happening
with the United States lately.
In the meantime, let me ping Rock and I'll be right back.
Let's go.
Let's go.
Let's go.
Let's go.
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let's go guys retweet the spaces and i got a lot of nfts for everybody that retweets at
the spaces right now comment below give us some hashtags uh so that we gather some more people on
on here and um let's get cracking the more you retweet i got some pretty cool uh pixel frogs
i think i have some sov punks as well to give away a huge bunch actually
Watch the ball.
Watch the ball.
Watch the ball.
Oh, oh, oh, oh.
Oh, oh, oh.
Oh, oh, oh, oh.
See the children jump off.
Oh, oh.
One by one.
Oh, oh, oh.
And his best friends.
In bed and having fun.
Oh, oh, oh.
Oh, oh, oh.
Oh, oh, oh.
Oh, oh they.
Oh, oh, oh.
I haven't found any great solutions yet.
There's some that are okay, but not for advanced stuff like anything like staking and perps and anything advanced.
It's really hard to find a solution.
So curious if you guys have something there.
Cool.
I wonder if – how do you do taxes for Perpetual, by the way?
I'm writing it.
It's capital gains or something like that?
I'm just writing it as like a trade.
So like if you put up $100 of X collateral and then you walk out with $90 of Y collateral, then it's like a trade, I guess.
And that should factor in gains and losses.
I would think it's just fine.
But I haven't double-checked that with my tax guys yet.
So they make me – they might make me change it up.
I don't know.
We'll have to see.
But I bet these guys can answer maybe.
But do we want to start by going through their product and stuff or do we want to –
I wanted first to go through one item, which is the vote, since it ended like on Sunday or on Monday, I don't remember, the governance vote,
which had the goal to remove the voting threshold for past and future governance proposals.
And, yeah, the community voted overwhelmingly for yes.
So we removed the future thresholds for the governance votes and also for the tiered burn vote, which happened before this
and was not valid until then, until the community decided that we could remove that threshold.
So this means that the tiered burn vote is in action now.
And you guys have – the community has – every DC holder, VDC holder has time until the 23rd of July to lock their tokens into the VDC model
to increase that locked circulating supply so that we can reach the higher tiers of the burn
and we can get up to the 25% burn of the unreleased token supply of the DC token.
So, yeah, the ball is in your hands now, guys.
And I know I've done my part this time around.
So it's up to you to get those percentages up so that we can get a larger burn, if that's what you want.
So, yeah, it's the first thing that I wanted to just talk shortly about.
But if you have any questions about this, we can talk about it after we present Binox and we talk with Tonmo and Roshino about their product.
And we – as I said before, before Rok came onto the spaces, I would be very interested to pick their brains since they're involved in taxes, etc.,
about all the regulative debacles that are happening in the industry right now.
So, yeah, awesome.
I know that I'll be staking more into DC, VEDC.
And I know a lot of the different contributors, core contributors, are discussing also contributing to try to help get that number up.
So I definitely will be contributing.
And I know more contributors and people with tokens and kind of like mini whales and people who will be definitely wanting to contribute.
Yeah, that's great, man.
I know I staked a bunch.
In addition, I had some flying – floating cash.
So I bought some DC and I staked it into the – in the model.
So, yeah, Binox, guys, let us let you introduce yourselves to the community and explain a little bit about your product and what you're offering, the benefits, etc.
So, yeah, you got the floor.
Yeah, thanks.
Thanks, guys.
Thanks, Rock.
And, you know, for having Binox team over.
I mean, it's a great pleasure to be a part of this community.
And so my name is Tonmoy.
I'm one of the founders of Binox.
I'm the – I have a technology and a business background.
Before this, I, you know, started another company in the non-Web 2 space – sorry, non-Web 3 space and sold it to Mercer in 2018.
And this is Binox, which is, you know, my second company.
And I've been joined by – with my colleagues, Rushina, Nandini, who take care of different aspects of our business.
And in Binox, we built a pretty robust platform.
And, you know, I've heard Rock say a couple of times that, you know, he's been getting stressed out because of computing taxes using Excel and spreadsheets out.
And especially when the trades get more complicated.
And which is precisely why we built Binox.
Today, right now, I mean, we support a pretty good coverage of all the venues.
And especially when it comes to complex trades like, you know, staking.
I wouldn't say complex, but I would say more new age, new liberating trades like, you know, DeFi protocols like, you know, on the staking side, on the lending borrowing side, on the, you know, liquidity pool side.
Or other aspects of DeFi protocols.
So, we have a pretty robust coverage for that.
So, today, we support some 200 different DeFi protocols across different, you know, trading strategies, including also derivatives.
We do support 120 different exchanges, several other changes.
And I've been very delighted and honored to support Doge Chain as well.
I mean, our endeavor has been that our global community members across the world, they should, in a hassle-free, carefree manner, should be able to invest in tokens, invest in chains, hold assets, move them across, depending on their likings, depending on their interests.
And the taxation compliance should be like a push-button away for them, which has been the constant endeavor of Binox.
We are an 11-month-old company, so a bit young.
But, you know, we have a pretty solid, strong engineering background.
My other co-founder, CTO, Pankaj, he's an engineering manager.
He was an engineering manager at Google.
So, we, you know, together built quite scalable enterprise-class systems.
And, I mean, now very ably supported by a lot of our team members.
And a couple of them are here in the call.
Rushina is our resident tax expert.
And so, she understands all different matters about taxation, especially when it comes to direct-indirect taxation on international geographies.
And, yeah, I mean, our product is right now live from a taxation standpoint for countries like U.S., U.K., South Africa, Australia.
Very soon, we are beginning to launch tax product in other countries.
But that said, the community members can already start using the product because the profit and loss computation, which is like a, which is a very, very critical precursor to compute any taxes, works well for all the countries.
So, over to you, Rushina, if you want to just make a quick intro.
Yeah.
Hi, everybody.
So, I'm Rushina.
Rushina, and I work as a product manager and subject matter expert here at Bynos.
And so, like I was mentioning, we have built a product wherein anybody in the Web3 space looking for more back-end kind of understanding in terms of accounting, in terms of taxation, calculating their profit loss.
These are the things we help users with because in this space, everybody is using multiple exchanges and chains and wallets to like perform different activities.
And things may be scattered over different places, but like we are trying to help them consolidate, track everything in one place, see all transactions in one place, see how transactions have taken place in the wallet and like make sense out of it.
And also understand what their final gains are and that too with different methods.
So, like every country has different accounting methods that they can use and we support some of them.
Like, for example, there is like first in, first out across most of the countries, but in the UK, they have a very different accounting method.
So, like depending on which country they are based out of, they can also use the product to see what kind of gains they have made during the year.
And also like Tanmay was mentioning, we do cover not just like trades and options and futures, but then there is also a DeFi.
So, that coverage is pretty strong when it comes to understanding how different protocols work.
And it's actually very challenging also because it's not very easily comparable to Web2.
Like a lot of places are still so gray where we still need more guidelines or like regulatory guidelines from governments on as to how certain things needs to be understood.
But, yeah, like so far we've been able to understand so many different protocols and have like a thorough understanding of those.
Yeah.
So, guys, I mean, this is basically a brief description about our product.
So, we'd be happy to talk more about more about it and features.
But if, let's say, you would like to discuss some aspects of the business, some, you know, frequently asked customer queries or, you know.
I personally used your product to get the data from one of my most used MetaMask wallets on Doge chain.
So, I wanted to ask you if, so, does it consolidate all of the trades on different blockchains, for example, in the same report or does it do like separate reports per blockchain, for example?
So, you know, it's a great question.
And so, the way we have built the system, it actually consolidates data across multiple blockchains.
And the reason, you know, that way we have built the system is because it gives users an additional flexibility and capability to optimize for their taxes.
And, I mean, what happens in multiple other asset classes like equity, if you buy, let's say, Apple stock from, let's say, Nasdaq and a few other exchanges, then, I mean, gain in one Apple trade can be set off against the loss in another Apple trade.
But, let's say, if you just do the computations across only one exchange singularly, then you can't sort of, you'll have to do additional exercise to offset those gains with the losses.
So, considering a consolidated statement of all the assets across chains helps users to get one level extra flexibility in order to get a full-blown tax view about their, you know, trades and transactions.
And what is the profit and loss that they're making through these trades, and how to classify them into trade income, how to classify them into the business or the regular salary-like income, and then pay appropriate taxes on it.
All right, give us – you said Rashina knows a lot about tax in general.
Give us some tax tips, guys, some simple tax tips, anything for the audience who, you know, I don't think anybody loves taxes.
You got any juice for us?
So, actually, in the U.S., like, apart from India, everywhere else, things are slightly easier.
Like, here in India, it's not even allowed to, you know, like, set off your losses or carry forward your losses.
But these things are pretty much there in the rules when it comes – I'm assuming a lot of your listeners are from the U.S.
And there it's – there one can set off your losses against your gains.
And there's also, like, there is one method of accounting, which is first in, first out.
But then there's also something called as spec ID, where you can kind of – like, that's the place where you can do a lot of calculations to see what is the best or the optimal need to pay tax on.
And, like, if you use a software like Binocs, you can see different methods there, and you can see which method suits and how you can pay, like, the least amount of tax, if I may say, using different methods.
So, these are legitimate methods that are allowed by the IRS, and that's why you can also use them.
So, we do plan to have a special tax planning, like, feature in built-in the software where you can see how that – like, how your gains look during the year and if there are any possible methods to, you know, harvest your losses and pay lesser taxes.
So, like, because the regulations are not as strict as they are in India, there are many ways to plan your taxes and lower the tax liability, absolutely.
And in addition to, you know, the dimensions that Rushin has mentioned to, you know, sort of reanalyze your taxes and see what legit and yet is the more optimal tax structure or tax payment methodology that you would like to adopt, there's yet another dimension, which is that of time.
So, you can also sort of optimize your taxes based on timelines, you can – your losses in, let's say, current year can also be harvested over – with profits over next years and so on.
So, you know, what we have built as a system and we are building also every day, every week, we are launching new features to help our users to make sure that they get the benefit of all these dimensions of understanding in a legit way, you know, what is our legit and yet our optimal tax calculation methodology that they would like to use.
So, so we are building more configurability into the system where people can select, let's say, the FIFO method or LIFO method or HIFO method is more optimal and we sort of pre-compute, you know, the taxation based on all those accounting methodologies.
And, you know, and, you know, wherever there is a bit of subjectivity where, you know, we can – we ideally by default present a conservative view, but if the users want and they understand the use cases much, much more better, they can sort of change those options around.
So, from a conservative, they can, you know, they understand their books much better, their nature of work and trades much better, then they can opt for, you know, other ways to configure their taxes and change those variables and then get to a more optimal tax calculation.
So, you know, you know, there is, you know, one short answer to your point, you know, how to deal with taxes is, you know, there's one default and yet conservative way that we present, but to more sophisticated users, we also give configurability where users can understand the use case better and therefore configure their taxes.
In a way, in a way, in a way, in a way, which is more tax friendly or more, let's say, friendly on pockets.
Does that answer your question?
Look, every time I ever listen to a podcast about taxes, every time I talk to my tax professionals, which we spend tens of thousands every year on, I maybe learn a small amount and I'm still very confused.
So, I'm sure the audience also is a bit, maybe, maybe one like simple thing for the audience is like that they could probably remember and take away from this and think about this at the end of the year is tax loss harvesting.
That's a, that's an easy one that you could do where, like, if you have losses in a year, you may want to sell the assets before the tax year ends.
And then, uh, that way you could take those as capital losses and those don't cap, unfortunately don't cancel income.
So, let's say you receive, uh, this happened to a lot of people in 2021, including myself.
Let's say you receive crypto.
Let's say you receive a million dollars of crypto or let's, let's use easy numbers.
Let's say you receive a hundred dollars of crypto for doing something in the industry.
Right.
And so, uh, that's a hundred dollars of income when you receive it.
Now, let's say that, uh, drops.
Now, let's say you're in the, we'll just use a simple, um, 50% tax bracket just for simple numbers.
So, you owe $50 on that a hundred dollars.
Um, now that was income, but now let's say that token drops by 80% and now it's only worth $20, but you owe $50 because you owe 50 on the hundred.
On the income and you, now it is capital losses, but guess what?
Those don't count against cap, uh, against income, uh, only up to $3,000, which is nothing.
But, um, so it sucks because now you still owe the $50.
So you might owe now 250% or whatever it is on, on the amount you have left, which, so you get screwed.
Um, but at least you could, if you harvest the losses by selling at the end of the year, you could rebuy back.
I think you have to wait a month or something to, or some rules like that.
But basically if you can harvest the losses or harvest them the next year or whatever, um, those capital losses, the next time you have capital gains, like in a bull run, uh, at least you still can carry those over to future years to cancel.
But unfortunately you're screwed in the short term, you got to pay the income tax, but, uh, uh, tax harvesting, tax loss harvesting is where you, you sell to kind of lock in the losses.
And then those losses now you can use on your taxes.
I think that's one simple kind of thing that people can memorize.
All of this is horrifying to me, to be honest.
I just, I, I do pay taxes, but I pay them as, uh, uh, in my country.
When you, when you, when you receive crypto, you, you pay it right away, uh, each month.
So, because they don't have any mechanisms for, uh, actually taxing you in, uh, in, in the, you know, the, the usual, uh, forms they use for, for income taxes, et cetera.
So, you, you need to declare it, sorry, playground.
I'm walking outside.
Uh, so you, uh, you need to declare what you received, uh, each month.
And they, uh, they just require you to pay, uh, like a bill.
But, uh, yeah, all of this is, uh, pretty, pretty much horrifying to me.
And I know it's kind in my country.
It sucks, but like, as you start to make money, it really sucks.
But you start to have to spend more and more and more of your time and resources on the taxes of it, especially in the United States.
I don't know about everywhere else, but it sucks, guys.
So, look, it's not the most fun topic.
Don't worry, we'll get to some more fun stuff here.
But, uh, it is an important one.
And it is one that you got to think about.
And if you don't think about it early, when you make the money, you might not have your company set up properly.
Or you might not have done the tax loss harvesting.
And then you're stuck with a huge bill later.
So, it is actually something you want to think about before you make your big money, if you haven't yet.
Um, something to think about there.
Um, but anyways, um, where can people find more about you guys?
How can they find your, your project?
No, absolutely.
So, uh, Rock, uh, Binox is available at this website.
Binox, which is B-I-N-O-C-S dot C-O or the dot co.
Uh, so we are pretty much live and, uh, we are also coming out with a mobile app version soon.
But until then, uh, you know, our website and the platform is very much accessible, uh, to our website.
I'll just make a repeat of it.
It's through Binox dot co, which is B-I-N-O-C-S dot C-O.
And, uh, I, I sort of a hundred percent agree with, uh, Rock that it is, uh, it is a tough topic.
It is a stressful one.
It's a complex one.
And, uh, basically our, our goal is to really ease as much of pain as, as much as it is possible.
And, uh, you know, our recommendation is that, uh, especially with the sharp asset price correction,
I know that people have lost several amount of money, uh, at least on papers.
And so, uh, it is a, you know, a serious, uh, opportunity right now to really think about the tax loss harvesting
so that in future when they, when the asset prices move up, uh, they're also well poised
to recover some of these losses, uh, and, uh, additional tax liabilities, uh, by, uh, booking
some losses in the current financial years, uh, so that they can, uh, uh, carry forward those
losses.
And whenever the, there is a bull run, they can offset some of those, uh, profits, uh, with
the previous year's losses.
So the tax filing, uh, tax filing and, uh, uh, uh, proper recording of, uh, your accounts,
et cetera, uh, proper planning, uh, of your trades, et cetera, is, is, is really an important
aspect.
I a hundred percent agree with that.
Roshina, you want to add something to that?
Uh, yes, absolutely.
I agree with what you just said.
And also, uh, again, loss harvesting when it comes to crypto is, uh, not very well, uh,
regulated as it is with, uh, other asset class.
So, uh, the wash sale rule, I think you're referring to that, the one month, uh, waiting
period, uh, is actually not very clearly defined.
So if say somebody wants to be a little aggressive, they can just like, uh, sell and book a loss and
immediately also purchase it at the same price.
So as to like maintain their portfolio, but also have a book loss in it.
So, uh, the, I'm sure like in, in the coming months and years, there will be more regulations
around it.
Like every government is trying to, uh, regulate it and, uh, have control over the space.
But at least as of now, uh, there are, the rules are still a little fluid and there are
ways to, um, like save on taxes in a very legal manner.
So, um, yeah, so I wanted to just add that and you're saying, you're saying you don't
so like in stocks, you, I think if you sell, you have to wait like 30 days, you can't buy
it back, but you're saying in crypto, you, you don't have to.
Yeah.
I think, I think I was told the same thing by my tax people, but I think they were saying
that it was like, there was already possibly like a law being prepared.
Like they want to, I'm sure they, they, it's like the most, uh, legit thing.
They should have it out by now, but it's still not there yet.
So, I mean, legally it's possible to.
It's interesting how different countries actually approach this.
For example, Germany, they, they, uh, they ask you to, uh, the longer that you keep, the
less you will pay, for example, the longer that you hold.
So they encourage holding on long-term on crypto assets, for example, because you pay
a lot, uh, a lot of taxes.
If you sell, uh, if you do quick profits, for example, you buy and sell, uh, uh, on, uh,
on the fly.
But if you, for example, buy Bitcoin, uh, and you keep it for X amount of years, I don't
remember exactly how long it was, whether it was two years or something like that.
Uh, the, the taxes are actually void.
So you don't have to pay anything on that.
Uh, even if you sell it in, uh, after, after the, the predetermined period.
Uh, but yeah, it depends.
It's really country dependent, big country dependent.
Uh, we have that it's called short-term and long-term capital gains.
So if you sell quickly, uh, you pay, I think it's basically your income bracket, but if
you sell, I think if you hold one year, it's basically about half of your, your regular
income bracket about if you hold for over a year.
I think, so most countries do have a concept of short-term and long-term, uh, uh, because
like every country is trying to like, at least, uh, the tax, the revenue system and countries
are always trying to promote, uh, a more long-term holding, like as an investment, as opposed to
like selling it quickly and immediately.
And there are some, um, like there are always certain things there in place to discourage
like intraday or, um, short-term kind of, uh, trading.
Yeah, exactly.
And speaking of regulations, guys, uh, how does everybody feel about everything that's been
happening in the markets, uh, in the past couple of weeks?
It's, uh, it, it's not the best of, of environments to be in at the moment.
The, the FUD in crypto is pretty high up, uh, considering that we already had some, uh, some
pretty difficult and challenging events, uh, during the, during 2022 with FTX collapsing
with the Terra Luna debacle, uh, and now, uh, the SEC suing Binance and Coinbase, uh, it's,
it's not the best, uh, of, uh, of sentiments to have in crypto.
If anyone, if anyone from the audience wants to come up, we're going to, we're going to start
bringing people from the audience up.
I see we have MGBM and we've got the Masagos.
So I think we had another person a second ago, but we'll bring those two up.
If anyone has any thoughts about the current regulatory stuff, that's some, that's the
most interesting thing to me right now.
This is the hot topic and it matters for all of us.
So if anybody has questions or thoughts about this questions, anything, we're going to bring,
start bringing some audience members up.
And if you want to, you want to chat, talk about this stuff, feel free to jump in.
I'll start with my thoughts.
Um, I think that, uh, look, it's, it's, uh, it's concerning, but I think there's some
silver linings.
Uh, I, you know, me, I'm an optimist.
I, I try to look at the bright sides of things.
And I think that one, uh, is that I said it in the last spaces, the polygon spaces, uh,
just before this, but I think that the, uh, SEC is taking off, biting off more than it
can chew, similar to Germany, uh, in world war two and Rome and Mongolia.
Like this is, uh, when you're fighting a war, you got to be careful.
You don't want to take on too many battlefronts at once.
And I think that that's what they're doing personally.
Um, I think that like, look, trying to fight Coinbase, uh, which is a very like regulatory
friendly and United States publicly traded company fighting ripple, another American
company and fighting Binance, uh, uh, international company that just has a branch in the U S.
Um, and then like, there's a bunch of others.
Um, they're trying to take on the mining industry.
They're trying to take on a ton of people, uh, the regulators and, uh, particularly the
SEC.
And I think that this might be their downfall this, like, I think you're getting a lot
of people.
They're hurting more investors than they're helping.
That's for damn sure.
And so you're going to get a lot of public like outlash against the SEC.
We've already had it.
And you have people like people don't trust the SEC right now.
I mean, uh, Elon was a really good, um, ally in that fight when he basically like said
the SEC are like garbage at their jobs, um, that they were like, uh, biased and that they
were like not helping the consumer and all this.
I don't know if you guys remember that, but Elon was pretty vocal against SEC.
They sued Elon.
And, uh, I don't remember what happened with that.
I think, did they lose?
Did that, what happened with that?
Does anyone remember?
No, I'm not, I'm not familiar.
And unfortunately, someone looked that up.
Let's find out what happened there.
But yeah, Elon was fighting the SEC before.
Um, yeah, go ahead, Ivan.
Yeah, but you're right that, uh, first of all, they are, they're taking on to too many
enemies at once.
I've lost my fair share of risk, uh, games, uh, you know, spreading my armies a little bit
too far and, uh, all over the world, uh, mostly to catch Asia.
But, uh, yeah, that's what they, they're doing.
But what's, what's most, what's most, more concerning, by the way, is, is, uh, the fact
that there, uh, Gensler is, is, is not clear about, uh, what he's doing.
He, uh, even when he went, uh, in front of Congress, was it like a month or a couple of
months ago, he had no clear answers to each, uh, to any of the senators that, uh, that grilled
him at that point.
Uh, they asked him, for example, uh, that, uh, whether he was, uh, aware that he was
actually hurting the, the, the investors in the crypto industry and that he was driving
out the innovation out of, uh, out of the U S and he just dodged these questions as if
there were nothing, although, uh, this is a multi-billion dollar industry, trillion dollar
industry now, uh, uh, uh, at the peak of, uh, of 2021, it was three, three, uh, trillion
dollars, I think the market cap of, of all quick crypto.
So it's, uh, it's concerning that this innovation America, which is one of the countries that
has always been, uh, you know, uh, uh, uh, for front runner in, in, in, in innovation, uh, the
internet, uh, for example, which brought us that web 1.0 revolution, uh, without, without, uh, the
USA in, uh, in web three, uh, I don't know what, what they're thinking because, uh, there's so
much, uh, money and there's so much jobs in this industry.
There's so much people that are invested and are actually creating products that are, uh,
beneficial to, to, to humans, decentralization, et cetera.
But apparently this, they, they don't like it.
They don't control it because there's no way to control DeFi.
And, uh, uh, unless they have their hand in, uh, in everything, they will try to shut it down.
Apparently that's what they're doing.
Uh, you know, I, I've been, uh,
uh, a hundred percent in agreement with you, Ivan and, uh, Rock.
In fact, uh, last couple of months I've been on the road, uh, in the U S, uh, attending several
institutional investor events in crypto.
Uh, and, uh, so there, you know, a lot of representatives from funds, uh, from banks, from
even regulatory bodies, uh, at the state and even at the federal level were there, uh, presenting
their thoughts and views about, uh, what is SEC doing.
And, uh, of course my information is like close to maybe a month, three, three, four weeks
old.
Uh, but, uh, I, I also see this as a silver lining.
And, uh, because, uh, I think when, uh, you know, any regulation, any, any war is waged
with an industry, uh, without logic, without rationality at the basis.
And if it is just like, you know, few powerful peoples, uh, or men, uh, vested interest or
personal hatred towards any industry, then, uh, you know, when the political tides turn around,
the, the entire campaign against them sort of fizzle out.
So it's just, uh, I would say because these allegations, because some of these, uh, moves
and, uh, lawsuits are actually, uh, just to discourage, just to create unnecessary problems.
It's not as if, you know, Coinbase has not tried to be more regulated.
They've been constantly last few years have been asking, you know, what, you know, should
we sign up with SEC, should we part of some other government governing body where they
can be regulated and so on, but they did not get any clear answer.
And then suddenly slapping, you know, lawsuits against them and similar, uh, stuff with other,
you know, larger exchanges.
So, uh, it is sort of loud and clear that, uh, these prosecutions, these, uh, lawsuits
and allegations are not grounded in rationality and it's more to sort of push the industry
behind.
Uh, so the way I look at it is, it's usually, uh, you know, makes the industry stronger and
bounce back even harder.
Uh, and, uh, the campaign, because it's not rooted in rationality, because it's not rooted
with logic, uh, gets weakened with time, uh, and, uh, you know, very soon, at least I'm
very hopeful that, uh, hopefully, you know, we should see much better, clearer regulations
and, uh, rationality to prevail.
And, uh, hopefully, uh, you know, uh, when the elections are over, uh, maybe next year,
we should have, uh, much cleaner, clearer, uh, and more supportive, uh, environment for the
industry, uh, because right now there's, because of, uh, negative economic cycles and, uh, you
know, political systems do need some villain, some like known villain that to sort of prosecute
so that they get the public, uh, um, sympathy that, hey, there was an economic downturn, but
there we identified some villains and we prosecuted them, uh, and therefore vote, vote for us.
Uh, so once these tides are over, I think, um, we should get a lot of, uh, uh, more rational
environment.
Other countries like, you know, several ones in the EU, uh, like Switzerland, uh, uh, you
know, even UK is, uh, being extremely more supportive.
Uh, and so once these countries start becoming more supportive and people see much better impact
on the industry, uh, not only in the, in the crypto crypto space, but also overall the entire
financial industry getting the more benefit out of it.
Uh, uh, I think even if the US sort of trails initially behind, we'll quickly take it over
and sort of propel the innovation as what it is known for, and then take the industry forward.
There's just my limited two cents.
Great.
Great insight.
Thank you for that.
Uh, MG BM, uh, you have your, uh, hand up for a while there.
Yeah, definitely.
Uh, I like the, obviously the conversation, obviously about the SEC and Coinbase and Binance,
and I feel that obviously as much as possible, it's like, to me, like most of the things that
things that go on are like a ruse with the news, uh, they're just trying to confuse the
mass about like, you know, jumping on.
Um, you know, I see that obviously we've gone through a bear market to me, most things just
come back to target where, um, you know, most that dare to obviously invest in the future
of the blockchain, we'll just see that, you know, it's going to grow again.
Um, it's an unstoppable train.
It, there's so many people, it's a global community.
And the unity that actually in web three is way better than web two.
And it's so far in a year that, um, I sort of come and grew what I wanted to see, um,
through NFT and stuff like that.
I've realized that, you know, there's so much more at play.
I've learned, obviously the knowledge that's about, it's like everyone's going to get rich.
That's for sure.
You know, whether it's quick and slick or whether you learn the trick to flip, um, obviously
to me, I'm a long-term investor.
I just see that, you know, look for the upgrade that's going to be made.
Small amounts counts.
Obviously over a long time, you're going to earn something that's quite fine.
And, you know, the British UK government have said like, yeah, you know, we can make London
the capital, um, Coinbase have said that they might come here.
Um, you know, it, by next year, it could completely be a different story.
Um, they want it to look gory.
They want it to look like, you know, there's, it's a scam and that, you know, everyone plans
to take money.
Um, but I'm not being funny, you know, the people are out here to help people and, you
know, whether it's people that makes it to the top or somebody, you know, that does drop
smart and stuff or the next, you know, blockchain, the ecosystems, it's all about, obviously, you
know, work the route, work the tout, see what's, you know, going to be the next thing that's
going to either pump and jump and stuff like that, or just make you a nice, decent lump.
Um, you know, we're all here on a quest, you know, seek your best where you want to invest.
I just see that this is the best time.
I've watched every line come down and just gone, wow, this is a price that I think it's
sure to be found.
You know, I saw the 21 pumps, December all time high.
I didn't buy, um, after August 21 until January this year, because I knew that it's going to
be clear that it's going to come back down and at some point a good price is going to
be found.
Work and learn the cycle, the flow of crypto, and you'll know that it will grow slow and
then we'll see the pumps in, um, 2025.
And, you know, if you can survive that long, just hold it on, which is what most people
want.
If you want to live your life, you know, no strife of trying to day trade, anything like
that, just to be paid at the end when it gets around the next bend, you know, this is what
I tell every friend, you know, just see if it makes a huge amount of profit, take a little
bit off it and then restock it when it does drop.
Bro, are you, are these all rhymes?
Um, I, indeed, I started, yeah, I started on crypto and I started, I literally developed
a flow.
Um, I went a little bit crazy about the blockchain.
I went literally so insane.
You wouldn't believe, um, if you read my emotional roadmap, the track I've managed to get back.
Um, you know, I stack crypto.
I know about, you know, you've got to buy the dip.
The whales will come along and they sing their song.
Um, just know you're where you belong with this.
It's bliss.
You know, to me, you don't want to miss the opportunity, um, for it to actually follow
the flow in a way that, you know, you can learn how to make pay any which way.
I've, I wanted to see what you could do on your phone on Rhone to earn your, you know,
each turn.
Um, and if you learn the way of what's at play, basically, you will have the right mindset
and you'll find your best bet.
Um, you know, you can jet in whichever way you want to.
Um, I decided to become an NFT artist.
Um, I'm not the smartest, you know, I'm not wanting to grow the fastest because I don't
want to pay the tax, but I'm taking this to the max.
This is an ability that, um, is developing for me organically through the NFT community
that picked me up after the crypto one.
Um, but it's been fun.
You know, I've joined discord for the record.
There's plenty to be scored.
And I've got never bored of what I'm doing.
Um, you know, I've been sky flying.
I've been trying lots of things.
I work the grinds.
I work through different minds.
And what I find is obviously mainly for web free for the NFT community.
Some of the smartest, fastest that have grown the fastest.
There's some that are unique that you should seek like Cedric Fangeet or there's Riyadh who's
a bit mad.
Um, but I'm glad obviously he's like a dad.
You know, he's managed to sell well.
Obviously on Polygon, ones that haven't gone wrong.
We've got Toggedyte Society.
He's a variety that I like to see because obviously it does lots of a charity.
We've got Skirpy, obviously the man.
I've been managed to sing that he was king before he even released Skirpy Town.
I've known that he was going to be found.
He was always around.
He was sound.
He looked after many.
And I think he's made for any of them.
All right.
All right.
All right.
Are you reading these off of something?
Are you coming up with these on you as you go or what's going on?
I can go all night long.
Seriously, I don't get wrong.
That's pretty good, man.
That's pretty good.
We would love to have you.
Give this man a follow, guys.
Everybody here in the audience.
Give some claps.
Give this man a follow.
And yeah, we'd love to have you around next time as well.
We're here every Friday, so we will welcome your rhymes next time as well if you're able
to join.
Thank you for that.
Did you use ChatTBD for that?
I've used so many times and used AI, but I've literally documented everything in my supply
from AirNFT to OpenSea, the full development of my melody.
I've just released a book if you want to look at my pinned tweet.
It's also on Kindle.
And you can see that I do mingle with the jingle.
And what I did was really rash, but I basically learned everything in a smash.
I just basically worked out of flash.
And I've done it so long, obviously, I've managed to start to be able to say what I
play around with writing each night.
And it was a fright, but it's no fight anymore.
I've managed to build a real core of what I do.
I couldn't even read this fast.
It's been a blast, obviously, for me.
It's just something fun.
And since the day that it began, it was, you know, to do the therapy, the emotional
roadmap to get me back on track and see what I could stack.
And then when I come to chat, people said, could you say what you write?
And that was a long time ago.
When I first shielded in Scurpee's space, he said, you are nice, because I just talked
about normally about my art therapy and me painting abstract art.
You know, from the start, it was to grow more smart, to get my memory back, to get me strong
again.
There's so much about the fact that I just had a complete psychotic breakdown in 21 and
suffered maladaptive daydreaming and unconditional thinking.
I was possibly the most unwell going through hell.
And if I hadn't met the people in the NFT community, I possibly wouldn't be alive today.
And this is why I continue to play, because I believe that the community helps so many
people find themselves and become better people, be inspired to be better artists.
The front cover of my book is actually made in Blender.
And I learned that since becoming an NFT artist.
I learned about therapy, psychology, more about Web3, the metaverse, and NFT, and crypto, and
everything that you want to know.
I've met online, through NFTs, artists with master's degrees.
I've met people that are psychologists.
I've met writers, actors, musicians.
This is what it's all about.
Creators all coming together, making something much more clever, going on forever.
So, these are the days of the hype.
Thank you, MGBM.
I appreciate all that and the rhymes here.
Let's go back on topic, though.
If you have anything you want to say about that, feel free to stick around.
We have, by the way, we have Rachid from Airlift, who has to stand up since a while.
By the way, we have, I don't know if you guys know, but we have a giveaway going on with the Airlift platform.
Just check it out.
I think it's pinned on our profile.
So, make sure you check that out.
Participate if you can and get a chance to win a prize.
Rachid, the floor is yours.
Thanks so much, Ivan.
So, yeah, it was a very interesting discussion and amazing rhymes, MGBM.
That is crazy.
It is really amazing.
And I followed you, by the way.
I've listened to Rob's advice.
So, yeah, basically, you know, I have two questions, to be honest.
One for, one basically anyone can take and one specifically for either Tonmoy and Roshina.
Regarding the regulations, right?
It's like, so, what do you guys know?
I've been hearing, so I'm not, I'm not an expert on, you know, on laws and taxation and regulations in general.
But, yeah, I've been following the Binox team.
I met the Binox team in one of the events a couple of months back.
But, yeah, but amazing work there, guys.
Congratulations on the beautiful product.
Now, my question is that, what do you think, you know, the effect of SEC would be on the Indian market?
That is, you know, that is number one, because since you guys are experts, and I think Roshina, since, is also pretty, you know, knowledgeable in the Indian space.
So, what do you think the effect would be over there?
Not just India, like, in general, what do you think would the effect be in other countries?
Because there are countries who have been wanting to, you know, also go the same way as the SEC.
But, but they've not been quite, like, they've been confused about it.
But now, do you think they would, they would get more, you know, they get, like, a validation from SEC, and then they follow that path?
Or do you think it would be, you know, it would still be something which, it would still be in the gray area like it is right now?
So, that's, that's actually my first question.
So, guys?
Yeah, no, so, I mean, it's a, it's a difficult one.
But, I mean, I'll just share my personal views here.
And I think the reason it's difficult one is because there are both directions in which you can think logically it could go with.
So, one obviously is, let's say, SEC is taking a very hard stance on crypto exchanges in U.S.
I mean, a lot of countries may take their cues from that and, and may start prosecuting, may start imposing fines and lawsuits against their local exchanges, because they may take those cues from the U.S.
which is at the forefront of, let's say, financial innovation and, like, technology innovations.
And if that country is posing these troubles for the exchanges, then they may think that that's the right thing to do.
But, but on the other hand, like Ivan was saying that this is a trillion dollar industry, there have been instances on the other way around as well.
I mean, we've seen, you know, governments taking two, two-sided stances on it.
So, on one hand, they've said that, you know, it is all, you know, a Ponzi scheme and money laundering activities.
But on the other hand, they've themselves launched their own CBDCs and they're evaluating their own central banking networks to shift on blockchain and the related technologies.
So, we see, you know, if we read by the actions and what Ivan said that it is, at its peak, was a 3.7 to 4 trillion dollar industry, which is much larger than so many countries' GDP today.
So, I think also what countries are looking at it is also that what United States losses other countries' gains.
And these could be large financial technology center opportunities for other countries as well.
So, I see that, you know, because depending on how different countries, you know, what sort of sentiment prevails in a stronger way,
there are going to be countries who would play much, much, much softer on the regulations and will take this as an opportunity to safe harbor these industries.
Like the way, you know, we've seen some of the Middle Eastern governments doing it.
In some other countries, they may just blindly follow the, you know, cues of the SEC and start prosecuting.
But I think it will depend on the leadership and country to country.
But definitely, it may lead to a short-term exodus of, let's say, industry, industry brains and capital from United States.
But hopefully, when, like I was mentioning, rationality will prevail, you know, it should become a core embedded part of the entire financial industry and financial technologies.
I mean, from all the events I've been to, I've seen, you know, all the large banks like Goldman Sachs, like the Citibank's, the JP Morgan's, the Moody's.
And, you know, you name any entity and they've had at least a very good, strong team internally focused on crypto.
They're building crypto infrastructure.
They're building crypto products and so on, crypto desks for their customers, wealth customers and so on.
So, I see that, you know, banks with a lot of research and power with money, they are playing, going to play a big role in the crypto space in the next wave, in the next five, seven years.
Oh, 100%.
Yeah, so, you know, at least my view is that, you know, when rationality will prevail, a lot of these, the new bull run of crypto will be much, much more stronger, much more diverse in terms of its participation.
Where a lot of large institutional investors, you know, a lot of traditional banks will also have a role to play in a stronger way.
And wherever, whichever countries were, you know, safe harboring some of these crypto technologies and assets and the human capital are to gain definitely.
So, I mean, how a specific country will play out, I think, depends on the leadership and the tides there.
But there are certainly a lot of countries which are thinking of it as an opportunity and they would like to just sort of take this as a new industry and new $100 billion industry to spring up or, you know, in those countries.
So, that's my view.
Yeah, that's some great insight, Tomoy.
I think that what the SEC is doing at this point is more fear-mongering and divide to conquer.
And it's all about control inside of protection of the investors.
Because if there was any agenda of protecting investors, there would be some much clearer regulations and they would be done in much, you know,
logically instead of just going against everybody at the same time without any explanation why or who or now what is a security.
At one point, they were saying even USDT was a security.
I mean, it's a stable coin.
How can it be a security?
I mean, that's plus other things like when you can use when you, for example, you invest in Matic and you wanted to use it to pay for gas so that your application runs correctly on the blockchain.
And so that you can onboard users.
You're not investing in Matic to make gains in the future.
You're investing in Matic because it has utility and it's the gas token and it needs to be used on that blockchain so that you can run your application.
And this is the case for Cardano and most of these that were blatantly listed as securities in the latest communique by the SEC, which shows just that it's not misunderstanding because they clearly understand the technology.
I mean, there are some smart people in there, but it's pure fear mongering and just divide to conquer.
So I hope that all of this, the community is big in crypto.
It's huge.
There are more people now than ever in crypto, despite the bear market.
Volumes are extremely high.
Even at one point, they were as high as they were during the peak of the bull market in 2021.
So people are coming in, some are leaving, but a lot of them are remaining in the space and they're discovering Web3.
They're discovering this new technology that provides them with identity ownership, their data ownership that until now, everybody, you know, big centralized companies like, you know, social media, etc.
They own your data, they sell it, they can do whatever they want with it.
And now you own your data, you can do, you are the only owner of your data and you can do whatever you want with it.
So this lack of control that they're losing the grip on the mainstream consumer is not sitting too well with them.
And that's why I think they're doing this right now because after all that happened in 2022, all the blows that were, you know, given to the industry, they might see it as weak, but we are far from it.
We're still here innovating, providing utility to users, allowing them to do whatever they want with their finances in DeFi, meme coins with Doge on Doge, on Doge chain, for example.
Doge has become one of the staples of the crypto industry, although it started as a joke.
Like, it's one of the cryptos that onboards the most people into crypto.
So, yeah, we're still here, we're still innovating and we're going to give up a fight, that's for sure.
And what they've said so far, like 10 of the top 20 projects, something like that, are securities and they haven't mentioned Doge.
And I think they would be silly to mention Doge is, to me, one of the most protected ones, I would say.
Yeah, because there was no sale, there was no pre-mine Doge is, to me, one of the very top, like most protected from securities issues.
But you know what, like at the end of the day, like screw these securities issues.
I mean, we're all sitting here going, oh, what's a security?
What's not a security? But why should a global market care?
This is a United States thing.
I mean, yes, of course we have to care because if the United States, you know, attacks it, it's, you know, they are kind of the police of the world.
But, you know, realistically, these things are global assets.
And if the U.S. wants to ban them, guess what?
The U.S. is only a small percentage of the world and there are plenty of other countries that will carry the torch.
And, I mean, you know, for those who are kind of scared right now and thinking this is like a new thing or, you know, uh-oh, maybe it's different this time.
We had stuff just like this in the previous eras.
So, like, you know, three bear markets ago when Mt. Gox collapsed, everybody, and there was the Silk Road.
When Silk Road got taken down by government, people, a lot of people thought that was the end of crypto, by the way.
And that was like kind of one of the first use cases of crypto.
To me, it's a bit of a – look, I'm a libertarian, so I lean more towards people should be able to do things, you know, like even possibly drugs that if it doesn't harm anyone else,
I think maybe we should be a little more open-minded to these things, you know, I don't think we should necessarily make all drugs legal.
But I think maybe we should not be so strict on telling people what they can do with their own bodies.
But, you know, I don't have a full decision on that one yet.
But anyways, yeah, when Silk Road was taken down, people thought that was the end of crypto.
And we went in – and then there was Mt. Gox.
And then we went into this like deep, deep crypto winter from I want to say like 2012 to 2016.
And then in 2018, I think, or end of 17, you had like BitConnect got taken down, the Texas – I don't know, some regulators in Texas sent them a letter and then they had to shut down.
And that kind of made what was most likely a Ponzi collapse.
And people like thought, oh, the government's going to get really involved now.
And then you had 2017, actually, definitely 17, you had China ban crypto.
Then they kind of let it go back up and then they banned it again.
And that's, you know, China is a big portion of the entire world and a huge market.
And Asia was a bigger market back in 2017.
Asia was a bigger market in crypto than the United States.
And I would say now, maybe still, I'm not sure, probably similar.
But we've had these things, you know, this fear of, you know, harsh regulation or banning of crypto has been around for a long time, you know, 10 years now.
So it's not that new.
There's a saying in crypto which goes, it's different this time.
You know, whether it goes down, whether it goes up, people – some people are going to say it's different this time.
It's going to moon harder.
It's going to crash harder.
But we've been there.
I've been in this industry since 2013, I think.
I got my first Bitcoin way earlier.
And I've seen everything.
I've seen the scams.
I've seen the ICOs go down.
I've seen the Ethereum fork.
I've seen the block wars.
I've seen it all.
I mean, yeah.
I've seen China ban crypto like 10 times.
I've seen Russia do the same and then unban it the next day.
India banned it.
And then they're like – someone took it to their like what's – I think their kind of Supreme Court or something.
Tanmoy, can you tell us about that actually?
What happened there?
Like India like kind of banned it.
And then they – someone challenged it in court and they got rid of it.
Yeah, in fact, there was a hallmark ruling, I think, in 2018 where, you know, one of the exchanges – in fact, the founders are friends.
The exchange –
Was that your ex?
It was a smaller exchange called Unocoin.
And so, you know, those guys were like the frontrunners in India when they set up the first – one of the first crypto exchanges in India.
And then they actually represented the industry and they fought with the government judgments or rulings with – at the Supreme Court, which is the highest court authority in India.
And they actually did win that case and that sort of reinstated the crypto industry in 2017-18 timeframe.
And then, yeah, I mean, so ever since, you know, you – the government can't sort of ban the industry.
So now, last year, they introduced taxes on crypto formally.
And while I think the taxes are – one of the changes it brought about in the industry is it gave a lot of people who were sitting at the fence a feeling that it is a legitimized asset class to invest in because there are taxes now on the asset class.
So, yeah, I mean, there was definitely a constant positive push towards, you know, people sitting at the fence now beginning to invest in crypto.
But, yeah, I mean, I think last year has been a fairly big turmoil.
We've seen sort of sharp asset price correction and frauds and failures that sort of dampened some of the confidence.
But, yeah, I mean, India has had a pretty, I would say, a push-pull sort of a thing and where eventually the industry prevailed.
And I think U.S. being a far more rational and objective and maybe innovation-friendly sort of a regime,
should we should – at least I'm very, very hopeful of that, you know, whatever we are seeing SEC doing is like a short-term thing.
And when the political leadership in the United States sort of have a more rational view of the industry, then it should change in the near future.
Yeah, so the lesson is, like, as much as it's scary at the moment, I mean, like, what is even going to happen?
They're suing Binance and Coinbase.
What do you think is going to happen?
Do you think they're going to put everyone at Coinbase in jail or do you think they're going to put everyone at Binance in jail?
No, that's not what's going to happen.
They're going to probably settle or maybe at best, maybe Coinbase, Binance, Ripple, they fight back and they win.
That's also possible.
But a lot of these things end in some kind of settlement, more or less a slap on the wrist,
like just like how J.P. Morgan gets fined multiple times every year.
Every year, J.P. Morgan gets sued by some regulatory body and they pay some fines that were less than the profit they made on their whatever they did and things move on.
So I don't know.
We'll see.
Maybe not financial advice.
Maybe it's worse than that.
Maybe criminal charges are brought.
I don't think so.
But, yeah, we've seen this before.
I'm not too worried about it.
I think there's good conversations being had.
We saw Ryan Wyatt from Polygon.
So Matic was actually named as one of the securities that was being traded on Binance and Coinbase.
I think I don't remember if it was named on both of those cases, but actually the assets that were named on one were not named the same.
It wasn't the same assets that were named on the other case, which was kind of weird.
They weren't exactly the same, even though they're trading like basically the same assets.
Like some didn't get named on one and some got named on another.
It was kind of weird.
They also like misspelled one of the founders of Polygon's names.
Kind of weird for the SEC to make that mistake.
But, yeah, I'm optimistic.
I think there's like, oh, yeah, I was saying Ryan Wyatt from Polygon Labs just testified in front of Congress on a separate thing.
Just, I think, yesterday or the day before.
And there's lobbyist groups and PACs now forming to educate our senators and congressmen.
Actually, like some of these conversations happening in Congress, some of these hearings, they're really insightful, actually.
You know, a lot of the regulators, the senators and congressmen, they don't know much about this, but they're asking good questions and they're getting really good answers from the audience, from people like they're complaining about like, oh, isn't this bad for energy usage?
But, you know, one of them mentioned that 19 out of 20 of the largest crypto projects are actually that's inaccurate.
They said 19 out of 20 are proof of stake, but Dogechain isn't.
And is Litecoin top 20?
I don't know if it is.
But so, but anyways, most of the top projects now are proof of stake.
So most of the industry has moved to, you know, being better on electricity.
But I'm going to look that up because I'm pretty sure they said 19 out of 20.
And I think that's wrong, actually.
What actually surprised me is that they were actually much more knowledgeable about cryptocurrency and blockchain.
In general, then when they grilled the TikTok guy, when it was like baby questions at that point.
But with this, the latest things I've seen from Congress, they actually did their research and they understand the technology more or less.
I mean, from politicians, what can you expect?
Yeah, they're getting better.
They're getting better at it and they're understanding it.
They're understanding, for example, that Bitcoin mining is a huge industry and that it doesn't just spend electricity just for the sake of it.
You know, that there are some models that explain that actually Bitcoin mining is beneficial to the energy industry in general.
Yeah, at minimum, it's beneficial to the grid stability.
By the way, we've had Tomasikos with his hand up for a while.
We should let him jump up in a second.
Were you done with that, Ivan, or did you want to keep going?
Yeah, yeah, sure.
What's up, Tomasikos?
Yeah, I just don't understand.
How does SEC attack Binance and Coinbase saying they're protecting customer funds or I don't know what?
Well, they did nothing when FTX crashed.
Matter of fact, FTX will launch again with the new exchange FTX 2.
How did they attack Binance and Coinbase when they did nothing when FTX lost billions of customer funds?
No, that doesn't make sense.
Yeah, it feels like, I mean, I think a lot of people are thinking that because Gary Gensler was so buddy-buddy with SVF and because they made that mistake,
I think he's now trying to overreact and show, hey, we're serious.
We're going to get everyone.
We're the strong cop on the beat.
So I think they're overreacting now for their sins.
They're trying to cleanse their sins here is what it feels like.
But yeah, I agree with you.
It's fucking bullshit.
They haven't caught any of the fucking big scams.
They're attacking the companies that seem to be the ones doing the leaf scammy.
They're attacking them.
But they missed the actual scams.
I don't know.
They are the fraud themselves and attacking crypto industry as a whole.
And they're saying that they're doing it to help the consumer.
But all of this, look at what's happened.
All of the assets prices have gone down.
How the fuck is that helping the consumer?
How are you helping the consumer by attacking the assets that they're investing in?
Assets that anybody around the globe can buy and invest in in a decentralized and fair way with their own custody, as opposed to the current like system where, you know, you have to be an accredited investor to get in on early rounds.
You have to have millions of dollars in net worth or make at least a quarter million a year, or I think it's 400,000 between a man and wife to qualify as an accredited investor.
So the rich get richer.
That is the worst law I've ever seen.
I mean, it's so it's so exemplary of how bad the current system is and how it's how crooked it is that you have to be an accredited investor to get in on these early rounds.
But in crypto, anyone can get in.
Anyone around the world can get in.
It doesn't matter who you are, you black, white, rich, poor, smart, stupid.
It's your choice.
You take your risk.
You assess the risk.
And you both bear the costs or reap the rewards.
But instead, they want to attack the, you know, this industry that is trying to cater to smaller investors and allow this to be a more global thing where if you're in Nigeria and you can't afford it or they won't give you a bank account, you could still invest in an ICO or you could buy a coin after it's on the market.
You can stake your money.
You could do a swap on a DEX, etc.
But they're trying to attack that.
Fuck these people.
And I'll go with my tinfoil explanation here is that it's about control and it's about killing the industry while it's down, taking, you know, advantage of everything that has happened to, you know, push the last needle in.
But the thing is that they're afraid of the next cycle, which is poised to be even greater than the previous one, like every previous cycle that existed.
Like we're now at $1.2 trillion or something like that in market cap for the crypto industry and we can 10x that for the next one.
And who knows how strong and high could Bitcoin go in that environment once, you know, we've all been there.
We know how it happens and it happens when you expect it the least.
But once it starts to go up, it's, you know, hashtag up only and there's no stopping it.
And people just flock in and investors flock in from all over the world, push the prices higher and the dollar is slowly losing its grip on the entire earth, actually, because everybody uses the dollar across the world.
Look, I won't say that it's completely losing its grip.
Look, it's still the most dominant currency.
Oh, yeah, for sure.
I don't think Bitcoin is, I think Bitcoin is, is, is not a danger.
It should be a solution or a danger to the dollar.
But they're not seeing it that way.
That's, that's what I'm saying.
I think that, look, I think it may not be necessarily a solution for the dollar.
It's a solution maybe to the dollar.
It's a solution to the people that have options.
You can still hold your U.S. government backed, military backed tank and, you know, fighter jet backed oil kind of petrodollar.
You can hold that if you like or and if you're comfortable with knowing that if the economy gets bad, they might ramp up inflation and print money and quantitatively ease your wealth away.
If you're OK with that, some people are.
That's why the U.S. dollar is held so much.
There are other alternatives already.
There's gold, there's other currencies, there's real estate, there's other ways to hold your assets.
People still hold dollars and bonds.
And if you want to hold those, great.
But let's give some alternatives.
I think Milton Friedman was on to something when he said that we'll never have.
I don't remember the exact quote, but it was something along the lines of we will never have a true good money in the hands of the people until until we in some sly or roundabout way.
Find a way to take money out of the power of government and put it in the hands of the private sector the way it was supposed to be.
By the way, it's in our Constitution.
The government was never supposed to control the money supply that was in our Constitution.
I don't know how they got around it.
I do know it was 1913.
If you want to read The Creature from Jekyll Island, it's a thousand page book about this.
Some conspiracy stuff in there.
There's definitely a lot of truth, but basically they found a way to get around this rule of that they could not issue the currency.
They were only supposed to issue.
The only thing they were allowed to issue was coinage, meaning they could make an official stamp of a gold coin or silver coin, etc.
that you could trust that it was the right weight of coin.
That's it.
That's it.
The right purity, the right weight.
They could mint coins.
They were not supposed to make currency.
It's in the Constitution that they're not allowed to do that.
States and private could do this, but now it's moved.
Obviously, they found a way around that by saying that the Federal Reserve is not technically a government entity,
even though the head of the Federal Reserve is appointed by the president, but it's somehow not a government entity.
They also push them.
Trump and Biden both sides push the Federal Reserve to do things that are good for the White House or for the politicians.
And part of their mandate is a proper amount of unemployment, which is like, I mean, how are they not part of the government?
Yeah, it's crazy.
It's crazy.
And let's not forget the wavering of the gold standard in the 70s as well.
Yeah, that was supposed to be temporary, by the way.
Nixon said temporarily halting the gold redemption window.
And then, of course, whenever the government says, don't worry, it's temporary, it's never temporary.
If the government, if you ever want to be sure that something is permanent, just hear the government say it's temporary.
Then, you know, for sure it's permanent.
Just like the Patriot Act.
I feel like God, I feel like I'm a conspiracy guy here today.
I'm sorry.
I'm really not.
I just have studied a lot of history.
But like the Patriot Act, they said that that would be temporary because we had this thought, this risk of terrorists.
Right.
And then what happened?
Snowden and Assange and others revealed that they were using this in ways that they did not say that they would use it.
They were using it to spy on U.S. citizens that were not suspected of terrorism.
That's all it was for was terrorism.
And then they started using it to spy on very clearly like things like drug dealing or money laundering or tax stuff.
And even like in some cases, they caught people using it to look at girls naked and stuff.
So and this was supposed to be to be anti-terrorism and it was supposed to be temporary.
And then just last year, I think, or the year before, they just renewed the Patriot Act again with there are no risks.
We have no terrorism.
There's been no terrorism in a long time.
Why are we renewing the Patriot Act so they can continue to spy on us?
And even though Snowden was basically prosecuted, this whistleblower, which is an incredible story to look into, and now is like stuck in exile in Russia, even though after he came out with this story, Congress did come out.
And they had a case not long ago, I think, I think only a few years ago, they came out and they found that he was right, that the U.S. government broke the law and overused the Patriot Act and their surveillance mechanisms.
They declared, yes, the U.S. broke the law.
They still won't let Snowden come back.
He's still considered like a, you know, enemy of the state.
And and then they renewed the Patriot Act, even though they said it was used illegally, they renewed it.
So anyway, sorry, I just got off on a total long rant there that has nothing to do with regulation of crypto.
But well, in some way, it does.
But yeah, in some way, we have like a new guy here, Tom, I think, who came up.
Do you wish to speak?
Yeah, I I I've been following DogeChain for a while.
And I'm a big fan of Polygon now and then Rock and DogeChain family.
What you guys are doing is great.
But I was in the Polygons, all rosy, the Polygon spaces.
And you guys were talking about AI and blockchain.
And there is already a project doing exactly what everybody was talking about in terms of.
Tell us about it.
It's a yeah, it's called BitTensor.
Basically, what it is.
Didn't Superman name that is, I think, his first pick when he said AI projects?
Yes, sir.
Oh, really?
I didn't hear that part.
But yeah, yeah, I sat there raising my hand for hours, like trying to scream.
And then I was in and out.
But yeah, BitTensor is basically already validated.
All roads lead to Polygon.
It's a lot harder for us to bring up community members.
We do try to do it more.
But that one we have like, I don't know, maybe 50 or 100 requests in one space.
So we can't bring everyone up.
And we have like, typically we have like 20 to 30 projects speaking.
So, you know, Polygon has had a few years ahead of DogeChain.
So it's a lot bigger.
But trust me, this community was much smaller than DogeChain at one point.
So we'll get there.
Yeah, yeah, no, I, yeah.
So, I mean, if you already named it.
Yeah.
I mean, I just wanted to bring it up just so you guys are aware of it.
But it's, yeah, essentially validating intelligence using the blockchain through incentivization
with the Tau token, already having apps built on it as we speak.
And smart contracts coming soon this year, I think.
It's interesting to see smart contracts powered by AI.
That would be very interesting to see what it comes up with.
So, yeah.
Yeah, that's all I wanted to say.
Yeah, and yeah, I love DogeChain.
I'm a huge fan.
You guys are the only project I see that's, like, seriously building and serious about,
you know, the project.
And, yeah, I just want to say that.
Appreciate that, man.
Yeah, I don't think I've seen you here before.
But I see you also have the purple two hexagon that's going around Polygon right now.
I normally have my real DogePunks NFT as my PFP.
I want to let all the real DogePunks out there know I will be putting that back.
This is just temporary.
Don't worry.
Don't, like, go out there and start selling your RDPs.
We lost our blue ticker, man.
I got myself a new one and I'll be changing.
RDPs are still my favorite project on Doge, or favorite NFT on DogeChain for now.
Me personally, I'll be changing mine on my account from two different RDPs that I actually got
earlier today that I really like.
But you'll see.
You'll see.
And, yeah, I'll be giving away the old one, you know, the one that I had.
Really?
Yeah.
Oh, wow.
That's cool.
So, you guys, we tweet and somebody will get my old RDP with the beard, with the white
beard.
You know why.
Nice.
That's got to have a little bit of a premium on it, I think.
You've hosted probably at least 10 or 20 DogeChain spaces with that.
It's your PFP, I think, right?
Yeah, exactly.
By the way, speaking of RDPs, I think Penny has an update about the RDPs to share with
us today, and he's a speaker.
So, yeah, Penny, if you can speak, go on, man.
Yeah, sure.
Thanks, man.
So, two announcements I'd like to make for RDPs.
Right now, we have a meme contest going on, and the theme of the meme contest is airdropping.
So, we're giving out a little hint there that we're going to be doing an airdrop in the
second half of this year.
It's going to be a brand new collection by the same artist of Real DogePunks, Mary.
Nice.
And more details.
Ooh, alpha.
Nice, nice, nice.
Yeah, and then we're going to be taking a snapshot of all current RDP holders, and there's going
to be lots of benefits for current and existing RDP holders.
What if you hold lots of RDPs?
What if you hold in the three figures?
Do you get three figures of rewards, or do you just get one?
Is it per wallet?
I can't really give out too many details right now at this stage, but yeah, when we have more
of an idea of how we're going to distribute them, and we have something to announce, then
we will.
And by three figures, I don't mean a hundred or more dollars, I mean a hundred or more
RDPs.
Yeah.
So, just, Penny, I don't know if you guys have seen, have taken a look at Airlift, but
for, it allows also to do like meme contests, et cetera, directly on the platform, and you
can whitelist your NFTs with them, so that you can airdrop to the participants that actually
fill out all the requirements in the contest, for example.
That's how we are doing it.
I know Jim from PooDoge did one yesterday with the token, but also, it works also for
NFTs, so you can airdrop NFTs as well, and provide rewards to people that participate in
the community, retweet, et cetera, you know, how it goes, social events, growth, et cetera.
Okay, awesome.
Now, we'll check it out.
The reason why we just decided to post the meme contest directly on Twitter is so that
we could just, we could review all the submissions on Twitter, and then also share them, and get
a little bit of traction on Twitter.
But if Airlift has the capability of somehow tracking that, and then also allowing us to
review it before either airdropping the reward or distributing it, that would be great.
But yeah, we're giving out a super rare RDP as well.
It's actually a carnival, I believe.
So, this contest is going to be hopefully a big one, and we're giving people about two
weeks in order to come up with as many memes as possible, and may the best winner win, or
the best meme, meme-ster, I should say, win.
And be crowned the meme lord.
Yeah, exactly.
Okay, guys.
Nice.
By the way, for those walkers out there, for my fellow walkers, I had to stop walking
after the last spaces because my phone was going to die, so I went in and charged a little.
I'm back out, and I'm up to now 10.2 miles today.
Are you walking again?
Yeah, I'm back out walking.
But that shows, you guys, if you just walk on these spaces, I mean, that's killer.
That's almost a half a marathon I'm walking on Polygon and Dogechain spaces.
But then I need a charger with me for my phone.
That's what I'm going to do, man.
I was thinking that because I want to hit a half marathon.
I'm at 10.2 miles.
A half marathon is like, what, 13.1?
So, next time, next Friday, that's my goal, to hit a half marathon on spaces with you guys.
So, I'm going to have to bring a battery pack with me.
Yeah, man, I'm already at 50%, and I went from, like, 80 to zero with the previous spaces,
and then I had to recharge it to 100 to hold the spaces, and now I can walk again as well.
So, maybe we got to optimize our battery during this, like, turn down something.
I just have an old phone, man.
It's the iPhone 8, so the battery sucks now.
Jeez, man, that's like, dude, that's like six, seven years old.
Yeah, probably, probably.
I got an 8 as well.
I got an 8 Plus, and I'm saving it again.
Yeah, the same.
I got the same one.
So, I'm charging, like, during the spaces, like, three times I'm charging or something.
I thought I was bad.
I got the 12 Max Pro, and, yeah, I think it's batteries.
I can only imagine six years of the battery.
You cannot complain, man.
You have a newer phone than ours.
Yeah, androids are the bomb for that, because I can get it to zero, from zero to 100, like, in 20 minutes.
Android are the best, man.
I only got iPhone because, and now it's not even sure, it's, like, still debatable,
but I only got iPhone for the security, because I've been attacked, SIM swapped multiple times,
like, and these people that are doing this to me, they're clever.
They somehow know when I'm on planes, both times, one, I was in the airport, and I wasn't paying attention,
and the other time I was on a plane when they SIM swapped me.
It only happens in L.A., man.
I guess.
They didn't get anything from me, because I'm smart, and I have really strong security.
So, if you're a hacker out there, I challenge you to try to break my security.
But, as a precaution, I did move to iPhone, because, you know, they say it's stronger security.
But now, I don't know, now I hear arguments, now that I've switched, I hear lots of arguments saying that Android is useful.
So, how can that be useful?
Like, from distance, or, like, physical?
No, they literally just, they just get someone, like, at whatever your company is, let's say you have AT&T, they call AT&T.
My friend, Dan Turpin, he, Michael, sorry, Michael Turpin, he, from Transform, manages, like, hundreds of millions of dollars,
and they actually SIM swapped him in 2000, and I think 2017 or 18, maybe 18, I think they SIM swapped him through,
I think it was maybe T-Mobile, but they SIM swapped him for, like, I think 25 million dollars.
They got into one of his exchanges. So, basically, what they do is they call the phone company.
And, by the way, you could put protections to stop this, but they don't always work.
But they called, or they got someone at the phone company that works there.
So, they either could do it through social engineering by pretending to be you and saying,
hey, I need to swap over to a new SIM card, you know, I got a new phone or a new SIM or whatever.
Or they have someone that works there, an insider, and they just do the SIM swap.
And then, with that, now they have access to your phone number, right?
So, they don't have your phone, but they have your phone number.
So, if you don't have good 2FA, like Google Authenticator or something, if you were doing, like, SMS as your 2FA,
and then you just go to the exchange and say, hey, and they will need your phone number or your password, most likely.
So, they have to, there's other parts of the hack.
But, in some cases, they don't.
They can get a reset without the password, right?
Just because they have your phone number and some of the weaker things.
But, now, people are, exchanges have upped their security a lot.
But, this was in 2018.
And so, they get it so that they just tell the exchange, hey, I lost my password.
Or, hey, here's my 2FA, send me a text.
And they have your phone number now.
So, they could respond.
And they get any text you would get, they're getting now.
So, that happened to me twice.
But, they weren't, again, they weren't able to get anything.
But, it's something to be aware of.
Yeah, you can, with some of the companies, you can tell them, hey, do not allow, you can put a note on the account.
Or, it used to be you had to put a note.
Now, you can actually, there's an actual, like, they have a checkbox that says, like, do not allow SIM card swap unless I verify my identity.
So, because they, previously, you might, it was, like, more lax.
But, you can ask them, hey, turn on, like, SIM swap protection or SIM protection or something.
I forget the name.
But, then, they have to, like, you have to send in, like, your passport or your ID or a picture of yourself.
Or, you have to go into a physical, like, you know, AT&T or T-Mobile store or whatever to prove that you're the real person.
Or, you could put in the system, only allow me to do in-person SIM swap.
I have to come in and show my ID.
So, there's protections now.
But, yeah, my friend, Michael Turpin, he got hacked for $25 million.
But, then, he won a lawsuit against him and he won $70 million.
That's crazy that you can simply go to, you know, a broker and get a SIM card or whatever just because you have a phone number.
That's insane, man.
That doesn't happen here in Europe.
I mean, you have to be in person.
You have to show your ID card, et cetera.
When you deal with your phone number, it's pretty much glad, bulletproof in that regard.
Yeah, Abracadabra.
I'm going to make a couple calls here, guys, and we should call it soon here.
Yeah, just, we only have Abracadabra has his hand up and then we can call it a day.
We'll bring Abracadabra, then I'll make a couple.
I'm going to make a couple predictions about the market and about things that are going to happen.
Go ahead, Abracadabra.
What's up, man?
Good evening, guys.
I hope you're fine.
I listen to the Polygon Spaces and this space and I have this question in my mind.
Man, you're a beast.
You listen to both?
That's like, what?
What are we at, five hours?
I listen always, every week, everywhere where I find something about Doge Channel when I see you joining in Spaces.
Aww.
Appreciate you, man.
But what I want...
And a lot of other people, too.
I see a ton of people in the audience that are on both Spaces.
I know Tomasagos was.
Who else?
Shibby, I think, was on both.
Lorenz was on both.
Yes, if you join the Spaces, then you...
Thank you so much.
Some Spaces and then you recognize them automatically.
What I want...
We're watching the audience.
We appreciate you, guys.
It's a lot easier in this one because it has less people, but when the other one gets up to hundreds or thousands,
it gets harder to see everyone, but we try.
Yeah.
What I'm curious about, the thoughts of you guys, we all know about the potential of the blockchain technology
and the smart contracts.
And why do I have this feeling some states, the U.S. and the front line, they are always against, against, against, against.
Why don't they do a task force or national research task force about cryptocurrencies or smart contracts?
Because they could have huge benefits in every possible thing.
You can think about taxes, regulations, AI controlling.
Why do someone get this feeling they are just against it instead of doing a research
and then they can turn it into their own favor?
I don't get this.
So, you can think about it different ways.
We don't know, right?
We don't know what they're thinking.
And it's not just one person and it's not a homogeneous organization.
It's lots of different people with lots of different opinions.
There's left, there's right, there's Congress, there's Senate, there's, you know,
the 50 different states have different opinions.
There's each different politician within those organizations have different opinions.
The one thing that they kind of all share in common, though, is they're the United States
and they have the world's reserve currency.
And if a lot of them are in fear, right, a lot of politicians who get their paychecks
from senior age, which is the printing of money, that's what enables them to maintain these large debts,
which is where the spending comes to pay them.
So, obviously, they have an interest in trying to stop this thing, possibly,
if they think it threatens their way of life, their income, their paycheck,
how they pay for their cars and houses and shit.
Excuse my language.
So, that's one thing.
But there are good politicians that are not just fully corrupt and thinking about their paychecks.
There's corrupt, or there's politicians who have their own money, too.
And there's, I think a lot of, I think most politicians are good, have good intentions.
Believe it or not, I think most politicians have good intentions.
I don't think they all do.
And I think a lot of them start with good intentions and then they kind of go to the dark side.
I think that does happen, too.
For example, like, this is not a politician, but if anybody remembers Roger Ver,
one of the early Bitcoin investors and builders of all companies that support cash,
I think he had good intentions.
He was in the block wars arguing about block space.
But then I think over time, his ego got to him.
His, you know, he told everyone that big blocks were the thing.
And so he just wanted to stick to what he was saying.
He was too stubborn.
I think, like, good people can do bad things if they have, like, enough reason to do so.
And I think that's what happens with politicians.
Once they're in it for a while, they start changing.
Instead of being, like, idealistic and trying to do the right thing for the country
and the thing that got them into politics in the first place,
I think a lot of them end up, like, thinking,
okay, well, I got to, you know what, I got to play the game.
I got to work with this lobbyist.
Or I got to work with this corporation because they're donating to my campaign.
How else am I going to do good things if I don't get, you know, fundraising from these guys?
So, yeah, maybe I got to do, you know, I got to crack a few eggs to make an omelet,
kind of, like, justifications or something.
But I think, generally, they have good intentions overall.
Why would they want to crush this?
There's obvious reasons, like what I just named.
But I think most politicians are smart enough to know that if they push this out of the country,
then other countries are going to benefit from this and we're going to get left behind.
And that's one of the things I wanted to say, one of my predictions, one of my calls,
my things that I think is going to happen in the market is I think the pendulum will swing.
I think we'll get a president in office at some point that will be pro-crypto.
Three out of five of the current candidates that I know of.
And four of them are the top four.
Between Trump, Biden, DeSantis and Kennedy, which are two Republicans and two Democrats.
Out of those, two of them are pro-Bitcoin.
And then there's Vivek, who's pro-Bitcoin as well.
He's a Republican nominee, a Republican candidate, I should say.
And he's pro-Bitcoin.
So, like, at some point, we're going to get more politicians in that are pro-crypto.
And I think the pendulum will swing.
People will realize this is way too big of a business to give to the other countries.
Let's keep it on American soil.
I think it'll turn around.
And I don't think it's going to be very long.
I think it's already, in a lot of ways, already turning around.
We got the Bitcoin mining, 30% tax, that electricity tax, that got shut down.
That was a great win.
We have the MICA stuff in Europe was a generally okay win for crypto.
It's better than the U.S. right now.
And you've got just a ton of countries around the world catering to Bitcoin and crypto companies.
And I think there's a lot of positives.
I know we talk about the negatives.
It's easy to get caught up in the negatives.
Cindy was studying some psychology stuff the other day.
And she was saying how, in general, people who had bad childhood experiences, they recognize negative or hostile faces, facial-like features.
And people making a bad face, just generally in public, it stands out to them more than people who had a good childhood recognizing, who recognize good faces.
They recognize that.
But the people who have the bad faces, that is a much stronger response in people because that's a threat.
So I think for us in this industry, we're really, like, focusing on the bad.
But I think there is a lot of good out there.
I see it all the time.
There's some great politicians out there really fighting for crypto.
And I think the pendulum will swing.
And I think the United States will be a leader in this industry, just like they started to be hostile towards the Internet early on.
And then they switched their tune.
And now the U.S. is the leader of the Internet.
I'm not 100% sure this is going to happen, but I think that this is what's going to happen.
That's one of my calls.
The second call I'll make is that I think in the next run, there's not financial advice.
But just for fun, just going to throw it out there.
I might be totally wrong.
I might get slapped in the face with my ignorance in the future.
But I think in the next run, I think we hit 500,000 to a million per Bitcoin.
That's not financial advice, but I think that'll happen because I think this run won't be just like individuals like the previous runs.
This will be, I think, governments will start using Bitcoin as a reserve currency.
We've already found multiple nations that are, by the way.
El Salvador is very clearly doing it.
They're raising 250 million in their Bitcoin bond.
And then you've got, there's a couple other small, very small nations.
I can't even remember the names, but that have said that they are holding Bitcoin in their reserves now.
And I think that that's how it starts.
And then I think as currencies have more issues, which no doubt they will.
There's a lot of issues.
There always have been and there will continue to be.
And it may get worse with global debt, like at 80 year, 100 year highs and no foreseeable solution.
And you have an election cycle coming up.
So they're going to have to spend to try to like grease the wheels of the economy so that they can try to get reelected.
And these things, this is like, this is, there's lots of charts that show this, this happens.
But I think they're going to try to print more money soon.
They're going to start quantitative easing again.
That'll create more inflation again.
I'm not sure.
I think that'll happen.
But either way, we will continue to see, I think, countries, companies, nations adopt crypto in the next run.
The infrastructure is now there.
It's now being prepared.
You have BlackRock just launched their crypto fund.
The largest asset manager in the world with like 11 trillion under management.
They're creating their Bitcoin.
They already created their Bitcoin fund, et cetera.
So I think the next run, we go to 500k to a million per Bitcoin.
Just for fun.
My take.
Yeah, I can agree with everything you said, so I'm not going to add anything to that.
I'm very poor with predictions.
I'm good at being frugal with investments and careful with them.
But I usually, and I don't have hindsight regret, I usually pull out early, but I also invest early.
So that's my take.
But yeah, everything you said, I think it makes sense.
I mean, you could also, like, probably the safest thing to do is scale in and scale out.
Like dollar cost average in and dollar cost average out.
So I, like, personally, again, not financial advice.
I am not a financial advisor.
I'm just a guy on the internet, which is probably not the person you should take advice from.
But I think dollar cost averaging historically, mathematically, like you could just look back at how it's performed and it performs very well.
So you could say, you know, you make a thousand dollars a week.
I think you should put at least 10 and I would say 80 percent if you can.
I know most people can't.
But put 10 to 20 percent of your income away in savings.
I'm not saying all that should be crypto.
I personally put most of my savings into crypto, but 10 to 20 percent of all your income should go into savings one way or another, whether that's gold, stocks, crypto, whatever.
But you've got to put 10 to 20 percent away.
If you don't, you're really you're making a mistake in life because it compounds so well.
If you only put it, if you only put I think it's I haven't done this math in a while, but if you put like I think it's 20 percent, 10 or 20 percent of your income away for the rest of your life and you only average 50,000 a year, which is not a lot.
Hopefully everyone here can average more than that over their lifetimes.
But if you put if you go on compound interest calculator, you can play with these numbers.
But if you put 10 or maybe 20 percent of your income away for the rest of your life, you would have by the time you were 60, I think you would have like five million.
And by the time you're 70, you would have like nine or 10 million in savings just from the compounding.
And that's just from S&P 500.
So if you just put money into S&P 500, which is which is averaged like eight and a half percent return plus one and a half percent dividends.
And that's basically just a collection of the top 500 U.S. companies.
And that that averages over like 100 years.
So if you just put 10 or 20 percent of your money, I forget the number again.
You can check on the compound interest calculator.
But if you put that away just consistently, that's all you've got to do consistently.
You're not a mega investor.
You didn't thousand X in crypto.
You're just putting away 10 percent.
Or 20 percent every every paycheck.
You can be very wealthy when you retire.
Hopefully they don't crush that with inflation now, though, how bad inflation is.
But that's that's interesting.
So I say, like, if you're going to put that amount in to invest into savings, why not put some portion of that into crypto?
I'm more risky on that, I guess.
I put 80 or 90 percent of all my income goes into crypto.
But I'm not recommending that for everyone else.
But it's a bet I'm taking.
How much did you put into crypto, you say?
80 to 90 percent of all of my income stays sits in crypto.
Maybe maybe at times 95 percent.
I'm very frugal.
I don't spend a lot of money.
I mean, you know, I'm co-founder of QuickSwap.
I'm a core contributor of Doge Chain and I'm CEO of Lunar Digital Assets.
And I still drive the Model 3 Tesla, basic Model 3.
I don't buy any fancy things.
I don't have expensive watches or cars.
At least you drive a Tesla, man.
I still buy a, I ride a Peugeot 206.
Do you know that one?
Did you say Porsche 206?
No, no, no.
That's the greatest car ever made.
It's France.
What is it?
I couldn't hear.
Peugeot.
I don't know.
Peugeot?
No, I don't know.
Is it a European?
Peugeot, Peugeot, Peugeot.
Peugeot.
Okay.
No, I don't know.
I'll send you over in the end.
I mean, look, for a long time, I drove like, even before my Model 3, that was like after,
I don't know.
By the way, to buy that, I took out a loan using MakerDAO.
Fun fact.
I meant to die to buy my Tesla, which was kind of fun, by using Ethereum as collateral.
That was like just a fun experiment back in 2019, when MakerDAO wasn't even really that
big yet.
Anyways, yeah, I think the best way to live your life is very frugal.
Live below your means.
And save as much as you humanly can.
Because the earlier you do that, and the earlier you sacrifice, the earlier you have financial
freedom, the earlier you can retire, the earlier you can tell your boss to fuck off
if they're an asshole to you.
I agree.
I agree.
You know, you have freedom.
You know, this goes for men and women.
Let's say you're with a partner that's bad to you.
You want the freedom to leave, right?
If you're, maybe you're in a country that you don't like.
Well, if you have money, you'll have a lot more likely freedom to leave that country.
If you save your money, and let's say you live with your parents, well, how do you get
out?
You better have some financial freedom.
So, that's what I like about money, is that it gives you freedom.
Yes, I like it, man.
I agree.
All right, guys.
But yeah, you have those compound interest calculators, guys.
I know everybody here is like DGENs, like, you know, in crypto, we all want to be DGENs
and make 1,000Xs.
But that's not like the best way, the safest way to get rich.
The safest way to get rich is to get rich slowly, not get rich fast.
Get rich slowly.
Just compound your money over time.
That's why most of my money is still in Bitcoin.
That's my majority of my crypto assets.
I don't fully, like, DGEN on a bunch of projects.
The only project, I hold, like, Bitcoin, Ethereum, Matic.
And then, really, the only other projects I hold are things that I'm involved in, in some
way, because I believe in them, like, you know, Quickswap and Dogechain.
But, like, I don't really buy many other tokens.
Stuff like, I do like stuff like Aave and some, like, blue chip DeFi stuff.
But not very many.
I don't go too far on the DGEN side.
I do love my RDPs, though, and a lot of my Dogechain NFTs.
But I honestly don't look at those as, like, you know, some great investment strategy.
It's like, I just am really passionate about them, and I hold them.
And I think there's a good chance they'll go up.
But, you know, that's not why I'm buying them, really.
But, anyways, that's not financial advice, once again.
I just bought some, like, two days ago.
I also hold a lot of gold, by the way.
A lot of physical gold.
Nice.
I like physical gold.
And more jewelry, right?
Jewelry.
Coins.
Coins are the best, man.
I'm wearing a gold ring right now.
But, yeah, mostly I have gold coins and silver coins buried strategically around the world.
So, if the world crumbles or something happens, I've got some stored metal.
Do you have some buried in the Netherlands?
So I can search for it?
Cool.
All right, guys.
Thank you, everybody, for attending today.
Thanks, again, to Tonmoy and Roshina for explaining everything about Binocs.
And there are some insights about regulations and about the SEC debacle that's happening
currently in the industry.
Rock, Penny, Abracadabra, Poo Doge, Patrick, Trump, Popping Doge, Temostigos, everybody
that attends, we have these.
Don't forget that we do these weekly.
And we're going to make some more general topics in the next one that we'll be posting
over the week.
So you can see whether you're interested.
It will be more something that you can participate in and, you know, prepare for discussion.
So, yeah, let's change up the format a little bit and make it fun again.
Yeah, something more clickable.
We're going to do this with the polygon spaces, too.
We're going to make it like instead of saying, you know, Doge Chain Roundtable number 39, that's
not like something that people are going to clickbait because they don't know what's
going to be talked about, right?
So instead, we're going to make these more general topics.
We do the topics on Polygon already.
The Polygon All Roads Lead to Polygon Spaces.
We do topics there, but it's still named like Polygon.
Yeah, the title needs to be the topic so that people actually click on it.
I agree.
I agree.
So, yeah, we're going to do that.
And see you next week, guys.
Thank you very much.
And I think I'm at almost, let's see, 10.2, 11.4.
After this lap, I'll be 11.4 miles.
That's almost a half marathon, guys.
I'm telling you.
Yeah.
Walking is awesome.
Anytime you're on a phone call with your boyfriend, girlfriend, mom, brother, business
calls, just walk.
Your brain works better, too, for me, at least, when I'm walking.
All right, guys.
Thanks, everyone.
See you all.
Have a good weekend.
Okay.
See you next week, guys.
Have a great weekend, guys.
Bye-bye.
Bye.
Thank you so much, everyone.
Thank you, Rishina.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
